Fifty+ Questions for TEAM LIFE
In the second of this two-part series, we cover the questions a prospect should ask a TEAM LIFE member following a TEAM LIFE Business Presentation. These are legitimate questions to ask when investigating the TEAM LIFE business.
Thanks to Mesha for submitting the first-batch of questions. Future updates to this page will have additional questions to ask. In addition, many of these questions are applicable to other MLM business opportunities.
- What does financially free specifically mean? Does this just mean job optional or rich? [In TEAM they would sometimes go back and forth, saying that in 3-5 years I could be 'rich' beyond my biggest dreams, then other times claiming that in 3-5 years I could replace my current job's income with TEAM.]
- How much time will TEAM/LIFE Business take to pursue? Can it really be only a ten hour a week business if I add up meetings, showing the plan, seminars, majors, follow ups, mentoring, driving time, listening, reading, etc.? If this business will eventually take up as much time as a job with the slim chance of making enough money to replace my job then is that really any better than having a job?
- Just how many people have become ‘financially free’ through TEAM/MV/LIFE?
- What is TEAM’s relationship with MonaVie today?
- How many members does TEAM have?
- How many people total are in my upline’s downline?
- If I sign up for this TEAM/LIFE thing and quit after signing up my friends, family, and/or coworkers, how will that impact my relationship with them?
- Does this claim of a passive, residual “B”-type income apply to TEAM profit sharing as well or only LIFE?
- Where are all the TEAM members who created their passive, residual B-type income and who retired from building their business? TEAM may tell you that everyone who has been successful has decided to come back and ‘help’ those who are just starting out of the goodness of their heart but, ask yourself why there are still Round Table members who have been in the business for years — some even ten years — and still haven’t hit Policy Council?
- Have you heard of anyone who quit the business still getting checks in the mail from the PV of their former downline?
- TEAM says that in a traditional business you are at a disadvantage because you have to rely upon others you hired to get the work done — and they may not get it done right. Plus if you run your own “S” business you are still trading time for money. But, in the LIFE business don’t you still have to rely upon your downline to recruit others? If you work TEAM for years are you not still trading time for money (or perhaps even nothing?)
- Why doesn’t TEAM talk more about investments when they show the plan?
- They say it’s important to own your own B-type business, BUT why does it say in the LIFE P&P that LIFE is not a franchise opportunity, but instead a membership? What, then, do you own?
- Why is the LIFE P&P so restrictive?
- What led to TEAM’s expulsion from Amway?
- When Orrin and company tried to sue Amway, he claimed that Amway was operating as an illegal pyramid scheme because the prices on Quixtar items where so high that he claimed it would create an internal consumption model. After Amway Orrin choose TEAM’s next MLM to be a $40/bottle fruit juice company during an economic turndown. Could his decision have been influenced by that $3 million dollar ‘loan’ he received from MonaVie?
- Why did Orrin participate in anonymous blogging when he encourages those in TEAM to stay away from negative critics?
- Why are there so few Policy Council and Round Table members? Why has only one new PC couple been added since Amway?
- They say that Orrin and The PC are only working to make your business better. The attitude is that they have already made it and are only helping those at the bottom out of benevolence, BUT ask yourself what they could gain out of this. Surely they are making at least some profit.
- Why is the system promoted like the Holy Bible at these meetings and on CD’s? How could this benefit Orrin and The PC?
- Why does Orrin Woodward still use the Top Ten Leadership Guru’s award to add to his credibility when this award was proven to be a sham? Why does he use the IAB award when this organization has a shady history? If Orrin Woodward is really a ‘leadership guru’ then why is he not mentioned more in mainstream media or even on non-TEAM websites?
- Someone may hear in TEAM that in this business you are building a community of consumers who act as a pipeline through which goods flow. BUT, a company cannot sustain itself by paying people to market their products if there are little or few retail customers. If the model is not focusing enough on outside consumption then this would be the equivalent of Wal-Mart paying for a community of loyal shoppers to shop there. Either the customers are only getting a percentage of their money back that they spent or the company is going to go bankrupt by paying customers more than what they all spent. How is LIFE any different?
- How many retail customers are there in LIFE (and I mean those who are not involved in ‘business’ building)?
- They say that your upline has a vested interest in your success because they don’t make money until you do but think about this. Okay, your upline doesn’t make money until you do. Now you are going to recruit friends and you won’t make money until they do, but they won’t make money until their friend’s do — on until infinity! How does this make any sense?
- If they say that they will help you build your team by putting people under you, ask yourself if that is that is for all your legs, or just below you on your upline’s leg that you joined? Do they really have anyone to put under you? Did they promise someone else you would be under them?
- They say this business is recession proof, but how are $50 a piece “self-help” subscription books and CD’s recession proof? It’s not a necessity.
- How come a lot of the LIFE subscriptions are recycled TEAM systems CD’s?
- They say that TEAM having its own MLM will allow the community to have more control over its business operations but could there also be a financial advantage to the top doing so?
- What qualifies anyone upline on TEAM to be a life coach?
- What is the difference between networking and community building?
- They say that the LIFE Business has the fairest compensation package in the industry but what percentages of people in the business are even able to break even after all expenses? How many people is it actually mathematically possible for to get the bonus checks?
- Yes, the ‘new person’ will most likely get a $7 check in the mail from their business, but how much did they spend to get that?
- Why on Earth is one of the ’8 F’s’ ‘following’? What the hell? Why is TEAM’s logo two pyramids? Are they trying to be funny?
- How come the IDS for MonaVie is so sorry looking?
- You say this business pays for itself if you hit Power Player once, but what you really mean is the $50 dollar subscription fee. If I factor in all the other business costs (opens, seminars, majors, materials to hand out to prospects, personal systems and subscription costs, cell phone, and gas money) then how does this business really pay for itself?
- How can this be a multi-billion dollar business if it has just started?
- Why were the LIFE testimonials up before the business even began?
- Where did the statistic that 90 percent of all businesses fail within the first few years come from? Does this stat-if true- make the LIFE business any better?
- If you can make more money than the person above you, then why would it be so important for one to hold their spot of ‘virtual real estate’?
- They say that those at the top had to start someplace [implying at the bottom, and therefore you can make it from the bottom too] but how does this make sense when those at the top who started first didn’t climb up but placed people below them?
- They say a job is a pyramid because usually your managers make more than you but does a job fit the FTC’s definition of a pyramid? Does a job focus more on recruitment that sale of actual products? Does one’s ability to earn money end when the population has saturated?
- In TEAM-world it appears that Orrin and Chris have developed a leadership development company as a mere provider of training information for those who want to build an MLM business, but is that really how it is? In Amway, TEAM got in trouble for advertising that they, instead of Amway, were the business opportunity. What percentage of money advertised is from the system or from the business opportunity TEAM is supporting?
- How can TEAM preach ‘meeting people where they are at’ — leadership, and Christian values — all while having the attitude that everyone who quit the business or has concerns with it is a broke, cynical loser?
- Why does TEAM say that your friends and family may think you have joined a cult? Is there any truth to it maybe?
- Why do things cost what they do? Why are seminars, opens, majors, books, and CD’s so expensive?
- They say that the speakers on the LIFE CD’s have decided to not take any royalties for being on the CD’s but is that the same as not profiting from them? When the leaders were in MonaVie they didn’t take any royalties from the creation of the juice but they still made a lot of money.
- Why does everything have to be so black and white? Why is it implied that your only choices are ‘the system’ or TV? How about neither?
- I may not ask my boss what their income is but then again I am not looking into opening a business with my boss either. If what TEAM teaches is true about your up line being more of a partner in helping you build your business, then wouldn’t it make more sense to see what their progress and results are?
- Also, if I am going to be an independent business owner and therefore legally responsible for any claims I make about the business then wouldn’t it make sense for me to want to find out as much as I could about the business that I was an owner of?
- TEAM teaches that in order to get the results that you want in life you should look for those who have “fruit on the tree” and learn how to do what they did. Well then, wouldn’t it make sense to see if ones up line had the fruit on the tree?
- One’s upline might genuinely have your best interest at heart but is it possible that they could be deceived as well?
- Is what you see really ‘fruit on the tree’? Are upline houses and cars really the result of money made from the business or are they from loans or credit cards??
- Does someone really have “fruit on the tree” if their fruit is coming from you in the form of systems profits? That would be like me taking money from someone and then claiming that since I had their money they should invest with me because obviously I had results.
- Is it moral to claim to someone that you are successful in this business when your success depends on the people you are recruiting?
- How do they have fruit on the tree with MV or LIFE when most of that money the PC has was made in Amway?
- How come there are a number of RT members are going bankrupt?
- Why do they say they don’t need you when it’s clear that they need someone? The attitude seems to be that every person who doesn’t join is stupid but if your business isn’t big then the blame is on you.
- Why are you told not to crossline in the business?
- Why is it that we shouldn’t watch the negative news? How can we “Take Back America” do that if we are sticking our heads in the sand?
- Why do all the TEAM leadership blogs say the same things?
- Why does Orrin Woodward and members of the Policy Council have all these different companies registered?
- How can TEAM go to a million people without saturating the market?
Readers, do you have additional questions to add to the list?
81 Comments
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I have heard from reliable sources that quite a few of the big leaders in Team that were retired from their jobs are no longer involved with this organization. To name a few Abrahams, Granger, Dickies, Rau, Morgan, Ratz, Freeze, Foos, Tom Cullen, Smith et al. Why are these leaders gone and what if anything happened to their downlines? This is just one of many more questions that should be asked at a given team function
I have some questions…
…If I truly own my own business here, why are you and your wife still ordering/commanding me around?
And why are your eyes so big? You look like you’re constipated,….do you need some more of the “regular” blend?[Editor's note: Let's keep the questions on a more serious note. Edited out snarky questions.]
The one question I saw asked a lot that never EVER got a straight answer was “How much do YOU make?” The answer was always, “Oh, it’s possible to make a LOT of money in this,” or something along those lines. No one ever EVER answered this question with a number.
Katie- Ask to see their tax returns with expenses, I bet even the higher levels are not claiming much if any profit.
I forgot one of the rules in the LIFE P&P’s is they are NOT ALLOWED to show their tax returns! LOL!
oh, my bad…..sorry Amthrax.
I asked TEAM/LIFER a question of my own: Has TEAM ever been associated with Amway and this was the response I received: “I think a couple of them have yes but like 15 years ago or so. So it’s as in the past as in the past can be. I’m looking forward to what we’re doing!!
”
There is TEAM/LIEf for you!
I remember when I asked how much money people upline were making and how many teams someone upline had and the response I got was that those were ‘personal questions’ and ‘none of my business’. haha!
Mesha, Its interesting how they ask you to partner with them in business yet refuse to discuss the very things that business is all about. What business partnership hides financials from each other? What business partnership doesn’t discuss the bottom line? A good arrangement would include full disclosure to both parties, wouldn’t you agree?
Another question: If TEAM is a business can I sell it?
Very good question freedomhaha- I didn’t even think about that. With how absurd the P&P is, I guessing probably not.
@ TruthSeeker
Yes, absolutely. Thats why it always seemed kinda fishy to me that no one seemed willing to when those were not even ‘personal questions’.
@Katie
The way we were taught to answer this question was thus, if i told you, you won’t believe it (answered with pomposity obviously implying one is doing so so well). Then quickly ask back a question or move on to something else.
That answer is actually true for the overwhelming majority of MLMers. Think about it if an MLMbot has been in for 6mos, 2, 6 or 13 years, and all they manage to scam others is a pittance like the famous $9 scAmway monthly bonus of course you wouldn’t believe it! Guess what most prospects would promptly decide about MLM scams. NO!
I’ve got another question- if money is supposed to go ‘up the line’ then how is it possible that I could make more money than my upline? And, when reading the comp plan it looked like either I could make more than my upline or he could make more than me , but it couldn’t be both ways. I never quite understood that.
Great Job and questions Mesha, thanks for all your efforts!
Thanks Speak:)
Seems like a lot of people on here are ready to hate and criticize and congratulate themselves on doing so. So tell me, what are you doing to save marriages, improve relationships, develop leaders, help people manage their finances better so they can actually have a shot at retiring some day even if they don’t make it big with Team LIFE, improve their parenting, etc? There are many questions and concerns about amount of time spent in doing these above things (helping people in these areas), yet all I would say your blog is doing is helping people believe achieving residual income, actually having some hope for a better life, and maybe helping others improve their lives isn’t a worthy pursuit. You can spend $50+ easy on cable & many other useless entertainments in a month, but God forbid I or anyone spend that much on something that might actually improve the way I live. I mean, all cable does is influence me to spend more money I don’t have. Yup, that’s the sound logic of critics. Hmmm, let’s rethink this, shall we?
You’ve certainly been doing a great job listening to cd’s, and I mean that seriously. The information that you are absorbing is effectively fighting off the media (most of which is horrid) that you have been subject to your whole life. My husband and I also quit watching tv about 7 years ago, not long after our FRIENDS introduced us to TEAM.
I still remember what a breath of fresh air that we thought we had experienced at our first Major. We both grew up in homes with broken marriages, abusive controlling fathers, addictions, etc. So, it was really nice to see people talking that way to one another from stage and around the room. We began making great friends with people that really loved their families, the Lord, other people, pursuing excellence.
It was exactly the thought that TEAM was the tool for all of that, which kept us involved for almost 5 years. So, first I want to directly answer your questions, then I would like to share our story, if you are willing to read all of it. I want to make you aware ahead of time, that I am going to include a lot of scripture reference, which I believe you will be okay with if you have, as you seem to, listened to very much TEAM/LIFE system. Since any PC member will openly say that they believe this to be the Supreme Authority on Truth, I think it is appropriate to use it for much of my response.
You asked:
“So tell me, what are you doing to save marriages, improve relationships, develop leaders, help people manage their finances better so they can actually have a shot at retiring some day even if they don’t make it big with Team LIFE, improve their parenting, etc? ”
1) To Save Marriages…Jesus, The Author and Finisher of our faith, clearly states in Matthew 19 that He(God), HATES divorce, that two people once joined become one flesh and to break that union is to tear asunder that one flesh that He has joined together in that covenant. He is, however, the only one that truly “save marriages,” NOT the TEAM, not you or me or anyone else. He designed the whole COVENANT institution of marriage, and the best thing that we can do to HELP one another in our marriages is to study His Word and spend time in a communing relationship with Him. As we grow IN HIM, our marriages will become stronger and we will have better discernment in encouraging others in their own.
Yes, there are many good marriage books that can help break down what the Bible says for practical application, and the TEAM system offers many of them, OR you can go to your local Christian Bookstore, or ask a minister you trust, or BEST YET seek the LORD in prayer. James 1 tells us that God gives wisdom to ALL that ask for it, “Liberally and without reproach (KJV)” I believe that the promises of God are true for everyone regardless of how long they have been a Christian.
So, short answer the BEST thing you or I can do to “save marriages” is to live by example and to be an intercessor and encourager for those around us. (Hebrews 3, 1 Thessalonians 5)
2) Improve Relationships/Parenting…Really the same answer as above. ALL of Paul’s writings in the New Testament tell us how to build strong relationships, but a GREAT place to start is 1 Corinthians. Paul is the ultimate testimony of the transformation from a non-people person (he was a religious zealot who LITERALLY killed people that disagreed with him at first) to a person who would ultimately give his own life so that others could have better lives – here yes, but his focus was more eternal.
3) Develop Leaders…Again, the greatest teaching came from the GREATEST leader, who literally changed the way we measured time even. The whole New Testament really speaks to this directly, while the Old Testament is chocked full of examples of great leaders and terrible ones for us to learn from.
4a) Help People Manage Their Finances Better…To this I have to respond with a question…Outside of books that you could find at Crown Financial Ministry or Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace system, how much REAL financial management are you actually getting from the TEAM? In fact, while I agree that life should not be purely made of focusing on finances, this seems to be a short coming of the “business” of TEAM, and while I appreciate your Cable example and you can MOST DEFINITELY find better things to spend $50 on each month, I think if you keep a running total of your direct expenses, including tools, tickets, food on the road, etc. you will find that $50 will not even cover your cd costs for a month.
4b) A Shot at Retirement…Again I’m going to ask this question – What does that mean? Retirement? Even assuming that you will one day be able to kick back in Hawaii on a whim, buy all your clothes when you get there, own your dream home, Car, etc. all on a residual income – Is that really what the Bible teaches should be our aspiration? Read Luke 12, specifically verses 13-21 and think on that for a moment.
Now, I think it would be safe to remove the assumption that through the TEAM, you would even have that option, as once you begin to calculate your monthly expenses, it won’t take long for the math break down.
AMEN!!!
Inloveserve- I missed your comment earlier, but what an outstanding post! I can echo the first part of your statement when you talked about TEAM being a “breath of fresh air”. I felt the same way the first time I came to a seminar. I would be around people reading and listening to success principals while talking about a Christ centered approach. All of those things hit me at the core and I thought I had found something unique in TEAM that I wanted to share. Well, as you stated turns out it was all a massive lie. My point is that I think a lot of people feel that “aha” moment when they find TEAM. Current TEAM member reading this understand this point: Leaving TEAM/LIEf is not turning your back on success, or your faith. Get out now to save your reputation and money.
Oh William, oh William. Wherefor art thou William?
inloveserve~
Excellent comments! Thanks!
IQ~ hilarious!
I can learn from the bible by ….. Oh gees I don’t know ….. GO TO CHURCH! TEAM/LIFE play on people’s hope, and people buy into it because they coat everything with sugar.
Team LIFE Sugar coating……….you bet! They create a fake dellusional world to live in by Love bombing etc. a fake, I love you man, happy happy environment, meanwhile stabbing people in their backs, behind the scenes!
Welcome Frustrated! Can I ask why you picked the name Frustrated?
Inloveserve- I am sorry I missed your beautiful, truthfilled post! Welcome!
To answer why I picked the name Frustrated…My best friend in the world has been brainwashed by the LIFE group, and she won’t listen to reason! She battles a nerve disease and has a young daughter so being caught up in this huge waste is the last thing she needs. It hurts to watch her fall deeper and deeper into their lies. I keep trying to open her eyes but nothing has worked
Frustrated- I can relate to that. I once was where she is at and the way people tried to reason with me didn’t work as I was indoctrinated by the Cult think.
I would recommend you read Combatting Cult Mind Control, by Steve Hassan. It will tell you how you can help your friend. You have to learn how to go around what they have taught her. She feels loved and special by the fake love bombing and promise of a better life and e “purpose” she believes she is working for. Read it before you say anything to her. They have messed with her mind to get her to not listen to anyone outside the group and they made anyone outside the group the ignorant “enemy” in her mind. You no longer have any credibility to her now that she is in the group.
I am sorry you are going through this. Please know your friend will really need you when she can see clearly again. It is devastating coming out of a destructive group that you didn’t know messed with your mind. She will need your love and support, not I told you so. You can do an intervention, but read the book first.
Let us know what happens.Good luck.
* All my comments are my opinions from my years of experience with Team and Orrin Woodward and his cronies.
Thanks webelieved, I have come to realize that the only way I can reach her is through love I will look at that book. My goal now is to give her positive support and reassurance that she can do anything all by herself. Also that we are there for her and we always have been. My hope is that if I can give her the “happy, happy, I love you man” reactions and that she will realize she doesnt need them. It’s hard to do without her thinking that I am “ok” with the “business”.
To webelieved,
I would be interested in talking more with you about a project I’m starting. I will give you the full details via email.
My email is:
lydia420hi@hotmail.com
I would really enjoy hearing from you!
Of course she wants to recruit you as she most likely believes you need the “business”. You know it has all the answers.
Unfortunately she is believing part lies, or all lies.
Love to see a community working together to help people!
Frustrated- you can send an email to Amthrax and he will get it to me. thanks.
What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?
What?
It would be a funny question to ask, especially if one used the Bridgekeeper’s voice.
Funny Gordon, but what do you mean? An African or European swallow? Sorry, can’t do the voice.
Don’t think I could pull it off either, though it would be funny.
@Gordon
Don’t think I’ve seen you here before… welcome!:)
I watched one of Orin’s speeches on you tube and he states you have to fail, and maybe you’ll fail a thousand times before your successful, how is that motivating? If I want to be successful I make sure I know how to succeed. Plus for the Christians out there don’t forget:
Phil 4:13
We can do all things through Christ which strengthens us!
Gordon- It is great to have to you on here!
It’s quite clear that none of you own a business. Go ahead and do some research on owning a business and then preach about how you can make money in it.
Or maybe you enjoy sitting in your office/cube at your job and truly enjoy it.
Brainwashed by TEAM. Hmmm…but isn’t this blog site doing the exact same thing. Think about it for a second, if the blogger will allow you to, and look at what AMTHRAX is doing. They are preaching how one is not better and they go on and on and on. And yet it’s just the same handful of responders that are on here. WeBelieved seems to be the one badly burned (so sorry to hear that), and he/she continues to wallow in their self pity. It’s really pathetic to see that someone spends that much time on….nothing.
And I read the touching story of inloveserve. That was very touching that…..oh wait there wasn’t a story. Hmmm. That’s too bad. I really wanted to be touched by the story. As for your quotes from the scripture to rebut Williams statements, yes one can believe in God and trust in Him and in Jesus Christ. They are not trying to replace the Almighty. They offer counsel as do the people in your team. So you mean to say that if a marriage is having problems, the couple should not seek a marriage counselor of some sort? Of if their kids are behaving badly that they shouldn’t seek a psychologist?
The people that create negativity have only that in their lives. ~ Gaven Sashidharan
Go do something positive instead of spreading more negativity in this world. You are taking up our space and breathing my air.
Here’s a question you should add AMTHRAX, and it’s a question for the prospect. Are you a better person/friend/husband/father/wife/mother, etc?
As for these questions above, ask me. I’ll give you an honest answer. But don’t sit there and complain after I give you an answer.
Here’s my name and email address (something that none of your followers seem to put on here). Email me with your information and tell me what you were like before and after team and how you truly are a better person now.
Gaven Sashidharan
gsashidharan07@yahoo.com
And unlike inloveserve, I will tell you more instead of hiding behind scripture. And more importantly I want WeBelieved to email me.
Have a blessed day everyone
Are you part of TEAM/LIFE? Have you read the P&P?
Frustrated permalink
May 7, 2012 11:54 am
Are you part of TEAM/LIFE? Have you read the P&P?
————————————————————————–
Yes and yes. Do you work for a company and/or own a large corporation?
It’s funny how that’s the only thing you would point out. And please don’t pollute your friend with the same propaganda delivered here at this blog site. I gave my email out there. I’m free for a discussion. Just not on this site.
And for those that will clearly point out after a week or so of me not responding “Where is Gaven”, I do have things to do. Some day I will come by on this site and read back on your comments.
Gaven-
We are brainwashed by Amthrax? I think NOT! Amthrax doesn’t control information like Orrin. In example he allows your comments. He doesn’t have copy cat sites out there to hide disenting opinions, like Orrin and his cronies. Amthrax doesn’t tell you how to feel or what to believe, in fact he promotes discussions. He doesn’t tell your family members how they need to act etc. like Orrin’s P & P’s. There is not a group pressure environment and love bombing used here. The environment isn’t fake. There is no deception used. All opinions are welcomed, unlike the Team/LIFE leaders sites! Amthrax doesn’t have anyone listening to propaganda cds all day long and isn’t being paid in anyway to moderate the site, unlike the so called leaders you are following. I can tell you know nothing of cults or mind control, you may want to read up on it, so you don’t sound so ignorant.
According to you Gaven, I am wallowing in self pity? No, Just a survivor telling the truth, saving others from the lies that Orrin and others are telling in my opinion. A whistle blower like Erin Brokovich and other good people who stand up against lies and evil! I volunteer my time, telling my experience with Team PC and others, over an over if I have to. Saving others from the financial pilage, and spiritual rape of the soul that I and others here have endured.
We do believe people who are hurting should seek help from TRAINED PROFFESIONALS, not con men, engineers, mechanics, physical therapists etc. calling themselves proffesional life coaches etc. How dare them try to take some type of authoritarian, counseling role in other people’s lives when they have no right or training to do so!
“The people that create negativity have only that in their lives.” ~ Gaven Sashidharan
Actually we didn’t create the negativity, we had it forced upon us. So talk to your masters who created the negativity. The ones who must have only negativity in their lives according to your quote?
“Go do something positive instead of spreading more negativity in this world. You are taking up our space and breathing my air.”- Gaven
Wow who said you owned the air and this is your space? Pretty obnoxious, Gaven!
You have demonstrated with your words how rude, arrogant and obnoxious you are, that I would be a fool to contact you privately! I’m not impressed by any title or anything else you may throw out there. You have not earned any influence in my life. However, if you would like to have a real discussion, have it here in public. If you can’t have it in public, than I am not interested!
By the way, I find it interesting you are on this site, breaking your P & P’s and yet you say you work for an attorneys office! Very interesting!
Webelieved
Gaven- What are you hiding that you won’t have conversation on this site?
Frustrated- Did you see, I asked you to contact me through Amthrax?
WeBelieved, I’m pretty sure this post won’t make it as I have posted 2 other things on AMTHRAX today, neither of which have been cleared by AMTHRAX. So talk about controlling….
And as far as breaking my company’s P&P, I said I don’t want to have them involved. I’m not breaking anything. It’s so pathetic to see people like you on here. I spent some time with one of your cronies, Scott Johnson, today. He did go on to call you guys idiots by the way. It was pretty funny. He said that he didn’t really agree with everyone on AMTHRAX. Then he went on to call me an idiot and at the same time calling all of you idiots. lol. Your own follower! Funny stuff.
Anyway WeStillCan’tPostOurRealName, if I was hiding, why am I using my name and you aren’t? I’ve wasted my time here.
Webelieved & Gaven~
Great points! I was wondering the same. If gaven works for a “law firm” and makes light of the LIEf P&P as if it is (just common practice, P&P language protecting the companies) as if no one else is smart enough to know that one. “It’s funny how that’s the only thing (he) would point out.”
But most interesting is how he failed to address the real issues with the P&P, that have been brought up on this blog such as; ‘controlling’ the Independent LIEf business owner (haha) and your immediate families opinions, thoughts, and feelings, what websites you can or cannot go to and comment on; such as Amthrax etc..
I find that very telling of his character that he doesn’t think anything of violating the LIEf P&P when he works for a “law firm”? Could you explain that, gaven?
BTW Gaven, along with the violation of the P&P, I was curious about your motive for showing up on this site, basically soliciting people to contact you for a private conversation? Why would you want to contact anyone privately outside of this site? Are you here representing the “law firm” you work for, perhaps, trying to solicit some clients or are you paid for by orrin/team/life/signature management team or any entity related and have a specific task for them that caused you to come here or are you on here because you felt the need to share your wealth of ‘opinions’ from a liefer perspective and telling people how they should respond? I am looking for your honest answers Gaven.
Gaven, How long have you been in Team or LIEf or both? How long have you know orrin woodard and or the other PC? Have they hired you or your firm for a specific task to do with Amthrax? If so what came first, the hiring or you becoming a member?
Gaven says: ” WeBelieved seems to be the one badly burned (so sorry to hear that), and he/she continues to wallow in their self pity.”
Gaven there is something you should know about the commenter’s on here, most if not all have been “badly burnt” to some degree and there isn’t one that is as stupid as your condescending comments imply; of course we couldn’t be as smart as you. There is also something else you should know that there won’t be anyone who falls for your superficial concern “(so sorry to hear that)” bs. Please if you don’t mean it don’t say it. Otherwise I will just chalk it up to the school of orrin you are attending and to add to this, to make my point, in another comment you stated;
“I don’t know how you reached here, nor do I really care, but look at yourself in the mirror, look at your wife and kids eyes (if you have them) and ask yourself if you have actually made a difference in this world.”
Gaven, it wasn’t hard to figure out you don’t give a sh*t but thanks for admitting it. But don’t expect anyone to “care” about you either, that is elementary “people skills” and perhaps you should have read “How to win friends and influence people,” (before you got here) that is if you were seriously trying to solicit people to contact you. I hate to rain on your parade but pretty sure that blew it for ya, gavey…just saying.
And the last question about looking in your wife and children’s eyes is ridiculous, and you should answer it for yourself Gaven. Remember you don’t “care” so never mind about our children and families. You must not understand the depth or the difference parents make in their children’s lives (with and then without) the Team. Read the rest of the blog before you spout off a question like that. If you talked to our children it could crush you (that is if you had a heart), at what a negative “difference” orrin and Co’s cronies made in their lives…but then you really don’t give a sh*t anyway, do ya gaven?
Speak and WeBelieved- Awesome post- thanks so much. For those not in TEAM/LIEF lets celebrate another day of freedom.
Freedom~
Celebrate freedom…Yes!
Sorry, we had a melt down at church this last week I have been SUPER busy plus with my book getting started but I will figure out how this next week because I really would like some more info
Frustrated- No problem, just thought you may have missed my post.
Does anyone else find it interesting that you cannot comment on the YouTube videos for TEAM/LIFE?
Frustrated- I just checked and you are able to comment on the “Something Right” video. My guess is that it wouldn’t last long up there though.
How come when I google news for team/life I only find self published articles?
Because they are only self promoted. In the real world, outside the group, they are unknown. In fact Forbes called Team a pyramid on top of a pyramid. Of course Orrin never told us about that article. LOL!
I know some of you have been badly hurt by them but I personally can’t figure out why people get involved
You think it is a group of people with integrity, Christians, who want to help others. That is the pitch. You also are led to believe you can get your time back, earn an income that will help your family and that you can use to help others. IF you are an optimist and looking for something to do that is good, you will really be sucked in. They lied to us so much. Now it is more straight forward. When we got in it was a bait and switch. I had no idea they were making most of their income from the tools. Now they cannot lie as much so it will sink or swim, because people know they are making the money off sale of books, cds, etc. Also you are love bombed and under group pressure when you get around the group, so you feel like you met some great friends with the same ideals as you. YOu have no idea they are faking it, and that they are taught to do it. You have no idea 95% of the room has been sitting there year after year hoping, but not making any money. The group pressure is strong. Than they give you cds picked for your personality, and you are manipulated over and over. Once you are listening to their propaganda and indoctrinated, it is hard to see the truth.
Then your sense of self worth is attacked over and over by the messages, if your team isn’t growing you aren’t a good enough leader, or you haven’t read enough, worked enough. etc. Subtle messages. You need to check in with your upline, they are all knowing and successful and your friends outside the group are not. They lose credibility with you as you have these so called rich, great guys who are willing to help you. Why would you take advice from a broke guy who has a job? YOu find the guy with success that you want and listen to them. What they don’t tell you is, the guy who has success probably misled a lot of people to get it. That he is working all of the time and that only 7 families have got that income over a 20 year period! That they will control who you are, what you say, what you do, how much time you spend with your family. That you will be at their beck and call.
The higher up you go the more you will be forced to conform who you are to their ideals to keep what you worked for. You will need to become an mini Orrin or Chris, you will start talking like cds, looking like Orrin etc. YOu do what they say, or else. Just like a cult.
Of course when you get in you have NO IDEA the sacrifice of your life, personality, time, uniqueness you will have to make to stay a part of the group.
Basically you are promised one thing, and delivered another. By the time you see what you got, you cannot recognize it because you are so confused by the indoctrination and propaganda. So you are trapped. IF anyone tells you anything against the group you have been indoctrinated/brainwashed you cannot even hear it. So sad.
Thanks Webelieved…you explained what happens to you through the process.
Frustrated~ A very simple answer to your question is: No one really gets ‘started’ they get “recruited” usually by someone (family, friend etc.) they TRUST based on making a lot of money and what they either know about your specific desires or find out about them. But These basic human desires they promise and promote as if they are the answer for you to get them all.
In other words people don’t seek the scam out, the scammers seek you out and then it becomes a very systematic process unbenounced to you, which then follows what webelieved explained with deception and how great everyone and everything is. Just like webelieved said they lead to believe it is the answer to all your problems that you have been looking for.The recruiters have been trained to feed on your desires and know how to manipultate your personality.
A step by step process happens you believe is all spontaneous and natural….but simply is manipulation!
Your upline will do favors for you so you feel like you owe them. Pick you up, do meetings for you, etc. You feel like you made new friends and eventually they become like your family. You work together, and slowly the business takes over almost everyday of your life. You will be invited to meeting after meeting, promotions with your successful upline, coffee- confession sessions, etc. Your upline will slowly invade every personal area of your life as your mentor/counselor. You are led slowly through the process and never are told up front how much time away from your family,money etc it will really take away from your life. They even teach followers not to tell prospects up front all that is entailed, only just get them to the next step, the next meeting. So you commit to the next step, not knowing there is another one, coming. Once you are commited and going power player/showing 15 plans, listening to cds everyday, it is hard to change your mind. You have bought into it. You will be so busy you hardly have time to think, and you hardly have time for your old life or your old friends. You will be on a mission to go out and help the next guy. You are living in a fake, manipulated environment ( unknown to you), and you will go out and sell it to the next guy. You believe you are making a difference, and you are so busy you cannot even see the amount of people you have hurt, the majority quit etc. They got you to believe they are just lazy quitters who don’t have a dream, etc. ( You can see that from the pro team commenters on the site). You are living in a delusional world, that isn’t what it appears. Except they will never let you see the real them. You will only see what is on stage, not the fits Orrin throws or the pig he was on the Qrush blog, or how he manipulated the pay behind the scenes and won’t give people their contracts, or the many companies he kept in Utah, perhaps to not pay taxes, or the leaders who filed bankruptcy, or were forclosing on their property. etc. You will only see the nicey, nicey side of them all. It is all based on deception and hiding the full truth.
*all my comments are my opinions based on years of experience in Team.
The leaders are trained in personalities and sales and could sell ice to an eskimo. They know how to challenge a strong personality, that a laid back person won’t say no if you tell them you are picking them up. They promise a detailed person graphs and charts, and a fun person a party. They are amazing at manipulating people to get them to do what they want to hit their goals. Also people will report in on what you are doing, how you are thinking to the upline. Nothing is private on team or confidential. Your guru has already heard about you and knows just what to say to make you feel good. They will ask you questions to know your desires and dreams and use that to entice you. It is really sick. Then get you on they system, cds, books etc. so you will be brainwashed by their propaganda.
Your downline and your upline will report in on you, everything you do to run your business. If your upline doesn’t approve of what you are doing he will make it a generic topic for a meeting. Unkown to you , he is doing it to send a message to you and everyone else that you are doing something wrong, they call it not following the system. This is only one way they control your behavior. Another way is using rewards and punishments, but that comes after you have been in awhile and are a leader. You want to hang out with your ‘friends’ you have to show so many plans or buy so much stuff. That is how they get you performing. Once you do that you don’t want to miss the next event so you go to work, over and over. You don’t even know, now you are trapped working for the groups goals, not really your own, like you think.
They run promotions to get with your upline, Orrin or whoever. So you go to work to get there. Once you get there it is just more meetings, etc. Constant work, you never take any time off, to rest, vacation etc. You believe you will do that in a few years when you make it, yet that never happens. The higher up you go the more work you will be expected to do, the more money you will spend running your business. You will NEVER really get your time back like they promise, you do not have residual income either. Now it says it right in their p and p’s. By now you don’t believe the outside world has any credibility due to the propaganda of the group, so you are trapped to continue trying, believing it is not working because something is wrong with you.
You will see contradictary things, but will make excuses for them. You will be told one thing and see another and yet you can hardly put it into words, because your language has been reduced to cult language. It has been proven if a group can dumb down your use of language to cliches they can dumb down your ability to think, and that is what I believe happened in Team. When I came out I couldn’t even hardly understand much less explain what happened to me. I didn’t have the words. Now I do.
That is why I recommend the Combatting Cult Mind Control book to anyone trying to help a loved one out or anyone previously involved in a destructive group, it gives you the words and understanding to process it and move beyond it.
Gaven: Your comments are going into moderation because you keep using different names (G.S., Gaven Sashidharan, and Gaven YouShouldKnowMeByNow) when leaving your comments. Stick with one consistent name, and your comments won’t go into moderation in the future.
Thanks Amthrax!
…..Hmm…another standard MO approach! How maannnyyy times do these shysters have to do this before they learn…Yawn?! There went your crediblity Gaven?….Now try and tell us someone else is sharing your computer…thats been tried and tested too.. but hasn’t been effective or believed! So we can’t even say “nice try” gavey…then you have the audacity to say Amthrax is “controlling.”…pfft!
Just another example…Follower…. of those great guru…”leeeaders” who are just ooozing with “integrity!
You know what is “pathetic” gaven….is your lack of integrity, arrogance, ignorance, and condescending attitude. BTW~ Who is Scott Johnson?
Speak – I was going to ask the same question, never heard of Scott Johnson. Gaven using one name is not too much to ask and I don’t think Amthrax cares to take up every single second of his day to moderate this site. So have a bit of patience, isn’t that what the team/lief teaches?
@Scott Johnson is also known as Tex, who is an opponent of Amway Motivational Organizations (i.e. WWDB, N21, etc.). He’s been banned from this site because he constantly belittles people and tries to get them to call his conference line (which few people want to do).
Thx again Amthrax…haha…now that is funny still don’t “know” or care to know Scott Johnson/ Tex… other than have heard of Tex. One other thing..where could I find the comment(s) listed under the 3rd alias “YouShouldKnowMeByNow?” I don’t recall seeing that moniker.
Scott Johnson is Tex? Oh that expains a lot! LOL! Gaven try again, or should I say GS or youshouldknowmebynow…..it would fit better if it said….. youshouldknowmebymyrudeness, LOL!
Speak that is under LIEF Policy and Procedures I believe.
@G.S. Thanks Buh-dy
@Scott Johnson I walk with god, is it hot where you live?
It is so sad to see people trying to take advantage of good honest people
He used it in this comment. You didn’t see it because it had been moderated for a couple of days (which I approved this afternoon).