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TEAM Approach Volume

November 23, 2010

I read a comment on Lazy Man’s post today regarding a new method for building the business within TEAM called Team Approach Volume:

DeAnna says:
November 22, 2010 at 9:32 am

I recently left TEAM. I’m very very glad I did. It was an emotional and financial drain. Especially after the introduction of team approach volume. The way it works is the upline places large quantity orders through the person at the very bottom. The rest of the team buys the extra product. The upline gets the benefit of the bulk order points and the person at the bottom gets a little cash. I watched my upline go bronze by only placing bulk orders through themselves. They got the cash and the points leaving the rest of us SOL.

How is this approach being communicated as a benefit to the people in the middle? I know MLM proponents like to talk about cutting out the middlemen, but this doesn’t seem like a good approach at all for those distributors between the upline and bottom dude. In fact, these MLM middlemen are being turned into customers by having to purchase products from their upline/downline!

What kind of spin are the TEAM leaders giving to make this seem like a good idea?

Any current or ex-TEAM members care to clarify on the TEAM Approach Volume method of building the business?

Update: DeAnne explains in more detail this approach:

It’s supposed to help you go from nothing to ruby in 6 months. Orrin even came out with a special cd explaining it. I always get distracted. Half way through he starts to talk about leadership and kinda sounds like he’s ready to hump the audience…..It’s a bit scary.

The people in the middle get the extra pv from all the volume that’s going on at the bottom. By splitting up a bulk order the product is cheaper too. After you’ve done it successfully in one leg you’re supposed to duplicate the process in a second leg. By doing it in both legs you accumulate more pv faster thus moving quickly through the ranks. In addition to that you’re supposed to be going power player in order to fortify it. Power player is 10 in your taproot leg with 4 on system and 5 in your second leg with 2 on system.

In reality you’re just buying product that you don’t need in order to get points that most people can’t utilize. No matter how many bulk orders you put through in your taproot none of that counts towards making money. When you start to do it on your second leg you’re the only person that feels the benefit because you’re at the top. The benefit is minimal unless you have a large second leg with everyone doing at least 200 pv in autoship. The product isn’t actually cheaper unless you’re buying extreme amounts. Even then you only save on shipping. An actual bulk order cost around $1000 depending on what you buy. Someone has to shell out that much just to hope that others can buy the extra.

None of this extra buying counts toward you being active either. You still need to have 200 pv in personal autoship. Of course real leaders have 300 which puts them in the 300 club and qualifies them for extra meetings.

They say that not only do you help yourself but you’re also helping the person at the bottom as well as your upline. Together everyone achieves more! My head hurts just thinking about it.

My head hurts too. Doesn’t look like there are many outside customers purchasing the juice here.

Update #2: A response on LM’s site from Anonymous Aussie that explains how the Team Approach Volume method might be in violation of MonaVie’s own guidelines.

Tsk tsk, scammer – this practice isn’t allowed as confirmed in Monavie’s own policies and procedures:

6.2 Buying Rank Prohibited. Purchasing Product for the purpose of earning Bonuses or achieving rank is prohib¬ited. We retain the right to limit the amount of purchases you may make if we reasonably believe those purchases are being made solely for rank and other qualification purposes instead of for resale or business building. We may revoke a rank advancement if it was earned in viola¬tion of this policy.

7.4 Bonus Buying Prohibited. Bonus buying is strictly and absolutely prohibited. Bonus buying includes… purchasing Products on behalf of another Dis¬tributor or Customer, unless authorized herein, or through another Distributor’s or Customer’s ID number, to qualify for Bonuses; (5) purchasing excessive amounts of goods or services that cannot reasonably be used or resold in a month; and/or (6) any other mechanism or artifice to qualify for rank advancement, incentives, prizes, or Bonuses that is not driven by bona fide Product purchases by end user consumers.

How on earth you can remotely justify this practice as being either a legitimate or sustainable business practice – bearing in mind the transfer of funds moving through the team and company are primarily as a result of the investments and purchases of the sales force itself, is beyond any the understanding of any person with a remote amount of basic business sense.

Furthermore, this is what is also referred to front end or inventory loading – a huge red flag when it comes to identifying an illegal pyramid scheme. Says the FTC:

“3. If a plan purports to sell a product or service, check to see whether its price is inflated, whether new members must buy costly inventory, or whether members make most “sales” to other members rather than the general public. If any of these conditions exist, the purported “sale” of the product or service may just mask a pyramid scheme that promotes an endless chain of recruiting and inventory loading.”

March 5, 2011: Here is another comment about the nature of TEAM Approach Volume from my popular More Ex-TEAM Members Commenting About Their Experiences post:

DID I ALSO HEAR TEAM LEADERS ARE BRIBING NEW PEOPLE TO GO ON SYSTEM?????offering them cash to buy their tools, cds,tickets, etc.??( So i believe people can be indoctrinated so they spend more time and money????) OH YES I DID HEAR THAT ONE FROM THE INSIDE. USING TEAM APPROACH VOLUME, CALLED STRETCH AND SECURE!!! Here is how it is done. Basically when leaders of Team get someone started in mv on the bottom, they ask them to commit to going on system and autoship of mv ie: buying standing order of cd’s and books and standing order seminar ticket, or called sot, and buying mv monthly. THEN THE LEADERS WILL PLACE A BULK ORDER UNDER THIS NEW PERSON OF SAY 12 CASES OF MV, 1000 pv
AND THEN THE LEADER WILL PAY OVER $100 cash TO THE NEW PROSPECT. The new prospect gets the money, is now on system so the leader can make money from profit sharing ( which is not disclosed) and the new guy also can now walk across stage at the seminar as new star 1000 on his team! A person who just got in and did nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then there will be false recognition to lead more people in Team…. Oh how disgustingly deceptive isn’t it. So it was said to me people are walking across stage for something they didn’t do or understand. The leaders in a leg pick the two weeks they will do this throughout the whole team so all the leaders with bigger teams will then get to a bigger level in MV for more recognition…and money. All the volume will come from the bottom up and THE LEADER will hit a new pin level that they wont hit for a long time after, but they will be edified for it profusely, and get recognition at the seminars, ultimately to get more people to believe !!!!!!!!! They also will then gain a bunch of unsuspecting, uninformed people to go on their system and tickets, to spend their money. So that the LEADER can then can get more money from the profit sharing pot because he now has a bunch more people on system!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The pot that noone knows about!!!! They will then walk across stage again for turbo 25, turbo 50, turbo 100 etc. They will pick the new guys who are serious about wanting to build the , throughout their legs pay them and put the bulk order under them. Oh and I almost forgot, then the LEADERS sell the mv juice, from the bulk orders, back to the distributors who are already on their team at a discount so that they can buy it for case amount which saves them a lot of money on juice!!!!!! So then this ultimately hurts mv because now you have people claiming they are diamonds and yet most weeks do not have diamond volume. Now the average diamond income that is on the ids will have to be brought down, then making the company numbers look worse, because these people are really no where near diamond volume!!! Besides this volume loading, being unethical and deceptive to say the least, it is against MV rules to buy pin levels!!! When i heard this I was utterly disgusted!!!! DECEPTION AT IT’S FINEST!!!!! Let me know if I left out anything??? If you don’t understand, ask as I know it is hard to understand the language.

Rykel – do you care to respond to this?

13 Comments leave one →
  1. November 24, 2010 12:00 pm

    Hi, I am back (again) to help correct or clarify any MIS-information about TEAM here, and thank you Amthrax for providing this forum as I can see so many misinformation/allegations indeed! Sometimes, just helping people to be fair and moderate is a full-time job… and a thankless one.

    Case in point – if I kept on replying, then anti-Amway kingpins say that I am not STPing and wasting my time on the internet. If I am too busy STPing and hence have no time to keep posting replies, then in the same breath, they accuse me of running away. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

    I just came back from a STP tonight where I met a prospect who was a bit against the idea of Commerce Through Community (CTC), and now he is sure that there are at least 2 community builders who are GOOD, and trying to professionalise the industry. (ie. his friend, my downline IBO, and me – and I give the glory to the Lord. God is in control.) Well, he is not going to be involved with CTC just yet simply because he has now met 2 good IBOs, but he informed his friend that he is OK now with trying out MonaVie Juice! As a RETAIL customer.

    Of course, all the anonymous Jokers will jump onto their keyboard and exclaim that this CANNOT be true – because “NOBODY would buy an overpriced juice as a retail customer!” This is so ridiculous that I laugh HAHAHA all the time (while I am making some good passive income here – hehe), because to go along their reasoning, then “ALL critics of TEAM/MonaVie/Amway are people who are mentally unsound!” Obviously NOT true – even though SOME of the anti-kingpins *might* be mentally unsound indeed.

    Anyway, to get back to topic, I believe DeAnn is again another SUSPICIOUS character. Because he/she seems to even contradict himself/herself with regards to “Team Approach To Volume” (TATV).

    Let me set the record straight:

    1. TATV is a great idea for a GROUP of IBO, from the same side of the Binary Leg, who needs to buy more products for resale to RETAIL/”Just User”-type of Customers OR for Personal Consumption** (eg. 12 cases needed by 12 IBOs);
    2. TATV means that this group will ask the last IBO at the bottom of their Binary Leg to purchase the 12 cases as a Bulk Pricing Order (CHEAPER);
    3. Each IBO then buys their 1 additional case from the 12);
    4. Each IBO then gets an additional 900PV credited to the Binary Leg above that last IBO; and
    5. As long as each of these IBO continues to move 100PV every 28 days, then the “extra” 900PV from the bottom will ALWAYS be there – ready to be cashed out the moment any of them matches another 900PV on the other Binary Leg.

    DeAnna said, “I watched my upline go bronze by only placing bulk orders THROUGH THEMSELVES (emphasis mine).” This DeAnna, unfortunately again, has shot himself/herself through the foot and I SUSPECT that he/she is NOT a true TEAM Member, because — if uplines are ordering products through themselves, rather than through the IBO at the bottom of the Binary Leg, then this is NOT Team Approach To Volume!!!

    YET, the WHOLE gist of DeAnna’s post is about TATV!!! Now, does it make sense to you or NO??

    As a parting note, I share a story I heard as a child… A centaur met a man. It was winter. They were both drinking a hot bowl of soup. The man blew the soup to cool it. Then, the man felt cold. He blew on his hands to warm them. The centaur stood up and said, “I am leaving! I cannot leave with a creature who blows BOTH HOT AND COLD with the same breath!”

    The story above is NOT meant for Amthrax.

    ** This is the LAST time I will say this — that YES, RETAIL AND JUST-USER-TYPE OF CUSTOMERS DO EXIST – AND THERE ARE LOTS OF THEM. Loud enough? Do you need me to take a photograph of them with juice on their teeth and have them sign a notary-stamped Letter of Authenticity with a Government letterhead before you Jokers will just accept this FACT??? (NOT you Amthrax, I am referring to the others – you know who you are)

  2. November 24, 2010 12:04 pm

    Pardon my grammar and typo errors… it is 4am here in Singapore and I am rushing to bed!

  3. CGC permalink
    November 24, 2010 4:12 pm

    Sure, someone would buy a ridiculously overpriced juice if told enough lies about it. But I doubt they would keep buying it for very long.

    TATV is the most convoluted and absurd process I’ve seen in a long time. Can’t you all just sell the stuff? Like, hello, can I buy a case of juice? Sure, go online and order it. MV seems to be throwing as many middlemen into the mix as possible, with the bulk of the waste going upward.

    And by the way, I’m typing this while levitating 3 feet off the ground. IT CAN BE DONE (though like you I don’t have any evidence for it).

  4. November 25, 2010 8:12 am

    Added in a partial comment from Anonymous Aussie on LM’s site about TATV being in violation of MonaVie’s own guidelines. Check it out above or here:

  5. Anonymous Aussie permalink
    November 28, 2010 2:52 pm

    Thanks for the update on your article, Amthrax.

    The TATV approach as we’ve identified is not only in breach of Monavie’s own policies and procedures, it’s also what’s referred to as inventory loading – something the FTC frown upon greatly.

    The strategy is NOT driven by genuine consumer demand and we have seen DeAnna confirm how this practice of inventory loading has left distributors with stockpiles of product which are unable to be re-sold (again, because the purchases were not made based on genuine consumer demand).

    If Monavie/TEAM were in the business of selling juice, they would look at strategies addressing sales targets specifically and ways to market the product to more consumers – NOT manipulating the system internally themselves and placing the burden on the middle man (which as you have pointed out forces the distributor to then become the customer) and the man at the bottom who no doubt can least likely afford a bulk purchase.

    The extent of manipulation by TEAM confirms firstly their experience in pyramid scams and secondly, that they are knowingly participating in, promoting and profiting from a product-based pyramid scheme.

  6. Burned Out with Mona Vie permalink
    November 29, 2010 2:45 pm

    Seen this happen too many times unfortunately, violation of a ton of MLM policy’s, yup sure is, have to ask, how many times has MV or any MLM for that matter really enforced it. It’s either a “wink and a nod” or “Don’t you ever do that again or we’ll get really, really, really mad at you”.

    How do you think the top guys can sell MV on e-bay thru a third party for $99 a case with free shipping? When you do the math factoring in the BOB, TC, ECM and Blue / Black Diamond pool, they make chump change in the real world on that kind of buy, HOWEVER, it “fires up” the downline to go crazy dumping folks to the inside leg or doing the same bulk buying to balance their profit leg for their TC, which of course only further benefits the top of the food chain.

    TEAM is nothing new, before TEAM got into the act the “Inner Circle” was telling the “Future Diamonds” or my favorite “Diamonds in The Rough” ( That one still makes me want to barf) to do the same damn thing 5 years ago.

  7. CGreen permalink
    December 1, 2010 2:29 pm

    What I want to know is how many points equals how much money once you’re able to make the money (ie. have two people you brought in on system and one person on your other leg on system). If there’s no exact could you estimate or round out?

  8. Burned Out With MV permalink
    December 14, 2010 7:25 am

    We’ll say you did what your sponsor said a did a first order of a 3 case bulk order and a 2 case autoship and they did the same, I’ll skip the mumbo jumbo and cut to the chase.

    You will spend about $400 to make $180 for signing them up and have a $10 monthly residual income paid out every 5 months you will have to spend a mimimum of $150 a month to qualify for. I rounded it but it’s not far off the real world.

  9. March 5, 2011 9:49 pm

    Rykel, the RESULT is sfill the same, as the guys at the very bottom do get higher ranks in the process. People are inadvertly buying bonuses by purchasing large volumes. TEAM is making it LO0K like it’s helping the bottom guys but you know just as well as we do that TEAM is falling down. Too many people are leaving TEAM and you that. (since you work closely with Woodward)

  10. March 5, 2011 9:50 pm

    oops – “you know that”

  11. March 6, 2011 8:22 am

    I’m sure there is the odd retail customer. I would wager it’s more to accomplish 1 of 2 things:

    1. Ease the sting of telling a Monavier “No”.

    2. Try it out and if it works as it’s purported to, then great!

    Heck, even *I* was a retail customer in Monavie for a month. When it became clear that there was nothing special about Monavie, it simply confirmed my suspicions.

    Rykel, how many people have purchased a bottle a week for over a year? You can even just isolate it to your own organization.

    Very few, I believe.


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