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TEAM/LIFE Leadership Conference in Columbus, Ohio

October 24, 2012

The next TEAM/LIFE leadership conference is happening in just under four days at the OSU Jerome Schottenstein Center in Columbus, Ohio. There hasn’t been as much hyperbole surrounding the event this year, even though it’s the big one-year anniversary of LIFE. This post by Lisa Hawkins got me thinking though (bold emphasis mine):

I’m sure that most of you share in my excitement and anticipation about the upcoming LIFE business leadership conference that takes place in Columbus, Ohio in exactly 4 days! Can you believe that we are only 4 days away from celebrating the one year anniversary of the launch of LIFE? We are 4 days from seeing all of our friends from around the world where belief is at it’s best, new tools for building our business are released, and we are able to spend an entire weekend bonding with our fellow team mates.

Why bonding? Where else do you have an opportunity to ride in a vehicle for hours sharing experiences of flat tires, roadkill, and getting lost yet again in Gary, Indiana? Would any other group of people be okay bunking up with 6 or 8 adults in one hotel room? We must break every fire code when we stay at hotels!

Should we take Lisa’s words literally? Do TEAM/LIFE groups really pack them in six to eight at a time in a single hotel room? Isn’t that kind of cheating the hotel out of money they would received for additional room reservations? Does Lisa know what would happen if the hotel were to find out that this was happening? How would Hawkins (inc. Orrin Woodward and the other Policy Council members) like it if those on her team combined to have 6-8 people share one system each month?1

Looking at TEAM’s listing on BlockMeIn (the service they use for hotel reservations), you’ll note that two hotels (the ones closest to the convention center) are currently sold out:

Holiday Inn Express & Suites OSU
3045 Olentangy River Drive
Columbus, OH 43202
(614) 447-1212
Distance to venue: 1.17 miles

Springhill Suites by Marriott-Columbus OSU
1421 Olentangy River Road
Columbus, OH 43212
Distance to venue: 1.79 miles
(614) 297-9912

Anyone want to call these hotels to warn them that there might be violations of their room policies this weekend?


1 This question was suggested by @No Team For Me.

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85 Comments leave one →
  1. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 24, 2012 5:21 am

    @Amthrax: O.M.G. is all I can say. I simply cannot believe what comes out of the mouths of those two.

    Now: in just a matter of weeks to a few months, we’ve got them saying you’ve likely pissed your pants in fear if you don’t buy into the program and will smell of it, and now hee hee hee (Llis’a attitude) you break fire codes–but to even joke about it is in bad taste. In the past, they’ve uttered: don’t listen to naysayers because they’re likely broke, etc., too. This is leadership???? This is sucess for life????? Sweet Jehosephat—get me to a barroom, then, because I’d likely learn more from a philosophical bartender.

    It’s a frank business model-for-success abomination, actually. If I were a bonafide business, I’d be afraid to even book Woodward on his own merit if I knew he was backing and condoning such juvenile behavior. I mean, even if we set everything else aside—to act like the court jester telling secrets snickers about breaking fire codes?!! How many times have I hollered that Orrin needs to put a clamper on Dan—-well, I guess he better get a clamp out for the wifey, too Perhaps those two need to go take courses that proved REAL leadership skills.

  2. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 24, 2012 5:23 am

    Oh, I forgot one: just recenty, Hawkins also retweeted that just by virtue of poverty, one will steal and commit murder, etc. HOW STUPID ARE THOSE TWO? AND HOW STUPID IS ORRIN TO KEEP THEM AT THE TOP OF THE WISCONSIN MUCK FACTORY?

  3. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 24, 2012 6:07 am

    Pretty funny, that is EXACTLY what happens at Leadership Conventions! Tons of people pile in rooms, the sleep under tables, on the floor! Poor people lie, steal and cheat according to Dan, but I guess cheating a hotel is/was ok for Team leaders and/or their teams? Another inconsistency between Team’s teaching and Team leaders’ behaviors…..
    Also- FYI the Team makes money/perks off the hotels they are selling rooms for, just like a travel agent.

  4. No Team For Me permalink
    October 24, 2012 6:10 am

    I find it interesting that they encourage people to sleep 6-8 in a hotel and thereby cheat a hotel out of revenue. How would Orrin like it if everyone in Lifescam combined to have 6-8 people share one system each month?

    If it was truly about the information and they are truly out to help people get control of their finances, wouldn’t it make more sense for several people to go in together and share one system?

    And cheating a hotel….is this the integrity they speak of?

    Also, does anyone know how many people this venue holds (not accounting for how much of the venue is blocked off by the large hanging black curtain. I remember so many events in venues that had a total capacity of 20,000. The entire top sections would be empty, about 1/3 of the venue was behind the curtain, and you know there were probably hundreds of one and two seat empties throughout the crowd, yet the leaders were claiming their were 15,000 in the crowd. Actual numbers were more like 6-7,000)

  5. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 24, 2012 6:11 am

    By the way we did this back in the day too. We never thought we were stealing or cheating the hotel or breaking the fire code. We just thought we were smart and saving money. Since we were all broke and would only be in the room for 6 hours to sleep if we were lucky….. It is sad to me I could not see the hypocrisy at the time….

  6. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 24, 2012 6:16 am

    NoTeamForMe- I agree Teamers should start copying cds and giving them out to their downline……to save money and get out this great information……. OF course it is “duplicatable” and they would be out of business..hey!? LOL! You are so right about the embelishments at the majors on how many attended! I always cannot wait to hear what they’re going to claim. Orrin knows how many tickets he sold……but he can’t share the truth……

  7. October 24, 2012 6:29 am

    How would Orrin like it if everyone in Lifescam combined to have 6-8 people share one system each month?

    Great example, @NoTeamForMe. Orrin sure wouldn’t like it. I’m going to add this to the original post.

  8. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:00 am

    Un..freaking.. believable! Just when I thought they could not stoop lower or show their lack of integrity and honesty more, they once again have surpassed it! Wonder how long that post and the “thank you” from Dan to Lisa will be there?

    They wonder why their reputation is such…they will go broke paying people for reputation and damage control, they “edify” (stroke egos) to a worshiping level…they simply have “earned it” …their way below average reputation will continue to proceed them.

    And then “blame” the critic for their actions, unbelievable!?

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:02 am

    They are a disaster waiting to happen!

  10. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:12 am

    Nice “promotion”..haha wonder how many they will get off that one, and who are they ‘targeting?’ Here’s the sad thing, their downline will repeat, and promote that now too!

  11. The Truth Hurts permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:34 am

    Glad to see Melanie Morgan here! When I was in Q with the Team of Deception I met and talked with Melanie more than a few times. Melanie is a nice woman, and so is her husband.

    I do remember once cramming into a hotel room with a bunch of others; no privacy, it was nuts, just plain nuts.

    I remember one Go Diamond where I just got up and went to bed (like normal people not drinking juice) and boy did I ever hear it from Upline the next morning! I had missed so much, don’t you know..actually, I missed nothing except regurgitated garbage spewing from Stage. I have never paid to drive to a bigger waste of time and money than Go Diamond..EVER!

    The bottom line, for all you still in, is simply this..look around you, how many are really making it? I mean, no debt, no have to do a meeting, can’t spend time with my kids, no being very quiet because gosh, no one can talk about the upline who has just disappeared from the “business”. And another thing..what business? I go to work and may a paycheck and pay my bills, it is called a JOB, and having a JOB is a wonderful thing. I don’t look for pie in the sky, they love me so much I am goinmg to be rich just like them” someday maybe stuff. And frankly, I would never want to be “like them”, greedy, telling whoppers, and the like, just to make a buck.

    Disgusting. Bottom feeders..the Carp in my pond are a far better team to hang around with; they have no ulterior motives.

    The above is based solely on my experiences and opinions, sadly enough.

  12. October 24, 2012 8:39 am

    Lisa Hawkins mentioned her excitement about seeing her friends, BUYING NEW TOOLS, and bonding with teammates this weekend. Funny, she didn’t mention sitting for hours on end waiting for that one “nugget” (I always hated that term) of information that would help you “move on”. She also didn’t mention how attending this weekend’s event would make your business explode or how it would make you profitable…at least she got that right! This weekend won’t do any of those things!

    On a related note, the whole BlockMeIn.com thing used to bother me. Team encouraged staying at the same hotel with teammates to make “the meeting after the meeting” easier, but we found the parking situation at those hotels to be horrible. Those team members who weren’t staying at the hotel came for the meetings and took all of the parking spaces, not to mention when you have 6-8 people per room, the parking lots aren’t set up to accommodate that…another fire hazard.

    Toward the end of our tenure with Team, we started making our own reservations (BlockMeIn rooms were non-refundable and they weren’t the cheapest option). I noticed that when I would use our Team e-mail address on the reservation, it would sometimes still get transferred over to Team and they would get credit for the booking so I would have to use my personal e-mail address instead. I wonder if that’s why we weren’t chosen to inherit a team that we didn’t deserve? We didn’t follow The Man of Steal’s rules!

  13. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:58 am

    Funny Lisa also didn’t mention the very large paycheck she will get next month for all the money the followers spend at the major this weekend!!!

  14. free to live again! permalink
    October 24, 2012 9:07 am

    They definitely advocate to stuff as many people in a room as you can. I remember always thinking that that was wrong, because it’s against hotel policy, but like I did so many other times, I just ignored my inner voice and went along with whatever the leaders said. Personally, we would do 6 people, with 2 on an air mattress and we made sure to put the Do Not Disturb sign up so the maid’s wouldn’t come in and clean and find the air mattress. I am so thankful to NOT be going this weekend!!!!!!!! If we were, we would probably be spending between $500-600 ON THIS ONE WEEKEND ALONE! That includes gas, food, next major tix (because if you are a leader, you’d have them!!) hotel and tools. Praise the Lord for opening our eyes!

  15. No Team For Me permalink
    October 24, 2012 10:03 am

    “BlockMeIn.com” – what a joke. Just another way for these snakes to make money off the backs of their people. Call up any hotel and ask their sales manager what kind of rewards you would get for booking 70% of their hotel or more. Depending on the hotel you could get a free presidential suite, several other free suites, free meeting rooms, etc

  16. Freedomhaha permalink
    October 24, 2012 2:09 pm

    Clock is ticking to see how long this will stay up now that it has been outed here. I bet Orrin’s ears are steaming as he reads this.

    PS: Hi Orrin :) I am praying for you. Honestly, I am. I pray that you would some day quit luring people into your cult/scam/pyramid scheme.

  17. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 24, 2012 8:28 pm

    The Truth Hurts~

    Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate them. :) Could you please tell my upline that, haha!

    Seriously though if you or anyone else want to speak privately, feel free to contact me through either my email with Amthrax or you could send me one through Facebook.

  18. October 24, 2012 9:08 pm

    I’m calling them…..

  19. Chris Martin permalink
    October 25, 2012 2:00 am

    Ok. This is all you got? I’m on team and this post is just about ridiculous. People overcrowd rooms all the time…it’s not a big deal…most the people on here need to get over their selves. Seriously team is a good thing….it might not be perfect and it might not be for everyone. Go out and do something significant instead of whining. Team is changing and team is stronger than ever. Jeez all u can come up with is team is.overcrowding rooms, believe me the hotels are making out well when.team comes to Columbus. People on here need to let go of their angst against team. I’ve heard all the objections. I understand some of the gripes about some.things on team, but their is.nothing.wrong with what they.stand.for…and it is not a cult like u say. Well I guess apparently in your opinion it is…did you ever think that some people change…if you want to complain how about complain about the politicians. Team is about integrity…excellence and values. You say they don’t live it…maybe your right and I’m wrong?..but maybe your wrong? Their whole basis is leadership….community and of course it’s a business. It might not be the best business model in the world, but they keep improving it. Its changed since monavie. I truly believe that team is going in a.great direction. I truly see where were going. Team life is more than a business! Are u in team right now? No…Orrin is absolutely right in saying people will criticizes u when your doing something significant and different…I believe time will prove Orrin and team right. Team will make it’s mark.
    There’s so much backstabbing, evil in this world. Why attack an organization that.stands for something of value. Lord knows we need people that stand for values that once made this nation great!! I do regret saying some negative comments on here, instead I should have directly voiced my concerns to my upline, because guess what they actually answered them no problem. Maybe I had different experiences.than others and I’m sorry that u did.I don’t believe complaining on a website is the way to go nor do I think it is right. Go to the.person I.say or forgive and let it go…enough! Also team is going to go to a million I have no doubt in the next five years.We’ve only just begun!!!

  20. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 25, 2012 3:12 am

    Chris- Obviously you haven’t read this whole site…..do you realize many people here taught from Team stages everything you are saying? You can chose to keep your head in the sand or really look at the evidence all over this site. I feel sorry for you as I was you at one time, I believed everything you are saying, I just blindly trusted Orrin and my up line…. and after years of work, sacrifice etc I found out they weren’t trustworthy and so did many other former Team leaders. Did you know John and Melanie Morgan were in the top 50 cd pack for years and are speaking put on this site? Could they possibly know more than you do about Orrin and Team? How about Pastor Dickie and his whole family who worked for Orrin, one as COO of Team and one as an attorney for Team? They are no longer with Team… How about Matt Abraham another attorney no longer with Team, or Don and Chris Freeze. one of Orrin’s best buds who are no longer with Team? Chris- I really hope you do your homework. Have you spoken to any ex members directly or are you just taking your up line’s word for it and only getting one side of the story? That would be a big mistake to make when joining any group. The FTC and cult expert Steve Hassan both recommend interviewing ex-members when checking out any group before joining. I wish you luck.

  21. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 25, 2012 3:28 am

    Chris- Be sure to read the LIFE PRIMER for details and documentation on Team and it’s leaders and you can also check out the FB page “Is Orrin Woodward’s Life/Team business destructive?” You will find photographs of my 1099’s from Team there and info on our story. Again good luck, I sincerely hope you don’t have to go through what many of us have. By the way I sponsored Dan and Lisa Hawkins and built their team for many years (you may have heard of them) and I also built Eric Blomdahl’s second leg for him for many years and later, after Orrin took our team, Blomdahl got our second leg in Team given to him, secretly. Many teams have been moved around and created fake recognition and results, you have no idea. You may want to read our story as well as the Morgan’s story. The Morgan’s were our upline who had way bigger teams than Hawkins or anyone else in the whole state of Wisconsin and many leaders in Michigan when their team was destroyed by their own upline PC George Guzzardo and company, all because they LOOKED at a business! Sorry to tell you, you don’t own your business you own nothing! It even states in your life contract that the PC can take your business whenever they want for any /or NO reason and you have no legal rights. Did you know you are also breaking the rules of LIFE by commenting here.. Please do yourself a favor and read the Policies and Procedures.

  22. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 25, 2012 3:43 am

    Free to Live Again- I agree with you on the outrageous expenses of the Major! I believe for us it was @ $800 minimum expense every time we went! We could’ve went on a lot of nice vacations with all the money we spent on system, books, tool trunks etc! Disney every year would’ve been easy with all that money and we could’ve actually been spending every night and weekend with our kids, parents, family and friends instead of being gone all of the time! I am glad to be free to live again as well! Love the name!

  23. October 25, 2012 4:09 am

    Chris, Chris, Chris…Team has been going to a million people since we started with them back in 2002! Like you, we worked our tails off trying to make that a reality…we were Go-Getters for years, Power Players many times over and spoke all over North America for the Team. I think you could say we were “all in”. Unfortunately, we found out the hard way that the leaders are not transparent. Worse yet, they are devious, and they are scheming to separate you from your money, under the guise of a greater good. Orrin always said (and probably still does), that the bigger the lie, the easier it is to sell it. A million followers is a pretty big whopper!

    You are oh, so right…the Team is making a mark, but not in the way you might think. We wanted so badly to believe that there was a group of people out there that stood up for what they believe, even if it cost them. We thought we had found that group in Team and we were willing to look away and dismiss questionable policies in order to achieve the greater good. Thank God that He opened our eyes to the truth, just like those posting on this site. Keep your eyes and ears open…the end does not justify the means. The followers of Jimmy Jones thought that it did, right up until the time they drank the Kool-Aid.

    We used to swear up and down to our negative friends and family that we were NOT involved in a cult. We thought we still had our critical thinking abilities intact, but since we got out, I’ve done some research on cults and TEAM IS A CULT! I hate to put it so bluntly, but there’s no other way. Chris, be careful what you’re messing with. Get out as soon as you can! Run like you’ve never run before!

  24. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    October 25, 2012 4:58 am

    Hey Chris. You messed up my hair with the rush of air from your passing vehicle. How do you safely drive as you lean out the window shouting Teamunist bullshit? You are a hazzard to all of us out here!

  25. freedomhaha permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:22 am

    Chris- What percentage of your Team is making a profit?

  26. elizabeth ricci permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:41 am

    can you get your money back just sign up yesterday.
    ?

  27. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:46 am

    Don’t worry freedom, you won’t hear back with an answer. Another drive-by, one comment wonder.

  28. free to live again! permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:55 am

    Chris stated:

    “Seriously team is a good thing….it might not be perfect and it might not be for everyone.

    I understand some of the gripes about some.things on team, but their is.nothing.wrong with what they.stand.for

    and it is not a cult like u say. Well I guess apparently in your opinion it is

    You say they don’t live it…maybe your right and I’m wrong

    It might not be the best business model in the world

    I don’t believe complaining on a website is the way to go nor do I think it is right”

    There is so much double speak – I think he’s confused. His sub conscious (come on, the ant and the elephant..) is telling Chris something is wrong, but he’s ignoring it.

    It’s a good thing, but yet not perfect – blah, been there, heard that, done with it
    He understands the gripes, but yet nothing is wrong – what?! How does his brain rationalize that?

    Maybe your right and I’m wrong – YUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    It’s not the best business model – it stinks dude. Remember, the system isn’t changing you. The leaders are just repeating what they have read in books….now that you know where to get good info, go out and get it yourself for a lot cheaper. You will not change the world by getting people to spend thousands of dollars in an MLM (well actually, you’ll make people go broke – so if you feel fine about making people go broke, continue to do this MLM). Become a missionary and serve if you really want to change the world.

    If you don’t believe in complaining on the web, then why did you do it? I feel for this guy because he is obviously in the same position I was – my heart was telling me things were wrong, but my brain just kept rationalizing all the questions I had. It took me 6.5 years to wake up, and I still have friends that have been in for 8 years that still believe “fast can happen at any time” “it only takes one”…..blah.

    Chris, listen to that voice that is asking the questions!! Don’t go to your upline! Instead, ask your crossline! (gasp!!) Find out how “fast” (or not) other teams are “growing”. There is a reason they don’t want you to crossline – you figure out it’s just a bunch of baloney!!!

    Raquel – we went into credit card debt because of this business and are now working on getting rid of it, so I can only imagine this weekend how much we would have put on a credit card. Once again, praising God for His plan :)

  29. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 25, 2012 8:49 am

    Chris~

    Open your eyes see, understand your odds, read your comments and the P &P, then study cults. You then will see what will make you fail and fall hard. Even though it will cost you everything short term it will save you more than all the money you could dream of having in the end because it will save you precious TIME with your family; pay attention and gain understanding.

    Do you sincerely “believe” all you have said after reading this site? I believe you are lying to yourself and you know it.

    I believe you are riding on your uplines “belief” for you; that has an agenda and motive to keep you spending in a broken business model that will leave you destitute, broke, and lonely because the odds of you ever making it are too small to even mention.

    You think your upline has all your answers and they will be your friends forever, take it from us they are superficial and based only on your “performing” and spending of your money on the system. Test it!!.. Tell them you can’t afford it (because you can’t) and you need to stop going to the major, seminars and getting off system until you have enough money to support it in the bank; make sure you have it saved first for the whole year… after all your bills are paid! See how long you get attention and how long they remain your “friend”!

    From experience, I KNOW the result, but you Chris are choosing to learn the hard way even though there is mountains of evidence from those who have gone before you. Good luck you are going to need it! Maybe you don’t expect more and are ok with “friendships” that are superficial and based on “conditions”…(spending your money) and if not, then I hope you have “prepared” your heart for what will come.

    You are deceived….they will have nothing to do with you as soon as you stop PAYING, and begin to question and think on your own again.

  30. Chris Martin permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:10 am

    Yes, it is a business. ..the business model isn’t perfect. There is definitely some changes that have taken place since I’ve been in for the better. This business is relatively cheap since their is no overhead and a lot of other things u need to get to be involved in a normal business. My purpose on here is to argue that team has a good purpose behind it. The difference I believe in team from anything I’ve known is the leadership and community aspect in team. I don’t believe it’s all about money. Of course it’s a business so that would be the main goal for most to make money. Is the business tough yes, you have to be highly dedicated and motivated. A lot of people don’t have.what it takes to own a business. That’s what’s different in team, we work as a team. Now it’s not perfect as I said and I’m sure some of the leaders aren’t as honest as others. It’s a big organization. You act like team is a bunch of criminals stealing your money and are evil. I look at what they teach, the books the top leaders write, and what they say and do. Sorry to disappoint you, I don’t see the deception. The values of what team teaches is what makes the difference, a business with values, people wanting to improve theirselves with accountability Simple as that…of.course as expected you’ll argue otherwise.

  31. freedomhaha permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:24 am

    Chris- What percentage of your Team is making a profit??

  32. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:32 am

    Chris~

    You couldn’t have study the comp plan, P&P, and cults that quickly, Chris.

    Stop defending, start asking yourself and your upline those hard questions about the “business.” Keep seeking and reading, study what I asked you too. And when you are spent emotionally, physically, and mentally and have faced your brutal reality, come back we will be here for you; when you are left destitute, broke and lonely.

    Fredomhaha~

    Sorry you are so ignored by the blind followers, just seem to skip right over your question, kinda rude.

    I laugh every time I see your post, I am rooting for that to get answered by SOMEONE, someday haha! :)

  33. freedomhaha permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:41 am

    Melanie- I use that question because I think it is possible to get lost in arguing things like “integrity” and “intent”. What is not possible to argue with is the math of the comp plan. I bet the teamsters just miss it by accident :)

  34. OhBeJoyful permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:58 am

    @Chris Martin

    When you say: “Also team is going to go to a million” what do you mean by that? A million distributors? A million customers? Or is it a combination of the two groups?

    Also, how many distributors and how many customers are currently in Team?

    Thanks.

  35. Former Round Table permalink
    October 25, 2012 10:08 am

    Chris Martin,

    I applaud you for coming to the site. I know that took courage, and it is painful to read some of the things on here, because it tarnishes the dream you have. I would like to reply to just a few of your comments.

    You said: “Of course it’s a business so that would be the main goal for most to make money.”

    My reply: The goal of any business is to make money. The confusion with Team/Life lies with who owns the business. Make no mistake, TEAM/LIFE IS ORRIN WOODWARD’S BUSINESS, AND HIS GOAL IS TO MAKE MONEY. For himself. PERIOD. It is not your business – read the Policies and Procedures document.

    Also, I would just point out that the very same people who tell you to treat it like a business and invest your time and money, when asked about how few people actually make money, will also say, “It’s not about the money. It’s about helping people.” If it were really about helping people, they would lower the costs of everything by 80%. They want it both ways.

    You said: “Is the business tough yes, you have to be highly dedicated and motivated. A lot of people don’t have.what it takes to own a business.”

    My reply: This is what Orrin and his followers want you to believe. That is how they justify all the hundreds of thousands of people who have been in and out and never made it. They want you to believe it was not the fault of Team/Life, it was the poor stupid individual who just didn’t have what it takes. This is a recipe for self-loathing when, after several years, you yourself just can’t seem to make it work.

    You said: “That’s what’s different in team, we work as a team.”

    My reply: Who works as a team? You are allowed to only work with the people above you or below you in your line of sponsorship. You cannot work with anyone outside that narrow parameter, even if you are related to them or they live next door to you! And anyone outside that narrow parameter is your competitor, even if they don’t admit it. Mark Paul stole several people out of my team with no repercussions. (He was suspended from Amway for six months once for doing that to someone else.)

    You said: “Now it’s not perfect as I said and I’m sure some of the leaders aren’t as honest as others. It’s a big organization. You act like team is a bunch of criminals stealing your money and are evil.”

    My reply: If Orrin was truly honest and ethical and moral, he would not allow anyone who wasn’t honest to be a part of the leadership. But the truth is, Orrin is not honest or ethical or moral. Have you ever heard the term ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing?’ It’s from the bible, and it refers to people who will pretend to be one thing so that they can steal from you or harm you or worse. Chris, I was as close to the top as you can get for many, many years. Orrin is a pathological liar. That is a fact, not opinion. He is stealing YOUR money, and he is using Christianity and preaching integrity so you won’t suspect him.

    You said: “I look at what they teach, the books the top leaders write, and what they say and do. Sorry to disappoint you, I don’t see the deception.”

    My reply: You aren’t supposed to see the deception. You cannot possibly see what they do. You only see what they want you to see and hear what they want you to hear.

    Chris, any real, authentic organization is not afraid of criticism, because real, authentic philosophies can stand up to the test of critics. The reason Team/Life goes to such lengths to squelch the critics is because they know we are right and they cannot argue away the truth.

    I am praying for you, my friend. You seem like a very sincere, honest person. I pray that the blinders will be removed from your eyes before too much damage is done.

    [editor's note: added bold for better readability]

  36. October 25, 2012 11:04 am

    Chris has gone through various ups and downs with regards to TEAM/LIFE. Chris is going through some serious cognitive dissonance As the blog owner I can search quickly for every comment he’s made on the site. Here’s a list of his past comments in chronological order:

    First comments on February 6-8, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/orrin-woodward-on-facts-versus-experience/#comment-14479 (he says that if he’s see him [Orrin] going contrary, he will find a way to confront him)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/orrin-woodward-on-facts-versus-experience/#comment-14490
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/orrin-woodward-on-facts-versus-experience/#comment-14495
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/orrin-woodward-on-facts-versus-experience/#comment-14496
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/orrin-woodward-on-facts-versus-experience/#comment-14499
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/do-what-i-say-not-as-i-do-team-round-table-members-home-foreclosure/#comment-14554 (ask about Pastor Dickie)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/02/07/do-what-i-say-not-as-i-do-team-round-table-members-home-foreclosure/#comment-14558

    March 17-21, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/anatomy-of-the-team-life-business-presentation/#comment-15682 (says the this site has some truths and half truths.)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15684
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15718 (uses the old college is a risky argument)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15719
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/whats-in-an-acronym-the-changing-meaning-behind-life/#comment-15720
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15722
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15739
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15759
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/05/reader-story-roy-wants-to-talk-some-sense-into-his-friend/#comment-15813 (says he hasn’t lost his critical thinking skills)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/ex-team-reader-qa-katie/#comment-15814

    April 3-5, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/ex-team-qa-i-quit-and-glad-i-did/#comment-16029
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/ex-team-qa-i-quit-and-glad-i-did/#comment-16040

    May 11-14, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16564 (says he’s still waffling with regards to his business)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16585
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16586
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16608
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16609 (Here he says he’s ready to quit soon)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/mental-fitness-challenge/#comment-16638

    May 28, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/since-orrin-wont-talk-about-amwayquixtar-let-dan-hawkins-explain-it/#comment-16877

    June 16-17, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/i-dont-want-a-free-trip-pay-me-my-money/#comment-17171
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/i-dont-want-a-free-trip-pay-me-my-money/#comment-17187

    June 30, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/mike-collins-presentation-on-the-life-compensation-plan/#comment-17391

    October 25, 2012
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/teamlife-leadership-conference-in-columbus-ohio/#comment-20027 (he’s back to being on the TEAM/LIFE bandwagon)
    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/teamlife-leadership-conference-in-columbus-ohio/#comment-20042

  37. October 25, 2012 11:10 am

    Yes, you can. Don’t open any of the material (if it’s shrink-wrapped). Instructions are in the sign-up documents you received.

  38. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 25, 2012 1:15 pm

    Haha Amthrax, you are the BEST!

    Former RT~

    Great points.

    I love this truth: “Chris, any real, authentic organization is not afraid of criticism, because real, authentic philosophies can stand up to the test of critics. The reason Team/Life goes to such lengths to squelch the critics is because they know we are right and they cannot argue away the truth.”

    Amen!

    I feel for Chris and know the pain of the process he will inevitably face: whenever that will be for Chris; who knows.

  39. not signed up yet permalink
    October 25, 2012 6:03 pm

    Par for the course. When they tried to get me to go to Columbus I heard the same thing. Pack into a hotel room liek sardines and eat peanut butter sandwiches all weekend.

    Not mention a drive across country where I am sure the CDs will be playing about building the business.

    Wait sec…if everyone is making so much money, shoudlnt everyone be able to get thier own room? And PB sammies? Really?

  40. Brent Hansen permalink
    October 25, 2012 7:02 pm

    @Chris, great to see your still here. The entertainment value you provide to this blog is priceless, thank you!

  41. ItsaPauling permalink
    October 25, 2012 9:16 pm

    Hi all! To Former Round Table: You said that Mark Paul was suspended for poaching people. We were told and always believed that they were suspended for selling Amway products on a popular on line auction site. What do you think?

  42. Chris Martin permalink
    October 25, 2012 11:05 pm

    Well I’m glad I’m so entertaining. It seems that every time I post on here I cause a stir. Yes I have been on both sides of the fence on the subject of team. Most things u say about team just doesn’t make a.lot of sense to me. To paint them evil is a bit extreme to me. That’s mostly the point Im trying to make…if they were to be evil their intentions would have u be totally dependent on them and have the person who signed up and have a total loss and them ( top leaders) making all the money, just don’t see that happening in this business. Everything is optional. I do believe that some go overboard on buying the stuff, but that’s their choice. Most of the leaders do not recommend buying everything if your broke..of course that’s my experience. What happened since now and.then is simply I.asked questions to my upline and they answered me no problem. Yes I probably could dig up some garbage on some of the leaders. Again is that the way u wanna go…because u can dig up stuff on mostly anybody who was a well known person. As on pyramid schemes this whole nation is built on pyramid schemes.. look at the dollar bill. I hate when people say is that one of those pyramid schemes. Anyway this is sort of a waste of time, so maybe.that’s why they tell people not to come on here..I’ve heard both sides …I agree with several points on here, if anybody on team tries to compromise my morals, I will stand up and confront the issue, if it’s not resolved than that will tell me something. So far it hasn’t happened , second I will not let life control my life. Ha, ha. I’m a Christian and.the only person who is in.control of my life is God. I’m not totally sold out like some to team. So that is some of my agreements on this site. My argument is noone said I had to do anything, the business is done at your free will. Plus it’s helped me in several areas of my life…speaking in front of.people, better financial diciplint, and even better relationships. and helped me have more confidence. Mostly I would say everything has improved in my life.
    So how is that a bad thing, plus I made some new friends and acquaintances on team. There is far more good than bad on team…bad as in having total dependence on team and no interaction with the outside world. When u have team as your God that’s when it is a.problem…which is the persons decision.
    Of course this is.from my perspective….I believe there is power when a bunch of people are trying to change for the better..something we should be doing anyway yet getting payed for it…now I probably opened up a bigger can of worms..oops..

  43. Brent Hansen permalink
    October 26, 2012 1:12 am

    @Chris, a single lie wrapped in a thousand truths is still a lie, wouldn’t you agree? I understand your last statement as I have been there myself. The thing you fail to acknowledge is the fact that LIFE is promoted as a “business opportunity” when in fact it is not. The promise of financial freedom and or security is the carrot that is dangled in front of everyone’s face that keeps them involved, and purchasing. That is a lie!

  44. Brent Hansen permalink
    October 26, 2012 1:22 am

    Get this Chris, perhaps this will help clarify things a little more. Someone on this blog posted a statement that LIFE is now servicing 50,000 subscribers. Since the compensation ratio is 26 to 1, it will require 1,300,000 indentured subscribers for each of those 50,000 to cover the basic $50 cost of their subscription, (many more people if they are subscribed to more expensive packages).

    Once those 50,000 have broken even, it will require 33,800,000 new subscribers for the previous 1.3 million to break even. Once those 33.8 million have broken even it will take 878,888,000 subscribers to break the 33.8 million subscribers even on their subscription.

    Are you seeing the picture here? Does this sound like a real & legitimate business? You and your group of 50,000 are basically 3 levels away from requiring 1 billion people just so that a small handful can earn $50.00 a month.

    Therefore, it is an unsustainable model, which will constantly chew up, and spit out people as they spend their hard-earned dollars from their J.O.B. keeping those at the top in their lush lifestyles.

    The very premise of the model is false, because the customers are not real customers. They are customers who joined with the expectation of earning a profit. Unfortunately for them, that cannot happen.

  45. OhBeJoyful permalink
    October 26, 2012 3:36 am

    I think that the reason that many folks in Multi-Level Marketing organizations do not realize that they are in a pyramid scheme is because they can’t distinguish between a pyramid structure and a hierarchical structure.

    Many organizations in society exhibit a hierarchical structure: the military (from generals, for example, down to privates); religious entities (i.e. the Catholic Church from the Pope down to the parishioners); Businesses (from the CEO down to the individual worker.) But these types of entities rarely add levels to their organizational structure. And often businesses reorganize their corporate structure and even remove layers!

    To the casual observer, MLM organizations appear to be hierarchies as well. But there is a key difference. They do not have a firm foundation … they keep adding layers to the bottom! And they must because new members expect to be able to build a downline just like all of the folks above them did.

    And so a MLM organization must grow exponentially and rapidly (so everyone can retire in 3 to 5 years!) That kind of growth is unsustainable and that is why I view MLM organizations as pyramid schemes. It has nothing to do with their hierarchical structure.

  46. switch permalink
    October 26, 2012 5:19 am

    You sure have a long paper trail here in Amthrax’s yard don’t you, Chris Martin?

    You’re playing with fire….

  47. freedomhaha permalink
    October 26, 2012 6:01 am

    Chris- You must have missed my questions before. No problem, I understand how that can happen. I was just wondering what percentage of your Team is making a profit?

  48. October 26, 2012 8:40 am

    Chris…Live as a team, die as a team. If your upline falls out of favor with the PC OR your downline quits and you have to rebuild OR your team gets moved to a different leg yet again OR the economy takes another hit OR Orrin decides to switch to another MLM OR…you get the idea – it doesn’t take much for the house of cards to fall and your team becomes non-existent over night.

    We had this happen to us a number of times. We were exploding while we were with Q and then came the whole Dateline episode and we lost 1/3 of our team. We hadn’t even recovered our losses when Orrin decided to leave Q. We loyally followed him and, as a result, we lost our Q12 bonus ($10,000), our Achiever’s trip, our profit sharing and more than half our team. We got some members back when we joined MV, but we were again in the rebuilding process. Then the economy tanked and most people couldn’t afford expensive juice so the rest of our team crumbled.

    It’s not that we didn’t know how to get the results – we rebuilt our teams a number of times – the problem was we reacted and moved as a team, and that ended up being our downfall. While building as a team is appealing, the converse is not true. Dying as a team is ugly and depressing because so many people are affected and as a leader, it leaves you with a huge feeling of guilt and regret that you let all those people down even though the circumstances were out of your control.

    Every time Orrin decides to switch MLMs, which is often (Quixtar, Team of Destiny, TEAM, MonaVie, LIFE), it cripples your team a little more and you are constantly in a rebuilding phase. Not only that, but all of your promotional tools are obsolete and you have to buy new ones…and who does that benefit??? Could it be…SATAN?!

  49. October 26, 2012 11:09 am

    I’ve posted a visual timeline of key TEAM events (bankruptcies, strategic defaults, etc.) here:

    http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/visual-timeline-of-team-history/

    Chris – I encourage you to watch this timeline carefully, as we’ll be adding many more events in the future. We look forward to seeing you question your leaders about these key events in the timeline.

  50. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 26, 2012 11:43 am

    Platinum Blond~

    All your posts are great, I love reading them, thanks for sharing!

    It is a “build and replace” farce since the beginning of time, always has been, always will be! It is designed that way! And then throw in many dashes of idiotic and moronic “decisions” made along with their comp plan that solidifies it and you have a recipe for destruction, damages and loses in ginormous proportions!

    The Team & Lief is a set-up for an Epic Fail… For Everyone, including the TOP 7 who make picket the pockets of the downline but they still cannot stop building!

    It is the worst JOB on the planet. People in 3 world countries make more per hour than the masses ever will wasting their lives and time in that scheme.

  51. No Team For Me permalink
    October 26, 2012 5:15 pm

    Announcement. Surprise. Surprise. New Team CD packs being released in Ohio. :) I’m not making this up. Yet another version of “Depth Pack”, “Conquer Fortify Domesticate”.

    How many times are they going to put a new picture on the same CD’s?

  52. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 26, 2012 6:28 pm

    They know not what makes them stumble!

  53. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 26, 2012 9:10 pm

    Are you kidding?! AGAIN!! This is almost laughable….that people cannot see they have to keep buying the same crap.

  54. October 28, 2012 5:47 am

    Tim Marks tweeted that over $1.5 million in bonus and incentive trips were paid during the first year of LIFE. Mike Collins and Brent Hansen, what do you make of these numbers?

  55. October 28, 2012 6:45 am

    It’s a beautiful day to be free…free from TEAM!!!

  56. switch permalink
    October 28, 2012 8:40 am

    NTFM-
    “New Team CD packs being released in Ohio”

    Sounds like more kindling for the campfire.

  57. No Team For Me permalink
    October 28, 2012 8:42 am

    Hey, it’s Sunday. Won’t be long till the Teamscammers start posting pics on facebook of the ‘thousands of lives being changed” at the Teamscam event and attempting to distract from their lack of integrity by posting about the lives being changed at the church service on Sunday morning.

    They are very big on quoting scripture and talking about the Bible. This is very intentional to deflect and make people think they are Christians. In actuality, it is situational Christianity. Claiming to be a Christian when it is convenient for their business purposes. However, the lives they live do not exemplify that of a Christian. A true Christian doesn’t have to keep telling you how much of a Christian they are. You can tell by the way they live their lives.

  58. freedomhaha permalink
    October 28, 2012 1:37 pm

    No Team- You nailed it with your last post. What Team does in so way is real Christianity, and it really hurts people spiritual life once they leave.

  59. Soon2BOut permalink
    October 28, 2012 7:02 pm

    I wonder why they switched it back….the major was in Wisconsin last time. hmm…

  60. Soon2BOut permalink
    October 28, 2012 7:27 pm

    i’ve been shunned from my team mates…so I want to know what “new and life changing information” was given out at this major. What new thing is being shoved down peoples throats? What is the current stuff that is getting people ssoooo fired up about? I wanted to ask when one of my former uplines called me on the way home and said “you HAVE to come back, get your stuff together, come back because right now, it’s going to explode” I laughed and said no thanks, and then got a “go enjoy life working at your job blah blah blahhh you quitter blah blah blah failure blah blah blah”

  61. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 28, 2012 8:33 pm

    Soon to be out- that is a terrible way for them to treat any person! You don’t deserve that!

  62. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 28, 2012 9:06 pm

    Soontobeout- Isn’t that ALWAYS what they say? For 9 years the same….it’s going to explode….blah blah blah. I wouldn’t be proud to share something with family and friends that uses deceptive practices to recruit and hold people in.

  63. Brent Hansen permalink
    October 29, 2012 2:39 am

    @Amthrax, you posted “Tim Marks tweeted that over $1.5 million in bonus and incentive trips were paid during the first year of LIFE. Mike Collins and Brent Hansen, what do you make of these numbers?”

    It is pretty easy to pay out bonuses like this considering the top-heavy allocation. This money that those at the top do not need could be used to help offset the losses incurred by those at the bottom. If people are joining Life to earn money, sorry, that isn’t going to happen for upwards of 96% of you.

    An opportunity is only as good as its ability to bring a brand-new person into profit. This plan has one of the worst compensation allocations in the entire industry. It is pure wealth re-distribution, but in reverse, taking from those with small means, and giving it to those who are already earning plenty, and some call our current president bad? Hahaha……

  64. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 29, 2012 3:40 am

    Oh but Orrin would say its free enterprise, capitalism…. not socialism….. yet he gave others’ teams, secretly to his favorites…..hmm……. Something doesn’t add up here.

    Also the top earned only 1.5 million in bonuses and trips hey in the past year? That’s really not very good, for the wealth they claim to make in Life is it? Must not be doing so hot. That’s not very much wealth for all them big wigs to share is it? But hey that’s only on the LIFE side, I wonder how much the favorites all secretly earned on the Team profit sharing/directors side?

  65. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 29, 2012 3:42 am

    By the way I agree with Brent, my point is they haven’t been making the wealth they claim on stage….really 1.5 million isn’t that just a scooby snack for Orrin and yet that’s for the whole company! WOW! NOT SO GOOD!

  66. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 29, 2012 3:55 am

    Could one show the FTC that the lifestyle and income claims the PC have made this past year at recruiting meetings have been fraudulant just bysharing Marks’ “1.5 million bonuses paid out ” statement? I mean everyone says that Hawkins make over a million a year …..how can that be? Surely they didn’t get 2/3 of the Life bonuses paid only to them? Just a thought. What other claims have you guys heard? We could do the math and prove they are lying, or the rumors are wrong. Or perhaps like before certain leaders are making a killing on the Team directors side?

  67. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 29, 2012 3:57 am

    @BRENT: hey, I might be getting tangled up in semantics here, BUT: isn’t ALL pay in LIFE called “bonus”? That seemed to be the first thing I noticed in their plan was that except for the very base compensation, I’d see the word “bonus” a lot….in fact, I think I talked to Raquel about that one day. In other words, could those guys be inflating the numbers by calling a lot of stuff “bonus compensation”?

  68. freedomhaha permalink
    October 29, 2012 5:26 am

    Does LIFE have an IDS yet?

  69. No Team For Me permalink
    October 29, 2012 5:48 am

    I could be wrong, but I’m thinking Tim Marks was referring to a special annual bonus which was paid (similar to the $10k Q-12 bonus that Quixtar used to pay), not the total amount earned throughout the year. My guess is that the checks were paid at the Teamscamfest function in Ohio to try and get everyone ‘fired up’.

  70. JOBOutsider permalink
    October 29, 2012 6:54 am

    I work at a large company where people who work in upper management are involved in TEAM/LIFE and basically force employees to join up with the threat that they wont get promoted or a raise etc.

    Most of these people attended this seminar and they’ve all been running around basically cloaked and talking about their cult meetings and how it’s about to explode all morning. I am an outsider to all of this due to my skepticism of the whole scam. It drives me crazy that management changes peoples schedules to attend meetings and such, and the amount of company money wasted on 2 hour lunches and extreme cell phone bills to teamscam is absurd.

    Their big plan is to buy a gated community with all of their riches to live in so they can keep out the nonbelievers.

    Any time I speak up or criticize I am instantly reprimanded. I am pretty much looking at quitting my pretty decent job just to get out of this environment.

    Most of them are 3 years into their 2-5 year plan and haven’t made any money yet. The only reason I am still friends with some of them is to have a huuuuuge I TOLD YOU SO party in another year or two when this all turns into Albania Circa 1997.

  71. October 29, 2012 11:21 am

    @Joboutsider – does TEAM/LIFE involvement go all the way to the top of your company? Have you raised this issue with the managers of those TEAM/LIFE upper management individuals?

  72. Freedomhaha permalink
    October 29, 2012 12:29 pm

    JOBoutsider- I kind of thought I had seen everything…. The extent of this shocked me and I have been a regular poster on here about a year. It is really scary how far this evil scam stretches. Thanks for sharing. Gook luck at you J.O.B. (just over broke) :)

  73. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 29, 2012 12:34 pm

    Holy smokes! Freedomhaha: I had to come read the poster’s story when I saw your comment in email inbox. NOW do you guys see why I’m so scared about my kid’s own boss from his regular job pulling him into LIFE/Team, too? I was afraid of this! AND: This is how Orrin gets double the mileage off of his OWN independent leadership talks going into businesses, too—he can ease people into the more pyramidal type scheme once he’s done with corporate leadership seminars. He can make friggin’ “end consumers” out of folks long after his business seminars are done, too. What a wiley schnook!

  74. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 29, 2012 2:39 pm

    JOBOutsider~

    “The only reason I am still friends with some of them is to have a huuuuuge I TOLD YOU SO party in another year or two when this all turns into Albania Circa 1997.”

    Hahahahahahahahahahaha! Please Send me an invite! :)

    That has got to be hell—0, going to work everyday!

  75. Finally permalink
    October 29, 2012 4:36 pm

    1.5 million………what did they take in??????? LOL Are you kidding me?? Most of that was probably in the first 3 months when they resigned everyone up. They can toy with the numbers a lot as we already know. All of that bonus money went back to people that put more into the pot than they got out. Great business.

    Bottom line is they are headed for a major fall. They will get a bump here and there but how long can people hold out without making more money than they put in.??

    Joboutsider, that is disturbing that your company is forcing people into system and in my opinion they are headed for some legal problems.

    More team scam…..more team lies…….more team smoke and mirrors….Leaders leasing cars they say they own to make it look like they are making more than they are. Heck I know people that are out of team and making more money than they ever did in team and getting their goals and dreams all without a mentor, system and orrin and the PC. I also know people than have been in team for 7+ years and still going backwards and talk like they are millionaires. Heck I know families that were on food assistance for their kids yet attending majors…….How screwed up is that???? Sad part is their mentor was coaching them do that, that is criminal.

  76. Freedomhaha permalink
    October 29, 2012 4:56 pm

    Finally- They can’t be headed for a major fall because Orrin said it was the best major ever!! Source: Twitter

    Amthrax- Possible article idea: All of the “post-major” blog posts/tweets from Orrin/PC saying that this was the “best major ever”.

  77. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 29, 2012 6:03 pm

    A 1.5 million pay back in bonus and incentive trips… (I get calls all the time giving vacations away (their is a catch) it is marketing BS…. Haha, How much of the 1.5 is the cost of those “incentive trips” that the PC is probably getting in bulk and wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t getting a kick back?

    They must be banking A WHOLE LOT for themselves, that isn’t squat for a supposed 50,000 people paying in at a minimum of $50 per package that would be 2.5 million,( if my math skills are serving me, if not where is Brent? lol) so where did the rest of the cash get distributed too?

    And that isn’t even counting what they are Banking from the Team= separate Revenue for the good ole boys, that would not be published or talked about!

    You are right, Finally, they are great spinsters, and O has played with the Profit-sharing numbers and pay in the past; and if he has, we could conclude, he still will and is. They say they are “exploding”, hahahaha

    Would that make it the greatest unfair and fraudulent pay plan in the pillaging industry?

    They will fall.

  78. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 29, 2012 6:05 pm

    Freedomhaha~

    That is hysterical and a great idea!

  79. Finally permalink
    October 30, 2012 4:09 am

    considering the 1.5 million is about 6 weeks of Orrins pay from the team what is there to brag about???

    They are exploding….they are always exploding…..every major is the BEST major ever yet nothing ever changes, numbers don’t, attitudes don’t just people get broker and broker and o and the PC get richer and richer. They are throwing a few bones to some of the guy’s that have been “loyal” and sold their souls for a few bucks but as the Bible says….Mark 8:36 “What is it if a man gains the whole world yet loses his own soul?” I know the pc is reading this and all our posts and claim that they are only doing good…..but we and others have seen, heard and talked to the ones that have left for moral reasons and have had their families torn apart and incomes decimated. I know they have and excuse for everything but there are hundreds if not thousands of people that have left the team for the same reasons and are coming forward………watch this board in the next year……more and more people are watching, reading and talking with those on here and others that have left and are making up their minds as we type as to whether or not they are going to perpetuate the lie or give into their conscience. I am not talking about the new guy that thinks he has found the holy grail of income, I am talking about the seasoned vet that has put thousands and thousands of dollars and hours into his or her “dream” and has nothing but debt and a pile of over priced cd’s and books to show for it……….along with the trail of relationships that have been damaged, some beyond repair. They know we are telling the truth because they are experiencing if first hand and those on here that have come forward like Melanie and Raquel have given them strength and confidence to trust their own judgements and question the leadership. I must say a big thank you to Dan welfare hawkins for having that special meeting a while back and ripping the young lady apart that dared question him. Dan you have singled handedly damaged the team in a way that can’t be undone. You have no idea of the people in your own team that are gaining strength from this site and the people on here to leave. You might want to renew your mechanics license…………You never know when you might need it………..

  80. JOBOutsider permalink
    October 31, 2012 8:27 am

    @amthrax: Their bosses know that they are involved but they don’t know the extent of what happens on a daily basis. Once I find other employment I will definitely be blowing the whistle.

    It does bring great enjoyment to mark my calendar with dates that they claim things will happen by then watch the dates come and go. At least 3 retirement dates have passed with no actual retirement.

    The biggest thing that makes me angry about it is that they prey on the weak, people who are easily duped into a get rich quick scheme. I feel bad for those people. I do often see some of the behaviors described on this website; especially when I try to reason with them. They get ultra-defensive about it. It really is quite funny to watch.

    The drama has increased recently as a rival juice cult has moved in on their territory. More details to follow.

  81. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 4, 2012 1:38 pm

    Wow, I take a week or so off to mourn the passing of a best friend, and I miss everything.

    Former RT called my former upline, Mr. Paul, a thief. Didn’t realize that he also gained groups that did not belong to him. I’m sorry that happened to you. Can’t believe that I trusted that man. Orrin did pick his “inner circle.” didn’t he?

    You also mentioned that Mark Paul was given 6 mos off from Quixtar for the same thing. ItsaPauling said that he heard it was for selling on eBay. LOL, ROTF & LMAO….I heard that it was for false reporting of customer volume.

    Is it not amazing that within the same team, the stories can be so different, yet their drum keeps on beating? The only thing that keeps these lies in the closet is that people don’t talk to anyone other than their downline or upline. Even if you are within the same team but have different uplines or downlines these stories stay within the same line.

    Want to get the answers to your deepest, darkest questions once and for all….like I did….Chris Martin?

    Start crosslining!

    For example, I’d like to ask any of my crossline in the Paul team when Mark Paul left Berean Baptist as an elder….and I know the truth…now. I didn’t know the truth 60 days ago. I still thought he was, and I mentored with the guy.

  82. freedomhaha permalink
    November 4, 2012 4:13 pm

    Job- Keep us updated. I also take notes of all the missed retirement dates as they pass. Not to taught them or wish them ill, but to document them in the case of intervention. Maybe with the facts in front of them they will wake up. I tend to say no, but when faced with the math I gained my freedom on the spot.

  83. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 4, 2012 6:22 pm

    Rascal- I love crosslining! That is how the truth comes out!

  84. ItsaPauling permalink
    November 4, 2012 8:35 pm

    Hey Rascal, Sorry to hear about your friend. I would like to direct you to posts from “Robin”. Don’t remember where they are, you will need to search. Not sure if you ever met “Robin” but they would have been C/Line to you. A world of info there and they were’nt the only ones so affected by your former upline.

  85. freedomhaha permalink
    November 5, 2012 6:15 am

    ItsaPAULing- Let me know if you find those posts. I am also looking for more info in the Rampage/Rampage Renegade area of the TEAM. Any info that I can find will help me rescue friends that are still involved.

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