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Never Say I Didn’t Tell You… Brad Duncan on His Brother Greg Duncan

July 12, 2010

Question to all you WWDB IBOs: Did any Diamonds like Brad Duncan ever clarify Greg Duncan’s comments from stage about money, being debt-free, and paying for things in cash? In light of the spin in Brad’s voicemail about his brother’s financial difficulties, I would say the answer is no:

How long has Greg been having financial difficulties? 2008? Why was there no mention to WWDB IBOs? How much edification of Greg was occurring during this entire time?

In the voicemail, Brad also throws another former WWDB Diamond under the bus. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! I wonder what the voicemail explaining Dean Kosage’s departure sounds like.

Update: Here’s the voicemail regarding Dean’s “termination” from WWDB.

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176 Comments leave one →
  1. July 12, 2010 8:44 am

    They aren’t growing that big I don’t think. How can you be a multi millionaire, but still be in bankruptcy? To me, I don’t think you can still refer to him as a millionaire if he’s in bankruptcy. He doesn’t have a million dollars.

    This is a frocking voice mail? Who the hell needs to have voice mail account this day and age?

    Thank God! The TRUTH about Jimmy Harstead finally revealed! So was he dealing with loan sharks?

    It’s pretty revealing when people are encouraged to focus on eagle & double eagle instead of actually being profitable.

    Wolgamott & Kosage leave, and Brad slams Greg and Jimmy Halstead. Can you say ripping apart at the seams?

    Of course, those people didn’t “build the business properly like me”.

    That’s what they said about Bo Short.

    What a joke. Even when you hit the pinnacle, it’s not enough. Amway continues to rot away in North America.

    The biggest lie is when he says he’s got no reason to lie. He certainly does! If people see WWDB for what it is, Brad might have to go back to work!

    In spite of what he says, there are better things out there, and it’s NOT better than it’s ever been.

    The corporation is only growing because of foreign growth. North America is in the toilet.

    Private jets? The most in the world? So what? How does that help anyone?

    Proof that self serving asshats still thrive in Amway!

  2. July 12, 2010 9:11 am

    Good comment. Regarding voicemail, I’m assuming this was a KATE/Amvox message sent downline. Good thing someone recorded it and produced that lovely video. Liked the Pinocchio graphics whenever Brad exaggerated the truth. Then again, he could have put Pinocchio across the entire video and I wouldn’t have complained.

  3. ken permalink
    July 12, 2010 11:15 am

    This was a Kate to me and is about a year old. My wife and I were platinum in the business for about 4 years of our 10 years in WWDB. I gave up everything for the business and missed out on a large chunk of my life. I was as SOLD out as you could be putting everything that didnt line up with the vision of diamond aside including my wife.
    I believe Im finally deprogrammed and able to really look at my experience with clarity. I dont blame current IBO’s for being so defensive as this is like an unscratched lotto ticket that they believe will all of their heart will one day rub off to reveal the winning numbers, but that day will never ever come.
    As long as you listen to Kate and CD’s everyday the smoke screen remains in place and every word your upline tells you feels true. It wasn’t until I started missing functions, CD’s and Kate messages that I started to question…or as they put it “lose my dream”. What a crock.

  4. Joecool permalink
    July 12, 2010 11:32 am

    Can anyone spell hypocrite? Greg Duncan used to say “stupid comes to mind” when he spoke of anyone being dumb enough to get a loan from the bank, with all the interest and all. Well, stupid comes to mind even more so when someone has a million dollar income and goes bankrupt. What I find hard to believe is how IBOs believe that the bankruptcy isn’t real.

    It looks like WWDB is fractured. Hopefully they will implode amongst themselves. LOL

  5. July 14, 2010 9:23 am

    As far as it being Amvox or Kate, why not just create an audio file and email it to the group?

    Oh, right.

    No $$$$$ to be made from that I guess.

    What a joke.

  6. Steve permalink
    August 8, 2010 8:24 pm

    If you ever get close to Brad, he is not the happy-go-lucky funny guy you see on stage.

    In truth, he is a very angry man and there are reasons for that. Listen closely to this recording and you’ll hear classic passive-aggressive behavior. This is nothing new with him and it is very sad.

    The armor has really come off what I believe was once an organization of integrity. The leaders are now just trying to hang on – not to have it implode while they’re still around and in need of the cash.

    Very sad.

  7. honesttalk permalink
    August 14, 2010 7:42 am

    Around 2006 Ron Puryear put out a challenge over the Kate vmail system to every leader at the Executive Diamond level and below …

    Puryear said “leaders, show everyone it can be done … go double eagle with new people on the side of your current business”. This challenge was specifically for: Ruby’s, Emeralds, Diamonds, and Executive Diamonds

    Everyone in WWDB, regardless of business size, heard this challenge and it was discussed by leadership for all to hear at major functions.

    The likes of Dave Shores told everyone he was working though a list of 400 contacts and giving advise on how to show the “webtour” to new people … he was on his way to meet the challenge!!!

    The challenge was a great plan by Ron Puryear as it would show all WWDB members that this is a matter of work habit and nothing more, but one small issue …

    Guess how many of the leaders could meet the challenge? If you guess ZERO, you’re right.

    We heard nothing more about the challenge nor was it ever discussed as a lessons learned, they just pretended it never happened.

    All this to say, it helped me see the WWDB leadership was lost and was so focused on getting us to buy tools because they don’t know what they’re doing anymore.

    That was 2006, it’s only feel through the floor for them from there.

  8. aurora permalink
    December 20, 2010 12:27 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  9. aurora permalink
    December 20, 2010 12:32 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  10. December 20, 2010 1:06 pm

    If Greg Duncan were ever to leave the business, couldn’t Dave S. inherit Greg’s downline and go Double Diamond?

    In my group, the leaders said the same thing, how they would be going out to show the plan and go double, triple, etc. Diamond. None of them did it. Over on the MonaVie-front, ex-Amway Diamond Brig Hart is saying on-stage that his system will create 2000 new Diamonds in the next year. Yeah, right. Good luck on that.

  11. Joecool permalink
    December 20, 2010 2:20 pm

    That my big beef, in particular with WWDB diamonds. They have never been held accountable for anything.

  12. aurora permalink
    December 21, 2010 8:01 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  13. Ken permalink
    December 21, 2010 10:22 am

    @aurora I couldn’t agree with you more. My wife and I were in WWDB for 10 years and everything got neglected chasing the “dream”. We gave up friends that weren’t going in the same direction (and thought less of them for having bbq’s, jobs and fun), family that talked negative, vacations and our own business. We were the biggest of the bootlickers. ALL we did was live, breath and eat the business. Everything, and I mean everything took a back seat to the business. Every night we were out prospecting or showing the plan. 10 @#$%$% years!! I cant imagine how farther along we would be, the relationships that would still be in place. We made it to platinum status and then became like little gods and had people licking our boots, sticking microphones in our faces as if we had something grand to say. JOKE. We have been out of the business for about 3 years now and I still get worked up about how fooled we were.

  14. aurora permalink
    December 22, 2010 4:56 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  15. The cult permalink
    December 28, 2010 2:17 am

    you should try asking about Paul Tsika , he is a very bad guy who use’s faith to lord over you . He is a complete hypocrite and has bed other pastor daughters OMG what does that say about WWDB for covering this up or worse allow paul to talk about marriage ?

  16. The cult permalink
    December 28, 2010 2:24 am

    I used to think greg duncan was one of the few who was not into the cult like behavior I saw in WWDb , but he suddenly became just like them . I watched him not stand up for diamonds that where so upset with how wwdb was being run that they left wwdb. Greg would always tell them ” you are right wwdb is off track but I need more of you to get big enough on management team to make a change ” but that was all a lie … he let them all stand up on management team and take a stand and he would let them get hammered… then I hear he does not even call them after they have left … he seems to be all about the money… and will not take a stand for anyone.

    But brad is even worse ! he mocks anyone who does not listen or follow him , Dean said recently he had fallen into that trap . makes sense he grew up learning from brad , and dean is telling folks he is having to d program from leading in that same style for so long. At least we see some of our heros leaving wwdb and trying to get their feet back on the ground … we should be happy about that because this all helps to give wwdb the hit they need to change.

  17. Ken permalink
    December 29, 2010 8:45 am

    @The Cult how do you know this about Paul Tsika? Don’t get me wrong it wouldn’t surprise me. My wife and I had a personal meeting with him at a go diamond and he came across as so arrogant. Of course at the time we chalked it up as hard love and just part of the process as rising leaders in the business. Looking back I really don’t think he cared that much. Just doing his job as the man representing god for wwdb.

  18. The cult permalink
    January 12, 2011 5:16 am

    @ ken oh that one is simple about paul tsika, I heard it from some IBO’s at first then by accident I attended a church in california where the current pastor there found out I knew Paul Tsika.
    I was talking about how Dean had opened m eyes to the cult like nature of wwdb years ago when i got out. I am very thankful to dean for this btw.

    The pastor then told me how he used to live with Paul as a child because he was friends with pauls children and how controlling and manipulative he was.

    Then he talked about how the ran Paul Tsika out of the state one night because he had committed adultery with another pastors daughter that he was counselling!!!

    He told me it was more then one time with many of the young girls and some of the fathers where coming after him at night to hurt him. So paul fled in the middle of the night , and since then has tried to rebuild his following but was such a outcast as the word spread about him he was forced to work with MLM companies !

    This guy is horrible and there is a group of women who just contacted me who want to blog about him so get ready he is the next hot topic… plus using faith and GOD to get people to stay in amway is horrible!

  19. happy girl permalink
    January 12, 2011 5:22 am

    OH GOOD , I just had my friend call me and tell me people are finally talking about Paul Tsika online and what a scum he is. Since the whistle was blown on him last year he has written a book and admits he had a ” moral failure ” code for slept with pastors daughters and drugging them.

    It is about time people expose this man. He has cost many women their marriages.
    what a perfect fun thing to hear as I get ready for work. I will pass it own to my girl friends that the time is finally here.

  20. Joecool permalink
    January 12, 2011 9:16 am

    Back on topic. Where is Dean’s “fruit”? Thecult made a claim of him helping hundreds of thousands and I call bull on that claim.

  21. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 1:57 am

    Back on topic ? We where on topic when was this blog about dean? I personally thought dean was a very kind guy who was always there to offer help to anyone despite their pin level.

    We are talking about Paul Tsika who I found to be very controlling and someone who cheated on his wife with pastors daughters.

    Thank you Cult for helping to blow the whistle on Paul.
    I also wanted to say I find your posting to be very funny as you keep people on point and you do not allow them to make racist comments.

    I admire that because when you are upset it is easy to make those type of comments. We all do it sometimes , however they are wrong and just our own anger shining through. I like the fact you seem to want to give people the chance to change. You also remind us to not jump to false assumptions as to peoples intentions.

  22. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:01 am

    Ken
    My story of meeting with Paul Tsika sounds like yours :) We walked away feeling he was a hired hand for wwdb not a pastor.

  23. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:06 am

    Brad Duncan has lost all his big legs by trying to control their lives. He thinks all of the women need to be like his wife. She seems very nice , I do not know how she deals with him.
    Brad has blown out his dads leg who sold it to him, Brad w leg , Deans leg , 5 emerald legs.
    It does not seem that brad knows how to share the spotlight.

  24. cult permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:09 am

    happy girl thank you for the kind words !
    I am glad to hear the word is getting out about Paul Tsika and him sleeping around.

    I have seen him work as a strong arm for wwdb and it is just sad. Tell your friends to blog about Paul as well lets help save some folks from him!

  25. cult permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:13 am

    @joe
    seriously now you want this blog to be about dean? You are appearing to be a ambulance chaser looking to up your blog ratings.
    Why do you not stick to the topic of this blog and brad duncan?
    happy girl makes a point brad has lost a ton of his bigger pins due to blowing them out.

  26. aurora permalink
    January 13, 2011 5:37 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  27. Tony permalink
    January 13, 2011 9:01 am

    @Aurora… nice call!! I’ve also noticed that The Cult is outing Paul Tsika on this blog yet chastising us on Dean’s blog.

    Happy Girl and The Cult’s motto: “Do as I say, not as I do.”

  28. Ken permalink
    January 13, 2011 9:20 am

    I have a feeling the cult and happy girl are the same person. They (or he/she is) are making accusations with zero proof. Honestly this is a tactic used to discredit this entire thread. They could have even been hired by Greg for reputation management. If a person can take this thread in another direction and start talking about some crazy accusations then we all look stupid which will undermine the entire conversation. Just my thoughts. If there is any proof to Tsika’s infidelity and the “ran him out of town” then why does he have a giant ranch in the same town called restoration ranch that is for helping married couples. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen but put up or shut up.

  29. Joecool permalink
    January 13, 2011 11:15 am

    Let’s reiterate then. Greg Duncan was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy and there are public documents to prove it. It also showed that Greg lied about buying homes in cash and he used to say people who took out loans were stupid.

    Greg took out loans – therefore?

  30. aurora permalink
    January 13, 2011 11:34 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  31. happy girl permalink
    January 14, 2011 2:34 pm

    Ken , you can read Paul Tsika book yourself if you would like. I am not defending Greg Duncan on this post or brad duncan. Yes I am for sue trying to now expose Paul Tsika. I thought that was why this blog existed. Do you think that talking about Paul is somehow now helping Greg? It would do the opposite because Greg use’s Paul all the time. All I knew about Brad and Greg was them telling us to use Paul for marriage advice. Knowing what I now know about Paul from my own ears from my local pastor I am upset that WWDB was not transparent about what Paul Tiska did.

    I did not deal with Greg duncan so I cannot talk about him. I have no idea about his money situations.

    Why would you now accuse me of something , if anyone on these post appears to be the same person it would be the same 3 folks who where blogging for months.

    My husband and I are not happy with how we where asked to get marriage advice from this guy.

    Paul was run out of california not texas ken.

  32. happy girl permalink
    January 14, 2011 2:37 pm

    We are only upset because of the lack of transparency, about Paul if he has turned his live around ok. Now even paul is coming out with it in his new book !

  33. aurora permalink
    January 15, 2011 5:48 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  34. January 15, 2011 10:46 am

    I’ve posted a new blog post where I look into the identities of The Cult and Happy Girl. Are they simply different faces of Dean Kosage himself?

    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/01/15/the-cult-happy-girl-and-susan-miller-dean-kosage-you-decide/

  35. Joecool permalink
    January 16, 2011 7:15 pm

    Has there been anymore news on Duncan’s bankruptcy?

  36. January 16, 2011 8:10 pm

    Haven’t heard anything.

  37. aurora permalink
    January 17, 2011 4:26 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  38. aurora permalink
    January 17, 2011 4:32 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  39. Joecool permalink
    January 24, 2011 11:14 am

    I’d like to hear an explanation of how a triple diamond could go bankrupt. I also wonder whether Greg was at “Dream Night” this year showing off pictures of mansions and cars and telling downline to “get it done” so they can also have those luxuries.

  40. aurora permalink
    January 25, 2011 3:06 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  41. Joecool permalink
    January 26, 2011 9:32 am

    Amazing, but the hard core IBOs do deny the bankruptcy, even when there are public documents to confirm it.

  42. aurora permalink
    February 18, 2011 3:42 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  43. joeb permalink
    February 18, 2011 9:45 pm

    Hey I see that you have so much anger against the system because of how it has affected your life, but some of the basic principals in those books still hold. What I mean is your letting all this anger affect you, instead of just ignoring the topic all together. Now other than whoever you write too, the only person that this anger and blogging hurts is you. As is told in church, you have free will, so choose not to talk about it. Not to think about it, and focus on what you can change. Your future. If you are, then great! That means if you stop blogging here, and let go of all the anger, then you won’t have anything holding you back. This technically applies to everyone here, so I hope you get the point. State your belief and be done with it. Savvy? YOU CAN MOVE ON! If you could get so high as a pin in this business, then why not use that same ethic in whatever you do now? Being positive is still an agreed upon fact to having a better life, so I hope you take this advice.

  44. shaun permalink
    February 18, 2011 10:21 pm

    hey I guess anything good on these post will be deleted as they already have. tsk tsk. aurora you should question this site regulators. Earlier I wrote a clear,logical truthful comment on how to help you, yet he deletes it. That’s sad. Because as I will repeat, you should quit writing on these blogs as it only keeps that anger in your heart. Just stop thinking or writing about it and move on with your life. As god gave you free will, it is your choice, just like quitting whatever businesses you were in. You have stated your belief and its easy to understand, so don’t keep building your anger. Let it go.

  45. shaun permalink
    February 18, 2011 10:24 pm

    This applie sto everyone here with a negative purpose for being here(which means talking negative about anything here weather it be about their past or not). unless you are also doing something to help change things for a better, this is just unproductive and holds you back from whatever you are doing in your current life. That’s why I’m writing this, cause there’s no other reason for this site to exist then, unless someone gives more links to more information and everyone who writes something claiming negativity gives sources at least once. The sit isn’t even checked by m caffe yet. So I hope you all make great decisions.

  46. February 18, 2011 10:25 pm

    Shaun and Joeb (both coming from the same IP address): Your comment about anger against the system was not deleted, it was sent to moderation.

  47. aurora permalink
    February 19, 2011 4:05 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  48. Amdroid permalink
    February 19, 2011 6:29 am

    Yeah, it’s obvious when all these posts come just minutes apart and say almost exactly the same thing… “hey, stop posting on this site (because it’s killing Dean’s cause) and be a better human being!”

    I wonder if they are posting from Encinitas, CA again. I’ll put my money on it being The Cult that can’t stay away from the site.

  49. aurora permalink
    February 19, 2011 7:44 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  50. team deception permalink
    February 19, 2011 9:41 am

    I wonder if Shaunjoeb got permission from his upline to say those things? As we all know the “minions” or “bottom of the pyramid” cannot say or do anything that is not pre-approved by their upline. He must not have listened to CD about blind obedience to the “life coach” enough times. How hilarious is it that grown men and women worship these life coaches? They will do whatever the life coach says no matter what the cost and then sit back and make fun of people that have normal money paying 9-5 jobs like they are the ones in captivity. “Dream big” as long as its what your life coach wants you to dream about. These guys dont see that they are ones in 24/7 captivity to their uplines and life coaches!!!

  51. February 19, 2011 10:33 am

    I think The Cult/Dean has turned into a lurker on the site. Either that, or he’s moved to Hawaii, where the IP addresses are originating from.

  52. shaun permalink
    February 23, 2011 2:33 am

    first off, i think stating where my address is from may violate some laws per state as far as privacy is concerned.

    Second, I never have been to California or was ever in dean’s group.

    third, only right after i had posted as shaun did my post( that was in moderation) get posted after waiting. and i reloaded the page just in case to check right before i posted as shaun.

    fifth,yes my up line said I could and trust my own judgment, as I make my own decisions anyway.

    fourth, you ignored what i said and just manipulated and twisted my words. I was not defending them(and whatever cult in cali your talking about). I said stop blogging and do something else better with your time that is productive. That’s plain English. You understand it. You just don’t want to agree with inerrant logic.

    To put it even more simply(not that it is necessary as your all intelligent) blogging about anything in a negative way(ranting,flaming,etc) does not have any benefit. It is BAD. So if it is bad, then you should stop. simple. So if you just want to disrespect me when I’m telling you the truth, then that is your decision as of now. But don’t lie and twist what I said. that will just show how lame you are.

  53. Amdroid permalink
    February 23, 2011 4:27 am

    FYI – It violates no state laws to post what IP address you’re at, it’s a public IP anyways. But that not what Amthrax did. And merely saying the state you live in is even less illegal. Heck, I wouldn’t even classify that as being morally wrong.

    Thanks for your insight, but we’ll happily blog about what we want, beneficial to you in your opinion or not. However, I have a feeling these blogs do benefit many, just not those that are in any shady MLM and their “system”. Happy trails!

  54. team deception permalink
    February 23, 2011 5:41 am

    Shaunjoeb said: “fifth,yes my up line said I could and trust my own judgment, as I make my own decisions anyway”.

    Wait a minute. Your asked your upline and they said you could and then you made your own decision? Priceless!!

    That is AWESOME!!!! My upline said I could!! I cannot stop laughing right now. You made my day. What else did you ask for permission to do from your life coaches?

    Shaunjoeb to upline, “how many sheets of toilet paper may I use?”

    Upline, “great question shaunjoeb, and of course I have the best answer since I am a great leader and life coach while you cannot do anything outside of my help…. fire up!!!! My answer is ……. 2 squares unless it was a white knuckler and then I will allow you to use 4 squares.”

    Does that sound about right shaunjoeb?

    You make your own decisions after your upline tells you what your decision will be just like when you asked them if you could post on here. Your awesome, I hope you keep posting on this sight and don’t run away from here like all the other TEAM/Monavie slappy’s do.

  55. Amdroid permalink
    February 23, 2011 5:44 am

    Ohhhhh, SNAP!!!

  56. team deception permalink
    February 23, 2011 7:01 am

    Shaunjoeb, did you put your fourth argument after the fifth argument for any particular reason? Is there supposed to be an emphasis added to point the fourth point? Again, this is great and please keep up the good work.

    Maybe, you could invite your upline to participate with us on this blog? I’m sure they will since they are just sitting around in their PJ’s working from home living the American dream (isn‘t that the promise that‘s given if you follow the system). I would love to get some wisdom from some of the greatest leaders of our present day.

  57. aurora permalink
    February 23, 2011 7:20 am

    Will an ambot explain Brad Duncan’s video talking about Greg Duncan’s 3rd bankruptcy?

    Anyone. Any ambot?

  58. right permalink
    February 25, 2011 4:38 am

    wow looks like u guys cant listen to anyone unless they completely agree with you.lol then u twist it to make yourselves seem like you have the upper hand. Hilarious.

  59. aurora permalink
    February 25, 2011 8:20 am

    Is anyone surprised Brad’s video will not be discussed by IBOs?

  60. Amdroid permalink
    February 25, 2011 11:44 am

    Looks like “right”‘s post is being moderated, but he says:
    “wow looks like u guys cant listen to anyone unless they completely agree with you.lol then u twist it to make yourselves seem like you have the upper hand. Hilarious.”

    I’d like to respond to that now vs waiting for it to make the blog.

    What’s hilarious is that you don’t think we do have the upper hand. Most, if not all, of us have been in the forest and were blinded by the trees of MLMs and their “systems” at one point. Once we were out and got older and wiser, we are able to evaluate what we were in and how things worked, or should I say didn’t work.

    Strip is all down and what they preach and promise you isn’t true for the masses, it’s that simple. It’s just a way for them to make $ from the dreams of people that mostly don’t have the skill sets, time or $ do the same as they are all taught to duplicate. The theory is nice and that’s what sells it, but where the rubber meets the road, 99% of all IBOs end up failing and a 99% failure rate isn’t anything to praise about, even if you are part of the 1%.

  61. Jimbo permalink
    March 3, 2011 1:03 pm

    I totally understand where some of you guys are coming from, spending blood, sweat and tears for numerous years and not getting to where you wanted to be, and then being mad for being “fooled” for so long.

    Not any different in anything else. I was a baseball prospect chasing dreams for a long time that got dashed the same manner, except I got hurt. I gave up a lotta things chasing that dream as well. I had a lotta friends that got drafted in high rounds in different sports who’s careers ended abruptly as well without reaching their ultimate dreams.

    You just gotta learn how to deal with it. No different in this business.

  62. right permalink
    March 5, 2011 2:22 am

    can i ask how u know of the tools scam and a reliable source for it please? This site would be so much better if it required sources for facts stated. Noone seems to put much links

  63. aurora permalink
    March 5, 2011 4:12 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  64. Amdroid permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:40 am

    Tools scam? Here’s my experience, but I’m sure my experience will be dismissed by those still in the business. Our upline Emerald’s secretary accidentally put in their purchase order of Standing Order tapes for product pick up. Our upline Emerald was paying like $2 or $3 per tape and selling them to downline (us) for the standard $6 a tape. That’s $3 – $4 profit per tape.

    Have 100 standing order in your business and that’s $300 – $400 per WEEK and that’s just if that week was a single tape… since it was a single tape one week then a double the next. So take a month’s glance at minimum – $300 week 1, $600 week 2, $300 week 3, $600 week 4 – that’s about $1800 PER MONTH pure profit from Standing Order tape alone. Figure out 26 weeks a year at $300 profit and 26 weeks a year at $600 profit and that’s $23,400 pure profit per year. It’s no wonder why they INSISTED and made you to feel guilty to be on Standing Order if you wanted to be taken seriously.

    Sure, the tapes were inspirational etc, but if they were trying to sell this as training tools to make a business better then why not give these tools to their business owners at the same price to all business owners. I can understand the system making a profit from the tapes, but individual business owners taking their share of the profits? That’s just wrong.

  65. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 1:05 am

    see thats what i mean. You get all defensive when i ask a basic legit question. And experiences are only facts if they have reliable intel, not he said she said stories.

    I mean come on, show me a fact, it simple. I’m not saying your all lying but it really makes you seem like a liar when you have nothing at all to back you up. If its true then there has to be a source somewhere that at least one of you can provide.

    You dont list facts n your experience arent defined as facts til they are proven. Logic. So dont disrespect me when i never did anything to you.

  66. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:00 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  67. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:03 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  68. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:30 am

    see even more ignorance. Im not even in the business idiot. All you did was make yourself look stupid and assume and twist information which discredits you even more. The holocaust. Hmm its called historical evidence such as pictures with first hand testimonies and documented information. What you say is fact is just.” Oh its a scam and this happened to us, but no one somehow in the whole world has anything other than thier story.” that not how facts work.

    But again if it did happen, then there has to be evidence, other than a blog site which mcaffe hasnt even checked yet. Smh

    find and show me evidence or stfu. You talk negative about something when you can atleast back up your claims a lil bit.

  69. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:36 am

    and im not defending the duncans. Im asking for one of you to show even a shred of accurate info. Simple logical moral correct.

  70. webelieved permalink
    March 6, 2011 5:35 am

    I have lots of evidence of what TEAM has done to me, too bad I won’t be showing you unless you are an attorney???!!! You must not have read all of the posts under ex team. Either you are someone trying to take away the legitimacy of what you are reading, or you were told we were losers and whiners who are negative and didn’t want to do the work….. I think $100,000+ income before taxes proves we did the work. Also you would know us if you were on TEAM as we were on stage all over the country……….so we did do the work and we made it!!! By the way my time is to valuable so I will not waste my time on unimportant questions, or character attacks. If you have a legitimate question I may answer…. ????? we will see…..

  71. webelieved permalink
    March 6, 2011 5:41 am

    Jimbo, got where we wanted to be, $100,000+ before expenses, and had it stolen…..
    Folks this is one more cult mindset tactic they teach you ….. critics didn’t get where wanted to cause they didn’t do the work…. losers, don’t want to do the work.blah blah
    If someone is reading this search out my posts on ex-team commenting
    Also I refuse to waste my valuable time, arguing with someone with no facts. Have fun.

  72. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 6:05 am

    ahhh and now excuses come into play. Hmmm only your attorney!? Well i guess there is facts after all. Its just closed off to everyone who post here and yet if it was available to see, then there wouldnt be any arguments on any site. Now my next question which is as vaulable as any, is why do you guys make it so difficult to find? If you just showed it, end of story. I would appreciate and thankyou for giving a real comeback. Btw i will be reading those post u mentioned and hopefully find a fact.

  73. webelieved permalink
    March 6, 2011 6:19 am

    You have no idea what it is like to have your whole life stolen from you, go broke, because of what some millionares using thought reform, did to you. And then be asked by you, someone I do not trust and I do not know,in a public forum, to expose your identity to them and to be abused all over again.Do you not know if I show the world then I will be at risk of more false slander, and financial attacks???? Get a clue. Go read Eric Schriebler’s Merchants of Deception book, you can find it for free if you look hard enough and then come back. You may understand then, the fear. I will not take abuse from you or anyone else trying to devalue my experience.. Good luck, sorry for you if you don’t take the warnings. By the way why don’t you show us the facts of the position you are trying to defend?

  74. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 6:54 am

    um okay. First i did not mean to offend you and dont understand how showing that information could allow me to abuse you???

    If anything that would be the holy grail of proof. I would thankyou and then support you by actually knowing there are facts. Also if people were to know your id then what. How would they slander your name if your not even in that business any more?

    Also my position is the truth. Majority of post here are repeats of the same thing with no evidences or links to any site that has evidences. Thats why im trying so hard to get one of you for once to stop just ranting about your situations and actually do something. You want to stop people from getting into hell, then take action. Do something that actually works.

    But either way ty for replying and i will try to find that book so that i can comphrehend your pov better.

  75. Vogel permalink
    March 6, 2011 7:58 am

    Who the F are you to be telling people to STFU? What exactly have YOU added to this discussion? Nada. You are what’s known as a “troll”. Pathetic!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

    Comments like yours only add to the scamminess of this scam.

  76. Vogel permalink
    March 6, 2011 8:03 am

    Um…being offensive seems to be your raison d’etre. Your position is not the truth; you don’t even have a discernible position.

    “Thats why im trying so hard to get one of you for once to stop just ranting about your situations”

    That’s a very odd course of action for someone who claims to have no vested interest in the subject matter. WTF do you care if people talk about their experiences? If it bothers you so much, don’t read them. Simple enough, right?

  77. humiliated permalink
    March 6, 2011 8:59 am

    Right. You mentioned that the Holocaust had first hand testimony and was historically documented but this was AFTER THE WAR. You understand that what these people are sharing ARE first hand testimonies? Whether you believe them or not is irrelevant because you have never been involved, so you haven’t EXPERIENCED what they have experienced. It rings true to any body who’s life has been destroyed by TEAM and I am sure that any hard evidence they have will come out, in time.

    These people are still in fear of those that run TEAM but are slowly building their courage to stand up to them. That is why they are sharing their “truths” and they have only just begun. This is all a process for them and it would serve you well to respect it. It is in incredibly poor taste for you to come on here and dictate how this process should work. This is not, as you say “an argument” on the internet, this is people mourning the loss of years of their lives, their trust and their money.

    Also, these commenters have posted on the Juice Scam site and there has been feedback from readers that they will not be “joining” TEAM because of what these people have to say, so, that in and of itself is a highly productive use of their time.

  78. Amdroid permalink
    March 6, 2011 9:40 am

    “Experiences are only facts if they have reliable intel, not he said she said stories.”

    So you don’t believe ANYTHING you hear from ANYONE unless they have definitive proof of some kind? So a simple scenario here, paralleling your [whacked] thought process.

    You’re hanging around 2 other buddies from school and they are saying the following “hey, Bob Smith kissed my girl in PE today, right in front of me!!” and then your other buddy says “ya, Bob Smith grabbed my girlfriend’s ass in lunch line today too. I saw it and so did 5 other people”.
    Would you tell them to STFU unless they had proof? Would you tell them what they saw would be much more interesting if they had proof ? If you went and talked to these 5 witnesses and they verified the ‘experience’ would you believe them since they all saw the same thing? Or would you call them liars unless they had pictures or a video? If you talked to say 5 other people that didn’t see it happen, would you be more inclined to believe them because it simply fits your way of thinking more?

    You see, just because you don’t witness something or there isn’t physical proof somewhere, doesn’t mean that it isn’t the truth or didn’t happen to the person.

    We’ve all experienced aspects of the business, just like your buddies girlfriend’s experienced Bob Smith. Have all girlfriend’s had that same experience with Bob Smith? No. But you are on here saying that unless you have proof that Bob Smith did that to your girlfriends then STFU. Who bestowed the honor to you of getting to dictate what people talk about.

    I feel sorry for anyone you associate with. No one can ever tell you a story of something happening in their life or an experience they had with someone or something without you belittling them or telling them to shut up unless they have evidence. Well, unless it fits your needs or beliefs and suits you.

    And you better not be telling anyone either of things that happen to you unless you have pictures, links or a 100% sure way of proving it. God forbid!!

  79. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 10:24 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  80. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 6, 2011 11:27 am

    Jimbo…Jimbo
    I beg to differ, it is WAY DIFFERENT, unless of course your ” dream of your baseball career” was taken from you by lies, deception, and corruption.
    Thanks for understanding though!
    You coming here being so understanding and all, wouldn’t happen to be a part of a “master plan” by some PC counsel agenda, would it?
    Just a simple question. Good luck with all your dreams!

  81. March 6, 2011 11:04 pm

    No wonder, our upline wanted to get Emerald done at ANY COST.

    No wonder, they teach “Standing order is minimum wage.”

    No wonder my upline used to bark at us if we did not send out a tool order every week….and God should only save you if you did not take the time out and browse the list of tools available and order extra tools every week in addition to your standing order count.

    No wonder if somebody ordered a bunch of extra cds, they would be promoted as the next big thing and their tool order email would be forwarded to be everybody else to motivate them to order more tools as well.

    No wonder, we never received any refund on over $2K worth tools we returned.

  82. March 7, 2011 12:23 am

    FYI – I don’t think @Right is any of those people.

  83. right permalink
    March 7, 2011 2:43 am

    okay well if you just said that in the first place about them fearing and slowly but surely coming together to actually do something, i would have ended my convo earlier. Also refering to my holcaust resource. You forgot to mention i said with pics. Hard proof of the holocaust. But anyways okay i see your point. Just try to make it more clear so those in those businesses do understand. And btw im noot any of those people.

    Also the reason i also care to read these is if people were just lying and spreading negative, they should be stopped. Now after getting a better discription do i see this is not a lie and can be continued. Either way i hope you guys take action together and quickly. Do not fear TEAM and believe if everything your saying is correct that there is a way to win and finally prove this to the world. There shouldnt be anything else to fear if they already messed you up so much. Legally they cannot do anything now. You know what to do so i hope you all decide to.

  84. aurora permalink
    March 7, 2011 6:16 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  85. SILLY RABBIT permalink
    March 7, 2011 5:57 pm

    YOU ALSO WONT HAVE ANY MONEY TO RETIRE YOU DUMB SKANK

  86. webelieved permalink
    March 7, 2011 5:59 pm

    Here is a link to a free ebook MERCHANTS OF DECEPTION happy reading

    http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/DOWNLOADBOOK.html Download Merchants of Deception Book free

  87. right permalink
    March 8, 2011 12:58 am

    welli said what i had to say, and if want to ignore the fact that i already said im not defending them and am not in that business thats all on you. Im a person who researches for answers and not a troll. You need alot more evidence to believe this fully such as real pics and such because this afffects so many people and the majority are against the beliefs here vs the situation of bob in an earlier comment. Something such as this requires major legal action vs bob doing a misdemeanor. May god bless you somehow someway because you all need it. Also i do backup what i say with evidences such as videos or whatever when i tell or mmostly show people stories.

    Sinserily right.

  88. aurora permalink
    March 8, 2011 3:45 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  89. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:25 am

    Silly Rabbit – way to pick a post from almost 3 months ago to comment on, loser. WWDB didn’t help with our retirement plan, although we sure helped out theirs. Thanks for your useless insight.

  90. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:28 am

    right – yu English suk.

    Bi, amdroid

  91. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:29 am

    Oh, and yeah, sure you back up almost all your stories with videos or “whatever”. It’s really easy just to say that. Prove it, hypocrite.

  92. March 8, 2011 8:49 am

    There are public documents verifying that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. His income was listed as $500K from Amway and $500K from tools and functions. A nice income but not one that can sustain several mansions, jets and other luxuries and certainly he did not buy all these items in cash.

  93. right permalink
    March 9, 2011 11:20 am

    okay can u give me a link to these public documents so i may read them. If it shows his income from amway and tools that is more than enough evidence to back up whateveryone here has been saying. Why didnt one of you just post this earlier? Btw im also reading that pdf book someone here mentioned.

  94. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 9, 2011 11:56 am

    right
    Great you will find the read insight, and disturbing I am sure of it. You also might want to check out Pyramid Scheme Alerts site, Juicescam for more education, Rick Ross site and Steve Hassan, Freedom of Mind Centers information and his books. This should give you a real education.

  95. aurora permalink
    March 9, 2011 12:08 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  96. Joecool permalink
    March 9, 2011 12:43 pm

    Aurora, I don’t know what became of Greg Duncan’s financials after the proceedings. The fact is though, that he does not buy homes in cash. A diamond’s income is not all it’s promoted to be as well. A valid question is why Greg needed a million dollar loan from Amway? Couldn’t Brad Duncan, a big Amway crown or whatever, simply take out his checkbook and give Greg a million or two?

  97. right permalink
    March 9, 2011 2:26 pm

    finally. Thankyou for actually sourcesing something. I’d appreciated more earlier, but the questions have been answered and thats what counts.

  98. Amdroid permalink
    March 9, 2011 2:44 pm

    Wait a minute. Didn’t I hear one of Greg Duncan’s tapes that he used to in some way counsel the President of the U.S.? I also think he was introduced that way as a speaker. But I want to say he was a financial counselor for the President? God, if so I don’t know even know where to begin to explain the hypocrisy and jokes explaining why the U.S. is in debt as it is.

    Really? $900,000 in jewelry and furs? How many homes and property? And then you get to just declare bankruptcy? Seriously, people like this need to be shot and exterminated. Soooo many people looked up to him as being a financial “god”. What a joke and scam it really all is.

  99. Joecool permalink
    March 10, 2011 1:21 pm

    Greg Duncan was counsel for the president of Greg Duncan Enterprises. LOL

  100. aurora permalink
    March 12, 2011 4:49 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  101. right permalink
    March 26, 2011 2:25 am

    hey i have a new question considering the direct platinum profit of tools such as tapes. Since amway worked with the state of hawaii and produced a new document for a businesses, it is to state that they recieve no profits from any tools or products sold. This is only required by law in hawaii as far as i have researched. How would they then profit this way? How do some lose money if they have a hub since”as wwdb say” they recieve no money from the tools/products sold directly other than in pv/bv as far as platinums n below count.

  102. right permalink
    March 29, 2011 5:02 am

    cmon give me an answer? Or you cant?

  103. aurora permalink
    March 30, 2011 4:20 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  104. right permalink
    April 3, 2011 6:27 am

    that he greg duncan lied specifically. as can be possible with other diamonds. He will reap what he sows when god judges him. Either way when the economy drops all the diamonds(along with most of america) will be broke. Now can you please answer my question. Do you know how or if they can profit from tools in hawaii with these legal documents in place? Or did mat tsuruda just lose alot of cash being the only diamond left there.

  105. aurora permalink
    April 4, 2011 5:49 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  106. April 5, 2011 4:33 pm

    I don’t wish financial difficulties on anyone, but Greg Duncan’s issues show that diamonds are not bullet proof. They can make bad decisions and may not be the all knowing gurus about money that they sometimes proclaim from a WWDB stage. It also shows clearly that diamonds do not make the kind of income that would sustain a “diamond” lifestyle. Greg Duncan was making only half a million dollars a year from Amway. A great income for sure but not nearly enough to sustain the lifestyle he was implying or trying to portray.

  107. aurora permalink
    April 6, 2011 8:58 am

    Right;

    No one knows what you are talking about. Since English isn’t your first language, it makes it extra hard to figure out what you are saying.

    I haven’t heard about any document produced for Hawaii re: amway tool profits. You’ll probably have to ask a higher-up in wwdb. Good luck getting any version of the truth. They’ll feed you so much tape-speak bullshit, even you will be confused.

    What is the latest on Matt Tsuruda? Is he still a diamond?

  108. April 6, 2011 10:23 am

    Matt Tsuruda was an EDC when I was an IBO. I’m not sure where he’s at and frankly, I wonder if he’s even a diamond as of this writing. Seems funny though, that many of the Hawaii diamonds moved to states where the cost of living is cheaper. Mike Woods went to Texas and Scott Harimoto moved to Washington. Teresa Tsuruda married Howie Danzik but they don;t live in Hawaii either.

  109. aurora permalink
    April 6, 2011 1:59 pm

    Joe;

    I don’t think there are too many of us old wwdb codgers on here. Would love to get my hands on a current tools list. Boy, oh, boy, that’d be an eye-opener.

    Can anyone get us a copy of that list? Could you post it here?

    I’m with you on not wishing ill-will on any of these folks. But for goodness’s sake, say something! Their silence screams volumes. I say man-up and come clean. Admit your mistakes. We are a forgiving audience.

    I would add, we’d like the truth this time around.

  110. April 6, 2011 5:57 pm

    RP 587 A Financial Planners Viewpoint – Sestina

    Prospecting packs

    EM 53 Planning a Successful future – Sestina
    INT 1001 Tapping into the network
    RP 2295 How to create wealth – britt

    True North

    RP 511 Getting Started – G Duncan
    RP 56 How to invite and contact – Puryear
    RP 380S Prospecting – Hawkins
    RP 504S Follow up and Follow thru Severn
    RP 391 Legitimizing your business – Puryear
    RP 189 How to be CORE – Daughery
    RP 453S Go Diamond in two years – britt
    RP 421S Friendship/directship – Puryear

    Diamond

    ADS 55 John/Jennie Crowe
    ADS 58 Rex/Betty Renfrow
    ADS 59 Bob/Jackie Zeender
    CR 53 Dave/Lorna Taylor
    DBS 37 Paul/Debbie Miller
    DBS 39 Angelo/Claudia Nardone
    DIA 119 Jack/Magee Spencer
    LPL 7S Trevor/Jackie Lowe
    RP 90 Dave/Jo Eggers
    RP 145 John/Pam Marta
    RP 159 Fred.Madelon Holpp
    RP 187 Steve/Chris Cummins
    RP 192 Jim/Betty Brooks
    RP 200 Bob/Mary Smiley
    RP 223 Gator/Connie Strog
    RP 231 Toshi/Bea Taba
    RP 251 Terry/Fran Woodhead
    RP 258 Theron/Darlene Nelson
    RP 264S Jeff/Andrea Moore
    RP 267 Ken/Gail Stokes
    RP 283 Al/Kathy Gallo
    RP 293 Bill/Sandie Hawkins
    RP 319 Gene/Sheryl Lamazor
    RP 329 Bill/Nancy Kelly
    RP 331S Dave/Jan Severn
    RP 332 Jim/Judy Head
    RP 355 Roger/Joyce Fix
    RP 357 Greg/Laurie Duncan
    RP 392S Brad/Julie Duncan
    RP 394 Bob/Betty Wells
    RP 397 Norm/Pam Kirizian
    RP 401 Joe/Norma Foglio
    RP 412 Terry/Linda Felber
    RP 423 Jack/Rita Daughery
    RP 458S Dave/Debbie Shores
    RP 465S Rocky Covington
    RP 469S Ron/Georgia Puryear
    RP 498 Larry/Pam Winters
    RP 499 Chris/Judy Cherest
    RP 500 Bruce/Rita Dreyer
    RP 501 Greg/Cathy Jahnke
    RP 505 Randy/Connie Glasock
    RP 507 Dan/Sandie Yuen
    RP 510 Nick/Julia Olynyk
    RP 521 Chuck/Cindy Mace
    RP 523 Jim/Julie Hardstead
    RP 535 Brad/Leslie Wolgamott
    RP 538 Dave/Mary Timko
    RP 540 Rod/Penny Alcott
    RP 581 Frank/Sheilagh Radford
    RP 594 Glen/Joya Baker
    RP 598 Scott/Cris Harimoto
    RP 600 Darel/Kathy Ansley
    RP 602 Don/Jan Ashlock
    RP 604 Randy/Sandy Sears
    RP 606 Mike/Michi Woods
    RP 608 Tom/Judy Ashlock
    RP 616 Mike/Robin Carroll
    RP 618 Keiji/Jean Bulette
    RP 630 Theresa Tsuruda
    RP 340 Mike/Jane Whims
    RP 646 Dennis/Connie Long

  111. Amdroid permalink
    April 6, 2011 6:00 pm

    This is a current tools list? Wow, looks like they are recycling through the old tapes. Shocking!!

  112. Ken permalink
    April 6, 2011 6:15 pm

    No that’s a very old list. I have a good friend who is still in the biz and Ill get some info from him. It’s the same old crap tho. Just for giggles I logged onto the wwdb site (login in is still guest and dream) and found a local 2nd look meeting and actually attended it. It was funny because I was dressed down and got it as a guest when I was once the guy collecting money at the door. Anyway it was howie danzik speaking. Same old tired crap. It was the first one I had been to since my departure 3 years ago. He mentioned some new flavor of junk you squeeze in water and it was almost like the whole brainwashed crowd had an orgasm. They ooowwed and ahhwed over it. I stayed after just to watch people huddle around the players taking notes like they were celebrities.

  113. right permalink
    April 6, 2011 8:16 pm

    ill try find out the document i posted about. There a link to it on hawaiis state site. And matt tsuruda bought out a bunch of land on oahu and is already in developement of there second and third house there. One house is for thier platinum parents there and its all on agricultural land. So there rushing cause the laws here are changing to limit land development on those types of land.

  114. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 5:11 am

    Ya, that’s a very old list from the 90’s. Does anyone still have Dean Kosage’s Emerald tape?

  115. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 8:16 am

    Ken;

    Howie Danzik??? You’ve got to be kidding. He’s gotta be getting up there. We first saw him and his then wife, Susie Danzik – funny how they leave that little tidbit out, isn’t it?, in 1995.

    Very shorty after, they divorced b/c ‘she didn’t have a dream, she was a floozy, she had no dream, she was dragging him down, fill in the blank.

    Enter Teresa Tsuruda. How marries her and it’s like Susie never existed.

    They spent years telling how Teresa was begging God to bring her a husband. Supposedly Ron Puryear tells her to make a detailed list of what she wants in a man, and lo and behold, Howie made the grade. Glory be.

  116. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 10:05 am

    By “… they divorced b/c ‘she didn’t have a dream, she was a floozy, she had no dream, she was dragging him down, fill in the blank”, that means that Susan got busted screwing her tennis instructor and got the boot by Howie.

  117. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:23 am

    Hi, Amdroid;

    Nice of you to stop by. Do you use the same standard to judge Brad Wolgamott for him sleeping with bar hops? Remember him? His amway diamond claim-to-fame was SAVING MARRIAGES!

    Funny how that backfires when you’re the one out whoring around.

  118. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:34 am

    I’m always amazed how when someone divorces in wwdb, they go after the one that dared leave the cult. They totally trash their characters. How would we know different? We can’t get a hold of Susie to get her side.

    I’m sure your upline, amdroid, tells you only the pure unadulterated amway truth, right? Ambots would never lie or exaggerate anything ever.

    Hey, Amdroid, have you heard the voicemail of Ron Puryear, Greg Duncan, and a third ‘droid going after Dino Kosage? It’s great. They eat their own.

  119. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:42 am

    I have the same standard for anyone who cheats on their spouse. In this case we were just talking about Susan Danzik.
    Do I remember Brad Wolgamott? How could anyone in any LOS not know who he was. I got my pic with him back in the day while he was still proclaiming to how the business made his marriage to Leslie so awesome. Obviously that was crap, just like it all pretty much was.

    Let’s make a list here of “Claim-to-Fames”:

    Brad Wolgamott – Marriage Saver – oops, screwed around on his wife and she left him
    Greg Duncan – Pay cash for everything, I can!! – oops, been bankrupt how many times now

    Next?

  120. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:49 am

    Sorry, Aurora, I’m no longer in the business. Was out in the late 90’s. Don’t know where you’re getting that I’m backing Amway or WWDB or the business at all.

    True, I don’t know Susan’s side, but why is my explanation of what happened any different than yours? Yours is just vague about her not having a dream. Mine was a little more personal about her from what I head right when it all happened. For all I know, it’s wrong, just trying to add to the conversation. I sure hope you’re not being defensive bc you’re a woman. Like I said before, anyone who cheats on their spouse, man or woman, is crap in my book.

    Have I heard the vm? Yes, I got a copy of that and exposed it on another website that posted it.

  121. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 1:11 pm

    Amdroid;

    I’m very sorry to have offended you. I must have mistken your tone about Susie.

    Please accept my apology?

  122. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:36 pm

    O.K., This is scary. Where are all the posts?

  123. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:50 pm

    Definitely. I figured you may have taken my comment the wrong way.

  124. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:51 pm

    Looks like you have to click on “Older Comments” link below the video. Amthrax, did something change bc when the page refreshes you have to click the “Older Comments” each time to show the posts.

  125. April 8, 2011 12:01 am

    Each post shows up to 100 comments at a time. You have to click the Older Comments to see previous ones.

  126. evolution23 permalink
    July 26, 2011 6:36 pm

    I love how everyone is talking him down, yet brad clearly says that greg didn’t listen to even his own advice, but is it the first time where a person in an overall good organization makes some poor decisions and it backfires. If one person would ruin an entire organization, how does it still run, how does the us government still exist, there have been many presidents who have done far worse things and yet record numbers of people vote. Nothing in the business says to borrow money and put it in risky investments, yet greg did and now he owes a lot of money, he still recieves his monthly income, but he now has a deep hole to climb out of.

  127. Old Mountain Man permalink
    September 7, 2011 2:32 pm

    People that got divorced while I was in WWDB, included Howie, (He said she cheated on him whit the tennis pro at the club) Jim Brooks, (He said she cheated on him with a direct in their business), and Frank Radford, I never heard about that one.
    I also did not hear about Samir Attalh cheating on his spouse, and that there was a lawsuit by the direct lady that he cheated with. She got her business pulled because of the rule, “Don’t mess with anybody’s spouse”. Since she was single, Samir didn’t fall under that rule and walked away. Does that seem fair to anyone? I sure don’t think it right. Oh yeah, there was one more, how about Bill Britt with the real estate agent in Florida? Peggy had pictures of them making out in a car. She had all his finances froze for a bit too. I don’t know if they ended up divorced, but I remember cheering the fat man taking every word as gospel. I was told by upline to not look at any “negative” on the internet. If I found any to let him know so he could pass it on and let the amlawyers do their job. When I left, and I spoke to my former upline about Britt, she said he retired, funny.
    Actually I used the principles that was in the books to build a nice business and an actually retired now at 57, but not thru any MLM business, I can’t say I wasted my time, but I did have to face reality and it wasn’t pleasant. Even WWDB was run by humans, and they are far from perfect. The thing that bothers me is that they try to portray themselves as perfect. I can’t dis anyone defending amscay, they are just doing what they are programmed to do, just like I was. Either they will have their moment of truth, or they will build the business and find out by the time they are making so much money, they will have to compromise their own morals to keep it coming in, or leave. It’s the hardest decision I ever made to drop an emerald-level business and walk away. I turned to a different direction, and built a conventional business. I live on the sale price of that business that is invested. All of this is just one man’s opinion, use the “shopping cart method” and take what you can use, and don‘t be bothered by what you can‘t. I always wondered what would have happened if I built the business just off of selling the product. Terry Felber had a ruby level in his down line, that just sold products to industrial customers. The soap is attractive to places that have to worry about pollution, since a lot of it is bio-degradable. He had barrels of LOC moving thru his business, and lived quite comfortable on just the profits. I’d bet someone in sales could do this with ease.
    Smiles.

  128. Dwayne Lizar permalink
    December 13, 2011 8:55 pm

    It’s a small walk from the mansion to the outhouse! What a crock this “business” is.

  129. Winner permalink
    December 27, 2011 10:54 pm

    Howie and Theresa Danzik have lost a ton of their big pins. Howie runs the business like it’s a turn ‘em and burn ‘em business. He is soooo egotistical it’s kind of funny actually. And Theresa is so smarmy and fake. I don’t know how anyone takes them seriously. They are like the high school jock and cheerleader who never really grew up and try to manipulate people into keeping them popular (unfortunately while taking all their money). I worked with them directly for years. So glad to be done with their fake business.

  130. Matt permalink
    March 4, 2012 9:07 pm

    Huh here’s one thing interesting about this…that’s NOT Brad Duncan’s voice…and there is no ACTUAL video of him talking…I’ve personally seen Brad several times, talked to the man, AND I’ve been to his house over in Spokane. I’ve listened to him on KATE and I know what Brad’s voice sounds like and THAT IS NOT IT. Just something I thought was interesting.

  131. April 16, 2012 11:32 am

    Old Mountain Man and Ken… Why don’t you put down your complete names and some proof of your claims instead of entertaining a hand full of critics who will more than likely struggle to be successful at any endeavor they pursue. They’ll likely quit, wet on themselves, and then blog about how immoral their next venture was.. When you blame you lose. You boys are all losing.

  132. 1formeribo permalink
    April 16, 2012 1:33 pm

    Timmy, you are fooling yourself. Most of what these guys have posted in public record. Even Greg Duncan’c bankruptcy is public records. Who don’t IBOs once and for prove that they are profitable?

  133. Mountain Man permalink
    April 16, 2012 3:41 pm

    Hi Timmy
    An honest question, and deserves an answer.
    The real and honest reason that I will not use my real name, is that I am set for life, if I don’t do anything stupid. If you are really interested, all you have to do is find a list of people that qualified for emerald, and quit before they got the pin. I am in there.
    The other reason is that anyone who runs one of these pages will tell you that if you dare to write anything remotely bad about scamway, their lawyers will start filing lawsuits against you, and you will waste you money in court defending your right of free speech against the goon squad.
    The bottom line is that your opinion of me is simply not worth my retirement to make you, or anyone else believe what I said. If you want the information, is out there on the internet.
    You can believe whatever you wish, I will never lose any sleep over it.
    Mtn.

  134. alvie permalink
    June 13, 2012 1:43 am

    Chapter 7 for Greg? I thought most of his assets were under a corp which would require a chapter 13 to restructure your debt. When it comes to real estate you can return the collateral and the mortgage note be wiped out. Bankruptcy is nothing new to millionaires, remember the Trump filed BK for close to $1B. You can still declare BK even when receiving income. Not any different than if you make $100k annually and file BK because you owe monthly payments that exceed your monthly income and you have no chance to ever repay the debt.

    I am not an IBO, I used to be one, as much as WWDB may be a cult, the truth is anything you do to create incredible financial wealth will require you to act like you are in a cult – I run a software start-up and it requires me to be 24/7 about the growth of the company – between bootstrapping pitching Angel investors, making daily decision and just running the company – you have to think that way.

    In all your experiences it is your decision to chose what you take with you. I am greatful for what I learned but it’s just not what I want to do with my life.

  135. griffin12 permalink
    November 1, 2012 8:03 am

    I have read Paul Tsika’s book “get married, stay married” and my wife and I found it very helpful to read leading up to our wedding. The Tsika’s were very transparent in it talking about Pauls adultery that he committed. It seems like it would be very hard to write about that in a book that will be read by thousands of people. Can’t say whether he is goof or bad, it’s not my place to judge. All i know is the book was beneficial for my wife and me.

  136. Truthisnotpleasent permalink
    November 15, 2012 7:59 pm

    Everyone who posted comments on how WWDB is a scam or not succeeding, is blind
    Eithe because they failed personnely and were unable to build the business. This is common in lazy people. Another reason why is doubt! For any second you doubt yourself or your leader you deedify yourself and them!
    This causes failure!

    For anyone who thinks the know the truth about WWDB diamonds and the personnel problems is a joke, their people who are barely motivated and do not succeed at life because their pride gets in the way!

    I agree the timing is everything! It may have been the wrong time to build the business for you!

    Before you judge look at where you are and what your doing! If you are sitting in front of your computer complaining about other people? Enough said!

    You all play as individuals! You won’t see what a team is till you play as a teammate!

    If you read all of the congrats, you have an open mind! First step to success!

  137. Vogel permalink
    November 15, 2012 8:37 pm

    Brought to you by MLM Autobot v2.0.

    Seriously, was that a joke? Do humans really talk like that?

  138. EastCoastEH permalink
    November 15, 2012 9:45 pm

    Truthisnotpleasent, If I was your upline and handed you the greatest C.D ever that repeated over and over “jump off the bridge!” Where would you be now?

  139. truthisnotpleasant permalink
    November 16, 2012 7:24 pm

    You are highly mistaken of what I am representing! I did not say do everything your told, I am suggesting that instead of criticizing others for trying hard and willing to work! How about you do something of value!

    This is a final comment:
    I only sent this message in hope of others
    Reading it and then decide about what there doing and if they are happy with it! It’s a message to convey the fact that we are all happy doing different things. Sense some may not agree with what other people do or how they operate! You should not discourage other people from reaching what they MIGHT like doing, just because your ignorant and selfish.

    Thank you for everyone on who did not take an offence

  140. November 17, 2012 6:02 am

    @Truthisnotpleasent Did no ever tell you nothin’bout preaching hollow wisdom? Stick to your knitting. Jeez some folks never look up . . . until they are flat on their backs.

  141. November 17, 2012 6:04 am

    @Truthisnotpleasent
    BTW what an irony in your choice of mlmbot drive-by handle.

  142. ExMLM, Willie permalink
    November 17, 2012 8:54 pm

    I find the Ambots comments funny. If they were really “plugged in” and following everything their upline teaches, they would not even be on this site. We were always told to not look up things on the internet unless our upline told us to. Not to fill our head with negative by reading anything about amscay or nixstar, especially if it was negative. Funny how they have to comment how “happy they are, and how they are really doing what it takes for their dream. They shouldn’t even have found this site in the first place!
    I dropped out after one of my married downline ladies kept bending over in front of me with no undies. She was caught by my wife doing this the second time, because I told my wife to watch and see if it was just my ego thinking this was happening. She told me that if it was my imagination, she would be wearing underwear, LOL. She went to church with her hubby and kids every week. I just wonder what book or tape said to flash your butt to your upline :-) I just didn’t want to get into this kind of mess. I’ve been married to a great Woman for 20 years now, and I won’t do anything to screw that up
    Another reason I quit was I was told flat out to lie to my downline about where the money really comes from. Another funny thing is that I had one man in my downline that was running Ruby volume and had no downline. He simple sold the product every month to industrial customers. He made more money on the mark-up of the goods then we did after doing all the silly meetings and such.

  143. November 17, 2012 9:15 pm

    Obviously your downline girl wasn’t being CORE because she wasn’t wearing business professional clothes (or undies LOL). Although inappropriate, I hope she was hot vs some oinker showing her cheese.

    $ is made in books, tapes (CDs now I’d hope) and functions. Retail is not what is preached at all, it’s all about building a business with prospecting… so that more people buy the books, tapes and go to functions.

  144. John permalink
    August 17, 2013 7:28 pm

    What a load of crap. If you want to impersonate Brad Duncan, find someone who can do his voice better. Just because the guy throws in “stinkin” and “fired up” a few times, it doesn’t make the impersonation any less weak.

    Seriously.. what is wrong with you people. Stop being turds, get off the computer, and go make something of yourselves. Nobody said you have to build the Amway business. Go shovel crap for all I care. Just stop excusing your failures by killing other people’s dreams.

  145. August 19, 2013 9:45 am

    John,

    We are trying to prevent those “dreams” from turning into “nightmares” before it costs more innocent people thousands of dollars. And make no mistake about it, the dream will turn into a nightmare for 99% of these people – the numbers don’t lie.

  146. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:21 pm

    Gotta love how all these guys play god and tell people what they think others “should”do with their lives as if they think we would jump their command. Hey, hey, hey haven’t you noticed we are FREE thinkers. :)

    Dream stealers, lazy, eh? Sounds just like the thousands of cds I heard and Im not even from your masters los.. Makin excuses for failures etc… all as old as Amways dirt. Bahahaha, have you checked your downlines profits vs loss statements lately, what about your own?

    Wish you guys would at least get creative, the rhetoric is alot like shovelin crap. This thread has given me some good laughs though, thanks a bunch!

  147. August 19, 2013 12:33 pm

    They are just different players in the same game that we all played years ago. Right now they can’t see the forest through the trees, they are newbies and, much like myself, have the biggest dreams in the world. But someday they will look back and wish they would’ve listened to those of us who’ve already gone through the minefield. It might take 2 weeks or 20 years, but eventually they will realize they were part of the 99.9% that don’t make it, regardless of how hard they think they are working it… and how many thousands of dollars and even worse… all the weeks, months and years of their life they wish they had back.

  148. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:36 pm

    Lettuce know after checking EVERYONE in your dowlines profit vs loss…who’s stealin whos dreams,…would ya? Warning……This will take some real honesty and facing some “brutal reality” though, you capable? …. “you can do it, we believe in ya!” :)

  149. Freedomhaha permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:44 pm

    Melaine- So far I have asked 42 contributors to this blog what percentage of their downline is making a profit. I have received ZERO responses to this date. Maybe I am writing in invisible ink?

  150. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:48 pm

    TH-

    Amen! They may even wind up being grateful to this site,…that is after the hail pelts them hard enough and they realize the pot of gold they are being promised,is elusive.

    It’s possible they would see this site as source of support, who knows, but I do know this, those they follow and feel obligated to ‘edify’….won’t give them the time of day after they stop attending and spending their $$…that’s a given.

  151. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:50 pm

    Freedom haha-

    Bahahahaha, what a mystery! :)

  152. August 19, 2013 12:50 pm

    Lettuce? Really?

  153. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 1:31 pm

    What’s really twisted is they think just because people won’t do Amway, Team/Life (name of their MLM)…then everyone gave up on their “dreams”…absurd! Or as if they somehow are the suppliers of everyones dreams…(hence playing god).

    Not to mention the years lost, and not everyones “dreams” are based on $$ or founded in greed, and not everyone is willing to decieve others (hence after they find the truth, why the business isn’t for everyone), I realize people are bedazzled and can’t see the forest through the trees (we were one if them) but the TOP dogs know the odds …

    And if money were needed…I say first soul search find YOUR dream (not what they played you on) and then find an honest way to achieve your dreams.

    Youu will save yourself many years wasted on trusting people who lie to you to keep you in, a bad business model that drains you in everyway… go to vegas..at least.the odds are better,…you won’t get your dreams on false hope, ….most people find a way and it isn’t in an MLM… the possibilites are endless keep seeking,…, but by their path at least for most 95-99 % sadly that will shatter their dreams and they will lose hope trying to recover from the losses in time & money…and so much more..

  154. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 1:32 pm

    Humor TH…:)

  155. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    August 19, 2013 2:37 pm

    While I gave my attempt at building the biz… I had this side thought that I could make more getting a newspaper route with customers that WANTED my product!
    My ‘little’ thought was a very good acid test… – The thing missing was the upline’s suggestion that the tap root would bring all kinds of wealth if you followed the system.
    NOW after a few years (post the Tm-M/V daze), a foundation of making a biz great is volume. THERE is impossible volume in MLM – unless you have:

    A top 6
    A next level of about 6 leaders each
    Massess of people to shuffle to keep the top 6 and those just below full of volume.

    You can NOT generate any volume without a product that give price breaks by selling more! The M/V was like $130 per case of 4 bottles, and both the Tm and M/V bragged how they were selling in the millions of bottles per month, yet the price never budged a CENT… AND how nice – through these rough times over the last 5 years – they have NOT even raised their price!

  156. Joecool permalink
    August 19, 2013 4:34 pm

    It’s ironic because it is the Amway diamonds who are stealing people dreams. Stealing those dreams one cd or one function at a time. It’s sad that those who are being fleeced think that people in the upline are helping and mentoring them. That’s the insidious part. These WWDB leaders aren’t asking for thousands of dollars upfront. It’s $8 here, or $125 there for a major function. After a year or more, those losses begin to mount. And that’s including time lost away from family and friends.

    If Brad Duncan was so wealthy, why didn’t he bail out his brother? What’s a few million when you’re rolling in dough?

  157. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 5:00 pm

    Joecool-

    Sad how they convince the people they are going to load up their right pockets to ‘achieve their dreams’….. while consitantly taking from their costantly taking from their left pocket and they have you so distracted you don’t see it disappearing to for the masses never return.

    Fastfruit-

    And they like to say the “critics” never offer anything better? The paper route is a much better offer with profit. The first day!

  158. Winning TEAM permalink
    December 15, 2013 1:47 pm

    I remember when i was loser and quit amway and complained to everyone about my problems and said they were all tied to amway because that’s what quitters like me do, we blame everyone else for our marriage and money problems, Its super relieving for me. Thanks guys for letting me know how many other losers there are like me in the world ! :) gosh did everyone else go out and fail at everything else in life they tried to pursue after amway like me ;) ? i hope so !

  159. January 15, 2014 3:25 pm

    All of this is bulshit and non of this is true

  160. TheHub permalink
    January 15, 2014 4:52 pm

    @Opens… I’m convinced!! You’re deep level of conviction and factual evidence is overwhelming!! Where do I sign?

  161. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 15, 2014 6:54 pm

    Opens~

    Hahahahaha…reeeallly?…lame diversion tactic… :)

  162. Joecool permalink
    January 21, 2014 4:34 pm

    I wonder if anyone knows what is happening with Greg Duncan? I wonder if’s he’s recovered from bankruptcy or if he is still swimming in debt?

  163. Troll permalink
    February 1, 2014 8:29 pm

    It’s funny because people like you would probably creates websites like this about any business you attempted to build with some one else and quit. Responsibility lies within yourself. They business model makes perfect logical sense, multi billionaires including Donald trump endorse network marketing companies, and the business has an A+ rating with the BBB. So if it didn’t work for you, it’s your fault. Also, Greg Duncan went bankrupt from a case filed against him from people you. He won that case, by the way. Have fun retiring at 65! Possibly never retiring!

  164. TheHub permalink
    February 2, 2014 8:37 pm

    Yep, it’s our fault… quitting and failing in a business model where less than 1% of people make the good $. I think everyone on this site has, in one of Amthrax’s blogs, admitted that they quit and realized it was they themselves that quit and it was THEIR decision, and understand their responsibility. Yes, of course the business makes sense that it can work, but not like they claim, sorry. Why else would we have all gotten in? You have fun spending thousands of dollars on books, functions and CDs… only to find out later, after you’re broke, that we were right all along. Hey, by the way, do you have factual evidence that “we” caused Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy? Or is that just what “they” told you and naturally is the 100% complete truth as you know it? Soon, young Padawan, you will too learn that it’s not all YOU that is responsible in your failure.

  165. February 2, 2014 9:54 pm

    Can

  166. February 2, 2014 10:11 pm

    Can we please stop the “Donald Trump endorses MLMs” nonsense? This has bugged me for a while because 1) I initially bought it as fact 2) I’ve had 2 other people trying to con me into their MLMs with it.

    It’s the perfect Team (or any MLM) throwaway comment because it probably wouldn’t be disputed in a court of law (Trump endorses HIS Networking company that sells crap) but has hardly any relevance to LIFE or anything else not paying him. When you add it in the middle of a train of half-truths as Troll did, it is easily accepted and could possibly fool someone into thinking MLM is a legitimate opportunity that famously successful people take part in.

    If you Google Donald Trump Network Marketing, pick the 2nd result & read the blurb on that shyster Kyosaki’s pamphlet, Trump speaks in the vaguest of generalities & doublespeak about MLMs.

    If you anyone calls that an endorsement & use that in your pitch to con others into your group, you truly have a deceitful heart.

  167. Joecool permalink
    February 10, 2014 5:58 pm

    PJ, you’re right about Trump. But even if Trump did endorse something, that doesn’t mean it’s good. He could be paid to endorse various products using his name recognition as the pull. If he really thought network marketing was go great, why isn’t he doing it rather than talking about it.

    Kiyosaki is a huckster who sells seminars. He made his money selling books and seminars. The advice he gives in his books sounds ridiculous and I highly doubt that he’s made much money in real estate or network marketing. He’s also using name recognition to sell books and questionable advice to brainwashed Amway IBO’s.

  168. Mike aka OHIO NATIVE permalink
    April 9, 2014 10:34 am

    The first step of recovery is admitting or defining the PROBLEM. We were in a cult.

    FACT: There are such things as financial cults.
    This is one of them. A very big and sophisticated one. I need my mind deprogrammed from cult thinking.

    Deprogramming statements:

    Quitters in Amway are not losers, they are independent thinkers making intelligent rational decisions based on facts and not buying the deception.
    Mathematically speaking, the quitters are winners compared to over 99% of people in the business.

    REAL LOSERS bilk millions of dollars off of people that trust them using sophisticated mind control.
    REAL LOSERS are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    LOSERS say don’t let anyone steal your dream. WINNERS say don’t let anyone steal your money.

    They say don’t believe negative information. WE say negative is an opinion, however FACTS ARE FACTS.

    They say don’t associate with people who don’t support your business. WE say don’t associate with con-men and liars.

    They say we love you. WE say no you don’t, you are trying to take financial advantage of us.

    They say we only make money if we help you make money. WE say you only make money if 99% of your downline LOSES money.

    They say you can be free. WE say you are not free so you cannot teach US to be free.

    They say you can do it. WE say we refuse to take advantage of people.

    They say you can be RICH. WE say not if it means turning into con-men and liars.

    They say they are Christians. WE say you run an extremely high risk of God telling you that He never knew you.

    They say look how many people came to the Lord because of us. WE say cults attempt to use God to justify their crimes.

    They say get out of debt. WE say your tools business INTENTIONALLY DRIVES VICTIMS deeper into debt.

    They say don’t miss the next big meeting. WE say you are promoting another MONEY STEALING event.

    They say there is no risk. WE say that YOU are the RISK.

    They say that winners never quit. WE say winners QUIT repeating the same mistakes.

    They say the quitters never win. WE say that the quitters immediately win 99% of the time. And the other 1% are crooks.

    They say 95% of all people don’t win in life. WE say that those are better odds than you are offering.

    They say that this is not illegal. WE say that it needs to be made illegal but our legal system is too corrupt to do what is right.

    They say that this is not a cult. WE say than how do you steal millions of dollars off of people that keep losing thousands of dollars each year without using sophisticated mind control?

    I’m OUT of this cult.

    OHIO NATIVE

  169. TruthSeeker permalink
    April 9, 2014 9:57 pm

    OHIO NATIVE, excellent post, and spot on as well. Thanks!

  170. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 10, 2014 6:51 am

    Mike~

    Excellent!!! We could all add thousands more of those truths, THANK YOU! Would love to have a conversation with you privately sometime. Look me up on FB if you are open to it. Glad you are FREE and OUT!

  171. freedomhaha permalink
    April 10, 2014 11:00 am

    Mike- Amen

  172. Vogel permalink
    April 11, 2014 8:27 am

    Kudos Mike. Shout it from the mountain top for all to hear.

  173. Tony permalink
    April 11, 2014 8:55 am

    I’m just waiting for those still in the forest to come to their own defense. We all know that that odds are they will wish they would’ve listened to Mike from the beginning.

Trackbacks

  1. Ten Signs You Are Involved in a Fear-Based Workplace MLM Organization « AMTHRAX
  2. WWDB Triple Diamond Greg Duncan Bankrupt? « AMTHRAX

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