Anatomy of the TEAM LIFE Business Presentation
Mesha, a reader and contributor on this site provides a great overview of what you may hear if you go to a TEAM LIFE business presentation. In the second part of this document, she outlines the questions you should ask of TEAM LIFE members.
I am a very positive person, and I believe that people can and should reach for their dreams. Do not label me as “negative person, a lazy critic, sore loser, or a dream stealer.” In fact, I just hope that those screwed by TEAM don’t write off their dreams in the end.
I am sickened with the deception in TEAM and want to get the word out. After all, don’t they say that “Evil flourishes when good people do nothing?” That’s why I’m writing this post.
Introduction to the Meeting and Dream Building
In a TEAM LIFE presentation, a TEAM LIFE member will ask you the following questions:
- How would you like to be Financially Free?
- How would you like to stay at home with your kids?
- Get rid of that JOB?
- Pay off those student loans?
- What are your dreams?
- How would you like to live out your dreams?
Next, they will say something to the effect of:
- Well, we have news for you! In just 3-5 years you can have more money than you will know how to manage.
- Money will be coming out of your ears.
- In fact, with all that money you can have the freedom to bless others financially, if you so choose.
- And you will never, ever, ever have to have a JOB again!!
- Unless, of course, financial freedom and wealth building is not your thing.
- This amazing opportunity is not for everyone.
- No, it’s not network marketing. It’s a Leadership Development Service Provider.
Lecture On How Money is Made
From here, they will proceed into a Robert Kiyosaki-influenced lecture on how to make money:
- In this country there are four legal ways to make money.
- They are divided up into quadrants. “ESBI”. In the “E” quadrant you are trading time for money at your job. If you are trading time for money you are never going to be able to have both — the criteria for true wealth. Changing jobs won’t save you either. You must change quadrants.
- In the “S” quadrant a person owns their own small business, but is still trading time for money. They need to be present in order for that business to function. Even if employees are hired there is still no guarantee the job will get done. And when it doesn’t, who has to clean up the mess? You do!
- In contrast, on the right side of the chart a system is leveraged for making money.
- In the I quadrant money is made through investments, usually requiring a large sum of money to start with.
- BUT, in the “B” quadrant, a passive, residual income is created. A system has been set in place, allowing you to do the work once, and then profit from it long after you have stopped working. This is where 95 percent of the money in the United States is at. Remember, a person is only truly wealthy if they have both time and money. A “B” type income will give you that.
- Bet you didn’t learn this is school. That’s why you need to stick around the Association where you can gain access to the Right kind of Information.
More Dream Building
Following this lecture, the TEAM LIFE presenter will ask you some more questions to get you thinking about an improved financial life.
- How would you like to determine when you get a raise?
- What if you were compensated in direct proportion to the amount of work you did?
- What if you got to determine your work hours?
- I’m here to tell you that all this and more is possible. Sadly, though, as people move up in their careers, their income tends to cap off at a certain point even though they are doing the same work.
- It slowly sinks until retirement age where the majority of Americans are now either dead, disabled or broke.
- After they spend years making someone else rich they have come to the sunset of their lives with nothing to show for, living lives of quiet desperation.
- They were lulled into mediocrity, vicariously living their lives out through the blue hue, and one day hoping and praying their children would do something more.
- Isn’t it kind of funny how we could have done everything right in life and still end up at this point?
- Ya know they told us to go to school, graduate, and get a good job, and yet the majority of Americans are in debt. Look at the economy.
- It’s hard isn’t it? We know.
- We understand. We also have a solution.
Introducing TEAM and LIFE
After all this set-up, the TEAM LIFE presenter finally gets to talking about the business opportunity (LIFE) and the system (TEAM). At the same time, there’s scant concrete information given on exactly one is going to be selling.
- In school we are taught to learn a trade, do, it, and then that defines our lifestyle. But what if it was the other way around?
- What if we defined the kind of lifestyle we wanted learned from others who had the results we wanted in life, and then did them?
- Through a Leadership Development Service provider called TEAM you can learn how to create a passive, residual, type B income by owning your own LIFE business.
- We have a proven system to help you grow your business as well.
- Orrin Woodward, IAB award winner and chairman of the TEAM, as well as the rest of the PC have already forged the terrain in this industry and have created a system.
- The hard work has already been done. All you have to do is follow their path. Once you do, those who made it will be waiting to embrace you at the finish line.
- We are all in this together as a team.
Someone who’s seeing this TEAM LIFE business for the first-time will be no doubt confused by the terminology. What’s TEAM? What’s LIFE? What’s the PC? Who’s Orrin Woodward? These are great questions to ask at the end of the presentation. But, there’s no time for questions, as the presenter continues to spin the dream of what you’ll be doing:
- Through the system you will learn how to create communities of people.
- You want to know how money is made in this? People push products, products don’t push people.
- In networking a company with a product will pay communities of people to market their products instead of paying for advertising. That means more money goes back into your pocket.
- In this business you are creating communities of people which serve as the pipeline through which goods and residual income flow.
- It is kind of like Facebook, except that you get paid for every person you get to join your network.
- When you join your upline will have a vested interest in your success. They don’t make money until you do.
- All the stars are aligned in your favor. The only way you lose is if you QUIT.
At last, the presenter describes what LIFE really is, or does he?
- You, my friend, have come at the right time.
- TEAM has just launched its own MLM — the LIFE business — a few months ago and it is exploding!
- LIFE stands for Living Intentionally for Excellence.
- It’s a subscription service of world class leadership materials that will help you live a better life in all of the eight F’s — your family, faith, fitness, friendship, fun, following, finances, and freedom.
- This business is great because it is at the intersection between four booming industries- networking, community building, the life coaching industry, and the self-help industry.
- This business sells itself!
The presenter omits the fact that TEAM has been around since the 90′s, and has been aligned with several MLM businesses in the past: Amway, Quixtar, and MonaVie.
Some Details… But Not All
The presenter now talks about the capital investment needed to get started in LIFE. He also tries to (poorly) address the pyramid scheme complaints about this business by changing the subject:
- For only xxx amount of dollars, you too can have access to a multi- billion dollar business.
- Plus, as soon as you hit power player your business will pay for itself.
- No, this is not a pyramid scheme.
- Your job is a pyramid scheme and a cult.
- In a pyramid scheme you can’t make more money than the person who recruited you… but remember to save your spot before someone gets in ahead of you!
- You wonder if only the people at the top make money — well most traditional businesses have a 90 percent failure rate in the first few years of startup too, and remember those at the top had to start at the bottom at one point!
- And remember it’s not about the money — this is a social movement wrapped around a business.
- Orrin Woodward and the PC are Godly Individuals who are working to bring mom’s home and fight the media war.
The Final Pitch
The end of the presentation is near, but the TEAM LIFE rep has one final pitch to make:
- Can’t afford the startup fee? Then you must really need the system!
- Everything costs money at first.
- But really we are not about the money.
- In fact the producers of the LIFE subscriptions have decided to not take any royalties from their products so more money can flow back to those who are creating the communities.
- Let’s schedule a follow up appointment in a few days.
- Here’s some information to look over — feel free to ask any questions but remember, you wouldn’t go to McDonald’s Hamburger University and question their system would you?
- We are doing this with or without you!
- Are you fired up yet????
Since they said we could ask questions, let’s go ahead and start asking. The questions prospects should pose to TEAM LIFE members is covered in Part Two here.







I had forgotten about the “media war.” This is pretty thorough, indeed. I’m so embarrassed that I used to peddle the same lies. Looking at it now makes it seem so obvious! Why would anyone say yes to this?? Amazing.
I love this! Spill the STP presentations for free and outside of the high pressure hype situation of the personal meeting and NO ONE will fall for it. The kingpins and mlm-experienced know that, which is exactly why they cling to such an otherwise outdated sales mechanism, for Pete’s sake! Gotta love it. I hope you guys can spill them all like this – MV presentations, Amscam presentations, any of them! Nobody else can do it, except you guys who have been there, and this is a case where information is power. In that sense, the once scammed have the power right now, and the scammers can’t do anything about it. Be loud. Attract attention. You do have something to say!
(And Katie and others shouldn’t be too hard on themselves, IMO, because the only reason you fell for it is that you didn’t have the benefit of seeing the plan “naked” like this. You saw it with the scam-o-rama drama in full swing. Without that, it’s clear to you, too, as Katie mentioned.)
Great job- this is 100% on, sadly.
You’d have to be an idiot to not see this is almost verbatim the Amway plan.
Except Amway has, you know, products. That are overpriced.
Not about the money? That’s a load. Woody and Co. seem to care about nothing BUT money.
And subservience.
rocket said: “You’d have to be an idiot to not see that this is almost verbatim the Amway plan.”
If you’ve heard it before, that is! I think this info could help a newbie save a lot of time ( and potentially $ and embarrassment and all the rest).
Seriously, I didn’t know the whole spiel was identical (though I might have guessed at this point) so I bet other readers outside of mlm don’t know. And I bet still others are wondering if they should believe those who are showing the plan and telling them, “oh, no,we’re entirely different from that other nasty mlm which is a pyramid scheme!” I like the idea of having all the “plans” available so the newbie could read and discern for himself if they’re so entirely different or realize what rocket says – that they’re interchangeable!
I’ve never heard the Amway pitch or the TEAM/LIFE pitch, personally. (Just lucky, I guess!) I heard a relative’s first go at giving the mv pitch last year – not very convincing and a bit creepy. (That was what introduced me to this site.) I can think of a few things different in the mv pitch I heard – like an environmental slant, a charitable slant and of course the freaky health claims. But I’d love to see someone in the know share the polished mv presentation as above one day. If you can stomach it – I imagine it might be difficult, but I really think it could help other folks! I’m picturing the guy who just reluctantly set up the meeting time to hear the plan, then he goes home, googles “team life business plan” (or whichever flavor has targeted him) and then reads the whole scammy thing, and saves himself the trouble of the whole embarassing pitch. So he calls up and cancels and lives happily ever after. ! Whew, dodged a bullet.
This is awesome Mesha! These MLM charlatans are full of bs. They got so used to telling their lies they believe the same as the unequivocal truth. I would have to crawl out of my skin to attempt to sit through this mishmash of bs in my life ever again. But if I could this is how I’d have fun talking back to the liar read LIEFer, before I get kicked out I suppose. This is a good one.
LIEFer “This is where 95 percent of the money in the United States is at.”
I shout “Nonsense, Bull Shizzle, prove it!”
(P/S Why it’s a lie, How many of your neighbors or friends do you know that make residual income? And for those who do where do they take their residual income? Back into a residual limbo or into investments? Even thinking this one thro’ without empirical data just doesn’t add up. Thanks to critical thinking.)
LIEFer “Bet you didn’t learn this is school.”
I shout “No they don’t teach lies over there!”
LIEFer “That’s why you need to stick around the Association where you can gain access to the Right kind of Information.”
I shout “No can do, it’s too expensive to stick around you just to buy lies, liar!” To hell with these types lying MLM scoundrels!
@ Rocket, Outsider
These other MLM charlatans may twitch any which way they want but the fact remains that scAmway is the grand daddy of them all. In fact, they owe their existence to grand daddy and deep inside of them they know that, no matter which way they skew or slant their presentation, talk, who they claim to be, how different or whatever it is. You know that grand daddy done mastered the art of staying alive-use the words political contributions and Republicans in the same sentence.
Here’s a good read
http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/conspiracy/amwaybush.shtml
http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/conspiracy/conspiracy/amwaybush2.shtml
The idea of posting a collection of different MLM’s presentations here is really great and it’s about time. Let the prospects listen over there, read over here and make own determinations. Heck I could even do some myself. Good job Mesha.
ExAmbot, you have got it all wrong. Check out this quote from one of the Life followers on Orrin’s blog. Don’t you know you have it all wrong? This is not some lame MLM pitch this is a God given calling.
“The divine appointment of these two men has led to the changing of thousands and soon to be millions of lives.” Kristen Seidl
They sure are changing lives, hope & change, that’s what this is all about. This goes way beyond the money, these folks are literally making a difference….hahahaha! Rubbish!
Perhaps Orrin should step in the presidential race as a third party candidate, after all he has mastered the art of grabbing everyone’s money and distributing among the elite few. He would fit right in in Washington D.C…
@ Ex- Ambot
“LIEFer “Bet you didn’t learn this is school.”
I shout “No they don’t teach lies over there!”
LIEFer “That’s why you need to stick around the Association where you can gain access to the Right kind of Information.”
I shout “No can do, it’s too expensive to stick around you just to buy lies, liar!” To hell with these types lying MLM scoundrels!”
haha love this! You should do it.
@ Truth Seeker- sadly I think there used to be a facebook group called ‘Orrin Woodward for President’. Tried looking it up again but its gone now.
@Truthseeker
I am glad to be wrong it’s so right!
“…divine…”
Oh puleeeze MLMers! Tagging on divine crap onto scams is a road charlatans use to disarm people and make their way into their wallets via their hearts and minds. I posted a huge sign “ExAmbot” it means road closed!
“…changing lives…” These greedy charlatans are changing lives for sure – bankruptcies, broken relationships etc. What manner of hell they wreak on people. I don’t want any part of their, ahem, divine heaven that they creating. If that means going to to hell, gladly, I will see them there!
@Mesha
I got a call to attend a presentation from a former downline who joined another scam recently. I am so far removed from this pernicious pretend MLM “industry” that just the idea that I could be there to witness a scam in progress was too revolting to attend. Closed minded to scams, hell yeah. But may be someday I just might have time & overcome my disgust and attend just to trouble make and update on the latest in MLM scam world. Open minded to that, hell yeah it’s enticing.
Opukester for President?! Ha Ha that’s funny, phoney.
Let me guess oh he has too much divine dedication to “change lives” to bother with being president. Talk about looking at which side of the bread is buttered. I can’t think of anywhere else that would offer as free a reign to scam and pillage as there is in MLM scam world for a kingpin.
OW for President.
It is a group page on Facebook since December 2009 with two members Jessica Venegas and Brad Blackwire, and apparently less than 50 supporters
http://www.facebook.com/groups/43653055241/
He Amthrax, it is time for you to make a group page on Facebook as well maybe titled “OW for President. Seriously? I think you will get more than 50 supporters!!!
@ Ex Ambot
I just got ‘ prospected’ for TEAM the other day from some random person while I was at work- geez. Work of all places. You can imagine the horror on my face when he pulled out his business card with the all too familiar logo. I almost gagged. Looking back now I wish I could have some up with something creative to say but I just didn’t see that one coming.
So what did ya say to them?
I design my responses for max shock & awe and fun. Last time I got hit by a couple I directed the conversation into a talk I would rather not repeat right now since we were three of us. They took off and threw a shallow god bless you gibberish my way as good as any pretend pseudo christian mlmer would. Darn, what a closed minded couple. Notwithstanding the “bizz” they didn’t attempt to preach to me to change my…lost ways???!! I thought it was more than a “bizz” it’s a ministry. They had a 911 on a “lost soul” and blew it for jesus. Anyway the whole thing gave me quite a tickle
Looking forward to the next encounter.
Honestly I was so surprised to have this random guy come up to me at work and hand me one of those ‘ business cards’ that I didn’t know what to say. For a minute in paranoia I thought that he was teasing me because he didn’t approach anyone else working but went right up to me. I Just stammered a ‘ No, thank you- I’ve already done that’ and walked away. I should have recognized that semi- crazy gloss to his eyes and known I was dealing with someone from team when he first started talking to me.
I wanna think of something real sarcastic or at least witty to say next time this happens, but I don’t know if I should. I feel bad for people sincerly trying to build this ‘business’. Saying a smart a** remark might just solidify their commitment to the cause and push them further in, thought it would be fun to see a shocked reaction.:)
All I know is DO NOT GET INVOLVED with LIFE/TEAM, and if you do, only to change your mind quickly, and try to back out…, they will make you do “Dog and Pony Shows,” to unbelievable degrees to get your money back. The “30 day money back,” thing is ridiculous. Never have I seen so many forms, emails, and “jumping through hoops,” to get a simple refund for an overpriced, antiquated book, and CD series. For almost two months now I’ve been fighting with LIFE Support to get my money back.
On a brighter note, depending on how one looks at it, though my family members spent money they didn’t have on this whole, “send Orrin on his exoctic vacation’s just so he can take more pictures and put them into books with he and Chris Brady’s dumb quotes, and charge $24.95,”…, my son in law has decided to go back to work instead of listening to Orrin tell him to support a wife, and two little kids by pushing a MLM which will never put food on anyone’s table other than Orrin’s. Thing that makes me mad, is my family members spent two years with Mona Vie, and a year on LIFE, eating ramen noddles, and going without medical care. Orrin and Chris are tools all right.
Djleaky~
Sounds as if they are making it so others have to jump through hoops to get what they are guaranteeing and what they are using as a ‘selling point’…
No questions asked; 30 day money back guarantee.
Not surprised that you would have this type of jumping through hoops, experience. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised and Imo, they are counting on most people just walking away to never ask for the refund because most don’t and then never have anything to do with them again. I hope more that quit follow through and hold them to the guarantee, like you are.
Through our entire business experience; I don’t recall 1 person who got a refund from the Team Office, or the PC, it all was pushed off on the Platinum or turbo leaders to give ALL refunds. Clever how everything was pushed off on the lower leaders but Orrin & Co., ‘claimed’ the BBB rating and bragged about the ‘culture’ which most have experienced, it isn’t quite what they bragged it up to be.
They forced the ‘responsibility’ on the leaders below them to take the losses, because it was supposedly, ‘their own businesses.’ Riiight… but those same leaders were NOT allowed in their ‘own business’, decision making. Orrin and the “Policy Counsel” makes those decisions and had those leaders had to eat all the losses out of their own pockets for refunds, certain opens, seminars, etc.. for the PC, who then made the decisions for your supposed ‘independent business owners’.. biggest lie ever, IMO.
I wonder what the PC would list out exactly that every single ‘independent business owner’ actually owns all the way from the brand new guy they told to ‘get started’ in their own business, all the way to the PC and what part they ‘own’? That should go under the ‘questions’ thread.
Sounds like if too many people begin to have the same experience you are having with; jumping hoops to get a refund, it won’t take long for complaints to stack up against them.
What is the hold up or did you ever get your refund?
If you can explain more of what they are doing, then it could help others, avoid the same bs to get their refund quicker.
Thanks for sharing and Congrads.. to your son-in-law for making the right decison he beleives is best for his family.
Another sickening story of TEAM garbage. Thanks for sharing DJ hopefully your story will prevent others from getting sucked in.
File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. I know for a fact the office was adamant that they made sure any complaints were handled to the customer’s satisfaction because they wanted to be able to point to a good rating with the BBB. Not sure if that has changed lately, but it won’t hurt to have some complaints logged for future prospects to see.
It saddens me that you have keyhole vision. What is wrong with bettering yourself, bettering your family, your friends, your neighbourhoods, your towns, your cities, your country, your world?
Of course it costs money! Everything costs money. People buy self help books all the time! But what team does that is different, is they give you mentoring, friendship and community. LIFE does not HIDE the fact that there is a cost….. You pay for education. You pay for life coaches. You pay for everything in life. LIFE and TEAM give back. You get some back of what you spend. You get back what other people spend. More importantly, you help people.
LIFE is not for everyone. I have seen thousands of lives bettered because people in the LIFE business and TEAM are genuinely helping people reach their full potential. They just don’t sell books and cd’s. They come to your house to counsel you. To save your marriage. To help with parenting, finances, health, fun and character building.
How do I know this? Because that is what I do! WITH PRIDE.
I challenge you to publish this side by side with your article.
LIFE is an open book and is run by the top leadership leaders of the world. Not one leader, Orrin Woodward, but TWO TOP leaders of the world, Chris Brady. It was voted the best leadership business in the world!!!
Its not a scam, its a way of LIFE, that teaches principals, character, integrity. It raises people’s confidence in themselves. Helps families grow and learn together. It raises humanity and social conscious.
And yes, we all make money doing it. So does every other business in the world. EVERY ONE. Our competitors are Chapters, Indigo, etc, but we offer community, support, mentorship with the products. And yes, it costs money to get in, like buying steel toed boots for a job, you need tools for this job too.
Lisa Sauve
Independent Member
The LIFE Business
Lisa:
Let’s start with a few questions related to your comment:
1) Regarding the leadership guru status of Orrin and Chris. Read why this is a sham and fabrication: http://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/arthur-carmazzi-the-truth-behind-leadershipgurus-net-orrin-woodward-and-chris-brady/
2) Who exactly voted this the best leadership business in the world? IAB? They “voted” Orrin as the best leadership blog, not the best leadership business.
3) What’s the status with MonaVie and TEAM these days? How did that arrangement work out with TEAM over the past three years before the launch of LIFE?
More legitimate questions posed to TEAM LIFE members can be found here.
“Its not a scam, its a way of LIFE, that teaches principals, character, integrity”
Thanks for this, I was having a bad day until I read this little nugget of humor.
“LIFE is an open book and is run by the top leadership leaders of the world. Not one leader, Orrin Woodward, but TWO TOP leaders of the world, Chris Brady. It was voted the best leadership business in the world!!!”
Lisa, you obviously have not read the facts on the leadership blog fiasco that orrin and chris are in. Orrin woodward is nothing more than a coveteous, idolatrous, vain, narcissistic, lying, anti-christ, scam artist.
Dear Lisa
What are your profits each year? Just bookkeeping numbers in dollars please? No story how wonderful LIFE is, how many friends you have, I know that.
BTW Life is wonderful, you are right, but not OW’s LIE(F).
Dear Amthrax
Sigh, it seems that people sometimes have to fall very hard before they are willing to open their eyes. I never understood the biblical story about seduction but I am starting to understand it now. Why would God have given us brains individually if God wanted us to act as if we were one collective.
Lately, I cannot stop the similarity these people show with the “borgs” (for someone who does not know, this is the most feared living entity in the Star Trek series that, with force, assimilates other cultures into one collective, and takes control over the thinking of the individuals without them even knowing. Sounds familiar?
OMG, Lisa you are saying you would come to my house and COUNSEL me, to save my marriage, to help with parenting, finances, health, fun and character building?
And what, my dear, are your credentials? Oh, you’ve been to a few seminars? Listened to some CDs? Read some books?
Let me tell you something, sweetie. I used to give those seminars. I used to be on lots of CDs. I was even mentioned in a few of those books. I was closer to Orrin and Laurie Woodward than you can ever hope to be, because I was up close and personal WAY back when. I watched the evolution of a great idea turned rotten and corrupt. I watched a man become an expert scam artist and manipulator of human emotion right before my eyes. He and his henchmen are EXPERT at deceiving people (who are willing to be deceived) that they are serving some noble purpose with their lives.
You don’t want to believe it, but the only purpose you are serving is to put money, and lots of it, in Woodward and Brady and policy council pockets. Period.
Great Comments from all and BTW~ Me, I have been meaning to tell you the quote you used:
“There is enough in the world for everyone’s need, but not enough for everyone’s greed” [Frank Buchman Remaking the World].” Amazing and Thank You~
Oh Poor Lisa Sauve~
When did you get started…Yesterday? I have to reiterate; Amthrax’s question..And your comment here; is just histerical:
“LIFE is an open book and is run by the top leadership leaders of the world. Not one leader, Orrin Woodward, but TWO TOP leaders of the world, Chris Brady. It was voted the best leadership business in the world!!!”
I don’t think you realize what you have just said here or what blog you have found yourself on, Lisa.
Where is the ‘votes’ in the entire WORLD that makes what you claim; to be so? Tell me you really don’t believe that amongst every ‘leader’ in the WORLD you actually believe..orrin & chris are the TOP? As Amthrax stated if you are talking about the IAB, then you might want to find out the truth before you state what you have. Please THINK about what you have said. Although, I could not stop laughing, it is quite a serious matter for you to spreading those claims to everyone. Please show us where you have gotten that data.
Also you say: “And yes, we all make money doing it. So does every other business in the world. EVERY ONE. “
Please show us the facts on where EVERY ONE makes money doing it. But Lisa.. you obviously haven’t and don’t understand the comp plan, take some time to do that? You can find that on here at the sidebar along with the Lief Policy & Procedures? You really should read it before you came here to comment. Oops…you gave your name on this site Lisa Sauve, so if I were you I would read the P&P and what you have legally tied yourself to. What they can take and what could happen to your ‘business’ by you being on this site. Good luck with that.
Lisa Sauve, you are a prime example of why these scams continue. You simply are overly zealous, captured emotionally and excited with no understanding of any facts or truth about what and who you are really a part of. You are repeating exactly what you hear, are brand new and that is extremely evident by your posts.
Do yourself a favor; please do your research, especially before coming to this blog or at least read the blog, where there are many decades of experience with the people (orrin, chris etc) you so blindly and falsely promote and are following.
Trust me; it will save you a ton of embarrassment. I know you currently don’t know any better or have a clue.
Lisa, Lisa, Lisa…where do you get off saying that your mentors help people with finances? Do you realize the many leaders speaking on Team’s stages giving financial advice and they have filed for bankruptcy?
I know a guy that lived in a $900K home, had a great job, and a great life when he got into Team. He mentored personally with Orrin and Tim. He quit his job so the Team could boast of another person set free from Corporate America. He was on many CDs and spoke all over the country.
Today he lives in an apartment and works 12 hours a day trying to pay off all of the debt that he accrued while he was with Team. This is directly related to the financial advice he got from Orrin, your number one leader in the world. His story is no different from the many people that “made it big” working their asses off to line Orrin’s pockets. He won’t talk about his days on Team, but I wish he would because he is hurting.
I’ll pass on your advice and help, I am doing just fine now that I am FREE of Team. Orrin Woodward is exactly as Team Deception wrote above at 12:05pm today. Very eloquently stated bro!
Lisa, Lisa, Lisa… this will be fun. Most other TEAM/LIEfers have better arguments than that.
Answer this question: What percentage of your team is losing money right now?
Lisa said: “Of course it costs money! Everything costs money. People buy self help books all the time! But what team does that is different, is they give you mentoring, friendship and community. LIFE does not HIDE the fact that there is a cost.”
The bottom line buried in your words is that LIEf offers one the chance to buy friendship. We all know that friendships that have to be bought have no value. No need to comment on that any further.
Lisa said: “They just don’t sell books and cd’s. They come to your house to counsel you. To save your marriage. To help with parenting, finances, health, fun and character building.”
So in addition to trying to rip people off by selling them these monotonous recycled worthless cult CDs, the distributors are now expected to act as marriage and financial consultants and to make house calls? The absurdity of that scenario needs no further illustration either.
Lisa said: “LIFE is an open book and is run by the top leadership leaders of the world. Not one leader, Orrin Woodward, but TWO TOP leaders of the world, Chris Brady. It was voted the best leadership business in the world!!!”
It’s the exact opposite of an open book and the company’s leaders have no legitimate basis to claim that they are at the top of any list, other than perhaps the $hit lists of quite a few people here. Do you not realize that those leadership awards are worthless and purposely intended to deceive? You should conduct at least some cursory research before belching out this blatant nonsense. Credible sources like Forbes magazine don’t think much of Orrin’s leadership qualities. They painted a portrait of him as the pied piper of a crooked pyramid scheme built around sales tools – in other words, an accurate representation.
Lisa said: “Its not a scam, its a way of LIFE, that teaches principals, character, integrity. It raises people’s confidence in themselves. Helps families grow and learn together. It raises humanity and social conscious.”
It’s a scam by every possible definition of the term; and one so demanding of its victims that they are expected to make it a way of LIEf. The so-called leaders do nothing more than pay lip service to all those positive attributes you mention; in reality they are lying, thieving, hypocrites, and they chew up and spit out far, far more people than they help. LIFE is clearly a liability to society.
Lisa said: “And yes, we all make money doing it.”
No you don’t; not by a long shot. Why lie about it?
Vogel I thank you.
Vogel~You kill me..lmao!
Das~ That is way too sad, make sure if you speak with him to let him know there are many on here who understand his pain, we are all rooting for him, and look forward to the day Justice gets served!
He is not alone and will come back stronger and wiser because of his experience; with the Charlatans.
Lisa – “Life is an open book” – then ask Orrin about the $3 million he received from MonaVie after all those years of lying and claiming that he recevied nothing and was sacrificing so everyone else could benefit.
Ask to see the books to see how much he was really sacrificing. Many have estimated he was earning as much as $400,000-$700,000 per MONTH on tools while he was claiming to be sacrificing. Why is it that noone was allowed to see the books?
Why is it that none of us were ever allowed to know what formula was used to calculate profit-sharing? Why is it that people have now found out that some people with small businesses were paid larger amounts than people who had bigger businesses and these ‘chosen’ ones who received the larger bonuses happened to suck up to Orrin more? What kind of integrity is that in a pay plan?
Ask orrin why Pastor Dickie, his own personal pastor wants nothing to do with Orrin. Ask Orrin why so many of his closest inner circle left after finding out the true orrin during the trial.
Ask yourself, why would you agree to a policy & proceedure which allows someone to take your entire business away for any reason they choose without any true recourse?
If they are an open book, then why did they hide the bankruptcies of so many RT’s and PC’s until someone on the internet found the information? If they were a true open book, they would have revealed it sooner.
If they were a true open book, they would open the records to show exactly how much the PC members were making compared to their Quixtar & MonaVie incomes all that time when they tried to give the impression Quixtar & monaVie were their main income sources
If they were an open book, they would not re-write history and try to make it sound like all these people give Team credit for their success. Many of Team’s biggest leaders had hit Diamond in Quixtar & Amway year’s before Orrin ever started Team.
I could go on and on. Bottom line, stop trying to throw people off track by distracting people with claims of helping people. Team has hurt tens of thousands of people and lied, decieved and stolen businesses from so many people. Do some real research Lisa and beware, many people were fooled by Hitler and Jim Jones too.
the above are based on my personal beliefs and experiences.
Vogel, the whole “buying friendship” thing jumped out at me too. Lisa says “But what team does that is different, is they give you mentoring, friendship and community. LIFE does not HIDE the fact that there is a cost….. You pay for education”.
I don’t know anyone that buys “friendship & community”, that in itself is fairly pathetic. Do YOU Have to buy your friends? Doesn’t that make you sad on the inside to have to acknowledge that? Seriously, how many friends outside of TEAM Lief do you have? Does anyone outside of TEAM Lief even talk to you anymore?
As far as buying “mentoring”, the concept started out as a noble one, where a person would (free of charge) take another under their wing and help guide them and teach them whatever it was was that was being learned. No books were sold, no lifestyles sold, no souls sold.
Would you like the definitions of a true friends,communities & mentors Lisa? Ones that will be there even if you stop LITERALLY buying their sh*t. I can guarantee you that you will not have a) b) or c) once the cash flow stops.
This part of what you said terrifies me. I seriously just had a visceral reaction when I read this. “They come to your house to counsel you. To save your marriage. To help with parenting, finances, health, fun and character building.”. You understand that NONE of you are qualified to do this right?? You also understand that it is a prime indicator of a cult, non-qualified people instructing others on personal and health issues? Not only do you indicate that this happens within TEAM Lief but you say you also DO this. Stop it. You have absolutely no RIGHT to do this and you should be ashamed of yourself. You are not a marriage counsellor, a pediatric/child counsellor or a financial counsellor. You keep your sanctimonious, arrogant, unqualified & uneducated nose out of other people’s lives. It is bad enough that you take their money.
Your competitors are Chapters and Indigo books? How is that again? I don’t see the salespeople from Chapters comiing into my house and telling me how to live my life…or that if I don’t buy $200 worth of books a month and sell those books to my friends, I am a loser and not trying hard enough. I don’t see them asking to bring my friends and family in to sell them books. Oh, I see…because you both sell books?
You are involved in, and are perpetrating a fraud. I just hope that you feel some modicum of shame when this whole thing implodes.
“Ask orrin why Pastor Dickie, his own personal pastor wants nothing to do with Orrin.”
Now,….that one should be interesting. I’m sure you’d get a perfectly fine explanation from O. You think you’re up to the task, ms. Sauve?
“They come to your house to counsel you. To save your marriage. To help with parenting, finances, health, fun and character building.”
Ya, this is not good. We had signed up some friends of ours and they were in the business for awhile but were having some marital problems as well as an addiction to prescription medication. Our upline saw this as a “project”! He told them that he could relate because he too was an addict. Now an addict of what he fail to mention to them, but because of long road trips with him we know. Are you ready for this….. Fast food Cheeseburgers! He feels the need to stop and eat cheeseburgers when on the road before showing the plan. Yes, I am aware that people have food addictions, but to compare his cheeseburger addiction to a prescription drug addiction and try to “coach” him through that! Also, the “mentors” in this situation were newly married with only one child which nearly brought them to divorce because they didn’t know how to work together as parents since they were always gone showing the plan, and now, within about 2 months of telling us this, they are out “repairing” other people marriages, marriages of people who have multiple children of mixed families and many more years of marriage experience which they are claiming to know so much about! Now I know these instances are not the same as those that have filed bankruptcy or foreclosed on there houses and then out giving financial advice. Or others who go out and tell you how to “parent” your children when the unmentionable is happening with theirs.(in my own opinion). This just shows the depths that Team goes to to keep everything within them because if anyone goes outside of TEAM for advice then the advice will not go in favor of the TEAM. LIsa, start asking more questions. As Vogal stated about “buying friends” just think about that. It is so true. The second you decide to be done with TEAM those “friends” will be done with you. And then you will be out apologizing to all your old friends who were actually your friends to begin with until TEAM told you they weren’t. Good luck to you Lisa!
Sick, sick, sick that you have to buy mentoring, friendship, and community with TEAM/Lie(f). Last time I checked I can get all this for free, yes FREE, at my neighborhood local church. If I feel compelled to pay for community and friendship then I can buy some via the dues to my local Lions, Rotary, etc. club. These outlets provide true community, true friendships, and truly make neighborhoods, communities, cities, etc. better.
The difference between churches/service clubs and Lie(f) is the sincerity in wanting to make the community better, not scam your neighbors out of their money.
One other thought, the health insurance plan provided to me through my employer includes life coaching. You just have to decide if you want to take advantage of it.
So, why would I pay someone with no credentials to provide me life coaching when I’m already provided this. Oh, and the services I get through my employer come from people who actually have some real qualifications.
Amen……..like a liscense, years of training and ethical oaths and people overseeing their work to make sure it stays ethical!
I second that Amen!
Lisa is clue less as you have all pointed out. I can name 3 couple that our now divorced that got counseling from mu former up lines. I also know of deeply intimate details couple shared in counseling sessions with our former up lines. Yes they call it counseling and then tell others intimate details of their bedroom life to others while laughing and making fun of them. They are not qualified and should be held liable for their “advice”. They are dangerous and for every success story they claim there are 100 failed stories. Just in why I have witnessed in our team is enough to make you sick. They claim to live biblically and then they live anything but biblically. Arrogant, prideful and narcissistic ……….and they don’t even know it………..
WOW das that is a shame
Finally~
Is that what they consider ‘results’ from their ‘world class coaching’,?…how sad is that.
This is what the ‘guru’ says about mentoring others:
“Leaders must confront & address their own issues before earning the right to mentor others through their issues.”
Questions?
How does the ‘mentoree’ know when the ‘mentor’ has ‘confronted & addressed their own issues’ and would be qualified to take their ‘mentoring advice?’
Do they have the ‘mentoring police’ checking up on all the ‘mentors’ so they don’t hurt others or how do they ‘measure’ when someone has ‘earned it’ and who holds them accountable for their ‘mentorship’?
I don’t recall this being in their P&P. Do they ‘vote’ others out, take their teams and re-distribute them if they are giving bad mentorship or haven’t ‘earned that right’?
Who are the PC accountable to, if they are giving bad mentorship?
According to many of the things stated from 1st hand experiences and others experiences, it is evident no one is held accountable and it seems some have given some serious and terrible ‘mentoring’ or ‘advice.’
IMO, the biggest and most dangerous issue is none of them are held accountable by anyone, anywhere, and they say their mentorship is free but we all know you are charged a whole lot indirectly for that ‘free’ service and none of them are qualified IMO. You are paying for that autoship and the ‘free’ mentorship is just thrown in?LOL
They would just blame the mentoree anyway, for their bad advice.
They want everyone to believe without a ‘mentor you won’t go anywhere and there is a lot of truth to that because of the favortism.
Geez, How would they know who to favor or report on you too; something I know from experience that they do?
All my comments are based on my opinions, and experience.
What a talented group of individuals are working together on this site in pursuit of truth. Great stuff!
Lisa…
Not only is it bad enough that you have to pay for ‘friendship’ in TEAM but essentially you are paying money to brainwash yourself :0
I second that Freedomhaha… I cannot wait for the day that this whole TEAM thing blows over
This part of Lisa’s post highlights the degree to which Orrin and Co. are capable of fleecing people:
“LIFE does not HIDE the fact that there is a cost….. You pay for education. You pay for life coaches. You pay for everything in life. LIFE and TEAM give back. You get some back of what you spend. You get back what other people spend. More importantly, you help people.”
1. “LIEF does not hide the fact that there is a cost”…neither do Universities/Colleges, ‘Life Coaches’, Therapists, Councilors, etc….what’s different with LIEF is LIEF members have no qualifications (as mentioned by other posters) to adminsiter such councilling or teaching services. Therapists, Councilors, Professors, etc. have qualifications and in many cases licenses to practice.
2. “You pay for everything in life.”…Umm, you don’t pay for friendships, relationships, love, commraderie…but you do pay for these things as a LIEF member…to get around ‘leaders’ you always have to shell out $$ in the form of tickets or PV qualifications (i.e. spending more money on shit you don’t need or by scamming others to become members.)
3. “LIFE and TEAM give back”…Like how they “give back” to their charity that Laurie, Lana, and other LIEFers are Board Members of. Can I get a “TAX DEDUCTION”?!
This is my favorite:
4. “You get some back of what you spend. You get back what other people spend” … so Lisa, you profit off of other people’s cash outputs. You profit off of other people spending their money. There you have it folks…Lisa confirmed to us unenlightened outsider failures that…LIFE is naught but an internal consumption pyrimid scheme…oh…OH…but they HELP people…and so what, everything is a pyrimid right? Big corporations, government, everything is a pyrimid…except they’re not.
Cults are a scary powerful thing. It never ceases to amaze me how we humans are so susceptable to our own psychology if we’re not careful to not get caught up in emotion and ego…if we’re not careful to put our egoic thoughts on ice and critically examine facts, evidence, solid information and documentation…we end up like poor Lisa here, justifying making money off of people who are in the cash flow negative.
LIEF is not a symbiotic relationship betweem members…it’s a parasitic relationship. The Parasite Council (PC) benefits off of the community by sucking every last dollar they can out of the group…the group bleeds cash never to be seen again. A few scraps are thrown out here and there just to keep the dream alive.
As I reread Lisa’s letter, her “logic” almost makes me physically ill. Lie(f) is supposedly all about “community” and “helping” people in Lisa’s world. That seems to happen as a natural course of real life. My commuity has churches, civic organizations, help organizations (like food pantries, and homeless shelters), children’s clubs, etc. Everyone in my community benefits from these groups. I can get services from many of these groups for free. I get natural community from these groups, not the artificial community created with an MLM. The people in these groups actually sincerely care about each other. They are in it to truly help their community and their fellow man. They are not in it to milk their neighbors for money. I don’t need someone peddling a “business” to provide this for me. It is already freely up and working in my community. If you are truly about helping your community, I suggest you plug into an organization that is actually about helping the community.
As for the autoship and competing with other booksellers, why is the local library/sharing purchased books with others mentioned as a legitimate option? Autoship sounds so controlling. Why would I pay for someone to send me a product that I don’t necessarily want that just creates clutter in my house? And, why would I sacrifice my freedom of choice in what media I want to consume? Aren’t you placing all kinds of unnecessary guilt on these people by forcing them to purchase something they don’t want.
BTW – the comment about seeing thousands of lives bettered because of Lie(f) is just beyond comical. This “business” has been around since November. Really, THOUSANDS.
I have been to standing-room-only funerals where the deceased gave of him/herself for the community with no consideration of ‘what’s in it for me’. I don’t think they will have that problem at Orrin’s funeral.
Lisa? Surely we all must be wrong… help us fix our “stinking thinking”.
Everyone is entitled to their option. Not everyone is qualified to give me advice. IMHO, only those who have done better than me/achieved more than me have earned the right to give me advice. Tell you what Lisa, fax over to me your profit and loss and your net worth statements. If you’re doing better in LIEF than I’m doing in my business, I’ll listen to you. Otherwise, as my granddad used to say “Opinions are like as*holes, everyone’s got one”
PS As for helping others, I’m the founder of a grassroots charity focused on relief and development. Not one person has ever had to pay one dime to receive our help and assistance. Can’t say the same of LIEF now can you, Lisa?
Mesha- I love it! Your paying money to essentially brainwash yourself!
That is is exactly what it is in my opinion after years of experience. They’re paying Team/LIFE to strip them of the ability to critically think, to tear down their self esteem telling them they are not good enough leaders and need to change the way they think. They are brainwashed by the cds and fake environment and fake friendships. They become trapped in a cycle of forever spending their money and precious time building a supposed business, that they think they are not good enough to build! All the while the comp plan has been stacked against them and the all their money and time is going to the top! Prospects are being lied to and have no idea the people who are supposedly successful in LIFE have been in the business a decade or two, brought their’s and in Orrin’s case others’ teams to LIFE from Amway. Orrin’s numbers attending functions have dropped dramatically over the past few years, and they have used deception to keep the lies going! I.e. Volume loading to hit pins etc. Orrin has given teams in LIFE to whoever he favors and taken teams and income from other leaders who built the communities for years!
* all my comments are my opinions and/or experiences with Team, Orrin Woodward and/or his cohorts.
Thanks webelieved
Here is something I found on a lifer’s Face Book page:
L.I.F.E. founder Dan Hawkins SAVED their marriage years ago through the L.I.F.E. principles and will be speaking on marriage as well as finances in Wausau Wi TONIGHT at 5:00. This LIFE Leadership growth program is sweeping NORTH AMERICA getting people their marriage, finances, family and LIFE back. Only $35!
It reminds me of the CD by Claude and Lana Hamilton, they changed their story to reflect that they got started when they listened to some Team CDs…blah blah blah, when in fact the Team was not even in existence when Claude and Lana got started. Why the need for all of the lies? Claude has no doubt changed his story again that he listened to a L.I.F.E. CD and that is what changed his life years ago.
Did Dan really use L.I.F.E. principles years ago to save his marriage? I was thinking L.I.F.E. just started last November.
I remember asking my RT upline why they felt the need to lie like that about their stories, and he had no answer.
To top it off, what an arrogant post…”Dan Hawkins SAVED their marriage”. Wow, what a hero, maybe he should be called “Superman” instead of Tim.
Did Claude and Lana really listen to a Team CD 17 years ago? That’s how long they have supposedly been with Team.
das~
The Hamilton’s 17 years ago, listening to a LIEf changing CD?
Sshhh, that’s a ‘secret’…That would have been an AMWAY TAPE…
Who doesn’t want to mention Amway/Quixtar again, huh uh…thought so? Why do they all deny they were in Amway? We need Tony on this one?…lol
Incredible that these guy’s are into ‘re-writing history’..stories of how the ‘system’ is so life changing. If you were a speaker in Team they ‘guided’ (lol speaker guidelines) your speaches and were there for you to ‘share how the system changed your life.’
It was Dream, Struggle, Victory.. as your ‘story’ line-up.
. Most people have had numerous coaches, friends, pastors, parents, neighbors, grandparents, etc.. all through life that have had an impact and who have helped in ‘changing’ their lives, but the LIEfers don’t want you to give the credit where credit is due. They want the ‘credit’ for everything. This is a shame to deny others of their honor and credit.
It is ALWAYS how great Orrin or Laurie, the ‘upline’, and ‘system’ are; you are to give ALL the credit to your life changing moments to those things. Trust me they will try and critique your talks either directly or indirectly (through someone)..especially if you aren’t giving them ALL the credit..lol.
WHY do they do this? It is to control, what they want others to ‘believe’ and to follow suit.
Dan and Lisa got a good marriage from team Lief??? Hmmmm let’s see, they took teams that didn’t belong to them, knowingly I might add, to get them to PC, that’s stealing another’s income. You can bet they are not telling their kids about how they got those teams and system counts, that’s lying, They have slandered team mates that have left to keep those that stayed in, that is flat out cruel and wrong. So let’s see, they have stolen, lied and slandered and do this in the name of what is right??????? Best of luck to them!!!
Oaky, so if people knew the truth, the whole truth, would they still attend? Probably not and if you were a team Leifer and you came across a righteous man, let’s say Jesus (I am using him for effect) would he sit down listen to your plan and listen to your cd’s and join? Keeping in mind that he knows the truth…….I only say this not because I am above the Liefer’s but because they portray their business in such a way that they do no wrong and are only in it to help people and the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. They are in it to get richer and richer. Orrin and the PC need a failure rate,( failure rate being the percentage of people putting more in the pot than they are getting paid out of it), of 95+% to keep their lifestyles. Many who understand the comp plan have explained it over and over again both here and in other forums. This is fact according to the numbers, so how in the world does that benefit someone? Especially since none of the team that I know of are qualified “marriage counselors”. They are taking advantage of people. I know of three couples that took marriage advice from our former up lines and I understand there are more than that, that have gotten divorced and the divorce can be directly correlated to team and the wedge driven between man and wife by the advice given by mentor’s. In my opinion that is criminal and there will be a day when we all have to answer for what we have done, especially those that do things in the name of Christ as team has so often done….. That day will not be pretty…………….
These people claim that they are “leaders.” Leaders in what? If I want help with some problem in my life, I don’t want a “leader,” I want someone who will actually help me with my problem. Who are these people? Why do they think they are “leaders” in all these areas?
For example, if I help with marriage issues, I would (for example) want someone like James Dobson. If I wanted financial advise, I would look to a Dave Ramsey. These people are actually leaders in their fields, but they don’t have to prove their leadership. And, this information is not a one-stop shop. Maybe James Dobson knows finances, but I wouldn’t think of him as a financial go-to guy. And, I wouldn’t consider Dave Ramsey as a marriage go-to guy.
So, do Orrin and company really think they can compete with the likes of Dobson, Ramsey, etc. at the same time? If they can, why do they promote their “leadership” skills so much? A real leader has no reason to do that. These real leaders have worked hard for years building their skills and reputations. Appears to me that all Orrin has done for years is build his skills as a scam artist.
What a crock of $hit. I wonder how long the “meeting” lasted? Anybody stay for the “night owl” on how to save your marriage? Who knows, maybe it’s still going….you know, the meeting after the meeting…blah, blah, blah. This is getting better, and better every day.
5 1/2 months in on this new nightmare, and all of a sudden it’s, “sweeping North America”?????
LMAO!
Actually I would go to McDonalds Hamburger U and question their system, and I am sure they would answer my questions and tell me why they do things they way they do.
Ask any TEAM LIFE person why they do things the way that do and see what responses you get.
Not signed up yet-
Good point. A legitament business won’t mind you asking questions. I remember how people in my upline would get so huffy whenever questions were asked.. but then turn around and say they were open to questions.
Mesha~
Isn’t it astonshing how they pretend to have the answers in all areas, in everyone’s life, but when they are held to their word they can’t pass the ‘acid test’; they fail miserably….and the only thing remaining.. is their hypocrisy.
Yes it is speak… it’s just downright crazy. How can it be ‘ Christian’ to call people with jobs stupid? The attitude was how dare you as a broke person come in here and question what millionaires do? They say we are doing you a favor by introducing you to this business… and then proceed to tell me about how people who don’t want to do the business are lazy, don’t have big dreams, stupid, yada yada.. but then tell me that I am special because those who dare to do something different are special because special people do this business…. What a load of crock.
Your site has some truths and half truths. I’m writing in to share these with others. I have been in team for almost a year.When people are showed the plan the presenter, who is new is trained by the person who got him in. This.can.cause a problem in duplication if the person who got him in didn’t share.the plan which could have been taught poorly or somethings overexaggerated. My point is.this is a.word of mouth business andto get the whole picture I would.advise a new person to go to asK the person who contaced u to go to a webcast. Somethings.on this site are exaggerated and the.person who contacted u isn’t perfect and might be new, so its possible to.get the wrong idea of this business. The.leaders on the team are very strong and.are.growing. I believe this because there are.a lot of leaders. What is a leader: A person who influences others for a cause who has followers and builds other leaders. There is.a lot on team. On this site they claim Orrin Woodward basically to be a scam artist. Well first of all if he is, why does he have so many followers and leaders up and coming? Why would he preach integrity over and over and have it be a scam? I think this site is misleading, to say that Orrins intentions are bad. Who are.u to judge?
So is team a scam? I asked this? What do want? Team is not for everyone. Do u want to improve yourself?Do u want some extra motivation in your life? are u lopking for some honest truth in your life, maybe a little wisdom. how bout to share it with others. The point is this. For me this is what I wanted anyway: heres some positives about team that ive found: It doesnt cost a lot to get in, work on improving oneself, I can learn prin iples from cds and business in car, I get payed for showing thos to others, We work as a.team, we build communities which is neededanyway, build leaders, which is needed on this country. Are there negatives, yes as there is to everything, its called sacrifice. It will be tough, said by Orrin hiself, u will have to put some money in if u want do well(it is optional thou), also depends on how quick u pick things up. U will have to make a commitment. Once again the point I’m trying to make all on all is this: Team is all about long term success, if your willing to sacrificialice some short term things, u can be successful in this business. Team for me has helped me for the good, ive been better in relationships, the structure helped me to define my purpose, helped with my leadership skills, helped me to share my faith. have I made a lot of money, right now, no. But honestly I havent been doing the work. So on the business side I havent been successful, yet. MY opinion is if it works for u, do it, if there is good seek it, and if there is truth share it. I believe Orrin is the real deal, is his business perfect, no. He has taught good principles, which I find to be true. The info he shares I find to be inspiring and insightful.
This business is not a rich quick scheme, as in any business there is sacrifice.
as for me I havent seen another business like this. Have u? For me its a whole package: leadership, purpose, and all the 8 fs and yes I do plan to make money. Im in this business for all of these and.yes the community. So if u dont want.to join or quit fine with me, its your life, dont waste it! This country is in a dilema, either we blame others or we start changing ourselves and start talking about real answers. There is good in team and they stand for good principles. Money is not evil, using money for evil purposes is evil. So the worst thing u could do is sign up for team and.do nothing. So whatever u do, do something, for me and a lot of others team is something special.
[Editor's note: March 20, 2012: Added paragraph tags. Found this comment in spam moderation and just posted it. It was one of Chris' initial comments on the site.]
Mesha- The way the PC uses faith is NOT a Christian principal. It gets me fired up how they abuse the Lord’s name in the sake of greed. Absolutely horrible stuff.
Mesha~
I agree, very crazy! That is just it; it isn’t ‘Christian.’ It is corrupt to the core. Saying.. You are a ‘Christian,’ doesn’t make it so. More like the devil in disguise, Imo. Some see right through the dark façade, some it takes a long time and ‘wake-up’ call, and sadly the others fall for it. Do their actions follow their words?…Not in our experience; far from it! They go through the ‘motions,’ pay A LOT of lip service to ‘Christianity’, to earn others trust, mixed with a few other cult tricks, so they won’t ‘question’ anything! When Orrin’s mentor and Pastor (for years) have nothing to do with Orrin, the PC, or the Team; that should speak volumes to how ‘Christian’ they really are.
Imo, they are believable fakers and very good at it right up until they get found out and are tested; but it makes for a good draw to at least pretend you are a ‘Christian’ and instantly gives people the ‘impression’ they can be ‘trusted.’ It is the worst kind of abuse, but they are good at using and abusing it. I know people who have questioned their faith, and many millions over decades have been tricked and damaged spirtitually because of it. Their twisted and justified thinking is that they have led a few to Christ… ‘so look at the ones we have helped.’ The end justifies the means in their greedy minds and hearts.
Jim Jones, David Koresh, L. Ron Hubbard and many more, all probably claim they too, drew a lot of people to Christ, but did they really with a pure heart and gain that by others free will? And does losing and damaging many hundreds of thousands or millions collectively, to gain a few, justify it? I think not! No one knows for sure how they or anyone will answer for this, but I don’t believe there will be a ‘negotiation process’ or will they be told “Well done my good and faithful servant.” I don’t believe you will be able to trick, bully, twist the truth, or spin it in the end; nor use their justification of ‘see’… we gained a few…doesn’t that count for something? Justice does get served.
#1 trait of all criminals, cult leaders, and scammers; they have to earn the trust of their victims first, and what better way than to ‘use’ Christianity to gain that unquestionable trust.
All comments are based on my experience and opinion of course.
Everyone: Saw that one of Chris’ first comments on the site was in spam moderation. Just approved it. It gives some background on where he’s coming from.
I couldn’t agree more, I believe Chris is going through the ‘process’ of cognitive dissonance right before our eyes and believe he is here because of his doubts. Why are you here, Chris? I believe He is trying desperately to convince himself of what he ‘wants’ to believe. Chris, no one here wants to make anyone’s decisions for anyone in their lives but we do believe you should be able to have the (hidden) information to make a more informed decision and that is something the Team doesn’t want you to have. Why do you suppose that is, Chris?
We on here have obviously had some serious ‘negative’ experiences and found out the hard way. Ask yourself Chris, if something is true but seems negative, does it make it not true? Would you want to help someone if you knew they were being lied to? Why would the Team want to control the “negative truth” or information just because it is ‘negative’ but.. they say they ‘lead people to the truth?’ Why do suppose they have changed their name numerous times, Chris? How do you ‘lead people to the truth’ when you deliberately withhold information or try and cover it up? Are the facts negative or positive? How does this make sense, Chris?
For me at least it has become a strong pet peeve of mine and have become a major advocate for free thinking, because of what I learned from years of building and ‘practicing’ what is taught on the Team. This is what I learned, the sh*t and whole shebang strips others of their free thinking and when you read up on cults from the experts ( the correct sources) and if you don’t see the correlation, then unfortunately Imo, I believe you will have a long painful journey ahead of you. Study thought reform, undue influence, and mind control, cognitive dissonance and then decide and discern for yourself. It could save you a lot of heartache, emotional, mental and spiritual distress, and regret.
Chris we all went through the same ‘process’ , we know where you are and you are at a cross roads. You will either choose a road to a very painful process and losing proposition for the vast majority (see Life comp plan analysis) of chosing to find out through your own experience or you can learn from others years of experience and will see the facts objectively.
BTW~ Chris you said: ” I don’t believe that Orrin is this liar that u claim him to be.”
Chris, we know you would not see this, how could you, you said you have never met Orrin. You have only been bombarded constantly with the over the top (idolatry) ‘edification’ from every single person repeated over and over and over, there is a reason for this Chris, do you think it is by chance they heavily ‘edify?’ It is part of the ‘process’ to build trust and to remove doubt and can and do use it too strip others of their credibility in their teams, if ‘need be’.
So Chris how could anyone expect you to know or believe our experiences? You are tightly controlled and trained to shut out all negative truth and comments and have never been around Orrin as many have on here for years.
Does this seem normal in any other venue in your life, Chris? Is this how the Pastor of your church earned his reputation and builds trust from the congregation by having everyone in the church stand up every Sunday and ‘promote’ how great, honest, and Godly your Pastor is, create many websites to say so and repeat it every time is name is brought up anywhere any time? Or does your Pastor have to earn and prove he is trustworthy by his own practices? Is this a natural way people earn their reputation and trust in the real world, Chris or does that seem odd to you that in the Team it is automatically expected?
Back to Orrin lying, Here is a major lie..We were promised passive, residual, ongoing, willable, B-type income, for the rest of our lives. Have you been promised this Chris? They stole our income by taking our profit-sharing team so therefore well over a decade of building numbers and bringing large volume and multi-millions of dollars to Orrin & the PC, just poof, gone! Does that sound like a lie to you, Chris? How about the B-type business, Chris? Do you think you own a b-type business? (again see P&P, the cold hard facts) Who owns the Team Lief business, Chris? How could you possibly have a B-type business if you do not own it? Another LIE, Chris.
You obviously were not in when it was Amway/Quixtar, but that is where it all began, and has huge significance based on our experience, history, the system, and the deception practiced by Orrin (for 13 or 14 yrs) and the PC (they too all began in Amway). Why would Orrin want the majority part of the Team’s history being hidden? After all they are in to telling stories of how the ‘system’ changed everyone’s life, right Chris? You do hear this from every speaker, do you not, Chris?
Does the speakers and Orrin tell that part of the history from stages every where they speak, as he tells all his other stories (Baseball cards & the U.S. ski team), does it seem odd to you he doesn’t mention Amway or give the credit for his great start in his guru career? After all he tells all but that. As a matter of fact, Chris it is highly unlikely Orrin would ever even have his own MLM scam, if it weren’t for Amway? Do you think that part of the Team history then, would be significant? That is where he has learned and copied everything from. But then again how would you know that, you have only been in a year? How many lies and use of deceptive manipulative practices does it take, Chris?
Chris you are contradicting yourself in every defense you try and make. Remove yourself emotionally and use your common sense. Read the Life Primer, Life Policies & Procedures Analysis, Read a few of the stories.
You haven’t read the Policy & Procedures have you, Chris? Because if you had you would have already known you aren’t suppose to be on this site commenting or any site that has an ‘opposing view’. (Read the whole section under online conduct in the P&P)
(That is what I believe cult experts call “information control”). And you could lose ‘your’ (Orrin’s) business because of it.
Compare the P&P and practices of Team with the information you read here; http://freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php and see if you notice any connection.
Good luck to you, Chris. You are going to need it.
Maybe this isn’t the right thing to say, but Chris with your grammar you wouldn’t be taken seriously in the real business world. I don’t know the circumstances under which you are typing, but I will try to give you the benefit of the doubt. Everything that you are saying is pretty much useless until you can communicate in a an understandable form. Oh, that even what I can make out is off the wall crazy. I sincerely hope you see the light, brother.
God bless those that are struggling and seeking truth on this site. The members of this community are here for you, and do a great job at helping you with troubled times. Leaving a cult is never easy- we have all been there!
Random reflection:
Conversation with upline the day I told him that there was no way I could do this:
Upline: But you’ve had so much ‘information’! ( Yeah I’m not kidding, he actually did say that)
Me: Stunned silence. Then an ‘I’m sorry’
Now here in this post is all that ‘information’ being ‘leveraged’ haha!