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Orrin Woodward’s Five Principles for TEAM LIFE

August 18, 2011

Orrin Woodward has posted a long entry on his new blog entitled, “LIFE TEAM – Five Principles”.

Early on, he alludes to the claims made on this blog that he engaged in anonymous blogging. The rest of the lengthy post delves into the genesis of LIFE, his new MLM venture. There is much to analyze and discuss, but I will mention just a few points right now.

1. Orrin addresses his role in anonymous blogging. Read my main post about Orrin Qrush here to discuss.

2. Orrin admits that Scott Larsen was correct in that the main business in Networking Marketing was the training system, not the products. When did this moment of clarity come to Orrin? If back in 2004-2006, why did he continue to milk the System for another 5-7 years, all while proclaiming that Amway/Quixtar/MonaVie was a great business opportunity?

3. Regarding MonaVie, Orrin states:

For a new person, if money isn’t an issue, then MonaVie products can be purchased in the fitness category immediately; however, if money is a constraint, then instead of having nothing to offer him, we can bring him into LIFE until we turn his finances around, eventually making the fitness category affordable for him.

If I read this correctly, is Orrin saying that people who have lots of money can readily purchase overpriced MonaVie juice, and those who don’t will have to buy Orrin’s leadership tools so they can become rich enough to buy overpriced MonaVie juice?

4. I am not attacking Orrin’s right to pursue the LIFE business, I am criticizing what I believe to be a bad business. And, as an American myself, I am free to do so.

I will address the rest of Orrin’s post later. I encourage you to read it yourself and leave comments, both here and on Orrin’s blog. Orrin himself said he is “happy to entertain any genuine questions or concerns about the LIFE business model,” so be civil.

47 Comments leave one →
  1. August 18, 2011 7:35 pm

    A question comes to mind, though…how are people going to earn money if they’re not maintaining MV’s minimum points volume, (in order to get commissions from MV) and how are they going to earn money if only those who get into profit-sharing will get cheques from TEAM? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. But the hype will still go on…rock-style speakers, dim lighting and tear-jerking stories all to make you buy more tools.

    So the little guys will go into debt anyway.

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 18, 2011 7:51 pm

    I agree wholeheartily Amthrax, NOW he is Agreeing with Scott Larsen?

    Is he admitting to being Qrush because if he is he should just say it instead of beating around the bush!? Classic!

    Orrin himself said; he is “happy to entertain any genuine questions or concerns about the LIFE business model,” The cop out here or KEY words are answer questions about “LIFE BUINESS MODEL” in other words he is NOT agreeing to answer just any questions!

    Not surprised.

    And Orrin, it isn’t just all of sudden, you know this, you have been reading Amthrax blog for years, NO?. You are spinning it, just as you always do. Can you ever just tell the plain and simple truth and say what you mean, instead of being afraid to just tell the truth and not expect people to read between your lines?

  3. not signed up yet permalink
    August 18, 2011 8:07 pm

    Wow. MLM was the business and the products along for the ride? Anyone with any reasonable logic and a business could see that from the start. I did at the very first open I went to.

    I really doubt that the costs of LIFE will come down. The will charge for every opportunity they offer…opens monthlies webcasts and majors. And I am guess there will be a whole new series of CDs, books and DVDs to buy. And I dont think the cost of MV will come down.

    I found the blog to be more of the same. Alot of hype and alot of non specific stuff and of course the go to a million people mantra.

    I can save TEAM people 200 bucks a month on MV and provide them a fitness component for free. And here it is. Get your butts out of those meetings and go for a walk or a run and go exercise!

  4. Lyk permalink
    August 18, 2011 9:45 pm

    People are asking questions in the wrong blog and also It will all be answered 11-1-11 also..why not be patient? Being part of Monavie is optional after making money in Life I would think no?

    @webelieved Truth is great!!
    @not sighned up yet, Everything you mentioned to attend it optional to go to, so you can just like not go…

  5. not signed up yet permalink
    August 18, 2011 11:07 pm

    Lyk really? Optional? Then why is my ex sponsor at the directors level required to go to EVERY open, monthly, webcast, and major? Plus STP 15 times a month, PLUS mentor and training sessions and and what ever else TEAM demands of him?

    The first major I was invited to many months ago was supposed to be THE MOST IMPORTANT EVENT in the history of my life. Now we find out, no, no, November 1 will be the biggest and best and most brilliant thing you can every go to ever.

    And I gotta call ya out on everything will be revealed in November. Nothing was revealed at the last major but a bunch of pre launch hype.

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 19, 2011 12:42 am


    I believe you are at the wrong blog, that is of course if you are ‘obeying’ your ‘guru’s. Shouldn’t you be the life plan? LHOL
    Orrin has a whole post on here dedicated to specific question asked, he knows where to come.

  7. Outcast permalink
    August 19, 2011 9:53 am

    Is this big LIfE reveal going to be at an open? That seems kinda odd. Wish I could go, but I can’t be that fake and I don’t want to lie to everyone. It would be nice to see the reveal for myself.

    After the major a ex-friend said to us that even though we don’t have any money right now, we could “hold our spot”. I almost laughed in her face. Really? Again with the holding your spot.

    These people will never be stopped if they keep recruiting well known pastors to give them credibility. Why can’t they(the pastors) see through this crap?

    [Editor’s Note: “Holding your spot” refers to TEAM’s Sling, Squeeze and Side Action technique for building a downline.]

  8. August 19, 2011 10:09 am

    I think I’ve caught Orrin in another lie. Check out the Orrin Qrush post about his statement saying he stopped mudslinging in late-2005. Yet, in late-2004, he’s saying that mudslinging is bad.

    The problem with lies is that they frequently compound on one another. Sooner or later, it’s going to catch up to you.

  9. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 19, 2011 9:37 pm

    Nothing is surprising but at the same time it is disturbing and very revealing!
    Good to see you back. 🙂

  10. Dorothy permalink
    August 19, 2011 9:19 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  11. August 20, 2011 7:03 am

    @Amthrax – FYI… Orrin has posted this blog post on the internal Team Blog on their website. HOWEVER… he has neglected to include the first 4 paragraphs of his original post!!! You know… the ones that address his anonymous blogging actions and “explanation”! His internal blog on the Team site starts with ” My partnership with Dallin Larsen..”.

    Now…WHY…would he leave that whole first part out? Hmmmmm…….

  12. August 20, 2011 8:58 am

    @mlmpunisher – I’m not surprised. He wouldn’t want the 15,000 TEAM members reading the internal TEAM blog to go searching for “Orrin Woodward Anonymous Blogging” would he now?

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 20, 2011 12:19 pm

    That is so laughable, classic, and predictable! I too wonder now why wouldn’t he want the ‘followers’ to know, hmmm…. is right. His action continues to solidify; that anyone with any common sense could see what we already to be true.

    This is what that tells me: HE IS NOT SORRY, not an ounce of remorse (expected) and KNOWS he will have to stop rallying his troops around the bashing of nameless, faceless, cowards, because when they find out not only was He an ANONYMOUS BLOGGER, but a vicious, foul, slanderous, vindictive, and hateful one!

    What an undeniable HYPOCRITE and the lack of character he displays. IT isn’t possible to FOOL all the people ALL the time! As I said before it isn’t us who have done anything besides warn and share the truth, even though he continues to blame everyone else, he is self destructing and he has earned by HIS OWN ACTIONS, the reputation he has, it is just too bad he doesn’t accept the responsiblity.

  14. Barb permalink
    August 20, 2011 6:33 pm

    On the Team website, I read a few comments Team members left about Orrin’s 5 Principles…

    “It is very clear by this post that someone has an opinion very different than ours about our (TEAM’S) purpose. My belief, now that I have plugged into an entirely different education program, is that who ever may have a negative opinion about our purpose has a victim mentallity and very low self esteem.” – Brian & Sherry Powers

    Why is it that if someone has an opposing opinion that person automatically has a “victim mentality and very low self esteem”?? Is it POSSIBLE that someone has an opposing opinion and has a winning attitude and a very high self esteem?? YES. I love how the team members are brain washed (I know because I was one of them) to the point of attacking EVERYONE with an opposing opinion if it isn’t 100% in agreement with what the upline is promoting. This is the SAME mentality that washes away family and friends, I know from personal experience… and if you are on Team and have NOT experienced this yet, thats ONLY because you’re not a leader yet and you don’t run with the inner circle. Mark my words, one day you’ll know what I’m saying to be TRUE.

    A GOOD EXAMPLE is George Guzzardo’s comment “If you thought that ‘Apple’ or “Face Book’ has made an impact, you haven’t seen anything yet.”… Are you serious George!?

    The sheer NERVE and AUDACITY of this guy, what an INSULT to Apple and FaceBook… Oh, and if anyone disagrees… “they must have a victim mentallity and very low self esteem”.

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 1:32 am

    How cult leaders and other clever operators get people to do their bidding, there are no secret drugs or potions. IT IS JUST WORDS AND GROUP PRESSURES PUT TOGETHER IN PACKAGED FORM. The masterful con artist of today have hit upon a way to put the techniques together in packages that are especially successful. As a result, thought reform, as a form of influence and persuasion, falls on the extreme end of a continuum. ~ Packaged Persuasion

    Brainwashing is not experienced as a fever or pain; it is an invisible social adaption. When you are the subject of it, you are not aware of the intent of the influence processes that are going on, and especially, you are not aware of the changes taking place within you.

    A thought reform program is not a one-shot event but a gradual process of breaking down and transformation. These systematic manipulations of social and psychological influences under particular conditions are called programs because the means by which change is brought about is coordinated.

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 1:40 am

    Singers 6 Conditions:

    [Editor’s Note: Consolidated @Speak Your Truth’s comments into one comment. Information from “Cults in our Midst” ~Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich.]

    The following conditions create the atmosphere needed to put thought-reform processes into place. The degree to which these conditions are present increases the level of restrictiveness enforced by the cult and the overall effectiveness of the program.

    (1)Keep the person unaware that there is an agenda to control or change the person.

    Imagine you are the person being influenced. You find yourself in an environment to which you are forced to adapt in a series of steps, each sufficiently minor so that you don’t notice the changes in yourself and do not become aware of the goals of the program until late in the process (if ever).

    The process of keeping people unaware is key to a cult’s double agenda: the leader slowly takes you through a series of events that on the surface look like one agenda, while on another level, the real agenda is to get you the recruit or member to obey and to give up your autonomy, your past affiliations, and your belief systems. The existence of the double agenda makes this process one of non-informed consent.

    (2) Control Time & Physical Environment (contacts and information)

    Cults don’t need you to move into the commune, farm, headquarters, or ashram and live within the cult environment twenty-four hrs a day in order to have control over you. They can control you just as effectively by having you go to work every day with instructions that when not working—on your lunch hour, for example—you must do continuous mind-occupying; some cult activity. Then after work, you must put all your time in with the organization.

    (3)Create a sense of powerlessness, fear and dependency.

    Cults create this sense of powerlessness by stripping you of your support system and your ability to act independently. Former friends and kinship networks are taken away. You, the recruit or followers, are isolated from your ordinary environments and sometimes removed to remote locations.

    Another way cults create a sense of powerlessness is by stripping people of their main occupation and sources of wealth. It is to achieve this condition that so many cultic organizations have members drop out of school, quit their jobs, or give up their careers, and turn over their property, inheritances, and other resources to the organization. It is one of the steps in creating a sense of dependency on the organization and a continuing sense of individual powerlessness.

    (4)Suppress old behavior and attitudes.

    Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person’s former social identity. The expression of your beliefs, values, activities, and characteristic demeanor prior to contact with the group is suppressed, and you are manipulated into taking on a social identity preferred by the leadership. Old beliefs and old patterns of behavior are defined as irrelevant, if not evil. You quickly learn that leadership wants old ideas and old patterns eliminated, so you suppress them.

    (5)Instill new behavior and attitudes

    Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning of the group’s ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors. Once immersed in an environment in which you are totally dependent on the rewards given by those who control the setting, you can be confronted with massive demands to learn varying amounts of new information and behaviors. You are rewarded for proper performance with social and sometimes material reinforcement; if slow to learn or noncompliant, you are threatened with shunning, banning, and punishment which include loss of esteem from others, loss of privileges, loss of status, and inner anxiety and guilt.

    The more complicated and filled with contradictions the new system is and the more difficult it is to learn, the more effective the conversion process will be.

    Only long-term members know the complex and ever-changing rules, and they end up literally leading and pushing the new recruits through the game. Then this is followed by a very simple exercise in which members get together to “share.” Older members stand up and share (that is confess) some past bad deed. The newer members, who failed so badly at the bewildering dodge-ball game, now can feel capable of succeeding by simply getting up and confessing something about their past that was, by group standards, bad.

    Since esteem and affection from peers is so important to new recruits, any negative response is very meaningful. Approval comes from having your behaviors and thought patterns conform to the models put forth by the group. Your relationship is threatened whenever you fail to learn or display new behaviors. Over time, an easy solution to the insecurity generated by the difficulties of learning the new system is to inhibit any display of doubt and, even if you don’t understand the content, to merely acquiesce, affirm, and act as if you do understand and accept the new philosophy or content.

    (6)Put forth a closed system of logic. (allow no real input or criticism)

    Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order. If you criticize or complain, the leader or peers allege that you are defective, not the organization. In this closed system of logic, you are not allowed to question or doubt a tenet or rule or to call attention to factual information that suggests some internal contradiction within the belief system or a contradiction with what you have been told. If you do make such observations, they may be turned around and argued to mean the opposite of what you intended. You are made to feel that you are wrong. In cultic groups, the individual member is always wrong, and the system is always right.

    An example: a woman objected to her fund-raising team leader that it would be lying to people to say cult members were collecting money for a children’s home when they knew the money went to the leader’s headquarters. She was told, “That’s evidence of your degraded mentality. You are restoring to our leader what’s rightfully his, that’s all!”

    The goal of all this is your conversion or remolding. As you learn to modify your former behaviors in order to be accepted in this closed and controlled environment, you change. You affirm that you accept and understand the ideology by beginning to talk in the simple catchphrases particular to the group. This ‘communication” has no foundation since, in reality, you have little understanding of the system beyond the catchphrases. But once you begin to express your seeming verbal acceptance of the group’s ideology, then that ideology becomes the rule book for the subsequent direction and evaluation of your behavior.

    Also, using your new language fosters your separation from your old conscience and belief system. Your new language allows you to justify activities that are clearly not in your interests, perhaps not even in the interests of humankind. Precisely, those behaviors that lead to criticism from the outside world because they violate the norms and rules of the society as a whole are rationalized within the cult community through use of this new terminology, this new language.

  17. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    August 21, 2011 5:33 am

    Great post Speak. Man I can see myself there. So sad. If I may ask, where did you get that from?

  18. get a life permalink
    August 21, 2011 7:22 am

    Are any of you guys christians?

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 8:40 am

    Steve~ “Cults in our Midst” ~Margaret Thaler Singer with Janja Lalich.

    I could have used examples of every single condition but I believe the ‘long- term memebers’ when reading will remember how this all fits. I might give some more information. 🙂

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 8:47 am

    Barb~ This statement decribes it all:

    “My belief, now that I have plugged into an entirely different education program, is that who ever may have a negative opinion about our purpose has a victim mentallity and very low self esteem.” – Brian & Sherry Powers

    The key words: “MY belief, NOW;” obviously through that “entirely different education program” something changed the beliefs, what would the beliefs have been without that ‘program?’

    Yes indeed, it is entirely different alright! 🙂

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 8:57 am

    I would love to see others use their examples of how the ‘program’ is used by their experience! 🙂

  22. August 21, 2011 9:44 am

    @get a life: Some are. Some aren’t. What does it matter?

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 10:08 am

    Amthrax~ You are the best! That makes it much clearer, thanks! 🙂

  24. get a life permalink
    August 21, 2011 11:03 am

    That explains it all thankyou. 🙂

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 11:09 am

    Get a life~ Are you a part of, and follower of, or the Team PC, who have done many unethical, immoral, and illegal things?

    That explains it all thank you. 😉

  26. August 21, 2011 11:16 am

    @Barb – Thanks for the comments. One suggestion, however. I’ve noticed that several comments using different names have been coming in from the same IP address. I don’t have a problem with you using a pseudonym, but it would help everyone if you posted using one handle moving forward.

  27. No Team For Me permalink
    August 21, 2011 12:06 pm

    Get a Life – Can’t speak for others, but as for myself, yes I am a strong Christian. Which is one of the things that began to make me question being around TEAM. How could I continue to look the other way while people used what I call ‘Convenient Christianity’ (attempting to involk Christianity and use scripture only when it serves their best interest, but behind the scenes having actions which are in direct conflict)?

    In the words of Orrin himself – “Applying Law to others but grace to themselves.”

    It seemed very manipulative to begin on offense by quoting scripture often in an attempt to keep the masses from questioning leaders. Who would dare question someone with Christian principles? The problem is – quoting scriptures does not make one a better Christian. Don’t forget, Satan himself attempted to use scripture to tempt Christ.

    I usually find that the more someone has to quote scripture and keep telling others how Christian they are, the higher the red flag that they are not living life as they claim. If a couple is truly in love, they don’t say how in love they are in every conversation. People can tell by their actions and the way they live their life.

    A true Christian won’t need to tell everyone what a Christian they are. People can see by the way they live their life. If they are going overboard quoting and telling everyone, they are probably trying to cover something up.

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 1:58 pm

    No Team for Me~

    I agree 100% and You hit the nail on the head.

    Another thing that is offensive is when someone comes out of no where, questions others Christianity without any given reason to question it.Then it became obvious by the final assumption, that it was a judgement on every person on here, by impling or game playing a ‘guilt’ ridden and judgemental message.

    I’m am.Not sure what or how that conclusion got drawn; other than the obvious of the games being played,

    It is nothing but an attempt to accuse and judge without saying it. Is this a Christian thing to do?

    So one could then question, is the person playing games, making judgements and assumptions with others; a Christian?

    Robert Lifton talks about eight themes ( which I will post) that is quoted in “Cults in Our Midst” one of the 8 themes is the “Demand for purity” it is An us-vs-them orientation is promoted by an ALL-or-Nothing belief system of the group; “we are right the (outsiders, nonmembers) are wrong, evil, unenlightened,” (“UnChristian”) and so forth…..

  29. Samantha permalink
    August 21, 2011 4:17 pm

    get a life,

    Yes I am a Christian, and I have to thank the Woodwards personally for leading my husband and I to christianity. Unfortunately over the years I believe the Woodwards’ “success” has perverted their desire to live christian lives. I believe they, like many compulsive liars, have told so many lies that they sometimes believe their own baloney. They believe that their cause is so noble and pure that true christian living doesn’t really apply to them–sort of like the ends justify the means. If they have to lie to get people into the fold, well, it’s worth it in the end.

    Are you somehow implying that because we are verbalizing anger and frustration at being lied to, cheated, and deceived, we are in conflict with christianity? Is it somehow more christian to remain quiet while knowing that full-scale deception is being purported upon thousands of people? Interesting.

  30. Dorothy permalink
    August 21, 2011 5:00 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  31. Lyk permalink
    August 21, 2011 8:33 pm

    Okay I understand that everyone is trying there best to speak there truths but Having all this negativity between one another isn’t good. Everything is so skewed in here that I don’t trust this blog but I like to read simply for benefit of the doubt..

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 21, 2011 11:05 pm


    You know; How many times are you going to come on and say you don’t trust this blog but yet you continue to come back? All this negativity? Are you speaking of those who come here form the team and are negative and name calling? Because we are here for a difference reason. Yes you are correct we are here telling the truth, I don’t understand what it is you do not understand? Could you explain why you keep coming back when you don’t trust us and you obviously don’t just read because you continue to comment.

    I do have a solution, tell all your liefers to either address the issues when they show up here, and pretend we are all your prospects and I bet you will get to read some positive. 🙂

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 22, 2011 12:48 am


    That is a great post on the cult information and the studies, how scary but true and having experienced the same environment, it is very obvious to me too. And I know you are aware of the same, and until you start to study this realm of undue influence and thought reform you really can’t put a finger on the process. It sure has and continues to open my eyes, and again I agree it is very disturbing to say the least.

    Samatha~ I too could see the change in the Woodwards, when their ‘success/greed’ started. The end justifies the means, would be their motto and have seen this in more ways than one.

    Dorothy~ Great post! You are right they do not screen people by religion or wouldn’t sign someone up because they didn’t think they were Christian. We know that is not one of the questions when speaking to a prospect, it is the double agenda, so why then would they ask anyone else?
    You nailed it.

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 25, 2011 8:04 pm


    I couldn’t help myself and quite frankly was pretty surprised with these comments. I wasn’t sure in what thread this was the most fitting, Although this thread is about Orrin’s ‘principles’ and the LIEF/TEAM takes pride in touting to the world that they have the BEST leadership, lief training and Culture, that is of such Christian based principles.

    Here is a copy of 2 of the most recent comments from LM site that was under an Orrin Woodward thread. What leadership principle or PROFESSIONAL training is being taught to these folks? This is an example of many that have to put up with from those who disagree with them and the Team. Enough is Enough of this abuse, and there is some who wonder why we don’t welcome people with open arms?

    f**kyouman says:

    August 24, 2011 at 6:34 am


    iwishyouwouldshutup says:

    August 19, 2011 at 5:58 am

    seriously… put your energy towards something positive. the past is the past. get over it and get a life.

  35. switch permalink
    August 25, 2011 8:11 pm

    Don’t you love the tempers flaring? Such a professional way of representing the team.

    I know Marks would probably be proud……

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 25, 2011 8:36 pm

    I know the pro-liefers aren’t always this crude and vulgar, but the majority are nasty, name calling and bashing. It seems they are getting angier.

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 25, 2011 8:44 pm

    Switch~ What did you think of their inspiring moniker’s?

  38. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 25, 2011 8:54 pm


    Have you seen the Teamscam website, it has a full page message that says;

    (with a big skull)

    What do you make of this and is this site one of JS?

    And then gives an email at the bottom?

  39. switch permalink
    August 25, 2011 10:11 pm

    I do have to agree that most are not all like this but yes, the tempers are flaring. Let them flare….what are they going to do, tell everyone that we’re sitting back and criticizing this so called “wonderful opportunity”? ……. “better sit down”, how many years has it been now for them agian? Who’s critizicing the TRUTH? THEY ARE! Ever notice that how when they fly off the handle like that, what are they doing???? Criticizing the TRUTH!!!! It looks very ugly for them doesn’t it?

    I’d rather watch the bozo show with bozo and cookie handing out their prizes rather than snoring at some Tuesday night open.

  40. August 25, 2011 10:26 pm

    @Speak – LazyMan talks about it in his latest blog post. He does speculate if one of the MLM companies attempted to hack his site, but he doesn’t have any proof as far as I know.

  41. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    August 26, 2011 3:29 pm

    Speak your Truth – Thanks for your thoughts and information about “thought reform programs”. I finally read through the TEAM comments on the EBC related to Orrin’s recent blog entry and couldn’t help but feel the need to post one in particular below, which was consistent with almost all of the others on the site. Sadly, I myself may have written this post a few short years ago. These were the exact same kind of thoughts that slowly became ingrained in me from the “system” and were one of the reasons that I came to subconsciously know that any critical questions for my upline were taboo (which of course was proven when I tried to leave due to certain concerns I had). Why question our leadership, who had unparallelled integrity and wisdom the world over? Of course, none of the leadership ever stopped this type of praise (deification?) and said, wait – I appreciate your comments, but really all glory goes to God. It is not I who built myself into a Statesmen, History-Maker, Earth-Shaker, World-Changer and … Leadership Guru and New York Times best selling author!!

    I give you the quote verbatim below. Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

    “Orrin,You have rocked my world with your integrity and your character. I have never met or heard of a big business owner who is so genuine in his priorities. You may have started out motivated mostly by money, but along the path to true success you have metamorphosed into a servant-leader, who legitimately views things in their proper perspective.PEOPLE will always come before money in importance, and especially in the LION HEARTS of true Statesmen, History-Makers, Earth-Shakers, and World-Changers. You & Laurie, Chris and Terri, and the others by your side, are incontrovertibly the personified essence of all of those terms.I haven’t earned a dime yet, but I have already reaped priceless changes and awakenings within my own heart, thanks to your intrepid vision and your indefatigable stamina in the face of this world’s opposition and negativity.”Thank You” just would not cut it, for words are cheap if not mirrored by analogous actions. I will thank you by joining your side in your mission, which is now my mission as well. You will be seeing me soon.”

    [Editor’s note: added blockquote for separation and readability]

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 26, 2011 6:39 pm

    Used to be ‘all in’~

    I am glad that the thought reform information helped you, let us know if there is anything else that will help you. 🙂

    The comment I had posted (the vulgar pro-lie-fer one a few up from yours) and the one you posted depicts the undeniable contrast and also the “US vs THEM,” that cults create, the (mis) Leaders create this between them and the outside world.

    They ‘fire- people-up’ with these messages during their talks on and off stage about critics or whatever the objection of the day they are having problems with. They ‘plant the seeds’, with some very loud and a surge of ‘passion’ to get these messages across, use different cadences in their voice, creates a hypnotic message.

    Those messages are what they want the followers to believe and they CLEARLY show up in the lie-fers responses, whether it be to the ‘critics’ or Orrin; the idol worshipping that we see by your post. Thanks for posting that; I believe it is a perfect example of the idol worshipping and is very disturbing.

    This is NOT edification= (just saying something nice), it is clearly WAY more.

    Forgive me if you have already written your critical questions to your upline, that you speak of above; are they in a post already and I am not remembering them, could you let me know where in your posts those are? And if you didn’t, would you share those you asked your upline? Thanks. 🙂

  43. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    August 27, 2011 8:01 am

    Speak your Truth – I’d love to share what all of my critical questions were to my upline, but unfortunately I don’t feel comfortable doing that at this time since I don’t want them to be able to identify me, based on the specifics of what I went through. I think if people read through this site, however, Amthrax has done a pretty good job covering most of them 🙂

    Hope you can understand.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    August 27, 2011 11:13 am

    Used to be “all-in”~

    I totally understand, not worries. 🙂 Unfortunately, we all have things that prevent us from sharing things for identiy reasons. That could change though, when this thing crashes completely.


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