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Pin Levels

July 22, 2008
What pin level are you currently at?

What pin level are you currently at?

As I have previously noted, I was not successful at building an Amquix busines. It’s been a long time, but I seem to recall my highest level in the business was either 300PV or 600PV, no doubt a result of buying a set of cookware or a couple of water filters during a stretch month. For my efforts, I received a 300PV or 600PV pin for my efforts. Yet, I never wore it. Why? I felt that I didn’t deserve to, because I was not re-qualifying at that level. You see, after my PV splurge, I quickly went back to being a 100PV (or less) a month IBO. When my upline gave me the pin, I even recall telling them, “Why am I getting this? I’m not at that level right now.”

I know now that others in the business have no problems wearing a pin they aren’t qualified to wear anymore. To current IBOs, do you identify yourself with the highest pin level you’ve ever reached or your current pin level? What about your downline IBOs, your crossline friends, and your upline? Are they representing themselves at their high pin level or their current one?

Enron, an example of gross corporate malfeasance

Enron, an example of gross corporate malfeasance

A great source to see who’s really where they say they are is Amway’s own Achieve Magazine. Every few issues, Achieve displays the names of those Diamonds that have qualified as Rubies, Emeralds, Diamonds, Double Diamonds, etc. If your upline is not on the that list, I would suggest that you seriously need to start asking some questions. Not questions like, “What can I do better to help my upline reach their goal,” but “Why are my uplines saying they are Platinums or Emeralds when they aren’t listed in Amway’s own magazine?” Keep checking your Achieve magazine every few months to give them the benefit of the doubt, but please don’t ignore this.

To prospects looking at the business. Ask your future upline what pin level they are currently at and the pin level of their upline. Ask if they have been re-qualifying month after month. If you get an evasive answer, think about it before you sign on the dotted line. From the stage, Diamonds say that this is an ethical and honest business. How ethical and honest is a business where its sales force is constantly misrepresenting facts? If a typical IBOship, both large and small, were treated as a public company, the board of directors would be quite likely jailed for giving false guidance and numbers!

18 Comments leave one →
  1. Joecool permalink
    July 22, 2008 10:20 am

    Why the pin level is significant is because many uplines and IBOs promote ongoing “residual” income that you can will to future generations. Now if you cannot maintain your pin level, you know that there is no residual income. You cannot “walk away” and collect that diamond income for life. In fact, I believe that maintaining diamond qualification is a full time job.

  2. July 22, 2008 1:04 pm

    Amthrax, without wanting to engage in any debate, what’s listed in Achieve is *new* qualifiers at various levels. To the best of my knowledge requalifiers at whatever level are not listed, though one can get an idea through achieving founders and higher levels.

    Annually publishing all achievers at the major levels would I think be a good thing, though some allowance would need to be made for the fact that qualification requirements have changed over the years.

  3. July 22, 2008 2:06 pm

    I know Achieve magazine lists first-time qualifiers (with their photos and bios). I’m not talking about them, but those IBOs that Achieve lists periodically who have qualified in the current year for some achievement (like Q-12, Platinum Elite, etc.) There are many Diamonds in INA and other groups who are not listed there.

    Look at the the May 2008 Achieve Magazine (from your Amway Wiki website, by the way). Starting on page 30 is a list of all Platinum Elites, IBOs who received an additional bonus for hitting Ruby volume (12,500 PV) between the months of September 07 and January 08. I presume this is volume outside of their qualifying Direct legs.

    On pages 31 and 32 are Executive Diamond, James and Margaret Floor, and Diamond, Dave and Lisa Vanni. Jim Floor is one of the founders of INA and Vanni has been a Diamond in INA for many years. He was previously married to Micki Vanni, but they divorced some time in the early 2000s.

    Why aren’t there more INA Diamonds who qualified for this bonus? Have they fallen out of qualification? Did they not have enough outside volume to qualify? These are questions which must be asked in order to bring legimitacy to the things they say on stage.

  4. July 22, 2008 2:37 pm

    Furthermore, the same issue of Achieve lists Platinum Plus recipients. IBOs only need to produce 10,000-12,499 Ruby PV in a month. There are a few more INA names in there (Lovett, Jones, McCracken), but it’s still a far cry from all of the Diamonds the organization used to have.

    Achieve lists additional Platinum Plus and Platinum Elite recipients in the June and July Achieve Magazine. No familiar names were listed there either.

  5. July 22, 2008 2:44 pm

    ibofightback – BTW, I agree with your comment that Amway should publish a complete list of annual high-pin achievers. Why do you think they do not do that?

  6. July 22, 2008 3:30 pm

    Ok, it’s more than possible to be a qualified diamond and not qualify for those bonuses as they’re based on personal group volume, ie outside of any platinum legs.

    In fact, as an older pin you’re more likely to be listed there if you’ve fallen out of qualification, since volume in platinum legs that no longer qualify reverts to your personal group volume. Newer diamonds may qualify for them because they’re building width and new legs, but older diamonds might be focussed on maintaining their existing legs rather than personal group volume.

    Why don’t they publish requalifiers? Politics. Some folk wouldn’t want it published, for obvious reasons. For others it could be extremely misleading. You might have qualified Diamond on a burst, then focussed on consoliditing as a Founders Emerald and building internationally. You may even be making *more* money than when you were a qualified Diamond. So it’s possible that it could unfairly malign some folk.

    IMO though, in the world of the internet the benefits of transparency will nearly always outweigh the negatives.

  7. July 22, 2008 3:49 pm

    By your example, wouldn’t an older pin who’s fallen out of qualification still be listed as qualifying as an Emerald Plus/Elite, Sapphire Plus/Elite, or Platinum Plus/Elite?

    Wold it be a little disingenuous if they only show people who qualify at their highest pin level yet don’t publish them when they qualify for these bonuses but at a lower pin level?

    You said it yourself that some folk wouldn’t want it published “for obvious reasons.” What reasons are those?

  8. July 22, 2008 4:22 pm

    All this talk about transparency is just a smoke screen that the kingpins are putting up to continue their tool scam. Where is the transparency?

    Orrin Woodward revealed information recently that wasn’t available previously although you still must take this tool kingpin’s word for it but I don’t think he has any reason to lie now. These folks have basically lied about tool profits until they were outed as frauds by the dateline tool scam expose. He didn’t come clean while he was a Quixtar kingpin.

    I like the figures Michman is putting up about what the total tool and function costs when all the other various business costs are added in (like babysitters, gasoline, car wear and repair, accommodations, meals, and tool purchases made to assist downline get their business up and going).

    A distributor would have to have a very very successful retail business to offset these high expenses, something very few IBOs can say they have. Retail selling is the most dismal non-success story that distributors are not talking about.

    It is encouraging probably to Tex to see that the IBOs over on IBOFBs new Amway forum have made the most popular string of comments so far about tools. What they really are talking about is the TOOL SCAM! Many of the problems I first raised are continuing to be raised by at least a couple IBOs. IBOs are starting to see through their upline deceptions about these many times worthless propaganda.

    Also, the kingpin monopoly issue shows not sign of ending. These tools are a monopoly business plain and simple and I haven’t heard a good argument against their being a monopoly yet by anyone. Even IBOs are seeing this monopoly for what it is. The kingpin supporters make the most insane arguments about dragging their cinder block tool expenses behind them in their climb to success. Their support of the kingpin’s tool scam makes little sense to people how use their brain to think rather than following the upline talking points many blindly believe like sheep.

  9. July 23, 2008 5:56 am

    There is no such thing as “emerald plus/elite” etc. The Platinum Plus/Elite listings are purely to do with personal group volume and have nothing to do with platinum legs. They are grouped by the highest level ever achieved, not by current level. This can be confirmed since there are many for example Crowns listed as achieving Platinum Plus and Elite levels, however they are not members of North American Founders Council, which is all qualifying Triple Diamonds and above.

    If someone is say a Diamond and 3 of the legs drop out of qualification, then they’re personal group volume will increase. They’ll still be considered a Diamond, since it’s a one off recognition much like “olympic gold medallist” but that moniker says nothing about their current level of achievement. The Platinum elite/plus recognitions do however tell you they still have significant North American groups and are making decent money. In fact a Platinum elite/plus, not even qualifying as an Emerald, could be making more than a qualified Diamond.

    The “obvious” reasons for some folk not wanting all qualifiers published each year is that it will hurt their egos, and perhaps their wallets, since they may not get invited as much on the speaking circuit if folk knew they weren’t requalifying at any decent level.

  10. July 23, 2008 8:53 am

    I simply wrote Emerald Plus/Elite as a way of identifying those people in the Achieve magazine listed as being a Platinum Plus/Elite and Emerald/Diamond/Platinum/etc.

    If what you say is true — that the terms Diamond, Crown, and Emerald are one-off monikers — it only serves to reinforce my argument that IBOs should know, as a matter of disclosure and transparency, what the current pin-level their upline leaders are at.

  11. July 23, 2008 12:48 pm

    I wear all the pins, it makes me look like a war hero.

    But seriously, the reason you don’t see them wearing their current pin is because they make more money via the tool scam than they would if they were still qualified at the highest achieved pin level. So why take the pin off?

    I also think Amway should publish the pin level of the current qualification, with a 1-2 year “grace period” to allow them to requalify. PLUS get rid of the tool scam….naturally.

  12. July 23, 2008 1:10 pm

    Will you look at that, there are some things we can all agree upon!

    tex, ibofightback, and I all feel that Amway should publish a complete list of major pin level achievers. I’m even fine with having a grace period of a year too (two might be too long, though).

  13. July 23, 2008 1:25 pm

    I wonder if ibofb’s upline agrees with this?

    I could go with one or two years. After all, it probably took more than a year to build it, it is reasonable it will take more than a year to rebuild it. Plus, with this policy in place, the upline would actually be more concerned about their Amway business than their tool scam business. What a refreshing thought!

  14. July 23, 2008 4:18 pm

    I’ve never seen a 300 or 600 PV pin. Was this something your LOS/LOA did?

  15. July 23, 2008 6:32 pm

    If I still had it, I would take a photo of it for this web site, but I assure you it was some pin that had a number on it.

  16. July 23, 2008 9:28 pm

    It must have been something your LOA/LOS did, right?

  17. July 23, 2008 10:02 pm

    Apparently so.


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