Skip to content

Beleaguered Boyfriend Asks For Help

April 13, 2011

Here’s a request for help from one of my readers. Can you provide tips to this beleaguered boyfriend on how to extricate his girlfriend from the clutches of TEAM?

Hello – All you Quitters – (that was a joke!)

I see that the lot of you have actually become the better – for having forgo the experience. I know it was no fun to admit that you were bamboozled. I see all of TEAM as a gimmick, a smooth hustle, intricately designed by intelligent criminals. It is an elaborate Flim Flam put on by some rich con men. Even though I didn’t do what you have done – by becoming a part of TEAM – I have been reading all your blogs and comments in hopes to find the answer I am looking for. I have a girlfriend that has been involved in Team since Oct.

She talks the lingo – does the meetings – reads the books and listens to the brainwashing cd’s – but does not do the auto-ship of the product. Everything that I read here I believe – but she doesn’t want to find out that she has been lied to. I told her that my research has led me to believe that TEAM is a cult, and that the guys at top are greedy creeps, that lie.

So – to say the least – I am now on a mission – to save her.
But, how can I when she really believes that she is going to become a leader and help others become leaders – and make a million while doing so?

Do you have any suggestions?

Especially the women!

Read More Ex-TEAM Reader Stories »

87 Comments leave one →
  1. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 13, 2011 6:27 am

    When faced with the cult mindset and miss quoted Bible verses in TEAM and R3G, logical reasoning has little impact on the “believer”, I’m not making any direct comparisions, but it might help to point out to your friend that a charismatic leader of a cult can influnce people to do some pretty crazy ass things (Jonestown and Waco are extream examples). Also for her to take a few steps back and wake up to the fact this has been going on since 2005, the last IDS Monavie published was in Mid 2009 and when compared to previous ones it was declining in both numbers and dollars, the older ones were before it flashed in the USA and before the launch of the additional product lines, then hope for the best as sooner or later her credit cards will max out and the “Great Leadership” won’t even know her.

  2. aurora permalink
    April 13, 2011 8:15 am

    Dear Beleaguered;

    Are you for real? You can’t believe how many trolls we get on here. There really is nothing new to say. If you have really read all the posts on here (a gargantuan task) you would have all your questions answered times ten.

    With all due respect, sometimes I think trolls just want attention where ever they can get it. It’s why some people church-hop. They get about a 6 months honeymoon. Then they are expected to get off the porch and contribute in some way. Suddenly, they’re off to another church, or whatever.j

    It is extremely time consuming to keep repeating ourselves indefinetly.

    Trolls are sent in to try to wear us out.

    Again, I hope you are sincere. If not, you will get your clock cleaned.

  3. April 13, 2011 9:14 am

    Gee Thanks for the name calling. I didn’t mean that I read all the blogs and comments when I said “I have been reading all your blogs and comments”. If you took it that way – oh well.
    I assure you aurora that I am sincere.
    I told her a week and a half ago that I was convinced that TEAM was a cult and the reaction I got was not what I expected. So – yes, maybe there isn’t nothing new to say. Thanks again for the time you took to repeat yourself.

  4. April 13, 2011 9:36 am

    @aurora – I have no reason to believe that @beleagueredboyfriend is anything but sincere. Let’s keep the comments on-topic, with constructive advice on how to help someone’s other half to see the light.

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 10:55 am

    Dear beleagured
    I can empathize with you of having someone you care about being trapped and used by these as you say “smooth hustling intelligent criminals,” as for us; it was us that was trapped! I also have learned that you cannot approach your girlfriend head-on with the cult information. This is the cult expert advise. So I recommend you going to the http://freedomofmind.com/ website. This is one of the most well respected cult experts and has written some books.The best one for helping others ‘get out’ is ‘Combatting Mind Control’ excellent resource. He also has a phone number you could contact him. One of the first books I read was Merchants of Deception by Eric Shreibeler and although he had a different upline, it is as close as it gets. You could find a link in one of these posts, on that book you can download it for free, maybe Amthrax could help with that.
    As you know it is amazing to watch the transformation from who you know your girlfriend is to whom she has become in a very short period of time.
    Please forgive us if we seem pretty angry on here sometimes, we have lost a lot and have been to Hell and back!
    I commend you for wanting to research and help your girlfriend, it is obvious you truly care about her, she should count her blessings!
    You have came to the right blog if you are looking for information from ‘those who have been there- from the inside’
    There most people on here have spent years & years up & close to those “smooth hustling intelligent criminals.”
    I will admit it would be a daunting task to read all that is written here, there are thousands of comments on here about the practices, methods, and actions of Orrin and system abuses.
    If you are interested, although you seem to have a good idea already; I would read some more and trust your instincts.
    Hope this helps, and thanks for sharing.

    Maybe you could share how long it took your girlfriend to transform or when you started to see the changes of her listening to them and shutting your information out. It is pretty scary but I think you could help other new researchers in the signs to watch for. Thanks.
    Hope this helps.

  6. TOD permalink
    April 13, 2011 12:01 pm

    I am not a woman, sorry. But, I would ask her to take a strictly business approach to what she is doing. Figure out how much she is spending on everything. CD’s, books, meetings, product, gas and even food at events. Then track that against how much she has as income and then put a time line on how soon she should break even. I believe that is the quickest way for her to see that it does not work. Stick with logic because you will lose every single time on emotion. I am assuming that you are relatively young as well so you may want to show her how much time can be wasted by pursuing this doomed endeavor. Hope this makes sense.

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 12:06 pm

    Also I find it interesting you say your girlfriend is not on autoship.
    Do you mean she does not buy the juice at all or just not on autoship?
    The reason I ask is because I am curious,the comments on here from some who are more recent and still close ties to the Team,reference a change in the way Team is doing things now, and that they are promoting their L.I.F.E./ life coaching. Not promoting or teaching anything about the product is their standard opperating proceedure, so that is not surprising but it would surprise me and very telling if they have sold your girlfriend on the ‘system only.’
    This is not anything new, they have always promoted the ‘system’ as the opprotunity but threw in the ‘buy from yourself’, since way back in the early 90’s when they began with Amway.
    This is where Orrin Woodward/ and the Teams originally came from, then moved into the ‘internet’/Quixtar, then left with a lot of attempted lawsuits in their trail and ended in, losing a lawsuit to Quixtar, because they took all the teams into Monavie.
    They never share this and would not like anyone asking about it either, lol but they have changed their name from Team of Destiny to Team and now have been told it is going to be L.I.F.E. because of the ‘negative truth.’ What is funny Orrin and others critisize in everyway from using humor to out right attacking the critic but ended up agreeing with them in a statement, when he was in the fight with Quixtar.
    None of the Policy Counsel built Monavie from scratch, not even close! Their pin levels for all the Policy Counsel almost all of the other bigger pins acheived that rank from Teams built in Quixtar/Amway and transfered them to Monavie.
    To reference one of the best sources I have seen on the ‘juice’ is http://www.juicescam.com/ maybe you have already read this site but if you haven’t it would be worth your time. Interesting and embarrassing I will say because they are way more educated than even those that are selling it! That should tell you how well their ‘training system’ works or doesn’t.
    This kinda puts things in a nutshell, hope that helps.

  8. aurora permalink
    April 13, 2011 12:49 pm

    Point taken, Amthrax. I get suspicious sometimes and feel we are being set up. I tried to tell B that if he was sincere, aint’ it great.

    Maybe I’m a little overprotective of those on this blog. My apologies.

  9. April 13, 2011 1:02 pm

    Dear Beleaguered Boyfriend

    Maybe I am bringing bad news by writing: you can only save someone if that person wants to be saved. And by reading your story your girlfriend is not that far yet. This does not mean that you cannot help her, but it will be a struggle for you.

    Watch out that you do not use the same tricks as the cult members do: threatening her, or getting angry, or bribe her emotionally. Even if you are not in a cult, people use these “techniques” some times, especially when they are desperate because the one they love is not listening.

    That is why she is not listening to you by telling her she is in a cult, especially when she feels appreciated by those people. I think you can help her the most by trying to help her finding the answers herself. Do not confront by judging, but just ask questions and try to be responsible with your questions, so in the end it will open her mind, and she will recognize the scam.

    As I have (seen) written before vulnerable people are easy victims for these cults. It is filling a empty hole in someone’s life. I do not if this is the case with your girlfriend, but if it is, maybe she should get help from a professional as well.

    Also you need to set your own boundaries very clearly, and that there are consequences, if she crosses those boundaries. This can be about money, time away from you or whatever you think is important in your relation. This is to save yourself; if you do not take care of yourself, in the end you certainly cannot take care of her.

    Hope this helps.

  10. Vogel permalink
    April 13, 2011 1:19 pm

    Beleaguered — You have already made an attempt to discuss it with her to no avail, so if you still can’t get through to her after a few more considerate attempts at reasoning with her, I advocate the tough love/ultimatum approach.

    As much as you may care about this person, you have to protect yourself, or your life will become increasingly dominated by TEAM-speak and social interactions with TEAM-bots (loathsome), and soon she woun’t be able to resist making the TEAM cult pitch to everyone she meets (just picture that at your next family get together, office party, church gathering, etc.). Also, be prepared for her to earn lose money in this endeavor. Will you then be responsible for picking up the slack financially?

    Her career aspirations (whether she realizes it or not) are to sell fraudulent fruit juice and suck people into a hoplessly corrupt and dishonest pyramid scheme. Can you sit back in good conscience, smile, and let this happen, or is your integrity, self-respect, and compassion for other worth standing up for?

    You have ample reason to be horrified by her invovement in TEAM/Monavie. I’d give her a simple choice — you or them. Are you secure enough to take that chance? If it’s a relationship worth keeping, she’ll honor your position on the issue and take heed. But if she’s willing to pick TEAM over you, then it’s best to find that out now before you invest anything more in the relationship.

    If this were my relationship at stake, my partner’s involvement in Monavie/TEAM would be an unquivocal dealbreaker. I wouldn’t be able to stand the delusional behavior, materialism, skeezy new “friends”, groupthink, constant hustling, dishonesty, impoverishment, etc. Especially because it will all be for naught. Even with her best efforts, she won’t become a leader of anything, she won’t inspire anything (other than revulsion and avoidance in most cases), and she will NEVER make a million dollars.

    Make a deal with her that you’ll stand by here and help her if she wants to go to college or otherwise acquire some marketable skills, but tell her your not willing to go through sacrifices for this depraved Monavie/TEAM $hit.

  11. Vogel permalink
    April 13, 2011 1:30 pm

    I don’t blame you a bit. I tend to fly off the handle sometimes too, given that there are so many real trolls that like to play stupid games. I didn’t get the impression that Beleagured was one of them though.

    I like that you stepped up when challenged. The ability for reappraisal is one of the things that separate the closeminded TEAM-bots from everyone else. It’s also nice to see that we have a community that actually THINKS about things, and that we look out for each other.

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 13, 2011 2:16 pm

    Amen! Thanks to all that have our backs against some of the vicious brainwashed wolves in sheeps clothing!

  13. webelieved permalink
    April 13, 2011 6:00 pm

    Wanted to tell you to be careful how you go about trying to get her out. If you attack Team she will not be able to see it, and won’t listen to anything you say after. It will help you much to read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hasan. He will give you the education on how to go about doing it. I was done with Team and still I didn’t understand what had happended to me, how people could act the way they did, until I read that book.
    I believe women are more emotionally invested so it can be very hard. Remember she wants to believe in all of this,the new friends, the dream, making a difference, etc. and it is very convincing. There are a lot of good principles used with the deception, so it all looks really good to her. She has no idea the deception they are using to keep everyone in, information that is purposely left out….. I will say once your girlfriend goes off system and stops attending meetings, her team friends will have no time or interest in her. They will no longer care about her.
    I couldn’t say the Team was a cult, but I could see the Moonies were a cult when I read the book. Once I saw the deception, love bombing tactics, etc the moonies used, in my mind I could see in my experience, the Team uses the same. Although it was very hard to accept, I will say it is my opinion the Team uses the same type of deceptive processes that cults use, and I reccomend people read Combatting Cult Mind Control and make their own decision.
    Loved ones tried to convince me not to be part of the team, of course I didn’t/couldn’t listen, because I had already been taught how to handle their objections from cd’s. The stop thinking techniques were in place. Please read the book without saying a word to her for your best shot. If my family would’ve known what to say and how to do it may have saved me years of heartache, years of time wasted, and terrible destruction in my life. Also I will say the logic of getting contracts and asking direct questions may help, but you have to stay on her side and not attack. I wrote a long post on questions to ask, (many they won’t answer directly) maybe Amthrax will know where it is?

  14. webelieved permalink
    April 13, 2011 6:14 pm

    She needs to know you care and other family cares, in the end none of the TEAM bots will be there for her. It will be her family and very few friends…. Also she must have some doubt about her future potential and needs to know investing in herself in education is smart . Do not put all your eggs in any basket, someone can take it away anytime they please. That is what Orrin himself has done to many. Help her see Team is not her business, the contracts do not protect her work. Her upline can steal and destroy at anytime. Support her in starting a real business.

    I also agree with Me and Vogels responses. Team will infiltrate your whole life. If I was only dating, involvement with Team would be a deal breaker for me too. It will only lead to heartbreak or enslavement of your time to someone else. The hierarchy is set up that way.

  15. switch permalink
    April 13, 2011 7:47 pm

    Great advice here Beleaguered.

    As I can see the untrusting ways of trolls, slowly but surely, I’m getting my trust back. You simply live and learn. It’s quite clear that many things are wrong and for team to keep brushing the problems at hand aside will only keep hurting them in the end. That’s why the advice to ask direct questions is probably one of your best bets in my opinion along with the books. If she wants to continue on her journey with team, she better be ready for a boat load of questions and debates. I hope she’s ready.

    Nice to have ya here Beleaguered, hope you stay awhile.

  16. April 13, 2011 9:21 pm

    @webelieved and @beleaguered – I believe the list of questions that webelieved is referring to is here. It’s from my post about the FTC’s Operation Empty Promises campaign (see link at top of this page).

  17. April 13, 2011 9:26 pm

    I really have to stress what SYT said about Steve Hassan’s site, there’s a good video right on the front page about his experience with a cult. It might give you some insight of the psychology behind a cult organisation.

  18. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 14, 2011 4:10 am

    Beleaguered,

    I hope this all works out for you and your GF, great advice from the folks on this site BTW as most of us have been there, done that, got that t-shirt in MV, Amway or the other MLM’s, which is why we post on this and other blogs like “Juice Scam” in the hope that our experences may help others see the light about the BS and hype these so called “leaders” pitch to the unknowing people who are looking for something and don’t understand how these things really work. It’s not like the leaders will tell anybody from the stage that the real profit in the MLM game is from tool sales, seminar tickets sold to the downline and speaking engaugement fee’s at the events, this is something they pretty much keep to themselves and when you stop buying from them and showing up for their events, in addition to the company events I might add, you never hear from them and they just move on to a new market leaving you stuck with an empty bank account and overlimit credit cards.

    As for MV, it’s pretty much market saturated in the USA and the other countries they have on board are slowly following suit, so they launched an energy drink and a weight loss program in addition to the juice line and it’s various flavors so it’s pretty much a sinking ship in my opinion. As for your friend try to tell her not to look at the ” Diamond Level” as they come and go and the majority are struggling from a cash flow standpoint to keep their downlines engauged ask this, when was the last time somebody new in MV went Black Diamond or above, that is where the real money is, also another good question to ask is how many people at these events are in your downline, for if they are not, they are your competition.

    Hope it helps.

  19. webelieved permalink
    April 14, 2011 6:18 am

    Burned Out, those are very good points!! Everyone is your competition and there is no protection for the sales force. No territories etc. Also you are right no one has legitimately moved on to black diamond or above in three years that we have seen. Oh unless we count Team leaders that product load and buy bulk purchases through their down lines to lift their levels for a few weeks to be called the next pin, meanwhile their volume most weeks is one to two levels below their proclaimed success!!! Talk about deception!!!!
    Once they go to TEAM LIFE I would guess the deception could be bigger as there is no checks and balances, Team changes the game whenever they want, and no one is policing the numbers, they are moved at the whim of the policy council.
    Boyfriend, Tax Returns are the key!!! Have her ask for them, I bet she will get the run around, because they do not want her to see the expenses they write off!!!!! Getting the run around should be a red flag to her conscience if she is not too brainwashed. The cds will be your worst enemy in the whole war. That is where the real brainwashing happens. The Major Leadership Convention is coming up, hopefully she won’t go. Plan a trip to Jamaica that weekend. LOL. Make her chose!!!! I think I would’ve chose an exotic trip over sitting all weekend ! If she won’t go at least you will have fun!!! Seriously though she is being indoctrinated to think a certain way, so the battle will be hard. Use the goodness, fun that you have in you and show her it. When you are on the Team it will all become work eventually, you do not have down time, or time for fun. Help her take that time off to freely think. No cds, no meetings, no work, no phone, no computer. Just Fun. Help keep her connected to friends, hobbies, church etc that she did before team. Show her it is wrong to give her life up for a job. God would not call her to do that. He also would not call her to follow blindly and idolize men, money,power and material things. He called us to help the poor and the widows, not be so busy chasing our or Orrin’s dream that we can’t . The religious card is hard to get over. Have her call Pastor Dickie and ask if he is a part of Team. I know he is not and I am sure he will tell you that. He is a man of God and was Orrin’s mentor. He and his whole family who worked for Team are no longer involved with TEAM, now why would they all leave?????????????? Did anyone tell her he is gone, or did they just give her his Cd’s to listen to??? There are a lot of lies and secrets held on TEAM. Ask direct questions and go to the source. Have her ask about Pastor and then call him. Ask about the other BIG LEADERS THAT LEFT, then call them. I bet the answer will not be the same one you get from a leader still on Team. They spread the answer/lie/half truth told to them by their upline on everything, that is the culture. You are not taught to think for yourself, or investigate anything, in fact it is frowned upon, critical thinking that is. Follow your up line and the system blindly at all costs, even if you have to lie.

  20. webelieved permalink
    April 14, 2011 6:19 am

    All just my observations and opinions of course! 🙂

  21. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 14, 2011 8:01 am

    One thing getting back to the religion and cult thing in MV, I checked out the leadership board in MV (something I haven’t done in years) and noticed one of the very early Black Diamonds picture was not there anymore, he is a real preacher with a real church so I’m not going to mention his name on this out of respect for that and I’ll let everyone draw their own conclusions.

  22. dmricha permalink
    April 15, 2011 2:31 pm

    Beleaguered – Ask her to read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. It’s mentioned when they show the plan and last time I checked is on the recommended book list. The business is supposed to be built with the intention of creating a B-type business in order to generate passive income.

    If she really reads the book it’s clear to see that the only way to create the type of business she’s looking for is to own the system. Not work someone else’s system. TEAM is supposed to be the system. Monavie is the product. She owns no part of either TEAM or Monavie. When Monavie shuts down any income that she generated is gone. Therefore she will never create a B-type business. They’re just taking her money.

    As far as the cult aspect look at the reason why the she joined TEAM. For me it wasn’t about the money. I had a two year old and I was 7 months pregnant. My husband is a police officer so he doesn’t get to spend a lot of time at home. I really wanted the female companionship that TEAM promised. I though the upline wife was going to be my best friend and really cared about me.

    She could be feeling lonely or under appreciated like I was. That could be what keeps her in. Try finding and addressing the real need. Then you can find other ways to fill it. Once that’s taken care of then she won’t need TEAM any more.

    Good Luck = )

  23. humiliated permalink
    April 15, 2011 3:04 pm

    Your story is interesting dmricha. I never thought of it that way…I had another friend who was in a church type cult and she said the same thing, she had moved to a new city, didn’t know a lot of people and they were nice to her, until they weren’t anymore. When she caught on & tried to leave they were threatening and horrible to her. She is an incredibly intelligent person but was sucked in for a couple of years. They certainly had her number, much like TEAM & MV had yours.

    What did your husband think of your involvement, being a police officer and all?

  24. dmricha permalink
    April 15, 2011 4:58 pm

    Humiliated

    He didn’t like it at first. There were actually other officers involved so he warmed up to it fast. Just like I found female companionship he bonded with a lot of the guys. He grew up with a lot of brothers and after he got a promotion we moved, so for awhile it was like being back at home

    Now he just wishes that he could arrest them all. = )

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 5:51 pm

    dmricha
    Maybe he will get his wishes, I hope he does. LOL!
    Thanks for sharing that and I know from the ‘cult’ warnings; the reasons for those who get involved gets involved is first, they were recruited and secondly it is at our vulnerable stages; like a move to a location, new at college, tragedy, loss, divorce etc.
    I know for us we had more than one that fit the profile for sure; when we were first shown the plan.
    So, the warning for others is if they have anything like that happening, it’s best to wait and heal until things get settled and resolved before making any ‘life’ decisions.
    Now from experience I could say stay away from the Team, forever.

  26. dmricha permalink
    April 15, 2011 6:54 pm

    Speak Your Truth – I think that’s why I’m so pissed off about the new book. It’s just another way for them prey upon someone’s weak spots. I don’t hate anyone. It creates bad Karma. I just want this whole thing to be over soon and no more families hurt.

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:32 pm

    Yes~Amen, but I haven’t arrived there yet, I have alot of personal work to do to not despise these thieves. I stand for what I believe in but holy crap do I have some forgiving to do!
    It is so destructive and I am with you on the preying on people!

    I still think and pray for the families on our teams and others still there.

    There is families I already stated this, that they have people in the same family buying double cd’s of the week pkgs! We bought double cd’s 1 for me and 1 for spouse, cuz that’s what ‘real leaders’ do?

    I mentioned a family that had a mentally challenged Son that has to live at home, and when he turned 18 then both the Son and the Parents were getting double cd’s and to add insult to that injury the ‘leaders’ working with them KNOW they will never build the buisness they never missed anything and only came because they wanted to belong and socialize!!!!

    Also, I know of another family that LOST their home and couldn’t afford heat in their house or food and had kids but never got off system!!!
    This is such a crime to me, and the people working with these people never Advised them to get off, it is just Bullsh**!

    They are hurting thousands and thousands! Probably more like 100,000’s if not millions because this same game as been played for 40-45 yrs.

    I am a person who has always stood up for the underdog and it royaly pi**es me off that they keep these people on system!
    I seriously cannot understand it.

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 15, 2011 9:35 pm

    I’m sorry those stories just break my heart!

  29. April 16, 2011 8:58 pm

    Hey, thanks for all the great suggestions! I need to tell you some more info.
    The week before the monthly meeting she was complaining that she wasn’t able to get things done anymore. She has her own business, and it is suffering due to this dream of making it big with TEAM. I told her that she spends too much time with TEAM, and her defense was that she only did it once a week and one Saturday a month (not true). That was when I went online and found AMTHRAX, and promptly told her that TEAM was a scam and the only people making money were the ones on top. She said it wasn’t a pyramid scheme, that it had an elaborate structure, which enabled the newest member to do better than the people above them, if they worked hard enough to make it happen. She was also not happy with me calling her people evil, greedy and liars. So – we got through that – but it was intense. We agreed to not bring up TEAM, and that she would do some digging on the Internet and decide if I was right or not. That didn’t happen.  Then last Friday she told me that she was planning on going to the monthly meeting. My reaction was to tell her that I thought we needed to breakup since I was so against the way TEAM took advantage of the type of people that didn’t have the money in the first place. Her response was that TEAM can help those people get out of the hole they were in. We got over that – will, not really, especially after today.
    I found out today that she had called upline and told him that I was talking negative about TEAM. So now they are paying a lot of attention to her. They have invited her to a potluck and she thinks it is best for her to go. This is really hard to take, sense I feel as though my comments don’t mean a thing – that TEAM is more real than me. I am considering taking the advice of Vogel – and my own reaction for that matter – and just end it until she ends it with TEAM.

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 16, 2011 9:54 pm

    I am sorry, but not surprised.

    “She said it wasn’t a pyramid scheme, that it had an elaborate structure, which enabled the newest member to do better than the people above them.”

    Ask her to show you ONE person legitimately (not someone who got picked to have someone elses teams added to them) that makes more than their upline! She won’t find ONE!

    Elaborate structure~ what kind of bullsh** is that!
    I know this situation is not funny but that is hilarious, must be their new ‘stop thinking technique’ for the ‘pyramid structure,’ ‘handling objection.’ Elaborately Corrupt!

    I am sorry to say she is repeating exactly what they say and has bought into their BS. Calling her ‘upline’ for advice solidifies that.

    Good luck, I wouldn’t want to be in your shoes, but know we are rooting for you and pray for the best.

  31. April 16, 2011 11:58 pm

    Ouch.

    So sorry to hear that, Beleagered. My guess is that she might even be told to end it with you for the sake of “her success”. Trust me, I know, I’m not in contact with any TEAM members because I’m so outspoken against TEAM. I really wish I can encourage you…

    The only reason why my husband put up with me being involved in TEAM is because he wanted me to make my own decision and to find things out for myself. He stated his opinion numerous times, but still drove me to the meetings and took care of the kids, etc. I guess I was lucky, most men (who knows the difference) would be more vocal. Needless to say he was some pissed off at the amount of money I put out. And yes, I was told by my upline and other TEAMbots not to listen to my husband, because he doesn’t know about “The Business”. They may have already told your girlfriend that.

    Ach, sorry, mate…I just wish I can be more encouraging than this…this is a very tricky situation that you’re in. Perhaps Vogel’s advise is for the best :-s

  32. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 18, 2011 4:05 am

    I would not dump the relationship, just let the TEAM crap run it’s course, sooner or later they all wake up and figure out it does not really work for all but the top ones who are selling the tools after dropping a few grand and alot of wasted time.

  33. Teri Brill permalink
    May 2, 2011 10:45 pm

    Hi there,

    I just had a talk with my Boy Friend, after he has just come back from the MKE conference. It did not go well, and I took a very soft approach. I asked him how it went, and that I was happy he had a good time. He is a college graduate, so I asked why he did not follow his education doctrine. He said he took general business classes. Then I proceeded with what led you to TEAM? A friend of course. I pushed a little more and asked how long he has been involved with TEAM, to which the answer was over 2 years (sighs). Since this is a long distance relationship right now, it was easy for me to ask the next question. What if “I do not get involved with you in this TEAM business”, will you still want to be with me, do you see a future, if I do not get involved? His answer was exactly what I expected. It would be hard for me to be with someone who is not supportive and negative about the company. Quoting here…..Many couples are involved together, when one partner is not involved it causes trouble for the other, with negative comments, etc. I am not sure if I can get involved with a person who does not share my beliefs. People that have not been to a TEAM meeting do not know what it is about, and how wonderful it is. You know at the MKE conference we start with a prayer, and say the plede of allegence, what other company do you know that does that? I started to cry, and he could hear me. I excused myself from the phone for a second and composed myself. I have learned more by reading my books than I did in 4 years of college. At this point I stated that I had researched the company all the while he was at this conference. Then silence, then the question “and what did you find?” I stated that I found many articles, trying to avoid anything negative. I told him simply put ” I am just not too sure of this company”. But we do so many good things, he said. I decided to table the discussion until another date. He is coming off an extream “High”. There was no point in pushing any farther tonight. Just thought I would update what is happening. I was asked to attend a meeting, then :I would see the light”. I agreed, since this seemed fair, then I could see for myself what tactics they use ….wink wink. May I just add that he is extreamly shy, and does not do well talking to people. Hmm, this is where I have the upper hand, as I am a social butterfly, and am not afraid to ask questions! Having a background in Law, helps me to be objective, but also kick it back that them! Will keep you posted. Sorry for my spelling it is late here 🙂

  34. webelieved permalink
    May 3, 2011 3:21 pm

    Good for you Teri. I think you are on the right track. Team is filling a hole for him. The books are great. He can read them for free at the library or buy them at the Christian bookstore as that is where most of them are. I feel bad for him as I can see myself in him.
    It is so enticing and parts of it are sooo good, like the books and the idea of bettering yourself, however when you have to lie and decieve people into your business I don’t consider that bettering yourself. Team will teach him how to manipulate your relationship so be careful. I would really recommend reading Combatting Cult Mind Control if you want to try to save this guy. It was the book that helped me see what they really did to get me hooked. I promise when he leaves no one will give a rip. Unless he has big results then he will be slandered and lied about. That is my experience. Many do not want to know the truth or they would have to question their own integrity. It would hurt their business if they told the real truth.

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 3, 2011 4:03 pm

    Teri~
    We are rooting for you! You are handling it way better than I would.
    Just remember to bring your ‘ear plugs’ and possibly a ‘cult expert’ to the meeting, lol!
    Really hit them hard with showing you some ‘hard cold evidence’ of the testimonies of ‘juice’ (illegal) and the income claims (ftc requirements).
    It might help to read here on Amthrax:
    FTC-“Operation Empty Promises!”
    I have confidence you are armed & ready, especially with your background!
    Thanks for keeping us updated!

  36. Teri Brill permalink
    May 3, 2011 6:40 pm

    Thank you for all your help! I will continue to update you as I progress through this process! Hey, I am a mom, the claws come out, and I have a backbone….LOL Last night was a super soft approach for me, since reading these blogs. I have a daughter to consider in this as well. I did tell him she could not come with-in a mile of that “Juice stuff”….wink wink she is highly allergic to any berry, but he does not need to know that 🙂

  37. Teri permalink
    May 8, 2011 6:18 pm

    An update on my guy. After the MKE conference, he seems to have gotten energized (sighs). Instead of just attending the weekly meetings, he is not going out to and I quote :spread the word”. What word is this? I asked him where he saw himself in 2 years, what did he want to gain. His response was to have no debt, pay his mom’s bill’s off so she can retire. Hmm, wonder how this is going to happen? It looks as though this BREW HA HA in MKE did it’s job! I was even sent a video of the inside of the conference, all the chanting etc. YIKES. Made me wanna put ear plugs in and call a CULT expert for the entire room full of people. When I asked about the future and girl friends, spouses etc. I was told that they should be on board, it “would make it difficult to have a relationship, when the other does not participate”.

    Not sure where to go from here. I have started tweeting about TEAM, and Monavie, mostly TEAM. And I am happy to say I have the 2 big guys following me…wink wink

    If I can be a flea on their backs then so be it!

  38. May 9, 2011 10:38 pm

    I have this crazy idea, it would take a lot of courage – I want to go to a meeting and challenge the speaker? When I read what Vogel wrote I knew I wasn’t going to have any luck with my mission of saving my girlfriend.

    This one paragraph stood out, in fact screamed at me!

    ”Her career aspirations (whether she realizes it or not) are to sell fraudulent fruit juice and suck people into a hopelessly corrupt and dishonest pyramid scheme. Can you sit back in good conscience, smile, and let this happen, or is your integrity, self-respect, and compassion for others worth standing up for?”

    I want to STAND UP and confront one of those so respected speakers, and even if I look like the fool, I will know that my heart won out. That I had the courage to at least ask some difficult questions that the typical lemming at these meetings never asked.

    If I was to do this I need some help from anyone willing to give me questions that I can use to hopefully prove to the audience that there is some pretty good doubt to this whole mess. I really think that a new member lacks the courage to question this nonsense. I think that because the new member doesn’t get his/her questions resolved – they instead get indoctrinated into the whole “Fired Up!” mentality.
    They instead buy-in to being a YES man.

    So here is my question: The one thing that bothers me the most is the total number of members – I went to a monthly meeting and the speaker made a big deal about hitting close to 500 people attending. Now there are a total of 15 meetings in Canada and the US, and there are at least 500 in each location that adds up to 7,500 members. That is going to make it difficult for anyone to make money because the numbers are just not there. Not to mention – way, way far from 1,000,000.

    Just saying… Can I get some questions?

  39. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 10, 2011 4:04 am

    A couple of good ones on the MV side would be.

    Why has MV not published an IDS in 2 years and why was the last one they published show over 99% of IBO’s not making any profit after personal use is factored in?

    My Id Number is X,XXX,XXX and the IDS shows less than XXX,XXX making anything, what happened to all the rest of the folks as I find it hard to believe they are all “wholesale customers”?

    Not sure about TEAM but another one would be how many people have signed up for this total and how many are now active? Follw up with “Why the high drop out rate?”

    Expect to be treated as a heckler or “hater” and they will not give factual answers that can be verified independently but you may plant a seed or two.

  40. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 6:56 am

    Here is a BIG question that would make most wonder, Why have most of the BIG leaders left team? People that were making in the $ 90- $100,000++++ a year from Team not Monavie, level left???? People that were very close to Orrin Woodward and people that spoke around the country, had much bigger teams than a lot of people on stage for team today, people that have great character???? And then name the names. Why did they leave Team specifically and Orrin Woodward when most of them are still registered in Monavie????? The question is with the legitimacy of Team not Monavie, they can justify all that away because they believe in the Team life, leadership priniciples. It is easy to believe when you haven’t dealt with the owners up close and personal. All the leaders that left have dealt with the owners Orrin and Co. up close and I would bet have much evidence of the lies that are perpetrated on Team.
    There also is a list of questions above I posted to ask. Ask Team for proof how many are on team and how many are making money and how much, a Team IDS. Bet there won’t be an answer and someone will drag you out or try to shut you up. I don’t think they really believe in freedom of speech. LOL. I would LOVE to see this!!! Take a video….. that would be useful for some humor. Because you posted this they are so paranoid they will have bouncers at the door as I’m sure Orrin is reading this site, Hi Orrin!

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 6:57 am

    Beleagueredboyfriend~
    You could look under FTC Empty Promises Post.

    Too bad we didn’t have this info. ,before we got started!

    Great questions, under webelieved & then under where I posted From the FTC` WEBSITE-WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW. I would love to see them provide this information! Hold them to it, and let them know, this is what the FTC requires them to provide for you! That should be fun 🙂

    I would print those questions. They will NOT allow you to ask questions in the Open Meeting, while they are speaking for everyone to hear. You will have to be relentless because they will answer with standard ‘handling objections cd’ answers for all your questions. I don’t believe they will be prepared for the FTC requirements, lol.

    I highly doubt there is 500 people @ all those locations, do they show the facts on these numbers? NO! That’s just HYPE! I agree with Burned out/MV, be prepared they are going to treat you as an ‘annoyance’ and try and shut you down. Such a shame, any legit company would be happy to answer ALL your questions with full disclosure.

    Honesty, Integrity? That’s what they ‘preach!’

    Good luck, they will look like the fool, NOT you.

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 7:03 am

    Webelieved~Great questions! LOL
    The look on their face when you ask why ALL these BIG leaders left~Priceless 🙂

    BB~There is a whole list of those leaders names under ‘EX-TEAM comments, you should ask those too!

  43. humiliated permalink
    May 10, 2011 7:07 am

    I think that is a fFANTASTIC idea BBF. You are right, it would take courage but maybe you would start a trend! Too bad you didn’t know anyone in the press to attend and write about it. I wasn’t involved with TEAM but I agree that requesting an IDS is probably the most important thing. You could ask to see a copy of their most current contract and see how that reads. I bet there are many loopholes so that they can “restructure” any time they see fit.

    Damn, I am excited for you!

  44. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 7:10 am

    Another great question is, if these leaders built their business on the advertising of passive, residual, ongoing income, then how can Orrin and Policy Council take it away? I know of plenty of leaders listed on this site under ex-team comments that had their profit sharing teams taken away and given to someone else. Their money taken after years of work! Who would build that. Everyone knows their names, they were on top 50 cd packs as well as spoke all over for Team, would they all leave, and lose their integrity all at the same time??? Or….. is Orrin Woodward and the corruption on the Team the common denominator??? Also ask if the speaker was given anyone elses profit sharing groups under the table like other leaders without disclosing it? There are people I know of at the diamond level and higher that recieved very large groups of people, Team ticket and system counts , that are not registered in their monavie business, and that did not bring them to team. They are getting pay and recognition for these groups that would have taken years to build, and do not disclose this. How much of the Team recognition is false and deceptive to the general public? Also you could ask about the product loading to hit new levels and recognition, and bribing people to go on system it seems. That would be an article on Amthrax under Team Volume Loading I think.

  45. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 7:19 am

    I think we would have to go and clean up under the chairs with a pooper scooper cuz people would be s……. their pants!!! Oh i am so picturing this!! It makes me laugh. It is sad how the lies continue!!!! I think the public has a right to freedom of information to make an informed decision. Also you should be shown a directors contract right up front, not after the fact. I WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER BROUGHT ANYONE TO TEAM KNOWING THE LEADERSHIP COULD TAKE MY HARD WORK, MONEY,TEAM, SLANDER ME, DESTROY MY BUSINESS,and CHANGE THINGS WHENEVER THEY WANTED! THAT THEY COULD DESTROY MY BUSINESS IF I REFUSED TO DO THE UNETHICAL THINGS THEY DEMANDED!!! Obviously I had no idea this could happen or I wouldn’t have wasted my time and money!!! There is NO recourse if you feel you have been screwed!!! Too bad for you.

  46. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 8:02 am

    Good luck with it all. You will be treated very badly. But I think if you ask questions when they cannot answer, you will help the leader themselves, think for themselves – which they cannot do….. they have to be spoon fed by their upline and system….. It is sad how brainwashed they all are.

  47. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 8:03 am

    They have been taught they are too stupid to make decisions on their own and think for themselves. No idea is valued unless it comes from the top. Just like a cult.

  48. webelieved permalink
    May 10, 2011 8:07 am

    The question is are you a real leader when all you do is follow and believe whatever some false guru says, or are you a real leader when you look at all sides of a topic and then make an informed decision because you can think for yourself ? I think a real leader values other peoples opinions, including his critics….. Hmmmmm there is a concept. A great book I read that was promoted but I wonder if leadership on Team read it, is The Starfish and the Spider. This is a great leadership book. You can get it at the library for free!!! Sorry for the rant.

  49. beleagueredboyfriend permalink
    May 10, 2011 8:44 am

    @webelieved –
    I am compelled to get that book. One thing I do like about TEAM is there push for good books. The kind of questions I want are ones were I can point out the sheer audacity of their lies – or where they do not elaborate on specifics, and thus give the impression that it is possible – such as the “We’re going to a Million” – when there is no way. Maybe how the “System” concept is explained – I am not sure about the lies there – but, I am sure it is full of lies.

  50. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 8:46 am

    This is going to be fun to hear the conclusion 🙂 Then you could really make it fun and take a bunch of other people you know that aren’t in and have them ask your questions too! I love the ‘press’ idea, maybe you could find one!

    Good luck w/the IDS, there isn’t one! But they do have numbers of all those on system! Everyone knows this by their own group numbers.The comparison of those ‘on system’ vs ‘in’ and buying the ‘juice’,would tell you how many people you have to bring in before you will ever make a dime! How long did it take you to get to the level you are at w/o ‘inventory loading?- (illegal). Didn’t you and all the PC build teams in Quixtar/Amway and bring them over to MV? You could print off the EX-TEAM, Would you have stayed in, POST? Make a bunch of copies so when you ask why some of the bigger leaders quit, you can show them, the truth, you could pass those around.lol! I heard they don’t give you the MV/IDS until AFTER you register? They are suppose to give that with every person they show the plan to! I still believe if you hold them to what the FTC requires, and then document everything they tell you, then you send it over to the FTC!

  51. dmricha permalink
    May 10, 2011 3:15 pm

    I love this! One good thing to ask is about the passive income it’self. During the open they talk about bucket carriers. The exact way can vary from speaker to speaker but it will always end up in the same place. One bucket carrier gets the idea to start his own bucket carrying business. First he does all the work himself. After a bit he gets so much business that he hires a few other people to carry buckets for him. Even though he has other people carrying for him he still has to work a lot of hours managing his business. Another person gets the same idea but instead of carrying buckets he digs a pipeline directly to a village and doesn’t have to worry about managing a business. He just collects the money.

    This is supposed to show the benefits of a passive income which is what the TEAM system is supposed to teach you how to build with MV products.

    The guy who built the pipeline owns it as well as the water flowing through. With a MV business you don’t own anything. Since MV owns the product if they go away then so does your money. The same with TEAM any money you make from TEAM goes away on that lucky day when Orrin and Chris get put in jail. Since you don’t own anything how are you and Independent Business Owner? If you’re constantly having to recruit people and depend on others to recruit how is this passive income? Even with others recruiting on your behalf you still have to play a leadership role.

    You should also ask about the tax benefits. TEAM will tell you that almost everything you do is tax deductible. That’s not entirely true. The IRS says that you have to show a history of making profit to be able to take those deductions. You can put them down all you want but that doesn’t mean that the IRS will take them. Here is what they say http://1.usa.gov/kQWno4

    Since you have to build your apprentice leg first there are no tax deductions in your future for awhile if ever.

    Also ask about cost. Ask them how much does it take to show the plan. You’ll need to buy a few $25 first night packs to show the plan without your upline. They”ll let you borrow for awhile but eventually they make you buy your own. Ask them how much money they spend “running the roads”. How many extra cases of juice and extra tools do they need to buy to be considered a leader? They say that the business only cost a hundred to start but once you’ve started it cost thousands just to keep up.

    Ask them about Amway too. Ask why they left the company and if it was their choice or Orrin’s. You can also ask about the Forbes article done on Orrin back in 08. They like to talk about TEAM and MV in magazines but I bet they won’t talk about that. There is a link to it on the side bar.

    Also you should clarify that Dallin was the emerging entrepreneur of the year in 09 not the over all winner for Ernst and Young.

    If this was a Tuesday night back in my TEAM days I would be making sure we had enough EMV to sell for the open. Instead I’m trying to convince my two year old that the baby can not come out of mommy’s tummy to play. I’m happy with the trade off.

  52. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 7:02 pm

    dmricha~ You made some great points!! My favorite one is: “The same with TEAM any money you make from TEAM goes away on that lucky day when Orrin and Chris get put in jail.”
    Way to put it out there! The ‘pipeline’ & ‘bucket carrying’ still the same ole lie, ‘just turn the switch on & the money continues to flow, ‘b-type business!’

    You nailed it with this: “With a MV business you don’t own anything. Since MV owns the product if they go away then so does your money. The same with TEAM any money you make from TEAM goes away on that lucky day when Orrin and Chris get put in jail. Since you don’t own anything how are you and Independent Business Owner? If you’re constantly having to recruit people and depend on others to recruit how is this passive income?”

    They have been deceiving & mis-leading w/ this in Amway for 50 years!
    Now, just repeated in MV & Team. Dallin obviously owns MV (not sure if Henry Marsh is co-owner), but that would leave all the others OUT as OWNERS and the Signature Mng. Team (system bus.) Orrin OWNS~the PC doesn’t even OWN the ‘business or business system’ unless it changed since 2007, and there is some other ‘special deal?’ They say there are no ‘special deals..sure?’ Sounds like Orrin got a ‘special deal’ when he went to MV. Woodward is sole owner of the ‘business system’ so everything they tell you about being a ‘b-business’ owner is a lie!
    Mis-leading and deceptive!

    BB-When you get to the meeting look around and unless Orrin’s in the room there isn’t anyone owning anything, well until you spend your $$ on the ‘tools’ then you get to own something! So why is the ‘system’ the only thing Orrin really promotes and can dump and MLM hop, anytime?
    MONEY!

    Ask if Orrin got PAID & HOW MUCH, to convince the Team of people to go to Monavie? IF so, did everyone else that did the work get that deal or did he SHARE that with them?

  53. Dorothy permalink
    May 10, 2011 9:20 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  54. not notsigned up yet permalink
    June 13, 2011 11:20 am

    I was given the IDS and comp plan. I was alos give links, articles and othe rmaterial, but it was all controlled and everything was putting TEAM/MOnavie in a positve light. I was told that there was goign to be negative stuff out tehre but not to believe it.

    Well I found this blog and hte forbes article, and was able to confrim alot of thigns that TzEAM doesnt want youto know. I asked questions about teh 99 percent failure rate and I was given nebulous answers.

    I asked my sponsor if I could talk with their sponsor/mentor/handler/controller and they said sure. Call him and get with him and it will be awesone. Well…he had two otehr guys with him so we couldnt really tallk and all we did was drive to go show a house plan, which amazingly was th exact same pitch as at the open meetings.

  55. webelieved permalink
    June 13, 2011 7:36 pm

    Dorothy- I missed your post, I am sorry all was lost. I hope someday your mate wakes up from the stupor!!

    Not signed up- I think it is funny they warned you of the negative out there. Taking you in the car to a house meeting. Ask the hard questions in front of the other prospects and you will be shunned!
    They will treat you like you are not in the know, ignorant etc. You will be in exile fast!!!

  56. not signed up yet permalink
    June 13, 2011 8:52 pm

    I have owned a legitimate buess for well over 10 years. Its pretty simple…do a job and get paid and charge my customers a percentage over my costs so I can make a profit and stay in business. I do not understand PV and pints and selling it to ourselves and the bubble team is in. Its interesting that they dont sell MV or tools outside thier group. Any way…jsut ask a leader or mentor hanlder simple legitimate business questions and watch them get nervous or deflect you.

    Ask about cost control or budgeting and they look at you like those are not part of business. In fact they are.
    I beleive in not spending money I dotn ahve but TEAM doesnt and thats clear.

    I really dont understand how thier business model works exspecially in this economy with the unemployment rate so high. You can make moeny but you have to spend 500 bucks or more a month. attend meetigns trainigns essions, seminars for 2 to 5 years, then maybe you will see a ROI. I was covering my costs and profitable with my business within 6 months. I did it through ahving a great advisors, a good amrketing strategy and being conservative on the spending.

    I was hoping to talk to the mentor one on one on the way to the house plan, but with two other guys I kidna just went along for the ride and kept my mouth shut.

    Even though I have been to several opens and soem webinars, I dont conider it wasted time…observing how these people operate and behave has been interesting and frankly a bit scary.

  57. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 13, 2011 11:40 pm

    not signed up yet~
    Their business model doesn’t work; for the largest,majority. They will work hard to continue to keep you ‘hoping and believing’ that you will get wealthy’ and be that 1% someday when you can be ‘a leader’ like the other ‘guru’s’ otherwise, there are a few catagories people fall into. The Majority, 99% who continue to put thier hard earned monthly bill money, into the pot where it is transfered to those 6 or so families at the top, and a few other pittance is passed along, while MOST continue to lose or if you find away to con enough to keep doing it over years and years you might eek out a pittance.

    Frighting and dishearting, we could have kept that for our families. It is disturbing how much money we made and put back into the system business but the real truth was revealed when, we woke up from the slumber and actually looked at the money after taxes it was pathetic and wow what a lie.
    I could have personally made more on a part time job.

    Otherwise, you will fall into the smarter majority that wake up before thousands and thousabds with no return and quit or the largest majority quit in the first year before too much damage, but enough is done.

    And lastly the smartest group, which you fall into, that actually look at both sides and use your common sense and critically thinking skills, evaluate, before you never get signed up. Those, like you keep your emotions out of it, but the majority that gets sucked in don’t. This is the most disturbing and what they are preying on and makes me angry. They prey on those who are vulnerable for many reasons in their individual lives, by making promises of riches and wealth and they offer the solution to every problem in their life.
    My hope is in; God is just, and justice will be served.

  58. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 13, 2011 11:47 pm

    Wonder how beleagueredboyfriend is doing? think we need an update.
    Hope all has worked out there and for his family.

  59. webelieved permalink
    June 14, 2011 5:05 am

    Supporting the Team system is so expensive that a person cannot possibly make a real profit for years!! It is sad they want you to go on trust, work for years and then maybe you will make a profit with their system. So you trust them and repeat the promises to others and then wholla you are trapped for years! You work and work and if it doesn’t happen, you blame yourself because that is what they teach you , It’s your fault. It could never be, people quit because they cannot sustain the expense you put on them, or maybe they don’t like the brainwashing. You are taught that people who quit must have a character issues, like they are lazy and don’t want to do the work, don’t have a big enough dream, they want to work at a j.o.b. for the rest of their lives. As if the leaders themselves are not working more then a fulltime second shift job?
    You can’t quit and give up when you have already invested so much time and money and brought people in. Why do you think they tell you two to five years? To keep you hoping, and spending your money.
    We spent much more on the Team system then on the product, and Team results are not proven when less than one percent of people who get in and register make a profit.
    Just check out all the people terminated on the tree, I hear it is a lot! Are all those people losers or is there something wrong with the duplicatable Team training system that we are ignoring?
    Didn’t those people join because they had a dream? They quit because for some reason they didn’t believe they could get their dream with TEAM ? If Team is as great as they say wouldn’t they all stay in?

  60. webelieved permalink
    June 14, 2011 5:11 am

    If all these people would have put their energy and money into a real education, or started their own business and joined a church or community group for some good association, they would be much farther ahead. Unfortunatley promising your dreams sucks these hurting people into Team’s lies and deception.

  61. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 14, 2011 11:09 am

    What is an amazing the way they get people to overlook their common sense and accept their double standards and double speak (which equates to double trouble).

    They tell you it is all about the Dream, ‘everything begins with a Dream, don’t let anyone steal your Dream, if the Dream is big enough the facts don’t count.’ But in reality it is a fantasy, with the largest majority who end up walking away with huge losses to never achieve ‘their dreams’ through the Team. Team breeds greed, they through repitition (indoctrination) and enticement ( you can be wealthy and have our life of implied limited cash, just look at all our possessions, you can have all of this if…) The if is; you continue to work like a horse, don’t look at or face the facts that you are losing by hundreds every month for 2-5 years to realize you are not even close to any dreams more like a nightmare of a mound of debt.
    Another thing they do is push their Dreams off on you, they have standard dreams everyone is expected to have.

    I remember telling my upline (PC- a 1000 pin at the time) I don’t like to travel, so what did he do everytime in the open’s call on me to say where I would like to travel? wth? Control freak first off, then the other thing is there is a set of standard ‘dreams’ that they think everyone fits in to the Dream box. They are in the business to change peoples beliefs and give false hope. How arrogant, they want you to conform to them because they are so full of themselves they believe they know what YOU should do and want with your own life? How clear this becomes when you reflect on all they tell you and how they push their beliefs off on others.

    Complete control freaks, they want to tell you how to dress, what to watch or not, read, your dreams and goals should be the same as theirs and you better participate and promote them and the ‘million people’ goal, it is how they identify your loyality by how much you edify the one and ONLY-Orrin (cult)

    ONE example from our experience: Orrin wanted us to move near him and when we didn’t this obviously hurt his ego, it was sublte but obvious in his comments and then slowly his actions and was a red mark on the ‘complete loyality and conformity’; mental checklist.
    Well, why would we let Orrin decide where we should live?

    They will test people’s loyality to them continueously, PAY ATTENTION, they will treat you with a distance as soon as you aren’t what they believe is 100% loyal, I call it control and paranoia and is how cult leaders act.
    We never had a Dream to live in Michigan and if Flordia became an option it definitely wouldn’t be near HIM! I dislike control freaks with a passion!

    You aren’t in a ‘business of ‘hope and dreams’ you are in a nightmare of false hope, complete control freaks and their goal is; to change YOUR BELIEFS to conform to theirs in all areas and for you to continue to give your money on a constant flow, for their Dreams while you realize you are going broke.
    That would be SLAVERY!
    NO THANKS.

  62. not signed up yet permalink
    June 14, 2011 12:27 pm

    How true. I can confirm everything you said and I am not even in team. I saw all this from observation.
    I have seen my sponsor on script and say the exact things they said to me to otehr people that they invited.
    The false edification and kiss ass mentaility runs pretty high. I told my sponsor at the begiinning that I am a big picture guy and need to see the whole operation before I decided. I ahve not seen anyhting expet what they want me to see.

    My sponsor told he didnt watch tv. I thought that was cool, until I found out it was the team that told him not to.

    My sponsor reads 5-6 books a month. I found out that all those books were from teams required reading list.

    My sponsor does the 2-3 cds a day while he goes on endless appointments. I thought lsitening to motivational Cds is cool. I found out that its a TEAm requirement. Persoanlly I;d rather be lsitieng to Florence and the Macine when I am driivng, but tahts jsut me.

    Some of the single women told me that they only want to date and marry a guy on the team becasue they have principles that they were looking for. When I asked what those were exactly…I really didnt get a clear answer.

    Does team really select who you date and marry for you? Thats damn scary.

    The evidence of brainswashing and control is pretty clear. I got chills one tiem when my sponsor told me “Do what WE tell you to do, follow the SYSTEM and you cant fail”

    I responded “What if the system fails?”

    I got an interesting non-answer. I wish I could call teh Attorney General and get these creeps investiageted, but something tells me this group is prepared for that.

  63. switch permalink
    June 14, 2011 1:28 pm

    Bone CHILLING!! Absolute shivers up/down my spine.

    “Control Freak”……HHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMM……now that sounds way too familiar and hits close to home.

  64. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 15, 2011 4:05 pm

    not signed up yet~ I agree pretty scary they are looking for marriage within, kinda like keepin it in the family, lol
    Yea we already know they are the only ones who live on principle in the entire universe, how self-deceived they are. Too bad they refuse to take their blinders off , so laughable they never have an answer but are quick to spew the robotic jargon.

    Switch~
    I am sure there are thousands more stories that can be told on how the Control Freaks try and control every area of others lives. Share yours.

    Here’s another one; had a leader on our team that hadn’t read the bible and was asking which version she should read. The dictator PC with an absolute tone said the King James, nothing wrong with that other than this person was looking for a beginner one, so other suggestions were made and with the internet you can look up all versions from one website.
    But NO the pride and arrogance reared its ugly head, it was another Control Freak issue and PC denounced all suggestions and again threw the weight of ‘listen to me’ with out saying it of course, just their silenced arrogant- self-importance, and who questions the PC?
    Many people do they, just don’t think out loud!

    Yes, experienced this myself also, they wanted to know what bible version and what books you are reading at all times. I had the PC ask me to send a version I had( I have many) to them so they could analyize, yep 50 dollar bible they wanted me to just give them for free and ship to boot. You can probably guess what I did. Pretty sure after bragging to me you have a $100,000 in one of your personal savings account you can afford it yourself. They are so controlling in most cases, they strip people of their own and others, free will.
    Didn’t God himself give us a free will? Unbelievable how prideful when I reflect on the control issues we witnessed personally and through others. But you know the saying, its ‘the pride before the fall!’

    Another example of information control, don’t want any t.v., listen to music, read books, magazines,not even family or friends that are on team, only team cd’s, and whatever you do don’t read the internet LOL (they are just a bunch of poverty sucking, lying critics, broke losers without a dream and no success, that don’t have any proof, lOl)
    It’s like their head will explode and their eyes might bulge out, geez no wonder why they don’t take their blindfold off and address the real issues, they would see the truth if they did.

    Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional, CONTROL; they are control freaks, that cause oppression period, and an exact fit to a destructive cult according to the BITE Model.
    Bone chilling it is! Until you can get free!

  65. Dorothy permalink
    June 15, 2011 10:02 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  66. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 16, 2011 2:02 am

    Dorothy~ I would agree they do not pressure anyone from stage on what bible to read, but when you get behind the scenes and are up close and personal with PC, then they have and do at least in our experience and leaders. The religious pressure is done and expected through counseling, and spending time with the PC, as with a lot of other things the pressure it is applied some times subtly and in other cases direct, our case counseling was very direct in all areas.

    They must have changed the tune on the music, they never really come out and say it direct but have many ways of getting the message across, but again the higher you get the more the pressure of being the example of what to do and not to do. If you don’t see them do it then you don’t.

    I have been with a different PC’s once in the entire time in the business when music was played once in the car and not a cd or nothing at all. Leaders were expected to listen to 3-4 Cds per day and it wasn’t music cd’s unless you had the music cuts. Just our experience.

    They don’t do anything by direct force, too bad, they wouldn’t be around a day if that was the case.
    That is why they have use deception and feed the info slowly.
    Also, the lack of transparency and honesty when people sign up, and withholding information on a need to know basis, the higher up the more is revealed, is how they control too.
    Most people wouldn’t even sign up if the control was that obvious from the start.
    It is done subtly through peer pressure, degrading everything outside of the enviroment, guilt tactics-leaders do this and leaders don’t do that etc. and in counseling.

    I agree the pressure is and always has been, PP, pushing tickets and system, nothing new, anyone who continually does that doesn’t have time for anything else.

    Build and replace, 98% would be starting from scratch, and the growth of new people are anything to brag about either that is so unsatainable, I don’t know how they are getting people to believe the hype the brutal reality is right in front of their faces. Wonder how they are keeping them distracted and not asking questions about from those facts.
    So as it always has been doesn’t matter about the facts(only if the facts are in their favor) it is about convincing others long enough to spend penny on system, build, or supply names until you find the next builder, then those who don’t build (nosepickers & other nice names they have for them) will be left in the dust. The PC and speakers control what they want you to focus by their repititious talks, from stage month after month. I will say I have never seen the drop out rate that atrocious.
    Thank God we are free and no longer under the cloud of denial, dellusion and undue influence!

  67. webelieved permalink
    June 16, 2011 8:08 am

    You guys are right…. It is like an addiction, and idol….. It takes all the life our of your LIFE. You become a Team Robot. Just keep going… going… going. Replacing, replacing is the name of the game. And keep feeding the controlled information slowly, and take away their ability to critically think, so they can take it and we don’t blow them out!!! Don’t tell them all they have to give up to be on TEAM and surely don’t tell them it is not passive and TEAM and Orrin can take it away and destroy all they have built after they worked their asses off and spent hundreds of thousands building their so called TEAM business!!!
    What CRAP it is!!!!
    So glad to be FREE of the lies and manipulation!!!!

  68. switch permalink
    June 16, 2011 1:56 pm

    Ha!…….Well, the only thing I see is THIS pack of “replacables” are coming back to bite them in the A$$!!!!

    I’ll be back to talk about the “control freak” aspect.

  69. June 16, 2011 2:27 pm

    While the PC leaders don’t want their downline to be watching TV, reading the newspaper, movies, listening to music, etc, did you find that they themselves were up-to-date on current events, the latest entertainment news and all?

  70. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 16, 2011 3:13 pm

    Amthrax~
    I would say they are current but never talk about current events. They wouldn’t want others to start reading newspapers or start watching CNN (constant negative news their terms) because they need to control the info coming in and you not get distracted otherwise you won’t listen to them and build.
    If you hear something repeated enough times whether it’s true or a lie, people will begin to believe it.

    Doesn’t matter what you believe; it is wrong they berate others for reading or watching what they choose.
    That would be their own free choice. I know Larry Vanbuskirk talked about it once and pretty sure it’s on a cd that he read a major newspaper everyday. One would only have to read their blogs or listen to them speak once to figure out they talk about the goverment (how bad it is) all the time. And they seem to know who they want you to vote for too. I have seen many Political Speakers on the Q/Amway stage and Team of Destiny Stage, I would say the Team stage but time runs together.

    NO DOUBT there is a political agenda (repulican) along with the religious agenda (baptist, KING James Version of bible) and I would never be fooled that they are not keeping up on current events or who is running for office. So before someone comes on here to argue, it Doesn’t matter what your beliefs are that is not my point, the point is they have an agenda period.

  71. webelieved permalink
    June 16, 2011 4:17 pm

    You know damm well Orrin keeps up on current events so he can use it to manipulate people writing articles and speeches. He also likes to make fun of things to create a us, TEam and them, ordinary, uninlightened people. THis is a us vs them mentality that cults also use. I remember when I stopped attending and watched some movies I felt really guilty! It was bizarre and I have to say I didn’t live in the real world for years. There are a lot of world and national events, movies, tv shows, etc that happened that I never knew about, things I would hear about years later. We also we didn’t have tv/cable for years, we wouldn’t have had time to watch it anyway we were working so much. We were in the Team bubble. Their joke was “If something happens someone will call and let you know.” Funny how they themselves keep up with it all.
    They also tell you not to read books outside the system, and then they do and give you a book report you have to buy a ticket for! They are so smart! LOL 🙂

  72. webelieved permalink
    June 16, 2011 4:20 pm

    Speak ditto! – NO DOUBT there is a political agenda (repulican) along with the religious agenda (baptist, KING James Version of bible) and I would never be fooled that they are not keeping up on current events or who is running for office.

  73. webelieved permalink
    June 16, 2011 8:01 pm

    When there is an adgenda to get you to think and vote the way TEAM wants you to and they conceal it, I believe it is wrong. It should be stated up front. I.e. We are a group that are Christian Republicans with strong beliefs, this major we have a Republican Sentator speaking on conservative politics.
    Not… take someone who has no idea what is coming, sell them a ticket, and then an opposite opinion then what they believe in is crammed down their throat! Before someone comes here and attacks thinking I am of a differing polictical party, I want to say up front I am a Christian and usually vote Republican!

  74. switch permalink
    June 16, 2011 8:20 pm

    So, in order to fit in “well”, you must abide by the right wing perspective???? I’m sorry, but that’s just WRONG to bring into this whole disaster and it doesn’t matter what side they favor.

    Please note teamers…..this is where the “control freak”, “mind-manipulation” comes into play.

    Geeeez, and they preach about our freedoms being ripped away…..

  75. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 16, 2011 9:21 pm

    Switch
    I agree it’s not about what you believe, its about the freedom to believe without undue influence!

  76. Dorothy permalink
    June 16, 2011 11:26 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  77. Dorothy permalink
    June 16, 2011 11:31 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  78. Dorothy permalink
    June 16, 2011 11:39 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  79. Burned Out With MV permalink
    June 17, 2011 4:10 am

    They are not the first group to spin religion to fit their needs, nor will they be the last, guess that has been going on since Moses wore short pants.

  80. not signed up yet permalink
    June 17, 2011 8:03 am

    Well I will admit I am a republican and conservative and Christian, but I beleive in freedom and will never tell anyone how to vote who to vote for or what you should think even if I disagree with your views.

    There is defiantely control and manipulation going on, however I agree with what other posters have said it is slow and subtle, they work on emotions not logic and reason or even common sense. I am actually glad I went to several opens and a couple webinars…granted the information was the same, but my observations of the leaders and teambots showed me alot.

    At first I hated to use the term brainwash, but the more I hear my sponsor talk the more evidence there is of it. My sponsor really is a good guy, I have no hard feelign at him. I just think he is misguided and involved with a dangerous organization.

    Whats scary is if Orrin and the Leaders announced at a major the next big thing for team, but not say what it is and get everyone fired up, then when they launch the “thing” its for all the team to jump in a volcano, the teambots probably would.

    I dotn wanna get all conspiracy theory but I really wonder if there is soemthing in the juice or soem sorta subliminal material in the CDs that is getting into the team bots head. That specific lagnuage was used with me one night when we went “to the trunk”. I was handed a dozen CDS told I could hang on to them as long as I wanted…listen to them as long as I wanted but the poitn was to “get that information in my head”

  81. webelieved permalink
    June 17, 2011 8:04 pm

    Of course they took you to the trunk and picked out cds that would fit your situation and your thinking… To get you thinking in the “right direction”. Let me guess one was called Handling Objections? Oh yeah a cd is made for every situation. That’s the system, used to manipulate your thinking so you’ll question yourself and then add to that deception and you will stick around long enough to line a few families’ pockets. There was an article I believe by Chris or Orrin, “FIgures don’t lie but Liars sure do figure”. That one was for people like you with critical thinking skills, people who ask questions on how many seem to not make it on Team, and for people who read critical websites.
    Too funny I believed all that crap.

  82. not signed up yet permalink
    June 17, 2011 8:15 pm

    Havent heard the objextions CD, but Ild love too. Of course none of the Cds I ahve actually tell you how to build or run a business its all the emotional touchy feely stuff. I did get the culture pack and the Monavie. I am seeing how this works. I was gonna give my guy teh Cds back, and he said “Its okay, listen to them again.”

    Mmmm hmmm.

  83. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 17, 2011 11:45 pm

    That is hilarious, and yes i agree they would have picked out which one’s that best fit your personality and what kind of objections you are giving them! LOL Yep a little strategic manipulation!

  84. Dorothy permalink
    June 18, 2011 5:32 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  85. webelieved permalink
    June 19, 2011 3:03 pm

    Dorothy- Just wondering, are you quoting the Culture Pack or the Leader you talked to?

  86. webelieved permalink
    June 19, 2011 3:15 pm

    Not Signed Yet- LOL, listen to them again! Of course they want you to do that so you will be brainwashed to their way of thinking! That makes it so obvious! They never tell you any hard facts, like how many start, how many quit, how many quit over past 15 years out of how many signed up. Or how figure out net vs gross profit, well if they talked about that everyone would quit.
    Or how about making thier contracts public? NO NEVER. Leaders cannot get copies of the contracts they signed! And they were only were given 5 minutes to sign them, all 20-30 pages and they wouldn’t allow them to take them home or to their attorney! What real business does that? Not a real legitimate business! Orrin should get a new name, The JOKER!!!

  87. Dorothy permalink
    June 20, 2011 8:06 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: