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CBS Money Watch on Why You Should Join Amway

January 20, 2010

Saw this on IBOFB’s twitter stream. Robert Pagliarini, author of Your Other 8 Hours and blogger at CBS Money Watch writes on Why You Should Join Amway. He explains how he was approached with the business back in 1995, and how the experience opened his eyes about running his own business:

One moment I was an employee and the next I was an employee AND a business owner. This is a monumental shift. If you’ve never had your own business, you can’t understand what it feels like to be CEO of a company and to be responsible for marketing, generating clients, cash flow, recruiting, training, and all of the other hats an entrepreneur must wear.

Robert left after a year and went off to become a financial planner and President of a successful wealth management firm. His Amway experience was not successful in the financial sense, but it was so in that he learned the importance of being responsible for one’s own business.

I admit that I gained some business skills while in Amway, though I feel that I could have learned them outside of the business. If someone asked me if they should join Amway or MonaVie today, I would say no, especially if they are joining an MLM affiliated with Systems such as TEAM, R3Global, or BWW. From what I have read and seen firsthand, these companies are not setting up their members for long-term MLM success. Should they ignore my recommendation, I’d simply advise them not to get too swept up in their business and to keep their options open in the future.

The more I think about it, the more that I’m convinced that critics and supporters are really two sides of the same coin. Both want the common distributor to take ownership of his business. Critics want distributors to carefully watch income & expenses and profits & losses, so that it does not become a losing proposition. Supporters want distributors to dream big and do what it takes to become successful. Where the two sides diverge is in how they view MLM success. Supporters think it’s eminently reachable; the distributor should keep plugging away. Critics think such success is slim at best; the distributor is better off taking his chances elsewhere.

74 Comments leave one →
  1. Joecool permalink
    January 20, 2010 2:30 pm

    Having learned something is certainly a side benefit but it is still unethical or a scam to promote a business that does not work. For example, if you learned some people skills having invested with Berni Madoff, would it be worth it?

  2. January 20, 2010 3:22 pm

    Precisely why I don’t recommend joining, esp. if the person will be involved in a Tools-heavy System.

  3. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    January 20, 2010 5:24 pm

    I think everyone knows how I feel about the “Tool Sales” part of MLM from the higher up’s, maybe I should brush up on my stage presence and lines of BS, lol.

  4. WWDBKevin permalink
    January 22, 2010 2:47 pm

    What doesn’t work? You mean the over $8billion in worldwide sales last year in products sold. I agree that the systems need to control the way money is made on tools but Joe you quit the business and you are spending your entire life telling us why. Get over it, your upline Brad Duncan is a Crown now and you still are broke.

  5. Joecool permalink
    January 22, 2010 3:48 pm

    WWDBKevin, illegal drug dealers made over 8 billion dollars last year. Does that make it a good business?

    The systems are still cheating downline out of money. Amway acknowledged this but did nothing.

    Brad Duncan is a crown? Awesome! Greg Duncan is in bankruptcy proceedings. Maybe Greg can earn extra cash by cleaning Brad’s toilets? LOL

  6. Joecool permalink
    January 22, 2010 3:50 pm

    By the way Kevin, do you have ESP? I mean you can determine that I am broke because I quit Amway?

    Also, I am not spending my life telling everyone why I quit Amway. I am informing people that the system tools are a scam and that the tools do not work. Do you have any evidence to prove me wrong?

  7. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    January 22, 2010 4:28 pm

    Anybody interested in buying some Amway tapes from the late 70’s and early ’80’s before I list them on E-bay? Don’t think much of the hype has really changed.

  8. January 22, 2010 4:48 pm

    You should convert these tapes to MP3s and post some clips on the Net. We’ll see how closely the tapes from 20-30 years ago match up with tools today.

  9. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    January 23, 2010 6:45 am

    I was listening to the one last night from my old upline Amway DD, it was scary how similar it was to today’s version.

  10. January 23, 2010 11:19 am

    Give us some more details, either in transcription form or MP3. Would be great to compare!

  11. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    January 23, 2010 7:33 pm

    I will soon, it totally amazed me that the 30 year old hype hasn’t changed much, some of the recruiting methods have changed like the old “arms reach method” or any living creature who comes within an arms reach of you IS YOUR PROSPECT and to be successful IT IS YOUR DUTY to knock them down and sell them on this “blessing from God” business weather they want to hear about it or not.

  12. Candace permalink
    January 26, 2010 7:15 am

    Definitely, Burned our With MonaVie, please give us some audio or transcripts! I sorta wish now we hadn’t had a huge tape/book burning session!! It seemed like the right thing at the time, and it sure was fun, although probably as toxic to breathe as to listen to. 🙂

  13. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    January 26, 2010 5:47 pm

    WILCO Candace, it will be a little while, I’ll probably take Amthrax up on his offer to do a guest post in the future, I’m just jammed up for the moment, I just bought 1500 books last week for my amazon store for $200 from a guy going out of business, guess who get’s to list them one by one….

    The sad part is I have made more money in the last 6 months of real profit which equals…….real sales income-real business expenses = real profit, selling used books on amazon and junk MLM tools I got stuck with on E-bay to the less informed, screw it, if Brig can do it I can too, than I ever did with Monavie, Amway or any of the other MLM’s I got into over the years.

    Lessons learned.

  14. Chris - IBO permalink
    January 26, 2010 9:42 pm

    Hey Champ, way to critique the business and not have the spline to brand it with your name. Have fun being a success at sitting behind your computer making excuses.

  15. Burned Out With MV permalink
    January 27, 2010 10:00 am

    Hey Chris, nice to meet you, BTW real name is Frank I just use the “Burned Out With MV” handle because it pretty much summs it up. Not making excuses, just stating the fact that a very small percentage involved in Mona Vie, Amway or any other MLM ever make what would be considered a real profit after expenses of over priced tools and events, the hype assoicated with it hasen’t changed very much in 30 years. That said it was time for me to move on to a more profitable busisness, I post here in the hopes that someone reading it will not get sucked up in all the nonesense.

  16. September 14, 2010 2:24 pm

    Since you guys want to talk about facts. Here it is: 90% of all business in America fail in the first year, 90% of those that don’t fail will in 2 to 3 years. Amway is just like any other biz. You must be willing to put the time, energy, invest in yourself and your biz without the expectation of making a dime for while. “one successful person says, you must be willing to work for free for a few years before you can find success” 95% of Americans don’t believe in working for free. That’s why 5% control the other 95%. That’s called: instant gratification vs delay gratification. If anyone decide to give amway 2 hrs/day everyday for 2 to 5 years. it’s guarranty that you will find success in amway. Call me with questions @ 508-648-7816

  17. Joecool permalink
    September 15, 2010 10:06 am

    That’s bull. The SBA has different facts:

    Why Small Businesses Fail
    Success in business is never automatic. It isn’t strictly based on luck – although a little never hurts. It depends primarily on the owner’s foresight and organization. Even then, of course, there are no guarantees.

    Starting a small business is always risky, and the chance of success is slim. According to the U.S. Small Business Administration, roughly 50% of small businesses fail within the first five years.

    In his book Small Business Management, Michael Ames gives the following reasons for small business failure:
    • Lack of experience
    • Insufficient capital (money)
    • Poor location
    • Poor inventory management
    • Over-investment in fixed assets
    • Poor credit arrangements
    • Personal use of business funds
    • Unexpected growth

    *As compared to Amway where over 99% of businesses fail. 🙂

  18. CGC permalink
    September 19, 2010 7:24 pm

    Dear Mozart Saint Cyr,

    I think your notion of “fact” isn’t the same as mine. To you it seems to mean any statement that supports your point-of-view. To me it means what most dictionaries say it means, “knowledge or information based on real occurrences; a truth verifiable from experience or observation” In my world, most facts can be supported with evidence, like that which Joecool used to counter your claims about small business failures. To his evidence I’ll add two more sources to support his claim that your statements are BS:

    The second article sums it up well: “Although many people believe that 80 percent of all small businesses fail within five years, statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau reveal a different story. The Census Bureau reports that 76 percent of all small businesses operating in 1992 were still in business in 1996. In fact, only 17 percent of all small businesses that closed in 1997 were reported as bankruptcies or other failures. The other terminations occurred because the business was sold or incorporated or when the owner retired.”

    Furthermore, A Dunn and Bradstreet study of 800,000 small businesses found that 70% were active after 8 years, with about 25% failing within the first year (or 85% of all failures happening in first year). So that 90% overall first year failure rate seems unlikely, yet seems to be on par with what many MLM defenders throw around, though NEVER with any sources for their info. Do you have any evidence to support your “facts”?

    And just what do you mean by “If anyone decide to give amway 2 hrs/day everyday for 2 to 5 years. it’s guarranty that you will find success in amway”? If I give it a try and I don’t succeed, are you willing to pay me the approximately $20K a year my 2 hrs/day work time is currently worth? That’s what I call a guarantee.

  19. October 25, 2010 9:32 pm

    Mr CGC
    Yes i am right about my facts. You need to look at real facts not SBA. They’re control by the government. Just because a company exist, does not mean it’s not a fail company. Many IBO sign up in Amway but never even look at the biz not even for 1 second. That makes them inactive, but they still count as a biz owner. That group that does nothing makes 40% of all IBO according to quixstar record in 2001. Your numbers are accurate when u only look at active businesses. Go back and read the definition of what SBA call a small biz to see if you are comparing apple to apple. Yes if you give Amway 2 to 3 hrs per day for 2 to 5 yrs. Success is guaranty. I will definitely give you your money back. Ad long you are willing to do the work and have the ability to be teachable. Again call me at 598 648 7816

  20. CGC permalink
    October 26, 2010 9:39 pm

    Ms. Saint Cyr,

    Show me some support for your stated “facts” that “90% of all business in America fail in the first year, 90% of those that don’t fail will in 2 to 3 years.” Maybe then I’d take the rest of what you say a little more seriously. Not seriously enough to think you would either be willing or able to guaranty me any kind of income.

    There were three sources contradicting your claim, but are those sources also “control [sic] by the government”? What does that even mean?

    I’d be willing to work and I know I’m teachable, but I don’t think I would like to be a salesperson for products I just don’t think anybody needs. Can’t all those things be more easily picked up when doing one’s regular shopping? What’s the value added by Amway?

  21. October 28, 2010 12:54 pm

    Dear CGC

    Check out this link about small biz in America

    When you own your own biz, you are not a salesman. You are an entrepreneur and you are looking for entrepreneur that have goals and dreams that they’re to make some sacrifices to make them come true. The average American watch 4 hrs and 35 mins of TV everyday. All one has to do is cut the TV time in half and work on your future. First you work on yourself then teach others to do the same. Amway Global has the best system to teach you how to develop yourself, how to be discipline, dedication, time management, goal setting, confidence, positive thinking, communication skills etc… You sound like a sharp guys because you are a fact finder. I like that. Again my number is 508-648-7816.

  22. CGC permalink
    October 28, 2010 6:54 pm

    Ms. Saint Cyr,

    Being a sharp guy, I looked into the link you posted, and found out that it is, for lack of a better word, crap. It’s just a collection of random claims that say small business failure is rampant. Almost all the claims are unsourced, and where there is a source, it is often secondary, and in turn doesn’t provide the actual study that created the data. The first “fact”, for example, states that Statistics Canada data shows “about 137,000 businesses declare bankruptcy each year”. The source provided is a site that sells business advice. When I went to Statistics Canada I saw that actually there were 174,655 bankruptcies in 15 years, or 11,600 per year. Another of the rare sourced claims says “Estimates for businesses with employees indicate there were 572,900 new firms and 554,800 closures”, but a look at the primary data reveals a more nuanced picture: of about 27 million small businesses in the US, there were between 20K – 60K annual bankruptcies from 2005-2009.

    My point? Your original claim of 90% first year failure is way, way off, and the 99% failure rate of those choosing to make it as Amway sales rep is far worse than the norm. If Amway Global has the best system, why is this happening?

    And if selling Amway isn’t being a salesman, then what is it? Do you sell Amway? Do you want me to sell Amway? Or is this about finding entrepreneurs, who will find more entrepreneurs, who in turn will find more entrepreneurs? Now that sounds like a pyramid scheme to me, which seems even less appealing than trying to sell those products I just don’t think anybody needs (and which can usually be gotten more cheaply at local stores).

    I hope you can clear up my confusion.

  23. October 29, 2010 6:21 am

    90% of small biz fail. The reason we cant prove all the facts is because 50% starts under the table. You are talking about Amway when you know nothing about the company. The products u get from Amway, you can’t get them at any store. Our products are 100% guaranty for 6 month, free return shipping label. The products are organic and natural and biodegradable. We have been in biz for over 50 yrs, nutrilite brand over 80yrs, now that’s accountibility and integrity. We have our own plants, we make our own products, zero middleman.all the millionaires in the biz use the products themselves. Fobes magazine put Amway as the 43rd biggest private company in the US with 8.4 billions in 2009. Number 1 consumer site, number 1 company for health and fitness, top five make up in the world with artistry. Enough about Amway. Since you like to do research, go do some research about Amway and while you at it do one about McDonald, walmart, the pharmaceutical companies, the banking system etc… Keep using the generic products and see what happen to u once u turn 65. Dead, broke, and or handicap. Why do think people over 65 have to take 20 pills a day just to wake up on the morning? It’s the generic crap you put in your system thru out your life. “cheap is expensive in the long run” did you know the drs don’t take the meds they prescribe, walmart owners don’t use walmart products, McDonald owners don’t eat McDonald food? Read that book “natural cure” . One last thing, the reason people quit because there is no up front investment. So they have nothing to lose when things are tough, so they quit like a big chicken. When u sign up for Amway, you pay $165, then Amway send you a kit that has over$200 worth of products for you to try or sell. It’s pretty much free to start your own biz and do it in your spare time. Amway is the #1 MLM biz in the world. And they are global in more than 80 countries and counting… Huhhhhhh!!!!! Enough. Call me if you want to be part of this great company 508-648-7816

  24. CGC permalink
    October 30, 2010 7:17 pm

    Ms. Saint Cyr,

    I commend you on your persistence — it’s a good trait for an entrepreneur. But your feeble grasp on evidence-based reality is not such a great trait, for anyone.

    What if I told you 90% of Amway’s products cause cancer? I don’t have proof, like you have no proof to support your beloved claim that 90% of businesses fail the first year. In fact, you provided proof that the number is closer to 25%, then you decided to ignore all that and make some kind of special pleading that nullifies all proof. If you say we can’t really know, then the number may be even lower — like only 10% fail. I really wonder why you cling to that lie, and it makes me wonder what kind of business partner you would make because of this.

    All those things sound wonderful about Amway, but the bottom line is their products tend to be more expensive than products of comparable quality, even with the discount that comes with being a salesman. I’ve looked at the website and I didn’t find a single item I use that I would be better off buying via Amway — not one. Not that Amway doesn’t make some good products, it’s just that the market structure seems to work against it.

    As far as no-middleman goes, it looks like there are many middlemen — like if I sign up with you, you get a cut, as does everyone above you. As a consumer I’d prefer a middleman like Wal-Mart any day — they squeeze the suppliers and maximize efficiency to keep prices down. Amway dangles the hope of making money and keeps their prices uncompetitive. I also don’t like the idea of being tied in with any single product or retailer because that also inhibits competition.

    “Keep using the generic products and see what happen to u once u turn 65. Dead, broke, and or handicap. Why do think people over 65 have to take 20 pills a day just to wake up on the morning? It’s the generic crap you put in your system thru out your life. ” That’s just bizarre, even funny. In what way is this related to Amway? If I buy your cold syrup, which has pretty much the same non-organic ingredients as “generic” brands (i.e., alcohol, high fructose corn syrup, artificial colors), I’ll be healthier? Or if I gulp down XS Citrus Blast with it’s Acesulfame Potassium, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Pyridoxine HCL, and other non-natural sounding ingredients, will I live longer?

    “Read that book “natural cure”” What book exactly? Will it tell me to eat a heavily processed Nutrilite Bar, or to make sure I get my daily dose of CELLULOSE GEL, CELLULOSE GUM, SUCRALOSE, and ACESULFAME K from a Kahveccino? I’m not cherry picking, I could go on all day with heavily processed, chemical laden, non-organic Amway products. Why do you think they are so wholesome, natural and healthy? Do you know anything about the products or are you more concerned about signing up new recruits?

    And why do you think “the millionaires” of Amway use the products? Evidence? And Wal-Mart executives don’t shop there at Wal-Mart? Evidence? Both seem like random, unverifiable claims.

    So far the only good thing you’ve said about Amway that seems to be based on reality (not the 90% failure reality) is that the products are guaranteed. So please, can you give me some good points about the products and the business opportunity? So far you are failing.

    Also, what do I get for $165 if I sign up?

  25. October 31, 2010 2:28 pm

    Dear CGC
    I applaud you for the work that you have done. You are a superb person. I wish there were more people like you out there. First you don’t take anybody’s word before you make a decision, second you give somebody a chance to prove themselves. Although we may disagree in a few areas but we have very similar personalities. I am very glad that you checked out the website and the products. It seems like to me your mind set going in to your research was ‘let me go and find some chemicals words into the Amway products so I can prove Mozart wrong” Well, good job my friend. Now I would like for you to do a research and for anything good you can find about Amway products, I guaranty you that the result would astounding. Of course the SOME of Amway products have some chemicals in them. But when you compare to other products by other companies, they have far less chemicals. The beauty about the energy bar, if you want to compare, they have fewer calories, more protein, less chemical than the leading brand, and for far less money. I don’t know exactly where you live but I must tell you if you want to compare amway products with others, you need to look for a natural, organic store near you. Something like a GNC store, a wholefood market, a nature health and beauty products store…etc. I told you that Nutrilite is the number one in vitamin in North America and Artistry is in the top 5 beauty and makeups. Nutrilite vitamins are Natural and organic base. We are one a handfull companies that have our own plants, gardens and farms right here in America. We have complete control of all our products from ground up. our vitamins are unique with their benefits in one supplement you get: Vitamin/Mineral/Phytonutrient. 500 mg of one pill is equivalent to 2000 mg of a generic brand. How do I know that Wal mart executive don’t use walmart products because where they live, there is no walmart, mcdonald, burger kings, liquor stores… They only puts those stores where people in the middle class live. That’s common sense. It’s called supply and demand. How do I know that the successful people in Amway use their own products because when we meet them, they’re always taking their vitamins, the XS energy drinks, their energy bars. When you go to their house, you only see amway products. Check out also our LOC (legacy of clean) line. All the cleaning forducts for your house and your clothes. Green technology, not harm to the environment, the kids, grown up, pet, chidren, your drainage system. No need to open the windows when cleaning the bathroom, or wear a mask, or send the kids to the neighbors house. the smell is pleasant and welcoming. There is no Middle man when you join amway. Just because you make money, does not mean I make money too. You work hard, you make money, it does not matter who got you in the business. If I don’t do the work I don’t get a dime. That’s what make Amway so great and make all the chickens quit. because they think they can just recruit people and see the money come. No No No. It’s not that easy. If you want to join, I will send you a link that that will show exactly what you get in the kit for $165.00. Let me know and call me @ 508-648-7816. One last thing. You said you like Walmart as your middle man. think about these questions. When was the last time wal mart send you a check? Do you think walmart cares about you or making profits? How many times you hear about a walmart products got recall after injured or killing people? How much money does Wal mart invest in the government to get away with murder? How do Walmart treat their employees? If Walmart does not care for his employees that are close to them, do you think they care about their customers? Think again. When are we going to wake up and think outside the box? I can go on and on… I will be waiting to hear from you.

  26. November 1, 2010 11:46 am

    @Mozart Saint Cyr – Just a comment, but you’re sounding a lot like Tex here, except for the fact that you’re pro-Amway instead of anti-Amway Tool Scam.

  27. CGC permalink
    November 7, 2010 2:15 pm

    Mozart Saint Cyr,

    I have no interest in selling Amway, or more accurately, recruiting others to Amway (with the $165 entry fee). From your example it would only lead me to spinning out logical fallacy after logical fallacy and throwing in a few outright lies for good measure. Nothing you said would convince anybody with a modicum of common sense and the ability to do a little research – from your opening misinformation about small business failures to your lies about the “greeness” of Amway’s products, everything is either just improbable nonsense (doctors don’t use the the drugs they prescribe) to pure falsehoods (there is no middleman in Amway).

    I’ll pass and continue doing the work I do now, enjoy my free time, and continue to out-earn 99% of the Amway recruiters, and keep the peace-of-mind that comes from not living off of deception.

  28. November 7, 2010 2:39 pm

    Be an entrepreneur, a creator, a business man, a successful person, a 5 percenter etc… It’s not for everybody, enjoy your life with the other 95% while the rest of us working on the future. ” You touch what you can see while the rest of us see what we can’t touch”

  29. Joecool permalink
    November 7, 2010 3:34 pm

    Mozart, sadly you only “think” you are working on securing your finances. The only ones who are getting wealthy are the speakers at the functions. They are the 5%. The rest of you are unsuspecting victims.

  30. November 7, 2010 3:57 pm

    You are absolutely right my friend. I am so glad you mention that those guys on the stage are the 5%, before they were on stage, they were just like you and I. This biz give us the opportunity to become a speaker an earn the spot light. No one wakes up one morning and become a 5 percenter, get on stage and be a great speaker. It’s a process. Thank you for noticing that. Unfortunately, 95% of us don’t want to do the work to get on the other side. It’s a choice my friend. That’s why america is such a great country. Freedom to chose. Which side you want to be on?

  31. November 7, 2010 5:29 pm

    Mr joecool
    You want to be a cheerLEADER or a LEADER?
    There no shortcut, no easyway out, no magic Wang, no trick, no bail out, no winning the lottery, no lucky charm, no miracle, no hand out… You are either on top or on the bottom. You are where you chose to be.

  32. CGC permalink
    November 9, 2010 6:47 am

    Well Ms. Saint Cyr, good luck to you. And by “good luck” I don’t mean mean may find more suckers to buy into the pyramid, rather, may you snap out of this cliche parroting, hypnotic trans and see reality.

  33. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 10:35 am

    Mr Mozart, aren’t you a cheerleader for the speakers on stage? Did you earn a net profit last month or suffer yet another loss because of the functions and standing orders? What makes you think that others cannot be just as success if not more successful by doing things other than Amway?

  34. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 10:38 am

    Mozart: “Since you guys want to talk about facts. Here it is: 90% of all business in America fail in the first year, 90% of those that don’t fail will in 2 to 3 years. Amway is just like any other biz.”

    Would you care to link a source to your claim? According to the Small Business Administration, about 50% of businesses last 5 years and of those that don’t, not all are failures. Some owners retire for example. Contrast that this more than 99% of Amway businesses failing.

    Why Small Businesses Fail
    Success in business is never automatic. It isn’t strictly based on luck – although a little never hurts. It depends primarily on the owner’s foresight and organization. Even then, of course, there are no guarantees.

    Starting a small business is always risky, and the chance of success is slim. According to the U.S. Small Business Administration, roughly 50% of small businesses fail within the first five years.

  35. November 9, 2010 11:15 am

    Mr joecool
    Great job my man. I like the way you think. When SBA is talking about small biz, they are talking about biz that report profits and losses to IRS. Small biz that involve capital, investments, risk, inventory, assets, liabilities, etc… Yes Sir you are absolutely right of those small biz, 50% will fail in the first 5 yrs. Now when we are talking about, no investment, no capital, no assets, no inventory, no risk, etc… You have 90% of failing because you got a big heart, goals, dreams, ability to think like bill gates, Henry ford, Michael Jordan, Thomas Edison. Having the ability to change, discipline, courage etc… Most Americans are chickens 80% of them want the other 20% to think on their behalf (what time to wake up on the morning? How much money you are getting per hour? How much vacation to have? When to go on vacation…???). It’s a choice, you can either be in control or someone is controling you. No joecool!! Amway is not the only company you can be successful at. It’s one of a sure way to find success if one wants to. Michael jordan, bill gates, Thomas Edison, Harrison ford and many more… None of them did Amway. But they are all share the same characters: take control, dream big, be different than the rest, work hard, work for free, self belief, self discipline, be a cheerleader, (micheal Jordan had to cheer others from the bench before he could earn the spotlight after hard work).
    To answer your question. I am no longer a cheerleader. I have a team to lead and my biz is profitable after all expenses (fuel, meeting, function, food, travel). And yes I was one a proud cheerleader. This is just to show that there is no short cut. Not just in this biz but in life in general. We all get what we deserve. One last thing. When you are working for a company, you’ are not even a cheerleader, you are the water boy, the gap between you and the CEO is unthinkable.

  36. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 11:41 am

    Michael Jordan and Bill Gates did not get rich by exploiting people who trusted them. That’s what many uplines do. The take advantage of and exploit the downline that they are supposed to be helping.

  37. November 9, 2010 12:39 pm

    Again Joecool, you are right. There are some uplines that take advantage of their downlines. That’s the reason why it’s important when you get in, you must know that it’s your biz, not your upline. If you dont think your upline is trustworthy, call Amway and they would rectify the situation. Not everyone is perfect, I am sure there are a few bad eggs in the basket. It’s true in every industry: the boss exploit the employye, the teacher to the student, the government to the people etc… Again it comes down to self development and take control. In my organization, I am doing better than my upline. I sponsor someone last month, he made over $500 between profit and bonus. Amway works, the biz works, the system works(it’s proven). There are some bad people out there. I agree with you there.

  38. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 12:52 pm

    Many IBOs did call Amway to complain and nothing happened. Some of these Amway leaders are teaching the same unethical things now that was taugh a dozen years ago. Millions may have lost billions because of this.

  39. November 9, 2010 1:30 pm

    It’s impossible to lose a dime in Amway because there zero starting cost (the $165 kit fee, you get more than that in products). More than 50% of the mentoring is free, the functions are for self development, those are skills you use in your everyday life, they are not refundable because you can’t return the skills you learn. Just like when you go to a university. You only buy products that you need for your own use. And all the products have a 100% money back guaranty for 6 months. If you quit the biz, put the products that you don’t want in a box, use the return shipping label (free shipping) send it back to Amway, and get your money back. It’s called basic biz principle. Millions of people lose billions of dollars trying to start their own biz everyday is this world. It takes a real man to play this game. On the other hand, millions of people making billions of dollars everyday in this world. The greater the risk, the greater the reward. Which side you want to be on? Flying high like an eagle or eating dirt like a chicken. Eagles are hard to find but chickens are everywhere, they’re fighting over that grain of corn. Where eagles on the other hand don’t eat anything that touch the ground. One last thing. Millions of people lose billions of dollars in the stock market, school and university, casinos and lottery…. And they still believe in them. What’s wrong with this picture?

  40. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 2:47 pm

    Eagles are also ruthless predators.

    If Amway is so great, why don’t former IBOs continue to buy and use products? Because when they think that Amway will make them rich, they are willing to buy overpriced goods but once the dream fased, they aren’t willing anymore.

    Also, if Amway was such a great opportunity, who do the vast majority of IBOs fail to make a profit? Conversely, a real franchise like McDonald’s has a near 100% success rate.

  41. CGC permalink
    November 9, 2010 3:18 pm

    Mozart Saint Cyr wrote: “It’s impossible to lose a dime in Amway because there zero starting cost (the $165 kit fee, you get more than that in products).”

    $165 does not equal zero, it equals $165. That is money in Amway’s coffers and once they have that it’s not vital for them whether or not you succeed . Of course the longer you stick around and buy their overpriced products the better, but they know they’ve at least got a chunk out of you.

    In the end, your team is little more than a collection of people who have paid that entrance fee of $165, some may or may not have been able to throw a few more under the bus. At any point if you take a snapshot you see a large base of people who have just bought in and are out $165.

    There is no innovation involved in becoming an Amway recruiter, so don’t bother comparing yourself to real business people like Gates and Ford. You’ve been conned into a delusion and you call it a dream, but all you have to show for it is a bunch of empty motivational phrases about chickens and eagles.

    And generally speaking, when you are running a real business you are not in control of your free time, at least not until long after your business is established. If you were actually running a team, you would know that.

  42. November 9, 2010 3:44 pm

    Are you comparing Amway opportunity to McDonald franchise? Anyone who owns a McDonald is already successful? Owning a McDonald is not an opportunity, it’s an investment. You need at least $1.5 mill to open a McDonald plus 1/2 million in capital. The reason why the people that quit don’t keep buying the products is because they don’t have discipline, they don’t understand the value of the products, they don’t want to shop online… And many more reasons. The products are under price. I have many regular customers that are very happy with the products months after months. They are not in biz with me. The reason why most ibo don’t think they make profi is because they don’t understand biz. It takes an average biz 3 yrs to make profit but IBOs want to make profit in 3 days while they are watching oprah during the day and jay Leno at night. They think of biz like a job, “I don’t have to do much to get pay”. There are many free biz workshop, conference call, meetings….etc that they can learn what it takes to be an entrepreneur. But most IBO prefer to stay home instead. That’s why they fail. Just like school, if you don’t show for class, you are not gonna past. Be a man and take responsibility, don’t go tell your friend that the school is no good for failing you. The average person always ready to point fingers when things don’t go their way. No one is responsible for you. But yourself. Not your upline, not your wife, your kids, your boss, your job, your government, your health…etc

  43. November 9, 2010 4:20 pm

    For $165, you do get over $200 worth of products. You have 90 days to get your money back. Keep the kit and the products. After 1 yr, Amway will give you back $50 if you want. You said don’t compare with gates or ford? Bill gates did not have a dime but he had a vision and an idea. With that you can become anything you want. Yes as a biz owner you have full control of your time. You schedule appointment when you want to whom you want. It’s your biz. Unlike your job, you better be there 9 to 5. Yes we are looking for men and women who don’t want to be suckers or “suckers” who want to become men. Anyone who chose to sell their time for pocket change to make someone dreams come true, to me that’s a sucker or an employee. There is nothing wrong for being an employee, but you must have a plan B. You can’t think using half of your brain doing something that any average American can do is the way to leave the rest of your life. That’s insane. What did God even give you a full brain? By the way, this is not directly to you. I am talking in general because I don’t know what you do for living, and it does not matter. We are just sharing ideas. And I appreciate all your comments and I sure learn from them. I wish you good luck in whatever to want to accomplish in life. You are a great thinker

  44. Joecool permalink
    November 9, 2010 4:25 pm

    People who own McDonald’s is very likely to be successful and earn a 6 figure income. The average “gross” income for IBOs is $115 a month and that is not including taxes and business expenses.

    Sure, people who don’t show up for class might fail in school, but overall, many people finish school and graduate, even if it can be hard. In Amway, more than 99% of people don’t make money because of the tools expenses, even the people who work hard end up losing money.

    The reason why former IBOs don’t generally buy Amway products is because they are priced too high. When the dream of residuakl income fades away, so does the desire to purchase Amway products.

    The average biz takes 3 years to profit? Pulling more numbers out of a hat like your 90% failure rate which I clearly schooled you on?

    Good luck with your business. Sounds like the tools gave taught you some fancy anecdotes and stories about why you’re not making money in Amway. Too bad your net is a loss.

  45. November 9, 2010 6:43 pm

    Go back and look at your numbers. The reason why most biz stay in biz is not because of profit is because of reserve capital. That’s the number one reason why it cost $1.5 mil for a mcdonald franchise plus another 500,000 in reserve. Someone with just a 6 figure income can’t afford a mcdonald franchise. That’s to maintain the biz in the first few years. Sometimes 1, maybe 2, in average 3 yrs. I am very glad that you mention how much money an average IBO makes. With an investment of $165 you can make $115/month, That does not even count the tax advantages like fuel for your car, biz trip, clothes, home office, food and hotel etc… If you keep a journal of your biz expenses, you can get a tax break of about $1000.00 depends on your deductions. Do you know how much money you need to have in bank to make that kind of profit? $115 that’s just for an average IBO. To be an average in life all you have to do is just show up. Like an average American, an average football player, basket ball player….. An average American makes about $30,000/year. Can you imagine if you’re an above average person how much money you can make in Amway? It takes an average biz 3 yrs to break even, but in Amway an average IBO can make $115.00/month. That’s an extra $1380.00/year. Wow!!! that’s amazing. Keep in mind that the average IBO does not do the Yager system. Only 40% of IBOs are in the System. I wonder what’s the average income between them? I am sure a lot more. And on those 40% only a small percentage does the system complete (tape of the week, book of the month, 1 seminar/month, 4 functions/yr: the entire system cost $1800/year). I wonder how those that do the system complete do on average? For someone out of nothing to become successful in America, it’s not easy. 1% success rate. That’s pretty good, out of 100 IBOs 1 of them will be debt free, financially free. That’s not too bad. Try that in corporate america? It’s like one per thousand.

  46. Joecool permalink
    November 10, 2010 9:38 am

    Haha, you think $115 a month is a good deal? What about spending $250 a month on average to earn that $115? The tools have a cost and are the reason why many IBOs suffer losses. $115 a month is also not typical. That average includes Amway millionaires. If one guy makes a million in Amway, almost 9000 IBOs make nothing to maintain that average. The typical IBO makes nothing or $10 a month. And that doesn’t include business expenses and taxes.

    Only 40$ of IBOs are in a system? Prove it? Why do you keep making things up? Where does it say that an average biz tales 3 years to break even? Do you even know what you’re talking about or are you parroting something your upline taught you?

    Regarding tax deductions. You obviously do not understand what a legitimate business deduction is. The IRS has denied many IBOs deductions for functions and othe stuff because the expense did not result in an increase in business activity.

  47. November 10, 2010 12:35 pm

    Cost of doing Amway Biz system 100%: 4 functions a per year @ $135/ea total $540.00. 8 seminars per year @ $20/ea total $160. Tape of the week $5/ea for 52 weeks total $260. Book of the month, $15/ea for 12 months total $180. total cost: $540+$160+ $260 +$180= $1140/year. That’s $95/per month. Now depends on how far you have to travel to a function, It may cost in average another $500/year. But in most cases the function are within a 200 mile radius. And the function are far away, you go to them once a year or twice a year until you have a big organization. There is absolutely no reason to spend any money for function if you’re not building the biz. Keep in mind that all these are an investment on yourself. There organizations out there that put together what they call weekend motivational boot camp that cost over $2000/person. Like Joel Austein and other motivational speakers. And they always booked. I don’t know why an IBO would spend $250/month in biz. You need a evaluate your biz and control spending. If you have a convenient store. You should no to NBC and buy commercials for $500,000. That’s not good biz decisions. Those same basic principles also apply in growing your Amway biz. You invest base on your growth potential. When recruit an IBO, first thing I tell them that you need to be in the Yager system after 90 days. The first 90 days I will support your biz, I will provide you with CDs, Books, we have many free workshops sessions, conference calls, you don’t have to use your car, I will pick you up. The only investment you make is to pay $20 for the seminar. I work one on one with that new recruit to recruit 3 people in his biz and make sure his biz is profitable at the end of the 90 days. After that we evaluate his biz, if he needs more time? or is he ready to lead? No one in my biz spend more than $50/month in the first 90 days. It’s only common sense. Maybe you were in the wrong group, unfortunately some uplines don’t know how to run a biz themselves therefore they are not good teachers. I do understand your frustration.

    According to the yager group about 30% of people that sign up in the biz never do a thing. Not even buying a toothpaste. 50% never attend a meeting. Only about 40% register in the CORE program. In my group and all the way up to the diamond in my group, less than 40% of us are in the CORE program, as a result of that, our biz are ten times more profitable then the rest of the pack. In biz, in the first few yrs, you suppose to take all your profit and re-invest it into your biz to enjoy the rewards later. Those are great biz tips that most biz men and women don’t know, never mind the average IBO. The more you invest in your biz (well calculated investment, that’s the key) the more profitable your biz will be in the future. It’s called “delay gratification”.

    Go back to the SBA website. One of the main reason why small biz after the first year was because of lack of capital. The reason why a company needs capital is because it’s not profitable. A company needs enough capital to cover the cost of doing biz for a minimum of 3 yrs, because it takes about 3 yrs for company to be profitable. Do you really want me to provide you proof of that? That’s biz 101.

    As long as you keep a record of all expenses that is biz related IRS can not deny you. That is a false claim. Don’t believe everything you hear. I am a tax adviser and a financial planner. Last year I had 3 tax clients that are IBOs. Everything they have a record for, I claimed in their tax return for them.

    One last thing I like about you Joecool. you open my eyes. I like the way you breakdown the average IBO income. You are right, the same is true in everything. The average american makes $32,000 but bill gates makes 32Billions. Some americans make Zepoooo.
    Amway is no difference just like the company you work for, walmart, bank of america etc…
    Now if we remove those 9000 IBOs that do nothing (i am sure it’s a lot more, I will use your number for this illustration. Some IBOs signed up and hope to make money without doing anything. Amway is not some government agency. And when don’t make any money, they quit and go tell their friends that Amway does not work. “no” buddy, “you” don’t work. It’s not amway.) If we remove those 9000 plus those that are not in the system. Can you imagine what the average income would be then? We are talking about an $8.4 billion company. In corporate America where are you? in the top 20% or in the bottom 80%? Think about the kind of money you can make if you work the Amway biz to the top 20%, even if takes you 10 yrs. It’s worth it. I am not sure if you know the 80/20 rule. In any organization, 20% of the people control 80% of the money, those same 20% work 80% harder and 80% smarter. Become a 20% in amway means 6.56 billions to share between just a few thousands of IBOs. And anybody can do it. My upline diamond used to be a taxi driver in NY city in the 90s. Now they have a mansion in NY, one in Jacksonville. They’re financially free. If they don’t manage their lifestyle now, they can’t blame Amway. They’ve been a diamond since 2002. Most americans don’t get to accumulate a million dollars over their entire life. The first bonus as a diamond is $500,000 cash. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. No it’s not easy. Some people it takes them 2 yrs. But if someone is 25, even if it takes you 20 yrs to become debt free. It’s still worth it. How many Americans that are financially free at age 45? Not too many.

  48. Joecool permalink
    November 10, 2010 2:33 pm

    Mozart, the Amway average income, as reported by Amway, does not include the IBOs who did nothing.

    How many new diamonds have come out of WWDB in the past 15 years? 1 or 2? More people win the lottery.

    You break down the cds but you forgot that you can’t listen to the same one every day and you should have extras to give away. The functions also have hotel and possibly airfare expenses. I’m from Hawaii and functions used to cost me over $1000 for three mainland functions and that does not include the cost for local functions.

  49. November 10, 2010 3:35 pm

    Joe, Joe, Joe
    You are contradicting yourself my friend. On the previous text you broke down that the average income include all IBOs. And now you’re changing your mind. According to, the average income is base on active IBOs. Even the do-nothing IBOs are active unfortunately (you got it right the first time). Those are the IBOs that give amway a bad names. I wish Amway would return them their money back automatically if they don’t do anything after 90 days with a letter saying that “you were never an active IBOs” That would help put the chickens to sleep better. Then I would not need to do all this work. In my biz, I told all my people, if you want to quit, even if Amway don’t give you your money back, I will pay you. Because the last person you want in your team is a do-nothing person. They complain a lot, they take most of your time, any little thing bother them, they Analyze everything, they watch lots of TVs, they’re full of excuses. They’re followers, they’re not born to ever lead. I don’t understand why would someone ever recruit a do-nothing person in their biz unless the recruiter is a do-nothing as well. I look for LIONS in my biz or want to be LIONS. If you are a CHEEP, I give you some materials to listen to, I teach you about some of the products I sell and set you up as a customer. Then I tell you that this is not the right time right now. About the Cds. Who says that you don’t listen to the same cd everyday? You forget that this is your biz and not your upline. I listen to a cd per week and I teach all my associates to do the same thing. You can listen to the same Cd more than once. and it’s strongly recommended. About Function cost, just like I explained in the last post, you need to evaluate your biz growth before investing in your biz. If it cost over $1000.00 to go to functions, you have to make a decision to say that you are only going to 1 function per year. Again, it’s your biz, yours yours yours. Your upline is there to mentor you, not to run your biz for you. About new diamonds. In every conference that I go every three months, there are always a few new diamonds. And the yager group have functions all over the world. New diamonds, new emeralds, new platinums, new golds are graduating every month in this biz. I don’t have the exact numbers. How many others private biz that are creating millionaires every yr like amway does? Not too many. One last thing you mention in the previous post. You said that “The IRS has denied many IBOs deductions for functions and other stuff because the expense did not result in an increase in business activity.” Are you serious? What IRS have to do with your biz? How can they evaluate what’s productive and what’s not? In other words you are telling me if I own a shoe store. Then I make a trip to China to meet with some shoe factories. But when I come back, I decided not to do biz with china. My expense for the trip is $5000.00. Base on what you are saying IRS would say to me I can’t deduct that trip because it did not result an increase in my biz. That’s disturbing. Now you can tell me that some IBOs don’t have the discipline to create a journal, save receipts, maintain an expense account and so on. It’s part of doing biz. Paperwork plays a key role in your organization. All these things you learn them thru the system. Management skill, organization skills, discipline, money management, time management, people skills. Keep in mind those skills are not thought at typical university. You have to separate courses at a trade school, or you can train yourself by reading the right book, or be part of a team that can teach you.

  50. Joecool permalink
    November 10, 2010 4:12 pm

    There are numerous things these cases show:

    Distributors with significant downlines are still losing money. A Pearl distributor shows two years of losses exceeding $7,500 each year.

    Expenses increase as their pin level increases. In these cases the whole line is most likely spending more on their Amway businesses than is received from Amway.
    Distributors can drive a lot of miles to build an Amway business. Examples below of up to 30,000 miles/year.

    Even distributors with “broken off” downline legs cannot be ignored or forgotten. A Canadian case clearly shows how expensive it is to maintain these legs with travel and phone calls.

    The tax court disallowed expenses when distributors did not consult disinterested third parties about increasing the profitability of their business, while only consulting “upline”.
    Many distributors are trying to take deductions for which they are not entitled. What is the real level of integrity and honesty of these many Amway/Quixtar distributors?
    Distributor deductions are typically denied with the “lack of profit motive” argument.

  51. November 10, 2010 4:27 pm

    I call all these things bad biz management. I am sure you’re for some cases. But understand that people make wrong judgment about their biz. That happen in any industry. You must calculate your expenses, your investments while evaluating your biz. It’s very important. People make vague decision about their biz just because their uplines say so. I hear you brother. I understand the tax court too. You must prove that you are legitimate biz to get the credits you deserve. There some IBOs that are not trustworthy. It’s biz. It is what it is.

  52. CGC permalink
    November 11, 2010 7:45 am

    It’s more than bad biz management; it’s a bad business model – for those entering it, not for those at the top. It’s not a matter of working hard or being a chicken, it’s just a dumb system.

    If I wanted to buy Amway products, why not go online and buy them? What value is added by the distributor? I’d say none at the selling level, but everything at the recruiting level.

    Why must I buy products if I want to be a salesman? Shouldn’t I just be able to go out and take orders and have those delivered? No, because actual sales are less important that that $165 sign up fee.

    The biz is dumb and the drop out and no-profit statistics back that up. No amount of positive thinking mumbo-jumbo can gloss that over.

  53. November 11, 2010 8:33 am

    Wow my friend. I am sorry to say that you were in the wrong biz. As an Amway distributor, you don’t have to buy any products if you don’t want. Go out and sell as much products as you so chose. There are IBOs in the biz that don’t recruit people but make 500 to 1000 per months in profits alone. I recruit someone last month. He sold for $900 of products and made $250 profit alone, plus $50 fast track plus another $40 bonus check. What Amway biz did you get involve in my friend? When you recruit someone for $165, you get nothing, Amway does not pay for recruiting people, that’s what makes Amway different than other MLM. Amway only give the new recruiter 50pv toward his first month of biz. I am sorry to hear about your experience in Amway. To build an Amway biz, just like any biz you need to have capital of maybe 25000 to 50000 to invest in your biz. If you don’t have that. That’s ok, you can start locally sell some products develop a clients base, recruit a few local friends to do the same; then expand as you grow and building capital.

  54. CGC permalink
    November 11, 2010 9:55 am

    If I don’t have to buy any products, why did you say I had to buy $165 worth of products just to start?

    Why recruit if Amway doesn’t pay you to recruit? Your focus seems to be recruiting and building a team. How much time did your recruit have to spend to sell $900 worth of products?

    And didn’t you say there is no start-up cost? Now you say $25K to $50K.

    Still sounds like Amway has a bad business model unless you are at the top of the pyramid. If you are selling stuff, something like seems much better — more choices, fewer middlemen. Why doesn’t Amway just become an internet based direct seller? If their products are so great it should work.

  55. November 11, 2010 10:44 am

    You don’t buy for $165.00 WORTH of products. When you sign up as an IBO, Amway sends you a kit, in the kit you have enough products for over $165.00.

    To sell for $900.00, you use your spare time, call some friends tell them what you have for sale. You have a biz, you market it to who you know. The average American watch 4 hours and 35 mins each day. If the average American take 1 hr of TV each day to market his biz. He can easily sell $1000 worth of products per week, not per month but per week.

    Yes it’s your biz. You are in control. Amway does not tell you how to market your biz. If you want it to be a direct selling internet base biz, go for it. You can buy a domain name calling your website what ever you chose and promote your website. The only problem, you have is there are millions of website selling so many products out there. What would be your strategy to draw traffic into your site without spending a fortune via buying adds on google, yahoo, facebook etc…. Amway does not teach that because it cost a lot of money to promote an internet base biz. But if you feel like you have the capital, go for it

    It’s impossible to have a big biz without recruiting others to be part of your team. You don’t need to recruit if all you need is to make a few 100s or even a few 1000s a month. But if you are planning on develop a BIG organization, you can’t do it alone. Facebook started with just a few guys, Now it’s a multi billions corp that recruit 1000s of employees.

    What I said was. If you have the capital 20 to 50k, go ahead and invest in your biz to make it grow. (invest in website adds, invest in leads generating system, invest in yourself, invest in your team…). Another biz formula for you: for every $1 well invested in your biz, you get a $10 return on your investment. You have to be wise to grow wise. But if you don’t have a capital (95% of us don’t). It’s ok. Just learn the products, sell them locally, create another stream of income, re-invest that money into your biz and grow one dollar at a time. The problem is most people want to get in and make money now. That’s a big no no. This is not a job, it’s a biz. It’s not work/get pay, work/get pay (that’s job mentality). In biz is work work work work/get pay, work work work/get pay, get pay, get pay….

    Most people don’t understand biz and don’t want to learn either, so the system flush them out.

  56. CGC permalink
    November 11, 2010 11:43 am

    “It’s impossible to have a big biz without recruiting others to be part of your team.” Why? If you don’t get paid to recruit why do it? Aren’t you paid to sell? If you recruit, aren’t they just competing with you?

    “You don’t buy for $165.00 WORTH of products. When you sign up as an IBO, Amway sends you a kit, in the kit you have enough products for over $165.00. ” That sounds like buying something, or it’s just that there is a entry fee and they throw in some of their products? That’s $165 dollars from the new recruit to Amway. How is that different from buying something.

    When I asked why Amway doesn’t just sell directly, I wasn’t talking about it’s little salespeople starting up their own little websites, rather, why wouldn’t the company use their current site to sell directly. Amway does spend millions on advertising (not to mention all the money they spend on politicians).

    Facebook pays it’s recruits a guaranteed salary and doesn’t charge them to join or charge them for tools. The money it’s founders have made comes from outside investors and advertisers, not it’s employees.

    “Another biz formula for you: for every $1 well invested in your biz, you get a $10 return on your investment.” Wow. I’ll take that formula, anyone would. I bet you wish you could.

    You say of the average person, “He can easily sell $1000 worth of products per week” in one hour a day. I doubt that very much. Do you personally sell that much product each week?

  57. November 11, 2010 1:28 pm

    Yes if you are developing a big organization, you recruit, not employee, biz partners. I know when Facebook recruit employee, it does not charge them a kit, and for tools because Facebook make them work and pay them a quarter of what they make Facebook. That way Facebook will make billions and the employees (no kit,no tools) will make poket change. I think that’s taking advantage of somebody. But in Amway, it’s your biz, you pay, for your own tools. Because you become a diamond you don’t get 1/5 of the $500,000 bonus. You get the whole thing. Again people keep comparing employee with entrepreneur. Entreprenor use their hands, employees use their fingers with the remote control

  58. CGC permalink
    November 11, 2010 2:45 pm

    “Yes if you are developing a big organization, you recruit, not employee, biz partners. ” Why? If your business is to sell Amway products, and you don’t get paid to recruit, why bring in competitors? You didn’t answer that the first time – but you did throw in some nonsense about remote controls.

    And this one:

    “You don’t buy for $165.00 WORTH of products. When you sign up as an IBO, Amway sends you a kit, in the kit you have enough products for over $165.00. ” That sounds like buying something, or it’s just that there is a entry fee and they throw in some of their products? That’s $165 dollars from the new recruit to Amway. How is that different from buying something?

    You keep comparing entrepreneurs with bottom-of-the-pyramid salespeople.

  59. Joecool permalink
    November 12, 2010 9:35 am

    IBOs are commissioned sales people. If the objective is to sell Amway goods, why are so many meetings and tools all about recruiting others? Why don’t some IBOs make money by actually selling the wonderful products?

  60. November 12, 2010 9:45 am

    Some IBOs do sell products and make money. The tools and meetings are for people who to build a team. Unfortunately only a handful IBOs are qualified to build a team. I am not even that I am qualified. But there is only one way to find out. Even if I don’t ever become successful in Amway. I will never blame any body but myself. I am a grown man, I make decision and live with the result. That I don’t just take my upline words for it. I do my own research, buy my own books, other than what the system provide. Then I d
    Made a decision that this biz works if I work it the right way.

  61. December 19, 2010 6:20 am

    The same things that people are saying about Amway now were been said about Mcdonald 50 yrs ago. People thought Mcdonald franchise was a scam. Congress almost banned Mcdonald’s idea. There were many franchisees that wanted to get their money back for Mcdonald university because they thought that’s where Mcdonald was making their money. They did not understand why they had to pay a franchise fee whether or not they made profit. If internet was there back then like it is today, I don’t Mcdonald would survive the negative blogs on the internet. Just like Mcdonald had become, 10 yrs from now, you will see the explosion of MLM in the world. at that time, it will not be easy to start a network because the entry fee will be in the thousands and the system cost will be mandatory and expensive. Then again most people like to use the phrase, “I wish”. I wish I knew, I wish I did not quit, I wish I had a better mentor, I wish I had a better team. I wish i wish i wish….. We are going to hear lots of “I wish” in year 2020 and beyond. MLM is here to stay and it will change the way Ameircans do business in the next 10 yrs.

  62. Joecool permalink
    December 19, 2010 11:05 am

    Except that McDonald’s owners all make money and Amway IBOs nearly all LOSE money.

  63. December 19, 2010 11:37 am

    Mozart – They’ve been saying that line about MLM becoming the dominant way commerce will be done for many years now… and it hasn’t come to pass. It’s not going to happen, and that’s a mathematical certainty.

  64. CGC permalink
    December 20, 2010 8:15 pm

    Mozart, Do you have any links verifying what you are saying about McDonald’s? I’ve never heard those claims before. I have heard about MLM being the next big thing, but that sounds unlikely. I mean, are people really looking for a less efficient, more restrictive, and more expensive way of shopping?

    I’m no fan of McDonald’s but we can see they brought efficiency, standardization and low prices to the restaurant industry. What has any MLM brought? And it is true that McDonald’s franchisees almost all make good profits. And MLM distributors?

  65. Neil Breed permalink
    March 15, 2011 6:42 pm

    Mozart I want on your team

  66. March 16, 2011 5:03 am

    Send me an email at

  67. Dool permalink
    June 28, 2011 8:10 pm

    I am part of Amway, and I love it. I will defend it at all times because it has made me a better person, and tested my abilities. There are a few reasons why I joined amway,

    1. I saw many educated people (Engineers, Scientists, and so on)
    2. Majority of the people are positive thinkers
    3. Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki recommends MLM

    The above reasons were mainly why I joined the business. After I joined the business, there was siginificant change. I read a lot of books, and I started to see the world very differently. It has made me a better person, and even the people arround me have noticed it.
    I have made some great friendships because of Amway. I have completely quit drinking, and only associate the positive few of my friends before I joined amway.

    If someone asked me if they should do Amway or not, my answer is YES. Amway is like university. You have to work hard to get an A+. So will you have to in Amway. In school if you fail a subject, chances are you blame the professor than yourself. In amway I find the same story. People blame Amway for not getting anything, when in fact they have done nothing.
    I think parlty it is the fault of the person who shows you the plan, as they sometimes make it look like you can make lots of money just by doing little or nothing. You have to do a lot of work if you want to make the business big. Its like going to university for 4 years. Except here if you do the work consistently for 4 years, you will be rewarded.

    Let me end this by saying this, if you want success, where do you go to get advice? From a person who is successful right? So before you make a decision to do Amway or not, I would say meet with someone successful to get their side of the story before making a decision.


  68. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    June 29, 2011 1:27 pm

    You obviously haven’t read thru this blog very well. Many of the posters on this site were turbo 100 and above. That translates into a six figure income annually. Talk to successful people you say? GREAT IDEA! YOU CAME TO THE RIGHT PLACE! Now keep reading information seeker.

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 29, 2011 3:07 pm

    Umm Dool, You must not know that Orrin Woodward was an EDC and the other guys, Chris Brady, Tim Marks, George Guzzardo;Diamonds who followed him to sue along with others who were Diamonds, and some other BIg pins that were in Amway. He sued Amway for basically being a illegal pyramid scam, for it not being a viable business with hoplessly overpriced products after over a decade talking just like you, with his system, telling everyone it was ‘the best business-bar none, better than a University? Why would Orrin and others then BLAME Amway based on your conclusions?? Could you splain that one??? We took their ‘advice’ and let me tell you it was the wrong and worst mistake ever!

  70. Burned Out With MV permalink
    June 30, 2011 4:15 am

    Little conflict of Trump reccomending an MLM, he started one Trump Network was launched in 2009 and as for Rich Dad, Poor Dud? he made his money in real estate and then book, game and speaking engaugements?

  71. Burned Out With MV permalink
    June 30, 2011 9:25 am

    Glad you picked up on that, other than Trump buying out an established health and wellness company and turning it into an MLM so he is at the top of the food chain I have’nt heard about any other speaker doing anything in the real MLM world.

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 1, 2011 7:39 pm

    Why would you suppose anyone that could position themselves at the top would hive-five their own MLM or others? No brainer- $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. But for those who will embarass themselves by saying such a thing like it is like a university because they are under the fanasty they will be at the top, lol I love it they think it gives them so much crediblity to drop names and that is suppose to stop others dead in their tracts; rather than face the facts.(stop thinking tech.).

    Last article I read about Donald Trump University and Robert Kyosaki and the issues going on there, doesn’t make sense to try and use that to carry any weight, lol. I think I would read up on that first. And in R.K., E,S,B,I; I know he got his book start from selling it at a Yager function to tens of thousands first on a Amway stage because I heard the talk myself. As a matter of fact that is exactly where Orrin got the information from and waisted no time as soon as all of us got home it was used by all the leaders in EVERY plan and has continued since. LOL 🙂

  73. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 1, 2011 7:46 pm

    Good Article~Amthrax
    Funny we own a ‘traditional business’ and never felt the WOW/ monumetal shift when we became the CEO, Just knew we had better get to work and had the resposiblity of being a true buisness owner. It takes some common sense but more importantly it takes integrity if you want to stay in business! LOL

  74. permalink
    January 16, 2013 2:24 pm

    The fourth comment…….WWDBKevin permalink

    January 22, 2010 2:47 pm

    What doesn’t work? You mean the over $8billion in worldwide sales last year in products sold. I agree that the systems need to control the way money is made on tools but Joe you quit the business and you are spending your entire life telling us why. Get over it, your upline Brad Duncan is a Crown now and you still are broke.

    Is Brad Duncan still in anything?

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