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Ex-TEAM: Would You Have Stayed In?

May 4, 2011

There are several ex-TEAM members commenting on this blog who by their own admission were very high up on the TEAM totem poll. They all left TEAM for a variety of reasons, but a number of them mentioned that getting their profit-sharing checks taken away was a large contributing factor. By profit-sharing, I am talking about the profits from the sales of books, CDs and function tickets that are distributed to the upper echelons of TEAM distributors.

My questions to ex-TEAM members are the following:

  1. Would you have stayed in had Orrin Woodward and the other members of Policy Council not cut you out of the profits?
  2. Would you have left if you saw this happening to other couples in the business?

Basically, I’m asking you if you would have turned the other way if the profit-sharing checks continued to come in. Sure, they may have been smaller, due to the fact that TEAM numbers have been going down, despite what Orrin may be tweeting these days.

104 Comments leave one →
  1. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 4, 2011 11:58 pm

    Amthrax~ We did not leave because they took our profit-sharing!
    We left before they took it, that wasn’t until after these facts.
    We personally left because they screwed people and our team royally during the registration. We did have someone on our team that was registering people steal a couple of our personals but only realized it until after they were put in, we corrected one but didn’t even bother with the other ones because when we realized it, it didn’t matter!
    At that point it was the biggest eye opener, and undeniable, downright greedy theft, & corruption!
    We refused to follow and had it out with the dictators!
    This caused the ‘wrath’ they waited for what they thought was an opportune time, then had ‘secret meetings’ to try and destroy us, to de-edify us, flat out lie about us, tried to strip our credibility in our group with their lies, slander, and manipulation!
    Very few believed them, whole legs quit and people were in shock!
    They were putting people in illegally, and telling people to do it!
    They told people to put people in before their 6 months ‘no compete’ was up, but to put it in some other family member’s name, they could change it later, but when later came the answer was no!
    There were people who registered their small groups and kept their passwords and id’s then went in to change their auto ships so they could balance their business!
    They f with these people’s money and didn’t even tell them they changed it!
    It was like watching a ‘mafia movie!’
    Our phone started ringing off the wall with distraught people to put it mildly.
    There were threats for people to give up their personals or they would be stolen, others just stole them and some others traded.
    They flat out told people to steal from one leg and put them into another so they could rank themselves! This was dictated by the PC, and we were finding out as this was happening to our group!
    They had certain leaders under the dictatorship of our PC & Orrin ultimately.
    This causes so much anger, I barely can talk about it, and it was the END.
    The rest was confusion & guilt to try and help those who stayed but we couldn’t help them, we tried but it was already too late! Irreversible damage was done!
    When we had our experience confronting the lying corrupted greedy thieves, then their true colors came out!
    There was no denying these guys were corrupt! Now their story is ‘it was so chaotic.’ no shit Sherlock they were trying to force thousands of people in a week the greedy bee as terds will pay for what they did to people…what goes around comes around..karma?
    Bullsh*t, it was intentional, deliberate, and calculated corruptive greed!
    The PC had to ‘rank’ themselves, period! And still haven’t moved on and if I would wager they are holding it either, unless there is some special deal?
    Shortly after this, they invited and then uninvited us to our profit-sharing meeting, told us they were changing it but never let us
    We were still profit-sharers~ and getting paid another one of their ‘mafia tactics!’
    Passive, residual, ongoing for the rest of your life income?
    Oh you mean you can’t walk away any time and still get paid? Liars!
    We still had hundreds of people in system when they quit paying us! Even though we EARNED it, it didn’t matter it was corrupted (blood) money to us.
    At this point the damage to everyone was done, they destructed, divided, destroyed, people and our groups! Just sorry we didn’t figure it out way sooner, like before we ever signed up!

    So to answer your first question NO! 2nd Yes~ we do know that this happened to some more BIG LEADERS but after the facts as I stated!
    Now all that we have learned, we would have NEVER EVER built it or brought 1 single person in for any amount of money!
    We fell for the lies but never again!

    The corruption and a lot of people quitting was in the ‘registration!’
    The rest was they just had to finish us off, they were found out!
    We confronted them and would NOT conform and pretend this didn’t happen! They blew it off and we left with our integrity!
    The rest that know this and stayed will someday have to answer for it!
    I do apologize for swearing but this causes so much anger!
    The rest is history!

  2. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 5, 2011 7:13 am

    Its easy to answer both questions simultaneously for us. We voluntarily dropped all of it. Why? Well several reasons come to mind. #1- For the last couple years of our involvement it was obvious there was favoritism toward certain chosen people. How can I say that? Simple… when someone in your own group has numbers that are the same or even less than your own and is receiving more edification and opportunities than you are, obviously something is off. We REFUSED to be ass kissers, plain and simple. Believe me when I say that this will hinder your advancement in the Team “leadership”.
    #2- During the transition period from Quixtar to MV we personally experienced very questionable business advice from our PC. Isn’t the Team all about character and integrity? Not if we were to go by the advice we got! Houston we have a problem.
    #3- We simply could NOT see ourselves promoting some “miracle juice”. Gimme a frickin break.
    Anyway, the answers are an emphatic NO and NO!!
    We bailed before we got shafted by the PC so Orrin, UP YOURS!

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 9:54 am

    IQ & webelieved
    It became plain & simple a DICTATORSHIP! ‘Conflict Resolution?’
    That is why we know there is NONE!
    I believe it was becoming this way, long before the shift.
    They are too proud, won’t fess up and just wanted people to conform because ‘they’ had all the answers, then became more tyrant, you were just suppose to praise & worship them for their heroism~discusting!
    There is more to this story. Talk about excuses & justification~their hypocrisy is incomprehsible!
    The power trip these guys were on was unbelievable.
    When you have someone who is given total control of Everything, who does have favorites, doesn’t play by fair business practices, they lie right to peoples faces, give & takes orders, then executes them, the end result will always be destruction!
    So they can continue to blame everyone else, but this is the Root Problem of their own demise! Duh!
    That is why when all their ‘defenders’ come on here and other sites, to beg us to believe they have a ‘flawless character’ and doing so good for every area of people’s lives~WE KNOW BETTER!

  4. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 11:47 am

    One last thing~ THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LEAVING QUIETLY, so Orrin’s statement “You are Free To Go~bullsh*t, is only another half truth!
    You cannot Not leave without paying a PRICE, of character assignation, every lie they can dream up about you, and your EARNED income!

    Wonder why so much venom? Get a f-clue!

  5. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 5, 2011 12:34 pm

    SYT, webelieved, and I quit –

    Did you know each other while on TEAM? Was it your experience that the shifting of groups from one leader to another happened in a particular team, or was this common occurence on multiple teams?

    I still keep in semi-regular touch with the “guy who got me in” and from what I can tell, although his numbers are way down by his own admission, his group/leaders are still hanging around (the Patriot organization). And I don’t recall seeing the shifting of numbers in order to meet qualifications (not to say it didn’t happen or that I doubt what you say – I never hit any levels to have witnessed it first hand). The funny thing is I get his FB from updates “the guy” that say insanity is doing the same thing expecting different results and I think to myself, “Why can you not see that what you are doing is insane??”

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 1:47 pm

    Rob~Yes, I have been told it happened in other groups.

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 4:48 pm

    I should clarify here~if you were a leader with inside/up close to the PC ‘working’ knowledge & had large teams with many leaders and you know the truth, then you will certainly pay a price when you leave!
    People who they believe have no influence with their leaders in their Teams~then they could give a crap if you leave.

  8. May 5, 2011 5:57 pm

    So, here’s my followup question. Do you think the middle-rank leaders whom are still in the business have seen this blog? Do you think they are questioning their involvement in TEAM/MonaVie if they have? Or, do they continued to be blinded by greed?

    I’m not talking about Orrin and the PC members, more the rank just below then (i.e. the ones that do all the work at the conferences).

  9. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 7:13 pm

    Chances that the middle-ranked people are reading this I think would be slim and if they are they probably wouldn’t tell anyone,(feel to guilty) but it would defintely create doubt. Unless those orders came directly from the top. But I would wager they are doing Everything they can to prevent that!

    I am sure the guilt trips/brainwashing are layed on even heavier now than before because the Team & PC are being exsposed and believe me Orrin & the PC are not just forgetting about it. Even @our level we would not have touched ‘the negative information’ with a ten foot pole, because we were convinced by what they said and knew one ounce of doubt creates damage for you & your team, not to mention you don’t have time.

    And if you aren’t ‘all in & sold out’ and making money you are even at a way higher risk, I would even say, reading the truth from your site, they wouldn’t have a chance but again it depends on how brainwashed they are into believing what they tell them. I believe that are telling people anyone that ‘talks bad about them'(truth) are haters. That is what I see every defender doing.

    I do know there are a lot of ‘leaders’ that know exactly (and participated) in what happened, from many levels, that stayed, they might be reading but they are stuck?

    So, it is really hard to know especially because Orrin is very strategic, hates critics and there has never been a site where the very leaders from the team shared what we have (at least none I know of). I know he sued Scott Larson but still only know because he was a critic? I think those who come on here to defend would only be the higher levels (the ones who could handle the negative & making A LOT of money & would still build) and a few gutzy ones, that their uplines probably don’t know about.
    That’s my 2 cents, judging by our experience, from how they opperate.

    Maybe others will have a different understanding.

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 5, 2011 7:16 pm

    The very ranks below him are ‘all in & sold out!’

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 6, 2011 8:49 am

    Oh forgot the most important to the levels right below.
    They would be the ones being bought which makes them stuck, they are getting PAID!

    I do hope all of them are reading your site and all the other sites too because if they have already started to question and are seeing the inconsistencies, a crack in believing all their BS, and have experienced them NOT do ‘what they say from stage they totally live’, then I think your site would confirm what they are already thinking.

    Funny we see it helping people come here researching and how they see right through it, recognize their loved ones euphoric bizarre behavior after joining and attending seminars and are thankful for the information.

    Then you have (very few) others, once in a while come and say we are here to spread hate and God is not pleased with ‘our mission?’ Seems there is very much a contradiction, wonder if they read those posts of others doing all they can to help their loved ones get out? Seems pretty heartless to me, if you read the post from those who desperately want to help get back their loved ones! Very interesting, I have not seen them once call us ‘Haters’ and ‘try’ and use God as a guilt trip?
    Those are the people we are here for!

  12. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 6, 2011 9:36 am

    Wow and to think I thought Brig and his “Born Again R3G-bots” were a bunch of crooks when I bailed out, they were Disney characters sitting around in a circle singing Puff the Magic Dragon in comparison to these guys.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 6, 2011 10:16 am

    Burned Out With MV~Lmao! Even though it really isn’t funny, your analogy is!

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 6, 2011 12:10 pm

    Rob I am sure if all of us were to meet up, we would know each other. All the leaders in the Team knew of each other, didn’t matter if they were ‘cross-line’ or not. We experienced and were around all the leaders from ‘speaking’, ‘fun-in-the-sun’ trips, Power-Player & turbo meetings at the majors etc.

    These things that happened were common, with their own twist, others stories are similar and some different, and some even more shocking than ours, but it all boiled down to the GREED!

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 6, 2011 10:35 pm

    Webelieved~Yep same with us on the profit-sharing and other things you said! It was definitely the Visual of the Truth and true testament to their ‘real character!’ Not what they ‘snowed’ everyone with! They could no longer ‘fake it.’ and very shocking to say the least! NO denying it, it was in your face~corruption!

    What do you bet the ‘defenders’ avoid this post like the plaque?

  16. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 9, 2011 4:01 am

    I was wondering, since the R3G folks have all the high end toys from MV, cars, motor homes and a pair of Lambo’s, ect how many Black Diamonds are in TEAM? Anybody know?

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 11:37 am

    Orrin is a Royal BD, Marks & Brady are BD; THAT’S IT as far as Black Diamond!
    Out of how many thousands & thousands of people with ‘exploding growth’ for 3 years? What did they ‘hype’ their numbers to be?

    **News Flash** The rest of the PC aren’t even Black Diamond~What do you think the odds are of anyone getting there, when the other PC haven’t even moved on to BD, in 3 YEARS?! And they had their existing TEAMS before they went into MV, from Q/ Amway! What is the odds for anyone else starting from scratch?!!! THINK & WAKE UP TO REALITY!

    And the existing PC/BD haven’t moved on either pretty sure Orrin said he was a ‘Presidential’ but it shows him as a ‘Royal?’ (lower than Presidential) Hmm.. typo error or backwards ‘exploding growth,’ which is it?
    If THE leadership (guru’s) can’t make it grow?Who do they think they are fooling~ only themselves. THINK PEOPLE, it’s right in front of you!

    Too Bad not one of them poor souls, on the TEAM can SEE IT and they just keep falling for the lies that ‘someday’ they will get there! Unbelievable, what a scam!!

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 10, 2011 11:38 am

    R3G is kicking their ‘Royal’ butts!!!!!

  19. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 11, 2011 7:35 am

    Oh they’re royal somethings all right.

  20. humiliated permalink
    May 11, 2011 8:04 am

    I read that none of those R3G people actually OWN those things, they are leased to create the illusion that they were given these things?

    Also, don’t forget that the BDs only have had to make the arbitrary BD “Income” for a short period of time (three months? I can’t recall) but aren’t required to maintain it.

    We are creating the impression that BDs in R3G are actually earning BD income on a consistent basis but that doesn’t appear to be true. Smoke and mirrors tactics run rampant through MV and TEAM. It is just that there are more people to dupe in MV.

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2011 8:11 am

    Humiliated~If I am remembering correctly they give you the Mercede and then if you don’t hold the ‘BD Rank’ you have to pay for the lease.
    Yes the Smoke & Mirrors!

  22. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 11, 2011 9:21 am

    MV pays the lease fee on the high end toys PROVIDED they maintain they level qualification or so I was once told, probably one of the reasons for bulk buying under a dummy ID number I would suspect.

    One Royal BD and a BD in TEAM is an “exploding opertunity”? Imploding sounds more like it as even at the three Diamond levels below Black it is difficult if not impossible to maintain profitability for any length of time after all the expenses and showmanship plus a horendous dropout rate are factored in.

  23. Hell No!!!!!!! permalink
    May 11, 2011 9:24 pm

    Would I have stayed in? R…….U…….F…….ING…….Kidd’n…….Me???????

    My uncle is Mark Huber, some of you have probably heard of him, no?

    He hired me a few years back to do a project at his house and he was acting liek a hot shot as if he was makn big dollrs. Maybe he was or maybe he wasnt?? he always put on a show like he was rolln in the dough, but i doubt it . so, after doing a few grand worth of work on his project (yes, I told him how much it would cost), he told me after i finished the project that he was not going to pay me, he acted super surprised and said “we are family, why would i pay you”

    last time I have ever been to his house. i had a buddy contact me recently and i told him to fuck off…this business and the leaders in it could not be more of a scam if there ever was one.

    [Editor’s Note: I have reason to believe that this is second-hand information and not a first-person account]

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2011 8:10 am

    Hell No~
    I couldn’t help but laugh at the way you describe your experience. I think it was the Hell No!!!LOL
    I am really surprised that Mark would act this way. I always liked Anna. He always seemed the most ‘likable and humble’ guy on the Team.
    But then again I really shouldn’t be surprised @ all; As my mom always told me; You become who you run with! Too Bad & so Sad!

  25. bogart permalink
    May 12, 2011 1:26 pm

    Hell no,
    Is your uncle still in this scam business? And concerning the work without pay because you are family. You should order some monavie and system and send the bill to your uncle.After all you are familyLOL.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 8:37 pm

    WOW OH MY, another triple 100 gone? Don Freeze, was a very good friend of Orrin’s. Geez what did he do now? That same old common denominator?
    I wonder if that is why Orrin is so focused on writting about friends right now, ya think?
    He has lost so many, but most people Do, when friendships are treated as a one sided dictatorship or you look at others as objects and when they are as shallow as an empty bowl of water.
    There seems to be a pattern going on here. Hmmm…..

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 9:05 pm

    BIG-BIG *********NEWS FLASH***
    NOT JUST ONE TRIPLE 100 BUT 2 TRIPLE 100’s ?!!!

    Don Freeze & Matt Abraham, HOLY CAMOLY, the titantic is almost sunk completely they must be throwing the furniture over-board at this point!

    Don was an International Business Consultant!
    Matt Abraham an Attorney! And both best of friends of Orrin!

    You said it webelieved some big hitters and just like everyone else that left them, walking away from the corruption, SAYS IT ALL, without saying anything!!

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 9:13 pm

    Holy Crap we are going to have to set up a Team Exodus-Defectors~

  29. Dorothy permalink
    May 13, 2011 8:22 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  30. Dorothy permalink
    May 13, 2011 9:01 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  31. Dorothy permalink
    May 13, 2011 9:23 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2011 11:04 pm

    I bet you are right with the fear-factor! You raised a very good question, Wonder how they will explain these leaders?
    If it is anything like most(all) the ones we know left, it will be a bunch of ‘whatever sounds believable’ @ the time and the answers are determined by who is asking! Pretty sure they won’t be announcing these leaders have left from stage! It’s left up to the imagination!

  33. humiliated permalink
    May 14, 2011 8:57 am

    Ha! That’s funny Bogart! Good one!

    Regarding “Hell no” and his comment, Mark’s behavior doesn’t surprise me in the least. Someone posted a comment on the Juice scam or Lazy Man site a while back after having returned from a trip to Maui. They stayed at the same hotel as the MV “diamonds” for their “reward trip” and staff at the hotel were less than pleased with the MV folks. The staff apologized for the MV people in advance stating “Those MonaVie people are here again” implying that they were a rude & loud bunch. The person who commented essentially concurred with that statement saying they would NEVER go back to the resort if the MV people were there and the next time they booked they would definitely be making sure of this prior to booking. What was interesting was that the commenter had no other connection to MV but this horrible experience, and that is what prompted him/her to check MonaVie out and comment.

    The above noted comment always bothered me because these people were acting as if they had done something to “earn” their right to behave this way. Not that there is any excuse to behave this way, but then the only thing that they had done was ROB people blind, and they felt superior to everyone for having done this.

    I was also always really offended by how people treated and acted around the “Diamonds”. None of these people deserved the praise that they were getting. It is not like they were Bill Gates-like in their intellectual capacity or business acumen…they simply got into Monavie at the top of the pyramid. Granted some were better speakers than others, but they had honed these skills (for the most part) in previous similar scams. I was always amazed at how other distributors exalted these people, even when I was involved, I thought “what the hell have they done…they just gone in first”? I have to admit, they didn’t do a damn thing to motivate me because I felt they were so contrived in their presentations and their behavior towards their “underlings”. Yuck, I shudder when I think about it.

    I mean, there are people out there attempting to cure cancer and other horrible diseases, earning Nobel prizes, being Big Brothers and Sisters to kids in need, counseling and helping abused women, giving joy to the world by providing works of art in the form of literature, sculpture, paintings, music etc. yet distributors save all of their admiration for top notch snake oil salespeople. Something is really wrong with our world.

    Just sayin’.

  34. humiliated permalink
    May 14, 2011 9:07 am

    Do you all think that this was due to some huge moral epiphany or because these guys see the writing on the wall and are going to leave before the proverbial sh*t hits the fan? It may be that they see the inevitable public failure of TEAM and want to distance themselves before that happens so that they aren’t connected with it in any way.

    Sorry to be a pessimist but I have a hard time giving credit to these people for “seeing the light” and acknowledging that they have contributed to destroying people’s lives, without some form of proof. Either that or tempers are flaring because TEAM is on it’s last legs and there was some sort of altercation that they couldn’t recover from? I don’t know…I just don’t believe that those guys left for altruistic reasons..

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2011 10:03 am

    I am not sure why they left, could be for all the reasons you stated and hope they come here to share that with us. I understand your points and know the agony, when the truth becomes clear. I rejoice when people leave but also know it is going to be very painful when they have to acknowledge they helped destroy people’s lives. This was the most painful for us personally.

  36. May 14, 2011 10:43 am

    Can you provide a little more detail on who these two people are? No need to dish up personal details; more on why this is such a big deal. Were they speaking at weekly meetings and monthly opens? Were they in Amway and for how long?

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2011 12:04 pm


    The reason this would be a big deal first is they were very, very close to Orrin and everyone knew that and 2nd they were both TRIPLE 100’s, this was no small feet on the Team. Matt did some attorney work for the Team and yes, they both continually spoke @ Monthly Seminars & Weekly Opens are on many CD’s and those in their TOP 50.
    They both got in I believe when it was Amway, I know Don did and Matt I think did too or right after they changed the name to Q,(the name chg in 1999) so for years they were in!

    Them leaving would leave a VERY strong message because of their relationship to Orrin and therefore the message would be strong to all those still on the TEAM, without a doubt!

  38. bogart permalink
    May 15, 2011 4:18 am

    Oh Amthrax!
    To answer the blogs original question of would we of stayed in if we knew what was going on. And I can safely say NO! If we would of known the truth of what happened to crossline team members. Like Mark and Raquel Peters. If we would have known the truth of what TEAM did to them we would have left.The problem is the only information at that time was from our upline. Who said there was a misunderstanding between during the transition from Quixtar to MV. I kept thinking to myself what kind of misunderstanding would make the Peter’s walk away from $9000 a month income. As Paul Harvey always said”now you know the rest of the story” thanks to this blog
    My wife and I qualified as Star 500’s for 1 week so there wasn;t much to walk away from. Except for Credit card statements from MV and SYSTEM.

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2011 7:37 am

    You can be proud of yourself for having the guts & integrity, I respect you.

    A misunderstanding,…REALLY? We understand it, IT IS CYRSTAL CLEAR! We have experienced & heard many firsthand stories too about many people ‘cross-line’, others and our very own experience and it is far from a misunderstanding!
    Our personal experiences are a far cry from a ‘MISUNDERSTANDING’ but way to play it down, Teamers; YOU need to be a little more convincing than that!
    Need I remind them of the REGISTRATION! Did they ‘misunderstand’ when they admitted they were following direct orders, and knew there was integrity issues in the registration and slandering people, kicking people out of their groups, etc, etc.?
    There is nothing to ‘misunderstand’ about a ‘deliberate, calculated, strategic plan’ of stealing, threatening, cheating, lying & deception to RANK people?!
    Was it a ‘misunderstanding’ when the dictator gathered their ‘blind followers’ (and they followed), went into the groups to slander, lie about, de-edify and divide? Was it a ‘misunderstanding’ when they told people to put people in illegally and mess with people’s autoships? NO, it is crystal clear!
    Oh I GET IT, it just became clearer, they are right, because any SANE person that isn’t GREEDY with INTEGRITY and MORALS, that understands completely you are RESPONSIBLE for your own actions and will have to answer for them someday, couldn’t possibly ‘UNDERSTAND’ how people could be so corrupt and do things so deliberately to destroy people’s lives, when they say they are’ living their lives intentionally for excellence’ and live by ‘CHRISTIAN PRICIPLES’ and then steal & destruct people’s teams & money, without a phone call, after YEARS of their blood, sweat, & tears, based on slander & lies!
    THERE IS NO MIS-UNDERSTANDING, HERE! YOU CAN FOOL SOME OF THE PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME, BUT YOUR CAN NOT FOOL ALL THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME! Way to go Teamers, seriously, how does your conscience not eat you alive? What $ you are making is worth destroying people & selling your soul? That is why you blindly followed and down-play it and do ‘what-ever’ it takes isn’t it? For the love of money? Unbelievable!
    Truth is Truth doesn’t matter if you label it “NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE” or call it a ‘MISUNDERSTANDING’ countless lives and teams have been damaged, and the ‘results’ are proven by the leaders who left/are leaving, and the facts REMAIN the same! I know you just ‘want it to go away’~ just a suggestion, better solve the root problem or it will never go away. Here’s a hint, the SOLUTION, is not ‘blaming’ the ‘negative truth!’ Have to THINK & try a little harder than that. Good luck for your conscience sake.

  40. bogart permalink
    May 15, 2011 8:58 am

    Speak the truth,
    Thanks for reminding me about the REGISTRATION debacle. We were bound by the no-compete clause. So what did the BIG LEADERS suggest? Oh just register a relative of yours for now and in 6 months when the no compete is over you can transfer the business back to yourself.TOTALLY WRONG…. I should have known better… And after 6 months we asked our upline DAN & LISA HAWKINS how to go about tranfering it back over to out names. They said there is nothing you can do to get it back except the relative could WILL you the business when theyDIE. Thats when my wife said we need to get out of this thing because for one thing they were having us lie about the no-compete clause. Secondly, if we would have made any significant money my relative would have been liable to pay taxes on the earnings because the business was in there name. The good thing is there isn’t much chance of making any money.

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2011 12:12 pm

    Thanks for sharing that and I am really sorry about your experience.
    Sounds like you understand it completely now, like everyone else, including those who stayed.
    Misunderstanding…..what a flippin cop out!
    That must be the ‘nice’ way to justify their corruption and sooth their consciences?

    Thanks, for yet another example of the FACTS and corruption that were told to people to give away ‘their businesses,’ illegally, with the PROMISE that it would be their business again….sometime..?
    And Why tf would the Bigger Leaders follow these orders..KNOWINGLY, tell people to do this?
    Because of fear & trust of the dictators. They had to rank themselves, period!
    I admit it would have been confusing for those not knowing because the dictators only would have told people what they wanted them to know, all the while they knew exactly what THEY were doing and what THEIR goal was!
    The ‘culture’ of Team was and is created; based solely on a (dictatorship), for people to take & carry out orders, so people are used to the information being passed down from the ‘all knowing’ guru’s that convinced people they were ‘Honest & Godly’ and just totally ‘trusted’ them.
    The ‘guru/dictators’ knew exactly what they could do in what time frame with MV, no? How do we know this? It is not rocket science people, because 6 months after the beginning of registration, all of a sudden there was a final date to do any final changes! Except, apparently those they told to put ‘their businesses in other families names,’ couldn’t be changed?
    Must have been against MV rules or not? hmm..

    The leaders having direct contact with their ‘orders’ from the dictators KNEW, THAT IT WAS WRONG and those LEADERS taking those orders should have stood up and stopped it! Instead they lie & cover-up and tell people it was a misunderstanding?
    Real leaders stand on their integrity!

    You will never convince me people aren’t brainwashed and can freely THINK on their own, ‘own their own business’; they only carry out the dictated orders, without question, period!
    This will eventually catch the dictators, and those that continue, in the end. Hint: Big Part of the ROOT PROBLEM!

    It really is beyond my comprehension, knowing they just screwed people out of their business, on purpose & ILLEGALLY mind you, and lay the burden on someone else that did not even chose and/or didn’t have a flippin clue they just became a part of a corrupted scam, as in the case of someone on our team (trusting them to get it changed back) who was told to do the same thing, and ended with the exact same ‘proven result ‘ as your example, they lost their business too!
    What ‘Christian Principle’ is this, again?
    We must have not gotten that memo.

    This made us livid to put it very midly, when we found out they were screwing people, & with all the other corruption being dictated, we confronted the dictators, and people wonder why they stole our teams & money?
    This Should be a no brainer, but those ‘followers’ (not leaders) chose to believe differently, otherwise they would have to face their own true motives.
    The facts of this event, revolt me to no end and I cannot and will never wrap my mind around the corruption, lies, and destroying of others and even more mind boggling how these leaders stay and they haven’t been crushed under their own consciences? All for a worthless piece of silver?
    There is NO amount of money worth that!

    And how dare ANY of them say they ‘lead people to the truth’-GOD!

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2011 1:20 pm

    One more thing on the: “It is not rocket science people, because 6 months after the beginning of registration, all of a sudden there was a final date to do any final changes!”

    That means NONE, absolutely none of the destruction needed to happen! They clearly had 6 whole months to put people in correctly, NO?
    Did they fail to tell everyone this in the beginning to take their time and do it right? “NO ONE will be left behind”~Orrin Woodward
    They created ‘chaos’ themselves with their (‘urgency’ call everyone, every hour on the hour), with threats and other bogus crap, you only had a week to put everyone in, then acted like it was beyond their control?
    Seems they left out that very important little tid-bit; how convenient!
    Could they have ranked themselves if they put people in, ethically, legally & morally, taken the time to not let anyone be left behind or screwed?
    You can answer that for yourself.
    Their “it was so chaotic”~ ‘complete BS
    It was intentionally created by THEM and they need to quit trying to get sympathy, make excuses, or try and justify their shenanigans, with that one!
    Try telling the truth for once, people already know they were cheated out of their (some were) entire groups, have different sponsors, threatened people and can’t get their businesses back, etc.
    Only makes your ‘true character and intent’ show when they look at their groups.
    For God’s sake do the right thing, and stop lying to people!
    Is the ‘truth’ too ‘negative’ for you?
    Shame on you!

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2011 2:39 pm

    After reading both your posts again, I am a little confused. Wouldn’t Mark & Raquel Peters also be your upline? I thought the Peters directly sponsored the Hawkins? Am I wrong?

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2011 3:33 pm

    I am so disturbed and speechless by your statement on what you were told was the only way to get your business back!
    Your relative would have to ‘will’ it to you, seriously?!
    WTF? This is the best they could do for you, are you kidding?
    How appalling! I am so sorry for your experience.

  45. bogart permalink
    May 17, 2011 1:26 pm

    The Hawkins did not seem to concerned about the predicament. It wasn’t as if they were ruthless or said it sucks to be you. At least not that I know of. We didn’t get to talk to them personally. The message was passed down from our BRONZE LEVEL UPLINE. As far as how there business is doing I have no idea I have been away from TEAM for 1.5 years. I believe that Hawkins might have sponsered PETERS on a different leg . But I don’t know that for sure.

  46. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 18, 2011 4:07 am

    WOW, what a bunch of liars,

    I would recommend a very long conversation backed up with a well documented letter to the compliance folks at MV, not that it would do any good other than set the stage for legal action as what was described is some very serious violations of the T & C’s EVERY distributor must acknowledge during the sign up process.

  47. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 18, 2011 5:56 am

    Any confirmation on Matt Abraham and Don Freeze? I was in Matt’s downline and am curious to know – he and the my upline were pretty tight.

  48. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 18, 2011 6:27 am

    If I were you, I would call Matt and ask why he left. I would think he would be honest with you and then you will know right from the horses mouth.

  49. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 18, 2011 6:47 am

    Burned out~I agree with everything you said!
    This thread shows exactly how corrupt, greedy and the illegal shenanigans that were executed directly from the top! No one can say they haven’t been warned, told the truth and chose not to do ANYTHING!
    I challenge any of them to come and DENY these things!
    Believe me there is more stories that haven’t been told.
    It is exactlly why we QUIT!

  50. Rob Thomas permalink
    May 18, 2011 7:40 am

    Didn’t know Matt well enough to call him (don’t even have his number). His wife’s FB page still make mention of TEAM, though.

  51. May 18, 2011 8:23 am

    It would be good to confirm this one way or another, so we don’t spend more time idly speculating.

  52. May 18, 2011 1:12 pm

    This thread blows my mind!!! It seems like every other day some other RT or Triple 100 is jumping ship.

    I wonder how the camping manager is going to spin this one?

  53. I Quit (and glad I did) #2 permalink
    May 18, 2011 8:24 pm

    Hello all! I just found Matt Abraham on the web under,'”Justia Legal Services.” He is still very much involved with Team. He has a blog here that has an article last written May 11th wrote on and post on how great Orrin is. Hope that helps!

  54. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 19, 2011 9:23 am

    Well looks like the long awaited IDS is out from MV (Drum roll please)!!!!

    Guess what, (da di da)?

    They dropped the numbers who are making all this money and replaced it with a percentage (still 99% do not have an ROI) and the top slots (using MV math of course and putting my won spin on it like everybody else does) went from $6M per year (2008) to $3M per year (2009) to $2M per year (2010) ba dum bum 😦

  55. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 19, 2011 1:50 pm

    Thanks for that. Very interesting. Somethings not quite adding up, but I think I get it.

    Burned Out w/MV
    Thanks for the visual & sound~lol
    Another very interesting analysis, Geez still 99% don’t get a ROI, how disappointing with all the ‘proven’ factual researched documents out there you would think they would have a ‘team'( lol) of people with ALL guru status, their ‘influence’ and ‘caring’ and only ‘one’s who have a vested interest in you,’ believe in the ‘Win/Win’ for everyone, ‘YOU WILL make money with our ‘proven’ success system, would be doing a bench marking study, PDCA and be a ‘part of the solution instead of thee problem,’ and having them breaking out of that status quo, no?

    The least they could do is fix That problem, would this not just take a lawyer and some
    FOCUS (part of success principle) to change the comp plan; to benefit all?
    Maybe it is too overwhelming and would be , what I have seen referenced as ‘that would be like herding cats?’ Just curious, I’m not a lawyer. 🙂
    Just makes sense since, this is Thee Dominant flaw, at least on the ‘profit or money making thing;’ the whole reason people get involved, right? Why would such an important issue not be solved and also overlooked, just seems like common sense, since you are in business to make a ‘profit.’

  56. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 20, 2011 6:20 am

    The interesting part is dropping the numbers of distributors and going with a percentage as the 2007 to 2008 to 2009 showed an increase in the various levels and a decrease or modest increase in payout, thus I would guess this shows a decrease in numbers and the top payout dropping, some of the mid level and lover level ranks did go up slightly or stayed basically unchanged. Since it is written in “MV Math” the information on it is virtually useless, unless of course showing it to an uninformed prospect who would not know to ask for more information.

    Still to me it looks like MV has flashed and is on the decline with the top levels dropping in payout and the lower levels picking it up indicating they will not require as many rooms at the next “Diamond Club” trip due to failure to re-qualify.

  57. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 20, 2011 6:46 am

    One thing they did add was a section reguarding “Weeks to Advance” which shows the high’s, the low’s and the average’s to hit the pin levels, or just another statistic which can be slanted to keep people in “Building the Biz” and “Buying into the System” for several years or until thy run out of money. I can just hear the training pitches now ……..

  58. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 20, 2011 8:40 am

    Burned out~I agree. Numbers don’t lie. or as Orrin says himself; Figures don’t lie, but lies sure can figure.”

    The biggest point is the uniformed prostects don’t know what to ask and even if they did they would never get a clear, honest, answer for them so they could make an informed decision. The play is just the opposite, they don’t want you to figure it out.

  59. bogart permalink
    May 22, 2011 4:46 pm

    We believe,
    Our upline bronze relayed a message from the Hawkins that there was nothing we could do to get our business back. Sorry for not being more clear.

  60. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 23, 2011 9:22 am

    I’m sorry to say your upline gave you correct information (For Once) which is why I sugested a conversation with the MV compliance folks naming names and presenting any e-mail’s of other doucments you were given that told you to viloate the T & C’s form your uplines. It may not help you and will probably be “swept under the rug” by MV however it may help others, the next step would be to contact the FTC and BBB AFTER the MV folks give you a lame reason why they can’t /won’t do anything about it. The boiler plate reason would be “You viloated the T & C terms”, however since you were told by your upline’s to do so may make some waves or at least cause some embarissing e-mail’s for them to answer.

  61. bogart permalink
    May 25, 2011 1:18 pm

    Burned out with MV,
    I could do that … but I have no interest in building this scam.

  62. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 26, 2011 9:22 am

    What they feed on is nobody will make waves with the proof about the intentional lies they spread and hope when sombody drops out they just go away quietly after some brief hazing and name calling.

    It’s your choice of course in what you do and the results may not be seen but at least consider a call with the MV compliance folks to report the violations they told you to do and are probably spreading to others.

  63. May 26, 2011 6:30 pm

    I have no idea why those links are going to that page. My recommendation is to always go to the main post page to see the most recent comments. I turned off comment threading a couple of weeks ago.

  64. Burned Out With MV permalink
    May 27, 2011 4:09 am

    MV probably knows more than they will admit, like the e-bay thing years back that was never effectivally acted on, or the tool thing, or the auto compression issue they are just now taking a look at or so I’ve heard or the stacking issue, or the 6 month non compete thing, or cross sponsering drama, or … the list goes on and on. Even if the MV TC folks view the blogs like this one, or so the rumors go, and fail to process the information or at least check it out and ACT they are not better than the rest of the scammers in my opinion.

  65. Steve permalink
    May 28, 2011 9:15 pm

    I do know that Don Freeze has been working with Mike Gowen in Mikes electrical company. Go figure two ex retired triple 100’s working together. Isn’t that crosslining to the nth degree? When I heard about Don working for Mike, I wondered how long Don would last.

  66. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 29, 2011 12:01 am

    That’s interesting. Do you know about the Radosa’s or Spiewaks are they involved anymore?
    I wonder when the rest will quit?

  67. Steve permalink
    May 29, 2011 6:56 am

    I do know them. When I quit in October of 2009 I didn’t see the Radosa’s as much. It seemed to me that they were on their way out. Just my opinion though, I have know way of knowing for sure. The Spiewak’s at that same time seemed to be still going strong. Again just my opinion. I didn’t see the Radosa’s speaking from stage anymore, while the Spiewak’s where at that time.

  68. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 29, 2011 7:55 am

    Thanks for commenting, neither one is on their speaking calendar, so I was just curious.
    Sorry if you have already shared this, but could you share why you quit?

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 29, 2011 11:53 am

    Burned Out W/MV
    I agree with your advice to bogart, to get it on file for their own record.

    bogart~ Even if you don’t want your business back, you could state that and why, who would want it after that anyway? It would be a good idea for your own records.

    The ‘sweep it under the rug’ or do absolutely nothing, yep 100% confident they will not do anything, but still should be on the record, my opinion and our experience.
    Which confirmed for us exactly why there is NO TRUST in any of them and was a ‘aha’ moment, the conclusion and final piece of the puzzle for us.

    In our opinion, lack of willingness to walk your talk, after preaching it for years, integrity, the breach in TRUST, making it right, is the only thing to a sustained and continued growth. The only way anyone can have a lasting long term business, or relationships, is first & foremost TRUST and Honesty. It is simply a no brainer.

    Eventually, people just figure you out. Instead they try to cover-up, make light of it, and silence the people, call them names, deny, ignore, threaten, and pretend none of this ever happened, that will never work! ‘Lesson repeated until, lesson learned!

    It seems elementary and so basic and is what they from both sides of the business, ‘preach.’ These things that happened cannot be ignored or should I say when you chose to do nothing and ignore, then long term you pay the price, it becomes the demise of many things and will self-destruct.

    Would it have been possible to fix these problems at any given time and do something about it? There is no doubt in my mind, instead they just pretended, it was chaotic, never communicated the truth, blasted numerous lawsuits, (to protect the PC money & Orrin system) and people’s excuses for following the orders; were’ they just doing what they were told by the PC. Really? That is how you justify stealing, cheating others out of their own business’, threatening and lying to people, unbelievable?

    Why didn’t they have a seminar,’ special meetings’,( they do for everything else they dictate), with Dallin and the PC with an open questions & discussion on ‘your future business’ that will bring THEM millions more dollars, that people paid to get started in and spent years and years to build, and keeping the integrity, to make sure people understood the rules and to keep the ‘integrity’, “No One Left Behind”, they were supposedly all about?

    My opinion again, but it is a basic principle that cannot be denied. It has been proven by our experience and many, many others (including the team experiences) when denied, the end result will never be a positive one (just read all the websites & posts) and in turn they blame (for what they created) on those who tell the truth? That could only be for those who are choosing to stay corrupt and deny the truth, that value $$ more than their integrity and friendships. Sick.

    As time goes, the truth comes out, can’t get away with it forever (many examples in history to prove that) and the results undeniably reflect the expected results of what they brought on themselves; their ruined reputation, lack of trust, lack of integrity, true character, people creating websites that show prove of the facts, that the chances of making any profit are so small, it’s not even worth speaking of, unless you are getting paid through the ‘the illegal team system scam’(no end users), that pays at least 2 to 3 times more of what the juice comp. plan pays.

    I believe, they are mis-leaders and master manipulators and con’s doing what-ever-it-takes to try and keep their $$ for the few (5 or 6 at the top).

    Doesn’t matter how they dress it up, or frame it, it is so blatantly obvious to those of us who know what they did to people and their business, know only 1% make a profit into the big $$, have seen the way they act when confronted, and what they say about others behind their backs. Experienced their name calling to try and justify with their (failed) guilt tactics, been called cowards, by Orrin and their dictatorship style tactics.

    We are not, bedazzled by the (non) genuine lie of a friendship, BS.

    The simple solution; just do the right thing, correct the mistakes and hold those dictating people accountable, admit your true motives, but something’s always seem to get justified and diversions get created when there is Greed, an over abundance of pride, false sense of power over others, and ego’s bigger than life, involved.

    What good is all that self improvement and so called ‘leadership’ if you only use it to con, manipulate, and hurt others?
    It will be and is self destructing.

    Sorry for long post and thx for letting me ramble. Thanks for the site again, Amthrax and your dedication to it.

    Just seems too obvious; based on our experiences and just my thoughts and opinions. I am so thankful, we could finally could see through the deception, corruption and greed, but what painful lessons and remorse to learn and wake up to, of being blinded (but now can see, definitely amazing grace) participates, and for all the people hurt and the destruction left in the wake, which was so unnecessary or was it?

    What is the auto compression issue? I have not heard of that one.

  70. Steve permalink
    May 30, 2011 9:05 am

    We quit for many reasons, and as stated before in other posts the obvious became too hard to ignore, or not question. We felt that we were lied to by the Lewis’s. During the six month non compete time frame we were promised that we were going to become “The Walmart of the Internet”. We all know where we ended up after the non compete clause ended. I began to wonder why the big pin leaders were no longer involved with Team. What did they know that I didn’t? I began to see attendance drop off dramatically, at both Tuesday Opens and at seminars. Teams were falling apart, and those big pin leaders that stuck around now had to find work, to support their lifestyle. In the summer of 2008 I sat down to have lunch with Mike Gowen (my upline), and asked if he was at that time involved with another network marketing group? He flatly denied that he was, and bad mouthed those whom he thought I got my information from, as well as myself. I had heard from many different people that he was involved with another group while we were still under the non compete clause. So to say the least what ever relationship we still had at that time was now over. It was also at this frame that I heard that MonaVie paid a considerable amout of money to have the Team join them. I began to see our Windsor group (my personal who was at the top of my 2nd or inside leg) had started to ignore us, and he tried to lead the group with the Gowens. Our relationship ended a little more than a year later when I told him that we were no longer going to be involved. There was along the way the misleading statements from stage, that had you believe that those who were speaking had seen the MonaVie plan, and had signed up with MonaVie as their very first business opportunity with network marketing. When infact they had signed up so long ago, it was Amway they got involved with, before it became Quixtar. As I said, the attendance numbers didn’t add up to the claims that were being said from stage, about how the Team was experiencing explosive growth. I remember asking Mike Gowen at that lunch meeting to take me to his guy who is building the MonaVie business as fast, as he claimed. The only quickness that came from that was how fast the subject got changed. The expenses started to weigh on us, as well as the half truths, misleading statements, and the lies. Before we left, and for a little while after we left, we were getting some money from MonaVie to cover our autoship, and whatever system we were still getting. When we decided to give up the ghost, and I told my personal from Windsor he came over to the house on a Friday night with a paper from MonaVie requesting that his leg be moved from my 2nd leg to what would have been Mikes 2nd leg, and become Mikes personal. I told him that I couldn’t do that because the time had lapsed for him to be able to move, according to the MonaVie guide lines. I then asked him why did he come with such a request? He said, and I quote, “so that Mike has more influence on my business.” I almost choked. I guess he didn’t understand how much Mike had influence not only on his business but in his life. I found it kind of funny, after all that work in Quixtar, the non compete era, and the little time with MonaVie, we were getting our expenses paid for and the Gowens tried to take that away from us as well.
    Just an experience that we won’t ever forget. The sad thing is, that of all of the people we made friends with while in the business, we are only friends to the ones that have left as well.
    I just ask each and everyone of you to learn from those of us who have gone before you.

  71. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 30, 2011 10:41 am

    Thanks for sharing that, having the guts to tell the truth, and the integrity to walk away from this greedy, corrupted, illegal, farce. I really don’t know what to say other than sorry, for your experience and the pain this must have caused you.

    Your story is sad, makes me angry, and is really hard to read, and another true testament for others to SEE what they will do to keep ‘the leaders’ in their rank, status, and money. I am sorry to say your story is not isolated or unique they (tried) to get people on our teams to steal their friends groups too.

    I hope people read your story and others to WAKE UP and STOP lying to themselves and others and realize that they are part of something that ruins every area of peoples lives.
    The dictatorship and these strategies come directly from the TOP: the damage to relationships, ruined business’ and the corrution, all of it! How do they seriously, live with their selves and their lies?

    Who and What Big leaders that left; Did they tell you why they left?

    The ONLY reason your personal would be told to shift is because of money, not influence, period. Is this what honest, Godly, people of integrity do, create false influence?
    It is dispicable.
    I am sure Mike was already given the influence through edification and he was already getting paid for your efforts. How sad.

    For those of you who wonder if this is corrupted, wonder no more! What the leadership is REALLY about, what Really happened during the 6-month wait, worship these false leaders, defend, make excues, and continue to follow? Seriously, wake-up, How much clearer can it get?

    If you think this only happened in an isolated group, you are dead wrong!

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 30, 2011 11:32 am

    When will they ever ADMIT, they failed, mis lead, lied, stole people’s personals, do not follow any rules, operating a illegal pyramid, putting other people at risk and 99% losing for their gain?
    All under the guise of Religion, ,Changing the World, Bettering Peoples lives and the best lie, I heard; Saving people from their destructive selves?

    We were told for them to stay ‘legal’, the team profit-sharing was only allowed to pay 50% of what people were making from MV. Either that was a lie or they are opperating illegally?
    They are paying some people, way more than 50%!
    Wouldn’t this make him and others criminals; if they know this and still pay more than 50% thru the ‘profit-sharing’ system? Are they just ‘hoping’ they will never be found out? Wouldn’t they be willing and knowingly, breaking the law?

    Just like everything else, The truth will inevitably show up!

  73. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 30, 2011 8:44 pm

    Steve do you know if Mike and your other personal are still involved?

  74. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    May 31, 2011 8:08 am

    Hey Steve- Pretty much a carbon copy of our thinking as things “came to light”. Kudos to ya for having the guts to walk away on PRINCIPLE! Something our former trusted leaders obviously no longer have.
    And once again its heartening to hear we weren’t alone.

  75. switch permalink
    May 31, 2011 10:05 am

    Definition of legit:
    1. Legitimate; legal; conforming to the rules.
    2. (of a person) Not engaging in illegal activity or attempting to deceive; honest.


    ….Don’t have to look far do you?

  76. Steve permalink
    May 31, 2011 3:01 pm

    I know Mike is still involved, the rest I do not know, as I don’t check the MV site any longer. I would like to say here and now that we didn’t do anything extraordinary that any of you haven’t done. To say that it took guts to walk away because of our principles I’m not sure I believe that. What I do believe is that takes a whole lot of guts and other unscrupleous thoughts to continue the sham that is being perpetrated by those who continue the lie. We would like to applaud all of you who have begun to unravel the truth, and started a forum for those of us to be able to spread the word. It is our wish that those IBO’s, not only whom we got started in this Team, but those who had become friends business partners upline downline crossline, begin to connect the dots, and realize that this opportunity will lead them nowhere, or worse bankrupt.
    Thanks again all of you,

  77. Steve permalink
    May 31, 2011 3:12 pm

    As I tracked back to older posts, I noticed Speak Your Truth asked who were the big pin leaders that I had noticed that left. The list in no particular order, and as well as I can remember three years later is as follows
    J&B Granger
    D&D Abraham
    G&L Rau
    M&C Foos
    T&J Cullen
    The Reeds
    The Dickeys
    I am sure there are others that are not on this list. I can’t remember them all, I will be 54 in a few months you know.

  78. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 31, 2011 8:45 pm

    Thanks again for sharing. That list has some great people on it that put many years of effort into building too. There have been more big leaders who left than stayed and some were as close as you can get to Orrin. That should be a wakeup call to all. Everyone would recognize them on cd’s from speaking and many more that have left.
    But what is saddest to me is it takes many, many thousands upon thousands of people who made up the groups of these well know leaders that never made a dime, put effort in, gave the names of their family and friends too, been deceived and lied to, and watched their teams get controlled by someone else, by direct orders from the TOP PC, who destroyed and destructed it, people treated like garbage, and this would be the majority and way too many to count. That are living with this and not speaking out.
    I do agree with Webelived and also want you to know it does take courage for you to speak out and confront the corruption and it is extraordinary. Think about how many that haven’t spoken out.
    For those who stay and continue to live the illusion and lie, it’s more they have chosen to stay for the money(greed) and ignore their conscience and some because they were getting the ‘attention’ they were looking for because some leaders and the PC, needed them. The PC and leaders poured on the stroking of their ego’s that they never would have given the time of day before and made promises to some that we know they have not kept, just to keep them in.
    At least this is what happened in our groups.
    Here is a cult tactic that played out: People were afraid that Orrin, the PC, or others would find out they were even talking to some of us that left. People refused to call their ‘friends’ back, of many years that wouldn’t even have been on the Team hadn’t it been for them, after they had left numerous messages for them to call.
    The ones who didn’t want anyone finding out they were talking to the leaders who left, they made it very clear that it was in confidence. For us, we would have done that anyways, but everything was ‘secretive’ because they were afraid of people finding out? Cult created phobia?
    WHAT?? Sorry, but that is flipping CRAZY! This was when we knew they were pouring it on heavy to control all communication and didn’t want anyone talking to us or the Big Leaders on our team that left, because they would tell the truth! It sounds like a psychological thriller, sick and twisted, yes we know, it felt that way too! But people were telling us all kinds of things they were being told, about their strategic lies and shenanigans.
    This was definitely “the walls have ears” cult experience for some.
    One person didn’t even want their spouse to know they were talking to us, can you believe this, because they knew that the PC and others would do the same to them and make their life a living hell, and take their influence in their teams away from them! Mafia style tactics?
    After the corruption, destruction and division they created during the registration, the PC and some other ‘leaders’ desperately needed to get as many to stay, as possible~(to try and hold onto their money) because big leaders and many others were leaving them in droves because some of them were asked to sell out their friends, do unethical, immoral and illegal things and they saw the same things we were hearing about during this and after the fact.

    If it had not been for juicescams site and a commenter (compelled me) and then Amthrax site with the ‘ex-team’ post from that commenter from Claude’s team, I would definitely not be commenting on here.
    So speaking the truth has been healing and those who that do help others! Because of their courage and it was from someone on the TEAM with a very similar experience and the other jerked my heart strings and it pi**ed me off enough that it compelled me to come here and share what we knew. I do believe I have received way more than I have given.

  79. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    June 1, 2011 4:58 am

    Steve it is all about principle. How many years did we all strive to live at a level of constant improvement and high integrity? Just to begin noticing the little things that didn’t match the preaching? Oh yeah its about principles. Walking away from income that you’ve BUSTED your ARSE for is not easy, but when the means no longer justify the ends well… I’m proud of anyone who walks away, voluntarily or otherwise, cuz you could fight for it or you can decide that that type of “association” (remember that one) just ain’t worth it.

  80. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 1, 2011 9:51 am

    Correction, my mistake, to earlier post Orrin is still listed as Presidential, once you achieve any rank doesn’t matter if you are qualified, you will always be ‘known’ at that rank. In other words even if you hit the rank once and never qualify for it again, you are still displayed at what ever rank you once achieved. Very deceiving in my opinion, they should every year refresh and show the truth of what peoples rank really is.
    Just like in Amway. Most people I am aware of are at a claimed rank but the truth tells a whole different story, must be that explosive growth? Right.

  81. Steve permalink
    June 4, 2011 5:59 am

    I found the site quite accidently to be honest. I was googling Orrin Woodward to see what shenanigans he and the Team were up to, and came across a link to Ex-Team Members Commenting, and started to read the posts there. I don’t know exactly how I got to the link, but I’m glad I did. To my great surprize (tounge firmly planted in my cheek) I got more information here on this new L.I.F.E. “boondogle” (Chris Brady) than I would had I gone to the Team website. Wonder how “The Wal-Mart of the Internet’ plan is going? Lol

  82. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 9:20 am

    The Wal-Mart of the Internet? When did that happen again? LOL

    I think Orrin explained this on his self proclaimed ‘award-winning blog’, lol, maybe you read this one? He explains that going to the Wal-Mart of the Internet was one of the biggest mis-conception on the Team? What are you freaking kidding me!!NO, another one of many, the biggest lie he told in my opinion!
    I could not believe he actually tried to explain this away, he went on to say something like(paraphrased) that it would take years to make that happen but it was still a dream (fantasy). In my opinion, I don’t think he ever intented it, he was just hoping to find another company he could leach onto that would have better pricing but still allow him to hide his illegal brainwashing system with no-end users just like he has done all along.

    How convient he left that information out, that would have no doubt changed the way the messages were recieved. He LOST all credibiltiy. Then the registration corruption, it all became cyrstal clear! He tried but failed, to cover-up what he knew damn well, was the message he was mis-leading everyone to believe WOULD happen,when they told everyone to resign! Is he serious, this personally makes me question a persons sanity.Orrin said it a million times for years and EVERYONE (the entire TEAM) misunderstood?
    Wow, unbelievable? Makes you go hmm.. wonder if he just talks to convinces himself of these things or is he even aware he is speaking to an audience?

    Either he is the worst communicator on the planet and or is a great deceiver, he selects carefully without giving what he is really saying so he doesn’t have to accept the responsibility? Or is there something else we don’t know about?

    What IF he would have told everyone it Would TAKE years, or never; to create a company that is the Wal-Mart of the Internet PRICING would his plan of raiding Amways downline (according to Amway) would have worked? Would if he had have informed everone he else he didn’t have a freaking clue what company he was going to ‘choose’ for everyone elses future, before the last second, think things would have different for him? All the decisions were based on his FEAR of him losing everything! He didn’t give a rip about others financial future and years of efforts.
    Funny how he thinks those that joined Amway, with the exception of his personals (the entire rest of the Team) was HIS and when he stole ours and others profit-sharing and ‘customers’ he says, Do you own your customers? NO ONE owns your customers? Apparently NO ONE but him? Unbelievable! Double Standards!

    A perfect example of how he twists and turns it on others! And another curious question is; I believe Will brought up, HOW MANY years was Orrin planning his strategic departure from Q/Amway again? While, the entire time all the way up til they resigned/got booted whatever really happend, that everyone was in the Best Business Bar None and KEEP building numbers!! Put on the act that everything was great and Q/Amway was happy with the way we were building, that was obviously a bold-faced lie! Afraid he was going to lose everything?

    He was planning it for years, why didn’t he have the Wal-Mart PRICING CO., ready and waiting?
    He doesn’t fool as many as he thinks,I really just wonder how he lives with himself?

    This is when the obvious became blantantly obvious, because then the ‘bench marking’ study ‘appeared’ and BAM that must be the Wal-Mart pricing, Right!? OMgosh, what a snow job!
    Is this what he calls a vision; more like an illusion and con job to get others to contiue to follow so that HIS and a FEW others idol $$ would continue to FLOW!
    Hindsight is always 20-20. I still can’t believe, that we fell into the biggest scam and lie ever!

  83. Steve permalink
    June 4, 2011 11:30 am

    Speak Your Truth

    It is also known by myself that he had approached the MLM company Escape International, to move the Team there with their organization. If you know anything about Escape, they have many major store chains in place, with all of the brand name products that we were promised for years. This was the opportunity for the Team to get to the Wal-Mart of the internet and they passed on it because Escape would not capitulate to Orrin & Chris. As a matter of fact I also know that the Team used to sell Leadership System to this organization. Escape stopped using the Leadership System as I was told because of delivery problems on the Teams end. When the team approached Escape they wanted control over how they were to handle the system etc. Escape told them at that time thanks but no thanks. Good move by those making decisions at Escape

  84. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 2:54 pm

    Yes! I did here that, just forgot about those shenanigans, I didn’t know until way after the FACT and went to their website and saw they were selling their system! That really pi**ed me off!
    Funny how SOME knew this but they never TOLD others. And what did they do with the MONEY from that semi-secret deal? Some were ‘privy’ to this and apparently the majority NOT!
    The more that is brought up the more it shows their TRUE Character, and GREED!

    SO, they didn’t go because the terms wouldn’t be UNDER their undue influence and CONTROL, hmm… not surprised-dictators!

    They are a dictatorship, NO?
    Then why weren’t all those INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OWNERS not allowed to know about their little behind the scenes deals or able to DECIDE what they wanted to do with their OWN BUISNESS, HUH? They totally, disgust me.

    I have another story to tell that I recently remember that the corrupted, shysters pulled, but will have to tell it later! ANOTHER scheme they pulled on what REALLY happened during the 6 month, no compete wait! Stay tuned!

  85. Steve permalink
    June 4, 2011 4:34 pm

    Can’t wait! It will probably stir something in this old head of mine. Lol

  86. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 4:53 pm

    So in other words; THEY HAD THE WAL-MART OF THE INTERNET, but chose MV because…? They PAID Orrin & the PC MORE and let Orrin keep the dictatorship of his (he owns) the illegal brainwashing/ pyramid scam in tact?
    Wonder what makes him think he owns everything and everybody and can make decisions for all OTHERS Business future and income, without even asking?!!! Wow is this what business partners do in the real world? NOT! I am surprised he hasn’t had the pants sued off him!
    He has screwed MANY people, amd class action wouldn’t surprise me a bit.

    And they want everyone to BELIEVE they are out for the Best Interest of Others, RIGHT!
    Real leaders are servant leaders, they PUT others interest above their own, because that is what true servant leaders do!? Wish they would stop lying to people!

    Doesn’t sound like they are REAL servant leaders; hmm.. let’s see, we PROMISED the Wal-Mart of the Internet Pricing with a vengence for Years, then changed the story to; you all mis-understood the concept?

    Nope, the King (in his mind) from his throne DECIDED MV pays HIM, MORE, besides I will get Jet credits and other perks too!
    Such a servant he is NOT! Self-serving is more the truth!
    More like a greedy, con in my opinion!

  87. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 8:14 pm

    WOW, Imagine That, Selling to COMPETITORS? Yet another double standard! They act like the Mafia if you even think about a competitor! Bring up Black Diamond University or Brig Harts System or Randy Haugen System or anyone elses for that fact and see the response!

  88. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 9:30 pm

    Ok~Steve & Others;

    Anyone else, asked to do these shenanigans? We were but DID NOT PARTICIPATE!

    Right before or right after the 6 months-no compete wait, leaders were asked for them to do this and also for them to SOLICIT their trusted down- line by PC & Big Hitters which got their orders came directly from Orrin. They were told to write a letter of Complaint to the State Attorney General and they were told exactly what to say and it had to be notarized and mail it in a packs!!!!! It stated that Q/Amway was an illegal pyramid scheme, with no customers!!!
    Wonder what the Attorney General would do or how they would feel knowing that these cons were trying to snow them, and when they find out that they were telling people to do this, and it was part of their planned attack against Q/Amway? Wonder what they would do? Hmm..hmm… !!

    Just, makes me sick how Orrin uses people to be his FALL GUYS and puts them in a risk legally, morally, and ethically. I would bet Orrin didn’t attach his name to this bullsh*t, that he expected his fall guys to do when the heat comes down! Really cares about others doesn’t he! He dictates the orders and others just do it, how freaking CRAZY! People STILL follow these guys, must be another one of their Christian Preaching/Principles that we didn’t get the memo on? Do they really think they are above the law, yep, anything for them; the end justifies the means!!!!! Doesn’t matter if it is unethical, immoral or, illegal, we have seen it all! This is how the dictator PLAYS, DIRTY! Such an honest, Christian, NOT!
    There are some big leaders that headed this unethical, immoral and not sure but probably could be illegal too, to get this job done!

    Funny, they NEVER taught to get customers just as they still do not teach. With the exception of in the VERY beginning when they would expect people to drive across the country to see someone’s basement full of product for a demo, that did Not last either and a very brief period of time where the women were expected to spend thousands of dollars on a Beauty Break junk & Machine ($400) and buy and re-supply their Beauty Break Kit. This did not last either, nor did it produce enough customers to even speak of, for most they got none after numerous B.B.! And when that didn’t work they just told people how to get around the customer rule (breaking the rules again) by clicking a button! And they say they LIVE WHAT THEY PREACH. LIARS! That was their extent of product training, and it still is, they teach just to buy from themselves!

    Another separate occasion, another big ‘leaaadeeer’ went to a State Attorney General and tried to personally snow the SAG and convince him Amway was a pyramid and there weren’t any customers too!!! What a tool and brainwashing cult to get this mis-leader to do this and to put themselves in a very risky position for this to come back on them, and what about THEIR Conscience? Umm.., pretty sure they don’t have one! This was carried out by some PC and big hitters that flew over for a special meeting to coach on what to say and carry out the orders!!! They used this platinum pawn to execute their dirty work for Orrin! UN- freaking- believable!!!

  89. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 4, 2011 9:47 pm

    You are correct and we saw that little hush, hush, with our own eyes!

  90. Steve permalink
    June 5, 2011 5:52 am

    Speak Your Truth
    I told you your story was going to stir up some memories in this old noggin.
    Do you guys remember when Orrin had some, not all of the so called mid-level leaders sue Amway independantly from the team. Well it got them all in trouble with Amway countersewing(sp) them and they had to settle with Amway one way or another. I know of one of them was released from the suit because they had filed for bankruptcy, before the ruling was given. We were also told that Orrin would honor our bonus money that we were to get from Amway (Quixtar at the time). If you all remember we were kicked out, left (humm) in August just before the end of the fiscal year for Amway. No year end bonuses from Amway, and I stopped holding my breath for Orrin to come through. Turned a deep shade of red while waiting though. Lol

  91. June 5, 2011 10:00 am

    How did Orrin tell you that he would honor your bonus? Verbally? Voicemail? Email? Contract?

  92. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 5, 2011 12:51 pm

    I did see the bankruptcy (so sad) and people still follow this crooked coward, unbelievable! And People don’t believe it is a CULT, following a cult leader?? When people give up EVERYTHING for a person, including their, critical thinking and their own integrity?
    That would be a clear-cut indicator and obvious!

    Sorry Steve but you hit a hot button so be prepared for the long post!

    Just as in the case of the getting those bonuses, he lies, denies, and never puts Promises in writing like any legitimate person does or holds to his word!
    Despicable how he touts ‘your word is your worth’ then lies through his teeth?
    It doesn’t take a lot of thought on that one; he has proven it over and over! No one has held him accountable, YET, and that is his slimy way of not having to take the responsibility for anything, and his partners in crime follow suit.
    Just makes you wonder, how Laurie knows and lives with the facts they have destroyed and lied to cheated and stolen from so many people?
    Read up about Gideon, in Judges, how God chose him to destroy the idols, and their alter of worship, and conquered the Midianites who were worshiping BAAL.
    Makes you think about those who stand up and tell the truth.
    Maybe Orrin and others will be forced to give up their idols like those people, by the power way greater than themselves.
    Sooner or later justice gets served and the whole truth gets revealed!

    How do they Justify and hide everything? You can’t, just read the blogs.
    Or are they lying to themselves, that they haven’t destroyed, deceived, stolen from others and are in complete denial? Thought they were about facing brutal reality, No, another lie?
    Doesn’t matter how self-deceived and in denial they remain, the facts are the same!
    They KNOW what they did! You can’t solve it by pretending you are a Christian and trying to forget what they did to others; they stole, manipulated, lied to, deceived and cheated everyone!

    It is a matter of the heart, facing the truth and doing the right thing, it is mind-boggling, that they pretend and deny it! Their own Pastor and Mentor doesn’t even have anything to do with them or the Team, not to mention the droves of leaders and thousands upon thousands that have left, including their office staff!?
    Do they seriously think they have gotten away with anything? Are they that delusional and think they are above everyone in their ‘superior knowledge’ and judgment/ denial and the law? How full of themselves are they?
    Why is there a whisper campaign and nothing in writing? The sole reason they use word of mouth; is to dictate their orders, without the responsibility (cowards and cons do this) they just twist the words when you confront them! Great deceivers they are with their tongue. Reminds me of the Shaw Shank Redemption where ‘every con in prison says he is innocent!’

    They LIE and say they didn’t say it right to the people they told it too! I heard Orrin even denied they tell people they don’t preach passive, residual income? What?!!! What a bold –faced lie! Pretty sure you could find that in black and white on his blog.
    They are still preaching that! Insanity! There is something seriously wrong, sick and twisted here in a BIG WAY! Everyone has heard them make those Promises and God knows how many times it was spouted on a cd. We personally believe their word is Worthless.
    Have negative respect for them and know they can’t be trusted, they have proved it beyond a shadow of doubt.

    I believe the PC and Orrin deserve a class action law suit, to be exposed for who they really are and it needs to go public in a BIG way! Those people that were willing to sell their soul for them and still follow, that claim they are Christians, I pity.
    They are considered to be the ‘loyalist’ and the ones who gave up their integrity for a buck? NOT US! Makes you wonder if Orrin and others would tell the truth, sworn under oath, before God? If it is anything like what we have already seen, there would be extreme doubts. When the natural laws and or physical laws come back to serve its justice, they will get no sympathy, none! The praise will never be for them. They deserve to be held accountable for all the destruction, damage, deception and those they stole from, the pusnishment needs to fit the crime for what they dished out. It will come full circle!

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 5, 2011 1:10 pm

    In my opinion, they are heartless criminals, lying thieves, skilled deceivers, who don’t keep their word on anything, who care about nothing or no one except their idol $$ and the illegitimate system.

    Our Pc had the audacity to whine when they had to give their end of year bonus up, KNOWING that everyone did the same! I didn’t see their lifestyle’s change any. Some liquidated a few of their assets, but they were still GETTING PAID PLENTY and flying all over the place, never seen them go get jobs like the big leaders did or sent their wives back to work?!
    Then Orrin gets on stage and praises the PC for sacrificing, are you f-kidding me, like no one else did?! He deserves everything he has coming.

    That is what I believe, how selfish and self-serving these criminals are. All the leaders for that matter, every single person including those who weren’t making a dime (99%) Sacrificed!! I was thinking seriously, is he crazy, he has lost his mind!
    Does he know what he is saying to an audience who just gave up EVERYTHING they worked for years for and followed this farce?
    And then they take the profit-sharing too! I seriously question the mental stability of anyone who would say that to people that know if it weren’t for those 99% efforts and Money he would have never gotten HIS ill-gotten-gains! That came from the 99% others, household incomes!! We were appalled to say the least!
    And couldn’t come to any other conclusion but, he has seriously, lost it!

    So, who got the legal fund money, where is the transparency?
    People put their necks and finances on the line to be ruined (obviously).

    He could solve some things by putting the whole truth to all these shenanigans, backed up with documents on his self-proclaimed award winning website, why doesn’t he do this?
    He doesn’t even let others post on his website, that doesn’t worship him, let alone tell the truth of what they did! How is this free?

    If he walks his talk; Christian, honest and has integrity and expects everyone to believe he is out for their best interest, never did anything, illegal, immoral, or unethical, and then prove it!
    Once and for all with the facts & documentation to back it up!
    Allow people to ask the questions and then prove it!
    What is he afraid of; the whole truth coming out? I believe so.
    They want others to stop telling the ‘negative’ truth that THEY created?
    The damage and lies and destruction are astronomical! Time will tell, until then we will have to tell the truth for them because they don’t have the guts to prove otherwise!

    AMTHRAX~ They put NOTHING in writing! It is all verbal so they can lie out of it, and even when something is put in writing and they make you sign it THE CONTRACT, they don’t even give it to those they expect to be bound by it! They need to be held ACCOUNTABLE!

  94. Steve permalink
    June 5, 2011 4:52 pm


    My upline (Mike Gowen) told me that Orrin was going to make good on the bonuses. And like a lemming I believed.

  95. Steve permalink
    June 5, 2011 4:55 pm


    Aisle 19 was linked to Escape International, the company that Orrin and Chris approached. I found out about all of this 6 months or so after we had left team.

  96. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 5, 2011 5:23 pm

    Our Pc told us they were going after Q/A for the bonus but would have to prove it, right!
    We know how that panned out!

  97. switch permalink
    June 5, 2011 9:58 pm

    Ohhhhh BABY!!!!……another scheme they pulled during that “6 month no compete wait”!

    Like a kid in a candy shop, CAN’T WAIT!!!!!

  98. switch permalink
    June 5, 2011 10:27 pm

    Oh….now that is just down right discusting…..sorry, gotta go vomit in the trash can outside the candy shop.

    That’s just horrible. When will they realize they’re creating their own “train wreck” in life?


  99. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 6, 2011 1:31 pm

    Switch~ LoL
    Yes siree another scheme (one of many) pulled inside the SCAM!
    What else REALLY happened in the 6 month wait?!
    Bet them honest, Christian, scammers want that truth to be silenced eh? What ya think!

  100. Burned Out With MV permalink
    June 7, 2011 9:24 am

    MLM leaders selling tools and law suits, “They go together like peas and carrots”, I think one of the first ones was back in the early 80’s involving Dex, then came the 90’s with Brig, a bunch of smaller ones since. It’s just a part of the MLM game they don’t want to talk about when “Spining Circles” (Old Term) or “Sharing the Plan” (Newer One) or (Insert catchy line here) …………. That would be a funny page to ass the the flip chart’s, “When you hit this pin level be sure to hire a good corporate lawyer for for tool law suits”.

  101. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 8, 2011 9:20 am

    Burned O/WMV
    LOL, great idea maybe you could get that implemented? Orrin and the rest say the only way to prove them wrong; ‘ the critic’, negative, nay saying, losers, quitters, & haters’ is, you’re Success/Results. Success is the ‘best revenge’. Revengeful he is, he proved that by suing, Scott Larsen, the dirty attacks on Q/Amway smear campaign & lawsuits, stealing others profit-sharing and teams during the registration. He obviously, doesn’t even believe his own ‘preaching’, if he did he would go ‘prove’ it with his results. Oh that’s right the numbers are exploding (imploding). LOL

  102. Joshua Taratuta permalink
    November 6, 2011 1:03 pm

    I am still currently in the team and signed up in life. I dont hide my name like most do on blogs because i have no reason to. There are a handful of people on here that say they were in higher ranks within team and left for various reasons of lack of integrity for the most part. I am at a crossroad in what i want to do because I have gained a lot from my time with TEAM most important to me I became a christian because of it, but I have seen some people that were making decent money leave and am just questioning some things I guess. Just wondering why you guys hide your names when giving your testimony of your bad experience? from my point of view if you dont put your names on it how can i really know it’s true? How can i really know you were at higher levels in the team? thanx for any help and info you have given and can give.

  103. November 7, 2011 10:55 am

    @Joshua – Your comment was just approved from the moderation queue. I’m sure you’ll get a lot of response from the Ex-TEAM folk here.


  1. TEAM: What Really Happened in the Six Months Between Amway/Quixtar and MonaVie? « AMTHRAX

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