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How To Earn Tool Income and Become a Director on Orrin Woodward’s TEAM

March 21, 2011

It’s a mystery across virtually all MLM System Organizations.

How does one qualify to earn money from the sales of tools and function tickets?

There’s no System Income Disclosure Statement that’s handed out when showing the plan. After all, distributors want to show you how you can make tons of money selling juice, vitamins, laundry products, BBQ supplies or chocolate. They don’t want you to know — or they might not even known themselves — that a lot of money is made through the sales of books, CDs, seminar tickets and other business building materials.

My criticism and investigative efforts as of late have been focused on Orrin Woodward’s TEAM organization. My opinion is that he is doing people far more financial and emotional harm than good, and I want people to know exactly what they are getting themselves into when they align themselves with this self-proclaimed leadership guru. There’s been quite a bit of traffic coming from ex-TEAM members, and the discussion has been extremely illuminating. Here’s what I’ve learned about how one can profit from the plan within the plan, a.k.a. the tools and training business in TEAM.

This is going to be a long post, but it’s only because there’s so much information to absorb. Let’s get started!

First off, some definitions:

  • TEAM Director: A TEAM member who has qualified for TEAM Pay from the sales of tools and function tickets.
  • 50×25: 50 distributors deep on one leg and 25 distributors deep on the other leg.
  • Turbo 25: 25 distributors on each leg who are attending seminars.
  • Turbo 12: 12 distributors on each leg who are subscribed to TEAM’s training system and standing order ticket (SOT).

In order to become a TEAM Director and qualify for TEAM pay, you have to have 50×25 with verified Turbo 25 and Turbo 12 parameters.

If you reach this goal in a month, you’re looking at the following perks:

  • $2000-3000/month in income — note this does not account for expenses.
  • Edification from upline.
  • Speaking opportunities at seminars — do you get to hold the microphone?

The income figure appears to be a combination of MonaVie bonuses and TEAM Pay. While TEAM encourages you to use this dollar figure while showing the plan, TEAM wants the prospect to think that all of this is coming from MonaVie, a.k.a. the “primary” way to make money from this business opportunity. Here is an excerpt from a TEAM memo to Directors, sent on February 24, 2011, that highlights this:

However, I want to remind you that Team’s Director Compensation Plan shouldn’t be presented to prospects or new distributors as an enticement or as one of the benefits of becoming a MonaVie Distributor being educated, led and fueled by Team. This is specifically referenced in the Director Requirements section of your Director Agreement (section 5.20). I have included the actual text below.

* Director understands that as a Director he, she, or it can be paid for his, her, or its service to Team. However, Team is not a business opportunity for any of our Members and a Director will never promote it as such nor will he, she or it allow others to do so.

The Policy Council recommends that you quote/explain earnings of 2 to 3 thousand a month in your plan and that as your business grows your income grows etc. If you have specific questions regarding how to explain/present please contact your Round Table or Policy Council Member.

Ah, so there is indeed a document, called the Director’s Compensation Plan, which explains all of this. That would be a good document to have and to analyze.

The next question is how people achieve these lofty numbers? Ex-TEAM members know the answer to this question.

Power Player anyone?

Power Players are TEAM’s elite distributors who are recognized on stage as the movers and shakers of TEAM. What are the qualifications for Power Player, you might ask? Well, there are over half-a-dozen CDs or brochures from TEAM that you would have to pay for to get this knowledge. Since this blog is about saving you money, I’m going to cut to the chase and describe it below. You can also view this information in PDF form:

Becoming a Power Player

  • You are “on system” (subscribing to the full training system)
  • 1st team 10 in depth, 4 on system
  • 2nd team 5 in depth, 2 on system
  • Subscribe to E.B.C. (Electronic Business Center)
  • Generate 200PV and be on AutoShip
  • Top 50 CD pack ($265)
  • Go-getter – 15 plans a month
  • Attend all local Open Meetings
  • Attend all Monthly Seminars ($25-30/ticket)
  • Attend all Leadership Conventions ($125/ticket)
  • Team 10

Goodness gracious, that’s a lot of requirements! And, that’s a lot of money flowing through the TEAM coffers! Note only item #5 pertains to the MonaVie business. Everything else is TEAM/System related. Now, you know why the MLM business is really secondary. For many MLM Systems, the tools are the primary method1 to make lots of money.

Sources have told me that in order to reach 50×25 with Turbo 25 and Turbo 12, a distributor would have to go Power Player at least five times. Five times?!? I thought one could build this business on just a few extra hours a week or that the business would build itself just by drinking and sharing the juice? Is it just me, or is there a grand disconnect between how TEAM presents the business and how the business is really built???

If I were a prospect looking at TEAM/MonaVie, I would pass on the opportunity. It’s pretty clear that it represents too much time, effort and money for what you get. There are plenty of other ways to generate income and free up my time that don’t require this Herculean amount of effort.

Some questions for my readers:

  • Are the current TEAM Leaders even qualifying for TEAM Pay these days?
  • Can anyone reasonably go Power Player once, let alone three or five times?
  • How much effort is required to maintain this status? Seems like it’s akin to building a sandcastle.

So there you have it, an explanation — subject to the changing whims of TEAM2 — on how to become a TEAM Director and qualify for TEAM Pay.

To Ex-TEAM and current TEAM members, please let me know if there are any corrections that need to be made to this explanation.

Corrections and Edits

  • Added the date on which the TEAM memo was sent (February 24, 2011).

1 It’s no different for Brig Hart’s R3Global or Greg Duncan’s WWDB. Each System proudly proclaims that it’s the best System for creating leaders and building big MLM businesses. In my opinion, the only thing they are “the best at” is taking their distribtors’ money away!

2 Some Ex-TEAM distributors have been writing about how there tool income was taken away from them with no explanation. Well, miss just one of these qualifications — for instance, a child’s birthday party causes you to miss a montly seminar — and poof! Orrin decrees you are not worthy of Power Player status, and your TEAM pay is docked or eliminated. Sorry. Better luck next month.

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178 Comments leave one →
  1. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:24 am

    Amthrax
    Great Post!!!!!!
    You have been putting forth information lately that I would love to see the Fraud experts, Cult Experts, Attorneys, FTC, and Attorney Generals come here to view and see what and if futher investigations needs to be done!!!!!Isn’t this what people really want to know about the “busniess opprotunity”, “be your own boss”, “own and you are in charge of your own buisness and how much you make”, “free enterprise” “passive, residual, ongoing, b-type, willable income for the rest of your life income!!!”Everyone gets started in the “business opprotunity”for the money, because that is the way it is sold at first, but then they slowly indoctrinate with thought reform to get you trapped in this visious cycle and believing you will make the income they claim.When really on 5% or less make any profit. It is obvious to me the reason they don’t share that they are the income source even though as you stated all the qualifications to earn that 2-3000 per month based on Team system qualifications with the exception of the #5. This becomes very obvious what the “buisness opprotunity” really is!!!!! And I might add extremely deceptive! And yet still in the end no-one owns their own business they can take it away any time they choose to regardless of any explantion!!!!!!!! So now readers you should be enlightened!!!!!!!!

  2. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:49 am

    Amthrax,

    FACT: If you go power player every 4 months you are elite, on the Team. That means to do it five times could take you almost 2 years to get to 2-3,000 only, and that would be very rare and very fast, the money you would get wouldn’t even cover your expenses!!! And remember this is assuming all those people stay on system, tickets and product that you bring in, which never happens. This also assumes that no one will quit. We know the attrition rate is horrendous and so you have to build your sand castle again and again and again. We went power player non stop for over 5 years and then had Orrin and co. Steal our $$$ and our teams!!!! Can you imagine how much time and money we lost???????? Take it from me RUN!!! Oh and by the way you have to be reccomended by your upline, so if they do not like you, they now do not have to pay you….. Who in there right mind would work their ass off under this type of deal???? NO ONE!!!! This was not the deal I bought into.

  3. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:53 am

    BUILDING THE COMMUNITY FOR THE TEAM IS THE BUSINESS!!!
    Everyone knows this, and the Team is trying to cover their ass with this nonsense document, and we all know it. Good luck with that one !!!!!

  4. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 9:05 am

    They tried the same thing when we left Quixtar yet our upline Policy Council/ Orrin Woodward and Company told us to go build the business!!!How could we build a business that it is now said wasn’t there???? Also interesting I remember at the same time, there was a guy who was praised all through the Team to have RETIRED FROM HIS JOB, FROM HIS INVOLVMENT/ $$$$ FROM HIS TEAM BUSINESS. He was told by a policy council member to RETIRE FROM HIS JOB so others would believe in the TEAM business. At the time there was no OTHER COMPANY attatched to TEAM for 6 months!!!!!! If i remember right, he even had a big retirement party in front of his team!!! Trust me, we all heard about it.
    HELLO, DO THEY THINK PEOPLE ARE STUPID??????? Explain this to the FTC Orrin. Good luck with that one too.

  5. March 21, 2011 9:11 am

    This is an excellent post Amthrax. I think what really pisses me off about Woodward is the continual exploitation of the uninformed.

    Nobody could be expected to know all this stuff when prospected. I must assume that they do not want people researching TEAM prior to making a decision and there’s some pressure involved after presenting the business opportunity.

    Woodward, Brady, and al those other folks CANNOT and therefore WILL NOT justify and discuss the relative merits and pitfalls of their business with people who are relatively educated about their business practices.

    They are false leaders who are dishonest at best and, in my opinion, their behaviour is borderline criminal.

    I think they know full well that they are skirting pyramid laws and that their “Community Building” MLM would never withstand the scrutiny of the legalities in pyramid laws.

    They have created a false market for themselves, but when open communication is devastating to your business you would have to question the ethics involved.

    I have great friends who lost a lot of money to TEAM after complete dedication and commitment. Woodward and Brady don’t seem to have any desire to answer to their critics.

    If they would come out and address the issues, then at least they create an environment where people just disagreed or misunderstood them.

    As it sits, their silence and lack of desire to engage opposing views tells they are fully aware that they are out of line and just keep hoping people stop talking about it.

    Orrin, quit quoting successful people. You aren’t because you hurt people,and you know you are doing it.

    Reprehensible. I hope he & his folks are held accountable.

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 9:20 am

    Right….Their little memo on saying “quote or explain the 2-3000” because then they would have to have an income disclosure statement!!! a I agree and typical another away to decieve others that they are not the “business opprotunity” but I bet a few of us could prove other wise with our 1099!!!!!

    Team memo: “However, Team is not a business opportunity for any of our Members and a Director will never promote it as such nor will he, she or it allow others to do so.”
    Again~1099’s!

    This is the way it has always been done “behind the scene”, but the curtain and “image of lies” are being ripped right down! I think it is discusting that they expect people to deceive and mislead, but then this would be “their strenght”!

    The Life Training/Team is the “business opprotunity” PERIOD!

    Editors Note: corrected the quote from the TEAM memo.

  7. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 9:21 am

    P.s. If I remember correctly there was some bogus document that the team isn’t a business back then too. How fun watching them try to cover their ass!!! Our upline PC kept telling us to do meetings and keep building, in fact he kept building the business, when Team was the only thing we were involved with!!! LOL. Orrin how do you explain people make way more on tools at a certain point??? We made under @$100,000 and only @30,000 from Quixtar, maybe we should show our 1099 to Amthrax and he can verify for our readers we are telling the truth????

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 9:25 am

    Rocket
    Excellent thanks for explaining and straight forward way!

  9. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 11:21 am

    you mean they brag about there tem checks?????

  10. Dorothy permalink
    March 21, 2011 10:48 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 1:41 pm

    Amthrax
    You are the best!

  12. CloserThanUThink permalink
    March 21, 2011 3:48 pm

    Amthrax – You’re on a roll with these topics! Straight to the truth, nice job!

  13. March 21, 2011 5:42 pm

    When I joined MV/TEAM, I was also lead to believe all of our money would be coming from Monavie. My upline never did tell me about profit-sharing in TEAM, in fact, I thought those guys were one company, for the first month or so until I began to figure things out. I did, however, ask that friend who unfriended me on Facebook if she was making money from TEAM tools and she said no, and she was almost on her leadership leg. I was afraid to ask my upline, though :-s

    About a month or so after I quit, I was wondering why my upline (who was Star 1000 when I left) would be encourage me to stay on system and get the top five books, etc if she wasn’t getting paid. I suppose it got me wondering if it really was brainwashing, then it led me to do more research.

    See, things are so cleverly hidden. A legitimate business doesn’t have to hide anything or “omit” anything during presentation.

    I don’t understand…why was I so scared to ask my upline stuff? Maybe it’s because of her intimidating personality? Or because her upline put me in my place? I don’t know, I just wish I was told the honest truth up front.

    Sheesh, so much stuff is coming back to me….

  14. webelieved permalink
    March 21, 2011 6:02 pm

    …”Team’s Director Compensation Plan …… as a Director he, she, or it can be paid for his, her, or its service to Team. However, Team is not a business opportunity” ……
    Does it seem humorous to anyone that these statements are all together in the same paragraph???

    Team’s Compensation plan…. is not a business opportunity…HUH????
    This just gets better everyday. LOL What are they trying to HIDE??? Perhaps they are not legally allowed to tell people up front about the tool business. This seems to be a cover up. Do we have an attorney that can comment??

  15. Dorothy permalink
    March 21, 2011 5:56 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  16. Truth permalink
    March 21, 2011 8:29 pm

    You are addressing some outdated information.

  17. March 21, 2011 9:51 pm

    Great. Would you care to provide us with updated information so we can correct and/or discuss?

    Though, if I may be snarky for a moment, given the rate at which TEAM “updates” or “revises” its tools, it’s no surprise you might say that this compensation information is also outdated.

  18. March 21, 2011 11:01 pm

    Yes, they do change things and frequently, so good luck to us all trying to keep up with that. Even as active profit sharers, we could not keep up with the changes (if we even knew about them.) PC makes the rules up as they go along. Taking and shifting people’s profit sharing as they please. I would love to see where that is stated in any of their contracts that they made people sign over the years.

    Another point, which you highlighted previously Amthrax is the ILLUSIVENESS with Team. These are all important topics (updated or not, TRUTH), people should be asking these questions and seeking to understand exactly how the inner dealings and circles work and operate at team.

    Any potential team prospects reading this right now while doing your research? Ask these tough questions to your new upline pc member that is trying to get you in their business.

    Why do we need tools? Who makes money off of these tools? Where can I see an income disclosure statement or details on what I need to do in order to become a profit sharer? Is Monavie the income opportunity or is Team? Where can I make the most money? Where does the PC members make most of their money? Why does Team teach people how to build monavie with their tools? Why shouldn’t I just use the tools, training and promotional materials that Monavie provides?

    These are all good questions to ask yourself before you join NEW GUY/GAL.

    Oh, two more questions:

    One, where is the updated income disclosure statement for Monavie?

    Two, (while talking to the person that got contacted you) How much money are you making, how much effort did it take and how long have you been at it? (ok, that was a few more questions….but still important questions to ask)

    Listen to your gut! It will not lie to you.

  19. webelieved permalink
    March 22, 2011 6:18 am

    We know TEAM uses the “change the contract/info whenever they want program”, but Amthrax do you have the date or month the paragraph was written?? Like Will said it probably has changed, since that is the name of the game. By the way Will great questions to ask. I also would add ask for printed documentation, do not just take someone’s word. Even though it will not matter as obviously the Team/Orrin/PC/Leaders Word/contracts are not worth the paper they are written on!!!

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 6:52 am

    I would be curious what the new and updated one says also.

    I wonder when it changed?
    Yesterday, after it showed up on Amthrax site, LOL!

    @Will great questions, I would send them right to the FTC to get their questions answered because we all know the standard answers that they will give.

    Newbie askes: How is the money made,and do you make any off the ‘tools’?
    Teamer: There is alot of money to be made, Did you say you wanted to bring your wife home from work? Ok good lets book that house meeting and get started on all your friends-n-family! LOL

    Newbie askes: Why do we need these (cd’s & books and seminars and open meetings, and Majors) the ‘system’, just seems I’m paying alot of money out for the same information, Do I really need all this? How do I make money exactly?
    Teamer: Well we are in the business of changing people’s L.I.F.E. one person and a time, we are changing the culture! The ‘system’ is optional, BUT SO IS YOUR SUCCESS!” Now, who can we call off your list right now, I’m excited for you to bring your wife home from work! Just think you and your wife will be walking the beaches of the world with a whole bunch of leaders that have brought their wifes home too!
    Let’s get you to power player, then maybe I can get you some time with the GURU!LOL
    Here’s a seminar and or major ticket, ALL YOUR QUESTIONS, will be answered there!
    Can’t wait til your wife doesn’t have to go to work and can be a stay at home mom!

    WARNING; to EVERY NEW PERSON, JUST GETTING STARTED.
    What they say to you is totally scripted, everyone of your questions have a standard answer, they say the same thing to every single person, to get you to STOP asking questions to keep you in the ‘performance’ mode and get you to that first open, seminar or major. Then they think you will be hooked.
    Ever wonder why everyone is so nice, well this is not normal and is done intentionally, it is what I just read yesterday that the Jim Jones “People’s Temple” did. Everything I have read so far it is pretty standard for cults.
    It is called “Love-bombing.”

  21. March 22, 2011 8:51 am

    The TEAM memo that I quoted in the post was sent on February 24, 2011. So, pretty recent.

  22. March 22, 2011 8:51 am

    I updated the post with the date on which the memo was sent, February 24, 2011.

  23. webelieved permalink
    March 22, 2011 9:13 am

    WOW !!!!!!!! I guessed it would be recent, but that is less than 4 weeks ago, less than a month ago!!!! LOL That is pretty telling don’t you think! Anyone got the rules for directors, the whole rule book would be interesting to see?? Thanks Amthrax, I hope whoever you got that director info from keeps shedding light on all this hidden information!!!!!!! 🙂 🙂
    ******* Send them a big thank you from me!!!!*******

  24. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 9:32 am

    February 24, 2011 is outdated? I have milk in my fridge older than that. How often does it change?

  25. webelieved permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:04 am

    Milk!!! LOL LOL You are hiolarious TOD. Pretty funny this all is. Discusting really….. Outdated???HAHAHAHAH

  26. switch permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:04 am

    *****FLASHBACK*****

    Geez speak, I just saw a bunch of…. what looked like zombies starring at me after that last post of yours.

    It wasn’t so much the looks on their faces but more of the white shirts and red ties coming straight at ya.

    Intimidating…..

  27. March 22, 2011 10:05 am

    My guess is that @Truth is trying to change the subject by not focusing on the facts or the analysis.

  28. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:27 am

    Wonder where he learned that from? Probably a contacting CD. Deflect, distract, deceive. Sorry Truth, it’s like trying to give a haircut over the internet.

  29. March 22, 2011 10:28 am

    Hi, When time permits, I would like to add my two cents to this conversation.

    In the meantime, I would like to highlight my observation about something… when TEAM says the business is MonaVie, some of you say that it is a “lie”, because the main business is the TEAM.

    When TEAM says that TEAM is the business (did I not read recently how some of you thought that TEAM itself is the business opportunity?), you say that it is ALSO a “lie”, since the real business is MonaVie.

    Can you have your cake and eat it too? Can you be FAIR instead?… whether TEAM says A or B, TEAM is always “wrong”, it seems.

    For the record, TEAM has been VERY honest about tools income for a long time. Read “The Complimentary Business Concept” section in your “Commerce Through Community” book (Thirteenth Edition, December 2008) – it is right there in Chapter 11, page 126.

    Let me quote to you, “The high net worth of sports figures such as Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods does NOT come predominantly from their winnings or team salaries, but rather from their “business within a business” or “complementary business” concept. While, unquestionably, basketball and golf, respectively, are their main businesses, each of these gentlemen make SIGNIFICANTLY MORE money annually from endorsements, advertising, clothing lines, interviews and appearances.” (emphasis mine)

    TEAM leaders making more money from TEAM? Yup, it is right up there!

    Yet for the record again, let me quote to you Page 122 from the OLD “Leading The Consumer Rebellion” book (Eleventh Edition, February 2007), “While the purpose of our training system is to support the underlying business of our business owners, it is important to note that there are profits within the training system as well (much like a car dealership has profits in the sale of cars but also in parts and service) and that some business owners affiliated with the Team SHARE IN THESE PROFITS.” (emphasis mine)

    If the above two VERY, VERY CLEAR paragraphs are not downright HONEST, I do not know what is.

    I hope to hear some just and balanced voices based on the evidence I presented.

  30. March 22, 2011 10:32 am

    It definitely does contradict itself in that paragraph.

  31. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:34 am

    Where does a car dealership make most of their money? Parts? Service? Car Sales?
    Think before you answer.

  32. March 22, 2011 10:34 am

    p/s. Did you guys notice that the Legacy Business Group website is now changed, and it looks almost like a motivational training website devoid of their original emphasis on MonaVie products? I have a hunch that some of the anti-TEAM people here left Team but are/were in LBG… hence the VERY old experiences with Team, and tired attacks.

  33. March 22, 2011 10:39 am

    TOD, good question. The main point is that Team Leaders do make money from Team, and it is stated openly. The Team income may be more, hence the mention of Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods, or LESS, as in the example of the car dealership and its complementary “parts/service/resale” businesses. I know you are a fair person, I only wished that the other chaps here would be more like you. Fair and moderate.

  34. webelieved permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:43 am

    HAHAHAH Rykel you are very FUNNY!!!!! Wrong but FUNNY for sure!!!! Nice try though!!

  35. March 22, 2011 10:47 am

    @Rykel – I must ask these two questions:

    1. What were the first publish dates for “Leading the Consumer Rebellion” and “The Complimentary Business”
    2. Why are we now on the 13th and 11th editions of these two books?

    According to this Amazon link, the “Leading the Consumer Rebellion” was first published in 2004. So, in seven years, we’ve had thirteen editions of the book? Doesn’t that seem a little excessive, even to you? Regarding “The Complimentary Business” I found this archived article that provides a cogent rebuttal to Woodward’s arguments.

    Indeed, the only meaningful aspect of Mr. Woodward’s “Complementary Businesses” essay is the implicit admission that most of the TOD’s income (like the theatre and Michael Jordan) is in the complimentary business. In the case of TOD, that complimentary business is the motivational tools business.

  36. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 10:55 am

    The answer is irrelevant. This is a total apples and oranges scenario. What car dealer is recruiting other people to run a dealership. Regardless of which part makes more money. Same with MJ or Tiger.

  37. March 22, 2011 11:00 am

    There’s another reply that I got from my upline and her upline regarding the “Why do we need books/CDs/meetings?” question. It’s to learn directly how the business work. For example with MacDonald’s you go to the school that teaches you about the MacD’s business, right? You wouldn’t go to other resources to learn about MacD’s would you? (New guy’s answer – no) Exactly! You wouldn’t be able to learn about TEAM outside of TEAM’s materials.

    This sounds so sophisticated and “makes sense” to the new guy. Made sense to me…until I was steeped into it and not money!

  38. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 11:02 am

    Amthrax explains it the same way above.

  39. March 22, 2011 11:08 am

    Okay, I’m going to sound like some robot now with my famous “A Legitimate Site” comment, but well…*blush* A legitimate site won’t change rules like that every freaking month! It makes the business very unstable and leaves people hanging in limbo.

  40. March 22, 2011 11:15 am

    But Rykel, why is the income from MV implied more when recruiting prospects at first, then? Isn’t that misleading?

  41. March 22, 2011 11:16 am

    If everyone had your logic TOD. It should be so simple.

  42. TOD permalink
    March 22, 2011 11:19 am

    I don’t know where Tiger makes most of his money from, but I have a good idea where a big portion of it went. (Hint: she used to be a model)

  43. March 22, 2011 12:58 pm

    Just thought I’d drop in a note about why there’s no “System Income Disclosure Statement that’s handed out when showing the plan”

    Doing so would almost certainly be illegal. Promoting separate, additional payments/contracts in order to induce someone to sign a contract is generally considered an illegal enticement. There’s been a lot of case law, and indeed specific laws, about this in insurance sales, loans industries, and education so there’s no reason to expect it wouldn’t apply with MLM/direct sales either.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 2:23 pm

    Sorry for the visual, Switch. LOL!!!

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 2:32 pm

    TOD
    LOL!

    Wow, things must be changing at the speed of light, them Teamers are going to have to be FLEXIBLE and adopt the need for speed in order to keep up!
    Seems like, a dog just chasing his own tail!

  46. Joecool permalink
    March 22, 2011 3:18 pm

    Yet the leaders apparently use tool income to attain and show off material wealth that prospects can allegedly also attain if they use the system. Secondarily, the income disclosure statements still aren’t handed out AFTER a prospect signs up.

  47. switch permalink
    March 22, 2011 7:55 pm

    Yeah, it’s poured on like some extra bonus besides the bullshit health claims that come with the juice.

    “oh yeah, I forgot to tell you that you can get paid from team also.” (this is weeks after, if not months.)

    What a great deal.

  48. Crystal permalink
    March 22, 2011 8:55 pm

    Someone told me “Rykel from Singapore” is REALLY someone we ALL know and perhaps someone who we constantly chat about. My source is very reliable. Read his comments again and contrast his language and flow of words against ‘someones’ blog… you’ll see he similarities.

  49. March 22, 2011 9:22 pm

    Of course there are similarities between Rykel and Orrin’s writings; it’s because Rykel looks up to Orrin as his mentor and leader. Of course, he’s going to copy his mannerisms and writing style.

  50. Speak Your Truth permalink
    March 22, 2011 9:28 pm

    @Crystal
    Thanks for your comments.

    REALLY? I would have never guessed, but I do believe you! I also know from a very reliable source that Orrin has been reading Amthrax’s blog and others for a very long time.
    If you want to know how well he likes his critics, you would just have to remember back when he sued Scott Larsen.

    Crystal you could check with your source on the anonymous blogging smear campaign too, that Quixtar had a lawsuit against them, that would really being enlightening and validate what you already probably know.

  51. March 23, 2011 5:42 am

    In TEAM, everyone thinks and acts the same. Freaky.

  52. March 23, 2011 8:43 am

    I am seriously amused by the “Rykel is Orrin in a disguise” allegation! LOL

    OK it is 11pm here in Asia, and I look forward to more Twilight Zone episodes from some of you guys. Good night! 🙂

    p/s. I have pictures of Orrin AND me, and no, I did NOT doctor them with Photoshop. haha

  53. March 23, 2011 2:56 pm

    Both of you in red ties?

  54. Jackson permalink
    March 24, 2011 8:38 am

    I found this site to be more truthful than anything I was told by my upline. The major red flag for me was the fact that they purposely withhold info and wanted me to do the same to my friends and family as i show them “The Plan” .

  55. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    March 25, 2011 9:32 am

    Right on!!!

  56. aurora permalink
    March 25, 2011 11:20 am

    Good gravy! Do ambots still wear that ridiculous 1960’s attire? Blue suits, white shirts, red ties? Gads, we had that in wwdb. in 1995. God help the woman who wasn’t in nylons and skirts/dresses.

    That’s gonna work with the ‘Snookie’ generation, all righty!

  57. Danny permalink
    April 9, 2011 9:21 pm

    I’m commenting because I almost got sucked in, but I suspect the person who tried to recruit me is a little clueless. Either that, or he really has no problem lying to my face.

    A month ago I was told about TEAM by someone I had just met. We got into a discussion about the book “Cashflow Quadrant” and he really seemed like he knew what he was talking about. I already knew about all that he was telling me and have been applying it to my life to generate passive income. I understand these concepts very well.

    He told me he was a “financial advisor” and then showed me what he goes over with his “clients.” I had no idea this was something given to him by TEAM. He really presented himself to be something else. So we began our discussion. And he “showed me the plan.”

    I didn’t get it at first. But he was talking about “profit sharing” and the “depth model” rather than “width model” and I understood the value in profit sharing. All his info was right on, accurate, and it seemed to me at first that Orrin and Chris had come up with a system (TEAM) to make a broken system (MLM, Quixstar, Amway) work.

    But I had no idea it had anything to do with Monavie. After a few meetings of discussing Leadership and this and that I thought he was in some networking group that developed leaders. He started loaning me books and CDs and it was nothing new to me at all. I wasn’t overly impressed but I thought hey, this is all great information, I’m curious now. But he still presented himself as someone who is working with a team of people whose purpose is to develop leaders. I had NO idea it was MLM!

    He kept telling me that I need to go hear his mentor speak and I wanted to at the time. But he presented it as if it was some speaking engagement. Little did I know it was a house meeting where they gather people, do a vague and misleading sales pitch and request their money to join.

    All the while I couldn’t understand where MY profit would come from if we didn’t sell product to people. All he would tell me was that it came from “profit sharing” and “self-consumption.” OK great, but how does having 10 people on my taproot self consuming juice that returns a 5% profit give me income? He dodged my questions and answered them with questions JUST LIKE THE TEAM BUILDER’S TEXTBOOK TELLS THEM TO. (He lent me that book, too – not a smart move).

    I totally get the value of Monavie, acai berry, glucosamine, etc. You don’t have to sell me on that. You don’t even have to sell me on leadership – I get it. But how was this a business?

    It seems to me that TEAM preys on people with the idea of “owning your own business” to “stop trading time for money” – which we all want to do – yet when you are working for TEAM, you are trading time for money, you don’t really own your own business, and you have to spend 90% of your time running around to meetings that are all the same and… for what?

    What are they building leaders for? The materials teach you how to build TEAM teams… and get them to see the value in leadership and buying tools. I don’t get it!

    He never once told me EVER that in order to make money at this I need to be on autoship for Monavie for $200/month, and that he would need to place bulk orders through me in order to generate more pv (what the hell is ‘pv’ anyway?) and money. I still don’t get it.

    Doesn’t add up.

    Each time I asked where my profit would come from he deflected it with another question or off-topic answer or comment.

    He actually gave me the “Team Builder’s Textbook” to read, and I immediately got their scheme. Canned answers and instructions for every consideration you could possibly have thrown at you. They tell you to lie to people, avoid answering questions and just get them to the meetings and show the plan and keep showing it.

    He told me that he makes $2,000/month doing this, and he’s been doing it for 2 years. I could increase my income by that much or more just by taking on 1 extra client per month. Why would I want to spend 2-5 years building this business, spending $100’s a month just to get $2k/month?

    He INSISTED that ALL of the profits we would earn come directly from Monavie. That being “on system” just costs $100/month, and there is nothing else you need to buy to make money.

    But that doesn’t add up with all the ex TEAM members who are posting here who say that to make money you have to do more than that. And I don’t believe him – I believe the people here.

    Maybe he’s misled himself… and he hasn’t really been active enough to know that making money requires being a “power player” which requires purchasing 5-8 cds per week and 2 books per month on autoship plus buying all the other junk and all the seminars, etc.

    But what really gets me is the outright misrepresentation!!!!!!!!

    **He told me that TEAM does not sell products to people.
    Then how is this an MLM? Where do I make a profit?

    **He told me that TEAM’s model is SELF CONSUMPTION.
    But I don’t want to drink over priced juice.

    **He told me that TEAM never requires having inventory on hand to push.
    But why did he want to order 10 cases of Monavie through me? I sure as hell won’t drink it.

    **He told me that the profits come from “profit sharing” in Monavie
    But why would I want to spend $200/month just to earn 5% of my own purchase back?

    **He told me that being “on system” meant simply that you are “utilizing the leadership training tools”
    But he never told me that I had to pay for them and subscribe to them monthly until I squeezed it out of him.

    **The house meeting said it cost just $189 to start
    But when they handed me the sign up sheet, it was to be a Monavie distributor, and order 1 case a month on autoship. They never said I was going to be a Monavie distributor. What the f–k?

    **He told me that all the profits come from Monavie
    But how is that even possible if we don’t sell it to people? Do I drink myself to death? Use it to brush my teeth with? Bathe my cat with juice? Find 101 other uses for it?

    If we all share in the profits, then why does it matter who gets in first if there are no “levels?”

    I just don’t get it at all. I still don’t.

    How can someone just lie to my face like that? And expect me to see them in full integrity?

    Does that happen to other people, too? Where they outright LIE?

    Here’s what I see –

    Orrin and Chris worked for Quixtar and decided to start their own company just like it, so that they could be on the top. They found a DIFFERENT acai berry juice company to partner with and push, so that it at least SEEMS legit to people and they push their leadership bullcrap on everyone as their main business. Why even use Monavie?

    I am so confused. And no one has answers. Needless to say I am not joining!!!

  58. April 10, 2011 9:23 am

    Great comment. I don’t think you’re confused at all. In fact, I think you’ve nailed down exactly the deception taught by TEAM.

  59. switch permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:00 am

    Well Danny, try asking that teamer who tried his “FIRED UP” pitch to tell you about Woodturd’s legal problems with Amway/Quixtar. See what he says. That should tell you…..if he’s has absolutely no clue, I would consider him a con artist set up by another con artist that’s following the team regime. If his face gets beat red, and is speechless, he’s been caught in a lie like my infamous “mentor” was.

    Definition of a con man-
    A con artist, or a person who uses a fraud method known as a confidence trick
    \
    Ironic how they tell you that it’s just a matter of getting your confidence up when showing the “plan”.

  60. Jackson permalink
    April 10, 2011 12:06 pm

    Danny, you are not confused…..i got out of it for that reason alone,i couldn’t see myself showing this plan to people I love knowing that I would be purposely misleading them when I have no idea how I were to make money myself. That in addition to my upline lying to me about everything…..the worse part about that is I think it’s a lot of good people involved who are misled

  61. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 12:12 pm

    Danny
    Congradulations! You have a lot more figured out than you are giving yourself credit for.

    The DECEPTION~ ‘recruiting techniques’ is exactly how they learn to do it.
    The ‘financial advisor’ ‘client’? OMg, what kind of credentials do they have? This must be a new deceptive practice they are being taught to use!

    Your statement:” at first that Orrin and Chris had come up with a system (TEAM) to make a broken system (MLM, Quixstar, Amway) work.”

    Orrin Woodward became an Amway distributor back in the early 90’s (93, I believe). Dexter Yager started the ‘system’ with Amway and Orrin broke off in 1999 and took that very ‘system’ and changed up a few things over time. It then became his money making multi-million dollar scam. But the changes they made to that “Yager system” are so miniscule that it’s hardly noticable. They changed their/ the TEAM’s ‘profit-sharing formula’ to pay a little more than the Yager System. So the ‘profit-sharing’ comes from the Team System~(Cd’s, Books, Men’s & Women’s leadership ?, Seminars, Majors, Speaking (they pay the speakers).

    The ‘juice commissions’ are seperate (profit-sharing?) come from SELF CONSUMTION~ would these both not be an illegal pyramid scheme then if there are no customers? Read the Forbes Article on Orrin.

    This is classic on how they opperate, the avoiding questions, answering questions with a question, so you STOP asking.
    Yes the system conditions you to lie and you begin to think it is good sales-skills.
    They try and confuse you on purpose. Because if you find out the real truth~NO ONE would get started!

    “They never said I was going to be a Monavie distributor.”

    This is exactly how they built Amway too, they would never tell you that until you were actually signing the registration, then it became obvious!

    If the ‘guy’ that showed you the plan is making 2000 per month as he told you then he knows damn well about the money that is made off the ‘system’! Did he share his expenses that it took to make that (taxes?) Or How much is he keeping?

    It’s stories like your’s that keep me coming back! Your critical thinking is working and glad you figured this out before you LOST a whole lot more than $$. As switch says read the lawsuits, the Forbes Article on Orrin/Team and FTC on what is required of them. I would love to see someone ask for all that information and make them provide it!

    Also, if you could let us know what you get for that $189?

    AMTHRAX~ I think this would be a great post to put at the Top, for how they use the Deception process to try and get someone started!

  62. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 12:25 pm

    Danny
    The 10 cases~ READ the inventory loading comments, those that experience this explain it on here! I pretty sure it is under the ‘EX-TEAM’ members post.

  63. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 12:34 pm

    Jackson
    You are so right the gradual indoctrination/information from credible sources like John Maxwell, top 5 books, and tons of others gets those good people to be misled. It is so obvious that they are a illegal pyramid scheme when they tell you it is ‘SELF CONSUMTION’ without any customers!
    I wish SOMEONE would investigate them!

  64. humiliated permalink
    April 10, 2011 12:42 pm

    I agree with Amthrax Danny.You nailed it.

    You mention that you don’t need to be convinced on acai, Monavie & glucosamine but I think that if you check out the Juice Scam site, you will see that TEAM is merely a scam on top of another scam (Monavie). There are so many lies perpetrated from the distributors (starting from Monavie Corporate) about the content & nutitional value of the juice, it is downright dangerous. Don’t get me started on the bastardization of religious principles which is the foundation on which both of these “companies” (ahem) are built and how they use religious guilt to keep their victims as emotional prisoners.

    Lives have been destroyed by those involved in Monavie or Team or both and I will tell anyone who asks to stay the hell away from these cults.

  65. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:09 pm

    Danny I appreciate you sharing. Sounds like you have much clearer thinking that the guy that showed you the plan. If the guy you talk of is truly making 2,000 a month, then besides getting paid from MonaVie, he is also most likely getting paid $$$$ from Team profit sharing for selling cd’s,dvd’s, books and seminar tickets to his downline. It seems this can pay more than the juice itself.

    “**He told me that TEAM never requires having inventory on hand to push.
    But why did he want to order 10 cases of Monavie through me? I sure as hell won’t drink it”.-Danny

    I find it interesting Amthrax had a article on Team approach volume/volume loading that claimed Team is teaching exactly what you said here. Thanks for confirming it! Team leaders are placing bulk purchases through the new guys # to help themselves and others hit new MonaVie pin levels. I was wondering did anyone offer you some money/cash back to commit to going on Team system, and to do the bulk order ????? If so , how much???
    Amthrax could you post the article link for Danny I cannot find it. Thanks.

  66. Jackson permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:20 pm

    The question I ask myself is what business would purposely not tell new members about where they make money from…thats not an ethical partnership and I’m not here to bash team but any organization run this way is deceptive. I hated the fact that I had to completely blow up at my upline to get any info, which I later found too be false. One other thing: the people I know who have been In for years never have time to spend with their kids, makes me wonder at which point are you

  67. Jackson permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:21 pm

    Actually free as promised?

  68. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:48 pm

    It bothers me greatly that they throw a lot of religious bible stuff in their speeches and books. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against religion. The bible is a great fictional book with lots of cool stories inside. And Joel Osteen is one of my favorite authors – but I am ZERO percent Christian, not interested at all in it… but his message is very powerful. There are many authors like that who take the high road with their faith and can still get a great message out to people and they can receive it well.

    But Orrin and Chris seem to toss religion in NOT as their personal experience (“Jesus saved my life and this is what I’ve accomplished and how I’ve grown because of it”) but rather telling people how it is for them (“This is what Jesus wants for YOU, so you need to do it.”)

    Huge difference! And a disgusting one at that.

    My recruiter is NOT making $2,000/month. When I first met him, before he approached me about the “business” he told me he was still living at home at age 28 because he couldn’t afford his own apartment and he wanted to marry his girlfriend and “bring her home” (as they say in TEAM).

    Then as he started sharing the “business” with me just 1 week later, he told me that he has been with TEAM for 2 years but is not making any money with them and he blamed himself. He said he’s been screwing around and not working hard enough. I thought oh that sounds like someone with integrity and accountability.

    But then just 2 weeks later when I brought a friend with me to the only house meeting I went to, my recruiter told my friend he was making $2,000/month! BOLD FACED LIE. Where’s the integrity now?

    Normally I do look to the individual and say hey, if you’re not making any money in your business venture it is your fault. But that only works when the actual system works. With TEAM I have to say that no one is at fault for not making it work for them because it’s stacked against them from the start!

    What else bothers me? They split up the groups by men and women. What? I work better in groups with women. The men drive me insane. I don’t care about “bringing my wife home” I don’t have a wife. I don’t identify with these men. At all. So why should I waste my time and money going to meetings to talk to them.. about what?

    My recruiter actually made a comment to me that made me wonder what brainwashed bible camp he went to as a child, and it made me think, wow, if he knew anything about me he’d have so much judgment against me it would be ridiculous. He talked about his mentor and told me, “yeah, man, before Chris came to TEAM, he had a full beard an earrings!!!!! Now look what TEAM has done for him!”

    O.o

    Why is it that all these people are so religious and trying to keep men and women in different spaces?

    Another thing I don’t get is that my recruiter told my buddy that once he joins TEAM he can CUT OFF all of his mentors and coaches that he has currently (who are high level highly sought after coaches who provide unbeatable value) and he told my friend he can get ALL of that mentorship from one man – for free – the man who used to have earrings.

    Seems a little like they view their upline as godly.

    I admit, when I first read the stuff on this site I thought, no way! That can’t be. Naysayers…

    But when TEAM told me 2+2=7.4 I stayed even more open to the possibility that this was an even bigger scam than I thought. Sure enough, it is!

  69. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:48 pm

    You’re right, you’re not free with TEAM. If you have to spend any time at all going to meetings and doing all of this bullshit – that’s not freedom, that’s slavery to your own business.

    Business my ass. This isn’t a business.

  70. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 1:57 pm

    I never paid a cent to them. I had them “hold my spot” while I did more research but they never got that money out of me.

    At sign up, you can get 1 case or 2 cases. Here is the info on getting 1 case of Monavie:

    $39 Registration Fee
    $130 Case (10% Shipping 13)
    $59 Year of Free Shipping

    TOTALS:
    $228 with the free shipping option
    $182 without free shipping

    So all you get for $182 is 1 case of Monavie.

    But in the 2 case option they call it a “LEADERSHIP PACK” and in this “LEADERSHIP PACK” you get 2 cases of Monavie and then a bunch of other individual Monavie flavors or whatever the other versions are.

    What doesn’t make sense is that even if I pay $59 to get a year full of free shipping I still have to pay 10% of my order for the first order.

    They offer this free shipping thing so that they can PUSH MASSIVE CASES through the new members. You can only get free shipping when you first sign up, so they push you to get it. And YES they WILL PAY YOU for getting the free shipping option and they WILL PAY YOU for ordering the bulk.

  71. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 2:04 pm

    I have to add also that I have been losing a lot of weight lately, I found something that works great for me. And everyone else who uses it. I’m not looking to debate the authenticity of it here so if anyone wants to talk about it or ask me about it just let me know and I can email you. It’s not TEAM related so that’s why I say that.

    But the point is that I’m losing 1-2lbs/day and have already lost 23lbs in 20 days and it’s all from the abnormal fat deposits in my body. No muscle mass lost. All fat. Stomach, thighs. And it’s NOT a drug, and I’m NOT starving myself. So when my recruiter found out about my progress, he immediately said “you need to get on the RVL program” and I’m thinking, ok? WTF is that?

    So I did some research and found out that it was a MONAVIE “weight loss” program. WTF, BBQ? Are you serious? No, no and no!!!!!

    One thing I’ve learned early on in life is to stay away from anyone claiming to have all the answers and that their products and services and experiences and ideas are better than everyone ele’s… I DOUBT monavie will help me lose weight in a healthy way. In fact I know it won’t.

    First, he tells me that the leadership program inside TEAM is better than Landmark’s leadership program (another one of his lies) and then he tells me that i should use monavie to lose weight and abandon the protocol I’m using that works wonders (another one of his lies) it’s like he’s just there to sell me on his crap at every turn!

    I’m sorry but I like to empower people to think for themselves! Make their own decisions! And acknowledge them for their accomplishments, not POO-POO what they’re doing to get results and then try to swindle them over to my systems just so I can make money off of them. Screw that!!!

    This company needs to be taken down.

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 4:00 pm

    Danny
    That is hilarious! The $59 + 10%(first order)! How is that free again?
    I agree that would be (in there eyes) ‘working the system’ no different to me than those that manipulate any other system (welfare, insurance etc.)
    Inventory loading is against MV policy but yet they do it anyway, again no different than what they did in Amway!
    I don’t know if you read the ‘Sling, Squeeze, & Side Action” post but by you telling them to ‘hold your spot’ “Team Approach”, they would have USED you as a YES and who knows how many went above you? You never got started anyway but they would just tell others you backed out and continued on.
    It would be funny to ask ‘your recruiter’ how many they got in above you because you told them to ‘hold your spot’, LOL The face expression would be priceless!

  73. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 4:52 pm

    Seriously, I can’t even figure out why I pay $60/year to get free shipping on future orders – I guess it would save THE REST OF THE TEAM MONEY when they LOAD their inventory through me… but will it save me anything? Nahhhhhh.

    Yeah haha I read that post. I know those games so well!!!! Oh boy. He did pull that on me, too. He said, “hey I have 2 more people going in tonight, do you want me to put you through so you can get in before them?” And I said nah, I’m waiting… I was really doing more research.

    I don’t get it. Why does it matter who gets on the team first, if we all profit share? Can someone explain that to me?

  74. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:05 pm

    Jackson, that is part of the lie, you are never free. Leaders look good on the outside but trust me they are working a very time consuming job, that will never end. Leaders are leaving their families 6 days a week, one or more weekends a month, If they are speaking, leaving much more and when they are not home the phone is ringing. Selling tools, mentoring others. Even fun is work because it is usually a promotion for your team. Work, work and work. It is not a btype business at all. And you don’t own it , they can take your money and teams whenever they dam well please. THERE IS NO PROTECTION FOR THE DISTRIBUTOR.

  75. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:08 pm

    I think the funniest part of this all is that it isn’t a B-type business for anyone but Orrin and Chris!
    Well said whoever pointed that out up there. It is NOT a B-type business, EVER! It never will be!

  76. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:08 pm

    It matters because you get paid more, the more people you have buying.
    Atleast that is the way it is suppose to work. MV volume works that way.
    Team Profit-sharing ( paid seperately from Signature Management Team) that worked the same sorta but it used to be based on how many teams you had and the balance. So example; you might 50 system in 1st team, 50 system in 2nd team, and 25 system in 3rd and you would be a Round Table and paid on those numbers. Don’t ask how, we don’t know and they won’t tell you either!
    Did they explain to you about becoming a “Director”? That is the first level you get paid in the Team Profit-sharing (system income)?

  77. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:12 pm

    Ohhh ok. It’s kind of making sense to me now. But not really.

    So I got recruited by Sam. And I would be on Sam’s team in his taproot leg. But if he’s gathering other people to join his team as well, wouldn’t they be in his taproot leg as well? Doesn’t everyone on the same team profit share? They told me there were no levels. No one under me except if I personally create my own team.

    I don’t even understand and it is making my head hurt.

    They didn’t even mention director! They said all profits come from Monavie self consumption. So the way I figured it worked was you build a bunch of self consuming teams and you get 5% of everyone from every team you build so all you have to do is convince people to buy Monavie for themselves. That wasn’t in line with my values to start with, but that seemed logical and legit for a business. HAHA! So not the truth.

  78. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:14 pm

    ” And YES they WILL PAY YOU for getting the free shipping option and they WILL PAY YOU for ordering the bulk.”- Danny

    Hey how much are they paying and how do they explain it to you??? A credible source said it was over $100?

  79. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:15 pm

    Boy the WILL PAY YOU~ wonder if Monavie knows this one too. Hmm…
    Very interesting and how much do they pay? Do they pay the $59 dollars and your 10%? Did they offer you money to get on system too?

  80. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:21 pm

    Danny
    They are LYING to you, THERE ARE LEVELS, you don’t even get paid from the juice company until you have a second team gets started and you hit the first level of star, then star 500 ( means your pv (points) + others=500 pv or points.

    “Team~Leadership” There are also levels in the Team Profit-Sharing (system0 that you have to have so many people in your team on system to get paid from them.

  81. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:22 pm

    Danny, there are levels for sure. If you do not have two teams you will not get paid by mv or team. Also the profit sharing from team marketing tools doesn’t go to everyone on your team. Only those with two larger teams can possibly get it. Whoever told you these things is lying or misinformed for sure. Although looks like from article above TEAM is trying to hide the income opportunity that TEAM clearly is.

  82. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:26 pm

    It’s a scam where the only one who makes money is the Policy Counsel!
    Even at Round Table the income looks good until the end of the year!

  83. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 7:33 pm

    Danny
    The term ‘profit-sharing’ is only used on the Team system. That is what they call their pay system.

    When they talk about getting paid from Monavie it is called ‘commission.’

  84. April 10, 2011 8:06 pm

    Hi, Danny, thanks for sharing your experience, and I’m very glad you were able to research the information and THINK FOR YOURSELF! That’s really, really important in researching any MLM business, is they must give you room to think for yourself. I’ve told this on other parts of this blog and I will say this again, that my upline actually told me ***NOT*** to do research on the business because anything outside the business will give me the “wrong information” and who’s better at telling about the business except the business itself? She then compared it to MacDonald’s where you go to their school to learn about the business, you don’t go elsewhere to learn about the business. It is very different in the fact that MacD’s isn’t a MLM business, rather a franchaise business. Monavie/TEAM, is not a franchaise business as they try to pass themselves off to be.

    I only wish I would’ve thought for myself. But after having my upline telling me not to research, just look to the business materials, and after us knowing her for 20 years, and with her being in business for 30 years, I guess I just went on her credibility.

  85. Jackson permalink
    April 10, 2011 8:06 pm

    I had never heard of any levels in team until I quit…i thought team was just one big team. I later learned that they are taught to with hold that info…..i get mad just thinking about all the deception

  86. April 10, 2011 8:17 pm

    Mixing religion and business really hit a sore spot with me. I’m a Messianic Jew, however, we MJ’s believe in the same teachings as mainstream Christianity, but with Biblical feasts, not the main feasts. So I can understand including G-d in all of our lives, etc. But the ***WAY*** they were using religion to push forth their business really made me sick. This is not what I read from the Bible, in fact our Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) was a poor, humble man! Not some rich hauncho dude that swindled people.

    One month I got a BOM that had a Christian book – nothing about business – a CHRISTIAN BOOK about some rockclimbing couple, I just skimmed through the back cover, then tossed it aside. I did NOT pay to have religious literature sent to me, I paid to have business literature sent to me.

    I think they use religion because religion relies on emotions in many people. When you go to those meetings, especially the monthly seminars and the major seminars, you would notice it did have a religious atmosphere to them. When a normal person think of business, they think of business stragedies, Q&A, help in a certain area that people are struggling in, moving people around to accomodate their abilites, etc. When a TEAM bot think of business, they get all religous “G-d Bless!” and “FIRED UP” and evasion and coercion and basic nonsense.

    From now on, if a business has a religious undertone to it, I’m staying clear away. I’ll go to a religous function for a religous education, thank you.

  87. April 10, 2011 8:30 pm

    I’m actually tempted to ask you what this stuff is, but the only problem is, I’m just too cautious and wary…I don’t know, I been burnt too bad, and now my main credit card is being reviewed because of this bloody debt I incurred from MV/TEAM, even thought I have been faithfully paying down the debt’s principle…I’d advise you not to share about your products on a public forum, we’ve all been burnt and it’ll take a long time before we can trust another business.

    Please don’t get me wrong, not all is as evil as Woodward and Co. maybe I”m overreacting…I don’t know….

  88. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 8:54 pm

    Velizabethwhite – I totally understand. I’m on the hCG protocol (Human Chorionic Gonadatropin). Unlike TEAM, I suggest you do the research yourself on everything. And it was only my knowledge of biology and REAL nutrition (not what they teach people in school with 50 year old information) that ever got my attention with this. I researched for 7 months before I chose to try it. Honestly? I’ve never put drugs or pills or any of that junk in my body and I refuse to. The reason I saw this as a safe opportunity is for three reasons:

    1. The food was normal. It was already stuff I liked.
    2. The science made sense and the person who invented this protocol has been doing it for decades
    3. The substance I use has no biological component inside. It is purely the magnetic imprint made in a homeopathic manner. That means it’s purely the signature of hCG. This was important to me because I live a life that I use as much non-chemical or manmade things as possible, and am very much into energy work and the properties of energy. I figured why not?

    😀

  89. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 8:58 pm

    WOW okay so you can’t make money until you have 2 teams?

    Can anyone break this down for me bit by bit so I can see how the money is made? I want to bring it to my recruiter and ask him to tell me if he knows about this or if he’s really just not making any money and therefore clueless.

    So if I get 2 teams, that means I have 30 people all together. And with that, I will get paid from Monavie.

    Then if I have 4 people in each taproot “on system” and 2 people in each other leg “on system” and I, myself am “on system” then I can make money from TEAM TOOLS. And the money I get from the TEAM TOOLS comes from my total of 12 people on my own teams who are “on system”

    ?????

    Is that the basis for all of this??

  90. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 9:12 pm

    All right, so here is the math I just did and please tell me if I’ve got it right. They won’t tell me what percentage of profit I get from any of it, so I’m guessing with 5%.

    There is the possibility to make money from Monavie, AND Tools. But most of it comes from Tools.

    But you can’t make any money off of Monavie or Tools until you have 2 teams. A team is 15 people. 10 in your taproot and 5 in your right leg.

    One you have two teams (30 people total) you then start to earn a % off of all the self-consumption that your 30 team members are purchasing. At 5% that is $8.50 per person x 30 people = $255/month. But you’re paying $190/month for Monavie so at this point for building your 2 teams, your profits are $65/month.

    Then to make more money from the Tools, you get “on system” (I’m using a small $100/month figure here but I know it’s more). Then you have 12 people between your two teams “on system” – and so you begin earning money from all the tools they are buying.

    At 5% that is at the LOWEST figure of $100/month, $5 per person/month. And you’ve got 12 people, so that’s $60/month. So now that you’ve spent all your time and energy getting 12 people “on system” this is what the numbers look like:

    Your Expenses:
    $100/month minimum for Tools
    $190/month for Monavie
    TOTAL EXPENSES: $290/month

    Your Income (based on 2 teams)
    $255/month from your team members purchasing Monavie
    $60/month from your team members purchasing Tools
    TOTAL INCOME: $315/month

    Subtract the expenses from the income and you get a whopping profit of $25/month

    What?????

    So I build teams of 30 people and that’s all I get? What is the real percentage that you get from Monavie and Tools? If it’s not 90% it’s not even anywhere near worth the effort or time!!!

  91. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 9:14 pm

    oooooooh Speak Your Truth, sneaky bastards.

    So they say “we use profit sharing to earn money” while they’re showing you how to get money from Monavie. But “profit sharing” is just the term they use to call their commissions from Tools. But they use it while talking about Monavie so you think you’re profit sharing with Monavie. Do I get it? How crazy!

  92. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 9:18 pm

    Thats insane!

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 9:30 pm

    Yep~You got it, LOL

  94. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 9:51 pm

    Well Danny~ I have been out for a while but it is much grimmer than that from the Team side. I believe to be a DIRECTOR (used to be called a profit-sharer first level);
    Your first team you would have to get 12 people on system (25 tickets too) and 2nd team 12 on system (25 tickets same) this would get your foot in the door to qualify for profit-sharing, if they were a legit about it but some of us know they have gone to a ‘voting by peers’ to even get into that profit-sharing. Which could mean you may or may NOT get paid if you are voted out, I believe they vote every year? That is a great question for your recruiter! Then the levels increase from there as I stated about what it takes to become a RT (round table). You do not get paid 5% in profit-sharing, LOL It was less than 1% when I figured it that we got paid!

    Monavie~ Let’s say you have the ‘ideal’ business: your first team with a 1000 pv-points and your second team 1000 pv-points,(this is called a star 1000) then you would get 10% of your (lesser leg) but in this case they are equal so you would get paid 1000 x 10%= $100 You would get paid for that week only$100 dollars. You would have to repeat this scenario every week to get $400 for that month so it takes 4x the people buying for the whole month~ Ha! You would have to have that many people buying every single week to repeat it!
    You get paid 10% of your lesser leg so it doesn’t matter how big your first team is, you only get the 10% off the ‘lesser’ one. Does this make sense?

  95. Danny permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:02 pm

    Holy moly that is insane. Yeah it makes sense. Wow. What a scam. Why haven’t they been taken down?

    Why do they have a partnership with Monavie now? I don’t get that part.

  96. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:18 pm

    Danny, they have a partnership with mv because they need it to sell their tools. Anyone at Round Table level or higher in the Profit Sharing on tools always made way more in the tool business than the product business. SO MOST OF THE MONEY CAME FROM TOOLS. I believe if they didn’t attatch themselves to a mlm they would probably be considered illegal, also why would anyone have a need to buy thier tools????? Millions were made in cds, books, seminars. The big leaders know this but do not disclose it when showing the plan. In fact they are told not to mention it, as you can see in Amthraxs article. Team left Amway I think because they were going to cut off their tool business.

  97. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:32 pm

    Do not forget the expense of gas, time, money spent on tools, cds you would give out and do not forget the precious time spent away from your family. Your expenses will be much higher a month if you built the “business” (that really isn’t yours). Also the rate at which people quit Team is alarming. You will have to build and replace forever. That is why you never really get your time back, unless you are Orrin or Chris. Watch the leaders, how much time do they really spend with their families???? Not much. You could read Merchants of Deception by Eric Schreibler there is a free download or go to http://www.howcultswork.com or look up commercial cults, that will give you some info to share. Really scary how they decieve and trap people. I am glad you could see the truth. Thanks for sharing.

  98. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:37 pm

    Danny webelived is right that HIDE behind Monavie, just like they did Amway. They desperately need a MLM to convince others to buy there same information they have stolen from all the books they force down on the BOM (book of month). But you can buy these same books from Amazon, Ebay, Library or many other sources for WAY cheeper or free. They know they cannot sell their “Leadership” without an MLM, we all tried that and it was a total failure! They wanted us to sell this ‘guru’ system to business and the like LOL~I am still laughing! There is nothing Guru about it, it is books we all read!

  99. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:49 pm

    I agree Izzy
    This is one of the area’s that really is abused in my opinion and ticks me off because they are not upfront. They bring you, sell you into a ‘Business Opprotunity’ for PROFIT and never tell you about the religious side, until you get to your first Major and your ‘upline will expect to go to ‘church.’
    This is deceiving to people, I have my believes too, but it does not belong in a “business seminar or meeting’ unless you are fully aware that it is what you signed up for! Besides that they don’t even practice what they preach!

  100. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 10:58 pm

    Here is a free copy of Merchants of Deception, happy Reading!
    http://www.transgallaxys.com/~emerald/DOWNLOADBOOK.html Download Merchants of Deception Book free

    This book will give you an idea how the heirarchy on Team works, the profit on tools is set up a bit different in Team now, but you will get the idea anyway. It is a true story about a man an his stint in Amway which is where Team came from.

  101. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 11:03 pm

    Speak , I am suprised nobody has sued TEAM for plagarism, for copying all the phrases etc and selling them. Most talks are just glorified book reports or stolen phrases that make them look good!

  102. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 11:05 pm

    I agree, someday….. LOL Maybe that I will put that in my ‘Dream Circle’!

  103. webelieved permalink
    April 10, 2011 11:14 pm

    Speak, I was thinking the other day, funny how they got me to believe in their dreams. Not my dream. So I chased what I now know is a lie, and gave up years of my time…. when that is all I really wanted. I guess the saying you don’t know what you got till it’s gone is true. I am so glad to be free from TEAM and the half truths/lies. Nothing is worth selling your soul and your life for. Nothing….

  104. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 11:14 pm

    Izzy
    Were you on the ERM book of month?

  105. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 10, 2011 11:16 pm

    Amen!!! We are truly Free from that oppression and lies!

  106. switch permalink
    April 11, 2011 6:36 am

    So, in other words Danny,…..someone is using an over priced fruit punch that’s notorius for spreading illegal claims and testimonies to make a profit and digging themselves out of a hole from the past.

    And don’t let him tell you differently. From the achy joints, sleep deprivation, heart disease cures, and everything in between including famous celebs endorsing the product, he’s filled with 100% BS.

    He has his eye focused on one thing and one thing only……

  107. Danny permalink
    April 11, 2011 12:39 pm

    Yeah he told me that Monavie cured him of his old football injuries… from 10 years of playing, and if he goes off of it he feels bad again. How is that a “cure?” I know it’s just the glucosamine, hell, I can get that in pill form for FAR less than $189/month. He also said it cured his asthma. I don’t think he had asthma to start with – or it’s a lie.

    How can someone claim it’s a cure when it doesn’t actually cure anything but alleviate symptoms?

    Do people really not see that it’s not Monavie, but glucosamine? Do they not see that if they took care of their body in all areas they wouldn’t NEED the Monavie?

  108. switch permalink
    April 11, 2011 12:50 pm

    ….imagine that!

    You should notify him immediately that it’s ILLEGAL to do what he’s doing which is spread his illegal claims and testimonies. Anything health realated into curing ANYTHING is sound proof to get his distributorship revolked from Mona Vie. That’s what he’s doing here which is spreading illegal claims from one person to the other for HIMSELF to hopefully one day become independently wealthy.

    Fire away Danny! 🙂

  109. April 11, 2011 4:36 pm

    Hmm…I try to use all-natural products as well, though the natural household products and vitamins come from an online store, not an autoship. Maybe go to my name and send me a message through there and send me info. Thanks.

  110. humiliated permalink
    April 11, 2011 7:23 pm

    It is a lie Danny. I had signed people up that had asthma and Monavie did nothing for that condition (or high blood pressure or high cholesterol etc). I am very active & I was told that it would take away back and joint pain of which I had “aplenty” and it did absolutely NOTHING for my aches and pains.

    It is amazing how my up-line had convinced themselves that their various ailments were ‘cured’ by Monavie, whereas the people that I had signed up, who didn’t make any sort of profit from Monavie, got absolutely no benefit from it. Funny how that works…or doesn’t…

  111. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 12, 2011 5:44 am

    Don’t forget the element of their own brains “curing” them. It is possible to believe something into actuality. This may explain some peoples relief from symptoms.
    Too bad this approach doesn’t work on making the biz work. And shut up Teamers, don’t give me Brady’s “You only get what you picture.” That doesn’t work either. How can it when the proverbial cheese gets moved on a whim by the gurus whenever they get the urge. Ask we believed. Ask speak your truth. Tell ya what- find the list of former Team Leaders who were profit sharing, round table and PC who all left, and ask them. But you won’t.

  112. Jackson permalink
    April 12, 2011 8:05 am

    I have a serious question for the members who were more experienced in team…Once you qualify for director and above, do you automatically stay at that level? Or do you have to re qualify every month? Once you reach a level, can you lose it if you lose people under you? (nobody would answer this when I was in)

  113. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 12, 2011 8:23 am

    I’ve been out since ’07 so my answer reflects how profit sharing worked back then; which I’m sure hasn’t changed much…
    Your bonus each month was based on your total numbers from each leg the previous month. If your numbers went up in the right ratio then your income did as well. Which of course that meant if your numbers went backwards (and believe me, they definitely did on a regular basis) so did your bonus.

  114. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 12, 2011 9:22 am

    Nothing new about the tool and seminar profits are really the life blood of the “Top Guns”, I think it was back in 1997 when Brig sued Amway and a bunch of his upline over the issue, the case file is a pretty good read BTW.

  115. webelieved permalink
    April 12, 2011 10:35 am

    Jackson, I ditto IQuit. They keep thier status in public, but lose the money in private when the numbers go under the required amount. They of course won’t tell you this. It is the same in mv.

  116. Jackson permalink
    April 12, 2011 11:26 am

    @webelieve and IQuit, what made you guys actually quit? Was it something that happened that made you realize something wasn’t right or was it gradual?

  117. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 12, 2011 2:08 pm

    IQ~ LOL! The Brady quote add that one to cult-jargon!

    The juice, I honestly haven’t a clue, Juicescam, and all the others Humiliated, even Switch, understand way more than anyone would be taught. That is really embarrassing or atleast should be that people outside the business know more than the ones selling it! The short experience I had around that information is exactly what you see others spouting (all the cure’s,etc.) Is repeated just like everything else. Whatever they say is supposed to be taken as the gospel truth, don’t question just implicate yourself!
    It really is a shame! They state the rules but DO NOT follow them and just keep teaching them as ‘we can’t say that’ and then in the same breath they tell you to Share your ‘juice experience and what is has done for you!’

    It really is ignorance on the distributors part and they confuse people to the point of just repeating their lies!
    Unbelievable what they will do for a buck!

  118. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 13, 2011 8:32 am

    I’ll try to keep a long story short. For us there were two major points, the “rules” of qualification for various things had fuzzy borders that were manipulated at will by the guru you were connected to. Problem two was the tools were getting WAY OUT OF CONTROL. Too many tools with too much overlap as far as cd’s contained therin. Also the tools were constantly being updated in short timeframes thus rendering the old units obsolete and no credit or buy-back option. (Flushing toilet sound)
    I’ll also add that I couldn’t see how you could build a lifetime, residual, transferable income selling an overpriced “miracle juice”.
    Combine these with the other garbage you’ve read about already and you come up with F@&K IT, I QUIT! At least we did!!

  119. TOD permalink
    April 13, 2011 12:21 pm

    Once Team joined MV the ‘how-to’ was replaced almost monthly culminating in the infamous ‘6 this’, which was easily the worst idea EVER! It proved to a lot of us that Team had no idea what they were doing. ‘6 this’ made the short-lived TV series ‘Cop Rock’ look like a great idea.

    Name one good move Team has made since July 2007. They are on a 4 year losing streak. I know that business and life is a series of peaks and valleys, but that is one helluva valley. So when they leave MV( and they will ), don’t believe the sales pitch and hype that Team lays on you. The good old days are gone and Team is a group of has-beens.

  120. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 13, 2011 12:59 pm

    Thats exactly how we felt as well. It definitely was obvious the leadership was grasping at straws looking for a way to tie it all together. That clinched it for us!

  121. Jackson permalink
    April 13, 2011 1:47 pm

    What is 6 this?

  122. ONCE A CHECKPOINT RACER permalink
    April 13, 2011 4:18 pm

    6 This:

    Drink this (jungle juice)
    Watch this (corny MV dvd)
    Look at this (income disclosure statement – skewed and outdated)
    Sign this (application)
    Review this (cd’s and book)
    Attend this (open meeting)

    I think I am going to puke!

    They sixed this themselves right into failure.
    Saw on the team website MV is totally gone. Just rolled out the LIFE concept and
    new training company. So what does that mean? They are out of the juice biz
    with Dallin and exclusively selling leadership development? What a joke. No
    product just system. Crash and burn time!

  123. Jackson permalink
    April 13, 2011 4:32 pm

    I saw that the bom is life, a new book by woodward and brady…i wonder who shares the profit from sale of the book?

  124. TOD permalink
    April 13, 2011 4:41 pm

    I still see MV on their website, but you certainly have to look for it. Don’t worry, they will leave MV soon enough. What happen to 25 black diamonds and Team Island? Team Island must be where the 1 million people hang out. Keep searching fellas, I am sure the next venture will get you there.

    Also, when I mess things up horribly, I used to say that ‘I screwed the pooch’ which is too PG-13 for my wife so now I simply say “‘Man, I sure pulled a ‘6 this’ on that one!”

  125. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:11 pm

    TOD lol!
    What do you suppose that ‘new’ book has in it, let me think…. oh the same old copied stories from the other books, New title, new look, that’s right! LOL

  126. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:14 pm

    I think they have brought in the new F’s/l.i.f.e. stuff~ Mv just fits the ‘fit’ness. Just some thoughts.

    Forgot to add the same old recycled stories from the CD’s too.

  127. webelieved permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:17 pm

    Wonder if the book is a rewritten Tidbits and Treasures, a book they wrote years ago??? Or a new Consumer Rebellion rewrite??? Anyone know????

  128. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:22 pm

    Just wanted ya all to know so you can break out with some spontaneous clapping and verbal whooooing for the poor folks in a couple weeks; it is the big event!
    They are having their MAJOR at the same place they used to have their monthly seminars!!! Now one could be pretty confident in that the numbers are ‘exploding’ and not by a smigin either! clapping…..whoooo!
    Yes you can all join in the fun.

  129. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:24 pm

    I think you are on to something, I’m not going to buy it but I may wait for it to go on sale at the Goodwill! LOL

  130. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 5:33 pm

    IQ
    The truth you do speak…..bahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!

    TOD
    You make some dang good points!!!
    But you couldn’t avoid that ; ‘6 this’ it was going to resurface and haunt you without a doubt, but I see our friendly teamer helped you out, so you wouldn’t have to suffer that awful memory that would have caused you some definite tremors, LOL

    Saved by Once a Checkpoint Racer!

  131. switch permalink
    April 14, 2011 11:20 am

    same book with a different hard cover…..wait, let me take that back- my guess it will be a soft cover for some reason.

    Here’s a question for the diamonds,…… when you “trusting” leaders make the jump to only the tool scam, what are you going to tell all your “newbies” who have accumulated all these M.V. points that can supposedly carry over from month to month until you qualify to get paid?….”We have something better??!” or…..
    \
    “You’re just gonna have to eat the cost and start over?” How exactly are you gonna spin that one? What about all the money/time spent to accumulate all those points M.V. offers?

    Here’s one…..
    \
    “We’re about to launch something new!” ……when they ask when and what “it” is for months on end, what exactly are you going to tell them? “I don’t know, we just need to follow Orrin’s lead?”

    But after all this is said and done, I suppose we’ll all hear….
    \
    \
    \
    \
    “God Bless”

  132. April 14, 2011 11:30 am

    @switch – Good comment. Somehow I get the feeling that you are speaking from experience 🙂

  133. TOD permalink
    April 14, 2011 1:14 pm

    switch-
    Were you around when we switched from Team of Destiny to Team? If so, then you remember the countless thousands of tools that became obsolete when the switch was made. Same thing will happen to all of the Team/MV tools. New 1st night packs, new top 50’s and new every other repetitive pack available. Will the Team/MV tools be reimbursed? I think we all know the answer to that one. Oh well, that’s L.I.F.E.

  134. Jackson permalink
    April 14, 2011 1:17 pm

    wow…they are definitely headed in that direction again..why did they switch from team of destiny to team?

  135. TOD permalink
    April 14, 2011 1:38 pm

    To make it harder to find negative on the internet. Team is more generic than Team of Destiny (TOD) and was harder to find sites like this. I would wager that LIFE was picked for similar reasons.

  136. April 14, 2011 2:05 pm

    In many ways L.I.F.E is a more appropriate term for TEAM. While there’s no I in TEAM, there is one in LIFE. Plus, LIFE as an acronym is one F-word away from being LIE.

  137. aurora permalink
    April 14, 2011 2:29 pm

    Tod;

    Good point about it possibly being harder to find on the internet. Sometimes I forget they are probably working overtime trying to bury us.

  138. switch permalink
    April 14, 2011 2:31 pm

    TOD-
    No, I was never a part of TOD.

    So, all that work that the new person is doing to try and “succeed” in the infamous Life regime all to have it ripped from their hands because he or she is being mislead.

    What I would give to be in my uplines vehicle when he announces his resignation from the juice biz.

    My god, it’s history repeating itself all over again.

  139. switch permalink
    April 14, 2011 2:33 pm

    ….so in other words, bury the truth.

    Classic!

  140. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 14, 2011 3:41 pm

    Amthrax~I believe you hit the nail on the head!

  141. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 14, 2011 4:28 pm

    Now that’s the truth!

  142. April 14, 2011 4:33 pm

    The site was always gaudy – with or without the Monavie stuff – even the MV site looks more professional. Now it’s even more gaudier with this big wheel and transparent pictures of faces all over the place. Yuck!

  143. April 14, 2011 4:46 pm

    Ouch. My upline is screwed, big time, then. She’ll follow Woodward and Co. to the ends of the earth. she even said herself that “in five years we might not even be with Monavie” – how did she get a clue like that when at that time TEAM was still pushing the juice? She was only a Star 1000 – hmm…that’s MV, though, not sure what TEAM pin level she was, though.

    I am worrried about her. I wish she’d get out, but I can’t even communicate with her at all – I can’t email her, I can’t speak to her, nothing…And the other friend up in Ontario…sheesh, just reading all this is very depressing.

    TOD – I’m looking at that gaudy site….nothing about MV on the front page, anyway, I just got out of there fast, though.

    Is TEAM headed towards being a stand-alone company or are they seeking another MLM company? anyone know at all??? or have any idea??? I know they’ll have to wait six months btwn MLM companies, though, if they do leave MV.

  144. webelieved permalink
    April 14, 2011 5:19 pm

    Amthrax hilarious!!!! Ditto they needed to change the name to hide the negative truth on the internet!

  145. April 15, 2011 12:12 am

    Perhaps Orrin Woodward should change his name too – heh heh – we can still google Orrin Woodward :-p

  146. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 15, 2011 3:51 am

    @ V your picture on this looks great BTW, I checked out the TEAM home page and your right it does look kinda gaudy in my opinion as well, one observation is with the hard to find link to MV it looks like they can shift MLM’s without any major effort as the generic “Tools” and “System” apply to any MLM. As for the 6 month wait, that’s pretty much a toothless dog and virtually unenforceable in court if it actually gets passed an out of court settlement and will probably thrown out to mediation if one ever get’s that far.

    The so called “Master MLMer’s” like this are pretty much used to law suits anyway and write them off as the cost of doing the biz, most are offered an “Extra Bonus” when they are prospected by the parent company as an offset, the parent companies know full well that these guy’s can move a massive downline with them on a simple startup campaign and their story of how “I went Super Dee Duper Mega Diamond In a Day And a Half” and you can do it too stories sell.

  147. Jackson permalink
    April 15, 2011 7:20 am

    It does look like they are headed in that direction…the website is pushing the life concept.. Life means living intentionally for excellence. The new book is $23.95…. it includes photos and tweets from brady and wodward. I never paid that much for a BOM when I was in..they never costed more than about $15-18.

  148. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 7:35 am

    Wow~Guaranteed Cash for them with the force it down on, BOM.
    Pretty pricey for photo’s n tweets, especially since the ‘followers’ have probably already read them all. Geez~greedy much.
    Who in their right mind would pay for that, holy smokes!

  149. Jackson permalink
    April 15, 2011 7:41 am

    And unlike all the other tools, team members do not get a discount. Its the same price whether you’re in or out…all this is on the website, go to the shopping link.

  150. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 15, 2011 8:04 am

    And don’t forget that by being a BOM it will be easier to reach the NYT Best Seller list! They truly are incredible leaders! Just look at all the books they sell! They might move up the Guru list!! AWESOME!! I’m humbled to have associated with them! So lets all get to our feet and give a warm welcome to…

  151. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:10 am

    The new health and wellness product I’m importing from Indoniesia (Drum Roll Please)KOTOG short for it’s main ingerdient “kotoran gajah” that could help cure everything from hangnails to cancer. Hurry and sign up now before the biggest guys get in!!!!! lol

  152. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:31 am

    Lamo!
    And What’s up with the $7.00, yes that is $7 dollars for a CD!!!!!!!
    The liars that promise to lower their prices!
    Their greed never ceases to amaze me!
    They are ripping people off, PERIOD!

  153. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:36 am

    Ahah~ How many books you got on the NYT best sellers list?
    With the same cadence CB used for How much money you makin?
    They are awesome alright! Awesomely GREEDY and Unethical!

  154. April 15, 2011 9:44 am

    Everyone: I just posted a new post about the LIFE book here. Feel free to leave your comments about the book on that page.

  155. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:46 am

    Correction; The $7 dollars is for retail~ they are Charging $6 for member Cd~they still didn’t lower their prices, when will they EVER hold to their word…hmmm….. NEVER!

  156. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 11:31 am

    And “it has changed our life” ….. yep, for the worse!
    Oh but can’t you find something ‘good’…yep we QUIT because you poisoned people’s minds, damage everyone in your path, lie, use deceptive cult like tactics and stole from us and now we are Winners!

  157. dmricha permalink
    April 15, 2011 6:29 pm

    Speak Your Truth – Cds are $6 now? They were $5 when I was in. I’m glad we got out when we did. There is no way we could have afforded even the smallest rise in price. To me that’s the biggest sign they’re preparing to leave MV. If things were going so good why raise prices. Did they forget that they are top earners in a “recession proof business”?

  158. Jackson permalink
    April 15, 2011 7:37 pm

    So cds used to be $5?

  159. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:04 pm

    dmricha
    We had to pay $6 but I see it is $7 for retail. I really don’t know how we or anyone else does it, we made a decent income but put it all back into the business.
    But they promised they were going to drop their prices, must have needed to fill up the boat and show it off and decided against the lowering of prices?
    I just wonder if anyone gets a customer (LOL) if they would get paid the difference between retail or I would bet NOT. But who knows who keeps the retail because they are not transparent even to those who have ‘earned it’ (their profit-sharing).
    Orrin believes he owns that customer base, how arrogant when he didn’t do the work in our group to bring any of them and then steals it!
    The most unfair business practices I have ever seen.
    The ‘pressure selling’ and ‘guilt tatics’ from on stage and off stage is an atrocity.
    It rips me that they do this and expect people to spend every dime, including their house pmts, bill money, college fund, 401k etc.(Orrin gives that example that is what he did, and then says that same $2000, (I’m pretty sure that was the amount, it’s on a cd~planting the seed for others to do the same) and gives that line of BS that initial ‘investment’ carried him all the way to Diamond!
    They will take from you, without a bat of the eye, on whatever they decide to promote, if they have to much stock or something not selling (most companies sell it dirt cheap to get rid of) or need to ‘rank their books’ they know way before anyone what is going to be obsolete, they promoted it like it is the lastest and greatest tool you can’t live without!
    They do not care that people just overspent, complusively from the hyped up promotions, they create that complusive buying, it is so twisted it makes me sick.
    Then call themselves ‘financial advisors’ and come at you with another notorious conflicting message; ‘you need to live below your means’ doesn’t it just blow your mind when you can see this, after the bs~smoke & mirrors our gone from your view?
    Unbelievable how crafty they really are at keeping you from looking at what you are spending a month, and sending mixed messages, just because they will play on the emotion in every arena they have!
    It just pi**es me off how they rob people and get away with it.
    The ‘recession’ is exactly what is bringing them down, and will be why people just quit continually more than ever, not to mention the unethical immoral & illegal garbage. They don’t have the ‘leaders’ anymore to do their dirty work for them, either.
    They are so self-deceived.
    The ‘business opprotunity’, if you can call it that, has everything going against it. Everything!
    I hope you didn’t lose to much to them shysters.

  160. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:09 pm

    I really can’t remember ever paying $5 but that is what dmricha paid, maybe we did for a short period but I honestly don’t ever it being that, I would have to look back on my ‘documents’ lol

  161. Jackson permalink
    April 16, 2011 12:36 am

    I dont understand how your income can be taken.. How do you know if you qualify or not for a given month?

  162. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 16, 2011 4:49 pm

    Jackson
    That is the million dollar question and one asked by everyone. The only answer I have is there is no one policing them, Orrin now own’s the Company and he does whatever the hell he wants.
    The second question I do not know the answer to what they do now but before you would have to keep the numbers at the lowest level which used to be turbo 25 tickets with turbo 12 on system.

  163. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 16, 2011 9:34 pm

    Once you had the qualifications to get into the profit-sharing,(turbo25 tickets & turbo 12 system) you couldn’t fall below those qualifications. We never had anyone fall out of qualifications once they were in. The idea was to grow your numbers every month.

    How they took our profit-sharing was this simple: They just quit paying us.
    It would take a lot of $$$, lawsuit and investigation to hold them accountable. But they will reap what they have sown!

    You had a line of sponsorship; was the same as product(Am/Q/MV side, that you viewed in your EBC and reported your numbers from every week. Then they sent you a profit-sharing check based off those numbers you had on system in your group.

    The problem was no one knew how they calculated so you just trusted they were doing the right thing? It wasn’t like you could say you make $25 dollars an hour x (x amount of hours). They never told you or showed you so you never knew if they were being honest or Not?

    It is insane, especially now with hindsight. But everyone just trusted they would pay what they promised. (passive, residual, blah, blah~lies)
    Then never gave us our contracts, we never even had a contract until years after we were in profit-sharing.

    NO company just expects you to “trust” them without telling you exactly how you get paid because no one would go to work!
    No one does business this way unless you have something to HIDE!
    Lesson learned~ the hard way!

  164. Jackson permalink
    April 16, 2011 9:39 pm

    @speak the truth.. so was it a point in time where

  165. April 17, 2011 12:03 am

    I remember a video where Laurie Woodward says “Monavie changed my life” – bull. It was Amyway and the tool scam that “changed her life” to be rich snobs. So when Monavie goes, and the next MLM comes in…well that’ll change Laurie’s life as well…….

  166. April 17, 2011 12:07 am

    They keep up this over-charging shenanegins they’ll really lose their ability to scam, better watch it, Woodward and Co! 😉

  167. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 17, 2011 3:16 pm

    Jackson
    I am not sure what you are asking?

  168. j tyrell permalink
    June 22, 2011 6:58 pm

    Under no circumstances does Monavie co. claim to be a cure or a drug. It’s just juice. As far as being healthy? Well, if fruit of various kinds aren’t healthy and restorative to our bodies, then to the pharmacy to purchase grossly over priced chemicals we go! Because that’s so healthy! LOL.

  169. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 23, 2011 3:38 pm

    jtyrell
    You are right it is in their policy but if you read the many, many claims made by the disttibutors you will find a whole different story. The training comes from the TOP Down, and the one we were a part of it came from the Top first, and then it is ‘repeat after me.’

  170. Burned Out With MV permalink
    June 24, 2011 4:06 am

    It comes from the top down, the middle level puts it’s own spin on it and then the new ones pitching to friends nothing that remotely resembles factual. Here are of a few wild claims from back in the day I heard for your dining and dancing pleasure that caused Dallan to quip the “this is like trying to herd cats” quote that was also another rumor.

    Oprah is promoting Monavie.

    Monavie has Viargra in it.

    Monavie cures cancer.

    Bill Clinton is in Monavie.

    It was laughable, still folks believed it.

  171. humiliated permalink
    June 24, 2011 7:43 am

    j.tyrell. You are right, it is JUST a juice.And you are also right that various kinds of fruit are good for the body. But, here again are the questionable marketing tactics that MonaVie distributors use to promote the product. YOu hope (intentinally or unintentionally) that a person will make the inference that comment a) thens makes comment b) true.Au contraire. 4 ounces of MonaVie a day contains the equivalent of ONE serving of fruit a day. That ONE serving contains less anti-oxidants than an ordinary, store bought apple.

    If a person is going to drink “just juice”, there are many, many more products on the market containing more nutrients at a fraction of the cost. MonaVie is scamming people into believing that their product is somehow superior, when their own testing has shown that it is not.

    Distributors come on here acting like they have some sort of superior knowledge about nutrition based on what you are being spoon fed by MonaVie Corporate and it truly disgusts me. You need to learn about nutrition and what your product ACTUALLY contains before coming on here with your blanket statements.

    I prefer to eat fruits and vegetables. Barring that, I choose to buy juice that is not GROSSLY overpriced ,not due to the quality of the product (if I hear the Mercedes v. Ford argument one more time I will scream) but so that naive distributors will continue lining their upline’s bank account in this pyramid scheme. More is better for Brig Hart & Dallin Larsen.

    I also prefer to buy my juice from a store, not a cult. The last meeting that MonaVie had in Salt Lake showed more photos of the religious ceremony on the last day of the 3 day meeting, then of the meeting itself. Take a look at the R3Global site. It is really quite disturbing. I also note that they are not able to get any “real” speakers out any longer, they are having to use their Hart, Larsen & Diamonds (at no cost) and throw in a religious speaker or two. They have one speaker that they try to pass off as a Life coach or Motivational speaker, but he is just a dressed up patsy for Monavie.

    And, yes, I was involved and saw all of this nonsense first hand. And no, I am not a sore loser. I actually became involved because I thought that this would improve my health and the health of my friends and family. Turns out all I did was rob them blind because this “juice” isn’t worth the bottle it is sold in. I have to live with that for the rest of my life.

  172. free at last permalink
    August 17, 2011 6:44 am

    Profit sharing changes on a monthly basis depending on how much money Orrin needs that month. This is not an income you can depend on as it changes even if your numbers stay the same.

  173. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 7:42 am

    free at last~

    Do they post for everyone to see what the profit is for the month and do they tell you how your pay is ‘figured’? Does it change for EVERYONE or just certain levels? Do they give people a copy of the contract now with the formular?

    There is no way on God’s green earth, would I EVER TRUST for a second them; without being able to verify if they are paying you right! They have PROVEN they are NOT trustworthy!
    They need to fully disclosing the profit, how you get paid, and be able to check if the ‘figured’ it right!

    We KNOW from experience that they did this to us, income was in the thousands (per month) then all of a sudden dropped to hundreds (numbers didn’t change) before they stole it ALL without an explanation, just stopped sending the Checks!!!!

    I know if we were to sue them and they are forced to crack open thier books, it wouldn’t end in their favor and am sure would reveal just how Godly they aren’t!

    They CANNOT be TRUSTED, period and They can STEAL it any time they ‘feel like it’, just like they did to us! I feel bad for those that don’t have a clue, that this is what they will do after over a decade of building it for them!

  174. free at last permalink
    August 18, 2011 3:19 pm

    SYT_

    You are correct they cannot be trusted. I don’t believe their is a formula for profit sharing, like i said, just depends on how much money the pc needs that month.

    That $2,000-$3,000 a month line of B.S. must only be for butt kissers.

    Now you have to be voted in to be a “director” and spend so much in tools. What a joke!

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