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Debate on Systems Tools over on Amway Talk

July 22, 2008
Amway Talk Forum

Amway Talk Forum

There’s a debate going on Amway Talk about the Business Support Materials (BSM or Tools) in the Amquix business. Most everyone participating in this thread is a current supporter of the business (and most of whom are active IBOs). This is why I find it fascinating to see such a debate occurring between active IBOs. Before, the most you’d hear about the tool issue would be on various critics sites like or Merchants of Deception. Back when I was a business, the topic of tools and Diamond profits from BSM sales was simply never brought up (or if it was, it was quickly brushed away and hushed up). Now, we’re seeing current IBOs talk about the issue. Who would have thought?

Here’s a quote from a poster named Wearyeyed that I would like to comment further on:

Ros said it best, and I can’t for the life of me figure out why system tools critics refuse to allow for someone finding value in the system, and doesn’t need to know the details of the profits that system generates to do so.

Even as a critic, I concede that people may find value in the tools. Some of the Nuts and Bolts tapes on meeting new people, for instance, impart tips and techniques that can be applied in day-to-day life. Is this knowledge exclusive to the business? No. Could I have learned it somewhere else? Yes.

In my experience, I often finished listening to a tape only to say “What. Was. That?” Sadly, an IBO on Standing Order Tape (SOT) has no choice in the matter regarding next week’s tape or CD. It’s an all of nothing proposition. In my day, you could only return unopened tapes and CDs. If I listened to a useless tape, it’s $6 down the drain.

I’ve written before how Systems should digitize their audio tools and make them available as MP3s. If they insist on continuing to sell these tools at high prices, however they could at least make a short 30-second clip available for free on their websites. Or, they could add in a description that explains the audio content is providing and to whom the tape might most relate to.

Of course, giving IBOs a choice in the matter would be an incredible leap of faith on the part of the System leaders; quite frankly, I do not believe they would put as much faith in their IBOs as they have made their IBOs put into them.

To those people who are happy building their Amway/Quixtar businesses and who enjoy using the Tools, attending meetings, and going to Major Functions, good for you! Like a tape I found to be useless, I’m not talking to you, so feel free to ignore me.

On the other hand, to those people who continue to have that nagging doubt in the back of their minds regarding this business, I encourage you to keep reading and investigating for yourself. There are many reasons why the System and/or the business may not be right for you. Better for you to realize it now rather than later.

5 Comments leave one →
  1. July 22, 2008 1:37 pm

    Now, this is the cutting edge posting that I might expect from Quixtar Blog. Thumbs up Amthrax. Keep up the good work. When the tool scam is a major issue in the business, you’d think that it would at least take certain stage rather than being only an aside. Who is at the cutting edge now? Are the old veterans going to sit on the bench and let the young players make all the plays?

  2. July 22, 2008 6:27 pm

    Amthrax, a number of systems (including the one I work with) have had digital downloads available for some years.

    With regards to “useless” tapes, what often seems forgotten is that the tapes you get aren’t just for you. They are tools to be used to expand your business. If all that’s listening to them is you, they’re working as tools for your upline, not you!

    As such I had an enlightening lesson once when a tape came out on our system and I thought it was one of the worst pieces of junk I’d ever heard. I’d sponsored a bunch of people recently and was extremely concerned about how those who’d gone on the tape program would react to this first tape they received, which I though was rubbish.

    Right on queue, one of them called up to talk about the tape. What did he want? He wanted to order 5 copies because he thought it was great and wanted to lend it out to friends.

    We’re all different types of personalities, and as network builders we need to become aware of this and realise that what we think is gold may be another mans rubbish and vice versa. I learned what type of person will like what type of tape and used it appropriately.

    If all I ever did was order what I like, then I’d never be able to expand my thinking to what others like and able to lend them appropriate materials.

    There’s a lot more sophistication to it than you might think!

  3. July 23, 2008 12:41 pm

    In response to wearyeye’s original thought: It is because you don’t understand the tool scam, that’s why. It’s not JUST about whether YOU think there is value, it’s whether there’s a scam going on.

  4. Joecool permalink
    July 23, 2008 6:26 pm

    The tapes may have some value, but someupline push overconsumption of the tapes and most ofthem teach you nothing as evidenced by the little growth in the LOSs.

  5. July 23, 2008 9:27 pm

    That’s why getting rid of the tool scam is the key. If hyper-consumption of tools results in no profit results (either in tool or Amway profit), then the economic incentive will be in place to either cut down on the tools and sponsor and/or retail more, and/or change the tool content. As it is now, there is an economic incentive to hyper-consume regardless of Amway profit, as plenty is being made via the tool scam profit.

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