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Ryan’s Song

March 1, 2011

Is there a TEAM rule prohibiting members from visiting web sites that are critical of MonaVie and TEAM? If so, several TEAM members such as Rykel and Ryan have been violating the commandments set forth by Orrin Woodward and company. Guess since they aren’t following every System rule, they won’t succeed in their MonaVie/TEAM ventures, no?

Ryan recently left the following comment on the blog post on ex-TEAM members commenting about their experiences. Instead of approving the comment and posting it there, I posted it below. Pro and Anti-TEAM readers can start debating Ryan here on the virtues of TEAM.

Ryan – here’s your own corner on this blog. Enjoy (for now).

Team is incredible. It has changed my view on life for the better, gotten me going and doing something more with my life, helped repair and create far better relationships, helped my friends find hope again, helped my friends financially, helped my friends physically, helped monavie with helping kids in Brazil, helped me to create my finances making a living doing what i love, helped me see a bigger picture in life, helped me help others with their relationships, helped motivate tons of people to do something greater with their lives, helped me and thousands learn to believe in them selves. NO: team is not responsible for all of my wisdom or gain in life, but it has helped tremendously.

Izzy i read your comments, And you have nothing to be afraid of. People respect the freedom of speech whether the speech is against them or not. I’m honestly a little sad one of my previous posts didn’t get through so i’ll say it again.

You call me insensitive yet I come here blatantly taking blows just to talk to you guys. Listen, there is nothing wrong with forming a community, nothing wrong with warning people about possible dangers or bad risks or investments. I personally would have to disagree on the idea that TEAM is a bad investment, but it’s alright if you believe that, think what ever you want. But here is the deal…

Why are you here? I’ve asked this question before. Most everyone of you is hear because of your emotions. Nothing wrong with that. But how are you reacting to those emotions and how is your actions on this site helping you? So you have been hurt, well we all have before… I have come here, telling you all that i like and support TEAM… Some of you reacted with Compassion, Trying to inform me that I’m on the wrong path. Some of you reacted with Rage. Now here is the interesting part. What deems a person healed is someone who can confront their past and no longer be hindered emotionally by it… or at least be capable of responding in a friendly manner. You haven’t proven to me yet that most of any of you are healed, you just treat me worse and worse as time goes on. That’s the opposite of healing. And obviously this comment is going to make you upset as well… aaand some of you will respond with care, some of you will tell me to shut up. Some of you will quote my messages and twist them or say something contorted and evil to slander my name. Some of you may ignore.

There’s Nothing wrong with being here on this site, There’s nothing wrong with disliking team. But there is something wrong with self destruction. If all you do is spend your time making aggressive remarks or saying unkind things… you only create a subconscious habit of reacting aggressively and unkind to things you dislike, if you don’t believe this look at yourselves. Izzy, Humiliated, Amdroid (where ever you are buddy), you are free from this comment. But you’re allowed to get mad at me, I AM talking about your new friends. I am not saying these are bad people, anyone who thinks anyone is pure evil doesn’t know anything about people or God. I am not even saying you mates here are evil, just on a bad path of self destruction… that will turn you evil. So i am here to help you with that though you have cast me out many times. I am not against helping people heal, but i am against the reduction of emotional control. You really only have two options, Either you control your emotions or your emotions control you… healing starts with self control, not blame and hateful actions.

So again, why are you here? Are you here for emotional self satisfaction through the destruction of others? Are you here as a support link to help others and yourself cope with emotional turmoil? You need not answer, you’ve already answered through your actions and words. And if you say you’re here to pick out the weeds in Gods garden, Your answer is the first one, only problem is, TEAM is not a weed, as proven by my first statement here.

I am praying for everyone on this blog and even those who do not know what is happening to them. I am praying that God will open their eyes, free their minds and show them the light!!!

116 Comments leave one →
  1. aurora permalink
    March 1, 2011 3:33 pm

    Phew. I need a nap. This guy just doesn’t get it. Wow.

    Ryan, for goodness’ sake, shorten the diatribes, already. You live in a mlm netherworld. You are not going to change our views of amway/team/wwdb, etc.

    Go back to screaming in the garage.

  2. Simple IBO permalink
    March 1, 2011 4:25 pm

    Aurora, Why are you so negative toward this type of business? What do you gain by constantly blogging negatively? Are you trying to be a savior of all those who may go down the path of “MLM netherworlds”??

    You had a bad experience. PERIOD. Others will have bad experiences. PERIOD. Others will have good experiences. PERIOD.

    You simply cannot logically say that a group of millions of people (IBO’s) are nut jobs and mean it………can you? That’s like saying I met someone from Canada once, he was a nut-job, therefore ALL Canadians are Nut-Jobs. If you can honestly say that, then there is no point in reading my response further.

    If you can see the faulty logic in painting MASS amounts of people with the same brush, then read on.

    You have only experienced a small fraction of an entire industry that contracts enormous group of people. Can you logically deduce that everyone’s the same?

    I AGREE with you that there are NUT-JOBS. I AGREE with you that there are people that are ‘uplines’ who are selfishly motivated and will use others. I AGREE with you that there are problems with the industry. I AGREE with you on a lot of the issues you so eloquently describe. I AGREE.

    Now, can we agree that these problems and ‘nut-jobs’ are not indicative of the industry as a whole?? One politician who is adulterous and exposed in the media is not indicative of the ENTIRE government!!

    How about this, you could write:

    “I had an extraordinarily BAD experience with some people associated with Amway. May I reiterate – EXTRAORDINARY. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I would never consider, not even in my wildest dreams, of becoming an IBO or being associated with any business that is structured as MLM. But, I am not naive enough to believe that my experience is indicative of an entire industry. Based on my experience, I would encourage anyone considering an MLM company to do thorough and extensive research. Understand the chances of success and fully consider the effort that would be required. Ask as many questions as you can to fully understand what it is you are getting into. Please feel free to email me at ihadabadexperience@gmail.com if you would like further information”

    I we could agree on that one point,that one huge and important point, think of the amount of time you’d save by not blogging!

    Can we agree on that?

    Can we agree on that?

  3. webelieved permalink
    March 1, 2011 4:42 pm

    Ryan, uses this guilt manipulation tactic (which i am sure many recognize) to try to shut us up about the truth of what has happened to us and yes if you just buy a few books and quit you will have his opinion. Apparently Ryan hasn’t read all the comments under exteam experiences, OR he doesn’t have a heart… Ryan obviously did not build the business and invest his time, money, use his retirement to keep going, give up his job, give up his business and then have his team business systematically destroyed and finally taken after years and years of apparently false promises!! Years of work away from our kids, 5-6 days a week!!!! Like Orrin says do you take advice from someone with experience, right? That would be me and others and not Ryan… he quit which clearly shows it isn’t as great as he thinks!!! Do not try to use guilt/shame tactics on me, they won’t work!!!! That’s what team leaders use!!!
    If you are new, I believe in self help and bettering yourself, get your books at the library and hang out with people at your church and save yourself a lot of heartache and money, I am sure your pastor could reccommend the same books and counsel you better as he is trained!!!!
    p.s. Let’s analyze this………… logically what do I have to gain telling these things?? Nothing!!
    Although Team Leaders have a lot to gain from people getting involved in Team
    it is called TOOL $$

    and by the way I refuse to answer Ryan anymore, it is a waste of my precious time!!!

  4. March 1, 2011 4:49 pm

    Well, Ryan, you’re a lucky one, as being a salesman does require talent. Why is it that when I told my upline that when l wanted to quit multiple times she discouraged me from leaving? Even AFTER showing her my maxing-outcredit statements? BTW Iwanted so bad to succeed but it ain’t for me!

  5. March 1, 2011 5:14 pm

    Amthrax – Thank you so much for this post. I can’t stop laughing. It is so cute that Ryan has his own little corner, lmao!

    webelieved said- “p.s. Let’s analyze this………… logically what do I have to gain telling these things?? Nothing!!
    Although Team Leaders have a lot to gain from people getting involved in Team
    it is called TOOL $$”

    — VERY GOOD POINT!! We are on here trying to blow the whistle and WARN people and it looks like most of the people commenting are former RT, Triple 100 leaders and profit sharers who were CLOSER to the leaders than ANYONE else on here. RYAN, we are not trying to make you take are advice, but these kingpins every move is all about keeping you sucked into their scheme so that they can profit. Nobody makes money at this business. PERIOD!

  6. March 1, 2011 5:19 pm

    Simple IBO – Why do you want us to stop blogging? Afraid the truth will hurt your business? Good thing it is a free country and we have the freedom to do whatever the HELL we want. You clearly are drinking the juicy fruit and are a sucker. Guess what, I don’t care if you see our side of the story or not. I do care about warning a potential new prospect that gets hit up with this business for the first time and happens to stumble across this site doing research on what this business is truly about.

    Also, never say MILLIONS of distributors. Team, MonaVie and Orrin’s little LIFE TRAINING business will never reach that amount of distributors and is probably only at a mere 5 or 6k of butts in seats at the major. They are a long shot from a million, or millions.

  7. team deception permalink
    March 1, 2011 5:56 pm

    IGNORE!!! He is just trying to get us all off course. Stick with the program of bringing this scam down to its knees.

  8. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 6:08 pm

    Thanks mate, i’ve said the same before and gotten the same response from people. I’m not fighting for the MLMs but i have pointed out and gotten at least one person to understand that People control MLMs, and people aren’t perfect, but that doesn’t mean MLMs are bad, and that doesn’t mean all people in MLMs are bad, just some bad eggs here and there.

  9. team deception permalink
    March 1, 2011 6:31 pm

    Sorry couldnt resist.

    Ryan, your awesome. Dumb but awesome.

    How low were you in life that you needed a $45.00 juice to get you going in life? Was it the juice itself or the promise of having a big boat someday? You are making it sound like your life was headed to an end UNTIL one day the super fruit juice that doesn’t do anyhting,other than cost $200.00 a month, came into your life to save the day. Come on Ryan your better than this right?????

    You are not making money and you know it. http://www.juicescam.com/its-not-a-matter-of-effort-its-a-mathematical-certainty/

    Its also not helping you or your friends physically. You want to get healthy? Eat and apple and exercise.
    http://www.juicescam.com/monavie-vs-an-apple/

    Dont get us started on the More project… Its another scam within a scam thats within a major scam.
    http://www.juicescam.com/the-more-project-is-misusing-funds/

    Ryan says “helped me help others with their relationships, helped motivate tons of people to do something greater with their lives, helped me and thousands learn to believe in them selves”

    What? How is going broke, not getting healthy, and having a garage full of wine bottles filled with nasty juice helping people? You my friend are part of the bigger picture of scamming innocent people to better yourself and TEAM has helped you become that person. Now that’s a leadership revolution!!!

  10. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 6:33 pm

    Because your upline either wanted you to stay in it for her, or wanted you to stay in it for you.

    People have told me and also their uplines that i speak to that they were thinking about quitting before, much like you. Our response is always “we aren’t going to keep you here and you may leave if you want to, but we would like to know why or if there’s anything we can do to help.” Because we tend to be in it for the people, Because we understand that the world is run by people, and if you serve and put other people first you get far more out of life. And (at least for me) I let people choose their own life and destiny, Like God, so loving, Lets us choose ours… even lets us choose not to believe in him. He still tries to correct us and put us through a bit of struggle now and then so we may learn and become greater… But i love and, try my best to, accept people no matter where they are or where they choose to head. Obviously i fail from time to time though.

    Our answer to you would have been “maybe you should settle down for a short time on buying things for your biz while you fix your credit card statement and put food on the table, and here is a CD about finances, it really helped me to understand how to avoid getting in debt and keep better control over my money, maybe you already know what’s on this CD but it really helped me a lot.” Now, i’m not saying you don’t know how to control your money, but i am saying that I personally would have told you to hold back if you can’t afford everything yet, not overspend beyond your limits. Now i also say that one should take risks, but if it’s absolutely not a risk you’re willing to take knowing that no matter what happens you’re still okay, or still sticking in for the long run, please do not make that risk for your own safety.

    How would you have responded differently if instead of what your upline said to you, your upline said what i said to you just now? (just curious)

    You shoulden’t worry though; God will provide for you if your focus is in the right direction… you’re still alive and you still have food shelter water and so on. My priest said last Sunday as he read the gospel, something along the lines of: To worry is to not trust your life in the hands of God. I’m not saying you’re a bad christian or ANYTHING like that lol i’m just saying you shouldn’t worry about life, it’s going to be alright. =)

  11. Vogel permalink
    March 1, 2011 6:34 pm

    Jeez IBO…that’s so disrespectful. This is RYAN’s song! You’re whistling a different tune.

  12. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 7:33 pm

    Hahaha, thanks mate, i appreciate it. =) But only awesome people themselves call other people awesome.

    I got on board team before the monavie thing, it wasn’t the juice, it was strictly the teachings. I Had a coming strong belief in myself because of a MMORPG (people liked me there more than “IRL” and i began to change, to become more like the in-game me. This resulted in a heightened self esteem and a better more Selfless Ryan. (the two go together hand and hand) However The Team came, began teaching me success principals and i learned about myself more and thus enriched my self belief once more.

    Now i used to think dreams were for stupid people, since i was like 10. it was awful. But Team taught me to Dream again and so now i make money as a musician and plan to do far better things… now i understand that i have a purpose in life and i am fulfilling it with most of my time (because i don’t have a job to go to 40+hrs a week).

  13. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 7:47 pm

    You guys DO know that 100% of the money from the tools goes back to the community (except for the money used to pay for the tools themselves) Right? You only have to reach “director” before you start getting that money. Director really isn’t that high… in fact, anyone in TEAM and Monavie, as long as their at the director level and above, makes near 2x as much because of tools sales… that’s not a bad deal… not a bad deal at all. =) Oh and the tools teach you success principals =) those are nice and useful!

  14. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    March 1, 2011 7:49 pm

    Ryan – I’m going to type this very slowly. Please try to keep up.

    I know you are so convinced that OW, CB, TM, your upline, everyone on TEAM really has your best interest in mind. They would NEVER compromise their integrity, moral courage, values, character, or principles just to make a $.

    I can only tell you this. Currently there are former RT members, TEAM Home Office Employees, etc that are contributing to this blog in an attempt to open the eyes of people who, like many of us at one time, fell for this facade that is TEAM.

    Do you think I’m making up the fact that OW and CB instructed people to make CD packs that made no sense to the business? Packs that themselves were a joke. The re-release of LLR as a BOM even though EVERYONE already had one? The re working of the contract, etc. We are not making this stuff up, one just couldn’t make it up. OW has a long history of using those around him for his own gain, and then when he’s done with them he trashes them. Well now it’s time for OW to taste his own medicine.

    You can make the choices for yourself, however, to blindly follow this man will only cost you time, and money.

    Do I believe that I gained anything during my time with TEAM and any part of The System, yes, I learned a great deal from reading a lot of books that I never would have thought of prior to being part of TEAM. However, I was asked to do things that compromised my integrity and I will never forget that “ah ha” moment when I realized I was being used. I very quickly took stock of ME and when given the chance to detach myself I did so rather quickly.

    Today I truly work for myself, I work from home, I do what I want to. I may not have a million dollars in the bank, but I sleep very well at night.

  15. March 1, 2011 7:57 pm

    Ryan not ALL MLMs are bad…I give you that one.

    Pamper Chef, Mary Kay, Avon are examples of clean, legal, healthy business plans centered around a product that people want, are happy with buying and they are not forced to personally consume.

    You are sticking up for a business (Team Life Training, MonaVie) that fails in comparison to the previous MLMs that I mentioned. Not only do they product load, but they do not retail, they also promote the opportunity as the business vs. selling a quality product at an affordable price. All of these reasons along are enough to show that this business is a scam and pyramid. People do not MAKE MONEY with MonaVie. The NUMBERS DO NOT LIE.

    Now take all of that and add on the Team Life Training Orrin Woodward Tool Scam and you have a recipe for disaster. EVERYONE on this blog is sharing their experiences with Team/MonaVie. Sure they may have learned some great life lessons from the system (but newsflash…they can get that at their church, or local book store for way less money). Moreover, the people talking here are people that were on the INSIDE. They were the lucky few that actually collected a paycheck from this and guess what? THE MONEY STILL IS NOT THERE. It is only there for the PC members and a handful of others. According to the Forbes article Team boasts of having 60,000 members, though I would bet that number has dwindled down to 5,ooo or 6,000 IBOs at a team major. That is drastically lower than what they had two-three years ago when they were pushing 20,000+ people in seats at a major. This is a sinking ship. You may only have 5-10 families that are truly making good money and the rest are being HAD. If you are looking for life changing values to apply in your life, go to church, find a mentor or pick up some books at Barnes and Nobles. If you want to get it from Team, then go ahead…that is your prerogative, but just know that you and 99.5% of everyone else in the business will be spending hundreds each month in juice and on leadership tickets and tools when you can get that else where for way less coin.

    Also, the other stories that people are sharing here are more than us saying ‘Hey this business doesn’t work, you won’t make money etc. etc.’ But rather people are sharing ETHICAL, MORAL and LEGAL issues with Team and its Leaders since they were literally LIED to, had Teams STOLEN from them and SLANDERED on their way out the door. Is this the right way that so called leaders and Christians should treat their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ? I don’t think so hun.

    Please use a little logic and see that people here are just trying to warn others and share the horror stories that they experienced, and remember…they were Round Table Members and Triple 100s that you listened to on CD, heard at the Opens, saw being praised and edified by Orrin. These people deserve more respect than you are giving them as they have come out and ‘Blown The Whistle’ on a scam thats end has come.

  16. March 1, 2011 8:01 pm

    ditto!

  17. March 1, 2011 8:15 pm

    Ok, I cut my autoshipto 1 case of juice, my upline disapproved. As my credit was getting higher, I cut offthe TEAM system. She again disapproved. She was also pushing me to go to a Major, against Hubby’s wishes. When it came to +he point that I no longercould afford the juice she disapproved telling I was going to lose my success & bonuses When I start making commissions. HELLO! I haven’t gotten any commissions OR recruits in 7 MoNTHS! The whole time she knew I was on Welfare, she knew about my debt maxing out yet she pushed me forward. I had no choice but to give up.

  18. March 1, 2011 8:18 pm

    I do grudging admit that you sound more reasable, but don’t cosy up to this tiger just yet! *snarl*

  19. March 1, 2011 8:22 pm

    Well-put, Fly, a very reasonable post and objective.

  20. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:13 pm

    Fly – I’m going to type this with a decent amount of speed, but you’ll be more than capable of keeping up. You seem like you’re pretty smart.

    I know you are so convinced that no one in this world has any interest in selflessly helping out another person, especially not OW, CB, TM, or any of team for that matter. But i’ve honestly never seen a human severely lacking in trust or faith in another human ever think otherwise. And someone who can’t find anything good about other people and only sees the bad (or assumes bad) would NEVER compromise their integrity, moral courage, values, character, or principles just to make a $.

    I can only tell you this. Currently there are Current and former RT members, TEAM Home Office Employees, etc that are contributing to this world in an attempt to open the eyes of people, shearing truth, and inspiring others to do the same, even if they have to open up the biz plan with the topic of money because that’s what most people care and think about most in this sad world we live in.

    Do you think I’m making up the fact that OW and CB instructed people to make CD packs that inspired, helped and taught people to have better finance principals, spiritual principals, Character and integrity, and many other forms of wisdom? The re-release of LLR as a BOM even though the new people didn’t already have one, and the old people didn’t have any extra to hand out? The re working of the old contract from the amway business, etc. to help spread truth and to help the new guy. I am not making this stuff up, one just couldn’t make it up. OW has a long history of helping those around him for their own gain, and then when he’s done with them he finds someone else. Well now it’s time for OW to taste his own medicine.

    You can make the choices for yourself, however, God will be there to judge you at the end, i am not sure how fond he is of attacking your brothers, the ones he ALSO created out of love… especially if they have helped to convert many of people to his way. Pretty sure Jesus said something like, love your enemies? If you loved him AND he was evil (which he is not) you would try to help him to the right path, what you’re doing is not that.

    Today I truly work to serve God and Mankind, I work from home, I do what I want to. I may not have a million dollars in the bank, but I sleep very well at night.

    Here’s a question, I am going to share a bit of OW and CB vision with you here. To change the world and have a huge positive impact on it be helping people gain better more meaningful lives. They understand not everyone’s God Given purpose is the same but they have found that a lot of people do need money and so to create a biz that builds a large community and spreads the wealth through it, to them, was the best way to fulfill their Vision of helping as many people as possible. If you were to try to change as many peoples lives for the better as possible, how would you go about doing it? and are you doing that right now? I am. Don’t you think you’d get a bit of criticism? Don’t you think you might mess up here and there? I’ve gotten criticism, but that hasn’t stopped me or even effected me for more than a moment. I think the same is true for OW and CB. I think OW and CB are doing a great job, If you wanted to change the world how would YOU do it?

  21. Dorothy permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:26 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:32 pm

    Way to go Will
    Oh is this part of their master “PC” plan; get a bunch of ANONOMOUS bloggers to come on to spread their “Happy” selves to SAVE the world from the “death gargle of the non-achievers?”
    To fix the negative, “nancies?”
    SSDD-seen this one before!
    Ryan is on here because well I’m not sure really? I think he is in dire need of some attention but I could be wrong though, and I think he wants to change the culture here so what the heck let’s talk. I agree with changing culture also.
    Sounds to me like he also thinks he’s “counseling people?”

    Ryan:
    Perhaps Ryan you could share with us what form of degree you have for such vast wisdom?
    Another question for you, Ryan; since you want to talk, anyone can ask you questions, and now that you have your very own little counseling corner,(that I noticed this made you very happy) oh wise one.
    I think this is so special.
    Wait for it…first you have to be 100% HONEST and TRUTHFUL (I cap. those words because I didn’t want to accidently over look them, lol).Please don’t forget them they are very important words and your credibility and integrity depend on it, ok. Because you will be found out, and please don’t twist words since it seems that is one of your “strengths.”

    Questions for Ryan:

    Now, did anyone ask you to come on to Amthrax’s site from the Team to blog on here and if yes, by whom?

    Are you being paid by anyone from the Team to come on here and if yes, by whom?

    How long have you been in or out? You contradict yourself here so I am not sure if you are in or out.

    Which is it in or out?

    Are you on the Team system and if yes, for how long?
    How often do you talk with Orrin?

    Are you personally sponsored by Orrin and are you active?

    Go ahead and take your time, because remember Ryan, the MOST IMPORANT THING IS; yes to answer 100% honestly and truthfully.
    Those are just a few for starters, I think I am going to start liking you and we are going to have some great conversations. I can’t wait to build our relationship.

  23. webelieved permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:36 pm

    Ditto!!!

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:44 pm

    Hi Five~One time fly
    Great questions I wonder if they will get answered?

  25. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 10:09 pm

    Speak, Thanks for your willingness to listen and invest time my friend. =)

    First i must apologize, i have written many comments before yours that have not yet appeared, i am currently being monitored so my posts are quite delayed. With that said i’ll definitely answer your questions. =)

    Degree for wisdom? I don’t exactly understand this question, do colleges give out such degrees? lol maybe who knows!? But i suppose my life and God? I spend a lot of time studying people and myself since 6th grade (i am 21 now). how i work and how the world works. When a problem arises in my life I instantly respond with finding the positives and coming to a solution, and what i have learned from it… It’s just a habit and the way my mind now works. I suppose that’s my best answer for your question.

    No one asked me to come here.
    No ones paying me to be here. lol
    Makes sense, what i have said is a bit confusing. I have been Watching team sense i was 17 (4 years ago) went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway) I have never left team, however i am not on System or Product, but do attend Majors and Seminars. Although i have spent over 6 moths away from both Majors and Seminars before in the past.
    I’ve personally never met Orrin, but i have sat down with Chris and at one point was talking to him on a weekly basis (But this was not for Building Teams) And i am not Active in building team.

    I’m glad you agree with changing cultures. Except for my first post where i said people need to stop slandering other peoples names, both to the people who came here to slander you and to you here who slandered them… i posted it about a man i never even heard of before lol. I originally came here with a caring and compassionate tone. Then people started responding to me harshly, i was still kind and just laughed with them and carried on… eventually though i started to point out they were being pretty destructive and it wasn’t good, that made them angrier and made me look bad. lol So to start over would be nice. =)

  26. aurora permalink
    March 2, 2011 4:20 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  27. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 2, 2011 5:41 am

    OUTSTANDING!!!!! I COULD NOT HAVE SAID IT ALL BETTER MYSELF!

  28. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 2, 2011 5:51 am

    We all are walking a thin line between logic and emotion. We are also all very aware of this fact I’m sure. We need to remember why we are here and do our best to stick to that end. Amthrax does a fantastic job of poking us back on task. Thanks for that. I want our message to reach the current and potential “marks” that are lucky/brave enough to end up here reading our truth. They may have gotten started with the intention of helping people succeed and win in life and business and may feel they are doing so. To some extent they are. Our mission is to reveal that the Team is not as squeeky clean as they like to say they are. The things we say should make people at least say hmmmmm… LETS KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

  29. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    March 2, 2011 6:18 am

    I actually like Ryan because the more he replies, the more we all discuss. Ryan is actually becoming the facilitator that helps me recall things, thus allowing me to reveal more!

  30. webelieved permalink
    March 2, 2011 6:30 am

    I love it fly….. CAN YOU TELL US MORE?????

  31. humiliated permalink
    March 2, 2011 7:47 am

    Good point, I quit . One thing I would like anyone who is reading this to understand is, there are the individual stories about “crimes” within the “crime”, which Ryan is trying to manipulate the public into believing are one offs. I have read too many of these stories to believe this. When someone leads you to believe that you will make a sustained amount of money based on a “contract” and then they take that money without honoring their side of the contract, to me that is a crime. When it is always one person responsible for making that decision, he is the criminal.

    But, let’s not lose sight of the fact that this is a PYRAMID scheme so the likes of Ryan or anyone else can not get on here and tell you how he successfully lives within that scheme (God knows, we do appreciate the f*cked up life lessons junior is trying to teach us…) . It is like telling a murderer telling us that he used a gun instead of a knife, so that is why he got away with the crime. All of his gobbledlygook rantings are merely trying to disguise this one basic concept. He is managing to successfully (cuz I don’t believe for one minute that you are no longer involved Ryan) deceive/victimize people so he is trying to justify it to the world.

    You can not and will not make a sustained income with this pyramid scheme unless you are Orrin Woodward, Dallin Larsin or Brig Hart. The incredibly unsavory, closed door, side deals that are going on add horrible insult to injury. The documented & pre-meditated cult tactics the are rampant through out the TEAM/Monavie “organization” are an added bonus for handing your life over to Orrin Woodward/Dallin Larsen/Brig Hart and their Team of Roaming Bandits.

    Finally, Ryan, NONE of us are whiners,complainers, negative thinkers or losers. We are your biggest nightmare. We are like a neighborhood “watch” group alerting those about a predator in the area and that is our duty as good citizens.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 2, 2011 7:51 am

    One time fly
    So glad you are here to reveal more, this will help many but more importantly to heal and help clear that fog that we all know is extremely dense and the garbage that is stuffed way down and clears the longer you are unplugged from the system. Maybe you didn’t experience this, but I did, holy crap!
    This is part of the cult; thought reform that is cleverly imposed upon all; by their methods. Here is a quote from one of the experts: ” Know one joins a cult, they are recruited!!!!!!!!”

    Aurora
    lmao! “doubt but this is part of the new ‘Power of Positive’ spin campaign”
    Orrin is notorious for this, no matter how grim reality is.

  33. March 2, 2011 1:47 pm

    Seems like the bugger’s ignoring US!!! lol

  34. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 2, 2011 2:50 pm

    Humiliated – I am not trying to manipulate the public or disguise your words or cover up your stories. If you assume such things then there’s no use reading any further.

    People are always going to have to make decisions when they are in charge of a business, the PC together makes those decisions… no body is a criminal. Everyone knows that the income on a weekly notice is going to be different each week depending on sales… Not even Orrin makes the same amount each week. I know there are plenty of people who live wealthy because of TEAM, that doesn’t mean they are going to spend their time writing to you on here. I’m not here to victimize you or anyone, only help. Only YOU can control your mind, your stress, your emotions, and your choices. I am not active in TEAM lol but no matter how many times i say it you don’t believe me.

    I’m not even going to respond beyond this point to your last sentence.

  35. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 2, 2011 2:52 pm

    lol I’m not ignoring. Don’t worry =) My posts are being monitored so they don’t appear until Amthrax lets them.

  36. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 2, 2011 4:31 pm

    Reality really isn’t that grim… unless you perceive it that way i guess. To me reality is amazing and incredible, i think God did an amazing job =) I LOVE life. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same, . =/

  37. humiliated permalink
    March 3, 2011 6:39 am

    Ryan, yes, in fact you are trying to manipulate the public & I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are completely unaware of it. If you ARE aware of it, may God have mercy on your soul.

    You say “I’ve personally never met Orrin, but i have sat down with Chris and at one point was talking to him on a weekly basis (But this was not for Building Teams) And i am not Active in building team.”, then you say ” Not even Orrin makes the same amount each week. “. How would you know this? Did someone tell you this and that is why you believe it?

    Let me also tell you something, you are 21 years old and you think you know it all, that is incredibly egomaniacal behavior. Your relationship with God does NOT make you an expert on ANYTHING and to come here and tell people how to process their emotions or live their lives is incredibly arrogant and immature of you.

    Your last comment “To me reality is amazing and incredible, i think God did an amazing job =) I LOVE life. I’m sorry if you don’t feel the same, . =/”

    is beyond reprehensible. We have told you that these people are mourning, grieving and purging because they have just been through a horrible injustice. They are just starting to see the beauty in life and themselves again and you DARE to throw out that little sound byte & completely minimize and dismiss their pain?

    Ryan, any cult expert would come on here and have a field day with your posts, of this I am convinced. Just because you say you aren’t in TEAM anymore (why don’t you identify yourself, then we could check?) doesn’t mean you are not completely brainwashed. Go seek help immediately. We will be here for you once you are healed. See how that works? YOu are not the only one giving out unsolicited advice. The only difference is that I am qualified to as I have earned that right in life.

  38. aurora permalink
    March 3, 2011 7:22 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 3, 2011 8:32 am

    Ryan
    Let me try this one more time.

    Sounds to me like he also thinks he’s “counseling people?” and now that you have your very own little counseling corner,(that I noticed this made you very happy)

    Ryan says:Degree for wisdom? I don’t exactly understand this question, do colleges give out such degrees?

    I thought you would have picked up on this; by my statements, but obviously you struggle with simple understanding. So let me try and make it simpler for you.

    Do you have a counseling degree?

    Ryan says: Makes sense, what i have said is a bit confusing. I have been Watching team sense i was 17 (4 years ago) went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway) I have been Watching team sense i was 17 however i am not on System or Product, but do attend Majors and Seminars. Although i have spent over 6 moths away from both Majors and Seminars before in the past.

    Let me break this down for you.

    What does this mean; “I have been Watching team sense i was 17”

    Ryan says:went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18”“i have spent over 6 moths away from both Majors and Seminars before in the past.

    Is this the time when you spent your” 6 moths away “between your first seminar at 17 and when you got in at 18”?

    REMEMBER RYAN; THE MOST IMPORANT THING IS; to be 100% HONESTY and TRUTHFUL.

    Ryan says: i have sat down with Chris and at one point was talking to him on a weekly basis (But this was not for Building Teams)

    What exactly did you sit down with Chris on a “weekly basis” for?

    When is the last time you talked to Chris?

  40. I Quit ( and glad I did) permalink
    March 3, 2011 2:47 pm

    BAM. WOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I’m thinking of writing a song…

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 3, 2011 2:56 pm

    Humiliated
    Well done, amazing as a matter of fact!
    BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!(stolen from Will)

  42. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 3, 2011 4:06 pm

    Oh I SEE A counseling degree, that’s much different wording. =P

    Nah, one doesn’t need to spend money and go through a program to be good at counseling or understand it. One doesn’t need a paper to tell them that they are certified for such things. sorry i originally meant 16-17 when i started observing the team. As in watching others do it, talking to them, joining in on meetings etc. The time i took off from all team stuff was somwehere between 19 and 20.

    I said i talked to him on a weekly basis, not sat down with him on a weekly basis. I respectfully decline your question after this if that is okay… It is right to hold ones honor and not say… what is our business is ours. However i can promise you that our reasons and actions were purely on holy ground and purposely with in the sight of God.

    Last time i talked with Chris…

    “Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 13:22:44 -0500
    To: mini_migi_mole@hotmail.com

    Glad things are going well! Let’s stay in touch!

    CB

    On Jan 31, 2011, at 11:16 PM, Ryan Seewald wrote:

    Hey Chris =)

    You guys are Awesome. Don’t worry, I understand fully how just having fun can end up…”

    There ya go =)

  43. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 3, 2011 4:48 pm

    How would you know this? Did someone tell you this and that is why you believe it?

    ummm it’s how the biz works, how the biz model is set up? if you go believing that every little detail anyone ever said in team was a lie then that’s not their fault, they’re not lying to you, you’re just making things up… sorry i don’t mean to insult but that’s just how things are. It all comes down to distrust… i’ve been there before, questioning every word and motive of a single person or thing they own… I’ve been in the rut of complete distrust, But i will tell you, from my own experience and from watching others, it will destroy you… at least it really did a number on me and to everyone I’ve seen thus far.

    Let me tell you Something Humiliated. I am 21 years old and i’ve said many times i don’t know it all, so that’s NOT egomaniacal behavior. The only ones being egomaniacal here are the ones who try to say they are better than me because they are older than 21… and make up false assumptions about who i am and how i think for their own emotional satisfaction. It is not arrogant or immature try to stop an individual or a set of individuals from a cycle of self destruction… but i can see i am getting no where fast. So i’ll just let you have the rest.

    Your emotions and perspectives on life are up to you and only you, whether you are morning or not, whether you have received injustices or not, you are still capable of having a positive outlook on life and reality. I’ve gone through tough times and not blinked an eye about how awesome life still is… stop playing the victim and grow up. You’re older than I am, and you call me immature… I’m sure this post isn’t going to be so hot with you but if you’re just going to throw a pity party then I’m not coming in and supporting you, because that’ll just lead to more pity parties and saying “poor me”. well you know what? saying “poor me” is SELFISH. To let you think you’re right about being upset and whiny for one second would be anti-progressive in nature.

    You guys are so self centered to think that you are better than me, that you can learn nothing from me, that my experience in life is not qualifying by any nature to help anyone. You say I’M a know it all and ALL you guys do is talk about how YOU know it all and how I am wrong. You’re all just a bunch of hypocrites. So straiten up your act or i’m not coming back to answer another single one of your questions. You’re Lucky God gives you infinite chances until your dead… i however do not have the time nor am i willing to help and invest in you any further. You have proven i am not capable of giving you the facts because you put your own walls up, it has nothing to do with me. Whether i was 14, 42, or 96. you wouldn’t give a second thought… because God Knows you don’t want to be wrong about something, God knows you don’t want to accept that maybe a person who believes in TEAM could ever be right about anything… God knows that the only reason you haters are here is because you want emotional satisfaction, has nothing to do with healing or else you’d act totally different given the same circumstances.

    Well good day mates, i’ll be back, if you haven’t changed you attitude then i won’t be responding, because i serve none of you any good unless you’re willing to allow there to BE good.

  44. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 3, 2011 4:57 pm

    There you guys are, a taste of your own medicine… hopefully for my sake and yours that’ll the be last drop in the bottle. I honestly do feel a bit ill in my concision for calling you guys out like that… But such is tough love.

  45. Dorothy permalink
    March 3, 2011 5:42 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  46. March 4, 2011 4:23 am

    Ryan, it seemed to me that you only “dabbled” in TEAM but haven’t gone up the ranks doing serious business. You’ve really only seen the front the leaders put on that only the public would see. These people here are experienced veterans who spent years in serious business, going up the ranks, and seen first hand how things so nasty that only the inner circle can/could see. Are you about to say that what these people went through is invalid because you never were subject to what went on behind closed doors? We aren’t talking about age, we are tolling about EXPERIENCE. Big difference.

  47. March 4, 2011 4:27 am

    Oops, tolling = talking*

  48. aurora permalink
    March 4, 2011 4:46 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  49. humiliated permalink
    March 4, 2011 7:34 am

    Darn tootin’ Aurora. What you said was spot on.

    Ryan you say
    ” So straiten (sic) up your act or i’m not coming back to answer another single one of your questions. You’re Lucky God gives you infinite chances until your dead… i however do not have the time nor am i willing to help and invest in you any further”

    Did you seriously just chastise us? Let’s also make one thing PERFECTLY clear, get the delusional thought out of your head that you are ‘helping’ or ‘investing in us. To us, you are sport, like a cat batting a mouse around between it’s paws, you are nothing more then that poor, pathetic little mouse. Sadly, you imagine your words having some profound effect on us. Also, trust me when I say that I didn’t take you the slightest bit seriously when I didn’t know how old you were. It just made more sense when I found out that you don’t have the life experience. I am just sad for you because you are so young to be so full of b.s..

    Did you also have the unmitigated nerve to say that you have presented FACTS to us? You have not said ONE FACTUAL THING. Please show me one example where you have.

    You also say
    ” God knows you don’t want to accept that maybe a person who believes in TEAM could ever be right about anything… God knows that the only reason you haters are here is because you want emotional satisfaction, has nothing to do with healing or else you’d act totally different given the same circumstances”

    You are the hater Ryan. You came on here not liking the way that your beloved TEAM was being portrayed and you are doing everything you can to stop people from exposing the crimes that are being perpetrated and the criminals involved. You come on here with your clumsy attempts at manipulation and your vile use of religious guilt. You are nothing if not completely transparent.

    Bye bye little mousy.

  50. aurora permalink
    March 4, 2011 9:11 am

    Ohhh, Humiliated, ouch!!

    Poor Ryan could have saved himself so much time and nut-numbing smack-downs had he just not attempted to ‘set us straight.’

    It’s so amazing that these bots keep coming on here to really give it to us; and when we come back with facts and experience, it takes them quite a while to reply. Guess they have to wait to get approval from their ‘life coaches.’

  51. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 4, 2011 9:38 am

    Say it isn’t so! Come back! Please! I’m in desperate need of more wisdom! Ohhh I feel like crying………………..

  52. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:02 am

    Lmao

  53. aurora permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:06 am

    Ryan;

    You promised.

  54. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:19 am

    Naw man, you’ve got it wrong. it has nothing to do with team… i came here noticing the people on this site have been at the same thing with no progress for years. same thing over and over and nothing done. Still hating on people, still at the same exact games, Still with the same attitudes. The only ones the progress are the ones no longer here.

    I came here feeling a little sorry for the fact that you haven’t grown out of it yet, haven’t done anything with your struggles. so i encouraged some to do better, told them to shoot for something rather then spending there time dabbling on the same old same old with still no progress. (physical or mental). TEAM does not support Crimes, you’re delusional… you haven’t presented any facts yourself.
    This is not an argument driven by facts and data, that is proven on this site… it’s an argument of your emotions. You guys presented no facts of these crimes.
    And why, after all, are you so bent on tearing other people down? i thought this was a place of healing.

    and, Ryan Seewald – Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 1, 2011 9:13 pm … read that, all fact. And still no one answers my question in that post. I have stated plenty of facts… just because i haven’t done it in the fashion you wanted to here it, or because it’s something that’s true that you didn’t want to see… doesn’t mean it’s not fact.

  55. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:22 am

    you said something that made sense aurora. No not the “amway fog” no not the life beats on you when you become responsible… it beats on you when you’re in need of change btw… but that “You become alert and start listening to what’s going on around you for how it might affect you.” Well, will you listen? =P we will see ^^ One last chance =)

  56. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:25 am

    Hurray!!!!!!!!!!! He’s back!!!!!!!!!!

  57. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:29 am

    I don’t need to experience it if i have watched others experience it. It is as simple as that honestly. Learn from others experiences. Also following the principals team teaches and shows by example has gotten me far and has help me a lot in life… especially with dealing with problems and taking steps forward in life. Even though i am not helping team, Team members i know still cheer me on… and i cheer them on… that’s the kind of culture I like, so i stick with em.

  58. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:29 am

    Hahahaha you’re awesome.

  59. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:36 am

    If you guys don’t mind, I’d like to get a bit of participation from you all. =)
    I am going to ask a question, i already asked it once but in the manner that i asked it i included some names that don’t fly here very well and might have thrown salt into your wounds.. so here goes.

    If you wanted to change the world (bettering the most lives possible) how would YOU do it? =)

  60. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 10:40 am

    sorry it takes time to get my posts, i was under moderation. but i think he lifted it because my posts are getting through quickly now.

  61. aurora permalink
    March 4, 2011 1:01 pm

    Good grief, jobless wonder! THAT is your qurestion to us? You don’t want help filing out 1099s for all the people you have hired through the year to do all those pesky life-chores for you? You know, for the insult from stage how all you ambot wonders need people with jobs to wait on you.

    We could walk you through filling out your Schedule C – then you can show us your income for 2010. (minus expenses, of course)

    Do you need help getting organized to go do Artistry, Nutrilite, or retail clinics? I still have my notes. Filling out the customer order forms from those clinics?

    Maybe you could use some help creating files for all your amway expenses (expense caagories).

    Let’s see, you are an independent contractor (such a noble sounding title, don’t you think?) so amway provides you NO benefits; so you can deduct so many wonderful things, i.e., gas, mileage, food (travel), hotel, airlines, samples, Artistry kit, subcontractors, dry cleaning, coffee for your prospects, function tickets, car rental……….hmmmmmmm………shall I continue?

    After you have paid for everything (with after tax dollars, I might add) then you figure your income tax on what’s left; and Amway will tell you what a great deal it is. Are you aware you only recover about 25% of your expenses after you write them off? So for every $100 you spend, you recover about $25.00 – that’s if you’re diligent. Awesome return!

    Asking what we would do to change the world is TAPESPEAK – boring, predictable, juvenile, and insulting. Amway has not changed the world except to redistribute money. It’s a giant chain letter on tool steroids.

  62. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 2:06 pm

    LMAO What? xD … I asked what YOU would do to change the world, THAT’S your answer? Amway is sooo expensive and doesn’t help anyone with their finance!! Helping to change the world sounds like something Amway would try to do, so it’s stupid.

    RAWR! AMWAY SAY HELP WORLD! AURORA SAY HELP WORLD BORING! Aurora no help WORLD! >.<

    C'mon you can do better than that buddy, shoot me a real answer. It would be appreciated.

  63. March 4, 2011 2:39 pm

    Ryan, you are only observing what the (active) TEAM members want you to see, as in TEAM, we were supposed to keep our doubts to ourselves & only talk about how GOOD TEAM is. you say you’re on observer, then please observe how TEAMers act & how normal people act.You’ll see a difference in how they act, how they view things on an economic & employment scale,and you’ll also find out how shallow their friendships really are. All their loyalty is TEAM, moreso than friends & family.

    Observe, Ryan, observe.

  64. aurora permalink
    March 4, 2011 3:08 pm

    jobless wonder;

    Here’s your sign: it’s none of your business what I do to change the world. Does amway have the monopoly on world changing? How the hell the did world change before 1963? It didn’t run off a cliff. That’s the constant chant from stage – “Ask them how they (not in am) would change the world.” Brilliant and completely irrelevant to building a business; which, by the way, you don’t need help with any business forms?

    It obvious you don’t intend to answer business questions b/c you don’t even know what these forms are used for. You don’t have a real business.

    O.K., so now I think you’ve been assigned to me.

    Won’t mommy be calling you for dinner soon?

  65. switch permalink
    March 4, 2011 4:33 pm

    My god, it’s like Christmas morning all over again….from the 700+ comments minus Seewald’s “inspirational” last ditch efforts, to his very own corner on the site!

    Unwrapping each lie one by one and he gets to watch it…..

    For starters Seewald, I would start with honesty. Try that, and see if it can get you somewhere in life.

    Enjoying the show gang! Great job!

  66. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 4:41 pm

    Sorry i have to disagree because I’ve personally seen people leave and my fellow team mates are still good friends with them. Yes they are different, they are generally more happy, more outgoing, and more knowledgeable when it comes to people and business. Not that only people on team know things, or you can’t learn them other places, however, that IS something that is noticeable about them. Their views are generally different yes, nothing wrong with that, but their friendships however, are not shallow.

  67. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 5:07 pm

    Who the heck said anything about amway? no it doesn’t have a monopoly on world changing are you kidding me? I asked YOU!! YOU! how you would do such a thing… not if only amway can. lmao ” “Ask them how they (not in am) would change the world.” ” <– i've never heard it.. ridiculous lol. this isn't about amway. i asked you, not in compilation with amway, just you. lmao

    wait… *squints eyes* is your job filling out business forms? lol i mean if that's what you do that's cool, just sounds like you're asking because you want to be the guy that does my paper work or something. you keep bringing it up.

  68. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 5:13 pm

    Honesty? I haven’t been anything but honest. who’s lying? not me. I haven’t said one lie to any of you. If someone calls someone else a liar that isn’t lying… does that make them a liar? or just confused? Name ONE single lie my friend, just one. If you don’t provide one then you just called yourself a liar.

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 5:25 pm

    RYAN, OH RYAN!…. Remember what the MOST IMPORTANT THING was??
    TO BE HONEST AND TRUTHFUL, and that you would be FOUND OUT, and YOUR CREDIBLITY AND INTEGRITY WOULD DEPEND ON IT!

    Ryan says: “I am not active in TEAM lol but no matter how many times i say it you don’t believe me.”
    Ryan says: “You guys have been wondering about the “team going away from products sales” for a while, I’ll tell you the scoop since I’m the one that’s still in and listening in.” They were talking about rather then selling and opening their plans with a bottle of juice, opening it back up with what they used to, a Business opportunity.”
    Ryan says: “Also when we left amway, we used to think that we would, at one point in time, take on more and more financial opportunities through products as we got more and more people.”
    Ryan says:” I have been Watching team sense i was 17 (4 years ago) went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway) I have never left team however i am not on System or Product”

    Ryan says: “Humiliated – I am not trying to manipulate the public or disguise your words or cover up your stories.”

    Weblieved says: “So if I know my pastor is not following the Bible, and cheating on his wife say, he’s been confronted and he won’t stop, I should invite more people to my church because the Deacon is good?????????????????????????????”
    Ryan says: “Well first off, where on earth have you heard orrin or chris are cheating on their wives and where is your proof? that is just absolute ridiculousness.”
    Manipulate:
    to manage or utilize skillfully b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one’s own advantage

    to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one’s purpose :

    Ryan says: “I asked what YOU would do to change the world, THAT’S your answer? Amway is sooo expensive and doesn’t help anyone with their finance!! Helping to change the world sounds like something Amway would try to do, so it’s stupid.”

    Really? Ryan: Changing the world; in your pea brain only has to do with finances?
    Orrin & Chris were in Amway for a decade and a half promising people; “That it was the BEST BUSNIESS, BAR NONE!”(go watch the YouTube)You could make a passive, residual, ongoing, b-type, willable income for the rest of YOUR LIFE!” That they were going to a million people to “help change the world one person at a time”, You, Ryan are the stupid one!

    Ryan says: “It all comes down to distrust.. It is not arrogant or immature try to stop an individual or a set of individuals from a cycle of self destruction… but i can see i am getting no where fast. btw the evil that i speak of is gossip and slandering. also in seeking the destruction of humans (Gods creation, created out of love) and their successes for your own personal and emotional gain. also in Lying in stating that the core has not integrity.”

    You are a Fool, Ryan, you see when a person is a compulsive liar and manipulator they will eventually be FOUND OUT, just like you have been all along! No one here is buying in to your selfish motives or being swayed in the least bit, you are delusional! The only one who believes your lies is YOU! Haven’t you ever heard” THE WORST LIE TO TELL IS THE LIE YOU TELL YOURSELF!” You can’t even be true to yourself, I pity you. You are the one who is self-destructive! It does boil down to TRUST and you are getting nowhere fast, you are exactly right! You are exactly like your lying, manipulative mis-leaders that you worship and are being USED as a pawn; they cannot be trusted either, that’s a no brainer!

    You have solidified every statement on this blog now as truthful, because it is not us who lie, IT IS YOU!
    You BREACHED that with your lies and manipulation (see you own words above)!

    So you need to pack up your lies and manipulative games and go sell them to someone else! If this was my blog you would have been long gone, many posts ago! You Ryan are a liar and a manipulator; YOU have now earned the negative respect, lack of integrity and lack of credibility. You don’t deserve an ounce of “the benefit of the doubt.” You should have listened to those who were trying to tell you the truth! Are you done or do you want more?

    Ryan says: “You can make the choices for yourself, however, God will be there to judge you at the end, i am not sure how fond he is of attacking your brothers, the ones he ALSO created out of love…”

    So Ryan, Eat your own words and Heed to your own warning!

  70. March 4, 2011 5:27 pm

    Ryan, you may be totally honest from your PERSPECTIVE and interactions with team.

    You had a different experience than most everyone else on this blog. Granted there are those that do team and like it and there may be some that eventually quit that leave on good terms. However, by and large people that leave usually realize that they wasted thousands of dollars and thousands of hours away from their kids and spouse due to years of effort in a business that simply does not work.

    Look at the numbers objectively. Sure there are alot of (integrity and character) issues that people are brining to light on this blog (that is a different topic for a different thread), but putting all that aside, lets just look at the numbers of the business. Show me where people are making money outside of the 5 PC members? Can you do that?

    If these leaders want to do nothing but be in the leadership business game and promote their books, tools and tickets like a Tony Robbins or a John Maxwell, then great – more power to them. However, they are attaching that model to an income opportunity that simply does not work. They know it and they are mis-leading thousands of IBOs by DEALING FALSE HOPE.

  71. March 4, 2011 5:46 pm

    Speak Your Truth – First off, AMEN! Great post.

    Ryan says:” I have been Watching team sense i was 17 (4 years ago) went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway) I have never left team however i am not on System or Product”

    I think this speaks volumes. He is young and hoping this is his meal ticket. He needs to buy a lottery ticket instead.

    I hope that you stayed in school Ryan. You will need it in this economy especially in a few years when you realize that your dream of going diamond and becoming a rock star fade as Orrin makes out with all of your tuition money for the past 8 years. Just think, you could have gone to grad school as well!

  72. March 4, 2011 5:56 pm

    Speak Your Truth – SAYS….

    Orrin & Chris were in Amway for a decade and a half promising people; “That it was the BEST BUSNIESS, BAR NONE!”(go watch the YouTube)You could make a passive, residual, ongoing, b-type, willable income for the rest of YOUR LIFE!” That they were going to a million people to “help change the world one person at a time”

    My question is this: Is it not unethical that these guys can get on stage and promote Amway as a good opportunity, sponsor people up to the day that they sue them? All these years they were sponsoring people and signing them up EDIFYING the amway business and leaders and then they decide to bolt. Is that not wrong?

  73. March 4, 2011 5:56 pm

    @Ryan – That is correct, you’ve been taken off the moderation list.

  74. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:08 pm

    Will
    I tried to make the lies stand out with bold letters but it didn’t paste that way.
    Amthrax needs to kick this liar off of here. I’m jacked, and not on the juice! This is what O did with Q, he wanted to set up his lawsuits like a bunch of mosquito’s bitting, so they can create a diversion!
    So now I see is brother Rykle has came, they are WAY outsmarted and outnumbered.
    He must have been overwhelmed with all the LIES he’s been telling and needed some reinforcements! This is just a distraction to try and keep us from helping others, and if they think their lies and fake “I care about people, BS.” will have an impact, they need to go somewhere else!

    IT IS AMAZING AND DISTURBING THAT HE JUST BUT THIS HONESTY BULLSH*T POST UP! WHAT A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  75. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:23 pm

    Ryan says: “I am not active in TEAM lol but no matter how many times i say it you don’t believe me.”
    Ryan says: “You guys have been wondering about the “team going away from products sales” for a while, I’ll tell you the scoop since I’m the one that’s still in and listening in.”

    Right, I’m still in, I’m not active in building teams… that’s not contradiction.

    Ryan says: “Also when we left amway, we used to think that we would, at one point in time, take on more and more financial opportunities through products as we got more and more people.”
    Ryan says:” I have been Watching team sense i was 17 (4 years ago) went to my first seminar at 17, got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway) I have never left team however i am not on System or Product”

    Right, when WE as in TEAM left (i was observing at this point but not in yet because i was only 17 and wasn’t allowed to sign)
    and i got in at 18 which just happened to be when team left amway… still no contradiction.

    Ryan says: “Humiliated – I am not trying to manipulate the public or disguise your words or cover up your stories.”

    Weblieved says: “So if I know my pastor is not following the Bible, and cheating on his wife say, he’s been confronted and he won’t stop, I should invite more people to my church because the Deacon is good?????????????????????????????”
    Ryan says: “Well first off, where on earth have you heard orrin or chris are cheating on their wives and where is your proof? that is just absolute ridiculousness.”
    Manipulate:
    to manage or utilize skillfully b : to control or play upon by artful, unfair, or insidious means especially to one’s own advantage

    to change by artful or unfair means so as to serve one’s purpose :

    Sorry still no manipulation of the sort, if you took it that way then you’re not understanding the sentences… and by that, aren’t you manipulating my words for your own gain? I asked where he heard they cheated on their wives since that was the example he used… that’s not manipulative.. sorry mate. you’re wrong.

    Ryan says: “I asked what YOU would do to change the world, THAT’S your answer? Amway is sooo expensive and doesn’t help anyone with their finance!! Helping to change the world sounds like something Amway would try to do, so it’s stupid.”

    Really? Ryan: Changing the world; in your pea brain only has to do with finances?

    No that’s Auroras point of view obviously, i was responding to him. I asked how he would change the world and he went strictly to finances and amway… then i said that wasn’t an answer and to try again. where did i say i believed finances was what changed the world? or are you being manipulative again? Hypocrite.

    If you read what i said i stated “If you wanted to change the world (bettering the most lives possible) how would YOU do it? =)” I didn’t say finances i said bettering lives. That might be part of their lives but not the whole thing… and no i’m not stupid. you’re being manipulative. Hypocrite

    You are a Fool, Ryan, you see when a person is a compulsive liar and manipulator they will eventually be FOUND OUT, just like you have been all along! No one here is buying in to your selfish motives or being swayed in the least bit, you are delusional! The only one who believes your lies is YOU! Haven’t you ever heard” THE WORST LIE TO TELL IS THE LIE YOU TELL YOURSELF!” You can’t even be true to yourself, I pity you. You are the one who is self-destructive! It does boil down to TRUST and you are getting nowhere fast, you are exactly right! You are exactly like your lying, manipulative mis-leaders that you worship and are being USED as a pawn; they cannot be trusted either, that’s a no brainer!

    i’m sorry what? where did i lie? i think i just proved you wrong so go ahead and try to find some more. good luck, person who calls me selfish yet you’re the one trying to harm me by lies and manipulation.. hypocrite. I admit i’m not perfect, but i did not lie even still, you say i have no credibility because you misinterpreted my words… continuous misinterpretation after explanation is caused by lack of trust… if you still call me a liar then it’s you who can’t trust anyone. Hypocrite.

  76. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:27 pm

    LMAO and THEN you say i’m the one covering things up when none of you have yet STILL not answered my questions, NOR presented any facts of your own, just try to cover up the possiblity of YOU being a liar and faulsly calling ME a liar instead xD LMAO you are so hard core Hypocrite… it’s just aweful

  77. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:33 pm

    RYAN SAYS: “Honesty? I haven’t been anything but honest. who’s lying? not me. I haven’t said one lie to any of you. If someone calls someone else a liar that isn’t lying… does that make them a liar? or just confused? Name ONE single lie my friend, just one. If you don’t provide one then you just called yourself a liar.”
    RYAN YOU ARE A LIAR, YOU WITH YOUR OWN WORDS AND ME BY PROVING IT!
    THIS IS NOT A F-GAME YOU PLAY WITH PEOPLE’S LIVES!
    NOW LEAVE, YOU LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  78. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:44 pm

    you’re right, it does not work, and does waist all that time, but only if you quit… but other than that, and if you actually give it a hard try and don’t stop… well then you’ll have a different view on what you just said… outside the 5 CP? i was about to post quite a few but i think their names are better off this blog since it’s really not a safe place for those excelling in team. Maybe i will answer once the nature of this culture isn’t about destroying mlms and people in mlms.

  79. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:46 pm

    There you go again speak, what’s wrong with you? i thought you were being cool… guess not. I’ve already discerned your thoughts about me lieing… I’m no liar. See for yourself in my responses… And don’t manipulate my words.

  80. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 6:50 pm

    Will… It’s not unethical… if it was unethical then you would be unethical for once saying the MLM you were in was great, helping them by trying to get people in, and then leaving them and slandering their name later… Not unethical, and i thought the lawsuit was ordered against TEAM, not Amway… isn’t that true? the ones that sued where A not T?

  81. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 7:30 pm

    Ryan you say: Also when we left amway. (you and who else?)
    Then you said: got in at 18 (RIGHT after the split in Team and Amway)
    Then you say you got in after the split!
    LIAR!!!!!!!

  82. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 7:40 pm

    Haha, cool. Now i’ve got some haters! alright, see you on the other side mates! Good luck with whatever you decide to do with your lives. I’ve proven my point here, enough for one of you to totally freak out and post everywhere that i’m a Liar. lmao. Well, any of you can read his post in the future and realize that he just manipulates and miss understands. Although he called me manipulative and a liar and so on… kinda hypocritical but, eh whatever. He will be who he chooses to be. Again, good luck on your journeys! =) And as promised before, I shall leave now. I don’t believe I’m doing any of you any good remaining here any longer. If you’re looking for me you can find me at Mini_Migi_Mole@hotmail.com ^^

    God Bless.

    RS

  83. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 7:42 pm

    ay matie, Watched the split (me and my friends = we) then i got in. lol You are just trying NOT to understand, well anyways, see ya mate.

  84. Ryan Seewald - Job Free Musician. permalink
    March 4, 2011 7:44 pm

    We left amway, i wasn’t in it but i was a Part of it because i came to meetings and so on.. since i was under 18 i couldn’t get in officially… understand now?

  85. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 8:15 pm

    You are a such a waste of time, and your right, I will never understand, liars and manipulators, but that’s ok, ay matie, it will be settled in the after life.

  86. March 4, 2011 8:28 pm

    Ryan, first off, you are still a prospect for TEAM. That’s why the TEAMers are still friendly. Though you might be officially “in” you still have get to actively build your team & get into the nitty-gritty stiff.Second of all, I have lost ALL of my ex-TEAM friends. I’m no longer in contact with my ex-uplime.I’ve even lost a friend who joined TEAM after me that I met on a support site for a heath issue. Why? Because she can’t be around people who oppose TEAM.

    Many of as have lost our TEAM friends. What does this tell you?

  87. March 4, 2011 8:35 pm

    I just sat down & read tonight’s party notes. Looks like I didn’t miss too much. To be honest, I’m tired of Ryan. I mean, I’m trying to be reasonable, but nothing’s budging him. So let the bugger learn the hard way.One of these days our words will come back to haunt him.

  88. March 4, 2011 8:38 pm

    Ya, & my email address is ihateorrinwoodwardandryansongsonamthrax@hotmail.com – good luck trying to get ahold of me.

  89. humiliated permalink
    March 4, 2011 8:39 pm

    No fair! I wanted to tell Ryan what I would do to change the world, to better people’s lives! Ryan, I know that you will read this so I will let you know what I am doing to change the world. I am doing something AMAZING! PHENOMENAL! You should get it on the ground floor with me! I am going to go on these awesome websites and warn people about a cult/pyramid scheme called TEAM & Monavie. I am going to save people’s lives because they won’t spend their children’s college funds or their own retirement funds. I am going to help keep their beautiful families together. I am going to help them keep their true friends around them because that is a real community. People who come together organically, not because some con man is telling you about his version of a community whilst stealing all of your money. Doesn’t this sound wonderful? I am feeling so good about “bettering people’s lives”.

    I don’t hate you Ryan. I pity you.

  90. humiliated permalink
    March 4, 2011 8:41 pm

    Ha! That was funny Izzy!

  91. March 4, 2011 8:46 pm

    http://www.facebook.com/people/Ryan-Seewald/100000422208329

    Here is columbine on facebook…

  92. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 8:46 pm

    One last thing, I have some discernment about you brotha, so I guess the after life will be are only real telling truth.
    1 last lie possibly?
    You might get the clue from your March 3 posting, brotha.

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 4, 2011 9:18 pm

    My mistake brotha, the last clue for you:
    March 4 not 3, so as it stands we will leave it for the after life, unless the Almighty has other plans, for my discernment.
    Only then will we know what is TRUTH.
    Agreed.

  94. aurora permalink
    March 5, 2011 9:43 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  95. I Quit ( and glad I did) permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:14 am

    Remember that song I said I was gonna hammer out? Well, heres the refrain.
    (The melody is similar to Motley Crue’s “Girl Don’t Go Away Mad. (Just Go Away)”

    Here it is…

    Ryan- Don’t go away mad. Ryan, Just go away.

    Watcha think? All I need is a youtube vid and I’ll be a star!! (like Ryan)

  96. Dorothy permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:44 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  97. I Quit (and glad I did) #2 permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:44 am

    I have been reading all the posts for days and I want to thank all of you for sharing your stories. It is nice to know that we aren’t alone in our thoughts, feelings and experiences.

    My other half has been doing a great job of telling our story and makes me laugh every day! I truely am blessed!

    The real reason I am posting has to do with Ryan. I have been thinking about one of his posts that he mentioned he was around when Team left Amway and switched to Quixtar. He stated he was 17 at that time and now he is 21. How could this be? Team has been away from Amway for much more than 4 years. Team has been involved with Monavie for almost 4 years and Quixtar before that for approx. 7 years. I am not a math wiz, but the time frame doesn’t add up for me. Comments?

    I want to end by saying that I am so sorry for all on this site that have suffered at the hands of Team. May God be with you all!

  98. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:54 am

    I quit
    You, Aurora and the rest are the best!
    I wonder I quit, if you could team up with the real Ryan and play some music! LOL
    Yea it seems Ry Ry ( I love it, maybe holding on to a little deceptive/lie) that if he had a conscience would be able to share with all of us!

  99. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 5, 2011 10:56 am

    Dorothy
    Way to go, very good advice!

  100. webelieved permalink
    March 5, 2011 8:50 pm

    Did anyone see that on Ryan’s friends list is Rachel Woodward???? Wonder if that is any relation to Orrin Woodward????????????????????????????

  101. March 5, 2011 9:24 pm

    He’s also friends with Christopher James Brady, that’s Chris Brady, Woodward’s sidekick. I looked up Rachel Woodward, don’t think she’s any relation, as I don’t see Orrin or Laurie in her list, or any TEAM bots.

  102. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 6, 2011 7:58 am

    I Quit
    Great Thinking! That is one of many clues!
    This may seem like a just a theory to some. You decide?
    Now if you have some more time and re-read his comments and THINK some more, some of you will figure it out! It never pays to try and deceive, steal, cheat or lie and eventually YOU will be found out, this is inevitable! “Ryan” is a smart guy but should have never underestimated the intelligence or common sense of others. Money may be a tool to help buy your education to expand your intelligence, you could be broke though and have some good common sense which I believe comes from experience so two different things; DOESN’T MATTER, DOESN’T MATTER and I would say you don’t even need a “college degree” for this, something “Ryan” himself, doesn’t even believe is what it is all cracked up to be, or a person would need one to counsel others and least not to all of us.. but keep following along.
    Humiliated, and others were onto him and helped a whole bunch, she is very skilled and believe by her comments, she has EARNED this right and I believe she has it so right about so many things.

    How cleverly and typically depicted the character of “Ryan” is and I would have thought it to be hilarious if had been written for a book to entertain and NOT to deceive or TOY with the lives of others and done to MANIUPLATE to try and clear the “name” and deny and accuse others (another clue)!
    I believe the RIGHT thing to do to hold you’re Integrity, would have just been to be completely be Honest about EVERTHING, if he really believed ALL what he says he believes about his own Teachings and the BIBLE? Need some more soul searching? When will they ever swallow their own Pride come clean and learn this lesson… only God has this answer? Interesting, he never addresses the “contract” or all the other things stated on here as fact but seems to know a whole lot about everything else, but blames others for:
    (“and make up false assumptions about who i am and how i think for their own emotional satisfaction.”)
    He tried real hard to tell us how “Nobel his intentions were,” wasn’t it said; “The Path to Hell is paved with good intentions hmm..?” I do believe you have to have good intentions, back it up with all the other Character traits, something he seems to be lacking in. I don’t believe anyone is perfect, including me. He tried to save himself from the unethical, deceptive practices that people know about and are pouring out on this blog and to try and save us from our self-destructive non important emotions, that we just need to quit having our pity party, etc.
    Only God knows and can reveal the whole truth, unless they decide all these “assumptions” could be proven wrong by bringing to this blog some documents with some cracking open of the Team books, contracts and other things, for all to seec Now be Transparent! Would then his actions be Honorable, Honest, Integrity or Godly??
    I had already had a gut feeling (something I had sort of stopped listening to, not completely though, during the illusion from Hell.) People never give this up, God is Amazing, and this also makes your senses very keen.
    And DISCERNMENT about “Ryan”, but he made one fatal error, with allot of other very subtle ones, which eventually all deceivers and liars do and they will be FOUND OUT!
    There are some things that I have learned about “Ryan” and Orrin, and the rest of the Policy Counsel: they are always trying to stay a few steps ahead of the “game,” they are always trying to “out smart” their” critics” and maliciously try and take people out, and much, much more… we were never critics; for well over a decade it was pure loyalty, our team and all the rest know it. NOW it’s about some of that same loyalty only different; and the whole truth plain and simple.
    By the way just a side note, out of all those that stayed with the Team after we left, only ONE person sent us an apology letter, for the injustice that was done, and we respected that!
    So Iquit and others, do you think it would be possible that you really are a math wiz, LOL!
    Just a theory? I could be right or I could be wrong, you can THINK and decide for yourselves!
    The rest is up to God!

  103. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 6, 2011 8:30 am

    I Quit
    Just one last thing, A little “distrust” can go a long way…………..

  104. aurora permalink
    March 7, 2011 4:18 am

    velizabethwhite;

    You wrote ‘he’s a friend of Christoper Brady,’ and I think you meant to write ‘Christoper Robin.’

  105. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 7, 2011 6:58 am

    aurora
    lmao Ry Ry & Christoper Robin!

  106. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 7, 2011 11:10 am

    looks like Ry Ry is from Grayling MI, and I was told Christoper Robin moved to North Carolina.

  107. webelieved permalink
    March 7, 2011 1:29 pm

    All I can say is i am glad he is gone. He was so insensitive, he took his training well, as feelings and thoughts are disregarded in the culture. Oh the twisting of words, I do not miss that. Oh my, reminds me of some other people I know. We wasted too much time with him. We could be discussing important things. Like how the hell to get on with our lives after a nuclear bomb went off. Or at least that is what it feels like to me. Lets go back over to ex-team comments and talk.

  108. March 7, 2011 2:47 pm

    Christopher Robin did infact move to Raleigh, North Carolina. He moved in Oct/Nov 2010. One of the better days for my community. Good luck with that Raleigh.

  109. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 7, 2011 3:02 pm

    team deception
    Thanks for the confirmation!
    Now maybe Amthrax could help with the rest?

  110. March 7, 2011 3:05 pm

    @webelieved – YUP!

  111. webelieved permalink
    March 7, 2011 6:31 pm

    Here is a free copy of Merchants of Deception, happy reading!

    http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/DOWNLOADBOOK.html Download Merchants of Deception Book free

  112. aurora permalink
    March 16, 2011 12:19 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  113. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 16, 2011 1:19 pm

    aurora
    I am sorry hope I didn’t scare your “Ry Ry the Wonder Zit” off!
    Lmao!!!!!!!!!

  114. March 16, 2011 1:22 pm

    Perhaps it’s the pointed questions I ask him, if TEAM is a reputable business then he wouldn’t have any problem whatsoever with giving us a plausable answer. Avoiding the questions will only block him from becoming really free.

  115. aurora permalink
    March 16, 2011 2:25 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  116. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 16, 2011 3:49 pm

    Izzy
    Yes it is obvious when they dodge the real questions!

    aurora
    I agree, Great Post one of many you both had!
    Maybe he will read your call to come out and play, LOL!

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