Skip to content

Orrin Woodward is Jim Floor Version 2.0

August 4, 2008

Orrin Woodward must be a popular guy on the Internet; so far today, I’ve received 15 referral clicks to my article on the Supreme TEAM Leader. Over on his blog, Orrin receives much comment-love from his TEAM followers. The steady stream of comments, however, is very one-sided, however; there’s little in the way of dissenting opinions (though you can find the occasional critical comment if you look hard enough).

Back when I was in the business, INA leaders discouraged IBOs from going to websites critical of Amway/Quixtar, calling them “the bathroom stalls of the Internet.” They would say things like, “Some people have no better thing to do with their lives than to sit in front of the computer and type out lies about the business.” What we’ve learned over the years, however, is that many of these so-called lies are actually truths about the business.

Very few INA leaders then and today have blogs of their own, but if they did, I would expect to see the same type of blind loyalty that I see with Woodward today. Jim Floor certainly had a way with words, and IBOs would soak up everything he said and ask for more, more, more. Do Floor’s current followers know that back in 1997-1999 there were thousands more people attending his Major Functions than do today? What happened to them and why would they leave INA and the Amway opportunity? Knowing now that he sat atop the INA tools pyramid and was on the other side of the Genie deal, I see him primarily in the business of dealing hope.

From posts that I have read in the now-defunct original forum on The Truth About Amway, INA was about to join TEAM last year before the whole Woodward-termination scandal broke out. I recall many speeches that Floor and his Diamonds said about Amway/Quixtar being the best business opportunity there is. Times do change, and perhaps there are other opportunities better than Amquix today (I certainly believe that 100%). If they had joined TEAM only to quit a few months later to join MonaVie, there is no doubt in my mind that they would proclaim from stage that MonaVie is the best business opportunity out there.

What’s virtually identical is the tools and training system. The selling of hope is for all intents and purposes the same across these multi-level marketing organizations. A few words changed here and there, and a tape extolling the virtues of the Amway business opportunity turns into a CD praising MonaVie for providing the wonderful (Black) Diamond lifestyle.

There’s nothing wrong with having hope in one’s life. I would caution, however, the type of hope being taught and sold by organizations like TEAM and INA. It’s okay to have dreams and goals; ask yourself the question, “Whose dreams and goals am I fulfilling?” Yours or those of your upline leaders?

Amway was stupid to place the onus on teaching and training onto the System leaders instead of doing it themselves. What happened was IBOs became loyal not to the company but to their upline leaders. The corporation is trying to change all of this with marketing blitzes, more corporate-sponsored functions, and increased communication with IBOs, but I wonder if the damage has already been done. When push comes to shove, who are you going to believe? Your “kind and caring upline” who has your best interests at heart or the big, bad Alticor corporation who doesn’t really know what it’s like to build a business today?

16 Comments leave one →
  1. August 4, 2008 9:13 pm


  2. survivor642 permalink
    August 5, 2008 7:22 am

    You’re right about the fact that INA was much bigger in the past. I think at one time there was maybe 30 diamonds before McCracken, Singleton, Leif Johnson, and others split to form another AMO that I can’t remember the name of (Globalnet ?). After the split, there were no more than 15 diamonds. Some have completely disappeared off the radar like Joe Dendy. I remember being on a business trip in the 90’s and going to an Open Meeting with Beverly Sallee in LA area showing the plan where there must have been well over a thousand to see the plan. I was in the biz from 1983-2004 and saw the numbers at major functions plunge with the advent of Quixtar. I don’t think they ever recovered.

    You’re right that Jim Floor was a “smooth tongued devil”. I was in Biegert’s LOS.

  3. August 5, 2008 9:44 am

    There’s a big difference between a group getting smaller by folks breaking off into a new tool scam, and shrinking.

    Don Wilson stated in his recent court documents the height for him was 1995, when he was pulling in about 60,000/month to seminars, and ended up with about 10,000/month.

    Other than the Joe Morrison group that broke off in the late 90’s and subsequently got booted, I think most of Don’s shrinkage was caused by the internet alerting prospects and IBO’s about the tool scam and events like Bruce Anderson getting kicked out when he tried to tangle with Gooch over the tool scam profits.

  4. survivor642 permalink
    August 5, 2008 10:24 am

    My point was that INA has gotten much smaller in the last 10 years and not just by the numbers of the breakaway group. In another topic, Amthrax has a list of INA diamonds (after the breakaway group)doing other things. I’m very familiar with INA as you can see I spent many years drinking that flavor of Koolaid.

  5. August 5, 2008 12:07 pm

    And my point is INA isn’t alone.

  6. survivor642 permalink
    August 5, 2008 12:32 pm

    Yes, point taken, the AMO’s divide like amoebas. Tool money is the reason.

  7. August 5, 2008 5:38 pm

    Absolutely. Have you contacted the FTC to complain, and encouraged others to do the same?

  8. survivor642 permalink
    August 6, 2008 1:36 pm

    Nope, no complaints to the government. IMHO, a waste of time and effort. I trust the free market to weed out the shysters and con men (sorry, con persons). I am a libertarian (small l) and would love to see the government shrink to about the size it was in 1810. I don’t want to encourage them.

  9. August 7, 2008 10:23 am

    I would like the government to get smaller as well, but I would rather leverage the government than watch hundreds of thousands of IBO’s continue to get scammed.

    If you think this situation is bad now, it would be much worse if Ron Paul had his way, Amway would look like angels.

  10. survivor642 permalink
    August 8, 2008 6:15 am

    I didn’t say the situation was bad. In fact I think it is much better than even a few years ago. Virtually nobody these days would think of joining an mlm without plugging it into Google. Once they do that, about 99% of the prospects are scared off. You don’t need the government to supervise the consumer. The Internet is killing the Quixtar business instead of enabling it.

    Prediction: the name change back to Amway won’t accomplish anything due to the horrendous reputation built up over the years, and will go the way of Kirby vacuums and Fuller Brush. The “direct sales” model is in steep decline because it is too inefficient in moving goods. Companies like Walmart and Amazon are far better at delivering goods at prices AmQuix cannot match due to its clumsy, antiquated marketing and distribution systems as well as the need to boost prices to provide distributor bonuses.

    Ron Paul would be for letting people do what they want in these matters, which is already working as you see stagnation in the Amquix business for over 10 years.

  11. Ron permalink
    May 23, 2009 7:15 pm

    Tex, let it go, dude. Get a life man. You got way too much time on your hands my friend.

  12. Yahoo Yumbuckets permalink
    September 17, 2011 11:27 pm

    Joe Dendy is back to .. or better yet still a Vet … He is involved with a retail store as their “In House Vet”

    What a let down …

    BTW … I was in Joe’s direct downline at on point in my life.

  13. October 17, 2011 8:26 pm

    Those successful in building the business would have been successful in other endeavors as well. Most of the truly talented / bright / ambitious people that are / were attracted to the “opportunity” will eventually find success in another endeavor(s). The INA system of “duplicating success” allows very little room for individualism. Very few achievers copy their way to the top.

    INA would point to McDonald’s as an example of duplication. Compairing and IBO to a McDonald’s franchise? Please!

    Never-the-less, many of the success principals taught, or formerly taught at INA functions are relevant and helpful. Just remember they are not the be all, end all the INA leadership would have you believe.

  14. robert steele permalink
    January 10, 2019 4:41 pm

    Numbers are way down add so are the diamond numbers , Roger would say from stage ” do you want a million dollar business”, never said do you want to make a million. His stuff was on the internet. His income was 1/4 th that.. The diamond made money on there apperance’s and tools.


  1. Humor: Who Moved My MonaVie… or the next Amway Diamond to pull a Woodward « Amthrax
  2. Tape Recording Income Claims « Amthrax

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: