Skip to content

INA Leaders Now In TEAM

June 23, 2009

Back when Orrin Woodward and TEAM were about to be terminated by Amway in 2007, there was news that another major Amway/Quixtar group was about to join TEAM. That group turned out to be INA, my former LOS. Lately, I noticed a couple of former-INA leaders are linked to TEAM members, such as:

  • Dave and Michelle Lovett1
  • Roger and Laura Ann Sitcler

Back when I was an IBO, I knew these couples as:

  • Dave and Bethann Lovett
  • Roger and Gayle Sitcler

I guess these Amway/Quixtar Diamonds marriages broke down sometime over the past decade. Dave and Roger found other people to marry, so let’s hope that they are happy now. I do remember nearly all of the married Diamonds talking on stage about how great their marriages were because of the business. I bet they say the same thing at TEAM meetings today. Of course, reality never quite matches the rhetoric heard from stage.

And so I wonder how many other ex-INA leaders are now in the purple juice business with Orrin Woodward and company?

1 I don’t know if Dave is in MonaVie or just runs a generic MLM help site. I suspect he is in MonaVie, since a number of his social networking contacts are in the juice concentrate business.

  1. March 30, 2011 10:33 pm

    Hey Amthrax,

    I know this was written years ago, but Dave is currently in Numis Network.

  2. March 31, 2011 7:45 am

    So, Dave left the great deceiver?? Why? What is his story? Any details on his fall out with Orrin and Chris and why he left? I will say I am not surprised.

    Another one bites the dust

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 31, 2011 12:35 pm

    Another one bites the dust, how many is that now? I think there are way more big leaders and turbo’s that left than stayed! Hmmm… what was the common denominators… LOL

  4. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 31, 2011 1:09 pm

    We left out of the kindness of our hearts. We needed to make room for the up and coming leaders. It was their turn to shine in the white spotlight! Diamonds twinkling, emeralds shimmering, rubies glowing, shit piles of digested system information steaming in the snow…

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 31, 2011 6:19 pm

    IQ & webelieved
    Oh boy that was good for a belly laugh!
    IQ~ there is truth to your first statement, ‘out of the goodness of your heart’ that I would say pretains to all us ‘quitters!’ lol

  6. Jaime permalink
    June 28, 2012 1:14 pm

    This business caused me to be in $14,000 in credit card debt. Great business for whom?

  7. Sammi permalink
    July 17, 2012 1:00 pm

    Most interesting. I left the Quixtar/Amway business in 2005 due to my own marriage breaking up. NOw I’m financially stable enough to begin looking at rebuilding my IBO and it looks like a post apocolytic world out here. Guess I got out just in time…………….

  8. July 18, 2012 4:44 pm


    Amway is going great. Coming up on 3 years of consecutive growth in the US, and on course for their global target of $12 billion in 2012.

    IMO it’s going *much* better after they tossed out a bunch of so-called “leaders”

  9. July 19, 2012 7:40 am

    @ibofightback / ibofb

    How have you personally taken advantage of the growth? Do you have an intention of positioning yourself to take advantage of the anticipated $12 billion growth? If so elucidate how.

  10. July 19, 2012 7:49 am

    @Sammi said

    “I left the Quixtar/Amway business in 2005 due to my own marriage breaking up.”

    How did Q*/A contribute to that?

    What wisdom is there now to go back in it if A) it broke up your marriage and B) it looks like post apocolytic world?

  11. July 19, 2012 2:42 pm

    exambot – Amway, globally, has been growing for years. Not much in my part of the world though actually. For reasons I don’t fathom they haven’t implemented a lot of the changes that have worked elsewhere here. I’m in the forgotten backwaters of the Amway world. 🙂

    Apart from a couple of false starts I’ve done nothing to build an Amway business for a long, long time. I primarily just a satisfied customer, though my past work still brings in a few useful bucks every month

    I’ve had other priorities. I’ll be sure to let you know if it changes. 😉

  12. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 19, 2012 4:05 pm

    David Steadson, I find your confession interesting. The way you fought and argued with Michael Collins and I on Facebook, you were casting the appearance of a seasoned Amway man. Now, come to find out, your only experience was a couple of “false starts”. Until you have put years into building, as many of has here have, your opinion still sucks, and you are still a fool.

  13. July 19, 2012 4:46 pm

    @Brent – keep the tone civil and the name calling to a minimum.

  14. July 19, 2012 5:08 pm

    Brent, nothing has been “confessed”. You apparently missed the “for a long, long time” part. What I did do, many years ago, continues to generate an income for me (and my former wife, but that’s another story! 🙂

  15. Mike Collins permalink
    July 20, 2012 10:48 am

    If I recall correctly David, I believe it is pretty well documented on the web that the highest rank you ever achieved in Amway was a “1000” is this correct?

    If it is, how much “income” can this possibly generate for you and your “former wife”?………$5.52….???

  16. July 20, 2012 1:15 pm


    Thank you for being forthcoming.

    One is hard pressed to find anybody else as gallant with such a convicted fervor in defence of amway than yourgoodself. It must stem from a total belief. Thus, how come then you are not actively building it with just as much fervor if not more? Naturally, you will undoubtedly understand my eagerness to understand when you were active how long did you build it, and to what level and when was this? And lastly are you still with INA? And what do you think of their association with TEAM?

  17. July 21, 2012 10:43 am

    Mike, no, you’re wrong on two counts. First is the “well documented” claims on the net are that my highest ranks was 3%, which in Australia is 100PV, not 1000PV

    Second, those claims are false. They found a recognition for a new business (different to the one I built with my former wife), that managed to qualify for a bonus even though I hadn’t been in the country for 8 years!

    I built the earlier business to much higher than 1000PV, let alone 100PV.

    exambot, I was never with INA. Apart from a few false starts I haven’t been building an Amway business seriously since prior to leaving Australia at the beginning of 2000. I’ve simply had other priorities. If I start again seriously I’ll be sure to let you know! 🙂

  18. Mike Collins permalink
    July 21, 2012 11:14 am

    Thank you for correcting me David. This is why i asked the question. I usualy have a pretty good memory but with all the BS I read on the web in regard to all things MLM it is hard to keep the “facts” straight sometimes.

    Would you mind defining what “much higher than” means for us? Is is 2000pv? I would just like to know how far off I am.

    And finally, since misreprsenting incomes is quite commonplace in this arena, would you mind offering documentation to back up your claim of this income that you and your ex-wife split every month? You know…..just so no one here is mislead.

  19. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 21, 2012 11:52 am

    Mike you big bully, leave david alone would you? I vaguely remember seeing him in an Amagram as a Amway Diamond pfffffttt. Stop asking these hard questions Mike.

    “Qualify for a bonus” means at least 3% or around $7.50 with the minimum qualifications being met. FYI Michael, that is $2.00 more than the paltry $5.52 you mentioned previously.
    Hey yeah steadson, why not just send Amthrax a screen shot of your current earnings and shut all of us critics up?

  20. July 22, 2012 6:32 pm

    1. Yes I would mind. Your very question shows your ignorance of the model, not to mention the arrangement of my business. First, I’m not directly privy to what my former wife receives. I could probably work it out, but it’s not a simple task. Second, the income depends on the volume, the volume depends on what people buy. Sometimes it’s bugger all. Sometimes it’s a lot.
    2. A lot more than 2000PV
    3. Would you turn down $7.50/mth for , arguably, the rest of your life Brent?

    Even if it was just $7.50 it puts the lie to your guys bogus “analysis” (at least as it applies to Amway). There’s nobody in that network spending a cent except for products they want and membership. Nobody going to seminars. Nobody buying CDs. No sign of the bogus “compulsory autoship” you seem to think is a business expense.

    Just a group of people who like the products and order what they want when they want it.

  21. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 23, 2012 2:26 am

    Wow David, A lot more than 2000 PV, really, you expect us to believe that? What you are essentially saying is that even though you are not currently active in Amway, and haven’t been for years, you have a business that is doing around $5,000 a month plus in volume, hilarious! And conveniently, you are not able to provide a screen shot of your back office to validate said volume. hmmmmmmm

    I guess my 12 years in Amway were spent doing the wrong things, I should have been learning from a genius like you. I cycled several thousand people through my group and not a single customer, what are the odds?

    Anytime you feel like emailing Amthrax a document to support your blatant fabrication, please feel free to do so. Until then….

  22. July 23, 2012 2:49 am

    No Brent, that’s not what I said at all. Your 12 years in Amway apparently didn’t teach you much.

    Several thousand people through your group and not a single customer?

    I find that hard to believe, but on the other hand –

    (1) it means you were blatantly breaking Amway’s rules, and in effect defrauding them and your (qualifying) upline from commissions

    (2) it means you were running your business in a way that I was taught *would not work* and would not be profitable.

    So, you were breaking Amway’s rules and running your business in a manner that would predictably damage profitability. Yes, you did spend 12 years in Amway doing the wrong thing.

    And that makes Amway a bad business?

  23. Mike Collins permalink
    July 23, 2012 7:05 am

    Liar liar liar. You’re a liar david plain and simple. Everything else you said is cometely irrelevant, but what else is new.

  24. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 23, 2012 5:12 pm

    Geez david, where were you in 1995 when I first began and needed you? Silly me, I was stupid enough to listen to Yager, Wilson, and Haugen, when all along it was you who could have helped me succeed with Amway. If you had only been available then, perhaps my wildest dreams could have come true. Perhaps you could have helped save me thousands of hours, and tens of thousands of dollars. What is your secret oh guru, and why aren’t the biggest pins implementing the steadson system?

    Seriously now, you talk in circles. First you wrote that you are earning from Amway, then you stated you cannot access your back office to prove it. Then you claim your are doing in excess of 2000 PV, then you say that is not what you said. What exactly is your point?

    Here you are david, you have an audience of willing, but skeptical students and all you have to do is open up your back office, take a screen shot showing your volume, earnings, and team, and then you can prove that you were right. What is the hold up?

    There are Platinums, Founders Platinums, Emeralds, Sapphires and Founders Emeralds all within the walls of this blog david, go ahead and prove us all wrong. Show us what you know big guy. Silence the Amway critics.

  25. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 24, 2012 5:24 am

    Crickets chirping…

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 24, 2012 7:43 am


    First I don’t have any ‘beef’ with you, I think my reasons for being here are clear. I know anything about you but a couple of comments on here. But I am a little confused on why you seem to not want to answer simple harmless questions? What is your purpose, reason, or motive for your defense, I am not to understand where you are coming from?

    You say you haven’t built the Amway business for a long, long time so why then the apparent secrecy of what pin you reached? Am I reading something wrong? What is wrong with answering to what pin level you hit? You obviously believe in the Amway business, then wouldn’t you be proud of your achievement (level) you hit years ago, what is the harm?

    I must be missing something here, I am not following. If you are sincere about believing in the Amway business model and you had so many customers then your success should be 1 example, that someone could do what you did and still make money from it after 8 years, shouldn’t it? Who was your upline Diamond or group you were in?

    I am not looking for a fight, I am seriously curious. This is not making any sense to me, and can’t quite see what your purpose is or why you seem to elude some basic harmless answers to questions, especially when you obviously believe the business works?

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 24, 2012 7:46 am

    Sorry, I meant to say: I do not understand where you are coming from, it just isn’t making sense to me.

  28. Jaime permalink
    July 24, 2012 8:44 am

    @webelieved-Roger group

  29. July 24, 2012 6:06 pm

    “speak your truth”, I’m a skeptic and rationalist. “appeal to authority” is a poor way to debate, ie “I was a diamond therefore I know”. It’s too easily influenced by anecdotes and confirmation bias.

    Legitimate personal experiences can prove something is possible, they’re pretty much worthless in proving something is not possible.

    So right from the beginning of my internet, shall we say, “activism” regarding Amway, I’ve tried to avoid debates where it matters whether I’m a Crown Ambassador or never even been in Amway. It shouldn’t matter.

    Since it matters so much to you folk though, fine, here it is. I was (still am I suppose) an IBO in the Sala organization, an LOA part of the Dornan’s Network 21. Countries aren’t direct comparable, but in US terms in the late 90’s I was at a level N21 calls “Executive Leaders Club” and roughly the 23% level and heading in to Silver when I got hit by serious criminal fraud on the part of my business partners in another venture. They ended up fleeing the country, leaving me to deal with enormous problems and enormous debts to try to recover the company. For me, corporate bankruptcy was not an option as it simply leaves my creditors with the problem. Everything, including Amway, got put on hold so I could save the company. I managed to rebuild it, but I had to sell a large proportion of it to pay off all the debts. For (mostly) unrelated reasons my marriage did not survive, leaving me with no control of the company. I met someone else, and moved countries. This all coincided with my immediate upline (an old friend from school, who was in platinum qualification) also moving countries.

    This left my group without any significant leadership, and according to what I was originally taught, an Amway business without multiple downline platinums will normally die within a few years.

    That was prior to the internet, it has clearly changed.

    I was taught to have customers and promote the products, from day one. Heck, at our monthly training sessions there were even prize competitions that required your customer receipts to use. We were taught to teach people about the products, respect people who weren’t interested, never use terms like “broke loser” or belittle jobs or education. Given that, outside of Amway, virtually my entire active upline (all the way to Jim Dornan), are engineers, vets, doctors, entrepreneurs etc, what else would you expect? We were taught to be stewards of money and watch or expenses. I was easily profitable around the 1000PV mark, despite be active. We didn’t have religion or politics preached to us. It’s was all about professionalism and respect.

    That’s the Network 21 culture and pretty much always has been.

    Anyway, the end result is that active IBOs in my downline ceased building the business without the regular contact with myself and my sponsor. The next active upline had other places it made more sense for him to work, so he didn’t put a lot of time in to my legs, and next active after that were 1000 miles away.

    So all activity in terms of growing the network died. But virtually every single IBO that was ever active and purchasing for themselves, plus a few customers in the same situation, have continued to buy products, now for well over a decade. A few have also moved countries, and tapped in to IBOs in their countries to buy products. Back in Oz, some months it’s thousands of PV, other months it’s only hundreds. Nobody is going to seminars, buying CDs, anything other than paying their yearly membership and buying whatever they want.

    There’s no logical reason to expect that if I hadn’t built the business even bigger, then it would be paying even more income, and more profit – and that’s all without “tool money”.

    Speaking of “tool money”, I expected from day one people were making money on the tools and events. It made no sense to me that they wouldn’t. And every question I ever asked about it was answered honestly, and we were never overly pressured to buy stuff we didn’t want, need, or could afford. There was no “under the table” money – everything went through the Network 21 office, which was staffed by non-IBO full-time employees. Similarly at events, the vast majority of work was done not by IBO volunteers, but by full-time employees of the N21 company.

    I’ve seen all the tool rebate schedules and income data for N21 and the average incomes, including speakers fees, are no more than about 15% of the average incomes at equivalent Amway pin levels. If you weren’t qualifying at a level, you don’t get some once a diamond always a diamond rebate, you get rebates based on volume, just like in Amway, and if the breaks go a particular way, just like in Amway, your downline can be making more “tool money” than your upline. Furthermore, if you’re not actively out building (and requalifying), then you’re not on the speakers circuit.

    You’ll find around the ‘net there is virtually no criticism of Network 21, or Network 21 leaders. There are hundreds of diamonds and nearly 2 dozen Crown’s and above. It’s the largest single Amway organization in the world – yet virtually no complaints. (btw there are some complaints out there – but I evidence to suggest a significant number of them are fake ones, by JoeCool, particularly to “get” at me – I’ll be posting about that sometime soon)

    I’ve watched multiple friends I knew when I was a teenager go from 0% to Platinum and Emerald and above, and continue to qualify and earn at those levels. I myself made money, early on, with plenty of customers and a well structured business. I got enormous value out of the N21 system, which has contributed to me succeeding in other ventures and have a great lifestyle today. I remain friends with many people I met though N21, as well as with my friends who never joined!

    That’s some of my experience. It was a great and valuable one and I can recommend it to anyone. It may not have been your experience, and I accept that. But please accept that there’s a whole world of Amway, including me, that didn’t have your experience.

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 24, 2012 8:10 pm

    Thanks for sharing but I disagree with you that “there’s a whole world of Amway” that didn’t have our experience.” So sorry but I don’t accept that. Those who “followed” the Yager system were all taught the same basically and I can tell you orrin was no different. There are many people who verify much of the same as a matter of fact it is hard to tell sometimes what org. people are from they have such common practices. This is on the web, many books etc.. from different organization, there can’t be that many common stories unlikely that the thread is so common, not to even mention the same rhetoric.

    Good luck to you though.

  31. July 25, 2012 3:10 am

    Speak your truth – are you aware of the history of the Yager organisation? Britt, TEAM, TOD, and many others are all downline that broke aware from Yager. Groups like WWDB, Goetschel, Held etc, while not Yager LOS, all became a part of the Britt/Yager LOA and “system”.

    They all grew out of the same Amway “culture”, so it’s no surprise they’ve all been similar.

    While Yager has a huge business, the Britt/Yager downline and LOA has *never* represented a majority of Amway. I analysed complaints on the internet, in books, and lawsuits a few years ago, and well over 95% of them were from groups that were identifiable as connected to the Britt/Yager system.

    The majority of Amway is not and never has been a part of the Britt/Yager system, and they generate virtually no complaints on the internet (or lawsuits) so you likely know nothing about them.

    Check out the Amway legs history on Amway Wiki.

    Truly, there’s a whole world of Amway you probably don’t even know exists.

  32. July 25, 2012 10:35 am

    Now would you share these numbers for the last three months.
    3-Number of buying IBO’s and customers,
    4-Personal volume if any.

    Can you also state if you do actually collect the said income from amway. Is it collected in OZ or where you are domiciled? A snapshot to amthrax would be even better.

  33. July 25, 2012 2:23 pm

    exambot, I’m not actively building an amway business and haven’t seriously for a decade. The figures you’re asking for are irrelevant. My income arrangements are most certainly none of your business.

  34. July 26, 2012 8:41 am

    Don’t be easily impressed – I didn’t care about your “income arrangements.” Need I remind you the issue was to establish, and is limited to, your claimed amway income? Anywho, truth as I see it is after you throwed too much dust ’bout it (income claims) you can’t back it up. Even a greenhorn here will agree the figures are, at this point, irrelevant as are your illusory royalty claims.

  35. July 27, 2012 3:43 am

    Yeah, I know how it goes. I post the income statements. I’m accused of making them up. I post scans of documents. I’m accused of fabricating them and told I need them independently audited and authenticated.

    I offer to do that if the critics pay for it.


    Been through it all before on QuixtarBlog.

    The issue is to establish my claimed Amway income? Really? The credibility of a $10.2 billion 53 year old company rises and falls on the income of guy who hasn’t even built an Amway business seriously since 1999?

    Get a grip.

    Anyway, I’m done here. I answered Speak Your Truth’s question because I have some respect for the way he (or she?) conducts themselves on this site and what they clearly and honestly report they endured. I have similar respect for Amthrax, who conducts himself fairly.

    I have no such respect for you.

    You might instead want to consider the credibility of people dedicated to attacking Amway and myself.

  36. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 27, 2012 4:34 am

    IBOFB- Somehow I doubt anyone will lose sleep knowing they don’t have your respect. You are guilty of everything you accuse the critics of. Dodging and sidestepping. You should try politics.

  37. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 27, 2012 5:14 am

    Interesting comments david, did you or did you not reach 3% in 2008 as stated in one of the links posted by TruthSeeker above. The problem is, you contradict yourself so many times you are hardly an adequate spokesman for the Amway, ahem haha…business?

    Furthermore, if you haven’t built “seriously” since 1999 doesn’t that make you a hypocrite? If Amway is so damn good, why aren’t you building? Wouldn’t you want to share your great found treasure with others? My 12 year stint ended 5 years ago, yours apparently 11 years ago, quite a difference huh?

    Who will ever take you seriously when all they have to do is Google your name just like TruthSeeker showed us above. Its you against the world, and the facts david, numbers don’t lie, you do.

  38. July 27, 2012 7:53 am

    Everyone – We’ve gone WAY off topic here. Closing down this thread for the time being.

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: