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Dream Stealers?

July 9, 2009

Orrin Woodward tweeted today something that I’ve heard quite often before on stage:

No one can steal your dream. If it is lost, you surrendered it.

I’ve also read, heard from stage, and noted in the blogosphere that critics of Amway/Quixtar/MonaVie are called dream stealers.

“The dream stealers are all around,” Britt told one Amway rally in 1989. “The question is, will you let someone steal your dream?”

The dream stealers, Britt says, include “broke-losers” with jobs who reject a distributor’s efforts to sponsor them as Amway distributors.

They are also the “wimps and weenies” who gave up on their Amway business and quit, as well as neighbors, relatives, co-workers or others who plant doubts in a distributor`s mind about his efforts.

“You cannot afford to listen to the naysayers,” Britt says.

“You send them to me and I’ll kick their butts … they need a kick, cause they’re destroying one of the greatest God-pleasing businesses in the history of the universe.”

The MLM kingpins can’t have it both ways, can they? They can’t say with one hand that no one can steal your dreams yet on the other hand say that critics are stealing your dreams, can they?

44 Comments leave one →
  1. Joecool permalink
    July 9, 2009 4:10 pm

    I just wrote a blog post on Dream Stealing:

    Funny how some kingpins talk about dreams being stolen but don’t seem to mention about how money is extorted from IBOs in the form of tools sales.

  2. July 9, 2009 4:12 pm

    Yes, I linked to your article in the blog post.

  3. Gina permalink
    July 9, 2009 5:49 pm

    Ah yes…the dream stealers. So how does one steal something that isn’t tangible? Can someone really go into someones mind and forcefully take the will and wishes that make that persons dream?

  4. Joecool permalink
    July 9, 2009 6:18 pm

    I would like to know where in the Bible it says that Amway is pleasing to God?

  5. FreeFromQ* permalink
    July 10, 2009 9:20 am

    E-mail Birdie Yager on that one
    JC…..she’s really good at
    finding “new scripture”!

  6. mrmaximum permalink
    July 10, 2009 10:10 am

    Gotta love the cult mindset they instill. If you are merely involved in this business, you aren’t the enemy. And everyone else is. It’s very black and white with no shades of grey. It seems ludicrous that you could be a billionaire but are considered a loser or a dream stealer if you aren’t in this business.

  7. July 11, 2009 1:59 am

    so tell me this new trump network? is this a new up and coming cult? should we just start a blog about them now?

  8. Gina permalink
    July 11, 2009 10:00 am

    Possible Levi…possibly. Time will tell. If people in the Trump MLM start touting on how everyone can be millionaires like them doing what they did but in reality they are millionaires because they convince teh MLMers to buy books and cd’s and such then I am sure there will be a blog.

    Have you never taken the time to find out why we are complaining about Amway and its IBO’s? Have you bothered to see if the same magnitude of complaints exist with Avon, Mary Kay, ect?

  9. rlaurens permalink
    July 11, 2009 11:40 am

    Levi is confused as usual.
    MLM is a great money making opportunity… for the OWNER of the MLM.
    Gambling is also an excellent money maker… for the Casino owner.

  10. July 12, 2009 1:49 am

    And all the while you forgot to add that jobs are a great money maker for the owner of the job.

    I love how you think a person is confused just becuase they have an opposing view. People are allowed thier beliefs in this country or did you think we all were supposed to be of one mind? So I think everyone could be a millionaire in Amway, that is not technacally wrong you know? But if you look at it in ways that you do and veiw only what you want to see then you are going to get answers that only you are looking for. while the same is said on my end. It does not make either of us confused. rlaurnes and gina you know you both sound more like an act than a real person. guess that happens when all you can see of someone is text.

  11. July 12, 2009 1:51 am

    and I am sure you will come back with some in depth breakdown of my character and how I must be some deluded IBO and blah blah blah, really It gets old

  12. July 12, 2009 1:52 am

    what then would a great money making opportunity be for the average american be then?

  13. July 12, 2009 1:54 am

    Gina there are no tools used in avon or mary kay , at least not to the extent of Amway’s Tools. Avon and mary kay have representatives while Amway has IBO’s . yeah gina once again what is really your point here?

  14. July 12, 2009 9:08 am

    Levi – I would not say that rlaurens, Gina, nor JoeCool or I are saying that being an entrepreneur is bad. What we’re saying is that the statistics point out that being involved in an MLM only works out big for a very, very small percentage of people.

    It’s commendable that you are thinking of creating a second income. Keep your options open, however, and don’t fall too far down the rabbit trail of MLMs.

  15. July 12, 2009 12:54 pm

    while I can agree with that statement I have to say it is my opinion that the reason it is that way is MLM is done at a different level than the average person is capable of doing. that is why so many get on board and follow another person when the ones who can play the sales game on that level are the ones who direct and dictate how it goes. you have to be able to be like that salesman in order to play the game on thier level. just like N21, It’s system works mathmatically but at the level of intensity that its leaders portray how does the average person wanting the results keep up to that if they have had no sales experience? that is why then the tools are implemented and abused.

    for the average person without sales it would need to be broken down into more understandable and do-able system.
    that is why I promote the 3 steps. 1# investment $$ 2# process (duplication) 3# results (profits). I am not making the average person sound stupid in any way but it is an accquired ability to be able to move people in the direction you want them to go and buy what ever you promote.

  16. Joecool permalink
    July 13, 2009 10:33 am

    If someone want to join Amway and sell product, that’s fine.

    The bigger problem is when upline start to push their tools systems on new IBOs and promote it as the only way to succeed in Amway. There is no bonafide unbiased evidence (that I know of) that these tools systems actually help an IBO in any way.

    The tools systems only helps the higher pins who sell the tools.

  17. rlaurens permalink
    July 13, 2009 11:01 am

    Any opportunity where the average person earned more than $116/month is great compared to Quixtar/Amway.

  18. rlaurens permalink
    July 13, 2009 11:05 am

    “And all the while you forgot to add that jobs are a great money maker for the owner of the job.”

    Absolutely. That’s why a lot of people try to be the owner, so they can make a lot of money. I.e.:
    – GOAL: make a lot of money
    – WAY: be a business owner

    I believe it’s only in Quixtar where the goal and means are reversed:
    – IBO GOAL: to be so-called Independent Business Owner
    – IBO WAY: become Quixtar IBO, even if it means losing money (Huh???)

  19. July 13, 2009 12:20 pm

    wow laurens I would definately not follow your financial advice. that was a very vauge answer. it is clear you are out of your element here.

  20. July 13, 2009 12:21 pm

    you say that but then you blog differently when someone actually does what you dont have problem with. you are a twister of words. you really would have been great in N21

  21. Joecool permalink
    July 13, 2009 1:35 pm

    Levi, you keep saying I am twisting words. What am I twisting? What exactly are you talking about?

    I cannot help it if you just don’t like hearing the truth.

  22. rlaurens permalink
    July 13, 2009 5:26 pm

    Yup, yours is much more definitive for sure:

    “The Average Monthly Gross Income for “Active” IBOs was $115.”

  23. Gina permalink
    July 13, 2009 8:50 pm

    “Gina there are no tools used in avon or mary kay , at least not to the extent of Amway’s Tools. Avon and mary kay have representatives while Amway has IBO’s . yeah gina once again what is really your point here?”

    I don’t see what you are trying to say…if anything you are in fact hurting your stance and reinforcing my point. Avon and Mary Kay are very respected in the MLM world and in fact you will find a fraction of the amount of complaints that Amway has. Avon, and Mary Kay reps don’t stalk people in stores and such purporting to be successful business owners looking for partners…they don’t dump their money into the same motivational books and cd’s that people are really getting rich off of and then tell others that its selling the products and following then that will make everyone rich.

  24. July 13, 2009 9:02 pm

    Actually no I am not, nice try in leading the readers to think what you want them to think.
    Also it is not Amway that stalks people. It is the uplines that promote thier own way of doing this business. Like N21 which while thier system works it is done in a manner that gets a negative response due to the fact that highly educated salesmen and women are teaching those who have no experience in sales to go out and do what is not normal to them. The motivational tools are the business tactics used by certain Uplines in an attempt to keep the high level of motivation and dedication to thier system. While N21 is one of the largest groups it is no wonder most comments come from what happens in that line.

  25. July 13, 2009 9:04 pm

    Joe many times in your blogs and comments you take whatever you can from the discussion that makes your point look correct while trying to push aside what else may have been pointed out that makes a point in the other party. You exploit the bad and try to sweep under the rug any good comment. while people like me will acknowledge the bad and the good giving them both a fair chance.

  26. July 13, 2009 9:55 pm

    Levi – you’d be a great addition to the conversation on IBOFB’s AmwayTalk and The Truth About Amway websites. Why don’t you go over there and give your opinions on N21.

  27. July 13, 2009 9:57 pm

    Laurens why then are most americans the time clock puncher for another person. all the while hoping they can work hard enough to accend to owner? never the case, most times they are cut off before they can reach retirement. Most americans cannot attain being a business owner so I dont undrstand why you think alot of people try to be. more correctly they want to be .

  28. July 13, 2009 10:00 pm

    What would I say about N21? That their stratagy works? It’s just not how I would want my business to be known? what would they say? (N21:) So What.

    they are not concerned about what I or anyone thinks. they get it done and have a motivational stratagy and it works (for them) and a few people.

  29. July 13, 2009 10:05 pm

    yeah laurens I guess bloggers like you are just not that bright.

    If you have not caught on yet that N21 is one of the biggest lines of sponsership and that many complaints come about that line. First off the 115 is the average monthly bonus not what is earned in sales. Second off it comes from whatever downline is the largest statistical factor in that fact. N21. have you ever seen joe talk about the plan in N21, it is no wonder that average bonus check come out to 115 since that is what you would get for having to purcahse all that volume each month yourself.

  30. July 13, 2009 10:10 pm

    Tools help to keep a person in the game/system. staying on a mentality that says do not quit and keep on going. its pure motivational. while some do teach, others just simply keep a new Ibo in the right frame of mind. why? so they keep spending each month in an attempt to build this business like thier upline. sadly the average joe cannot do what thier upline does.

  31. Joecool permalink
    July 14, 2009 12:00 pm

    Levi: Joe many times in your blogs and comments you take whatever you can from the discussion that makes your point look correct while trying to push aside what else may have been pointed out that makes a point in the other party.

    Joe says: Levi, that is called the art of debating.

  32. rlaurens permalink
    July 14, 2009 12:16 pm

    And you’re saying my statement is vague?!? You yourself spent the entire paragraph explaining a simple statement from your beloved corp.

    BTW, N21 is the best LOS there is. Ask IBOFB for proof… 😀

  33. rlaurens permalink
    July 14, 2009 12:19 pm

    Not to mention, every time I meet Avon sales rep, they always start with selling their product. I don’t even know it’s MLM until *I* ask them how they got the products.

    For $1, can anybody tell me which MLM rep usually start their spiel with this?
    “I have a great business opportunity that I want to share with you”…??

  34. July 14, 2009 10:31 pm

    oh spare me the art crap, it is the tactics of politicians and lawyers and the salesmen who minipulate and alter facts in order to sound correct.

  35. July 14, 2009 10:33 pm

    err. sounds like N21?

    by the way no matter if we start off selling products people still get skepitical of a salesperson. What really is your point here rlaurnes? do you just enjoy being part of a crowd? let me guess you were not very popular in real life so you came here and chose the popular side? pitiful

  36. July 14, 2009 10:38 pm

    Laurens again what is your point?
    Btw what is your occupation? How great are you doing? Just why are you here bashing those lower on the scale than you? you are likly just a nobody who came here to have an opinion and hopfully feel like you are liked because you dont have a social life outside of this pitiful debate so really what is your purpose for finding this blog and blogs like this to only come and rant rant rant about people and their freedom of chioce? you must not have a life to really be here just downing others

  37. Joecool permalink
    July 15, 2009 10:38 am

    Levi said: oh spare me the art crap, it is the tactics of politicians and lawyers and the salesmen who minipulate and alter facts in order to sound correct.

    Joe says: Isn’t that exactly what you are doing to promote Amway?

  38. rlaurens permalink
    July 15, 2009 11:45 am

    “Just why are you here bashing those lower on the scale than you?”

    This, of course, coming from someone who has 100% of his blog dedicated to show how much better he is than just a single-income employee.

    Hypocrite much?

  39. July 15, 2009 8:55 pm

    Hi Levi,

    I am glad to see that you are a defender of the Amway business, and that you promote it as another source of income, along with many other types of investments/businesses.

    However, with the amount of anti-Amway talk going on around some of the blogs (Amthrax’s blog is considered mild by comparison) will you be somehow so discouraged by the uphill task of defending the reputation of Amway that you decide that it is not worth your time?

    Anyway, I am late to this conversation, but I hope you could just allow me to give a little feedback.

    Seeing how you are a little bit off-track in your assessment of N21 really reflects on the amount of N21 system teachings you have been exposed to. Obviously, you have not heard most of the recent N21 CDs on Prospect/Contacting/Invitation and hence I would encourage you NOT to seemingly belittle N21 (or any other Amway Systems for that matter) but rather keep a more neutral point of view.

    My experience with N21 is very different from what you described, and it is one of the best business systems ever to exist in this world. Bar none.

    Anyway, regardless of your prior contact with N21 IBOs, I do hope that, for the sake of the whole Amway business, you will make some reconciliation in your paradigm for the Systems, in other words, I trust that FOR THE SAKE OF AMWAY, that you would show some kindred respect for N21 and every other System companies.

    I hope I make sense – not just sense, but more so, Common Sense – to you!! 🙂


  40. July 18, 2009 1:40 pm

    where on my site do I do this? I never say I am better than a single income employee. once again putting words where they dont fit. I had a site where I wanted to discuss the need for a second income. I saw it a valuble discussion especially in todays age. but you all turned it into an Attack on all things amway. Just because you dont need a second income where many americans could. I guess you dont read

  41. July 18, 2009 1:41 pm

    No Joe sadly it is not, I dont twist your words to make mine sound better. I dont give half the information in order to only put out what I want people to read.

  42. Joecool permalink
    July 21, 2009 10:25 am

    Sure you do Levi. You told many half truths on your own blog and on others. Plus you censor and delete comments that you do not agree with.

  43. Joecool permalink
    July 22, 2009 5:43 pm

    It might be interesting to note that Levi and the other blogger Mudslinger both have the same IP address and come from the exact same town in Michigan.

  44. rlaurens permalink
    July 28, 2009 12:52 pm

    “where on my site do I do this?”

    It’s right there, under the … oh, wait. You just posted that you’re a liar. Oh, well, never mind.

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