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What Is He Doing To Earn $3,246,026 A Year?

March 23, 2009

I looked up the Mid-Year 2008 MonaVie Income Disclosure Statement, and I saw how much money a Presidential Black Diamond like the Supreme TEAM Leader Orrin Woodward was making last year from the great purple juice company.


What is Orrin Woodward really doing to earn himself $3,246,026/year from the MonaVie opportunity? Let’s see:

Did I miss anything?

What percentage of your $40/bottle of juice concentrate is going to fund his (or your upline Black Diamond) lifestyle? One morning shot of MonaVie? Two shots? A week’s worth of shots? Think about it, a percentage of every dollar you spend on MonaVie — and you’re spending $40/week, $120/month — is going straight into this man’s bank account.

Though Woodward would like you to believe that Team is close to having a million members, he’s really only around 10,000-15,000 strong. If each Team member downline from Orrin drank four bottles of MonaVie a month for a year, and if Orrin makes $5/bottle in commission, given 13,525 members, he would earn $3,246,000 in a year.

Don’t forget that his annual MonaVie payout doesn’t take into account the money he’s raking in from his TEAM tools business, which presumably according to Orrin, is at most $1,623,013. He’s been on record as saying he can only make 50% of his MonaVie income off of tools (is that written down somewhere in some legally binding contract?). Any excess money not handed out to the executive team of Team… in mean, high pin-level Team members… will probably get “donated” to his tax-shelter… excuse me… charity All Grace Outreach. Remember, it’s tax deductible!

In this economic downturn, the American public is taking a harder look at executive compensation. Shouldn’t distributors in MonaVie be doing the same for their upline kingpins and leaders? I’d like to hear some answers to this question from some MonaVie/TEAM distributors.

  • What does he do to earn that much money?
  • Does he deserve or is entitled to that money?

Maybe the first question should be rephrased to, “What did he do to earn that much money?” Gosh-darnit… he went fricking Black Diamond in three months! Listen to da man himself on his journey to Black Diamond:

Going Black Diamond in MonaVie takes dedication, direction, and dreams.

He forgot to mention a nice deal with Dallin “Larceny” Larsen to transfer his entire Amway/Quixtar line of sponsorship over to MonaVie.

In this depressed economy, Orrin sees opportunity for you and me:

Business owners solve the customer’s problems. The more problems in the economy just means there is more opportunity for the business owner. Instead of being depressed in a down economy, the entrepreneur ought to Identify customer problems, Develop a plan to solve the problems, Share that plan, Implement/Follow Through with the plan, and Celebrate successes.

You see, you just have to work hard and be prepared when the opportunity arises. If you do that — and buy a case of MonaVie a month an Team’s weekly tape, book, and function ticket — success (for Orrin) must happen.

All kidding aside, I do have one question to ask of Orrin and his Team followers:

In this depressed economy, what exactly is the problem that a $40/bottle of juice is solving?!?

It’s certainly not solving your arthritis, cancer, back pain, or whatever. It’s not some magic elixir which will cure all of your ailments. What MonaVie is is just juice concentrate with a few powdered acai berries thrown in for good measure.

You know, there is something that I do agree with Orrin on and that there are opportunities even in this sour economy. MonaVie, however, is not one of them. In fact, I’d say MonaVie and similar products are part of the problem. People are sinking money in products are overhyped, overrated and ridiculously expensive. You know why Orrin is always smiling and making you feel great on tape and at functions? Because he’s looking at his gravy train, his pot of gold, his ticket to a lifestyle of the rich and famous… he’s looking his customers… you.

21 Comments leave one →
  1. Anynomous permalink
    March 24, 2009 4:57 pm

    Do you know anything about Randy Haugen splitting from Orrin Woodward and TEAM?

  2. March 24, 2009 7:11 pm

    I have not heard anything of the sort. What information do you have to share?

  3. March 25, 2009 11:47 am

    Howdy and yet another interesting and humorously worded post from you! I only hope all writers would be as fun to read as you, rather than some of those who refuse to give others the benefit of the doubt (eg. claiming that I was lying when I said I was busy travelling), and think that all of us leaders have all the interest in the world to engage in debates with them. (we are NOT.) *smile*

    Frankly, you have asked many questions in your message, and in most respects, perhaps Orrin is the best man to answer them, since you are asking HIM those queries.

    Additionally, some books and history reading would help clarify some of the nagging thoughts, such as “how” Orrin makes $3million a year – namely, the MonaVie Compensation Plan booklet, the MonaVie Income Disclosure Statement and how Orrin started 14 years ago with a decision to build an Amway business.

    Further details can also be found in the books, The Team Builder’s Textbook, Commerce Through Community, The Science of the Acai DVD, and the How To Get Started With MonaVie CD Pack. Collect Them All. 🙂

    To set the record straight, Orrin himself, in an interview with Art Jonak, said that he did NOT take four months to reach Presidential Black Diamond – it took him FOURTEEN YEARS to reach Presidential Black Diamond. Thank goodness he believed in starting, learnt how to and built a solid AMWAY Team.

    Like you mentioned, Orrin does rightfully earn $3million+ from the juice consumption of indeed 10,000+ distributors and he has never failed to let everyone know that the Team is his group of customers. As it is written in the Team website, “A team is a group of CUSTOMERS.” AND that YOUR downline team is YOUR group of customers too.

    Orrin seeks to serve his customers very well – making everyone feel great about themselves (validation), teaching the team the principles of financial management/healthy marriage relationship/assurance of faith in Jesus Christ etc. At this stage, a man can choose to judge Orrin as less than honorable, or a fabulous and holistic leader.

    Orrin’s positive influence on others’ lives is enormous, and unless you know the man personally, it is difficult for you to even fathom the amount of broken relationships/desperate lives he has directly/indirectly saved, not to mention the number of humans whose health have become better thanks to Orrin making public the existence of the acai berry juice.

    And I personally know retrenched citizens of Singapore who went into the MonaVie business with Orrin, and, learning the ropes of retailing, now makes a Good living moving 12 cases of juice PER WEEK to Retail Customers, who call them up for the juice via word of mouth referrals. These people LOVE Orrin Woodward, for your information. He has made a difference in their finances!

    Does Orrin have a sweet deal with Darlin Larsen to “move” over his Amway downline?

    First of all, there is ZERO evidence that Orrin had any deals. Secondly, EVEN if Orrin had a deal, does he not deserve a special offer, since he took more than a DECADE to build up the Team? Just like a CEO getting a BIG deal for switching over to a different company, Orrin is only enjoying the fruits of his labour. (again, Orrin has NO deal, but we are just assuming for the sake of discussion)

    So, to answer your questions once again in summary –

    1. What is Orrin doing or has done in order to make more than US$3,000,000 last year, both from MonaVie product sales and Team tool sales?
    2. Should Team leaders not be scrutinising Orrin more closely to see if his income is justified?
    3. Did Orrin receive a deal from Darlin Larsen to move his Amway line of sponsorship over to MonaVie?
    4. s the MonaVie Juice worth drinking, since it is presumably not doing anything curative in nature?

    Here are my answers for your sincere consideration –

    1. Yes, Orrin is earning an OVERRIDE of bonuses from the MonaVie 8-type compensation plan AND profit-sharing from his share of the Team profits;
    2. Yes, indeed, tens, if not hundreds and thousands of Team leaders, have investigated Orrin’s claims/activities and found his integrity satisfactory;
    3. Yes, NO deal from Darlin. If there was, Amway would have found the proof; and
    4. Yes, drinking 19 fruit juices a day in and of itself is worth every penny. We are not talking about apples and oranges, but rather, Acai, Aronia, Camu Camu and other expensive, precious and exotic fruits.

    * The Hong Kongers have told us Singaporeans that MonaVie would cost MORE THAN US$40 per bottle of we bought the same blend from the juice stalls.

    Last but not least, to answer your moral question in a nutshell, “Does Orrin deserve or is he entitled to so much income?”

    I humbly submit that my answer is a resounding

    YES, YES and YES!!!

    God Bless, Rykel from Singapore

  4. March 25, 2009 12:38 pm


    My main goal in writing about Orrin on my web site is to implore Team members not to consider Orrin as some type of demi-god, which — from where I’m sitting — your post painted so well. Invariably, you will be disappointed when he fails you. I’ve seen this first-hand with the upline “leaders” and kingpins in my former-organization, and I continue to see it happen today with those in crossline organizations in Amway/Quixtar (i.e. Greg Duncan).

  5. March 25, 2009 12:41 pm

    Rykel is a case study in what critics have been speaking about.

  6. March 25, 2009 12:52 pm

    Hi Amthrax,

    Thanks first of all for reposting my comment correctly. I owe you one for that.

    Next, thanks for being so responsive and sincere. I don’t know how to put it in words, but I just know that in your last comment above this, you were speaking with all your heart and you showed the true gentlemanly side of yourself – that you are NOT really against Orrin Woodward per se, but simply wanted people to be careful in elevating any human to near-God status.

    I would like to say that, like everyone else, Orrin has of course failed people with bad decisions in the past (he is human, after all) and I am sure he would make mistakes in the future too.

    When he did and does make mistakes, then it would be appropriate to highlight them, perhaps in private with him. Orrin is a man who does courageously accept correction and change, and I am sure he appreciates true friends like us who CARES for him, not just talk about him on the internet.

    My reason in posting the Good Side of Orrin is to ask that all of us, myself included, “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” That is, if there are great things Orrin has done, please acknowledge it generously. If there are past mistakes he has made, kindly forgive him and move on.

    Orrin is great, because he strives to be. And God does bless him. 😉

    Thanks, Rykel from Singapore

  7. Joecool permalink
    March 25, 2009 12:56 pm

    Didn’t Orrin at one time swear that Amway/Quixtar was the way, the only way?

  8. Joecool permalink
    March 25, 2009 12:58 pm

    Rykel, food for thought. A conman mankes you feel good about yourself. A conman makes you feel good about giving him your money too.

  9. March 25, 2009 1:23 pm


    A man of integrity expects himself to be believed, and he lets time prove him right.

    p/s. If you are sincere, please tell – what did Orrin con you of? (or me?) Do you even know Orrin personally?

  10. Joecool permalink
    March 25, 2009 1:47 pm

    “A man of integrity expects himself to be believed, and he lets time prove him right.”

    Rykel, this is all fine and good, but in the case of the Amway business, you have no recourse if your upline/man of ingetrity proves to be a swindler. It is why you have stories of massive debt and bankruptcy among IBOs, and even WWDB leaders!

    ” p/s. If you are sincere, please tell – what did Orrin con you of? (or me?) Do you even know Orrin personally?”

    Rykel, I don’t know Orrin and he has not conned me. However, I never said he conned me did I?

    By what standard of measure do you rate Orrin? You say he is “great”. Do you know what the Bible says about men of wealth?

  11. March 25, 2009 2:21 pm


    Thanks for a prompt response.

    You are awesome because I see you posting always in Amway forums, and while I do disagree with some of your words, I have likewise found many things you said to be valuable.


    I also do sympathise with the many, many whose experience with Amway/Systems were less than desirable, and whose lives/finances have been wrecked. In NO way do I wish to downplay nor belittle what they went through, and I only wish I could have helped them somehow.

    Moving forward, I asked if Orrin has conned you, because without explanation, you implied that Orrin is a conman, by asking how does it feel to have a conman make me feel good.

    If that “conman” was not inherently Orrin, kindly clarify who it was? (it is alright if you choose NOT to answer this question, as it is NOT my intention to corner anyone. I feel that it is unfair to imply that Orrin is a conman before proving so, that’s all…)

    I am perfectly OK if evidence has been given that Orrin did indeed conned others, and one proceeds to say so respectively. But, for fairness’ sake, no one should label Orrin before facts have been presented on the table.

    As for what makes Orrin great?

    Let me just share a couple of ways in which Orrin has demonstrated greatness in leadership, but there are things you will appreciate further about Orrin’s character, only when you know him up close and personal, beyond the hype/press and comments.

    Did you know that Orrin could have just taken the lions’ share of the tool profits without sharing them with others? (rightfully so, since he owns the tool company)

    BUT he went ahead and created a Field Profit Only, Profit-Sharing System. Now, MANY can participate in the profits – and thanks to MonaVie, can openly say so.

    Did you know that Orrin validates his wife Laurie Woodward in front of hundreds of thousands as well as in a group of just one or two persons?

    This may not sound significant and indeed, some may claim that it is his showmanship, but suffice it to say that his very act of speaking out his love for his wife openly has restored countless marriages that were on the verge of breaking.

    Did you know that Orrin could have just instructed his Asian teams to watch DVDs and learn from tools, but yet every 2 weeks at 8.30am early in the morning – for at least SIX MONTHS, he made it a point to WAKE UP and skype with the members and share his heart out with them? EVEN when there were as few as 4 persons only in the audience?

    Did you know that Orrin could have chosen not to engage Amway in a war (whoever is right or wrong is not the main issue here) in order to keep his EDC income, but he did stand up for what he believes in?

    I may carry on if time permits, but it is 5.20AM here in Singapore, and I have continually posted quite a bit of comments in this thread already… hence my eyes are now feeling tired!

    I do want to publicly say that I am GRATEFUL to amthrax for allowing us to speak on his blog, and Joecool you for being willing to have a conversation with me, even though occasionally the chats involved either of us stepping backwards and saying, “OK, yupp, I was wrong about that. Thanks for pointing it out.” : )

  12. March 25, 2009 2:27 pm

    p/s. I would like to say that both men of wealth and little material possessions have sinned against God and done wrongdoings… and the only ones among us who can say anything ill about both of them – is the one without sin. God’s unconditional love and grace extends to both Orrin the topman, and Rykel the lowly. Amen. : O

  13. March 25, 2009 2:49 pm

    I won’t imply Orrin is a conman.

    I will say it outright.

    How many more times you gonna quote thoughts other than your own?

    Just like Orrin…

    He’s a fake. And you are pretending to be a fake.

    But you’re awesome, and I have not learned a single thing from you that I couldn’t have learned from any other TEAM person quoting Orrin Woodward.

    I have posted about TEAM and it’s legal fund.

    Go here:


    Maybe you can answer questions the rest of your ilk couldn’t.

    You are not saying anything that hasn’t been said before, and you haven’t convinced me you have anything worth listening to.

    And your time is up.

  14. March 25, 2009 3:14 pm

    By the way Rykel,

    What the hell do you mean by Orrin validates his wife in public.

    Guess what, it’s how you act when nobody’s watching that really counts. It’s called integrity.

    Lastly, Orrin shares the tools profits, right?

    What is the pay schedule for it? Do you know?

    If you don’t, then quit talking like you do know.

    There is no formula which sets out how you get paid in TEAM.

    Have fun working for something that you don’t know the payoff for.

  15. March 25, 2009 9:02 pm


    I got a good chuckle when you “validated” me as awesome… seriously, I was rolling on the floor laughing, because I was not expecting that coming! I wish that EVERYONE, friends and foes alike, would start saying things that are soooo positive to the other party that he/she would start to SMILE.

    Thanks!! 🙂

    OK, we are getting a bit off-topic here already, so I will just present some snapshot answers for you. I trust that if my answers are dead honest, the least you would do in front of the whole world is to say,

    “Thank you. That was a great effort, Rykel. I truly and sincerely appreciate that honesty. I am glad to have met you online. When you visit my country, I would welcome you and buy you a beer, Rykel.”

    Would you? hehe

    First off, with regards to the IBO Defense Fund (NOT Orrin’s Defense Fund – it was set up to defend IBOs in Team who might be hit with a lawsuit), the answer already lies right there in the comments on your blog.

    Read this (verbatim):
    Anonymous said…

    Rocket, I read you occasionally and sometimes I agree with you. Today I don’t.

    Orrin has a lot of followers, and maybe some of them are blind. I worry about them too. But I am not. I question him over and over to make sure I can be confident we are going in the right direction.

    As for the Legal Defense Fund, without it I would be bankrupt. Last August I asked a court to stop Quixtar from harassing my downline, offering to transfer them new lines of sponsorship, or telling them they were breaking some law. I was not yet sure if I would resign or not.

    Well, they made my decision for me!! The harassment of my downline continued, in spite of a restraining order, and no one in my group received any of their earned year-end bonuses. All because I happened to be in one of Orrin’s lines.

    They have used that simple request for a restraining order to try to bankrupt me with nonstop litigation. Q has pulled me in to other lawsuits as well. I am very grateful that the IBO Legal Defense fund has graciously offered to help allay my legal expenses.
    13 March, 2008 10:33

    Well, there you have it! The purpose of the IBO Defense Fund is to defend the IBO, including Orrin Woodward himself, if he so chooses to use the funds.

    Still on this matter, what would YOU do if you were an IBO, and a corporation was trying to bankrupt your most respected leader plus destroy your very System? Was it wrong for IBOs to want to chip in money to fight alongside with Orrin? To “take out our swords” in defense of the Team? *hehe, sounds familiar? Just teasing!* ; )

    (Read “Launching A Leadership Revolution” to find out more about standing up for fellow leaders.)

    As for Orrin validating Laurie in public and private, and then subsequently inspiring many married couples to renew their love for their spouses, really, does anybody have a problem with that? That level of making a difference in society?

    I strongly recommend that we all read “How To Win Friends And Influence People”, “The Five Languages of Love” and all the fabulous books on Love and Marriage to understand more about the difficulties in maintaining a family, raising kids, handling joint finances, dealing with spousal stress etc. Any married person would tell you that it is NOT easy. However, Orrin’s love for Laurie has publicly touched the lives of thousands. Is that a BAD example to follow? Would you prefer kids grow up in broken homes, or with parents who are always quarreling into the night over money, women and differences in opinion? OR one where the man and woman are constantly showering each other with love and positive affirmations?

    Just because things are done a bit differently in Team (eg. validating each other, validating your spouse), does that mean that it needs to be belittled, put down or criticised? Or even doubted? What kind of society do we want to live in? As for me and my house, we have chosen the path of raising positive kids!

    Oh, in case you did not know, SUCCESS magazine is featuring TEAM every month in a special Team edition. I have browsed through a couple of issues and they are totally fantastic! Seeing Team teachings, tool summaries and recognition of Team leaders Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, Tim Marks etc. in the same pages as Anthony Robbins, Harvey Mackay, Stephen Covey, John Maxwell feels really GOOD. Networking is about to go Mainstream, folks.

    As for profit-sharing, I admit – I do not know the formula (yet), as I have been told that it is competitive information. Team would not reveal the exact formula until you achieve Turbo25. BUT, the fact is that Team now openly tells the world that THERE IS MONEY IN TOOLS, AND WE SHARE IT TOGETHER – as a Field Profit Only company. (See “Commerce Through Community” book pg 126).

    I wish I could provide you with more info on this last matter, but please accept my sincere apologies for not being able to do so.

    God Bless, Rykel

    p/s. Does “pretending to be a fake” mean “a reality in truth”? 🙂

  16. Gina permalink
    March 26, 2009 9:02 am

    If you weren’t lying then go and answer the questions raised. You obviously have time…that was the point. If you don’t want people to think you are lying then stop acting like you are lying.

  17. FreeFromQ* permalink
    March 26, 2009 9:08 pm

    Rykel, if you want to worship at the altar of Orrin, go right ahead. Please stop acting like we are trying to stop you from doing so.

    My Diamonds “edified” their wives while the bright lights were shining on them on stage, too. But I also saw how they treated their wives off-stage when the light were off – much different story then. Now I understand why they worked so hard on selling the validating image.

    “Networking” has supposed to be exploding on to the scene for the last 40+ years, but never does.

    I read the long posts and immediately the parable of the Tax Collector and The Pharisee comes to mind. Luke 18:9-14.
    Seriously, when I read the posts, this is what I hear from you:

    ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men — robbers, evildoers, adulterers — or even like this tax collector. [12] I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

    I thought I was all that and more when I was in Amway – all the “positive” life talk. Thankfully, God humbled me and I saw that I was worshipping false idols.

  18. Gina permalink
    March 27, 2009 5:05 pm

    “I thought I was all that and more when I was in Amway – all the “positive” life talk. Thankfully, God humbled me and I saw that I was worshipping false idols.”

    Wow. Well put.

  19. johnnyo permalink
    April 13, 2009 2:05 pm

    Just a few thoughts… I can get my company recognized monthly in Success Magazine if I am willing to pay for it, which the TEAM is as it recently raised the monthly website fees that suddenly included a “free” issue of Success Magazine every month.
    Secondly, the profit sharing that you are speaking of is a joke. The Top Dog runs the show, and sets the parameters that decide how they all get paid… on top of that, its “profit Sharing” which as anyone with a business mind knows can be any number you want it to be.

  20. eggman permalink
    June 18, 2009 6:22 pm

    seriosuly a good read but ya know what who gives a hoot really. go out build a MLM business build it big. learn from the so called mistakes you see from each leader and dont be the same scrooge yourself. Build it once build it with integrity, love your group and build it to last. if you cant do any of that then go punch a clock.

  21. TransparencyPlease! permalink
    September 8, 2012 1:49 pm

    If this scheme is a quick money making machine that will make all of your dreams come true, why is it not breaking news? Is it not a fact that the only people who stand a chance of making money are those at the very top at the expense of those at the bottom who have been brain washed into selling their overpriced products and attending meetings they do not want and at their own expenses? Clearly this is a pyramid scam, disguised in the words of an overpaid legal adviser, that has as its modus operandum the exploitation of the vulnerable!

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