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Tweet of the Day: Best TEAM Wide Growth Since 2006

April 28, 2011

Orrin Woodward’s latest tweet talks about the explosive growth he’s seeing in TEAM:

Heading into Milwaukee with the best TEAM wide growth since 2006! Life is good.

This is not the impression you would get from reading the comments on this blog.

Best growth since 2006? Wasn’t that when Orrin and TEAM were aligned with Amway, a business he would later call an illegal pyramid scheme? I know that Orrin is such a student of history; tell us more about TEAM’s past in 2006!

Milwaukee is the site of TEAM’s upcoming Leadership Conference this weekend. Forbes ranked it this year as the #7 city in America with the best job market. In 2010, the magazine also ranked Milwaukee as the fourth worst city to live in during the winter.

What does Forbes think of the Top 7 Leadership Guru? Check out this article that the magazine ran on Orrin Woodward in 2008, titled Climb to the Top:

Pyramid selling schemes are a dime a dozen. Orrin Woodward’s organization is one step ahead of them all.

“Struggle is a part of every great victory,” intoned Woodward. “Leaders,” he went on, “are dealers in hope.”

Woodward, by contrast, doesn’t have to sell a drop of the concoction to make a killing. Team, rather, sells things that help people sell things like MonaVie. Team sells “tools”–$258 sets of motivational compact discs, $69 Team shirts and books like Woodward’s Launching a Leadership Revolution, all of which filled the Nationwide Arena’s hockey rink. Outside, a black Mercedes-Benz gleamed next to a sign saying “Work hard, go black diamond, get one of these!”

Yes, Orrin. I bet life is good when you are at the top of the pyramid. How come Orrin doesn’t mention that he was featured in Forbes? Maybe because it’s not a very positive portrayal of him? An accurate one, many would say, but not necessarily a positive one.

Coming back to Orrin’s tweet. Here’s an interesting data point from the Forbes article:

Team hauled in $42 million last year and boasts 60,000 mostly middle-class members. Last winter 15,000 of them braved an ice storm to assemble in St. Louis for speeches on “Overcoming Obstacles.” About 90% of Team’s sales tool revenues come from people who also sell MonaVie juice.

Since the article was written in 2008, that means TEAM had 60,000 members in 2007, with 15,000 of them going to one of TEAM’s Major Conferences. I am very curious to see how many people attend Leadership in Milwaukee this weekend.

How is Orrin categorizing TEAM growth? If he means total numbers, will there be more than 15,000 people at Leadership? Does that mean TEAM has pushed passed 60,000 members? Or, is he talking about new growth in terms of percentages?

Let’s run the numbers with some hypothetical figures. Suppose TEAM went from 40,000 to 60,000 members in 2006. That would be growth of 50%. Now, it’s safe to say that TEAM numbers have contracted since those lofty highs of 2008. Say in 2010, they were piddling along with just 10,000 members. If TEAM has achieved 50% growth this year, that would mean they’ve only added 5,000 new members.

  • 2006 = 20,000 new members. 50% growth rate
  • 2011 = 5,000 new members. 50% growth rate

Again, hypothetical numbers here, but we see here the same growth rate, but with smaller total numbers. To Orrin, I would ask for some clarification on the use of the term growth rate. Will I get a response, or just silence from the Top 7 Leadership Guru? Would no response define him as a coward? Again, I submit to the reader one of his treasured tweets:

Two ways to NOT handle conflict resolution: Silence – the cowards way; Violence – the emotionally unintelligent way.

47 Comments leave one →
  1. Major Dave Stoner permalink
    April 28, 2011 6:56 pm

    I find it quite amusing that TEAM has a Major on the most unChristian weekends of the year. April 30 Walpurgis Night(pagan & satanic Holy night) and May 1 (pagan holiday). Maybe Orrin has the devil on his side or on April 30 he will do what Hitler did on this day. I can dream can’t I? Not trying to be a jerk or anything. I bet they will have less than 5,000 people in Milwaukee anyways.

  2. Dorothy permalink
    April 28, 2011 9:49 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  3. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    April 29, 2011 5:30 am

    Its easy to make all kinds of claims when there is no feasable way to verify the statements through a non-partisan source. Of course all Teamers just assume it to be truth when the PC puts out the info.
    Hey Teamers guess what?
    Like We Believed said, Every event is bigger than the last according to the PC. But if you would just do the math, you’d realize that the numbers you physically see don’t match up with what you hear. Especially after you run the numbers based on how long the Team has supposedly “growing explosively”. Think people, think.

  4. April 29, 2011 9:30 am

    If you could somehow invite them to contribute to this web site, their insight will be most valuable.

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 29, 2011 11:46 am

    Great comments! It is promising to hear more people are waking up, and seeing through the deception! I agree it would be great for them to come here and comment, they for sure aren’t alone, would feel better & help in the ’cause’!

    I can’t even say anymore that they ‘exagerate’ they flat out lie about the numbers!
    It takes one indicator~check your OWN business center (system & volume) and if you are a ‘builder’, busting your arse and your team isn’t growing or growing faster than those who ARE quitting (not attending & going off system), your volume and so called pin levels AREN’T repeating which we already KNOW they aren’t, then it is a very good indicator NO ONE else is growing either!

    Another truth: How many more people do you have going to the current leadership major vs the last (4 months) that are repeat and growing or they just being replaced?
    What is the your numbers @ the major in 2006 vs now? Hello?
    Numbers don’t lie! ~LOL

    Is the major being held at a large~ St. Louis Arena or other places with the same capacity like they used to be or is it at the U.S.Cellular Building in Milwaukee in 2 smaller rooms combined, where the ‘local’ seminars were held?
    BIG DIFFERENCE! Do they really think people are that dumb, yep?
    They are confident they can distract you enough to not SEE the truth.

    Why don’t they just show and post them on their ‘award winning blogs’ the exact numbers from their office of total tickets sold?
    Wouldn’t that be transparent, then people wouldn’t repeat their lies,solve it and speak truth!
    It doesn’t take a genius to figure it out & EVERYONE already knows they ‘hype’ up everything!
    2006-2007 was a couple of the fastest growing years in our business and overall I’m sure so no guessing to why Orrin picked that year!
    Then the fool destroyed everyone’s momentum in the groups not to mention the income, when Orrin DECIDED (not your business) for everyone’s business to Leave Q/ Amway and told when to everyone to resign, because he was afraid HE was going to lose everything!
    It wasn’t because he cared about ‘your business’ or was going to the “promised Wal-Mart of the internet, no, he destroyed others.
    The indicators have been dropping ever since from what I see.

    Yep webelieve~ Never low the bar..LOL Recognition is more like if you THOUGHT someone or Maybe (they said they would come) was going to buy a ticket but backed out~You get to ‘come on down’ and walk and wave your team can see you are movin-on~ you tried! LOL
    They are running out of leaders, many have quit and people are NOT growing! They aren’t fooling anyone, only lying to themselves.

    Amthrax~Coward~I think you nailed it! Great article!
    Would be great to see Forbes or Date line do a follow up or FTC or IRS!
    I am sure there are people who would rather kick Orrin’s butt but haven’t heard of any violence?
    You can’t lie, steal and cheat from people and expect for people to love and promote you (worship) or make friends~ Maybe he should read~
    “How to Win Friends” again and tweet that, Geez spread some postive, will ya?

  6. April 29, 2011 3:12 pm

    Love the article Amthrax. Would love to see Orrin’s response. It is so easy for him to pull a tweet out of his you know what, but a different thing entirely for him to buck up and walk the talk. This guy is rambling baboon.

    Did he have conflict resolution with Amway when he sued them? Did he have conflict resolution with the countless numbers of former distributors on this blog that had money and groups stolen from them by Orrin himself? I highly doubt it. Otherwise, we would not be seeing a flood of traffic from people on this blog that have been burned by this man and financially ruined.

    This guy is sinking on the titanic and instead of looking for a life boat, he is yelling “Quick, get your buckets and follow me!!! I will lead you to freedom!!!”

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 29, 2011 5:11 pm

    Great to see you comment-back! Totally agree~the hypocrisy is astounding!

  8. TOD permalink
    April 29, 2011 6:39 pm

    I never get tired of Titanic references in regards to Team. The only difference is the captain of Titanic went down with the ship and did not try to take everyone down with him. The captain of Titanic had everyone get to the life boats while #7 is keeping everyone busy rearranging deck furniture and playing classical music all the while pretending that everything is GREAT!

    Now cue up that annoying Titanic theme song by Celene Dion…

  9. bogart permalink
    April 30, 2011 7:45 am

    I am pretty confident the reason it is being held in Milwaukee is because this is the area with the largest residual of “Teambots”. I am so glad we left 2 years ago. Sorry to see a couple of friends are still in this scam. I must have saved well over 7500 dollars in the last 2 years by not attending and buying the juice and cd’s and tickets.
    I wonder if the numbers they report at the major functions are tickets sold . Or the number of people in attendance over 3 days?

  10. April 30, 2011 10:33 am

    Over on Twitter, I found a photo taken by a TEAM member from Friday-night at US Cellular Arena. Here’s another photo that shows most of the arena.

    How many people you think there are?

  11. Karma permalink
    April 30, 2011 12:00 pm

    Okay not sure why all the Venom? Did Orrin Woodward or the team personally attack any of you or take money out of your pocket?
    I am not a team or MLM member but I do know a lot of these people. I was a member and knew a lot of these people personally before I was a member. I decided I was just not willing to put in the time it takes to grow a business I was not sold out to. I am a quitter! All that said No one tried to assonate me or stopped talking to me because I quite. No one ever forced me to get in. As a matter of fact no one recruited me I ask them because I thought it was something I could do. I just did not have the passion to stick with it. No one ever made me buy CD’s Tape’s etc. How can you ever go wrong with self improvement and learning anyway? If you have such distain for these people then why not walk away and live your life instead of spend so much time on them?? What is the point? Are you blaming them for your short comings? I failed at this business because I was not into it. NO one else is to blame. I am not upset with anyone about it. If I want to be a success in anything in life it is up to me and not team or anyone else. No one is going to hand us anything. We have brains we live in a free county we make the choice. Why not find something worth will to focus so much energy on. Weather you call it Karma, reap and sow, what comes around goes around, does not matter you get back from people what you give out! Life is challenging enough why reap all the venom you are putting out.

  12. April 30, 2011 12:05 pm

    If you read the accounts of the ex-TEAM members on this blog, you will see that Orrin Woodward and TEAM have taken a lot of money out of their pockets. They are mad and commenting about it with their stories. People join TEAM/MonaVie in order to make money, NOT LOSE MONEY (which is what happens to the majority who join).

    Self-improvement is great, but you don’t have to spend $500+/month on books, CDs and seminars for what you can get for free from the library or the Internet.

  13. Karma permalink
    April 30, 2011 1:27 pm

    @ Amthrax, I agree. People do join to make money not spend it. That is the reason I joined to make money. BUT……I wasn’t because I was not willing to do what it takes to get to the top of the Team /Monavie business. There is no business on earth that will bring instant money without an investment and hard work!! (Well Maybe porn?) I get that but it is a total choice. No one made us spend money . Your right there is a endless supply of self improvement and self help free on the internet and in the library. If we continue to educate ourselves with this endless free information we will also learn it is ultimately our responsibility. I have been in a variety of situations (not business) with these people. I have never seen them put on an air. What they say from the stage they totally live. They are the same all the time. Everyone has a right to vent and speak freely. I am not taking that away. I am just saying who is really to blame. No one can make us do something we don’t want to do? If we feel venerable and like a victim we will always be a victim. Why not find our passion and follow that. Do good things in the world despite the bad experiences. We live and we learn. Everyone’s interpretation of a saturation is their personal interoperation. That does not mean the people are bad or is evil.

  14. bogart permalink
    April 30, 2011 3:14 pm

    Anthrax I can’t be sure but it looks like about 5000 to 7000 people. Whatever the number it is alot less than 3-4 years ago in Michigan.

  15. bogart permalink
    April 30, 2011 3:40 pm

    Karma I agree no one takes you by force into Team. I think one of the reasons people express dislike of Team is what they portrait this group to be. I will give you a couple of examples. Team has there MAJOR CONVENTION in Milwaukee. From the pictures I saw from Friday night the attendance was maybe 5000 to 7000. How will Orrin spin this? He will probably say that over the weekend 21,000 people got the nugget they will need to move there business forward.It is a 3 day event so if 7000 ticket holder attend all 3 days they will count that as 21,000 people.
    Another disception is a persons rank. I have people in my downline that a bronze or silver and most of them earn star 500 pay 2 weeks out of the month and nothing the rest of the month. But they will walk across the stage as Bronze or Silver and there downline thinks Wow they must be making alot of money. And it simple is not true.

  16. aurora permalink
    May 1, 2011 5:10 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  17. May 1, 2011 7:24 am

    Karma – It’s pretty clear you haven’t done a lot of reading on this blog. I get what you are saying about your own “Failure” in the Team. Hey …”if it’s to be, it’s up to me” ….right? Fine. What about the countless people who DID “what it takes” to make it? The bottom line is that even if you “make it” in the Team….you can still lose, and have your “team” taken from you….leaving you with nothing after years of building and doing what these “great leaders” told you to do! That’s a big reason why people are upset. They portray a business where you make the calls….but you’re actually in control of nothing! It’s not YOUR business….it’s Orrin’s. The reason that nobody cared when you “Quit” the team….. is because you were never really in! You weren’t building….you weren’t “edified” from stage, they didn’t have to explain to a huge downline why you weren’t there anymore!

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 1, 2011 9:55 am

    You nailed it!

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 1, 2011 11:08 am

    Karma~Care to elaborate?:
    What was your ‘investment of time & money’ you put in before you became a ‘quitter?’

    You say: “As a matter of fact no one recruited me I ask them because I thought it was something I could do.” 99.9999% of EVERYONE else are recruited, so I believe you when you say you never built the business.

    You say; “I was a member and knew a lot of these people personally before I was a member.”and “I have been in a variety of situations (not business) with these people.”
    Care to share where you know A LOT of these people from that you have so much experience with their ‘character’?
    Care to tell us your ‘variety of situations (not business) with THESE people?

    You also say: “There is no business on earth that will bring instant money without an investment and hard work!!”

    Just to clear your ignorance with that statement, there isn’t a leader on here that has ever said or believed there is ‘instant money without an investment and hard work!!” If you read the posts, it should be clear! Unless of course you win the lottery!

    You could clear up your confusion and ignorance up by reading all the posts on here before you come with your judgement.

    Care to explain this?
    “Everyone’s interpretation of a saturation is their personal interoperation.”

    One last thing, MY PASSION is exposing the Truth, Charity, Self-improvement, helping others, my faith, my health, and spending time with True Friends & Family.
    I give to it with PASSION!
    Ever read stories of people with Passion who to stand for what’s right, and do the right thing and expose the sheer ‘evil’ in the world? Pretty inspiring!
    If not, you could watch Erin Brockovich,(Her passion didn’t end with the movie), read stories about Nazi concentration camps and their surviours-‘victims’ read the history about slavery-‘victims’!
    Or maybe you could volunteer helping rape and batter women and children and ask them what it’s like to be a ‘victim’ and how they feel ‘venomous’ towards their ‘evil’ perpetrators?’ Do you think they may have experience some of the ‘ bad & evil’ in the world?
    Possibly read the tragic ending of the stories about Bernie Madoff, his OWN son’s turned him in because they had the guts to tell the truth and prevent thousands of other ‘victims’!
    Do you suppose his ‘victims’ willing made the ‘choice’ to be ripped-off and their life savings voluntarily given up?
    His own wife and children experienced what the ‘evil’ of greed can do to thousands of people? Suppose Bernie created a few ‘victims?’
    Then you could educate yourself as Aurora pointed out about the tragic stories on Jim Jones, the Moonies and Scientology that people had the guts to expose. Wonder if the survivors (victims) have experienced and shared about the ‘bad and evil’ and devastation their families experienced?

    And what did you say your PASSION in life is? Hope you find it.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 1, 2011 3:24 pm

    One last thing since you seem to be understanding the ‘Karma’ thing so well.

    What would you suppose the “Karma” will be for Bernie Madoff or others like Orrin and the other PC who have have lied, cheated, stolen from their ‘friends’ business’, indoctrinated, use deceptive recruiting techniques, use the bible for confirmation of guilt, counseled (poorly) people financially, play on others emotions to spend (whatever it takes for their dream) to make your buisness grow, and slandered & lie about others… (‘their willing by choice victims’), for the love of ‘greed?’

    Or what about the ‘karma’ from the ‘blaming victim’s’ of their rip-off scheme who God forbid shared the truth ( venom-bad karma) of the effects this had on them and their families, some even committed suicide in the case of Bernie Madoff. Or how about his ‘blaming venomous wife’s karma’ that feels he was responsible for his son’s death that committed suicide on the 2nd anniversary to the day, of his incarceration because of the destruction his own father caused to his emotional and mental health?

    What about the victims ‘karma’ that released their ‘venom’, in the process of healing from the ‘victims’ of incest, rape, and beatings they endured? What is your view of these ‘victims-karma’ and are they quitters (like you) & blamers too?

    Or perhaps someone like the ‘victims’ and their ‘karma’ that shared some (truth) ‘venom’ from the ‘evil’,’ of the sick & twisted ‘cult leaders’ that were mentioned?

    Should be interesting what your wisdom is of these ‘victims’ and sick ‘perpetrators’ and the ‘Karma’ they will be receiving?

    Or perhaps your advise will remain for all those willing, by choice victims, of these incomprehensible evil deeds, should just buck up and forget about it, pretend there is no ‘evil or bad’ in anyone that choses to con, rape, beat, lie, steal, cheat, rob, use people for their financial gain, etc.. and just “learn ultimately it is our responsiblilty?” Just keep quite so we don’t risk the ‘bad karma’ for telling the truth and being true to ourselves about the anger and injustice?

    We’ll wait and see if you can enlighten others with your wisdom on what you think is their expected ‘karma’?

  21. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 2, 2011 8:51 am

    It’s nice to see some other folks starting to compare TEAM / R3G to the other off the wall cults, thought I was the lone ranger on that one 🙂 thought R3G has more of the “Praise the lord and pass the Monavie” hype than TEAM does, still the shoe fits both.

    Cutting to the chase, and many great points were made, is don’t believe anything told to you by these so called “leaders” (con artists) until it can be verified by an outside source, if everybody would put them to that simple test this whole thing would fold in a week or two. As the US has been pretty much saturated in the last 6 years this has been out, the overseas market if pretty much out of the reach of most folks, the product’s merits are very arguable and at the end of the day MV has not relesed an IDS in 2 years as the last one showed 99% of the members were not making a significant income after expenses.

  22. Teri Brill permalink
    May 2, 2011 11:23 am

    Well, I am new to this, however it does not take a rocket scientist to see this is a pyramid scheme. They seem like they are hunters out with rifles, ready for the kill! Reading all I have read on TEAM, Monavie…etc. makes me so sick. And I have someone so close who is sucked into it. Is there a way to de-program them? What do you say to someone who just came back from this MKE conference, and is so euphoric? I had to but my tunes on and go for a 3 mile run just to clear my thoughts. It is almost like a cult, the meetings that are 6 hours long, and then meetings on top of them. Then meetings when he arrived home last night. Wow, it truly seems CULT like.

  23. Teri Brill permalink
    May 2, 2011 11:31 am

    It is all perception! If a person is lacking something in their life, they will grasp at something that makes them feel good. It is pure and simple “BRAIN WASHING”. Think about it, people turn to different tings to feel better about themselves. If someone is selling you HOPE, and money….BOOM! Come on wake up! And all under this guise of Self Help/Motoviation…YIKES

  24. Karma, permalink
    May 2, 2011 1:04 pm

    Ahhh so self righteous and so justified at slandering with your words. Freedom of speech you say? Free for those who you say? Right ! Free to the ones who believe the same as you! You call me ignorant and clueless! I just ask questions. Just wanted to understand why so much hate and venom! I didn’t have the same experience. And I am an idiot for asking that? Your right! I am an idiot for even engaging in any of this garbage with you all. I wish you all much pleasure in your mission to destroy in your hate and slander your heroic action for reveling to the world you superior genius. The rest of us who make any statement contrary are idiot and ignorant. Such hero you are God Bless you all. I choose to be an idiot and stay ignorant if this is an example of of heroin a cause and people of character. I’m sure your God is delighted in your mission.

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2011 1:50 pm

    Teri~You are right on!
    It is a breath of fresh air when people can see through the illusion of the this trap! I will say you have your work cut out, it is amazing the strong hold this gets on people because on the surface it appears to be the end all!

    So, I hope you have enough influence with your boyfriend because they will gain that influence even over what you say they pound that in your mind repeatedly to combat any ‘negative’, it doesn’t matter who it is (girlfriend,wife, mother, father, Clergy) doesn’t matter, they teach you not to listen to anyone that would try and reason with them!
    It is ‘us vs them,’~Cult tatic, they get you to believe anyone that is not for you is against you. “They are jealous or trying to steal their dream.”
    99% never make it, but they will never tell you that!

    Coming out of the Cultish-brainwashing- Major Leadership weekend the emotional high people are on makes them believe they just found the answer to all of life’s problems.
    Going to that weekend is the ball and chain that locks people in.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2011 1:57 pm

    Everything I have read confirms what you say!

  27. May 2, 2011 2:57 pm

    Take a look at the thread on this post. There are some suggestions on how to approach talking to your BF:

  28. May 2, 2011 7:42 pm

    Dear Karma,

    You want to understand “why so much hate and venom”. Maybe because these victims are at the moment very angry at the people who brainwashed them and ripped them off, it seems obvious to me reading all these posts. However, I am curious why do you want to understand?

    What do you mean by “I’m sure your God is delighted in your mission.” Am I assuming correctly that this means you believe in another God! And am I right that His Name is “God Bless”.

  29. dmricha permalink
    May 2, 2011 9:07 pm

    Karma the Buddhist in me couldn’t help but respond to your name.

    Orrin owns the system. Orrin controls the system. The system is what brainwashes. The system is what really takes the most money. So wouldn’t it make sense to be angry at the person that created and controls the thing that screwed you and thousands of more people over?

    You’re an idiot and ignorant not because you agree with Orrin or disagree us but because although you say you have nothing to do with any of it you still come on a site that is clearly anti TEAM and try to degrade other people’s feelings. If you aren’t apart of it any more why comment at all. If you read any of the stories here you can clearly see why people are angry. If you think we’re wrong simply leave the site. It’s not that hard.

    And as a Buddhist I have no God so you can take all that my God your God crap and shove it. Bringing God into the conversation doesn’t make you right. It actually makes it a whole lot worse. I know a lot of good Christians who were hurt by TEAM and would resent anyone even assuming that God is a part of such a thing.

  30. dmricha permalink
    May 2, 2011 9:10 pm

    Oh and call me crazy but what about depth. I thought too much wide growth was a bad thing and made your business unstable.

  31. May 3, 2011 4:45 am

    Karma – Wow…..and we are the bitter ones are we? What did you think was going to happen when you came onto this site…clearly didn’t read anyones back story….there for not knowing anybodies reason for posting or feeling the way they do….and then challenging the readership? How’d that work out for ya? If you’d get off your soap box for a minute, and do some reading, you may learn something (I know the “Leaders” in Team want you to read at least 15 minutes a day!). THEN… if you have some questions or would like to challenge us on certain points…. feel free….. in fact…. BRING IT. You don’t seem to understand that the people commenting on this blog were not just “I got in and tried it for a while” sort of people! Most of us spent YEARS of our lives in this thing and hit some significant levels! We’re not guessing or speculating about what was , and IS, going on with Team…. we lived it and saw it first hand! Here is a Teamism for you…..Don’t ask questions if you are unprepared for the answers!

  32. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 3, 2011 8:04 am

    Hey Karma- Its simple. We all bought into the vision. Worked hard for years and built big teams. Then on the whim of the PC it all started to change. Our business? No, their business, OUR hard work. Gone involuntarily for some, dropped on purpose by others. Either way we have taken it on ourselves to expose this “business” for what it truly is to hopefully save a lot of other folks some heartache. Excuse us for not always being tactful, our feelings may still be a bit hurt.

  33. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 3, 2011 8:05 am

    Now move on idiot.

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 3, 2011 9:15 am

    What’s the problem Karma? Your manipulation ‘plan showing’ tactics didn’t work on us?
    Thanks for responding you have just displayed the exact reason there is so much ‘distain & venom!’
    You answered your very own question! Isn’t that right, Karma?

    You came on here Not because you wanted ‘freedom of speech’ (which you got) or to even ask questions, but because you and others just like you with ‘your unique experience’ read right from the script.
    The only problem is that doesn’t work here, and you just can’t figure that out and it obviously pissed you off, well welcome to our world!
    That only works on the vulnerable, naive ‘victims’ you prey on and entice, manipulate & deceive with ‘L.I.F.E.-Money, Dreams etc.,’ that YOU know has a 99% failure rate.
    So it isn’t anyone’s work ethic or haven’t been plugged in long enough, to make it to the ‘top’, (it’s corruption) that are ‘quitters, it is designed to fail, and you know it!

    Think you should tell the ‘vicitms’ you prey on that tid-bit?

    We don’t fall for that bullshi*it! Your ‘Karma’ will catch you before we will ever buckle to that, if you haven’t noticed.

    Thanks for the display and confirmation of your manipulative techniques for all to see and analyze!

    Couple tactics; Don’t you teach to ‘BLAME” yourself for ‘EVERYTHING’ (not sold out, YOU are the quitter, NO one is to blame, ultimately it’s our responsibility, YOU just didn’t have the “PASSION’, got in for money but YOU wasn’t willing to do the work to get to the TOP of TEAM/ MV) but the ‘Real Message’ you tried to send:
    Is that’s what you want others to believe about themselves, isn’t that right, Karma?
    Just like showing the plan, right, Karma?

    Right, Comrades, isn’t this the way it’s taught?!

    The other guilt tactic you tried is the God Card, again thanks just confirms and validates exactly what we have told others how twisted YOU and others USE that!
    Pretty sure what you are doing isn’t pleasing to GOD, so save it!

    Aren’t you just afraid of the ‘truth’ getting out about who the Team ‘leaders’ and who they really are (despite your flawless character experience) and then what you might have to pull your head out of your..?

    Well, You need to fix, the ROOT problem, we aren’t the one’s hurting anyone’s business, we are helping, regarless of your view. You just can’t seem to accept that!
    People figure out it’s destructive all by themselves with ‘their experiences’, just ask us!
    So, if we quit telling the truth (as you are pleading for us to do), there will be hundreds’ more to follow because until the Team stops deceiving and taking people’s money and stealing their teams, just shut down and find something that truly helps others! Until they Stop creating ‘willing victims’, just like Madoff’s? You will always have surviours who do the honorable thing to help others not become victims!

    You have earned the right to call yourself an idiot.

  35. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 3, 2011 10:36 am

    Alot of the same people you defend brainwashed me (and countless others). Should I hate them just as much as they hate OW?
    I got brainwashed by my choice – I harbor no ill will towards any former TEAM “leaders” on this blog. I do, however, enjoy the “behind the scenes” discussions/nuggets.

    Don’t hate on Karma – he’s just looking for info.

  36. humiliated permalink
    May 3, 2011 11:02 am

    Well said Dmricha. Once I translated Karma’s post into English… particularly this line “and slander your heroic action for reveling to the world you superior genius” (pardon?) I saw nothing but hatred and anger. Karma, you have to remember that YOU came on here and basically accused everyone on here of being quitters and losers because they didn’t try hard enough in the business. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about because there are MANY people on here that devoted years of their lives as well as their life savings to “succeed” with TEAM. The bottom line is that there is no succeeding with TEAM or MV because only those at the top of these pyramid schemes stand to gain.

    We are trying to help people avoid destroying their lives and this appears to be lost on people like Karma. We are of all different religious backgrounds (I am an atheist) and I am proud of the fact that we have come together on this forum with one goal, and that is to help others. Talk about putting good Karma out into the universe!!

  37. humiliated permalink
    May 3, 2011 11:16 am

    Rob, I am not hating on Karma, I just get frustrated when people comment on here and it is clear that they haven’t actually read a lot of the content on this site. Some of these posts are really painful to read because of people’s lives being profoundly altered due to TEAM and someone coming on here making assumptions because they HAVEN’T bothered to dig a little deeper is beyond disrespectful. All of the questions that Karma has asked would have been answered if she/he had actually taken the time to read the posts.

  38. May 3, 2011 12:54 pm

    Dear Rob,

    You wrote the most ridiculous sentence that I have read in this blog “I got brainwashed by choice”. This is a contradiction. Being brainwashed is by far not a choice! And also you have been brainwashed twice?? Brainwashed by your team leaders, and brainwashed back by the people I, according to you, defend? In a way you are telling me you are still not able to think for yourself! Very dangerous.

    Btw how can you draw the conclusion that I hate Karma? I just do not hate people!

  39. aurora permalink
    May 3, 2011 1:01 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  40. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 4, 2011 8:07 am


  41. May 4, 2011 9:45 am

    Game……Set…….Match. BOOM Goes the dynamite! LOL

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 4, 2011 9:53 am

    Karma ~
    You come just like everyone else that says they aren’t on the team, provoke, and then call everyone haters? Seems that’s all the ‘defenders’ mission is, does this somehow in your mind, justify what you do? “Oh they are all just haters.” When challenged and asked questions of you, then you don’t return?
    If you are so proud of ‘your unique experience’ and believe in the ‘flawless character’ of the so-called leaders, then why didn’t you come on with your real name and answer the questions?
    Did you just happen on Amthrax’s site by chance and get curious about the few people who posted before your comment? And wonder why so much hate and venom? I think not!
    And where in this thread did anyone talk about: Freedom of speech?
    Maybe read Orrin’s tweet in this thread~ Silence is the Cowards way?
    Is this what you will choose?

  43. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 4, 2011 11:32 am

    webelieved –
    absolutely all is forgiven and forgotten. my only point was to say that we’ve all been in the shoes where we truely believed we could achieve the things the leaders talked about on stage. When we were confronted with contradictory evidence, we toed the company line and kept believing.

    me –
    we all chose to believe in what OW and his leaders told us. We wanted so badly to be able to leave our jobs and spend all day with our families, travelling the world, living the good life, etc. We knew, or should have known, from day 1 (certainly by year 1) that only 1% made any real money at this gig – OW himself even said this from stage. Yet, time and time again, people STP’d till the cows came home, believeing that they could be that 1%. So yeah, it was a choice – call it brainwashing if you want.

  44. Huperdeim permalink
    May 19, 2011 10:56 am

    Was just checking the old TEAM calendars. It would appear there are about half the number of opens and seminar locations available compared to just a year ago. Encouraging! It seems more are dropped every month.


  1. That’s How You Bring Together One Million People! « AMTHRAX
  2. Ex-TEAM: Would You Have Stayed In? « AMTHRAX
  3. You Can’t Go to a Million By Going Backwards – August 2007 to 2011 Meeting Location Analysis « AMTHRAX

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