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Search Engine Terms of the Week

September 8, 2011

Here’s another batch of search engine terms from the past seven days:

“living intentionally for excellence”, “living for excellence”, “living intentionally for excellence scam”, “living for excellence scam”, “life living intentionally for excellence a hoax?”, “is team-life a scam ?”, “life team monavie scam”, team life scam, “living intentionally for excellence is this a pyramid scheme”, “orrin woodward scam” and “team monavie scam”

So many variations on the same search term! People definitely have their defenses up when approached by a TEAM LIFE member. I personally think TEAM/LIFE/MonaVie are very bad business opportunities, and there are others that think the same.

“ex-team woodward”

You’ve come to the right place to read thousands of comments from Ex-TEAM members. There are many posts about TEAM and Orrin Woodward on this blog.

“living intentionally for excellence cult” and “orrin woodward cult”

Orrin will say that you’re free to come and go from TEAM, but they sure make it hard with all of the love bombing and FUD they heap on you. They make it seem like any alternative to TEAM LIFE is a living hell. Join TEAM, and you will succeed. Quit TEAM, and you are a loser. If you join, you may find yourself shunning your friends and family (who don’t want to get involved). Your only “friends” will be other TEAM members. You may find yourself listening only to your upline.

“how many sponsorships do you need to make money in team orrin woodward”, how do you make money in team orrin and “compensation life monavie orrin”

Detailed information about LIFE’s compensation plan is not yet available. Orrin Woodward has stated on his blog that if you find three people to pay $50/month for LIFE materials, you’ll earn enough bonuses to pay for your own purchases. Since TEAM hasn’t started, the two ways to make money are through MonaVie or by becoming a TEAM Director. Making money selling $40/bottle of juice is harder than it sounds, and TEAM Directors are not allowed (yet) to mention the income that comes from being a Director.

“did renee ottinger leave team”

Renée has been speaking at Open Meetings as of a few months. Has something changed?

“how many people are on the te.a.m. orrin woodward?”

According to Orrin, about 15,000 members are on TEAM, a far cry from the 60,000 figure mentioned in the Forbes article back in 2008. For those counting, that’s well under one million people.

“rené paquin team”

Uh oh and watch out, René. I think someone upline heard about you posting on this blog and is looking for your comments.

“orrin leaving monavie” and “what is going on with monavie and team”

According to my sources, MonaVie is becoming less of a focus for TEAM in its weekly and monthly meetings (if it ever was the primary focus). Orrin Woodward would like you to think that MonaVie is here to stay with the way he praises Dallin Larsen, but read between the lines, and you may come to the conclusion that MonaVie is on its way out of TEAM’s LIFE.

“visalus and orrin woodward”

Uh oh! Is someone thinking Orrin is going to jump the MonaVie ship and start selling Visalus?

Speaking of Visalus, here’s another search term:

“what does brig hart say about visalus”

Somehow, I don’t think Brig says nice things about Visalus nor his friends who left R3Global and MonaVie to go to Visalus.

“orrin qrush”, “qrush orrin woodward”, “orrin woodward qrush?”, “orrin woodward being qrush” and “orrin woodward and qrush”

This site would like to think that Orrin Woodward was behind the anonymous blogger called Qrush. Furthermore, it’s pretty clear that Orrin was the instigators of several more anonymous blogs supporting Amway/Quixtar back in 2004-2006 and attacking Amway/Quixtar in 2007-2008. Orrin himself states on his blog that he once engaged in anonymous blogging, though he left out any relevant details. Why is this important? Because it will demonstrate that he’s the antithesis of the image that he likes to project to his members. When the emperor has no clothes, it’s time to leave.

“orrin woodward critics”

You’ve come to the right place to read posts that are critical of Orrin Woodward’s business practices and TEAM/LIFE and MonaVie business.

“orrin woodward forbes” and “forbes 2008 article of orrin woodward”

Look no further than the actual Forbes article on Orrin Woodward.

“is orrin woodward a mormon”

No, Orrin is a Protestant Christian. What denomination, I’m not sure, but he used to attend Berean Baptist Church in Michigan.

“team depth sling squeeze side action stacks”

Clearly, this person is looking for this article on TEAM’s stacking technique called Sling, Squeeze and Side Action.

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34 Comments leave one →
  1. September 8, 2011 5:11 am

    Wow, this is amazing!!!! I’m glad more people are waking up and doing research on TEAM. When I first joined TEAM, I was told ***NOT*** to do outside research, only listen to what TEAM has to say. Big red flag there, so I’m glad people are doing research on both sides of the story now, not just the one side that TEAM wants you to see.

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 8, 2011 6:42 am

    Great Article! Thanks for Posting it!

    I agree with Izzy and as someone who was searching and found their way to this site said; “The internet is a beautiful thing.” When we began the journey into the illusion from Hell, we were not so fortunate, we didn’t have these experiences, to read and learn from. And as the saying goes..It is better to learn from experience…someone Else’s.

  3. not signed up yet permalink
    September 8, 2011 8:30 am

    Izzy, that’s interesting. I was encouraged to research Monvavie/TEAM and I got a ton of of stuff from them but it was their controlled info. A simple search turned up the Forbes article and that was it. Its amazing how TEAm dismisses that article and wont even look at it.

    I tried finding out about TEAM form people I met at meetings…even some big local leader gurus. Problem was, they all sounded like the CDs and every one of them fed me the same bs. No original thought at all.

    I was told early on not to believe the negative stuff about team. My response was, nope. I need to see the good and bad and I will make my own decision.

  4. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 8, 2011 9:47 am

    not signed up yet~

    That is one of the reasons you don’t ‘cross-line’, what Izzy is told by her dictator, would, could be and is different than your’s… LHOL 🙂

    They continuously tout they have a “proven- duplicate-able system,” but the PC’s all have their ego’s that are larger than life, and some for example; Ours, rarely ever did things the way it was taught and because of this; when the information flows from Orrin and down, it gets distorted, confuses people etc, don’t forget Orrin is the ‘top’ dictator, it just doesn’t always work that way, and is not suppose to be the way a hiearchy dictatorship works. :/

    If the PC doesn’t like what Orrin tells them, then they just do it their way and pass it down in the groups from what they see as ‘their way’, the best and only way.

    Here is an example; a big builder/leader on our team went to a seminar and the Martin’s were speaking. The Martin’s FROM stage taught something to the Entire seminar; specific techniques that they were doing that were ‘ effectively getting results’ (when no one else was or were struggling to, when people first went to MV) and we ALL know, there wasn’t a one of them who knew that built it, so these leaders came back from the seminar and started implementing this in their teams.

    But because our PC is a major Control Freak and is such a narcissistic, egomaniac; intellectually smarter than everyone else (legend in their own mind), he bashed the Martin’s, said they weren’t ‘movin on’ and told these leaders to NOT do this!

    How would this PC KNOW about that ‘cross-lines’ business? Do they discuss other ‘cross-line’ businesses in their PC meetings? Another double standard…thought it was NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS?

    So therefore, it begs the question, WHY would ANYONE PAY to go listen to a ‘cross-line’ leader at any seminar and ‘TEACH’ what they are doing to the masses? IF this is what their culture is NOT suppose to be learning from and HOW is this “duplicate-able?”

    They wonder why people despise what they do and how controlling they are, they are like communistic dictators; in my opinion. If you bring this up to Orrin, that one of ‘HIS’ so called leaders is stabbing other leaders in the back, well then YOU are the jealous one! Sick, sick, sick….

    Then you have Orrin continuously promote these leaders from every stage as if they are bigger than life (well, not bigger than him; there isn’t anyone that BIG, OF course); that are stabbing the other leaders in the back!

    In my opinion… just a sick and twisted cult.

    Thanks for reminding me of my ‘WHY’.

  5. Barb permalink
    September 8, 2011 10:42 pm

    Orrin changed the name of Team of Destiny (TOD) to just ‘TEAM’ to avoid the ‘negative’ websites online. If you googled “Team of Destiny” it lead you to the truth. If you googled “TEAM” you retrieved over 1 Billion finds… too hard to find the TRUTH. When you showed the plan to a new prospect… sponsoring them became a “science”. We knew if they went online or spoke to someone (family member, friend) between the time you showed them the plan and the follow through (24-48hrs) your chances of sponsoring them decreased from 80% to 15-20% because they would either hear or read the truth or start to think ‘logical’ and your sponsor rate would drop substantially. Therefore the technique was to tell them after the plan at the first meeting just before you walked out the door;

    “Listen Joe, don’t do what I did (ha-ha) I talked to friends and family members immediately after I saw this plan and because I didn’t know enough to FULLY explain the idea to them, they didn’t understand, they thought it was a pyramid scam and when I learned that this was the FARTHEST thing from a pyramid or scam, I couldn’t interest them to listen at that point, and I don’t want you to waste your list… So DON’T TALK TO ANYONE BEFORE I GET BACK TOGETHER WITH YOU. JUST READ AND LISTEN TO THE INFORMATION I LEAVE YOU.”

    This is how the process began to get the new prospect on the TEAM. From here, he MOST important thing was to get them to a hotel meeting ($5), then to a monthly seminar ($30) and after a few monthly seminars… then to a major seminar ($200 +). At this point you knew you had a ‘player’ and your TEAM was more stabilized. I did this talk 1000 times and it worked 80% of the time. Looking back I now realize, if this opportunity was as good as the leaders say it really is… why did we have to work SO HARD to CONVINCE someone it was a good thing???

  6. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    September 9, 2011 7:54 am

    Barb – Great comment! That is exactly my experience as well. The words I was taught to end the plan with were almost verbatim to what you wrote above. As the system teaches (“Captain Obvious” CD and elsewhere), if you’re having problems sponsoring, go back one step from where you’re having the issue and “correct” it there. So if I had issues booking a follow through (second meeting) with a prospect, I had to go back to my first show the plan meeting and start handling the future objection there so I don’t have to argue a new point at the subsequent follow through. You give them the statement that you said above, and this way if they still check online or talk to a friend and get the truth, you can say “I told you that would happen” and HOPE that you could talk them back in. Once they have a few more CD’s in them or have been around the “environment”, they’re hooked.

  7. John permalink
    September 9, 2011 8:09 am

    Barb, you are right on with your comments. The reality of this business is that the turn over rate is very high every three months or so. The Team leaders refer to this as the churn. The only way to sustain your business is to continually keep grinding through new people. I ask myself “How do those few who seem to make this work for a little while do it?” And the answer is that they have to lie and deceive and tell the new prospects and members things that are not true to get them to join. Once a person is in for a while it becomes harder to quit because they don’t want to admit that they have been wasting time and money on a scam. It is hard also to admit that their family and friends were right about warning them to not get involved with Team. Eventually the Team becomes a cult to these people who have stayed in so long. They have heard the Team leaders edified so often that they now think they are celebrities. The whole stinking mess is a shameful abuse of people.

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 9, 2011 8:45 am

    Thanks for bringing more to the light, what an accurate and shameful game it is; great posts from all.

    John,

    “The whole stinking mess is a shameful abuse of people.”

    So true, how sad and damaging; this destructive cult is…

  9. billy permalink
    September 9, 2011 11:10 am

    A couple things – Renee has not left TEAM.
    Secondly, the way TEAM operates in it’s training is similar to what the company I work for does. I work in sales for a privately-owned company on the east coast, and our training structure matches the TEAM system almost identically.

    The veteran sales leaders hold weekly meetings to teach how to handle objections from customers. We are encouraged to seek outside training to assist with our job (one of the reasons I signed with TEAM). We often have to buy updated sales training aids to keep us up-to-date with product/marketing changes, and we can recruit people we know to work for our company and earn a percentage of their sales commissions.

    There are plenty of other businesses out there in the direct selling/MLM/network marketing field. Many top sales leaders in those businesses work with Orrin to help increase the size of their company (Art Jonak, for example). Do you guys dislike the entire profession, TEAM, Orrin specifically?

  10. not signed up yet permalink
    September 9, 2011 1:59 pm

    Barb and All In

    So how did you guys keep going knowing that the “system” is seriously flawed and that you had to deceive people to get them in and addicted to the tools/meetings?

    I saw the pattern very early on. Opens, push the monthly, at the monthly push the major, at the major push the opens and repeat.

    I picked up on this after about the 3rd open I went to.

    It really annoyed me at the opens when they were on one topic and would suddenly just start pushing the major, or a book or a cd. At least stay on topic. At the july monthly, the speaker was talking about the 8 fs and got through five of them before pushing the major. She went back to the 6th f, and then just stopped and brought out her husband to tell his story.

    These people may be great leaders and that’s even questionable, but they are lousy speakers.

  11. September 9, 2011 2:36 pm

    @billy – Who produces the sales training aids that you have to buy to stay up-to-date with your product/marketing changes? Do your sales leaders get a cut of those profits?

    Thank you for the clarification on Renee. Obviously, people are searching to see if she’s still with TEAM or not.

    If you read enough of this blog, you’ll find many ex-TEAM members who have a problem with all three – the entire MLM profession, TEAM, and Orrin!

  12. not signed up yet permalink
    September 9, 2011 4:53 pm

    Billy

    Does your sales organization make you sign contracts you aren’t allowed to read?

    Demand your absolute loyalty?

    Demand almost all of your time be devoted for them?

    Demand that you praise people above you even if they are people with no ethics and integrity?

    Does your sales force artificially inflate numbers at meeting and majors? Tell you that you are seeing growth when the facts are the organization is in decline?

    Re- brand itself when people find out the truth?

    There’s more, but TEAM does all of this. Its fact and can be confirmed and verified.

    I have seen it and others here have experienced it personally. We’re not on TEAM so we have the freedom to observe, criticize, and voice our opinions about TEAM and Orrin.

    Our concerns our legitimate, and as Amthrax has stated many times, current TEAM members are welcome here too.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 9, 2011 6:30 pm

    billy~

    Give it time….You will figure it out.

  14. billy permalink
    September 9, 2011 9:48 pm

    @Amthrax: About half of the sales aids are a cumulation of field experience in our company and the rest are “recommended” books and audios from outside sources. To my knowledge, our company’s sales leaders don’t get a cut of the profits, but the corporation sure does as they compile the data, print and sell to their associates.

    @not signed up yet: I did have to sign a non-compete and privacy agreement at orientation and each year a revised version of the same document in order to keep my job. We are given the opportunity to read them over, but no one does. I have a hard time believing TEAM members aren’t allowed to read the docs, from a legal standpoint.
    Loyalty and time demands are a given, seeing as they are the employer.
    The management team receives company-wide recognition for a job well done and I don’t think I’ve ever seen growth numbers for my company.

    It seems as though there are plenty of parallels between TEAM and corporate America, beside the obvious, of course, but no one ever tried to talk me out of working in that environment.
    I joined TEAM for their system info to help me do my job better, not to run as a business. I don’t do the MonaVie auto-ship, but I have purchased a case of the Emv, which I quite like. So far, I’ve met a bunch of nice people and have gotten my hands on some materials I otherwise wouldn’t have.
    It sucks that some people have had bad experiences with the opportunity because I can see the value in it for someone who isn’t happy with their current situation. For many people, that business is going to be their shot for a better quality of life. Who are you to try to talk them out of it? If they want to play the game, let them. That’s how I see it, anyway.

  15. Hershall Sweet permalink
    September 10, 2011 12:22 am

    It’s certain that many people hit this blog with questions about their introduction to Mona Vie, L.I.F.E., Team or Orrin Woodward. Like we’re reminded at Team events – the fact that you’re looking for something different means you’re different than most people out there. So if they look at the opportunity that they’ve seen and they weigh in the information they get here from people who have been down the road they’re interested in following, they’ll come to the conclusion that there must be a better way. (Strange how that’s the tag line of the ads running on the L.I.F.E. website).
    Many of those that leave comments on the ideas offered by Amthrax talk about more traditional businesses, “real” business education and metrics to track real progress. It would be great to discuss these opportunities. (Although the direct association of each opportunity with each commenter may be less than desirable)
    As an example from another thread here, Amthrax pointed me toward “Lazy Man and Money”. I spent just a bit of time digesting information there and found what they called “side hustles”. Food for thought for someone looking for something.

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 10, 2011 7:45 am

    Hershall Sweet~

    Hershall states: “Like we’re reminded at Team events – the fact that you’re looking for something different means you’re different than most people out there.”

    People aren’t ‘looking for something different;’ they are looking to make money.

    That is how the ‘opprotunity is sold’ but once you have registered and sit in an ‘event’, then they get ‘reminded’ they never were there for the origninal reason you sold them on..to make money. It becomes a game of ‘convincing’ it is so much more, don’t worry about the money that will come…..and we know for more than the 99% the only thing that comes is loss.

    The Team ‘reminds’ (persuades) people of that because the system is designed to fail for 99% of those you say; are ‘looking for something different.’ They sell that bill of goods because they are fully aware of this fact and Need people to buy into ‘something different’ so they won’t focus on what they are really looking for in the first place.

    They have to distract….It is called deception, and coercive persuassion.

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 10, 2011 7:49 am

    It’s different alright…. considered a deceptive fraud; from my years of experience.

  18. not signed up yet permalink
    September 10, 2011 2:48 pm

    Wait a minute, Billy…when you sing on to TEAM you are an IBO. So how can TEAM be your employer?

    I was flat out told that there are no bosses in TEAM, but that’s what your upline and mentors , excuse me handlers are.

    I think this is the wrong organization for what you are looking to do. I have listened to 30 CDs form the trunk. And there is nothing about how to actually improve your life and apply principles but will hear a lot about improving things for TEAM.

    The system is seriously flawed, but hopefully you will pick up on that after a while.

    I know about non compete agreements, I ahve signed a few of em my self. What about the agreement you need to sign that says never criticize the TEAM. from Orrins mouth…anyone who criticizes or talks negative about TEAM doesn’t deserve to be paid.

    I couldn’t believe stuff I was hearing about TEAM either until I saw it in practice with my own eyes. I would hear something this blog and think TEAM isn’t doing that, until the next open or webcast and TEAM confirmed it for me.

    Ask TEAM about their operations and business model and target markets and profit margins. You will into get an answer. I asked these questions of my sponsor and his upline and never got a good answer.

  19. billy permalink
    September 10, 2011 10:33 pm

    @not signed up yet: When I say employer, I mean my actual employer. How many other comments on this site have you misinterpreted? I’m beginning to think the cynics on this site are salty because they couldn’t make it themselves.
    I just got word that the Smiths from Pennsylvania just broke a new rank and numerous others are en route to Policy Council. It looks like this business model is working for someone.
    I personally haven’t signed anything from TEAM and probably won’t, as I’m not building the business. The LIFE deal seems intriguing though. The guy who told me about TEAM is pretty excited about it. I really hope he does well.

  20. Dorothy permalink
    September 10, 2011 11:27 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  21. Dorothy permalink
    September 10, 2011 11:37 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 11, 2011 8:35 am

    Perhaps Billy should stop speaking in the notorious team circles with his double messages, and start saying what he means, rather than questioning someone ‘misinterpreting’ his messages.

    Billy you say; “For many people, that business is going to be their shot for a better quality of life. Who are you to try to talk them out of it?”

    No-one is ‘trying’ to talk ‘many people’ out of their only ‘shot for a better quality of life’, the truth is being shared about what we experienced and know will for the most part destroy the ‘many people’s’, quality of life; that is it…it then it becomes for the ‘many people’ to decide for themselves.

    Who are we you ask?

    We are Leaders who DID build the buisness along with team office staff who have experience in building and behind the scenes; that collectively; dedicated YEARS (probably over a century) and EXPERIENCE of building the business who put in ten’s of thousands or more in the coarse of years, who were up close an personal to the PC, who brought millions of dollars of revenue for their lifestyles that you see them enticing the ‘many people’ with.
    We have been slander, lied to and about, stolen from and cheated, have had our teams disassembled, divided and destructed along with relationships, severed, and damaged, we have been ‘used’ in many ways for the ’cause’ and benefit of the Team. So if we ‘appear’ cynical to you, then I think now you have a better understanding.

    Did that answer your question?

    Now I have some questions for you Billy.

    Does your sales company (your job) pay you commissions and a salary?

    Does your company assign you and the other reps their own ‘territories’?

    How many and is there a limit to the number of ‘sales’ reps your company employs and what do you sell?

    Now I hope you Billy, will answer the questions I ask.

  23. billy permalink
    September 11, 2011 8:57 am

    @speak your truth:
    1. We work for a small base salary, but most of our pay is via commission.
    2. We have several reps per territory. If our customers lead us to new customers, we can cross territory lines (if it makes geographic sense, of course)
    3. The nmber of sales reps is based upon volume. When we become too busy, the company hires and trains new reps or we can recruit others to join us. I work in advertising sales.

    @Dorothy:
    I purchase the training system but didn’t buy into the online business center. Leadership package specifically. On the system, yes. Building TEAM, no.

    So far, my sales are up at work since I started listening to the CDs and I’ve read two of the top five books. I’ve done nothing but profited from my experience with the TEAM. I think you guys were doing something wrong.

  24. not signed up yet permalink
    September 11, 2011 10:01 am

    Billy

    You may not be working the business now, but just wait. The pressure will come for you to attend monthlies and get you to a major.

    And please don’t get the impression I have anything a against you I don’t. I am simply sharing my experience with TEAM as are others here. Be careful and check things out before you get too deep.

    I have been thoroughly observing TEAM and researching them for well over six months to see if this was a god thing for me. After getting my questions dodged and deflected or getting just false answers or a lot of answers were “Listen to this CD, you’ll find the answer in there:”

    You’ll also find that they wont do it at first, but they TEAM/LIFE will start bashing your job because you are trading time for dollars. I do that in my business and its working out pretty good for me. I get to bill every hour I work for a client, you don;t get paid to show the plan, got to opens seminars or monthlies…and there’s a lot of hours right there.

    TEAM/LIFE is not a part time thing even though the tell you it isn’t After a while you will be pressured to go all in get on system and be part of the collective.

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 11, 2011 11:58 am

    Billy~

    Thanks for answering the questions. You are comparing your legitimate ‘sales company’ to the MLM Team business and there is a BIG DIFFERENCE that you are failing to see. Orrin plays by different rules (they have none, or make them up as they go, and don’t follow the laws)…so therefore they are opposite of what your company does, unless your company is as corrupt?

    To your first answer;

    The TEAM does NOT pay you or anyone else a ‘base salary’ nor is there any guarantee you will ever be paid ANY commissions ( even those who might make a pittance; 99% will never exceed their expenses); regardless of how many people you bring into your team- ‘sales’ (internally in the case of Team profit-sharing). You could bring thousands of ‘customers’ or people on your team buying the system and they will decide; when, if, and how long, they will pay you.
    I don’t believe this is anything like ‘your sales job’ is it? Would you continue to work your job, if this was your case?

    They also promise it is ‘performance based’. But this too is only a half-truth (lie) because even if YOU are ‘only someone’s customer’ to whoever that person who ‘sold you’, that person will NOT get paid directly from that sale. It is all thrown into a profit-sharing that has a ‘secret formula’ that you or anyone else cannot verify how much you really earned. In other words, if you are the ‘top sales person’ (bring the most customers) and others in profit-sharing are not and lower the sales, then the pot will be less for you to be paid your commissions. Orrin determines where the money goes.

    Does this sound like your company pay plan? Would you continue to ‘work’ for your sales company if your pay depended on what other reps did or if they would NOT pay you for your direct sales? This again is not like ‘your sales job’.

    Answer 2: In the Team; There is ‘unlimited’ amount of ‘reps’ for anyone one ‘territory’ as a matter of fact; they teach to all the supposed, (15 thousand who attend every quarter according to Art Jonak) they tell everyone; no one is a ‘no’ they are all ‘maybes’, so you are directly competing with those thousands (your neighborhoods, towns etc) and trust me, people steal and are unethical in their practices in the TEAM.

    Is this how your ‘sales company reps compete’? I didn’t think so, again no comparison to a legitimate sales company.

    Answer 3; Again, Your Company ‘measures’ the amount of ‘reps’ so you aren’t ‘competing for the same customers’. NOT anything, like Team.

    Those ‘top five books’ you speak of and you can get motivation anywhere; can be purchased (at a better price) anywhere, and even gotten from the library for free, along with EVERY book they have in their system. Your company does train and help you if you ask or lead you to any that would help your sales, correct? Then why would you not try and save yourself money in finding the materials that would help increase your sales for free or at a better price? You do want to make a ‘profit’, I am assuming and obviously you are ‘working’ at your company so you can make a living correct or you would be doing it for free?

    Here is another contradiction; Orrin himself along with others have said; We can’t motivate you; ‘motivation is only temporary,’ you have to be self-motivated by your ‘dread’ or ‘dream’ (nightmare in our experience), therefore why would anyone NEED to continuously lose money buying their ‘motivational’ seminars, cd’s or dvd’s? Doesn’t make sense does it.

    What you don’t understand, and you AREN’T qualified because you haven’t built the Team business nor do you know anything about how the profit-sharing works, is that they are NOT a legitimate sales company, they are a MLM-self-consumption business that sells idea’s internally and uses those books, that they purchase from somewhere else in bulk at a discount and then ‘re-sale’ internally, to exploit and make money for their agenda along with everything else; cd’s, seminars, majors, clothing etc…

    If you admittedly know nothing about the Team you say; “I purchase the training system but didn’t buy into the online business center. Leadership package specifically. On the system, yes. Building TEAM, no.” You are in no way qualified.

    Then you state: “I think you guys were doing something wrong.” What gives you the idea; you would have any credibility or are some authority in telling us we are doing something wrong?

    Let us know what it is; you ‘think’ we are doing ‘wrong.’

    One last thing, I find it real curious that you Billy are only ‘using’ the system to ‘better your job’ but then you come here and question, and in some cases I believe you are trying to insult, and want to defend something you know nothing about.

    Something just doesn’t add up, Billy.

  26. May 12, 2014 4:21 pm

    I was getting off from work at McDonald’s. I was tired as heck, since I work 3-10am, Tuesdays and Fridays, the merchandise truck arrives at 3 – 4am those days. Besides tired, I also felt like I work too hard and am under-appreciated. (I got the appreciation I deserve some time afterward but it has nothing to do with this story)

    I find this guy trying to deposit a check at the bank, and I have a light conversation with him about how I felt. He told me about a proposal, since he mentioned that he puts in tile for rich people, I thought his proposal was about being in the business with him as a carpenter. Nope, it was Life Leadership.

    He invites me to meeting, and I was held back, like I thought I was going to be tied-up and killed or something, so no trust and I missed it. I told him that I might not be able to make it, which I could but didn’t want to go. I even told him that I will call him when I am interested, and I never called. The following week he called me, as in he was insisting that I go to a meeting, he didn’t give up on me, so I decided to give him a chance, after all I am a helpful person and felt bad. I missed the event that proposed simply because I overslept, and I ended up waking up to my alarm, just in time to go to work(My normal work time in McDonald’s is 10 – 6 am). I texted him an apology and even looked up the meeting place, which was a church, I gained trust in him.

    Now, I was determined about the meeting he would set-up next. I agreed and went, but I still felt like I was going to get killed(Kept thinking it was a trap, and it was but not a life-threatening trap since I never officially joined this scam), so I left my mother the address. It was a house, like any other, nothing wrong with that. When I went in(personal distaste for the home is my own concern, so skipping to how it went), it was a Seminar no doubt, and I was told that I would get rich and blah blah blah.

    They are very convincing, specially this guy called Jeff that is apparently rich and mentoring the stranger that I met at the bank, but I still felt like I didn’t want to join this. In the end, after even having a personal meeting with Jeff and the stranger, I kept telling the stranger, which I would call a friend on a real-life basis but fully-brainwashed, that I am not interested, but he is too brain-washed to accept my denial of continuing.

    I love my own empowerment. No means “NO!”(At least that’s what the chicks tell me).
    Just a few hours ago, he paid me a visit, not at my apartment (Thank God!)(Meh, I am moving anyways, so no worries), and I gave him a cut-off piece of paper with “John and Melanie Morgan,” “Amway, MonaVie, Quixtar, and Forbes,” and this site, of course.

    I mean, speaking with my mother today, she told me that she was in Quixtar and that she didn’t make money out of it, but it cost her money. Also, this same guy was in Quixtar, and still believes that this scam will work, he even tells me that this “opportunity” is easier to work with. (No duh! It easier to be scammed is more like it!)

  27. May 12, 2014 5:02 pm

    @megamanxtreme – thanks for sharing your story.

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 12, 2014 9:09 pm

    megamanxtreme~

    I too Thank you for sharing your story. 🙂

    Do you remember Jeff’s last name?

  29. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 15, 2014 9:04 am

    megamanxtreme~

    After re-reading your ‘story’ I found it somewhat humorous and more curious at the same time. 🙂

    How long was your mother in Team/Quixtar and how much money did she lose from both Team & Quixtar?

    I like your “no means NO” and totally agree….but seems that didn’t work too well for you at first, lol.

  30. May 15, 2014 2:22 pm

    My mom says “about a year.” She didn’t make profit, that’s the problem she experienced, just expenditures.
    Until I get a call from the guy(so-called friend), I didn’t want to bother asking him for Jeff’s last name, since the guy might keep pressuring me to go to an event. (I take it that he’s seeing the light, or is just in limbo.)

    My biggest problems are that:
    Gas isn’t free, and the distance to the meetings is pretty far for the gas to make-up for it.
    I also have to pay for the seminars, expenditures upon expenditures.(And, this was based on that open-house meeting, where I didn’t have to pay for it. Gas paid for it, I guess.)

    Besides, everything is misleading, even the brochure on our “Earnings.”

  31. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 15, 2014 2:46 pm

    megamanxtreme~

    Thank You for your response. 🙂

    You brought up my next question. You mention a misleading “brochure on Earnings?” Do they give you that to keep or is that for the “public” to see on their website, if not I wonder why?

    Maybe if they let you keep it…you can share it. Was this called an IDS or “income disclosure statement”?

    What did you see as misleading about the “Earnings?”

  32. May 15, 2014 4:04 pm

    Maybe misleading was the wrong word. They didn’t explain it to me and I don’t understand.
    Sure, i can share it, it’s given to everyone that attended the meeting.
    Actually, it’s the same one the website.(I just checked)

    Sorry for the confusion.

  33. Melanie Morgan permalink
    May 15, 2014 4:41 pm

    It’s okay you are not confusing me, you don’t have to apologize, I already know it is misleading. Sadly. I know all to well….it is their “training”… they intentionally do that… withhold information and answer a question with a question etc…They do this on purpose…and teach to evade, and distract you… they don’t want you asking any question, unless it is “how do I get started” or anything that would get you involved…..they don’t want you to ask questions that they know would prevent you from joining or creating “doubt” in your mind!

    So they have strategic techniques to distract and evade… It is part of what they call “duplication” and taught in their supposed success…. “proven system” but thankfully it is clear to me now and I have come to see it for what it is….if you got started you too would learn those intentionally confusing, unethical and manipulating techniques to use on “prospects” also.

    I just didn’t know it was made available to the public. If it is made public, I would hope Mike Collins and or Brent Hansen would do a new analysis on their ‘updated IDS’ and not sure if Amthrax would put it up,(you would have to ask)?

  34. exTEAMster permalink
    May 15, 2014 7:54 pm

    I wonder if the “brochure” on earnings is actually the outline of the compensation plan?

    One of the things that always made me uncomfortable when pitching the LIFE “plan” to others was trying to remember when to give honest answers and when to give a non-specific answer. I’m sure LIFE isn’t unique in that regard…it’s a problem with any MLM. But then again, I thought LIFE wasn’t “another one of THOSE things.”

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