Skip to content

Humor: Orrin Woodward Tries To Justify His Status As A Legitimate Network Marketer, Proves Otherwise

September 12, 2008

Note: This post was originally published on September 12, 2008. I think the analysis is very important, given TEAM’s upcoming transition to LIFE. Does LIFE qualify as a legitimate network marketing company or is it a scam based on Orrin Woodward’s own words? Leave your comments below!

Since Supreme TEAM Leader Orrin Woodward is not allowing comments on some of his more substantive blog posts, I must take the opportunity to translate them here on this site. While this post is provided for humorous purposes for critics of MLMs, MonaVie, and TEAM, it’s meant to taken somewhat seriously by anyone building an MLM. Orrin does make some good points here; I just contend that they don’t necessarily apply to his business nor MonaVie.

Without further ado, the Supreme TEAM Leader in his own “true” words:

How do you separate a legitimate Network Marketing company from the various scams that develop from time to time? The discussion today is centered on the difference between legitimate network marketing companies and the illegitimate companies that attempt to fly under the network marketing banner.

Here I will tell you why Amway, a place where I spent fourteen of my fifteen MLM years, is an illegitimate Network Marketing company.

It is possible to have a legitimate company where distributors are building in an illegitimate way.

I would know. It takes one to know one!

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but merely my opinions from spending 15 plus years in the industry.

I am not a lawyer. I just play one on stage. BTW, I’m speaking at the MonaVie Believe conference next week in Utah. Y’all should all come out to hear me say the same stories I’ve been telling for the past fifteen years: Lung Busters, Nobodies Can Become Somebodies, The Seven Beliefs, Tools and Integrity, and…

The Law of Networking.

Like I said, I am not a lawyer, but I do a darn good impression of one on stage!

Let me share the 5 key principles that make up a legitimate company in my opinion.

I know I should not be bashing my former MLM, Amway, in which I spent fourteen years amassing my million-person… err… 60,000, TEAM Army, but here goes anyway!

1. A legitimate product that has true end users, not just consumption from people interested in making money from the compensation plan. — The FTC clearly ruled that the product should have true customer demand whether there was a pay plan or not. A simple test would be to determine if you love the product enough to use whether you were compensated or not. This ensures the value proposition of the product is right so that the networking company does not mark the price up outside of the value range. This protects the distributors and customers against a company interested in enhancing their own profits to the detriment of their distributors. If the product has no demand outside of the network, then you are probably entering the danger zone.

We have a product here at MonaVie that costs $40/bottle. Our recommended daily dosage of our super-super acai berry juice (made from concentrate) is 2oz twice a day1. That comes out to roughly one bottle a week per person. If you have a family of four, that means one case per month per person, or four cases a month. One case costs about $150, so your monthly expenditures on my fruit juice concentrate for your typical family of four is $600, or $7,200 a year.

Now, I know that you can buy fruit juice made from concentrate for about $3 bottle. An entire year’s supply for your family of four would in comparison be only around $600, but let’s not debate the math here. My pal, Dallin Larceny is not jacking up the price of MonaVie by 1200% here. If you read my interpretation of the MonaVie Income Disclosure Statement, he’s paying out 50% of revenue, which means Dallin’s only marking up his juice by 600%! That’s a fair deal, no?

2. Protection against inventory loadings. — No one should be hitting new levels in the networking field by buying products and loading them into your garage or basement. If the networking company or field leaders are encouraging massive product loading – they are entering into the illegitimate zone. A good product ought to have real demand that allows distributors to hit new level through the normal building of the business. If all of the pin winners have loads of product sitting in inventory, then you are probably entering the danger zone.

Now, if you are serious about building the business, I recommend to all of my downline to buy at least 3, 6, or… if you are really serious, 12 cases to get started. I know that’s a lot of cases, and I realize you don’t have much space in your house to store them. Shhh… just put them in the basement or garage and we won’t tell anyone about that, okay?

3. No heavy pay to play requirements. — The entrance fee should not be exorbitant where the main incomes are being made from “headhunting fees”. If it cost thousands of dollars to get started, you are probably entering into the danger zone.

Like I said in point #2, if you’re serious about building the business, you need to buy 12 cases of MonaVie and get on my 100% guaranteed success TEAM System. Cost to join? Let’s see… 12 cases of MonaVie = roughly $1600. My TEAM Training System… or about $50/month. Let’s just call it $1650 to get started… again, if you are serious!

4. Keep the main business the main business. – Training and sales aids are critical and necessary to the building of a stable and profitable community. Without proper training and leadership, a community will not hold together in the long run. There may be profits created through the proper use of training materials. A legitimate enterprise will share those profits with the field leaders in a fair and equitable way. If the profits from the training become higher than the profits from the business, then you are probably entering the danger zone. A good rule of thumb would be that profits from training ought to be around half of what you make from the network marketing company.

Let me explain to you the power of duplication and multiplication. I don’t care if you are in my downline or not. As long as you are buying my tapes, CDs, and attending my functions, you’re all a part of my TEAM and I love you for that.

You see, when I was in Amway, my main business was my TEAM. Now, I know that Dallin Larceny and I have this agreement whereby I can only make a half of my money from tools, but what’s the difference between $6 and $12 million dollars between friends? Shh… don’t tell anyone I told you this, but Dallin said that he’d thrown in a jet or Lamborghini for free if I hit Imperial Black Diamond this year!

5. No hidden non-competes or other anti-competitive practices in the contract – A legitimate company understands that people should be free to join or leave depending on whether the network marketing company satisfies the distributors and customers. If they do not satisfy the customers, why would people stay with their failing enterprise? To force people to stay in a business where they are not getting the results they desire in their life is not free enterprise and is not good for an industry that claims distributors are “independent” and “owners” of their own business. Why would a legitimate company require fences to ensure the community stays in their business? If there are legal fences in place to force people to stay in the network marketing company’s business then they probably are entering the danger zone.

Those $%!%! at Amway tried to lock me in for another fifteen years, and I didn’t want any of it. Those pyramid schemers over in Ada are horrible. Now, I know that I was a part of what I’m calling an illegitimate MLM for fourteen years, but I was a fricking shining white knight during my entire time there. I swear on Bill Britt’s bible that what I’m telling you is the truth!

I love the MonaVie Team because the way we build the MonaVie business is in line with the proper use of all five principles! The MonaVie Team’s goal is to build a million people community through serving our distributors and customers. Anyone is free to come or go based upon our ability to serve them. We are building a TEAM where Together Everyone Achieves More. How many true teams have you been part of in your life?

Join us for the opportunity to spend $7,200 a year on fruit juice made from concentrate and at least $1200 on my tapes/tools/functions. I guarantee2 you that after fifteen years on my TEAM, your $126,000 investment on fruit juice3 and motivation will have been worth it!

The MonaVie Team has some of the best leaders in the country and is Having Fun, Making Money and Making a Difference!

99% of my leaders came from Amway, an illegitimate network marketing company.

God Bless, Orrin Woodward

God Bless Me, Orrin Woodward

1 It’s been pointed out that MonaVie is not entirely made from concentrate. For instance, the acai is made from freeze-dried acai powder (not from concentrate). However, the label does say that 15 of the fruits are made from concentrate and the remaining 3 from fruit purees. That’s still a lot of concentrate being used!

Here’s the official description from a MonaVie bottle label: “100% juice blend of freeze-dried acai powder and whole fruit juice with 15 fruit juices from concentrates and 3 fruit purees.”

2 Results may vary from person to person. Everything in this post should be taken with a grain of salt. Orrin Woodward is not liable if you never make any money from MonaVie nor TEAM.

3 Here is a photo of the label from a MonaVie Active bottle.

MonaVie Active Label

24 Comments leave one →
  1. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    September 12, 2008 9:48 am

    I had a good laugh while reading this post, just like I do when I watched Believe mockumentary.

    But there is just one minor correction you need to make with regards to MonaVie, if you would bear with me.

    You mentioned time and again that MonaVie is made from concentrate, implying that there is purified water in the bottle, but the fact is that if you have a bottle, you can see that it states there in BIG bold letters, “100% JUICE”.

    There is just NO purified water in the product, and I noticed that there has been some recent misrepresentation done on the comparison chart from Dr Tim’s Brazilian Acai. If a company cannot be trusted to be accurate when depicting competitors, I would hesitate to believe what they have to say about their own (counterfeit) products.

  2. Joecool permalink
    September 12, 2008 10:01 am

    “A legitimate product that has true end users, not just consumption from people interested in making money from the compensation plan”

    Yep, I’m sure everyone was drinking $40 bottle of juice before joining MV.

  3. September 12, 2008 10:46 am

    Rykel – Can you show us a screenshot of your bottle? I’ve read numerous sites where people say the bottle says some of the fruit is from concentrate. Look at this link:

    It’s a PDF that has a screenshot of the label.

    Other Ingredients: Proprietary blend of açai (freeze-dried powder
    and whole fruit juice); fruit juice from concentrate (white grape,
    apple, acerola, aronia, purple grape, cranberry, passion fruit,
    apricot, prune, kiwi, blueberry, wolfberry, pomegranate, lychee,
    camu camu); fruit purees (pear, banana, bilberry); citric acid,
    natural flavor, sodium benzoate.

    MonaVie may have changed their manufacturing process, but that would be a pretty big change to go from concentrate to 100% fruit juice.

  4. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    September 13, 2008 8:14 am

    joecool, I don’t speak for “everybody”, but I DO have a family here who is drinking MonaVie WITHOUT participation in the compensation plan.

    And they were asking me about buying 12 cases in a single order to save money in order to share it with their friends WITHOUT knowing that there was a Plan.

    It was after I shared the Plan with them that they became even more excited that they would be rewarded for doing something they would have done anyway.

    Why? Because they had a sister whose cancer index was at 5000 just 2-3 weeks ago, then went down to 200 before chemo, and further down to 43 after chemo. The only thing that changed was her diet. She took Nutrilite AND MonaVie Juice 6 days before her chemo. 6 days!

    The dear sister also has good appetite and does NOT feel so much pain and lethargy every time after drinking MonaVie.

    As for the label, Amthrax, it says that the 15 other fruits were from concentrates – ie. white grape, apple, acerola, aronia etc. NOT acai.

    The acai is a blend of freeze-dried powder and whole fruit JUICe. (read the label again – it was Misinterpreted by the other guys)

    I hope this helps!

    btw, I am getting a screenshot, but how do I post it here for all to see?

  5. September 13, 2008 10:12 am

    Rykel – I see that the acai is not from concentrate, but many of the other fruit juices are from concentrate. Without knowing the exact proportions, I will continue to maintain that MonaVie is fruit juice from concentrate, though perhaps with a dash of freeze-dried acai powder. Send me your screenshot via email to amthrax (at) and I will post it onto the site.

  6. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    September 13, 2008 11:22 am

    Hi Amthrax,

    I have already emailed you the screenshot, but please pardon me if it is not a clear shot! (coz it was taken hastily by a friend on my behalf)

    Moving on, I would like to humbly suggest that you describe MonaVie as it is – a 100% juice blend of freeze-dried acai powder and whole fruit juice with 15 fruit juices from concentrates and 3 fruit purees.

    The reason is, and I am sure you know about this, that the first ingredient on an ingredient list is always the BULK of the product. That is why if you look at most of the juices out there, the first thing to be mentioned is Purified Water. (This is USA labeling law. The ingredient that makes up the bulk MUST be listed first.)

    Hope that is not too difficult for anyone here to accept, and btw, I enjoy your scientific attitude to things! (ie. willing to adjust your stand when facts are presented) So thank you!

    If I have presented anything incorrectly, I invite you all to point out my errors too.

  7. September 13, 2008 4:45 pm

    I’ve added a footnote to the post with the information from the label.

  8. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    September 13, 2008 7:55 pm

    Thanks a lot bud… I want the world to know that your decision to add a footnote was highly commendable!

    Anyway, I am getting a clearer screenshot for you, just hang in tight!

    p/s. one more footnote… people like us in Asia HAVE to buy 12 cases because the freight charges will kill us if we do not leverage on the bulk order pricing. And MonaVie stops First Order Bonus at the 2nd case in order to shift the money to discounted pricing for the 3rd to 12th cases. do you understand? 🙂

  9. September 14, 2008 4:57 pm

    This is a non-starter post. Go to your grocery store and you will easily find juices that say 100% pure, with a small notation they are from concentrate. If you remove water, then add water back in, it is still 100% pure juice.

  10. September 14, 2008 6:27 pm

    Because MonaVie doesn’t list how much of each ingredient is in MonaVie, we can only be certain that the acai powder is at least 5.6%. They list acai as the top ingredient, yes, but it could just be 5.7% of the final product.

  11. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    September 14, 2008 7:15 pm

    I agree that it is possible that the acai is just 5.7% of the total product, but then 2 questions arise:

    1. What solid, documented PROOF do we have to say that the acai is only 5.7%?
    2. If it is 5.7%, then, looking at the label, NONE of the other fruits/ingredients should be more than 5.6% individually, agreed?

    Tex: Where is a website which states that you can remove water, re-add water and still call it 100% “pure” juice? (btw, I was referring to ADDED purified water, not naturally occurring water in the juice – I mean, juice means water+!)

  12. September 14, 2008 7:32 pm

    There is no proof, because MV isn’t talking (and they are the ones who know for certainty). FWIW, I didn’t claim that the acai in MonaVie is 5.7%. It could be 20%, it could be 5.7%. It’s at least 5.6% though.

    To answer your question if concentrate juice can be called 100% juice, I believe the answer is yes:


    “From Concentrate.” Water is removed from whole juice to make concentrate; then water is added back to reconstitute to 100 percent juice or to diluted juice such as lemonade.

  13. September 14, 2008 7:33 pm

    I’ve added a photo of MV’s label at the end of this post. Thanks to Rykel for supplying me with the graphic.

  14. September 16, 2008 8:47 am

    Amthrax, you are most welcome!

    btw, I really enjoy having a good laugh, so if you have more posts like this one, do put them up. In fact, how about a couple of humour posts about critics too just for variety? 🙂

    You can make a joke out of me too if you like, but obviously, I have not been too polemical enough for brevity to form around me.

    Maybe I should. hehe

  15. john permalink
    August 6, 2011 9:02 am

    Rykel from Ssingapore, I doubt that you are really from singapore. But nonetheless you should understand the economic situation in the States. Our economy is faltering and many families are struggling to just get by. Many are unemployed, most families need to have their wives work outside of home. To do the Team business is just pure suicide for most average Americans. The cost is overwhelming to most, and those who get in thinking this is a good business opportunity find in a short while they have just shelled out a lot of money on nothing. This is why the drop out rate is so high. But Orrin Woodward or you and people like you just call them quitters. Team is a very expensive club to be a part of. More and more people will not be able to afford this in the days to come. If Team Monavie was such a good opportunity why are they switching to Lie-f? Monavie will be a secondary aspect. Watch carefully this next year the Total Team consumption of Monavie will drop dramatically as the new focus will be on purchasing lie-f tools. They are going to this new business venture because the top leaders knew all along they could never get to a million people with Monavie. The team leaders know what you are denying. Rykel do you think the team could have gotten to a million on Monavie alone?

  16. not signed up yet permalink
    August 6, 2011 10:59 am

    And Monavie could never compete in a free market, because it would never sell at that price. When I asked my sponsor who we are realtailing it to he told me “We buy it form ourselves and you make moeny on the volume of the people under you.” So the products jsut like everyhtign esle in TEAm are very inisder.

    And the formula sounds way too suspsicious for me. One bottle week, and you need 4 bottles a month. You cant jsut buy the stuff as you need it, you gotta commit to a case.
    Same with the tools….you get soem Cds buts its never enough….go power player not enough, go power palyer another 15 times…you can retire, but in your retirement you still gotta go to events and functions and show the plan 15 times week.

  17. August 6, 2011 1:54 pm

    I’m pretty sure that Rykel is indeed from Singapore. We’ve debated this point in the past, so no need to continue it. We haven’t heard from Rykel in a long time, so it would be interesting to see what he thinks about the transition away from MonaVie to selling tools as the primary business. Rykel?

  18. August 8, 2011 2:53 pm

    hey buddies, yeah, I have been away for a while… to be honest, I do NOT know much about the move to LIFE yet – indeed, I am NOT sure if the “primary” business is selling tools?? – but I do legitimately feel that the LIFE acronym is a more wholesome approach to building communities. Well, it sure does not hurt to try to live more intentionally for excellence and having improvements in the 8Fs of my life. btw, MonaVie Juice still tastes great! 🙂

  19. August 8, 2011 10:33 pm

    @Rykel – If TEAM moves away from MonaVie (despite what they say now about it being the pillar of F = Fitness), would you continue to drink it? Or would you move onto to whatever the TEAM leadership deemed as the thing to do with regards to Fitness???

  20. not signed up yet permalink
    August 9, 2011 5:54 pm

    Rykel I am all for Living Intentionally for Excellence, but I can do that without spending 200 bucks a month on juice, 50 bucks a month on opens and monthlies and 2500 bucks year on majors and several hundred buck on tools. I kinda like Tony robbins concept of CANI Constant and Never Ending Improvemnt…the cost 20 bucks for a book and there are no meetings to go to. I bought the book 20 years ago and still refer to it today.

  21. July 9, 2012 11:50 pm

    Signed up yesterday, not sure why, think I might quit while I’m ahead, or am i

  22. July 10, 2012 12:13 am

    How is it that in todays ‘age of technology’ that the Team/Life does not pay in Oz because it has not yet made it here? Please fill me in go getters

  23. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 10, 2012 10:11 am

    Hey Oz- Take another hit, then post again.


  1. XS Gold: Let the Juice Wars Begin… in at least two weeks! « Amthrax

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: