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Never Say I Didn’t Tell You… Brad Duncan on His Brother Greg Duncan

July 12, 2010

Question to all you WWDB IBOs: Did any Diamonds like Brad Duncan ever clarify Greg Duncan’s comments from stage about money, being debt-free, and paying for things in cash? In light of the spin in Brad’s voicemail about his brother’s financial difficulties, I would say the answer is no:

How long has Greg been having financial difficulties? 2008? Why was there no mention to WWDB IBOs? How much edification of Greg was occurring during this entire time?

In the voicemail, Brad also throws another former WWDB Diamond under the bus. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! I wonder what the voicemail explaining Dean Kosage’s departure sounds like.

Update: Here’s the voicemail regarding Dean’s “termination” from WWDB.

  1. July 12, 2010 8:44 am

    They aren’t growing that big I don’t think. How can you be a multi millionaire, but still be in bankruptcy? To me, I don’t think you can still refer to him as a millionaire if he’s in bankruptcy. He doesn’t have a million dollars.

    This is a frocking voice mail? Who the hell needs to have voice mail account this day and age?

    Thank God! The TRUTH about Jimmy Harstead finally revealed! So was he dealing with loan sharks?

    It’s pretty revealing when people are encouraged to focus on eagle & double eagle instead of actually being profitable.

    Wolgamott & Kosage leave, and Brad slams Greg and Jimmy Halstead. Can you say ripping apart at the seams?

    Of course, those people didn’t “build the business properly like me”.

    That’s what they said about Bo Short.

    What a joke. Even when you hit the pinnacle, it’s not enough. Amway continues to rot away in North America.

    The biggest lie is when he says he’s got no reason to lie. He certainly does! If people see WWDB for what it is, Brad might have to go back to work!

    In spite of what he says, there are better things out there, and it’s NOT better than it’s ever been.

    The corporation is only growing because of foreign growth. North America is in the toilet.

    Private jets? The most in the world? So what? How does that help anyone?

    Proof that self serving asshats still thrive in Amway!

  2. July 12, 2010 9:11 am

    Good comment. Regarding voicemail, I’m assuming this was a KATE/Amvox message sent downline. Good thing someone recorded it and produced that lovely video. Liked the Pinocchio graphics whenever Brad exaggerated the truth. Then again, he could have put Pinocchio across the entire video and I wouldn’t have complained.

  3. ken permalink
    July 12, 2010 11:15 am

    This was a Kate to me and is about a year old. My wife and I were platinum in the business for about 4 years of our 10 years in WWDB. I gave up everything for the business and missed out on a large chunk of my life. I was as SOLD out as you could be putting everything that didnt line up with the vision of diamond aside including my wife.
    I believe Im finally deprogrammed and able to really look at my experience with clarity. I dont blame current IBO’s for being so defensive as this is like an unscratched lotto ticket that they believe will all of their heart will one day rub off to reveal the winning numbers, but that day will never ever come.
    As long as you listen to Kate and CD’s everyday the smoke screen remains in place and every word your upline tells you feels true. It wasn’t until I started missing functions, CD’s and Kate messages that I started to question…or as they put it “lose my dream”. What a crock.

  4. Joecool permalink
    July 12, 2010 11:32 am

    Can anyone spell hypocrite? Greg Duncan used to say “stupid comes to mind” when he spoke of anyone being dumb enough to get a loan from the bank, with all the interest and all. Well, stupid comes to mind even more so when someone has a million dollar income and goes bankrupt. What I find hard to believe is how IBOs believe that the bankruptcy isn’t real.

    It looks like WWDB is fractured. Hopefully they will implode amongst themselves. LOL

  5. July 14, 2010 9:23 am

    As far as it being Amvox or Kate, why not just create an audio file and email it to the group?

    Oh, right.

    No $$$$$ to be made from that I guess.

    What a joke.

  6. Steve permalink
    August 8, 2010 8:24 pm

    If you ever get close to Brad, he is not the happy-go-lucky funny guy you see on stage.

    In truth, he is a very angry man and there are reasons for that. Listen closely to this recording and you’ll hear classic passive-aggressive behavior. This is nothing new with him and it is very sad.

    The armor has really come off what I believe was once an organization of integrity. The leaders are now just trying to hang on – not to have it implode while they’re still around and in need of the cash.

    Very sad.

  7. honesttalk permalink
    August 14, 2010 7:42 am

    Around 2006 Ron Puryear put out a challenge over the Kate vmail system to every leader at the Executive Diamond level and below …

    Puryear said “leaders, show everyone it can be done … go double eagle with new people on the side of your current business”. This challenge was specifically for: Ruby’s, Emeralds, Diamonds, and Executive Diamonds

    Everyone in WWDB, regardless of business size, heard this challenge and it was discussed by leadership for all to hear at major functions.

    The likes of Dave Shores told everyone he was working though a list of 400 contacts and giving advise on how to show the “webtour” to new people … he was on his way to meet the challenge!!!

    The challenge was a great plan by Ron Puryear as it would show all WWDB members that this is a matter of work habit and nothing more, but one small issue …

    Guess how many of the leaders could meet the challenge? If you guess ZERO, you’re right.

    We heard nothing more about the challenge nor was it ever discussed as a lessons learned, they just pretended it never happened.

    All this to say, it helped me see the WWDB leadership was lost and was so focused on getting us to buy tools because they don’t know what they’re doing anymore.

    That was 2006, it’s only feel through the floor for them from there.

  8. aurora permalink
    December 20, 2010 12:27 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  9. aurora permalink
    December 20, 2010 12:32 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  10. December 20, 2010 1:06 pm

    If Greg Duncan were ever to leave the business, couldn’t Dave S. inherit Greg’s downline and go Double Diamond?

    In my group, the leaders said the same thing, how they would be going out to show the plan and go double, triple, etc. Diamond. None of them did it. Over on the MonaVie-front, ex-Amway Diamond Brig Hart is saying on-stage that his system will create 2000 new Diamonds in the next year. Yeah, right. Good luck on that.

  11. Joecool permalink
    December 20, 2010 2:20 pm

    That my big beef, in particular with WWDB diamonds. They have never been held accountable for anything.

  12. aurora permalink
    December 21, 2010 8:01 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  13. Ken permalink
    December 21, 2010 10:22 am

    @aurora I couldn’t agree with you more. My wife and I were in WWDB for 10 years and everything got neglected chasing the “dream”. We gave up friends that weren’t going in the same direction (and thought less of them for having bbq’s, jobs and fun), family that talked negative, vacations and our own business. We were the biggest of the bootlickers. ALL we did was live, breath and eat the business. Everything, and I mean everything took a back seat to the business. Every night we were out prospecting or showing the plan. 10 @#$%$% years!! I cant imagine how farther along we would be, the relationships that would still be in place. We made it to platinum status and then became like little gods and had people licking our boots, sticking microphones in our faces as if we had something grand to say. JOKE. We have been out of the business for about 3 years now and I still get worked up about how fooled we were.

  14. aurora permalink
    December 22, 2010 4:56 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  15. The cult permalink
    December 28, 2010 2:17 am

    you should try asking about Paul Tsika , he is a very bad guy who use’s faith to lord over you . He is a complete hypocrite and has bed other pastor daughters OMG what does that say about WWDB for covering this up or worse allow paul to talk about marriage ?

  16. The cult permalink
    December 28, 2010 2:24 am

    I used to think greg duncan was one of the few who was not into the cult like behavior I saw in WWDb , but he suddenly became just like them . I watched him not stand up for diamonds that where so upset with how wwdb was being run that they left wwdb. Greg would always tell them ” you are right wwdb is off track but I need more of you to get big enough on management team to make a change ” but that was all a lie … he let them all stand up on management team and take a stand and he would let them get hammered… then I hear he does not even call them after they have left … he seems to be all about the money… and will not take a stand for anyone.

    But brad is even worse ! he mocks anyone who does not listen or follow him , Dean said recently he had fallen into that trap . makes sense he grew up learning from brad , and dean is telling folks he is having to d program from leading in that same style for so long. At least we see some of our heros leaving wwdb and trying to get their feet back on the ground … we should be happy about that because this all helps to give wwdb the hit they need to change.

  17. Ken permalink
    December 29, 2010 8:45 am

    @The Cult how do you know this about Paul Tsika? Don’t get me wrong it wouldn’t surprise me. My wife and I had a personal meeting with him at a go diamond and he came across as so arrogant. Of course at the time we chalked it up as hard love and just part of the process as rising leaders in the business. Looking back I really don’t think he cared that much. Just doing his job as the man representing god for wwdb.

  18. The cult permalink
    January 12, 2011 5:16 am

    @ ken oh that one is simple about paul tsika, I heard it from some IBO’s at first then by accident I attended a church in california where the current pastor there found out I knew Paul Tsika.
    I was talking about how Dean had opened m eyes to the cult like nature of wwdb years ago when i got out. I am very thankful to dean for this btw.

    The pastor then told me how he used to live with Paul as a child because he was friends with pauls children and how controlling and manipulative he was.

    Then he talked about how the ran Paul Tsika out of the state one night because he had committed adultery with another pastors daughter that he was counselling!!!

    He told me it was more then one time with many of the young girls and some of the fathers where coming after him at night to hurt him. So paul fled in the middle of the night , and since then has tried to rebuild his following but was such a outcast as the word spread about him he was forced to work with MLM companies !

    This guy is horrible and there is a group of women who just contacted me who want to blog about him so get ready he is the next hot topic… plus using faith and GOD to get people to stay in amway is horrible!

  19. happy girl permalink
    January 12, 2011 5:22 am

    OH GOOD , I just had my friend call me and tell me people are finally talking about Paul Tsika online and what a scum he is. Since the whistle was blown on him last year he has written a book and admits he had a ” moral failure ” code for slept with pastors daughters and drugging them.

    It is about time people expose this man. He has cost many women their marriages.
    what a perfect fun thing to hear as I get ready for work. I will pass it own to my girl friends that the time is finally here.

  20. Joecool permalink
    January 12, 2011 9:16 am

    Back on topic. Where is Dean’s “fruit”? Thecult made a claim of him helping hundreds of thousands and I call bull on that claim.

  21. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 1:57 am

    Back on topic ? We where on topic when was this blog about dean? I personally thought dean was a very kind guy who was always there to offer help to anyone despite their pin level.

    We are talking about Paul Tsika who I found to be very controlling and someone who cheated on his wife with pastors daughters.

    Thank you Cult for helping to blow the whistle on Paul.
    I also wanted to say I find your posting to be very funny as you keep people on point and you do not allow them to make racist comments.

    I admire that because when you are upset it is easy to make those type of comments. We all do it sometimes , however they are wrong and just our own anger shining through. I like the fact you seem to want to give people the chance to change. You also remind us to not jump to false assumptions as to peoples intentions.

  22. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:01 am

    My story of meeting with Paul Tsika sounds like yours 🙂 We walked away feeling he was a hired hand for wwdb not a pastor.

  23. happy girl permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:06 am

    Brad Duncan has lost all his big legs by trying to control their lives. He thinks all of the women need to be like his wife. She seems very nice , I do not know how she deals with him.
    Brad has blown out his dads leg who sold it to him, Brad w leg , Deans leg , 5 emerald legs.
    It does not seem that brad knows how to share the spotlight.

  24. cult permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:09 am

    happy girl thank you for the kind words !
    I am glad to hear the word is getting out about Paul Tsika and him sleeping around.

    I have seen him work as a strong arm for wwdb and it is just sad. Tell your friends to blog about Paul as well lets help save some folks from him!

  25. cult permalink
    January 13, 2011 3:13 am

    seriously now you want this blog to be about dean? You are appearing to be a ambulance chaser looking to up your blog ratings.
    Why do you not stick to the topic of this blog and brad duncan?
    happy girl makes a point brad has lost a ton of his bigger pins due to blowing them out.

  26. aurora permalink
    January 13, 2011 5:37 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  27. Tony permalink
    January 13, 2011 9:01 am

    @Aurora… nice call!! I’ve also noticed that The Cult is outing Paul Tsika on this blog yet chastising us on Dean’s blog.

    Happy Girl and The Cult’s motto: “Do as I say, not as I do.”

  28. Ken permalink
    January 13, 2011 9:20 am

    I have a feeling the cult and happy girl are the same person. They (or he/she is) are making accusations with zero proof. Honestly this is a tactic used to discredit this entire thread. They could have even been hired by Greg for reputation management. If a person can take this thread in another direction and start talking about some crazy accusations then we all look stupid which will undermine the entire conversation. Just my thoughts. If there is any proof to Tsika’s infidelity and the “ran him out of town” then why does he have a giant ranch in the same town called restoration ranch that is for helping married couples. I’m not saying it couldn’t happen but put up or shut up.

  29. Joecool permalink
    January 13, 2011 11:15 am

    Let’s reiterate then. Greg Duncan was involved in chapter 7 bankruptcy and there are public documents to prove it. It also showed that Greg lied about buying homes in cash and he used to say people who took out loans were stupid.

    Greg took out loans – therefore?

  30. aurora permalink
    January 13, 2011 11:34 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  31. happy girl permalink
    January 14, 2011 2:34 pm

    Ken , you can read Paul Tsika book yourself if you would like. I am not defending Greg Duncan on this post or brad duncan. Yes I am for sue trying to now expose Paul Tsika. I thought that was why this blog existed. Do you think that talking about Paul is somehow now helping Greg? It would do the opposite because Greg use’s Paul all the time. All I knew about Brad and Greg was them telling us to use Paul for marriage advice. Knowing what I now know about Paul from my own ears from my local pastor I am upset that WWDB was not transparent about what Paul Tiska did.

    I did not deal with Greg duncan so I cannot talk about him. I have no idea about his money situations.

    Why would you now accuse me of something , if anyone on these post appears to be the same person it would be the same 3 folks who where blogging for months.

    My husband and I are not happy with how we where asked to get marriage advice from this guy.

    Paul was run out of california not texas ken.

  32. happy girl permalink
    January 14, 2011 2:37 pm

    We are only upset because of the lack of transparency, about Paul if he has turned his live around ok. Now even paul is coming out with it in his new book !

  33. aurora permalink
    January 15, 2011 5:48 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  34. January 15, 2011 10:46 am

    I’ve posted a new blog post where I look into the identities of The Cult and Happy Girl. Are they simply different faces of Dean Kosage himself?

  35. Joecool permalink
    January 16, 2011 7:15 pm

    Has there been anymore news on Duncan’s bankruptcy?

  36. January 16, 2011 8:10 pm

    Haven’t heard anything.

  37. aurora permalink
    January 17, 2011 4:26 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  38. aurora permalink
    January 17, 2011 4:32 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  39. Joecool permalink
    January 24, 2011 11:14 am

    I’d like to hear an explanation of how a triple diamond could go bankrupt. I also wonder whether Greg was at “Dream Night” this year showing off pictures of mansions and cars and telling downline to “get it done” so they can also have those luxuries.

  40. aurora permalink
    January 25, 2011 3:06 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  41. Joecool permalink
    January 26, 2011 9:32 am

    Amazing, but the hard core IBOs do deny the bankruptcy, even when there are public documents to confirm it.

  42. aurora permalink
    February 18, 2011 3:42 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  43. joeb permalink
    February 18, 2011 9:45 pm

    Hey I see that you have so much anger against the system because of how it has affected your life, but some of the basic principals in those books still hold. What I mean is your letting all this anger affect you, instead of just ignoring the topic all together. Now other than whoever you write too, the only person that this anger and blogging hurts is you. As is told in church, you have free will, so choose not to talk about it. Not to think about it, and focus on what you can change. Your future. If you are, then great! That means if you stop blogging here, and let go of all the anger, then you won’t have anything holding you back. This technically applies to everyone here, so I hope you get the point. State your belief and be done with it. Savvy? YOU CAN MOVE ON! If you could get so high as a pin in this business, then why not use that same ethic in whatever you do now? Being positive is still an agreed upon fact to having a better life, so I hope you take this advice.

  44. shaun permalink
    February 18, 2011 10:21 pm

    hey I guess anything good on these post will be deleted as they already have. tsk tsk. aurora you should question this site regulators. Earlier I wrote a clear,logical truthful comment on how to help you, yet he deletes it. That’s sad. Because as I will repeat, you should quit writing on these blogs as it only keeps that anger in your heart. Just stop thinking or writing about it and move on with your life. As god gave you free will, it is your choice, just like quitting whatever businesses you were in. You have stated your belief and its easy to understand, so don’t keep building your anger. Let it go.

  45. shaun permalink
    February 18, 2011 10:24 pm

    This applie sto everyone here with a negative purpose for being here(which means talking negative about anything here weather it be about their past or not). unless you are also doing something to help change things for a better, this is just unproductive and holds you back from whatever you are doing in your current life. That’s why I’m writing this, cause there’s no other reason for this site to exist then, unless someone gives more links to more information and everyone who writes something claiming negativity gives sources at least once. The sit isn’t even checked by m caffe yet. So I hope you all make great decisions.

  46. February 18, 2011 10:25 pm

    Shaun and Joeb (both coming from the same IP address): Your comment about anger against the system was not deleted, it was sent to moderation.

  47. aurora permalink
    February 19, 2011 4:05 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  48. Amdroid permalink
    February 19, 2011 6:29 am

    Yeah, it’s obvious when all these posts come just minutes apart and say almost exactly the same thing… “hey, stop posting on this site (because it’s killing Dean’s cause) and be a better human being!”

    I wonder if they are posting from Encinitas, CA again. I’ll put my money on it being The Cult that can’t stay away from the site.

  49. aurora permalink
    February 19, 2011 7:44 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  50. team deception permalink
    February 19, 2011 9:41 am

    I wonder if Shaunjoeb got permission from his upline to say those things? As we all know the “minions” or “bottom of the pyramid” cannot say or do anything that is not pre-approved by their upline. He must not have listened to CD about blind obedience to the “life coach” enough times. How hilarious is it that grown men and women worship these life coaches? They will do whatever the life coach says no matter what the cost and then sit back and make fun of people that have normal money paying 9-5 jobs like they are the ones in captivity. “Dream big” as long as its what your life coach wants you to dream about. These guys dont see that they are ones in 24/7 captivity to their uplines and life coaches!!!

  51. February 19, 2011 10:33 am

    I think The Cult/Dean has turned into a lurker on the site. Either that, or he’s moved to Hawaii, where the IP addresses are originating from.

  52. shaun permalink
    February 23, 2011 2:33 am

    first off, i think stating where my address is from may violate some laws per state as far as privacy is concerned.

    Second, I never have been to California or was ever in dean’s group.

    third, only right after i had posted as shaun did my post( that was in moderation) get posted after waiting. and i reloaded the page just in case to check right before i posted as shaun.

    fifth,yes my up line said I could and trust my own judgment, as I make my own decisions anyway.

    fourth, you ignored what i said and just manipulated and twisted my words. I was not defending them(and whatever cult in cali your talking about). I said stop blogging and do something else better with your time that is productive. That’s plain English. You understand it. You just don’t want to agree with inerrant logic.

    To put it even more simply(not that it is necessary as your all intelligent) blogging about anything in a negative way(ranting,flaming,etc) does not have any benefit. It is BAD. So if it is bad, then you should stop. simple. So if you just want to disrespect me when I’m telling you the truth, then that is your decision as of now. But don’t lie and twist what I said. that will just show how lame you are.

  53. Amdroid permalink
    February 23, 2011 4:27 am

    FYI – It violates no state laws to post what IP address you’re at, it’s a public IP anyways. But that not what Amthrax did. And merely saying the state you live in is even less illegal. Heck, I wouldn’t even classify that as being morally wrong.

    Thanks for your insight, but we’ll happily blog about what we want, beneficial to you in your opinion or not. However, I have a feeling these blogs do benefit many, just not those that are in any shady MLM and their “system”. Happy trails!

  54. team deception permalink
    February 23, 2011 5:41 am

    Shaunjoeb said: “fifth,yes my up line said I could and trust my own judgment, as I make my own decisions anyway”.

    Wait a minute. Your asked your upline and they said you could and then you made your own decision? Priceless!!

    That is AWESOME!!!! My upline said I could!! I cannot stop laughing right now. You made my day. What else did you ask for permission to do from your life coaches?

    Shaunjoeb to upline, “how many sheets of toilet paper may I use?”

    Upline, “great question shaunjoeb, and of course I have the best answer since I am a great leader and life coach while you cannot do anything outside of my help…. fire up!!!! My answer is ……. 2 squares unless it was a white knuckler and then I will allow you to use 4 squares.”

    Does that sound about right shaunjoeb?

    You make your own decisions after your upline tells you what your decision will be just like when you asked them if you could post on here. Your awesome, I hope you keep posting on this sight and don’t run away from here like all the other TEAM/Monavie slappy’s do.

  55. Amdroid permalink
    February 23, 2011 5:44 am

    Ohhhhh, SNAP!!!

  56. team deception permalink
    February 23, 2011 7:01 am

    Shaunjoeb, did you put your fourth argument after the fifth argument for any particular reason? Is there supposed to be an emphasis added to point the fourth point? Again, this is great and please keep up the good work.

    Maybe, you could invite your upline to participate with us on this blog? I’m sure they will since they are just sitting around in their PJ’s working from home living the American dream (isn‘t that the promise that‘s given if you follow the system). I would love to get some wisdom from some of the greatest leaders of our present day.

  57. aurora permalink
    February 23, 2011 7:20 am

    Will an ambot explain Brad Duncan’s video talking about Greg Duncan’s 3rd bankruptcy?

    Anyone. Any ambot?

  58. right permalink
    February 25, 2011 4:38 am

    wow looks like u guys cant listen to anyone unless they completely agree with then u twist it to make yourselves seem like you have the upper hand. Hilarious.

  59. aurora permalink
    February 25, 2011 8:20 am

    Is anyone surprised Brad’s video will not be discussed by IBOs?

  60. Amdroid permalink
    February 25, 2011 11:44 am

    Looks like “right”‘s post is being moderated, but he says:
    “wow looks like u guys cant listen to anyone unless they completely agree with then u twist it to make yourselves seem like you have the upper hand. Hilarious.”

    I’d like to respond to that now vs waiting for it to make the blog.

    What’s hilarious is that you don’t think we do have the upper hand. Most, if not all, of us have been in the forest and were blinded by the trees of MLMs and their “systems” at one point. Once we were out and got older and wiser, we are able to evaluate what we were in and how things worked, or should I say didn’t work.

    Strip is all down and what they preach and promise you isn’t true for the masses, it’s that simple. It’s just a way for them to make $ from the dreams of people that mostly don’t have the skill sets, time or $ do the same as they are all taught to duplicate. The theory is nice and that’s what sells it, but where the rubber meets the road, 99% of all IBOs end up failing and a 99% failure rate isn’t anything to praise about, even if you are part of the 1%.

  61. Jimbo permalink
    March 3, 2011 1:03 pm

    I totally understand where some of you guys are coming from, spending blood, sweat and tears for numerous years and not getting to where you wanted to be, and then being mad for being “fooled” for so long.

    Not any different in anything else. I was a baseball prospect chasing dreams for a long time that got dashed the same manner, except I got hurt. I gave up a lotta things chasing that dream as well. I had a lotta friends that got drafted in high rounds in different sports who’s careers ended abruptly as well without reaching their ultimate dreams.

    You just gotta learn how to deal with it. No different in this business.

  62. right permalink
    March 5, 2011 2:22 am

    can i ask how u know of the tools scam and a reliable source for it please? This site would be so much better if it required sources for facts stated. Noone seems to put much links

  63. aurora permalink
    March 5, 2011 4:12 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  64. Amdroid permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:40 am

    Tools scam? Here’s my experience, but I’m sure my experience will be dismissed by those still in the business. Our upline Emerald’s secretary accidentally put in their purchase order of Standing Order tapes for product pick up. Our upline Emerald was paying like $2 or $3 per tape and selling them to downline (us) for the standard $6 a tape. That’s $3 – $4 profit per tape.

    Have 100 standing order in your business and that’s $300 – $400 per WEEK and that’s just if that week was a single tape… since it was a single tape one week then a double the next. So take a month’s glance at minimum – $300 week 1, $600 week 2, $300 week 3, $600 week 4 – that’s about $1800 PER MONTH pure profit from Standing Order tape alone. Figure out 26 weeks a year at $300 profit and 26 weeks a year at $600 profit and that’s $23,400 pure profit per year. It’s no wonder why they INSISTED and made you to feel guilty to be on Standing Order if you wanted to be taken seriously.

    Sure, the tapes were inspirational etc, but if they were trying to sell this as training tools to make a business better then why not give these tools to their business owners at the same price to all business owners. I can understand the system making a profit from the tapes, but individual business owners taking their share of the profits? That’s just wrong.

  65. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 1:05 am

    see thats what i mean. You get all defensive when i ask a basic legit question. And experiences are only facts if they have reliable intel, not he said she said stories.

    I mean come on, show me a fact, it simple. I’m not saying your all lying but it really makes you seem like a liar when you have nothing at all to back you up. If its true then there has to be a source somewhere that at least one of you can provide.

    You dont list facts n your experience arent defined as facts til they are proven. Logic. So dont disrespect me when i never did anything to you.

  66. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:00 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  67. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:03 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  68. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:30 am

    see even more ignorance. Im not even in the business idiot. All you did was make yourself look stupid and assume and twist information which discredits you even more. The holocaust. Hmm its called historical evidence such as pictures with first hand testimonies and documented information. What you say is fact is just.” Oh its a scam and this happened to us, but no one somehow in the whole world has anything other than thier story.” that not how facts work.

    But again if it did happen, then there has to be evidence, other than a blog site which mcaffe hasnt even checked yet. Smh

    find and show me evidence or stfu. You talk negative about something when you can atleast back up your claims a lil bit.

  69. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 4:36 am

    and im not defending the duncans. Im asking for one of you to show even a shred of accurate info. Simple logical moral correct.

  70. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 6:05 am

    ahhh and now excuses come into play. Hmmm only your attorney!? Well i guess there is facts after all. Its just closed off to everyone who post here and yet if it was available to see, then there wouldnt be any arguments on any site. Now my next question which is as vaulable as any, is why do you guys make it so difficult to find? If you just showed it, end of story. I would appreciate and thankyou for giving a real comeback. Btw i will be reading those post u mentioned and hopefully find a fact.

  71. right permalink
    March 6, 2011 6:54 am

    um okay. First i did not mean to offend you and dont understand how showing that information could allow me to abuse you???

    If anything that would be the holy grail of proof. I would thankyou and then support you by actually knowing there are facts. Also if people were to know your id then what. How would they slander your name if your not even in that business any more?

    Also my position is the truth. Majority of post here are repeats of the same thing with no evidences or links to any site that has evidences. Thats why im trying so hard to get one of you for once to stop just ranting about your situations and actually do something. You want to stop people from getting into hell, then take action. Do something that actually works.

    But either way ty for replying and i will try to find that book so that i can comphrehend your pov better.

  72. Vogel permalink
    March 6, 2011 7:58 am

    Who the F are you to be telling people to STFU? What exactly have YOU added to this discussion? Nada. You are what’s known as a “troll”. Pathetic!

    Comments like yours only add to the scamminess of this scam.

  73. Vogel permalink
    March 6, 2011 8:03 am

    Um…being offensive seems to be your raison d’etre. Your position is not the truth; you don’t even have a discernible position.

    “Thats why im trying so hard to get one of you for once to stop just ranting about your situations”

    That’s a very odd course of action for someone who claims to have no vested interest in the subject matter. WTF do you care if people talk about their experiences? If it bothers you so much, don’t read them. Simple enough, right?

  74. humiliated permalink
    March 6, 2011 8:59 am

    Right. You mentioned that the Holocaust had first hand testimony and was historically documented but this was AFTER THE WAR. You understand that what these people are sharing ARE first hand testimonies? Whether you believe them or not is irrelevant because you have never been involved, so you haven’t EXPERIENCED what they have experienced. It rings true to any body who’s life has been destroyed by TEAM and I am sure that any hard evidence they have will come out, in time.

    These people are still in fear of those that run TEAM but are slowly building their courage to stand up to them. That is why they are sharing their “truths” and they have only just begun. This is all a process for them and it would serve you well to respect it. It is in incredibly poor taste for you to come on here and dictate how this process should work. This is not, as you say “an argument” on the internet, this is people mourning the loss of years of their lives, their trust and their money.

    Also, these commenters have posted on the Juice Scam site and there has been feedback from readers that they will not be “joining” TEAM because of what these people have to say, so, that in and of itself is a highly productive use of their time.

  75. Amdroid permalink
    March 6, 2011 9:40 am

    “Experiences are only facts if they have reliable intel, not he said she said stories.”

    So you don’t believe ANYTHING you hear from ANYONE unless they have definitive proof of some kind? So a simple scenario here, paralleling your [whacked] thought process.

    You’re hanging around 2 other buddies from school and they are saying the following “hey, Bob Smith kissed my girl in PE today, right in front of me!!” and then your other buddy says “ya, Bob Smith grabbed my girlfriend’s ass in lunch line today too. I saw it and so did 5 other people”.
    Would you tell them to STFU unless they had proof? Would you tell them what they saw would be much more interesting if they had proof ? If you went and talked to these 5 witnesses and they verified the ‘experience’ would you believe them since they all saw the same thing? Or would you call them liars unless they had pictures or a video? If you talked to say 5 other people that didn’t see it happen, would you be more inclined to believe them because it simply fits your way of thinking more?

    You see, just because you don’t witness something or there isn’t physical proof somewhere, doesn’t mean that it isn’t the truth or didn’t happen to the person.

    We’ve all experienced aspects of the business, just like your buddies girlfriend’s experienced Bob Smith. Have all girlfriend’s had that same experience with Bob Smith? No. But you are on here saying that unless you have proof that Bob Smith did that to your girlfriends then STFU. Who bestowed the honor to you of getting to dictate what people talk about.

    I feel sorry for anyone you associate with. No one can ever tell you a story of something happening in their life or an experience they had with someone or something without you belittling them or telling them to shut up unless they have evidence. Well, unless it fits your needs or beliefs and suits you.

    And you better not be telling anyone either of things that happen to you unless you have pictures, links or a 100% sure way of proving it. God forbid!!

  76. aurora permalink
    March 6, 2011 10:24 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  77. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 6, 2011 11:27 am

    I beg to differ, it is WAY DIFFERENT, unless of course your ” dream of your baseball career” was taken from you by lies, deception, and corruption.
    Thanks for understanding though!
    You coming here being so understanding and all, wouldn’t happen to be a part of a “master plan” by some PC counsel agenda, would it?
    Just a simple question. Good luck with all your dreams!

  78. March 6, 2011 11:04 pm

    No wonder, our upline wanted to get Emerald done at ANY COST.

    No wonder, they teach “Standing order is minimum wage.”

    No wonder my upline used to bark at us if we did not send out a tool order every week….and God should only save you if you did not take the time out and browse the list of tools available and order extra tools every week in addition to your standing order count.

    No wonder if somebody ordered a bunch of extra cds, they would be promoted as the next big thing and their tool order email would be forwarded to be everybody else to motivate them to order more tools as well.

    No wonder, we never received any refund on over $2K worth tools we returned.

  79. March 7, 2011 12:23 am

    FYI – I don’t think @Right is any of those people.

  80. right permalink
    March 7, 2011 2:43 am

    okay well if you just said that in the first place about them fearing and slowly but surely coming together to actually do something, i would have ended my convo earlier. Also refering to my holcaust resource. You forgot to mention i said with pics. Hard proof of the holocaust. But anyways okay i see your point. Just try to make it more clear so those in those businesses do understand. And btw im noot any of those people.

    Also the reason i also care to read these is if people were just lying and spreading negative, they should be stopped. Now after getting a better discription do i see this is not a lie and can be continued. Either way i hope you guys take action together and quickly. Do not fear TEAM and believe if everything your saying is correct that there is a way to win and finally prove this to the world. There shouldnt be anything else to fear if they already messed you up so much. Legally they cannot do anything now. You know what to do so i hope you all decide to.

  81. aurora permalink
    March 7, 2011 6:16 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  82. SILLY RABBIT permalink
    March 7, 2011 5:57 pm


  83. right permalink
    March 8, 2011 12:58 am

    welli said what i had to say, and if want to ignore the fact that i already said im not defending them and am not in that business thats all on you. Im a person who researches for answers and not a troll. You need alot more evidence to believe this fully such as real pics and such because this afffects so many people and the majority are against the beliefs here vs the situation of bob in an earlier comment. Something such as this requires major legal action vs bob doing a misdemeanor. May god bless you somehow someway because you all need it. Also i do backup what i say with evidences such as videos or whatever when i tell or mmostly show people stories.

    Sinserily right.

  84. aurora permalink
    March 8, 2011 3:45 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  85. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:25 am

    Silly Rabbit – way to pick a post from almost 3 months ago to comment on, loser. WWDB didn’t help with our retirement plan, although we sure helped out theirs. Thanks for your useless insight.

  86. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:28 am

    right – yu English suk.

    Bi, amdroid

  87. Amdroid permalink
    March 8, 2011 4:29 am

    Oh, and yeah, sure you back up almost all your stories with videos or “whatever”. It’s really easy just to say that. Prove it, hypocrite.

  88. March 8, 2011 8:49 am

    There are public documents verifying that Greg Duncan was in chapter 7 bankruptcy proceedings. His income was listed as $500K from Amway and $500K from tools and functions. A nice income but not one that can sustain several mansions, jets and other luxuries and certainly he did not buy all these items in cash.

  89. right permalink
    March 9, 2011 11:20 am

    okay can u give me a link to these public documents so i may read them. If it shows his income from amway and tools that is more than enough evidence to back up whateveryone here has been saying. Why didnt one of you just post this earlier? Btw im also reading that pdf book someone here mentioned.

  90. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 9, 2011 11:56 am

    Great you will find the read insight, and disturbing I am sure of it. You also might want to check out Pyramid Scheme Alerts site, Juicescam for more education, Rick Ross site and Steve Hassan, Freedom of Mind Centers information and his books. This should give you a real education.

  91. aurora permalink
    March 9, 2011 12:08 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  92. Joecool permalink
    March 9, 2011 12:43 pm

    Aurora, I don’t know what became of Greg Duncan’s financials after the proceedings. The fact is though, that he does not buy homes in cash. A diamond’s income is not all it’s promoted to be as well. A valid question is why Greg needed a million dollar loan from Amway? Couldn’t Brad Duncan, a big Amway crown or whatever, simply take out his checkbook and give Greg a million or two?

  93. right permalink
    March 9, 2011 2:26 pm

    finally. Thankyou for actually sourcesing something. I’d appreciated more earlier, but the questions have been answered and thats what counts.

  94. Amdroid permalink
    March 9, 2011 2:44 pm

    Wait a minute. Didn’t I hear one of Greg Duncan’s tapes that he used to in some way counsel the President of the U.S.? I also think he was introduced that way as a speaker. But I want to say he was a financial counselor for the President? God, if so I don’t know even know where to begin to explain the hypocrisy and jokes explaining why the U.S. is in debt as it is.

    Really? $900,000 in jewelry and furs? How many homes and property? And then you get to just declare bankruptcy? Seriously, people like this need to be shot and exterminated. Soooo many people looked up to him as being a financial “god”. What a joke and scam it really all is.

  95. Joecool permalink
    March 10, 2011 1:21 pm

    Greg Duncan was counsel for the president of Greg Duncan Enterprises. LOL

  96. aurora permalink
    March 12, 2011 4:49 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  97. right permalink
    March 26, 2011 2:25 am

    hey i have a new question considering the direct platinum profit of tools such as tapes. Since amway worked with the state of hawaii and produced a new document for a businesses, it is to state that they recieve no profits from any tools or products sold. This is only required by law in hawaii as far as i have researched. How would they then profit this way? How do some lose money if they have a hub since”as wwdb say” they recieve no money from the tools/products sold directly other than in pv/bv as far as platinums n below count.

  98. right permalink
    March 29, 2011 5:02 am

    cmon give me an answer? Or you cant?

  99. aurora permalink
    March 30, 2011 4:20 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  100. right permalink
    April 3, 2011 6:27 am

    that he greg duncan lied specifically. as can be possible with other diamonds. He will reap what he sows when god judges him. Either way when the economy drops all the diamonds(along with most of america) will be broke. Now can you please answer my question. Do you know how or if they can profit from tools in hawaii with these legal documents in place? Or did mat tsuruda just lose alot of cash being the only diamond left there.

  101. aurora permalink
    April 4, 2011 5:49 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  102. April 5, 2011 4:33 pm

    I don’t wish financial difficulties on anyone, but Greg Duncan’s issues show that diamonds are not bullet proof. They can make bad decisions and may not be the all knowing gurus about money that they sometimes proclaim from a WWDB stage. It also shows clearly that diamonds do not make the kind of income that would sustain a “diamond” lifestyle. Greg Duncan was making only half a million dollars a year from Amway. A great income for sure but not nearly enough to sustain the lifestyle he was implying or trying to portray.

  103. aurora permalink
    April 6, 2011 8:58 am


    No one knows what you are talking about. Since English isn’t your first language, it makes it extra hard to figure out what you are saying.

    I haven’t heard about any document produced for Hawaii re: amway tool profits. You’ll probably have to ask a higher-up in wwdb. Good luck getting any version of the truth. They’ll feed you so much tape-speak bullshit, even you will be confused.

    What is the latest on Matt Tsuruda? Is he still a diamond?

  104. April 6, 2011 10:23 am

    Matt Tsuruda was an EDC when I was an IBO. I’m not sure where he’s at and frankly, I wonder if he’s even a diamond as of this writing. Seems funny though, that many of the Hawaii diamonds moved to states where the cost of living is cheaper. Mike Woods went to Texas and Scott Harimoto moved to Washington. Teresa Tsuruda married Howie Danzik but they don;t live in Hawaii either.

  105. aurora permalink
    April 6, 2011 1:59 pm


    I don’t think there are too many of us old wwdb codgers on here. Would love to get my hands on a current tools list. Boy, oh, boy, that’d be an eye-opener.

    Can anyone get us a copy of that list? Could you post it here?

    I’m with you on not wishing ill-will on any of these folks. But for goodness’s sake, say something! Their silence screams volumes. I say man-up and come clean. Admit your mistakes. We are a forgiving audience.

    I would add, we’d like the truth this time around.

  106. April 6, 2011 5:57 pm

    RP 587 A Financial Planners Viewpoint – Sestina

    Prospecting packs

    EM 53 Planning a Successful future – Sestina
    INT 1001 Tapping into the network
    RP 2295 How to create wealth – britt

    True North

    RP 511 Getting Started – G Duncan
    RP 56 How to invite and contact – Puryear
    RP 380S Prospecting – Hawkins
    RP 504S Follow up and Follow thru Severn
    RP 391 Legitimizing your business – Puryear
    RP 189 How to be CORE – Daughery
    RP 453S Go Diamond in two years – britt
    RP 421S Friendship/directship – Puryear


    ADS 55 John/Jennie Crowe
    ADS 58 Rex/Betty Renfrow
    ADS 59 Bob/Jackie Zeender
    CR 53 Dave/Lorna Taylor
    DBS 37 Paul/Debbie Miller
    DBS 39 Angelo/Claudia Nardone
    DIA 119 Jack/Magee Spencer
    LPL 7S Trevor/Jackie Lowe
    RP 90 Dave/Jo Eggers
    RP 145 John/Pam Marta
    RP 159 Fred.Madelon Holpp
    RP 187 Steve/Chris Cummins
    RP 192 Jim/Betty Brooks
    RP 200 Bob/Mary Smiley
    RP 223 Gator/Connie Strog
    RP 231 Toshi/Bea Taba
    RP 251 Terry/Fran Woodhead
    RP 258 Theron/Darlene Nelson
    RP 264S Jeff/Andrea Moore
    RP 267 Ken/Gail Stokes
    RP 283 Al/Kathy Gallo
    RP 293 Bill/Sandie Hawkins
    RP 319 Gene/Sheryl Lamazor
    RP 329 Bill/Nancy Kelly
    RP 331S Dave/Jan Severn
    RP 332 Jim/Judy Head
    RP 355 Roger/Joyce Fix
    RP 357 Greg/Laurie Duncan
    RP 392S Brad/Julie Duncan
    RP 394 Bob/Betty Wells
    RP 397 Norm/Pam Kirizian
    RP 401 Joe/Norma Foglio
    RP 412 Terry/Linda Felber
    RP 423 Jack/Rita Daughery
    RP 458S Dave/Debbie Shores
    RP 465S Rocky Covington
    RP 469S Ron/Georgia Puryear
    RP 498 Larry/Pam Winters
    RP 499 Chris/Judy Cherest
    RP 500 Bruce/Rita Dreyer
    RP 501 Greg/Cathy Jahnke
    RP 505 Randy/Connie Glasock
    RP 507 Dan/Sandie Yuen
    RP 510 Nick/Julia Olynyk
    RP 521 Chuck/Cindy Mace
    RP 523 Jim/Julie Hardstead
    RP 535 Brad/Leslie Wolgamott
    RP 538 Dave/Mary Timko
    RP 540 Rod/Penny Alcott
    RP 581 Frank/Sheilagh Radford
    RP 594 Glen/Joya Baker
    RP 598 Scott/Cris Harimoto
    RP 600 Darel/Kathy Ansley
    RP 602 Don/Jan Ashlock
    RP 604 Randy/Sandy Sears
    RP 606 Mike/Michi Woods
    RP 608 Tom/Judy Ashlock
    RP 616 Mike/Robin Carroll
    RP 618 Keiji/Jean Bulette
    RP 630 Theresa Tsuruda
    RP 340 Mike/Jane Whims
    RP 646 Dennis/Connie Long

  107. Amdroid permalink
    April 6, 2011 6:00 pm

    This is a current tools list? Wow, looks like they are recycling through the old tapes. Shocking!!

  108. Ken permalink
    April 6, 2011 6:15 pm

    No that’s a very old list. I have a good friend who is still in the biz and Ill get some info from him. It’s the same old crap tho. Just for giggles I logged onto the wwdb site (login in is still guest and dream) and found a local 2nd look meeting and actually attended it. It was funny because I was dressed down and got it as a guest when I was once the guy collecting money at the door. Anyway it was howie danzik speaking. Same old tired crap. It was the first one I had been to since my departure 3 years ago. He mentioned some new flavor of junk you squeeze in water and it was almost like the whole brainwashed crowd had an orgasm. They ooowwed and ahhwed over it. I stayed after just to watch people huddle around the players taking notes like they were celebrities.

  109. right permalink
    April 6, 2011 8:16 pm

    ill try find out the document i posted about. There a link to it on hawaiis state site. And matt tsuruda bought out a bunch of land on oahu and is already in developement of there second and third house there. One house is for thier platinum parents there and its all on agricultural land. So there rushing cause the laws here are changing to limit land development on those types of land.

  110. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 5:11 am

    Ya, that’s a very old list from the 90’s. Does anyone still have Dean Kosage’s Emerald tape?

  111. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 8:16 am


    Howie Danzik??? You’ve got to be kidding. He’s gotta be getting up there. We first saw him and his then wife, Susie Danzik – funny how they leave that little tidbit out, isn’t it?, in 1995.

    Very shorty after, they divorced b/c ‘she didn’t have a dream, she was a floozy, she had no dream, she was dragging him down, fill in the blank.

    Enter Teresa Tsuruda. How marries her and it’s like Susie never existed.

    They spent years telling how Teresa was begging God to bring her a husband. Supposedly Ron Puryear tells her to make a detailed list of what she wants in a man, and lo and behold, Howie made the grade. Glory be.

  112. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 10:05 am

    By “… they divorced b/c ‘she didn’t have a dream, she was a floozy, she had no dream, she was dragging him down, fill in the blank”, that means that Susan got busted screwing her tennis instructor and got the boot by Howie.

  113. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:23 am

    Hi, Amdroid;

    Nice of you to stop by. Do you use the same standard to judge Brad Wolgamott for him sleeping with bar hops? Remember him? His amway diamond claim-to-fame was SAVING MARRIAGES!

    Funny how that backfires when you’re the one out whoring around.

  114. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:34 am

    I’m always amazed how when someone divorces in wwdb, they go after the one that dared leave the cult. They totally trash their characters. How would we know different? We can’t get a hold of Susie to get her side.

    I’m sure your upline, amdroid, tells you only the pure unadulterated amway truth, right? Ambots would never lie or exaggerate anything ever.

    Hey, Amdroid, have you heard the voicemail of Ron Puryear, Greg Duncan, and a third ‘droid going after Dino Kosage? It’s great. They eat their own.

  115. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:42 am

    I have the same standard for anyone who cheats on their spouse. In this case we were just talking about Susan Danzik.
    Do I remember Brad Wolgamott? How could anyone in any LOS not know who he was. I got my pic with him back in the day while he was still proclaiming to how the business made his marriage to Leslie so awesome. Obviously that was crap, just like it all pretty much was.

    Let’s make a list here of “Claim-to-Fames”:

    Brad Wolgamott – Marriage Saver – oops, screwed around on his wife and she left him
    Greg Duncan – Pay cash for everything, I can!! – oops, been bankrupt how many times now


  116. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 11:49 am

    Sorry, Aurora, I’m no longer in the business. Was out in the late 90’s. Don’t know where you’re getting that I’m backing Amway or WWDB or the business at all.

    True, I don’t know Susan’s side, but why is my explanation of what happened any different than yours? Yours is just vague about her not having a dream. Mine was a little more personal about her from what I head right when it all happened. For all I know, it’s wrong, just trying to add to the conversation. I sure hope you’re not being defensive bc you’re a woman. Like I said before, anyone who cheats on their spouse, man or woman, is crap in my book.

    Have I heard the vm? Yes, I got a copy of that and exposed it on another website that posted it.

  117. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 1:11 pm


    I’m very sorry to have offended you. I must have mistken your tone about Susie.

    Please accept my apology?

  118. aurora permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:36 pm

    O.K., This is scary. Where are all the posts?

  119. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:50 pm

    Definitely. I figured you may have taken my comment the wrong way.

  120. Amdroid permalink
    April 7, 2011 2:51 pm

    Looks like you have to click on “Older Comments” link below the video. Amthrax, did something change bc when the page refreshes you have to click the “Older Comments” each time to show the posts.

  121. April 8, 2011 12:01 am

    Each post shows up to 100 comments at a time. You have to click the Older Comments to see previous ones.

  122. evolution23 permalink
    July 26, 2011 6:36 pm

    I love how everyone is talking him down, yet brad clearly says that greg didn’t listen to even his own advice, but is it the first time where a person in an overall good organization makes some poor decisions and it backfires. If one person would ruin an entire organization, how does it still run, how does the us government still exist, there have been many presidents who have done far worse things and yet record numbers of people vote. Nothing in the business says to borrow money and put it in risky investments, yet greg did and now he owes a lot of money, he still recieves his monthly income, but he now has a deep hole to climb out of.

  123. Old Mountain Man permalink
    September 7, 2011 2:32 pm

    People that got divorced while I was in WWDB, included Howie, (He said she cheated on him whit the tennis pro at the club) Jim Brooks, (He said she cheated on him with a direct in their business), and Frank Radford, I never heard about that one.
    I also did not hear about Samir Attalh cheating on his spouse, and that there was a lawsuit by the direct lady that he cheated with. She got her business pulled because of the rule, “Don’t mess with anybody’s spouse”. Since she was single, Samir didn’t fall under that rule and walked away. Does that seem fair to anyone? I sure don’t think it right. Oh yeah, there was one more, how about Bill Britt with the real estate agent in Florida? Peggy had pictures of them making out in a car. She had all his finances froze for a bit too. I don’t know if they ended up divorced, but I remember cheering the fat man taking every word as gospel. I was told by upline to not look at any “negative” on the internet. If I found any to let him know so he could pass it on and let the amlawyers do their job. When I left, and I spoke to my former upline about Britt, she said he retired, funny.
    Actually I used the principles that was in the books to build a nice business and an actually retired now at 57, but not thru any MLM business, I can’t say I wasted my time, but I did have to face reality and it wasn’t pleasant. Even WWDB was run by humans, and they are far from perfect. The thing that bothers me is that they try to portray themselves as perfect. I can’t dis anyone defending amscay, they are just doing what they are programmed to do, just like I was. Either they will have their moment of truth, or they will build the business and find out by the time they are making so much money, they will have to compromise their own morals to keep it coming in, or leave. It’s the hardest decision I ever made to drop an emerald-level business and walk away. I turned to a different direction, and built a conventional business. I live on the sale price of that business that is invested. All of this is just one man’s opinion, use the “shopping cart method” and take what you can use, and don‘t be bothered by what you can‘t. I always wondered what would have happened if I built the business just off of selling the product. Terry Felber had a ruby level in his down line, that just sold products to industrial customers. The soap is attractive to places that have to worry about pollution, since a lot of it is bio-degradable. He had barrels of LOC moving thru his business, and lived quite comfortable on just the profits. I’d bet someone in sales could do this with ease.

  124. Dwayne Lizar permalink
    December 13, 2011 8:55 pm

    It’s a small walk from the mansion to the outhouse! What a crock this “business” is.

  125. Winner permalink
    December 27, 2011 10:54 pm

    Howie and Theresa Danzik have lost a ton of their big pins. Howie runs the business like it’s a turn ’em and burn ’em business. He is soooo egotistical it’s kind of funny actually. And Theresa is so smarmy and fake. I don’t know how anyone takes them seriously. They are like the high school jock and cheerleader who never really grew up and try to manipulate people into keeping them popular (unfortunately while taking all their money). I worked with them directly for years. So glad to be done with their fake business.

  126. Matt permalink
    March 4, 2012 9:07 pm

    Huh here’s one thing interesting about this…that’s NOT Brad Duncan’s voice…and there is no ACTUAL video of him talking…I’ve personally seen Brad several times, talked to the man, AND I’ve been to his house over in Spokane. I’ve listened to him on KATE and I know what Brad’s voice sounds like and THAT IS NOT IT. Just something I thought was interesting.

  127. April 16, 2012 11:32 am

    Old Mountain Man and Ken… Why don’t you put down your complete names and some proof of your claims instead of entertaining a hand full of critics who will more than likely struggle to be successful at any endeavor they pursue. They’ll likely quit, wet on themselves, and then blog about how immoral their next venture was.. When you blame you lose. You boys are all losing.

  128. 1formeribo permalink
    April 16, 2012 1:33 pm

    Timmy, you are fooling yourself. Most of what these guys have posted in public record. Even Greg Duncan’c bankruptcy is public records. Who don’t IBOs once and for prove that they are profitable?

  129. Mountain Man permalink
    April 16, 2012 3:41 pm

    Hi Timmy
    An honest question, and deserves an answer.
    The real and honest reason that I will not use my real name, is that I am set for life, if I don’t do anything stupid. If you are really interested, all you have to do is find a list of people that qualified for emerald, and quit before they got the pin. I am in there.
    The other reason is that anyone who runs one of these pages will tell you that if you dare to write anything remotely bad about scamway, their lawyers will start filing lawsuits against you, and you will waste you money in court defending your right of free speech against the goon squad.
    The bottom line is that your opinion of me is simply not worth my retirement to make you, or anyone else believe what I said. If you want the information, is out there on the internet.
    You can believe whatever you wish, I will never lose any sleep over it.

  130. alvie permalink
    June 13, 2012 1:43 am

    Chapter 7 for Greg? I thought most of his assets were under a corp which would require a chapter 13 to restructure your debt. When it comes to real estate you can return the collateral and the mortgage note be wiped out. Bankruptcy is nothing new to millionaires, remember the Trump filed BK for close to $1B. You can still declare BK even when receiving income. Not any different than if you make $100k annually and file BK because you owe monthly payments that exceed your monthly income and you have no chance to ever repay the debt.

    I am not an IBO, I used to be one, as much as WWDB may be a cult, the truth is anything you do to create incredible financial wealth will require you to act like you are in a cult – I run a software start-up and it requires me to be 24/7 about the growth of the company – between bootstrapping pitching Angel investors, making daily decision and just running the company – you have to think that way.

    In all your experiences it is your decision to chose what you take with you. I am greatful for what I learned but it’s just not what I want to do with my life.

  131. griffin12 permalink
    November 1, 2012 8:03 am

    I have read Paul Tsika’s book “get married, stay married” and my wife and I found it very helpful to read leading up to our wedding. The Tsika’s were very transparent in it talking about Pauls adultery that he committed. It seems like it would be very hard to write about that in a book that will be read by thousands of people. Can’t say whether he is goof or bad, it’s not my place to judge. All i know is the book was beneficial for my wife and me.

  132. Truthisnotpleasent permalink
    November 15, 2012 7:59 pm

    Everyone who posted comments on how WWDB is a scam or not succeeding, is blind
    Eithe because they failed personnely and were unable to build the business. This is common in lazy people. Another reason why is doubt! For any second you doubt yourself or your leader you deedify yourself and them!
    This causes failure!

    For anyone who thinks the know the truth about WWDB diamonds and the personnel problems is a joke, their people who are barely motivated and do not succeed at life because their pride gets in the way!

    I agree the timing is everything! It may have been the wrong time to build the business for you!

    Before you judge look at where you are and what your doing! If you are sitting in front of your computer complaining about other people? Enough said!

    You all play as individuals! You won’t see what a team is till you play as a teammate!

    If you read all of the congrats, you have an open mind! First step to success!

  133. Vogel permalink
    November 15, 2012 8:37 pm

    Brought to you by MLM Autobot v2.0.

    Seriously, was that a joke? Do humans really talk like that?

  134. EastCoastEH permalink
    November 15, 2012 9:45 pm

    Truthisnotpleasent, If I was your upline and handed you the greatest C.D ever that repeated over and over “jump off the bridge!” Where would you be now?

  135. truthisnotpleasant permalink
    November 16, 2012 7:24 pm

    You are highly mistaken of what I am representing! I did not say do everything your told, I am suggesting that instead of criticizing others for trying hard and willing to work! How about you do something of value!

    This is a final comment:
    I only sent this message in hope of others
    Reading it and then decide about what there doing and if they are happy with it! It’s a message to convey the fact that we are all happy doing different things. Sense some may not agree with what other people do or how they operate! You should not discourage other people from reaching what they MIGHT like doing, just because your ignorant and selfish.

    Thank you for everyone on who did not take an offence

  136. November 17, 2012 6:02 am

    @Truthisnotpleasent Did no ever tell you nothin’bout preaching hollow wisdom? Stick to your knitting. Jeez some folks never look up . . . until they are flat on their backs.

  137. November 17, 2012 6:04 am

    BTW what an irony in your choice of mlmbot drive-by handle.

  138. ExMLM, Willie permalink
    November 17, 2012 8:54 pm

    I find the Ambots comments funny. If they were really “plugged in” and following everything their upline teaches, they would not even be on this site. We were always told to not look up things on the internet unless our upline told us to. Not to fill our head with negative by reading anything about amscay or nixstar, especially if it was negative. Funny how they have to comment how “happy they are, and how they are really doing what it takes for their dream. They shouldn’t even have found this site in the first place!
    I dropped out after one of my married downline ladies kept bending over in front of me with no undies. She was caught by my wife doing this the second time, because I told my wife to watch and see if it was just my ego thinking this was happening. She told me that if it was my imagination, she would be wearing underwear, LOL. She went to church with her hubby and kids every week. I just wonder what book or tape said to flash your butt to your upline 🙂 I just didn’t want to get into this kind of mess. I’ve been married to a great Woman for 20 years now, and I won’t do anything to screw that up
    Another reason I quit was I was told flat out to lie to my downline about where the money really comes from. Another funny thing is that I had one man in my downline that was running Ruby volume and had no downline. He simple sold the product every month to industrial customers. He made more money on the mark-up of the goods then we did after doing all the silly meetings and such.

  139. November 17, 2012 9:15 pm

    Obviously your downline girl wasn’t being CORE because she wasn’t wearing business professional clothes (or undies LOL). Although inappropriate, I hope she was hot vs some oinker showing her cheese.

    $ is made in books, tapes (CDs now I’d hope) and functions. Retail is not what is preached at all, it’s all about building a business with prospecting… so that more people buy the books, tapes and go to functions.

  140. John permalink
    August 17, 2013 7:28 pm

    What a load of crap. If you want to impersonate Brad Duncan, find someone who can do his voice better. Just because the guy throws in “stinkin” and “fired up” a few times, it doesn’t make the impersonation any less weak.

    Seriously.. what is wrong with you people. Stop being turds, get off the computer, and go make something of yourselves. Nobody said you have to build the Amway business. Go shovel crap for all I care. Just stop excusing your failures by killing other people’s dreams.

  141. August 19, 2013 9:45 am


    We are trying to prevent those “dreams” from turning into “nightmares” before it costs more innocent people thousands of dollars. And make no mistake about it, the dream will turn into a nightmare for 99% of these people – the numbers don’t lie.

  142. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:21 pm

    Gotta love how all these guys play god and tell people what they think others “should”do with their lives as if they think we would jump their command. Hey, hey, hey haven’t you noticed we are FREE thinkers. 🙂

    Dream stealers, lazy, eh? Sounds just like the thousands of cds I heard and Im not even from your masters los.. Makin excuses for failures etc… all as old as Amways dirt. Bahahaha, have you checked your downlines profits vs loss statements lately, what about your own?

    Wish you guys would at least get creative, the rhetoric is alot like shovelin crap. This thread has given me some good laughs though, thanks a bunch!

  143. August 19, 2013 12:33 pm

    They are just different players in the same game that we all played years ago. Right now they can’t see the forest through the trees, they are newbies and, much like myself, have the biggest dreams in the world. But someday they will look back and wish they would’ve listened to those of us who’ve already gone through the minefield. It might take 2 weeks or 20 years, but eventually they will realize they were part of the 99.9% that don’t make it, regardless of how hard they think they are working it… and how many thousands of dollars and even worse… all the weeks, months and years of their life they wish they had back.

  144. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:36 pm

    Lettuce know after checking EVERYONE in your dowlines profit vs loss…who’s stealin whos dreams,…would ya? Warning……This will take some real honesty and facing some “brutal reality” though, you capable? …. “you can do it, we believe in ya!” 🙂

  145. Freedomhaha permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:44 pm

    Melaine- So far I have asked 42 contributors to this blog what percentage of their downline is making a profit. I have received ZERO responses to this date. Maybe I am writing in invisible ink?

  146. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:48 pm


    Amen! They may even wind up being grateful to this site,…that is after the hail pelts them hard enough and they realize the pot of gold they are being promised,is elusive.

    It’s possible they would see this site as source of support, who knows, but I do know this, those they follow and feel obligated to ‘edify’….won’t give them the time of day after they stop attending and spending their $$…that’s a given.

  147. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 12:50 pm

    Freedom haha-

    Bahahahaha, what a mystery! 🙂

  148. August 19, 2013 12:50 pm

    Lettuce? Really?

  149. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 1:31 pm

    What’s really twisted is they think just because people won’t do Amway, Team/Life (name of their MLM)…then everyone gave up on their “dreams”…absurd! Or as if they somehow are the suppliers of everyones dreams…(hence playing god).

    Not to mention the years lost, and not everyones “dreams” are based on $$ or founded in greed, and not everyone is willing to decieve others (hence after they find the truth, why the business isn’t for everyone), I realize people are bedazzled and can’t see the forest through the trees (we were one if them) but the TOP dogs know the odds …

    And if money were needed…I say first soul search find YOUR dream (not what they played you on) and then find an honest way to achieve your dreams.

    Youu will save yourself many years wasted on trusting people who lie to you to keep you in, a bad business model that drains you in everyway… go to least.the odds are better,…you won’t get your dreams on false hope, ….most people find a way and it isn’t in an MLM… the possibilites are endless keep seeking,…, but by their path at least for most 95-99 % sadly that will shatter their dreams and they will lose hope trying to recover from the losses in time & money…and so much more..

  150. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 1:32 pm

    Humor TH…:)

  151. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    August 19, 2013 2:37 pm

    While I gave my attempt at building the biz… I had this side thought that I could make more getting a newspaper route with customers that WANTED my product!
    My ‘little’ thought was a very good acid test… – The thing missing was the upline’s suggestion that the tap root would bring all kinds of wealth if you followed the system.
    NOW after a few years (post the Tm-M/V daze), a foundation of making a biz great is volume. THERE is impossible volume in MLM – unless you have:

    A top 6
    A next level of about 6 leaders each
    Massess of people to shuffle to keep the top 6 and those just below full of volume.

    You can NOT generate any volume without a product that give price breaks by selling more! The M/V was like $130 per case of 4 bottles, and both the Tm and M/V bragged how they were selling in the millions of bottles per month, yet the price never budged a CENT… AND how nice – through these rough times over the last 5 years – they have NOT even raised their price!

  152. Joecool permalink
    August 19, 2013 4:34 pm

    It’s ironic because it is the Amway diamonds who are stealing people dreams. Stealing those dreams one cd or one function at a time. It’s sad that those who are being fleeced think that people in the upline are helping and mentoring them. That’s the insidious part. These WWDB leaders aren’t asking for thousands of dollars upfront. It’s $8 here, or $125 there for a major function. After a year or more, those losses begin to mount. And that’s including time lost away from family and friends.

    If Brad Duncan was so wealthy, why didn’t he bail out his brother? What’s a few million when you’re rolling in dough?

  153. Melanie Morgan permalink
    August 19, 2013 5:00 pm


    Sad how they convince the people they are going to load up their right pockets to ‘achieve their dreams’….. while consitantly taking from their costantly taking from their left pocket and they have you so distracted you don’t see it disappearing to for the masses never return.


    And they like to say the “critics” never offer anything better? The paper route is a much better offer with profit. The first day!

  154. Winning TEAM permalink
    December 15, 2013 1:47 pm

    I remember when i was loser and quit amway and complained to everyone about my problems and said they were all tied to amway because that’s what quitters like me do, we blame everyone else for our marriage and money problems, Its super relieving for me. Thanks guys for letting me know how many other losers there are like me in the world ! 🙂 gosh did everyone else go out and fail at everything else in life they tried to pursue after amway like me 😉 ? i hope so !

  155. January 15, 2014 3:25 pm

    All of this is bulshit and non of this is true

  156. TheHub permalink
    January 15, 2014 4:52 pm

    @Opens… I’m convinced!! You’re deep level of conviction and factual evidence is overwhelming!! Where do I sign?

  157. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 15, 2014 6:54 pm


    Hahahahaha…reeeallly?…lame diversion tactic… 🙂

  158. Joecool permalink
    January 21, 2014 4:34 pm

    I wonder if anyone knows what is happening with Greg Duncan? I wonder if’s he’s recovered from bankruptcy or if he is still swimming in debt?

  159. Troll permalink
    February 1, 2014 8:29 pm

    It’s funny because people like you would probably creates websites like this about any business you attempted to build with some one else and quit. Responsibility lies within yourself. They business model makes perfect logical sense, multi billionaires including Donald trump endorse network marketing companies, and the business has an A+ rating with the BBB. So if it didn’t work for you, it’s your fault. Also, Greg Duncan went bankrupt from a case filed against him from people you. He won that case, by the way. Have fun retiring at 65! Possibly never retiring!

  160. TheHub permalink
    February 2, 2014 8:37 pm

    Yep, it’s our fault… quitting and failing in a business model where less than 1% of people make the good $. I think everyone on this site has, in one of Amthrax’s blogs, admitted that they quit and realized it was they themselves that quit and it was THEIR decision, and understand their responsibility. Yes, of course the business makes sense that it can work, but not like they claim, sorry. Why else would we have all gotten in? You have fun spending thousands of dollars on books, functions and CDs… only to find out later, after you’re broke, that we were right all along. Hey, by the way, do you have factual evidence that “we” caused Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy? Or is that just what “they” told you and naturally is the 100% complete truth as you know it? Soon, young Padawan, you will too learn that it’s not all YOU that is responsible in your failure.

  161. February 2, 2014 9:54 pm


  162. February 2, 2014 10:11 pm

    Can we please stop the “Donald Trump endorses MLMs” nonsense? This has bugged me for a while because 1) I initially bought it as fact 2) I’ve had 2 other people trying to con me into their MLMs with it.

    It’s the perfect Team (or any MLM) throwaway comment because it probably wouldn’t be disputed in a court of law (Trump endorses HIS Networking company that sells crap) but has hardly any relevance to LIFE or anything else not paying him. When you add it in the middle of a train of half-truths as Troll did, it is easily accepted and could possibly fool someone into thinking MLM is a legitimate opportunity that famously successful people take part in.

    If you Google Donald Trump Network Marketing, pick the 2nd result & read the blurb on that shyster Kyosaki’s pamphlet, Trump speaks in the vaguest of generalities & doublespeak about MLMs.

    If you anyone calls that an endorsement & use that in your pitch to con others into your group, you truly have a deceitful heart.

  163. Joecool permalink
    February 10, 2014 5:58 pm

    PJ, you’re right about Trump. But even if Trump did endorse something, that doesn’t mean it’s good. He could be paid to endorse various products using his name recognition as the pull. If he really thought network marketing was go great, why isn’t he doing it rather than talking about it.

    Kiyosaki is a huckster who sells seminars. He made his money selling books and seminars. The advice he gives in his books sounds ridiculous and I highly doubt that he’s made much money in real estate or network marketing. He’s also using name recognition to sell books and questionable advice to brainwashed Amway IBO’s.

  164. Mike aka OHIO NATIVE permalink
    April 9, 2014 10:34 am

    The first step of recovery is admitting or defining the PROBLEM. We were in a cult.

    FACT: There are such things as financial cults.
    This is one of them. A very big and sophisticated one. I need my mind deprogrammed from cult thinking.

    Deprogramming statements:

    Quitters in Amway are not losers, they are independent thinkers making intelligent rational decisions based on facts and not buying the deception.
    Mathematically speaking, the quitters are winners compared to over 99% of people in the business.

    REAL LOSERS bilk millions of dollars off of people that trust them using sophisticated mind control.
    REAL LOSERS are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    LOSERS say don’t let anyone steal your dream. WINNERS say don’t let anyone steal your money.

    They say don’t believe negative information. WE say negative is an opinion, however FACTS ARE FACTS.

    They say don’t associate with people who don’t support your business. WE say don’t associate with con-men and liars.

    They say we love you. WE say no you don’t, you are trying to take financial advantage of us.

    They say we only make money if we help you make money. WE say you only make money if 99% of your downline LOSES money.

    They say you can be free. WE say you are not free so you cannot teach US to be free.

    They say you can do it. WE say we refuse to take advantage of people.

    They say you can be RICH. WE say not if it means turning into con-men and liars.

    They say they are Christians. WE say you run an extremely high risk of God telling you that He never knew you.

    They say look how many people came to the Lord because of us. WE say cults attempt to use God to justify their crimes.

    They say get out of debt. WE say your tools business INTENTIONALLY DRIVES VICTIMS deeper into debt.

    They say don’t miss the next big meeting. WE say you are promoting another MONEY STEALING event.

    They say there is no risk. WE say that YOU are the RISK.

    They say that winners never quit. WE say winners QUIT repeating the same mistakes.

    They say the quitters never win. WE say that the quitters immediately win 99% of the time. And the other 1% are crooks.

    They say 95% of all people don’t win in life. WE say that those are better odds than you are offering.

    They say that this is not illegal. WE say that it needs to be made illegal but our legal system is too corrupt to do what is right.

    They say that this is not a cult. WE say than how do you steal millions of dollars off of people that keep losing thousands of dollars each year without using sophisticated mind control?

    I’m OUT of this cult.


  165. TruthSeeker permalink
    April 9, 2014 9:57 pm

    OHIO NATIVE, excellent post, and spot on as well. Thanks!

  166. Melanie Morgan permalink
    April 10, 2014 6:51 am


    Excellent!!! We could all add thousands more of those truths, THANK YOU! Would love to have a conversation with you privately sometime. Look me up on FB if you are open to it. Glad you are FREE and OUT!

  167. freedomhaha permalink
    April 10, 2014 11:00 am

    Mike- Amen

  168. Vogel permalink
    April 11, 2014 8:27 am

    Kudos Mike. Shout it from the mountain top for all to hear.

  169. Tony permalink
    April 11, 2014 8:55 am

    I’m just waiting for those still in the forest to come to their own defense. We all know that that odds are they will wish they would’ve listened to Mike from the beginning.

  170. Jake from state farm permalink
    August 11, 2014 11:24 pm

    I too was in the WWDB cult, but was even more stupid than most….in for 20 years! Brain washed? remember the saying…most people need their brains washed! broke? yup, delcared bankruptcy, and got divorced as well. Guess I just didn’t believe enough. Now I am happy, in love with a great gal, and working to put together the retirement I “should have had” with WWDB.

  171. August 12, 2014 8:09 am

    @Jake from state farm – thanks for your comment and story. What was the straw that broke the proverbial back for you? What ultimately caused you to realize that after 20 years, it wasn’t working? Did you leave WWDB relatively recently?

  172. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    August 12, 2014 8:18 am

    Now that Jake is free he can afford to wear khakis.

  173. Tony permalink
    August 12, 2014 8:34 am

    Congrats Jake.. From State Farm (love that commercial). I too would like to hear more of your story. Which line of sponsorship (LOS)? What kept you going for 20yrs? What was the straw that broke the camel’s back?

  174. Amway permalink
    August 30, 2015 8:06 pm

    See, here is the thing. I would love to believe every single one of these negative comments, I truly do. But, I grew up in this business, I physically saw my parents become successful. Not only did I see my parents become successful I saw their family friends dare I say it, break diamond! Not only did they break diamond, the other one became one of the highest diamonds and I saw all of this. So, while I read these comments, and they are convincing I have physical proof this works.

    I asked my dad, is this business for real before I actually joined. My dad no longer does the business because he had other ambitions, and he used what he learned from the business to become successful in his business. So I asked him to please not lie to me, and just be realistic. He said yes the business is for real, but the thing is, not everyone is meant to do this business, a lot of people do FAIL at this business. He saw people over spend their money, he saw people go bankrupt all because they wanted to reach the next level. The only way people actually built the business correctly, was being smart about everything they did. He did say, only 2% of the people truly succeed in the business, and 1% actually become beyond successful. He kept telling me, this is a beyond difficult business. But, then again, he said any business you own is difficult, you do need to work hard and smart!

    So, do I believe this business is legit, ABSOLUTELY!!!! But, many people will NOT be successful, and the reason I decided to ignore many negative comments, it is because I have found people only take the time to write negative comments. This is the same for YELP. I cannot trust YELP, because I have been to places that had 3 or 2 star reviews and LOVED it. I have worked in a luxury hotel downtown San Diego, and found people just have negative opinions about everything. So, in all honesty, be realistic about this business. It is NOT for everybody, and not everyone who does this business will be financially free. BE SMART! But, I will say WWDB has done wonders for my marriage and personal character as well.

  175. Joecool permalink
    August 31, 2015 4:17 pm

    Sort of like a lottery winner saying the lottery works because you can see many winners. Never mind the tens of millions that lost.

  176. LionChaser permalink
    September 2, 2015 8:05 pm

    Hey Amway,

    Forget “beyond successful” statistics for a minute. How many people in your dad’s downline -or yours if you are old enough to have one – are PROFITABLE?

    How many of them for that matter even know how to produce a P&L on their “business”?

    It’s like this man, I’ve met people like your dad who worked fast and hard to buy a bunch of people in and got lucky enough to make a buck that they then used to build some other business. And they have no problem with the fact that 99.999% of their downline LOST money. They excuse it by saying “well, only 1-2% will work hard enough to be successful”. I find this beyond sickening, because they often are fully aware that had many of those same people applied that same amount of effort into so much as a job waiting tables they would have thousands more dollars to show for it.

    To not acknowledge that fact it to seat your own conscience and its why to this day I refuse to do business with or even recommend any “business person” that made their first money in a business like this. If they can’t bring themselves to repentance for this then they’ll certainly not have trouble perpetrating a new fraud on someone else.

  177. LionChaser permalink
    September 2, 2015 8:08 pm

    Sear* your own conscience…

  178. Amway permalink
    September 5, 2015 2:37 pm

    Here is where WWDB went wrong, they never taught people the importance of budgeting their money. For example, my dad had people in their business over spend and yes lose lots of money. My dad didn’t necessarily get “lucky”, he honestly just understood business which is why he is still successful in his car rental business. But same with everything right? Not everybody becomes rich and successful at any business for that matter. Which is why they are considered the 1%, you know what I mean? I am a youth pastor full time, and how many youth pastors are out there? A lot, and not everybody has 400 kids in their youth group, some literally have 3. But, they enjoy what they do. I enjoy WWDB, will I ever make Diamond? Who knows! But, I do see a great opportunity with this business, and I have seen many many many of my friends do well in this business. Does it make sense what I am trying to get across?

  179. Amway permalink
    September 5, 2015 3:08 pm

    But to answer your question, I would say 65% people in my dads business did decent.

  180. September 5, 2015 3:47 pm

    So who is your dad then? Let us verify whether what you say can be taken seriously or not.

  181. September 5, 2015 3:48 pm

    If it’s not too much trouble, perhaps you could also define what doing “decent” in Amway means.

  182. Tony permalink
    September 5, 2015 3:52 pm

    Of course WWDB didn’t teach their leaders to teach budgeting. How else do you think the ‘leaders’ make their money? On getting people to buy books, tapes/CDs, Amvox, go to functions (local and major), etc. This is where the ‘leaders’ make lots of their money (and speaking). There’s no way that 65% of your dad’s downline did ‘decent’. And what do you define as ‘decent’? There is no Diamond, or any level for that matter, that had a 65% success rate… in WWDB, Amway, Britt, Yeager, or I’m sure any other MLM that can claim that.

  183. September 9, 2015 9:32 am

    Amway, any chance you’re going to respond to my reasonably innocuous questions?

  184. The Dream Is ALive permalink
    April 8, 2016 11:44 am

    Pathetic how people will blame their failure upon anyone besides themselves. Must be the same people that will ask for a refund after scratching a losing ticket. smh . How are you gonna let the actions of a few individuals be responsible for your results. I’m A Dream Builder and the Dream is Alive and Well. 🙂 Young Bui dream builder from slc utah .

  185. Joecool permalink
    April 12, 2016 4:52 pm

    The Amway leaders are so good at brainwashing people that the IBO’s all blame themselves for failure even when they have done everything that upline advised.

    So do your dreams include the losses you are suffering right now?

  186. Mike permalink
    September 27, 2016 7:04 pm

    Funny how the video doesn’t exist.

  187. Malachy Smith permalink
    October 16, 2016 7:38 pm

    Greg was involved in a multimillion dollar lawsuit & took out mortgages to pay the legal bills.

  188. November 7, 2016 6:29 pm

    T.O.D. Team Quixtar… Blah Blah Simply Put Will Take Your Money, Your Basically Joining A Social Club & Filling Your Trunk With Overpriced Items…. Watch This John Oliver Episode..

  189. freedomhaha permalink
    November 8, 2016 4:41 pm

    +1 I was hoping someone would post this. The whole time I was really hoping that Orrin and crew would pop up, but I guess they aren’t even popular enough for that.

  190. Malachy Smith permalink
    November 8, 2016 8:29 pm

    It’s called a LAWSUIT. ($9,000,000 LAWSUIT)
    YOU got money to pay that? No. So he mortgaged his houses to PAY for it!!

  191. Ex-Team permalink
    November 16, 2016 5:57 am

    The video above is simply awesome. Could not stop laughing (or crying at my past stupidity)….

  192. Jeff permalink
    September 10, 2017 11:35 pm

    You know what? You guys have nothing better to do to say Blah Blah amway doesnt work! So you are telling me when i look at amways revenues and BBB rating, which is A+ that it doesnt work and is a pyramid scheme? What about social security, thats a pyramid scheme if you think about it…Theres even a pyramid a the one dollar bill!!!.Theres legal and illegal pyramid scheme and amway started over 50 years ago???? Dont you think if it was illegal that it would be out of business???? Duh!!! The only people I think say negative stuff about amway is because they didnt probably tried it and failed or that they are losing money in their business due to amway. Have you seen all the affiliations that stand with amway?…..Home depot and Starbucks…..Hmmmm use your brains dummies, get a life, and I will think about you when i reach diamond and laying on a beach in hawaii sipping on a margarita…….NOT!!

  193. exTEAMster permalink
    October 4, 2017 10:23 am

    Quite the original reply, Jeff. Did you come up with the Social Security analogy all on your own? Probably not, since that’s right out of the “How To Respond To Anyone Who Criticizes MLMs” playbook. As is the “the business didn’t fail you, you failed the business” response. MLMs don’t succeed because of the rapid expansion of new customers, they succeed by replenishing just enough of the turnover at the bottom. You need lots of new people because they’re the ones with families and friends who buy out of courtesy to a new distributor, but don’t stay on as a customer, causing the distributor’s customer base to eventually dry up, and the distributor eventually leaves. Checkout the turnover rates of any MLM. In theory, if everything worked the way MLMs claim they will, and with how long Amway has been in business, there should be people retired on every block from what they earned in the business. Not to say there isn’t a way to make a few extra bucks by doing it, and if you truly like the products, by all means support them and encourage others to do the same. But the recruiting of new IBOs is a high-risk, low-reward enterprise

  194. Joecool permalink
    November 20, 2017 3:47 pm

    I guess Jeff never bothered t look at Amway revenues. It’s down about 25% since 2014. It peaked at 11.8 billion in 2014 and 2016 numbers were down to 8.8 billion.

  195. Malachy Smith permalink
    November 20, 2017 7:42 pm

    Totally wrong. First off Greg took out loans against his houses to pay off a lawsuit cost (you get sued by people when you’re rich).

    Second. Amway revenues in North America are actually up over 30%. The down turn is in Asia. (Why don’t you actually do research and learn facts before spewing garbage?)

    Currently wwdb is experiencing a surge in function attendance with some locations selling out & no room for free guest tickets .

  196. Malachy Smith permalink
    November 20, 2017 7:51 pm

    Wrong figures. (geez you people can’t even get the figures straight white trying to slam figures??)

    10.8 in 2014. NOT 11.3.
    9.5 in 2015
    8.8 in 2016.

    Barely a 20% decline in 2 years due to overseas exchange rates (you probably didn’t hear of China manipulating their currency eh boss?)

  197. Joecool permalink
    April 24, 2018 12:09 pm

    Amway topped at 11.8 billion in 2013. This can easily be verified with a google search.

    That’s about a 25% decline down to 8.8 billion in 2016 and then another small decline to 8.6 billion in 2017.

    Less revenue = less bonuses = less diamonds and other higher up pins.

  198. April 24, 2018 12:14 pm

    Yeah. There’s less revenue. But they just increased the leadership bonus from 4% to 6%

    (Do you even know what the leadership bonus is?)

  199. Joecool permalink
    April 25, 2018 9:30 am

    Wow, they increased the leadership bonus? You mean the bonus that only a fraction of 1% of IBOs ever receive?

    It’s no skin off Amway’s back. They get the bonus money from overcharging IBOs for products.

  200. April 25, 2018 5:22 pm

    Uhm. No. (Obviously you don’t know how the network is built or how they compensate)
    They don’t discriminate or make it for “just a few”. I gotta help you earn $50,000 a year so I can get that 6% royalty. (About $1500 a month or more).

  201. Joecool permalink
    April 26, 2018 8:54 am

    Amway’s own stats ( shows that platinums make up .26%, or about 1 in 400 IBOs. Tell me how a leadership bonus is offered to more than 1% of people who build the business.

    You obviously don’t know how business works and you obviously cannot properly evaluate a business plan or you would avoid Amway.

    Tell me, have YOU earned a leadership bonus? If not, why not?

  202. April 26, 2018 11:27 am

    Dude it’s based on how you build your business.

    When Ron Puryears own sons went for their (all expenses paid) platimum seminar they found guys with 300+ ibos per business

    The Puryears had between 100-150 in their platimum businesses.

    IF you’ve seen the plan, BTW, you’d know that each IBO is responsible for 50 pv of customer volume in order to receive a wholesale bonus on network volume.

    IF you are using all your own product that you need every month it’s almost impossible not to do 100 PV.

    Platimum volume is 7500 PV (do you even know what a PV is?)

    Do the math.

    (And even if you DO get 300 people in one platimum business they are all still making money off their own purchases (* Safeway doesn’t pay you to shop & neither does Costco) and any customer volume (* retail profit is 20-40 % average around 35% BTW) and anywhere from 3% to 25 % wholesale bonuses if they hit the minimum 100 PV and have 50 PV in customer volume).

    Nobody is ENTITLED to that 6% bonus. It is for LEADERS who have developed themselves and helped somebody else earn $50,000. A year.

    Yes I have to help YOU make 25% for me to make 6%. (And you think that’s unfair?? SMH 🙄)

  203. Joecool permalink
    April 27, 2018 8:56 am

    Thank you. You just confirmed my claim that less than 1% of people are plaitnums and earn your “leadership bonus. The Puryears found guys with 300+ IBOs in their business. That’s a fraction of 1%. The rest are losing money if they are buying standing orders and attending functions. And the 300 IBOs don’t includes the hoards who are quitting on a daily basis.

    You also perpetuate a myth. “”they are all still making money off their own purchases””
    Nobody makes money off their own purchases. If you purchase something from yourself, the money came out of your own pocket. Even if you eared a “bonus” from Amway buying your own stuff, the bonus came out of your own pocket. Amway overcharges for the products an returns a small portion only if you reach a quota (100 PV). Amway’s not giving bonuses out of the goodness of their hearts. You pay for your own bonus. You are simply a customer of Amway.

    Safeway or Costco doesn’t pay you. That’s true but Safeway and Costco don’t overcharge you in order to pay bonuses to middle men like Amway. But on the other hand, I can use a cash back credit card and get some money back off my purchases regardless of how much I spend each month.

    Even if you were to help someone earn 25%, that person’s downline would be losing money because of the standing orders and functions. All you do is create groups that collectively was losing money, even if 1 person might make “some” money.

  204. malachy smith permalink
    April 27, 2018 11:35 am

    No. Dude.  You MISSED IT!(Goes to show how little you know about the most successful network marketing model in history ).. How much (percentage) does a platinum make?  How many bonus checks does a platinum need to pay out in order to be profitable?   What is the Ruby bonus?.. How much is the founders bonus? What exactly is the 6% leadership bonus?

    Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  205. Joecool permalink
    April 30, 2018 8:45 am

    LOL. Who cares? So few people earn those bonuses that knowing how the actual bonus structure works is useless. I don’t know how much money Bill Gates has but I can still invest in Microsoft and make money. The number of bonus checks a platinum pays out is still not a concrete argument because someone can pay out a lot of checks but have most of their volume down one leg and not be very profitable. Someone could have fewer bonus checks paid out but their structure is more balanced, leaving them with more profit.

    You are fixated on the bonus payout because you aren’t able to make a cogent argument as to why Amway is supposed to be a good business opportunity. And the fact is that Amway says .26 of their distributors reach the gold level, which is about 1 in 400 IBOs.

    When you factor in tools, the vast majority of (active) IBOs are losing money, regardless of any bonus structure.

  206. April 30, 2018 10:26 pm

    So then? WHY do YOU CARE A something of which you are totally ignorant?

    Wanna talk about the HUNDREDS and thousands of people who have gotten out of debt from building their own successful business?

    The fact that I would get a 6% royalty from a business that helped mom come home from her job or helped them pay off student loans is a problem for you??

    Get a LIFE

  207. April 30, 2018 10:27 pm

    So then? WHY do YOU CARE A something of which you are totally ignorant?

    Wanna talk about the HUNDREDS and thousands of people who have gotten out of debt from building their own successful business?

    The fact that I would get a 6% royalty from a business that helped mom come home from her job or helped them pay off student loans is a problem for you??

    Get a CLUE

  208. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 8:42 am

    Can you provide any evidence that hundreds of thousands of people got out of debt due to their Amway business? I bet not.

    But even if that were true, there might be tens of millions who got into dent because of an Amway business.

    Why do I care? Because people like you are promoting false hopes and dreams which result in broken hopes and dreams for the vast majority of people.

    Amway is like promoting a lottery as a good investment because “some” people make money off it.

  209. May 1, 2018 9:27 am

    I SAID “hundreds AND thousands”.

    I’ll bet you Brad Duncan alone (directly or indirectly) has helped THOUSANDS in his business pay off debts and HUNDREDS get job free and several dozen became millionaires..

    Ever hear of Tracey Eaton?

    NFL retired. Became a stock broker and ended up broker with $400,000 in dent. Had to sell his house. Replaced his NFL income many times over. Debt free and paid cash for a house on the river. (No job. Those are for broke people).

  210. May 1, 2018 9:31 am

    NOBODY “got into debt because of Amway”.
    That’s stupid…(how does one do that 🤔)

    “Tens of millions”? (There aren’t even “tens of millions” in IBO registrations)

    Why don’t you concentrate on learning the FACTS instead of spewing random hate and stupid rumors.

  211. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 9:44 am

    Nobody got into debt because of Amway? Newbie signs up and gets told that “tools are optional but so is success”. That person can certainly get into debt very easily.

    Tens of millions. Exactly! Amway’s been around nearly 60 years. Of course there are tens of millions of former Amway IBOs. The vast majority of these IBOs made nothing or lost money.

    These are facts,

    What are rumors are the alleged people who built Amway, walked away and are living on residual income. Maybe you’d like to be the first one to identify one of these Amway diamonds who did this?

    Can you even prove that you yourself made a net profit or are you spewing random hate and falsehoods?

  212. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 9:45 am

    “”I SAID “hundreds AND thousands”.””

    Ok, fair enough. But since Amway’s been around nearly 60 years and tens of millions of IBOs have come and gone, hundreds or thousands of alleged success stories is a tiny fraction of 1%. You may as well promote the lottery as a good way to earn a living.

  213. May 1, 2018 9:52 am

    Dude you are amusing me (with your made up facts & random hypotheses).

    There have not been (in the 50+ years of Amway) even ten million IBO registrations world wide. ..
    As for me at the moment I’m focused on North America where most of wwdb is.

    Function attendance? Exploding (had to find a larger facility in Las Vegas this year)

    Corporate stats showed a double digit INCREASE in volume % in the North America market over previous year.

    Again. I save $60-100 per month minimum as a single (no wife or kids in my house) just buying wholesale. (This does not include the 25-35% profit on customer orders or wholesale bonuses I might earn). I get unlimited downloads & streaming of audio & video files (for $75 a month). So how again do I go into debt?? 🤔

  214. May 1, 2018 9:55 am

    AGAIN you use made up (imaginary) statistics.

    (And what do YOU promote for a living? Jobs??)

  215. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:00 am

    You’re mistaken. The US alone has about 300,000 IBOs. In 50 years, that would be 15 million in only 50 years and that’s only the US, AND Amway has been around nearly 60 years. Do the math, although Amway people usually struggle with it. When you factor in IBOs worldwide, Amway has gone through tens of millions of IBOs.

    Function attendance exploding? Really?

    2013 Amway revenue 11.8 billion
    2014 Amway revenue 10.8 billion
    2015 Amway revenue 9.5 billion
    2016 Amway revenue 8.8 billion
    2017 Amway revenue 8.6 billlion

    Where is all this growth coming with Amway in a downward spiral?

    How do you save $60 to $100 a month when Amway products (on average) cost more than similar products at retailers?

  216. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:02 am

    I don’t promote anything. I’m retired very comfortably and I use some of my spare time exposing the truth about your wonderful business.

  217. May 1, 2018 10:10 am

    Okay. “300,000”. (what “tens of millions”?)
    I’m not even concerned with what’s happening in China or India.
    Dude I’m in Silicon Valley where the average house costs a million dollars .
    I help people keep up with the rising cost of living (& yes get rid of their job if they choose to).

    Should Brad Duncan have stated a broke carpenter? (REALLY??).

    He’s teaching his own son how to be a millionaire and HE’S now made six figures
    . Glenn & Joya Baker just coached and mentored their own son Trevor to a seven figures income.

    What are YOU doing with your life that I should listen to or follow you?

    I have a business to build. See you later (I haven’t had a boss for four years. Don’t have a job. Don’t want one.

  218. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:21 am

    Hey Malachy,

    How’s Greg Duncan doing these days? Is he recovered from his chapter 7 bankruptcy?
    Is he teaching downline how to go bankrupt? LOL

    What am I doing that you should listen to me? Well, if that matters to you, I am permanently retired at the age of 55 and I own 2 houses on Oahu (in Hawaii), both paid off and one producing passive rental income to supplement my pension.

    I also spend time researching and investing in stocks. Purchasing Amazon stocks a number of years ago has been very very good to me. 🙂

    I spend my time traveling and enjoying life. I live near Lanikai Beach, one of the nicest beaches in the world. Maybe I’ll go there and have lunch on the beach since the weather is great today.

    You need to understand that being financially stable doesn’t require Amway.

  219. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:23 am

    By the way, how would you know whether Duncan’s or the Baker’s son has a 7 figure income? I’m sure they aren’t disclosing those financials to you. Or are you taking their word for it because they say it at a function?

  220. May 1, 2018 10:27 am

    Well good for you. Matt & Sandee Tsuruda are renovating their new house on the north shore (meanwhile they’re renting another one for $20,000 a month)

    Matt bought his first house (in kahala ) at 26 years old (after retiring from his job at 23).

    So how are most 26 year olds doing on Oahu? 🤔

    (His sister & brother and law keep a home at koalina and spend four months of the year there and just renovated a new house in Colorado springs. He paid of $100,000 in student loans three years into his Amway business and sold his P/T practice when he was in his 20s.

    Not bad eh 🤔

  221. May 1, 2018 10:30 am

    Matt Tsuruda was permanently retired at 23.
    Just sold his house on Hawaii loa ridge & bought a property on the north shore which they are renovating

    He’s been free for over 25 years.

    Not bad eh?

  222. May 1, 2018 10:34 am

    Uhm. I sat in a meeting (scared of people & skeptical) until Glen Baker mentioned his son went from making $7500 a month to making over $75,000 a month. (For that kind of income I can be unscared).

    He just cleared 7 figure income at double diamond last year

    (What was he supposed to do stay in a $30,000 job and have his wife working as a waitress?)

  223. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:40 am

    Why is Matt selling his “mansion” and living in a rural and cheap neighborhood? Maybe he can’t afford Hawaii Loa ridge?

  224. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:41 am

    Well if Glen Baker “mentioned” that his son is making 7 figures, how can anyone argue with that kind of bonafide proof? LOL

  225. May 1, 2018 10:44 am

    Actually no. He’s selling his house overlooking diamond Head & cocohead and buying a larger property with some land right on the water.
    Doesn’t need to live in town. He doesn’t have a j j j job.

    (Did I mention he’s in the meantime renting a house for $20,000 a month while they make improvements on the new property?)

  226. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:45 am

    All nice stories told by the diamonds without any evidence. Think about it, it Matt Tsuruda was a diamond making $200K or whatever figure a diamond makes, he certainly is not buying a multi million dollar home and he isn’t paying for it in cash. And I might add that the diamond income is gross and not net income. You still have business expenses and taxes to pay.

    I notice you ignored the fact that Greg Duncan filed chapter 7 bankruptcy and in his financial listings, there was nothing given to charity, and he had credit card debt and unpaid taxes to the IRS. Any explanation?

  227. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:46 am

    LOL. I doubt that Matt can afford $20,000 a month. Nice thought though.

  228. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 10:48 am

    I know the area where Matt is allegedly living in Waialua. It’s cheap farmland and it’s a long and winding drive to get to downtown where most meetings and functions are held. I’m sure it’s because he wants to live in the boonies instead of a luxury condo near all the action. LOL

  229. May 1, 2018 10:51 am

    Dude he’s made way more than $200,000 for years. (More like 4-5 x that amount)..

    I know his mom and dad and brother personally.
    (These aren’t “stories” I heard on tape or on stage)..

    His brother in law was broke and in debt making $200,000 as a p/t.
    He paid off his debts with income from his amway business and of course retired from physical therapy while still in his 20s (and doesn’t miss it!). He makes WAY more than that now. (btw you can’t own 3 houses and an airplane on $200,000 a year)..

    Did I mention they spend 4 MOS a year at their coalina house (or koalina however you spell it) and the rest of the year at their Colorado springs house?

    Did you retire at 28? ,🤔

  230. May 1, 2018 10:56 am

    I don’t know Jack about Greg Duncan (& I don’t care).

    There was a lawsuit involved so he had to mortgage his houses to pay the legal fees.

  231. May 1, 2018 10:58 am

    Uhm. Yeah. I know his family personally.
    That’s what he’s doing. Renting while renovating. $20,000 a month for rent.

    Raised 4 kids no job.
    .is that a bad thing??

  232. May 1, 2018 11:00 am

    Joe I’m sure YOU cannot afford $20,000 a month although I congratulate you on doing better than most people with investing on income property.

  233. May 1, 2018 11:11 am

    Nope. That’s not it. (Functions are once or twice a month. His business is all over the US not just in Honolulu)

    Luxury condo?

    Who owns the penthouse at Bellevue Washington? Brad Duncan. Bought a Bentley for his wife. She bought him a Ferrari.

    (What was he supposed to do? Remain a broke construction worker??)

  234. May 1, 2018 11:21 am

    It’s between Haleiwa and Wailua.

    And it’s ocean front acres not “cheap farm land”

    (Do you live in an ocean Front spread??)

  235. May 1, 2018 11:26 am

    I’m sure you could not afford the property he bought, nor the $20,000 in rental he’s living in while they build & renovate the property.

  236. May 1, 2018 11:51 am

    Just because you can’t doesn’t mean he can’t 😉

  237. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 12:51 pm

    I’m from Oahu. Between Haleiwa and Waialua is mostly former agriculture land and its’ cheaper than most of Oahu because it’s is the boonies.

    How do you know these folks are renting a place for $20,000 a month? That’s nearly a quarter of a million dollars in take home pay.

    During Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy, Greg (A triple diamond) was making about $40,000 a month from Amway. Matt is not a triple diamond so more than likely he makes mush less than what Greg was making. The likelihood of him paying $20K a month to rent a place while building some mansion elsewhere is slim to none.

    Many areas in Waialua, you can’t own beach front property because it’s just ocean and a road. The government/military owns a lot of that area for testing and training. A lot of the available land is former cane fields and that’s why the property is cheap.

  238. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 12:53 pm

    Funny how you make income claims about people when in fact you haven’t sat down and reviewed their personal income statements or tax returns. You are just taking their word for it.

    Funny how you know about Brad Duncan but you know “jack” about Greg Duncan and his personal bankruptcy.

  239. malachy smith permalink
    May 1, 2018 12:58 pm

    Dude Matt was making $90,000 a month as an EDC. (HIS mentor Mike Woods said “I would be depressed if all I made was 90,000”). And , yes, lots of people I know (tons in the over priced Silicon Valley) would actually prefer a house out there in the open instead of the overcrowding city.  (That’s for JOB people who can’t afford to move away).. So, yeah.  (And how did you know of Greg’s $40,000 income at tripple diamond BTW? 🤔) Diamonds EDC and double & triple diamonds make WAY more than MOST job people. You never made $40,000 a month 

    Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

  240. May 1, 2018 1:02 pm

    Greg Duncan “only made” $40,000 a month?

    (So I guess Brad Duncan shouldn’t have listened to him and remained a broke construction worker right? 🤔)

    You NEVER made $40,000 a month.

    Matt & Sandee have made over $90,000 a month for YEARS. (SO. yeah. They can afford some ACRES on the ocean front property and rent for $20,000 a month while they rennovate their large home on the north shore).

  241. May 1, 2018 1:46 pm

    I guess that means Beach/ ocean front property is hard to come by (& that means it’s NOT “cheap”. We’re not talking about a little shack on a corner somewhere).

    It is a large piece of land (and yes I’ve seen the images it does go right down to the ocean).

    And who should I listen to concerning what Matt Tsuruda can afford or where he lives? You or his brother?..
    Matt knows me personally and has called me in my cell and met with me privately.
    I’ve driven him personally to meetings in San Diego from Los Angeles.

  242. May 1, 2018 1:49 pm

    I know Matt and his wife personally . Met with then in private and driven Matt to meetings in San Diego in my car from Los Angeles.
    He has my cell phone number.

    His brother Ken is my mentor.

    (So who should I listen to you? Or the family whom I know personally).

    I’ve seen the images from Matt’s ocean front property.

  243. May 1, 2018 2:31 pm

    So. Can you afford a 2.5 acres property?

  244. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 3:16 pm

    Again, how do you know how much Matt was making? Did you see his financial statements? Maybe he made a good income but I highly doubt it’s anywhere near what you think it is.

    Greg Duncan was a triple diamond and he made $40k a month from Amway. Matt is not close to being a triple diamond. So obviously Matt makes less than Greg.

    And yeah, Greg Duncan was making $40k from Amway each month. Great income. But tell me why he had multiple properties foreclosed, he had credit card debt and he owed a lot of back taxes. He obviously could not manage his money.

  245. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 3:18 pm

    This isn’t about what I make. This is what you claim these Amway folks are making. I never made any claims about earning $90k per month. Those are claims you made but cannot prove other than your statements here.

  246. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 3:19 pm

    By the way, you can read about Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy on this very website. 🙂

  247. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 3:27 pm

    One thing that Amway and WWDB don’t do is list who is currently qualified as a diamond or higher so we don’t even know if Matt is still a qualified diamond or not.

    Why is he running a life coaching business when he’s raking it in from Amway?

  248. May 1, 2018 3:27 pm

    So you know so much about what diamonds make and how the compensation plan works why aren’t you a diamond? (Says on another blog you were a “NOT profitable 4000).

    I know you’ve never made close to $40,000a month. ..

    Jealous much?

  249. May 1, 2018 3:37 pm

    Greg Duncan had a lawsuit and mortgaged his homes to pay the legal fees.

    Also had other business ventures he may have lost money on.

    Dude you NEVER made $40,000 a month
    (& Neither $90,000 a month).
    And yes, a Executive Diamond could out earn a double diamond. It’s all based on structure, depth and how many profitable platinums are in each leg. Matt coached his own sister to a $300,000 income as well as his own brother to an emerald income who helped his dad and mom make $165,000 as rubies.

    (Guess they all should a stayed as a manager at a job or an insurance agent ha? Yeah Matt sure scammed his family 😉😂😉)
    I’d be mad if my brother scammed me into making $300,000 a year

  250. May 1, 2018 3:50 pm

    And “how do you know how much he made. Did you see his financial statements”?
    Just because GD made supposedly only $40,000 a month doesn’t have any bearing on what Matt Tsuruda made.

    His brother is like one of my best friends. I’ve known the family for over 25 years.

    So far I see you complaining about/ criticizing those who’ve accomplished WAY more than you ever have or will (something which, admittedly, you yourself could NOT do )

    Have a good night Mr 4000 PV 😂😂🤣

  251. May 1, 2018 3:55 pm

    Well if YOU don’t make $40,000 a month then you have no business criticizing those who do
    That’s why your income matters.
    I’ll be happy to listen to those who’ve made more money in a month than you make in a year.

    (So do you have 2.5 acres?🤔)

  252. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 4:19 pm

    I don’t have to earn more than $40,000 a month in order to be able to evaluate and reason that Amway is a scam. Just because a few guys make $40k a month or more doesn’t mean Amway is a good business for most people.

    Some people win the lottery and get tons of cash but the rest of the lottery players lose money. Same with Amway. Matt might make a nice income but his downlines are losing money because of standing orders and functions.

    You talk about accomplishments but I see them as the biggest scammers. They sell false hopes and dreams to vulnerable people who want to believe that Amway can deliver their dreams.

    Matt Tsuruda and the Duncans have been diamonds for over 20 years. Where’s all the newer and young diamonds that they raised up? I notice you don’t mention any of that. That’s because there are few successes to speak of. The WWDB tree is bare, no fruit.

  253. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 4:20 pm

    Why does Matt need to advertise his life coaching business if he makes so much from Amway?

  254. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 4:22 pm

    How much have YOU made from Amway? A net loss?

  255. May 1, 2018 4:52 pm

    Dude you’re sour grapes because YOU couldn’t do it!

    WHERE is the scam in getting wholesale access to EXCLUSIVE products you can’t get anywhere else?

    Is it a scam to make 25-30% on my customer orders? (They call or text me & ask for it)

    Is it a scam to get 3%- 25% or more in wholesale bonuses?

    Is it a scam for me to help you get to 25% & me receiving a 6% royalty paid by the company?

    (BTW that monthly income you claimed was only $40,000 did NOT include quarterly & annual bonuses.)

    So Amway expert do you know what profit sharing is? How about the founders bonus? Can you explain that?
    What is platinum plus?

    What is the Ruby bonus?
    Can you explain the diamond incentive?
    Did you know GDuncan qualified for the NAGC bonus? (Do you know what that is?)

    Like I said I’m personal long time friends with Matt’s brother.
    (I think I know better than you what success they are having. )

    The Tsuruda family has helped hundreds and hundreds of people pay off debts.
    (Is that a scam?)

  256. May 1, 2018 4:58 pm

    “net loss”? How do you do that??

    I only get the retail savings from my purchases plus retail profit off my customers plus wholesale bonuses. ..
    I spend $75 a month for wwdb unlimited access & digital delivery (we don’t use CDs much anymore).

    So if I’m profiting by over $100 per month how do I make a “net loss”??

  257. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 5:17 pm

    Net loss. Buy your 100 PV and attend functions = a net loss.

    How are you saving 25% to 30% when Amway products cost more than similar products are stores? Your savings is an illusion.

    Understanding the bonus system in Amway is no indicator that Amway is a good business opportunity.

    How many customers do you have that aren’t also Amway IBOs or your friends and family?

    How much PV is your group moving? How much is your group (if you have one) spending on cds and functions?

  258. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 5:18 pm

    I notice you gloss over but don’t answer any of my specific questions.

  259. Joecool permalink
    May 1, 2018 5:21 pm

    “”The Tsuruda family has helped hundreds and hundreds of people pay off debts.
    (Is that a scam?)””

    It’s just talk unless you can show some evidence that it’s true.

    I can tell you I have more money than Matt. Talk is easy. Frankly, who knows, maybe I am better off than Matt.

  260. May 1, 2018 5:47 pm

    😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣 (better off? I don’t think so)
    Did you home school/ private school your kids?
    Are you mentoring them to make $100,000 + for themselves?

    When you die will they inherit a six figure income stream?

    Do you take several five star trips a year?
    (For free??)
    Do you own 3.5 acres?
    Can you afford $20,000 a month in rent?
    Do you take $10,000 vacations at year’s end
    with your family?
    Do you get to spend a lot of time with your kids & brothers & family?

    Do you take annual trips to places like British Virgin islands or other exclusive resorts?

    How many other people have you helped to earn a six figures income? How many others are debt free because you helped them?

  261. May 1, 2018 5:50 pm

    Every negative is usually a know it all and most know it all’s are usually negative.

  262. May 1, 2018 5:59 pm

    Joefool you probably don’t get it.
    (You have no idea)

  263. May 1, 2018 6:31 pm

    Ok so. How many millions you got? 🤔
    Do you have a resource that pays you over $50,000 a month in cash flow?
    Is your house paid off?

  264. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 8:59 am

    “”Do you take several five star trips a year?””

    Yes, I do.

    “”Do you own 3.5 acres?””

    I have no need for 3.5 acres of land. Do you own 3.5 acres? If not, why not? Can you prove that Matt Tsuruda owns 3.5 acres of land?

    “”Can you afford $20,000 a month in rent?””

    Yes, I could, but it would be a waste of money since I own 2 homes that are paid off.

    “”Do you take $10,000 vacations at year’s end with your family?””

    I took a $10,000 vacation to Japan in January of this year with my family. I’m heading to Las Vegas next month and I’m flying to LA to see the Rams play football later this year and hopefully catch a Lakers game on the same trip. How about you?

    “”Do you get to spend a lot of time with your kids & brothers & family?””

    I don’t have a brother.

    “”Do you take annual trips to places like British Virgin islands or other exclusive resorts?””

    I haven’t but not because I can’t afford it. I just have no interest in going there.

    “”How many other people have you helped to earn a six figures income? How many others are debt free because you helped them?””

    I wouldn’t know because the people I associate with don’t openly disclose their financials with me. But for some reason, Matt Tsuruda has disclosed all of his personal financial statements with you so you can defend him on an internet forum?

  265. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 9:02 am

    It sounds like you are a new IBO. You obviously don’t fully understand how people in Amway make their money. I would bet money that Matt Tsuruda makes a significant portion of him income from selling cds, books and honorariums from speaking at functions and from his life coaching and mentoring business. I would even believe that he makes more from those activities than he does from Amway.

  266. May 2, 2018 9:07 am

    Uhmm. It’s real simple. Let me spell it out for you.

    #1 I get the retail profit off my own purchases
    #2 I get profit off my client purchase.
    #3 u get wholesale bonuses from 3% to 25%
    #4 I get a PERMANENT residual or royalty of 6 % on any business I help coach to the 35 % level.

    (And there are 5 other profits. Shall I continue?)

  267. May 2, 2018 9:10 am

    Dude this is the 21st century. We don’t use cads anymore. (get with it).
    He doesn’t sell any CDs or books to anybody.
    .wwdb has an extensive library of best selling authors clike John Maxwell who we use to educate people on leadership & success principles.
    All the audios I stream on the ap. Matt doesn’t handle that.

  268. May 2, 2018 9:14 am

    Who uses CD’s?? 🤣🤣🤣

  269. May 2, 2018 9:19 am

    I’m a friend of the family. (& No he has not revealed all his financial statements. )
    His brother told me about the housing situation.

  270. May 2, 2018 9:22 am

    He doesn’t need my defense. He’s doing just fine. Doesn’t care what you think or say. Joefool

  271. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 9:50 am

    I see. Now that you cannot effectively refute any of my arguments, the name calling begins.

  272. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 9:51 am

    “”Do you take several five star trips a year?””

    Yes, I do.

    “”Do you own 3.5 acres?””

    I have no need for 3.5 acres of land. Do you own 3.5 acres? If not, why not? Can you prove that Matt Tsuruda owns 3.5 acres of land?

    “”Can you afford $20,000 a month in rent?””

    Yes, I could, but it would be a waste of money since I own 2 homes that are paid off.

    “”Do you take $10,000 vacations at year’s end with your family?””

    I took a $10,000 vacation to Japan in January of this year with my family. I’m heading to Las Vegas next month and I’m flying to LA to see the Rams play football later this year and hopefully catch a Lakers game on the same trip. How about you?

    “”Do you get to spend a lot of time with your kids & brothers & family?””

    I don’t have a brother.

    “”Do you take annual trips to places like British Virgin islands or other exclusive resorts?””

    I haven’t but not because I can’t afford it. I just have no interest in going there.

    “”How many other people have you helped to earn a six figures income? How many others are debt free because you helped them?””

    I wouldn’t know because the people I associate with don’t openly disclose their financials with me. But for some reason, Matt Tsuruda has disclosed all of his personal financial statements with you so you can defend him on an internet forum?

    And I will note that I can do all this without Amway.

  273. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 9:53 am

    “”No he has not revealed all his financial statements.””

    So you have no idea of what he might actually earn, nor do you know what kinds of expenses he has in running his business.

    You’ve made some extraordinary claims but now you at least admit that you really don’t know and you are just making up stuff.

  274. May 2, 2018 9:56 am

    Nope. You have no “arguments”. You’re just an admitted failed 4000 PV who goes online saying how amway doesn’t work while quoting “$40,000 monthly income” from a diamond.


    Changed your name from joecool (because no you’re not cool.).

    Hypocrite with issues.

    I will NEVER apologize for offering someone the chance to be free and for promoting the #1 nutrition line in the world. (Yes Nutrilite is the #1 selling nutrition company & the ONLY ONE that owns their own organic farms. )

  275. May 2, 2018 10:06 am

    My “group” doesn’t buy CDs (this is 20@8 hello)

    As for “net loss?”. I spent $20 (OMG $20 ) at my last function. My last order saved me $65 buying wholesale.

    (BTW cost? Red bull is abiut $2 a can. Does not compare to xs. Which is around $2.25 a can)

    Double x? There is NOTHING that compares to it. Only 100% organic nutritional supplement with the patented nutrilock coting.

    My mouthwash? $5. Lasts 3 months.

    Scope doesn’t last a month.

    Obviamente you FAILED at 4000 PV because you didn’t even understand the business model or personal use.

  276. May 2, 2018 10:10 am

    You cannot to what Matt can do. And you cannot do what I will do tonight

  277. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:21 am

    I didn’t fail. Amway failed. I had 4000 pv with eagle parameters and still no net profit. That’s how WWDB works. You channel any profits to WWDB so the diamonds can make money.

    I can’t do what Matt does because I don’t wish to deceive people to make money. At least Matt does it with a smile right?

  278. May 2, 2018 10:25 am

    All I know is I’ve seen his house. Nice seen images of his new 2.5 acre ocean front property
    I’ve seen the cars he’s bought for family members ..I’ve been to his brothers house in manoa.

    I’ve seen the pictures his brother took of his sister’s newly renovated home on Colorado.

    He doesn’t have a job & provides very nicely for his family
    (What more do I need to know?)

    I passed the “stupid” test.
    .I win

  279. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:27 am

    “”As for “net loss?”. I spent $20 (OMG $20 ) at my last function””

    How much did you pay for Spring Leadership? How much is the upcoming Family Reunion function?

    “”My last order saved me $65 buying wholesale.””

    So you say. I’d like to see that broken down.

    “”(BTW cost? Red bull is abiut $2 a can. Does not compare to xs. Which is around $2.25 a can)””

    So XS costs more. How did you save money on that transaction?

    “”Double x? There is NOTHING that compares to it. Only 100% organic nutritional supplement with the patented nutrilock coting.””

    Yes, fresh fruits and vegetables compares to it and costs less.

    “”My mouthwash? $5. Lasts 3 months. Scope doesn’t last a month.””

    My scope lasts more than a month and it’s cheap when I buy it at Target.

    “”you FAILED at 4000 PV because you didn’t even understand the business model or personal use.””

    You obviously don’t understand business. Personal use is not business. If your group is taught to primarily use personal use as volume, you are running a product pyramid. The business model is having many downline make purchases so the diamond can earn nice bonuses. Everyone who’s not a diamond but attends functions is losing money. See how easy that is?

  280. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:29 am

    “”All I know is I’ve seen his house. Nice seen images of his new 2.5 acre ocean front property””

    I can show you pictures of ocean front property. Doesn’t mean I own it. By the way, did his acreage shrink from 3.5 to 2.5 now?

    “”I’ve seen the cars he’s bought for family members ..I’ve been to his brothers house in manoa.””

    I thought he was mentoring all his family members to earn six figures?

    “”I’ve seen the pictures his brother took of his sister’s newly renovated home on Colorado.””

    Nice, what is your point?

    “”He doesn’t have a job & provides very nicely for his family
    (What more do I need to know?)””

    I don’t have a job and I provide nicely for my family. Without Amway I might add.

  281. May 2, 2018 10:32 am

    Dude you failed. (You know Matt was once a 4000 and so was his wife when he met her. Unlike you they went on to emerald & diamond & EDC)

    AS FOR “channeling profits” you mean to tell me that, somehow, you were spending $1000 a month on CDs & functions? 🤔 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Dude I invest $75 a month for unlimited downloads & a book from wwdb costs less than the MSRP at the store.

    My last function cost me $20.

    Give us both a break & quit LYING as Brad Duncan always says.

    If you were not profitable at 4000 then you did it WRONG. (JUST at 300 PV you have enough retail & wholesale profits to pay for core. So either you’re lying or you did it wrong)

  282. May 2, 2018 10:36 am

    All I know is he’s retired and free since 23.
    Been living in Hawaii loa ridge now just bought a 2.5 acre ocean front property & is renting for a couple months while they rennovate & pays $20,000 a month for rent

    Not making stuff up. I’ve seen the pictures from his own brother

  283. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:38 am

    You avoided by question. How much did you spend on Spring Leadership and Family Reunion?

    You say I’m lying. What did I lie about?

    You say I failed. Well then WWDB failed because I did exactly what my upline “mentors” told me to do. At 300 PV you have enough retail and wholesale profits to pay for CORE.

    Now you’re lying. There are no wholesale profits. What you buy for yourself is not profit. It came out of your own pocket. And I know that you aren’t selling 300 PV.

    You also avoided explaining how you can earn $65 profit off your monthly purchases because an explanation would expose you.

  284. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:40 am

    “”Been living in Hawaii loa ridge now just bought a 2.5 acre ocean front property & is renting for a couple months while they rennovate & pays $20,000 a month for rent””

    I guess Matt’s property shrank by an acre. You said he bought 3.5 acres and asked me if I had the same.

    You might be shocked but pictures of properties is not evidence that it’s owned, nor is it evidence that the property is paid off.

  285. May 2, 2018 10:41 am

    Dude when you go to Safeway do you pay retail or wholesale? Who keeps that retail profit?

  286. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:46 am

    “”Dude when you go to Safeway do you pay retail or wholesale? Who keeps that retail profit?””

    What does that have to do with you buying Amway products from yourself?

    If I buy from a retailer, I pay what they charge and they make a profit.

    If you buy from Amway, you pay what they charge and Amway makes a profit.

    Only if you manage to sell to someone and charge more than what you paid, then you would have a profit.

    Buying from yourself generates no profit because any “profit” you think you made, comes out of your own pocket anyway.

  287. May 2, 2018 10:50 am

    No I NEVER said he has 3.5 ACRES. I asked if you have 3.5 ACRES (since you say you’re BETTER than Matt)

    It seems you have a hard time paying attention. (no wonder you say you went 40000 PV and were not profitable)

    Did you miss the talk by Greg about paying yourself retail? And maintaining a separate account for your business income?

    (And, yes at 300 PV there is a wholesale profit of 6%.
    In addition to the retail profits on your customer orders of 25-35%). At 300 PV you should be grossing around$250-300 in profit. Did you miss that part in the plan Joecool?🤔
    Total cost of core is less than 3000 for the year including books audios travel to and cost of functions.

    (BTW Netflix is losing money. Talk about a scam. Should they quit because they’re not profitable?)

  288. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:58 am

    “”Did you miss the talk by Greg about paying yourself retail? And maintaining a separate account for your business income?””

    Dude, do you understand business? If you have 100 dollars and you pay $20 for a product from Amway, I now have $80 and Amway made a profit from that sale. Even if I get some of that money back or I have “perceived” savings, it’s not profit. You need to sell something to someone other than yourself to make a profit. Business 101. That fact that Greg teaches that BS is amazing.

    “”And, yes at 300 PV there is a wholesale profit of 6%””

    It’s not profit. It’s a taxable rebate.

    “”Total cost of core is less than 3000 for the year including books audios travel to and cost of functions.””

    And unless your 1099 for the year exceeds your cost of core, you are losing money.

  289. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 10:59 am

    “”since you say you’re BETTER than Matt””

    Speaking of paying attention, where did I say I was “better” than Matt?

  290. May 2, 2018 11:01 am

    See you were NOT even core. You didn’t even understand the first thing about this business.

    I am my first customer. That retail/ wholesale difference is a profit. If I buy a protein bar at 7/11 I pay the same or more at retail than I do paying retail to myself from my own store

    A snack bar at Starbucks costs around $2
    My snack bars are around $2 retail.

    EVEN IF you Rob yourself of your own retail profits you still get 25-30% or so off the (ten) customers you’re supposed to have. How many retail customer pv did you have at 4000?
    How much PV did you do personally in your first circle?

    At4000 you should be making over $10000 a month. Core costs less than 2/3 that much.

    Don’t blame amway (they didn’t fail. You did.)

    Don’t blame wwdb. You did not even listen to what Greg Duncan taught from stage about personal use and first profits

  291. May 2, 2018 11:04 am

    Blaming amway & blaming wwdb because you did not listen & do what they teach. It’s Amazing

    Every time we find a loser/ complainer same thing. Every single time.

    I’m done with you. I’ve got w business to build

  292. Tony permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:07 am

    Malachy, it’s obvious you’re a new IBO… as you have the same rhetoric that we’ve all learned and heard while we were in the business, so don’t think you’re teaching anyone here anything we haven’t already heard or gone thru personally.
    Also, instead of living vicariously through your upline and using THEIR success stories and THEIR income (like they teach you to do) to compare to Joe Cool (JC), let’s here about how successful YOU are.

    What pin are you?
    Have you walked across stage yet?
    Are you cutting tapes and rollin’ in your Mercedes or Lambo with your WWDB Cribs video in your 7500 sqft home?
    How many people have YOU helped make a six figure income?
    Can you afford $20k a month rent?
    Do you take several 5 star vacations a year? (For free?)
    Is your house paid off?

    I mean, it’s only fair since you feel empowered to try to tear down anyone else by comparing them to a some Amway Diamonds (or DD, EDC, whatever they are) that have been around for well over 25+ years (that’s like being a 5 ft tall, 99 lb weakling and talking shit to people bc you know someone who’s a 6’5″ 250 lb MMA fighter that you can fall back on).

    JC seems to have a nice happy life, retired, in Hawaii, not having to worry about income much at all, yet you yourself haven’t mentioned a word about your status and success… again, all you have are other people’s successes while you vicariously swing on their nuts thinking you’re new MLM venture makes you better than anyone else.

    Do you believe that the only way to be happy, successful and financially independent is via Amway? Even though JC is already happy and successful, you continue to try to shame him and others bc they don’t make the millions that the Duncan’s, Baker’s, Tsuruda’s make? Do you even realize how unintelligent and ignorant that makes you? I don’t think you do bc personally, you’re just a pawn, a puppet, using the same arguments we were all privy to years ago.

    It’s clear you’re just regurgitating the exact same shit we’ve all heard and regurgitated ourselves back in the day. The stories and rebuttals don’t change because it’s the same WWDB business model… you’re just another “Amroid” or “Ambot” who thinks THEY are the next one who has what it takes… and statistics don’t lie… you’ll most likely fail and quit.

    Now, when you try to shame me, try not to use your upline or name drop (even though that’s what you’re taught), it’ll just continue to prove how desperate you really are. Plus, personally, I can name drop my personal upline back in the day way better than Matt Tsuruda’s brother
    Maybe some day you’ll come back to this blog and tell us about all your Amway successes, but I won’t hold my breath… I’ll take the odds… EVERY time.

    Oh, and buying Amway’s overpriced products and claiming you’re saving money and getting $ back… you say you “saved” $65, but how much did you spend to “save” $65? How much are you going to spend next month to “save” more money and make sure you’re using your 100PV? You’re like a bad car dealer commercial I hear locally… “it’s not about how much you spend, it’s about how much you save!” Absolutely terrible logic… but I digress… you’re just another Ambot PSA that will soon disappear into the ether.

  293. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:11 am

    And when Malachy or any other IBO runs out of cogent arguments, they start name calling or they disappear. LOL

    Tony, spot on post.

  294. May 2, 2018 11:12 am

    Actually I don’t drink that much as because I don’t like caffeine. But my customer loves it & I make around $5 a case.

    As for double x. Yes even Michael Savage can tell you fresh food is the first source for nutrition. ..

    Do you know the cost of organic produce? It is more right?
    XX is a “SUPPLEMENT”. helped osafa Powell set records as a runner. If you were to buy all the food separately organically farmed to equal the vitamin mineral &phytonutrients I’m pretty sure it would cost way more than $3 a day.

    There is no supplements that compared to nutrilite. (& I bet you never even used double x because of you did you would have noticed when you stopped taking them. I’ve been a wholesale customer for 27 years and I NEVER like to run out of double x. No way)

  295. May 2, 2018 11:15 am

    Dude you didn’t even use your own products or understand the plan. So don’t complain to me you made no money

    If, as you say, you were 4000 (what. One month maybe?). That should be over $10,000 on your 1099. Wanna show me your 1099?

  296. May 2, 2018 11:25 am

    I usually stop talking to people when I find out they lied. (Like saying you are 4000)
    with eagles parameters but not profitable. Liar.

    You didn’t even do what they teach! (& I bet you barely did 100 PV and no retail customer volume)

  297. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:29 am

    “”Do you know the cost of organic produce? It is more right?””

    Yes, but it is questionable as to whether there are actual benefits to organic products.

    “”There is no supplements that compared to nutrilite””

    Yes because nutrilite is the most expensive vitamins I’ve seen.

    “”Dude you didn’t even use your own products or understand the plan. So don’t complain to me you made no money””

    Of course I used my own products and I was hard core. I also made profits but my WWDB mentor told me the way to succeed was to invest all profits into WWDB, thus I had nothing.
    And yes, I am partially responsible for that decision, but I was told that Greg Duncan is a multi millionaire and thinks this is the way to go. The same Greg Duncan that went bankrupt.

    “”If, as you say, you were 4000 (what. One month maybe?). That should be over $10,000 on your 1099. Wanna show me your 1099?””

    How about you show me Matt Tsuruda’s 1099?

  298. May 2, 2018 11:30 am

    I’ll circle back to you in a year and compare your W-2 to my 1099s 😉

    You are a W-2 person right? 🤔

  299. May 2, 2018 11:32 am

    Better yet why don’t I circle back with my own 1099 or bonus statement when I’ve passed 4000 PV. 😉

  300. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:32 am

    “”I usually stop talking to people when I find out they lied. (Like saying you are 4000)
    with eagles parameters but not profitable. Liar.

    You didn’t even do what they teach! (& I bet you barely did 100 PV and no retail customer volume)””

    You haven’t been paying attention. I did personal use 150 PV as I was taught. I had profits but no NET profits because my WWDB mentor said it was wise to reinvest profits into the business. Also, being in Hawaii, it costs a lot to fly to functions in California and Oregon so expenses were high when we had major functions. That’s why there was no net profit.

    But the math bears out that my group as a whole, was losing money because of the tools and functions.

  301. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:33 am

    “”Better yet why don’t I circle back with my own 1099 or bonus statement when I’ve passed 4000 PV. 😉””

    I honestly hope you do. And you’d be the first one to do that if you did.

  302. May 2, 2018 11:36 am

    Well the cost of funnctns didn’t stop Matt and Sandee or Mandy Yamamoto (new diamond from Hawaii. Financial planner BTW) or Scott Harimoto.

    I guess that’s what separates the winners from everybody else. .
    BTW Netflix is NOT profitable. They’re losing money. Should they quit also? 🤔

    And how many retail clients did you have at 4000?

  303. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:38 am

    You sure ask a lot of questions considering you don’t answer any of mine.

    What level are you at and how long have you been an IBO? Why aren’t you already a diamond if Matt is so good at mentoring you?

  304. May 2, 2018 11:42 am

    Cool. TTYL

  305. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:45 am

    How come Howie Danzik (Matt’s brother in law) pretended like his first wife never existed?

  306. May 2, 2018 11:51 am

    I’m glad you asked me those questions. Do you plan to answer? How many customer did you have at 4009?

    What was your customer PV?

    I’ve been mostly a wholesale customer for 26 years (and an attempted quitter. But the one product I’ll never go without is double X. Every time I’ve run out or forgotten them (on a trip for example) it’s a noticeable difference.

    I just got sick & tired of not winning like Brad or Matt do so I just reconnted last month with his bro Ken to mentor me & I’m seeing great things happening now. I may be 150 PV but I don’t plan to stay there. $150,000 as an independent advertising rep is ok but that’s not big enough for my dreams.
    .now if you’ll excuse me I’ve gotta get back to my advertising business.

  307. May 2, 2018 11:54 am

    Hey my ex wife is not a part of my life or my business. I only remember her in my prayers. (*& Do you REALLY THINK his gorgeous wife Teresa wants him talking about his ex? Really??? Women 101 dude. NEVER talk about your ex or your past. It’s in the past!)

    It’s called a new life. (And a very enviable one I might add)

  308. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 11:58 am

    I had some customers, mostly family and friends. PV, maybe 50 per month.

    So at 150 PV, you are not able to pay for your “core expenses” yet.

    How do you plan to fix that?

    You said Asafa Powell took double x. Good for him, Usain Bolt eats chicken nuggets and sweet potatoes.

  309. May 2, 2018 12:05 pm

    150 PV should net you around $100-200 in profits & retail savings.
    So either stay a small business/ wholesale customer (like I did) or go make it bigger (like I am doing). Or quit (like you did).

    I just looked in the mirror yesterday & got honest with myself & so I’m doing something about it

    (So is Netflix a scam? Because people are investing in then & they are losing money you know. Should they quit & go open a negative blog?)

  310. May 2, 2018 12:14 pm

    Btw I did not go to spring leadership. I’m planning to go to family reunion.
    I need 4 more customers & 2 -3 bonus checks to be profitable & pay for it.

    (But in reality many other business owners – & I talk to many every week in my ad business- are not profitable & fund their business out of their own pocket initially. Some even go six figures into debt. I do not apologize for buying a book from John Maxwell or Grant cardone or investing $200 to go be around successful entrepreneurs & educate myself. How much does college cost these days? $100,000. Should they quit & put up negative stuff on the internet??)

  311. May 2, 2018 12:50 pm

    At 150 PV you should be getting about $150 per month. Unlimited audios & video streaming is only $75 per month. Out of town functions cost you around $1500-2000;# year with traveling so you can either get more customers and, build up your business Bigger or pay out of pocket (for your first six months. Matt went 7500 in 6 months. B Duncan was making $4200 a month 11 months in. He slept in his car at functions since he did not have for hotel costs.)
    So yeah. You may have to do like MANY entrepreneurs and go out of pocket initially in any business. I talk to business owners all day long. Most don’t make profit untill after their first 1-2 years. But you had that job mentality & consumer coupon mentality. Great. Be a wholesale customer then. Stay home. Don’t go to functions. Or do what Ron & Brad did & be profitable your first year. Brad Duncan got retired after one year.

  312. Joecool permalink
    May 2, 2018 2:12 pm

    “”Totally wrong. First off Greg took out loans against his houses to pay off a lawsuit cost (you get sued by people when you’re rich).””

    Not true. According to Greg’s bankruptcy records, he had interest only loans on some of his Montana houses. He probably tried to flip the houses and had bad timing. BTW, I sat in a function where Greg said people who took out loans were stupid because you make the bank wealthy with interest. Seems hypocritical to me.

    If diamonds had loads of cash, why did he need a loan and why did he have credit card debt plus he owed the IRS several years of back taxes.

    “”Second. Amway revenues in North America are actually up over 30%. The down turn is in Asia. (Why don’t you actually do research and learn facts before spewing garbage?)””

    Amway doesn’t report revenues by individual markets. They issue only a global number. So who’s spewing garbage here?

    “”Currently wwdb is experiencing a surge in function attendance with some locations selling out & no room for free guest tickets .””

    At least that’s what they tell you. I can guarantee you that if they said they were sold out but I showed up with cash in hand, I would be allowed into the function.

  313. May 2, 2018 2:23 pm

    Uhm. Got they information right out of the mouth of the amway executive? She reported to us double digits increase in North America market. (It helps if you pay attention at functions you know like where Greg talked about “separate checking account. Pay yourself retail?”. )

    As for Greg’s personal finances it’s none of yours or my business what he DOES whith his money (but like you said he was making “$40,000 monthly income”. Is that right?)
    I’m sure that did not include the quarterly or annual bonuses. It’s assume at “triple diamond (that’s 15 platinum legs) even at the low end PV wise that’s at least $1000 per month from each leg at 4% or $15,000 a month. Not including his own Ruby side volume or annual Q 12 bonus or the Ruby bonus or the diamond incentive bonus or the free trips. (oh did you know they both he and Brad BTW went past 4000? They didn’t STOP they kept going. )
    So. Do you now or did you ever have $15,000 a month in royalty or residual cash flow? 🤔

  314. May 2, 2018 2:28 pm

    😂😂😂 “cash on hand’. What do you think it’s a car dealership? Sold out means SOLD OUT!
    NO free guest tickets available.

    Hey check out the seating capacity for Orleans arena in Las Vegas and then check out the Thomas & Mack arena.
    Yeah. They had to move the spring leadership function this year because Orleans only holds 10,000 😉.

    Here in Silicon Valley I’ve seen room size double at local functions..

  315. May 2, 2018 3:03 pm

    Yes Greg Duncan and Laurie had to sell an $8,000,000 real property to pay off $1,721,821.50 in taxes.
    (Do how exactly does one acquire an $8,000,000 property on $40,0000 a month?
    How does one owe nearly $2,000,0000 in taxes on a $500,000 income? 🤔

  316. Former Amway IBO permalink
    May 2, 2018 9:41 pm

    Hey Malachy Smith,

    I was in Amway at one time. I was young and a way to expedite my way to retirement seemed cool so I gave it a shot. What I quickly realized was that the diamonds are like actors. They get paid to put on a good show. They are pseudo celebreties that are famous only in the Amway world. But when you sit and really analyze the big picture, it’s not that pretty, like what JoeCool has described.

    Now I’m not saying that people don’t make money in Amway. I’m sure your friend Matt might make a decent income from Amway and Amway related business and not need to work a job. But is he making his bank from Amway or is he making some serious scratch from speaking honorariums and his life coaching business? From what I gather, diamonds only have to qualify once and they are diamonds for life. After that, you get to enter the speaking and motivation business which seems quite lucrative. I suppose it’s possible to go diamond, have your business fall apart but still make a nice living speaking and doing mentoring and life coaching. Since Amway doesn’t identify current diamonds, nobody would know. Your best bet is to see who goes to Peter Island on Amway’s annual free trip for qualified pins.

    Ok, now even if some people make good money from being associated with Amway, it’s clear that the rank and file IBO’s typically can expect to make nothing. And out of those who make money, most are making money from speaking and selling motivation and training.

    The fact that you have not witnessed actual financials tells me that you really don’t know how Matt makes his income. Previous diamonds whose financials were exposed show that speaking and other training related income is significant and maybe even surpasses Amway income.

    I would guess that the products are an afterthought in Amway but is needed to keep the entire system legal. Where is there a true market for “high end” household products? You can see easily that low prices for household goods is popular based on how successful WalMart is.

    And I agree with the comment that you are using Matt as credentials when in fact, you have not accomplished anything in Amway yet. The Internet is loaded with people claiming they will conquer Amway and live in luxury while money pours in while they enjoy retirement at age 25. But as Joe said, nobody that I’ve seen has ever posted big talk and then returned 6-12 months later to brag (with proof) about how they went emerald or whatever. I suspect you won’t be back either but I wish you the best of luck just as well

  317. May 8, 2018 8:06 am

    Uhhjm. No. It doesn’t work that way. (In fact, in smaller/ newer/developing markets diamonds have gone out of pocket to put on a function.

    As for “speaking honorariums” how much do you THINK they get paid? 🤔

    There is no “life coaching business”. (Matt’s brother Ken has never charged me one red cent to mentor me or give me advice or help me through a situation.).

    As for “Serious scratch” I can show you how with just 12 bonus checks (double eagle Ruby) you can make over $15,000 per month with just 3 products(about $8 a day on nutrition/ consumables) and 5 customers.

    I know Matt makes Thousands a year off of his brother’s platinum business which also includes his dad’s double eagle Ruby business (from which dad and mom make over $14,000 a month).

    I hope Ken makes over $5000 a month off my platimum business (because he’s earned it with the time he’s given me and the friendship he’s built with me).

    As for diamond qualifications, Duncan’s have gone from Diamond to edc to double to tripple to crown. Never fallen out. Matt Tsuruda hasnever fallen out of qualifications.

    They only have SUCCESSFUL people talk on the stage.

    You should try it sometime (being successful and actually FINISHING what you start, not just”give it a whirl”. That’s why you’re not successful and just like Joe Cool that’s why you’re here complaining/ bad mouthing those who have actually ACCOMPLISHED what you didn’t couldn’t or weren’t willing to.

    All y’all are just full of excuses.

    Later man.

  318. May 8, 2018 8:11 am

    You can shop at Walmart (* Sandra Bullock does not buy her skin care from Walmart 😉. She uses artistry. So do I and people can’t believe I’m 50+).

    You can work at Walmart when you retire. How’s that ? 🤔

  319. Tony permalink
    May 8, 2018 8:26 am

    Hey Malachy, why don’t you stop making multiple posts about nothing. You haven’t done anything worth while in Amway, not even remotely close. All you’ve done is brag about who you know and about how you know the system and all the bonuses and payouts, blah blah blah. We all already know about that and we DON’T CARE. You’ve done zilch, nada, nothing, but sit here try to shame those that have decided NOT to build an Amway business. You’re so awesome, then stop talking about it and just do it. Come back in a year and update the world how great you are and how stupid everyone else is, but statistics don’t lie… you won’t be back.
    You haven’t been listening to enough of your audio recordings or reading your books because “no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care”. Also, ever hear “the people who talk the most have the most to hide”? That’s you… you’re all talk and no game or action. You feel superior to others because you THINK the information you have makes you superior. A real Diamond mentality teaches you to forget about those “dream stealers” like us and just build it… yet here you are, almost ever day, stuck arguing and shaming people that have gone before you and seen the bullshit of the forest, while you’re still in the trees.

  320. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 9:00 am


    Amway says they grew in the US? Good for them but global revenues were still down 200 million last year and global revenues are down to 8.6 billion is 2017 after hitting a peak of 11.8 billion in 2013. That means fewer people qualifying for larger pins and less bonus money for IBOs.

    As for Greg Duncan. He didn’t sell 8 million in real estate to pay off anything. He had interest only loans (the worst kind) so he had ZERO EQUITY. He declared chapter 7 bankruptcy which is our business because if Greg can’t pay his taxes and defaults due to bankruptcy, US tax payers wind up paying his bill.

    And Greg made about $40k a month which included all Amway bonuses. He had about half a million in Amway income on his tax returns which is public record when you file bankruptcy. Despite what looks like a great income, he had credit card debt and was years behind in paying taxes. He also had no charitable contributions. All public record in Montana.

    Look, I”m not disputing that Matt or some other can make a good income from Amway, but they do so at the expense of their 1000+ downlines. Or if you will, people like yourself who are losing money due to the tools and functions while moving your 100 PV like a good soldier.

    How does one owe 2 million in taxes on a 500k income? Well, Greg had some other sources of income such as money from tools and functions so his gross income was about a million bucks a year. Despite that, he owed millions because he had not paid his taxes for years. A large income doesn’t mean you are a smart money manager nor does it mean you have a shred of ethics.

    I sat in an audience once where Greg said “stupid comes to mind” when talking about people who make loans and enrich the banks. Then Greg goes and takes out the worst kind of loan, an interest only loan where you have no equity.

  321. May 8, 2018 11:16 am

    Dude are you a bankruptcy lawyer? Do you understand what the difference is between chapter 11, chapter 13 & chapter 7?

    Do you understand he was forced to accept chapter 7?

    (Can anyone qualify for “interest only loans” without a down payment or substantial income to qualify?)..

    I remember the banker he sat down with was amazed at his income (& he still has a job while Greg was free!)

    You people keep on bad mouthing a man for being in bankruptcy while at the same time talking about the high income he makes (*which is the same as most people make in a year every month)

    And, NO, not every profit is paid monthly by Amway (and if he DID show a $500,000 TAXABLE INCOME that means he grossed alot more. But you W2 people don’t know anything about that since you have no write offs like travel and meals etc. )

    And he helped Brad (& Julie) get free and wealthy who helped Leslie Walgomott get free and wealthy who helped former NFL player Tracey Eaton (who had to sell his house after retiring from the NFL because he was a lot broker after being a stock broker) pay off $400,000 in debt, replace and exceed his NFL salary and pay cash for a house.

    Should Greg Duncan apologize for THAT?

    (Chapter 7 forces you to restructure your debt & commit to a plan to pay it back )

    And so what if he made some risky investments or got sued over xs ownership & had huge legal bills & settlements to pay.
    Is that “Amway’s ” fault?? 🤔

    (And do any of you whiners & complainers make $50,000 a month while not having a job and help others do the same? Of course NOT. Whiners & complainers & quitters never win! )

    Brad Duncan walked into a private meeting in Las Vegas I was invited to (you know, by invitation only) and told us we are 2-3 years away from making $1,000,000 a year.
    I’m sorry but I choose to listen to him who has DONE it rather than listen to whiners complainers & quitters.

    Y folks can do NOTHING for me (except motivate me more and show me how NOT to think).

    None of you makes even 1/4 of w million a year and you probably have j j jobs (or maybe you’re Joe cool retired but you can’t touch the lifestyle of a Duncan or Tsuruda family member. )

  322. May 8, 2018 11:21 am

    $500,000 from “tools & functions”? I don’t think so! First of all he doesn’t profit from book sales (& nobody sells tapes anymore. You still living in the 90s?)

    We got unlimited downloads & digital delivery now. I haven’t bought a CD since I can’t remember when.

  323. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 11:50 am

    You miss the entire point. Greg Duncan went into bankruptcy because he did not properly manage his own finances. Is this someone you want to be mentored about regarding your own finances? I’ll pass.

    And year, Greg made about half a million from tools and functions. It was listed on the tax return he filed which was public record when he filed for chapter 7. He also carried credit card debt and owed years of back taxes. You ignored the part that it is our business when he defaults on taxes because tax payers have to eat losses.

    Nobody can touch the lifestyle of Matt or the Duncans. Well, now that you mention it, what lifestyle are you referring to? They still work while I’m free. I can post some pictures of me in mansions and a sports cars. Is that enough evidence to prove that my lifestyle matches theirs? If you answer is no, then I don’t accept that they live jet set lifestyles because you heard stories or saw pictures of them.

    They both need to be in certain places at certain times (for money) while I do what I enjoy and I do it when I want.

  324. May 8, 2018 11:53 am

    Ok so can you show me proof of this “500k” from tools & functions income?.

    Show me where I can find it or email it to me

  325. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 11:55 am

    Doesn’t Greg teach people to get out of debt? And yet, there he was:

    “”A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of repayment as in chapter 13. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee gathers and sells the debtor’s nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to pay holders of claims (creditors) in accordance with the provisions of the Bankruptcy Code. Part of the debtor’s property may be subject to liens and mortgages that pledge the property to other creditors. In addition, the Bankruptcy Code will allow the debtor to keep certain “exempt” property; but a trustee will liquidate the debtor’s remaining assets. Accordingly, potential debtors should realize that the filing of a petition under chapter 7 may result in the loss of property.””

    “”One of the primary purposes of bankruptcy is to discharge certain debts to give an honest individual debtor a “fresh start.” The debtor has no liability for discharged debts. In a chapter 7 case, however, a discharge is only available to individual debtors, not to partnerships or corporations. 11 U.S.C. § 727(a)(1). Although an individual chapter 7 case usually results in a discharge of debts, the right to a discharge is not absolute, and some types of debts are not discharged. Moreover, a bankruptcy discharge does not extinguish a lien on property.””

  326. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 11:57 am

    “”Ok so can you show me proof of this “500k” from tools & functions income?.””

    Go on pacer and looks up Greg’s bankruptcy filing under the State of Montana 2009.

  327. May 8, 2018 11:59 am

    So Joe Cool do you make $500,000 a year (& can you teach me how to do that? )

    Also were you retired at 23?

    Here’s the picture book of your & happy & free.

    mattandsandeetsuruda dot com.

    If you cannot teach me to live like they do ($500,000 a year no job ) then I have no further use for you.

  328. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:02 pm

    Looks like the State of Montana could not collect attorney fees from Duncan due to the litigation of his chapter 7 bankruptcy:

    Click to access Duncan_District-Court-Decision.pdf

  329. May 8, 2018 12:02 pm

    Is it “” or what?

  330. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:05 pm

    Malachy Smith,

    First show me concrete evidence that Matt was retired at age 23. As far as I’m concerned, he was working then and is working now. You can argue that running functions and a life coaching business is “easy” but you still need to be in certain places at certain times (for money) and I don’t.

    Secondly, can you prove that Matt earns $500k from Amway? When you can show evidence other than your statement or showing pictures, we can talk. Matt’s website doesn’t show his earnings.

  331. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:07 pm to access electronic court records

  332. May 8, 2018 12:07 pm

    Yeah well the court SAID (DUH) “NOT reasonable”.

    And, with regards to back taxes, you DO UNDERSTAND the government can come after an individual RETROACTIVELY For many years of back taxes if they disagree with your filings or write offs RIGHT?

  333. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:11 pm


    Your argument is weak, as Tony has pointed out. I could say Matt is a poverty case and point out the wealth and lifestyle of Bill Gates. I can show you pictures of his mansion and Bill Gates net worth is well known.

    What does it prove?

    My horrid j-o-b (plus investments) provided me with a very comfortable retirement where I travel to nice places at least 3-4 times per year. My next trip will be to San Francisco to watch Sunday Nite Football in person. Next year, I have multiple trips overseas in the works and I’m quite happy to be relatively young and healthy.

    What has Amway provided for you?

  334. May 8, 2018 12:11 pm

    Uhm. WRONG. Retired at 23. As in. No job. Putting in less than 20 hours a week to GROW Hos business.

    His sister & brother in law can spend 4 MONTHS a year at their home in Hawaii (away from their main home in Colorado springs). No suits. No meetings. That’s called freedom.

  335. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:12 pm

    The question is why someone with such a large income could not stay current with paying his taxes?

  336. May 8, 2018 12:13 pm

    Ok cool thanks

  337. May 8, 2018 12:14 pm

    The IRS or revenue department can make a ruling any time retroactively that you owe money.

  338. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:15 pm

    So other than you posting it here, how does anyone know when Matt “retired”? By the way, actively running a business is not “retired”. You can possibly claim it’s part time work but it’s not retired.

  339. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:17 pm

    I don’t work at all. My chore for the day sometimes is to go to the movies.

  340. May 8, 2018 12:23 pm

    Good for you. In happy for you. Really I am. (That’s Santa Clara technically BTW 😂🤣)

    Speaking of Santa Clara there is not one property (not even a condo) available for $500,000 in the whole county. I’ve met many people personally who have a house 3 counties away and have to commute (or sleep in their cars ) because they cannot afford to rent it live here in Silicon Valley

    Meeting with one tonight who wants his freedom.

    I don’t apologise for THAT.

    (And if you are SO happy with the way your retirement has worked out why are you so bitter & wasting your precious time in here knocking what has WORKED for thousands who did what they were taught?

    Just heard w Kate yesterday from a lady who got free in a year and a half as a double eagle Ruby from the day they launched their business. Retiring from her job this month.
    WHY would you knock that? I don’t knock what you do.

  341. May 8, 2018 12:26 pm

    Dude Grant cardone retired from his previous employment as a car salesman. Worth millions today. Still works at expanding his business.

    So does Robert Kiyosaki.

    So does Kevin Oleary.

    So does mark Cuban.

    That’s what entreoeners do. They build things.

  342. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 12:30 pm


    The Debtors Gregory B. Duncan and Laurie L. Duncan filed a Chapter 11 petition on September 11, 2007. Their Schedules were filed on October 9, 2007. Schedule A lists their residence at 706 Birch Point Drive in Whitefish, Montana, and other real property with a total value of $8,840,090 [1] . Schedule C lists their homestead exemption claimed under Montana statute in the amount of $250,000. No objection was filed to the allowance of Debtors’ homestead exemption. Pursuant to a stipulation with creditors and the U.S. Trustee, the case was converted to Chapter 7 by Order entered on August 18, 2008 (Docket No. 161). [2]

    The IRS filed Proof of Claim No. 7 on October 22, 2007, and has filed a total of six amendments. Claim 7 first asserted a total claim in the amount of $2,059,392.63, including unsecured and priority claims and a secured portion in the amount of $1,721,821.50, which was secured by federal tax liens against the Debtor’s real estate and vehicles. The second amendment to Claim 7 filed on January 2, 2008, reduced the secured portion to $1,697,275.38 and stated the total as $2,168,280.34. The third amendment filed on April 24, 2008, stated the secured portion as $1,672,650.16. The fourth amendment filed on August 18, 2008, stated the secured portion as $1,672,650.16. The fifth amendment filed on August 28, 2008, states the secured portion as $1,778,132.29. The last amendment to Claim 7 was filed on November 10, 2008, and includes only priority and unsecured claims in the total amount of $605,795.28, but the attachment states that the IRS “retains its lien.” No objection has been filed to the IRS’s Proof of Claim, and it constitutes prima facie evidence of its validity and amount under F.R.B.P. 3001(f).

    The DOR has filed several claims. DOR filed Claim Nos. 13 and 14 on November 27, 2007, and filed amendments to Claims 13 and 14 on August 25, 2008. Claim 13 now asserts a secured claim in the amount of $229,634.94 secured by real estate and warrants for distraint. Claim 14 now asserts a secured claim in the amount of 907 *907 $187,174.62. No objections have been filed to Claims 13 or 14. The DOR filed Proofs of Claim Nos. 31, 32, and 33, and amended those claims on May 6, 2009, asserting unsecured and priority claims, to which no objections have been filed.

    Darcy M. Crum (“Crum”) was added as Trustee on September 2, 2008. She filed a motion to sell real property free and clear of liens on September 23, 2008 (Docket No. 220), listing seven (7) tracts of real property which she wished to sell to Public Realty Capital, Inc., for the sum of $8,000,000. The 6 tracts were allocated values totaling $8 million, and Debtors’ residence at 706 Birch Point Drive, “Tract 3”, was allocated $2,700,000 of the purchase price. Objections were filed but were withdrawn by the time a hearing was held on October 9, 2008. An Order (Docket No. 247) was entered on October 20, 2008, granting the Trustee’s motion for sale free and clear of liens, with all valid liens attaching to the proceeds of the sale of properties and providing: “Nothing contained herein shall affect the validity, priority of classification of any such lien, claim, interest or encumbrance” and listing the valid liens. Federal tax liens in the amount of $1,778,132.29 and state tax liens (warrants for distraint) in the amounts of $187,174.62 against Laurie Duncan and $229,634.94 against Gregory Duncan are listed on page 3 of the Order. No motion to amend or for reconsideration of the Order Docket No. 247 was filed, and no timely notice of appeal of that Order was filed.

    On November 3, 2008, the Trustee filed a notice of intent to sell 12 vehicles including two boats [3] to the same buyer as the real estate for the total sum of $115,000 (Docket No. 254). The Debtors filed an objection, and after Debtors moved for a continuance a hearing on that sale was held on January 15, 2009. After that hearing the Court sustained the Debtors’ objection and denied approval of the Trustee’s proposed sale by Order entered on January 16, 2009 (Docket No. 328). The Court denied approval of the Trustee’s first proposed sale of the boats because she exposed the boats only to the market for sale in and around Great Falls, Montana, and the Court determined that the boats should be exposed to the Flathead market.”””

  343. May 8, 2018 12:37 pm

    So you see? Chapter 7 (less preferable) forces you to have a trustee who sells off your ASSETS to pay off all those debts if possible. )

    (You know those houses & boats he bought with his amway income?)

  344. Joecool permalink
    May 8, 2018 4:25 pm

    How is it that Greg couldn’t pay his taxes and bills with barrels of cash pouring in? Is this someone to take counsel from?

  345. May 8, 2018 5:32 pm

    Duncan got sued for millions over a dispute on ownership of xs. That’s why. If you listen to Brad Duncan you’d know that.

  346. May 8, 2018 5:34 pm

    I don’t take consel from Greg neither does Matt. Different line of sponsorship.

  347. May 9, 2018 9:01 am

    Why don’t you ask Greg? I’m not hos brother or his downline.

    (How is it Brad was able to buy his wife a Bentley and own the penthouse “in town where all the action is” from a business “that doesn’t work”?🤔)

  348. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 9:15 am

    How do you know that Brad bought a Bentley? I can take a picture of one and tell you I bought it in cash.

  349. May 21, 2018 9:31 am


    it’s not a picture of one at a dealership..

    It’s his wife owning it!!

  350. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 12:25 pm

    How would you know what’s owned or not? I can take a picture inside a luxury condo and say I bought it cash. I can sit in a Ferrari and say I own it.

  351. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 12:26 pm

    I never said the business doesn’t work. It works for a few people but the rest lose money in order for the few to succeed. That’s how MLM works.

  352. May 21, 2018 1:51 pm

    Wrong wrong WRONG WRONG
    (& If that’s how your upline taught you then he’s wrong!).

    I do not need to “lose money” in order for my sponsor or my platinum to make money.
    The worst you can do is buy wholesale the items you need anyway.
    (& If a $7 CD or a $124 function ticket is gonna bankrupt you then don’t buy it!!)

    I’ve never heard anyone at 4000 or above complain they’re ‘losing money”. Except for you.

    SMH dude get a clue..

  353. May 21, 2018 2:16 pm

    So I saved $64 on my $185 order.
    (How did I “lose money” again??)

  354. May 21, 2018 2:19 pm

    Yeah. Right. (& It’s parked in his garage right next to the Ferrari that she bought him. )
    (Sounds like you’re just a terribly jealous sore loser. Since you didn’t make any money according to your own words the you “lost”. Right??)🤣🤣🤣

  355. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 3:27 pm

    How do you save $64 on a $185 order? Is that MLM math? When you buy from yourself, you are just a customer of Amway and/or your upline. You don’t save anything.

  356. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 3:28 pm

    I was at 4000 with eagle parameters and that was not profitable. Go ask WWDB. I did as I was advised.

  357. May 21, 2018 3:35 pm

    I pay wholesale. (maybe you never got THAT part. Seems you never got how it works — that’s why you failed buddy).

    Same like kind products (if they’re even available) at Safeway or Starbucks would have cost me more. 😉.

    When my customer messages me for an order of Xs he doesn’t complain about the price! (He just hands me the cash and I make a nice profit 😎)

  358. May 21, 2018 3:38 pm

    What? I thought I saw in an earlier message you said you were double eagle. There’s a huge difference!

  359. May 21, 2018 3:57 pm

    So you were paying out 6 bonus checks & totalling over 4000 PV (& you had at least 3 clients right?).
    Even with everybody doing a personal circle of 350 PV you would have gotten a gross profit of over 2000$$$$.

    How did you possibly “lose money” & not be profitable with a gross earnings of over $2000 a month? Wwdb membership is only $49.95 a month. Kate is only $39.95 and major functions only cost less than $200 (4 X per year)..

    And three travel functions you can add another $600 for each in travel costs…so let’s see here.
    $1800 for travel. (ok double that since you come from Hawaii. To $3600 in travel)

    $800 in function tickets
    $80 in local function admission
    $500 in Kate
    $600 for annual wwdb membership
    Throw in $20 a month to read a new book so that’s $250 round numbers on books.

    Dude even with expansive travel from Hawaii to Portland that’s STILL less than $6000 annually.
    (But I’ll give you another $4000 for whatever CDs or things your upline told you to order. I get unlimited audio/ video download for $25 a month).

    So $25,000 annual gross income at 4000 eagle minus $10,000 on travel & wwdb membership & functions & CDs. How is $15,000 net profit not profitable????

    (You weren’t an accountant in your j j job we’re you?? 🤔🤣🤣🤣)
    I’d 🔥 my account with that kinda math.

    Anybody claims they’re not profitable at 4000 with 6 bonus checks is either a liar or they did it WRONG!!!

  360. May 21, 2018 4:06 pm

    I just ran the model with just 2 customers & 3 products per month for 6 bonus checks & each of them sponsoring ONE to dulpicate vthem for a total of 4300 PV. Profit was $1900 per month.

    Send me an email & I’ll show you a picture of my screen.

    Now explain for me how the hell you spent over $1900 per month on wwdb tools travel & functions???

  361. May 21, 2018 5:03 pm

    Joe cool I just did the math over again and (even with one extra CD per week + standing order and $800 per trip for 3 major out of town functions + all the function tickets & one new book a month I could not come up with more than $5000 annually in core expenses (& I know Ron Puryear said in a tape that core is less than $4000 a year).

    So. Even if you grossed only $1200 a month (somehow) at 4000 PV how in the WORLD is that not profitable??

    (Oh. I know. You hit 4000 one time with half of it going down one leg and you barely qualified for eagle. So. Yeah. Probably didn’t even gross $1000 (but core averages less than $300 per month so either you did it wrong, you barely hit 4000 one time or you’re a LIAR. )

    “Show me the money Jerry”. I wanna see your bonus checks at 4000 PV.

    I’ll show you mine (& I WILL be profitable at 4000l. )

  362. Joecool permalink
    May 21, 2018 5:04 pm

    When you buy from yourself, there is no profit. You just became a customer of Amway and nothing more.

    How can you spend money and make no net profit in Amway at 4000 pv? Simple, you follow the teaching of WWDB. I did as advised. I was teachable after all. I bought my standing order and 7 extra tapes/cds each week and attended all functions including the ones on the mainland. That’s how you can be at 4000 and not make a net profit.

    I never said I was a double eagle.

  363. May 21, 2018 5:08 pm

    I’m sorry. 7 EXTRA CDs a week?? Dude you did it WRONG!!

    I SPEND $25 a month for unlimited access & streaming. + A $49.95 membership

    So at $75 a month how do you NOT make a profit if at 4000 PV you’re getting over $1000 per month on bonus checks and retail profit??

  364. May 21, 2018 5:12 pm

    You cannot buy snack bars or energy drinks or vitamins ftlm Safeway or wall greens at wholesaler bubba.

    My $5 mouthwash lasts me 3 months. Scope barely lasts a moth.
    (AGAIN explain how I’m losing money when I buy things for a lesser cost than I can from the store? Last I checked nutrilite is not available in any stores BTW. )

  365. May 21, 2018 5:26 pm

    Even WITH that extra 7 CDs a w& three trips to Portland every year I couldn’t get more than $7000 in expenses ($600 a month average)

    (& I couldn’t find a way to get less than $1800 as a 4000 with 6 bonus checks. It’s impossible. )

    So you tell me. Are you a liar or you had one leg at 2500 or you’re really bad at math??

  366. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 9:06 am

    Dude, I did what the WWDB system and upline leaders advised. I was told that Greg Duncan was a multi millionaire and this is what he advises.

    When you are hard CORE, it’s not hard to average more than $1000 a month in business expenses. 7 additional cds/tapes per week is $49 a week in addition to standing order which was $42 – $49 a month. This one expense alone is about $250 a month. That doesn’t include book of the month, local open meetings, gas and other expenses plus factoring in 4 trips to the mainland during peak travel when airfare is the most expensive.

    Maybe you should do the math.

  367. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 9:07 am

    Of course you can buy energy drinks and snack bars at Safeway. You can buy non Amway brands which are typically cheaper than Amway products.

  368. May 22, 2018 9:17 am

    Xs and similar product cost same or less than Starbucks or Safeway

    Starbucks sells $2 snack bars. Body key/ XS sells snack/ energy bars for similar cost.
    (But I can’t build income or retire buying Starbucks or Safeway products. Hey! 😉)

    And, no, nutrilite (the world’s first multivitamin multimineral supplement & the #1 selling supplement world wide) cannot be purchased at Safeway.

    (I bet you never even used your own products otherwise you’d know about the quality and have a few customers & do what I did. Just hang with wholesale use & a few customers if you don’t wanna buy CDs or go to functions. Hey!)

    Funny how the system worked just fine for Brad Duncan (he got free in a year) and te dozens of his downline diamonds & emeralds and for the bakers and their son Trevor (He’s not complaining in the video I saw last night of him hanging out at Matt’s house (on the water on the north shore)

    Trevor is in his early 30s and makes a million a year. Did you do that? 🤔

  369. May 22, 2018 9:44 am

    Yeah I did the math (just to check myself) 3-4 x. I came up with $250 a month for you CDs (& really? You’re compliant about book of the month? $20. OMG wow). Read two books that’ll put ya at $300.
    $800 for travel expenses 3 x a year that’s $2400 or $200 a month.

    $20 for 8 local functions
    $100 each for four major functions
    So $560 annually that’s about $50 a month average for functions.

    So far that puts me at $550 monthly average expense. (Nobody spends $500 a month on gas- except for those commuters here in California who live 3 counties away from San Jose and can’t afford a house by their job. )

    So what (expenses) was I missing? 🤔

  370. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 10:35 am

    Brad Duncan is “free”, but how many thousands have gone through his business and lost money? Probably hundreds of thousands over the years. And Brad made significant money selling them false hopes and dreams so he could peddle his cds, voicemail system and functions.

    Why do you constantly compare me with someone who allegedly made a certain income? In fact you have no idea how much “Trevor” made last year. You assume based on what they say or what they show off at functions. I bet you’d be surprised if you saw their actual financials.

  371. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 10:36 am

    Bill Gates was a multi billionaire by age 40. Did Brad or Greg to that? And Bill didn’t scam anyone into buying training materials.

  372. May 22, 2018 10:47 am

    Well Brad didn’t go back to construction his dad died a diamond (& was able to rely on all that passive income while in a coma for months) never complained (like you do) about the CDs or functions as well as Bob & Shelly kummer. Didn’t go back to corporate executive job. Leslie wokgamott did just fine (financially after her divorcio) & Tracey Eaton was able to replace or exceeded his income from the NFL.

    So how come all of them made it & all you did was complaining quitting & more complaining?

    As for Trevor what was he supposed to do? Stay in a job? His wife got free from a waitress job because of this business.

    I’ll be happy to trade place with Trevor or Brad any day.

  373. Joecool permalink
    May 22, 2018 4:27 pm

    How come all these diamonds with adult kids don’t have all of their kids as downline diamonds?

  374. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 9:35 am

    Brad Duncan’s dad went diamond at a time when diamonds were allowed to manipulate PV.

    I met Dave Duncan at a function and he honestly didn’t seem to know much about the Amway business.

  375. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 9:36 am

    Even if “Trevor’s” wife quit her waitress job, that doesn’t mean that he’s made a million dollars in a year. You know this right?

    Why does Matt Tsuruda need to run a life coaching business if he’s so wealthy? I know why.

  376. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 10:34 am

    “””So what (expenses) was I missing? “””

    Air travel from Hawaii is very expensive and we had 4 trips to make each year. Not to mention the function tickets, hotels, rental cars, meals, suits.

    Our local functions costed $7 and there were 4 sessions on the weekend.

    And there are expenses for products packs and other recruiting materials. Plus gas, car maintenance and other related business expenses.

  377. May 23, 2018 10:48 am

    Uhm. They do ! 😂😂🤣🤣😎

    Trevor Baker? Mom.& Dad got free when he was 6. He’s now a founders double diamond.

    Theron & Darlene Nelson?
    Their daughter & son in law have been diamonds for years (really enjoying all those FREE trips like locking out Disney just for IBOs ONLY. 😉)…

    B& J Duncan? His dad & mom went Diamond.
    Their kids are now making 6 figures as rubies (I guess the cost / paying the price for success never bothered them. )

    Terry & Linda Felber? Go on you’ll see their son David is now a diamond.

    Matt is teaching his daughters & so his his brother Ken.

    Losers quit. Winners win. And they teach their kids how to win.

    Get it? (No you never got it apparently all you did was quit & make excuses. )

    So…did you teach your kids how to live free? 🤔

  378. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 10:53 am

    All of your stories is just rhetoric. You said you never actually saw their financials or tax returns. In the same way I can say I make more money than your beloved diamonds and you have no way of being able to disprove what I say.

    And then, where is YOUR success if these leaders are mentoring you? All you’ve spoken about was making “profit” from buying your own stuff when in reality, buying your own stuff makes you an Amway customer and not much else.

  379. May 23, 2018 11:04 am

    So I guess Trevor should have left his wife at her JOB (& Ron too) because “the tapes cost too much”? 🤔

    And Matt doesn’t “run a life coaching business”.

    It’s what wwdb diamonds do. Teach success. (but people like you never learn)

    Brad was right. You’ll never saturate ignorance stupidity laziness & doubt.

  380. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:18 am

    WWDB diamonds teach success? What success? You said you haven’t seen their financials.

    Amway doesn’t publish who are currently qualified diamonds so some of them might be out of qualification and just making money by speaking at functions.

  381. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:22 am

    Matt has life coaching listed on his website. Is it pro-bono?

  382. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:23 am

    If you’re such good friends with Matt, why are you in Amway only now?

  383. May 23, 2018 11:35 am

    Success is more than just making money (you didn’t get that yet??)

    Mentorship is free (but it’s not freely given. It is earned. He can’t spend all his time with just anybody. )

    I have met people who WOULD NOT EXIST if their parents did not build this business.

    What is that worth? A successful marriage & time to educate yourself kids.

    It’s a damn good thing you quit. Mustwbeen a waste of time for your upline.

  384. Tony permalink
    May 23, 2018 11:49 am

    It’s apparent that Malachy will solely live and argue OTHER people’s Amway/WWDB successes because he has none of his own. It’s also apparent that he’s just another Amroid pawn in the business, giving his money to his upline like a good little downline should… still regurgitating the same comebacks and counters as we were all taught decades ago. Yet Malachy gleams in the feeling he’s the first one to tell any of this… like we haven’t heard it all before. He simply can’t see the forest through the trees and fog.

    I’ll give him this… he’s persistent in arguing… too bad those efforts aren’t being used to show the plan and help others make a lot of money. You know… like EVERY other name he’s dropped about how great they are, but yet he’s done close to nothing.

    Like the Dave Severn tape YEARS ago… “Pigs Don’t Know Pigs Stink!!”… and Malachy still doesn’t know.

    Oh, by the way, Malachy, my local group was sponsored by and counseled with Dean Kosage (I’m sure your “mentors” won’t have anything good to say about him – he left WWDB & Amway as an EDC… I wonder why?). We’ve seen his checks, we’ve seen the invoices on how much he made from WWDB tools each month. We hung out with Brad Wolgamott. We hung out with Brad and Julie Duncan… took them to the airport to their jet and watched them do their takeoff and then go straight vertical. We’ve been in the same small circles with Greg Duncan too. Have YOU done any of that?

    So I know you FEEL you’re superior to any of us bc you’re throwing names around, but that’s all you got. You’re doing nothing with the business, but you arguing on the Internet makes you FEEL like you’re accomplishing something, which will be part of your demise.

    **Success is more than just making money (you didn’t get that yet??)**

    Huh, are you sure about this statement? Because being rich and making other people money is ALL you’ve been commenting about!!! Like it’s the MOST important subject to discuss! So by your OWN definition, Joecool is successful… but it sure sounds like you’re unwilling to call anyone else successful unless they are in Amway/WWDB or built an Amway business.

  385. May 23, 2018 12:07 pm

    Ok so Tony why didn’t YOU succeed? 🤔

  386. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:12 pm


    You’ve avoided my question. What have YOU accomplished in Amway under your awesome mentors other than buying your own stuff and being an Amway customer? What have you gotten from Spring leadership and did you pay for the upcoming family reunion function?

  387. Tony permalink
    May 23, 2018 12:27 pm

    There’s a plethora of reasons I didn’t build an Amway business and none of them are any of your business. But you don’t get it… all you want to do is sit here and belittle people bc they DIDN’T build it. Guess what, neither have you.

    You don’t know a DAMN thing about ANYONE’S situation as to why they quit or didn’t build it. Shit, Joecool was at least a 4000 pin and you minimize that… actually you give him ZERO credit… just ridicule. So until YOU do it, I’d suggest you humble yourself and put in the work and go show your plan like your upline is SUPPOSED to be mentoring you to do.

    I imagine you’ll just keep at it as the Internet definitely makes the weak feel powerful… predictable. And these reasons and your attitude is also EXACTLY why you’ll never build it either. But I digress, best of luck regardless.

  388. May 23, 2018 12:33 pm

    So you’re gonna show me your bonus checks or statements from your “failed” 4000 business are you? How about proof you spent $1000 a month on core? Dude I’ve never spent that much.

    My cost of CORE was barely over $200 per month & I netted over $400 a month at 2500 PV. (I just about fell out of my chair when Ken handed me the check for the $750 gross amount). . If I can make $300-400 a month I can make $3000-4000 a month.

  389. May 23, 2018 12:39 pm

    Well you’re right Tony. I don’t give a crap about your excuses. You’re a waste of my time.
    . byeeeeee

  390. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:01 pm

    Dude, I left Amway 20 years ago. I didn’t keep all my financial records. I am only commenting based on what I remember. But then again, you’ve shown zero financial statements or evidence of all the millions that Matt and company have been making.

    Here’s some evidence of a “all out” IBO who had massive losses and aligns with what WWDB teaches and my experience:

    “””Dr. Mikhail testified that the time he devotes to Amway activities is largely directed at recruiting new distributors. He further testified that he usually spends his lunch hour, as well as an hour or two after work, and approximately three hours every weekend on Amway activities and that Amway is always “at the forefront” of his mind. Dr. Mikhail spent more time on Amway activities than Mrs. Mikhail.

    Mrs. Mikhail testified that she is responsible for bookkeeping, business management, and organization of Amway parties and events. During 2009 she maintained records of the couple’s Amway-related expenses including a mileage log, a spreadsheet listing monthly expenses, and credit card statements. Petitioners did not use their Amway records to prepare a formal budget or conduct a break-even analysis.

    Petitioners initially attempted to recruit family members and friends as “downline” distributors but found that most of them were unable to “overcome their life circumstances and continue to build Amway with us”. Petitioners later altered their recruitment strategy by frequenting upscale restaurants and shopping areas and striking up conversations with people they encountered with the aim of identifying what they termed “learners”. Petitioners purchased books and CDs from LTD and gave them to potential recruits.

    The Mikhails posted losses in every year from 2005 through 2011. All in, there was less than $30,000 in revenue and a total net loss of $192,427″””

    Note in 6 years, this IBO lost nearly $200k. Try to refute that.

  391. May 23, 2018 1:14 pm

    Dude the “Mikhails” are who??

    AND notice the title of the article is “tax court denied losses”

    Unbelievable SMH 🙄

    Nobody bloses $192,000 in an amway business. It’s IMPOSSIBLE! EVEN IF someone was buying every CD and every function tickets in 5 years …you can’t spend more than $5000 a year on core. If they did they were doing it WRONG!!

    EVEN the tax court agrees that’s not a legitimate loss in Amway.

    Case closed.

    At 2500 I NETTED $400 and my expenses were barely $200 a month (* & you’re not supposed to go 4000 and Stay there for a year. B Duncan doubled his income every month until after one year in the business he made $4000 a month. INCOME. Not PV.

    You (& that ridiculous “, petitioner” ) did it WRONG!!!

    TRYING to claim nearly $200,000 on losses? Even the court said NO!

  392. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 1:23 pm

    Malachy, there are many stories of people losing money in Amway. Some lose a little and some lose big money. It depends on who your “mentors” are and apparently, WWDB seems to have the mentors that advise people to spend more money. That’s my observation over the years.

  393. May 23, 2018 2:24 pm

    And there’s people losing money in the stock market every day. Netflix is losing money right now. What’s your point?

    (You gotta try REAL HARD (or be a slow learner of you telling me you spent over $6000 for the year and in a whole year you didn’t make even $400 a month)

  394. May 23, 2018 2:35 pm

    Well I was getting (after bonus checks) $350-400 a month at 2500 and my cost for CDs was $44 a month. Loca functions are $20 and majors around $125 a ticket 4 Xva year so that’s around $30 a month. Less than $2500 a year to be core and getting $350-400 a month. (Not counting my retail profits or savings. )
    So how did I lose money? 🤔

  395. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 3:04 pm

    People who lose money in the stock market are likely day traders and not long term investors. What does that have to do with Amway? In Amway, the vast majority make nothing or lose money.

    You certainly appear to be downplaying the amount of expenses to be an IBO. You didn’t add in voicemail, books and additional cds (can’t listen to the same one each day right?). And I assumed you never travel for major functions? Most IBO’s don’t have that luxury.

    You don’t spend money on gas, product sample packs and things for recruiting such as a board to show the plan, purchasing suits and other business attire?

  396. May 23, 2018 3:21 pm

    Again you can’t lose money in aMWAY UNLESS you did it WRONG
    (MY MOTHER is not a “day trader) & she lost 30% of her portfolio on stocks (like that’s never happened right 🙄)

    My POINT is (man you’r dense) there’s a RIGHT WAY and a wrong way to do stocks & a right way and wrong way (like losing $400 on extra function tickets which you did not resell) to do Amway.

    You did it WRONG. (PLAN I saw says to sponsor 12. Not just 6. ).

  397. Joecool permalink
    May 23, 2018 4:51 pm

    You only lock in losses in the stock market if you sell. If you hold the stocks long term, you normally do well if you invested in solid companies like WalMart for example.

    You keep saying I did it wrong and I probably did, but it was at the advice of WWDB leaders. You know, the ones you take counsel from now.

    What have YOU accomplished by following the advice of your mentors?

  398. Joecool permalink
    May 24, 2018 12:25 pm

    So you went 2500 and only spent $44 on cds? So do you listen to the same one each day?

  399. May 25, 2018 8:02 am

    Occasionally I’d get some extras. But you gotta hear something more than once to actually retain the information. Hey!

    Now we got digital download & I can listen to as many audios or videos as I want to.

  400. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 10:04 am

    Doesn’t WWDB have a monthly charge for this membership?

  401. May 25, 2018 10:28 am

    Cost me less than half of what you were spending for buying CDs. I can listen to any audio any time on my phone. And beam the approved audios to any prospects. No more passing out CDs.

  402. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 12:25 pm

    So what is you actual cost for tools on a monthly basis when add in the WWDB monthly fee?

  403. May 25, 2018 12:36 pm

    get unlimited access for $25 a month plus $49.95 gets me access to all the functions and ticket ordering and online plan showing & digital info systems. And my own customized retal website and prospecting website.

    No more CDs.

  404. Joecool permalink
    May 25, 2018 3:49 pm

    Ok, so $75 for the standing orders. What about KATE and the functions, open meetings, local functions, etc??

  405. May 25, 2018 4:03 pm

    Local function cost $20. 4 x a year. Dream night is $75. No Travel.
    Fam reunion $125. Air is $400.
    You can spend $30 a night on hotels if you pair up.
    You do the math.

  406. Normal person permalink
    May 25, 2018 4:44 pm

    What is wrong with you? You rant about this that and the other thing. Make fun about joe listening to both CD’s and Tapes as you are new but you quote from Tapes, wtf?? Obviously you have been brainwashed for many years, numb nuts…

  407. May 27, 2018 8:22 am

    “Normal person’ what “tapes” was I quotng from?

  408. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 10:15 am

    Your estimates of function and tools cost seems really low. Even cheaper than when I was in Amway 20 years ago. Sounds like you are lowballing your expenses.

  409. May 29, 2018 11:34 am

    Whicj expenses? $75 a month for unlimited streaming & downloads.
    I can email or text you an audio or video of you like.

    Dream night is local at $75.
    Fam reunion/ leadership/FED are $125 and air is only $400 or less to the mainland from Honolulu (3 x a year). Funny none of the hundreds of ibos in Tsuruda organization complaining about the cost to fly to mainland. Matt sold his TV to raise the money. Skipped plate lunches at school and brought his food from home to save for $5 tapes.

    He’s paying $20,000 a month to live in a house on the ocean right now – he’s never ever complained about paying the price (that’s why at 30 he was making over $90,000 a month before he was 30. )

  410. Joecool permalink
    May 29, 2018 2:55 pm

    You keep making income claims about Matt and others. Why? You honestly don’t know unless you’re his accountant and know what his income and expenses are. How would you know how much he pays for where he is living? Does he brag about it from the stage?

    Or are you making assumptions that he must be rich and therefore can spend all this money?

  411. May 29, 2018 6:43 pm

    Yeah and you make claims about two houses and millions but I’m not your account manager. So what’s your point? 🤔

  412. May 29, 2018 6:46 pm

    Sounds like you’re jealous & insecure (& bitter. Typical quitter. Always bitter).

    FYI his brother is one of my best friends I’ve had in my life. I know the family ok.

  413. May 29, 2018 6:47 pm

    Can you afford $20,000 a month for rent? 🤔

  414. Joecool permalink
    May 30, 2018 10:08 am


    I own two houses but then again, I’m not using that to sell training and function tickets.

    Matt and WWDB is using these claims as a means to promote Amway and their tool business. That is a big difference.

    And yeah, I can afford $20,000 for rent, but why would I when I own houses and don’t need to rent?

  415. Joecool permalink
    May 30, 2018 10:09 am

    I have close friends and family that don’t share their financial information with me.

  416. May 30, 2018 10:16 am

    So you make $60,000 a month then? 🤔

  417. Joecool permalink
    May 30, 2018 12:43 pm

    I never said I make $60,000 a month.

  418. Trinacrian permalink
    May 31, 2018 7:09 pm

    Joe, I’ve read all of the comments on this thread going back several years. This “Malachy S” can’t construct an argument to save his life. All he can do is scream about how many rich people he knows in Amway, and all the income and property they have.

    He can’t answer a single criticism of the basically unfair structure of Amway and all MLMs, and the deceptive propaganda that they employ to seduce recruits. All he can do is parrot the usual Amspeak cliches.

    The fact that he keeps on coming here, year after year, to engage in an endless and relentless verbal duel with you, only shows how insecure and defensive he is. If the Amway racket is working out so well for him, why is he spending so much time arguing with you?

    He knows very well that Amway is in bad shape, with its revenues shrinking in a steady downward spiral. He probably has a lot of difficulty recruiting new suckers into the “Plan.” So he takes out his resentment by coming here and ventilating against anyone who dares to criticize the scheme.

  419. Joecool permalink
    June 1, 2018 10:53 am

    Why are IBO’s so fixated about bragging about someone else’s alleged income?

  420. June 1, 2018 11:02 am

    Uhm. We’re not.
    Just pointing out examples of people who make more money in a month than most people make in a year. (Usually pointing out the truth slays error. Or else it irritates people like you who can’t handle the truth)

    This whole (poorly engineered) sure is built on the (false) premise that my business doesn’t work or they, somehow, a guy like Brad or Matt who are offered this opportunity are at a disadvantage because somebody who was successful took the time to teach them how to be financially free.

    I say “live free or die”

    As Mr Wonderful says “you’re dead to me”
    I’m out.

  421. June 1, 2018 12:04 pm

    So why did you brag about your two houses in Hawaii & you’re “comfortably retired”? 🤔

    Were you “bragging” about Greg Duncan making $40,000 a month?

  422. Joecool permalink
    June 1, 2018 2:29 pm

    The point is you don’t know how much these folks make. They might make a nice living, but if it’s true, they do so by exploiting people. I could tell you I make $100k a month posting comments on this forum. That doesn’t make it true. Only in Amway and MLM does it seem to be important to brag about some diamond’s earnings.

    I only mention my houses because I live comfortably and I made my way without Amway. And heck, I could have told you I own 10 houses and you’d have no way to disprove me.

  423. Joecool permalink
    June 1, 2018 2:30 pm

    I’ve been researching and commenting about Amway for 20 years. Not a single person like yourself has ever returned to the forum to say they went platinum or emerald and was able to prove it by showing me in achieve magazine or something like that. Chances are you’ll quit and forget this forum in a few months.

  424. June 1, 2018 3:57 pm

    Well good for you! But there still seems to be something about (how you couldn’t make it in) Amway or else you wouldn’t be commenting her, trying to discredit those who DID make it big (and, no, nobody became a millionaire off of tapes or CDs or $7 function tickets! Gimme a BREAK!).

    AND, BTW, ITS ALL in full color in their brochure how much emeralds or diamonds make (and you SAID it yourself G Duncan makes over $40,000 a month (that doesn’t include one time annual or quarterly bonuses it those $50,000 trips babe. You MISSED the boat on that one! )

    $50,300,000,000+ in bonuses paid by Amway (not “honorariums” or CDs 💰)

  425. Joecool permalink
    June 1, 2018 4:53 pm

    In Greg Duncan’c bankruptcy filing (chapter 7), Greg made just as much money from cds and honorariums as he did from Amway. And despite nearly a million dollars in annual income, we managed to go bankrupt.

    Maybe people should find someone else to mentor them on finances since Greg has shown an inability to manage his own.

    Any why did Greg owe back taxes and have credit card debt?

  426. Joecool permalink
    June 1, 2018 4:58 pm

    Greg’s income did include his bonuses. I took his annual income and divided by 12 to get the month figure. His bonuses and monthly checks from Amway averaged 40k per month. That’s a great income but you aren’t buying mansions in cash and a fleet of ferraris with that kind of income.

  427. June 2, 2018 7:16 am

    Yeah. $40,000 a month + $50,000 a year in free trips. (Most job people barely make $40,000-80,000 a year). All this while sleeping in if they want to every day.
    Point is the business DOES work (quite well) for those who LISTEN and follow directions.
    I SERIOUSLY DOUBT Greg or Brad complained about $5 tapes or lament how Kelly Roe or Terry Woodhead or Dave Severn are ripping them off, scamming them, or making too much money off them.

    All this which they built with only 200 products, no XS, no VISA or dozens of merchant partners like Barnes & nobles or Best Buy, no internet, no voicemail, no smart phones.

    (Would you like me to beam and out one of our latest audios? I can email it or text it to you)

  428. Joecool permalink
    June 4, 2018 10:04 am

    If the business works so well for people who listen, why don’t Brad and Greg and Matt have hoards of diamonds downline that they developed?

  429. June 4, 2018 1:47 pm

    Funny how you complaining about the 100-200 IBOs per platimum and the hundreds it takes to make a diamond business and then you’re doubting the numbers of successful IBOs.
    Let me CLUE you in on something: Diamond is not the only measure of success in Amway. You make money at 300 and at 1000 and at 4000 and platimum (you can make over 10,000 a month at platimum ). Matt’s dad & mom make over $160,000 and they’re not even emerald.
    Duncans have THOUSANDS who make give & six digit incomes at platimum and above.

  430. June 4, 2018 2:13 pm

    No, you have net losses at 300 and 100 because of the cost of WWDB premiere club, voicemail and functions.

  431. June 4, 2018 2:14 pm

    Ever hear of Dan & Sandy Yuen , Rod & Penny Alcott, RANDY & Sandy Sears, David & Debbie Shores, David & DarleneDuncan, etc? All G Duncan diamonds
    Ever hear of BOB & Shelley Kummer (David Duncan diamonds — BTW even while he was in a coma and after he died the checks still kept coming!!))

    Samir Atallah
    Ever hear of Dean kosage, Wolgamott, (Brad Duncan diamonds). Ever hear of TRACEY & Kimberly Eaton, Scott& Chris Harimoto b(Wolgamott diamonds)??

    There’s literally a dozen diamonds downline from Greg (most of whom came from Brad’s business). Should Brad apologize to Eaton or Kummer for helping them get free?

  432. June 4, 2018 2:20 pm

    At 300 PV you make $300 . Cost of Corr is $300 or less so you break even or make money (*& you’re not supposed to go 300 and stay there. Brad’s income doubled every month until he made $4000 affter one year. )
    Matt made $2000 after 7 month. Teresa’s income was over $3000 a month after 7 months. Matt made $9000 after 2 years. (I guess you didn’t get that part about the penny doubled? )

  433. June 5, 2018 9:27 am

    David Shores also had a house foreclosed on. I guess he learned from Greg LOL.

    Seriously dude, those diamonds were all there when I was in Amway 20 years ago. Where are the new diamonds? Not to mention Wolgamott and Kosage and some other quit. There are less diamonds now than before.

  434. June 5, 2018 9:44 am

    Nope. Kosage didn’t quit. He just got an ego and d started his own system
    Brad W got divorced and she (Leslie) is doing better than ever.
    BTW since you QUIT Leslie has mentored Tracey & Kimberly Eaton as newer diamonds (what was he supposed to do? Stay broke as a stock broker? Now he makes the same or more as he did jn the NFL. Ahem..)
    In the meantime there’s Dean & Marcie Whalen, Trevor & Lexi Baker, Tu & Venessa Crandell, Lief & Bonnie Johnson , Ryder & Nicole Erickson, Pete & Rachel Hirshelman, and Mandy Yamamoto (built it single to diamond while her husband built his own construction business in Hawaii)

    I wonder if Mandy Yamamoto had trouble paying for Core like you did while flying from Hawaii to functions on the mainland? 🤔

  435. June 5, 2018 11:34 am

    Where does it say in the brochure that Diamond is the only measure of success in the Amway business?
    Freedom comes at Ruby and emerald.

  436. June 5, 2018 12:46 pm

    So in 20+ years since I left Amway, there’s been 7 or 8 new WWDB diamonds while some of the existing Diamonds left WWDB. Brad Wolgamott and Kosage. Ron Puryear passed away, That doesn’t sound like a lot of success over that many years.

    If you want to talk about levels of success, how many people joined and quit since 1997 or so? Millions upon millions?

  437. June 5, 2018 2:45 pm

    You’d be surprised. It’s less than you think. “Millions upon millions”? Gimme a g break.
    Not even a million registered IBOs in the USA.

    Most people starving just to buy the products like.

    And I don’t really give a rip how many quit or FAILED. I’m more interested in the ones who succeeded. Like Pete & Rachel. Now in EDC qualification. (he didn’t quit or make excuses like you did. He’s in his 30s and creating over $500,000 a year from his business (he retired 2 years ago).

  438. June 5, 2018 3:08 pm

    Of course it’s important to know how many people failed. If 99.9% are failing, what makes you think you will be one of the few who will make it? Lots of people hope and pray to win the power ball lottery but very few do.

    Knowing that the odds of winning power ball is around 100 million to 1, I know it’s a bad investment of my money. Just like knowing if 1 in 400 go platinum in amway (source: then I know my chances are very slim of reaching a significant level in Amway.

  439. June 5, 2018 3:16 pm

    GENIUS! in order for me to go platinum I need to help 100-200 other IBOs mane money and earn PV checks & retail profit.

    In order for me to go Diamond I need to help (20) others get a PV check and six go platinum.

  440. June 5, 2018 5:41 pm

    I’m not the 1 in 400 😉.
    I’m the 1 in 10,000😎

  441. June 6, 2018 12:25 pm

    To go platinum, you don’t have to help 100-200 people make money. They could all be losing money but as long as they move enough volume (even if losing money), you can still go platinum.

  442. June 7, 2018 8:27 am

    Did you just assume I’m going to personally sponsor 200 people and they all at 60 PV or how did you come up with the formula of everybody (except the platimum)”losing money”?
    Wwdb averages 50-150 IBOs per platimum BTW (did they teach you 150 PV or 300 PV personal use and retail??)

    I did over 100 PV on this order cuz I needed all the stuff. Brushing my teeth or taking my supplements is not optional

  443. June 13, 2018 8:52 am

    Who said you have to personally sponsor 200 people? You sponsor and others may or may not sponsor. As long as they move some volume before they quit, you will receive credit for that volume but it doesn’t mean any of those downline made a profit. They could all lose money if they attend functions and purchase the WWDB premiere package.

    That’s how the diamonds make their money. From the churn, regardless of whether anyone else goes diamond or not.

    Where are all the new diamonds from WWDB? You named 1 or 2 but I’ve been out of WWDB for 20 years. Shouldn’t there be hundreds if the system actually worked?

  444. June 13, 2018 9:16 am

    So always gonna sell off all their planes and yachts and manufacturing facilities and cancel all those luxury trips now? 🤔

  445. June 13, 2018 9:23 am

    What churn?

  446. June 13, 2018 9:45 am

    Well there’s several dozen new platinums from wwdb. who showed up (“in ” Amway) this week for the new platimum conference (you know, that trip Amway pays for? ). Took some nice pictures at their dinner in the hangar and posed in front of the jet.

    As for new Diamonds

    A) Diamond is not the only Mark or indicator of success in that business.
    B) Duncan is no longer a diamond. They’re founders crown ambassador.
    C) just a few new Diamonds (one of whom was like 12 years old when you QUIT). TREVOR Baker. Founders Double Diamonds. Million dollars income. Passed up mom & dad.

    Tracy & Kimberly Eaton. He was busy tackling runners in the NFL while you were sucking your thumb at “4000”

    Mandy Yamamoto. Hawaii’s newest Diamond. Downline from Tsuruda.

    Francis & Claire Cho

    Ty & Vanessa Crandell

    leif & Bonnie Johnson
    Nam-Deuk Kim & Jungyin Lee

    Jay & Jeong Lee

    Dean & Marci Whalen. New leaders out of Canada.

    I’m not sure but I think that’s more than a couple. This doesn’t include all the new emeralds saphires rubies (& those dozens of brand new platinums who just went to Ada on an all expenses paid trip to “be in” Amway )

    You were never “in” Amway. You didn’t qualify.

  447. June 13, 2018 10:10 am

    You in you may have a point (about the HUNDREDS 🤔) if, in fact, the purpose of “the system” is to make you go Diamond. I mean, spring leadership was about 80% capacity at a 10,000 seat arena in Las Vegas This year they had to book a larger venue

    As for “how many at family reunion”? Which one? 🤔. Bakers just split off and got their own family reunion.

    But not everybody wants to go Diamond. There’s quitters like you who never go past 4000. There’s my own sponsor who went direct & then QUIT. And these dozens & dozens of doctors, dentists, veterinarian and other professional people who love the extra income at platimum or Ruby or emeralds.
    Not everybody wants to be a leader. Obviously you aren’t. And I hated the idea of people following me. But I want the results so I was willing to LEARN

  448. June 13, 2018 10:51 am

    That’s not a lot of new diamonds from WWDB and some of them sound like they’re not from the US. If the system actually worked, there should be multiple new diamonds each year. Instead it sounds like in all of Amway, there might be a new diamond every other year. When you factor in that some diamonds are no longer around (Kosage for example), where’s the growth?

    Why are there fewer people at functions than when I was an IBO? There were 15,000 or more at family reunion at the Rose Garden in 1997.

  449. June 13, 2018 10:52 am

    Sure, maybe not everyone wants to go diamond but I doubt that “most people” join to wind up with business losses. Yet that is the result for the vast majority who get involved with WWDB.

  450. June 13, 2018 2:41 pm

    AGAIN you don’t LISTEN or Pay attention very well!

    I said LAS VEGAS Spring leadership. (One of many sites, including Honolulu). Had to get an arena TWICE the size as before

    As for family reunion…which one are you talking about?? When Diamonds GRT big they have their own family reunion. (So yeah the previous one might be smaller now temporarily since a diamond boke off).

    Nobody said kosage quit Amway. He wanted to be a rockstar so he set up his own “system””.

    Geez you’re dense.

  451. June 13, 2018 3:45 pm

    Kosage and Wolgmott left WWDB. If the system worked so well and produced results, why would these folks leave?

    And since Amway revenue went plunging down, it only makes sense that venues for functions would be smaller.

  452. June 13, 2018 8:14 pm

    Dean had an ego (& how’s his “system” working out?)
    Brad W left because his wife kicked him out. So he was living in the guest house and she took over the business and has since remarried and is doing just FINE.

  453. June 13, 2018 8:19 pm

    Most of the decline in revenue was due to circumstances in China.

    North America has had double digits growth.
    Even if Amway as a whole is doing differently WWDb is selling out venues. The hall is TWICE the size here at Santa Clara and STILL no room if you’re not early you gotta stand the whole time.

    People were getting turned away at the last San Diego regional.

  454. June 14, 2018 11:56 am

    Brad Wolgamott used to teach that Amway/WWDB saves marriages. Hypocrite?

    How many are in attendance at these functions? FED had 40,000 in attendance when I was there in Seattle at the (then) Kingdome. Family reunion had 15,000+ at the Rose Garden. I doubt that it’s gotten bigger when Amway’s revenues have shrunk significantly.

    The US is still Amway’s flagship market.

  455. June 14, 2018 4:09 pm

    Yes Brad W was a HUGE disappoint. As was Kosage. (I guess he thought he could make more money running his OWN “system”.)

    Say have you ever thought about doing IT WITHOUT the tapes/ CDs/ functions?

    It is optional you know . Just show the plan. Sell the products. Use the products. Show the plan. Sell the products.

  456. June 15, 2018 10:41 am

    We were told “tools are optional but so is success” Or, Greg Duncan is a multi millionaire and he believe that tools are vital but you can try to succeed where nobody ever has.

    Those kinds of statements do not suggest that tools are optional. They are defacto required.

    Can you name anyone who went diamond without the system? With all the lawsuits filed (diamonds versus diamonds), anyone who started to succeed without tools would be sabotaged and de-edified by the tenured diamonds.

  457. June 15, 2018 10:43 am

    Can you tell me why Howie Danzik (it was on his website) claimed to have built his diamondship as a single and then married Teresa Tsuruda when I sat in attendance in person at the Howie and Susan Danzik emerald function?

    BTW, you can add Howie to the list of WWDB diamonds who are divorced.

  458. June 15, 2018 10:49 am

    Dude you just answered your own question. He was Ruby and emerald with SUZAN. Then she cheated on him and he divorcio & went Diamond on his own. ..credits the success of his current buscarhiswoman. current business to hos awesome marriage to a great

  459. June 15, 2018 10:51 am

    Howie is NOT divorced. He is currently still married after 20+ years 😉

  460. June 15, 2018 11:55 am

    How is a divorcee now married to Teresa. You assume that Susan cheated but nobody asked for her side of the story. Why did Howie’s website say he built his business as a single? Lie much?

  461. June 15, 2018 11:56 am

    By the way, Howie went diamond with Susan and then he divorced and married Teresa.

  462. June 15, 2018 12:03 pm

    Quote: “””My son was brainwashed and beguiled by Howie Danzick. Get your kids away from that man as soon as they start talking about him!!! First, Danzick tells people you will be rich in one year, then after one year they say 20 years. He likes to tell people, you’re just like me! Therefore, you will be successful because you have the same drive. He lies to people about “being retired” when he charges some $246 for stupid conventions in Colorado. That’s called WORKING Howie. He must maintain his delusional believers lest his income go down. That’s not being retired.”””


  463. June 15, 2018 12:09 pm

    He dumped his cheating wife & built it diamond single.

  464. June 15, 2018 12:10 pm

    He went diamond with Susan in 1995. He later divorced and married teresa. Are you re-writing history so it fits your narrative?

  465. June 15, 2018 12:16 pm

    So wha loser wrote that?

    (Howie spends 4 MOS a year at this SECOND home at coalina btw. No suits. No meetings. That ain’t working. That’s FREEDOM. Right now they’re on a $50,000 trip to bankock. That ain’t working. )

  466. June 15, 2018 12:20 pm

    “”AnonymousFebruary 13, 2013 at 4:48 PM
    I was in the Howie Danzik group for about 10 years, 95 to 05. I can remember countless times how I was told by diamonds that if they want to check growth they look at tool sales, they don’t care about product sales. That will always follow. Well I figured it out. Finally!! About 07 I cleaned out any overpriced Amway crap in my house. I threw out boxes and boxes of dumbass so-called motivational tapes from standing order. Most still unwrapped. I figured out that if I had just bought silver coins (it was my first plan from a book on investing I had picked up) I would have over 100K worth right now!! I figured 1 tape, 2 tapes the next week plus all the stupid books and major functions and with silver at 5 bucks an oz at the time, DAMMIT!! Makes me wanna kick Howie’s and Britt’s ass. Or my own for not figuring it out sooner.””

  467. June 15, 2018 12:57 pm

    You SAID he was an emerald at the seminar you went to.

  468. June 15, 2018 1:05 pm

    an idiota . Pays $5 for tapes abd doesn’t even unwrap it. (Then claims he could have $100,000 on “silver coins” for that same cost.)

    So WHY didn’t Howie have a problem with the tapes? 🤔

  469. June 15, 2018 1:07 pm

    Yes, he was an emerald with Susan and later went diamond with Susan.

    Then Howie made up the story of Susan cheating and married Teresa.

  470. June 15, 2018 1:11 pm

    So you’re saying Howie divorced Suzan to marry Teresa? 🤔

  471. June 15, 2018 1:14 pm

    Howie & Suzan were never diamonds.

  472. June 15, 2018 3:03 pm

    “””Howie qualified Diamond in 1995 while married to his first wife, Susan. They divorced not long after qualifying.”””,_Howie_%26_Theresa

    FYI, Amwaywiki is run by people who are pro-Amway.

  473. June 15, 2018 9:38 pm

    “Amway wiki” is your source? 🙄😁😁😁

    I know for a fact he was emerald when they divorced. — and he didn’t meet Teresa until couple years later

  474. June 18, 2018 8:41 am

    Amway wiki is run by people like you who defend Amway to the death.

  475. June 18, 2018 8:31 pm

    “Amway wiki” is running by nerds!

  476. June 19, 2018 10:39 am

    If that’s your operable term, then go for it.

    Amway Wiki is run by pro-Amway people. Do you see tons of negative information on there?

  477. June 19, 2018 10:44 am

    I don’t waste my time on there.
    You’re much more entertaining 😉😁

  478. June 19, 2018 11:42 am

    I guess the truth is entertaining, even if you don’t believe it. 🙂

  479. June 19, 2018 11:58 am

    No. Watching you respond like a cat with a laser pointer is amusing. TRUTH is the light I shine. You are the cat 😉

  480. June 19, 2018 3:33 pm

    A fraction of 1% of Amway IBOs reach platinum. The diamonds make significant income selling voicemail and other tools, regardless of whether their downline makes a cent.

    That’s the truth that you don’t see.

  481. June 19, 2018 4:25 pm

    Oh so NOW you’re good at math? If everyone does 100 PV how many IBOs does it take to do 7500? (I can’t do hardly less than 100 in personal use except in my brokest months. )
    If you use your own product and get 10 customers like your supposed to (or 50 PV) guess how much PV that is?

    We currently teach between 50-100 IBOs for silver since you’re supposed to do 60 in retail & 100 in personal use. It is IMPOSIBLE for a married couple to do less than 100 in personal use..if they are loyal to their own business

    EVEN if you factor on the slackers & the wholesale members (who don’t do 100% p u and don’t do WWDB you’re right. 100-200 IBOs per platinum = <1% is platimum. GENIUS.

  482. June 19, 2018 5:01 pm

    Nobody has to buy any tools or voicemail. They’re optional. . if you’re doing 150 or 300 PV (with 50-100 PV retaile) then Kate & membership cost you nothing. If you got 4 clients on just 3 products per month you’re making over $300

  483. June 20, 2018 5:03 pm

    I just paid $15 on my mobile app for this weekend’s rally. (No more waiting in line to handle checks or cash. Just check in on my Android). My guest will get in FREE.
    (I wonder if I’ll go broke from that 🤔. Do you think Dean Whalen & Marcy – he’s a new Diamond you insist never happened-. Do you think they’re buying a new house or Hawaiian vacation off that ? )
    Should I ask him how big his check is from the function? I mean. $15. How many Ferraris does that buy? 🤔

  484. Randall permalink
    June 22, 2018 8:20 am

    The fact that so many comments on here are about money just proves the fact that you guys don’t know what this organization is truly about. Of course this business wasn’t the best, name 1 business that doesn’t have negative aspects. As time goes on, things get better. I know that I’m very grateful for the opportunity I’ve been given. If you don’t think this is a great opportunity, then don’t do it. Simple as that. We still need employees, so not everyone can be successfully and free.

  485. June 23, 2018 1:20 pm

    And what about newer Diamonds Dean & Marci Whalen who’ve raised of diamonds, emeralds & saphires (they just returned from the $50,0000 Thailand trip for Growth Council qualifiers).

    Paid off $56,000,0000.00 in debt through their organization. (Should they apologize for that? Really? Helping people get FREE?)

  486. July 8, 2018 8:14 pm

    Hahaha. EXACTLY Randall. Wanna quit? Go ahead & quit. As for me? I’d rather have the lifestyle & impact like Brad Duncan.

  487. July 9, 2018 9:02 am

    Really, the Whalens paid $56 million? I highly doubt they’ve even made that much from Amway. Do the math for God’s sake.

  488. July 9, 2018 9:03 am

    $15 times thousands of downline equals big money.

  489. July 9, 2018 10:12 am

    Half the attendees are guests & platimum don’t pay. Also there’s you know uhm. The rental of the convention center, the airfares & hotels for the speakers ($300 a night for hotels here) and something called a system which includes employee salaried at home office. The actual building cost, the investment into new tools, web services and paying the cost of functions that bring in less than the cost of renting the facility.

  490. July 9, 2018 10:20 am

    Gosh you know you REALLY have a hard time understanding or paying attention to what people say (no WONDER you FAILED ).

    What I SAID WAS “through their organization”.
    Meaning:. From all the people in their organization making a PROFIT they paid off all that debt which I mentioned (they are, by the way, making seven figures off their business. 16 years into it).

    So. Does your JOB pay you seven figures???

  491. July 9, 2018 1:09 pm

    No matter how you slice it, the tools and functions are a huge profit center for the diamonds. It has higher margins than Amway stuff and only the higher ups get a cut of the tool and function profits.

    I don’t have a job. I’m retired.

  492. July 9, 2018 1:21 pm

    Uhm. No. How much do you think it costs to rent the main hall of the convention center? Plus nearly $1000 for air tickets + over $400 a night for hotel and then there’s the full time salaried staff at wwdb and the building ain’t free (they had to build itand keep the utilities on). Some local functions barely have 200 attendees. How much you think they make off THAT?

    You do Know that at Ruby you get up to 31% + retail margins of 20-40% right?

    (Like you would know how much money a diamond supposedly makes off a function. You’re not even a platinum 😂😂😂😂😂)

  493. July 9, 2018 4:07 pm

    I was able to obtain a WWDB form from a former pin that explained how the diamonds got a cut from the functions. Of course it had to do with the number of people in attendance. That’s why they wanted you to note your upline diamond on the tickets in the past. They may have devised a new system now.

  494. July 9, 2018 4:14 pm

    Yeah. Aha. And what about all the people paying csh for the function?

  495. July 9, 2018 4:49 pm

    What about the people paying cash? They still get a ticket don’t they?

  496. July 10, 2018 10:51 am

    You really drank a full sip of WWDB kool aid.

  497. July 10, 2018 11:52 am

    FIRST of al there IS NO “victim”(typical victim mentality 🙄). Gee I wonder of Tony Robbins attendees are “victims” 🤔. I understand he and Grant Cardone charge ALOT more.

    Second of all you’re the one complaining & saying that you did something wrong not me.

  498. July 11, 2018 9:56 am

    I didn’t do anything wrong. The WWDB leaders are liars and scammers. They have never been held accountable and continue to profit handsomely from unsuspecting people who hope to make their fortunes on Amway only to realize it’s a scam and quit. Once in a while you have tenacious former members who will speak up to warn others on the pitfalls and the lies that upline commonly use.

  499. July 11, 2018 9:59 am

    Hahahaha. Does Barnes & Noble know it’s a “scam”? What about Apple or Best buy or Under Armour? Somebody better tell them quick 😉

  500. July 11, 2018 10:03 am

    Barnes and Noble, Apple and Best Buy don’t rely on employee purchases to make profits, nor do their managers make a significant income selling training to their employees.

    The fact that you even make that arguments shows your lack of understanding of the Amway business and business in general.

  501. July 11, 2018 10:12 am

    Hey bubba! Barnes & Noble got more revenue directed to their site from Amway than from.anynither source . I bought my suit from Frederick menswear. Did they know it’s a scam?? 🤔

  502. July 11, 2018 10:26 am

    Barnes and Noble got more revenue directed to the site from Amway than any other source?

    Prove it.

  503. July 11, 2018 10:50 am

    Actually was said by the Barnes and Noble CEO when they first came on board with Amway or quixtsr or whatever they called it.
    He’s no longer with the company. They’ve just fired their fourth CEO in 4 years and turns out they’re struggling (& no longer benefiting from a relationship with Amway. )

    So. Which of the other 60 stores would you like me to lost for you? Josh A Bank?
    1800 flowers? Bloomingdale’s? Disney? Footlocker?
    (Do they all know they’re affiliated with a “scam”?)

  504. July 11, 2018 1:29 pm

    So you cite a nearly 20 year old unverified statement as fact? Sounds about right for Amway folks.

    Why do you call these stores partners? You sell their stuff but they don’t sell Amway stuff. Sounds like Amway folks are just cheap non paid sales people who work on commission only.

  505. July 11, 2018 1:37 pm

    It was in their testimonial page years ago.

    (So do you have your proof of all your claim about diamonds getting rich off $20 function? )

  506. July 11, 2018 2:13 pm

    What a NERD! See you didn’t EVEN get it!

    Go on the amway website & look up “partner stores”. Geez Luiz.

    I’m not an “amway sales rep” (There is no such thing!). I AM, however an independent sales rep with a couple of advertising companies I work with. (Last thing I need is another “part time” sales job.

    Gimme a break.
    You’re completely ridiculously.

    Stop embarrassing YOURSELF!!

    (Is a car dealer an “commission only sales rep?”. Is a Budweiser distributor an “unpaid commission only sales rep?”)

    What about a UPS store owner or Subway franchisee?

    You haven’t EVEN got a clue! (No WONDER you were unsuccessful)..

  507. July 12, 2018 9:40 am

    I never made such a claim that diamonds get rich off $20 functions. But add up the profit from $20 function, book of the month, WWDB premiere membership, standing orders, open meetings, Dream Night, Family reunion, FED and Leadership Conference, now you’re talking significant money. (And yeah, some functions may have been renamed as Summer conference or whatever)

  508. July 12, 2018 9:44 am

    You call it “partner stores” but it’s a one way street. You get to sell their products, at your own time and expense. If you sell enough of it, you earn a small commission. If you don’t sell enough (100 pv), you get nothing. That’s an awesome deal for these “partner” stores. the Amway IBOs take all the risk and time to sell stuff and if nothing gets sold, the partner stores don’t pay anything. It’s a no brainer for the partner stores.

    You’re basically a commission only sales person for Amway. You take all the risk and Amway pays if you hit certain quotas. Not to mention the Amway IBOs do all the recruiting for more sales people, also at their own time and expense.

    If you attend a function where you paid to attend, you are paying to learn how to be motivated to sell Amway products and recruit more Amway representatives. It can’t get any better for Amway.

  509. July 12, 2018 9:58 am

    Dude seriously?? Nobody but the publisher makes money off books. WWDB salls them for less than the retail cost.

    Gimme a break 🙄

  510. July 12, 2018 10:42 am

    I’m sorry (what’s the “risk” with partner stores??)

    I bought a suit. I get a bonus check. If 1000 guys in my organization buy a suit I get 20,000 PV. So. What’s my risk again??

  511. July 12, 2018 12:25 pm

    WWDB selling books below retail cost doesn’t mean they don’t make a profit. Please tell me you knew this.

  512. July 12, 2018 12:30 pm

    There’s no risk for the partner stores. You buy a suit. Fine. More than likely it will cost more than the cost at a store, where you can actually try it on first.

    The risk is the cost associated with being an IBO, unless you’re the only customer of your Amway business. You do the recruiting and training of your downline and your time and expense.

    If you don’t sell anything, the partner stores don’t pay anything. If you sell a quota (100 PV), then you get a small bonus.

    It would be great to have 1000 downline buy a suit. If I were a diamond, I would be happier to sell those 1000 people WWDB premiere club, standing order, regional and major function tickets, KATE subscriptions, book of the month, and tickets to open meetings. That’s where the real money is.

  513. Tony permalink
    July 12, 2018 12:30 pm

    LOL, I wonder how Barnes & Noble makes money by selling books since only the publisher makes a profit from books.

    Does anyone really want to take advice and be counseled by Malachy Smith when he makes asinine statements like that as well as the Barnes & Noble comment?

  514. July 12, 2018 12:52 pm

    Dude really?? You nerds always gotta take everything out of context (of course).
    Barnes & nobles dells books at wholesale or retail?

    WWDB buys directly from the publisher or distributor & we pay LESS that you do at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

  515. July 12, 2018 12:55 pm

    . Just for you (tiny). Let me explain it again.
    (In the case of WWDB) nobody makes money except the publisher and/ or distributor.
    Get it now??

  516. July 12, 2018 1:01 pm

    You completely ignored my comment about the partner stores.

    Again, how do you know about WWDB financials? You keep making claims about so and so diamond’s income and financials and now about WWDB.

    Have you seen this information yourself or are you parroting something the diamond on stage told you?

  517. July 12, 2018 1:03 pm

    Your comment about the partner stores was beyond stupid. (There. Didn’t ignore it. Feel better??)

  518. July 12, 2018 2:24 pm

    Right. When you run out of facts, attack the messenger, not the message.

    You inspired me to write a blog post about partner stores:

  519. July 12, 2018 2:38 pm

    Blah blah blah blog post. What blog post about partner stores?

    You apparently do not EVEN know how affiliated marketing or partnerships work.

    SMH 🙄

    So. Can you buy Nike gear or a suit and get paid for it? 🤔. I can & I do. Am wearing the pants I bought right now. When I buy a keyboard or mixer from guitar center I’ll get paid a bonus on it.

  520. Tony permalink
    July 12, 2018 3:24 pm

    Oh, well pizza face, that’s not what you wrote the first time.

    So you get paid a tiny commission to buy things from partner stores like Nike. So it seems that Joecool does in fact know how partner companies and affiliate marketing work and YOU don’t. BWHAHAHAHA!! This guy is a joke and a troll!

  521. July 12, 2018 3:31 pm

    (yawn). Blah blah blog. 😒.
    You made/ reinforced our point in the first paragraph. (Other than that you did not contribute anything of value or interest to your argument or society at large.)

    As for “time & effort” or “risk” I do not nor have I ever embarked on a mission to “sell products”.

    Whatdyuthink I stand out there on the embarcadero approaching tourists saying “hey you wanna buy a watch? How about a suit? I’ve got some Nike gear for ya.
    Anybody need some under armour? I’ve got some good deals here. .
    1-800-flowers. Get your mother’s day order right here! ”
    Gimme a break dude.
    No wonder you failed! You don’t even have a clue how Amway model works or the power of leveraging purchase power & compound I.

    Typical E quadrant job person.
    What a ditwit

    Nobody CARES Aabout your stupid “blog”

  522. July 12, 2018 3:49 pm

    “pizza face”? So what are you like 16 yrs old or something?
    “Attack the messenger”? Is that what you said??🤔

    Yes, you’re so brilliant! That is indeed how it works! (If I’m going to Jos A Bank to buy a suit I may as well get paid a bonus on that!
    (20 pts for example on one suit. 10000 guys copy me through my organization boom that’s 20,000 PV. Boom! I just made 31 % bonus on that suit plus whatever percentage it adds up to on $50,0000 BV.
    (Need help with the math?)

  523. July 12, 2018 4:45 pm

    If you have downline, then certainly you have spent time and probably some money. Selling products and the opportunity also takes time, and since you are on the “system”, you are spending money. You do the recruiting and selling at your own time and expense.

    Partner stores don’t pony up a cent until you have sold something for them – using your time and expense. It’s a great deal for partner stores. I can see why partner stores would like Amway. You pay nothing unless the Amway sales force moves your product.

    And if the Amway diamonds train their people right, they teach them product loyalty, even to partner stores.

  524. July 12, 2018 4:48 pm

    I get paid for buying stuff too. I have a cash back credit card which pays me 1% for most products, but 3% on gas purchases and 2% at restaurants and airlines. I have no minimum and I don’t need training or downline.

    I charged my flight to San Francisco this coming October so I get a nice bonus for that.

    And I don’t have to pay taxes on by credit card rebate whereas your Amway “bonus” is taxable income.

  525. July 18, 2018 2:28 pm

    Comment about Amway/WWDB:

    “”I know World Wide Dream Builders extremely well. Brad Duncan, his brother Greg Duncan, Leslie Wolgammot, Ron Puryear, Dean and Marcie Whalen, I’ve been around that group for years, and getting suckered into their spell and losing years of my youth is a big regret of mine. MLM’s don’t work, but what WWDB tries to do is something a bit more insidious than the regular pyramid scheme.

    They try to appeal to a different crowd by making it about “mentorship” and “leadership,” as well as a bunch of other intangibles such as helping improve your relationships as well as paying off debt. It fools people into thinking that this isn’t your normal MLM, that it’s somehow more than that…like a spiritual cause if you will.

    They use language such as how “its important for this business to go from your head to your heart,” stressing the importance of these weekend long brainwashing conferences. Every challenge, adversity, or negative opinion from someone about the business – instead of being a sign that MLM’s don’t work – get’s twisted into being perceived as a sign that your hitting “resistance,” and that your success is right around the corner.

    If you were like me then you are going through an “interview/qualification” process, from first “meet and greet” where you get a book (a Robert Kiyosaki book or some others), followed by a second meeting, then a couple of “board plans” or presentations, and if you get suckered in, they will offer to do a “budget session,” where they look over your financials to make sure you won’t be going broke by doing this business. Why? Because maxing out your credit cards is a shocking enough wake up call for most people to snap out of the brainwashing. If you are financially stable, then it will take much longer for you to quit the business.

    At first, you might also wonder why the f*** would an MLM want to go to such an effort to recruit a person. Why not just plop them into a hotel conference rather than doing 2-6 coffee meetings over several weeks? Simple, it weeds people out who aren’t going to stick around. They specifically target people who are loyal and have the psychological predisposition to stick along for the long haul and get milked out of their money – all the while feeling like they’re apart of a special family.

    People lose years of their lives because of sh*t like this – I know a former cross-line who killed himself after snapping out of the spell, and I was quite close to that path myself.””

  526. July 18, 2018 4:07 pm

    Boy you really don’t get it. Do you? FIRST of all, we get anywhere from 3% to 31 %

    Second of ALL you can’t duplicate that credit card rebate CAN YOU?

    DUDE I GET 1000 IBOS on the amway Visa card and 3000 points! (That’s 18% last I checked).

  527. July 18, 2018 4:23 pm

    What a bunch of LOSERS (SERIOUSLY? SUICIDE over amway? Dude you got issues. If you SERIOUSLY had anything better on tour life you wouldn’t kill yourself over failing at Amway. That’s retarded.

    (Now I’m not making light over suicidal thoughts. Been there myself (usually a woman or loss of a Loved one).

    But I guess you can spend “years” around the winners on this business and go NOWHERE?? THAT must be a special kinda stupid or a new brand of LOSER.

    Guess it only worked for people like Dean& Marci & Pete & Rachel huh?

    SMH 🙄

  528. July 18, 2018 4:35 pm


    It comes down to this: If you profit from the tools and functions, you are the “haves”. If you don’t make money from the tools and functions, you’re with the “have nots”. People attending functions are for the most part, losing money or making nothing.

  529. July 18, 2018 5:04 pm

    Well, “Joe”

    You’re right. If you run this business (or any other business) without any clients you “have not” any money (except for the HUNDREDS or thousands every year in what you saved by buying wholesale (you probably did NOT have any clients and did not open a separate checking account like they TEACH).

    YES, Ron Puryear taught it does take about $2000-3000 a year to be on core, which you PAY FOR out of your retail profits and savings (I guess you MISSED that part hah).

    Shoot I got a $750 bonus check at 2500. After paying out my downline I kept over half. That did not include my retail profits or wholesale savings.

    You know retail and personal use and 2/10 of CORE. DID you miss that part?

    What do you think brich & Jay had to do? Invest in equipment & raw materials, facilities, employees, distribution centers, computer’s etc. (wonder if they complained about investing in THEIR business or “, losing money”.
    What about Jeff bezos. His company lost lots of money until they finally turned a profit just a few years ago)

    Netflix is STILL losing money?? Wanna invest in THAT??)

  530. July 20, 2018 9:47 am

    Your argument fall apart when you actually try to sell Amway products. Why would I pay $10 for 8 ounces of Satinique shampoo when I can get a quart of shampoo at WalMart for $2.50?

    Why would I but glister when I can get three times more toothpaste from Costco for the same price?

    So Amway sounds great in theory but the reality sucks.

  531. July 20, 2018 12:06 pm

    Sorry but your theories suck & your premise is hopelessly flawed to Begin with reveal your apparently fundamental lack of understanding of the how & WHY of this whole business model

    (* First of all I’ve been trained to understand- we don’t “try to sell amway products”. I put effort every day in my primary business as an advertisement rep to sell ad space (* & I get paid quite nicely when I do and now make over $1000 every month from repeat clients & residuals). Last thing I want is a “part time sales Job” – that’s NOT what we do!

    While I’m sorry for your fundamental lack of understanding of the what WHY & how of the amway business model I wish you luck & enjoyment in your retirement.

    As for me I’ll be free at 53 and enjoy my repeat & residuals from my advertising business & will make equal or greater income from my large network of consumers in my Amway business.

    While you seem like a nice guy & your comments are amusing & entertaining this page (for some Reason) is horribly programmed clumsy & slow & I don’t have time to waste here while I build up my advertising business & expand my network of clients & entrepreneurs.

    Later dude

  532. July 23, 2018 10:35 am

    Advertising business? Wow, that’s a new spin on an Amway business. I think a better description is a product pyramid. The money flows up to the top from the rank and file IBOs on the bottom via product and tools/function purchases.

    You obviously have been indoctrinated into believing what your upline tells you such as questionable income claims (which is against Amway rules) and you apparently believe that buying from yourself makes you a profit (it doesn’t) and you believe that Amway is a good business opportunity even when Amway’s own disclosures clearly shows that Amway sucks as a business opportunity.

  533. July 23, 2018 11:02 am

    Dude you going full retard or what?? I didn’t say my advertising business had anything to do with Amway. SMH 🙄
    You know there are lawyers, doctors, bank managers and business owners who ALSO own an amway business??
    I have an advertising business with my longest client signed 9 years ago. Made over $1500 just two weeks ago from repeat/ renewal customers + a residual check last week from the autorenewals (those are long term clients who pay monthly). Got nothing whatsoever to do with Amway.

    My gosh you’re stupid. Didn’t wanna say it but, yes, you failed the stupid test.

  534. July 23, 2018 11:40 am

    Are you proud to have pass the stupid test? I thought passing meant well, just sayin’.

    You actually believe that buying your own stuff results in profits. It’s not, it’s just smoke and mirrors from the WWDB leaders. Amway’s disclosures clearly show what a crappy business opportunity they are promoting. You just don’t see it.

    You’d be better served to focus your your own actual business.

  535. July 23, 2018 11:54 am

    Dude I’m gonna buy a $2 snack bar from Starbucks or Safeway who keeps the profits?
    That $5 Scope from Safeway? (Only lasts a month). Mine lasts 3 x longer. Who keeps the profits?

  536. July 23, 2018 12:00 pm

    WHY would I buy scope for $5. when mine lasts 3 x longer & works better?

    I can buy a suit from Jos A Banks from their store or buy the same suit from my network & get paid PV BV

  537. July 23, 2018 12:06 pm

    Then shop at Walmart & stay broke loser

    My clients sought me out for the Glister & the XS.

  538. July 23, 2018 12:21 pm

    When you buy from Safeway, Safeway makes a profit,. When you buy from Starbucks, Starbucks makes a profit. When you buy from Amway, Amway makes a profit.

    Is this too difficult for you to understand?

    Now you resort to the “loser” comments. LOL. This loser is a retired millionaire.

  539. July 23, 2018 12:27 pm

    Okay. So. You’re my Amway business owner & I buy a case of xs for $29 or a box of chocolatenut bars for $25. Who makes a profit?

  540. July 23, 2018 12:31 pm

    Yeahhh right. “retired millionaire” crying over a $5 toothpaste or a $5 CD or $10 book?
    That’s a good one. Hahahaha. Where do you park your yacht?

  541. July 23, 2018 1:01 pm

    “””. You’re my Amway business owner & I buy a case of xs for $29 or a box of chocolatenut bars for $25. Who makes a profit?”””

    Amway makes a profit.

  542. July 23, 2018 1:04 pm

    Who said I cry over toothpaste or a book? I buy what I need.

    If you know anything about wealth, people who are millionaires don’t need to stand in front of an audience and pretend to be well off. I certainly don’t.

    The diamonds have to because if they appeared to have mundane middle class lifestyles, which I suspect many of them have, it would not be enticing enough to be able to get new recruits to sign up for Amway.

  543. July 23, 2018 1:07 pm

    Ok. So Safeway pays retail or wholesale for the chocolate bars?

  544. July 23, 2018 1:20 pm

    What relevance is that to Amway?

    You can buy “wholesale” from Amway but if you buy it from yourself, Amway made a profit and you just became a customer of Amway. Your Amway business makes a profit only if your sell to a customer who pays more than your cost for a product.

    Buying from yourself doesn’t net you a profit.

  545. July 23, 2018 1:27 pm

    Okay. Right off the website:

    Safeway. 6 oz Colgate. 6.09 *+ delivery charge. Amway has FREE shipping for clients.

    Glister 6.75 oz. $4.50 retail. You’r my ibo you pay $3.60. Who makes a profit?

    Dude I have several pages with of invoices where I saved $30, $ 60 or $80 by paying WHOLESALE for that order.

    I pay $4.50 at retail & save $.59 + get more and better quality product. (How am I losing money again???)

  546. July 23, 2018 1:28 pm

    Scenario 1: If you have $5 and you buy a can of XS for $2 (wholesale), you have a can of XS and $3.

    Scenario 2: If you have $5 and you buy a can of XS and charge yourself $5, you have a can of XS and $3 profit which is now subject to taxes. In this case you bought from yourself but you are worse off than in scenario 1. Bottom line is you still have a can of XS and $3.

    Scenario 3: If I have $5 and buy an energy drink from Safeway for $1.79 and get 1% cash back (non taxable) if I used my cash rewards credit card. I end up with an energy drink and $3.21 left in my pocket plus a few cents cash back reward.

  547. July 23, 2018 1:29 pm

    You didn’t post a link to support your assertion that Colgate costs more than Glister. I can guarantee you I can find toothpaste cheaper than $6.09.

  548. July 23, 2018 1:34 pm Twice as much product as Amway and a fraction of the cost:

    Colgate Baking Soda and Peroxide Whitening Toothpast …
    Average rating:4.9412out of5stars, based on17reviews17ratings
    Current Price
    $2.96 – for 2 tubes
    Free shipping on
    orders over $35
    Free pickup today

  549. July 23, 2018 1:36 pm

    # 1 who SAYS ITS TAXABLE?


    #3 CAN YOU dulpicate your purchase 1000 X and get paid thousands of $$?

    Can you copy your “rewards card” visa 1000X and get THOUSANDS of dollars on profit?
    .I buy one suit for $200 and all I get is 20 pv 1000 others dulpicate me & I get 20,000pv or over 50,000 BV wanna calculate that at 31%??

  550. July 23, 2018 1:45 pm

    It’s on Safeway website. Colgate 6 oz _5.09
    Amway Glister 6.75 oz 4.50

    My gosh do I have to do EVERYTHING for you? I ain’t got all day to try & type on this retarded website (did you program it? It’s super slow & cluncky. )

  551. July 23, 2018 2:39 pm

    “”# 1 who SAYS ITS TAXABLE?””

    The IRS. Don’t you know about taxes?

    “”#3 CAN YOU dulpicate your purchase 1000 X and get paid thousands of $$?”””

    Obviously you haven’t done this.

  552. July 23, 2018 2:42 pm

    I don’t even have a Walmart in my area. I NEVER shop Walmart for food etc. Only been in there if I’m out of town & need a last minute pair of jeans or shirt for work.

    BTW I just ordered Thursday night. Got shipment confirmation Friday.

    I just opened an email. My package has arrived. Opened my door & here it is! Walmart doesn’t do that or offer 180 day mb guarantee or are shipping for customer or exclusive items like double X.

    Walmart sucks. Making billions off crappy wages.

  553. July 23, 2018 2:46 pm

    So you went to the Safeway website and chose the most expensive version of Colgate. I found one on store special for $1.50.

    Colgate Toothpaste Anticavity Fluoride Baking Soda & Peroxide Whitening Brisk Mint Paste – 4 Oz
    $0.38 / OUNCE

    Original Price$2.99 Your Price$1.50

    How do you save money in Amway by spending more?

  554. July 23, 2018 2:47 pm

    WalMart has free shipping on certain orders, just like Amway.

    “””Walmart sucks. Making billions off crappy wages.”””

    Amway makes billions off paying you guys less than the crappy wages that WalMart pays. Many IBOs lose money.

  555. July 24, 2018 11:27 am

    Ok first of all we’re not dealing on made in China crap. k(it’s made in the USA) and second nobody works full-time (as an IBO) for minimum wage.

    Third they’ve paid out $50 billion in bonuses to IBOs (how many besides Walton or shareholders have bought yachts working at Walmart?)

    Gee maybe Duncan should have stayed a carpenter (I’m sure he’d have “, Union benefits” 😉)
    Or maybe Glen Baker should have stayed a broke insurance agent ?

  556. July 24, 2018 12:19 pm

    How many downline does Duncan and Baker have that lost money? Hundreds of thousand over the years? I don’t think any, or many have lost money by working for WalMart.

    And by the way, I’m pretty sure that many millionaires were made by investing in WalMart stock.

  557. July 24, 2018 12:35 pm

    YoU posted AN EXAMPLE (or maybe two) of tax cheats who think the IRS is stupid.

    Notice the judgement SAID “The way they ran THEIR business” not all Amway IBOs or amway IBOs in general. (Man you’re as bad as they are with your “evidence” to substantiate your exagerated claim).

    People who follow the rules usually pass with flying colors (as did my downline when she got audited & the supervisor saw her WWDb tax planner properly filled out and SAID “LET her go. You’ll never find anything on these people”)

    STILL waiting for your proofed of “Million dollar net worth””

    (& Nobody give a shine about your supposed net worth. In amway you were a failure!!)

  558. July 24, 2018 12:41 pm

    At least I posted actual proof of something. All you do is make baseless claims.

    I’d like to see where an auditor said to let someone go because they had some WWDB planner. I’ll bet it doesn’t exist.

  559. July 24, 2018 12:44 pm

    Zerroooo!! You cannot “lose money” in amway (unless you’re trying to scam the IRS).

    BETTER question is how many others have they helped make millions & get out of debt?
    Well. Let’s see. Leslie Walgsmott. Samir Atallah. Scotty H. David & Darlene Duncan. Bob & Shelley Kummer… Tracey Eaton. Brenda and Jesse atilano, Trevor and Lexi Baker. D Larry koning. Mathew Duncan. (& Countless other rubies & emeralds I’ve heard on CDs or audios. )

    So. How many people have YOU HELPED get out of debt orvretore in their 20s & 30s?

  560. July 24, 2018 12:45 pm

    Quote: “””My first suggestion is that if you want to have a side business to make personal expenses deductible (which is something that you should not do at all, by the way), Amway is about the worst thing to pick. People with persistent Amway losses do not do well in Tax Court. The other is that if you expect that a side activity will ultimately be profitable, you might want to consider suspending the losses under Code Section 469. Although, in principle, this does not immunize you from being attacked under Section 183, as a practical matter it does since you are not getting a current benefit. You will get the benefit when the activity becomes profitable or you abandon it.

    You can follow me on twitter @peterreillycpa.”””

  561. July 24, 2018 12:46 pm

    You named about a dozen or so successful Amway people. How many hundreds of thousands did they help to get into debt or bankruptcy following their advice over the years?

  562. July 24, 2018 2:12 pm

    So. . You name even ONE person who actually”got into debt” trying to dulpicate Brad Duncan or Glen Baker in the amway business? 🤔

  563. July 24, 2018 2:29 pm

    Derek and Joyce K. filed bankruptcy and lost their home following the sage advise of the Duncans. They were crossline from me. I left out their last name to protect their privacy.

  564. July 24, 2018 2:43 pm

    Yeahhh right. “filed for bk” & “lost their home” ? On the “advice of their upline”??
    Now of they had jobs or businesses while building the business (which every upline I ever talked to told me is a must have).

    All I ever heard on recordings regarding jobs/ retirement is upline coaches them as to WHEN they can quit their jobs (& even set the retirement date, based on their cash reserves, parameters, and income from the business).

    If they were really so sharp and had anything going outside the business they wouldn’t be bankrupt or lose their house then would they?

    (Besides what the hell are you doing counseling cross-lining about their finances anyway? You really think they’re gonna tell you the whole story honestly?)

    Anybody who’s honest will tell you it is imposible to “,go bankrupt” or “lose your house” “, because of doing Amway”. (Yeah. I know. Greg Duncan filed for BK & had to sell his houses – & toys. That’s not Amway fault. )

    Quit making up stories.

  565. July 24, 2018 2:50 pm

    it’s not made up. I ran into them some years after we had left the business. Is it entirely the fault of upline? Probably not. But when the advice given at functions is to buy more tools, never quit, attend ALL functions, do whatever it takes. That kind of teaching influences people’s decisions.

    But upline can exercise plausible deniability and say that’s not what I meant or I didn’t quite say it that way.

    I sat in a function where Brad Wolgamott told the audience to quit their jobs to attend a function if they could not get time off because you can just get another job. Such BS,

  566. July 24, 2018 2:53 pm

    Heck if Greg Duncan went bankrupt, why would you find it hard to believe that some rank and file Amway IBO went bankrupt?

  567. July 24, 2018 3:13 pm

    I did not say people do not go bakruot or get divorced or even get sued. Heck a guy named Louie in Miami was indicted for the air traffic controller’s strike in 1981. Was tht amways fault?

    (Noticed Duncan didn’t QUIT the business or blame Amway. He’s still enjoying all those $50,000 trips which you’ll NEVER go on)

  568. July 24, 2018 3:26 pm

    And I’ll never know what chapter 7 bankruptcy is like either, Can you ask Greg about it one day? Or are people in WWDB still pretending it never happened?

  569. July 25, 2018 8:46 am

    Quote: “””Anyways, here are some links to recent updates about WWDB if you are interested:

    Brad Duncan talks about his brother (Greg Duncan’s) recent bankruptcy, mentioning that this is the 3rd time he has lost everything.

    EDC Dean Kosage Leaves WWDB to start his own line of affiliation, called “Freestyle”.

    Double Diamond Brad Wolgamott Leaves WWDB and starts his own line of affiliation called VSix.

    Older news:

    Greg Duncan Bankruptcy, Diamond Jim Harstad leaves, David Shores Foreclosure”””

  570. July 25, 2018 10:34 am

    Ok. So. Leaving WWDb didn’t mean they quit the business (genius). It means they got an ego (& wanted to do “motivation” their own way).

  571. July 25, 2018 10:42 am

    Leaving WWDB with those “awesome” mentors and friends for life?

    Translated, they left WWDB because they wanted (and probably needed) more tool money.

  572. July 25, 2018 10:56 am

    Don’t know. Don’t care. Didn’t lDean thay much anyway. Brad was too cocky.

  573. July 25, 2018 11:02 am

    Brad Wolgamott was the one who stood on stage and said WWDB saves marriages. LOL. What a hypocrite.

    Greg Duncan said people who take out loans are stupid. What a hypocrite.

  574. July 25, 2018 11:18 am

    I always thought Brad was way too good looking for Leslie and I never heard Greg say that. I do specifically remember Greg telling how he sat on front of a banker to apply for a loan for some business deal or something & how the banker was shocked at how much Greg made from Amway. He said “oh yeah I went to one of those meeting s & the guy with the white board”.
    Greg asked him if he got in. Greg said he did. (that bank employee still has a job. You don’t see Greg or Laurie going out for a job now do you?)

  575. July 25, 2018 11:21 am

    Brad Duncan was the one who taught that you should never cancel a standing order. It was recorded on a (then) tape in the true north series. What is a guy to do? Call upline who calls upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order? Funny thing is nobody ever griped about calling upline who calls upline who calls upline to add a standing order.

  576. July 25, 2018 11:23 am

    Brad Wolgamott taught people to skip paying some of their bills or to quit their job so they can attend functions. I saw that in person.

    Greg Duncan told some story about how his daughter would eventually get married so he would ask his (future) son in law what his best (job) offer was. He would then offer double and the son in law and daughter would travel the world with them.

    It sounded nice and flowery but it looks like it was just BS.

  577. July 25, 2018 11:40 am

    Yeah whatever. Dude you’re like an obsessed stalker who can’t get over his ex.
    Did you ever make $40,000 a month or have a $6,000,000 house?

  578. July 25, 2018 12:08 pm

    “””Did you ever make $40,000 a month or have a $6,000,000 house?”””

    No. Did you?

  579. July 31, 2018 3:58 pm

    Malachy avoiding this thread now?

  580. July 31, 2018 6:13 pm

    Which thread?

  581. July 31, 2018 8:06 pm

    What thread?

  582. August 1, 2018 8:49 am

    “””Did you ever make $40,000 a month or have a $6,000,000 house?”””

    No. Did you?

  583. August 1, 2018 9:07 am

    So WHY are you repeating yourself?
    It’s not where I am that matters, it’s where I’m going.
    Right now I’m following someone who’s made over $100,000 a year from his business and who’s succesully coached his mom and dad how to make over $150,0000 a year (so I’m pretty confident he can coach me how to do that. Can you?).

  584. August 1, 2018 9:36 am

    Quote Malachy Smith: “”You need to quit spouting off about things which you’ve never done.””

  585. August 1, 2018 9:42 am

    You need to stop regurgitating the same things over and over. Out of ideas. You repeat yourself (& now you parrot me 😂😂😎).

    Ron Puryear SAID it’s only $3000-4000 a year to be core. A 4000 with 6 bonus checks makes close to 2000 dollars a month. (See? You’re lying). You probably went 4000 ONE time (& probably mostly down one or 2 Legs)

    You’re not supposed to stay on a pin for ayear. It takes none GROWING LEGS (SEE Dan Yuen) to go platinum.

  586. August 1, 2018 10:03 am

    I had 12 front line legs. I had eagle parameters. Do the math since you’re supposedly so well versed in how Amway bonuses work.

  587. August 1, 2018 10:15 am

    so NOW you’re making stuff up. Eagle is 6 bonus checks. You maybe had 6 front lines but most probably barely did 100 PV. One leg at 2500 and a couple of others at 300 or so. A balanced 4000 PV business with 12 bonus checks CANNOT make less than $1800-2300 dollars. Nobody spends more than $400-500 a month on Core. See? You’re ly

  588. August 1, 2018 10:36 am

    It’s impossible to spend $1000 a month in tools. And functions. For $49.95 I get unlimited download & streaming & we now use digital info systems

  589. August 1, 2018 11:29 am

    I had more than 6 bonus checks. And I didn’t spend $1000 every month. But for example, family reunion was in Portland in July. Round Trip airfare is like $600 plus the tickets itself was $250. Add in rental cars and other expenses and it’s well over $1000. Plus our standing orders and additional materials. My expenses were approximately $1000 a month on average when factoring in the major functions that required air travel.

  590. August 1, 2018 11:40 am

    Dude I can ind round trip for around $400-450 (I already showed that in an earlier post). I paid $125 for my family reunion ticket. Why would you rent a car when you can get a hotel downtown or take the metro like I did. ?
    I’ll give ya $1000 for ONE FUNCTION MAYBE FED as well. (that’s less than $200 average per month for out of town functions). Local functions are $30 for reginals (4 x a year) & dream night is $75. Leadership is at Honolulu. $125.

  591. August 1, 2018 11:50 am

    You know how much it costs to go to a Tony Robbins function or Grant Cardone?
    $20000 (or maybe “on special” for $995.

    Dude you’re whining about a $225 function tickets really?? (Next thing you’ll tell us is wwdb makes money off the hotel & air fare costs too. 🙄.

  592. August 1, 2018 12:54 pm

    You don’t go to a Tony Robbins seminar 12 times a year do you? And you don’t listen to audios of him daily. Apples and oranges with Amway.

  593. August 1, 2018 12:57 pm

    So do you Go to family reunion 12 x a year ?

  594. August 1, 2018 1:16 pm

    And youu don’t jump off tall buildings do you.
    Bad analogy (stupid)

  595. August 1, 2018 1:24 pm

    “”So do you Go to family reunion 12 x a year ?””

    WWDB has 4 major functions each year plus 8 regional functions.

    But standing orders, premiere club, KATE and meetings are monthly.

  596. August 1, 2018 1:29 pm

    Two major functions which you’d travel for. If you call $75 a major expense for a dinner included event then I feel sorry for you.
    Leadership. Includes John Maxwell for $125 no travel necessary.
    Fund out how much it would cost to have Grant Cardone or Tony Robins in Honolulu?

  597. August 1, 2018 1:29 pm

    Two major functions which you’d travel for. If you call $75 a major expense for a dinner included event then I feel sorry for you.
    Leadership. Includes John Maxwell for $125 no travel necessary.
    Fund out how much it would cost to have Grant Cardone or Tony Robins in Honolulu?

  598. August 1, 2018 1:38 pm

    Dude even with 1 extra tape a week (that’s what I heard) and 2 functions at $1,000each + Kate + sot + 8 regionals + 1 book a month at $20 (university costs ALOT more than that for books) I came up with less than $4000 for the year. That’s less than $400 a month. (See? You’re either lying or you were stupid. )

    Besides if you had 10 customers EVERY month that should have netted you $200-300 a month which pays for all of the above

  599. August 1, 2018 2:15 pm

    We had to travel for 3 major functions. FED, Leadership and Family reunion.

    We also had Dream Night, and regional functions.

    Our monthly expenses were one open meeting
    Standing order (6 tapes monthly)
    7-9 additional tapes per week (28-36 tapes per month – can’t listen to the same one each day right?)
    Expenses for running a business – gas, parking, clothes, meals prospecting, etc.

    This adds up to a lot of $$$ and this was what WWDB was teaching back in my days.

  600. August 1, 2018 3:25 pm

    “7-9. Additional tapes each week”? That’s idiotic. Whoever told you that is an idiot (or maybe you are).
    There is not one tape or CD that ever SAID to do that. (see? You did it WRONG).. HAVING 1 info systems for each day to STP is one thing. Listening to one extra tape a week is one thing. Binging on tapes is another. That’s NOT Amways fault (the corporation does not even produce or endorse the tapes).
    That’s NOT WWDB fault. No diamond ever said at a function or on CD to “buy an extra 7-9 tapes a week” That’s so STUPID.

    I’d like to know which diamond you spoke to personally who told you to do that.

  601. August 1, 2018 4:11 pm

    7-9 tapes is idiotic? Well, that’s what WWDB was teaching in the 1990’s to “serious” IBOs.
    The reasoning was because you need fresh material to listen to and not the same one each day.

    It came from somewhere upline between Greg Duncan and Harimoto for our group.

    Maybe you didn’t achieve 2500 either. These kinds of teachings don’t happen in functions that are recorded. They’re taught in small groups where upline can claim plausible deniability. You know, like night owls.

  602. August 1, 2018 4:13 pm

    I never said it was Amway’s fault. It’s WWDB. But then again, Amway has a bad reputation because of these kinds of thing that happen to people when Amway has the power to stop it.

  603. August 1, 2018 4:35 pm

    Wrng wrong WRONG. Show me the tape or CD # that Said to buy “7-9 extra tapes a week.”.
    I might believe that somebody SAID to get 7 extra tapes a month. But that is OPTIONAL at your OWN discretion as budget allows (I don’t suppose you remember hearing that part about “as budget allows”?)

    FACT is AMWAY corporatiion gave you the opportunity and paid you over $1000 a month. How you chose to use those funds is no concerns of amway.
    (& $1000 is pretty weak at 4000 with “eagle parameters BTW. I ran the model and it shows over $1300 in income. Did you have 10 retail clients? And did you as ( ALL the diamonds say ) open a separate checking account and isolate the retail/ wholesale difference? OF course not. See? You know better than the diamonds of course. There’s the HUGE hole in your teaching. You lie when you say you did everything wwdb teaches. )

    Case. Closed!

  604. August 1, 2018 5:03 pm

    I told you. Nobody is going to be recorded teaching people to buy 7-9 extra tapes per week. This is taught at night owls or special meetings for 1000 pv and above. It’s for “serious” IBOs.

    I did what my upline platinum told me to do and he was in counsel with the diamond. You keep claiming I lie but you don’t know what I was taught. You weren’t there in the meetings.

    FYI, Brad Duncan did have a tape where he implied that you should never cancel a standing order because then upline would have to call upline who calls upline to cancel a standing order. It was on a true north tape.

    And yeah, I had customers and a separate checking account.

    The way things were run over 20 years is not like today. I had to cut my own bonus checks to downline.

    There was no talk about buying things as your budget allowed. Wolgamott taught that it’s only okay to go in debt to buy Amway stuff or to attend a function and buy tools. Obviously they wanted your disposable income to be spent on tools, which the diamonds profit from.

    I will grant you one thing. I had a friend who was somewhere under the Tsurudas and they didn’t seem to push the tools as hard Harimoto. But still, we were all in WWDB.

  605. August 2, 2018 9:18 am

    We if you were a “4000” in that platinum business then he deserved to lose that leg. Shame on him. No wonder Harimoto fell out of diamond qualifications . You can’t muzzle the ox. If you had $500 to add to your budget you might a got more excited and moved on to bigger things.

    I understand their hard core mentality but that’s just stupid. I got in to make $2000 a month not buy a bunch of tapes

  606. August 2, 2018 10:40 am

    The direct distributors that Harimoto went diamond with originally aren’t even in Amway anymore, as far as I know.

    But the pushing of tools came from higher upline, not necessarily Harimoto.

  607. August 2, 2018 11:13 am

    He’s doing meet & greets with new prospects now putting in new width. . going for “20 bonus checks”.

  608. August 2, 2018 11:21 am

    ??? Who is putting in new width?

  609. August 2, 2018 11:52 am

    Scotty. He was recently pictured at a Starbucks waiting for a meeting. “Let’s do this “20 bonus checks” was the caption. (He probably went Diamond on less than 20)

  610. August 2, 2018 12:41 pm

    About 12 years ago or so, Ron Puryear put out a challenge to the WWDB diamonds. To create a diamond business in addition to what you already have. Not a single WWDB diamond was able to do it. After a while, it was dropped from the teaching and most people forgot all about it.

  611. August 2, 2018 12:42 pm

    Scorr Harimoto was an ocean lover yet he moved from Hawaii to Washington State. More than likely there wasn’t enough business in Hawaii and from what you’re saying, he;s still working his Amway job like most diamonds.

  612. August 2, 2018 12:50 pm

    So he’s not an employee / engineer anymore is he? As for moving so did Toshi Taba. Nothing to do with “not enough business” ,🙄
    It’s called too many taxes in Hawaii. Washington has ZERO income tax. I’ll move to lake Tahoe (the Nevada side) when I made big money. Sick to death of Suckramento.

  613. August 2, 2018 12:59 pm

    If Harimoto was rolling in dough, having to pay state taxes should not be a big problem.

    Your friend Matt still lives here.

  614. August 2, 2018 1:04 pm

    Well with the $30,000 I’d save in taxes every year I’d rather use that to buy a house at lake Tahoe.

  615. August 2, 2018 2:00 pm

    Matt’s mentors Mike and Michi sold their luxury mansion in Hawaii and bought a big ole Beverly hillbillies mansion in Texas. Their upline Toshi & BeaTaba also moved to Washington.
    (When you’re wealthy and dont have a job you can live wherever you want to. )

    Terry and Linda felber started out on San Diego, moved to Colorado and now retired to an island. Their son Jamie just loves his financial freedom. He’s young, rich & free, just like Glen Baker son Trevor. In his 30′ making more money every month than you make in a year.

    Freedom baby.

  616. August 2, 2018 4:00 pm

    Toshi Taba died 2 years ago and was living in Hawaii when he passed.

    “”Feb. 9, 2016
    Toshio Taba, 86, of Mililani, an entrepreneur and an Army Military Intelligence Service veteran, died in Honolulu. He was born in Wailuku. He is survived by wife Beatrice; son Ernest Terukina; daughters Frances Durham, Janet Napaepae and Janice Morimoto; 10 grandchildren; 26 great-grandchildren; and five great-great-grandchildren. Visitation: 5 p.m. March 17 at First Assembly of God Church, Red Hill. Services: 6 p.m. Inurnment: 3 p.m. March 18 at National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific, Punchbowl. No flowers. Condolences:””

  617. August 2, 2018 4:02 pm

    What’s $30k to someone making a fortune? Why would taxes dictate where you live unless $30k was meaningful cash to you? I don’t leave Hawaii even though I could save a sizable amount of cash by doing it.

  618. August 2, 2018 4:57 pm

    Well he moved to Vancouver Washington and also kept their house in Honolulu. (Oh. Multiple homes. Oops. (musta sold lots a tapes 😉😆)

  619. August 3, 2018 7:51 am

    Well it’s 10% of my income I’d rather not pay in stupid taxes. Did you Know there is a mas exodus of wealthy people from kahhlifornia? Anybody who can gets out (& moves their jobs ) to a tax free state.
    Hawaii and California are two of the worst states (financially) to live in.

  620. August 6, 2018 10:01 am

    Well if there’s “not that much business” in Hawaii then WHY do they have spring leadership in Honolulu?
    How did Mandy Yamamoto go Diamond?
    How did the tsurudas break 2 new platimum businesses?? How come Matt and Sandee never fell out of diamond qualifications?

  621. August 6, 2018 11:01 am

    There are about 900,000 people living on Oahu. You can build a diamondship but that population cannot support too many of them unless you have legs on the mainland or international.

    You can have new platinums as older ones drop out of qualification. How do you think Harimoto became a emerakd some years back?

  622. August 6, 2018 11:01 am

    Why would taxes dictate where you live if the money was rolling in and you have all those “business” deductions from your tax bill??

  623. August 6, 2018 12:16 pm

    I’m I’m not talking about Matt and Sandee replacing old platimuns (just as Matt never once fell out of platinum qualifications neither did any of his legs.) I’m talking about their downline founder’s rubies breaking 2 new platimum legs (making mom & dad saphires now. )
    The old “saturation” trick? Like Ron Puryear never heard that in Spokane in the 1970s.

    There’s more people tturning 18 EVERY year than there are platinums.

    Even at 1000 IBOs per diamond there’s no where CLOSE to even 100 diamond in Hawaii, let alone 900!
    (And, yeah, just like me, there are hundreds of IBOs on the mainland. Matt and Sandee have groups in Texas, Illinois, southern California and northern California)

    Next thing you’ll tell me is Las Vegas is saturated (Trevor Baker moved there and went double diamond, earning a milllion a year at 33 yrs old. Did you do that? He want even 18 years old or legally registered in the businesswhen you QUIT. He had the same CDs, same functions same books you did. Howcome it didn’t bother him to pay for a function or a $7 CD? 🤔)

  624. August 6, 2018 12:25 pm

    His emerald business probably makes more money than you do. No job necessary. (I don’t see him applying for a job)

    3 you’re FREE.
    (He got free at Ruby)

  625. August 6, 2018 1:07 pm

    According to Amway, the average emerald makes about $72k. You may want to rethink your statements.

  626. August 6, 2018 1:09 pm

    How do you know whether Matt ever fell out of qualification? Or any of his downline for that matter? Amway doesn’t release that kind of information.

    And here again, you are making income claims about someone whose financial information you don’t have access to. By the way, you should know that making those kinds of claims are against Amway rules.

  627. August 6, 2018 1:11 pm

    The only thing preventing complete saturation and implosion is people turning 18 each day. Most people have hear something about Amway and many people have negative opinions about Amway, which is why it’s nearly impossible to show the plan consistently, let alone reaching the higher levels.

  628. August 6, 2018 1:31 pm

    Oh I forgot. You’re the amway expert 😎

  629. August 6, 2018 1:34 pm

    So how do you explain the double digits growth in North America EVERY year for the last 3 years?

  630. August 6, 2018 1:42 pm

    So how did Trevor Baker go from Ruby to double diamond in the last 4 years and making 7 figures? (*BTW it’s not Against any rules for someone to tell you how much they made. Amway themselves say in their current literature a emerald makes between $75,000-300,000 (*75k is NOT THE “AVERAGE” LIAR. It’s the minum. Averages is $150,000). Diamond average size bewteen $250,000-600,000 with top Diamond making well over $2,000,0000 annually. It’s in their BROCHURE

    How did many Yamamoto just go Diamond? How did Kenji and Mildred make over $150,000 and now break two platimuns making them saphires?

  631. August 6, 2018 1:57 pm

    And how wold you know what’s currently happening in this business or current market conditions or demands for this business? It’s been 20 YEARS since you were active.
    (Armchair expert)

  632. August 6, 2018 2:00 pm

    Dude I’ve known Matt since before he met Sandee. He was a Ruby then and NEVER went less. He went emerald & diamond & EDC. Never less than diamond since they went Diamond.

  633. August 6, 2018 2:51 pm

    What double digit growth in North America? Amway revenues have dropped from a high of 11.8 billion in 2013 to 8.3 billion last year. Amway reports global figures, not by individual markets. So where did you get that report from? Your upline?

  634. August 6, 2018 2:52 pm

    How do you know Trevor Baker was making a million bucks? Greg Duncan was a triple diamond and he made about 500k from Amway.

  635. August 6, 2018 2:55 pm

    How do I know what’s happening in Amway? I use google. Amway reports their revenues annually:

    2013 11.8 billion
    2014 10.8 billion
    2015 9.5 billion
    2016 8.6 billion
    2017 8.3 billion

  636. August 6, 2018 3:00 pm

    See Amway rules 5.4.1 to 5.4.4. Their website does not allow copy and paste.

  637. August 6, 2018 3:14 pm

    You’re allowed to tell people what THEY can make in accordance with FTC rules and realistic protection. Amway SAYS in their BROCHURE a diamond can make over a million.

  638. August 6, 2018 3:24 pm

    DUDE you liked again! (See?)
    Amway reported $8.6 billion, not 8.3 for 2017, (with a 3% growth in the second half).
    Most of their revenue problems we’re based on China’s regulations and their currency manipulation, making it very unfavorable for selling US goods into China.

    (Leading the way, BTW, in growth was Korea and North America.)

    Yes, it’s been said on stage by amway execs and recorded on audio being mentioned by a diamond on stage that amway has seen double digits growth year over year in North America since 2015 compared to 2016.

  639. August 6, 2018 3:55 pm

    I’ll Take the $500,000 it’s far more than you’ve ever made.
    Besides they’ve nearly double the leadership bonus since Greg was triple diamond.
    It’s gone from 4% to 6 %. Triple diamond is 15 legs. Double is 12.
    Also the new faa awards now plus who knows how large each of those platimum legs is and his 20 bonus checks Ruby side volume + the newr PV/BV ratios.

  640. August 6, 2018 4:06 pm

    First of all you were only off by $300,000,000.00
    (So WHY should anybody listen to you, a washed up unsuccessful ex amway IBOs who can’t even tell the truth or get the FACTS & figures straight??).

    For the record, the correct figure for last year’s revenue is $8.6 BILLION (that’s $8,600,000).
    Not bad for a debt free privately held “failing” company.
    And whether they go up or down doesn’t affect me at all. All that matters is (to me)my revenue and my income.

  641. August 6, 2018 4:38 pm

    Yeah I read those rules.
    (Including the part which says “unless such benefits…from building an iB”. So it’s perfectly legal for me to tell you that Matt rents a house for $20,000 a month or that he bought a 2.5 acres property On THE WATER at the North shore , or to tell you that Trevor bought $100,000 Mercedes and paid cash (since it’s benefits from building their business. )

    I ALSO read the part in the same manual which talks about the annual incentives as well as monthly income (*& emerald “average” income is alot higher than “$75,000” BTW).

    You don’t even have access to this info as you are not a current ibo in good standing.

  642. August 6, 2018 5:05 pm

    we don’t need (or want) old has beens & dinosaurs. The bell curve is with the young people like Gen y and millennials. Why work until they’re old like you or me when they can retire at 23 or 33?

  643. August 7, 2018 8:49 am

    “””You’re allowed to tell people what THEY can make in accordance with FTC rules and realistic protection.”””

    And you’re claiming these folks make millions, live in mansions and rent $20k per month places while they renovate their mansions. That is against Amway rules.

  644. August 7, 2018 8:51 am

    8.3 billion? Whatever. You ever heard of a typo? Anyways, Amway revenues and sales are way down from their peak at 11.8 billion. And they do not report individual markets so how did you get that North America is up double digits? Some fairy tale your upline told you?

  645. August 7, 2018 8:54 am

    “””Why work until they’re old like you or me when they can retire at 23 or 33?”””

    Then why can’t you or anyone else name someone who’s walked away from Amway to not work again?

    Your friend Matt is still working. If he needs to be somewhere at a particular time to get money (i.e. functions), he is still working. You can argue his job isn’t that hard, be having to be somewhere at a particular time and place for money, is still working in my book.

    Whereas I can stay home and do nothing or take a first class trip to New Zealand and still get paid each month. I don’t have to be somewhere at a particular time to get paid.

  646. August 7, 2018 8:57 am

    “””(Including the part which says “unless such benefits…from building an iB”. So it’s perfectly legal for me to tell you that Matt rents a house for $20,000 a month or that he bought a 2.5 acres property On THE WATER at the North shore , or to tell you that Trevor bought $100,000 Mercedes and paid cash (since it’s benefits from building their business. )”””

    Yes, you can tell me anything you want. But you have yet to provide any evidence that it’s true. I can also tell you I bought a $100,000 porsche in cash and a mansion in Malibu all in cash. That doesn’t make it true.

    Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy and his financials being exposed showed a lot of myths about a diamond’s income and expenses. Funny how Greg’s tax returns showed he did zilch for charity.

  647. August 7, 2018 9:16 am

    Why don’t you folks use the Amway voicemail system instead of KATE? Because your upline makes more $$$ from KATE.

  648. August 7, 2018 9:17 am

    AAh. No! NOT a “typo”. (so you’re lying again?.🤔). You DID it twice. In 2 different postings (& on my keyboard anyway) there’s 2 other digits between a 6 and a 3.

    Now either you can’t get your FACTS and figures straight or you’re lying/ deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

    You have no credibility and ZERO integrity (that’s the real reason why you were not successful at Amway. )

  649. August 7, 2018 9:24 am

    You don’t LISTEN do you? You probably have a reading comprehension/ retention problem.
    I ALREADY SAID (on multiple postings) that Amway executives come to functions. Amway executives speak at functions. Amway executive TOLD us the FACTS and laid out the Numbers on growth in North America and in WWDB.
    Greg Duncan repeated those stats at spring leadership (in Honolulu) last year. Just came out on standing order last week.

  650. August 7, 2018 9:32 am

    No it isn’t. (First of all, with the exception of Mike and Michi I never said “Mansions”)
    Trevor and Lexi live in a $12,000 a month luxury condo on Las Vegas. Matt and Sandee own a 2.5 acre ocean front property in Hawaii. It’s from the money they earned in the business. That’s perfectly legal for me to state that they got a $100,0ⁿ0 car or a beach front house since it’s money from their business and not let’s say from being an executive or lawyer or other sources.

    What’s wrong is for me to buy a Mercedes from my ad revenue or a lake front house and show it as from my amway business. (you really need to work on your reading comprehension. Can’t even read and understand a simple one sentence rule? Really??)

  651. August 7, 2018 9:39 am

    Uoh I’m sorry. Was that Saint Gregory you were referring to? 🤔.

  652. August 7, 2018 9:53 am

    “amway voicemail system”? There is none!
    See your problem is your employee mentalityWe are “independent business owners” and we can develop, search out, or use whatever tools work best to support and build our network of independent businesses.

    It’s not Amways fault. you spent $1000 a month on tapes & functions. Your upline violated the rules anyway. Shame on you for not knowing the rules better. Mr expert.

  653. August 7, 2018 10:15 am

    Matt and Sandee, Brad and Julie, Howie and Teresa can do the same (only amway pays for THEIR exclusive first class, private hey, private yacht $50,000 trips that YOU can’t go on 😉)

    Howie spends 4 months a year a coalina (or however you spell it) in Hawaii at THEIR second him, thousands of miles from his business on the mainland. No suits. No meetings. (* And, no, Matt does NOT “go to meetings” to get money 🙄

    Dimb@## STILL don’t get how it works?

    Here let me help you:. What’s 6% of $60,000 ? That’s the amount the average Ruby generates and his sponsor gets the 6% (that’s $3600 a MONTH for you math challenged). A good secure leg (not with whiners and quitters like you but with LEADER like Kenji and Mildred or Mandy Yamamoto) usually runs more like $25,000-30,000 PV. (What’s 6% of $90,000 ?)
    That’s how much you make monthly off one leg (now multiply that x 6 or 9 (or in trevors case 12). And these do not include the founder’s check, acheivers, founders emerald or diamonds bonuses or Growth incentives.

    (Gosh you know maybe Matt should go back to managing a parking lot 🤔)

  654. August 7, 2018 10:18 am

    So your claim of Amway growing double digits in NA is a lie. Can find it on google. But I can find that Amway revenues went from 11.8 billion down to 8.6 billion.

  655. August 7, 2018 10:18 am

    Can’t find it on google. (see, a typo)

  656. August 7, 2018 10:20 am

    “”And, no, Matt does NOT “go to meetings” to get money””

    That’s a lie. Anytime he speaks, he will receive an honorarium for speaking. And he keeps going because he doesn’t get paid if he’s not there.

    See how that works? Just like a J-O-B

  657. August 7, 2018 10:22 am

    “””I ALREADY SAID (on multiple postings) that Amway executives come to functions. Amway executives speak at functions. Amway executive TOLD us the FACTS and laid out the Numbers on growth in North America and in WWDB.
    Greg Duncan repeated those stats at spring leadership (in Honolulu) last year. Just came out on standing order last week.”””

    So what? They can tell you anything. You’d probably believe them if they told you that pink unicorns were real.

    If Amway has such tremendous growth in the US, despite a global decline of about 25%, where are all these new diamonds that should be exploding?

  658. August 7, 2018 10:24 am

    “””Matt and Sandee, Brad and Julie, Howie and Teresa can do the same (only amway pays for THEIR exclusive first class, private hey, private yacht $50,000 trips that YOU can’t go on”””

    That’s good for them. I suppose I wouldn’t turn down a free vacation either.

    Yeah, I can’t go. But I guess YOU’LL be keeping me company staying at home, except that I can do what I want when I want without having to worry about money.

  659. August 7, 2018 10:27 am

    Thanks uhm. No. He Only gets paid more money every month than MOST people make in a year from his Amway bonuses. Sheesh. (like he’s speaking at functions to pay his $20,000 rent? Really??!!)

  660. August 7, 2018 10:30 am

    Of course he’s speaking at functions to make money,. Do you really think a diamond makes all their money from Amway? Greg Duncan made about 500k from Amway. Great income but he’s a higher pin than Matt. So Matt most likely makes less unless there are unusual circumstances. And if Matt made more than Greg, he wouldn’t take counsel from Greg now would he?

  661. August 7, 2018 10:31 am

    You keep talking about large bonuses that YOU don’t receive. Why is that?

  662. August 7, 2018 10:32 am

    is NOT downline from Greg you ignoramus.

  663. August 7, 2018 10:34 am

    Yes, but in WWDB, Matt would take counsel from a WWDB Triple diamond would be not?

  664. August 7, 2018 10:40 am

    Where is YOUR success? You told me not to speak of what I haven’t done, but I did more in Amway than YOU did. All you’re doing ls what Tony said. You’re like a 98 pound geek acting big because you have some big brother to cover you. Or in your case, you are claiming someone else’s alleged success to prop up your thus far, limited alleged success in Amway.

    Let me know when achieve magazine recognizes Malachy Smith as a platinum. 🙂

  665. August 7, 2018 10:41 am

    Neither do you. “WHY is that?”

    I talk about the income that comes from the AMWAY business (which you say is “false hope” or “doesn’t work”)
    So. Matt was given false hope? (Maybe he should go back to being a bartender or parking manager)
    Scotty was given “false hope”? MAYBE he should go back to a job at a computer. )

    Tracey Eaton was given false hope? Really?? Maybe he should tryiut for the Seahawks or go back to being a broker stock broker.

    Brad Duncan was bgiven “false hope’? Maybe he should go back to construction and waking up at dark thirty five days a week.

    Gimme a break dude!

  666. August 7, 2018 10:53 am

    $8.6 billion success. Amway doesn’t need any “propping up”
    But your ridiculous excuses and claims full of holes sure do..

  667. August 7, 2018 11:50 am

    I’m not talking about the diamonds. Pyramid scams have successful people at the top. But the tens or hundreds of thousands over the years who got in and works at it only to lose money were given false hope. The diamonds are false prosperity preachers.

    Without those hoards of people turning 18 each year, Amway would be done.

    On and island of 100 people, how would Amway work other than to suck the life out of their economy?

  668. August 7, 2018 11:50 am

    8.6 billion. Great for Amway.

  669. August 7, 2018 12:07 pm

    So the branD new silver who’s about to bring his wife home to raise her own children was given “false hope”? Really??
    The baker’s who got fired from his job and then paid off all his IRS debt was given false hope? Really??

  670. August 7, 2018 12:50 pm

    “”So the branD new silver who’s about to bring his wife home to raise her own children was given “false hope”? Really??””

    For every lottery winner there are people who used their rent money or grocery who wind up worse off because of the lottery. Amway might be one of the worst because people who go all out trying suffer the most losses.

  671. August 7, 2018 1:42 pm

    It’s Not a lottery. It’s not based on luck. Matt didn’t get lucky. The bakers didn’t get lucky. They did what YOU (clearly) we’re unwilling to do. That’s it. PERIOD! (oh yeah I guess Bill Brit got really lucky hah.
    And Ron Puryear? Boy was he lucky! 😆😉😎)

  672. August 7, 2018 2:44 pm

    That’s so sad. You’re right. Amway isn’t luck. the sad think is the results are similar to a long shot game of chance (the lottery).

    A few winners and multitudes of losers.

  673. August 7, 2018 3:03 pm

    You’re the only loser that’s been a amway IBOs that I know of. All I see around me is winning. 3 out of 5 siblings all went emerald and above. Mom& dad are saphires. That’s 4 out of 6 family members are Ruby or higher. Baking over $100,000 a year. What would be the odds of all 6 family members bought a lotto ticket? None. 4 out of 6 going into founders Ruby or above isn’t lucky.

  674. August 7, 2018 4:45 pm

    So what? When their success comes from the pockets of their downline, it’s basically the same principle as the lottery. The ticket buyers make some winners rich but the vast majority lose money.

  675. August 8, 2018 7:18 am

    So by your (FAILED) logic Safeway makes money from all the “losers” who s

  676. August 8, 2018 12:16 pm

    Safeway makes money from customers. But you subscribe to “buy from yourself”. Is a customer a foreign language to Amway IBOs?

  677. August 8, 2018 12:40 pm

    So Safeway makes money off their customers while the customers lose money? Is that right?

  678. August 8, 2018 3:44 pm

    So hoW much money do you suppose Ron Puryear “lost” buying from his own business and servicing 15 retail customers?

  679. August 8, 2018 10:19 pm

    Customers spend money. Not lose money. When you “buy from yourself”, you are buying from Amway. You are Amway’s customer. If you attended a function and didn’t make enough money to cover the expense, you are Amway’s customer who lost money.

    I already told you, even in a pyramid scheme, some people make money. Ron was on top. The downline’s money flowed up to him via “buying from yourself” PV bonuses and then by purchasing tools.

    Is this hard for you to understand?

  680. August 13, 2018 1:13 pm

    Buying from yourself was convenient because most people don’t like selling stuff. So the buy from yourself seemed like a good solution but in reality the buy from yourself might be making your business a pyramid.

  681. September 17, 2018 11:59 am

    Then WHY are you so obsessed about it? (Amway). People only obsess about their goals and their regrets.

  682. September 17, 2018 12:14 pm

    You’re obsessed with misrepresenting the Amway business. You focus on a few who allegedly are successful at it while completely ignoring the wake of destruction that Amway and WWDB does with their downline.

    More than 99% of people make nothing or lose money in Amway. Most of the losses are because of the support materials that uplines sells for hefty profits. They promote this as the key to success but in reality it represents the reason why most IBOs end up with a net loss.

    It’s a myth that hard work will result in success. If hard work was a key, much more than than 1% of IBOs would succeed. The systems such as WWDB are a hindrance to people succeeding. Someone who did nothing but sold a few products would be better off than joining WWDB.

  683. Tony permalink
    September 17, 2018 12:20 pm

    What an ignorant statement. You’re going to try to stuff Joecool and every other human being into your own uneducated definition of what obsession means. Just look up the definition and it proves how unintelligent you sound now and have sounded for months.
    Get over yourself.

  684. September 17, 2018 12:35 pm

    Tony talking about a relationship 20 YEARS after it’s ended is quite obsessive! I certainly do not talk about my ex to anybody (& avoid the topic as much as possible). I don’t talk about my experience at the Honda dealership 10 years ago, and the general manager and how he was so unfair or whatever.
    That’s obsession.

  685. September 17, 2018 12:39 pm

    See there you go again telling more dang lies. Unsubstantiated made up statistics.

    And BTW nobody FORCED you to do WWDB. Go ahead and build it without WWDB system. Nobody stopping you. (Then pocket the $1000 and QUiT complaining. )

  686. September 18, 2018 8:52 am

    First of all, Amway is a scam. Try googling it and you’ll see that many many people agree with me. The lies used by WWDB leaders back in the 1990’s are still being told these days. You are living proof of that. I have no obsession. I consider blogging and commenting and sharing my Amway experiences as a public service. To forewarn people who are being prospected with lies and misrepresentations.

    You on the other hand, are perpetuating the scam by parroting the WWDB lies.

    FYI. there are no “uber successful” IBOs who don’t use the system. And that’s because powerful and tenured diamonds discourage that type of business and would likely sabotage anyone who started building such a group because they would miss out on the sale of business support materials.

  687. September 18, 2018 9:32 am

    First of all, that’s not correct (see? There you go lying again..). MOST intelligent people do not confuse the negative opinions of a few uninformed with fact.

    You post your lousy opinion as if it were fact. (FTC ruling from 40 YEARS ago proves you’re a liar. See? Nuff said)

    As for “sabotage” that’s just more stupidity coming from the mind of a quitter full of excuses.

  688. September 18, 2018 9:32 am

    First of all, that’s not correct (see? There you go lying again..). MOST intelligent people do not confuse the negative opinions of a few uninformed with fact.

    You post your lousy opinion as if it were fact. (FTC ruling from 40 YEARS ago proves you’re a liar. See? Nuff said)

    As for “sabotage” that’s just more stupidity coming from the mind of a quitter full of excuses.

  689. September 18, 2018 11:24 am

    What “lies”? You’re the one lying and exaggerating and misrespresenting things.

    WWDB teaches no lies nor do they do “misrepresentation”. (They could get sued by amway if they did, NOT to mention we are required by law to provide the ABOV form, a LEGAL document, before registering anybody. )

    Your misresentations here could be subject to a libel lawsuit. Careful. AMWAY has way better lawyers than anything you could afford.
    They’ve already shut down 2 other lame Brain sites.

  690. September 18, 2018 1:16 pm

    I never mentioned the FTC ruling from 40 years ago. But while you’re at it, in the Herbalife ruling, it said the majority of products must be sold to consumers and not self consumed, which is what you are doing.

  691. September 18, 2018 1:17 pm

    Lies? WWDB leaders stood on stage and proclaimed that “nobody” made any profit from tools and support materials. That was a huge lie that they cannot hide anymore.

    They said Amway/WWDB saves marriages. Those are lies.

  692. September 18, 2018 2:40 pm

    Nobody ever stood on stage and said nobody profits from tools etc. That’s your lie.

    Ken TOLD me there’s a member price and a non members price for books or audios.

    And I know of several marriages that are better off for doing Amway business

  693. September 18, 2018 4:11 pm

    But you pay close to $50 a month for that “member’s” price.

    You lie about “nobody ever stood on stage and said nobody profits from tools” I sat in the audience when diamonds stood on stage and claimed that. This was in the 90’s when the internet wasn’t readily available and information wasn’t as accessible as it is now days.

    That lie was later retracted by the diamonds when they could no longer perpetuate the ongoing lie.

  694. September 18, 2018 4:19 pm

    Whatever dude. Want me to send you a check for those “losses”??

  695. September 19, 2018 9:05 am

    No, but a good start would be to admit you lied or was ignorant about this very important fact.

  696. September 19, 2018 9:08 am

    What lie? As Jesus Christ is my witness I am not a liar. I’m incapable of lying.

  697. September 19, 2018 11:31 am

    You said false information. WWDB diamonds did stand on stage and say nobody made profits on tools and functions. Heck, they even said WWDB was a non profit organization, although that was retracted pretty quickly.

    Malchy Smith said: “”Nobody ever stood on stage and said nobody profits from tools etc. That’s your lie.””

    Mistaken or ignorant?

  698. September 19, 2018 12:21 pm

    Not for profit is not a “non profit” corporation. Git yr facts straight bubba.

    Again I NEVER seen or heard anybody on stage saying “nobody makes any money”. My own upline said there’s the membership price and the non members price for CDs ($7.00 vs $2.50..). I DOUBT anybody is getting rich off 4.50.

  699. September 19, 2018 12:26 pm

    And while we’re on your misrepresented statement on “nonprofit” (wwdb was never declared or filed as such. It is a LLC not for profit. There is a difference. )

    How about red Cross or Good Will. Most of that money goes to the CEOs and executives under “operation expenses” & less than 30% actually helps people.

  700. September 19, 2018 3:38 pm

    The non profit statement was when I was in Amway. I don’t think they have the nerve to try that now.

    What’s with your strawman argument about Red Cross or Goodwill? Unlike WWDB, those agencies actually help people.

  701. September 19, 2018 3:41 pm

    “””According to them, supplies are from Amway, and training is furnished by
    Worldwide Dream Builders (supposedly a non-profit organization). This
    type of business is supposedly called “network marketing.””””

    This comment is from 1993. That’s a few years before I joined.!topic/misc.consumers/K1fRi6P6UoA%5B1-25%5D

  702. September 19, 2018 3:48 pm

    They didn’t say “non-profit”. Maybe you misheard. Ron Puryear himself said it’s a “not for profit LLC”. Look up the definition genius. It’s like a co-op or association. (And, yes we keeps plenty of revenue to pay for things like the home office, employee payroll, staff, supplies, equipment, technical investment in things like aps and websites, NOT to mention paying the high cost of functions in areas that don’t make enough to pay their own costs.)

  703. September 19, 2018 3:51 pm

    That isn’t what our group was told when I first heard it in 1996.

  704. September 19, 2018 3:52 pm

    Recent Amway/WWDB comment. Former eagle as well:

    “””May 11, 2018 at 6:11 pm
    These commenters are trying to pretend the business is legitimate. Ask your big pin Upline (or any big pin speaking on stage) how much money they make from Worldwide or whatever LOS you’re in. Ask. If they tell you they don’t make any money, they are lying. Ask them why there isn’t a lot of training time spent on retailing, but instead motivation and how to sponsor (Many groups just buy their own PV, and report 50 of it as retail).

    This isn’t old information either. My sources: my own experience as an ex WWDB Eagle 2500, and my ex-Emerald (20-30k people in their business) upline.

    If you do what your coaches teach you (4 functions, 200-300pv /mo, WW, KATE, Digital) then you cannot make money until you’re a 2500 pin, which means you have to recruit (because you can’t retail online, and extremely difficult to retail profitably otherwise). People don’t count their ditto/monthly orders as a loss, but they should, because you won’t make money w/ out purchasing your own stuff. Nobody retails, and if somebody does, they are the exception, and if nobody does consistently.

    Amway is not a legitimate business.”””

  705. September 19, 2018 4:51 pm

    Ron Puryear, founders crown ambassador, and co-founders WWDB, got 15 customers when he started. Retail is (last I checked) part of 10/10 core. Let me say it again: CORE.
    BOTH Severn and Dunc SAID you turn your nos into customers. Really simple. I’ve done it. Anybody who’s consistent can get members and clients. But the focus is on building the network.

  706. September 20, 2018 7:35 am

    THIS is lies. Ain’t no emerald with 20,000 people in their downline (who then would QUiT? I don’t think so. )

  707. September 21, 2018 12:13 pm

    Turning nos into customers is easier said than done. Not to mention Puryear and Duncan were making bank selling premiere club, KATE and function tickets,.

  708. September 21, 2018 12:14 pm

    You can have a big downline where many people quit and/or do nothing. In that case you make no money so quitting is very plausible.

  709. September 21, 2018 12:43 pm

    Yes Ron bought his jet and his overly large “house” off functions and Kate 🙄.

    Gimme a break.

    You can keep your stupidity I’ll pursue freedom.

  710. September 21, 2018 1:22 pm

    Based on bankruptcy papers, we saw that Greg Duncan made just as much $$$ from KATE, functions etc as he did from Amway. Why would Ron be any different?

  711. September 21, 2018 1:45 pm

    Show me the money (show me the proof baby)

  712. September 21, 2018 1:48 pm

    You know I’m going to show the plan anyway using the AP & the literature from Amway. Just explaining the 3 options (business builder/ wholesale members/ or client) even without Kate or funcions I’m darn sure I can make some money to the tune of hundreds, and then teach others the same. (I’d be very content with a double eagle 4000 business. $1000+ added to my personal income? Rock on!)

  713. September 21, 2018 2:44 pm

    Greg Duncan’s bankruptcy records are public record in the state on Montana.

  714. September 21, 2018 5:30 pm

    Great. Email me a copy of the part about Kate & CDs

  715. September 22, 2018 2:57 pm

    Great. So go fetch wm for me and show us the money from Kate/ BSM

  716. September 22, 2018 3:01 pm

    Yeah double digits growth in North America. MOST of the recent decline was in foreign markets.

  717. September 24, 2018 1:09 pm

    Amway says double digit growth. Just lie you say someone made millions of dollars.

  718. September 24, 2018 1:10 pm

    Do you seriously think the diamonds don’t make significant money from KATE and other BSM including functions?

  719. September 24, 2018 1:18 pm

    I challenge you to read this. A double diamond suing his upline over tool/BSM money.

  720. September 24, 2018 1:19 pm

    How much tool money? From the legal documents:

    “”Plaintiffs seek to recover tens of millions of dollars of lost revenues””

  721. September 24, 2018 1:49 pm

    How many multimillion dollar homes can one buy with $40?

  722. September 24, 2018 2:44 pm

    How many homes did Greg Duncan have foreclosed because 40k wasn’t enough?

  723. September 24, 2018 2:47 pm

    “tens of millions”? Yeahhh right. Off of “40,000 a month” (from a business that, according to you, doesn’t work. 😂😂😂😎).

    I’d live just fine on $40,000 a month. Do you make that much?

  724. September 25, 2018 10:50 am

    Tens of millions should tell you that selling premiere club, KATE and functions is a lucrative business.

    40k per month is good money. More than I used to earn. But it’s all relative. I never filed chapter 7 bankruptcy, never had credit card debt, and never owed 1.7 million to the government for back taxes either.

  725. September 25, 2018 10:56 am

    So it’s all about YOU isn’t it.

  726. September 25, 2018 2:45 pm

    Look, if you can do basic math it’s easy to see where Amway and WWDB falls short.

    Let’s say a platinum has 99 downline. The group including the platinum ha 100 people. They all moved 100 PV. Thus the group generates 10,000 PV and approximately 30,000 BV.

    25% bonus of 30,000 BV is about $7500. The average income of this group is $75, although we know most IBOs will just get $10 and the platinum will get the lion’s share of that bonus.

    So if each of these IBOs are on KATE, WWDB premiere club and attend function, they are probably spending about $150 a month on tools and BSM. $150 x 100 IBOs = $15,000.

    The group income is $7500 and the group expenses on WWDB/BSM is $15,000

    The group loses $7500 a month. Only the higher ups who get paid for tools are profiting. Nearly all of the rest are losing money. The math backs me up.

  727. September 25, 2018 3:56 pm

    FIRST of all… front line people are going to. Make $200-300 per month, not including their retail customers. Newest peopleAt 100 PV you get (well..3% of $300 plus any retail profits. )

    Second of all WWDB teaches 150 PV, which , times 6 (it’s in the plan, legally approved)is over 1000 PV which will profit them over 9%. $300-400 per month, then the newest persons get 3% plus the up front retail profits on themselves and the customer.

    Third of all I didn’t get in to go 1000 (or 4000). I got in to make $2500 a month at direct.

  728. September 25, 2018 3:56 pm

    FIRST of all… front line people are going to. Make $200-300 per month, not including their retail customers. Newest peopleAt 100 PV you get (well..3% of $300 plus any retail profits. )

    Second of all WWDB teaches 150 PV, which , times 6 (it’s in the plan, legally approved)is over 1000 PV which will profit them over 9%. $300-400 per month, then the newest persons get 3% plus the up front retail profits on themselves and the customer.

    Third of all I didn’t get in to go 1000 (or 4000). I got in to make $2500 a month at direct.

  729. September 25, 2018 4:00 pm

    Dumb@$$. Using $8 a day/ $240 a month and THEN switching 3 customers will get you $350 a month. THAT covers core.

    Nobody’s losing anything. ‘the group loses $7500″. Smfh. 🙄. Bull###$$

  730. September 26, 2018 11:06 am

    How many actual customers do you have who are not family/friends?

    Why does WWDB teach “buy from yourself”?

    I just gave you a crystal clear example of how a group of IBOs lose money if they are on the WWDB system.

  731. September 26, 2018 11:12 am

    When someone runs out of cogent arguments, the name calling begins. Of course I can calm and collected.

  732. September 26, 2018 11:13 am

    DUDE that’s impossible (& inaccurate)! What DOES WWDB teach?( Hint: step 3 of CORE).

    150 PV to 300 PV personal circle will net you $150-350 in profit. Kate: $39.95. Premier: 49.95. funcions? $30. Once every 3 months. + 3 majors at $125 + travel annually. (that’s less than $2000 annual cost for majors + $120 for regionals = less than $200 a month +$100 for Kate + audios. Throw in $20 a month for a book. It’s still less than $350 a month cost for CORE.

    SO YOUR first circle pays for CORE.

  733. September 26, 2018 11:15 am

    “Joe” you can’t even (put) a sentence together.

    And you’ve demonstrated VERY poor math skills. If you didn’t succeed then you weren’t good enough.

  734. September 26, 2018 11:38 am

    I don’t care what WWDB teaches. They can tell you to get 1 million customers that buy one product a month and you now make $1 million dollars a month. Theory means nothing.

    How many actual customers does your Amway business have that aren’t family and friends?
    Zero? *crickets*?

    Poor math skills? Well then it should be easy to point out what I posted that was mathematically incorrect. That’s a common Amway defense. Accuse someone of being wrong or lying but not identifying what it is.

  735. September 26, 2018 12:04 pm

    So then quit spouting off all your stupid theories. You quit. You failed. You “lost” as you keep saying. Byeeee

  736. September 26, 2018 12:39 pm

    So what did I post that was mathematically incorrect or did you just make it up? Why do you avoid answering?

    How many actual customers do you have that are not friends or family? Why do you avoid answering?

    I quit. It was a good business decision. Funny how you say I failed, as if Amway is the only way to succeed in life. It’s amazing the kind of stuff that’s taught in the cult of Amway.

  737. September 26, 2018 2:00 pm

    I got a couple of customers (who I did not know prior to the business)license who decided rather than “signing up” they’d rather pay retail. Simple. That’s exactly how Brad Duncan said it would work. (& So what if my mom or my sister wanna order something. What am I gonna do say no?)

  738. September 26, 2018 2:48 pm

    A couple of customers isn’t going to make you enough to pay for your business expenses.

    And what did I post that was mathematically incorrect? I assume you completely made it up which is why you are now avoiding this question.

  739. September 26, 2018 3:03 pm

    I can’t really. I’ve lost track of all the factual errors you’ve posted here.

    Just theories and exxagerations.

    (How about we start with “the group is losing $7500”. That has no basis in FACT. Theory is all it is). THIS contradicts your own statement that as 4000 your check was $1000. Guess that blows your “everybody’s making $75 a month” theory right out of the water bubba.

    And you asked me how many customers who were NOT friends & family. Heck Even with 2 customers spending $240 a month or $8 day as I do, that’s $500 a month in round numbers. Times 20% = $100 a month plus my 300 PV check plus my 20% wholesale discount of around $60 puts my profit over $200.

    Have a nice day. Quitter.

  740. September 27, 2018 10:23 am

    You lost track of all my factual errors. What baloney.

    The group losing $7500 is obviously hypothetical but it shows that a group of dedicated IBOs would spend more on tools/training than the bonus they generate. It’s not much different than the 6-4-2 plan that’s commonly shown to prospects.

    The $75 per month is the average income for 100 IBOs if they generate $7500 in bonuses. That’s not mathematically incorrect and has nothing to do with my 4000 PV business at the time.

    Regarding customers, how many do YOU have that spend $240 a month? Probably none except yourself.

    Quitter? Yeah, proud of myself for making a wise business decision.

  741. September 27, 2018 10:57 am

    You make such an ASSumption.
    Yeah. Hypotheticals. (Who CARES about your FAILED hypothetical nonsense. I listened to people who have made over $100,000 a year – & I’ll duplicate THEM – not you!)

  742. September 27, 2018 1:28 pm

    There’s that unverified income claim again. For the record, I made over $100,000 a year when I was working.

    You are unable to defend what I posted so now you are trying to move the goal posts and tossing in some insults.

    And you’re still trying to project your “mentor’s” success as if you automatically become the same. The fact is that these diamonds probably had tens of thousands of IBOs go through their business and failed despite their coaching and mentoring. Because that’s how Amway works.

  743. September 27, 2018 1:36 pm

    So uhmm can you “verify” that (income)?

    Howie made $200,000 when he was working. What’s your point??

    Ken’s dad was one of the top insurance agents before he (went Ruby and) closed his office.

    So…what is your point??

  744. September 27, 2018 2:58 pm

    Still projecting the success of some diamond. What have YOU done in Amway? Where is your success? You haven’t even topped my 4000 pin yet.

    What is your point? 🙂

  745. September 27, 2018 4:03 pm

    I’ll kill your 4000 and burry you

    What’s your point??

  746. September 27, 2018 8:36 pm

    I think it’s a good time to close comments on this thread. You’ve both had more than enough space to debate this back and forth.


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