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The Most Important Thing You Can Do… For TEAM

April 25, 2011

If you are a TEAM member, why is it the most important thing you can do right now is never something that demonstrably advanced your business, only TEAM’s?

For instance, according to George Guzzardo, a chief lieutenant in Orrin Woodward’s TEAM organization, the most important thing you can do right now is to attend its Leadership Conference at the end of the week.

If I was to tell you to do one thing that could change what you wanted to improve the most, would you do it? Would you put a disclaimer on it by saying, “It depends?” Based on the thousands of people with proven results, I learned that the ONE THING would be to attend the next available major convention. This springs convention will be held in Milwaukee on the 29th of April through the 1st of May.

Stop me if I’ve heard this one before. And these too:

  • The most important thing to do on Tuesday night? Attend your weekly TEAM meeting.
  • The most important thing to do one Saturday a month? Attend the monthly TEAM meeting.
  • The most important thing to do every three months? Attend the next TEAM Major Function.
  • The most important thing to do at other times? Reading the books and listening to the CDs.

Can we see a pattern developing here? It’s always about doing something for TEAM. 17-27% of every month is devoted to attending meetings. That’s four weekly meetings, one monthly meeting and one major function every three months. Beyond the meetings, it’s get on the leadership training system. Listen to the CDs, read the books, get your website, business cards, and branded emails.

With all the things that distributors are doing for TEAM, it’s no wonder that no one is making any money. People are spending so much time making money for TEAM, they have no time to actually sell products1 and build their business.

Of course, TEAM will tell you that all of these meetings and tools are essential to your success. But are they really? Are they directly related to making your business profitable?

When a distributor actually sits down and crunches the numbers — and don’t give me TEAM-ism about if the dream is big enough the facts don’t count — he or she will quickly discover that there’s very little money being made for anyone but TEAM. If they move away from promoting MonaVie, how are distributors going to make money? By selling other people leadership training materials? That doesn’t exactly sound like a scalable solution to me.

Before you give more money to Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and TEAM, think about what the most important thing you can do for your business. You may find it’s not the same thing as the most important thing you can do for TEAM.

1 On the flip side, it is hard to sell $40 bottles of purple juice concentrate.

48 Comments leave one →
  1. April 25, 2011 8:43 am

    The most important thing you can do for your business is look at the cold hard facts, as you’ve stated above! Where is your time, and your money going? Trust me…it’s not being invested in your business. “17 – 27% of every month is devoted to attending meetings” , and that’s just the official meetings! What about all the meeting after the meetings, the contacting sessions, various “qualifier” meetings that are held through out each month? It’s a full time job just listening, reading, and attending! Where is your time and money going?

    Major Leaderships are the biggest scam of them all! Go ahead….travel half way across North America to get “Fired Up”! Spend the hundreds of dollars in gas, food, hotel bills, to get there and back! I’m sure there is going to be a HUGE announcement that you won’t want to miss! It’ll change your business….forever! Get there extra early so you can wait in line for hours dressed in a blue suit, white shirt and red tie! Buy all the new Team gear that Orrin and the boys have thought up over the past 3 months. T-shirts, sweaters, stuffed animals, and of course all the newest CD packs that will take your business to the next level! Don’t worry….in three more months…you can do it all over again! IT NEVER ENDS…..THAT’S THE POINT! Welcome to the rest of your life…….unless… get out. Amthrax……Team literally banks on the fact that “IBO’s” won’t crunch the numbers. I mean why would their leaders take advantage of them? Don’t they have a vested interest in their success? LOL! Oh they have a vested interest all right….in YOU going to the next event!

  2. Burned Out With MV permalink
    April 26, 2011 7:13 am

    Every time I see a new spin on “meeting mania” weekly, monthly, quarterly or “pitching the plan” to any living creature with a pulse in any open forum. I always like to remind the folks that “If anyone you see in the room is not in your direct downline or is not someone who is putting people in your direct downline, they are your competition”.

    Now there is a sobering thought for someone who is just getting started with this crap and bragging about how many folks were at the last event they attended.

  3. TOD permalink
    April 26, 2011 5:31 pm

    Thousands of people with proven results? There has never beens thousands of people with proven results on Team. NEVER! There are barely thousands of people still in Team. I guess the results are proven… proven to suck.

    Thanks, but I will be staying home tonight.

  4. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 26, 2011 9:19 pm

    “The Most Important Thing You Can Do For The Team”

    STOP SPENDING YOUR MONEY AND TIME on the ‘Leadership Conventions!’

    I figured out we went to about 48 or more of these ‘Conventions’ @ $90-$125 per ticket!

    I promise you Nothing will ‘changed for us’ or will ‘change’ for you to make more money in your business. It will COST you about $500 per couple for the weekend (not including your next tickets or tools) for you to be told to “Go build ‘your’ (PC’s) Business! You thought it was for you? This is the BIGGEST PAYDAY, for the RT (round-table) and above! Trust me we made thousands & thousands of dollars off of the ‘Leadership Convention & Tools’ sold there and that is petty cash to what the Policy Counsel makes off of just ONE Convention!

    STAY HOME, Spend that time with your family! Save your Time & Money, You won’t miss a thing!
    There can’t be any recognition to speak of, so you won’t miss anything there either!

    You will get all the ‘information you just can’t miss’ on your next shipment of your CD of the week! The only thing you will miss is spending $250/single-$500/couple, on travel, hotel, food, you will be sleep deprived and when you get there they will pressure sell you into buying as many tools as they can get you to compulsively buy!

    You will also have to buy (the most important thing to do next) your next ‘Leadership Ticket’, another 90 bucks, ‘if you are a leader and expect to have success,’ because you CAN’T miss it unless it is ‘your own funeral!’ So, in reality depending how ‘excited from the motivation/brainwashed’ and how much false hope you to ‘buy into’ it could cost you way more!

    TOD-You beat me to it; who (with names & schedule C’s) of the THOUSANDS of people with ‘Proven Results?’ What a LIE! Why would George lie like that? “Proven to Suck”~LOL and ‘Proven’ that 99% of you will never make more than you spend by thousands in comparison!

    Don’t worry they won’t teach that nor how to run your business and won’t teach you how to sell the ‘juice’ either! Wouldn’t that be the most important thing IF you are to get ‘passive residual income?’ Where else would it come from? LOL

    It is all a bunch of temporary ‘Motivation’ that won’t build your business!!
    I too will stay home and enjoy my family and save my $$$$!!!

  5. Dororthy permalink
    April 27, 2011 10:51 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  6. Dororthy permalink
    April 27, 2011 10:52 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  7. April 28, 2011 9:46 am

    Thanks. I never understood what the “ticket holder” event was all about until you just explained it.

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 28, 2011 2:29 pm

    Exactly, webeleived!
    Same applies with system, if someone went off of system, then you had to tell them they would have to get ‘one’ more shipment because it was a week behind in shipment, funny thing they never had to wait a week when they got on system!
    It is just BS~ you can’t stop it the same day you cancel it!
    And again, if they refused to take it, you ate their system for that week!
    So, their ‘return policy’ is bullsh*t and always has been, it ‘appears’ for the TEAM only that they have good ‘customer service,’ it was the LEADERS who kept them from losing a dime and out of the target with the BBB!
    Their wasn’t a ‘real’ leader that didn’t KNOW they were to eat the costs, no matter what it was and DON’T expect your PC (the only ones making the real money) to pay for Anything!
    The ONLY way the Team Office would take that responsibility was if someone went to the BBB or raised enough ‘stink’ to get a refund~But it NEVER would have been a leader!
    This is an extremely sore spot, especially when they knew the garbage would be obsolete (repeated times) right after they just promoted a special ‘media war promotion!’ Buy tool trunks!
    These heartless, greedy (many more choice words) didn’t give one thought about the 100’s of people just over spent (their personal bill money and quit because of it!) 1000’s of dollars, for their worthless obsolete information, to line the PC pockets, they seriously discust me!
    The team office wouldn’t buy it back, “The buck stopped with YOU!”
    We never in the history of our business had the Team Office but anything back, not 1 flippin cd!

    Leaders were expected to take care of it! I cannot wait for the day this comes back around!

  9. April 29, 2011 5:33 am

    SYT – You are so right! I ate my share of tools over the years! Hated when people went off system, and I had to eat it! Also near the end of my time with Team was when they were switching all the tools and strategy for building Monavie….. Wow that was expensive! They changed things every couple weeks it seemed… and guess who was left holding the bag?! The lower level leaders. Turbo 50’s, Turbo 100’s, etc! This is one cost I didn’t factor into being on system…..I should have added another line….if your a “Leader” be prepared to eat other people’s tools! Makes me mad just thinking about it…….

  10. aurora permalink
    April 29, 2011 5:02 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  11. aurora permalink
    April 29, 2011 5:05 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  12. TOD permalink
    April 29, 2011 12:06 pm

    Punisher- I agree, ‘six this’ was the last straw for me. I finally realized they had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 29, 2011 12:30 pm

    10th planet~LOL, that’s histerical~ It isn’t funny though when they went from tapes to Cd’s, oh how I wish we had all that money!
    I dug out all the tapes that were in the basement this last year and took them to the dump~6000 TAPES!
    And the greedy thieves never even cared that people just dumped their stock and started over!

    MLM~same with the repeated “mlm hopping” and name changing they knew everyone had to dump and restock, it makes me sick that they EXPECT people to continue to Throw their money in the garbage and have the audacity to tell people they will make money and be able to quit their jobs!
    Not one discount or offer or buy back, they knew the ‘leaders’ were the ones buying the ‘tool trunks’ buying into the promotions, boards & easels and everything else they expected leaders to buy!
    Leaders had the x-tra stock to sell to their teams,10’s of THOUSANDS more dollars spent, hence why we have 3 xtra boards & easels and 10’s of thousands of dollars worth of cd’s and books!
    Then expect you to hit a goal in between the Majors and all the other Seminars, Plans and Business crap, stop building your business (not for a family vacation, God knows we needed it!) to spend way more money to fly down (many times) to the Master Thieves houses & Yacht so you could come back ‘promote-BRAG to your team & and try and recover from that financial loss!
    Then every New Years they wanted everyone (didn’t matter where you lived) to drive all the way to Michigan to attend a ‘New Years Eve’ get together! More $$$$ lost and stupidity to drive that distance on the worst night of the year and you either drove home afterwards (10 hours) or spent more $$ on a hotel. Another waste of time & money, that DID NOT build your business!!!!
    Unbelievable what we did and how much time and money wasted & Lost!
    Added up collectively it is MILLIONS and lifetimes worth of time!!!
    That is why they can brag about their Millions & Lifestyle because everyone else gave theirs up!

  14. CloserThanUThink permalink
    April 30, 2011 9:48 am

    I am so glad NOT to be sitting in an arena all day with 20,000, er 15,000, uh maybe 10,000 other people worshiping the almighty TEAM. It will be interesting to hear all the Teambots quoting their numbers at the major. Take note the the arena can hold 12,000 people MAX (per the US Cellular website). A far cry from the 20,000 to 30,000 pre-MV, if those numbers were true.

    To follow the line of this post, the most important thing I can do for MY team is to attend my daughter’s confirmation at church tomorrow! So glad to have realigned my priorities to what they should be, like so many others on this site. To all here – enjoy your weekend of FREEDOM!!!

  15. April 30, 2011 10:31 am

    Enjoy your daughter’s confirmation tomorrow! Thanks for the info on the capacity of US Cellular Arena. Here’s a photo taken by a TEAM member from Friday-night. Here’s another photo that shows most of the arena.

    How many people you think there are?

  16. CloserThanUThink permalink
    April 30, 2011 11:33 am

    Thanks, Amthrax, I know I will! The second picture gives a good idea of the stage setup, I’ll give them 9000 people (the website does a good job showing the stage setup, sight-lines, and capacity). Would you like to establish an over/under of what the TEAMbots will say – I’ll guess 15,000. Knowing the Supreme Leaders they’ll probably sum the three days together to establish a “New attendance record!” LMAO! And regarding the first picture, what a sad title, “This is a picture of Hope”, placing your future (and presence) in the hands of people you really don’t know. I pray people continue to find this site and listen to the real TRUTH spoken by these people who have been there, done that!

  17. Reality Check permalink
    April 30, 2011 8:38 pm

    The arena is always cut by a third to one half to put in the stage and then then upper deck is never used or full. Many empty seats in the main crowd. I say they have around 7k plus or minus 500 and this is being generous. Everyone knows the numbers are stagnet at best.

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 30, 2011 10:33 pm

    I agree, Reality Check~The stage is set up that way because they don’t have the numbers to fill it. Even if they have 8000 @ $125 per ticket would be
    1 million bucks~ that’ why Orrin says in his tweet,Lifes good!

    Still it is a far cry from “60,000 mostly middle-class,” oh that’s right most of those weren’t from the Team that was from ‘cross-line’ groups and 15,000 attended the Leadership in 2008 according to the Forbes Article?

    So, 15,ooo (2008 according to forbes) if the capacity is 12,000 MAX (2011) and we KNOW it isn’t filled to capacity. Any 4th grader or someone who knows how to use a calculator can figure this out: that’s 3000 LESS people from 3 YEARS ago! Now that is some backwards growth!
    They haven’t even caught up to the numbers from 3 Years Ago?

    But there will be those who ‘believe’ what ever comes out of the mouths of these decievers~ must suck to live in denial!

    Were enjoying our weekend with true and honest friends and family doing some charity work!

  19. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 2, 2011 9:21 am

    How many other Major locations are there for this round? Numbers?

  20. May 2, 2011 9:40 am

    The next Major Functions are from July 22-24, in Fresno, California and from July 29-31 in Columbus, Ohio. They already have started to sell tickets for both events.

  21. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 2, 2011 10:37 am

    I always go back to the market saturation issue, the 2 year old IDS MV puts out and has not updated recently because the numbers suck and since I’m sure they are mostly in different downlines I would guess the competive factor work’s out to there are not enough people in the world to support half of them at that event ever making a real sustained income, unless of course they are a heavy hitter on stage selling tools.

  22. Huperdeim permalink
    May 10, 2011 11:24 am

    @Burned out: could it be that they only release an IDS every other year? ie next one would be 2011? I honestly don’t know. What makes me curious is I was just at a TEAM meeting locally and they handed me the 2009 one. Up front I saw the 2007 one (with type almost too small to read, but it looked like the numbers were better that 2009. Come to think of it, the sheet they gave me was printed very poor quality and a little hard to read. Wonder why). So I have been curious to see the 2010 IDS, but thought maybe they won’t release one till 2011.

  23. Dorothy permalink
    May 10, 2011 9:30 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  24. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 11, 2011 4:15 am

    Glad you asked, in the 2007 / 2008 range they were putting out the IDS every 6 months and they were telling us to show prospects the comparision of how the numbers of “Field Leaders” were growing. Draw your own conclusion as to why the last one is 2 years old.

  25. switch permalink
    May 11, 2011 6:52 am

    You were probably given a copy off of some shitty copy machine straight from the local 7-eleven gas station.

    No wonder you couldn’t read it.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2011 7:51 am

    Burned Out w/MV~
    The worst part is, how Dallin touted their IDS as no other Co. is so transparent and they are doing this for the love of their ‘distributors.’
    They Are a Company that cares and values their distributors because they know that is Who makes the CO.~ paraphrased
    I can’t imagine having to explain the very ‘out-dated’ one (not to mention the 99% failure rate) if we were building, that is ridiculous and raises ‘red flags’ right from the get-go.
    The ‘business’ is for the most part built on TRUST (the rest they have to manipulate & deceptive practices,( but you don’t find that out until the damage is done), how does this build trust? Also, how do people continue to believe or trust, when their talk does match their walk?
    Very Old & Barely legible, IDS? Not too professional. How does one take that seriously?
    The TEAM , treats it as a technicality and uses it to create distractions by ‘pick the income on here where you want to be or see yourself’, and then USES that to walk you right into their spiel of buying the ‘tools’ & tickets that will get you to that income, ‘it’s not mandatory but neither is your success,’ or offer you $ to get on their system as someone else stated, along w/ their mentorship BS that is going to change every area of your life. From experience; it will definitely mess up every area of your life if not ruin in many cases.

    How did you find Amthrax site? From many people on here & years with the Team Leaders, I will say I really hope you investigate and do more research before you make a ‘life’ decision with these people. It could save you a lot more than money.

    Swtich~You kill me, lol

  27. outsider permalink
    May 11, 2011 8:33 am

    Oh, man, I just read this and had a funny thought: Whoever still has boxes of cd’s and junk buried in their attics/basements/trunks/wherever – you all ought to look into donating them to Terracycle or another of those companies that makes useful objects out of junk. For once their crap (paid for with YOUR $ and sweat!) might actually do somebody some good! Oh, wait – even better yet, maybe someone who’s financially struggling thanks to all this will figure out a way to make handbags or windshield visors saying, “Ask me why I despise [insert name of offending mlm or tool co. here]” actually made right out of their own crap. What a conversation piece. And so poetic. 🙂 Talk about your home business opportunity! Can’t you just see it?!

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2011 8:55 am

    Great ideas outsider! The Terracycle was the Co. a friend told me about, I did try and get ahold of them w/no answer. I couldn’t take the junk being around anymore and took them to the dump. But what fantanstic ideas! 🙂

  29. Huperdeim permalink
    May 11, 2011 9:40 am

    Actually I’m not sure exactly how I stumbled across this site (I think I came here through juicescam or teamscam websites), but just last Tuesday I went with a friend to an open meeting, knowing very little about any of this. I came away from it highly disturbed and unable to voice my concerns because of the emotions I felt. I am a conservative Christian, and the use of religion to promote such greed and materialism seemed very wrong. And even aside from that, when they actually came out and said that “we aren’t selling a product, we’re selling hope,” and “don’t even try to sell the juice, you won’t make money that way, and you’ll probably get a talking to,” I nearly fell off my chair! I left in a daze and actually had nightmares and poor sleep that night. Since then I have spent every spare moment researching it. My friend is not deeply involved yet, but I was unable to ask calm questions that night, I could only say things like “cult,” “brainwashing,” “fake,” et cetera. ie, not very effective arguments.
    Yesterday I finally felt more logical about it and asked some questions, and thankfully I think he is having some growing doubts. The fact that he was told that you NEVER tell someone how much you make (for two reasons: either you will discourage people because you’ve been in it for years and barely make anything ‘yet’, or you could get the company sued because you make so much and thereby raise peoples’ expectations so high).
    He did say that TEAM has been really growing lately, as opposed to a couple years ago when it was “flatlined.”
    I read “Merchants of Deception” as well, which was almost a psycho-thriller! Left me even more scared.
    Anyway, that’s the gist of my very short experience (I was propositioned by a couple of others a few years ago, but wasn’t really doing my research then, I just thought it sounded dumb and forgot all about it till now). Of course there is much more that I could say but I am on lunch and typing this on my phone! Thank you so much for this website.

  30. Huperdeim permalink
    May 11, 2011 9:46 am

    sorry my post isn’t very well connected and organized. Guess i should have waited till I got home!

  31. May 11, 2011 4:28 pm

    Thanks for contributing your comment. I look forward to hearing more from you. It’s interesting that they flat out said, “don’t even try to sell the juice.” Is this what they are really saying in the meetings? Do you see the reactions from other people in the meeting? For years, they’ve been saying it’s the best thing since water. If it’s so good for you, why not try to sell it? WE all the why, but I want to know why TEAM thinks it’s not such a good idea anymore.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2011 5:34 pm

    Thanks! I am glad you found this site. We are here to help in any way we can. I think you will find some very revealing information, and how their thought processes work, and why everything is so scripted!
    Your post was very clear and we understand, the ‘nightmares’ sorry to say we lived it.
    Merchants of Deception is a ‘horror’ true story and was one of the 1st books I read when we finally seen through the deception & corruption.
    That is where it all started from the Yager system in Amway.

    These guys-Team/PC stole everything right down to the how to take someone out like us & others with their ‘conquer and divide’ more like mafia tactics and called it their own system!

    “Never tell people how much you make”~lol ~things never change!
    Because the only ones making any money and LOTS OF IT, are the PC! The other 99% never do!

    Glad your critical thinking is in over-drive that is the most important thing!
    Keep reading and questioning, you are figuring it out!

  33. Huperdeim permalink
    May 12, 2011 4:52 am

    The reactions from the crowd (consisting of maybe 100 or so people I’d guess) were, for lack of a better word, worshipful. That was one of the most troubling aspects of the whole thing. At one point (after a break, during which I was talked to by several people, including plumbers [my profession], but told “no pressure”), everyone stood and cheered for the speaker returning to the front. I just sat there somewhat confused. There was one naive looking young couple I watched for a bit, with their “sponsor” apparently sitting behind them. Occasionally he would give them a pat on the back and whisper something to them in response to some of the things the speaker said (encouraging and cheering them on). Winks, nudges, “amen”s, very religious.

    The speaker was very dynamic and humorous, and in normal circumstances I would have found him entertaining, but all his charisma did for me then was make me feel ill. Maybe due to the fact that I went in to the meeting looking for facts and figures, and got absolutely nothing but appeals to emotions, pride, and greed. Of course, it was all “Christian” – supporting charities, families and churches. By the end, all charitable thoughts were forgotten and he worked up the crowd by asking “what would you like to buy?” by that point it was mostly about, e.g., buying several dozen muscle cars.

    Yes, he said that you only make money “on system.” Do not promote the juice, since it’s really hopes and dreams we are selling (my thought: HUH?!). And be sure you read the books and listen to the CDs daily, over and over, even “five and six times” or more, however much you “need.”

    Now I wish I could remember more of it, because there were so many more unsettling things. If I ever go to another meeting, I will be taking notes. There was one man there who I was told was almost ready to leave his job. I should have asked for his tax returns then and there. But that was before I knew the questions I should be asking. My friend told me they probably wouldn’t disclose that information anyway.

  34. humiliated permalink
    May 12, 2011 7:08 am

    Your posts are great Huperdeim. It makes my skin crawl reading them, however!

    I do see that both MV and TEAM use very dynamic speakers (sigh…if only these people would use their powers for good and not evil) and they always introduce the concept of giving to others. They have taken the concept of charity (a comment MLM/scam tactic) and really wrapped guilt and greed around it, which sickens me. The more you earn, the more you can give…the less you earn, the less you can give (implicit in that statement is, “aren’t you ashamed of should be earning more so you can be more “Christian” like and give to those less fortunate”). It is one thing for a bona fide charity to appeal to your emotions and perhaps create some guilt (I always feel guilty when I watch those commercials…) but TEAM and MV have morphed this altruistic behavior into profits for themselves. In addition, I saw people that I was involved with giving LESS to charities then they were prior to their involvement with MV.

    I know with MV people are encouraged to give to the bogus MORE project and distributors paid a whole heckuva lot of money to help build a beautiful house in Brazil for the Black Diamonds to go and stay at. There is an in depth analysis of this “charity” on the Juice Scam site.

    I have a question for those that were high up in TEAM. Did you find yourselves giving more money to charity with your increased income? Did you hear of/see others doing this? Were there any charities that you were encouraged to give to?

    I had the same experience as you, Huperdeim, regarding hearing all about “how much one could do for others” in one breath and the next, how you could have a bus, car, plane etc. and the latter concept created far more excitement for those in the room. I don’t measure my life in “what” I have, but in “who” I have, so I was really queasy after sitting through this. These were high level MV people and I had to leave the room because I actually thought I was going to be physically ill. That was the beginning of the end for me.

    Someone REALLY needs to secretly tape one of these meetings and let the world know what this bogus organization is all about. Nudge nudge wink wink!

  35. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 12, 2011 9:23 am

    Looks like R3G and MV are in the same boat with declining numbers, I did not see anything in the “Major Event” schedule like it was a few years ago, one thing I did notice was the speakers advertized for the SLC convention did not see anybody from TEAM on the speaker schedule. Hmmmmm

  36. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 12, 2011 12:14 pm

    Hate to hijack a thread, but who is/was Dexter Yeager?? I have come across his names quite a few times on blogs, but don’t know who he is. From what I gather, I think he was OW’s upline mentor in Amway – maybe? What’s his “claim to fame”?

  37. May 12, 2011 12:56 pm

    If there’s ever someone that could be called the founder of the tool systems, that would be Dexter. Do a search for him on Google, and you will find much about Dex and Birdie (his wife).

  38. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2011 2:45 pm


  39. bogart permalink
    May 12, 2011 6:43 pm

    I have to give credit where credit is due(kind of). Orrin see’s that MV is going nowhere.By telling people that you can’t get people in the business with the juice. Which is a half truth because neither the juice or Team will make you job optional. This lie is enough to keep the 5-6 PC making money. And the new person thinks its a new idea….. its not…I remember trying to sell leadership when there was no product. And the people with 2-12 years of brainwashing there is no hope unless they stumble across this website.
    I have 1 more rant and that is about the people that I meet in team. Facebook to help there pathetic lives. Sad really sad.

  40. bogart permalink
    May 12, 2011 6:50 pm

    Some of the last sentence must of gotten deleted. It should have read”I have 1 more rant and that is about the people that I meet in Team. That used to quote the Bible to give there life direction. They only give reference to CD #’s on facebook.Sad really sad.

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2011 11:21 pm

    Humiliated here is what I know about the ‘Charities’.
    I first must say we believe in charity whole heartedly and love to give what we can, been on mission trips (outside of Team/MV, but even had an unpleasant experience w/church people go figure, reminded me of team, outside of that it was awesome and mission was accomplished) weather it is money, time, or other gifts, even just helping friends out, we do give. We also believe you don’t make people feel obligated (that is not from the heart or true giving); it should come from the heart. With that said, yes we gave to the ‘MORE’ project, while still in the fog, in the beginning, but no longer.

    Yes there is an emphasis on what ‘charities to give to.
    Obviously, the More Project, MV promotes as a matter a fact, coming up in June, you can pay $150 for a seat at their International ‘Imagine” Convention-“More Project Award? Apparently this is separate and not mandatory w/convention and seperate from the regular price of the convention.
    Not sure what that really is about but seems pretty steep for the average person, especially since they will be paying to attend the ‘convention’ and what do they do with the 150 bucks, is that your ‘charity gift and or do they expect others to give on top of that? Don’t know and wouldn’t attend it anyway.

    They have had others through-out the years, periodically, they brought certain speakers ‘their chosen ones’ (political or appearing good, front?) for whatever reason, on stage and ‘promote heavily’ & collect from the attendee’s. From the Amway stage to the Team stage at their functions.
    I cannot remember them all but I know the ‘red-cross’/ Amway which seemed like the Jerry Lewis telethon, was a big one.
    I also remember one it had something to do with disabled children(Amway days also) and the Team had speakers from the ‘Whaley House.’
    (I think that’s what it is called) anyway that is the last one I remember. The reason that one was picked was because Tim & Amy Marks, was partial to it, ‘fulfilling one of their dreams.’

    We never agreed with the way they approached any ‘charity’ from stage,
    it seemed as a front, was sprung on you without notice, it was for their reasons, people already were spending a boat load on ‘tools’ and the conventions exspenses, and it would make people feel obligated, which obviously this would be the intent so we just never gave to it. I really don’t know any of the ‘workings’ that went with them either.

    They had ‘collections’ on ‘Sundays’ @ the Majors. Which normally would not be unusual when a ‘real’ Pastor speaks but if they collect now that would be very ‘sketchy’ because they have the PC ‘Preaching’ and none of them are qualified. That to me would be a total farce!
    Where does this money go, and is it legal?
    I know nothing about this so I wouldn’t have a clue. But common sense would tell you it would be very suspicious, especially knowing how greedy they are! One of the commenter’s told of a situation that was totally unethical and they can’t be trusted anyway.

    I also know the ‘Team’ has their own ‘charity’ run by the PC & a few others; ‘All-Grace,’ and there is a link from a discussion on here, somewhere.

    Funny, I never heard the Team promote the More Project (left up to MV) only in the plan and to shine light on them and what a ‘great & giving Co.” they were attached to. And interesting enough, I really don’t remember them promoting the ‘All-grace’ either (that maybe the Sunday giving?)
    Someone else may know more about it.

    Knowing what I know now though, it is very sketchy and they should not for any reason bring it into the business, that is a Scam #1 and that the so called leaders can’t be trusted, and don’t even follow what they ‘preach!’
    Hope that sheds some light.

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2011 11:45 pm

    You describe the events very clear and completely understandable, to well in fact.
    Reading them makes you feel like you are there- yuk; the memories!

    That is their strategic plan or they would call it their ‘proven system’ and did exactly what they intended it to do~Play on your emotions!

    That is why; not alot of facts, and the number one reason~capture you emotionally, they pressure to get you there~ and is what hooks people; unforunately. It’s all about how different they are from the ‘outside’ world and how pure, perfect, & ‘Godly’ they appear!

    They are the ‘wolves in sheeps clothing’ don’t let it fool you.

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 12:09 am

    Funny how Orrin knew the same thing with Amway that he never told anyone was so bad and never left for 15 years, until HE was about to lose lots of personal $$$ with his ‘one and only’ thing he cares about; his Tool Scam Business, even tried suing them because they were a ‘pyramid’ non-viable business, all the while preaching with a whole lot of passion that it was the best business bar-none!
    So, now with MV and his ‘bench marking study’, he knows there is a 99% failure rate (remember he studies the numbers!) in the MLM’s he attaches his tool scam to, even though he never ‘admits’ right up til the time he leaves and just keeps telling everyone how great they are and even has his objections down pat, on how he figures ‘anyone can make it’!
    If he knows MV is not viable, and everyone is failing at it, then why does he stay attached? There are a few reasons, but the one that trumps all is HIS MONEY!!!

  44. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 13, 2011 3:56 am

    Dexter and Brig locked horns back in the 90’s over tools, there was a lawsuit where Brig basically sued Amway and a dozen or so of his upline and downline when they cut into his tool turf, he won and Amway eventually booted him for being a pain in the ass is the abridged version.

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 4:30 pm

    webelieved~He was Orrin’s hero!
    Anyone who experienced Dexter, oh boy no one needs an explanation!
    Read Merchants of Deception, listen to the his ‘leadership recordings.’
    Nothing else needs said.


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