Skip to content

Emergen-C Vitamin Drink Mix vs. XS Gold

October 28, 2008

With all of the hoopla surrounding XS Gold, I took a look at some other products are there on the market. I recently got several packets of Emergen-C Vitamin Drink Mix. It’s a mixable powder1 that you add to water to give you the following vitamins and minerals (based on the original raspberry flavor). Compare it with XS Gold:

Item Emergen-C XS Gold
Calories 20 12
Vitamin C 1667% 50%
Vitamin B12 417% 8000%
Vitamin B6 500% 300%
Thiamin 25% n/a
Riboflavin 25% n/a
Niacin 25% 100%
Biotin n/a 50%
Folate n/a 50%
Folic Acid 3% n/a
Panthothenic Acid 25% 100%
Phosphorus n/a 2%
Calcium 5% 10%
Magnesium 15% 15%
Molybdenum n/a 50%
Zinc 13% 50%
Manganese 25% 50%
Selenium n/a 50%
Chromium 8% 50%
Sodium 3% 1%
Potassium 6% 3%
Cost per serving $0.30 $3.00

If we wanted to compare percentages, one can of XS Gold has in general a higher percentage of vitamins and minerals. Plus, it has the magical Essentra ingredient which is supposed to be so good for you.

But here’s where the two products really differ. The per serving cost of Emergen-C? 30 cents according to this Amazon.com listing. The per serving cost of XS Gold? $3.00.

That’s a 10x cost difference!

I like quality products. At the same time, I like products that have a good cost value proposition. For me, a serving of orange juice or Emergen-C is cheaper and offers plenty of nutrients. Or, I could tap drink water filtered through my Brita water filter.

These products might not offer everything that XS Gold offers, but they do have one unbeatable thing going for them: price.


1 Amway used to sell a mixable powder drink called Active-8. What ever happened to that product?

50 Comments
  1. October 28, 2008 12:51 pm

    Your comparison makes as much sense as comparing tap water to wine, then whining about the cost difference.

    Active-8 was discontinued.

  2. Joecool permalink
    October 28, 2008 1:26 pm

    Comparing tex to someone with a brain is like comparing tap water to wine.

  3. October 28, 2008 1:56 pm

    Amthrax,

    Just to get the B12 that Gold offers, you need to consume 19 packets of Emergen-C.

    Not to mention the other ingredients which Gold offers, that Emergen-C, water, and orange juice don’t.

    And why do you continue to refer to Essentra as “magical”? Have you read the white papers on it? Have you looked at the scientific clinicals?

    It’s kind of like calling gravity “magical”.

    Your posts are getting funnier and funnier. I guess there’s been some slow news days in the world of Amway Global lately. 🙂

  4. Joecool permalink
    October 28, 2008 2:00 pm

    Bridgett Quote: Just to get the B12 that Gold offers, you need to consume 19 packets of Emergen-C.

    Joe says: But XS Gold says it supplies 8000% of B12. How much more than 100% does your body need (and can use?)

  5. Porkchopjim permalink
    October 28, 2008 2:08 pm

    Joecool’s comment is right on track: megadosing on vitamins is NOT a great idea.

    Here’s a thought: if Amway made a decent vitamin, perhaps IBOs wouldn’t be so excited about supplemental ‘functional’ drinks.

  6. October 28, 2008 2:30 pm

    1) Our bodies, for optimal health, need way more than the RDI.

    2) A B-12 shot, which the first one I had was back in 1992, like my blog post mentions, had 1,000 mcg of B12. 6 mcg is 100% of the RDI. So a B12 shot has 16,667% of the RDI.

    3) Megadosing on fat-soluable vitamins is a horrible idea. B12 is a water-soluable.

    4) Before commenting on B12 and “megadosing”, I think it would be smart to know what B12 does, what it is, and what causes depletion of such vitamin in one’s body, and why depletion is not a good thing.

    5) Some people’s genetic make-up makes B-vitamin absorption a challenge. So high intake is necessary to get decent amounts in to the body. Interleukin Genetics offers a genetics test to determine if one has a challenge metabolising B vitamins.

    6) Amway produces Nutrlite supplements. Anyone seriously studying Nutrilite’s products, the company, the research and science, would know that Nutrilite produces more than a decent supplement.

    You guys are too funy! 😉

  7. October 28, 2008 2:31 pm

    I mean, “funny”.

    But I think I like my new word, “funy”, pronounced foo-nee.

  8. Gina permalink
    October 28, 2008 2:35 pm

    Here is what the mayo clinic has to say about B12…http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-B12/NS_patient-vitaminb12

    “Vitamin B12 is an essential water-soluble vitamin that is commonly found in a variety of foods such as fish, shellfish, meat, and dairy products. Vitamin B12 is frequently used in combination with other B vitamins in a vitamin B complex formulation. It helps maintain healthy nerve cells and red blood cells and is also needed to make DNA, the genetic material in all cells. Vitamin B12 is bound to the protein in food. Hydrochloric acid in the stomach releases B12 from protein during digestion. Once released, B12 combines with a substance called intrinsic factor (IF) before it is absorbed into the bloodstream.

    The human body stores several years’ worth of vitamin B12, so nutritional deficiency of this vitamin is extremely rare.”

    Mayo clinic’s ratings on various uses of b12

    ” Fatigue
    There is some evidence that intramuscular injections of vitamin B12 given twice per week might improve the general well-being and happiness of patients complaining of tiredness or fatigue. However, fatigue has many potential causes. Well-designed clinical trials are needed before a recommendation can be made. C= Unclear scientific evidence for this use”

    As for Essentra. Possibly Bridgett is referring to the white pages that were published by Nutra Genesis Nutrition, and the Director of Scientific Affairs within that company, who by the way is the company that holds the patent for Essentra. I guess we know now where that hefty price tag for XS Gold comes into play…they have to pay Nutra Genesis Nutrition for the use of essentra. Other than these white pages, there has not been a completed, released to the public, independently conducted research made thus far on Essentra. Guess we will all just have to trust those who are trying to sell it for a living as to its effectiveness and safely. Kind of like what so many people did with Ephedra until, opps, they found that it could kill people. The point is that anyone can call this Essentra as being great, or anything else for that matter, but in the end NO ONE actually knows for sure until there has been ample studies done and history of use for the product in question, so trying to make someone out to be ignorant by insinuating they didn’t take the time to read information about the product is useless and sophomoric at best just because they may hold a differing opinion on the subject.

  9. October 28, 2008 2:41 pm

    Everyone has their own opinion of what’s good enough. That opinion can be based on anecdotal evidence and/or backed by scientific evidence.

    Where I am drawing my line is in the cost/value analysis with XS Gold and other products. Is the benefit that XS Gold provides worth $3/can? Assume you drink one can a day… that’s $90/month, more than a month’s supply of Nutrilite Double X! Even if you mix and match regular XS with XS Gold throughout the month, you’re going to be paying close to Double X pricing.

    If XS Gold were priced a little more reasonably, some of my complaints might go away. The way that I see it, however, paying $3/can is really outrageous for what you’re getting back. You may disagree with me, and that’s fine; I respect your right to differ!

  10. October 28, 2008 3:23 pm

    Gina,

    You can contact the company who makes Essentra, Nutragenesis, and they can email you the 8-page clinicals in a PDF which support the white papers on their site.

  11. Joecool permalink
    October 28, 2008 3:30 pm

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-B12/NS_patient-vitaminb12

    Vitamin B12 is an essential water-soluble vitamin that is commonly found in a variety of foods such as fish, shellfish, meat, and dairy products. Vitamin B12 is frequently used in combination with other B vitamins in a vitamin B complex formulation. It helps maintain healthy nerve cells and red blood cells and is also needed to make DNA, the genetic material in all cells. Vitamin B12 is bound to the protein in food. Hydrochloric acid in the stomach releases B12 from protein during digestion. Once released, B12 combines with a substance called intrinsic factor (IF) before it is absorbed into the bloodstream.

    The human body stores several years’ worth of vitamin B12, so nutritional deficiency of this vitamin is extremely rare.

    A day’s supply of vitamin B12 can be obtained by eating 1 chicken breast plus 1 hard-boiled egg plus 1 cup plain low-fat yogurt, or 1 cup milk plus 1 cup raisin bran.

  12. October 28, 2008 3:34 pm

    Gina,

    I know it may be hard to see, but the excerpt you provide is not from the Mayo Clinic. It’s from the mayoclinic.com website, but if you look right under the B12 heading you’ll see that it’s from another source, “NaturalStandard.com”.

    I’ve attempted, in the past, to find out more about this article from naturalstandard, since the article has erroneous and old information, but haven’t been able to without “subscribing” to their database, which I am unwilling to do.

    B12 is a water-soluable vitamin, and therefore is NOT stored in the body. So it must be consumed on a regular basis.

    Also, the article states the RDA (an old measurement), rather than the RDI, (new measurement)which is 300% the RDA.

  13. Joecool permalink
    October 28, 2008 3:58 pm

    I’ll say one thing, Quixtar is good at getting IBOs hyped up about nothing. When I was an IBO, there was all this hype about Ginko Biloba and how it sharpened awareness, etc etc.

    There were other products that generated much hype as well. We recently saw the hype of perfect water, now we have XS Gold with essentra.

    How much of this product is being sold to people who are not IBOs? 3.4 percent?

  14. October 28, 2008 4:07 pm

    Amthrax,

    I agree with you that it is a personal choice as to how one uses their money.

    One has to weigh the benefits of something to see if it’s worth parting with their dollars.

    And this decision process takes in to account one’s priorities and one’s circumstances.

  15. October 28, 2008 4:51 pm

    Just to be clear, the 8-page document I referred to in my comment to Gina is

    a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled study, which was published in a peer-reviewed journal.

    Translation: all the attributes of an excellent clinical.

    Not an in-house, secret, unscientific sloppy study.

  16. Gina permalink
    October 28, 2008 4:52 pm

    Bridgett,
    Maybe it was hard for you to see the link to the website of natural standard.com where if you follow you will find that they are the independent group which preformed this particular study. And just to be sure I called the local Mayo clinic to ask if this website was in fact a part of the mayo clinic, the answer was ” yes, of course.” But hey if you want to go ahead and find some other way to discredit the very viable information I posted regarding B12, go ahead I am sure that your extensive medical background is enough anyone will need. If you’d like you could take the time and google B12 and see the various results. Or do you feel you may need to contact Google for further information on their search engine results?

    Oh and no need for me to contact the company that holds the patent on Essentra to see more of the great results they say their own employees found while they were conducting their very own clinical study….it is all on the internet on their very own site. Let me know when you find that independent study. Not everyone jumps at the first sentence or first article they read when researching. Stop assuming I am.

  17. Gina permalink
    October 28, 2008 5:05 pm

    It may have also been hard for one to notice where it is written “You should consult with a qualified healthcare provider before making decisions about therapies and/or health condition.” I wonder how many IBO’s are qualified heathcare providers?

  18. Porkchopjim permalink
    October 28, 2008 5:24 pm

    1) Our bodies, for optimal health, need way more than the RDI.

    Really? Says Bridgett?

  19. October 28, 2008 5:27 pm

    Gina,
    Yes, mayoclinic.com is a part of the Mayo Clinic. And they subscribe to the company from which that article you reference is from, which is inaccurate. Looking at other sources with concur with my statement.

    Having been a vegetarian for 16 years, and B12 being found foods I don’t eat–like red meat, I have been aware of B12 many years before XS existed and many years before I became an IBO.

    I wasn’t aware that taking vitamins was a therapy and that I need to contact my healthcare provider.

    The clinicals for Essentra are not “in-house”, as I said earlier. Upon doing some Googling, I did find the clinical. Because it is published in this journal, it is considered peer-reviewed, which gives it a high level of authenticity. http://www.ana-jana.org/Journal/pdf/Janarevised4.pdf

    Gina,
    Have I done something to make you antagonistic toward me? If so, I apologize.

  20. October 28, 2008 5:34 pm

    Porkchopjim,

    Yes, here is a difference between being deficient and having optimal health.

    RDIs are set up to avoid deficiencies, not optimal health.

    Porkchopjim, are you a student of nutrition and it’s effect on health and disease?

    I am aware that you are not a fan of the Amway business, to say the least. And at this point, I’m starting to get the sense that you are not interested in having a true dialogue.

    This is the challenge with anti-Amway sites. Not really interested in true discussion.

    *sigh*

    I see I am not welcome here.

    You all have won. You are winners!!!

    Cheers!

    🙂

  21. October 28, 2008 7:08 pm

    Wow. Taking things a little personal are we?

  22. Gina permalink
    October 28, 2008 7:53 pm

    Nope, all those clinicals on Essentra are in fact in-house. Check your information again. Is there anything on Essentra from the FDA? In fact is there anything on Essentra on the internet that isn’t from a company trying to sell it in some form?

    You say that B12 is good for combating fatigue (paraphrasing). Fatigue is in fact considered to be a medical condition to of which you happen to be suggesting a therapy of sorts, so yes asking a medical professional would be advised. Anytime anyone wants me to put 8000% of the daily recommended dosage of anything in my body then yes, it would be wise to consult a medical professional. I have yet to find a single study which confers with your statement. In fact many of these sites do make mention to the various foods to eat in order to get ones fill of B12 and nothing of supplements. I did find this vegan site though…http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm…It starts with…”The requirement for vitamin B12 is very low.” Which also supports what I and others are saying. I am sure as I know you are, that PCJ is not a nutritionist but is simply asking valid question regarding your seemingly better knowledge of recommended daily dosages, but it does lead to the misconception that maybe you are a nutritionist? Are you a nutritionist? If not, then where is the difference?

    And no, Bridgett you have done nothing to me, but I do take issue with anyone who purports being of some kind of medical professional in order to sell a “functional” drink. I am not too sure why an IBO can’t just sell. You all say how great the products are but then go and make bloated claims about their effectiveness or their ingredients.

    No one has done anything here to infer that you are unwelcome or that there is no true dialogue. What would be true dialog for you? If we all wrote how smart you are and how your information is more than valid and correct? If this is a challenge with anti-Amway sites then what do you call when one poses viable questions on a pro-amway site and the comments are closed, the person is banned and in some cases the whole thread has been dumped so no one can ever see it again? Get over yourself, no one was looking to win, except possibly you by the sound of your “you are winners” comment. Why would you assume any of us even care if we are perceived by you to be winners? This is a true discussion, you just don’t like the direction it has headed. But please in true IBO fashion make some final off the wall comment in an effort to make the critics look as though they have posed some kind of one-sided, unfair, unbalanced fight, wish us all well, because after all you wouldn’t want people to think you are being rude, and then leave never addressing anything further….yeah, that is a great approach and it is offensive.
    Cheers!!!

  23. mike permalink
    October 28, 2008 10:19 pm

    The issue about using Double-X or drinking a can of XS gold, one must ask themselves is it worth it, is it something that I need.

    There may be some that can get a benefit from the use of Double-X, but does that mean that everyone needs it.

    Regardless of the content, the price. Is the product something that one needs or is it something that one needs to sell..

  24. October 29, 2008 5:34 am

    mike,

    “Need” is not a fixed concept. Some folks value nutrition more than others. Anyone gets a benefit from Double X, the question is whether YOU value the benefit enough for the money it costs. Using Double X makes it much easier to sell, as you can tell your potential customers you take it and value it. Spare me the Rolls Royce sales person who doesn’t own a Rolls Royce, yet sells them. Apples and oranges.

  25. Porkchopjim permalink
    October 29, 2008 6:33 am

    I am aware that you are not a fan of the Amway business, to say the least. And at this point, I’m starting to get the sense that you are not interested in having a true dialogue.

    Right back at ya, and I deserve more than a standard tapespeak response!

    The true dialog, which we never got to, was what is ‘optimal health’, what are the levels of vitamins and other nutrients necessary for ‘optimal health’, what were your specific values of those ‘optimal health’ nutrients that you deemed deficient before you started mega-dosing on vitamins, and what are your current values of those nutrients that give you ‘optimal health’…

    …or are you just guessing and mega-dosing on vitamins as a way of consuming PV?

    People spend a lot of money, needlessly, on ‘optimal health’ products when there is no basis whatsoever for it beyond a mismash of ‘studies show it might help’ and the erroneous ‘if some is good more is better’ and ‘the RDI is the bare-bones minimum.’

    So glad we could have an adult conversation about that without you huffing off feigning indignation.

  26. Joecool permalink
    October 29, 2008 9:51 am

    Hey, between double x, XS Gold and perfect water, IBOs will live to be 150 years old! Think of all the residual income they can collect!

  27. Joecool permalink
    October 29, 2008 11:22 am

    http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/vitaminB12.php

    Vitamin B12 (Cobalamin)
    Vitamin B12 is an important vitamin for maintaining healthy nerve cells and it aids in the production of DNA and RNA, the body’s genetic material. Vitamin B12 also works closely with vitamin B9 (folate) to regulate the formation of red blood cells and to help iron function properly in the body. Furthermore, vitamin B12 is needed for Calcium absorption. Deficiencies of vitamin B12 are usually caused by a lack of intrinsic factor, a substance that allows the body to absorb vitamin B12 from the digestive system. Such a deficiency can cause a range of symptoms such as fatigue, shortness of breath, diarrhea, nervousness, numbness or tingling sensation in the fingers and toes. People with the blood disorder pernicious anemia do not produce sufficient intrinsic factor and must take high doses of vitamin B12 to maintain their health. Vegetarians who follow a strict vegan or macrobiotic diet are also at risk of deficiency in Vitamin B12.

    Vitamin B12, also called cobalamin, is one of eight water-soluble B vitamins. They are vitamins which are soluble in water ane are dispersed throughout the body dissolved in fluid. They are not stored in the body to any appreciable extent and must be replaced every day. Their influence on the body lasts for 14-18 hours after ingestion after which their potency decreases. Excessive intake of water-soluble vitamins is typically passed out through the urine. If your diet contains less than 50% RDA of water-soluble vitamins, deficiency symptoms may be displayed in as little as 4 weeks; much quicker than for fat-soluble vitamins.

    Here’s the important part: “. Excessive intake of water-soluble vitamins is typically passed out through the urine.”

  28. October 29, 2008 12:31 pm

    jc,

    So what is the “excessive” level that is passed out through the urine? Is it when you reach 101% of the RDI? This article also implies you need a constant supply of B12, which is in conflict with the article above. I don’t know which one is right, but I tend to believe this article, as being water soluble and being passed through the urine implies it is depleted.

  29. October 29, 2008 5:47 pm

    Nutritional supplements nearly amount to snake oil quackery. Many scientific studies show that merely eating a balanced diet does more to guarantee good health than consuming any number of questionable supplements.

    The ingredients for many of these over-hyped products cost pennies while the products sell for high dollar. Is it any wonder Rich and Jay are the billionaires they’ve become. Ever wonder why the items with the highest PV value are these rather cheap to produce crappy items like XS?

    Amway consumers all buying $80 per person per month vitamins that cost next to nothing to produce where the packaging most likely costs more than the ingredients? (Barley greens and the like.) Hmmmm?

    Eat right; pop a One a day if you must; eat an apple or an orange from time to time; save your money for other pursuits, and forget about Amway. Makes good sense to me! Save time and money.

    Mega doses of vitamins can be had for a lot cheaper than Amway’s monopoly priced supplements if one absolutely must have them. Even GNC is cheaper.

    Nutrilite came under the gun as quackery almost from their inception. Double X can easily be described as a Double Cross on duped folk who think they are going to get rich swallowing them in the Amway plan to wealth and fortune.

    The ingredients in XS drinks sound more like a chemical lab experiment gone askew. Nothing I’d want to drink. XS drinks taste like crap leaving an awful after taste! You could squeeze every vitamin known to man into one of these 8 ounce scams in a can, and I’d still pour them down the toilet. Yuk!

    Just another scam in a can for duped folk to waste their time and money on every month. More hype from the company that brought Empowered Perfect Water to the doors of the Amway faithful!

    Joecool, these crap XS drinks get passed out as urine, but to me they tastes nearly that bad going in. I’d swear some of these drinks are radio-active. Might make one fail a drug test down at the JOB.

  30. rlaurens permalink
    October 30, 2008 4:50 pm

    “Our bodies, for optimal health, need way more than the RDI.”

    Reeeeeallly???

    So, if we take, say, 100 grams of Vit B12 then we’ll be have more ‘optimal health’?

    No siree Bob. You’ll die.

    http://msds.chem.ox.ac.uk/CY/cyanocobalamine.html

  31. Joecool permalink
    October 31, 2008 11:07 am

    Tex, I think the point of the article is that anything in excess of 100% might not be all that beneficial to you. Another thing to consider is that your body absrobs vitamin B12 from other sources, such as certain foods that you eat. I don’t believe the average person eating a balanced diet would have any problem.

    The IBOs have simply overhyped the need for B12 in their quest to promote and sell the XS Gold. Sure, XS gold might be a decent product, but clearly, you can find similar or better products for a fraction of the cost.

    Even when IBOs argue that for example, double x is the best vitamin in the world, the question is whether the cost justifies the purchase. Quixtar probably spends $7 to $8 to produce a bottle of double x. Why do IBOs have to spend %52 or customers $78 to get a one month supply?

    Did you know that quixtar employees, last I heard, can purchase double x for $10 to $12. What does that tell you?

  32. October 31, 2008 2:08 pm

    The point of RDI levels is based on preventing disease for a “typical” person, not the optimum level. Add in factors such as pollution, physical activity, genetic factors, etc., and you may be severely less than optimum.

    The “average person” doesn’t eat a balanced diet.

    I think you couldn’t find a “similiar” product. You would have to combine 2 or more, then compare the cost.

    If you want only more B12 and other energy ingredients, and not the “functional” part of XS Gold, the XS syrup can’t be beat for price.

    How do you know how much Double X costs to make? Even assuming you’re right, the manufacturer to customer markup on most products isn’t much different than Double X. Do you know the difference between the manufacturer and retail outlet?

  33. mike permalink
    October 31, 2008 3:12 pm

    Double-X was designed for those with a bad diet, those that are unable to get the foods they need.

    Example someone that smokes would need to take Vitamin A and C to counteract the effect of smoking, or at least slow it down.

    “It’s a good idea to take vitamins regardless of whether or not you have ever smoked. That’s because most of us don’t eat a balanced diet that provides us with all of the vitamins we need.”
    http://www.stop-smoking-tips.com/effects-smoking-vitamin-a-c.html

    The last sentence is the point. again

    The best solution is to change your eating habits and introduce more good foods to provide the right nutrition, but in the meantime, vitamin supplements can be helpful to prevent vitamin deficiencies.
    http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Important-Reasons-To-Take-Vitamin-Supplements-In-Order-To-Stay-Fit-And-Healthy&id=377187.

    5 reasons to take vitamin supplements
    Lifestyle-bad habits:Vitamin C taken each day can counteract the effects of smoking and drinking a little too much alcohol
    Osteoporosis and birth defects:The best way to counterbalance the risks of disease is taking calcium supplements
    Less heart disease and cleaner arteries:There are large scale university studies, which prove the efficiency of Vitamin E against cardiovascular mishaps, such as heart attacks
    Low calories diet and low immunity: The problem appears when the real thin cat walk girls turn out to become role models to other women and girls who strive to be like them. Unfortunately they do this by refusing food and proper nutrition and often become anorexic
    Reduced cancer risk:Taking vitamin E may also help avoid certain cancers. A John Hopkins University research associated vitamin E supplements to a decrease in skin cancer. The same applies for Vitamin A (beta-carotene) supplement, as well.

    Point is, vitamins are needed for specfic applications.

  34. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 4, 2008 8:35 am

    The point of RDI levels is based on preventing disease for a “typical” person, not the optimum level. Add in factors such as pollution, physical activity, genetic factors, etc., and you may be severely less than optimum.

    “May be” – well, there’s no ‘may be’ on this: you’re guessing.

    Fine, Texie: what is the ‘optimum’ level? What’s YOUR ‘optimum’ level – you should at least know that? No?

    Don’t mind us if we ignore your recommendations and conjectures.

    Here’s a link that talks about DRIs (vs. RDI – get with the program):
    http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/DRI//DRI_Thiamin/1-16_150.pdf

    Here’s a quote: “UL = maximum level of daily nutrient uptake that is likely to pose no risk of adverse effects…Because of a lack of suitable data, Uls could not be established for thiamin, riboflavin, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, or biotin. In the absence of ULs, extra caution may be warranted in consuming levels above recommended intakes.”

    Don’t let that science hit you in the head Tex when you’re making guesses about ‘optimum’ and scarfing down vitamins and energy drinks to get a rebate!

    I think you couldn’t find a “similiar” product. You would have to combine 2 or more, then compare the cost.

    Guessing again.

    If you want only more B12 and other energy ingredients, and not the “functional” part of XS Gold, the XS syrup can’t be beat for price.

    Of course Tex can’t find the same dose of B12 for less than 50 cents each. That might require the discovery of some painful ‘truths’ and ‘facts’ he crows about.

    How do you know how much Double X costs to make? Even assuming you’re right, the manufacturer to customer markup on most products isn’t much different than Double X.

    Guessing again. Just so happens that Kirkland has a USP certified multi-vitamin (which Nutrilite can’t claim) that costs about $10 A YEAR.

    Do you know the difference between the manufacturer and retail outlet?

    Yeah – the manufacturer outlet shows how cheap you can get the same exact product without tacking on the ‘business opportunity’ associated with it. You, as the retail consumer AND retail business owner can’t get the exact same product for anything even close to reasonable cost. I see why you bring that up – it must be a source of pride for you!

  35. November 4, 2008 11:42 am

    I’m not guessing at all. I’ve seen several stories over the years, written by various and well known wellness related authors (not selling any particular brand, by the way), and it is uncanny how what I find on the Double X label is either EXACTLY or very close to their recommendations. The AMA didn’t even recommend a multi-vitamin until about 4-5 years ago, yet a lot of people missed out on DECADES of clinical research indicating supplementation is the right thing to do. The medical/doctor industry is notoriously slow at making these recommendations, most of them know little about nutrition, and even have a conflict of interest in KEEPING you healthy rather than REPAIRING the damage. Bringing a nutritional question to most doctors is similar to bringing your car that needs a tune up to a body shop.

    There is no single optimum level, it depends on your age, sex, environment, activity level, genetic predispositions, etc (Interleukin has a great test that determined I absorb vitamin B less efficiently than other folks, for example).

    Feel free to ignore whatever you want, I look forward to kicking dirt on your grave.

    That same source also says they used the lightest potential weight for those recommendations, implying someone heavier should take more. I don’t even know the date of that source, it may be quite outdated as well.

    Don’t let that science hit you in the head pcj when you’re making guesses about ‘minimum’ and dying an early death to get a rise out of me!

    I’m not guessing about combining products either, just read the comparison chart for yourself.

    My point was not about ONLY B12. Try reading it for comprehension next time. Unless you can’t concentrate adequately because you’re shooting for the minimum nutritional intake.

    Perhaps Nutrilite is satisfied with their own 70+ years of expertise and quality control. Nutrilite has superior ingredients to anything that is sold for $10/year.

    There are MANY steps between a manufacturers and retail outlets. Better pop some more vitamins so you can remember that! If you don’t expect Amway to make a profit and pay IBO’s, why make Double X at all?

  36. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 7, 2008 10:52 am

    I’m not guessing at all. I’ve seen several stories over the years, written by various and well known wellness related authors (not selling any particular brand, by the way), and it is uncanny how what I find on the Double X label is either EXACTLY or very close to their recommendations.

    So, as I said, no science, then.

    There is no single optimum level,

    Yeah – I know. So, anything you recommend is just guessing, isn’t it? Just as I said.

    Feel free to ignore whatever you want, I look forward to kicking dirt on your grave.

    Megadosing on vitamins and chugging artificial ingredients in XS isn’t the path to success you hope it is.

    That same source also says they used the lightest potential weight for those recommendations, implying someone heavier should take more. I don’t even know the date of that source, it may be quite outdated as well.

    Not implying. You’re guessing, again. Fat people need more vitamins because they are fat? Good science there.

    And I know you’re new to the whole ‘internet research’ thing – but finding the date isn’t that hard, Mr. Wizard.

    Nutrilite has superior ingredients to anything that is sold for $10/year.

    Who was it that was complaining about wild, unsubstantiated claims? Oh, right, that was Tex.

    Funny how no independent lab tests support your assertion. In fact, the $10/year vitamin passes quality standards that your overpriced vitamin apparently can’t.

    There are MANY steps between a manufacturers and retail outlets.

    So, why are your products so expensive the way you buy them?

    If you don’t expect Amway to make a profit and pay IBO’s, why make Double X at all?

    Watch your head, Tex! Amway isn’t paying you: you’re paying yourself. Amway just gives it back to you.

    Why make Double X? Because morons like you don’t mind paying MUCH extra based on a failed (in your case) business opportunity and advertising disquised as science.

  37. November 7, 2008 3:07 pm

    Absolutely scientific studies.

    There’s a HUGE difference between the minimum, recommended maximum, and a “guess.”

    I’m not megadosing on anything, and there are no more artificial ingredients in XS than most other Americans consume.

    Of course it implied it, and you don’t have to be fat to be heavier.

    What wild, unsubstantiated claim did I make?

    There are independent studies coming out all the time that find new benefits of the natural ingredients Nutrilite has used for several decades.

    Just because Nutrilite hasn’t passed whatever test of dubious benefit doesn’t mean it can’t.

    The products are “expensive” because of the unique ingredients and processing.

    I only “pay myself” for my own personal purchases, any customers and downline volume results in Amway paying me.

    You don’t have a clue whether my business has failed, and haven’t been paying attention to the latest science if you think Nutrilite is mere advertising.

  38. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 7, 2008 10:39 pm

    I see, as usual, you cannot provide anything other than your opinion, and wild unsubstantiated claims that you say you hate so much.

    It has been noted.

    And, no – Amway still isn’t paying you. It’s your downline and customers for those purchases.

    You’ve provided no science at all. 15 years, 1000PV (years ago) and tens of thousands of dollars spent on tools is failure in everyone’s book except yours. At least your vitamin science is as good as your business sense.

  39. November 8, 2008 6:14 am

    I see, as usual, you cannot provide anything other than your opinion, and wild unsubstantiated claims that you say you hate so much.

    It has been noted.

    Really? I haven’t seen a single check from any of my downline or customers. Can you explain, inquiring minds would like to know? Are you still on your tired and stupid argument the downline and customers pay for the items, then Amway pays me part of that money? How is that different than any other commission sales situation? LOL

    You’ve provided no logic at all. 3 years, thousands of stupid blog posts is failure in everyone’s book except yours. At least your lack of vitamin intake doesn’t allow your mind to realize how stupid you are. LOL

  40. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 8, 2008 3:48 pm

    I see, as usual, you cannot provide anything other than your opinion

    Don’t forget to ingore the USDA link I provided that warned against mega-dosing on vitamins.

    I haven’t seen a single check from any of my downline or customers

    Works the same way as you ‘paying yourself’. Inquiring minds know that. Slow to absorb minds seem to lag behind.

    Are you still on your tired and stupid argument the downline and customers pay for the items, then Amway pays me part of that money?

    Yeah – that’s how it works. So how can you say it doesn’t work that way…and say it does in the same paragraph? TexLogic, of course!

    You’ve provided no logic at all.

    I’ll reserve that judgement to people who are qualified to make it. That would not include you.

    Your link was great and PROVED that megadosing on vitamins is a good idea!

    Actually, all your link provided was evidence that fruits and vegetables are good for you and provide you the necessary nutrients. Groundbreaking! Even doctors know that…who according to KookTex are intent on making people sick to enrich themselves.

    So – again – what are your levels of vitamins that provide you with ‘optimal health’ and how do you know you have ‘optimal health’?

    That, along with your ‘superior ingredient’ garbage are your two big unsubstantiated (i.e. – bogus) claims.

  41. November 8, 2008 8:02 pm

    Don’t forget to ignore the comment to keep taking the minimal amount of vitamins and other nutrients I made earlier so I can kick dirt on your grave.

    You don’t think there’s a difference between getting a rebate for personal consumption than getting paid for your customer and downline purchases that you didn’t pay for?

    I also see you “forgot” to comment on the commission point I made, must be a lack of vitamin intake. LOL

    You’ve provided no logic at all. I don’t have to reserve judgment on that, it’s obvious. LOL

    If people don’t actually consume enough of the fruits and vegetables, and most don’t, supplementation makes even more sense, unless you’re already operating on a vitamin deficit, then nothing makes sense. LOL

    I never said doctors are intent on making people sick to enrich themselves, you liar.

    I’m not going to tell you my optimum level of vitamins and other nutrients, it’s different for everyone. However, most people should consume between the recommended minimum and maximum with the proper relative levels for certain ones. As just one example, calcium works much better when taken with magnesium, as Double X provides.

    If you’ve never investigated phytonutrients, which Double X provides, you don’t have a clue discussing superior ingredients, so it’s a waste of my time to discuss with you, as usual.

  42. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 8, 2008 9:58 pm

    To follow up on your ‘link’:

    I see where it says veggies and fruits are good for you because they contain vitamins and other nutrients.

    I see where it says that most people don’t eat enough fruits and veggies to get them the vitamins and nutrients that they need.

    I seem to have missed (because it doesn’t exist) the part that says mega-dosing on vitamins promotes ‘optimal health.’

    And why is your expensive vitamin so deficient that you feel the need to supplement it with regular ‘functional drinks’?

  43. November 9, 2008 6:17 am

    You are assuming the “link” contains every fact known to mankind regarding vitamins and other nutrients. Not a good assumption, but why should we be surprised? LOL

    I never claimed Double X to be deficient, there are several things in Double X not found in the functional drinks, and I’ve never had a functional drink. Perhaps one can choose one or the other depending on their nutritional needs and/or interest. LOL

    But why let simple logic get in the way of a discussion, right pcj? LOL

  44. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 9, 2008 1:33 pm

    You are assuming the “link” contains every fact known to mankind regarding vitamins and other nutrients. Not a good assumption, but why should we be surprised?

    All I asked for was a link that showed mega-dosing on vitamins provided for ‘optimal health.’ You failed. Now you’re upset. Repeat.

    I’ve never had a functional drink..

    Then what does XS syrup do for you with its extra B12 and artificial components?

    But why let simple logic get in the way of a discussion, right pcj?

    Simple logic is beyond you, Texie, so we can’t really use that, can we? Enough people have tried.

    Hey, wasn’t there a group of people who said you were supposed to be ‘walking the beaches’ at this point in your Amway career? Just like your vitamin ‘advice’ – your research is sadly lacking, and I know reality isn’t a pill you can swallow because there’s no PV associated with it.

  45. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 9, 2008 1:38 pm

    I never said doctors are intent on making people sick to enrich themselves, you liar.

    Seems you missed this part earlier when you said:

    The medical/doctor industry is notoriously slow at making these recommendations, most of them know little about nutrition, and even have a conflict of interest in KEEPING you healthy rather than REPAIRING the damage

    Oh, well. I don’t mind pointing that out to everyone.

    I’m not going to tell you my optimum level of vitamins and other nutrients, it’s different for everyone.

    I didn’t ask for everyone. I just asked for yours. Obviously, you don’t know it. Seems you’ve been caught making ‘outlandish claims’ again.

    However, most people should consume between the recommended minimum and maximum with the proper relative levels for certain ones.

    Who’s minimums and maximums, Texie? I’ve already shown that the USDA does not know the maximums for the safe use of some of the ‘vitamins’ that you are taking.

    How long are you going to keep making things up?

  46. November 9, 2008 4:22 pm

    The point is I don’t “megadose” or recommend “megadosing” on vitamins to others. The premise of your question is BS. You failed. Now you’re upset. Repeat.

    XS is an energy drink, XS Gold is an energy plus functional drink.

    Simple logic is beyond you, pcj-ie, so we can’t really use that, can we? Enough people have tried.

    Yes, and that group of people were booted.

    I said the medical community was slow, lacked nutritional knowledge, and have a conflict of interest in keeping someone healthy versus “repairing” them after they break, that is nowhere NEAR being “intent on making people sick to enrich themselves.” LIAR

    Oh, well. I don’t mind pointing that out to everyone.

    The optimum level isn’t fixed. There is a minimum to prevent certain diseases, there’s an amount above which may be harmful, and the entire middle ground is available which probably is beneficial. For example, over the past couple of years, the amount of vitamin D recommended has increased. So if you waited for this information to be determined before increasing your vitamin D intake, you would have missed years/decades of potential benefit. It’s your choice. I view it as insurance. Take it or leave it.

    Pick your own minimums and maximums. I’ll go with the company that pioneered nutritional supplements, has dozens of scientists/researchers, are well respected in their field, and have a multi-billion dollar per year business to lose if they give out harmful information.

  47. Porkchopjim permalink
    November 10, 2008 7:08 am

    The point is I don’t “megadose” or recommend “megadosing” on vitamins to others. The premise of your question is BS.

    Up to 17 times the recommended amount of certain vitamins – of which the USDA can not determine a safe amount for an upper limit – is in fact megadosing.

    Taking more vitamins than your body can do anything with is in fact megadosing.

    Crowing about how megadosing gives you ‘optimal health’ – and then being unable to explain what that is, or even what TESTED levels you have that give you ‘optimal health’ is snake oil garbage.

    STILL nothing you can show that megadosing gives you optimal health?

    …that is nowhere NEAR being “intent on making people sick to enrich themselves.”

    It sure is NEAR – it’s right on the money. I like it when you’re forced to back-track, squirm and then outright lie to get out of the idiocy that you have trapped yourself in. Keep trying – we’ll let you know if you get ‘NEAR’ to being right!

    XS is an energy drink, XS Gold is an energy plus functional drink.

    And all that is Texgarbage – words that don’t mean anything to someone who isn’t taking this junk to get a ‘rebate’.

    The optimum level isn’t fixed.

    So, without lots of tests, you’re guessing at what your optimal level is – just like I said. No matter what you try, that part has not changed.

    There is a minimum to prevent certain diseases, there’s an amount above which may be harmful, and the entire middle ground is available which probably is beneficial.

    How hard was that to finally admit? Now, I know a full-blown too-many-vitamins-and-cult-mind-control-tapes like you doesn’t see the difference between what you just said and what you claim about ‘optimal health’ – but there is a difference.

    It would be nice if you’d stop repeating what I already know and also stop avoiding how you can’t justify your ‘optimal health’ garbage.

    Now – notice you said ‘PROBABLY BENEFICIAL’ – do you have anything to back that up? OR – is that another claim, albeit less outlandish than ‘optimal health’?

    So if you waited for this information to be determined before increasing your vitamin D intake, you would have missed years/decades of potential benefit.

    Funny how cultists can only see one side of the coin. If you unjustly megadose on vitamins before upper safe limits are determined, you’d be decades in the hole for damage.

    It’s not insurance, Tex – it’s science.

    Pick your own minimums and maximums.

    THE TRUTH – FINALLY! No basis for determining where your ‘optimal health’ levels are other than guessing.

    And don’t worry about Amway losing their ‘multi-billion dollar business’ because of giving out bad information. They’ve been giving out bad information for decades now – and you keep buying the dream.

    Your inability to answer a few simple questions early on serves as notice to anyone new, and allows them to quickly surmised that you are full of crap.

  48. November 10, 2008 9:46 pm

    The USDA does not have leading edge information. I explained that, are you stupid?

    It’s not even close to the same.

    The fact that XS Gold is a functional plus energy drink is the main point, one that you don’t “get.” Amthrax, if you don’t start calling BS to these comments, I’ll just assume you agree with pcjimmie.

    You don’t have to nail down an exact optimal amount, just keep it between the minimum and maximum. I’ve been saying that all along, you just don’t understand simple concepts. I know I said “probably beneficial”, and it’s based on simple logic plus the latest research.

    Too bad you’re trying to use outdated USDA information regarding B vitamins.

    It’s part science, pcj – and part insurance.

    I already have my own minimum and maximums, all I said is for you to pick your own.

    Amway hasn’t been giving out bad information, but they have allowed the LCK’s to give it out for decades now, and that is being fixed.

    Your inability to answer a few simple questions early on, and until the present time, serves as notice to anyone new, and allows them to quickly surmise that you are full of crap.

  49. November 11, 2008 10:04 am

    Even better, I think I’ll close out comments on this post since it’s just going around in circles between Tex and PCJ.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: