Skip to content

Dan and Lisa Hawkins – New Policy Council Members on TEAM

July 5, 2011

Hope everyone had a happy Fourth of July weekend!

According to Orrin Woodward, Dan and Lisa Hawkins are now Policy Council members on TEAM. I’ve written about them in the past, first when they were recognized as Triple 100’s. They seem to have risen the ranks in TEAM and MonaVie over the past two years, especially since the defection of the Legacy leaders in 2009.

Ex-TEAM members: What are your thoughts on the announcement? Which “pundits” over the past six months have been writing off TEAM? Surely not the people on this blog, who have been commenting for longer than six months?

Written By Orrin & Laurie Woodward
6/29/2011 12:47 PM

In a time of turmoil, where many faithless people lost their dreams, the TEAM stood its ground, determined to make a difference. Over the last 6 months, when many pundits had written off our community, leaders of character began stepping up across the country. By averaging over two new RT’s per month, the numbers around the country exploded upward by several thousand people. Many played in a stellar fashion, including the current Policy Council members of Brady’s, Marks’, Guzzardo’s, Lewis’s, Hamilton’s, and my super wife. In addition, it is with great honor and pleasure to introduce Dan and Lisa Hawkins as new PC members. Dan, a talented mechanic with no stage to display his immense talents, and Lisa, a day-care business owner with the inner-courage to succeed, have accomplished the prestigious PC level. Through character, dreams, hard-work, and convictions, they, along with their upline PC’s Guzzardo’s, have forged a new dynasty in Wisconsin. Dan and Lisa continue to play the jackrabbit role in the resurgent quest for significance of the TEAM’s mighty men and women. But not only did they achieve PC, they also broke their second RT leg and third RT in their organization, performing in a true Bannister like fashion. At the July majors, we will be announcing the details of LIFE, celebrating all the new RT’s and Triple 100‘s, and in Columbus, recognizing a couple who dreamed, struggled, and achieved their destiny.

I am heading to Europe with my son Lance for the next week, speaking at a leadership conference and touring the D-Day beaches of Normandy. Our ancestors fought for freedom with weapons, but today’s generation must fight for freedom with ideas. If we lose the battle of ideas, the real war is already lost. LIFE is a plan to do something, to restore the West to its former ideals. Where are you? Are you concerned with what is happening around you? Will you answer the call? When our civilization needed help in the past, a Washington, a Franklin, an Edward’s, and others were there to answer the call. Will we sit by idly, waiting for others to get the job done, or will we, like Hawkins, step up and claim our destiny. Destiny is within your reach, pick up the marker and write a new chapter of your LIFE. The significance of your brave actions will echo throughout eternity. God Bless, Orrin Woodward

151 Comments leave one →
  1. No Team For Me permalink
    July 5, 2011 8:36 am

    Why all the emphasis on who hit Policy Council & Round Table? Aren’t they in MonaVie? Those aren’t MonaVie levels? Seems a certain group is more interested in promoting other things besides MonaVie.

    Also, with all this amazing growth in tools and system counts, shouldn’t Dan & Lisa Hawkins be at least Black Diamonds in MonaVie? What level are they now? I could be wrong, but based on Orrin’s post, as a Policy Council with several downline Round Tables, Dan & Lisa should be having well over 1,500 people at functions. Isn’t that the same amount or possibly more than Steve & Gina Merritt had at the MonaVie Annual Convention? And Steve & Gina promoted that function.

    How could someone have the same numbers of at functions as Steve & Gina (who are Crowns) and only be at the Diamond level? (According to company literature, the average MonaVie Crown makes over 30 times what a Diamond makes.) Hmmmmmmm.

    Could it be that they are more focued on moving tools than the company they were supposed to have been promoting these past few years?

  2. webelieved permalink
    July 5, 2011 10:21 am

    “……. many faithless people lost their dreams” -Orrin
    No, many had their money and teams stolen by you and your henchmen. They still kept their dreams just are finding a better way to get them.

    “By averaging over two new RT’s per month, the numbers around the country exploded upward by several thousand people”-Orrin
    Wow haven’t heard of these new round tables, wonder if you got them from another MV group or system? Or I wonder how many tickets and system subscriptions they or their up line bought to hit the recognition? It seems the qualifications and bar may have been lowered for levels on Team, No? What does anyone know about that? Used to be you needed six teams of 100 buts in seats at seminars, to go PC, and 50,50, and 25 to go Round Table? And in Quixtar/ Amway you needed to have six teams making 2-3000 a month at 7500 PV each team, to go PC and diamond. You also had to hold that level for 6 months in a row, so it had to be solid. It seems the bar may have been lowered now on team? I heard the Hawkins only hit Diamond in MV, isn’t that only 20,000 points total, and in MV don’t you only need to hit it two weeks? Could it be Team lowered the bar on recognition qualifications for PC or RT? Maybe to get some recognition going because Brig is kicking their butt in breaking pins in MV? To build belief? Just some questions to ponder.

    “they, along with their upline PC’s Guzzardo’s, have forged a new dynasty in Wisconsin.”-Orrin
    It seems theWisconsin dynasty was stolen from John and Melanie Morgan, Round Tables, Triple 100’s, top 50 speakers, sapphires? Did they not build Guzzardo’s Team, long before Hawkins came on the scene? I think Guzzardo said while he was in his hot tub? Now they are mystiriously gone, and rumor has it they had their business stolen by Guzzardo and Woodward. Who did Orrin give their Team profit sharing teams and money to?

    Didn’t a commenter on Amthrax, say that Saedel’s, formerly of Billy Florence’s group, in Billy’s MV group, crossline in Amway from Orrin, were flying the Hawkin’s flag at a major? That could be a big group, No? As Billy built his teams for decades, much longer then Orrin?

    I found the coments under We aren’t counselors…
    June 25, 2011 10:38 pm

    “………There has been so much talk behind the scenes about Billy Florence’s team. He was cross-line from O in Amway. Then he leaves Amway and somehow ends up being on O’s team. It is my understanding that he left team because he thought the system was too expensive. He was in the opinion that you could be successful in MV without having to invest so much in O’s system. From what I can see, he has done well for himself. Now the real kicker is what happened to those in the Florence team that decided to stay on O system? Before you know it, they start walking across stage under the Hawkins group! So, who decided that the Hawkins would get this group and these system counts and get paid profit sharing from those system counts? They were not even part of their group in the first place! I thought it was really odd to see the Seadels ALL OF THE SUDDEN run under another flag. I have to tell ya, many folks were wondering about this. Our famous over the border cross-line diamonds sure has us all wondering about thier success!…………. I wonder who makes the favorite list and who decides who gets the profit sharing when teams are re-arranged. hmmmmm…”

    ” Our ancestors fought for freedom with weapons, but today’s generation must fight for freedom with ideas.”-Orrin
    Yes that is right Orrin, we must fight for freedom of mind and thinking, and for TRUTH! Ideas are powerful! Especially when they are used for money, power and greed! We are tired of you stealing information and quotes from great leaders of the past, and using them to further your lie! As if you are at the same level as they were!

    “If we lose the battle of ideas, the real war is already lost”.- Orrin
    Actually Orrin when you strip people of their critical thinking skills and make them dependent on the socialism that goes on in Team, then they have lost. When they cannot and are not allowed to think for themselves, have their own opinions, the war is lost! But your checkbook wins, No?

    “LIFE is a plan to do something, to restore the West to its former ideals. Where are you? Are you concerned with what is happening around you? Will you answer the call? When our civilization needed help in the past, a Washington, a Franklin, an Edward’s, and others were there to answer the call.”-Orrin
    Wow Orrin, way to use the fear tactic, just like politicians, the country is falling apart, life is terrible without the Team, blah blah blah. Team is the savior of the free world! Maybe you will even run for president! LOL! HOW DARE YOU COMPARE YOURSELF or your followers TO GREAT MEN OF FAITH, AND CHARACTER ! They are turning over in their graves!

    “The significance of your brave actions will echo throughout eternity.”- Orrin
    Your actions will follow you through eternity for sure, just not in the way you plan. You one day will realize how many people you hurt running the Team scam, and it will affect you for a long, long time. You will realize God is watching and he will hold each of us accountable. Especially for leading believers astray! You will realize you are giving Christians a bad name with your scam. There will be no good excuse to God, for what you have done and continue to do. You will not be able to blame anyone else. Take heed to the warning and open your eyes. The end does not justify the means!

  3. webelieved permalink
    July 5, 2011 10:26 am

    To any Team leader that fits below:
    Why don’t you do what real Christians would do and tell all of the truth? Not just the part that fits your adgenda and money making? Is your silver worth that much to you, worth more then God Almighty? Tell publically- to your team, who and what you recieved from your upline and crossline in profit sharing and mv. Tell who helped build your business and where they are now. Tell your group how Orrin and some of you stole from leaders that spent years of their lives building his and others businesses. The Lord knows the truth, no matter what you try to hide, and the truth always prevails!
    Orrin-
    Get a set ! Sell one of your houses if you have to Orrin and start paying restitution, back and future potential earnings to all the people you and your henchmen stole from, and destroyed their businesses and lives! Open the Team books Orrin, to a third party investigator! Write a public apology Orrin to all the LEADERS who built your fortune, that you and others have slandered and lied about! Answer questions publically Orrin! Show us the contracts Orrin!
    If TEAM leadership is so great it would STAND ON THE TRUTH!

  4. No Team For Me permalink
    July 5, 2011 10:56 am

    Great post Webelieved!

    I wouldn’t be suprised if there’s a big class action lawsuit against Orrin & TEAM in the near future.

  5. webelieved permalink
    July 5, 2011 3:27 pm

    No Team- Thanks, class action, that would be interesting hey? Wondering what else you know? Maybe you could help with some more of your observations and perceptions?

  6. Dorothy permalink
    July 5, 2011 4:14 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  7. Dorothy permalink
    July 5, 2011 4:39 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 5, 2011 10:30 pm

    Very interesting,lol; you folks are nailing it! I will be back. 🙂

  9. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 6, 2011 7:12 am

    “By averaging two new RT’s per month, the numbers around the country exploded upward by several thousand people.” Owen
    Well- the number of venues for functions is down.
    the number of butts in seats at said venues are down
    I don’t know about you guys but something doesn’t quite add up. Oh and congrats to the Hawkins for inheriting more people from someone elses hard work. The integrity of the LOS is obviously always at the forefront. FIRED UP WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    You make me sick.

  10. Chuckles permalink
    July 6, 2011 7:59 am

    There are so many things I could tell about my journey with TEAM, but after reading this post I just want to add one thing.

    Ask Pastor Dickie about Orrins’ integrity. Or just ask him why he no longer associates with this turd.

  11. switch permalink
    July 6, 2011 8:28 am

    ——-x KA-BOOM, goes the dynamite!

  12. Huperdeim permalink
    July 6, 2011 9:11 am

    I Quit: are the actual numbers at the events down? I know the numbers of actual meeting places are seriously down, but I wasn’t sure about actual numbers (thought maybe they were just putting more people in fewer places). How can I get this info?

    Chuckles, I tried that “call pastor Dickie” trick but to no avail. People in TEAM don’t really seem to care enough to make the call.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2011 9:25 am

    IQ~ You nailed it. What school of math are they ‘figuring’ from? I’d like to see the list of 2 RT’s breaking per month for how long, 6 months? Right. Or maybe those were inherited too.How is that EARNING it again? Hypocrites. That would be called Faker Ranker. Congrads to Hawkins all else who inherited groups, hope you telling your teams the TRUTH, let them know you didn’t EARN IT and what your real rank is. WOW unbeliveable, consciencelss souls. They must have lowered the BAR, because things just don’t add up!

    This is histerical that Orrin acts like he is some cowboy, hero, LOL

    Orrin says: “In a time of turmoil, where many faithless people lost their dreams, the TEAM stood its ground, determined to make a difference. Over the last 6 months, when many pundits had written off our community, leaders of character began stepping up across the country.”

    Nice try Owen, think you ought to be honest with yourself. Better go to your upline and have them point out your BLIND SPOT. Oh that’s right you don’t listen to anyone except your self because you see your self as a god and think you are always right. Where did you get this pile of dung from ‘faithless people who lost their dream’. Will you ever tell the truth why all those people left your scam? Let me give you a BIG clue it wasn’t because they lost faith in a dream, far from that, how do you continue to lie to yourself?

    Orrin,You think of everything as a war don’t you? Is this why you practice the 48 laws of Power, I believe you are a sick and twisted person.Does your wife know you read books like this and use it to manipulate and destroy people or have you convinced her you are Godly? You think people haven’t figured you out? Guess again. I’m curious how do you continue lie and deceive to yourself and manipulate others?

    Chuckles that says it all! Great Advice, wonder why Orrin hasn’t told the truth on that one publically? They only listen to Orrin’s lies because they think they are going to get rich. What delusion; when over 99% will never even make a profit!!

    .When leaders are asked why Pastor left, they have the audacity to say “I don’t know I haven’t seen him at any majors?” Can you believe it after years and years of Pastor counseling and being on a stage and mentoring Orrin the coward doesn’t even have the guts to tell people the truth about why Pastor left.

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2011 9:56 am

    “The significance of your brave actions will echo throughout eternity.”- Orrin

    WOW, I would be very careful making this statement if I were him. How many hundreds or thousands have to be deceived and to LOOSE friendships, and marriages; time, money, and energy, to never ever make a profit to push someone into the PC. BRAVE? Are you kidding?

    What echo’s through enternity when you damage tens of thousands of lives through lies, deception, stealing, cheating, manipulating, and covering up and don’t attempt to pay restitution?

    There is no doubt we will have to answer for our actions.

  15. July 6, 2011 11:00 am

    @Speak Your Truth – Tell me more about this 48 Laws of Power book that you have been quoted from recently.

  16. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 6, 2011 11:12 am

    Huperdeim- The numbers at recent events have been discussed in several past posts. By comparing tidbits of info from various sources you can deduce that numbers are down. Can anyone help with more specifics?

  17. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 6, 2011 12:23 pm

    What is the truth about why Pastor Dickie left?

  18. July 6, 2011 1:04 pm

    It should be clear that in every “plan” the speakers emphasis of the community “C” in the 3 C’s portion.

    If the focus wasn’t community then Team would probably promote everyone buy 12 cases on their initial order, since having a supply is just a business decision, so that they could all retail their cases/bottles. If you promote to 1,500 people to each buy 700 PV that would be 1,050,000 which is Crowne’s GV requirement (among other things) and I don’t know what their business structure looks like so it’s too hard to accurately guess what it is they do or did to get it.

    However, if your focus is on community, and by people choosing whether they want the MonaVie or not, you’ll theoretically could advance in Team ranks faster because it’s not a matter of volume of juice PV/GV but system counts, CDs and tickets.

    Dan and Lisa’s RTs they have under them are from my area so to the person who hasn’t heard of them, they do exist. RT btw requires a Ruby Executive level in MonaVie. I know some people who are in Haugen’s MonaVie leg but are still with Team, so I know Team Stealth did absorb people not in their MonaVie PETs, but that’s that person’s choice, is it not?

    “Policy Council Member – Has a minimum of 300 tickets in each binary leg as well as
    have an additional ticket group of 100 from PETs outside the PETs used to meet the
    300/300 binary leg requirement and an additional ticket groups of 100, 50, and 50.”

    Not sure what all that means since I’m not focused on going PC at this moment. This is available information and since someone has a subscription (which to me is ironic) since they are posting Orrin from the Team Blog page.

    LIFE, is going to be an income stream for marketers distributing information in the 8F areas.
    I have some speculations as to how it will be structured but I’m going to assume it will be similar to Team rankings. More of course will be disclosed at the end of the month when the LIFE business model is launched. What I do know is that if you are Turbo 5 systems (5 people subscribing to CDs) and Turbo 10 tickets (10 tickets in your lesser leg) you are qualified to receive compensation.

    Do the other MonaVie training programs out there distribute it’s revenue? Random question.

    Team casts (Team webcasts) are the reason there are less venues for people to attend weekly/monthly. Meetings and Seminars are being streamed to people’s homes for watch parties. The cost for an open meeting webcast is $25 (recommended you have at least 5 people attending outside of the free guests to recoup cost, yet all money over $25 go back to the Team to be distributed to qualifying directors and above.

    Saying that there is no growth due to dimished venues without mentioning Team casts is not a proper perspective of number counts. Again, whoever is subscribing to the Team EBC here doesn’t seem to be disclosing everything.

    As for me, my life would be a lot different (most likely dead) had I not learned to develop a hunger for education. I also believe I have made more of a difference in a few people’s lives by turning them on to a self-directed education and on to mentorship (Thomas Jefferson Education by Oliver DeMille). The money spent on systems, tickets, meetings, hotel reservations, gas, internet, cell phone, inventory, product, and much more have been a great tax write off and helped me recoup any business expenses for the year. Yes, I do make money with Team and MonaVie. I must be in the 1% which is great because it took a lot of work to get there. Only time will tell what happens next.

    (sorry about any grammatical or punctuation errors; I’m not a writer)

    Matt K
    MV# 1004266
    Independent Distributor

  19. TOD permalink
    July 6, 2011 1:41 pm

    Ask him.

    No one gets spoon fed here. (we are not Team)

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2011 5:24 pm

    Amthrax~ The 48 Laws of Power is a book I know Orrin has read and recommended to at least 1 person I know. I have not fully read this only the 48 laws themselves and it is DISTURBING to say the least. You can google it and you can read them.

    There is also another book like it by the same author I believe that has been recommended, 33 Strategies of War. I have not looked at that one so I can’t really comment on that.To say a sheep in wolves clothing; that would be putting it mildly, in my opinion..

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2011 6:40 pm

    Matt
    So in other words, nothing changed, they are just promoting the ‘system’ as they always have and how is this being loyal toMV? If Orrin owned Mv think it would be the same? And how is this legal in TEAM?

    You say;” I know some people who are in Haugen’s MonaVie leg but are still with Team, so I know Team Stealth did absorb people not in their MonaVie PETs, but that’s that person’s choice, is it not?” What about Billy F. Chuck Goechel, Smiths, Crawfords, etc.?

    So you know Hawkins ‘absorbed’ people? That’s nice you are perfect loyal follower. Peoples choice or was there some enticement or soliciating as I have heard? Is that how it really went? Do you think the leaders that did the work for years see it this way?
    What would the Team PC do if 50% of the group decided to go with Randy H. or Brig Hart or anyone of the others? I could tell you, but we will let you figure that out.What do suppose Orrin would do to those people?

    What do you know about ALL the leaders that were on the team did the WORK and Pastor Dickies family that left, got their teams and profit-sharing stolen?

    Does that raise any red flags at all for you?

    Were Hawkins given people from Randy Haugen’s team too?

    HOW is that duplicatible, again? You do claim it is a ‘proven duplicatible system’ do you not? Well Orrin does. Does all the ‘chosen’ ones who ‘absorbed teams’, disclose this?

    Did you decide who ‘absorbs’ the freebies or were names drawn out of a hat? Do you supppose this would have anything to do with helping ‘some people’ rank?

    Do you find that to be deceiving and fair to all the others who didn’t get ‘chosen’ for some freebies?

    Do you not think the other training programs don’t pay and what would give you that idea that they don’t? Random question

    ‘Open meeting webcast is $25’, what happened to the $5 opens?!! People sitting in their living rooms as opossed to paying for a venue? Not making sense there and wow pretty pricy for a living room webcast. What costs need to be recouped there?

    Just curious how would your life “most likely be dead” without the learned developement or “hunger to learn?” I find that a very strange statement? Not seeing the connection to death there.

    What about all those people who lose money over 99%; so you think they don’t do any work; that won’t ever make a profit; so the !% can? And are you just getting paid or are you making a profit? You might be getting paid but doesn’t mean at the end of the year you made a profit. There is a difference.

    I am not an accountant but there are Many sources including on Amthrax that talks about tax right offs concerning MLM, I would make sure you are telling people the right thing, they told us the same things but I have found out differently especially if you are at a loss year after year after year, which as we know almost all are.

    So it only takes 300 tickets in each leg an additional 100 combined tickets outside to go PC, WOW Orrin owes a lot of money to those he and other people destroyed and stole their profit-sharing and teams from.

    Your statement about having people buying 700 PV is absolutely ridiculous and criminal to me, how could anyone with a clear conscience ask anyone to spend that amount of money when you know they will never recoup it! Hows the attrition rate?
    The Team inventory loads we know but to ask someone to purchase that on a regular basis is a total disgrace on top of all the other required inflated costs to be a powerplayer . Please don’t give me the line they sell it, (maybe back to their downline) we know better! We know it is a recruitment business, build and replace and others just buying from themselves. Just ask Brig.

    And from what other prospects say when they have gone to meetings they don’t even let the prospects taste the juice, and the team charges people for EMV at the opens.

    Glad your happy you are getting paid it is just too bad you or others don’t think about the 99% that never will and are takin for a false hope ride, that you all sell them on, and they won’t ever make a profit but will spend a whole ton so you and others can.

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2011 8:47 pm

    ‘Bravery echoing through eternity’; how is absorbing groups that others spent decades building, such bravery?
    How deceptive.

  23. webelieved permalink
    July 6, 2011 10:13 pm

    It appears by your comments Matt that Team has lowered the bar for PC and according to you and another commenter, Hawkins recieved Billy Florence’s group and Randy Haugen’s group?!! We should get all the facts out there. Like the fact that it appears in many areas on team, some favored leaders inherited groups while there were many others who had much bigger teams, more experience, more results, that did not recieve any?
    For example didn’t the Hawkins come from a huge group of leaders in Wisconsin that had much bigger pins? Turbo 100’s, Triple 100’s, RT’s, Top Gun Winners, Rubies ? Anyone remember ? This just doesn’t seem on the up and up. George Guzzardo and Orrin must really like them a lot! I would hate to be the Hawkins if I inherited other leaders groups, system and ticket counts and I didn’t disclose it publically. These freebies would not suprise me, as I know other leaders who recieved profit sharing groups they did not build.

    So who decided who got the freebies ? And better yet, what about the new guy? Why not give them to him? My whole point is really no one should recieve any freebies if the Team is about performance, earning it and fairness! Billy, Randy and the entire Team were promised a residual income! Wether they are there or not, they should be getting paid for the numbers they brought to the Team system, if people wanted to stay with the Team. It is from a good source on Billy’s team, that PC was soliciting people out of his team to stay with the TEAM. If Orrin had integrity he would have told them to go with their upline who’s group they were originally in. For God’s sake, he is already getting paid well for Billy and Randy’s and other’s teams he didn’t build anyway. Team seems to be all about greed, favoritism and deception, and changing the deal, after the fact, no?

    So do all the people in the audience believe that leaders worked and hit levels and really they may have been given huge groups of people? And then they may tell everyone else to do the work and build it from scratch? Some may be telling people they built MV so fast when really they had or were given groups that were built over years in Quixtar? Wow is this all about deception?

    Oh, did I also hear from a credible source, that people are signing up relatives not even involved in Team or Mv and putting them on system? Or that some are buying seminar tickets and hotel rooms for team mates, to hit fake recognition levels? I wonder who is financing that one?

    Are all the suposed 12 Round Tables over 6 months, Orrin mentioned, linked to their original upline or did someone inherit that work too? Or maybe they were stolen by Orrin and Co from the leaders that were screwed over? I would love to know real answers to those questions, answers that only come when the books are opened.

    Matt- P.S. you are a fool if you believe the numbers haven’t went down drastically. Everyone I know reports the Team meetings, opens , majors and seminars have dropped by at least half to two thirds of participants since 2008. This was reported before these house opens started, so they have nothing to do with it.
    LOL. What a joke that is. I pay to go into someone’s house, when it costs them nothing? Have they lost their minds? Thanks for the laughs! I have to say I am glad as the indoctrination won’t work as well for you all at these meetings. Good luck with that one! If I was Orrin, I guess this would be a good way to hide the lack of results, or the backwards results! Kind of like lowering the bar ! Hmmm…………..

  24. webelieved permalink
    July 6, 2011 10:29 pm

    Matt your tax refund/savings makes no sense.
    You said “The money spent on systems, tickets, meetings, hotel reservations, gas, internet, cell phone, inventory, product, and much more have been a great tax write off and helped me recoup any business expenses for the year. Yes, I do make money with Team and MonaVie. I must be in the 1% which is great because it took a lot of work to get there.”

    You are either making a net profit or net loss on your taxes. A loss is a loss. PERIOD. It is eating money out of your pocket if it is a loss! YOU CANNOT SAY YOU ARE IN THE 1% UNLESS YOU ARE PAYING TAXES ON A NET PROFIT MADE IN TEAM.
    It sounds like you have more expenses then money coming in. And for you to say you are recouping your money through tax deductions is a lie, because if you write off 100 dollars in expenses and lets say you are in the 25% tax bracet, you only saved paying 25 dollars in taxes = net loss of $75! A LOSS.
    Does that sound like all those tax write offs are so great?
    Or maybe your upline wants you to believe this write off crap, so you can keep filling his pocketbook with tool money?
    And according to the IRS I was told you can only have a loss for three years to be considered a legitiate business. But don’t take my word on it, check with a reputable accountant.

  25. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 7, 2011 5:45 am

    webelieved and SYT –
    For a couple of ex-TEAM leaders who have gone through the brainswashing and negatives of TEAM, I thought you would have more compassion for Matt, seeing as he’s going through the same things you guys went through. Instead of kicking his ass up and down this board, why not help him see the warts of this business?? You act like piranhas waiting to tear up the same person you were.

  26. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 7, 2011 5:46 am

    And, no, I am not OW or Roert Dickey, or any other leader/member of TEAM.

  27. Adam permalink
    July 7, 2011 6:03 am

    You guys are crazy….the whole post and all the comments are speculation. This long after leaving Team, you spend this much time gossiping and assuming what goes on? I hope that some in this group have decided to move on, and pursue their dreams, trying to make a difference in their life, their family, their country.

  28. humiliated permalink
    July 7, 2011 7:03 am

    Rob, I get what you are saying but it is really hard to have “been there” and have suffered greatly at the hands of these TEAM fools & then hear someone regurgitating the lies to you with such conviction. Also, I know that I have tried to compassionately “talk sense” to people that have already immersed themselves in the MonaVie mindset and it goes nowhere. This whole process of trying to get people to “see the light” is a frustrating one because we are not cult experts or counsellors, we are just doing the best that we can to help people and sometimes we show our emotions too.

    I do want to “ditto” what Rob asked about Pastor Dickie. Are there any specifics or did he just realize that Orrin was the delusional con artist that he is?

  29. July 7, 2011 7:50 am

    Wow, a lot of questions fired at me and that’s cool. I would like to address them all if I can.

    [Editor’s note: I have formatted this reply for easier readability]

    So in other words, nothing changed, they are just promoting the ‘system’ as they always have and how is this being loyal toMV? If Orrin owned Mv think it would be the same? And how is this legal in TEAM?

    –As far as I can tell, the system and what a B-type business leverages, is the key in to success with Team. MonaVie allows those qualified to make sales materials so as long as Team still makes material highlighting MonaVie’s benefits, to me, that’s still being loyal. I’m not sure what you mean by “If Orrin owned MonaVie it would be the same?” Legal in Team you say, Team is the system of training as was Kroc’s McDonald’s University. It is a leadership development company, as they say.

    What about Billy F. Chuck Goechel, Smiths, Crawfords, etc.?

    –I have not personally met anyone that has talked about having been in their MonaVie legs. I could assume, unless someone else knows different, that there are.

    So you know Hawkins ‘absorbed’ people? That’s nice you are perfect loyal follower. Peoples choice or was there some enticement or soliciating as I have heard? Is that how it really went? Do you think the leaders that did the work for years see it this way?

    –Yes, I have met a few that said they are in leg of Haugen but within Team they list someone in Team Stealth as their Turbo 25/RT. I’m not in Team Stealth so I’m not their follower. I don’t know of any enticement personally, could it have happened sure, but hard to say unless you know first hand which I don’t. I could speculate that for someone who still wants what Team offers one of the best groups in the area is the LOS Stealth is in. I don’t know what other leaders think about it.

    What would the Team PC do if 50% of the group decided to go with Randy H. or Brig Hart or anyone of the others? I could tell you, but we will let you figure that out.What do suppose Orrin would do to those people?

    –I don’t know what Team PC would do if people decided to use another training system, I am not Team PC, but I would love to hear your thoughts. If I had to guess, which is what I think you’re asking me to do, I would say Orrin and those involved upline would make less money.

    What do you know about ALL the leaders that were on the team did the WORK and Pastor Dickies family that left, got their teams and profit-sharing stolen?

    –I don’t know anything about this. Unless you’re the Dickies I would say not many really do know.

    Does that raise any red flags at all for you?

    –I have heard of people breaching contracts in other businesses and therefore having their membership/distributorship revoked, so it’s possible this happened in Team too. Again, I’m not on the Executive PC that is in charge of legal issues. Companies get sued and change things within their structure often, Apple for one did it when Jobs left then came back when profits were down. I don’t know if that’s an example you’re looking for but as I understand it from books, it happens in business.

    Were Hawkins given people from Randy Haugen’s team too?

    –From what little I know, yes. As I said before, I have met a couple people who were in Team under different LOS T25/RT and were, after Haugen et all left Team, changed sponsors.

    HOW is that duplicatible, again? You do claim it is a ‘proven duplicatible system’ do you not? Well Orrin does. Does all the ‘chosen’ ones who ‘absorbed teams’, disclose this?

    –Many did not stay with Team as far as I know also, those who liked Team stayed and changed, those who didn’t went with Haugen et all. I don’t think they were “chosen ones” but I do think those who stayed chose to stay. I don’t know about others since I can’t speak for them but it seemed pretty obvious to me that suddenly there were new CDs to replace Haugen et all’s in various packs and the fact Hawkins in a short time went Double RT from RT. To answer your question, I don’t think it was disclosed to every Team member.

    Do you find that to be deceiving and fair to all the others who didn’t get ‘chosen’ for some freebies?

    –I think its fair to give those who wanted to stay with Team the best chance. I’m not mad I didn’t get any but I know some who maybe did not agree. They’re still in “the” Team even if not “my” team. If I had to chose any group in WI out of the, say 4 or 5, I would of chose that LOS.

    Do you not think the other training programs don’t pay and what would give you that idea that they don’t? Random question

    –I’ve never looked at those other training programs so I don’t know, I thought since most of you here were on top of these programs that you might know, was I wrong?

    ‘Open meeting webcast is $25′, what happened to the $5 opens?!! People sitting in their living rooms as opossed to paying for a venue? Not making sense there and wow pretty pricy for a living room webcast. What costs need to be recouped there?

    –Yes to have the stream come to your EBC it is an initial $25, so it is recommended to have 5 people who normally attend $5 open meetings to offset that, any extra $ goes to Team just like if it were a $5 open. The $5 opens are still here as I was at one a couple days ago. Yes, teams are gathering in a home, mostly those who are a good distance from a venued-open. It allows more people exposure to Team. I’m not sure the costs but I believe there are some as it does require bandwidth to stream HD video and bandwidth costs money from companies like Charter/Road Runner/Hughes etc.

    Just curious how would your life “most likely be dead” without the learned developement or “hunger to learn?” I find that a very strange statement? Not seeing the connection to death there.

    –I had always been a rebuker of information, especially information that could help me, before when I was addicted to drugs, cigarettes and an alcoholic. Several times I had threatened and attempted my life. Since my parents were apart of Team and had seen improvements in their lives from some of the information in books they sent. While adamant in my reluctance during one particular hospital visit a few years ago, I was encouraged to read one of those books and it was the start of a new beginning for me. A beginning founded in personal development.

    What about all those people who lose money over 99%; so you think they don’t do any work; that won’t ever make a profit; so the !% can? And are you just getting paid or are you making a profit? You might be getting paid but doesn’t mean at the end of the year you made a profit. There is a difference.

    –People in the 99% aren’t making a profit. I don’t know about them but for me when I wasn’t making any profit I wasn’t doing much work, so I can only guess that those in the 99% are missing something. It might be that they’re not doing what it takes or their approach with people is off. For me it took quite a few months of rejection before I had learned how to be more effective in my approach, either that or I found people who were “looking.” Yes I make a profit. Team isn’t the only business I run. Do you think “non-pprofit” organizations don’t make money for their employees? It’s a lengthy explanation if you hear it from me since I’m not a CPA so I’m not sure of all the right words to use, my accountant does and he does my filing.

    I am not an accountant but there are Many sources including on Amthrax that talks about tax right offs concerning MLM, I would make sure you are telling people the right thing, they told us the same things but I have found out differently especially if you are at a loss year after year after year, which as we know almost all are.

    –You’re right. I do make sure to tell people when they get started about the tax advantages and what might be the right questions to ask their accountant or whomever does their filing. Again, you’re right, I was at a loss the first time I filed after starting with Team. From what I know, which of course may not be always right, you can file for a loss 3 years before requiring an “entity” or like I did an, S-corp.

    Your statement about having people buying 700 PV is absolutely ridiculous and criminal to me, how could anyone with a clear conscience ask anyone to spend that amount of money when you know they will never recoup it! Hows the attrition rate?

    –It was wrong to assume how someone elses business is run. I was merely trying to connect some dots others questioned about Skeritt’s 1,500 people and Crowne rank to Hawkins’ 1,500+ and Diamond rank. I was probably way off on any guesses. I don’t claim to know how they went Crowne or how Hawkins went Diamond. Attrition rate for who? My team? I don’t have a very big team yet so I haven’t had much yet. I expect it though since people quit a lot of things not just MLMs.

    The Team inventory loads we know but to ask someone to purchase that on a regular basis is a total disgrace on top of all the other required inflated costs to be a powerplayer . Please don’t give me the line they sell it, (maybe back to their downline) we know better! We know it is a recruitment business, build and replace and others just buying from themselves. Just ask Brig.

    –I don’t know about inventory loading since that’s not something I encourage my team to do. I have losts lots of money on tools; handing them out w/o getting them back and both new tools completely replacing others or buying CDs to update packs. To me it is apart of business. If you’ve ever owned a “S” business you would know there are supplies/tools/things needed to get the job done. It’s cheesy but, you don’t see a carpenter without a hammer. Do some people/teams promote tools more heavily than others, sure they do. Are people forced to buy any of it? Maybe there are some out there that use scare tactics and what not but I don’t know about it, I don’t see it in my area or hear about it, not necessarily that I would hear about it but you can learn a lot by asking the right questions.

    And from what other prospects say when they have gone to meetings they don’t even let the prospects taste the juice, and the team charges people for EMV at the opens.

    –There was always juice available at my location, I guess not all provide it. I recall the times I had been the money collector for the juice and emv, and out of the 15-20 times I’ve done it, nobody ever bought juice, only emv. At our location we sell the emv for $3, which isn’t much of a profit to the provider even if they buy 12 cases for the discount.

    Glad your happy you are getting paid it is just too bad you or others don’t think about the 99% that never will and are takin for a false hope ride, that you all sell them on, and they won’t ever make a profit but will spend a whole ton so you and others can.

    –I constantly think about the 99%, I encourage them to learn from those who are out there making money and learn what they know. I do my best to teach and help them. It doesn’t work out for everyone and for some it takes longer than others. If they don’t have hope for something what do they have to live for? I’m not saying everyone should live for Team or MonaVie but like me, I had no hope. I believed myself hopeless. It changed when I started learning about myself, about life, about faith. That learning helped me figure out I’m not dead because there is a path for me, and I may not be on that path but I can only hope that oneday I will be on the right path, set for me, by Him.

    Hawkins recieved Billy Florence’s group and Randy Haugen’s group?!! We should get all the facts out there. Like the fact that it appears in many areas on team, some favored leaders inherited groups while there were many others who had much bigger teams, more experience, more results, that did not recieve any?

    –I don’t know who all changed LOS in Team, I can only say about the few I personally talked to, the rest is an assumption. I doubt much of the true facts will be learned here since it would require those who changed to write about it.

    For example didn’t the Hawkins come from a huge group of leaders in Wisconsin that had much bigger pins? Turbo 100′s, Triple 100′s, RT’s, Top Gun Winners, Rubies ? Anyone remember ?

    –Yes, Hawkins upline and since I don’t know their structure I believe crossline had Rubies, RT, TG Winners as far as I know. In my upline there are 3 Golds, 1 Ruby, 1 RT and quite a few Bronze and Silver downline that were not that at that rank when I started but again I don’t know my upline’s businesses, I’ve only seen them recognized for those levels.

    So who decided who got the freebies ? And better yet, what about the new guy? Why not give them to him? My whole point is really no one should recieve any freebies if the Team is about performance, earning it and fairness!

    –I would guess that Orrin, PC and the people changing LOS decided. Who knows except them? If they weren’t put into a business that could mentor and help them what would be that new guy’s chance at learning the proper way? Who knows, they all could have gone to a new LOS of Orrin’s when those defected/left/whatever you want to call it and then it was decided by PC etc where and who their new LOS was to be. Point is, nobody knows why but I’m sure there are many theories like that one, and I agree it is frustrating not understanding why.

    It is from a good source on Billy’s team, that PC was soliciting people out of his team to stay with the TEAM

    –Who is your source?

    For God’s sake, he is already getting paid well for Billy and Randy’s and other’s teams he didn’t build anyway.

    –God’s sake? You don’t think anything Orrin had ever done in Quixtar or Team helped those guys’ business succeed? Orrin co-founded Team so if they were in Orrin’s business, I can only assume since Orrin has helped my business, that it wasn’t only Billy’s and Randy’s efforts that built their team. Who knows? Call me ignorant and apathetic but w/o Orrin, Randy and Billy in on this discussion, nobody will ever know.

    So do all the people in the audience believe that leaders worked and hit levels and really they may have been given huge groups of people? And then they may tell everyone else to do the work and build it from scratch? Some may be telling people they built MV so fast when really they had or were given groups that were built over years in Quixtar? Wow is this all about deception?

    –Again, who knows why any of this is done this way. You’re right though, it does build more belief to newer generations if they think teams can be built fast. There is really no knowing though in Hawkins’ organization how many they exactly inherited so anything talked about it is mere speculation and can’t be contrived as “what really happened.” I have built my 2nd team from scratch with not much upline help but I’m not complaining other teams inherited people. I wouldn’t want that since I don’t think I would be the best support and help for a large group yet. I hear most speakers from Quixtar when they mention building it fast, they say “industry” or “profession” they don’t single out MonaVie. I have heard others say they did it all in MonaVie but that didn’t bother me knowing they didn’t.

    Or that some are buying seminar tickets and hotel rooms for team mates, to hit fake recognition levels? I wonder who is financing that one?

    –I have bought a hotel room for some of my team, it was a bad decision since I lost some money doing it, I learned that lesson. When my upline went RT, I thought they had bought extra tickets to achieve it, which I’m sure happens (I have bought an extra case of MV in a pay period to hit a certain pay level, not rank) but I don’t buy extra tickets, they have consignment.

    Are all the suposed 12 Round Tables over 6 months, Orrin mentioned, linked to their original upline or did someone inherit that work too? Or maybe they were stolen by Orrin and Co from the leaders that were screwed over?

    –Nobody can answer that accurately. Stolen? Again, who knows the real answer? Just because you question it doesn’t make it viable.

    Matt- P.S. you are a fool if you believe the numbers haven’t went down drastically. Everyone I know reports the Team meetings, opens , majors and seminars have dropped by at least half to two thirds of participants since 2008. This was reported before these house opens started, so they have nothing to do with it.

    –Everyone you know? Are they in Team? Which location? I don’t know. What I do know is within my team and downline in the taproot numbers are going up. I can imagine though in some areas there are declining numbers but whether or not I’m right, I believe numbers are going up, Team ranks don’t go up unless there are more people, or in the odd chance the bigger leaders are all “buying extra tickets” to rank. I can’t know about their teams for sure, but in my area there are more new faces all the time, many don’t attend the hotel open since teamcasts are available. I have seen a crossline friend go from Bronze to almost Gold, Turbo 10ish to almost Turbo 50, with lots of new people in their group when they all meet up at the seminar.

    You are either making a net profit or net loss on your taxes. A loss is a loss. PERIOD. It is eating money out of your pocket if it is a loss! YOU CANNOT SAY YOU ARE IN THE 1% UNLESS YOU ARE PAYING TAXES ON A NET PROFIT MADE IN TEAM.
    It sounds like you have more expenses then money coming in. And for you to say you are recouping your money through tax deductions is a lie, because if you write off 100 dollars in expenses and lets say you are in the 25% tax bracet, you only saved paying 25 dollars in taxes = net loss of $75! A LOSS.
    Does that sound like all those tax write offs are so great?
    Or maybe your upline wants you to believe this write off crap, so you can keep filling his pocketbook with tool money?
    And according to the IRS I was told you can only have a loss for three years to be considered a legitiate business. But don’t take my word on it, check with a reputable accountant.

    –I think I answered this earlier in my post but I’ll rehash; Team isn’t the only thing I do. I have an S-corp. I’m not an expert on all financial deducts, but my reputable accountant is. Of course I pay taxes, don’t you? Yep, 3 years is what I heard too but only if you’re filing under your own SS, not as a corp, etc. I may be wrong but I believe there are many large corporations that are at a net loss year after year, possibly car manufacturers, airlines, those things reported by the news (but take the news as you wish).

    I’m not trying to persuade, defend, or make accusations about what you believe to be happening within Team and/or MonaVie. There are a lot of good points and questions asked here, however without Team’s executives, MonaVie’s executives, R3Global’s executives and all here to “set the story straight” no much of what I’ve read here really holds much weight to me. I love to bring prospects here too to show them what kinds of questions people have but regardless of what you might think goes on in everyone’s business, there are many false accusations made. I know what is true within my team and from what exposure I’ve had to some PC and I just don’t get that feeling a lot of you might have. I know I haven’t experienced all the same things and of course my attitude may change if something like what you claim happened to you happens to me, if that makes sense? I love learning. I have a new found hunger for it. I like to read the books from the system. I like laughing at many of the CDs and the stories they tell. Even if I lose it all, I will still retain what I’ve learned and apply it elsewhere, like I do with all my relationships. I don’t believe every distributor is the same, I believe there are some out there with less integrity than others, and I don’t blindly follow Orrin and do everything they say, if I did I don’t believe I would still be me. I’m an sold out to learning, my education is going to go to someone or some company somewhere, at least here I know it’s going to my upline, who I like even though I don’t always agree with them on some of the things they say or do and that’s my choice. It’s my money, my team knows that it’s their money too and I believe we are entitled to do with it what we choose. Sorry if my ramblings don’t make sense or my answers to some of your questions don’t help you with finding out what you’re after. All I can say is I’m doing the best I can with what I have at this moment.

    Thanks for reading.

  30. I'm a Lifer permalink
    July 7, 2011 8:16 am

    Standing Ovation toward Matt. Well said and I couldn’t have said it better myself. 🙂 As I’ve said in other posts. This is Our business..as Matt said, we aren’t blindly following. We all have freedom of choice in anything we do.

  31. July 7, 2011 8:30 am

    Don’t you find it great how when engaging with others and you think you’ve communicated fully what you want to convey and then you find, hear, or read something that brings to light another great point? I love that! I’ll get to that in a second.

    First though, I want SYT and others to really read between the lines of my post. Again, I’m not here to convince you otherwise of your own beliefs and experiences. I do though, want to share with you my beliefs and experiences. Would you agree that someone’s definition of words may be different then someone else’s? If you said yes, thanks, so in my responses I gave I used obviously my definitions and I know this may be different, we’re all different yet connected. Also, would you agree that when reading, we often put our own tone and attitudes into what we’re reading, after all is it our own voice in our head we hear when we read to ourselves. So in that, I wrote this with an attitude and tone of friendship, extending what I know to help or hurt what you know. If you were to read it as such, I believe we can come to a better understanding of each others points whether we agree or not.

    So here’s what I just read that seemed fitting to me, its from the book “The God Who Is There by D.A. Carson,” he writes:
    “It is impossible to be completely, endlessy open because even that endless openness is based upon the assumption that such endless openness is a good thing – so if somebody then says, “it is not a good thing to be endlessly open,” those committed to endless openness feel they must reject that person precisely because they cannot be endlessly open to the person who does not hold their view of being endlessly open. In other words, in a finite world there are inevitably boundaries. There are inevitably inclusions and exclusions.
    “Moreover, even an appeal to truth is inevitable. In an earlier generation, often truth was analyzed to death under the rubric of psychiatry and psychology.”
    It goes on to say:
    “That was a generation ago. Now we handle things a wee bit differently. Now we say that truth is shaped by community. Truth is merely what some particular group or any individual in the group perceives.”

    I found this provocativly profound given the situation, as I understand it, with this board. As I understand it, the community of this board are all believers in what they perceive as truth. Which to me, on the surface, feels correct given the way you communicate with others who post that are not “endlessly open” to your perspective having that they won’t understand what you’ve been through since they are/were in a place you once were. What do you think?

    In Team’s LIFE, Faith is an F. Faith in my life is a big part of it. I don’t want to go into too much detail about why, unless you really want to know, but I have learned more about my faith, my belief, and my purpose through many of the books in the AGO (formerly ERM) series of offerings. I don’t say this to get into a debate about where I perceive Team lands within this area or where you believe they should go within your own beliefs. I simply say this because like all of you, I am fallen, and I am not perfect, and I understand faith’s importance, and I also understand the importance of growth.

    Anyways, enough out of me for now.

  32. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 7, 2011 8:35 am

    I’ve been where you are. Good luck. I only hope you come to your senses before you lose too much. Its great you’ve straightened out your life- but you don’t need Team to stay that way. Team can do a lot of damage in other areas of your life. It’s these things we hope to help anyone who will listen to avoid.

  33. July 7, 2011 9:00 am

    IQ: What other areas are you referring to?

    Dorothy: I do read the Bible. I have read NKJV, NIV and NLT. I also like to volunteer for my church, participate in its plays, fundraisers, events, and charity. I also like to augment my reading of The Word with others, who like me are men of God, and whose explanations of things help. Don’t get me wrong here, but the Bible was written by men, albeit men who dealt with God the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit. But I cannot believe that books written today by men of God are in the wrong, but I agree there are books out there that do not share truth under the Word of the Lord.

  34. July 7, 2011 9:08 am

    @Adam – How is the “whole post” speculation, when it was copied from a webpage authored by the TEAM leaders?

  35. July 7, 2011 9:30 am

    Dorothy: Not to get too off subject with the whole post, but I have read the entire post and it’s comments. I believe though we are going to have to agree to disagree about perception of truth. I may not share in their view but that, to me, doesn’t make any of us the beholder of truth. If you wish to debate further about religious context and how it pertains to each of our situations in life, please email me, I don’t think our discussion needs to clutter this board.

    The context of my quoted piece, to me, is related because it refers to how God legislates as opposed to how we perceive individuals’ view of truth within groups that do not have the same view. Please feel free to read the book for yourself and apply it to this board’s community as I would love to hear your understanding of it. I didn’t mean to offend you, if I did, by my use of literature when I happened to have a thought. You aren’t trying to quash my freedom to think and deduce personal thought are you? I know you’re not.

    I’m a Lifer: This isn’t “our” business. This is Orrin’s business. That should be clear because Orrin and the PC determine what happens within the organization. I believe there are checks and balances that keeps what they do with their business legal but we are, so to speak, in his employ. It seems similar to what Quixtar/Amway was doing when ToD wanted their own “rules” within their organization, the contract they signed as IBOs said differently. I could be wrong though but this what I’m understanding from many of the comments by people here.

  36. switch permalink
    July 7, 2011 9:33 am

    “–I had always been a rebuker of information, especially information that could help me, before when I was addicted to drugs, cigarettes and an alcoholic. Several times I had threatened and attempted my life. Since my parents were apart of Team and had seen improvements in their lives from some of the information in books they sent. While adamant in my reluctance during one particular hospital visit a few years ago, I was encouraged to read one of those books and it was the start of a new beginning for me. A beginning founded in personal development.”

    Why the guilt trip approach? Conning everyone around you about your struggles with life and feeling sorry for yourself certainly is a norm that we’ve seen throughout team and past posts here. I see it’s working for you.

    I would love to hear your “plan”.

    “I found this provocativly profound given the situation, as I understand it, with this board. As I understand it, the community of this board are all believers in what they perceive as truth. Which to me, on the surface, feels correct given the way you communicate with others who post that are not “endlessly open” to your perspective having that they won’t understand what you’ve been through since they are/were in a place you once were. What do you think?”

    Looks like you’ve only scratched the surface then, Matt. So what exactly is the truth behind Team’s history? This is YOUR business, correct?

    Why don’t you fill everyone in on the truth behind that one.

    [Editor’s Note: Formatted reply for readability]

  37. July 7, 2011 9:35 am

    Dorothy: Since the Bible alone contains detailed predictive and fulfilled prophecy, it alone can qualify as being authenticated by God.

    Great point. Thanks! I still have much to learn.

  38. July 7, 2011 9:43 am

    Why the guilt trip approach? Conning everyone around you about your struggles with life and feeling sorry for yourself certainly is a norm that we’ve seen throughout team and past posts here. I see it’s working for you.
    –It was not my intention to guilt trip, I was merely trying to share a part of my life. I was in a low place and it wasn’t the Team that did anything, it was my mom who offered me a book to read. The book happened to come from the Team’s Book of the Month. I like the information. I like to share what information I learn with those I get exposed to. It’s no different than the sharing of information here, right?

    Matt. So what exactly is the truth behind Team’s history? This is YOUR business, correct?
    –I don’t know all of Team’s history or how much if any is the truth because I wasn’t part of the experience and even if I were, I would still question my own subjectivity in it. I commented about what I thought in being “our” business as we were both writing our comments.

  39. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 8:46 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  40. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 9:01 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  41. switch permalink
    July 7, 2011 10:08 am

    “–It was not my intention to guilt trip, I was merely trying to share a part of my life. I was in a low place and it wasn’t the Team that did anything, it was my mom who offered me a book to read. The book happened to come from the Team’s Book of the Month. I like the information. I like to share what information I learn with those I get exposed to. It’s no different than the sharing of information here, right?”

    It wasn’t your intentions???? But you have no problem stating it, and throwing it out there, correct? In fact, you told us all that you’d probably be dead. What a sad deal, Matt.

    [Editor’s Note: Formatted reply for readability. If you want to “comment” other people’s post, use the <blockquote> and </blockquote> tag around the quoted text.]

  42. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 9:09 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  43. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 9:18 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  44. July 7, 2011 10:28 am

    Swith: It wasn’t your intentions???? But you have no problem stating it, and throwing it out there, correct? In fact, you told us all that you’d probably be dead. What a sad deal, Matt

    I couldn’t find a better way to convey a message than to share from my life. If that, to you, was trying to guilt trip, then I apologize, it truly wasn’t my intention. A life altering event was what prompted me to open up about seeking help, I could have been a number of things that awaked something in me to fix the situation I had put myself into. So yes, I put it out there not in an attempt to seek pity or guilt but to tell about where I came from, mentally. Was that wrong? Please the, help me so I can share it without swelling up emotions in others.

    I was on a path to self destruction. Had I not been open and exposed to new information, like I said it wasn’t anything Team said or did it was a book from my mom, I would most likely be walking that same path of self destruction because I myself would not have changed what I thought about me. Sad as it was, it is my past and I cannot change what happened or what I did.

    Does that clarify my intention for you? If not, then again I say, let me know where to improve so that you will understand, if you want to.

  45. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 9:45 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  46. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 7, 2011 11:03 am

    Hey Matt- Read all the posts and attached comments. When you’re done you’ll have your answer.

  47. webelieved permalink
    July 7, 2011 11:44 am

    Matt- I am glad you had a life changing event. I am glad you stopped drinking, self destruction, etc. Your change had nothing to do with the Team, except your mom bought the book from them? You could have gotten it at the Christian bookstore right? Or the library for free?
    We are not against personal growth, development, or religion. What we are against is claiming they are Christians and then using deceptive practices, deceptive recruiting, deceptive recognition, lying, slandering of leaders, cheating and stealing!
    Of which some of those at the top you follow and promote have done. Some of your comments above are way off and twisted to your perception or maybe the perception you and your upline want others to believe. I see you have learned well. 🙂

  48. webelieved permalink
    July 7, 2011 11:50 am

    Matt- Go read Ex-team comments and all the other posts and threads here and then come back. Go Read Merchants of Deception. We shouldn’t need to spend our time repeating real facts. Someone who doesn’t want to sound ignorant, would do their research before they speak. Be back later 🙂

  49. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 7, 2011 2:43 pm

    Matt~
    Thanks for answering some of the questions and your pretty slippery about avoiding others.

    Your post are going to take quite a bit of time I don’t have right now. Will say this though;
    4 stars for you buddy on planting them seeds, you have become a ‘master’ but will get to that later. 🙂

    What level are you and who is your upline?

  50. July 7, 2011 3:06 pm

    SYT:
    You’re welcome. Feel free to point out the ones I missed, unless they’re the ones I don’t know about, and I’ll do my best with what I know.

    Yes my posts got rather lengthy trying to answer all the questions and what not thrown out there. Take your time, hopefully your responses will be with the subject of this article, and if you want to discuss anything else. Email me: teamlifeleadership AT gmail DOT com (For Dorothy too)

    I reached Silver pin but am paid Bronze weekly. My upline are my parents. I’m in a Guzzardo leg.

  51. July 7, 2011 5:10 pm

    Dorothy:
    They aren’t any big leaders or anything but I do wish to keep their names out of it.

    Why is that important to you, may I ask?

  52. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 4:51 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  53. July 7, 2011 5:59 pm

    @Matt – You’re under no obligation to answer Dorothy’s inquires about your name or the names of your upline.

    @Dorothy – As much as you and others would like to know this information, we should respect their wishes if they choose to remain anonymous and be silent.

  54. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 5:36 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  55. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 7, 2011 7:07 pm

    Amthrax~ You are right. My appologies Matt, my bad. Thanks Amthrax 🙂

  56. Dorothy permalink
    July 7, 2011 6:10 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  57. switch permalink
    July 7, 2011 8:19 pm

    With all do respect Matt, I’m not the one admitting to being a drug addict, alcoholic, and clearly someone who needs alot of help here.

    I can tell you one thing, it’s going to take a little more than just one of O.W.’s tools to turn that deal around (or numerous tools of his).

    So yes, to use that to promote your biz (I’m sure with some fake tears along the way to “silver”) is just a little bit more than deceptive.

    Have a good night.

  58. July 7, 2011 9:20 pm

    My upline Turbo 25 are my sponsors. I don’t have a 2nd team in Team. I’ve never claimed to make money with tools etc. What money I do make comes from MonaVie commissions from a few right leg distributors and preferred customers. All of my distributors were preferred customers who wanted preferred customers of their own. There is a new Income Disclosure Statement on MonaVie’s website, but I think you already knew that.

    switch: I have admitted to have been addicted and yes it took more than one book to help my personal growth, like I said before that first book sparked a hunger to grow, it’s also in the Bible. I know I need more help which is why I continue to read books and follow God’s path, not Orrin’s. I never claimed to be on his but I know I’ve been accused.

    I know this article has derailed a bit and has been more aimed at me than at my small ability to answer questions regarding the article which I figured would happen.

    I posted my real name and distributor # because MonaVie said something about having to display that when addressing and discussing online. I have also mentioned income and levels and should have linked the IDS, in accordance to their policies and procedures. It was my sole idea to talk about Team from my perspective and without going through all posts/comments know how passionate you all are at conveying your experiences. If anything I probably gave the site MORE things to discuss which I’m ok with. I’m not some answer guy though I do like to help in understanding.

  59. switch permalink
    July 8, 2011 7:06 am

    I have admitted to have been addicted and yes it took more than one book to help my personal growth, like I said before that first book sparked a hunger to grow, it’s also in the Bible. I know I need more help which is why I continue to read books and follow God’s path, not Orrin’s. I never claimed to be on his but I know I’ve been accused.

    If you haven’t noticed, everything you say is linked to O.W., whether it’s your train of thought, inspirational quotes, books/tools and yes, “God’s path”….which he preaches. What I find ironic is you, yourself can’t even admit to being on his path. Denial?

    I know this article has derailed a bit and has been more aimed at me than at my small ability to answer questions regarding the article which I figured would happen.

    What? Derailed?…….this is about you, correct? Hope you can see now, that they’re training you well.

  60. Dorothy permalink
    July 8, 2011 7:35 am

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  61. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 8, 2011 12:41 pm

    I find it very interesting that again another drug/alcohol addicted indvidual claims that the Team is responsible for keeping them clean and sober but then states it was one book that Matt’s parents gave him. Implying 2 different messages. A lot like lifer? Now, I am not trying to deny ‘your experiences’ in life, and it may be the case, just seems real odd that those coming here basically have the same story with the same common replies.

    Matt what was the 1 book you are talking about that was this turning point? Do not take this wrong, if your story is as you say it is, I do have compassion for the struggle with your addiction, just not that impressed nor does it make sense to me that it seems you give the Team the credit. I hope for your sake you are not playing with the sympathy card, only you know this answer.
    I agree with Dorothy and wish you well, but something isn’t adding up with your claimed level and it definitely raises the questions for us who have built teams.

    You also have skirted some direct questions, which again is a typical sign of those ‘under the influence’ of what I believe is some sick and twisted leaders, who try and control the lives in and outside of the business in every area of people’s lives.
    Ever heard of the book 48 Laws of Power, that would explain my beliefs of the sick and twisted leaders you are following. There is no doubt in my mind that you are being influenced to say what you are saying.

    WHY ARE YOU REALLY HERE, YOUR TRUE MOTIVE?

    You say you are NOT a part of the Hawkins group but yet you come here under this thread to ‘help people to understand’ and are interested in the topic? What is it you are trying to get others to ‘understand.’ and why are you so interested in your cross-lines business? I hate to rain on your parade but we don’t fall for deception and lies, and can spot the team speak a mile away. Now those of us who are on here have had years of experience up close and personal to the mis- leaders and have built large teams. We KNOW the team destruction, lies, and deception and it is continuing even now, and know exactly why this is. You are mastering the skill of manipulation and skirt the direct questions and spin it, just as you are taught. You say you are not trying to change our view, or others experiences, but I fail to see why you are here, well I have a good idea. You are taking the approach ‘the other guy’ did.

    Here is one example I asked you:

    “Does that raise any red flags at all for you?” simple enough yes or no question and here is how you answered:

    “I have heard of people breaching contracts in other businesses and therefore having their membership/distributorship revoked, so it’s possible this happened in Team too. Again, I’m not on the Executive PC that is in charge of legal issues. Companies get sued and change things within their structure often, Apple for one did it when Jobs left then came back when profits were down. I don’t know if that’s an example you’re looking for but as I understand it from books, it happens in business.”

    This is the seed you wanted to plant isn’t it? This is one example of how you and the Team manipulates and tries to subtely ‘plant the seeds’ of either what you’ve been told and are repeating and you are implying that ALL those leaders who LEFT ‘breached contracts.’ You seemed to have pulled that out of thin air. And what contract are you implying people breached?This was a simple yes or no answer and you went into this long bogus bullsh*t twisting to send this message.

    Matt you need to open your eyes we cannot be manipulated by the team tactics. So, nice story bud but you don’t have any crediblity with me, just because you pretend to be ‘nice’. You very well may want to mean well but you are learning to play the game all to well.
    But you don’t have a clue of the experiences and truths we have experienced. So as many have recommended;go read the ex-team comments. You say you weren’t in at the time of transition, then you can bring no understanding or even have a clue, so you can’t possible have the knowledge or experience we have had, therefore no need to discuss something you know nothing about.

    Good luck but as I have told your cheering partner ‘lifer’ who chose to skirt out of the last thread, with his cop-out “God is Good” and refused to answer questions then shows back up as if he wants to participate with this BS.

    You can choose to believe whatever you wish but we will not stand back and let you destroy others with what we have experienced as a very corrupted, lying, decieving, cheating, covering up of truth and the manipulative game that is played with others and is destroying lives. Not without us telling our side ‘freedom of speech’, we would not be here if we weren’t convicted and 100% sure of the destruction we know happened and is happening.
    You are entiled to have an opinon and believe whatever you wish, you know nothing of what we have experienced.

    So lifer thought you were out of here?

  62. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 8, 2011 2:29 pm

    The ONLY way evil men and women will win; is if Good men and women stand back and do NOTHING! Suppressing the TRUTH is NOT an OPTION!

  63. Dorothy permalink
    July 8, 2011 9:54 pm

    Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge

  64. Dorothy permalink
    July 8, 2011 10:45 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  65. humiliated permalink
    July 9, 2011 8:36 am

    Matt…you say

    ” This isn’t “our” business. This is Orrin’s business.That should be clear because Orrin and the PC determine what happens within the organization. I believe there are checks and balances that keeps what they do with their business legal but we are, so to speak, in his employ. It seems similar to what Quixtar/Amway was doing when ToD wanted their own “rules” within their organization, the contract they signed as IBOs said differently.”

    Then you say;

    “I have losts lots of money on tools; handing them out w/o getting them back and both new tools completely replacing others or buying CDs to update packs. To me it is apart of business. If you’ve ever owned a “S” business you would know there are supplies/tools/things needed to get the job done. It’s cheesy but, you don’t see a carpenter without a hammer. Do some people/teams promote tools more heavily than others, sure they do.”

    I am confused…are you trying to make money through TEAM tools or do you just constantly throw money at Orrin and his “business” to stay a part of TEAM and for the opportunity to lose more money ? Are you in his employ or are you just supporting his charity by buying his “tools”? ON the one hand you seem to imply that it IS a business and that you work for him selling his tools, then, to avoid the whole “pyramid scheme” on top of a “pyramid scheme” allegation that the media has made, you imply that these are merely learning tools for you to “grow” your MonaVIe business and that you aren’t out there flogging them on your downline. What is cheesy is to use your carpenter analogy. A carpenter doesn’t need a new hammer everytime he goes out and does a new job, does he? He buys ONE set of tools and that lasts him for years. Also, he can buy them from whatever store he chooses, no one is telling him that he has to purchase them at Home Depot. It is too costly to run a business by buying new equipment every week or month. That is how you run a successful business.

    THen you say;

    ” I’ve never claimed to make money with tools etc. What money I do make comes from MonaVie commissions from a few right leg distributors and preferred customers. “

    and

    “I constantly think about the 99%, I encourage them to learn from those who are out there making money and learn what they know. I do my best to teach and help them. It doesn’t work out for everyone and for some it takes longer than others. If they don’t have hope for something what do they have to live for?

    Really? Did you JUST say that? That they should ‘live’ to be the 1% that sells a product that has been PROVEN to contain very little nutritionally (and that, my friend, is not “perspective”, that has been proven in a lab by a doctor that works for MonaVie, but I guess you knew that) and an over priced energy drink & weight loss products, just so they can be financially ‘free’? That they should ‘excel’ at stealing money from their friends and family in this blatant pyramid scheme? I guess without the hope of “financial freedom,” our lives mean nothing? You should go and visit a third world country sometime and see how happy the people are and they have a whole lotta hope, with very little materially. When did your moral compass get so off track? I suggest that you go to the juice scam site to learn more about products you are flogging.

    YOu should also know that there are many other products making exactly the same claims as MonaVie without the scientific evidence to support the claims, exactly like MonaVie. Wanna know why? Because they are pyramid schemes/commercial cults that prey on people exactly like you who have been down on your luck and are looking for a quick fix.

    You can use your ‘perception’ and ‘attitude’ arguments all you want but at the end of the day, these are pyramid schemes and they have destroyed many lives. The law will eventually catch up with Orrin, Dallin & Brig and then we will see how “mis perceived” they have been.

    You state that you are seeking out truth.You state that you love to read and learn. If you REALLY believe in this whole operation, read the books that are suggested to you by these folks. If you read them and you still believe that what you are doing is right, morally, ethically, spiritually and legally then have at ‘er and you will see the light some day.

  66. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 12:44 pm

    Great Points Humiliated and Dorothy,
    There is so many inconsistencies and just plain BS-cult Team -speak, in his post. It would take mile long posts and days to point them out.

    Here’s one:

    Matt says :”It should be clear that in every “plan” the speakers emphasis of the community “C” in the 3 C’s portion.”
    “If the focus wasn’t community then Team would probably promote everyone buy 12 cases on their initial order, since having a supply is just a business decision, so that they could all retail their cases/bottles.”

    NO,The focus has to be the community in Team because it is a pyramid and no one has many if any real customers, they count their sponsored people as customers. And the Team does ask people to buy 12 cases so they can inventory load. This Matt is why people run out of patience with all the twisted BS. They have people spend $1000 under someone else’s number in the bottom then expect those inbetween to repurchase those cases on top of their expected other orders. So, just because YOU don’t ask your team to do this, there Are plenty in the Team that does. We know who sends the orders.

    Another one:

    Matt says: “I don’t know all of Team’s history or how much if any is the truth because I wasn’t part of the experience and even if I were, I would still question my own subjectivity in it.”

    Matt you just admitted you weren’t apart of it, and by ignoring the history of what you are a part of is not wise. That is like saying I never knew Bernie Madoff was ruining people and stealing from them in his past and it doesn’t matter what happened, because that would be my ‘subjectivity.’ Your cult leader himself loves to repeat : “Those who don’t learn from history are DOOMED to repeat it.The facts are facts so it isn’t ‘subjectivity’ there are FACTS and this is why there is SO many websites and people speaking out! You don’t have to believe them, it is your choice.

    And another one:

    Matt says: “First though, I want SYT and others to really read between the lines of my post. Again, I’m not here to convince you otherwise of your own beliefs and experiences.”

    Matt, This kind of garbage is nothing but games and I am not into the manipulation of ‘reading between the lines’ and already know you won’t change our experiences.
    Is this how you communicate in the real world, by expecting others to ‘read between the lines?”

    Another one:

    Matt says: “People in the 99% aren’t making a profit. I don’t know about them but for me when I wasn’t making any profit I wasn’t doing much work, so I can only guess that those in the 99% are missing something.”

    More cult-team speak. How do you NOT KNOW about the 99% of your team NOT making a profit? You say you don’t know about them, then you say you ‘think about them all the time?’

    Matt says: “I’m not trying to persuade, defend, or make accusations about what you believe to be happening within Team and/or MonaVie. There are a lot of good points and questions asked here, however without Team’s executives, MonaVie’s executives, R3Global’s executives and all here to “set the story straight” no much of what I’ve read here really holds much weight to me. I love to bring prospects here too to show them what kinds of questions people have but regardless of what you might think goes on in everyone’s business, there are many false accusations made.”

    LOL! Seriously?What are the good points? You love to bring prospects here? You really don’t expect us to believe that do you? Did you not read MV advice to NOT click on, to comment, or go to ‘negative websites’ and you definitely don’t have a clue how Orrin operates. Orrin doen’t want you here although I think it adds to his already way out of line ego and loves it when people ‘defend’ and worship and praise him.

    False accusations you say, and tell us again how you know this, thought you needed MV,TEAM, and ReGlobal ‘to set the story straight’ so how can you call them false when you weren’t there or don’t know the whole story and you are not here to make accusations? Seems to me you just did. You are entiled to that opinion.

    I will assure you MV knows plenty of the facts stated here. And Teams sick and twisted
    ( if you only knew there is so much not said even here) leaders that will go to any lengths to hide the truth, even if it breaks the law. Are you seriously that naive that you think they are going to admit to breaking the law or inform you on anything we say here? What they do tell you will just be false accusations, wouldn’t it, because we won’t be there when they tell ‘subjective’ lies. No, just like you they want people to ‘read between the lines.’

    You are right you are not an answer guy, and I seriously don’t have the patience for someone who wasn’t there, didn’t experience it, hasn’t even been in long enough to know anything and then come here to tell others, what we say is a lot of false accusations.
    You are not qualified.

    Matt says:” It’s my money, my team knows that it’s their money too and I believe we are entitled to do with it what we choose.”

    You are absolutely correct it is your money and you do have a right to spend it how ever you wish, even if you do want to give it all to Orrin,(not wise) but you said it was Orrin’s business? The real problem is you have a team and by deceiving people with false hope they will make money is wrong, it is mathmatically PROVEN 99% never do, MV IDS shows you this even though ‘you don’t know about them’. How can it be your team if You work for Orrin and do you tell ‘your team’ they are working for Orrin too? Is this the BS loophole they have found to skirt the law and are they telling you this that you work for Orrin now? How clever that would be, now they openly admit your a slave? You pay Orrin to work for him? So it isn’t ‘YOUR BUSINESS’? Who does this, that would be flippin CRAZY and extremely foolish.

    If you think I am not as ‘friendly toned’ as you, well my friend, when you learn and know what we know, and witnessed what we have, and if you have an ounce of integrity you will find the understanding.You are defending people who lie, steal, COVER-UP some serious sh*t, manipulate, break the law and are great deceivers who speak and expect others to ‘read between the lines.’ all the guise of religion. Do you not think this makes God angry?

    I will give you this, you at least tried to answer questions with a ‘friendly tone’, whether that is sincere, we probably will never know. Understand we were around the TOPP for many years and thought they were sincere also, until the TRUE COLORS came out.

    Go read the EX-TEAM Comments and all the rest and keep an OBJECTIVE EYE OPEN, when you stop refusing to automatically believe what they tell you and open up to the fact that everything said on here is not false accusations(this many people wouldn’t be lying) and use your gut instinct, use the same ‘openness’ and give us the benefit of the doubt as you do the mis-leaders you are following then you might see the facts, but I already know you have fallen for the ‘group think’ that is fed to you on a constant basis.

    Rather than you come here and try to get us to ‘understand’ what we already know you have been told to believe by people that have every reason to hide and lie. THINK, follow the money trail. What would we be trying to protect vs those who we are exposing? Common sense, use it. You weren’t even there, seek understanding of those whom have again ask why would anyone come here just to expose the corruption? I promise you NONE of us our getting paid but they are making multimillions to convince you and others. Stop the team speak in your head and THINK on your own. If this was a site about Bernie Madoff, would you be so quick to say people are making a lot of false accusations? What makes sense to you, who then has the most to lose, all the reason’s to lie and cover-up all the ugly truth?

    Editor’s Note: Reformatted for better readability

  67. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 1:19 pm

    Matt, Here is a list of some of those leaders that have ditched Orrin and only 1 name on there that wasn’t confirmed and doesn’t show up on any speaking circuit for team, and this is why I asked you:

    “Does that raise any red flags at all for you?”

    Updated List of Ex-Team LEADERS that left Orrin and and Team:

    Now the question for all new people looking at this list is simply this: Are all these people BAD as Orrin will lead you to believe? Or is it possible that they all left because they all had one thing in common? That being their relationship to Orrin Woodward and SEEING his true colors. I do not know anyone who develops this many enemies and Orrin blasts all of these individuals by slandering them and lying about them as they left team. I think the problem lies with Orrin. What do you think?

    Updated List – RT Members:
    Jeff Granger
    Raquel Peters
    Dan Abraham
    Pat Edwards
    Greg Rau
    Tom Cullen
    John & Melanie Morgan
    Pat & Lisa Semple
    Janel Brost
    Brian Rodman
    Matt Zimmerman
    Don & Chris Freese
    Matt & Cherly Abraham

    PC Members:
    Randy & Val Haugen – PC
    Billy & Peggy – PC
    Mark Crawford – PC
    Lance Smith – PC
    Chuck Goetschel – PC

    Team Office:
    CEO – Bob Dickie
    Chief Legal Counsel – Kevin Thompson
    Bob Cassidy (another executive at the office)
    Team Legacy: CEO – Ron Simmons

    Orrin’s Mentor/Pastor:
    Pastor Dickie (man, Orrin has got to know that he is a BUM when his own Pastor wants nothing to do with him and his business either.)
    The list continues to grow.
    These people are not all stupid, cowards, losers, nose pickers, thumb suckers, haters or people who were not meant to be leaders. They are simply decent human beings who recognized wrong and decided to do what was right. Kudos to this group!!

  68. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 1:30 pm

    Another example of how the questions get avoided: You didn’t answer how it is duplicatible or if you claim it is a ‘proven duplicatible system’ by giving others someone else teams. If they weren’t ‘chosen’ then how did they get Randy H. and Billy F. teams? Did they just show up in their group, somehow?

    I asked, “HOW is that duplicatible, again? You do claim it is a ‘proven duplicatible system’ do you not? Well Orrin does. Does all the ‘chosen’ ones who ‘absorbed teams’, disclose this?”

    Matt says: “Many did not stay with Team as far as I know also, those who liked Team stayed and changed, those who didn’t went with Haugen et all. I don’t think they were “chosen ones” but I do think those who stayed chose to stay. I don’t know about others since I can’t speak for them but it seemed pretty obvious to me that suddenly there were new CDs to replace Haugen et all’s in various packs and the fact Hawkins in a short time went Double RT from RT. To answer your question, I don’t think it was disclosed to every Team member.”

  69. John permalink
    July 9, 2011 6:29 pm

    Speak your truth, you list a number of people that have left Team. If the truth were told I bet few of them if any of them would have anything good to say about Team or Orrin Woodward. But leave that aside. If the Team business was as good as they say it is why would all of these people and thousands of others leave such a great opportunity? The reality is that the Team business is a giant money pit that leaves nothing but dissappointment and devestation in its wake.

  70. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 9:41 pm

    John~
    I believe you have said it in a nut shell. I have spoken to some of them personally and know why they left, not all, but it is obvious by all those others experiences, including our own personal experience and NONE have been a postitive one. Ironic isn’t it.

    If people really knew how Orrin and Laurie and some other PC acted and treated people behind the scenes (ones that left) it would make your hair curl. Every single one I know that left have seen the Team and PC for who they really are. Orrin is NOT a leader nor as self controlled as the front he puts on. He is a bully and personally think he is very sick with greed an worse with a narcassistic ego. And Some have experience his true colors more than others.

    I don’t even think this is the original list because I just thought of someone not on it. Some of these leaders individually had thousands in their groups, so this list really doesn’t do it justice and was not meant to leave those others out. So feel free to add to it, It is very disheartening that all those people believed in this lie, lost hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions collectively, and to end up being slandered and lied about, stolen from, treated like dirt, and most tried walking quietly away and getting on with their lives. But Orrin’s ego could not take it, he has to try and ‘destroy’ you completely because “if you are not for him you are against him,” period. He still won’t let some people move on with their lives and tries to control them. I could say a lot more here but I would start speaking some choice words so best to leave it die for now.

    Ironic isn’t it, they tell people to ‘get on with their lives’ but yet Orrin is still trying to control some people’s lives. Orrin and his minnons are still trying to control what others say and intimidate people that have been gone for years, very sick & twisted and just goes to show how out of control his ego is. But screams freedom of speech and freedom when the lawsuits happened and it benefits his propaganda. The hypocricy is incomprehensible.

    Pretty sure most have got on with their lives, not without much regret, pain, or finacial losses. The ‘defenders/brainwashed’ folks continually throw that out, for all those on here and other blogs by calling names like broke losers who just didn’t want to do the work, haters, quitters, gonna have to go to work for someone else the rest of our lives etc.. and a couple have even said they were in ‘awe’ at how much time we spend ‘bashing’ the team. I’m pretty much in ‘awe’ at how they want to whitewash and cover-up their shenanigans. LOL

    I have a news flash for them, first they don’t have a clue how I or anyone else has got on with our lives or what we do. And if they are judging everyone as not moving on in life because they come here to comment, then they need a check-up from the neck-up and will have to re-think their judgement and STOP lying to themselves.

    We are NOT on here because we are losers, haters, quitters, didn’t stick with it long enough BS, etc. and have nothing else better to do. I believe I can speak for myself and pretty confident for the others also that the reason we come here is because we care about others who will be deceived, roped into the cultish, /mind contol and undue influence and to tell the truth about how corrupt these people really are. We are NOT ‘jealous’ of ‘their so called success, quite the contrary.

    We are on here because they were found out! Funny how none of them have answered us why they come here, LHOL 🙂

  71. webelieved permalink
    July 9, 2011 9:56 pm

    I have also heard some about Mike Barret, and Jones brothers? Anyone want to comment?
    Anyone know anything about these guys?
    How can anyone ignore Pastor, Bobbie, Ben and Kevin Thompson, and all the rest being gone? AMAZING !! Here’s your sign!! LOL

    .

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 10:08 pm

    I could be wrong but if I had to guess from EXPERIENCE, Matt probably got a ‘ hey buddy/ scolding’,call from his upline and told not to come back. Poor soul doesn’t even have a clue how controlled he really is. Just guessing but if that is the case, I hope he recognizes and wakes up to the signs of being controlled. I sincerely, feel for those, including Matt, who are blinded by the ‘Christian facade’ and they ‘appear’ so kind and out for your ‘best interest’ but they are all wolves in sheeps clothing hunting you down like a heat-sinking missle to capture,change, and control your time, money, and beliefs to suit their ’cause.'(greed & power)

  73. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 9, 2011 10:11 pm

    Webelieve, Yes, I don’t think I copied and pasted the most current list, Chris Smith and those you have mentioned are not on there. I actually copied that list from one of your post, I wonder if there is another post somewhere?

  74. switch permalink
    July 10, 2011 12:41 pm

    Are you kidding me? We saw Matthew going to go huddle up with his “mentor” along time ago.

    As for getting on with our lives….. don’t worry, we have and are making a real difference in others’ lives by telling the truth on what happened. It feels soooo good. And they call that CRAZY????

    I don’t think I’ve ever seen people coming back from being knocked down from such a cheap shot in life with such a powerful swing in return.

    What a powerful blow we all have to offer!

  75. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 10, 2011 1:43 pm

    Switch LOL 🙂 You always make me laugh.

    When those who do come here and other blogs to name call, avoid direct questions, deny what we say, etc .( their free choice to believe what they choose), as if we are the ‘negative ones, making this garbage up’ it is just very humorous and it really displays how UN- positive and hypocritical they really are. That is one of their so called ‘trade marks’/being positive/love bombing. They shout to the world ‘how different’, they are from the rest of the world, when in fact, they are worse and lower than a snakes belly (in my opinion) because they are misleading/deceiving or implying and faking it and lying to themselves that they have a great attitude and are so positive, but you only need to read their posts and experience the PC in action and see this is not the case, with a very few exceptions from the more manipulating ones.

    I do believe we are making a positive difference, and I find it hysterical they try and brainwash the masses that the ‘negative naysayers’ (telling the truth); the leaders they tell themselves ( massive ego) had no influence in their groups during the time they slandered and lied to our groups and are the ‘death gargle of a non-achiever’ but they OBVIOUSLY don’t believe their own lies. Heehee, Seriously this makes me laugh hysterically.

    The difference between us making a positive difference and what they are trying to do (silence the critic/their negative motive) is we want just the opposite to happen; we want people to THINK FREELY and on their own, and let others make their OWN decisions after hearing our experiences. Now I know their argument would be totally different, but I stopped giving a sh*t a long time ago what they THINK is my motive after I realized what theirs was.

    I would say to anyone who comes here to read this blog, if after you read ALL the comments and still decided it is for you, then great, have at it, charge on, rip it up!
    But DO NOT expect others to agree with your personal decision without us considering all the others that we know will be affected in a very negative way in every area of their lives, because that’s where the line gets drawn. I feel I have a moral and ethical obligation to tell the truth. So, If they could get a whole team of people to agree after reading our experiences without manipuating them and letting them decide for themselves, then good luck. 🙂

  76. Jason DuPree permalink
    July 10, 2011 6:15 pm

    Get your information correct to start with. The people that you listed who supposedly left TEAM and you’re incorrect on many, chose not to develop a leadership community. We’re not a MonaVie community, we’re a leadership community. Many chose to leave because they felt entitled to something that they didn’t earn. Gotta love these blogs where the cowards hang out and try to lure the rest of the cowards into their pity pot with them. Enjoy each others misery while the courageous continue to make a difference.

  77. webelieved permalink
    July 10, 2011 8:35 pm

    I really cannot add anything to this thread! I love it! Speak- It is so funny how proteamers use the perception, subjective bulls***t! They are so brainwashed it is sad really. They cannot use common sense. I feel so bad for them, as I was that way at one time. BUT I have to say, there was nothing going on like the shennanigans that have happened the past few years. They have really hit new lows! I cannot imagine how sick I would’ve felt knowing this crap happened to people I knew. and the deception they use now, and me staying and pretending. PUKE! No way! I do not know how some can look themselves in the mirror! The fakers that know what happened and stay, discust me even more then what they did ! It must be hard to sell your soul and integrity for money! I can imagine your conscience must bother you, no? I hope they think of everytime they say passive, residual, blah blah blah income! Or when they say how great their corrupt PC is!
    I can say I have a CLEAR CONSCIENCE! So thankful the Lord saved me from this destructive, dellusional, demented business and it’s fake relationships ! To Him be the glory! I pray they give up their idols and repent !

  78. webelieved permalink
    July 10, 2011 8:57 pm

    Speak I agree with you and feel the same, I feel I have a moral and ethical obligation to tell the truth. I follow the REAL TRUTH not the Team twisted “truth”!
    I know people that say “they are leading people to the truth” on TEAM, when really they are leading people into lies and deception! I believe they entice them with money and materialism, and keep them with heresey?They use only parts of scripture to fit their adgenda, and leave out parts that don’t support them. The sad part is most people do not know enough to catch this. It is so scary isn’t it?

  79. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 10, 2011 11:23 pm

    Webelieved~ The more I learn, see and hear about Orrin, PC, MV and others in the false ‘dreams’ of the industry the more THANKFUL I become and I Thank GOD everyday that we are GONE! The truth just keeps getting uglier. Their so called ‘leadership’ is showing up in their actions are definitely screaming louder than their words, and they are really being found out. 🙂

  80. I'm a Lifer permalink
    July 11, 2011 6:16 am

    I have Don Freeze’s number. I will contact him and find out if what you are telling me is accurate. We will see if indeed he left Team and can tell me why.

  81. switch permalink
    July 11, 2011 7:41 am

    Glad I can make you laugh, Speak.

    That was my point when I had disagreed with Matt on derailing the thread. He may have thought that it was derailed but really it wasn’t.

    As a matter of fact, Matt admits to making money in M.V. and doing quite well but if you notice, one of the first things we learn about him is all about his drug/alcohol problems in life. It works for him and therefore, he will use it in his favor. Please note, it becomes all about him. That’s why I said I would love to see his “plan”. Every trail they try to leave, it leads to no where. The proof is in his writing, here.

    As they say, “let the juice sell itself”, correct Matt? If you think you’re going to sell us on the juice just “tasting good”, maybe it’s time you become honest with yourself here and realize what you’re doing.

    You have the cajones to tell us your distributor number, show us your plan on how you went silver.

    Oh, you’re damn right….we can read between the lines alright.

  82. John permalink
    July 11, 2011 7:58 am

    Anyone involved with MLM’s needs to read the book by Athena Dean Consumed By Success. Team and other MlM’s are preying on people’s basic need for recognition, belonging, success, acceptance, and purpose in life. These groups also feed the desire for material things that slowly becomes a consuming fire that eventually detroys their ability to think independently. The result is that no ones opinion is valid except that of your upline leader. Anyone else is simply an enemy trying to steal your dream. When a person gets to this point (as they all eventually do) they are now in a cult mentality and don’t even know it. Read the book by Athena Dean. Read her other book All That Glitters is Not God. I’m a lifer, the people who left Team number far more than the few thousand that are still there being deceived by a business that does not work. Understand this that for everyone that loves Orrin Woodward and company there are thousands who despise them for being misled by them. I don’t think this has ever registered with the leaders of Team. In their fantasy world where they are adored and worshipped they have not understood that outside of that little arena they are held in such contempt and disgust.

  83. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 11, 2011 7:59 am

    SYT – your list is incorrect, at least as it relates to Matt Abraham. He’s still in.

  84. John permalink
    July 11, 2011 9:05 am

    No Matt Abraham is not still in!!!!!

  85. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 9:32 am

    John~
    Thank You a ton for the book recommendations, I will read those as soon as I can and really appreciate that and your comments. I have heard of this author and had written it down somewhere and lost it! 🙂

    Rob~ First off it isn’t ‘MY list’, this list was generated by people that have came on here to confirm those they knew had left, I stated I copied and pasted it so this was a collection of names from many. I also stated, that I know and have talked to some, not all, and also stated their are many more I could add but the list was mainly of the bigger pins. I thought you would have understood this from the posts. If there is someone you would like to add, feel free.

    Looks like John aswered your question.

  86. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 11:51 am

    Orrin says: “But not only did they achieve PC, they also broke their second RT leg and third RT in their organization, performing in a true Bannister like fashion.”

    So according to the comments in this thread and others, the Hawkins (mighty men & women?) ‘performed a true Bannister like fashion?’ How can ‘abosorbing’/inherited 1 most likely 2 RT in their group that was never their personals and aren’t their personal’s in MV, be a bannister perfomance, again?

    Such deception is exactly why people have such disgust for the Team. They are promoted as they broke 3 RT with THEIR PERFORMANCE, is blantanly deceivng and dishonest, when they inherited these groups. “Their significance of brave actions to echo through eternity?” WOW, how dellusional and we will all ultimately answer for our actions.

    Orrin says: “Will we sit by idly, waiting for others to get the job done, or will we, like Hawkins, step up and claim our destiny.”

    How idly do you have to sit and wait for others to get the job done? I don’t know that would be a great question for your ‘mighty men and women’,LOL, whom appear to have been able to sit idly and collect on others work who got the job done.

    AMTHRAX~ here is a few more laws from book that you asked me about.

    Orrin, would this be the law you are using here? NO DOUBT you practice this one.This would also be very fitting to all the leaders you stole their teams, and money, after years of their personal efforts, not yours.

    Law 7

    Get others to do the Work for you, but Always Take the Credit

    Use the wisdom, knowledge, and legwork of other people to further your own cause. Not only will such assistance save you valuable time and energy, it will give you a godlike aura of efficiency and speed. In the end your helpers will be forgotten and you will be remembered. Never do yourself what others can do for you.

    Or perhaps #11. This would also be very much applied to who some were ‘chosen’? Seems logical to me that by giving some groups to a few would be pretty strategic and make others ‘obligated’ or ‘dependent’ on you because you have trapped them in to feeling like they own you, haven’t you.

    Law 11

    Learn to Keep People Dependent on You

    To maintain your independence you must always be needed and wanted. The more you are relied on, the more freedom you have. Make people depend on you for their happiness and prosperity and you have nothing to fear. Never teach them enough so that they can do without you.

    Law #40, you are not practicing this one with your ‘leaders’, or yourself, are you, Orrin? Or perhaps your leaders should recognize this law.

    Law 40

    Despise the Free Lunch

    What is offered for free is dangerous – it usually involves either a trick or a hidden obligation. What has worth is worth paying for. By paying your own way you stay clear of gratitude, guilt, and deceit. It is also often wise to pay the full price – there is no cutting corners with excellence. Be lavish with your money and keep it circulating, for generosity is a sign and a magnet for power.

  87. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 1:17 pm

    Lifer~ Are you back again, thought you were out of here? We will see if you come back with what you get for an answer, if not well, we will indeed know why you didn’t.

  88. I'm a Lifer permalink
    July 11, 2011 1:44 pm

    I am here..and yes, your list is correct as far as who I know…..

  89. switch permalink
    July 11, 2011 1:49 pm

    Don’t worry….. God is good.

  90. Steve permalink
    July 11, 2011 3:25 pm

    So please Jason, tell us whom we are wrong on. Again Jason, all of the posts on here are from IB0’s who have gone futher with Team, years, pin, and rank wise than the 99% of IBO’s who don’t or won’t make any money. These folks are speaking the truth about their experiences with Team. I would suggest that you look at the older posts before you start the name calling. Please stop with the team speak, in how “courageous” the Team is. Dangerous is more like it.

  91. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 5:16 pm

    Steve~ I agree with you, the cult-team speak, just gets annoying doesn’t it.

    Jason~You say: “The people that you listed who supposedly left TEAM and you’re incorrect on many, chose not to develop a leadership community.”

    SUPPOSEDLY? We are not about supposedly pal, those who added to the list KNOW for a FACT why they left and maybe you should find out the TRUTH before you come bashing with your cowardice name calling and cult- team speak rambling.

    You say: “Many chose to leave because they felt entitled to something that they didn’t earn.”

    I dare you to call anyone on that list, and you TELL THEM that is the reason they left. Start with Pastor Dickie and his family, then contact everyone on that list and we will see how courageous you and your arrogance and confidence is, bring back your ‘results’ while your at it and we will take anyone on that list off, that tells you they left because they ‘felt entitled to something they didn’t earn!’

  92. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 6:49 pm

    BTW~ Jason, we are still waiting for the results…..You have gotten over your fear of the phone, haven’t you? 🙂

    We aren’t into holding people’s names hostage, unlike our experience with the Team who controlled every minute of our time, money and even the mind.

    So ANYONE who wants their name removed, they just have to say the word, I am confident Amthrax will help out.

    As far as us ‘luring’ people, wrong again, people come here on their own free will, just like YOU DID. Let us know how you were ‘lured’ LOL.You are not being a very good student either Jason, MV has given you advice and you or others aren’t following it. Oh that’s right, you don’t follow MV, not loyal to them, but I bet if your upline said jump, you would ask how high.

    The ‘luring’ is ‘contacting’ thats what we did when we built the team along with using deceptive recruiting, persuasive, and thought stopping techniques. In other words we were taught to play on others emotions and manipulate others, answered questions, by turning it on others and asking them questions because then we were in control of the conversation, right, Jason? We learned very well and were very ‘good students’ until we found out the TRUTH and woke up out of the slumber and web of deceit and lies you continue to believe. Yep, from the same system and techniques you are using and many years longer than you. I am not aware of anyone contacting or any other technique to ‘lure’ anyone here. Lets us know how that works, LOL

    There are plenty of recommended books on here, read John’s post, (just recommend 2) and also check out the freedom of mind, Rick Ross, Lifton and Singer books, and Merchants of Deception, which is a free download right from here, image that a free book. Pretty sure you need this information. 🙂

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 7:42 pm

    Lifer~ Thanks for being honest and not taking anything blindly, sounds to me like you got your answer, now you know we have told the truth. 🙂

  94. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2011 8:05 pm

    Lifer~ We are here to tell the truth and honestly this has helped a lot in our betrayal and healing process and realizing what has happend.

    I salute you for having the guts to find out on your own. That is rare air for anyone to do, as a matter of fact, I don’t recall anyone ever doing that coming from your stand point, people usually just come spout the cult-team speak, bash to protect the false dream of becoming rich and leave.

    We are not trying to convince anyone of a bunch of BS, we want people to do what you did. We sincerely, want the truth to come out and know that people are being lied to and destroyed in many ways and many things are be covered up. So good luck, I hope you continue to seek out the truth.

  95. webelieved permalink
    July 11, 2011 9:45 pm

    Speak I ditto your comments! Lifer I do think you are the first teamer that actually found out the truth from the source directly, instead of just believing whatever perception your upline wanted you to think. I would be curious to know what Don said. I do believe he will tell the truth in a gentle way. I am glad more people are getting free, as painful as it is.

  96. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:16 am

    SYT – when I wrote “your list” I struictly meant it as “the list you published”. It was not an attempt to call you out.

    And if what John says is true about MA, and if Don Freeze is also out, then, wow! These are people that were truely “sold out” to the system and I’d like to know what specifically got them “unsold”.

  97. switch permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:27 am

    Wait a second,…..us tell the truth? It just can’t be…..

    As for Jason, I really don’t think that was a nice thing to say now was it? Cowards eh? Nice to know that the teamers have no problem dishing it out when it comes time for their own needs but when it comes time to taking it, well I guess we have a different story now don’t we?

  98. webelieved permalink
    July 12, 2011 7:18 am

    Jason- Wow do you sound indoctrinated for sure! Yep we all wanted a free ride we sat on the couch and ate bon bons, while we just wanted a paycheck! You sound like such a fool! Wow so that is what they are telling you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    THAT IS THE MOST HILARIOUS THING I HAVE HEARD! If you knew any of us you would know many did the work so some of the people you see on stage could sit on the couch and claim the paycheck now! YOU NEED TO GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! Or are you too chicken to know the truth? Maybe you would need to chose between the team liars and your money (assuming you’re making any), and your integrity? It is sad to me you cannot even think for yourself. Couragous? No more like cowards! Team Leaders are cowards! YOU ARE MAKING A NEGATIVE DIFFERENCE USING DECEPTION for money! God knows what your doing and so does Orrin, he teaches you to decieve. You my friend should be ashamed of yourself ! Volume loading, or STRETCH AND SECURE? How about the lie you are trying to spread above, how about deceptive recruiting, how bout Orrin not giving us contracts and PC stealing our teams and money? How bout it seems Team has seperate pay plans? Did I hear they were paying profit sharers more than Round Table members, you have listened to on cd? YOU HAVE NO ANSWER OR EXCUSE FOR THAT! DId you really think we would come on here and lie? Maybe hide our identity….. but not lie about the facts that happened and are happening. We have great sources and we have integrity! But they will lie about us, because they have to to keep their money. How would their loyal teams feel, knowing they haven’t been told the truth, by these so called leaders on stage?

  99. No Team For Me permalink
    July 12, 2011 7:21 am

    Matt Abraham no longer with Team? Do we know this for sure? That would be very interesting. I know Orrin referred A LOT of attorney business to him during the 6 month inactivity period with people filing LLC’s in Wyoming.

    For him to leave after all the business Orrin sent him, he must have really had a problem with Team.

  100. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2011 12:25 pm

    Weblieved~ Kaboom :0! Couldn’t have said that better! Where’s are paychecks? I have the bon bon’s waiting LOL. I never read anywhere when we signed up where it said we would work like slaves for free, did you? Perhaps that was the small print? The fool is trying to be insulting. He must have a big indent in his coach and obviously has lost his critical thinking. How do we know? We heard those same words from the same mis- leaders , used them ourselves (unfortunately) when we were there, LHOL! Do they seriously think we don’t have that play book memorized or know they are repeating exactly what they hear? Should go read the post of Team Speak, maybe they would get a clue, LOL.

    No Team For Me ~ I know what I know. Some need to find out for themselves, like ‘lifer’ did. I believe that is the best way if people are truly sincere about wanting to know the truth. I do remember what you are talking about also with the LLC’s. It is simple, the real problem we have all had, in one form or another; is we are dealing with people who do not practice what they preach, lie, deceive, cheat, steal, and cover-up to serve their agenda, and a business that does not work for over 99%, they do not deliver on their promises and we all have one common denominator; Orrin & PC, who have proven to most of us, who they really are. It should be obvious but when there is deception, secrets, corruption, mind control, and Greed, it should be obvious what lengths people will go to protect the MONEY, it is that simple. There are plenty who are blinded and remain in denial.

    Rob~ It’s all good. They were sold out along with all the rest and many more thousands that aren’t on the list, just some at different degrees. We always had the belief when with those on our team, it didn’t matter ‘how sold out you were’, even if you just signed the contract, you still deserved the same amount of respect and were just as important to us than those who were ‘sold out’ and if one is screwed over (although thousands were) on our team then we all were, and that my friend is why we quit.

    Switch~ Once again, another lol, experience, with your humor. You remind me of Mackwiz, don’t see many comments from him/her, but makes me crack up. Oh and the dishing it out, hmm…..the truth is too hot. They must not have been taught if you ‘if you can’t take it, don’t dish it out’ or as Amthrax says: turnabout is fair play.

  101. webelieved permalink
    July 12, 2011 1:37 pm

    Interesting Customer review about Consumed by Success on Amazon- Thanks John for the reccomendation! It will be my book of the month! 🙂 🙂
    “Athena Dean has been to the top of the Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) ladder. She and her husband were making well over $20,000 a month. They thought they had success, but then God stepped in. He showed them how they had become consumed by the world’s view of success and the pursuit of wealth. They had sold out everything–church, friends, family and their ministry to Vietnam Veterans in order to worship the almighty dollar. In this book, Athena not only shares her personal story (both highs and lows) but gives scripture references why as Christians we need to avoid falling into the Satan’s trap of multi-level marketing. If you are a Christian and are involved in a MLM or are thinking about getting involved in one and want to hear an opinion from a Godly woman who has been there and back, then this book is a must read. “For what does it profit a man if he should gain the whole world and lose his own soul.”
    Hmmm…….can’t wait to read it! It sounds like it will help a few of my trapped “friends” who are so brainwashed they believe they are doing God’s work by building the Team mlm/pyramid. If only…. they would read it. 😦

  102. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2011 1:47 pm

    Rock on! Thanks I also can’t wait to read them both. And just a thank you to ‘ME’/ commentor where ever she/he maybe, Thanks also to you for recommending the book People of the Lie. 🙂

  103. webelieved permalink
    July 12, 2011 1:47 pm

    I wanted to clarify I messed up in my post at the top. It used to be 50, 50 and 25 downline on system, in 3 teams for Round Table.

  104. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2011 5:50 pm

    You are forgiven, I didn’t even catch it, LOL Book is sounding interesting, can’t wait to read it maybe a teamer basher, will come here and push it though the controlled chain of command on up to the master controller to get these books approved. 🙂 🙂 Think it would fit into at least one of the F’s. Thx John.

  105. Chuckles permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:01 pm

    Jason,

    Obviously you learn well. Your attitude and descriptions you use toward us are very familiar to me. I will address that after a littlle background.

    You see, my upline and I were very tight. We were road warriors together. We strategized and socialized together. I was the leader in his second largest leg. We were on system and bought extra tickets to move downline. We reached Turbo 50 before the break and were headed toward building a third leg. Then the “War” begun. It was going to be “open and shut” according to my “friend”.

    I was told within weeks we would have the ‘Walmart of the Internet’ up and running. I was even told we had a “major” oil company on board. We would be able to get gasoline cheaper than the general public. Energy drinks, toothpaste and anything else we could get at the store would be our with a click of a mouse and we would GET PAID for doing so and bringing others in.

    Then we got Mona Vie. But, that was ok because it was just a stopping off point to gather our troops and organize our downline. My friend said, “in the front door and out the back.” Then the shopping portal would be there.

    In the meantime others close to him were leaving for various reasons (including Orrin’s shenanigans). He would sit with me for more than one evening telling me what losers and cowards they were for not believing and staying true to the “vision”. He would say they were not strong and did not have what it took to be successful. Of course, as a faithful minion, I shook my head and agreed with what was being said.

    As time went by I witnessed dwindling attendance and more people dropping off. After about 2 yrs of that I said enough. If this is meant to be a business I should be able to make a profit. I was bringing people in and systematizing them, but the money was still less than what I was spending.

    When I called my friend (upline) about another business opportunity that was closer to what we were promised, he went ballistic. Accused me of being a traitor to the cause. I was told I lost my courage, many other hurtful things transpired, and I thought, “could this really be happening?” I was devastated. My wife cried over the lost friendships we had with others on TEAM. How foolish we were to think we could do something different and remain friends with these people. This man claimed to be a “Christian” it was just unbelievable how we were treated by him.

    You know though, even after all that, we were so engrained in the “system”, we contemplated going back.

    Then we talked with others who had left and were treated similarly. We realized we were not alone, there were others like us that were disillusioned. Some had big teams that were cranking, they spoke from stage and were edified by others including Orrin. Heck it took me 5 full months to break away from system. I had to do a little at a time, first tickets then one cd at a time.

    You see Jason, you really are one of us. You want to leave, you are just afraid. I know this because when others left our group, as I mentioned, we talked of how they were loser and cowards, much like what you are saying about us.

    I understand, I was afraid also. But, it will be alright, when you do some research, you will find that you are being deceived just like the rest of us, and rest assured, you will find friends here.

    I apologize to all for being so wordy, but, this was on my mind.

  106. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:21 pm

    CHUCKLES~ AMAZING POST!

  107. TOD permalink
    July 12, 2011 6:56 pm

    We all heard the same crap, believed it and decided to leave when we saw that we were duped. Yet, we are the cowards, quitters and liars! Incredible.

    Also, if MV was the winner of the “bench marking” study, then why is there a need for the new F.A.I.L. business?

  108. Chuckles permalink
    July 12, 2011 7:31 pm

    Thanks SYT. What was mentioned is just the tip of the iceberg.

    TOD—- Great thoought. “The Benchmarking study.” I had forgotten about that. I like the “F.A.I.L.” thing. You are definitely doomed to FAIL using Orrins system.

    I actually found that I can get the same exact info from Jim Rohn and John Maxwell for FREE online right to my email once a week.

    We should have known this though, many times Brady would say from stage, “We ain’t that smart! Most of what you’ll hear tonight we stole from others.” We all laughed thinking he was a funny guy. He laughed all the way to the bank.

  109. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2011 8:08 pm

    Chuckles~ Your story has touched my heart and you shared it with such great compassion, thanks for sharing that. I vote it for the best of the week! I believe you it was just the tip of the iceberg but don’t hold back your story and others needs to be told. When I get more time I will comment on it more. Thanks for having the courage. 🙂

    TOD~ LHOL Excellent Point.

  110. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 13, 2011 5:01 am

    And yet another victim emerges from the cobwebs. Welcome home Chuckles. Keep it coming, it helps more than just you.

  111. webelieved permalink
    July 13, 2011 6:38 am

    Chuckles- Thanks for the post! I agree with Quit- It helps everyone to hear what happened to people. It helps to hear we weren’t the only ones to see terrible betrayals by so called Christian team leaders! I can relate to your wife on the relationships. It was devastating to see how few if any of the people I loved, were really true friends. It wasn’t many. None of them ever even called to find out why I disappeared, they just believed whatever b.s. lie they were told by upline PC and their yes men! I was very ill, so to have all these so called friends of years slandering me, or pretending I never existed, really wounded me. It was devastating to me! The way they act on stage is nothing like who they really are behind the scenes! Anything to keep the image and reputation!
    P.S. they still pretend I don’t exist.They lie about who their sponsor is, who showed them the plan….etc. The poor new guy has no clue how many got screwed over and TEAM wants it that way!
    NOTE: Many of bloggers’ stories are under Ex-Team Comments if you want to read.

  112. switch permalink
    July 13, 2011 7:42 am

    Unbelievable, Chuckles. And yes, welcome.

    The whole name calling is assinine.

    “cowards”

    “quitters”

    “traitors”

    “idiots” (…”You must be some kind of idiot if you don’t see that only for $150 a month, you can start up your own business!”)

    “losers”

    ….and last but not least….”they’re the bottom feeders, or parasites” of the business or what about the greatest cover up of all time which was being called a “competitor”?

    I have to say, that was one hell of a day in team history that I’ll never forget. But hey, this isn’t about the cash….this about making a difference, right? 🙂

    I think the last time I saw someone swinging this hard, but not quite this hard was when Tyson had a couple of low blows thrown at him inside the ring.

  113. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 13, 2011 10:43 am

    Hey everyone! Only 16 more days to LIFE! I can’t wait to hear what the Hawkins have in store for us!

  114. Steve permalink
    July 13, 2011 1:02 pm

    Chuckles;

    Great post. I am sorry to see yet another Team member treated in such fashion. Unfortunatley as you will begin to see, you and countless others have been treated the same way once the “team colored glasses” began to break. We are all glad that you are here, and encourage you to speak out about the descretions you have witnessed. You are not alone.

  115. Rob Thomas permalink
    July 18, 2011 8:45 am

    Here’s a question I haven’t seen asked or discussed, but is this how Tim Marks went diamond so fast in Amway/Quixtar – did he “inherit” his teams or was that all organic growth?

  116. Steve permalink
    July 18, 2011 1:03 pm

    Rob;

    Since I was in his downline, we were told that he built it, and I do believe that Tim and Amy did. How they did it though is up for much debate. I am sure you have read other posts about buying products to reach a certain pin level. This was called a catchy phrase, “stretch and secure”, which was taught in his downline. What this meant was to purchase products for 6 consecutive months (stretch) to qualify for a pin level, until you could build your business to secure that business with new IBO’s PV. How do I know this? It was taught to us, and we got ourselves into a mess financially. It never went any farther than us, as I swore I would not do that to my downline. So in a nut shell if he was teaching to purchase products to make a pin level, than I believe that he did it as well. Just sayin…..

  117. webelieved permalink
    July 20, 2011 10:49 am

    Steve- Stretch and Secure…. the same name they are using in MV. Did you read the Volume loading article on Amthrax site? Pretty interesting. I also heard Chris Brady? did a video on the Team site that taught this practice, of ordering thousands of points through others numbers to hit pin levels? Did anyone see it? Isn’t that against MV policies?

  118. webelieved permalink
    July 20, 2011 11:06 am

    Reposted-

    “Here is a comment under the featured post here, from Amthrax this post that I found on LM. I thought it was very appropriate for this thread. Greatest American Of the Day ? You decided. I appreciate Samantha having the guts to share.

    Samantha says:
    July 20, 2011 at 8:23 am
    Speak Your Truth — speaks the truth! I once considered Orrin and Laurie Woodward my BEST friends. I spent YEARS following them, believing that they were wonderful people helping to improve people’s lives through self-improvement, positive association, etc. I was heart-broken to find out the whole thing is a lie.

    Let me assure you, Orrin Woodward is a class A liar. Period. He has lied about EVERYTHING. He lies about Team profit-sharing; he manipulates the numbers every week so that his “favorites” make more than others. He lies about people; he really dislikes people and says horrible things about them behind their backs. Yes, he has even said nasty stuff about Chris Brady! He is NOT a leader, he is a manipulator. He believes that his financial success proves he is a fantastic business man. He once said that he was better than Jack Welch and John Maxwell–you know, “Jack Welch and John Maxwell have not accomplished what I have accomplished.” That is correct; Jack Welch and John Maxwell have not manipulated tens of thousands of people for their own financial gain.

    Recognition at Major seminars is rigged. Dan and Lisa Hawkins were GIVEN other people’s teams so that they could achieve Diamond and Policy Council. Simply so Orrin could point to someone and say, see it IS working.

    [Editor’s Note: Removed at the request of Samantha]

    Do you want more?”

  119. webelieved permalink
    July 20, 2011 11:17 am

    Apparently what we have said all along is the truth. Screwed his own leaders just like I thought. One more confirmation on the Hawkins and the last paragraph, well all I can say is once again Team leaders think they are above the law. I am speechless!
    Protecting a self-admitted child molester! The poor girl, I want to take her far away from these sick bastards, minor incident?!!! SHAME ON THEM ALL!!!! In my opinion, they ALL need to go to jail!

  120. No Team For Me permalink
    July 20, 2011 7:10 pm

    Where is this huge growth Orrin talks about? Maybe I’m missing something. But TEAM used to have between 70-90 locations every week for the weekly Open Meetings and 40-60 locations for the monthly seminars.

    I heard next week, they only have Open Meetings in 20 locations and in August only have 14 locations for Monthly seminars listed.

    I’ve also heard number of people at these remaining locations are way down compared to a couple years ago. One report has a location that used to get as many as 700+ for the monthly seminars is down to around 200-250 at their seminars.

    Anyone have any more accurate info on current locations and their numbers?

  121. Dorothy permalink
    July 20, 2011 8:39 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  122. Huperdeium permalink
    July 21, 2011 5:32 am

    That makes sense why it appears that each open location is only having an open every other week now (except for one or two). But where will people go to see the broadcasts?

  123. humiliated permalink
    July 21, 2011 7:27 am

    I have said it before, and I will say it again, Orrin is a classic sociopath and he needs to be locked up in jail or some mental institution somewhere. The only reason that he has any “friends” is because they are the conduits for his sociopathic behavior. He NEEDS people to like him and be loyal to him so that they can do his dirty work. Period. Full stop.

    Samantha has simply proven what I have felt all along and it sickens me (I literally gasped when I read Samantha’s post) to hear how he “defends” a child molestor (again, not because the sick pervert is a “friend” but because he contributes to Orrin’s bottom line).

    Part of me would love to find out who the perv is and expose him and his twisted relationship with Orrin to the world, but the bigger part of me wants to protect the victim.

  124. bogart permalink
    July 24, 2011 7:26 am

    In the Hawkins road to PC they took over the Billy Florence team as well as Mark and Raquel Peters. Did Orrin give them any other teams to buy there PC seat?

  125. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 24, 2011 7:54 am

    bogart~
    According to a commenter ‘Matt’ they also received a RT from Randy Haugen.

    Humiliated~ I agree Orrin needs to be locked up, he is a very sick individual who acts like he is the law.

  126. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 24, 2011 8:18 am

    Dorothy~

    Yep, you nailed it; ‘have to get around the mis-leaders?
    The business is built around false edification,(credibilty) idolitry, and hype, none of them have an ounce of credibilty and the more that comes out the more this gets confirmed.
    They will have to ‘answer’ for what they have done, eventually.
    It just proves to the ‘outside’ world that their so called ‘leadership’ grooming is far from respectable and does not produce ‘leaders.’

    Re-broadcast, hmm…. doesn’t sound too good for them.

    What happen to ‘goin to a million?’ Perhaps they been singing 99 beers on the wall for too long and they ‘reset thegoal’ and it is lets see how many we can get to quit? bahahahaha!! 🙂
    They are a sinking ship by their own dirty corrupt dealings. They can’t blame anyone but themselves, period. Besides, leaders don’t blame they take responsiblity, which is more proof they AREN”T leaders.

    I can only image what is left to be unturned in their corruption but I am learning more and more how sick and twisted they are. They puff their chest out, stand on stage and ‘claim; they are the ‘best leadership’ developement company in ALL the world, what a flat out lie.

    For the life of me I cannot figure out how they think they will continue to get away with what they have and are doing? Humiliated is dead on with the classic sociopath.

  127. webelieved permalink
    July 26, 2011 7:52 am

    Speak-“They are a sinking ship by their own dirty corrupt dealings. They can’t blame anyone but themselves, period. Besides, leaders don’t blame they take responsiblity, which is more proof they AREN”T leaders”
    Great comment speak.
    Maybe Orrin and his henchmen need to go back and read his faked “bestseller” again! LOLBahhhaaahahaha!

  128. webelieved permalink
    July 26, 2011 7:53 am

    Why is it they never follow his own advice?

  129. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 26, 2011 11:42 am

    Webelieved~

    You are RIGHT they NEVER follow their own advice, because they are CORRUPT and would have to give up their precious idol “power & money” if they really followed their own advice. I have never seen such EGO-(edging GOD out) driven naracissitic cons in a concentrated group, in my life! What a waste and damage to humanity.

  130. riDICKulous permalink
    September 13, 2011 7:03 am

    You guys are ABSOLUTELY ridiculous. Seriously KIDS, can you just grow up? Who cares if you were part of TEAM and quit, okay! to each their own then!! JESUS!

  131. webelieved permalink
    September 13, 2011 12:01 pm

    We didn’t quit and we really don’t appreciate your name. Seems like you need to grow up! Read the whole blog and then call us ridiculous, I am sure it will be hard for you as you are under thought reform. Sorry you don’t like the truth of our experiences. Hope you can gain your critical thinking skills back, before it is too late. I feel sorry for you.

  132. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 13, 2011 12:57 pm

    Judging by their riDICKulous comments, the name seems very fitting….

  133. Quit # 2 permalink
    September 13, 2011 8:14 pm

    riDICKulous- I encourage you to read the blogs on this site especially the recent post that Amthrax just posted about Guzzardo’s foreclosing on a property in Arizona. If you read our stories, you too can be saved!

  134. No Team For Me permalink
    September 13, 2011 9:39 pm

    Ridickulous – We didn’t quit. We invested everything we had physically, financially and emotionally only to realize we had been lied to, had our groups stolen and businesses ripped apart after we had already quit our jobs and were dependent on the income and promises which were reniged upon.

    These are not stories of people who registered, called 3 people and quit. Collectively, we had thousands and thousands in our groups only to find out we have been lied to all along.

    Ask your upline to see the financials and income dislosure forms of where all the tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars of TEAM income went during these past 12 years. Ask them who paid for the legal fees from the Amway/Quixtar lawsuit. Ask them if there is a single person who was not a part of TEAM prior to MonaVie who hit the Diamond level in MonaVie – not a single person!!!! With over 25,000 people in Kentucky and 3 1/2 years of power players, thousands of Open Meetings and Seminars, tens of millions of dollars spent on tools and not a single person hit Diamond who was not a part of TEAM prior to MonaVie.

    Then ask then if you’ve ever heard the statement – ‘specific measureable results or something must change”. Sounds to me the TEAM tools must not be real productive.

  135. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 12:44 pm

    “LIFE is a plan to do something, to restore the West to its former ideals.”.(Orrin and L Woodward, 6/29/2011, as written at the top of this thread page)

    Another quote from same source:

    “In addition, it is with great honor and pleasure to introduce Dan and Lisa Hawkins as new PC members. Dan, a talented mechanic with no stage to display his immense talents, and Lisa, a day-care business owner with the inner-courage to succeed, have accomplished the prestigious PC level. Through character, dreams, hard-work, and convictions, they, along with their upline PC’s Guzzardo’s, have forged a new dynasty in Wisconsin. ”

    Fast forward now to 8/10/2012, after Hawkins gets one of his newest members, indoctrinated, and then prematurely sends that member out to solicit—to solicit the new member’s own mother/family/friends, etc.

    Prelim: Member first has his mother babysit longer one night when he already hasn’t seen his kids all day , and with her already putting in 8 hours after a round of 14 surgeries over the past few years, putting everybody out, who had things to do and a wife tired from her own job…….., to attend yet another mysterious meeting.

    Member now comes in for the “kill”, but seems ignorant enough to change the story from: a book is $50, to that it’s basically more than that and he’s saved his mommy “a seat” at something. Mommy was getting suspicious as to what was going on.

    The final result: Mommy is now nothing more than

    1) non-visionary
    2) confrontational because she found AMTHRAX first and recounted some stories
    3) how could she be so stupid as to believe anything off of “a few blogs”
    4) just had a middle-class education and was taught all of the wrong things
    5) may never be ready, he fears (condescendingly), to take the plunge to be all she can be (never mind she is disabled, and in her 60’s and retired).
    6) never supports her son (should read: in get rich quick schemes)
    7) is failing to realize TEAM/LIFE is, um, saving his marriage
    8) has thrown at her: you agree to read my stuff but you want ME to pay for it?!!!
    9) a member of the disgusting status quo that tried to work a real job, when in reality she was a sheep lead to slaughter, a slave to the system (but never mind that in the past year, those from our doorstep graced them with over 10k)
    10) claimed the buzzard hawks of the universe gave him the answers to the universe
    11) wrote his mother off with a vicious “BYE…BYE” (meaning bye bye you stupid bitch, I know more than you do) when she declared she was cutting him off until he sought adequate help to regain his emotional stability and senses.

    Today, a few days older but a lot wiser: I hereby make a promise to the WOODY-GIZZARD HAWKS of the world: if my grandchildren suffer ANY consequences from your acid-brain-wash destruction of the family, now or in the future, I will spend every hard-earned penny available for the rest of my life, pursuing you legally, with every possible avenue in the State of Wisconsin…year after year after year….like a camel, I will never forget what pain you have created here and how I/we have been hurt…and I will find a way to entangle you and legally crush your sick, sad, sorry asses here in the State of Wisconsin, by any legal means at my disposal. There are more than a few out there whom I suspect would be willing to testify.

    There must be some how, some way, to get you heartless greedy GIZZARD HAWKS to lose everything, too.

    Yeah, baby….you sure are creating an empire…..be prepared for the “fall of” it, at the first opportunity, legally, that is. (This is NOT a threat of bodily or property harm. It is a promise to get legal justice for you.)

    Keep your friends close, and your lawyers even closer.

  136. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2012 3:47 pm

    Mother~

    Laughter and excitement is the only 2 emotions I can feel after reading your post. Please don’t take it as unempathetic because the pain and anger you feel we all feel and feel for YOU! If there is ANY way we can help, you can count on us or me personally! 🙂 Hang in there, and know you aren’t alone!

  137. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 4:43 pm

    Speak: I getcha….hey, it kind of reads like a Last Will & Testament, doesn’t it? (Have to have some levity in and amongst the threads of pain)

  138. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 4:55 pm

    Oops!! Point number 12 for the Last Will and Testament: I got called NUTS when I reminded him of what I did with the first check I ever earned in my profession, with him claiming that my statement had nothing to do with anything he was concerned about in LIFE, i.e., it’s a moot point because it was just a slave mentality job, I guess.

    It really could have probably a good 10 more points, but it was all so painful, especially with a grown man nearing middle age, screaming like a banshee into a special headset worn by his mother because she is all but the last 1/4 of hearing in one ear, totally deaf.

    Like I said, WOODY GIZZARD-HAWKS: beware if my grandbabies are the recipients of your member’s eventual, almost-guaranteed fallout (I KNOW him; you ignorant, laughable dopes only see one more membership and the chance to rob him of his meager funds).

    I will be that annoying fly in the legal ointment of your hoggish, user/abuser, American Greed lives. You’ll be glad by that point to get back to baby daycare and wrenching for a living—but just remember: a potential employer may run your names on the internet before hiring you. Hmmmm….maybe you’ll end up broke and desperate, too.

  139. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2012 5:32 pm

    Mama or would you perfer G-ma~

    You are making me lol…I love your spunk and also know the love you have for your son/grandchildren… they are very blessed to have you in their corner; he just doesn’t recognize it YET. 🙂

  140. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:25 pm

    @Speak,l: OIY!! I did NOT realize Hawkins was so young! He’s a whipper-snapper auto mechanic. No WONDER my son is now a sold groupie, too. I went to Utube to watch the Hawkins video…..and I almost choked at the one support post I read. Hawkins lives in Milton, WI….yup, that’s why grandma had to babysit late in August! Now I’m going to find out how they launder the few bucks peopel like my son earns…..I think I’ll go post my Last Will & Testament on the Utube video page—

    To see Dan and Lisa speak…all I can say is: my son has already entered the gates of Hawkins’ BS hell…there is no return now…I know him well enough to see it.

  141. freedomhaha permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:32 pm

    Mother- Obviously you know your son very well, but don’t lose hope. I was at the deepest involvement in TEAM when I read one story on this blog and immediately snapped out of it. The same thing could happen to your son. People wake up and leave the business behind for greener pastures every single day. It is my sincere hope that your son will do that in the near future.

    I love the passion in which you attack those leaders. It is with your spirit that real change can happen to shut these clowns down before they ruin other families.

  142. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:50 pm

    typo (I can’t help myself) peopel – people

    Speak, you have no idea how devastating it was to see those two young people on that video who actually seem so sweet but have no compunction about being in something that’s just inside of the law, i.e., bootleggers of dreams that must, by math alone, crumble on their downliners, and, who rose to the top through favoritism, etc.,

    and who were/are now spewing their brainwashing on my son, and who was at their home while I took extended-hour duty to care for one of HIS children–their father had not seen them all day long and now at night, too. (I don’t care if it only happens once, but the moment I realized what was going on, I knew that it would become regular duty, and Mommy Dearest put her foot down–she will NOT assist in this endeavor)

    I am so damnably angry, at the utter blind stupidity of my son and the dichotomy in behavior/demeanor of the Hawkins couple—but I can see more every day how it happened that it was so VERY easy to sell this to my kid.

    Sheeeee-it!!!!…..Hawkins and my kid are two peas in a pod, lock, stock and barrel—overall charm, pleasant good looks, close in age, you name it! (except for emotional maturity, perhaps, we’re talkin’ BROs’ here!)

    You know as well as I do that right now, no amount of reasoning is going to help change his mind. This is all so absolutely devastating. Time to get into the anti-cult materials to try to find some sanity, I guess.

  143. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 6:55 pm

    @Speak: forgot to answer your question: I’m so danged ornery at the moment, I don’t care if you call me Ma Barker….just don’t call me late for a rant blog—:)))))

  144. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 7:22 pm

    @Freedom: thanks for your support. Think I’m worried about “Jr” here, because in just the past number of years, there’ve been thousands lost to other schemes, you know, like $4000 for some CDs to learn some scheme secrets to the stock market, etc, but NOW there are two small children involved and an over-burdened wife.

    Yes, it’s his life and I have no right to interfere from this point on (now that he’s told me off and I’ve told him to seek professional help to recover)….so I sit here “on guard” in the weeds, learning all I can, venting and searching, all in training for when I see the FIRST sign/effect on my grandchildren.

    Then, no one in this lil’ ol’ Wisconsin city, and all the way SW to the Hawkins house in Milton is going to recognize what I turn into–I’ll make sure I stay just inside the law, JUST like they do selling almost-worthless goods and INTERFERRING BY TRYING TO HOODWINK GULLIBLE, POSSIBLY-DISTURBED RECRUITS WITH PROPAGANDA ON HOW TO DEAL WITH CHILDREN, WIFE, PARENTS, ETC.

    I WILL, BY GOLLY, FIND A WAY TO SUE THEM. I WILL FIND SOMETHING, SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE IN THE LAW TO DO THIS IF I SEE ONE HINT OF MY GRANDCHILDREN BEING HURT..

    We have struggled so very hard to make sure we’re all on the same page in this family–to rebuild previously problematic obstacles; the kids/grandkids are the center of our lives where possible……and now THIS? THIS ABSOLUTELY OBSCENE SCHEME TO BRAIN-CLEANSE DESPERATE PEOPLE TO SELL ALMOST WORTHLESS “PRODUCT”?

    WHERE IN THE SAM HELL IS THE LAW ON THIS ISSUE!!?????

    Hey, Mr. Dan Hawkins the auto mechanic: I was wrenching on ’60’s Mopars and Mustangs long before you came into this world…if it’s the last thing I ever do….I’m gonna swap out your “Cherry Bombs” and stuff LEGAL papers in your “pipeline” so it all blows up and slows the engine of your obscene destruction of others’ lives. Make sure your wife keeps that daycare certification. You’re going to need it when you end up where my son is headed for.

    And, by the way: were you the little twerp asswipe that suggested I had a lower middle class education as a Jesuit Scholar and Nursing Scholar, featured in a National Magazine as a scholar AND received accolades on a Minneapolis stage from the Deputy Surgeon General of the United States of America????.(to name just a few of the awards)

    I am almost 62 years old, and for the first time in my life, I am going to publicly say this to you DAN AND L HAWKINS:

    F*#K YOU, LITTLE BOY AND WIFEY….

    I GOT MY OL’ LADY BIG GIRL PANTS ON….SEE YOU IN COURT SOME DAY IF YOUR ACTIONS/TEACHINGS CAN BE LINKED TO ANYTHING ADVERSE IN MY GRANDCHILDREN.

    Oops, Freedom…I was talking to you and got side-tracked…..it’s not nice to get Mother Nature side-tracked….:)

  145. webelieved permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:34 pm

    Lol! Holy cow ! Your on fire!

    I heard the Hawkins bought a different home outside of Whitewater . I would bet Woodward or Guzzardo financed them. The really sad thing about the Hawkins, whole telling others to not read this blog, they r
    ead it and know what happened to their sponsors the Peters and just keep promoting the crooks who blackballed them, gizzard and woodworm. They just keep bringing them in. They went into Life with different sponsors which is against Monavies policies, and effectively took the Peters whole team. They also have sponsored people that were not their own into Life. They obviously do not practice what they spew out of their mouths and by their actions money is more important then integrity. So sad it seems they used to be deccent people. I guess money can buy almost anything. 😦

  146. webelieved permalink
    August 17, 2012 9:35 pm

    Of course my comments ar my opinions based on what I have seen. 🙂

  147. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:11 pm

    webelieved: okay, Whitewater’s good, too….he can still look to the Northeast and see me breathing flames. Yeah, you said it….he seems like he’s a pretty nice, mild guy from the video—but then my kid seems, so much like him, does, too. I know from experience, it can be smoke and mirrors. Shucks, I should have saved my Hawkins message from my response to you over on the other board to put on here. I meant every word of it.

    Dear Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins: go over to the board that explains the differences between the Woodchip Brady Bunch Gizzard schemes. I have a message for you there. that’s timed right before this one.

    Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins: It spells out what’s going to happen if/when/matter of time my grandkids and the latest sucker you pulled into your scheme are hurt by your uneducated, stupendous greed for more money.

    Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins: when YOU start putting the formula and diaper money meant for MY grandchildren into YOUR pocket….and when YOU condone the nasty crap that was spewed in my face as a mother who’s tried to appropriately love her only child for going on 39 years….my “friend”, you’ve no idea what you are into.

    Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins: when the time comes—because there’s MORE than a 99% chance in OUR situation of which you know nothing: you are going to WISH, from behind bars, that you could pick up a monkey wrench one more time and arrange your tools in your Snap On tool chest.

    Mrs. and Mrs. Hawkins: let me leave you with these “best wishes”. If you have children of your own (I hope you do or else there’s a problem here with you playing with Tonka trucks, right?) I SINCERELY HOPE THE COUNTY OR STATE COMES IN AND TAKES THEM FROM YOU. This, of course, will likely happen in the near future anyway, because of what’s coming to my family, courtesy of uninformed, non-qualified “teachers” and money-grubbers like you two —it will mean you LOSE your kids, even if for only a time. I, for one, will make this one of my new passions: for you to lose your children as I have just experienced.

    Signed: A 30 year RN, former RNC, CCRN, former University Instructor; former Cardiac/Critical Care Trauma RN who earned her Flight For Life Wings; former graduate student with a focus on psychology/family sociology/psychological testing techniques and critical care and anesthesia, etc.

    Yeah, you little TWITHAWKS…you think I might be more qualified here to “teach” on family/sociological matters than an auto mechanic and a daycare babysitter?

  148. MustHaveBeenTerribleMother permalink
    August 17, 2012 10:35 pm

    PS: to Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins: Do you actually think that in the end I’m going to let the uninformed, duped pair of you and your egomaniacal “leaders” get away with destroying my only child, which of necessity includes fallout on his family which means my only grandchildren are going to suffer, too, one way or another? Hint to get you to an answer: I was an orphan. He was the only child out of 5 to survive. The others died. There are many ways ilk like you can “kill” him. I will search this entire country to find a way to bring you to LEGAL justice when this happens, because there’s more than a 96% chance, in his case, that this WILL happen. Be ready. And be afraid. .

Trackbacks

  1. Featured Comment of the Week « AMTHRAX
  2. LIFE Pre-Launch Hyperbole « AMTHRAX
  3. Attack of the Leadership Blog Clones « AMTHRAX

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: