LIFE is the New MLM Business for TEAM… or the next M.L.M Titanic?
From a commenter on my site (with minor spelling corrections):
UPDATE: New LIFE Business:
Soft Launch in August, 2011
Official Launch in October, 2011This NEW LIFE Business is a NEW MLM – Completely separate from Monavie. It will be competing against Monavie which makes me wonder – how well is Monavie DOING in North America? And is Dallin Larsen alright with Team starting a NEW MLM OR maybe Dallin is financing this NEW MLM?? OR maybe Dallin doesn’t know about this NEW MLM??. On the TEAM website a NEW LOS will be created which will be a separate business from the existing TEAM opportunity to earn profit sharing with Monavie. This NEW business will be 100% selling Tools focused around the 8 F’s and will sell these tools to existing Team members, new Team members which are recruited into the MLM and here’s the kicker – to basic customers who want to improve their lifes in any one of the 8 F areas. This is how TEAM plans on growing to 1 million people. This NEW LIFE Business will simply be an MLM which sells motivational material to support your LIFE.
This is very interesting, and it’s further confirmation about what we’ve been talking about on this site for months now. I know that I, along with many ex-TEAM members, will be very interested in seeing how TEAM pulls this off… or doesn’t.
Big question is if TEAM’s current financial ship, MonaVie, is sinking or not. Ironic — though perhaps deliberate — that TEAM uses a big ship’s wheel to describe their LIFE product. “Women and children first” on TEAM? Sadly, I think it’s more “Orrin and Policy Council Members” first and always!
Remember, if you take the F’s out of LIFE, you get LIE. Remember that when you listen to your next Orrin Woodward CD.
If Orrin really is changing the focus of TEAM, it just shows that he has failed in demonstrably measurable ways in bringing financial success to the majority of TEAM’s members. Don’t forget that people joined TEAM in the first place to better their financial lives.
In my opinion, TEAM L.I.F.E. is not the H.M.S Queen Elizabeth II, it’s the M.L.M Titanic!
Anchors away… without TEAM!
Well surprise, surprise, NOT!
Absolutely nothing new~ they may call it a NEW LOS but it’s the same ole LOS they stole from Amway. Lawsuit they tried suing for Amway being a Pyramid scheme, what hypocrisy?! Then lost to Amway when they sued them for raiding their downline~LOS ?
Hmm… So all along they have been an illegal MLM, no? Just teams of people buying their system from themselves-self consuming? Is that why they started calling the people, customers? We already knew that. They have always been a ‘separate business’ we can prove that with our 1099! And have always promoted them-selves as the ‘business opportunity.”
Now they just paid attorneys to stay one step ahead of the law to make them-selves a ‘legal’ MLM? There really isn’t anything new under the sun with these shysters! And now, do they expect all those people to give up their $$ (those making any) that they earned, all that TIME & MONEY wasted,again, trying to ‘sell’ (that alone takes some serious deceptive skill!) for Monavie?
Wonder if they are giving THEIR Monavie income up or do they get to keep theirs? Orrin AGAIN, making everyone’s decisions for ‘your business?’ More money earned & lost for them poor souls? Expecting others to just give it up for them, again! How do these guys sleep at night?
Took them about 15 years to move from the other ‘best business bar none ‘-Amway, then lasted another 3 years to the next greatest (bench marking) business- Monavie. “What about the Healthy, Wealthy,& Wise?LOL
And ALL those obsolete ‘JUNK’ information cd’s that will be throw in the garbage, AGAIN!
This ought to be interesting to watch how long they last without someone else’s product to latch onto and their money backing them!
Should also be interesting how well their lie sells now, it never worked before selling during the ‘6 month no compete’ wait!
Thanks, Cyrstal & Amthrax for sharing.
Interestingly, I got a text from my former sponsor/upline who said he wanted to get together and fill me in on what’s coming down the chute. He didn’t want me to miss out.
I told him I already knew what was coming b/c the internet is a wonderful thing.
He said “I’m sure you do, but firsthand info from Orrin and Claude works best for me.”
So, I told him I’d get together with him and let him explain it all to me. That way maybe I can find out some more details to share with you guys.
The fun never ends.
In this case LOS stands for “Load of Sh*t”. Good grief. Orrin is like an annoying little ” fruit fly that you try to swat away at but keeps reappearing in front of your face. Much like the fruit fly he is a parasite that seems to have no biological function on this planet!
The “women & children” first is sort of a sad commentary on the reality of the situation as I think that women & children are the first to suffer when the husbands become involved in this ridiculous scam.
Not sure that Dallin Larsen would be funding this new “venture” …perhaps we will see a lawsuit against MV much like what occurred with Orrin and Amway…there is no honor among these thieves.
Did anyone see that The Team is offering a Spring Leadership 2011 Highlight DVD? Please tell me that this is free to everyone who attended. They are not taking another opportunity to gouge their reps, are they? Shame on you, Team. More than 8 F’s come to mind when I want to describe you… Freakin’ greedy, Freakin’ low-down, Freakin’ heartless. I do know one ‘F’ that is not part of the Team L.I.F.E… Free.
Also, go to the Team website and you will see the same 6 faces on the front of the website. ‘life’ is good for very few on Team. Those same 6 have been there for around 3 years now.
I tweeted about that highlight album when I saw the @TheTeamBiz tweet at #SPLC11. Pretty low to have people order a DVD from the conference even before the conference was over. But, if you have to get them, get them when they are all motivated and ready to buy more and more tools. What’s another $20, after all? Sad.
Jeff~Welcome! I love your ‘internet is a wonderful thing’ LOL
The ‘first hand info’ from the guru’s and the ‘wouldn’t want you to miss out’: is old as dirt, LOL Bet he can’t wait to tell you, they are going to do what they have always done~manipulate, deceive & con people! But hey he is probably ‘really fired-up’ right now and thought of you-
Humiliated~Thanks for the laughs! I doubt Dallin would be funding it either, but wonder how the ‘lower than a snake’s belly’ is pulling this one off to avoid a lawsuit? But then again he’s had 3 years to manipulate and I know Dallin is repeating their same mantra, Have fun, Make $$$ and lots of it, and Make a difference. You can always tell when Orrin has his hooks in, and the plan is complete it’s “REPEAT AFTER ME!”
So, 20 bucks couldn’t these heartless thieves give it away.. NO! They need their life-style ticket! And how much did that cost to make? .20c
When will it ever end?
Oh one other thing Jeff~he’s probably wanting to add (you) another ‘system’ count to get closer to that ‘directors pittance!’
Ask him how close he is, that ought to add some fun
Beware he’s coming off the ‘high’ from the major, and will use his best ‘stop thinking skills’, they are invincible coming out of that brainwashing event! Ought to be fun, listening to your follow-up!
TOD~ Has it only been 3 years, I thought longer? What happened to those other one’s that made it once, had their day ‘on stage under the bright lights,’ and then oops? I bet the registration had something to do with it, you think?
Funny how NO ONE has moved on, not even those so called leaders guilting everyone else to! This new (same ole) gig~will help them go to a million, lol
I am so glad we are done!
L.I.F.E will F.A.I.L.
In fact, that is the only way I am going to address the Team business from now on. It’s way more accurate.
F.A.I.L. “We create broken dreams and negative cash flow, 1 person at a time”
F.A.I.L. “Going to 1 million people (who will spend more than they make every month for year upon year in hopes of living the dream, while they miss countless events of their kids until finally they are exposed to dangerous amounts of Amthrax and eventually fade away while being labeled loser and quitter by the very people who were their best buddy right up until the moment that they go off of system)”.
TOD~So True & Very Sad.~’exposed to dangerous amounts of Amthrax’ LOL I hope more are exposed~it will open their eyes!
So, much for their promised ‘drop in prices,’ more broken promises? Seems that’s what they are ‘masters’ in broken promises & dreams.
20 bucks is a complete rip-off, there DVD’s used to be 12 bucks, that wasn’t enough profit for them?
Simply money changing hands…from your’s to theirs.
They deserve their ‘spot’ on American Greed!
New Life Business?
More like No Life Business
Yeesh. People who can’t see this for what it is almost deserve to be ridiculed.
Wow, nicely put! I can imagine it takes away from every aspect of your family, life etc!
SJ Barakony
@TEAMRokKaizenSJ Central Ohio w/ other rascals
Own an internet C-Commerce biz -Follow, tweet, or DM me 4 more info. Thrilled to be affiliated with TEAM -offering a vehicle to L.I.F.E. via the 8 F’s.
http://www.the-team.biz/
Found on Twitter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
HAHA i find it VERY funny he said “OWN”. You don’t own sh**t on team and I sure wouldn’t call it a business!! Oh my, more deception!!!
It should say working a very hard, tiring cult, with no life, that Orrin Woodward owns. Want to join so you can make more money for him and his 5 friends and learn how to lie and decieve your friends, family and yourself ? Want to give up your whole life and critical thinking to do it? Call Me.
OK folks… so help me out here. How is this a New MLM, and one that is competing with Monavie? This is exactly what they were doing for the 6 months that they left Amway and went to Monavie! Remember that!? Trying to sell “Leadership” materials to third party companies and other individuals who wanted to “improve their lives”! Is the only difference now going to be that you won’t have to be a profit sharing level to benefit from this new tool MLM? I don’t see how they are going to sell this idea to the masses… let alone their own people who are still probably waiting for the Wal-Mart of the internet….which I’m sure is still in the works LOL!
Punisher~Yes we remember, lol It didn’t work! The thing that rips me is they have been operating as their own entity (raking in millions off the backs of everyone else) since 1999. We heard, that Orrin was putting things in place to make it ‘legal?’
So along HE was operating a Illegal ‘pyramid scheme, ripping people off?
Making promises of ‘passive residual’ blah, that he did NOT keep, not to mention the theft, unethical, and illegal practices they pulled during the registration!
How have they gotten away with it for 12 years!? Maybe the same way Madoff did?
Someone needs to seriously, investigate them!
And the hyposcrisy of suing Amway for being a ‘pyramid scheme!’
I bet the people become EMPLOYEES, instead of ‘independent business owners’ (like that was ever true)!
Wouldn’t that just, frost ya! All those years of BASHING bosses & working for someone else and at the end of your ’45 years (plan)’ you are dead, disabled or dead broke?
Nothing ceases to amaze me @ what they will do for stolen pieces of worth-less silver! GREEDY!
Since there is no real product involved othen than a bunch of self serving nonsense retoric and “tools” of questionale value in the real world, I wonder what the FTC”s and BBB’s views are on this.
Yea and I wonder too and how many REFUNDS will they will give for all those now junk MV/’tools’ that was suppose to build that best business~(bench marking study)? I can’t admit defeat!
Or are they just going to ‘be the end all’ for all the MLM’s out there?(in their narcissitic, dellusional world).
That’s what I would guess they will ‘try’ with their 8-F’s, the only one’s that would fall for it would be the ‘MLM’ hypers, where the MAJORITY lose, who else would buy their lies?
It failed the first time they tried selling it to the general public, I thought they were into learning from their mistakes, no?~lol
I really hope the FTC & BBB does their job to bring down these scammers!
There are way to many victims to count and millions of dollars that have been ripped-off for them to rub in others faces, about their lifestyles!
I just got an email from my former sponsor and this is what it said.
“The business just got cheaper to join so growth is going to excel which means more money for you as you build it.
We are still using MonaVie (who wouldn’t it’s great!) And building the same way just have a few new changes that are really exciting. It’s $175 cheaper to get started, it’s now $122.95 + tax to get started!!!
The most exciting thing about this is that Claude is going to do the Moncton open this tuesday and he’s going to display how to present it now and go into more detail on how it works.
I wanted to send this because I know a bit about what’s coming but would rather you see it from Claude. We hope to see you there this tuesday!”
I wish I could go to hear about it.
I’m sure I’ll get the details sooner or later but that’s a little tidbit about the pricing.
PS – I’m from Canada so the pricing may be a little different.
Thanks for the update, Jeff!
Jeff:
Thanks for the update.
In regards to the new guy attending an open for the first time to see an opportunity… I’m sure once Claude explains the NEW opportuity, the new guy will be questioning, ‘what the heck is this thing… I come to a opportunity meeting to learn about ‘another’ opportuity when I haven’t heard about the first one!!!???’… way-to-go PC
First off great site!
Thank-you all for the REAL education!
After a sleepless week, I have
1. had the plan presented to me,
2. read an introductory book,
3. listened to a couple of CDs, (truly inspirational!)
4. had a follow-up meeting,
5. read another book,
6. listened to three of four more CDs, (truly inspirational!)
7. and finally attended a Saturday Education Session (or whatever it was called.)
My response to the team is No thanks!
“Where is your business plan? No, that is not a business plan. Show me the numbers, give me market research, demographics, target customers. You want me to invest in this business and you cannot provide me these figures.”
Unlimited? You quote McDonalds / Ray Krok, Sam Walton, even Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. All of these guys knew/know they had/have a limited market. There a certain people that will not shop/buy their products.
I think the product sucks. I cannot consciously and with integrity sell juice that costs a minimum of 4X more than a competitive product. It better be at least 4X better. (Does Viagra cost 4X more than Cialis or Celebrex?)
Before getting involved in any new business, be diligent. Any upright business that truly wants you involved will “show you the money.” Share their research with you. Open their books, including their website and let you do your research openly. Yes there are limits to what a prospective company has to show you, but through thoughtful diligence one can determine the correct decision for them. Oh yeah if they approach you to get in as an investor, then they should not put up screens to block you.
I do believe the CDs/books are truly inspirational. I will read more. But I will be going to the library and borrowing books from the top ten selling authors that I recognized before I heard of Brady and Woodward. I guess there is the one good thing the Team has done for me in the eight (now nine) days that I have been involved and that is to renew my vigor for self betterment and improvement and seek out more leadership positions in my community and through my employer.
Thanks again to everyone on here for the support I have gained from your comments in the past week!
Thank you for your detailed story! I’m glad that this website helped you in your decision.
Team Newbie, thanks for your input. Sometimes I wonder if our stories make a difference to anyone? What did you think of the atmosphere? Cult like? Now that I am away from it and can think clearly it seems very Cult like.
Big meeting this weekend in WI. I can only speak for the MKE area, however Friday night from 5:00 PM until 1:00 AM, YIKES! No breaks…Saturday 4:00 PM until….? Not sure as there was no confirmation email. Why do they lock people in a room for hours upon end, with no breaks, etc? I asked about TEAM LIFE, and what is done with the old material, I was told and I quote “IT is an extension of TEAM, so it all builds on one another”. Hmm, I think more brain washing going on? Wow, huge conference in MKE and 2 weeks later a 2 day lock-in? UGH….information coming from the guy I am dating. He is totally hyped now, not able to reason with him much, at the moment.
Team Newbie~
Thanks for great & clear post. Your imput is valuable to all of us and glad to see you found something postive quickly, without losing any money, other than the Saturday event. Glad it only took one for you to move on. Once you have been to one, you could say you have been to them all, because the next one is a repeat of the last one, with a twist of personality difference. And the every cd is just the recordings from those very same events, you already paid to attend. Good luck on your journey.
Teri~
LOL~ you are onto it!
Sorry though, it must be hard for you to watch this.
Same bogus answers for old material, another one is they never get old and are still usable because of the ‘principles’ taught.
Principles.. right, Yea how to decieve & brainwash!
Have fun, hope you have found a new friend to take~a ‘cult expert’
More friends; FTC, BBB, IRS, just a thought
webelieved,
Cult-Like? Yes. But I hate that word, as it conjures up images of JJ and DK. Also Team members could think that I am in a cult-like group because I follow sports closely, or believe in the “slow living movement.” I am passionate and fanatical about these things but I am not cult-like.
They did not like that my wife and I are debt-free and that our real wants in life are not extravagent like they promote. I would rather spend $1500 on a good commuter bicycle than $15,000 on a decent car or the Team Dream of a $150,000 Maserati, Porcshe, etc. They could not understand that a bicycle is a real goal. They think I have just lowered my expetations because of my 9-5 job.
There are three definitions of cult that do apply to Team though. The absolute worship that everyone has for Orrin, Chris, and Claude and there wives. I am sure there are others. I heard several times. Oh I met Claude, we had dinner. Here is a picture of his new (granddaughter??) with me. Orrin is the greatest leader the world has currently. If these people are so great why had I not heard of them before last Friday?
I believe in cheering for people and encourging them, but everyone gets a standing ovation. Where is the special feeling for someone that does something spectacular? I guess anyone that can sell a case of $160 juice has done something spectacular?
My friend was just here to pick up the LIFE book and the four CDs. Very congenial and friendly. If something bad happend in my life and I lost my job and struggled to replace the income and in three weeks, six weeks, three months or six months as they are now promoting they will have more products to offer, I may get on board with them or another MLM. That would be a last resort. I do believe I could make an MLM business succesful for me with time. Time that I cannot afford now with my current situation. For me to join Team there would have to be changes to the organization and the marketing of the product.
I think if you read all the exTeam comments you will stay far far away from the Team no matter what product they have to offer in the future.. In my opinion and others they are unethical at best………deceptive and an illegal pyramid cult at worst….check out the B.I.T.E. model at http://www.freedomofmind.com and look up Eric Schreiblers book Merchants of Deception, a link is listed on EXteam comments I think.
I agree with you on living small. All the material ideas of Team are a lie…. LIe….. Time is most important and you will never get it back with Team. If you will why are Orrin and the rest working still?????? The answer is they always will have to. I know people that are very close to Orrin, he doesn’t spend a lot of time with his kids, he is always working they say.
I also agree it is sad people that really deserve a standing ovation do not get one, but on Team, speakers do. The whole system is set up to make people prideful, to idolize and make them materialistic. To mentor people on every area in life when you are not trained as a counselor, pastor or any other proffesional is ridiculous!!!! And then to use deception and God to keep people believing in the business is immoral!!
Also would you build a business that someone else owns and can take whenever the heck they feel like it? That is what happened to me and many other leaders on Team. Thanks for sharing, hope you continue to share!
Hey here is the link for the Bite model.
http://freedomofmind.com/bite/
also here is a link for a book Merchants of Deception
by Eric Schreibler who was in Amway, it’s free happy reading!
http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/
I added these links to my right-hand sidebar. Please refer people there in the future. Let me know how else I can improve the organization of this web site, since there has been so much content and comments being generated over the past several months.
webelieved,
“Time is most important…”
How can they tell us that you will be able to spend more time with our families? I guess I have to wait 2, 5, 8 years. My friends, when they were here picking up the CDs and book were on their way to a Business Launch. WTH! So let’s see Friday night, Men’s night, 3+ hours. Sat = Rare session, 6+ hours. Sun = business launch,? Their young teen son is looking after his two younger brothers again tonight, ages under 10 and a toddler. Where is the family time? Both parents work full time M-F 9-5. All in the hope that one day they will be able to spend the rest of their days with them? I only hope and pray for them that they will not be ripped off of any business they have built, like you were. More so, I hope they recognize the error of their ways.
How can this organization still be regarded as a legitimate business? Stealing business from hardworking members that “earned” and paid their dues to try to succeed. I know from personal experience and have seen that business is a dog-eat-dog-world. But when you are in a “Community” that they tout, if one succeeds then all succeed. When one fails then all fail. Obviously they have changed the statement to suit them. When one succeeds, the upline succeeds more. When the upline fails, those in the downline that are succeeding will fail. How can this be a TEAM?
Thanks for the links.
Another thing If you wouldn’t mind I would like to make a recommendation… If you want to help your friend reading Combatting Cult Mind Control will help you.
It’s by Steve Hasan of freedom of mind. It will help you help them with their thinking. It helped me to finally see what I was dealing with. Guilt, Manipulation, Coercion, Deception, Heresey. I was very indoctrinated and dependent on Team. I couldn’t think for myself very well. I remember feeling very guilty for watching a movie or listening to the radio in the car. I should be listening to a cd. They tell you to listen to 3 or 6 a day. There is a reason for that. You will find answers in Steve’s book. I hope you can set their thinking free. Good luck!! One word of warning do not attack head on, it will wreck your chance, read the book first. I am SO GLAD TO BE FREE!!! Please keep us posted how they are doing.
Another thing is I would definitly get their boys opinion on the whole deal. There will be a few good things but I bet he doesn’t like it, and wonders where his parents went. Kids are smart. They have good instincts. He probably needs someone to talk to about it I would guess. His parents I am sure think they are doing the right thing and helping the family. Oh just reading about him breaks my heart.
There is an article on MLM Punisher link to right
Tuesday, April 5, 2011The World’s Largest Bathroom Wall
He shows how they teach to handle objections of the negative internet (like us) lol.
It will help anyone understand what they will be thinking if you bring up this info. Thanks Punisher great post!
I saw the post that they had another meeting Sat and Friday night in MKE and they just had a major two weeks ago I think was their as well???Wow they must be desperate!!! That is hilarious, I guess they gotta keep em busy or they need to make more money. Anyone know how much they charged for this one and who kept the money??? I will ask again what business that is legitimate keeps you in meetings all the time?? over and over, either the Team business is really hard to build that you need so much training ?? Or their training is really inadequate and sucks and that is why you need to continue to be trained over and over..? Or Team is a cult and they need to indoctrinate you using up all your time and exhaust you so you cannot resist their undue influence messages, just like the moonies? Or they need to continue to brainwash and decieve you to keep you believing in someday so you keep spending your money on the tools?? Or most of the leaders money comes from selling cds and books to you over and over?? What do you all think???? Maybe we should have a poll Amthrax but we need to pick multiple answers I think.
webelived~
That is hilarious but good points!
So how much did people have to pay this month alone?
Back to having a major and semiar in one month, pretty costly especially when the 99% never make a profit!
Glad we are keeping our money and freedom of minds!
Glad to hear that our questions, comments, ranting, comments, humor and sarcasm helped at least one person to see that the “light at the end of the tunnel” was really the headlight of an approaching train.
Speak- very good point. Ah yeah a repeat. I used to get so mad that I would pay for the same seminar on cd that i just attended witth the SAME INFO. It is sad that they got me to buy in that their was SOME SECRET I HADN’T HEARD YET, BUT I WOULD HEAR AT THE NEXT MEETING. I was busting my butt and doing the work but it wasn’t going as fast as I thought it should. Then the old……. you need to develop to the next leadership level talk would come from my upline! It is a neccesity for Team to make people feel like they are less then and not leaders so they can sell the tools and cover up Team attrition. The fact is it is build and replace and at least 6 out of 10 will quit within a month of getting started on Team and I would say another 2 would quit usually within 6 months so IF you are lucky you may have 2-3 stay long term and I would say for most that is a generous number……and then the majority of them will not make money, but they will support the tiny minority that make money!!! So build and replace. If the business was so good why do they quit? They went to a seminar, they got on system?????? Oh that is right it is because I needed more leadership training!!!!! Funny my friends in real life don’t quit on me, I don’t need leadership training for them. I must not be that bad?? LOL. Maybe there is a flaw in the Team business??????? Maybe that is the real reason they quit!!!! Building Team is like spinning plates, eventually they are going to crash, especially if you take a rest.
I have changed my name as I am no longer associated with the Team.
Thanks for more links webelieved.
I think that they are having so many meetings because in a few weeks they will be launching L.I.F.E. I know the book is already out, but it sounds like in the coming weeks or months they we will be launching more products to offer, based on L.I.F.E. I expect that it will be called LIFE brand or similar. (I am speculating that this is the brand name based on “hints” that were dropped to me by several members.)
On our second meeting with my friends and mentor I advised them that I was not interested in selling Monavie. I laid out my reasons and they accepted. After they told me how much healthier they were because of it they told me that they are not really here to talk to me about MV. They are to make me a leader! Blah! Blah! Blah!
Then the mentor told me that at the last Major, Orrin mentioned that in the coming three weeks the Team will have aligned with other suppliers and the Team will be able to offer more products. He, (of course) could not tell me what products they are as there are legal matters that need to be resolved. He then went on to talk more about the way the plan “really” works. “You get out of it what you put into it.”
After the Sat seminar I told them that this was not for me, but I did say “When you have the other products available in a few weeks call me and present these products to me.” If there is something that catches our attention, I will look at it again. My friend said that the launch is expected in three months and they will contact me then. Did you say “months”? Why did the mentor tell me “weeks.” My friend said, that the mentor must have really meant “months.” As I was walking to my vehicle I passed another member having a smoke. He asked what I thought. I was honest and told him maybe with more products. He said that in that case we’ll see each other again just before the X-Mas shopping season. (Quick math in my head) Thanksgiving is six months away. They probably want to launch in time for X-Mas so six months.
What is up? Three separate people have told me three different dates for the launch of the new products. Are they really trying to bring more products into their offering? Orrin you better get your story straight, because your followers are spreading mixed messages.
I am located in Canada, so they will have a difficult time launching here under the LIFE brand as there is already a nationwide drug store chain (Shopper’s Drug Mart ) that brands their store brand products “LIFE.”
webelieved,
Combatting Cult Mind Control – the synopsis has made me think more about the Team as a true cult.
I explained yesterday that I did not want to view them as a cul. I feared that I could be viewed as being in a cult because of my fanatical ways about sports and slow living.
However, another thing struck me about cults that is not in the definition on dictionary.com. That is mind control. No TV. The best authors and the true leaders in this world are Team leaders. The messages that you must listen to, to succeed in this organization are delivered only by the leaders of the Team.
Wow, where is the opportunity for members to view other ideas and form their own opinions? I was always taught by my mentors, weather personal or professional to have a broad base of experiences. This will make me a whole person.
By controlling what the members hear, watch, and do, I can almost compare the people at the top of this organization to Hitler. Hitler burned books so as to not allow people to read about other beliefs. Orrin and the others are basically telling his members to burn others books.
Maybe I am wrong, but that is my opinion.
Team Newbie (not)- I am glad you can see it. It is truly follows the protocols of cults. You are not allowed to have free thoughts and opinions. They higher up you get the worse it is. It is really scary. It is done slowly so you can accept it in little bits. If people knew it all in the begining they would run! I am glad you could see it. I didn’t want to believe it either but once I read the book I knew what happened to me. I was so brainwashed. I am soooo glad to be FREE of the pressure to be another Orrin. Oh boy they are so prideful!!!! They stripped us of our critical thinking. Once you have invested so much money and brought people in you are trapped financially but really mentally. They tell you to mentor with your upline on everything even when to have kids, how to school your kids, when to take vacations, you need to report in or you’ll be snubbed, I could go on and on. Your upline is supposedly an expert in every area in life, what a joke!! If you leave Team you will feel you have nothing to look forward to
( because of the indoctrination) ….. at least at first but then you realize you had nothing when you were with Team. It took awhile to think for myself, lose the guilt and recover my true self again. I forgot who I really was.I am happy to say I have much deeper meaningful relationships with friends and family since I left Team, my life is much more healthy, relaxed and happy.I am living my true priorities now. I definitly wasn’t while I was on the Team!!! Oh it makes me so happy you can see it!!!
Hi guys, I haven’t been around for quite a while, but I looked back, to see 2 people get to this website before actually joining TEAM, shows that Amthrax is doing a good job!!
Team Newbie (Not) – it is definitely a cult, they literally make you change your way of thinking, big time. It’s like your personality changes, especially when you’re around other TEAM members. Freaky. I see that big time in my ex-upline. Since I left TEAM, nobody from TEAM contacts me because I warned them to get out. I’ve lost friendships when I left the organisation. I know a few have blocked my emails. I’m glad you’ve decided to get out quick…you really have to be heartless if you’re going into this type of organisation.
Teri – It may be devastating to see your boyfriend get into this scheme, but when his emotions are being played upon, it’ll be hard to get him out. Either he’ll be so fired up that he’ll have to hit rock bottom before he wakes up or the hype will die off as interest wanes. Let’s hope and pray it’s the latter!
I always hated hearing that line of BS about waiting for a new product to come out. And to hear more about the product you had to attend a SECRET MEETING which was more hype never details.
Maybe the new product they are launching is the TEAM SHAKER WEIGHT. Which is similar to the 1 seen on SOUTH PARK. The only difference being. Instead of giving you money for cab fare. You put money in to hear how AMAZING you are. LOL
Got this tweet from a round table member today. Here’s the first peek at the new mlm.
http://livingforexcellence.com/
I was involved with team and did not like monavie. When i heard about the launch of L.i.f.e. I knew this is what Orrin has been saying about taking mlm to the next level. For all those who left negative comments, just because you had a bad experience or did not succeed does not mean The Team is bad. The information they teach is from books written by top leaders like john maxwell. I have joined other mlm companies and nothing can compare to the Team and how well organized and informational they are. For those making negative comments and typing paragraphs go do something with your life instead of watching others do something with theirs. If your not happy with your life then do something about it. It doesnt have to be an mlm. Network marketing is not for everyone!!!
Change your life- OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVEN’T READ ALL THE COMMENTS on this site!
You teamers come here and make fools of yourselves by repeating once again the TEAM Rhetoric garbage!
Please read all the comments under Ex-Team Comments! I feel sorry for you because I believed all the same crap you said at one time. Not anymore! In my experience close to Orrin, he is a liar and a theif ! Do your homework, we did the work and made it, now for your sake, go read the rest of the story!
P.S. I am very happy with my life! It is the best it has ever been!
I am here because God has given me a moral obligation to tell the truth of my experience with Team. To give warning to others of the wolf in sheep’s clothing! If you don’t want to take warning, oh well that is your choice.
By the way it may help you to read Merchants of Deception, it is free download on the right.
Changeyourlife;
You started off ok in your post, and then as almost all of you present Team members, started ranting about how we make negative comments, have nothing better to do with our lives, and are very unhappy with our current situations. You like many others (myself included at one time) make some wonderful assumptions about how blogs like this get started. Do you or anyone else think it warms our hearts as we continue to go through such lengths to tell the otherside of the story? How is it that you can come on here and completely disregard what has been posted here and on other blogs with your opinions? You see there is a difference between facts and opinions. If you want to come back in the future please have some facts to back you up. Otherwise we bid you farewell, and good luck with L.I.F.E.
Steve Great comments.
changeyourlife~ Seriously? Do I read you are TRYING to tell others what to do with their lives?Who died and left you in charge? You my friend need to come back to earth, should do yourself a favor, and find someone else to give your ‘orders.’ That’s not going to fly here.
You might want to try that in the team enviroment that is the dictatorship you are looking for!
But I doubt You will make it happen there either, they will be ‘ordering’ you.
Did you forget we LIVE in a FREE COUNTRY?
LHOL!
I am starting to get sick and tired of the same old Team speak from those who think they know more than those who have been through this for many years. I know that we were all in the same boat at one time, but the facts couldn’t be anymore clearer than they are now. Don’t get me riled up I won’t be so nice next time. Lol
Steve~ LOL I was thinking the same thing! It is irrating especially when they never say NOTHING new. The worse kicker is he actually tired to ‘educate’ us on what the team ‘teaches’; like his statement about John Maxwell books. It just makes you shake your head and go REALLY, I never knew that. Seriously, did he even read ONE post? LHOL
What do you have to offer me and my family that even comes close to the TEAM approach.
GET A LIFE !
Orrin Woodward and TEAM have been around for nearly 20 years. In that long span of time, how many people on TEAM are job optional? Think of the tens of thousands of people who have gone through the TEAM approach. Why aren’t there more financial success stories? Quite frankly, the TEAM system simply does not work.
What do I have to offer you? Let’s count up the 8F’s:
Amthrax~ Awesome post, couldn’t have said it better!
Wonder if Mickey Mouse will take your advice, LOL
BTW~ Mickey, team approach is just the method of which they build, hows that working out for ya? How many people you got in on your ‘team approach?’ LOL
So how isTeam any different from any other MLM business opportunity when it comes to the uplines and conferences and the “cult-like” quality of it all. From the posts here, you could say many of these things about Amway, or any other MLM bus. for that matter. I was just introduced to Team the other day, and while I know MLM businesses aren’t for me in general, I didn’t see anything in it that alarmed me (i.e. pushiness of the leader, encouraging you to look at your dreams, etc.). I figure anyone can succeed in these if they go about it the right way and really believe in the product. So how is Team so bad compared with others? There are always critics of MLM in general. Does this mean it can’t work? Obviously it can work. Maybe not for the majority, but for many.
Actually Rhonda, the mathematical probability of success is dismal at best, and although you may be right in saying “anyone can succeed in these things”, any one person’s success would come at the loss of over 95% of the people in their team. So I believe for you to say “many” can succeed is a gross overstatement of the reality of MLM compensation mathematics.
http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/preliminary-life-compensation-plan-analysis/
wow – this has been very helpful to me. I was approached by a LIFE team member 3 weeks ago & invited to a satellite broadcast. When I questioned her as to what it was all about, she hesitated & told me that it was confusing to explain but that the broadcast would help me to understand. At the time warning flags came up in my brain – the business she was involved in was too complicated for her to explain to me?? But I had told her that I would go to the meeting, so I did. Driving over I was rehearsing in my mind how I was going to explain to her that this was not for me (I was expecting some kind of pyramid type business, even tho she had not said this to me). I will admit that I was a bit drawn in by the speakers on the broadcast…..altho at times I got the feeling that I was watching a late night infomercial. It didn’t help that another friend of mine, who I really do respect, was there & had already signed up to be a part of the team a couple of months before. I was given the cd’s & book to go over while at the meeting. I listened to the cd’s the next couple of days & was caught up in the stories….especially the thought of financial freedom. But in the back of my mind there were still warning flags waving. For example, did I really want to live the lifestyle that they were promoting? How noble was that ? How was helping my community? After a couple of days I got a call asking if I could meet so that I could get signed up. I was so close to doing it….but something kept making me hesitate. So I went to 2nd meeting this week. The first thing that irritated me was that I had to pay to go this next meeting. Then I was irritated that the information was almost the exact same thing that I had heard the first time- was I really going to be expected to pay each week to hear the same info regurgitated over & over? Then they announced that there was going to be a special Friday night broadcast where you would get to hear Orrin – what the heck, I thought. More money to pay? More time away from my family? I ended up leaving the meeting this week early. My mentor or whatever you call the person who told me about the business was to get with me today to sign me up. All night I slept fitfully – I would wake up & try to convince myself that this was going to be a good thing for my family. All day it bothered me. I finally decided to simply not show up for my meeting in order to buy myself some more time. Then I decided tonight to see what I could find out on the internet about LIFE. Am I ever glad that I did. I know now that this is not going to be our ticket to freedom. We already have freedom. Thank you so much for helping me clear this up in my mind. Blessings!
@almostgotme! Thank you for sharing your story. You correctly identified that the meetings are the same thing over and over again. You saw that you’ll have to start paying for each meeting (after your first), and that you’ll be spending more of your time away from your family. Good for you!
Almostgotme! – I will add they can take your business whenever they want according to LIfE’s Policies and Procedures. You will be taken into arbitration if you don’t like it, for life, wether you quit or not. We and others had our incomes and teams taken from us approved by Orrin himself, after years of work and years of being promised a passive, residual income. It is a LIE! We were involved with team for YEARS, did meetings, spoke across the country. We did the work and were screwed. Be aware they will lie about this site and slander us to get you to get involved.
I would recomend you run!
Very wise decision.
Almostgotme!- Be sure to read the LIFE PRIMER at the top right and recommend it to your friends. I was wondering was it hard to find this site? Team leaders are gaming google to get this site buried. They started a bunch of blogs recently to keep any critical information from prospects. It was reported to be ordered by the top and we watched it happen. Who does this in the real world? Did you find anything odd about the meeting or the people? I would love to hear your perspective.
I found this site by googling “LIFE (the team) – is it a pyramid scheme” & then I scrolled down thru the offerings until I saw this one & knew I had found what I was looking for.
I was at a very small meeting in a home where we watched the satellite broadcast. You listen to a husband/wife team for an hour, take a 10 minute break, then another hour with another husband/wife team. During the 10 minute break, I asked the people how this was not a pyramid scheme. They immediately pulled out a white board & drew me a picture of a pyramid scheme & then a picture of the legs or something like that. They emphasized that this is my business, that I am the one benefiting, not them. Then why do they care at all if I do it or not? If it looks like a pyramid scheme & smells like a pyramid scheme, then it probably is a pyramid scheme. I will say this about the audience watching the speaker (the audience that we could see on the screen). I felt great sadness for them. They looked like people who needed to find some answers for handling debt, costs of living, etc. & I knew that this was not going to be the answer for most of them…..despite all of the applauding & standing ovations!
Almostgone, seeking outside information was very wise. I know it is hard to believe your guy was right. You saved yourself from years of frustrations and financial strain. great job!!!
Interesting. ? though. Can a new member not build his own team and then that team get together to read not only the LIFE/LLR books as well as others that are not recommended by LIFE but that I could recommend. I believe in helping people but also know people can still succeed and be happy in their ordinary jobs and spend time with their kids and build a nest egg. Will LIFE up liners not let you do this?
Just to calrify I would have never joined team when they were pushing Monavie. This new product of the 8 F’s and the LLR subscription series is interesting and I believe one can get something out of it to improve their lives. I own my insurance agency and understand teh power of residual income so I did join the TEAM yet I am only a week into it and after reading the posts from before the new launch, I can see now in this new model that the goal is to keep people on subscriptions and also bring in people that will go out and bring others in to be subsrcibers and be part of the community team. This can be a powerful tool but the idea of getting rich a financal free needs to be toned down a bit. I am not into the big stadium type group rah rah meetings and that part turns me off. I started my own insurance agency so I could spend more time with my kids and the idea of going to all these weekend functions is not my idea of what I am going to want to do. The once a week nightly meetings in my community and sharing ideas and principles and how you can apply them in your lives and businesses I do believe is very valuable and I am willing to spend $50 per month simply for that and to receive a book a month. Not sure what the books will be yet but I suspect they are all not bad. Ya I could get these at a book store on my own and start my own community/book club to discuss the ideas in these books to better our lives but I am interested and introgued by the business side of it and potential for a little passive income. I did not get into this with the idea of leaving or selling my agency as I would never do that and I am in the process of replacing myself within the agency so as to spend more time doing what is important to me all the while maintaingin my income from my customer book of business becasue I provide a product that is required by law is some respects (Work comp in CA), general laiblity and other types of policies ie; Homeowners and personal auto that people will cut last if things get tough. I hear the naysayers but believe that you can’t look to this as a means to the end of working and that you will be financially free. I see it as a personal and business growth tool within a community of like minded individuals all striving to improve their lives and businesses as well. Am I missing something here? Thanks for the replies.
What I think you are missing is team has for YEARS and is still promoting itself as the business, the way to have residual income, and yet they have stolen from their own leaders who built that supposed residual income! They are only telling part of the story and have been using deceptive business practices for years before they renamed themselves LIFE. I would say that is what you do not know if you are new.
I would recommend you read the new LIFE PRIMER at the top right of this site. There is a long list of articles and comments there. Orrin Woodward, George Guzzardo and it looks like Tim Marks have stolen from their own leaders after the leaders spent years of building communities of people still using the team system and LIFE, on the promise of a residual income!
They don’t quite practice what they preach!
IN other words these communities are still using team materials and yet the leaders who had a part in bringing them and training them are no longer being paid their residual incomes!! Residual income on Team LIFE is a LIE, and actually probably illegal to claim. It even tells you in the LIFE Policies and Procedures TEAM LIFE can take your income and teams whenever they want for whatever reason! You own nothing and have no legal recourse if they do due to lifetime arbitration with them in charge it seems! Read it in the LIFE Primer. People are being lied to and misled! IT is DISCUSTING!
Tim Marks sent a text message to Mike and Christie Raatz that they were voted out of Team Profit Sharing, the residual income they earned after building their communities/business for @ around a decade, because they asked about how they were being paid! It is important to note they were very good friends with the Marks!
Some residual income that is, NOT!
Don’t risk your time or good reputation believing liars!
We had a business with a good reputation prior to Team, gave it up after we earned a so called residual income with Team, then had it stolen after we stopped attending Team functions because Team leadership did unethical, possibly illegal things! Our reputation in our community has been tainted from the slander we’ve had perpetrated on us by people that stayed in Team and the PC.
In my experience, involvement in Team isn’t good for business or churches in the long run! Starting a book club, joining a church etc is much better as there is freedom of ideas, creativity and information and no deception used in that.
Webelieve- I really appreciate your honest comments here. I also thank you for the warnings and I think I will confront some of the higher ups in our group here and ask about these things you speak of. If this is true then I definately would not want to even have a chance of jeopardizing my or my families reputation in the community which I have worked hard to establish since we moved here 6 years ago. I intend fully on keeping and growing and if what you say is true and there this possibitlity then I have to take it into consideration. I would never want to put anyone I know and respect into that situation either of false promises or unclear business practices. Freedom of speech and independent thinking is what makes this country great, not the following of a few “quote unquote” leaders by thousands that can’t think for themselves. They definately have some explaining to do. I will let you all know what they say when confronted about the Raatzs and the possibility of this being stripped from others. I started my own agency to be able to spend more time with my kids and this past year have had more time for family than ever before. If I am forced to attend functions and pushed out if I don’t then I want no part of that. My weekends are more important to me now and forever. I could put plenty of time in a few nights a week to not have to spend entire weekends on this business. As I said before, I am not seeing and or got into this to replace my income but to only add to it but really to read the materials and be within a group that talks about the materials and helps each other apply it in their businesses and lives. That I still think could be a positive and advantageous thing about TEAM LIFE. Will check back with ya’ll.
Mo- You can also ask about John Morgan Triple 100/RT, Tom Cullen Triple 100, Raquel Peters RT, Mike and Christie Raatz (RT?). All people who did the work and who had their Team residual incomes stolen! I am sure there are more. How about Ron Day? How could they be promised residual income for years by Orrin and Team, do the work to build their communities and than have it unfairly taken after working their butts off, many 6 days a week, leaving their families for years? I would never want my name associated with a company that was falsly promoting itself and that unethical!
You could also ask them and yourself, why would Pastor Dickie, Orrin’s pastor, (a man who for years was recorded on cds and promoted across Team as Orrin’s mentor)Orrin’s friends Matt Abraham an attorney and Don Freeze, Bobbie Dickie former Team office CEO, Ben Dickie and other office workers, and Kevin Thompson former Team Attorney and a bunch of other leaders all leave Orrin Woodward and Team?
All these people couldn’t have integrity issues or whatever b.s. they are lying about, but they do all have Orrin in common!
Mo, I am happy that you find the materials useful and motivational to you. If it is worth $50 to you then I wouldn’t suggest you do not stop purchasing them. You are a consumer, and have every right to use your dollars in whatever manner you see fit.
It does seem ironic to me that you would give creedence to the training if 1/10th of what is exposed on this blog is true. If any of these things are true, the bankruptcies, stolen teams, back-door deals, shell corporations, loans from MLM companies, compensation mathematics, anonymous blogging, manufactured accolades, hypocrisy, and lies, wouldn’t that negate anything positive that you could hope to gain? As Mark Twain so simply stated in Huckleberry Finn, “You can’t pray a lie”. If anything contained within the walls of this blog is true, run.
There are no gray areas here Mo, either the people on this blog are correct, and Orrin and Life is one of the biggest shams of all time, or the people on this blog are blatant liars. It is totally up to you to figure that out, and be wise because you obviously have a reputation riding on this decision.
I think your approach is noble, why not continue getting together in groups and discussing the principles that will make a difference in peoples lives. There are groups all around America who meet on a regular basis to discuss these principles. A friend of mine belongs to a group called CEO space who meets regularly and brainstorms together about how they can each improve their own individual businesses and leadership. But for goodness sake be careful of who and what you are promoting.
All I can say Mo is be very wise in this decision. Ask the right questions, and seek the information that normal folks are too shy or afraid to ask. Dig deep and get some real answers. Good luck.
Here is a list of people who appear to be gone from Team, part of which i copied an updated from EX TEAM Commenting On Their Experience with Woodward. Be sure to understand these are top income earners and leaders in Team who were with Team for years, some for over a decade. Most would’ve been turbo 25 and above to over Triple 100′s in Team.
Profit Sharers:
Brian and Julie Rodman
John and Janelle Brost
Pat and Lisa Semple
Ben and Beth Prescher
Doberstein
John Croening
Steve Boyer
Vicki Newbauer
RT Members:
Jeff and Barb Granger
Mark and Raquel Peters
Dan and Daniel Abraham
Greg Rau
Tom Cullen
John & Melanie Morgan
Matt and Sheryl Abraham
Don and Chris Freeze
Mike and Christie Raatz
PC Members who left Team:
Randy & Val Haugen – PC
Billy & Peggy – PC
Mark Crawford – PC
Lance Smith – PC
Chuck Goetschel – PC
Team Office:
CEO – Bob Dickie
Chief Legal Counsel – Kevin Thompson
Bob Cassidy (another executive at the office)
Orrin’s Mentor/Pastor:
Pastor Dickie
Maybe everyone can add to the list of Profit Sharers and others who are gone? I added from the Morgan’s downline, did I miss any?
Mo- There has to be good reason all these successful leaders would no longer be involved in Team, no?
Why would one walk away from residual income?
Truthseeker- Great post.
There are hundreds from Team West who left and are no longer part of Legacy as well. Many, many profit-sharers and Q-12 Quixtar qualifiers. We could literally create a list with 500 people on it if we chose to. Wouldn’t that be fun?
The means can’t justify the end. Their are using good quality time tested principles to manipulate and promise years of residual income. I do not care how good the meetings might be if you are talking about good principles, they exist to keep the cash flow flowing to the top “team players”…period!!! They always say that everyone has the same opportunity, and that may be true……….but they do not all have the same chance………there is a difference. The stuff on here is true and the sources have experience it both first and second hand. Orrin knows it but will NEVER admit it. Jus like he never admitted fault in the Q lawsuit. He lied under oath and on his blog repeatedly……….If people can’t see that then they should sell their souls and stick with team. There are many ways to get what the team supposedly offers……..their community is not going to change anything because at the root they are about their lifestyles not changing anything.
Mo you are either for them or agains them. All they will ever try to do is to get you to get people to subscribe to their 8 f program. On the surface it sounds good, but how can they push principles they all violate to a high degree everyday? All their information is available in other places without the corruption of the team. They will press you to get your whole office on system, not to better them but to up their incomes. They would never have done the things they have done of they lived their 8f’s. In the end you will make your own decisions but trust that they will befriend you as long as you are an asset. They are not qualified in the things they promote, their are enough horror stories on here as proof. I made another friend that was in a different team than mine. He and his wife were told to put his mother in a home because the time they were spending taking care of her in her final months and days of her life were interfering with them building their team business. That is the sickest most vial thing I have ever heard of someone doing. The sicker part is they as team have criticized corporate America for doing what they recommended this couple do. They are animals at times………
I got a really nasty reply…
Hi Rob,
I completely understand your feelings and concerns and actually commend you on your concern for your good friends Vic and Cindy. Certainly no hard feelings here, would love to pick up the stuff tomorrow while I’m over there if that’s possible?
Thanks!
Leslie
p.s. I would love to speak with the authors of the material you sited in those website sources, can you arrange a meeting?
The two blogs on the left side of this email are done by friends of mine, if you’d like to mix in some facts feel free.
Have a great night!
to a no thank you after a presentation. Can anybody email her? She wants feedback. thank you!
[Editor's note: email removed]
or ALL of you????
@Rob – If Leslie wants to get in touch with me, just direct her to my website and/or have her leave a comment on one of the many posts here.
Rob- I guess court documentation doesn’t count for facts for her? Interesting….
Team brainwashing at it’s finest.I especially like the “if you’d like to mix in some FACTS”…more likely, “read this if you’d like to hear more facts….I meanTeam rhetoric, I mean regurgitation of lies”, lol !
Welcome and thanks for commenting.
I was wondering how you found this site, and what are your thoughts on the group, looking from the outside in?
What are the Amthrax Nation’s thoughts on Troy Dooly’s latest youtube videos regarding Orrin and LIFE? (youtube.com/troydooly)
Also, why not post responses both on this site and under his video(s)?
LIFE is a TEAM sport. Fired up.
Troy’s b.s. doesn’t suprise me as he is most likely pimping his services out for pay in some way from Orrin…..go figure.. perhaps a special spot at the top on the LIFE l.o.s. tree, or direct pay from the team office for his public relations services….what a joke! Orrin has to do something fast…..I would guess he is sinking fast.
Which side of the fence are you on Billy? Just wondering…
I read Troy’s feeble attempt at debunking this article and once again he doesn’t fail to at least amuse us with his faulty, forced logic that fails to sound even remotely coherent. I mean, come on Troy if you’re going to sound off like an expert how about learning some basic grammar and writing skills.
He starts off by saying in print: “First off I want to be perfectly clear, I love and read Forbes consistently! However, in reviewing the Forbes article titled “Climb To The Top”, about Orrin Woodward, Amway, Monavie and Network Marketing aka
Multi-Leval (sic) Marketing, I found it biased, and the information either provided to lead the readers to a predetermined outcome.”
What was that Troy? “the information EITHER provided to lead the readers………?” Again……What?
Another one of the numerous stupid things he said is this little gem on the video at the 1:40 mark: He quotes the Forbes article as saying “Team is one step ahead of all these juice selling schemes. It is a pyramid atop a pyramid”
He goes on to comment: “which is totally wrong. If anything it would be a pyramid beside a pyramid NOT on top of a pyramid, so they didn’t even get THAT right. But if it was a pyramid atop a pyramid and everybody is making money then again, it isn’t a pyramid scheme they’re two sales organizations working together.”
About half way down the page in print he quotes the article in question then has this note posted below it:
“This statement in and of itself is accurate. But the implication made by the reporters is inaccurate. To be classified as a pyramid, an organization would have to take money and not provide anything of value.”
So which is it Troy?
This is nothing but incoherent double talk which about sums up Troy’s debating capabilities.
These are just two examples of Troy’s complete incompetence in debating or debunking anyone that holds any view of MLM that runs contrary to his. His article is full of irrelevant facts that do nothing to debunk what the Forbes article is about.
Orrin, are you sure you want this guy (the same guy that promotes Christian nymphos on his personal website, at least he did take down the link selling sex toys) to attempt to repair your reputation? I think your money would be spent better elsewhere.
Freaking Amazing coming from a guy who admittingly claims he is biased himself!
What ‘audience’ or who does he think he has convinced, of these feeble inane attempts? These guy’s never cease to amaze me at how stupid and gullible they must believe people are! They say it….and others are suppose to say…yes master…pfft.
The only time my brother in law calls is when he wants to sell me something. My favorite part is where the team claims to share conservative values and simultaneously victimizes people to get their money and uses empty bandwagon rhetoric to rally the troops. So much for having a mind of your own.