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Feature Comment from the Web: Greatest American of this Day

July 17, 2011

I don’t know if this is a joke or not, but it sure seems like a legitimate comment about the Supreme TEAM Leader, Orrin Woodward. I found this comment on Lazy Man’s website in his post Orrin Woodward, Scams, MonaVie, Team, and Lies… Oh My!. Bold emphasis below is mine:

Darren Bravenec says:
July 14, 2011 at 7:55 am

I can’t believe that people believe what others put on websites such as this. before anyone goes out and bashes the greatest American of this day why don’t you go to a TEAM seminar or Major convention and meet the man for yourself. I guarantee you that if you go and don’t fall in love with the TEAM and want to follow Mr. Woodward then anyone in that building, will gladly give you your money back for the ticket.

I have been a part of TEAM and MonaVie for over a year now and have definitely invested more money into it than I have made but had I not joined the TEAM I never would have got the education that I have now. I have a Mentor who very seldom mentors me about my TEAM business but mentors my wife and I in our marriage and with our finances. He has definitely invested way more time and money into my wife and then they have made of of us.

I would not be married right now, have a strong relationship with my savior Jesus Christ, or have pruchased my first home with out the education that I have from the TEAM.

July 29th-31st in Columbus Ohio we are having a major leadership convention and I will guarantee that if you buy the $125 ticket and stay for the entire function and don’t get something out of it and don’t change your mind about Orrin and the Team then I will refund your money for the ticket.

I make $30k a year but I am that confident in the TEAM that you will feel God’s presence in that building and you will want to be apart of what the TEAM has to offer and the 8F’s of life that we focus on.

Here is a response on Lazy Man’s site from frequent commenter Speak Your Truth:

Darren,
I cannot help but feel sorry for you and honestly have laughed through your entire post.:)

First don’t take this wrong you are very naive and just know what I say, I say from a humble standpoint to you. I do know how you feel, we felt the same way, and this is what we found.

We have been to more than 156 of those seminars, and at least 52 major, so I we have surpassed the ‘2’ you are expecting. This is not counting any turbo, RT, or any other special ‘leadership’ meetings, and also not counting the months where we went to more than 1 seminar. We have spoken on many Team stages in many different states.
We have known Orrin for almost 2 decades. Have been to their houses numerous times and have been up close and very personal with them for years; had a direct ‘line’ to them. Listened to THOUSANDs (plural) Cd.s, read hundreds of books, from the system and have had multiples of thousands in our group and you could take that number times 10 and that is how many have quit in our group. It is build and replace. We have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars building those teams to a have it all stolen by Orrin and PC. Do we qualify?

You are ‘aclueistic’ (clueless) who Orrin really is.

This is what WE found;

Orrin is a lot of things but he is not the greatest American guy of this day, not according to what we and thousands of others believe and experienced. You can believe what you choose, but I will warn you now that is a very dangerous assumption, and conclusion to draw.

Orrin and others, have bold-faced lied to us, stolen our profit-sharing based on lies and slander, cheated and destructed our groups, and for the sake of this post becoming extremely long, I won’t go into it all; they have done many, many, other unethical, illegal, and immoral things.

Go to Amthrax’s blog to get the rest. Check out the leaders that have dumped Orrin/TEAM, some, I spoke to and know personally they feel the opposite of you and not a one of those we know, think Orrin is the greatest American guy. Quite the contrary.

You obviously haven’t visited Pastor Dickies church or you would know better than to say what you have said. Why don’t you tell your ‘mentor’ you would like to make that your church home? :):)

Also, you aren’t telling anyone anything new, we know the TEAM goes into churches and some even switched churches when they get saturated, so that they can have more recruits, just like they ‘contact’ in any venue, church or otherwise.

Does this sound even remotely like the right reason to attend church or that they are building the Church body for God or their business?

Do you live on an island that has no churches or do you not own a free phone book?

Here’s my point, you say you did not have a church to go until your ‘upline’ invited you to go to theirs? Whoa, please think on that one for a while and everything else you have said.

Darren,Please do YOUR research on the history of Orrin and the Team, (there is too much you do not know) for the sake of your own financial and spiritual future (you say you haven’t made money; compound that yearly on your current losses.)

Please read the articles on here and Amthrax’s with an objective mind, STOP the Team Speak in your mind and ask; What would all these people that have had YEARS of experience with Orrin and Team have to gain by telling you the truth, as opposed Orrin/’your mentor have, that are protecting their ‘multi-millions’; to get you to BELIEVE what THEY want you to? What if, those on here are right?

Darren you are blindly following a broken system where your chances of EVER making a profit are slim to none, with some major corruption, lies and deceit.

Educate yourself from JS research/articles on this site along with the others and cult sites and books.

I sincerely feel bad for you; your niaveness is and will be your pitfall. You my friend are blinded.

Answer the poll below. Is Orrin Woodward the Greatest American of this day?

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24 Comments leave one →
  1. not signed up yet permalink
    July 17, 2011 1:33 pm

    Oh my…I cant tell you how many times I have heard get to the major, and if you dotn get anything out of it I will buy your ticket back? So you are out food, gas and the htoel with will be more than 125 bucks.

    Wow. The guy admits hes losing moeny and hes is happy to do it.

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 17, 2011 1:45 pm

    Darren said: “I guarantee you that if you go and don’t fall in love with the TEAM and want to follow Mr. Woodward then anyone in that building, will gladly give you your money back for the ticket.”

    I wonder Darren when I can expect my guaranteed money back? 🙂 Still waiting……

  3. Chuckles permalink
    July 18, 2011 1:52 pm

    Wow.

    Darren’s comments are unbelievable to say the least. After I have a chance to digest what was put forth I will comment further.

  4. Chuckles permalink
    July 18, 2011 9:43 pm

    Hi Darren,

    While I was reading your post 2 things came immediately to mind.

    If you truly feel that your “leader” is “the greatest American of this day,” why are you online searching and commenting on “negative” websites. If you REALLY believe that to be true, you would not be reading anything other than what you are told to read.

    At one time I spoke the same words to my friends and acquaintances that you are using here, and it never crossed my mind to search the web for alternative viewpoints because just doing so, we were instructed, would start a pollution process. (“One drop of ink in a glass of clean water has polluted the water.”) You have started that process by looking up the site you posted on. If what I state is true, than you have already started an irreversible journey to doubt and misbelief. The “pollution” process has begun.

    The second thing that came to mind is that maybe, just maybe, you are not whom you say you are. It could be that you are one of the “leaders” of TEAM surfing the web and gleaning as much info as you can about what is being said so you can twist and spin it, so that from stage you can get a laugh or two from the devoted minions who follow you like sheep to the slaughter.

    I will only address the first assumption, that you are whom you say you are, a current TEAM member.

    You state your disbelief that people actually believe what is written on these blogsites. Well, you must believe what you are reading because a good “believing” minion, steeped in the system the way you claim to be, would dismiss us as “whiners” and not make any comment at all.

    Please allow me to be very clear on this, I once believed as much, or more than most, about your “leader’s” greatness. I really felt he was filled with integrity and goodness. I felt privledged to be a part of such a “great” organization. I also feel that the TEAM introduced me to some great information and I learned a lot from the materials that were available, but, and this is huge, I was led to believe that the only place I could receive such training was through the “system.”

    This, as it turned out was a lie.

    “Your leader” and his cronies are cheating you out of your money. Leadership skills are available FREE from many online sources. Check out John Maxwell or Jim Rohn. You will find that much of what you hear from a TEAM stage is stolen from them and others.

    Here is another item……

    Ask your “mentor” if you can return your major ticket for a refund. Any other answer than “yes you can” is a lie. I was lied to by my mentor. You see I returned my ticket once I decided I was through. I called the TEAM office and talked to a very nice lady there, and she told me “any ticket can be returned for a full refund as long as the event has not taken place.”

    My mentor told me that I had to “eat” any tickets that I could not move to my downline. “Absolutely no refunds!” “It’s the cost of doing business,” I was told. So, like a good minion, I ate HUNDREDS of dollars in unmoved tickets during my years with TEAM, all because my “mentor” lied to me about the return policy. You see, any ticket returned changes your uplines ticket count numbers for profit sharing. Translated, that means less money on his profit sharing checks.

    Your good marriage, relationship with Jesus and the fact that you bought a house should be attributed to God’s goodness to you. TEAM had absolutely nothing to do with it. They want you to believe it is because of them and their teaching, but the fact is you should give credit to where credit is due. The credit goes to GOD. Enough said.

    “Your leader” promised us many things when we left Amway. One being “Walmart of the Internet” The other being a business where the product, (at that time Mona Vie) would pay us more than we would get from system profit sharing. At least that is how my mentor put it. Another LIE. Why do you think you are going to this “new” business of LIFE. I will clue you in. Because the TEAM sucks at moving products! They always have. The only thing they can move is system CD’s, books and tickets. They emphasize that because that is where “your leader” can make the MOST MONEY FOR HIMSELF.

    Finally, here is how you can see how much your “mentor” cares about you and your bride. Tell him you are dropping system and that you found another business that you feel you can actually make a profit from. I guarantee that you will be outcast and chastised. You will be considered a “whiner” like the rest of us.

    Thank you for your time.

  5. John permalink
    July 18, 2011 10:12 pm

    Is Orrin Woodward one of the greatest Americans of our day? That is so ludicrous it is almost not worth commenting on. Mr. Woodward is a person who is gifted at manipulating, spinning, and deceiving. He is not a great leader. He is not a great businessman. He is not a great politician. He is a person who has developed a good money making machine that pays great for him and for his top leaders. Orrin has his followers fooled. He is not the man he says he is. He is the wizzard of Oz. He is the man behind the curtain. I pity those who have been fooled by this clever con artist.

  6. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    July 19, 2011 8:31 am

    Hey Darren. Don’t throw the ticket refund crap out there too willingly once (if) you hit profit sharing. I had some one who wanted a refund on their tickets once so I did the right thing since the Team put forth the guarantee. Then I approached the Team office for MY refund of the refund and was told it was MY responsibility as the profit sharer/leader to absorb the cost! “No, I disagree.” I said. “Too bad. Thats the way it works.” Was the reply. Ethical? Morally correct? Honest? Example of “A great American”? Please. Put that tidbit of truth in your pipe and smoke it. I hope you gag. They’re all crooks.

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 19, 2011 9:47 am

    I found Switches comment very comical, he must have copied and pasted this from Darren’s blog/site. So, either Darren is extremely naive or playing some major games and this is just bogus, either way would not surprise me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. 🙂

    switch says:
    July 14, 2011 at 8:17 pm
    LMAO!

    Here’s what I found interesting about Mr. Bravenec….

    \
    Bravenec says on his blog/site

    “And Away We Go!!!
    Good afternoon my fellow Americans.

    My name is Darren Wayne Bravenec and I am starting my campaign now for President of the United States of America in the year 2026. Most politicians burn through millions of dollars in campaign funds and although I will be in need of some funds later on down the line I will be doing what I can with the power of the internet and by trying to build a follwing over the next 15 years.

    So I hope that everyone enjoys this blog as it will be updated every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And as we go along I will be updating the blog with photos and make it look a little cooler because everyone wants a cool president.

    Also as I read through some books that are suggest from my mentor, whom I will not mention until I have his approval, I will be making the blog for that day about the book or occasionally even in the middle of a book if something strikes me greatly.

    Anyhow that is enough for now and I am looking forward to having Wednesday’s blog up early

    God bless,
    Darren

    Now that’s a scary thought huh, gang? One of Orrin’s followers leading our nation as “Commander in Chief”.

    CLASSIC!

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 19, 2011 10:40 am

    IQ~ I love the put it in your pipe and smoke it! Great comments from you all!

    We ALL know the TRUTH on the ‘refunds’; that it is a FLAT out LIE at least from the Team standpoint. The ‘LEADERS’ have always been expected to Give the refunds and would be the ONLY way someone would get one. Leaders NEVER got the refunds! There isn’t a Leader on the Team that doesn’t know this and all have been ‘stuck’ with eating them, since the beginning of time, LOL and the responsiblity fell back on the leaders, period!
    Another way for the Team to cover their butts, but milk the leaders!

    So another snowed, soul. That statement is as old as Amway!

    Darren’s comments are very disturbing to me, if he really is this naive? If he hadn’t said he has been in a year, and admit he has ‘defintely invested more than he has made”; I wouldn’t have guessed he was brand new. The idol worshipping is a dead give away too!

    I find it very interesting he thinks that his ‘mentor very seldom mentors on the business’ and that is not a red flag for him? How are they qualified to do marriage and financial mentoring;expertise? The only thing they would be ‘qualified’ to mentor on is (the business) and even that is questionable.

    The most disturbing thing he has bought into is the ‘feeling of God’s presence in the room’, THIS IS A MONEY MAKING EVENT, Biggest pay day for the Top; you wonder why Jesus flipped the money tables?(Mattew 21:12) enough said.

    Our group numbers alone brought in well over a hundred to hundrend fifty grand to ONE of these events, that would be peanuts to some groups! So, again Darren thinks people are ‘mentoring’ out of the ‘goodness’ of their hearts? 🙂

    Darren says: “He has definitely invested way more time and money into my wife and then they have made of of us.”

    Darren, I see you have ‘fallen’ for that BS too, your mentor might not be making squat on ‘his goodwill-mentorship’ but believe me, he believes he eventually will, and trust me someone is making A LOT off your naiveity!

    I would like to see Darren ask his mentor what the likelyhood is of him EVER making it or a profit would be, poor soul is going to go broke.
    Maybe he will have better luck with being the President? 🙂

  9. switch permalink
    July 19, 2011 1:48 pm

    I definitely got a kick out of Darren’s blog/site. 🙂

    It’s just too bad Dateline is licking their chops over people like Darren.

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 20, 2011 10:42 am

    Here is a comment under the featured post here, from Amthrax this post that I found on LM. I thought it was very appropriate for this thread. Greatest American Of the Day ? You decided. I appreciate Samantha having the guts to share.

    Samantha says:
    July 20, 2011 at 8:23 am
    Speak Your Truth — speaks the truth! I once considered Orrin and Laurie Woodward my BEST friends. I spent YEARS following them, believing that they were wonderful people helping to improve people’s lives through self-improvement, positive association, etc. I was heart-broken to find out the whole thing is a lie.

    Let me assure you, Orrin Woodward is a class A liar. Period. He has lied about EVERYTHING. He lies about Team profit-sharing; he manipulates the numbers every week so that his “favorites” make more than others. He lies about people; he really dislikes people and says horrible things about them behind their backs. Yes, he has even said nasty stuff about Chris Brady! He is NOT a leader, he is a manipulator. He believes that his financial success proves he is a fantastic business man. He once said that he was better than Jack Welch and John Maxwell–you know, “Jack Welch and John Maxwell have not accomplished what I have accomplished.” That is correct; Jack Welch and John Maxwell have not manipulated tens of thousands of people for their own financial gain.

    Recognition at Major seminars is rigged. Dan and Lisa Hawkins were GIVEN other people’s teams so that they could achieve Diamond and Policy Council. Simply so Orrin could point to someone and say, see it IS working.

    [Editor’s Note: Removed at the request of Samantha]

    Do you want more?

  11. webelieved permalink
    July 20, 2011 10:56 am

    Holy sh*****T! This is discusting and repulsive and criminal if you ask me! A minor incident????? Have they lost their fricking minds?? Are they this delusional?
    They need to GO STRAIGHT TO JAIL If this is true! I know the rest of what she says is true!
    I am so taken aback by the last paragraph I don’t know what else to say. Could you tell us more of what you know?
    What a LIAR ORRIN IS! Thanks for shedding more light on the truth!

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 20, 2011 11:08 am

    WOW~ This is an amazing post with some disturbing insight. People wonder why there are so many whistle-blowers sharing what they know. People are livid. Talk about a Revolution. This post p*sses me off to the max that these scumbags are getting away with their corrupted bullsh*t everyday bringing others in on the premise of changing the world, financial freedom, religion, and becoming Rich. It is nothing but an unforgivable scam, and people better WAKE UP and take this SERIOUSLY. It disgusts me to no end. These con’s need to be taken down.The lives they are damaging is incomprehesible! It just keeps getting uglier and they are being exposed, there better be no one ever try and convince me they are Godly! I truly am speechless!

  13. Huperdeim permalink
    July 20, 2011 11:15 am

    If Samantha’s comment is true, that could be very damning. But is there proof?

    [Editor’s Note: Removed portions of Samantha’s comment in the meantime due to the sensitive nature of the discussion]

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 20, 2011 1:34 pm

    Huperdeim~
    Damning indeed. I am confident though that Samantha, knows this and wouldn’t share something that couldn’t be backed up, especially something this damning. There is no doubt in my mind by Samantha comments she knows Orrin and Laurie very, very, well and they have shared with her more than they have a lot of people.

    This has gone beyond the destruction of ‘business opportunity’ that doesn’t deliver, that people are being raked over the coals with, or spreading some false hope, which is destructive and bad enough, this is some serious corruption and destruction, cover-ups and downright sick & twisted workings.

    I do hope Samantha comes here to share more.

  15. Huperdeim permalink
    July 20, 2011 7:45 pm

    I too hope she shares more. I have some friends that I would like to show some concrete proof to. I certainly wouldn’t rejoice if this story is true, but I would be glad to save others from these people.

  16. July 20, 2011 11:15 pm

    Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  17. Samantha permalink
    July 21, 2011 9:07 am

    Huperdeim, unfortunately everything I said is true. There is a LOT of stuff I won’t say because I can’t verify it. But here are just a couple of tibdits.

    Orrin personally told me that he had to fire Bobbie Dickie (Pastor Dickie’s son) after three or four warnings for recklessly spending Team money and paying employees way too much. When I casually mentioned that to Pastor Dickie almost a year later, he explained that Bobbie had NOT been fired but had quit because he could not continue to work in an environment that was so corrupt. Pastor would NOT elaborate or give details, but suffice to say that he was very saddened that Orrin was slandering his son, especially when his son knew enough to bury Orrin.

    After some digging, I found one small little bit of info. Every Wednesday morning, Orrin gets the updated numbers from the office—seminar tickets sold, numbers on system, attendance at open meetings, etc. I used to admire the way he carefully studied his business, but there is more to it. He MANIPULATES those numbers before the rest of the Policy Council sees them in order to make sure his current favorites get paid more and others get less. This is from the guy who preaches integrity from stage over and over and over.

    [Editor’s Note: Remove salacious details at the request of Samantha, pending further notice]

    Does our country need leaders like this? More later…

  18. July 21, 2011 10:00 am

    Everyone – Regarding Samantha’s story about the Round Table member. I’ve edited down the comments in the meantime since this is a very sensitive subject. Let’s focus on the other things instead of this.

  19. Samantha permalink
    July 21, 2011 10:50 am

    Yes, sorry, Amthrax is correct. The point of my telling the story is NOT so people will track down the perpetrator. The police have already been involved, and for now we need to leave it in their capable hands. The point of this story is to show the extent of the corruption of the Team leadership, and how the love of money can completely destroy all other principles.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 21, 2011 12:25 pm

    Amen!

  21. Chuckles permalink
    July 21, 2011 3:38 pm

    Capable hands of the police? Their hands are tied. It’s the criminal justice system and/or the CPS that should be handling this whole sordid affair.

    Heck, if you want to see something happen get someone like Geoffrey Fieger involved. He will create enough noise about this that it would be impossible to ignore.

    Think about that for just a minute. He could protect a child, help throw a molestor behind bars (where he should be) and, at the same time bring down the “turd” for protecting the guy. The turd may end up losing everything in the end. That would be justice.

    I wonder what Dallin thinks about this situation?

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 21, 2011 4:38 pm

    Chuckles~ Great comments. My heart bleeds for this girl. If your mother don’t protect and stand for you who will? God help her.

  23. webelieved permalink
    July 21, 2011 7:37 pm

    Samantha- I agree, let’s protect the girls identity. If they hid this they will hide anything! Who is protecting the girl!? These guys think they are above the law! I am so glad someone had the brain to do the right and legal thing and turn the sicko in! I sure will pray she will gain strength to stand up for herself. How hard it must be to live in the middle of these teambots and know they care more about their image then her. My heart aches for her. And seriously a lie their pastor made up?! These people are nuts! They will go at any length to protect their image! The poor pastor and man at the church! Wow talk about slander!

    I knew the profit sharing was rigged just wondered how they did it. I know of many people paid way less than their downline who had much smaller teams! Wondering how that happened when we were getting paid on numbers? It seems you explained it.

    Many people have commented on the Hawkins freebies. Do you know to what extent they were given? It seems that was a big secret to most? Do you know who else was given freebies?

    For Orrin to slander the Dickie family is discusting! It seems Orrin used Pastor and his family for credibility.He should be ashamed of himself! Does this guy have no conscience?
    And where is Laurie in all of this? Ignoring the truth and standing by her man I supose? 😦

    Thanks for sharing, we’d love to hear more!

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