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Spending More Than You Should

December 18, 2008

Much has been argued and debated about prices in Amway/Quixtar. Critics say that the products are overpriced whereas IBOs contend that the prices are fair considering the value. There’s just one problem with the IBOs argument, however: Every product has the bonus structure factored into the price. So, if you’re stuck at the bottom, you’re paying at least a 3-31% premium on everything you purchase.

So, what if the corporation lowered prices? They would have to make up for the lost profits by selling more products. Unfortunately, the majority of IBOs aren’t exactly retailing like gangbusters these days. I wonder what is the true purpose of Amway’s recent Now You Know (What?) marketing campaign. Could it be one day the corporation will start selling direct to consumers? I can certainly envision marketing like, “Amway. Same Great Products. New Lower Prices.”

I’ve been reading about these new performance bonuses for next year. There’s a 2-year Founder’s Diamond bonus of $500,000 that was recently announced. That’s a nice chunk of change, but how many IBOs are really going to achieve this? I’m suspecting that these super-sized bonuses are really geared towards keeping the kingpins happy and affiliated with Amway. With the TEAM debacle last year, the corporation doesn’t want other IBOs moving over to another MLM, so they have to provide incentive to stay in and work harder. I’m more interested in hearing about the incentives for people who are at the bottom. IBOs – tell us about those incentives!

49 Comments leave one →
  1. Joecool permalink
    December 18, 2008 4:48 pm

    The incentives are nice, but IBOs should remember that only a fraction of 1% ever reach diamond. The number of diamonds reaching the founder’s level is lower, and achieving that kind of business for two consecutive years will probably make it a fraction of a fraction of one percent who attain that level.

    Also, that bonus will be paid out of that 31% spread that IBOs overpay in order for Amway to issue the bonuses in the first place.

  2. December 19, 2008 5:57 am

    I don’t understand the “problem” with the markup and how it doesn’t apply to any other business?

    Any person buying one or two tubes of toothpaste from anywhere is paying more per unit than someone who buys hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of toothpaste.

    A platinum gets better pricing because they’re buying >$21,000 worth of goods a month. The “bonus structure” is simply a volume discounting scale, much like in any other product distribution system.

  3. December 19, 2008 9:03 am

    IBOFB – It’s more of an excessive markup issue for me. Look at the price of Tolsom facial care products; didn’t the prices go down dramatically in recent months? What do you think prompted this reduction in price?

    You have the 31% bonus markup, the 0-X% retail markup that IBOs should be adding for their retail customers, the 30% Jay Factor for coreline products and who knows what other markups there might be in each product.

    IMO, Amway would do better by selling more products at more affordable prices.

  4. Joecool permalink
    December 19, 2008 10:22 am

    Let me correct IBOFB. A platinum does not “buy” $21000 worth of good a month. IBOs order their own good from teh corporation and the platinum simply gets credit for their volume. In the odl call in and pick days your post may have been true. Not anymore. And even in the call in days, the platinum ordered stuff based on what the downline ordered. It’s not like a platinum ordered and risked being stuck with inventory.

  5. Rykel from Singapore permalink
    December 19, 2008 10:34 am

    at, do you suggest that, in the spirit of “selling more products at lower prices”, that Amway do away with the Performance Bonus?

    Thanks, Rykel

  6. December 19, 2008 2:10 pm

    Amthrax, Sergo Zyman, former CMO of Coca-Cola, puts it this way – it’s the “job” of a company to sell more products, to more people, at higher prices. Whether Amway would do better with lower prices increasing turnover is a matter for discussion but your post claims that the bonus structure being factored in to the price is a problem with the argument that products are “good value”.

    The bonus structure being factored in is no different to volume discounting being factored in to any other distribution system. It has zero effect on any discussion on whether something is “good value” or not. Judgements about value are inherently subjective.

    Tolsom Shave Gel for example hasn’t been dropped in price in my market and is an expensive product, but I still consider it good value. Why? Because even at retail price it’s cheaper than other brands that offer the same type of benefits. Is it cheaper than normal shaving cream? Nope, but I’m not judging it’s value, or comparing it to other products, based on it’s worth as just a shaving cream, I’m judging it as a skin care product. My skin is noticeably healthier when I use it and that’s important to me. If prices were dropped it would become better value for me as a consumer.

    It’s value as a product to market is another issue. Would I sell significantly more Tolsom shave gel (either to other IBOs or clients) if it was cheaper? Honestly I don’t think so. In my market at least I doubt they’d ever be able to get it priced competitively to cheaper shaving foams (and in fact Amway has a cheaper shaving foam here as well) but it is priced competitively to other high end shave gels. Same situation applies in the US when I’ve done comparisons.

    So it can never be marketed on “price” if comparing to shaving foams, it always has to be marketed on its features and benefits, and when compared with the competition there, it already wins on price.

    In any case, the main point is the fact that Amway offers volume discounting (and that’s all the rebate system really is) has no influence on an argument about whether a product is priced appropriately or not.

  7. December 19, 2008 4:38 pm

    We should talk i like your style although misinformed a bit but please lets blog i have a site http://www.the realpyramidscheme.blogspot.com
    come on over read a bit tell me what you think and i will continue to read here and see what i find

  8. December 19, 2008 4:45 pm

    what i see here is alot of arguing about the small issues here. IBO’s did not join for the cool name, or the supposed cult like atmosphere, and really did not join for a bunch of tools and seminars, I Joined to make money and everytime i sell a product i make money and you know what i have very happy customers but even that too is not why i Joined. IBO’s came in to this business to make money. as strange as that sounds you don’t get into business and throw as much as you can to your expense colum as obviously is what happend in many cases i see here on the net. you duplicate and you only increase your expense when your profits can handle it. oh and by the way most of your business tools and seminars are all tax write offs i do it every year. you got to know what you are doing

  9. December 20, 2008 8:25 am

    Levi – Thank you for joining the conversation. I hope that for as long as you are in the business that making money by selling product is your primary activity. If you find that you are spending more time and money purchasing tools and attending seminars, please reevaluate your comment here.

  10. December 20, 2008 8:37 am

    IBOFB – If the Jay factor is to be believed, Amway Global can certainly handle shaving our a few of their own profit percentage points and lower the cost of their coreline products so as to stimulate sales (both retail and internal).

    Jay factor aside, what is the value in paying 31% more if you have no intention of building the business? This is the case for everyone who is below the 100PV level and for those who are just interested in the products.

    You’re absolutely right on one point, that you have to market Amway products on features and benefits; that’s because you can’t market them based on price! Because the vast majority of Amway’s coreline products are grossly overpriced, IBOs have to argue based on subjective arguments about value, features, and benefits.

  11. December 20, 2008 1:12 pm

    By that logic, no body should by ANY products from ANYONE unless they’re getting the same price offered to those with the highest volume rebates.

    Virtually every product you buy today you are paying some kind of markup on it. Does that stop you buying it? Should that stop you buying it?

    Of course not.

    The products should be bought for their inherent worth to you. Your apaprently thinking the same way some misguided Amway leaders do – that you buy stuff because it’s available from Amway and whether it’s any good or good value to you or not is irrelevant. That kind of twisted “loyalty” can only end in tears and quite obviously in many cases has.

    Now, you say “the vast majority of coreline products are grossly overpriced” yet I don’t see that at all. The core products are Nutrilite and Artistry. Artistry products are cheaper than the competitors – so how are they “overpriced”? Nutrilite really has no competitors but in general Nutrilite is cheaper than the next best on most lines. I suspect that already covers a majority of coreline SKUs, but if you look at Homecare, thanks to its concentration the LOC range is nearly always cheaper than the competitors. The SA8 range is again in a class of it’s own with no real competitors, but even then is only marginally more expensive than the competitors, particularly for IBOs.

    Your statement that “the vast majority of Amway’s coreline products are grossly overpriced” simply doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

    As for you last statement – well duh – so does every other business in the world that’s not trying to aim for the market segement that simply wants the cheapest.

  12. December 20, 2008 1:35 pm

    IBOFB – My argument is quite simple.

    Amway coreline products could use a price reduction.

  13. mike permalink
    December 20, 2008 2:45 pm

    I agree with IBOfightsback, When person buys a product for any price and is pleased with the product and the seller is pleased at their profit, that is a good transaction.

    If a person buys an Amway product(s) at full retail and then decided to become a IBO so they can get the product(s) at a less than retail cost, then Amtrax’s point is valid.

    IBOFB is defending the price points based on being an IBO, the question is would he pay full retail for the product.

    Due to the price of Amway’s products,it that is limits the market, therefore making it more of a challenge to sell product at a retail level.

    Walmart as an example, tells the customer if you find a like product sold at another store for less, they will beat that price.

    Walmart as an example will honor manufacture’s coupons.

    Walmart as an example will demand from the vendor a lower price.

  14. December 20, 2008 5:35 pm

    Mike,
    Actually no, for the main brands of Artistry and Nutrilite I’m not at all defending the pricing based on being an IBO. My comments refer to the suggested retail price.

    Amthrax,

    The question is whether dropping the prices would lead to enough of an increase in sales to offset the loss in profit (both for IBOs and the company). You clearly think it would. I’m sure they’re some products were this is indeed the case. I think however that a far more useful step would be getting IBOs educated about the products and understanding who the competitors are and who the target market is. It’s clear from internet posts that a large number of former IBOs, and I’d suggest the majority of online critics, have very very little knowledge in this area – something evidenced by the constant mantra that “the products are overpriced” when they are clearly price competitive with whom they’re designed to be competing with. The whole Team debacle offered many online examples.

    Mike, as an aside, I’m not sure if they still do, but Amway Australia has a competitive price guarantee similar to the one you mention for Walmart. IBOs (and former IBOS) trying to sell the products to folk who look at the price first still complain the prices are to high.

  15. December 20, 2008 6:08 pm

    btw, all of the above aside, it’s probably worth mentioning that Amway is shaving a few percentage points of core products next year (in 2 phases, January and April).

    Interestingly the IBO price is dropping significantly more (as much as 18.4%) than the retail price (price drops up to 6.4%), creating more IBO profit.

  16. December 20, 2008 8:39 pm

    IBO profit is a complete oxymoron.

    Products are not competitive.

    IBOFB can spin until the cows come home, but at the end of the day, very few IBO’s make a profit.

    That is reality.

    Say hi to the unicorns and leprechauns that live in your world for me IBOFB.

  17. Joecool permalink
    December 22, 2008 2:43 pm

    Prices in MLM in general have to be higher than a local retailer and for sure higher than a retail giant such as Walmart. Amway recruiters may pitch “we cut out the middleman” and we keep that bonus. But that is not true. In Amway, yuo replace the traditional middle man with layers of middlemen
    (Multi level). Thus the MLM company charges high prices and the excess profit is used to fund bonuses. Whereas Walmart squeezes the manufacturer for the lowest prices and passes on the savings to customers – with no middleman.

    Part 2 question and most important. Since Nutrilte makes their vitamins, why can’t they be sold significantly cheaper? Never mind the quality debate. Does nutrilite have significantly higher operating costs than other vitamin companies? I suspect the answer is no.

  18. Porkchopjim permalink
    December 22, 2008 2:50 pm

    IBOFB is right:

    Artistry, Nutrilite, LOC and SA8 do NOT have competition: they are good PV/BV producers for IBOs who need to replace their former cheaper, better performing products with self-purchased items in order to support their ‘business.’

    ‘Tide’ is not competing with SA8 in any IBO’s house.

    ‘Revlon’ isn’t competing with any ‘Artistry’ products in any IBO’s house.

    ‘Flintstones’ (or even the evil Costco Kirkland brand – manufactured at production standards Nutrilite hasn’t met at the grand cost of less than $20 per year) isn’t competing with ‘Nutrilite’ in any IBO’s house.

    It’s once that product tries to leave the house that true competition kicks in – and over 90% of Amway’s products never leave an IBO’s house.

    No competition whatsoever.

  19. December 23, 2008 9:41 pm

    Just this week, I sold, at full retail, to three different customers:

    A “competitor” to Tide–SA8 Laundry Detergent, both the 6.6 lb box and the 9.9 lb box
    A “competitor” to Revlon–Artistry Essentials Mineral MakeUp
    A “competitor” to Flinstones–Nutrilite’s Concentrated Fruits and Veggies

    Oh, and since LOC was mentioned, I’ll mention that I sold some of that too. Yeah, trying to get my customer to pay a whopping $8.65 for 34 GALLONS of cleaner sure was tough. 😉

    And these are all repeat, happy, satisfied customers.

    If retailing isn’t happening, it’s ’cause people aren’t trying, not because the products are not retailable.

  20. December 23, 2008 9:45 pm

    Joecool,

    According to Porkchopjim, the Platinum IS buying $21,000 of product. Remember? I’m the fool who didn’t “get it”. That all product flows through my business, even for a nanosecond?

    So…does that mean that if a guy sells copiers for Xerox, and gets retail markeup money, plus an additional volume bonus, that he too is first buying all these copiers from Xerox and then selling them, porkchopjim?

  21. December 23, 2008 9:51 pm

    Joecool,

    Regarding Nutrilite’s overhead and that they can sell the products for less, what does that have anything to do with anything?

    I’m sure HP can sell their ink in their printer ink cartridges for less than $8,000 a gallon, and still make a nice profit.

    HP charges $8K a gallon because they can, because people are willing to pay that amount.

    Even with knock-off cartridges, at a fraction of the price, people still go for HP. There’s still a market for their ink.

  22. December 24, 2008 12:16 am

    Way to sell Bridgett!

    Are those 3 or 4 sales going to produce a lifestyle purported by the “leaders” in the Amway business?

    Right-o then.

    That’s just excellent, you are doing marvelously!

    To think, that’s a platinum!

    Sounds like you’re bragging! I made $300.00 selling a couple highly sought after items on Ebay in the past 2 weeks. I didn’t even have to go to a meeting or listen to childish, amateurish motivation to do it! Nor did I have restrictive rules for doing it, and I never once had to go to a mall to look for prospects.

    Wow, wow, and wow.

  23. Porkchopjim permalink
    December 24, 2008 8:43 am

    Bridgette,

    3 whole customers? Wow! Only 22 more and you’d make the original Amway standard back when they actually focused on selling products to people who weren’t distributors.

    While ‘Concentrated Fruits and Veggies’ I’m sure is a great product – it had better be for over $1 a dose – it’s not quite the ‘Flintstone’ equivalent, now is it? Bonus – it’s ‘phytonutrients’, which is anyone’s guess as to how much you need or if you even need it. Not a single vitamin or mineral recognized as being necessary in any amount. Over forty bucks a month you’re charging a customer for that. Who was it that complained people were spending obscene amounts of money on dubious health supplements? Oh – right – that was me.

    Apt and timely post for this topic – Spending more than you should. Nutrilite’s overhead has everything to do with what we’re talking about. The ‘leading brand’ can claim that spot because of the absurd prices charged – not the number of pills sold, nor the number of customers. When the vast bulk of your product is being consumed to generate PV/BV to prop individual businesses up – you get to charge whatever you want. As with your HP example – IBOs are willing to pay that amount of money in order to buy PV/BV.

    Now, according to the FTC vs. Amway case, IBOs (nee distributors) do buy and sell everything that they get PV/BV credit for, including that which comes from and through downline…and Amway has never disputed that. I don’t know how Mr. Xerox is structured. Perhaps Mr. Xerox works off a commission model and doesn’t ‘own’ the copiers – even though his payment structure mimics as if he did.

  24. December 24, 2008 8:50 am

    rockette,

    Bridgett never claimed to have the LCK tool scam lifestyle from selling a few products. She was addressing the FACT retailing is not impossible, as many others stated, most recently in the posts above her response. Pull your thumb out of your mouth and find another place to stick it.

    Bridgett also never claimed Amway was the only way to sell and make a profit.

    How many people that you’ve shown eBay to have sold things,, made a profit, and gave you part of the profit? That’s how Amway works. No wonder you don’t have any motivational meetings, recordings, rules, or prospecting, it’s a whole different deal. I’ll bet you didn’t have to buy a football helmet, pads, uniform, or spiked shoes either, because eBay isn’t a football game.

  25. December 24, 2008 8:52 am

    rocket,

    Once again, when I point out the truth which is contradictory to what you say, you insult me and bring in garbage that has zero to do with the point of the post–the myth that the products are overpriced and therefore unretailable.

    Shocking.

    HaHaHa.

    Again:

    If retailing isn’t happening, it’s ’cause people aren’t trying, not because the products are not retailable.

    Merry Christmas everyone! 🙂

  26. December 24, 2008 9:05 am

    Bridgett – Do you feel you would be able to retail more product if they were sold at a lower cost (to both you and the retail customer)? I understand that to make the same amount of retail profit, you would need to make more. Would lower prices significantly help you in selling to more people?

  27. December 24, 2008 9:45 am

    My points were:

    a) Big deal. You’re supposed to be a business! You’re supposed to move products or services!

    b) I likely made more than you with much less effort in my non-business (but profitable) endeavors.

    c) You’re a platinum level IBO, which very few people make it to, and that’s your retail volume for a week? Makes you wonder how well the common everyday IBO does. You are also quite motivated and believe in what you are doing, and I respect that. BUT if you are one of the best, it’s pretty obvious that very few can even do what you’ve done.

    Tex

    The business is usually (always in my experience, recent and past) with palm trees, beaches multimillion dollar homes, etc. It still exists.

    Do you think people would join based on what Bridgett has (honestly) pointed out? Not friggin likely.

    Second, you like the motivation, as long as you’re holding the conference call holding a tape player up to the phone for everyone to hear. You’re a control freak with no group and no success in Amway.

    I don’t know why you always like to bring up football. Is that something you actually did well in? It’s over Al Bundy. Time to be successful at something.

    So it’s pretty clear I’m wasting my time trying to have a rational conversation with you.

    But Merry Christmas to you and yours just the same!

  28. December 24, 2008 9:59 am

    PS

    The prices are too high. Even wholesale prices cost more than most brick & mortar stores, and if you don’t want to spend a certain amount ($75.00?) then you have to also pay for shipping.

    Maybe that’s why they charge so much! So people don’t have to pay for shipping!

    Well, that explains EVERYTHING!

    Seriously, Amway needs to re-jig their pricing system. People investigate prices more than ever now, and if anyone wants to seriously build a retail business in Amway, they need to lower their prices so the volume can be increased.

    Anyone who knows anything about retail knows that volume is the bible. Buy it low, stack it high, and sell it for as much as you can get.

    Nothing much about motivational meetings from the successful retailer camps, Tex.

  29. Joecool permalink
    December 24, 2008 10:47 am

    Bridgett makes it sound as if her three customers were some kind of major accomplishment. I question the validity of her claim that she is at 7500 PV. And even if that were true, then that means her volume is primarily running through downline.

    And, Bridgett says she is not fully committed to the WWDB system, yet she knows all the ins and out of her diamond’s lifestyles including knowing who rents and who owns homes.

    From my experience and by all indications today, someone not on the system, even those who might be moving volume, are no edified by the system leaders. Anyone care to venture a guess as to why?

    Also Bridgett, I understand what was meant by running volume through your business. But it is not the same as the call in/pick up days where the platinums actually bought from the corporation and distributed to their downline. It’s much different now, and why I believe the compensation plan should be turned upside down where the 100 PV IBO gets 22% for moving the volume and upline receiving 3% for what (little) support they provide to downline.

    Bottom line folks, the public doesn’t care about concentration or whether you grow organice weeds to make your vitamins. Consumers promarily look at the prices and are affected by effective advertising. Why do you think Walmart is wildy successful?

  30. December 24, 2008 11:51 am

    #1 Who said I was a Platinum? Who said I was at 7,500 PV?

    #2 I mentioned three customers, and four products because I was riffing off of PCJ’s post. Why do you assume that’s all I have? Again, assumptions, assumptions. Just looking to pick a fight, right?

    #3 The Amway business model is not just direct-selling. It’s also an MLM. I too have sold on ebay. Made good cash doing it, even with the high transaction fees of eBay and PayPal and the hassle of boxing and shipping myself. But it’s a different business model from the Amway business model:

    a)consumable, repeat products,
    b)an MLM component,

    so your comparison is not that great, is it?

    #4 I know the “ins” and “outs” of my upline Diamonds as well as “crossline” Diamonds, because they do talk to me regardless of how much I do (and do not) participate in the LOA. Sorry you experience was different. Maybe it has to do with who you are as a person, rather than one’s participation in this particular LOA?

    #5 Why keep talking about product pickup? Again, what does yesterday have to do with today?

    #6 The point about me mentioning product flow was to illustrate that I am viewed foolishly by the critics b/c of exactly the same view you hold about sales commissions rather than product flowing through one’s business. Yet I don’t see anyone calling you, joecool, on it. Double standard, yes?

    #7 With 400+ products,

    a) I do not need every single product to meet my personal standard of excellence in regards to price and quality in order to make money with the Amway business. That would be a bit egocentric, yes?

    b) No, I do not think just lowering all prices is the answer. And as it was pointed out earlier, there are price adjustments occurring on current products. Did you miss that point?

    c) And, let’s not forget new products that have come out in the last year are very competively priced at full retail. Let’s continue living in the past and not mention any of those, right?

    d) And, if a person’s sole criteria for purchasing a product is price, then they are not my kind of customer.

    I am not that kind of customer. I’ve been to the Dollar Store.

    I prefer happy people.I prefer great customer service. I prefer toothpaste not made in China. Different strokes for different folks, yes?

    #8 Given the retail markup, an new IBO does make the majority of profit on a product, particually with the new PV/BV/pricing structure in 2009.

    If an IBO chooses only to self-consume and teach others to do the same, then they are choosing to pass up a lot of cash, yes?

    #9 You are speaking for all 300+ million of those living in the United States (and the 33+ million in Canada)? You know what “the public” wants in a product and in a business opportunity? Wow, not an ounce of pride and self-righteousness there, huh?

    Glad to have given y’all comments to pounce on and tear a part and engage in and pass the time on Christmas Eve.

    Ready, set, go!!!!

    🙂

  31. Joecool permalink
    December 24, 2008 12:21 pm

    1. You have on several occasions refered or at least implied that you are at the 7500 PV level. I guess you are not. You are just as proficient as Tex and IBOFB I guess.

    2. You made such a big deal out of 3 customers. If you have more, good for you, that’s what a business does, sell to customers. Why do IBOs make it sound like a trip to Disneyland when they make a sale?

    4. Good, you know the ins and outs of your diamonds. Tell me why some WWDB diamonds didn’t pay their mortgages?

    5. Comprehension issues? Because as a direct on the call in days, the direct actually bought/ordered everything from Amway and distributed them as oppopsed to online ordering today. Thus today’s platinum does far less for downline than in my time. Is that hard to understand?

    7. (b) ridiculous, why wouldn’t lower prices be a good thing for business? Do most people drive around looking for the cheapest gas station or do they go where they can get “concentrated” gas or designer gas?

    (d) and that explains why you and many IBOs have so few customers. In fact some and possibly many IBOs have no customers except themselves.

    Bridgett said: If an IBO chooses only to self-consume and teach others to do the same, then they are choosing to pass up a lot of cash, yes?

    Joe says: No, they are then a customer and not an IBO. If I buy and resell products from Costco, I am a retailer. If I buy and use Costco products, I am a customer.

    P.S. Merry Christmas (not happy holidays) and a Happy New Year to all. (Supporters and critics alike)

  32. December 24, 2008 12:37 pm

    Not looking to pick a fight Bridgett. At Christmas? For Shame.

    I had read somewhere that you had hit platinum Sorry if it’s inaccurate.

    Lots of money to be made retailing, and yet less than 5% of products were retailed to an end customer.

    Makes you wonder if everyone not retailing is:

    a) Dumb

    b) Lazy

    c) Not thinking the products are that great of a deal, and not confident that they sell themselves like Bridgett insinuates.

    As to whether or not your products in the past year are priced competitively, that’s a pretty bold statement, given the fact that I have looked in a lot of IBO shops online and have noted very few products matching your description of “very competitively priced at full retail”. Rather sweeping statement, yes?

    Any retailer will tell you that a person’s criteria for purchasing a product is first of all, the need for it. Secondly is the value they get for what they pay. If there is no need, they don’t buy. If there is no value to be had, they don’t buy. Except in Amway, so they can get PV and tell people they are business owners, they buy.

    Less than 5% of products retailed to an end user gives more credence to my argument than yours.

    My toothpaste is Sensodyne. It works, it costs more than Colgate, Crest, etc. I have no idea where it was imported from and I don’t care if it was imported from China. Why would I? Baffling LOL.

    You seem to think that we are speaking here for all of the US and Canada? I don’t recall saying that. What were you saying about assumptions? Oh, right. I remember:

    “Again, assumptions, assumptions. Just looking to pick a fight, right?”

    That would be the same as any of the critics accusing you of speaking for every IBO….Like you’d let that slide.

    That’s good you prefer happy people and good customer service. That’s not to say it doesn’t exist outside of Amway. I think you’ll find very few ex-IBO’s felt that they were “Spoiled Silly” by Amway.

    In fact, any I’ve spoken to or conversed with online were pissed that the Corp. let that crap go on.

    IBO’s aren’t making money, and until this public relations nightmare began on the internet, Amway couldn’t have cared less.

    THAT is an assumption, but a conclusion I came to based on a global interpretation of the events as I’ve seen them unfold in the past 10 years.

    Merry Christmas Bridgett. I hope you and your family have a happy and healthy holiday, and the very best to you and yours in 2009.

    Now I’m off to the inlaws.

  33. December 24, 2008 12:38 pm

    “You are just as proficient as Tex and IBOFB I guess.”

    Are you implying that all IBOs below the Platinum level are unprofitable and worthless and have no credibility?

    Interesting for someone supposedly being a champion of the “little guy”.

    Merry Jesusmas. 🙂

  34. ssjnt permalink
    December 29, 2008 4:24 pm

    It is interesting to see this post about the new Diamond Incentive program and the possibility of making $500k. What puzzles me is why you did not make mention of the other incentives that they also announced that WILL HELP NEW IBO’s. The new Fast Track program makes it realistic for a new IBO to make as much as $300.00 their 1st month in business. This bonus focuses on a balanced business that includes a little retailing and is in fact outside the “plan” money. I noticed also that you did not mention the fact that Amway is going to lower their prices to allow for an even more competetive situation for IBO’s. Why is there no mention of all of the advertising money they are spending to help NEW IBO’s make money from retailing some product. Man you guys are all the same. You slant the information to fit your agenda. The fact of the matter is the business is changing. It has always been changing to fit the times. Your criticism’s are at least a year behind. You would think in the age of the internet you could keep up. It must be harder for you to keep up since you haven’t been in the business for 9 years or however long it has been for you now. I bet this post doesn’t even make it in the discussion.

  35. December 29, 2008 9:54 pm

    ssjnt – Thank you for the information and participating in this forum. Is there a website that clearly details all of the new bonuses and incentives for IBOs? I haven’t seen it, so if you can post a link, that would be great.

    I have been on record as saying retailing is very important for IBOs. I’ve also stated that it’s important for the corporation to lower prices on coreline products so that they can be retailed more effectively.

  36. December 30, 2008 12:33 am

    ssjnt – they haven’t mentioned that stuff because they don’t know about it. Many Amway critics (JoeCool being the best example) operate on the assumption that if they don’t know about something, then it’s not because they’re ignorant, it’s because it doesn’t exist and everything is just the way it was a decade or more ago when they were involved.

    Amthrax, I’ll do a post on the new bonuses and pricing sometime after NYE. There’s also been extensive discussion about it on Amway Talk

  37. December 30, 2008 10:41 am

    Why would the corporation not release this type of information where everyone, critics and IBO’s alike read it?

    Why would you not want to be, dare I say it, transparent?

    Oh, wait. Amway IS transparent. Just ask them.

    Good Lord.

  38. Joecool permalink
    December 30, 2008 12:36 pm

    IBOfightback is delusional. If there was a fire in a hotel and 99% of the guests perished in the fire, IBOfightback would defend the hotel by saying the guests did not read and comprehend every detail of the fire escape plan before they went on vacation so it’s the guest’s own fault that they perished. Even if “most” of the fire escapes and fire extinguishers didn’t work, IBOfightback would find 1 or 2 that did work and justify the damage by saying that “some” fire extinguishers and escapes were available and that the guests just failed to find and use them properly.

  39. Joecool permalink
    December 30, 2008 3:20 pm

    http://hockdock.blogspot.com/2008/12/amway-to-hike-product-prices-by-3-5-in.html

    Tuesday, December 16, 2008
    Amway to hike product prices by 3-5% in 2009

  40. December 30, 2008 10:17 pm

    rocket said, Why would the corporation not release this type of information where everyone, critics and IBO’s alike read it?

    Um, ’cause it’s none of your business?

    IBOs in North America have complete access to all the information on the Quixtar.com website, passcode protected.

  41. Joecool permalink
    December 31, 2008 2:02 pm

    IBO: Come join the greatest business in the world where you can retire at age 29 and walk the beaches of the world collecting lifelong residual income.

    Prospect: Can I really achieve that?

    IBO: Yes, I will help you and I’m doing fan-tastic!

    Prospect: Can I ask how much you are making in Amway now:

    IBO: It’s none of your business

  42. December 31, 2008 2:28 pm

    None of my business? Then why the sweeping changes that you allege are happening Bridgett? Because nobody was saying anything bad about Amway?

    Amway is always lurking at critic sites, mine included.

    If you don’t think they are trying to appease the critics who have gotten to the masses better than the big Amway machine, then you are completely unzipped.

    Ahem….transparency? Amway says that they must be 100% transparent in everything they do.

    None of my business? I think it is. Just like the environment is my business. So is the middle east, Canadian and US foreign policy, Enron, insider trading, and a billion other things that I am either directly or indirectly affected by.

    Nice attitude. Someone show this woman the plan!

  43. December 31, 2008 4:23 pm

    rocket,

    You’re right. Amway is making all the changes they are making to “appease” some cowardly anonymous Canadian blogger who quit the business over a decade ago.

    I don’t know why I continue to be shocked at your over-flated ego.

    Wow, wow, and wow again.

    Are you not gettin’ enough lovin’ at home? There’s a book called “For Women Only” by Shaunti Feldhahn. Chapter five may be of help.

    Bridgett out.

  44. December 31, 2008 4:33 pm

    And JoeCool proves again how clueless he is about the Amway business. You can be at 25% and not 7500PV. Come back and chat when you’ve read the manual.

    But of course, you don’t understand it, so that must mean the other person is a liar, right JoeCool?

    Nope – it just makes you an idiot.

  45. Joecool permalink
    December 31, 2008 4:34 pm

    Where have you been Bridgett? Head in the sand?

    The Amway supporters were all pounding their chests about the wave of change coming. The critics wil be silenced. Accreditation.

    Well, even your IBOfightback admits the critics message is getting out there and when Amway itself apparently does not enforce their own accreditation, it gives the appearance of a cosmetic change. Makes things look good to the public but deepdown inside, nothing has changed.

    You keep saying how things are changing but never say what changes are for the good. You keep saying the critcs are wrong but can’t or won’t say what critics are wrong about. You keep saying many things without substance.

    You know what we call people who are arrogant and condescending and like to stir up trouble in an established internet community? We call them forum trolls. I believe you to be one. Other than causing a ruckus, you have contributed nothing of substance to the dicussion. The fact that you admit to using google alerts to find posts about Amway so you can drop your condescending comments also indicates that you are a troll.

    It takes two to have communication and when you are around, it doesn’t happen.

  46. Joecool permalink
    December 31, 2008 4:38 pm

    IBOFB – I know the answer. But why is Bridgett reluctant to answer it? You know why – because if she answered it, there would be a way to verify if she’s truthful or not.

    That’s why she or you, won’t answer the question.

    Isn’t that right?

  47. December 31, 2008 7:21 pm

    Nice use of words Bridgett, and I find myself less and less surprised by your consistent variations of the facts.

    Never said *I* forced Amway changes.

    I inferred many people were involved.

    Got company, I’ll be back. Happy New Year.

  48. January 1, 2009 4:02 pm

    OK, now to address Bridgett’s comments.

    First of all, it’s over -INFLATED ego. Flated isn’t a word. I know what you meant, but it’s simply another barb to throw your way since we’re taking personal shots at one another.

    As far as my sex life, it’s fantastic! I don’t need to read books about how to please women sweetheart, I could write them.

    I’m sure you find the answers to everything in books, and have no trouble recommending to people what you think they are in need of.

    You still have yet to point out how you know I’m wrong.

    For someone who is as smart as you think you are, you’re pretty naive about why the Amway corporation decided to change. You don’t think Ashley Wilkes, Sidney Schwartz, John Hoagland, Eric Janssen and the like had anything to do with it? C’mon, I don’t even think you’re that stupid.

    I really do wish you the best Bridgett.

    Make sure to get your husband to read that chapter. It might settle you down a bit, obviously you’re in dire need of something.

  49. Joecool permalink
    July 30, 2010 12:41 pm

    Not to mention Bridgett did not know that rebates from personal consumption is not taxable. LOL 🙂

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