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Questions for Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and TEAM

March 17, 2011

A reader posted a comment in which he asks questions directly to Orrin Woodward, Supreme Leader of TEAM. Orrin has his own blog in which he ponders ideas of consequence; he even responds to his followers… err… readers on his blog. Yet, you’ll nary find a negative comment there; this is not because there are no negative comments, it’s because these comments are being moderated.

So readers both supportive and critical of Orrin Woodward and TEAM. Here’s your chance to ask the Supreme TEAM Leader — perhaps the soon to be the Supreme LIFE Leader — your own questions. I won’t guarantee that he’ll ever respond to them, but I will guarantee that I’ll post them here for all to read.

Let’s start with the comment left by Will. The original comment was a bit all over the place, and I’ve emphasized a few of the choice questions below.

If you have something to ask of Orrin Woodward directly (or of the other leaders in TEAM, such as Chris Brady), do so in the comments field below!

Dear Orrin,

Everyone knows Monavie is broken.

The numbers have been in decline for years now. Maybe that is why there has not been an updated income disclosure statement since 2009?

I have a question for you. Maybe a few.


We all know you are looking to start a new business venture called L.I.F.E (Lies Inspiring Feeble Endeavors?). Yet, currently you are on stage promoting Monavie as the financial answer to all of their economic problems and Dallin Larsen as if he is the Messiah (mormon, mind you).

My question is this…

Where is the ethics in this?

I am sure you are promoting L.I.F.E to all of your leaders and counting the days this summer to when you launch your new business.

What about all of the current distributors that you are signing up and telling them to buy loads of product and tools for this business. Are they not wasting their money?

These people will be stuck with worthless tools as they were when you pulled this same TACTIC switching from Amway to Quixtar, Quixtar to Team of Destiny, Team of Destiny to Team and Team to Monavie.


Remember getting on stage in June 2007 and firing the crowd up about Quixtar (yes there were lots of new faces in the crowd that month)?

Remember telling those new faces that QUIXTAR was THEE business and that you were all going to a million people then?

Did you happen to tell those new faces that you were going to SUE Quixtar the next month in August of 2007?

Why not?

Isn’t that ethically wrong?

I feel like you are doing this all over again with Monavie, are you not?

Moving along….

You are the GRAND WIZARD, correct? The business, errr your business, is indeed built around YOU and not a product or company, right? That is after all the only way that your ego could take it, right? I mean, God forbid if someone tells YOU what to do. I mean….that is after all why YOU left Amway is it not? Because you could not stand being told what to do? You did not like their rules? I mean it seems so obvious now. You can make rules for everyone else but yourself. What makes you so special? Did you at least get permission from Chris Brady before suing Amway? I mean…we all know that he is the true brain child behind team. Not only does he have some what better looks than you, and let’s face it…WAY BETTER SPEAKING SKILLS and HUMOR than you, but he also more common sense and smarts than you, doesn’t he?

Back on topic…

Since you are starting a new LIFE training business, is it safe to say that Monavie is a sinking ship? You wouldn’t need to start a new venture if you guys were making money with Monavie, right?

Didn’t you do an in-depth bench marking study back in the winter of 2008 analyzing Monavie? I think you did. This is where you confirmed that Monavie was the best option for team and all distributors who left Amway? Yes, it was. That is really interesting.

You didn’t do a benchmarking study did you? You just looked at who was paying you the most cash to bring your business over to them, right?

Thought so.


Another question that comes to mind…

If you want to start the Life Training scam, why are you waiting till this summer to launch?

Is it possible that you are still paying Dallin Larsen off since he was the one to bankroll your lawsuits with Amway? Isn’t that what happened? People are wondering why Dallin is selling you book ‘Launching a Leadership Revolution,’ so that he can keep the markup profit to help pay down your debt? So, you do owe Dallin Larsen money then? And everyone else in your business that is still building Monavie for a few months until the new LIFE business takes off is staying in just to pay down your debt? Do they know this? Seems like something you should tell your distributors. I would not want to be mis-lead like this. But wait…that is your specialty after all, right? Orrin Woodward the great mis-leader!?

Let’s go back to the lawsuit for a moment.

You were a small little thorn stuck up Amway’s…well, you were a pain anyways. But we all know that you could not afford to play with the REAL big boys in court. Amway would have destroyed you financially. So it is true that Monavie and Dallin was your sugar daddy during the law suits, right? It is starting to make sense now why you are partnered up with Monavie in the first place.

Let’s change topics.

How about Results?

Or your lack of results?

You are lacking results in Monavie, right?

Brigg Hart seems to be the real player and shining star in Monavie. How come you can’t keep up with the big boys?

From what I can tell, Brigg Hart is hitting bigger and better levels and you have stayed the same (or at least been faking it for a few years). We haven’t seen you hit any new levels and all you do is talk about others hitting results.

You went Black Diamond Presidential mumbo jumbo when you came over from Amway, but have you done anything since? All you did was prove that you could hit a level with your pre-established business. Has anyone in your downline gone Diamond organically (i.e – without bringing over numbers from a pre-established business)? Didn’t think so.

So, where are the results? How come Brigg Hart is kicking your butt? Don’t you want to be a BIG BOY and run with the big dogs?

How come you are camping out at black diamond? Are you a CAMPER?

Orrin is a CAMPER!!!! I knew it. Even a MANAGER. That is another good description for you.

Orrin the CAMPING MANAGER!!! haha This is great. And I thought you were going to a million.

Brigg Hart is a trekker and has a WAY BIGGER business. Crazy! I never thought you would be one to settle for less.

So, where are your results? Are you really a black diamond? Maybe you should come out on stage and tell people your true PIN. You are in fact an Emerald, are you not? If so, you should be up front with people and honest. It would not be good to lie and pretend to be something bigger than you are.


Orrin is a pretender.


Prove me wrong.

So, where are your results? Still no results.

Maybe it is because you are only good at scamming people, right? You only have results at scamming people in an MLM. I have heard you tout on stage that you are some financial guru that has lots of extra cash to play in the ‘I’ quadrant and invest money. You brag of being the guy to come to for advice on what to do with your money when others reach your level so that they too can invest their cash in outside businesses….


Name one outside success you have had in your life outside of Team/Monavie?

You can’t can you?

I have heard sooooooooo many FAILURES on your part and investments gone bad. You are the last guy I would trust with my money or ask for advice. You know why? Because I would never ask a CAMPING MANAGER for financial advice. PERIOD! Especially one who lacks the results.

Another topic for discussion.

Show me one person outside of the MLM industry that agrees that you are ranked #7 in the world as a ‘Top Leadership Guru.’

I would love to see who you find that believes this bundle of laughs. More like #7 in the world in Top Ranked ‘CAMPING MANAGERS.’ lol

162 Comments leave one →
  1. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 17, 2011 10:13 am

    I would like to point out to the Team researcher who may be reading right now that obviously “we believed” has posed some very pointed questions. Questions which won’t receive an answer either. I would encourage you to browse around this site and read the many posts from “we believed” as they will reveal a very thorough understanding of the pay structure of this business due to DIRECT INVOLVEMENT. No second hand opinion being thrown around, Just cold, hard FACTS. The Team has done some very unethical things to very successful people within its own ranks, which you’ll read about if you browse the site thoroughly. Is this the type of biz you would like to be part of? Would you like to do all kinds of work for years, establish a lifestyle based on this biz’s income, only to have it stripped away without your consent? Now what?
    Keep reading my friend. Use the info you get here to help your decision making process.

  2. TOD permalink
    March 17, 2011 10:43 am

    I think we should have an ask Chris Brady post. From my limited experience with Team, CB seemed like the real magic to the business as far as teaching and creating the explosion they had back in the glory days. As far as talent and business acumen, no one else at Team could carry his white board.

  3. March 17, 2011 10:55 am

    I’ll change the title of this post so we can combine questions for both of them. They do seem to be joined at the hip.

  4. Rob Thomas permalink
    March 17, 2011 12:31 pm

    webeieved –
    were you in TEAM for a while? are you on CD’s?

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 17, 2011 2:32 pm

    I couldn’t resist, had to revisit your “Dear Orrin” letter.
    Had a great PROTMOTIONAL idea for y’all who want to participate!
    Those who get the most votes for the “Lack of Results~ Camping Manager”
    Wait for it….

    The Winner will get a Brand New Badge and dollar store Towel (you can wave around) and you can show off at all the seminars for LIFE! That says; “I will blindly follow and give my life savings to the “Camping Manager” with the (lack of results emblem down the side) FOREVER!, It is really cool! And You will get to be Recognized under the “Big Lights” and be allowed to speak for 5 minutes, (without holding the microphone, of course)!That’s ok though You will know you are the STAR BADGE & TOWELL HOLDER OF THE YEAR!!!
    How exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Since we are in the business of taking people’s hard earned cash, mysteriously.

    We recommend you find, your new found “voters” at:
    Mental Institutions
    Public Restrooms
    Gas Stations
    Junk Yards
    School Crossing
    Just some suggestions, I know how “Fired-up” you will all be and think of many more places to gather your votes!!

    ** **IMPORTANT****

    (DO NOT deviate, one word from this or you WON’T get the results!)

    Tell them you are voting for the:


    That is the latest cutting edge contacting script there ever was and since we are the ones with the “fastest growing, exploding numbers in the world”, no-one can touch you!

    So here is some more cutting edge knowledge for ya; there will be 4 TYPES of people you will come in contact with for your votes.
    Here they are and what you say to them to get yourself some Guaranteed Votes!

    **“Life of the Party Folks”**: Tell them this voting thing is a PARTY WITH BRIGHT & SHINY LIGHTS, and THEY WILL HAVE A BLAST AT THE VOTING PARTY AND SUPERCALAFRAGALISTICEXPIALADOSHUS!! (Guaranteed votes!!)

    **“Laid-back Folks”** Just tell them to be there, they will get to relax and enjoy! (Guaranteed votes!!)

    **“Born- Leaders”** Tell them there are a lot of leaders that are going to want to kick their butts, and that real leaders get the most votes every time, and if they don’t ; they WILL be shown up by some GIRL who is kicking their butts! May the BEST leader win! (Guaranteed votes!!)

    **“Detailed Folks” **Tell them not only will they get the” Badge & Dollar store Towel/ Prize”, they will be the only selected folks to get to tally up all the votes, with graphs, charts, colored-coated, and get to use calculators, protractors, and other nifty calculating devices ! (Guaranteed votes!!)

    Now All Contestants have 30 days- until the next Seminar-
    GO TEAM GO!!!!!
    The winner must report to Will to collect the prize.

  6. March 17, 2011 4:46 pm

    lol, this is hilarious! I love how you ripped out the Personality Plus and how team will use that to falsely promote the seminars just to try and relate to the personality of the person they are contacting. That was epic!

  7. March 17, 2011 5:15 pm

    Hey, Orrin, why is it that we are encouraged to purchased the Top 50 packs especially when the new ones go out? You guys say it’s the 50 most powerful CDs out there but chances are, we already got most of the CDs in our ever-growing collection that’ll eventually collect so much death – erm, DUST – that we can’t hardly breathe!

    Hey, Orrin, lemme answer that – you just want our flamin’ MONEY!!

  8. Dorothy permalink
    March 17, 2011 6:11 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  9. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 17, 2011 7:21 pm

    Hey Orrin
    I second All of these questions, and the LLR question from Dorothy!
    If this is true then you are even greedier than I can comprehend!
    Because YOU forced that down on BOM and your PROMOTION for cases and cases and cases to rank your book.
    What about the Men’s & Women’s Leadership, that none of the Men or Women ever got paid to speak at. Where did this money go?
    The manipulation of the registration?
    Questions about PROFIT-Sharing that you stole from individuals with no explantion or Contract (copies of) and REFUSED when asked for in writing.
    Since I doubt you will ever tell the truth or give us the contracts, or answer any of these questions on here, then what do you recommend financial guru, where should we go to get these questions answered?
    FTC, Fraud Investigator, IRS, Media, Forbes, Attorney General?
    So many good questions hope we get some answers.

    Please if you have any other suggestions let us all know at your earliest convenience because we would sincerely like to have these questions answered. I am also sure all the other customers would like to know also.

    BTW This forum is the best place to answer because I know you teach Transparency and you would never teach anything that you yourself wouldn’t do, right?

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 17, 2011 10:11 pm

    I wish I had Vogel’s other list of suggestions handy. I will have to look back at the old comments, I would have added those too.

  11. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 18, 2011 4:13 am

    Don’t even get me started on mens leadership! One location- miles and miles away from where you live. Perhaps you are fortunate enough to have a seminar location close by. (Wasn’t that the goal to make numbers easier to build Mr. Orrin?) But the ML meeting is in the opposite direction, the night before. Now I drive across the state to PAY to listen to “up and coming leaders” regurgitate the same info I just read for myself in the BOM or leadership BOM or ERMBOM or latest recommended read from upline. I HATED MENS LEADERSHIP FOR THIS REASON!!! Nothing but the latest boot-licking, ass kissers on stage “teaching”. What are the qualifications to get on that stage O? Can I see the policy please? Oh I’m sorry I forgot, I can’t see that kind of stuff. (Admit it, it don’t exist do it Big O!!)
    Since I have never been, nor will I ever be an ass kisser, my time on the ML stage was VERY sparse. Even though my performance and results were equal to or better than those who were. How do I know Mr. Emporer? Its simple- Some of those yahoos were in my friggin group so I knew their numbers!! I lost faith long before I left Mr. King because of this type of garbage.
    Now Owen (remember that one guys?!!) is saying, “He’s a whiner!” No, just pointing out yet another inconsistency in the “system”.
    I figured if I have to kiss ass to get in front of my group at ML then I guess I stay off the stage cuz I gotta live with myself for a while yet!!
    So ultimately the question is Oh Grand Poobah of the Leadership Developement World, What are the standard qualifications to be on stage at ML?

  12. MLM Punisher permalink
    March 18, 2011 5:00 am

    Just wanted to introduce myself to everybody and say that I’m sure glad I found this blog! I started a blog about my experiences in TEAM in January as a way to deal with the 6 YEARS that I’ll never get back! Webelieved, Speak your truth, I Quit, Will, and others….I’m glad to see that I’m not alone! Awesome posts, and also some much needed laughter! Keep up the good fight! There are many more out there like us….Orrin was right about one thing….the truth is very powerful indeed!

  13. TOD permalink
    March 18, 2011 5:44 am

    I was not a fan of men’s leadership either. I hated driving all the way to downtown Flint and meet at that creepy hotel with all of the stuffed animals. Anyone remember that gem?

    I also resented paying $10 to get in. I was going to the seminar the next day and you could not even throw me a bone? Maybe a bonus meeting? But, Brady and the other leaders would talk about managing numbers and back in the day, there would be 1,500 people or more at men’s leadership and at $10 per person…well, you do the math.

    Manage numbers and lead people. Blood suckers… See blood, suck blood.

    See I Quit, you are getting me all fired up…ahhhh….and repeated old chants….stop it!

  14. TOD permalink
    March 18, 2011 6:30 am

    Was anyone around when Brady and the other went from Team of Destiny to Team?
    I had forgotten how many tools that I had that said TOD that were no longer of use.
    Do you think the Team office swapped those out for new CD’s and books that now said Team? What about for my group?
    This is the kind of nickel and dime greed that absolutely will doom them to failure. This is just one of many examples.
    You can only kick a dog so many times before he will bite your greedy behind.

  15. TOD permalink
    March 18, 2011 6:31 am

    Welcome aboard punisher.

  16. March 18, 2011 6:34 am

    I published a new post on TEAM’s latest “revised” tool. Check it out and leave your comments about the recycling of tools there.

  17. March 18, 2011 6:35 am

    Welcome, MLM Punisher! Been reading your posts; keep ’em coming!

  18. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 18, 2011 7:56 am

    I was there. All those tools were rendered obsolete overnight pretty much. Had to buy replacements that were edited or revised. That PISSED me off ALOT!!! No return policy or exchanges. Just FBOCo. again!!

  19. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 18, 2011 7:57 am

    AMEN! WELCOME!! I’ll hold em, you punish!!HOOWAH!!!!!!!

  20. March 18, 2011 8:14 am

    Punisher – Hello, hello! Can’t wait to hear more about your story. Can you point us a link to your website? Would love to read up on what happened to you. Though I am sure it is very similar to what happened to all of us. SSDD.

  21. March 18, 2011 8:21 am

    Punisher, welcome aboard. I would also like to hear more about your story.

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 18, 2011 8:58 am

    MLM Punisher
    Welcome my friend, as you can see you are not alone!
    I have read your blog very good articles.
    Thanks for having the guts, to speak out!
    Not only is the “truth powerful”, it will set you free!
    Anna Banana another comrade in the truth telling industry, it is a free industry we participate in but reap the most valuable award she is hiliarious and keepin up the good fight too!

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 18, 2011 9:13 am

    With the exception of a few, that the team wouldn’t allow to speak, most others that you would find speaking at a seminar as you well know, most of the seminars if not all, were recorded.
    I know this though that they screened the cd’s that went into production so they controlled the information out.
    How many top 50 recycled cd’s did you buy?
    On Cd’s? Are you serious, have you read the posts?
    I mean no disrespect but that seems too obvious.

  24. March 18, 2011 9:41 am

    Hi, Punisher, I love your nick name! 🙂 Welcome aboard, and what’s the link to your blog? I want to read it.

  25. March 18, 2011 10:25 am

    I love our community of ex-Teamers here on Amthrax and watching the community grow. Doubling our numbers baby!!

    This reminds me a lot of the whole Charlie Sheen train wreck that is buzzing around the country right now. We have front row seats right now watching team implode!!

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 18, 2011 11:28 am

    More questions:
    Orrin all this talk about the new LIFE gig, what is the scheme behind this? Is your master plan to leave MV and if so, are you going to try and raid the downlines again?
    But then you never tell anyone what your real intentions are until after the wake of destruction, do you?
    Raiding the downlines is that what the lawsuit that you lost was about? The very thing your pawns under your dictatorship; said other leaders were doing, taking them out of the team system, when they slander them in their groups, and a whole lot more, which were twisted lies, because I think if they intended to do that they probably just would have. You give yourself way too much credit.
    What about blocking and retrieving other people’s personal Team emails? Wouldn’t this be illegal? What would you do if someone blocked, read and retrieved your emails? Isn’t there something in the news right now about a Michigan Man reading his ex-wife’s emails and maybe facing 6 years in prison?
    Do you think that the sources that know this are very happy about this and wouldn’t tell the truth about it? Hmm…..Best to face the brutal reality there?
    You know you say you take “feed-back”, “you face brutal reality”,” you consider criticism about yourself,” evaluate it , or your claimed implying you coined “PDCA” except this is just another typical plagiarism right? “Your” claimed “PDCA”, the thing you want to take full credit for? This is deceiving when you try and make people believe this was your idea, isn’t it, and is this done for your ego?
    Isn’t this the “Deming Cycle”, the Deming Industrial Production Process- Plan, Do, Check, Act? Oh yeah you changed ACT to Adjust, same thing though, so did you do this so you could try and make it look more believable that you came up with it?
    Isn’t plagiarism the name of your game for everything you say and do? Did you not learn this from Casey Comden that touted that from Amway’s stage that you were a part of for over a decade telling everyone “IT WAS THE BEST BUSINESS, BAR-NONE”, and that people would make a passive residual, ongoing b-type, willable, for the rest of their lives income, that YOU backed out on this promise, making it okay to plagiarize? Oh yes Casey did, and you followed suit. He would say that his whole business was nothing but plagiarism…Thought so.
    So here is some brutal reality for you to face and do “your very own, little plagiarized, PDCA” to apply; it just may help your sinking ship but I doubt it, nothing can be changed on the irreversible damage, destruction, and destitution, you and your pawns have caused too many to count lives that were the builders of what you consider YOUR million people dynasty.
    The recycled tools that your pawn busted out a bunch of hyped up meetings in our groups to get their leaders in the “TOP MEDIA WAR” a week or 2 before you sued Quixtar/Amway. THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LOST and way too many people left to count on this one! And when your pawn was confronted about these thousands of lost $$, they had the flipping audacity to say “They didn’t tell anyone to do this? Flat out heartless, LIARS!” We know they themselves didn’t do it, they just coerced everyone else to go broke, and no they just cashed in on it by getting paid for those promotional meetings! People spent thousands of dollars doing this to have them a week later be stuck with a bunch of worthless information to be thrown in the garbage. How do you seriously live with yourself? You recycle the same ole crap by editing out a few words, because it no longer pertains to the MLM hopping you are doing, right?
    Well there’s one clue why people left in droves.
    Another clue why more left in droves:
    The theft of people’s personals and whole legs with threats and demands that you and your pawns thought it was their right to dictate who got them and where they should go to RANK YOU, Your Pawns and the other” Loyal” ones because you were afraid the builders would quit, isn’t that right? Then you can’t forget your stealing people; profit-sharing, that you even counseled to retire? Was this your plan all along?
    I really thought you and your pawns were much smarter than this, but it really seems they are just good at denying the TRUTH, can’t face the facts, and never had any intentions of “doing the honorable, right thing”?
    Brutal Reality? But then Orrin, you never gave a shit, who would follow and who wouldn’t or who quit, it was all about the MONEY that only you and the select few gained, you had a goal, right? Yet you know damn well why all these leaders left and they are still lied about, but yet you and your pawns have the audacity to coerce those who stayed with slander behind the backs of those who left with a bunch of twisted lies, is this what you call “Leading People to the Truth”?
    Lastly, your blog post about the “right thing to do” and the “honorable thing” is it making sense now why your words are worthless slurs. That, there may be a much deeper root problem here and that you and others need to PDCA and face the “brutal reality” on? This would take a miracle for you to reverse all the lies that have been told and the lives you have damaged, but in the end we know justice will be served. The Good Lord knows and see’s all, you do believe this, don’t you?
    Good luck with trying to redeem yourselves; after all this. I have one request quit lying to people that you are bettering their financial futures with your new scam, old scam, or whatever scam you can dream up. At least give people all the facts without the twisted lies. Just a suggestion, I know none of you will do.

  27. March 18, 2011 12:28 pm

    wow, can I get a BGTD?!?! (Boom Goes the Dynamite) 😉

  28. March 18, 2011 12:50 pm

    Hi all, while I am sure Orrin will respond to some of the questions above in one form or another – perhaps through a CD – I CAN speak about 2 issues.

    One pertains to why there is no Income Disclosure Statement from MonaVie since 2009.

    The FACTS of the matter is that MonaVie gave everybody FREE membership then. It HURT them badly here in Asia. Every crooked distributor took the opportunity to either sign up other people’s EXISTING downlines or people without their permission. Some even without their knowledge. Many others signed up “Toshiba”, “Sony” and “Chrysler” – ie. FAKE names. You now get an idea of the CHAOS that took place.

    Hence, this affected the integrity of ANY Income Disclosure Statement that can be produced from this period of time.

    This led to the current “tree trimming” where MonaVie is removing all invalid accounts, as many as they can find.

    It is my humble opinion that there will be a fresh IDS after 2011 after all the dust has settled from the Clean-Up.

    As for Orrin’s rank, REST ASSURED that he makes more than US$70,000 in a week. I am not at liberty to reveal my sources, but those of you who know me through my writings know that I strive to be level-headed, objective and truthful. In this I do not lie.

    Just my two cents to an exciting thread!

  29. March 18, 2011 1:05 pm

    How much is Brig Hart making?

    Also, are you in agreement that Brig Hart seems to be hitting bigger levels than Orrin and Orrin is staying put?

  30. March 18, 2011 1:15 pm

    Why do you think Orrin and Chris are content with being CAMPERS? Aren’t they wanting to go to a million people?

  31. TOD permalink
    March 18, 2011 1:33 pm

    That makes sense on the IDS, Rykel. I personally think the IDS is a misleading anyway and MV is better off without it.

    Back to my main beef with all of this, income alone is a deceptive way to promote a business. I can make whatever income in MV that I want as long as I purchase whatever it takes to hit a level. Profit is what matters and the only drum that I am going to bang is the drum of profit.

    All I want people to look at is how much are you keeping? Please, just face the brutal facts that if you spend more than you make for more than 2-5 years, then you need to check yourself.

  32. MLM Punisher permalink
    March 18, 2011 1:34 pm

    LOL! Love BGTD! By the way for those who were asking, my blog is located at
    I also noticed that Amthrax has posted a link under his Critic’s section and also on the around the web section (Thanks Amthrax!).

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 18, 2011 6:10 pm

    Are you implying that because of the “FREE membership”, that this is why “every crooked distributor” registered people unethically and stole from others existing downlines with and without their permission and using FAKE names?

    This makes no sense at all, that is what it sounds like you are saying?
    Could you clarify?

    Because the registration from Quixtar/Amway to Monavie happened BEFORE the “FREE membership”?

    The “FREE membership may have something to do with the income disclosure statement as you suggest but would not as you say, have anything to do with the CHAOS and unethics of the registration.

    So could you clarify what you really mean? Because it seems you are blaming Monavie for all of it.

    Monavie gave the “FREE membership” because of the bad economy/”hard times”.

    I am sure you are right about Orrin answering questions through a CD.

    We know him well enough, that is how he would answer all these questions, then do you think he would expect people to PAY or get on system for that CD, to get their questions answered?

  34. Dorothy permalink
    March 18, 2011 7:05 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  35. Dorothy permalink
    March 18, 2011 7:14 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  36. switch permalink
    March 19, 2011 5:43 am

    I was wondering what that cd was going to be called….HONESTY? ORRIN TELLS ALL?

    Nothing like paying for a lie.

  37. switch permalink
    March 19, 2011 6:26 am

    Just for kicks, maybe I’ll wait to get that cd off Ebay. You should check it out sometime, I’m almost positive you’d find a better deal there than going through “system”.

  38. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 6:38 am

    He’s too much of a coward and couldn’t manipulate anything to come to this or any open forum to answer questions. He has to put it on a Cd because he’s to greedy and full of himself, he thinks people have to pay for his worthless slurs & lies.
    Guess we will have to find others ways to get the Whole Truth!

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 6:39 am

    Let us know, Lmao!

  40. switch permalink
    March 19, 2011 7:11 am

    If Rykel were my upline, I would love to give him/her that “electric dog collar” Orrin used to reference when getting that innocent prospect.

    Oh! There’s one! ****~ZAP!~****

    Oh! And another! ****~ZAP!~****

    Hot damn! And ANOTHER! ****~ZAP!~****

    SHIT! ANOTHER! I’m ON FIRE! ****~ZAP!~****

    (I was just shittin’ ya Rykel…I never had any on the line….that ZAP button sure is fun to push though!)

  41. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 8:06 am

    I found this blog and found the videos on here hilarious.

    Check out the guys eating the pineapple boats and using the same tired rhetoric. There are plenty of seats, you need to be here next year, blah blah blah. Btw, if I am not mistaken, this is a MV trip so my gut tells me there is not going to be a next year. At least not with MV. This is purely speculation.

    The creepiest, cult-i-est video is the one where they are creating a current in the pool.

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 8:49 am

    What about blocking and retrieving other people’s personal Team emails? Wouldn’t this be illegal? What would you do if someone blocked, read and retrieved your emails? Isn’t there something in the news right now about a Michigan Man reading his ex-wife’s emails and maybe facing 6 years in prison?

    I have to add a few more FACTS to this comment.
    After You Orrin/Team retrieved this private, personal emails and yes I believe this is illegal, immediately you passed it along and plenty of copies were made to hand out in these secret meetings to “show” everyone what they thought was their lottery ticket to destroy people. Was there any calls to see if it was a “joke” or the truth or purhaps an explantion of anything? NO!
    They were told people were raiding downlines,deserted their teams, Quit & going to a new MLM, because people didn’t care about their Teams? Prove it!
    That is the Biggest effin lies and the lowest you can stoop, and everyone knows it that worked with these people, even you know this, and yep NO phone calls!Prove it. Only BOLD-FACED LIES!

    Orrin, Do you think other people don’t or won’t tell the truth?

    Oh many were told there were calls made about this and it was spread throughout many people, as it was the truth, which alot know it was a BOLD-FACED LIE wasn’t it Orrin? And it was admitted!
    So why do you people lie so much? What topic of your teachings does this fall into?
    Do you think this may cause some righteous anger, if it happend to you of course?
    “The You can Trust us, The right thing to do, Honorable, Honesty, Integrity, Humble, GODLY Men,Sincere, I Care About You, I love ya man, I believe in ya buddy, These leaders are the same off stage as they are on stage, wouldn’t never do anything unethical,..?”Worthless slurs.

    For the life of us, something this just doesn’t add up here?

    I find it ironic it is a Michigan Man that is in the news over the last week that has done this very thing, getting into his exwife’s private emails, with possibly facing 6 years in prison?
    I will be curious to see how it turns out?

    Do you think under oath people would tell the truth or lie that claim they are Honest and Godly?

    Another question a little off topic but not really, since YOU said You only used YOUR money for the lawsuits? I believe it was mentioned in the ” “Pyramid”Forbes article about you, also but something doesn’t add up there either? When leaders earned profit-sharing with no change in their numbers for a long while, their money was taken from thousands per month to $500 or less?
    Did you just dictate who and how much people were suppose to get paid or is this a question for Rob? He didn’t seem to know anything about how others profit-sharing legs just disappeared.
    Would the Team because of your Profit-Sharing then be consider a ‘pyramid scheme’ since there are no outside sales,we all know that doesn’t work (selling to outside the team), only people passing money up,’changing hands’ to the ‘profit-sharers?

    Orrin, Remember the Go-Diamond weekend when you flashed up on the overhead to entice with the pay everyone was suppose to get at the different turbo levels, then you didn’t HOLD to that promise either, did you? This was also done before anyone knew you were suing, as a matter of fact you never told anyone your plan’s of to suing, that you had been planning for how long? You just kept telling everyone to keep building and that Quixtar was happy with our growth, and keep putting people in your ‘system’ and buying your junk CD’s to keep YOUR pockets lined, that you knew were going to be obsolete, and you say you want people to Win and make money with your scam? Hence the meetings for the “TOP MEDIA WARRIOR” right before you your blasted numerous law suits?
    Could you answer that one, honestly without the spin, just the facts?
    Go-Diamond’s another place we signed the ‘contract’ that you refuse to give?

    So Orrin where is everyone’s money and contracts???
    None of these questions from all on here will take a parable to explain either. Just some straight up facts.
    How can people hold you to your ‘word’ if you keep things secret and hidden and expect others to just believe and repeat what you say?
    Is this what you do when you are looking for facts?
    How can people believe you if you aren’t willing to show the hard copy facts and believe your motives are nothing but honest and pure?
    You say your word is your worth, right do you still believe this or have you changed your mind?

  43. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 8:58 am

    What kind of company doesn’t let you have a copy of a document that you signed? That is messed up. Can they do that?

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 9:08 am

    An illegimate one that has alot of secrets!

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 9:12 am

    Oh yes the pictures, they were pissed and remember the LOYALTY TALK form Tim Marks, boy did he lay it on heavy there!

  46. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 9:45 am

    How do people know how much they are getting paid then?

  47. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 9:46 am

    What are the qualifications to get paid by Team? Is that in writing anywhere?

  48. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 10:09 am

    So what are the qualifications and when do you find out?

  49. Dorothy permalink
    March 19, 2011 10:54 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  50. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 1:57 pm

    Hazing? Good one. The potential qualifier gets blind folded and thrown into the trunk of a yellow H2 and driving to a remote location and forced to drink those nasty monavie energy drinks until he/she throws up and then gets paddled with a top 50 screaming “thank you sir, may I have another?!?” Only to be greeted with a reply of “no, but you may BUY another”….WHACK!

  51. TOD permalink
    March 19, 2011 1:59 pm

    Actually, when I first read your post I thought it said tazing.


    I guess being tazered affects the central nervous system and renders the person paralyzed for short period of time. Kinda like being on system…

  52. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 2:08 pm

    webelieved & TOD
    OMG I can’t stop laughing!
    @Dorothy tell us what are their secrets?
    How do you get to be a SUPER DUPED, I mean duper team player?
    Do you take an oath or something or just be tazered as TOD says, I think he is on to something!

  53. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 3:36 pm

    American Greed! Maybe he could get one of his followers, you know the up and comer to layout the red carpet, open doors, drive him there and carry the white board for him, then he would feel right at home! LOL

  54. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 3:50 pm

    Yep Mens/womens leadership, just another book report you had to drive around the world to get to and pay $10, plus eat out, and the speakers never got paid, and if you were a speaker they dictated your topic for you, it was hiliarious, I know some didn’t follow it, LOL! You could tell people were bored to tears they would be texting during people speaking, LOL!
    What about the speaking guide-lines you had to fill out and send in to the office, oh and the talk Brady did at yet another Go-Diamond on “how to speak”, don’t pick up your glass of water, don’t say um,LOL. I remember 1 policy counsel that had to have said um a hundred times, LOL!
    Control, Control, Control. I always thought the best speakers were the ones who spoke from the heart anyway, but oh no they didn’t want you saying anything that might be too truthful or give any ‘secrets’ away, there weren’t any, they even had people fooled into believing they came up with team approach, is that why they had a screening of CD’s? What a joke!

  55. March 19, 2011 7:35 pm

    If your Orrin wants to publish a CD regarding our questions, I think we should be entitled a free copy, after all, we are the one asking questions, right???

  56. March 19, 2011 7:36 pm

    Thank you 🙂 Actually I have been to your blog before, I just plumb forgot! Oh dear! *blush* Anyway, keep updating!

  57. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 7:41 pm

    I love that quote. I used to think the Marks were the most honest of the bunch myself. I really liked them but I believe those that know what went on and I believe they do, and stayed then they are no different and in my oppinion they have made their choice. He acts like he will take a bullet for Orrin just my oppinion.I agree I think there is more to the 32 month Diamond, those that built the business has to know there is more to that story that wasn’t shared. I wonder if it had to do with that Infomercial that they were a part of. Real Estate infomercial business, what little I heard about it it sounded real shady. You are either with Orrin or against him so I have come to my own conclusions. It is too bad really.

  58. March 19, 2011 7:43 pm

    I think that’s illegal. EVERYONE has the right to read before they sign, even the government encourages you to read before you sign. I know, my welfare worker literally read out loud everything that was on some piece of paper I had to sign before he let me sign it.

  59. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 19, 2011 7:44 pm

    I love the zap, holy crap! I still want to know how you get to the SUPER DEE DUPED teamer, oh that’s right we already are, LOL! I guess you could say we earned that title, it sucks!

  60. March 19, 2011 7:49 pm

    Okay, wait a minute, isn’t it law that a business has to provide an income disclosure statement, and documentation of its finances to the gov’t especially for income tax purposes?

  61. stayed in $$$ too long. permalink
    March 20, 2011 9:59 am

    Does the statement “We have something big to announce at the next big meeting, you don’t want to miss it.” ring a bell? How about, “We are working on something that is bigger than Walmart pricing”

    We went to many, many seminars, majors, opens, because we thought the big announcement was coming, but it was always the same old thing, “It’s coming!” “Build your teams, buy the book, do you have enough CD’s?, and don’t forget to buy your tickets early, it will be a full house!”

    Now, that we are broke, and our friends are broke and run when we come around, WE are finally done with TEAM. But, we did get something out of the group, some really great friends and that is a blessing for us.

  62. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 10:00 am

    I can’t not stop laughing, you really should be a comedian, well maybe you are! I guess going through the illusion from hell, there was something to gain after all, some entertainment!

  63. March 20, 2011 10:18 am

    Welcome to the discussion. The next major function is always going to be the biggest and most life-changing event. It’s a time-honored tradition of many Systems, including TEAM, WWDB, and R3Global. They have to continually and artificially pump their distributors up to maintain momentum in the business. This ensures a constant flow of tools and ticket sales right back to the System leaders.

    Looking forward to more comments from you in the future.

  64. March 20, 2011 11:24 am

    I agree that it is a SHAME that the WALMART of the internet never came. All the hype and hysteria was just a way to keep people sucked into the system a little bit longer. However, now that I am out of the business completely and I have removed myself from system (aka…brainwashing), I can see that I would not want to be in business with these types of people anyways. The lies, slander, hurt and pain that they have caused to thousands has only made me realize that I made the right decision by leaving.

    If they created the so-called walmart of the internet tomorrow, I would not go back. I want nothing to do with that group of mis-leaders, PERIOD. It is not about the money or the fact that they didn’t create a better business. For me it is how they lie and manipulate to keep people engaged in their profit scheme. That is the real shame. Besides, lets face it…the walmart of the internet will never happen. If you offered prices lower than walmart, there would be ZERO dollars left to pay distributors. The only way they can make money in Amway or Monavie is by increasing the price of the products so that both the corporate office (Amway in Ada, MI and Monavie in Utah) can make their profit and have enough money left over to pay the kingpins. This is why Amway sells toilet paper for 5x the cost that you can get it at Walmart and Monavie sells a bottle of juice for $40 when you can buy some Acai at walmart for $4.00

  65. March 20, 2011 1:50 pm

    Hi, Stayed, and welcome to the gang. It’s not surprising that your friends run when you come around, TEAM does a darned good job at destroying relationships. It’s not fair. As for me, I never had the chance to recruit anyone, and I actually apologised to everyone that I’ve tried to recruit and told them the real nature of the TEAM scam, and some of them actually thanked me for apologising. But I know that I’m not contact with one single TEAM member for the simple reason that I’m outspoken against TEaM and telling them my personal observations/experiences.

    I’m really sorry to hear that you’ve lost your friends even though you have left as well. I really hope and pray that friendships can be mended in due time. I know there’s a lot of raw emotions (as there is in leaving any cult). Hang in there, mate, you defintiealy did the right thing by leaving.

  66. March 20, 2011 1:54 pm

    Oh, and a comment about the Walmart of the Internet – well, the Internet itself ***IS*** a virtual walmart in itself. Lots of sites offering deals, and even freebies!! :-p Good answer to tell a Teambot!!

  67. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 2:12 pm

    Glad you are here Stayed in, sorry about your friendships but you are not alone. And I do agree spending years inside of people’s home making friends was definitely the blessing, and the true friends we still have! Your statements are mocked by all in the team and thanks for sharing.

  68. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 20, 2011 6:37 pm

    I am 100% with you. I will never get involved with another MLM again the best thing and even though it was diffi”cult” we know what the true character is of the PC and their Life Team and how to detect a con. I will say I have been contacted by another “opprotunity” and layed it out right on the phone how deceptive their practices of contacting were, it was almost identical, the guy didn’t know what to say! LOL

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 7:27 am

    What about Mansee Fotu? (sp?)

  70. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:33 am

    Lmao! You should send that in as the new contracting script! At least it would be a hell of a lot closer to the truth and what the deceptive mis-leaders do now!

  71. Major Dave Stoner permalink
    March 21, 2011 3:00 pm

    Hey Orrin, can I get the five years of my life back I gave to you trying to fill your pockets? How about the thousands of $$$ I gave to Quixtar(Amway) and Mona Vie? How about helping me rebuild friendships that TEAM help destroy? How about money from functions and tools I had to have to build my business? I figure that you owe me at least $10,000. That may not be as much as you’ve taken from everyone else but its a damn good start. Just out of curiosity, has anyone else ever noticed when George and Jill Guzzardo spoke there was usually a heckler in the audience? My friend and I were joking about that. It seemed it only happened when they spoke. We assumed a person was planted or paid to heckle. How do I find out where the next open meetings in Central Wisconsin are?

  72. Major Dave Stoner permalink
    March 21, 2011 3:04 pm

    Pat and Paula Edwards left TEAM? I heard they were told to move from Crandon,WI to Oshkosh,WI. He was another phony just like Eric Blumdahl and Bob Rasmussen. Screw’em all!!!!!

  73. switch permalink
    March 21, 2011 7:43 pm

    OK Rykel,
    On a serious note, I sure hope these clips find you well. Sit back, enjoy the show. Part 1, and Part 2.

    Is this, or is this not where your leader came from and at one time spoke very highly of this company on stage????

    Same, identical concept isn’t it???

    People sleep deprived, emotions running high all because of the almight dollar? Sleeping outside to hopefully not miss that next “nugget/advice” to hopefully make your biz “explode” or help you along?

    Has to start with a dream right? Sound familiar?

    What exactly do you tell the new person who comes acrossed these clips when starting the biz? It’s all a bunch of lies???

    Now fronting an over priced fruit juice to pass “inspirational tools”?

    Would you have taken the bait if I told you about an opportunity called Royal Tongan Limu at the time that had the same illegal health claims/testimonies behind it? Same thing isn’t it?

    If someone leaves the biz, I suppose you agree with driving by in a fancy mercedez,(like they did to me) showing them what they’re missing out on supposedly?

    Hey, it’s what you speak so highly of on here so why not right?

  74. switch permalink
    March 21, 2011 7:52 pm

    Sometimes you get “tid bits” of information on tv that are all not too bad eh?

    Matter of fact, it could save you thousands.

  75. switch permalink
    March 22, 2011 3:41 am

    ….ironic they tell you to cut out your cable t.v. isn’t it? All because they want you to invest in the tools….. correct?

    What exactly are the “dirty little secrets” here?

  76. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 8:24 am

    You have no idea how sorry I am. Everyone could use 10,000 right now, that is alot of green backs. Don’t give up hope, you never know what the Almighty has in store. There will be something good come out of this, but right now I know, it is like finding a needle in a haystack!
    For everyone that is raked through the coals, that would be every single person in my opinion, have been damaged in one way or another, it really is sad that some don’t have a conscience. I don’t know if you read John Maxwell’s book on “Business Ethics” and or what you believe. But like all con’s; the truth comes out and it catches up. I believe it will come back 100 fold, you can not cheat, steal, and lie and call it a misunderstanding or error, or you don’t or we don’t have all the facts~Bullshit.
    It has been done deliberate, calculated, and systematiclly to all, it is a broken business ‘system’ and they know it, but continue to act like it is a money making, dream realizing machine, that is NOT my experience nor do I believe anyone else will realize their dreams, it is false hope!
    My faith tells me they won’t get away with it!
    The planted person, LOL
    I just read a quote that goes: “It takes a con to take out a con!” and another truth~”You can’t con a con!”
    Unfortunately, that is what we were, even though we couldn’t see this clearly, and that is why I am sorry.

  77. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 8:30 am

    I don’t know if anyone is sure about the Edwards, I don’t believe they are speaking, Eric B. and Bob R. are still speaking according to their calendar at least the last time I checked. It really doesn’t matter all those people will eventually wake up to the destruction!

  78. March 22, 2011 11:29 am

    @webelieved: I sympathise with all that you have gone through, and trust that you are telling us all the truth… however, it is always said, “There are no losers in TEAM, only quitters,” and reading from your post, I think the MAIN reason why you quit, was that your Team income was taken from you. Now, obviously, I do not know why or what or how it happened, but could you please provide us with some information that led to your termination from TEAM income?

    Did you argue with TEAM PC/RT about the importance of selling juice vs. system and then joined LBG? Or something along that line?

    Thanks for writing and hopefully I can either hear the truth about TEAM, or help you back into the TEAM. Or at least, feel less emotionally disturbed about the TEAM. Of course, all things will happen in FAIRNESS.

  79. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 2:06 pm

    I still have that shiny badge and dollar store towel, for who ever wants a keepsake for their scrap book, might even have some of those protractors and the other nifty calculating devices, and spread sheets too; left, who knows! I tend to keep all that stuff, especially the spread sheets! LOL
    Must be very lonely fighting a losing battle all by yourself where the only deafing sound is Cha-Ching! LOL
    I will be running along now to more important things like the study of the FTC laws and guidelines and talking to others that have a clue with some ethics!
    See ya over there, webelieved!

  80. switch permalink
    March 22, 2011 8:11 pm

    For god sakes Rykel, keep the other groups out of this.

    LOOK AT THE PROBLEM AT HAND!!!!! This is a prime example of what you guys do best. You just brush it aside and point the fingers at other people.

    After thousands of comments, and high level pins coming forward, when are you going to wake up and realize this business hasn’t been all sunshine and rainbows?

  81. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 9:14 pm

    This is quite a list of damages!
    I could put a check mark by most if not all of them. This could be used as Vogel says; a part of a victim impact statement. Well done. It sure is quite the opposite of what they tell you when the STP to you, isn’t it!
    This is crazy! It doesn’t sound like the L.I.F.E changing agents showed up in your life or mine!!!

    Then you have Rykel tell you he THINKS the main reason you quit was because the Team took your money? LOL
    Then he says he doesn’t know why, what, or how it happened, then in the next breath he tells you how it happened, by you arguing with PC/RT about juice vs. system, then you joined LBG!
    This is flipping histerical! Is he trying to convince you that you had a different experience?

    OKay for this kind of logic he gets the**** Shiny Badge and Dollar Store Towel, ****Yes he is the Winner!!!!

  82. March 23, 2011 9:03 am

    I am trying to point out the EVIDENCE on the table. Other than hard, solid, cold evidence, everything else is just subjective perception. And it seems like the taking away of the Team money was a catalyst, if it is not THE reason for the souring of loyalties. My question is WHY the Team income was taken away from webelieved, and until now, I still have NOT heard either side of the story! Not even the story from webelieved!

    Unless you are accusing Team leaders of waking up one fine morning and SUDDENLY went insane and said, “Hey, let’s just terminate that fella!”

    We Chinese are smarter than that. There is no smoke without fire.

  83. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 23, 2011 9:48 am

    Do you seriously think someone would show you their hard, solid, cold evidence, wouldn’t the Chinese be smarter than this? Don’t think there would be any smoke there!
    The waking up one morning and suddenly going insane, I will think on this..
    I don’t know how SUDDENLY they woke up to being GREEDY,UNETHICAL THIEVES either, I guess that would be a great question for your twin.
    But you could discuss this with your twin about the Master Plan with the registration into MV(probably 2000 comments on here, you could start there, might give you a clue) and why they won’t provide the CONTRACT.
    Don’t worry about bringing back the twisted lies on that one, we already know, with our hard, cold evidence!

  84. March 23, 2011 10:36 am


    You seem pretty positive about this business. Can you publish your cold, hard facts (bookkeeping perhaps) what you have earned these last years, what it did cost you, how may hours you had to work for this, AND what you have to pay to these people ? With other words what is your net income over the years you worked for these people.

    By the way, before you demand “hard facts” from someone else I would like to see your facts about making a living in this business. I googled around and I have not seen these figures yet.

    And the companies silly mind game with the expression “There are no losers in TEAM, only quitters,” I am wondering who is better of: the quitter or the “no loser in TEAM”, I will opt for the quitter. Someone is then at least certain that he or she is no loser in the “real world” .

    So please tell, no show me, what your gross and net income is as a participant of TEAM.

  85. switch permalink
    March 23, 2011 12:11 pm

    crickets chirping*****

  86. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 23, 2011 1:24 pm

    QUITTING IS THE WAY TO GO BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check out the name it says it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FREEDOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  87. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 23, 2011 2:55 pm

    They can be kinda of special can’t they!
    I remember Orrin being jacked about that and had a HUGE problem with Bo-short, then when he tried suing Q/A miraculously added Bo, Eric Shreibler and other’s in an article I read, like he’s been buddies with them all along! Some already knew what he thought of them, hypocrite?
    He USES people for his benefit, PERIOD! He needs an army of fall-guys! One of his famous quotes is; “Keep your friends close and your enemies CLOSER!” Must be from all the war books he reads, like the 48 laws of power? This should give the cult experts a look on the inside. He would have groups of people that EARNED their way to his houses, used as ‘a goal’, we never once saw a cd lying around, only books. Now, I could give him the benefit of the doubt here but I think he even knew it wasn’t worth paying for the same information he had just heard at the seminar. Everyone knows if you are a builder there was no way of hiding all the cd’s in your cars, houses, and everything else you owned. So the conclusion; only for everyone else to go broke, and him to get rich off of.
    Why does Orrin & Co. continue to try and sue others, multiply lawsuits against Amway/Quixtar, critics like Scott Larsen, because his belief is the ends justifies the means. Why else would he do this especially when he claims he uses his ex-mentor and Pastor’s ‘conflict resolution’? We already know he said he tried that with Q, but they just didn’t want to choose his highway! I already pointed out what that means to him, NO SUCH THING, his way or the highway (from experience)! Then he blogs on it like he uses it, this is seriously mindboggling and still has me thinking about Orinkyle’s (Orrin +Rykel) question on waking up one fine morning and being insane? Funny, how he avoids your tid-bit questions.
    I say Orrin, Go read the Book of James.

  88. John permalink
    March 23, 2011 3:26 pm

    Dear We Believed,
    I read your 26 regrets that you shared since leaving Team. Your honesty, insight, and true grief touched my heart. You have spoken truth that all of us who have left Team feel deep inside. You were able to list the things we all feel. You and people like you are the true heroes in this tragic story. The people like Rykel (whoever they may be) are beyond hope. I pity them. It would be nothing short of a miracle for them to wake up one day and find that they actually had a conscience. These people like Rykel only parot the mantra that they have been brainwashed into believeing. The real sadness also comes from remembering that the so called leadership gurus are nothing but shameful, phony, deceitful, scam artists making money off the lives of people like you who bled and sacrificed for these liars so that they can continue their well crafted web of lies and decption. One day, as you said, these gurus, and people like Rykel, will give an account for all the pain, sorrow, sadness, and devestation they left in the lives of those they misled. You are not a quitter. You made the right choice to leave the Team organization and move on to restore your life. Just think of the tragedy of all those still being decieved. The list of those who have had their lives ruined and deeply scarred grows greater every day. Maybe your list of 26 regrets will help warn others. Thanks for sharing.

  89. TOD permalink
    March 23, 2011 3:27 pm

    Switch is right. The business is not all puppy dogs and gumdrops. The leaders in Team cannibalize the masses in their groups. Monetarily speaking, it is a kill or be killed business. You either make it big ($7k+ per month) or you go down in flames. There is no middle ground. I bet if you took a poll of people in the Team and that would be the case.

    The only point that I am trying to get across is that if you spend more than you make month after month, then you do not have a business. The problem is that no one just looks at the facts because they are too busy listening to CD’s and going to meeting where the only portrayal of the business is sunshine and rainbows.

    I used to say someone was wicked smart, now I will refer to smart people as Chinese-smart.

  90. Obstacalez permalink
    March 30, 2011 8:42 am

    Dont forget numerous Turbo 10, 25, 50, 100’s etc that are gone too! Actually got a call a while back from a member who still believes they are working on the Wal-mart of the internet.

  91. Obstacalez permalink
    March 30, 2011 8:52 am

    I left TEAM because I could no longer walk into houses of folks who were giving it all they had and were losing cash hand over fist each month. I would see stacks of juice that they were not drinking, but theywere buying because that what good soldiers did. They would have the goals of go-getter, and power-player, and do all they could to make it happen. While I was making money, they were not. At the same time, I was catching my upline, and his upline in lies on a daily basis… our whole stinking TEAM was. I could not promote them and their lack of integrity, and I could not see them lose mony any longer. What I found when I left was a relief from my team as they felt free to do the same. I believe TOD has said it best on this site somewhere that the fact are simple, if you are not profiting after 1,2, or 5 years, swallow the pride and realize that it aint working, and do something else. It actually did work for me, but I had a conscience about my team. They were working too hard. I could go on Rykel, but I hope you get the point.

  92. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 30, 2011 8:53 am

    How delusional, LOL

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 30, 2011 9:01 am

    Thanks so much for your honesty. We made money also but when you add up the years we didn’t to the years we did, it is totaly a losing propsition! One year we spent 130,000 on all the system junk, I think we sold 60,ooo of that I would have to double check to the exact amount! We threw away $60,ooo in cd’s and tapes recently, when I cleaned out all the junk! That does not include 1 book!

  94. Jeff permalink
    March 30, 2011 9:13 am

    Claude’s favorite line was always “I’ve never met a poor person who couldn’t afford cable”.
    One of their comebacks for “handling the objection of no money”.
    I’m so glad I’m poor now. 🙂

  95. aurora permalink
    March 30, 2011 9:17 am


    March 21, 8:22 am.

    Excellent. About as succinct as it gets. Need to write it out out just as you’ve written it and keep it next tot the phon; and read it to the next mlm opportunity call I get. I’ll use a sing-song robotic voice. They won’t know what hit ’emwill have to run back to their leaders for advice.

  96. aurora permalink
    March 30, 2011 9:47 am


    Subjective perception? That phrase is nothing more than tapespeak bullshit.

    I had toast for breakfast. What ‘cold hard’ evidence do I need to provide to you for you to belive I had toast for breakfast?

  97. I Quit (and glad I did) #2 permalink
    March 31, 2011 7:29 pm

    I was reading Rykel’s comments about webelieved on 3/23 and maybe I can help shine light on his confusion about the “Team” taking the money away from all of us.

    Rykel, the “Team” was always about building a “B” business and if you wanted to stop building after a certain level you could. The idea behind this is to build the leaders behind you and eventually you can stop being active and have passive, residual income. However, when you make the decision that you no longer want to build and you take yourself off system, the money that we were making from tools stopped and was given to our upline. Even though we did the work of putting all those people in and getting them on system, Orrin took it away just like that.

    How is this fair? We did the work, we should be able to reap the benefits! So, where is the passive, residual income? I think that Orrin owes us a lot of money!

    On a different note, does anyone know anything about the following people?
    1. Don and Chris Freeze
    2. Joe and Jane McGuire
    3. Bob and Deb Hemmila
    4. Mark and Jen Paul
    5. Wayne and Leanna Kircher

  98. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 31, 2011 8:16 pm

    All those you mention are still there, the only one I am not sure of is Hemmila’s, a few years ago they were still with them.

  99. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 31, 2011 8:20 pm

    Not that it matters you made the point of the promised passive residual, on-going, b-type for the rest of your life we were still on their indoctrination system when they took our profit-sharing and even kicked us out of our own profit-sharing meetings!
    So that is why we wanted the contract they refused to give us!!!!!!!!

  100. dmricha permalink
    March 31, 2011 10:43 pm

    Bob and Deb Hemmila moved to SoCal and are still semi active. They are the uplines to my former uplines. They don’t show the plan any more but still go to seminars and such. Bob has a job now. I know they got pretty high at one point. Diamond I think but I can’t be sure. Now they’re Golds. I’m not all that certain about their history but they say that they refuse to actively build for “personal reasons”.

    I don’t have time, energy or at times courage to comment these blogs a lot but I’m really glad places like this, juciescam, and lazyman exist. Sometimes I get a little emotional reading the comments. I can’t believe I was involved in something like that but I’m glad to know that people are getting out and more importantly getting help.

    I think someone else touched on it before but there are so many other legitimate ways to make passive income or even just build your own tiny little (non mlm) business from home. It takes a whole lot of work but it’s possible. Leaving TEAM/Monavie isn’t the end of the world.

    To keep on topic with the post I do have a question for Orrin and Chris. All of the books that you’ve written are nothing but a bunch of quotes and slightly reworded concepts from other books. How do you explain the complete lack of original thought in any of your materials? What are you going to do when someone sues you for plagiary?

    Also you both have repeatedly stated that the money is in systems. When we used to show the plan one of the first things we talked about was the cash flow quadrant. Rich Dad Poor Dad was even on the recommended book list. The book clearly shows that the money is in owning the system not necessarily working one. You’ve said plenty of times to follow the system. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. How do you explain not following your own system and purposely misdirecting people so that they spend more money on your tools?

  101. I Quit (and glad I did) #2 permalink
    April 1, 2011 6:21 am

    I knew Hemmila’s moved to California because we were still in when they did. In fact, they really weren’t active after moving to Monavie. I was just wondering if anyone had heard from them. I do know that they never hit Diamond because when they went inactive we were still in.

    I was just thinking there hasn’t been any mention of the other folks I mentioned. Thought maybe they all wised up and figured out what we all did.

    Thanks for the reply!

  102. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 1, 2011 7:40 am

    “The book clearly shows that the money is in owning the system not necessarily working one.”

    Great point~
    Who owns that system? (Orrin owns & controls)

    Who works for that system? (All the rest)

    How many do you know that has been allowed to walk away and still get paid? (Not a single one)

    Deception! Ask Orrin who owns the Team, now?

    Simple it is not a b-type business for anyone else. It amazes me that anyone believes a word they say after more big leaders left than stayed, turbo’s of all levels, and the entire Dickie family?

  103. I Quit (and glad I did) #2 permalink
    April 2, 2011 8:59 am

    Orrin and Chris,

    Please explain to me why people who spend years of building the “business” and then choose to stop building because they are satisfied with their “residual” income, why do you take away the profit sharing? Even Monavie, Quixtar and Amway doesn’t do that. You build it to a certain level and if you stop they still pay you for all the work you put into it.

    You all stand on stage and talk about how we need to build it now to be able to play later. Why would you take away the profit sharing if someone says they are comfortable with their income and no longer wants to build? It is suppose to be our business! If we did the work of building and our teams are still building and we decide not to, what gives you the right to take away the profits? The work was done and we qualify for the profit sharing. How can you take it away and then stand in front of people and tell them that if they build it up front they can walk away with residual income?

    This is unethical behavior and not Christian behavior at all!!!!!!!!!!!!! You all will need to stand in front of the Lord some day and answer questions regarding your behaviors. I do not think you will be hearing, “Well done, my good and faithful servant”!

  104. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 2, 2011 7:45 pm

    IQ & IQ2
    Hmm….great questions, I wonder what leg in your upline that profit-sharing leg of yours went to; that you speak of? Could this give them more money in profit-sharing now that they have taken it from you? I believe they could count everyone’s profit-sharing legs anywhere it would benefit their PAY the most? Hmm….
    Very interesting the same thing happened with our profit-sharing qualifing leg and total system counts oh and the entire organization for you, us and others for that matter.
    Holy Crap, someone might just give themselves a mighty raise doing that! I bet that was a happy day 🙂
    I think there could be something to this, because I read they did the same thing to webelieved too as a matter of fact I know quite of few big leaders this same thing happened also! Well, hot damn, that must be how they get all those riches and material things they talk about, what do you think?

    Hope they are enjoying the fruits of that corruption because chances are that will be their only reward and pretty sure it won’t last!

    Thanks for sharing and we all know how you feel, it does take courage. Just know we have your back!

  105. dmricha permalink
    April 4, 2011 7:47 pm

    I’m going to start off with saying that I am in no way shape or form promoting anyone else’s business, system, product, or anything of the sort. I know some whacked out TEAM member will try to accuse me of it.

    webelieved – The best way I know of to start your home based business is by assessing the skills you already have and although some might argue I think you should also be passionate about it. You don’t want to get stuck doing something you don’t want to do just because it pays the bills.

    For example say you are really passionate about model trains. You’ve been playing with them since you were a kid. You know how to build them, take care of them, and everything else.

    You can build your business around that in a few different ways. The first and my personal favorite is to create information products about model trains. You can create ebooks, video series, or any number of things. They can be made cheaply or if you have a little skill for free and sold in a few major places online. If you build up an audience and market correctly there are endless business possibilities. The best part about it is that all of those things can make money without you having to physically be around. It will take time to build and market your products but it’s not a long term thing.

    Another option is to go the service route. Instead of creating products about model trains you can be a train consultant. You can market yourself as the model train guru. People can pay for personalized advice on upgrading, cleaning, care, setting up, repair, or anything else. You can even create specialized trains just for them. Since all of this depends on your knowledge the profit margin is high. You might have to pay for a website or ads but even then the cost of doing business is very low. The downside to this is that you have to consistently do something to make money so it takes more time away from family.

    If you have a high demand skill like writing, web design, or even administrative skills you can find lots of work on places like or . These places have people from all over the world looking to hire someone. If you put together a good portfolio work shouldn’t be hard to get. You can set your own rates, choose when you work, and who you work for. There is a time investment since you have to physically do work for someone else but you get to have a lot more control verses being a traditional employee. You might have to make a small investment in software or equipment depending on the work you choose to do but in the long run it pays for it’s self.

    Any of these can be combined with each other or altered to fit what works for you.

    The one thing I will strongly suggest is to legally establish yourself as a business entity as soon as you can. The easiest way is to establish an llc. This way you’ll have a bit of protection under the law as well as real tax benefits. Not the tax benefits that TEAM has you believe that you’re getting. It will cost a bit. Any where from around $200-$1000 a year. The price will vary by state but it’s well worth it.

    Check with your local small business bureau. They have a lot of FREE information on what it takes to run a business in your state. Many of them even have FREE seminars. There are also a lot of FREE entrepreneurial classes and seminars online. A lot of major universities have FREE online classes. You won’t get a diploma but will get a lot of valuable information. Check itunes university, or These are all good places to get FREE information. Also don’t forget about blogs, forums, and local groups. These are places where you can connect with other entrepreneurs while gaining knowledg.

    I put a lot of emphasis on the F word because it’s something you won’t hear a lot of in TEAM. They always throw the fact that TEAM members are mentored by “millionaires”. What they don’t tell you is that you have to pay thousands of dollars in order to get the same information found online and in the library for free. They also won’t tell you that those people aren’t really millionaires and most have no real business knowledge but that’s a whole different subject…

    I’m sorry about the long comment but I wanted to give you all the best information that I could. You aren’t losers or quitters because you left TEAM. This is simply a new chapter in your life. Now we all know how to recognize manipulation and bad business practices lets use that experience to make more ethical businesses.

    I’m not promising millions of dollars in residual income, an island, fancy cars, trips, or a jet. I will tell you that if you work hard, learn all you can, and manage your money well you’ll be able to live a good life with your friends and family while doing something you love.

    Isn’t that why we all joined TEAM in the first place?

  106. bill permalink
    May 16, 2011 10:06 am

    sounds like a lot of sour grapes

  107. May 16, 2011 10:41 am

    Care to elaborate?

    Orrin might think that we are envious, but like with a great many things, he is wrong.

  108. May 16, 2011 11:06 am

    With all the comments coming out, do you think I should switch away from threaded comments to just a list of comments by chronological order?

  109. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 16, 2011 1:35 pm

    Looks like none of these questioned were answered?

  110. May 16, 2011 6:56 pm

    Dear Orrin,

    Why do you lie so much?

    How do you look at yourself in the mirror each day?

    Here is your latest gem on twitter that really makes me laugh:

    “I utter falsehood never, but the truth not to every one.” – Sarpi

    Why do you try to make your self out to be a man of integrity, when WE all know that you have none?

    You like to self promote yourself and lift yourself up as if you have strong character, mucho integrity and we all know that is a LIE.

    How many times have we heard you slander others that left your business? How many countless times have we heard you fabricate false stories, spread gossip and rumors that weren’t true like a little school girl? How many times have you called your friends cowards behind their backs when they decided to quit team monavie to pursue a real income stream for their family? Is that not the honorable thing for them to do? To take care of their family? Yet, you will thrash them as if they are worthless scum and call them cowards behind their backs. Doesn’t this make you a coward? Yes, for trying to destroy ones reputation and attacking ones character behind their backs.

    I pity you for the FOOL that you are. You cannot hide the truth online and your dark secrets are coming out, people on this blog are speaking out, people are waking up and it is exciting to see the Titanic sinking! Actually, wait a minute, that gives you too much credit. Your boat is not even close to anything as glorious as the Titanic, maybe if you actually led a legitimate business where people ACTUALLY made money instead of losing it in your tool scam each month. And if your numbers were slightly larger than they are now, say like A MILLION or so and the results showed that people were creating wealth for their families instead of wealth for you, then yes, I would say that your little team life training business could be worth of being referenced to as the Titanic. However, at this time your little dinger is sinking and it is hilarious watching you trying to keep it afloat.

    Don’t you realize that it takes a REAL leadership guru, AKA a CAPTAIN, to lead a ship at sea? What makes you think that you can lead a ship when you are nothing but a CAMPING MANAGER?

    What? You don’t think you are a CAMPING MANAGER? How else do you explain the fact that you have not grown since you entered monavie while all of the other big shot leaders like Brig Hart are giving you a real waxing? Yeah, that is why you are a CAMPING MANAGER, because you are content going backwards while blaming others and trying to keep the little business you have left trucking on so that you can milk every dime and penny from your poor desperate little business owners and followers who truly feel that they have a shot at making money in team. That is the SAD part about all of this. The thousands of people that you are ruining because you are content CAMPING and MANAGING a BROKEN BUSINESS. How DO you sleep at night? I wonder.

    Good luck in life orrin. You surely will need it. I hear you call it LIES INSPIRING FEABLE ENDEAVORS, is that correct? Or maybe you don’t but someone does. I think that fits nice considering the vast amount of lies that you like to throw out there. The scary part is how convincing you sell your lies. Ouch. people really need to look closer at the evil they are dealing with.

    I find it funny as well that life is promoted as the next best thing since team of destiny. yes, that makes me chuckle.

  111. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 16, 2011 8:43 pm

    BOOM GOES THE DY-NO-MITE!!!!!!!!!!!
    Notice the quote isn’t his own~bahahahahaha!!!!
    I really hope he isn’t referring to himself, and if so, he better stay inside if there is a lighting storm!!!!

    The worst lie you tell, is the LIE, you tell yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    He must be reading those War books again, seems they are starting their ‘positive campaign’ again~they deliberately skim over the CORRUPTION, Personal Stories, Questions, truths on their use of deceptive tactics,etc… and say something really stupid, like anyone falls for their BS ‘fake’ postive or I have even seen one praise the corruption! Unbelievable!
    Just Confirms!

  112. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 16, 2011 9:15 pm

    The little dinger is sinking…..Hahahahahahahahah!!!!!

  113. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 16, 2011 9:45 pm

    Maybe you could try it and see how it goes?

  114. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 10, 2011 8:14 am

    Webelieved~ I don’t think you or any of the questions will get answers! Orrin is too much of a coward to come out in the public and answer these valid questions because then he would have to admit, he is sick, twisted, greedy, lies, and uses God to meet his greedy agenda!

  115. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 10:18 am

    Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 10:16 am

    Orrin, did you seriously say this? YOU have got to be freaking kidding, what a Hypocrite you ARE! When, and Where have you EVER ANSWERED QUESTIONS (there is a WHOLE POST of questions on Amthrax) or even let comments on your blog from anyone that doesn’t worship YOU and you have the audacity to say Scott is a pitiable waste of a life?


    Qrush is still waiting for Scott Larsen to email his answers to the simple question Qrush asked of him. Why can’t this pitiable waste of a life answer the questions posed of him?
    The public wants to know why Scott Larsen won’t answer the freaking questions.

  116. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 11:26 am


  117. August 17, 2011 12:28 pm

    @Speak – I know you know that Orrin is most likely never going to publicly comment on this website. On his own website is another thing entirely. If he doesn’t respond to legitimate and reasoned questions on his own site, then he has a problem.

  118. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 1:20 pm

    Yes, You right, we all know this but I also know he won’t answer questions from his site either, because to answer the questions would ‘Qrush’ him his reputation and might even show some criminal activity, that is if he had an ounce of integrity and would tell the truth!

    We have spent years under his terms, now its time he works from ours!

    But I also know he would just want to know who we are rather than answer any questions, so I feel if he has the audacity to Name Call, Anonymous Blog, and expect everyone else to answer his questions, then he should come here where all the leaders that built his riches and lifestyle are and answer our questions!

    From what I have been seeing he isn’t answer questions on FB either. He would be ‘doomed’ if he answered the questions with truth!

  119. Proceed w/ Caution permalink
    October 6, 2011 7:15 pm

    Hey All, 1st I just wanted to thank you for being my voice of reason. 2nd I read a lot of these posts but not all of them so if I repeat something I’m sorry, if this was TEAM we would probably just put it onto another cd and force people to re-buy it. One of my friends recently tried to get me back on with team under the new LIFE program. Originally, I had signed up him for TEAM and when they had just released LLR and left about a month into the MONA*VIE launch. When I told him that it just did not seem like the thing for me he seemed to get angry and question my decision. It was then I realized what had happened. This system creates an emotional response to a logical situation, a very dangerous thing in my experience… Just ask my girlfriend, who by the way I hope never reads that comment; deny, deny, deny. Some of the material I actually liked and sometimes still listen to and others I found to be boringly repetitive, and only served the purpose to try and keep you in the system. My problem was that it was just way too much to try and do school, work, extra-circulars (I was in a fraternity, please don’t judge), and TEAM with all of their cds and books…. I just could not keep up. If someone wants to do this please proceed with extreme caution and skepticism… if it is truly a good system then it should be questioned not just accepted, please do your homework. Also, if the product is the people and the promise exponential growth then you need exponential product, somewhere down the line someone is going to get screwed out of profits.

  120. October 6, 2011 10:15 pm

    @Proceed – have you found most of the members in TEAM in your area are of college-age? Have you asked your friend what’s the difference between TEAM of old and LIFE? Has he made any money from the MonaVie-side of the business (since you couldn’t profit from the TEAM tools unless you were a TEAM Director)?

  121. Proceed w/ Caution permalink
    October 6, 2011 10:50 pm

    he says he is making money enough for his wife to nolonger work a regular job, and yes we were one of the youngest teams when i was in it, our age range was from 19 to no older than 27, with the exception of our upline… and yes i did ask what was different but he basically just explained it as if it were mona-vie just a different product with a gambit of various options

  122. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 7, 2011 8:42 am

    Proceed w/Caution~

    Thanks for your comments,Well is based on ’emotion’ and not providing facts to allow people to make an educated decision. Isn’t it interesting that the guy seemed to be angry when you told him NO…now why would that be? If the business is soooo need to get angry because someone says it isn’t for them, the ‘business’ should ‘sell’ itself with all it’s greatness.

    “He says he is making money enough for his wife to nolonger work a regular job,” I would ask to see his tax returns. 🙂

  123. bill permalink
    October 18, 2011 10:28 am

    Just want to add a 3rd party point of view.
    I am not part of team nor monavie nor have i ever been.
    I once heard someone say that time will either promote you or expose you, and that
    If one is doing the right things and bringing value to the market they will be promoted, and
    If not they will be exposed. So perhaps time will tell.
    Other leaders have been criticized and received hate mail, one of which quoted
    “I can’t change millions of lives by saying nothing, doing nothing, and being nothing. So I take the anger, the criticism, and even the hate mail as encouragement.”
    Others have said that “they have never seen a statue erected in honor of a critic” and
    “dogs don’t bark at parked cars”
    Well thats all I have time for, may each and every one of you have success in whatever path you choose in life!

  124. Bugzs bunney permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:19 pm

    Having been personally managed by Brady I can honestly say he is thick, he employes illegal tactictics to try ang get his own way, he should hare re read his earlier book, the game or some such, especially the chapter called play by the rules I suspect it was written by the coauthor bradys son rather than the interlectual fraud who moves between jobs quicker than a tart buys new knickers. This is a humermeroursous piece and it should not be considered truthful

  125. Call me crazy permalink
    December 7, 2011 6:01 am

    I went to my first “web seminar” last night in PA. An old friend who has recently been in touch with me invited me. Wow! I felt like I was the only one not drinking the kool-aid! I enjoyed hearing Orrin and Chris speak. But to sign up because I thought they had something that no one else had would be CRAZY!

    No pressure except from the MC saying to reserve your spot you should sign up NOW. I’m concerned for my friend, it is obvious that he really BELIEVES! I did notice that he paid $10 to be there, I on the other hand was FREE?!

    Thanks, I went looking on internet for any info about these two guys. Came across this website and so glad I did. I wasn’t going to sign up anyway but this site was an answer to prayer.

  126. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 7, 2011 9:38 am

    Call me crazy~

    Welcome and glad you found the site! You have a legitimate concern for your friend…this will suck the life out of him..including his money. You have seen through the game of they are the ‘only’ ones and thank God you didn’t get only would gets more CRAZY!

    Good luck with your friend…hope he sees the light before he gets totally drained by the cult…drinking the kool-aid…the longer you get into the immerse yourself into their closed ‘guru’ ..belief system..the more potent the kool-aid becomes!

  127. Call me crazy permalink
    December 8, 2011 4:57 am

    I have to tell you a little funny…Orrin (he spoke first) shared a story, a well known children’s story called the Emperor’s New Clothes. It’s in my children’s book of Virtues under HONESTY. Orrin didn’t say anything about honesty. I spoke how we view ourselves. How we need to stand up for what we believe. The whole time I’m thinking about having read it to my sons for years. Well, as he told it I could not help but think how it applied to looking at the BUSINESS.

    If you don’t know the story, look it up. Sounds so much like what seems to happen based on reading all of these posts.

  128. Call me crazy permalink
    December 8, 2011 6:55 am

    I haven’t seen my friend for years but still see his dad regularly. I think my friend is disenchanted with life (married, two kids, sole income provider, etc.) and wondering if there is more out there. He is a believer (as am I) and wanting to know that there is more to life.

    I am in the business world. I did Dale Carnegie about 20 years ago because my employer wanted any of us in sales to go through it. I did and then was a graduate assistant for DC for several years. I am pretty comfortable in my skin.

    What I found interesting was we are in the basement of a hotel, it is a web conference and the feed kept being interrupted. Of course it was because so many thousands all over the country were trying to be on it too. That happened the entire night.

    When the guy on the screen introduced Orrin as the speaker, people in our room started standing up and clapping. A standing ovation for a speaker on a screen?! Crazy. I can understand after a comment that is inspiring or funny to laugh or clap but really, standing up and clapping for someone who can’t see you?!

    I looked around the room and what a vast group. From young people probably in college to much older couples. I think my friend was impressed with one of the guys in his TEAM because he is a school principal and look at how successful he is in building his business….

    I am personally leary of anyone who is #7 or #13 and I ask what have they done in their life or what business are they in and no one can tell me….It’s obvious that if you have people or a captive audience to BUY your book that you will quickly go up the charts.

    Never felt pressure and everyone I met or spoke to were very kind.

  129. June 6, 2012 10:59 am

    I need six (6) copies of Chris Brady’s “Camel” disc. How do I go about buying? Bob Coyle, (518) 424-1658 or Thanks! Bob

  130. June 6, 2012 11:01 am

    Just let me know how to go about buying six copies of “Camel In the Tent.” Thanks! Bob Coyle

  131. June 7, 2012 2:02 pm

    Here is the link from the LIFE website. I’m sure you can find these from former TEAM members (or even current ones who have duplicates) for far cheaper than $10/CD:

  132. October 14, 2012 8:24 am

    For me being a person who has made it to round table in this LIFE business with hard work and determination by my team and family, I dont see where you people come off showing a truth in something when you clearly show that you were to big of a punk to make the transition yourselves to get financially free. This company has changed 100’s of thousands of peoples lives and has been proven to be the solution- so how about you all go jump off a bridge or something??? how about you find another company that has better benefits, a better pay plan and then you come back with hard evidence and proof showing me that this company which I have only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake. You people are pathetic and need to find a hobby or something!

  133. October 15, 2012 12:23 pm

    @Mark – how do you know that the LIFE business has changed hundreds of thousands of lives? That’s a bit of hyperbole without any proof to back it up (repeating leaders’ claims is not proof).

  134. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 15, 2012 1:01 pm

    Mark said: “how about you find another company that has better benefits, a better pay plan and then you come back with hard evidence and proof showing me that this company which I have only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake”

    Um, you are an independent contractor—ya ain’t go any “bennies” and ya ain’t got a real “pay plan”–not really and they’ve only disclosed the convoluted 9-10 pages they want you to see–did you ever read that contract you signed? Hope you have started a good 401k/other investments,, well-stocked rainy-day savings account, health/disability insurance, life insurances, etc., because when the bottom drops out of the “biz”, as the Federal Trade Commission reported: you’re going to be in the pile of the 96% of losers in this endeavor of selling dreams (never mind actual renewable, consumable commodities that other MLMs at least make an attempt to sell).

  135. freedomhaha permalink
    October 15, 2012 3:30 pm

    Mark- As a RT I have a question for you. What percentage of your downline is making money? As a business owner that seems like something reasonable to be aware of. I greatly anticipate your answer!

  136. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 15, 2012 6:27 pm


    Could you explain the qualifications and numbers you have to claim you are a RT?

    Next could you explain what you mean here: ” I dont see where you people come off showing a truth in something when you clearly show that you were to big of a punk to make the transition yourselves to get financially free.”… Transition to financial freedom?

    Then could, “YOU come back with hard evidence and proof showing me” that “this company” ( I am assuming you mean Team LIEF) has changed 100′s of thousands of peoples lives and has been proven to be the solution? And explain the “proven solution,”

    You Mark then ask a question :” how about you find another company that has better benefits, a better pay plan and then you come back with hard evidence and proof showing me that this company which I have only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake. ”

    Answer to your My husbands job!!!

    Mark you either have made a mistake or are trying to mislead, but how can you “only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake.”

    That is not possible Mark, how has it made you richer every year, you have only been there a year? Thanks for the laughs though.

    Mark, this is what I suspect, you are not a RT and doubt you have even been in a year. Why do I suspect this? If you were a RT your comments would be riddled with rhetoric in every sentence, but feel free to “prove” me wrong with that hard evidence by giving us your full name and access to your back office. And PLEASE read the LIEF P&P, it will save you years of frustration,

    Mark you have NO control over “making money year after year or in your sleep” nor do you OWN anything!

  137. No Team For Me permalink
    October 15, 2012 6:49 pm

    The only Mark who is a currently qualified RT that I know if is Mark Haas. I’m sure he may be making money. The real question is…how many people on his team are making a net profit after all the business expenses. And more importantly what percentage of all the people registered on Mark’s team over the course of a year a making a net profit. I’d be very surprised if more than .001% of everyone on Mark’s team are making more than a net profit of $5,000 a year.

    And what’s with the “hundreds of thousands of people” comment. I believe hundreds of thousand of lives may have been changed, but I believe they have been changed for worse, not for better. Just take a look at the Darkangelo bankrupcty filings which are public information – over $250,000 in consumer debt. (Not to mention the fact that they fell a bit short of the claimed 10% tithing that Teamscam leaders claim. They didn’t even have 1%).

  138. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 15, 2012 7:19 pm

    Mark have you ever heard the statement: You can’t con a con? We believed we were helping people learning all kinds of great leadership, to have woken up and being robbed of our efforts, money, our entire team and most precious TIME! We were also RT along with a whole list of others who were at least RT that left the Team & Orrin because of unethical reasons. AS a “RT” you know this and yet you still promote them?

    We were in the system and “recruited” people and had thousands but went through probably 10’s of thousands, for 13 years, listened to thousands Cd’s, Books, Seminars, Majors, learned and have experienced their “sales techniques” (they use as manipulation), and later found out they were liars and deceivers.

    We too believed we were “making money while we slept” ( J. Paul Getty) and that was true all the way up til you have to “wake-up” from that “dream” to face reality to have to replace the 5 that just quit, while you were sleeping!! Wake-up Mark, you are being conned. Keep your job or find your purpose, trust me what you ‘see’ is not what it seems.

    Think on These quotes, Mark: “No one can possibly achieve any real and lasting success or ‘get rich’ in business by being a conformist.”~ J. PAUL GETTY

    “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it.” ~Albert Einstein

  139. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 15, 2012 7:22 pm

    No Team for Me~

    What about Mark Militello? This Mark is very green to can tell by his comments. 🙂

  140. Emily permalink
    October 15, 2012 8:02 pm

    Mark and Anna Huber are no longer round table?

  141. No Team For Me permalink
    October 16, 2012 5:27 am

    Oops! Brain freeze. Don’t know how I forgot about Huber & Militello. That did sound like it could have come from Militello.

  142. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    October 16, 2012 7:16 am

    I saw a show on some channel called ridiculousness. It seems to be a cross between funniest home videos and jackass. I couldn’t help but feel I was about to see a clip from a team event. It would fit beautifully! Mark will probably be featured in the next installment of “One comment wonders of lief”. Right Mark? I’ll be lookin for ya!

  143. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 16, 2012 7:20 am

    I QUIT!


  144. Freedomhaha permalink
    October 16, 2012 2:17 pm

    When I ask the question (that has not not been answered by the way) I always include making a PROFIT not making money as I made the mistake of doing this time. Then I add the second part that profit= income- expenses. I remember when I was unable to do basic econ that I studied in college when I was in The Cult.

  145. October 17, 2012 12:13 pm

    @Mark October 14, 2012 8:24 am

    “…this company which I have only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake.”

    Mark is not even good at lying to himself. Some fools do think they are smart! Another TEAMmunist drive-by tragedy!

  146. switch permalink
    October 18, 2012 12:21 pm

    mark says-
    “For me being a person who has made it to round table in this LIFE business with hard work and determination by my team and family, I dont see where you people come off showing a truth in something when you clearly show that you were to big of a punk to make the transition yourselves to get financially free.”

    Please enlighten us on how you went RT in the LIEf business? It’s one year anniversary is coming up Nov 1, 2012 and according to you, you’ve done quite well. So, tell us the EXACT steps you took to get there…..the truth would be that you did your work through scamway/quixtar and flogging the joker juice. The numbers don’t lie do they, mark? One year into the scam and they should be well up around 200,000 people if at the 5 year mark hits 1 mill.

    mark says-
    “This company has changed 100′s of thousands of peoples lives and has been proven to be the solution- so how about you all go jump off a bridge or something???”

    The SOLUTION???? Cut the shit, mark….. have you taken a look at the scoreboard lately? And with all do respect sir, we aren’t the ones that are waiting for the command to jump off some crazy bridge or the next one O.W. commands everyone (including yourself) to do so, so he can benefit the profits. Am I far off on that one mark? Orrin says, jump….would you? I’m gonna take a wild guess and say “hell yea”.

    mark says-
    “how about you find another company that has better benefits, a better pay plan and then you come back with hard evidence and proof showing me that this company which I have only been working for, for a year has made me richer every year, every moment I go to sleep and every moment I wake. You people are pathetic and need to find a hobby or something!”

    Step #1 mark, be honest with yourself…..according to you here, this scam has made you richer EVERY YEAR…..but wait a second….I thought you said you made it to RT with the LIFE business? But the LIEf business has only been around for a little less then one year but you’re “GETTING RICHER EVERY YEAR”??????

    You’re a walking LIE sir.

  147. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 18, 2012 2:20 pm


    Huber’s aren’t RT anymore? I heard that they are doing recognition differently and having the RT walk every month if they are still qualified. Do you know if this is how they are doing recognition? If this is true that would show, they aren’t growing. We all know now people have lied about their numbers and it doesn’t mean people won’t lie or pretend they are qualified. I have heard some big leaders have faked their numbers, and counted ‘system counts’ when they don’t have them. So could you explain how you know the Huber’s not RT anymore?

    And on topic of this thread this is one of my favorites!


    I have a “solution” for Mark…get a job, hang onto the one he has because he will need it and Run as far away from them and as fast as he can for the hills! 🙂

  148. Emily permalink
    October 18, 2012 7:11 pm

    Melanie, I don’t know anything about the Hubers. No team for me said that the only registered RT named Mark is Mark Haas. I was really surprised that Huber was not RT so I asked him. You asked about Militello. He responded to both of us saying “Oops! Brain freeze. Don’t know how I forgot about Huber & Militello. So as far as I know he is still RT. Sorry for the confusion. I also don’t know if this is how they are doing recognition.

  149. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 18, 2012 8:22 pm


    Sorry but thanks for helping clear my confusion too, haha. 🙂

  150. Finally permalink
    October 19, 2012 4:15 am

    Mark….. asked for proof??? where is his proof??? His proof of becoming richer every year, his proof of 100’s of thousands lives changed………Hitler changed millions of lives, it doesnt mean it was for the better……………as far as benefits…..I have friends that were in Martins group and after they switched to lief his son broke his arm and Jim was pitching a fit because they no longer had health insurance and had to pay out of pocket………If this is true, and I have no reason to think it is not, where is the great benefits package??? Melanie and Raquel have shown their proof………where is Mark’s???? Put your numbers up from 2010-2012………….actual not your “in my mind numbers” We all know how the game is played it is a game of smoke and mirrors even at the top…………Playing one team against the other claiming “exponential” growth with no net change in Team numbers in years…….Truth is unbiased and so are numbers……….splain yourself Mark…….not just the Team hype, real stuff……….the thousands upon thousands that lost marriages, relationships, finances, homes etc……..while funding team profit sharers………Oh that’s right those people they are all punks, isnt that what you said? If they are punks, what do you call a man that steals, lies and cheats his best friends all day everyday? I will help……… His first name begins with an O………..

  151. October 19, 2012 4:27 am

    Finally…I think you just came up with a new nickname for Orrin…The Man of Steal!

  152. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 19, 2012 9:46 am


    Wonder why Mark hasn’t came back with HIS proof, perhaps he read the LIEF P&P and has faced the facts, we can only hope for Mark sake he did, then he can stop lying to himself and his losing downline.

    As Freedomhaha ask all: How many people in your group, Mark are making a “profit” year after year and in their sleep?”

    I sincerely hope Mark uses his critical thinking and snaps out of the illusion before he hurts others and adds more pain to his future.

    Platinum Blond~

    Perfect! hahaha!

  153. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 19, 2012 9:47 am

    Very Fitting new nick name and it really isn’t that funny!

  154. Finally permalink
    October 19, 2012 1:07 pm

    Yea Melanie, did he get a waiver to read this site in the first place??? Isnt this site against their P&P?????? Give me a freaking break……Not one of their teams or claims would stand up to scrutiny outside of the Lief cult and the leaders know it…..they’ve admitted it in meetings where people who are now out were at………..the higher you climb the further the fall……I know this from personal experience………Sooner or later you have to face the truth…..will they???? Maybe……..I know the wives have but they get hush money, shoes, purses, homes, cars and trips to suffer in silence…..If you doubt that just look at the health issues of the wives and the emotional health of them………Every single one of them have something going on and I am sure it is at least in large part due to their inner turmoil……..One of the “leaders” Wives, I’m told has had a migraine for most of their Lief/team career……..maybe it’s related maybe it’s not……I would venture to say it is………

  155. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 19, 2012 8:13 pm



    Great point on the “hush money”, it is disturbing that these supposed “Christian” women would choose to sweep under the rug everything they know their husbands have done that were unethical, illegal, and immoral. The deception, lies, theft others business, the “special deals” and destruction they all KNOW they have done to all those people that spent years building then steal it over night then ‘pretend’ none of that happened? They all cover it up and are on autopilot with “edification” of their husbands. Edification make keep the shopping money and padded bank accounts but it doesn’t their evil deeds. So, I am not surprised they don’t have more health issues. I know what the stress did to my health personally. I believe it is cognitive dissonance and denial that causes the illness.

    I have no doubt these women know all the lies, the lying under oath from their husbands, the pressure for others to lie for them in court, breaking the law under a judges gag order, the hiding of documents and then top it off with the absolute destruction of everyone’s business…tell me how this is biblical, ethical or the right thing? The top 7 made a pack and sold out on all the rest the loyal trusting followers.

    Now, they brag, in these economic times about their DOG in a Louis Vitton outift and their daughter showing off her Louis Vitton bag? They refused to sacrifice or do the right thing, now they have to live with all they have done and will eventually answer for it. They are the cowards, that won’t stand up no matter what the consequence. They were willing to destruct and stole from all others just to keep their yachts, shopping sprees, vacations, mansions, fleet of cars, all their “goods”… all in the name of God and ‘changing the world? I would never want their life.

    What leadership or biblical instruction tells others to do evil to hundreds of thousands to ‘claim’ they are doing ‘good’ or making themselves rich; the top 7?…It is Amazing how the “lifestyle” and greed keeps them hostage and unwilling to do the right thing or stand up to their husbands. Disturbing really.

  156. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 20, 2012 7:48 am

    My questions are what have these women done to right their wrongs? Have they ever even tried contacting all women and their children to as much as apologize for what they have done?!! They are as responsible and could have done something. How can they sweep it under the rug knowing for at least 4 years (I believe they knew a whole lot longer) they were promoting a pyramid scheme, with hopelessly over priced products, in fact, having the whole team spend even more on those “hopelessly overpriced products than necessary by making it 150 PV for Power Player rather than 100PV? Sickening.

    They KNOW they were promoting people to OVER spend their hard earned incomes they needed for their families, then they promised for years passive residual income and then go along with their husbands stealing others teams? How do they live with themselves?! IS this what “Christians” do?

    What would they have done if Billy Florence, Randy Haugen, Smiths, or anyone of the other Big Business Builders they solicited and Laurie W. had to know of Orrin’s long time scheme, she knew he was “planning” on doing just what he did for at least 4 years! Then steal all those people form all those leaders and justify it, really? What happened to ‘practice what you preach’..You should ALWAYS follow your UPLINE…remain loyal like they tell everyone in the Team to do? Do they see all their hypocrisy?

    What would they have done if the tables were turned and they are left with nothing but destruction and ruin of all of their teams and stolen their YEARS of efforts and income by their schemes and lied to to boot? Answer that one!

    How do they promote the LIEF pay plan when they sued Amway for being a pyramid scheme and their pay-plan is almost identical? They didn’t change anything, the downline take from their families to make them rich.

    Do they think that because they are “being biblically submissive” and “following their husbands” when they themselves intentionally allowed and participated in have stolen all these leaders business and incomes and all the other things unethical, immoral, illegal and they do nothing about it? How can they promote all they do about their husbands and know all of this? Have they justified it by “forgiving” their own and husbands corruption and just “moving on, believing they shouldn’t have any recourse?”

    Do they believe this isn’t their problem and this it exempts them from All the wrongs they knowingly and willing have done to thousands of others and some of their claimed so called “friends?”

    I believe they could learn a lot from Bernie Madoff’s sons or millions of other examples of those who have owned up and done something about the injustice and wrongs; That is courage, something they don’t have apparently or perhaps the money is justification enough! Bernie’s sons turned their own Father in because that was the RIGHT thing to do? It obviously was the hardest thing they ever did but who said doing the right thing is going to be “easy.”….”Success isn’t easy, but it is worth it!”… Have they ever even tried to call up all these women they have stolen from, destructed their business and damaged their lives or have they just continued to bury their head in the sand, let their husbands continue without any recourse? Do they REALLY believe this is the right thing, REALLY?

    Do they not teach their children if they have stolen, lied, cheated, wronged people etc. to do the right thing, go make amends, do whatever it takes to right their wrongs?

    Hope the top 7 women are reading this, they claim they are “changing” America….answer those questions and let me know how you are “changing” America and the message you are sending to your own children.. for the better?

    [Editor’s note: removed double paragraph]

  157. switch permalink
    October 20, 2012 6:14 pm

    “Now, they brag, in these economic times about their DOG in a Louis Vitton outift and their daughter showing off her Louis Vitton bag? They refused to sacrifice or do the right thing, now they have to live with all they have done and will eventually answer for it. They are the cowards, that won’t stand up no matter what the consequence. They were willing to destruct and stole from all others just to keep their yachts, shopping sprees, vacations, mansions, fleet of cars, all their “goods”… all in the name of God and ‘changing the world? I would never want their life.”

    Just remember…it’s all about a show…a FAKE show, that is. And who exactly is the BEST at it?

    Who in their right mind would like to flaunt their dog in some idiotic outfit is beyond me…and why?… to put on a show.

  158. Finally permalink
    October 21, 2012 3:26 am

    Well said Melanie………bottom line is for them especially, as Christians and for us as well….
    god know their true motives…and so do they………..It comes down to this…tweeting about God does not make you right in his eyes, He knows what they do all day long and scheme and put many hours in denying and deflecting the truth such as is found on here from those who have been close to them and have heard right from the O’s mouth what and who he truly is……….I was at a meeting a long time ago. Tim Marks was defending O over something and he commented that if anyone ever attacked O he would have to bring a lunch cuz if there was a fight Tim was in for the long haul……….He has his 4th floor floor prayer room as the whole world knows….My question is……….Tim would publicly defend Christ in the same manner and loyalty you give Orrin? I would think one would have to be careful how he answers that………..It might cause him to have to leave Lief………

    As far as the wives…………You covered it Melanie, they know, boy do they know. They wear their submissive badge like they are martyr’s. Sad thing is they are closing their eyes to truth and that is not being submissive……….and the only ones fooled are the ones doing it…

  159. October 21, 2012 8:14 am

    @Finally – for better readability of your comments, can you please add paragraph breaks instead of periods?

  160. Finally permalink
    October 21, 2012 11:31 am

    Will do Amthrax

  161. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 21, 2012 12:40 pm


    The intent is blatant and crystal clear by their actions.

    Orrin and other PC intentionally misleads people and had been for many years continuing to pillage people of their finances, selling false hope in that “Best Business Bar NONE…pyramid scheme with hopelessly overpriced products company they worked in for almost a decade and a half…called…Amway.

    He knows the reason don’t “make it” isn’t because of the lack of performance their “performance”; it is almost impossible without the special deals and is deliberately stacked against the masses, that less than 1% ever make it to PC..they know the masses are guaranteed to lose. But yet he himself does and teaches others to call them losers, quitters, critics, and internet haters and many other derogatory names.

    Created the hate and vulgar anonymous blog, QRUSH, against a few select people he hated especially Scott Larsen trying to ruin their reputations. He knew Scott Larsen was sharing the facts and truth, and then had the gall to sue and gag him, then turn around and AGREE with him, in the Amway lawsuit! Scott Larsen should sue Orrin for everything he’s got and to remove the gag.

    Orrin and the PC knew they had the data from the Amway Company and yet kept that information from everyone and still does with their LIEF scam. NEVER informed any speaker or leader or created “the plan” to inform with the truth! The “plan” was duplicatable and you are expected to do as they do. It is deceptive and they told everyone what to cover and how to cover it in “the plan” and not to say Amway when they were Amway, and Quixtar when it was Quixtar, they “sold” it as “we aren’t Amway or Quixtar” they are just our “supplier.” ~The intent was extremely clear.

    Orrin and Chris created the contacting script, what and how went into the plan. In other words controlled what was said and how it was “sold.”

    He knew the lack of viability and knew the numbers, knew about the products being unsalable and knew the Masses would NEVER make a dime “profit” or make it to a profitable or Diamond business and knew all those “friends” and families would create massive credit debt, go broke trying to build an unsustainable, non B-type, replacement business, but told everyone for years it was. They stood on stages for years and sold lies to tens if not hundreds of thousands who were “churned” through the Team system.

    He knew people could “buy” their way to Diamond but never shared that with the masses; and continued to mislead others into believing it was done on sheer efforts.

    He claims a “bench marking study” that was obviously bogus, they aren’t even promoting that company after less than 3 years and the real smoking gun, is the 3 million (or a lot more millions) that HE got for saying he did a “bench marking study”…just common sense folks.

    All the speakers, including the PC claim they got financially free and are set financially through the Team LIEF “business”, then give others poor financial advise keep them supporting that old pyramid scheme business, Amway and their new LIEF PC scam. And behind the scenes “secret”.. they are deceiving others, because they are earning and supporting their families with other sources of incomes, they have bought other companies they don’t want others knowing about and some of them have jobs. They deceive others.

    I haven’t even touched the point of the real motive, intent and their actions during the “exodus” from Amway/Quixtar (because he knew if he told everyone it was a pyramid scheme, rather than the “best business bar none: HE would LOSE everything! So, he the PC and their wives continued to lie,deceive, and mislead others and came up with the “Walmart of the Internet” that we were ALL going to! Find the CD where he first mentions this, that will tell you when he started scheming to get away from the “pyramid scheme”, how long they continued to bring people into a illegal pyramid scheme!

    I could list out so much more that with hindsight and with some common sense, based on the now reality and their actions that would show their intent. It is and always will be mostly about the MONEY! You don’t sell people into an illegal pyramid scheme…without the intent being MONEY!

  162. October 22, 2012 8:53 am

    After the whole split with Q had somewhat blown over, our upline Diamond’s wife told us that she had had no idea how bad things really had gotten because her husband hadn’t told her anything about the legal proceedings. I’m sure he considered her too “fragile” to be able to handle the truth. I don’t know whether I believe that she had no clue or not (although she was pretty clueless on many things), but I DO believe that the Team leaders stress submissiveness of the wives as part of their plot to rule the world. It definitely has nothing to do with their Christian beliefs, that’s just a convenient tool they use.

    I can kind of understand my upline Diamond’s wife not knowing what was going on, but there is no way that I can believe Terri Brady was/is clueless! Certainly there can’t be any way that ALL of the Top 7’s wives are in the dark, unless they all moved to Stepford!

    It always disturbed me that the leader’s wives would have to ask their husbands how much money they could spend on clothes when we went on those horrid dream building trips to Chicago, where the ladies went shopping for their Diamond/Emerald gowns. Some of the wives even had to ask their husbands if they could change their hair style! For crying out loud ladies…think for yourselves for a change! Maybe we are in Stepford!

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