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Seriously, How Was The Last Major Function Life Changing?

October 17, 2011

Do whatever it takes to get there, it will be life changing!

Dan Hawkins

I’ve read or heard variations on this quote for many years, and I still struggle to identify what’s really life changing about these major functions.

Here are some questions that LIFE TEAM members should ask of their upline before, during, and after the Major Function in Columbus, Ohio, from October 21-23, 2011:

  1. What happens to a TEAM member’s standing in TEAM or LIFE if s/he choose not to stay on MonaVie auto-ship?
  2. How will tools be differentiated between LIFE and TEAM?
  3. Now that the tools have PV (points) assigned to them, will one get bonuses back on the tools purchased at the Columbus Major Event? Or does one have to wait until LIFE starts on 11/1/11 before making money on tools purchases?
  4. Will there be any duplication of material between LIFE and TEAM? Surely people don’t want to pay twice for the same information.
  5. What do the leaders say about the calculated 95% loss rate in the LIFE compensation plan?

I hope TEAM members don’t forget what they’ve been hearing and doing for the past three years. Wasn’t MonaVie supposed to change everyone’s life on TEAM for the better?

I hope they look in the mirror and realize that every major function is advertised as a life changing event, yet none truly live up to the hype.

There are very few things that I agree with Orrin Woodward, but one of them is that change does come from within. I will argue, however, that one does not need to spend $50 or $500/month on LIFE tools to tell me that. There’s plenty of free material on the Internet or in the library to help improve one’s finances, fitness or the rest of LIFE’s 8F’s.

Readers: What other questions should LIFE TEAM members ask their upline at this week’s function?

70 Comments leave one →
  1. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 17, 2011 10:56 am

    Yes…I suppose you could say it is ‘lief’ changing alright…if you consider a bunch of hyped up indoctrinating propaganda….and temporary ‘motivation’ that deflates as quickly as it came..and racked up debt…precious time away from your family… life changing?

    So if you take Dan’s advice to do ‘Whatever it takes’… Meaning…Sell what ever you got.. Rack up some credit card debt..Sell your T.V…Don’t pay any of your bills for the month…Beg your neighbor to cut their grass for the whole summer…Sell your car..Have a rumage sale and sell your childresn’s beds or couch.. You can always buy a new and better when you GET RICH and Financially Free..who needs a couch anyway just a tempatition to become a couch potato and you won’t go STP to make $$…I mean change lives.. You will only miss a family funeral..unless of course it is your own… Miss your childrens birthday parties..and if it is your annivesary…bonus!…No reason to spend it alone with your spouse…Just think of it as there is a whole bunch of business ‘competitors’.. celebrating it with you too!…lol..How about…lease your kids out for a weekend or dang…why not take up drug dealing temporarily..just long enough to collect a grand or so if you are a couple to get there..only if you have to though…lol…after all it means Takes…Right?

    You just HAVE to be there….

    Not I…We have been there and done that… Attended hundrends of those lief.. mind-alterning events. There are plenty of ways to get ‘motivated’ without doing ‘whatever it takes’..for FREE..and if you are on the CD’s no worries you can listen to it 3 times a day…and it will only cost you 5 or 6 bucksss..Such a deal…But oh it isn’t the same as ‘experiencing’ it live…Ah yes…we know all too well…then you won’t ‘experience’ sleep depravation…seeing the false recogniztion…being indoctrinated…and you might lose ‘HOPE’ in Your One and Only shot at making it BIG…Sorry…at least 95% plus of you won’t make it anyway…Just the Truth. Observe the event when you are there…do a reality check..look to the right and then to the left and all around and ask;

    What are my odds of EVER making it into the TOP 1%? It should be sobering…

    And in our case those lief mind-alterning majors wasn’t worth ANY of it!

    And…In the end… we could clearly see it..our ‘teaching moment’.. hit like a ton of bricks… was a total waste of precious time away from our family, that can Never be gotten back or to go in the hole financially and all our efforts be stolen away overnight…

    iIt has been life this way to us because… we could finally SEE the truth and to ‘be gone’ and stop doing ‘whatever it takes’… is the best thing we could have ever done.

    Here is some questions for anyone who care to take a stab at…

    How can they already have the line of sponsorship established in LIEF (there was a deadline to hold your spot in LIEF, it has already came and gone).. When it isn’t even officially launched?..How is this legal to ‘register’ in a business that really isn’t an offical business?

    Why would they even bother changing the Name from the original Team of Destiny.. to Team… to now LIEF and seemingly flushing MV or at least to those who can only afford it or need ‘Truth’ in that ‘F’..Seriously? and Why would they have to rearrange the line of sponsorship once again… from TEAM into LIEF…what could possible call for such change? Hmm…suppose they have changed the line of sponsorship that was originally built to cover some their arses.. and give ‘others’ their teams they never built…How perplexing all of it is…

  2. Hershall permalink
    October 17, 2011 4:39 pm

    There’s a video on the EBC of an excited Chris Brady explaining that there will be L.I.F.E. materials in Columbus this weekend. The Team tools will be in another area. They will focus on community building i.e. The Pattern, STP, building numbers, depth etc. We assume the “E.B.C.” and “System DF” will remain along with seminar tickets whose prices are about to jump. They’re adding more “value” to the monthly Saturdays with an extra speakers. We think the profit sharing will remain the same for this stuff as will the Team levels of Go Getter, Power Player, Director, Round Table and Policy Council.
    The Chris Brady video says L.I.F.E. tools bought at the major will count as PV stored for the launch in November. The L.I.F.E. stuff will be more along the lines of the LLR and AGO series of books and CDs. We don’t expect duplication.
    We expect the lines of sponsorship stay intact since the current communities are being compensated the way they were built in MonaVie and the Team butts in seats and systems are reflected in profit sharing. There is a lot of money in the Mona Vie plan that no one expects to give up. Orrin has said that with the people who have joined since the new business was announced and those that will join – the Team community will spill more Mona Vie by accident than they’ve been pouring. Mona Vie isn’t being flushed but the spotlight has been taken over. It becomes a partner rather than a main focus. The exact way the L.I.F.E. lines of sponsorship will be tallied isn’t certain of course. There could indeed be some tweaking since there’s a precedent for such shenanigans. No one gets registered for the new MLM until the 1st of Novemeber. Frankly it’s a question if there will even be a registration or an application or a contract.
    This weekend’s event will see a few details. Dallin Larsen is expected to talk about the new MV MVP program to be announced in january. The MV written policy and procedures will have to be re written to allow a MV distributor to have other company’s products at the same meeting for sale within a certain period of time from MV products. Right now the only other products allowed to be sold at a meeting of MV distributors and prospects are approved sales tools of your Black Diamond. Other than that it’s restricted to MV products. By rights each of our relationships ought to be with MV first because that’s who we have an agreement with and then Team that supports the distributors who choose to get support. It isn’t that way in practice but it’s the way it should be taught.
    This weekend will see Oliver DeMille (author and founder of George Wythe University) speaking about education and freedoms based on his work. They also hinted at a Sunday top ten in America guest pastor. These guests forcast the L.I.F.E. speakers and events and subscriptions.
    The weekend as life changing is something else. You get to bond with the team members you travel with and share sleeping space with. It’s mainly positive. You get into a huge venue and see thousands of people involved with the same scheme you were convinced to join. You see long lines of people recognized for building and getting results and you hear stories of the ones that have grown the most. You get to cheer for the ones that share your up line. You get to put faces to the names and voices you’ve heard on the recordings. It’s mainly positive. But there are sacrifices and there can be too much money spent and the positive feelings do come crashing when you reflect on it later. In a few months the CD comes and you hear the same talk. In a few weeks you aren’t growing like you’d expected when you set the goal at the after meeting. And – if you’re honest – you looked around you and realized that only about a hundred people crossed stage out of a crowd of seven thousand. You realize that the people you sign up will do nothing and feel as overwhelmed as you do by the financial and emotional cost of staying in the scheme. You realize you need to find a Chris Brady the way Orrin did in order to get as far. You realize that Claude Hamilton and George Guzzardo and Bill Lewis are STILL Hawiian Blue Diamonds and don’t have their Black Mercedes yet. If you want a Black Mercedes from Mona Vie and a double PC doesn’t have one yet – – – –

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 17, 2011 6:43 pm


    Could you explain… Why they told ALL the existing people that were registered in the Team that they had to Get In and ‘hold their spot’ in LIEF… or.. They would lose their spot? It is very clear, that they have ‘created’ a new line of sponsorship in LIEF.

    You state; “We assume the “E.B.C.” and “System DF” will remain along with seminar tickets whose prices are about to jump.”

    Who is assuming the ‘system DF’ (line of sponsorship) in the EBC (paid for website) they will remain the same? The “System DF”.. IS.. the line of sponsorship; which includes those on system and tickets.

    What are the prices going to ‘jump to’? So they are going to jack up the prices but it isn’t going to add $$ to the profit-sharing?

    And what they are ‘focusing’ on @ this major is nothing new and NO DIFFERENT than what they ‘focus’ on at EVERY major…”community building i.e. The Pattern, STP, building numbers, depth etc.” and the speakers are the Same also for that same old repeated ‘teaching’ is the PC who are the speakers. And Dallin has been speaking at the majors since they had their first one when they left Q/Amway and went to MV. They are adding 1 outside speaker to the venue and that justifies ‘jacking up the price’?

    They don’t expect ‘duplication’ on the LIEF materials..(LLR & AGO).. How is that? Is the PROFIT for these materials NOT going to be in the ‘profit-sharing pot for everyone?’ But it is part of the new LIEF program?

    I agree..No doubt what they ‘Practice’.. is definitely different than what they say…

    Have you read the comments by Brent Hansen on how Orrin was ‘given’ his spot by Ken Porter in MV? How about the Hawkins who were given 2 groups from Billy Florence & Randy Haugen?

    Let me ask you something..When you are at this major and you look around that ‘venue’ with ‘thousands’ of people…Do you realize that more than 95% will NEVER turn a profit.. they will only continue to lose their hard earned money? And what does it matter if anyone finds another Orrin (hope there isn’t one) and if there was.. there have many tens of thousands before you that never found one. The other point is Orrin was ‘given’ his spot in MV… and many have been given others Teams so it isn’t about ‘finding’ another Orrin or has nothing to do with the special deals that no one else will ever get.

    Read Brent Hansen’s post on the interview with Ken Porter under the binary comp plan post.

    Also, have you read the post by Brent Hansen on the LIEF Compensation Plan and you do realize numbers…don’t lie..they shows are facts?

    Hershall,.. I think you really want to believe all this, just like most everyone of us did…. but you really should check out the Math on the comp plan…it is wise to know your guaranteed odds. It is also wise business to know the truth before you go spend a lot of money, that you will never get back. Not to mention all the other losses we have experienced.

  4. No Team For Me permalink
    October 17, 2011 7:15 pm

    Hershall – please let us know how many people get recognized with new MV pins. How many new Ruby, Emerald, Diamond, etc. Also let us know how many people get recognized as new Director’s, RT’s etc. I think you’re on to the fact (based on your comment about Hamilton, Lewis & Guzzardo still not getting their black mercedes) that Team is more about selling overpriced tools which don’t actually help anyone build the MV business – which was supposed to be the purpose of the tools in the first place.

    Also, try and get some pictures of the tool room showing the hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably millions of dollars of tools which will be sold.

  5. brent hansen permalink
    October 17, 2011 8:39 pm

    Hershall, looks like you are starting to figure it out.

    ” But there are sacrifices and there can be too much money spent and the positive feelings do come crashing when you reflect on it later. In a few months the CD comes and you hear the same talk. In a few weeks you aren’t growing like you’d expected when you set the goal at the after meeting. And – if you’re honest – you looked around you and realized that only about a hundred people crossed stage out of a crowd of seven thousand. You realize that the people you sign up will do nothing and feel as overwhelmed as you do by the financial and emotional cost of staying in the scheme. You realize you need to find a Chris Brady the way Orrin did in order to get as far. You realize that Claude Hamilton and George Guzzardo and Bill Lewis are STILL Hawiian Blue Diamonds and don’t have their Black Mercedes yet. If you want a Black Mercedes from Mona Vie and a double PC doesn’t have one yet – – – -”

    Lets see 100 crossing stage out of 7,000 would equal 7%, and only about 1/3 of those who cross are actually earning money so around 2-3%. Sounds about right, you are right on track!

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 6:10 am

    I am not sure what they are charging for tickets for this major but they will either rake in $875,000 @ $125 per ticket or $630,000 @ $90 per ticket that is if there is 7000 purchased tickets.

    How much of that do you get Hershall? Next month when everyone get’s paid off of this major …ask to see your RT & PC… their Team check that they got paid for from this major….Have them explain to you and Pay real close attention to how many legs and what their numbers are so you can have an idea of how many people you need exactly to make what they are making, then ask them what their exspenses are….or what is actually spendable income. 🙂

  7. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 18, 2011 7:13 am

    Speak says~
    “Here is some questions for anyone who care to take a stab at…”

    *I have my hand raised, Speak.
    I did some extra credit if you’d like to hear?

  8. brent hansen permalink
    October 18, 2011 3:40 pm

    And then ask them, what percentage of their group earned enough to cover even the cost of their function ticket.

  9. Mike jones permalink
    October 18, 2011 5:48 pm

    I have been going thru post after post today reading about team and life. The reason why is because I was contacted by someone who came over and showed me ” the plan”. I attended the tuesday seminar with 2 different speakers. I was seriously considering joining team and to join now before the pre launch of life to save my spot. What I could not figure out is ” what do you actually do to make money”. Nobody could answer it for me until I started reading these posts and it seems just like amway. Selling products to gain pv and get a check at the end of the month. One of the questions I specifically asked was is this anything like amway? I was told it is not. But after reading all of these posts, how could it not be anything like amway when the main guy used to work for them until they fired him.

    Now, I don’t have much knowledge in all of this, but after spending time to research this before I spend money that truthfully I do not even have to spend, I feel better about my decision on weather or not to join team.

  10. finally permalink
    October 18, 2011 6:06 pm

    It’s all about telling you enough lies to keep you around for the next major………….most of us on here bought into it for various amounts of time…………We all know better now. They lie, cheat and steal everyday of their lives for a living under the guise of making a difference. All of the PC are making less money than they were a year ago. They are the same crooks they accuse the government, corporate america and colleges of being………..Only I would add, that they are worse………..they do it and call you their friend. Go off system and see how long they are friends…….in fact show me a person the pc is friends with outside of the business. Their time is coming and I do not mean that in a positive way……….

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 6:08 pm

    little johnny in the front row~

    Fly with it…..


    Ditto to Brent’s question…If you can’t get an answer from them send an email to the team office…would be a Great question for the Team Office…attention to Rob Halstrand…where exact ticket sales and profit vs exspenses and who and how much is paid to each individual.
    But please don’t hold your breath… 🙂

  12. brent hansen permalink
    October 18, 2011 6:51 pm

    Yeah Speak, think about it ??? How crazy is it that people start their own business, and don’t know a thing about the R.O.I., cashflow, how they are paid, etc. etc. What the hell kind of a business doesn’t disclose this kind of important information to their “partners”.
    That’s because when you join them you are not a partner, you are merely an employee, and even worse, an employee that is not paid.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 6:57 pm


    It is CRAZY!..and The kind that captures minds and rips the common sense right out of ya…You nailed it with the Unpaid Employee!…. Employ of ‘other guy’ admitted to!

    And the worst is people buy it….Insanity….we were once and now we are sane…THANK GOD!

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 8:32 pm

    I just happened to come across and randomly picked.. One of the months.. When we ‘OWNED’ our own ‘business’ lol..This was AFTER the massive destruction to our team and droves left ..because of the lies, destruction, theft and all kinds of ugly corrupt things happened during the registration…

    Just to keep ya all in the know… I don’t hold any resentment or grudges either because it was an awesome experience…I am no different than any of you…I have chosen to make lemonade out of lemons though.. Besides if everyone wasn’t screwed over how could we be so thankful? 🙂

    Just as an example…(but miraculously somehow the profit-sharing DROPPED without a clue..sshhhh ..but you know there were lawsuits goin on and gag orders..just a few disagreements.. no worries…and O always does the right thing ya know and is a God fearing, honest Christian, he is plain and simply a guru….and only used his personal income for lawsuits..So it is somewhat of a mystery..I understand)…Normally I love a mystery but not when your screwin with ours or anyone else’s lives… I am still smiling…..

    God first…all else…Back to the data…approx.. 1300 tickets sold and 800 on system in our group (for this particular month)…that is a grand total of approx. $46,500 dinero’s…the TEAM RAKED IN…off our groups for ONE month… and wait for it…that’s not all… our PAY…are you ready…. to get FINANCIALLY FREE….. was less than $900 bucks….Ta Da!!! Oh and by the way this is after double the 2 to 5 year program… well double the 5 year one…

    C’mon people… don’t be soooo negative….aren’t ya Fired-Up!…That is the income for THEE entire month…before EXSPENSES!…Yep the best and the fairest pay plan in the WORLD!…The one where numerous attorneys and everyone else were just astounded by how Amazing O profit-sharing was.

    Grand Total..paid to us! (aprox. $300 revenue for tickets & $550 for tools).. Except there is one thing… I cannot tell you… How many possible tens of thousands of dollars in tools were purchased by the group… at that seminar…Why you ask?…Well… that is another secret…but hey don’t worry be happy they are trustworthy…That too is a mystery because it is not disclosed… for reasons I am sure are honorable…

    Anyone feel free to let me know “How much..your makin”…with the new LIEF program…lol

    Hope you all can fire them bosses.. get financially free… and walkin the beaches of the world…Good luck to all you Dreamers…..Get all Fired up at the next major….bet cha ya’all are flat out excited…

    I will try and come across for fairness some more ‘data’…before the corruption & destruction….if I remember to….Life in the New LIEF program; I am sure will be a ‘beach’…

  15. brent hansen permalink
    October 18, 2011 8:40 pm


  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 8:47 pm

    Yep…I am just soooo grateful we were able to but well over a decade in for such a return…

    BTW~ This was only a ‘local’ seminar…

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 10:17 pm

    Oh sorry…those figures aren’t even correct… it gets better…forgot…that was just cd’s..meaning not including books and am not sure if that was for the whole month or just the qualifying week… back in the day… they had CD’s of the week…not sure what they are doin now…YEP. much, much,much… more dinero’s.. for the WIN-WIN. Concept-ers……AND…2 months prior…the (Cd only count for the week of the pay?) was approx. 7000…yep…that’s right…close to 7000 CD’s in the group total…and for that month we were paid..Under $800 smack-a-roo’s!…So for all you math wizzards…go ahead and have fun with that one! 7000 x $5..just in CD’s and close to 1200 tickets (major)…..These are estimated…and I am sure I’m not reading the ‘figures’ no quoting.. 🙂 Because as they say ‘it is none of your business’…You get the idea…. Sound like a fair plan? I am sure things have changed. 🙂

    That is some kick..arse…backwards growth…eh?..That you could call a ‘decline’..but then it is just my perspective and we’ve been away from the ‘correctors of thinking’ for awhile…and am sure I need some ‘correctin’…it was kinda like goin backwards on a slip-n-slide… at break neck.. speed… or perhaps watching an avalanch!

    Sure enough…ALL that work..Well over a decade of many people’s efforts.. being flushed down the swirling toliet bowl…how amazing the walk down memory lane…

    And… oh how sweet the….Lemonade. 🙂

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 10:36 pm

    Better yet could we get a mathematician and an attorney to ‘figure out’ just how they pay? Because..we have never ‘figured’ it out…Why…because O doesn’t tell is ‘his’ secret formula!

    How many of you go to work day in and day out…week after week…month after month..and NOT KNOW HOW you get paid? Isn’t there some kind of law against this? Just askin..

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 18, 2011 10:44 pm

    I apologize Amthrax…I am way off topic…Perhaps it will all be explain at that..

    Amazing, Incredible,Exciting,Never been like one before..Awesome, Spectacular, Astounding, Astonishing, Confounding, Breathtaking, Extraordinary, Dazzling, Fabulous, Eye-opening, Exceptional. Excellent, Miraculous, life changing…Major coming up! 🙂

  20. Burned Out With MV permalink
    October 19, 2011 3:49 am

    Last major function was life changing for me……

    “Amazing, Incredible,Exciting,Never been like one before..Awesome, Spectacular, Astounding, Astonishing, Confounding, Breathtaking, Extraordinary, Dazzling, Fabulous, Eye-opening, Exceptional. Excellent, Miraculous, life changing…”

    I took my life back when I saw what a total scam it all was and got the hell out. 🙂

  21. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:52 am

    Pay Now, Play Later
    Posted on October 5, 2010 by dan
    “Starting in this industry just a few years ago has changed so many of my presuppositions.”

    he’s only been in this industry for a few years????? And now he’s PC?

  22. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 19, 2011 9:56 am

    so something just doesn’t add up, webelieved…..because he then states just this past August, this….

    On August 29, 2011….dan says….
    “I now have been associated with Orrin Woodward and the Team for almost 8 years and my life is drastically different from the information I have learned and applied……”

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 10:30 am

    You are absolutly right… little johnny…NOTHING..’Adds Up’…Not their profit-sharing…not what they claim…and at least not even close to what they rake in and what they pay out of the profit..Not their words…they do not match..Nor do their action line up with those words…Not their over the top ‘edification’ (worshipping)…Not their ‘you own your own B-type business’…Not their ‘qualifications’ for recogniztion…Not their destruction of who ever does not ‘believe’ the way they do…Not their supposed Christian…world view..Not their ‘we care’ and believe in Win-Win…Not their bold-faced lies…Not their ‘guru’ status…Not their mind-bending spinning and manipulation…and on and on and on….Not a freaking thing….with an exception…there always is one….They are cons…that adds up perfectly!

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 11:02 am

    Mike Jones~

    Everything originated from Amway that Orrin began back in the early 90’s.

    LiEF training MLM is no different…They are just selling the old Amway system with their new trendy words and New Name. You called also research the Team of Destiny…which was the First name they came up with..then went to Team…now LieF Yep you are on track..keep reading you get all your questions answered. Oh and btw..thanks for confirming that they are ‘getting people in’ the new LiEF scam..before it has even launched and by telling you to ‘hold your stop!’

    Did they even mention Monavie?

  25. Mike jones permalink
    October 19, 2011 3:24 pm

    Speak –

    MV was never mentioned at all. The only reasons I knew about it was seeing it being sold Tuesday nights and me doing research about it. Even when I thought about signing up, there was nothing on the form about it at all.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 4:01 pm

    Thanks Mike Jones…..That says it all! And don’t take this wrong but for the readers this is a ‘prospect’…in other words right out of the mouth of babes. They are trying to sign people up in a business that isn’t even legit yet.

    Oh and there is A FORM for the lief you have that copy and could you email to Amthrax? Oh…AND they Never mention Monavie…Hmmmm……hope they don’t try and lie out of this one!

    Did they mention a passive, residual…income?

    Appreciate your comments and truthfulness.. 🙂

    Oh and did you know there was/is…not sure ….a Mike Jones that was on the TEAM..and his brother Steve but am pretty sure Steve left a long time ago. Kinda funny. 🙂

  27. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:09 pm

    Team Community Business of the Future
    Posted on September 21, 2010 by dan
    “Wow, what an impactful weekend! This past weekend was memorable and life changing to say the least…..”

    I guess last year’s fall leadership convention was “life changing” also……it’s like a broken record with broken promises.

  28. outside looking in permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:15 pm

    Correction: NO ONE is signed up in Life yet. Current EBC subscribers will be able to click on a link to become a member of Life after 11/1/11.

  29. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:20 pm

    Really?..Then how do you explain..Mike Jones comments and we already KNOW they have told everyone they had to ‘hold their spot’ in LieF? Are you trying to split hairs here?

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:30 pm

    outside looking in~

    Why don’t you explain to the readers how you have YOUR spot.. in LieF..and all the other pre-existing people in team did the same? Are you willing to tell all those people that know the truth.. got phone calls or face to face were told you have to ‘hold your spot’ in LieF or you will loose it… that they were lied to now?

  31. outside looking in permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:53 pm

    I, nor anyone else has a “spot” because no one has signed any documents/registration or payed a registration fee. Current EBC subscribers will have that option after 11/1/11. I don’t mean to cause trouble, I just thought everyone would like to know the correct info.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 5:56 pm

    Then explain why everyone was already told they ‘had to hold their spot or they would lose it’..You are not disclosing everything here.

  33. outside looking in permalink
    October 19, 2011 6:03 pm

    I have no idea why anyone would say that. I personally was never told that.

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 6:04 pm

    You still haven’t addressed Mike Jones comments..”THE FORM” …are you going to say their isn’t sign up and they NEVER mentioned MV?…and please don’t come back with you don’t know the person ‘showing him the plan’ must be new and uniformed…that bs doesn’t fly here…we know the chain of command and where the info comes one pulls this out of thin air.

    Why don’t you tell us exactly the ‘process’ and what they are telling people behind the scenes. Please don’t play us for fools…we have been through all the behind the scene’s schemes to cover their asses..and frankly there are a lot of people reading your comments that have received those calls and face to face demands and instructions, that know better.

  35. outside looking in permalink
    October 19, 2011 6:11 pm

    All I know is there is a form to sign up for the EBC, I have seen it myself. It says nothing about MV or LIFE. Again, I’m not here to create conflicts, just stating facts as I know them.

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 19, 2011 7:32 pm

    Do you mentor with your upline RT, Do you register your own recruits or do they only allow RT and have you went through the process? you attend all the majors, seminars, and are on full system?’

    What are the PC & RT telling YOU the process for signing people up in LieF we speak? Are you still signing people up in MV (with their registration form) right now or does the TEAM have a seperate form from MV? And if they are using MV does it same TEAM and or LieF is a seperate business? If you sign someone up right now..what is the process?

    You…outside looking in…How are YOU registering people and with what forms… what ‘business’ are YOU telling YOUR new recruits they are signing up ‘in’..? Do YOU or your RT tell them they are signing up in MV..and LieF or MV and TEAM..or just LieF?

  37. No Team For Me permalink
    October 19, 2011 9:32 pm

    I’m told there was an Orrin Woodward registered into MV on 8-16-11 and personally registered by William Howard. Could this be Orrin’s oldest son Jordan? Is Jordan perhaps his middle name and his 1st name in Orrin. I know Orrin’s father’s name was also Orrin. Perhaps this is another generation.

    Is William Howard actually ‘Captian Billy” that takes care of Orrin’s Florida property?

    I’m told this new distributor has 11 people in their MV binary and not a single one of them is currently “active” which means they have not place a MV order in this cycle.

    If so, why wouldn’t Orrin’s son be encouraging people to be on autoship? It would be interesting to know if these same people who have been registered into MV within the last 2 months and are already not active, are on the Team system buying the tools. Anyone want to take a guess at what’s really being promoted?

  38. Mike jones permalink
    October 19, 2011 9:55 pm

    I do not have a copy of the form. It was for team. Nothing stated in it about MV nor anything discussed to me about it. No policies were ever discussed with me. And I do not take anything you say the wrong way. I am young, 24 to be exact.

    Webelieve –
    No form about life. Was told to sign up now to hold my spot in life.

    This is what I was told by people coming into my house and showing me the plan. Attending a few Tuesday meetings and asking the question “what exactly do you do in this business and what do I have to sell to make money.” nothing about MV was discussed. Not by the people that came to my house or the people on the team or at the meetings. I’m not trying to rain on anybody’s parade here but i took my time and did my research online because nobody could answer my questions. I even ran into somebody I knew from awhile back and asked them what exactly do you do in this business. They could not answer me either.

    This must work for some people. Cause someone is making money. Before I signed a form for team, I wanted to know what exactly I would be doing or what I would have to sell. Someone could have explained MV and the tools. The main reason I was told to sign up now was to hold my spot in life. That money would be rolling in fast after nov 1 pre launch.

  39. Dorothy permalink
    October 19, 2011 10:39 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  40. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    October 20, 2011 3:49 am

    From my point of view, this is what I believe is happening. The PC is encouraging people to sign up with the new signup costs (EBC & Book I believe?). It is supposedly to hold their spot in Lief, except the new guy doesn’t actually sign any paperwork for Lief. All of the “holding your spot” is done behind the scenes by the new person’s director / profit sharer. I believe they are keeping their own LOS’s based on EBC registrations, so when Lief is launched on November 1 and people start filling out the paperwork, they already have pre-filled spots, whether they are aware of that or not.

  41. Samantha permalink
    October 20, 2011 5:43 am

    Orrin’s oldest son’s name is Orrin Jordan Woodward. They call him Jordan. William Howard is in fact Captain Billy.

  42. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 20, 2011 6:27 am

    …, let me get this straight and please correct me if I’m wrong.

    1. Amway/Quixtar (Team of Destiny/Team)

    2. Team Mona Vie

    3. L.I.F.E. Team

    All three steps here, have gotten these individuals of the PC a seat up on stage?

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 7:24 am

    little johnny~

    You are on to it…And the most important…all 3 of those steps have brought them hundreds of millions of dollars!

    The ‘pre-launch’ is no different than when we all were ‘selling’ the business as no-longer Amway but the ‘NEW’ online sister company Quixtar.. in it’s ‘pre-launch’ stage while waiting for the switch to be turned on. There is no doubt they are ‘selling’ the LieF business stacking it up..just ‘waiting’ for 11-1-11 until that switch can be ‘turned on’…so to speak.

    Orrin and the PC.. their methods and practices are so predicitable. Those who have churned through all the stages… know how they opperate… they take the ‘ends justifies the means approach’…It doesn’t matter.. whether they inform a matter of fact..the less informed the better..or if their practices and methods are moral, legal, or ethical…because they will do ‘whatever-it-takes’ to keep the flow of $$$ to their (PC) pockets.

    Their history, although they want to hide and whitewash it… continues to recycle itself because they don’t change the fundamental flaws and root problems. So, they will continue with the same old Amway plagerized ‘system’ while… Calling it ‘their’.. LieF, with the same horrendous attrition and guaranteed failure rates..they will continue to ‘blame’ those who figure it out and leave.. as if they are who failed. Until one day it will all catch up.

    It is called Insanity…the very defitinition they will repeat a millions times over…to indoctinate those they would like to convince.. YOU are the insane one and are going to home to work and will never achieve your goals in life going to a ‘real’ job or profession.

    It doesn’t matter how the LieF… slice it, dress it, frame it, charm it or how positive or noble the lip service makes it….IT IS the same as it always was and they will continue to recylce people through.. only for those more than 95% (minimum) to be left with NO PROFIT…EVER..and terrible losses beyond the monetary ones.

    They will can never convince me anything has changed…the proof is in the quaranteed failure rates… It may sound like doom or gloom…but take it from those who have been there…or not…go through it yourself…if you must. Judge it like a ‘real business’…not by the ‘dream’ of what if. One problem….It will take years to get your questions answered.. if ever… to those logical smart business questions…Why?…because they ‘bank on’ capturing your mind…and you You… forget about the reality…

  44. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 20, 2011 8:20 am

    so, what about this statement……

    Posted on November 17, 2010 by dan
    “Here’s another question, how could I go from being scammed to the scammer all in the same business? If they were scamming me, by definition I could not have succeeded and become the scammer!”

    ?…..what the hell is he talking about then? Like you said, it doesn’t add up at all.

  45. brent hansen permalink
    October 20, 2011 8:35 am

    Little Johny and Speak, who is the Dan you are referring to, and where can I find this post?

  46. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 20, 2011 9:26 am

    the link up at the top that Amthrax provides.

  47. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 1:59 pm

    Little Johnny~

    That is an easy one. Dan believed in the con’s/ scammers that scammed him long enough to become the scammer…Dan should be able to answer that one all by his self…When you are ‘given’ 2 teams from someone else’s entirely different group.. to ‘achieve’ PC and not disclose this.. to those thousands of others that is how you ‘succeeded’.. oh quite the contrary..they all say ‘do what I did..and you can have what I have…then that fits the definition of a scammer…Not only is that ‘deceptive’ it is a form of ‘trickery’ and ‘fraud’.. to get others to believe they can ‘succeed’ just like Dan..did..but we ALL know EVERYONE isn’t given teams to ‘qualify’…not much more to explain.

    But to help Dan…he must be stuggling with this so I thought I would put up a few defintions ..he or anyone else can do the same…it is clear to me… the shoe fits.

    What dictionaries say about scam:

    1. A ploy by a shyster to raise money.

    2., A fraudulent business scheme. To scam means to victimize: deprive of by deceit; “He swindled me out of my inheritance”; “She defrauded the customers who trusted her”; “the cashier gypped me when he gave me too little change”

    3. A confidence trick, confidence game, or con for short (also known as a scam) is an attempt to intentionally mislead a person or persons (known as the mark) usually with the goal of financial or other gain. The confidence trickster, con man, scam artist or con artist often works with an accomplice called the shill, who tries to encourage the mark by pretend
    A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.

    scam; a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation

    definition of fradulent;

    1.Obtained, done by, or involving deception, esp. criminal deception: “the fraudulent copying of American software”.
    2.Unjustifiably claiming or being credited with particular accomplishments or qualities.

  48. free at last permalink
    October 20, 2011 2:54 pm

    Didn’t orin claim they signed up 400 people in one night or something like that. Our former rt has been bragging to his teams he already has 500 people signed up in life.

  49. Melissa permalink
    October 20, 2011 3:09 pm

    TEAM tryd to get me and my family in this bs!!! Me and my husband been having ppl come to our house trying to get us to join them “hold our spot” $87. Was told the majors were $130 each person in ohio. I ask why is it so much, if yall trying to help ppl?? he said its just to rent the building!! If thousands of ppl attend like they say and charge $130 a head, They are banking off these majors and its not going to none that joined im sure. Team talks about family but why is no daycare available for children??? Thank you and other sites like this to just back up my suspicion. I told them no 3 days ago…….

  50. finally permalink
    October 20, 2011 3:55 pm

    The team trees for life are already made up but not official. The Rts have been putting them together with profit sharers for months. You will get the spot they designate for you based on your loyalty to the system and tools you buy.

    Orrin’s formula is known only to him. Halstrand does know the numbers and is sworn to secrecy. Orrin knows he can control him. Heck even the pc members have no clue as to how much the team takes in. What kind of morons are they???? If they were to cross orrin at all they would be out………… is that for security

  51. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 4:11 pm

    LoL..finally…Yep and they try and come here with their BS…innocence… as if we don’t already know how the scammers opperate. And the 400 sponsored overnight…Do you think they could EVER give the full story…..nah…that would be called honesty…something I have seen them lack severly in.

  52. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 4:14 pm

    Sorry bout the spelling errors…that wasn’t apart of the 8 ‘F’s…when we were there…lol

  53. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 6:49 pm


    No Suprise…the loyality factor and favorism has been going on for quite a few years now. It showed up like a Disney Firework Show on the 4th of July…when the lawsuits began and all the schemes they were pulling off to try and beat, hide, cover their tracks… Q/Amway lawsuit…

    Then the ‘rewards’ showed up for the ‘loyalist’…they were given teams…when the registration began in MV. And those who didn’t screw with the Attorney States General, Resigned when and how they were told…sold out their their uplines that they were de-edifiying…stole and traded people’s personals…hid documents…or even if they got paranoid and thought you were doing something that wasn’t loyal… and more.

    When you do what the dictators say without question….The loyalty meter…Sounds off in your favor…ha…And if you don’t do what the dictators ask and expect…Well then… Just read Amthrax site..Pretty sure you will get a good climse into what happens if your loyalty meter needle flew back the opposite way…lol

    Rewards & punishments… another cult tatic…

  54. switch permalink
    October 20, 2011 6:56 pm


    shit, that could make for one heck of a topic at a men’s leadership.

  55. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 20, 2011 7:23 pm

    lmao…Yes it has been done before by someone who does have integrity and honesty…

  56. little johnny in the front row permalink
    October 21, 2011 8:20 am

    Posted on October 21, 2011 by dan
    “The-life-business is here!”

    What? I thought it was the date of 11-1-2011??????????

    So, correct me if I’m wrong again….. if he’s announcing (as a co-founder of LIFE) that it’s finally here but officially launches on Nov. 1, wouldn’t that be a bit misleading??????

  57. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 10:25 am

    Little Johnny~

    “Misleading”…exactly…scammer by definition!

  58. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    October 21, 2011 8:20 pm

    It sure looks to me like at least some people are already signing up for LIFE prior to their actual Nov. 1 launch date. What do you make of the October 21st post here?:

  59. Hershall permalink
    October 23, 2011 1:31 pm

    I skipped the Major. No Photos. No estimated head count. The new registration page came up. It recommends an application (with terms and conditions on the back), policies and procedures and comp plan must get read before the form is filled out. They’re on the EBC but the policies and procedures didn’t load.

    @Speak Your Truth
    Until this weekend (when registration was brought up) I understood that everyone’s spot in the new business was established based on the current spot in the Team business. I was under the impression only the new people had to hold any spots (with a Team number). Yep. A Team number is a spot based on the EBC and DF without any real ties until you get a check. And as seen elsewhere on this site – that connection once you get paid seems to be shaky. No contract exists without a MV number which a new person isn’t likely to get but can get if they choose. At first glance, the new business registration available this weekend is similar to the MV registration in style. My look has been cursory. My interest is minimal. A Team number and a L.I.F.E. subscription should get you a spot in the new business right where you are in the old one and they should work together. I was also saying that what you listen to through Team and L.I.F.E. shouldn’t be duplicated.
    So far it’s just the make up and cost of monthly seminars changing. There will be three breaks and an extra speaker for $40 at the door. But the standing order purchaser can still get tickets for $25. The extra speaker and break will likely be the source of new business material along with the “story” talks. The first bits and ticket holder meetings will likely be the Team talks. I never meant to suggest that the speakers changed the focus of the fall event. Dallin Larsen hasn’t been at a major for quite awhile. Jeff Graham and Henry Marsh have been the usual MV Reps often accompanied by the M.O.R.E project people. The event excitement was to be built around these guests and the launch and the capacity crowd (based on only one event rather than the separation of two like spring and summer).
    @ all
    But even if it was unbearably warm in the stadium due to a capacity crowd of excited people, the math is inescapable. Even if it works for you because you’ve put in the effort and felt the heartache and spent the thousands and served and served and served – the majority on your team(s) will always spend more than they earn. You will always be promoting and looking to replace yourself in order to maintain. That is not exactly lying carefree on the beaches of the world with more money coming in than you can spend.

  60. RVN permalink
    November 2, 2011 2:33 am

    What happens to a TEAM member’s standing in TEAM or LIFE if s/he choose not to stay on MonaVie auto-ship?

    Nothing. They are two separate companies. To make money in MonaVie be on 100pv. To make money in LIFE be on 50pv.

    How will tools be differentiated between LIFE and TEAM?

    TEAM is how to build a community. LIFE is the product, information on LIFE and living.

    Now that the tools have PV (points) assigned to them, will one get bonuses back on the tools purchased at the Columbus Major Event? Or does one have to wait until LIFE starts on 11/1/11 before making money on tools purchases?

    You make money on the pv from the major before LIFE launches.

    Will there be any duplication of material between LIFE and TEAM? Surely people don’t want to pay twice for the same information.

    Nope. LIFE is regarding life. TEAM is regarding how tos and mechanics of the business.

    And as for the last comment. Yes, it is true that there the internet and books, articles, information, movies, audio, shows, speakers, papers, magazines, etc. All kinds of good stuff AND bad stuff. The problem is with the internet also breeds error. If anyone can say anything from anywhere at anytime and fake their identity and site layout to make it ‘look’ legit. How do you know where to search or who/what to believe or not? For anything you hear good about you’ll find bad about. For anything you hear bad about you’ll find good about. Search ‘strawberry scam’ ‘college scam’ ‘tv scam’ ‘corporate America scam’ ‘church scam’ there’s bad things about EVERYTHING!

  61. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 2, 2011 1:15 pm


    Thanks for the…Everyone already KNOWS MV & TEAM are seperate businesses and they pay seperately. We have been saying that since we came here! You haven’t said anything new. Lief & Team are under the same company Signature Management Team, are they not or didn’t you know that?

    That is like saying (which they did for years misleading people) that Quixtar & Amway aren’t the same business. Legally Lie.F & TEAM might have seperate names but they are the same business, regardless of how you spin it, frame it, dress it. What you are saying is they seperated their training ‘topics,’ one for training on how to build communities and one to supposedly train on life. So what?

    When one gets paid from profit sharing…most DON’T..What is the name of the company that pays those 1% who are making a profit? Do they come from Team or LieF… or do those paychecks come from Signature Mng Team, signed by Orrin?…They are all the same.

    Well, thank God there won’t be any duplication of material between the 2 that would be real stupid…lol..but again we already know they have plenty duplication of CD’s, when they rebraded themselves from Amway to Quixtar now back to Amway, with the Team of Destiny, Team, Team MV, and now LIeF. All their paperwork included. Are they STILL using Baseball Cards & the US SKI TEAM..uh huh.. because they have been using that and many other CD’s since Orrin split from his upline in Amway and controlled his own systems scam back in 1999.

    You say; “Surely people don’t want to pay twice for the same information.”..Excuse Me? People have paid 5 or 6 times, replaced their tool trucks, and top 50’s etc. for that same material from all their name changes do to them trying to hide the TRUTH on the internet. I recommend you READ the rest of the site, READ the very contract and P&P you have signed and are allowing them to TAKE your income and teams from you at their discretion anytime they feel like it for any reason, including what your family may do.

    Whistleblowers generally don’t use their names, but it DOESN’T, change the truth regardless…but in the minds of people like you, it gives you an excuse and an out to stay in denial of the TRUTH. Would you like me to describe Orrin’s current house, where the bathrooms are located, the layout, the garage, or his previous 2 houses, how about his old trailer park, his kids names, etc.?

    Currently we aren’t talking about any other ‘scams’ other than the one you are a part of. So rather than try and ‘distract’, which is obvious and notorious, from the real issues, we will stick to helping others… by informing them of this scam you and LieF, are perpetrating on others, right now.

    Finally, you know what is histerical, your last paragraph. If that is the case then I would caution you not to believe anything you read on the Team LieF…numerous blogs, guru status (which has manipulation tied to them, in and of themselves) or any thing you read anywhere about them, because it may ‘sound’ good, but it is propaganda and is very misleading and deceiving in a lot of cases. So, it works both ways.

    Perhaps your solution is to shut down the internet so everyone stops reading anything. What you don’t understand is in the normal world (outside of the illusion/delusional MLM world) people really do think critically on their own and can discern what is truth.

    So beware the enviroment of what you have succombed to is very one sided, intentionally. Especially, in the eye of the public.

  62. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 2, 2011 4:40 pm


    You say; “What happens to a TEAM member’s standing in TEAM or LIFE if s/he choose not to stay on MonaVie auto-ship?” Then you say; Nothing.

    Well, Nothing may happen to that person when they ‘chose’ to go off autoship except they won’t make any MONEY…isn’t that why they got in? And if everyone does that no one on their team makes money either, the odds are stacked against them anyway but you need to understand that people were mislead to begin with.

    By the Team/Lief no longer promoting the juice, has a much bigger ripple effect than one person…. because Orrin for years promoted we were all going to the Wal-Mart of the Internet and then took everyone to MV, that is how he manipulated his purpose to raid everyone out of Amway. Orrin also, supposedly did a ‘bench marking study’ about Monavie and said it was the BEST thing for everyone, but we all know the Truth, it was Best for HIS INCOME, so another stike against Orrin who mislead all those people who gave up their incomes, and now is doing that AGAIN.

    My point; Orrin does give a rip about you or anyone else, his decisions are based on what he Will Gain for Himself and he is too proud and doesn’t have the GUTS to Admit, MV was another Failure.

    And then he stole incomes and teams from people who did the work.. They have always claimed they ‘paid the best’ in their system, how do you think he solicited all those BIG leaders and their groups out of Amway to come to His System.. and now claim they started a ‘new industry’ that they are going to revolutionize…and they have done NOTHING of the sorts. On top of all that they have gagged, and have control over every person who signs their contract. Their comp plan sucks and isn’t even close ‘to the best’, still 99% will be failing…which you should check out for yourself.

    BTW~ Did you know YOU are Violating those LieF Policy & Proceedures..You must NOT have read it..BIG MISTAKE..but by You NOT coming on here with your full name, you have given them a reason to take your business and money…that is if you have a team and making anything….instead you came with a FAKE identity ( are you trying to make it ‘look legit’?) and then tried to discredit those on here and the internet for doing just that….Did you remember you came here with a fake identity?…lol…Ironic isn’t it?…

  63. No Team For Me permalink
    November 2, 2011 9:12 pm

    Speak – I agree with you. RVN’s comment about ‘anyone can fake their identity on the internet and make themselves look legit” is hysterically hypocritical. Mr Top 10 Guru – what a joke! If that was even remotely a serious award, you know Orrin would be having the Chairman of the company who issues the award make a big presentation at a major or at least speak at the major.

    But noone can find the individuals behind the award. Talk about faking identity to make someone sound legitimate!

  64. No Team For Me permalink
    November 2, 2011 9:27 pm

    It’s also going to be interesting to see how Orrin & Co try to spin the fact that MV just came out with their Autoship Rewards program which gives discounts for anyone on autoship of 10-30% at Target, Best Buy, Home Depot, KMart, Payless Shoes, Kohl’s, Dell Computers, Bass Pro Shop. These are some pretty big companies. Seems a lot closer to the WalMart of the internet that just purchasing some useless overpriced worthless tools.

    Should also be interesting now that MV has brought in the head of the International Speaker’s Bureau who has some authors with real backgrounds who have proven themselves to be authentic teachers and trainers in different areas of life.

    Wonder how many people are going to regret leaving MV and going with Orrin?

  65. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 2, 2011 10:15 pm

    No Team For Me~

    Excellent point…Orrin would be shouting that from a megaphone, I mean the microphone at least the stage host rattle off his ‘credentials’.. ha….. they would have everyone think he won a pulitzer prize or something, and every news media available to mankind, (well the yes-men blogs, to try and make it ‘look legit’..anyway).. definitely the awarder of such status, would be a Key note speaker without a doubt, and would ride that puppy out for years as they appear to be getting of to a good start!

    “But noone can find the individuals behind the award.” hahahahaha The elusive awarder(s) of the Guru status..where art thou? Well…what’s left…’self-promotion’…that will do! LOL

  66. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 2, 2011 10:37 pm

    The discounts at stores…hmm…looks familiar…think I am having a flash back…hahahah. Are they giving PV on the products too..don’t think so? It is like the coupon books isn’t it?

    If not it won’t do anything for anyone, except get them to SPEND more money on things they don’t need, unless of course was groceries or gas. Ever notice that, it is quite clever marketing gig…when someone has a coupon for something they would not normally buy that item or go out to eat at that place etc. but because they have a coupon or get a discount they get it anyway…hahaha. Another strategic my opinion.

    But I do agree, it should be interesting… now what is Lie.Fers going to do?..Their hype will die down just like always and Who is going to join LieF anyway… nothing has changed they still are a recruiting internal consumption pyramid scheme…they are just a middle man (book supplier) whom call themselves LieF coaches….are cd producers who charge you twice for the same rhetoric, to be there live and then purchase the CD of the same event. They should give out that CD to those who paid to be there for FREE!

    And from my experience..and the facts on the Mr. Strategic Default (lmao, as Amthrax calls him), banckruptcies and other things we can’t mention…I would NEVER take my advice from any of these people, not to mention all the other reasons that are on this blog!

    It shall be interesting…

  67. humiliated permalink
    November 3, 2011 8:08 am

    No team for me..I wouldn’t trust a thing that MonaVie is putting on their website particularly since they are laying off many of their staff (a huge indicator that business ain’t good). You should take a look at the article on Lazy Man’s site;

    Where did you get your information? I am not clear on these “discounts”?

    I think it is basically each man for himself as both companies are going into the shitter.

  68. Scott Gleason permalink
    November 3, 2011 11:34 am

    Forgive me for being skeptical, but where is the actual “proof” Monavie is experiencing layoffs? The article you posted said an email was sent from an “anonymous source” How are we supposed to know this email even exists? I know you will all probably tell me how honest lazyman is, but didn’t you all say the same thing about Orrin and Co at one time? I don’t know whether the article is true or not, but until I see actual proof I will reserve my judgement.

  69. Vogel permalink
    November 3, 2011 2:27 pm

    Skepticism is healthy. Apply it equally to Monavie/TEAM and start formulating a backup plan now, because as my friend Humiliated pointed out, all signs suggest that these companies are indeed going down the $hitter.


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