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Comment of the Week: Witty Describes Ohio Leadership Convention

August 2, 2011

The Comment of the Week comes from a reader known as “Witty name describing current circumstances”. He or she recently attended the TEAM Leadership Convention in Columbus, Ohio.

Witty’s first comment showed a TEAM member who was at a crossroads with the business:

Hey guys, thanks for helping a big, (although young and gullible) dreamer open his eyes and finally take a look at Team from a different perspective. After what I’ve read on this site, it’s just a matter of time before I sever my ties with the business for good. I have a ticket to the major at the end of this month, so I think I’ll go to that (especially the way they keep hyping it up….might as well see what they’re going to be trying next if i already “invested” in my ticket). They’ve hyped the darn thing up enough that even someone on the way out feels compelled to see what’s happening, which either means something big might actually happen, or they’re grasping for whatever they can get (who knows)

To the former team leaders who have been posting I have some questions. At what level did you start to realize that the business wasn’t quite all it’s cracked up to be? Was it only after closer encounters with your “moving on upline” and pc members? I ask because the highest leader I encounter on a consistent basis is a silver (mostly hang with bronzes and star 1000s) and I just can’t imagine that they would still be as psyched as they seem to be if they knew about the experiences you guys have been talking about. I’ve brought up this site and others and was told that most of the info was largely fictional, which I find somewhat difficult to believe. But yeah I’m still attending opens and seminars, but have stopped it with CDs because all they do is get me excited to be loose with my wallet and go out and buy more and more and more (i’m sure I’m some of these profit sharers dream guy….young, naïve, excitable, nice little savings account etc.) In my heart I feel like leaving is going to be the best decision for me. I’m a very happy person in general, but thinking about still going to opens and such makes me feel queesy…the only time I feel negative is when thinking about Team. Of course the system would attribute that to me not being willing to step outside of my comfort zone to chase my dream, but I think life will again begin to be colorful once again once people become people again instead of “prospects.” Anywho I tend to ramble so sorry for the long post, if you could address some of what I said I’d much appreciate!

Peace and Love!

Readers on this blog provided Witty with their perspective based on their own TEAM experiences. There are always two sides to every story. People who are looking at joining (or quitting) TEAM should always consider both when deciding what to do.

Armed with a $125 ticket to the Ohio convention, Witty witnessed the pre-launch of LIFE. Here’s Witty’s thoughts regarding the weekend:

Speak and John, the get in to get rich stay in to get right was actually said onstage, and probably then tweeted by someone in the audience.

How LIFE is going to “work.” A person who is buying products on autoship will be called a subscriber, and those building the business and getting those cds/books will be “on system.” The LIFE program will have three separate monthly programs you can subscribe to: LIFE consisting of a book and two CDs, LLR, consisting of a book and two CDs, and AGO, consisting of a book and one CD. In addition, they will have products to fill all the 8Fs so that people can click on the F that they want to improve, and be directed to that page. If you’re on system, you will receive a book of the month, two team CDs and two SOL (standing order leadership) CDs. Sounds like MVS is going bye-bye. By the sounds of it, they are going to be trying to tweak things to still have monavie associated in the fitness F, but outside of Jeff Graham, the North American president or something, coming out and talking about the products, Monavie was pretty much not talked about (It’s about community, not product!) The fact that they are taking two categories available to people on system now (AGO, LLR) and are moving them into their product line for LIFE definitely seemed a little fishy to me. I will admit, their website was pretty cool sounding when it came to how to keep track of your downline, but that was pretty much the only nice thing. They wouldn’t even say a single word about any type of products that would be seen come 11-1-11, as they knew we “wouldn’t be able to keep it a secret” and be “promoting something that hasn’t happened yet” and blah blah blah; in my head all I heard was give me your money at the next major so YOU CAN BE THE FIRST TO HEAR ABOUT OUR “WORLD CLASS” PRODUCTS! I mean come on!

Other fun facts: In addition to Dan and Lisa being recognized for PC, Claude and Lana were recognized for going double PC, and Tim and Amy were recognized for triple PC.

So from now until the October major, the “biggest squeeze play of all time” is going to be run. The plan that will be shown will pretty much remain the same, but will promote what is coming out in November.

I mentioned in an earlier comment kind of how some of the pay structure was going to work (not may area of expertise at all and it was a little over my head so don’t quote me on this next amount of info.) They said whereas other compensation plans only offered 4% off of downline product, this new plan will offer 8%. Just trying to think about what they were trying to talk about is confusing me now, so I think I’ll leave it at that. Maybe the leaders know that the average person will not understand how compensation plans work, and just promise DOUBLE of what others would pay (or at least make that claim) leading to more excitement and we all knows what happens when that group gets fired up….

So that’s my blurb about the major, let me know if you have questions, I’ll try to get them answered.

Moving on, I just want to thank you all for helping me open my eyes just a little bit. Being younger and more naïve about what really goes on in the world, I probably would have gone into extreme debt had I not started to see the light. Funny how I was listening to a Claude and Lana Hamilton CD at work one day, and thought “I should google search for pictures of these guys that would be fun,” and lo and behold, I found this website. After reading pretty much every article I could find, I was shocked to read that some leaders aren’t even in Orrin’s downline. I, along with probably the majority of people still on Team, assumed that Claude and Lana were downline of Orrin. That was the first among many red flags that went up as I continued to absorb the info on this site.

What’s crazy is that even trying to see things from a more critical stand, I caught myself again starting to buy-in to what was being said on stage this weekend. It just blows my mind that these “leaders” can so flawlessly lie with smiles and excitement…..I guess I’m still trying to find the good in people because that’s what I’ve been taught to do my whole life. But, alas, that was probably my downfall in joining up and buying what Team was selling me.

So very soon I will be leaving Team for good. You’d think that would be easy, but even now, reading what I’ve read, it’s a struggle. But it has to be done.

It’s weird though, because even though I feel like I’ve been duped, I still almost feel thankful for some of what I’ve learned through Team. Maybe that’s the system that’s still somewhat floating around in my brain, or maybe my eternal optimistic attitude, but I’m glad I know have an appreciation for reading, a desire to actually fight for the dreams I had before that Team brainwashed me into thinking would lead me to living a miserable life (I mean let’s be honest, dreaming about being a doctor is absolutely ABSURD! Why would I ever trade time for money in my own S business when I could hand over half my life savings to Orrin and the PC in hopes of being “retired” in 2-5 years!) And most importantly, I have decided to try and start to find God in my life (although I will be doing my best to make sure the ideas about God and Jesus from Team are replaced with teachings from people without ulterior motives.

So, sorry for the long post, just thought I’d share and get a few things off my chest. Thanks!

I know exactly how Witty felt when I made the decision to leave “the business.” No one likes to feel duped. The sooner that you accept that you’ve been taken for a ride, however, the faster you’ll be able to move on!

58 Comments leave one →
  1. Cali ~ permalink
    August 2, 2011 5:55 am

    I can relate to this only I left not knowing I had actually been duped. I was so naive I really thought it was my fault I didn’t make any money. I am glad I came upon this site. knowing the extent of the truth years ago could have helped me out greatly, although it would have hurt worse because at the time I felt “close” to people. I thought they actually cared. This is the real scam for me. Reading these posts have helped me see how those guilty feelings of not being good enough for the team has carried over into other parts of my life. Guilt about not having the same values or lifestyle dreams for example, or automatically thinking I don’t have what it takes to be a “leader” at any job I have had since. I thought I have moved on but I see not as well as I would have liked to be believe. What a process this has been. Thanks for sharing everyone.

  2. free at last permalink
    August 2, 2011 11:18 am

    Witty, I have learned a lot from the team, both good & bad. The one thing I have seen is people doubting themselves when their team is not growing. Have you ever heard or said any of the following. I”m not the leader I need to be yet; I haven’t worked the system; I haven’t read enough books….. Hopefully you get the point. Don’t be to hard on yourself, its a very tough business unless your willing to go out every night, deceiving people.

  3. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 4:38 am

    This is sad. This is really sad. Talk about deception. You are all on here talking about the Team’s character and integrity but the lack of integrity on the part of this young man is ok? Here he was deceiving his upline, his sponsor. He stabbed the person in the back with these comments on this website. You make comments about Team deceiving you…and yet this was one of the most deceiving moves to date. Oh, lets go to the Major, I’m all in with you guys, this is going to be great. I’m sure witty had a great time hanging out with his “team” during the break on Saturday. Talking, sharing stories, coming up with some game plans to better his future. I imagine he even went to Sunday morning worship and prayed with his Team friends. Got them all believing a lie that he was on board. Then he gets on here and spews all this venom out to total strangers he will never meet who never really care about his future or where he is going in life. What a bunch of CRAP. Get wise Witty. The negativity will bring you down. There is nothing wrong with being positive and hopeful and dreaming about the future. You don’t need to go into debt like they are saying on this stupid website. You have choices. In fact, I listened to a cd this morning where Orrin talked about getting your finances right. Because of financial cds such as this, I’ve done more debt reduction lately then I have my whole life. Go back to your upline Witty. Stay close to him/her and don’t let yourself be deceived by this negative crap they are spewing on this website.

  4. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:27 am

    Hey lifer, keep doing what you’re doing. You’re on your way. I believe in you. Keep the goal in front of you. And remember- NO NEGATIVE. Now get off this site you dumbass, its negative.

  5. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:53 am

    Oh ouch…you could my a dumbass. LOL

  6. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:53 am

    crap…I don’t even know how to…”Called”*….lol

  7. August 3, 2011 6:25 am

    @Lifer – Speaking about getting a life….why don’t you start with your own! ” I listened to a CD this morning where Orrin talked about getting your finances right”. LOL! Let me guess… it was from the “Maximize Your Finances” 6 CD pack! Oh yes ….good stuff! Go buy a 6 CD pack for $40 and learn how to save money! Oh make sure you carry it out of the tool room with your “Team tote bag” and make sure you get a couple of Team pens, to write in your Team note pad all the words of wisdom from stage! STEP AWAY FROM THE TOOL ROOM! Do you think you could get this “financial advise” for free anywhere else? No… I’m sure only Orrin could provide you with awesome information like “Spend less than you make”…..Genius!

    Lifer I actually hope that you read more of this blog, and see the truth for the first time! Then you might reclaim your life! Until next time…..Fired up…..proud of you…..keep doing what your doing…..

  8. Witty name describing current circumstances permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:45 am

    Dearest Lifer,
    I’m sorry you see my actions as deceptive, I was just looking for perspective. Believe me Lifer, I’ma a very positive person outside of Team, but it seems that whenever I’m at one of the functions, my thoughts immediately go negative. Something just isn’t right and just isn’t clicking. I went to the major to hopefully recatch some of the fire I lost in the past, and I was just responding to a question as to if anyone knew how the LIFE system would work. This time, however, I tried not to succumb to the excitement that didn’t “force” but definitely had a big part in my spending a grand on tools. Peer pressure is an amazing thing.

    And I’m sorry you saw what I said was “spitting venom,” that was definitely not my intention at all. Perhaps you missed the part where I said how hard leaving is because the people in my upline are fantastic people. Or perhaps you are once again assuming everything outside of Team is negative. Another CD will help you out with that, or so I’m told. The people who keep listening to these CDs think that they’re so positive and whatever, but in reality, it’s turned them into cynics. One of my best friends is treating pretty much all our other friends like they are way beneath him and like crap and validates it with, well, they’re just not positive people. You’re right, there is nothing wrong with being positive and hopeful about the future. I am both of these things. I, unfortunately, got dragged into believing my previous hopes and dreams before Team were silly, and had to keep making up all these dreams that were half-dreams. I wouldn’t have done it but it seemed like my friends and upline on team only considered talking to me if my dream was to their liking.

    I reread over my previous comments and failed to find anything extremely negative, besides perhaps saying COME ON to them not saying a word about what sorts of things they’ll be selling come 11-1-11, and saying it seems odd that part of the new life system is just transferring over two already existing parts of their system to the product side of things. And I’ve been deceived too, my upline never said a word about profit sharing or what it meant to go director to me, I assumed all money made came through Monavie, not through the system. It woulda been nice to know that, but hey, who am I to judge?

    Anyhow lifer, I hope you find this post less full of venom, because that was not my intentions at all. I was told I would find out everything I needed to know about LIFE by my director upline, but I guess we don’t know EVERYTHING until October… it just seems the lies continue. I do wish you the best in your business Lifer, and I hope your dreams do come true and you accomplish all you want to accomplish. After some reevaluation of my life, it just seems being on team isn’t benefiting my REAL dreams, the one’s I had before Team that were crushed by my own Team. But now, thanks to Team, I know to never falter from my dreams again. And I agree, the financing pack is fantastic 🙂

    [Editor’s Note: Added paragraphs for easier readability]

  9. Witty name describing current circumstances permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:49 am

    sorry was rereading previous post, having a comma between trying to recatch my fire and responding to a question about LIFE madeit sounded as though one of my reasons for going to the major was to post on this blog, which is NOT the case. Those were just two separate thoughts that happened at the same time. Perhaps minor punctuation errors like that lead Lifer to think that my previous posts were so venom-filled, and if that’s the case I apologize Lifer! Again, best wishes to you and your family!

  10. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:53 am

    Oh, I could have called one of those infomericial shows in the middle of the night and spent hundreds of dollars to become rich. I think not. Nope. I’ll stick with the Tool Room and get Real Value for my money. Thanks for the advise though.

  11. August 3, 2011 6:58 am

    @Lifer – Do you have an addictive personality? LOL! Yes….late night infomercials! That’s exactly where I was going with that! LOL. There are a tons of resources out there that can help you make better financial decisions! My goodness…. I’ve learned more from Clark Howard on CNN than I did from TEAM in the money management department! LOL. Keep sending them the cash though….I’m sure Orrin appreciates “YOUR” business.

  12. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    August 3, 2011 8:27 am

    Lifer – your Emotional Intelligence is at an all time low. You are not reading enough. That’s not the attitude nor behavior of a true, Good to Great Leader. You are not “Loving Us Where We Are”. You should pray for us as you are striving to be a Servant Leader. I’m surprised that you would stoop to our level. You’re just not good enough and if you don’t change your way’s your business will suffer. It’s obvious that you need this new L.I.f.E system.

  13. August 3, 2011 8:59 am

    I removed some back-and-forth one-sentence name-calling comments from this thread.

  14. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 9:31 am

    My apologizes Amthrax…..

  15. I Quit ( and glad I Did) permalink
    August 3, 2011 9:48 am

    Its kind of too bad that the world won’t see the hypocrisy of yet another Teamer “living intentionally for excellence”. Puke.

  16. August 3, 2011 10:37 am

    @LIfer – Just like TEAM has changed your mind about a great many things, people can come to this website to learn information that may change their minds about TEAM. Reading the posts and comments helped Witty come to a different conclusion than you have. Attending and experiencing the Major Convention last week only strengthened Witty’s new perspective on the business.

    Bottom line – people can change their minds.

  17. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 10:51 am

    Agreed Amthrax. Obviously Witty and I both came out of the Major Convention with two very different perspectives about LIFE.

  18. Witty name describing current circumstances permalink
    August 3, 2011 10:57 am

    Indeed we did. And lifer, next time please do not go running your mouth on a person’s integrity when you have absolutely no insight on the individual situation. The reason I went to this major was I promised my upline I would three months ago. I’m glad you got something from the major, and good luck to you in your business these coming months!

  19. I'm a Lifer permalink
    August 3, 2011 10:59 am

    Just because we see things from a different perspective doesn’t make any of us 100 percent wrong. Who knows, maybe I will change my perspective if this LIFE thing doesn’t work out the way it is suppose to. But I’m really curious to see where LIFE is going and if I have any possibilities of success with this program.

  20. switch permalink
    August 3, 2011 11:01 am

    Here’s another interesting quote that came of Pastor Dickie’s Facebook page….

    “One of the sins I despise the most is hypocrisy……”

    Who knows, I Quit…..we just may get some help yet.

  21. Witty name describing current circumstances permalink
    August 3, 2011 11:04 am

    Amen to that Lifer!
    Here’s hoping it works out the way you want it to

  22. switch permalink
    August 3, 2011 11:07 am

    I’m pressing the “Like” button on his page.

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 2:08 pm

    This is quite entertaining; I am with switch that is 2 for the ‘like’ button and am with Pastor Dickie’s quote 1000%!

    Don’t ever feel like you need to apologize to someone who is trying to lay the quilt trip on you and make you feel like you don’t have a right to THINK what you choose. That is the only way they can keep people in is by MANIPULATING THRU GUILT, if anything he owes you an apology. He never even tried to attempt to understand WHY you feel the way you do. Go figure.

    Lifer ~
    You have a lot of audacity pulling a BS stunt like that with your quilt trip. WE LIVE IN A FREE COUNTRY! I I know it’s hard to comprehend for you but no one on here needs others to tell them how to THINK, feel or decide what they choose to do with their lives or whether they like something or not. Snap out of it!

    Cha-ching; got in the way 3 months prior!

    Do you want to send Witty’s money back from the ‘kool-aide’ festival; he obviously isn’t satisfied!

    Why don’t you work on that, root problem, do a little plagerized PDCA?

    He told you he promised his upline, but I am sure it was because his upline used his best conning/ quilt trip skills,(like your trying to do) blinded by the almighty dollar, used on Witty 3 months prior to get him to promise he would attend?

    You lifers hypocrisy is unreal, damned if you do and damned if you don’t!

    Did you want Witty to EAT his ticket? Answer would be YES. And don’t even give me the BS, they give refunds, you know you’d be straight up lying there. With one exception Witty threw a big enough stink, possibly go to channel 8 News or maybe Forbes, or found honest upline which I doubt you are his upline. lol

    Off on a tangent, my point is the ticket was bought (he now has already donated to the Orrin/PC possibly lifer fund and is $125 in the hole! Believe it or NOT he has the right to GO, (the team took his money, remember?) So he can think, feel , and do, whatever HE CHOOSES to about ANYTHING IN HIS LIFE, without some dirt bag laying the ‘un-loyalty, backstabbing guilt trip on him/her BS!’

    And has far as your ‘backstabbing’ pile of horse dung; give up the hypocrisy. You are following the biggest backstabbers of all time, who has lied about Every Single Leader and why they left, slandered, and backstabbed including Pastor Dickie.

    So put that in your pipe and smoke it!

    Your moniker really should be OSTRICH!

    Here’s why, it fits to tee! 🙂

    The groups have a pecking order, with a dominant male that establishes and defends a territory, also they can run up to 43 miles an hour, kinda like you, and all other lifers running from the truth at lightning speed, LHOL; although it is a myth they stick their heads in the sand it just ‘appears- an illusion’ they do, they flop on the ground when they are scared and their bodies are so big and their heads blend in, and it ‘appears their heads are in the sand. Just like the L.I.F.E.R.S who get scared, want to stay in denial, including Orrin & the Pc. They are scared of being found out and of losing their MONEY and the ones not making anything are scared they will lose the fantasy of becoming RICH like the PC, or scared of losing what little they are making and trying to hang on to it for dear life) they get defensive, lie, deceive, name call, or whatever it takes to hide from the TRUTH (flop on the ground, with their tizzy fits), stay in denial, and bury their heads in the sand, LHOL

    Your welcome for the’ FREE’ education lifer! 🙂

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 4:26 pm

    BTW-Lifer this is the biggest monstrosity you have said;

    ” I imagine he even went to Sunday morning worship and prayed with his Team friends. Got them all believing a lie that he was on board.”

    Tell us lifer, how on God’s green earth does that have jack to do with genuine worship and prayer?

    You are Revolting and Despicable, using ‘worship and prayer’ as a guilt trip, but this is, yet another conformation of the exact testament and reflection to what the team mis-leaders do.

    You are FAILING lifer.

    That ought to get some new people started, good thing you didn’t come on with your real name,(COWARD, that’s from your team friends) you wouldn’t have a team at all, that’s if you even do now?

    Like praying with team friends (fake ones, like you) that have ANYTHING at ALL to do with making someone believing you are on board and telling a lie? You are flippin twisted, are USING church for your twisted agenda, and are a horrible example. YOU should be ashamed of yourself for saying such a thing. You have shown your true motive to getting others to Sunday morning worship, for you and the rest of the shysters, it isn’t Worship time, and it is to only PROVE you are on board! SAD, REALLY SAD!

    Lifer you know what causes so much contempt and disgust, is statements like that, you don’t THINK people don’t SEE your real motives? You are an exact replica of those PC you follow, who are building the business for a PROFIT, PRETENDING you are building the church body. You need a check up from the neck up or a professional counselor who knows how to strip you of your Greed and Manipulation!

    Then you proceed with this idiotic statement: “Then he gets on here and spews all this venom out to total strangers he will never meet who never really care about his future or where he is going in life.”

    You don’t have a flippin clue and your desperation to ‘save’ Witty from quitting is pathetic and I am embarrassed for YOU. I guarantee you we care a hell of a lot more for Witty than you have proven too. And am sure there are plenty of ‘strangers’ who would treat him a thousand times better than YOU have, and I suppose you are scratching your mindless head, wondering why he did respond in a ‘positive’ way to you. WAKE UP, You repel!

    You lifer, need to do some serious ‘soul’ searching because it seems you have already sold your soul for the lie. YOU are the one who should apologize.

  25. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 3, 2011 4:39 pm

    KABOOM! Had to steal it SYT. Man it felt good.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 5:57 pm

    Steve~ I hear you! 🙂

    Lifer needs to leave and not come back until he has read the TOP 5 books, 5 times, take 2 asprin, or something (he should check with his doctor) and go to bed, LHOL

  27. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:13 pm

    Maybe he should check with his upline, and see what he thinks is appropriate. Lol

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:27 pm

    Oh yea, I could I forget! Maybe THERE IS HOPE! Whoo, I thought I was going to be a DREAMLESS LOSER forever! LHOL 🙂

  29. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 3, 2011 6:40 pm

    I was just thinking…..How good it feels to be out of that bs. Now it would feel much better if we could somehow make people like Lifer, Rykel, and the rest, understand how morally bankrupt the leaders in Team are. Just some thoughts…..

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 7:07 pm

    It is a sad state for those like lifer, anf rykel, they are ‘all in’ even when they know the truth is staring them in the face. They are in some wicked denial. I think it will take something big for it to happpen for them, but when it does they are going to fall hard. Who knows who lifer really is, but he is holding on to his blinders with everything he’s got. Sad, yes indeed.

  31. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 3, 2011 7:51 pm

    Steve~ Isn’t it amazing seeing from a crystal clear view and how obvious it is;

    The Greed, idolitry, lack of depth in friendships mostly fake ones, how every single person is only valued if they are either spending it all, performing or both, how they pin everything in the outside world against their inside world, how they change people’s beliefs systems to fit their agenda, the secrets, half-truths, and down right lies and deception used, how they say they love and are positive, but their actions show hate and cynicism, that they are the ONLY one’s with the ‘correct’ knowledge who know how to think and are the ONLY ones who can tell you what and how to think, how they use and abuse God?

    They keep (control) your mind and you so busy while you’re there, it is almost impossible to recognize these destructive things. It became extremely clear, shocking but clear when the registration shenanigans occured. They have gone down hill since then (surprise, not) but you end up seeing clearer the more people who come on here and use the rhetoric and bs. So, I hope they keep coming, I would love to hear what a new prospect thinks (there are a few who shared) when they read this.

    Unfortunately, we never had a whole team of people on a website like Amthrax when we left, I would have been able to tell the bigger leaders and others telling the truth right away.

    I ran into a local business owner who got screwed over badly by one of his best friends, I shared a little of our story and this is what he said; “There is a place in HELL for people like that.” I agreed.
    He was very ‘positive’ but deeply hurt and didn’t deny that it hurt his family and business deeply.

    It should be blantantly obvious, especially to the defenders but it depends how close they are to the top, other wise it is all surface, fake, bs, they can’t imagine the gods on stage could possible steal, cheat, lie, destruct, slander and lie about people behind their backs and it is too hard for them to see the truth.

  32. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 4, 2011 4:25 am

    I agree with you 100%. I was just so blind to the facts that have presented themselves over the last nearly 4 years now. When I think back, I think to myself, what an idiot I was to all of this, especially since my wife could see through it all, and I thought so different. Could have saved tens of thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours had I even opened my eyes a little. Since we have been out, I have been to so many baseball games, band concerts, dinners with the whole family, weekends, and vacations together, instead of the stp on a nightly basis, Tuesdays, Saturdays, majors, etc. It is so nice to now look at, and meet people, be friendly with them without having a hidden agenda. What a relief to be out.

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 4, 2011 6:01 pm


    Don’t beat yourself up, you are not an idiot! You made a great point about your wife and don’t feel bad every single man that has left that got close to the snake he manipulated.

    Without having to share the whole story,one of my friends from the business said to me after we shared some stories, that the men should really listen to their mom’s and wive’s because they spotted the warning signs long before the truth showed up, on Orrin’s/PC fake friendship and his cult/scam; in both stories we discussed.

    In my opinion, Orrin is such a narcissist and manipulating sociopath that he fools the men with his fake bs, I love you man, and manipulates to the max by stroking egos. That isn’t saying the men don’t notice recognize it he just is a master manipulator, women watch closely; while Orrin and the PC be the snakes who blind with their fake; you are my best friend sick lies they pull on their husbands.

    Just as you said your wife did, I beleive women can be real intuitive and have good senses when it comes to their spouses, they also watch out for their husbands and a lot of people have seen the fake one-sided ‘friendship’ Orrin PRETENDs to have with the men way before they do. One day it will come back around for all the damage,& manipulations, and how he has abused people and their ‘friendship.’ I am patiently waiting……

    This a real hot bottom for me because I know how Orrin manipulates, uses, and abuses and the supposed friendships; he is a SNAKE.

  34. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 4, 2011 6:45 pm


    Thanks, and to let you know I am really not beating myself up, just calling em as I see em. Lol. You make a very good point about a womans intuition. I do believe it is that maternal instinct that helps them see through the fog, and it is not the first time she has been right about certain people in our life. So I am forever greatful to her for allowing me to see things through my own eyes, even though it was a painful lesson. I also thank you for sharing that story. It confirms how special the women in our lives are.

  35. August 5, 2011 11:17 am

    Married to an Ambot provides her thoughts on @Cali’s comment

    Read her thoughts on Whose Fault Is It?

  36. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 5, 2011 1:00 pm

    All I can say is, that it is so true. It hurts to see it in print, but sometimes the truth hurts. Thanks for sharing.

  37. August 5, 2011 5:46 pm

    @witty – Did you get the commemorative certificate of participation that Chris Brady said TEAM was going to hand out to every member who attended the Ohio Leadership?

  38. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 5, 2011 7:23 pm

    I agree Steve, you can’t help but bust a gut when reading Anna Banana blog.

    Even though you know it is painful, it makes you laugh. I can only imagine her old upline Platinum must be afraid to even talk to her, from what I have read I would venture to say it wouldn’t be a good idea for the ole Platinum to meet up with her anywhere! LHOL!

  39. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 5, 2011 8:39 pm

    SYT I think she might be happy to see him, and this is a stretch, at his funeral.

  40. Rookie permalink
    August 17, 2011 5:01 am

    I have been working with TEAM for three months. I am not sure what all the negativity is all about. I researched the business thoroughly before I got involved. The simple fact is if you get people you get paid. I am a senior manager for a fortune 40 company. I can’t go out and give myself a pay raise like I can in this industry.

  41. August 17, 2011 7:56 am

    @Rookie – You are a self-described rookie who doesn’t have a lot of experience in TEAM. Either (1) give it more time and you’ll figure it out or (2) read what Ex-TEAM members have experienced following years of being involved with Orrin and TEAM. Use the navigation bar at the top of this page to jump to the most relevant articles.

    The simple fact is not about just getting people… it’s getting people to buy $40/bottles of juice and hundreds of dollars a month on life coaching materials and seminar tickets. And you’ll be working just as hard to replace the people that wised up and got out.

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 17, 2011 8:14 am

    Rookie~ You obviously haven’t researched the Team from all sides. If you read this site you will find that there are numerous BIG leaders, RT ; who BUILT the Teams to thousands and thousands been slandered, lied to, cheated, had our profit-sharing stolen, were up close and personal with Orrin and the PC, for decades.

    We have witnessed and know about many unethical, illegal, and immoral shenanigans, that they have obviously been able to keep you from knowing about because if you REALLY would have ‘researched’ the Team you would have found this.

    Did you know that they started in Amway and that is where Orrin built his team he took to MV? He did NOT build it to Presidental Black Diamond in MV, that was the existing team from Amway. Did you know they were the TEAM of DESTINY, originally (do your research on that with lawsuits)? Did you know they then changed their name to TEAM (generic for search engines) so the ‘negative’ truth wouldn’t be found for you to research as easily? Did you know that they were in a lawsuit that they lost to AMWAY for 25 million because they raided the downline from Amway and then took it to MV? Did you read the article on here called QRUSH who people say that is Orrin, and he was behind Anonymous blogging smear campaingns? Did you know Orrin stole people’s teams and profit-sharing and paid them unfairly? Did you know they changed they name to L.I.F.E for the same reason they change their name ALL the time to try and run from the truth, for people you; to make it more diffi’cult’ to find the TRUTH. Did you know Orrin’s Pastor no longer a part of Team for alot of these reasons. This is just a ‘few’ things Orrin and the PC have done, you can find ALOT more on here! Did you know that A lot of the TOP leaders, Quad, Triple, Turbo 100, RT members, and thousands and thousands MORE left Orrin because he lied, stole, cheated, slandered them? I don’t believe you did your research!

    So, naturally it isn’t going to seem ‘positive’, Unless you think that being stolen from cheated and lied to is a ‘positive’ thing? Because the things that Orrin and the PC are NOT Positive! Tell us exactly how you ‘simply get people and get paid’?

  43. switch permalink
    August 25, 2011 11:23 am

    Rookie says~
    “The simple fact is if you get people you get paid.”

    (chuckle)…..and the way you lure people to the biz is?????….Guzzle more “active”? Get the “pulse” out….these are in fact the “cure all”!

    Are they teaching it a different way now?

    btw, I just got a pay raise……that’s something I never got in team.

  44. willpray4u permalink
    September 14, 2011 7:30 pm


  45. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    September 14, 2011 9:24 pm

    willpray4u…shhhhh…no need to shout here..take the caps lock off…you’ll get your point across just the same.

    The fact that you came on here proves more and more that we are making our point loud and clear. Keep drinking the kool aid….errr…MonaVie…keep giving your money to your upline. Pray for yourself, we’re fine.

  46. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 14, 2011 9:48 pm

    Fly~ lol agreed.


    Which posts did you need clarification on? The one’s where orrin/pc stole people’s profit-sharing and teams, cheated, lied, slandered, destoryed teams in the registration from Q/Amway to MV, the refusal of contracts?… What do you think, do they need your prayers?

    The other thing you could pray for is the ‘books in the Team’ and all their illegal, immoral, and unethical acts get investigated and justice gets served to the fullest extent of the law.
    Also, if you could, pray for those who are coming in now, for their finances and well being and that they don’t lose their critical thinking, because 99% will lose in a big way.

    Thanks we would appreciate it, it is a very sad situation.

  47. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 14, 2011 10:01 pm



    It appears you are ANONYMOUS, did I miss something? What is your real name?

  48. Burned Out With MV permalink
    September 15, 2011 4:08 am

    Can’t wait to see how the newbie’s are talking about the wonders of MLM and the various “experts to your success” in a year or two …… after the hyped up newness wears off, the credit cards are maxed out, they find out the “miracle juice” is just hype in a bottle and their new “best buddies” don’t know them anymore when they can’t spend anymore money on tools and tickets. 🙂

  49. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 15, 2011 6:45 am

    mlm IS THE 8th Wonder of the… really should be in the Genius Book of World Records for the most people with the most financial losses in any endeavor; in the history of the World!….it makes Bernie Madofs scheme look like petty cash scheme…

    I too wonder how long they will last, then come help us with this Veritas Project.. they are ‘promoting’ that they will have the ‘best pay-plan’ in the ‘industry’ (the World!) the same ‘best one’ they had before but different when they stole all of ours on here. Perhaps, the ‘best one’ now will be so only 98% will never make a only lose, lose, lose…? 🙂

    It could just be a coinkydink but I don’t think so, there is a pattern to their madness, it seems that everytime someone brings out some damaging information in a post and/or Amthrax puts up a very telling post…the liefers seem to come flooding in with a vengence…is it just me or have others noticed this?

  50. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 15, 2011 7:15 am

    If I didn’t know their tatics, I wouldn’t be so obvious to me…but they are skilled in distraction and diversion…they numb the mind and blind the eyes…this thread hasn’t been posted under for 3 weeks, and we know the MLM Punisher thread is the one that is most likely they will hit….then all of a sudden (yea right) willpray4u.. decided to show up screaming under a thread that has nothing to do with the rant? Smells like fish.

    Prehaps they don’t want to go under the most recent thread that shows the foreclosure on the Guzzardo’s property or perhaps the information about the questionable documents of the ficticious business’es that Orrin had leaders sign….is a very sensitive subject and good lead to some serious investigation…. by the way I will personally confirm the documents are 100% truth..

    Knowing the tatics of these fraudsters…I would bet the Guzzardo team is ‘rallying’ together to show their ‘loyality’, the way they all do…what they don’t realize….is…they are being used and looked at as nothing but a pawn… Too sad…

  51. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 15, 2011 9:29 am



    Really?….. Why then do the PC and everyone else follow by saying anyone who Quits is a loser and wants something for nothing? Which is it…… its okay to Quit or it isn’t..?

    Add that one to the double message collection.

  52. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 20, 2012 2:36 pm

    To anyone willing to read this (not aimed at anyone directly, but it’s about a quote inside of Lifer’s long post): the quote is in reference to the young man thinking about getting out of LIFE:

    “Here he was deceiving his upline, his sponsor. He stabbed the person in the back with these comments on this website.” (part of Lifer’s prior blog post on this thread)

    Think about it….it shows how indoctrinated, non-critical-thinking Lifer is. As if anyone in this country cannot seek help or make inquiries, etc. Deceiving an upline? How bizarre! The young man in question in this thread began THINKING FOR HIMSELF.

    Stabbing someone in the back? Again, ridiculous–the young man merely pointed out what made him feel queasy about some of what was going on—he even mentioned that he DID get some good out of it. Think about it: if you are unhappy in a job, you might go get counseling or speak to family or friends….you tell them what it is that bothers you—–how many bonafide businesses would say you stabbed them in the back like Judas Iscariot? LOL!!

    That Lifer is so indoctrinated ALONE should give him/her a red flag warning sign that something is definitely wrong with his/her position and/or outlook in life. He/she no longer realizes they have freedom to think more critically. He/she has truly been “domesticated”…just like Orrin Woodward himself blogged on and on about…

  53. Gettin out NOW permalink
    March 25, 2016 5:52 pm

    I always try to see the glass is half full in all things and in all people. My gut instinct told me not to do this but for friend I wanted to help to see him thrive. So I held my spot and bought into the financial fitness pack, a month subscription to Total Access and listen to a bunch of CDs. I went to an open meeting and met some really nice people that were fired up! In February my credit card was charged for a another month subscription for Total Access… My up line guy forgot to tell me when he signed me up I only had one month at $75 now I was going to have to pay $82.50 a month. “Red flag” I promptly canceled that subscription. I was given an IDS for 2015 as much of it was glossed over. No one ever relaying what their income was but all still working “real” jobs like (me (2). “Red flag” nothing was ever really explained how to really make money, just get a names list together and then start sending the short video the DVD 17 get the to watch ask a few ?????? Then have up line guy get them to hold the spot and hookem’ with the Financial freedom pack and that’s it…for now as he takes over while me and my friend continue to watch n learn (mentored) to get good then on to building your own teams, and then learned about squeeze ins. “Red flag” All the while being fed CDs…the only one I could listen to was Dan Hawkins, Claude, Bill Lewis, Chris Mattis (older cd hearing Tim Marks mentioned on them, George Guzzardo) I asked up line guy about Tim he gave a distant remark of not in LL as he’s retired…I could not stand these wives screeching about their wonderful men. Absolutely horrible speakers…! Orrin is a terrible presenter reminded me of a fire n brimstone preacher. Reading posts hear about Pastor I can see how he gives these fear n guilt laden speeches to try whip everyone into a frenzy! I can’t stand to see or hear him. This is truly BWing material. Tear down build up. Same tactics used in cults, the military and lip sticking the pig as Leadership? Two months in this and I’m outta here. Gleaning this website and posts seeing what (heckle (Chris) & jeckle (Orrin)) & their “harpies of wives” have done n continue to do is disgusting!!! I feel so bad for all that believed in this “to live that life you always dreamed about”…and of course to base it all in “community” and Christianity…just sickens me bilking people using their self worth and how LL and God will bring it home for them as the angels sing on high surrounding Orrin and his minions as we wipe the tears from our eyes. Praising the wolves as we are koolaide drinking sheeple listening to the same old diatribe. Same $&#T different MLM. I should’ve trusted my “gut instincts” sooner as my friend did say a bunch of Amway people were putting LL down. I feel my friend I’d clueless as to this whole convoluted mess is has and will continue to become. To be honest I’m feeling like up line guy don’t know the whole deal either. I did 3 contacts in one night so glad they all said NO or didn’t call back. I needed to know this as to not try to make this work, as granny always said “you can’t make a silk lined purse out of a sows ear” and that pig is a pig with or without lipstick…and so it goes. Run run run as fast as you can to find your dream not holding the hands of Brady & Woodward, but on your own merits. Thank heavens I found Amthrax….only out $200.00, my gut talked so now it’s time to walk my talk and move forward as a lesson learned, old dogs can learn new tricks! Blessings to all who read and inspired not to get involved with LL!

  54. March 25, 2016 7:43 pm

    Gettin out NOW – Thanks for sharing your story. Interesting that LIFE members described Tim Marks as having been retired. In April, it may become clear that he’s joined (and founded?) Bonvera, another MLM company. Chris Mattis is another person who left to sell Bonvera.

  55. Anonymous permalink
    March 26, 2016 12:59 pm

    Gettin, Thanks for your story. One word I have for you is CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Hopefully your friend will soon follow your example.

  56. freedomhaha permalink
    March 28, 2016 5:09 am

    Gettin out- Congrats on your freedom! Thank you also for proving the value of this blog time and time again. I think I would be stuck as well if it wasn’t for people much smarter than myself on here.

  57. ExTEAMster permalink
    March 28, 2016 10:52 pm

    Gettin: Great post.Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
    I had never read the original post you were responding to until I saw your comment. The very first LIFE major I went to was the same July 2011 event described. I remember hearing all of the talks about how LIFE was going to revolutionize the leadership industry and how rapid the growth would be and yada yada yada. There’s nothing more frustrating than realizing the time and money I could have saved had I used some common sense.
    By the way…the next LIFE major is April 15-17 in Kansas City. It’s called the Weekend of Entrepreneurs Conference. Do you think they kept a straight face when they first came up with that title?

  58. freedomhaha permalink
    March 29, 2016 4:36 am

    I would love just one person to explain how getting involved with this is in any way, shape, or form owning your own business.

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