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Troy Dooly on the Orrin Woodward = Qrush Story

October 21, 2011

Troy Dooly has posted his response to the discussion about Orrin Woodward being the anonymous blogger Qrush. Troy gave me permission to post this article, titled “Orrin Woodward: Guilt, Anger, Greed and Jealousy… An Outsider Perspective”, in its entirety below.

As Troy points out in the opening paragraph, this article isn’t going to change anyone’s opinions. That’s primarily because it doesn’t really address any of the issues raised in the original post. I would like to have read more details about the conversation Troy purportedly had with Orrin.


View this document on Scribd

To those commenting, keep things civil. I had to moderate several comments which we starting to go seriously off-topic.

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41 Comments leave one →
  1. October 21, 2011 5:46 am

    As an outsider, I am partly agreeing with what the writer is saying. I think he is right by saying that victims should not get stuck in their emotional (self-destroying) feelings against the people who have done their harm. It is all about be able to forgive the other and yourself to be able to move on with your life. In my eyes, forgiveness means to let go, so that the other person has no negative control over you anymore. It does also mean that the forgiving person is taking his/her share of the responsibility of the mess he or she was in.

    However, I do not understand his remark “I have grown to respect the leaders from both camps. Without a doubt each of you bring to the tablevalid concerns and arguments on why you are right in your actions”. How can you respect a person who is lying to other people about the certainty to earn money, if only just a happy few are making a profit! Apparently the writer only talked to the leaders, and his research did not go further than an interview! This is really a missed chance. I think I can assume correctly that the leader of the anti-Orrin camp would have given inside in his business’ bookkeeping. Would Orrin have done the same? Sadly enough, in this society with the many money-hungry wolves, you cannot believe people on their word and promise anymore. Lying has become the norm instead of the exception; it does not mean that it is right, and certainly is not respectable.

    Orrin or other gurus still have success, because some business strategies and elements are convincing and by itself legitimate. The way they have implemented and use the elements in their business model is however questionable. Therefore, the remark “If you’re not willing to stand up for your rights and fight to correct what you believe are illegal activities, but instead hide behind fake names, listening to people who for all you know are paid to keep you cowering in fear, then in reality you have nothing to cry about.” made me thinking. Is there a way to proof the injustice done to ex-members of these companies in court?

    Finally, the remark “And why I am at it, whoever is running the old negative websites about Amway and former leaders of Amway, take them down. Contact WordPress if you have forgotten your login info and tell them you want the sites down. This childish behavior works in high school, not with adults!” just made me very suspicious. I do not think it is childish to express opinions in a blog. Till this day I am still happy I found this website that confirmed my suspicion, and prevented me to make a huge mistake. I am glad that so many people had the courage to tell their story on this or other blogs.

  2. October 21, 2011 7:50 am

    “Both camps believe their facts so deeply, they can’t see anything in between. They can’t see that theissue isn’t JUST Orrin, T.E.A.M./L.I.F.E. or Network Marketing. It also has to do in part with their internal issues.”

    Nope, it has to do with the fact that people have been financially harmed and not having any realistic opportunity for redemption nor recourse due to the OBVIOUS legal grey area that Woodward and his ilk have found (with the help of their former Amway mentors) and continue to exploit.

    The four things Dooley mentions are all fine & good, however he did forget the big 2.

    Manipulation and Information control, which is what the issue is, and the reason why people get pissed off when they realize not everything they were told was accurate, honest, nor in their best interest.

    Good effort by Troy to remain Switzerland on this issue. Unfortunately, in spite of being well written (same for a few misuses of words), to me it accomplishes nothing, says nothing, and contributes nothing.

    For someone who had an opportunity to expose the truth, Troy sure did a good job of sidestepping it IMHO.

    At least he indicated slightly at the end there are things that need to be fixed.

    *clap*clap*clap*

    BRAVO. But i won’t be yelling encore.

  3. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    October 21, 2011 8:09 am

    Gray area court cases tend to have unpredictable outcomes. Even though the facts would probably end up roasting the Team gurus, those of us on the perphery would likely catch some residuals as well due to our ignorance of what we were involved in. Worth the risk? Unsure. Fear of Owen? No, just of his deeper pockets. I guess I just don’t have any balls Troy. Don’t tell my wife…. she still thinks they’re real. Long live Switzerland.

  4. webelieved permalink
    October 21, 2011 8:51 am

    Rocket- Great Post!
    I agree 100% and didn’t expect anything different!
    For Troy to blame this somehow on OUR internal issues it the same bulls@#t unlogic Team tries to pull! I for one am sick of the lies and deceptions being perpetuated by Orrin and Team so called leaders on others!

    Troy why didn’t you address the issues?
    Like, when Orrin and Co. who claimed to be our friends and care about us, used unethical pracitices, and lies to keep us working for years, for their riches and then later stole what was left from our family without so much as phone call ! And we had hit Round Table and weren’t whiners who didn’t do the work!

    Or how about another RT that recently had their teams stolen from them by PC, after possibly close to a decade of work?

    Or how Orrin refuses in writing to give us copies of the contract we signed, the 20+ pager we were refused a copy/time to take to an attorney, and only given 5-10 minutes to read, or else we would no longer get paid when we were led like cattle in a group to slaughter, at a Go-Diamond weekend?

    Or how about the special deals/large teams some were given in Team profit sharing and are/ were not disclosing to others?

    Or how about the special pay plan some big leaders were put on? The one where Orrin and PC decided who was going to get paid and who was going to go broke? The one where people with smaller teams, profit sharers were getting paid more then the RT who had left their families and worked for years with much bigger teams and spreads?

    Or how about how Orrin by his own admission, ran an anonymous blogging smear campaign?

    Did you ask him, how he led all of us to believe in and build and Amway business, raked in millions off of it from his tool company, he himself believing/knowing full well for years he was building/teaching us to build an internal consumption/ illegal pyramid scheme without us having a clue? And how he later sued them for it?

    Or how he never discloses, he went into MV and went Presidential because he stole thousands of people out of the LOS in Amway, some not even in his downline, and later lost a 25 million dollar lawsuit they Amway filed against him?

    How about how Team Monavie was teaching Volume Loading in MV and how most big pins, hit it once for recognition and rarely hit it again, and how it was never disclosed to the prospects that teams bought their way to the pins?

    Or how about it was reported, groups of leaders you would know, were bribing new Monavie prospects with cash back to go on Team training system if the new prospect would allow them to place large bulk orders through their numbers, and this was all planned to happen throughout the team, in the same week to all hit their new pin levels, and that is how big groups of people were hitting the next MV pin or Team recognition levels?

    How about these questions Troy? Did Orrin answer these questions, or did your forget to ask them?

    This has nothing to do with anyone’s internal issues, and everything to do with who Team really is and the lies they are hiding!
    I have no doubt this b.s. happen’s all over the mlm world, unknown to the masses!
    And Troy is a mlm advocate? Wow………..

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:03 am

    Well said Me, Rocket & I Quit~

    Although there is some merit, there is much to be said about this ‘investigation’ but I will save it for later. I have a question for Amthrax.

    Why doesn’t the “Agreement 1” pop-up to be read as the “Agreement 2” does? Agreement 1 takes you to Dooly’s site and it appears you have to “PAY” to see that Agreement? I hope I am doing something wrong and this is NOT the case.

    Rocket says it all here: “Manipulation and Information control, which is what the issue is, and the reason why people get pissed off when they realize not everything they were told was accurate, honest, nor in their best interest. ”

    This fact.. is what conveniently, deliberately, and continually gets ignored. Read the Agreement 2. This will be verified, they have built into their agreement how one will act, think, and behave. It is a dictatorship.

    If this isn’t in direct relation to destructive cults and control I don’t know what is:

    Principles & Requirements:

    4) Director understands that as a Director he, she, or it is here to serve the Team and its Members and will always show his or her servant spirit.

    5) Director will think and act with Team pride/ego not personal pride/ego.

    14) Director is proud of his, her or its professional image and enjoys modeling the proper dress code.

    15) Director is knowledgeable and diligent in preventing cross-line behavior.

    16) Director will communicate with courtesy and respect with all peers and Team Home Office employees at all time.

    How can anyone who is able to read not see what they are doing.There is much more.

    Troy really ought to do a real thorough ‘investigation’ and ‘study’ on destructive cults.

  6. webelieved permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:04 am

    I Quit- Great Post! Thanks for the laughs…….!!!
    Fear of Orrin…….nope….not much to lose………..
    I have found the truth set me free!
    Remember this…………..
    They make take our lives but they will never take our FREEDOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!

  7. webelieved permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:13 am

    Speak- Great post…..my initial thoughts exactly.
    I also had problems with agreement 1. One thing I also question is are the agreements posted here original or the real deal…….Orrin has had ample time to rewrite them. I only want to see the one I signed!
    The information, behavior control is disturbing! Ask the Rt who in the past month had their income taken by Team/LIFe Orrin and Pc. That contract doesn’t mean JACK….. No protections for the distributor……….. just like a “good” mlm would do.
    You would have to be CRAZY to build this EVER !!!!! hoLY SMOKES……
    All of the rules are subjective….. I cannot believe people cannot see this.

  8. webelieved permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:17 am

    Wow……..Destructive Group for sure!!! It has all the signs in black and white.
    So basically better never question, walk on egg shells. And if someone reports in on you their subjective opinion about you or what they think you are doing…….. your screwed. Oh jeez it sounds familiar…………… and people wonder why we say it is ran like a cult???
    All my opinions, experieces with Team of Destiny, Team, Team Monavie…..whatever the next name.

  9. October 21, 2011 9:21 am

    @speak – I didn’t click on those links, and I haven’t read the agreements on Troy’s site.

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:25 am

    Webelieved~

    Great points…didn’t see your comments. And although we wants to ignore the fact this IS the MLM industry..Network Marketing Issues here.. it is widespread and widely known and has been for decades..and where does now his ‘responsiblity’ lie does he continue on Advocating an industry claiming ignorance?

    He stated he knew that by all not getting the contracts it was illegal and unethical..(His words) now all of a sudden his story changed to blame those with his sarcasm.. who never recieved it becasue excepted the pay for the work they did and this would never hold water in a court of law? Really?

    These issues did not just pop up on the scene for the first time in History…my gosh..the self denial and I suppose Troy now feels like he did his ‘justice’ and it is easy for him to point fingers, walk away, and tell everyone what they Should be doing…what responsibily will he hold himself accountable to or will he claim ignorance..

    I am looking forward to Vogel’s take on this.

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 9:26 am

    correction~ Should say ‘he’..Troy wants to ignore…

  12. October 21, 2011 9:57 am

    Is the writer of this piece the same guy behind http://troydooly.com/ and http://mlmhelpdesk.com/social-marketing-resources/?

    If so, what a joke(r) to present himself as neutral!

    I did not read all the individual posts, but oh boy, it now makes complete sense that he wants the MLM criticizing blogs to disappear! Of course blogs like this one are affecting his business as well.

    What I do not understand: I thought that all insights to start your own business were provided by the gurus? That you need to invest a lot of money on the tools to learn to let your business grow. Apparently this is not enough to let your business bloom. Why else do you still need this guy as a consultant for a 125 dollars an hour! Pff.

  13. Vogel permalink
    October 21, 2011 10:48 am

    My take? It was about what I expected…evasive, barren of facts, forgiving of Orrin, shifting the blame to the distributors…utterly useless really. Those 4 themes he spoke of — guilt, anger, jealousy, and greed — seem to be an accusation against the victims rather than the victimizer(s).

    But seriously, did anyone expect more from this addled clown, who calls Dallin his friend and belongs to the Orrin Woodward fan club? The only things he’s written about MV in the past few years have been pat-on-the-back puff pieces — like this one for example, in which, despite his lack of legal knowledge, he accuses Oprah of filing a frivolous lawsuit against Monavie and heaps praise on Orrin and Robert Dean (who has we all know, up and left MV for some other MLM scam shortly thereafter)
    http://mlmhelpdesk.com/2009/08/25/breaking-mlm-news-oprah-and-dr-oz-entering-mlm-by-implicating-monavie-in-frivolous-lawsuit/

    There was however one kernel of truth in the article above. It was when Drooly said: “With Orrin’s background, he can see a scam a million miles away.” That much I agree with. Who better to spot a scam than the man who designs and runs them.

  14. switch permalink
    October 21, 2011 10:56 am

    You HAVE to understand here troy, that people have been taken to the bank and hurt by all this. From your comments, I don’t think you really WANT to believe this. You may say it, but not sure you believe what’s going on. As a matter of fact, that’s quite the norm in team….It’s all PERFECT right? C’mon….that’s the impression they give, is it not? Forgive and Forget and Move on basically? Boy, I’m not even sure what to say to something like that. Honestly, what do they expect, an old team crowd to keep their silence and pretend everything is green in every team pasture? Would that be honest? I think you can answer that one. Take a good look at the tongue lashings webelieved and Speak give, seriously….for them to just move on? That’s laughable. I would consider “moving on” to be stuck in a laaazzzzy comfort zone and brushing everything off as if it never happened. No……?

    Sorry but after all I’ve read, gone through and been exposed to, that trust has been kicked to the curb a LOOOOOONG time ago.

    I’m taking V’s corner. [=}=]

    ( )( ) = hinder cheeks up against computer screen, troy.

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 11:55 am

    Thanks Vogel and to all those who have supported us.

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 1:12 pm

    Uhmmm Troy….The link to Agreement 1 (the one in question is about 4 1/2 pages) and is NOT the original contract Troy. That is the least you could have done! You should explain what you were told when given this and why you choose to put this one in question even up? That is if you even asked for the original that the Team Office and Orrin, Kevin Thompson, Rob Halstrand and Robert Dickie and others know exactly which one in question..

    They Know the original Agreement 1- document (many pages at least an ½ inch thick) not even close this little 4 1/2 pager…where did they pull this from.. Everyone signed a different one at that Go Diamond! I am not sure how you missed this with your professional claimed ‘investigation’ skills, if you knew this, which is responsible for giving it to you or if you were just tricked, lied to and snowed but… Nice F-ing try.

    Perhaps Robert Dickie since his name is on this or Kevin Thompson could verify and get this for YOU and you could at least get the original one! This one has been either altered, made at a different date, is a partial? There is No way in hell this is the original contract.

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 1:28 pm

    As a matter of fact I have never even seen the Agreement 1, you put the link to.

  18. switch permalink
    October 21, 2011 1:53 pm

    My lord, it just keeps getting better by the day if not the hour on this mess. When on earth will they ever tell the truth, instead of living the lie all the time?

    How much can they truly hide and for how long?

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 2:04 pm

    Yea..I wonder the same thing and I also wonder how Troy is going to feel when he figures out he is conned and given the contract.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 21, 2011 2:05 pm

    Intentionally given the WRONG contract.

  21. das permalink
    October 21, 2011 2:14 pm

    Great posts everyone, especially yours Switch. I was lied to repeatedly and I will NOT stay silent and let the same thing happen to new prospects. New prospects need to know what their “friends” are getting them into. I will continue to support this site until the Team cult is brought down.

    It would be pretty lame of me to forget the past and move on. The world would be a much better place without MLM scams.

  22. October 21, 2011 3:28 pm

    Well, I gotta say that “investigative report” was almost as big a let down as The Phantom Menace. Seriously Troy, you didn’t say anything that wasn’t obvious, indeed, self-evident.

  23. Doug permalink
    October 21, 2011 5:16 pm

    TROY:

    LETS TALK ABOUT THE BOTTOM LINE…. YOU WROTE THIS FLUFFY PHONY LETTER TO BUILD UP YOURSELF AS THE “MLM INDUSTRY GURU”… YOU’RE FULL OF SHIT.

    GO AWAY.

  24. das permalink
    October 22, 2011 3:02 am

    But the title of the article sounded good. Just another deception I guess, because the article wasn’t worth reading.

  25. webelieved permalink
    October 22, 2011 7:13 am

    Speak- I totally agree with you , THAT IS NOT THE CONTRACT WE SIGNED. It needs to be about 20 pages bigger! And by the way Troy, we already did the work before we had any contract, we had already left our jobs. Maybe you could tell us when this contract was supposedly written?

    But for fun let’s look at the interesting ironies in the contract posted above.

    It seems before Orrin started talking about LIFE, he liked to not mention the Team business, In fact it was said to me the Team was not our main business, we anyone who was a leader knew it was. Here is proof of a compensation plan, seperate from Quixtar/Amway.
    Troy- It seems you left off the compensation plan?
    2. “Team Compensation Plan” means the compensation plan of Team, and any subsequent
    modification of that plan, which is expressly incorporated herein. A copy of the Team
    compensation plan is attached to this contract at Exhibit A.

    TEAM WAS NOT GIVING YOU A FRANCHISE, ALTHOUGH AT THE MEETINGS THEY IMPLIED THEY WERE OFFERING YOU ONE!
    11. No franchise created. The relationship between Distributor and Team under this
    Agreement is intended to be solely an independent distributorship and this Agreement expressly
    does not create or otherwise give rise to a franchise arrangement or franchise relationship
    between Distributor and Team.

    YOU CAN BE TERMINATED ANY TIME, FOR ANY REASON AFTER DOING THE WORK!
    14. Term of agreement. This Agreement, once accepted by Team, shall continue in full
    force and effect until terminated by Team or Distributor, with or without cause, on 30 days
    written notice to such effect given to each other party, or such shorter period as may be
    provided for in the Team Rules.

    WOW WHAT WERE THEY TRYING TO HIDE HERE?
    16. Distributor agrees, at all times, to hold the information contained in this Agreement in
    strictest confidence and Distributor shall not directly or indirectly disclose this Agreement, or any
    information contained in this Agreement, to any person, firm, corporation or entity

    I GUESS THEY HAVE A GAG ORDER IN THIS CONTRACT, KIND OF LIKE THE ARBITRATION GAG ORDER THEY DIDN’T LIKE WITH QUIXTAR/AMWAY??? THE HYPOCRISY OF IT ALL.
    21. Confidentiality. Once a notice of claim has been sent, the dispute resolution process
    shall remain confidential. If any party against whom a claim is made violates the terms of this
    paragraph, the liquidated penalty shall be $10,000.00 or 10% of any amount paid to a claiming
    party, whichever is greater.

    Interesting……….if these companies were legitimate ………..agreements would be given up front before you start the “business” and taken to an attorney. I think a good attorney would tell you to run, and start a real business, one you own. For us contracts were not signed until after years and years of work and we were not allowed to take a copy……. I wonder why??????
    Perhaps because by the time you see them, you have bet the bank, done years of work and are trapped……..

  26. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    October 22, 2011 8:15 am

    I must say, I am very, very disappointed in Troy Dooly. He appeared on the surface to have wanted real facts and was going to put together a nice article on his investigations after hearing from both sides. I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt. But unfortunately, his article is truly a major fluff piece and put me firmly in the Vogel camp on this one. Obviously his “MLM advocate” work got in the way of doing his due diligence. Why did he even bother to request any information? His article addresses none of the real issues and the most he can say is that people need to follow the golden rule. To me, he used the wrong principle in the Bible…he should have used the “turn the other cheek” principle – I think that’s what he was getting at.

    Much of his fluff article was used to condemn the victims and claim that they are not moving on and are letting this stuff eat them up. Now, I’m sure that some are motivated by vengeance and won’t forgive (I can truly understand where they’re coming from), but he fails to take into account all of the many others who just want the truth to come out. I for one have tried to move on from what I personally experienced, but to now just take the easy route and not deal with the consequences that this can have (and is having) on others would be wrong in my opinion. Why would we not try to spare the newest person from the deceit, lies and half truths that we went through? And personally, what does giving our real names have to do with anything? The truth is the truth. Troy seems to follow Orrin and the PC’s approach to attack the messengers and not deal with the message. His entire article did not deal with any of the real concerns of this community. No mention of false recognition. No mention of Orrin as Crush. No mention of stealing teams. Lip service to changing the deal on the leaders (pasting links to contracts that aren’t even the real ones and then not even discussing what happened). No mention or explanation of the fact that major team leaders have gone bankrupt but are still promoting “the dream” (just mentioning the word “bankruptcy” without providing any insights isn’t what I’d call thorough journalism). He does mention that Orrin and other leaders have violated their own principles in trying to preserve their business, but why would he not go into any further depth on it? To save his own skin? Why does he not mention that Orrin has never condemned the “god-like” praise that he is given on a regular basis, both on stage and in comments to his blog articles?

    His main point of contempt seems to be the fact that at this point nobody has stepped forward to bring these issues into a court of law. I have two thoughts about this. One is that many of us are already accomplishing our purpose of getting the truth out online. Clearly this is bothering the PC because they find the need to post blog articles days, or sometimes hours, after Amthrax posts something to give their spin. Orrin has also directed the PC and RT’s to start their own blogs to combat this “negative”. But I’d rather refer to it as “truth”. Secondly, if and when these issues are brought into a court of law, of course people will need to use their own names at that time. But I think people on this site have clearly stated the reasons they have decided not to act at this time. His hypothosis that people are acting out of fear because they too were at one time “willing participants in the purported illegal RICO activities” is extremely poor. Don’t most whistle blowers come from inside the organizations that they blow the whistle on? How did the Enron scandle come to light? Sharon Watkins wasn’t thrown in jail because she used to work for those crooks.

    It’s sad to say, but I now also fully believe that Troy is following in the footsteps of Orrin and the PC and not walking the talk.

  27. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    October 22, 2011 8:18 am

    Troy;

    After reading your article not once but twice, trying to figure out if I had missed something, my initial response was, “are you kidding”? Now taking 24 hours to formulate more of an idea of what was said in your article, I have come to the same question, “are you kidding”? After reading all of the posts on Amthrax blogs, this is not what these folks here needed. Notice I didn’t say wanted. They didn’t seek you out. They didn’t ask you to voluntarily go and talk to Orrin. You came on here after reading all of these posts, and expressed your dismay to everyone, and that you were going to have an interview or conversation with Orrin about the transgresstions that have been reported on this and other blogs. You come back with a fluff piece that quite frankly belongs in a weekly church bulletin, under the heading of “A Pastors Teachings”. As a christian, I agree with you there are heart issues on both sides of the fence, this is not the time or the place for you to be waxing biblical justice. You are guilty of some of the very same things you pass on here. You stated, “grow some balls or ovaries which ever the case may be”. Where were your balls in asking the hard hitting questions to Orrin about the reported transgressions? Wasn’t that the reason for your chat with Orrin? Seems to me that you sat with Orrin and asked how Laurie and the kids are doing? You also stated that “both camps believe their facts so deeply, they can’t see anything in between”. Again you have done exactly the same. Your strong belief in the MLM industry, either dosen’t allow you to see the dirty under belly of the industry, or you are afraid of the truth. In either case Troy, while others were saying that this was going to be a fluff piece, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. These people were looking for validation from someone who is a respected author on the virtues, and problems within the MLM industry. They got none of that. Instead what got validated were those on here that thought you were nothing more than a shill for the industry. If I was a new Team Life prospect, and not of a christian background, (there are alot of those people around, myself included at one time), I would look at this article as two oppossing view points, some good, some bad, and the author trying to get both sides to resolve their differences. I would ask myself, “what business dosen’t have both bad and good points in them,” and then make a decision based on not having any of the facts that have been brought up on these threads repeatedly. If that was your goal to cloud the picture for the new prospect, then consider your job well done. In closing, if I may make a suggestion? The next time you want to write a piece about “A Pastors Teachings”, go sit down with Pastor Dickie, and ask him what has happened to him and his family. I think it would have to be slightly reworded before it could be printed in your weekly church bulletin.

  28. humiliated permalink
    October 22, 2011 8:22 am

    There are so many things wrong with that article, I don’t know where to begin. Troy speaks about Guilt fueling hate yet he is using Christian guilt to make you be ashamed of your behavior because you are all held to a higher standard. The same with your feelings of anger and resentment. His manipulation is disgusting and transparent. He can’t deal with all of this from a purely financial perspective and address the stuff that Brent, Michael, Aussie and Vogel have all brought up, so he just gets all “churchy” and spins this into a sermon instead. You know what struck me? That he was using the exact same tactics that Orrin uses by bringing religion into this and completely avoiding an in depth investigation into how TEAM is run from a “business” perspective. Seriously, he is BFFs with Kevin Thompson, TEAMS former attorney…let’s not kid ourselves that Dooly is naive to any of the crooked ways that TEAM does business.

    Let me say this loud and clear. What Orrin and EVERY OTHER LEADER of any MLM is doing is wrong and they KNOW it is wrong. Orrin is probably one of the worst because his behavior is so blatantly sociopathic and self serving, he does need to get some jail time. You anger, guilt and resentment are going to fuel change here. I know for all of you, it was directed inwards, but now it is going where it is supposed to go, towards the people that are causing and promoting this white collar crime (like Orrin & Dooly). I think that is what I am seeing the most here, you are all ceasing the tendency toward self hatred and blame, and have decided that you must do what you can to help others avoid falling into the same trap that you did. Those are honorable intentions and I don’t want anyone to forget that.We can only do what we can do and every little bit helps. You are literally making the world a better place by helping to rid it of these scams.

    Dooly’s message is clear.You people are effecting his and Orrin’s bottom line. You must stop and he will use whatever manipulative means that he can to get there.

    That is also why he wants Amthrax, Juice Scam, MLM Punisher etc. to take down their sites. People are reading and educating themselves and this is bad for business. I found that comical when I read that…you WISH Dooly. Where ever should people go to find a balanced perspective of this white collar crime industry that you support? Oh, right..your “help desk”. Give me a break.

    I was never involved with TEAM, only MONAVIE, as you all know. I read what you all had to say before ever saying a word. I literally felt your pain and have witnessed many of you heal, now giggling and laughing together. It is all very real and raw. You all have a voice here and the public is benefitting from the wisdom provided here.

    Lastly, I would love to have a cult expert come on here and critique Dooly’s “expose”. I guarantee you the outcome would be that Dooly is a master manipulator and fits right in with the cult dynamic.

  29. humiliated permalink
    October 22, 2011 8:25 am

    It looks like Steve & Used were posting at the same time I was…I apologize if there was any overlap in my sentiments!!

  30. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    October 22, 2011 12:03 pm

    No apology needed humiliated. The article was a waste of everyones time, and needs to be expressed as such.

  31. webelieved permalink
    October 22, 2011 6:33 pm

    Humiliated- Thank you so much for your comments. You really get it. I am glad this site is making a difference, and really it is much more of a difference then I feel a lawsuit would. It appears we would somehow be put under a gag order if we sued and the truth would be hidden once again. Not happening……….
    I am glad this site at least helps prospects see what they are risking and helps them use their critical thinking skills when evaluating putting their time and money into this so called business, or industry for that matter. It is the difference I hope to make…..for others.
    I love reading your comments they are clever and precise! 🙂

  32. webelieved permalink
    October 23, 2011 6:49 pm

    I can’t wait to see what Brent says about Troy’s article! It seems a bit odd he hasn’t commented yet…unless I missed it.

  33. brent hansen permalink
    October 23, 2011 7:54 pm

    Webelieved, here is a copy and paste from where I answered back to you on the other thread.

    Webelieved, I don’t know what else to say. My last post in conversation with Vogel was “end of discussion”. I really have nothing to say about Troy’s piece, I expected more out of him, and he failed to meet expectation. To be honest with you the whole “Christian Nymphos” and “Pure Bed” thing freaked me out a bit, and I don’t know what to think. I am going to be sending Troy a private message regarding my thoughts on his whole online persona. But as far as him digging in deeper, we probably ought to throw in the towel on that expectation. I don’t see any sense in kicking against the pricks. A personal onslaught against Troy is not going to make him investigate any further. Any ideas? Feel free to email me through Amthrax if you have any insight you would like to share. Thanks!

  34. brent hansen permalink
    October 23, 2011 8:12 pm

    MLM is a scourge on humanity, and these tool systems are the antithesis of success. It doesn’t matter how they are disguised, and which company they are wrapped up in, they are all simply wealth transfer mechanisms designed for the few to profit at the expense of the many. Lief will try to promote their “system” as compassionate capitalism, but it is merely capitalism in its purest form. One of the essential characteristics of capitalism is the class division which is even more obvious in MLM models. The capitalists (PC) live off the profits they obtain from exploiting the working class while reinvesting some of their profits for the further accumulation of wealth. All the while trying to convince you that you too can be just like them. Two months ago I asked a PC member on the phone if he knew the mathematical success ratio in Lief and he told me NO!

    Luckily for all of us who have been harmed by the industry, we have two things on our side, 1. time, and 2. the law of the harvest. Sooner or later, the rope will begin to unravel.

  35. brent hansen permalink
    October 23, 2011 8:20 pm

    Here are some sickening comments from the brainwashed masses at the Columbus Major.

    Orrin, THANK YOU so much for this opportunity!!!

    The groundwork for the Freedom Shift!

    Thank you Orrin

    I was there, it was awesome!! LIFE is great!!

    we were there and are FIRED UP!! Thank you and to all of the PC and leaders for everything you do. I can’t wait until the day comes and I get to come home for good with my kids and knowing we are going to be able to make a difference in so many others lives makes the struggles and time away from your kids worth it. Thank you for this gift

    I’m completely jealous that my mentor is there and I’m not! He sent me a picture yesterday, looked a lot like this one! How awesome! 🙂

    We were there!!!! Fired up! Just tried too book our hotel for january and everything within walking distance is SOLD OUT!!!!

    Was there as well and heading back to Wisconsin. What an amazing weekend. Thank you Orrin and the rest of the PC for all that you are doing for us.

    FIRED UUUUUUP TANKS ORRIN NICE FIN DE SEMANA

    Just got home… had THE best time! So proud to be associated with this amazing community of people! God bless the founders and all associated with LIFE!

    A huge and inspiring event !! Thanks Orin and rest of PC council for allowing us to be partners of LIFE !! A true community of people, looking to make a change.
    WHAT an amazing weekend!! DOUBLE PP and we are just going to keep running with it!! Can’t wait to change lives, make a difference and get FREE!!! Thank you so much to all the men and women who created such an amazing experience!! FIRED UP!!!

    What a great weekend….headed straight down to KY to STP! Thanks PC…and special thanks to Bill n Jackie Lewis…awesome mentors and friends!

    I wonder if these folks were informed that 96% of them will lose money each month! Could that have been possibly covered in the training?

  36. das permalink
    October 24, 2011 1:11 am

    I remember feeling like these folks after the majors too. Then one day I realized my money was gone along with the relationships of my family and closest friends. We will surely save some from the pain we went through but there are others who have to learn from their own mistakes. Lief 101

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 24, 2011 6:09 am

    Freedom, Free, Fired-up, Awesome, Amazing, Inspiring, Huge, Changing Lives, Mentors, Friends, Proud to be Associated, Make a Difference, Community, The best time, What a great weekend, Struggles, Time…..Thank You, Thank You, Thank You, Orrin….high on the kool-aide…Yep Nota thing changes….

  38. whoknew permalink
    November 3, 2011 10:27 pm

    even an ass hole has its significant uses. troy has none. this worthless fella espoused nothing with this 4th rate investigative report. i agree go away.

  39. humiliated permalink
    November 4, 2011 6:23 am

    Never thought of it that way “whoknew” but you make a good point about assholes.

    I guess we need to see really bad “investigative journalistic reports” (and, oh dear God I use that term soooo loosely) in order to truly appreciate the honest, up front, hard hitting,well thought out reports. The only thing that Dooly investigated was how to spin these people’s words of pain, humiliation and despair about how they had been treated, and the reality of MLM, into his own, self serving shlock in which he appears to be some sort of twisted saviour asking everyone “can’t we just all get along”, in order to protect his own ass (hole).The manipulation was/is unforgiveable. I didn’t think it was possible to respect him less, but folks, it IS achieveable!

    And before anyone jumps to his defense, let me make this clear, I believe that if people are truly ignorant about the mathematical reality of this business, they get a “free pass” and are allowed to believe until they stop believing and my heart goes out to them when they have their “aha” moment. However, Brent ,Mike & Vogel have presented more than enough evidence to Dooly who is WELL versed in the ways of MLM and he is CHOOSING to ignore that masses of people are suffering financial and emotional harm in this industry and he is KNOWINGLY helping to support that.

    Just one person’s opinion though.

  40. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    November 4, 2011 8:18 am

    And a fine opinion it is.

  41. February 2, 2012 12:19 pm

    Troy Dooly reviews Orrin’s Resolved book in the following podcast:

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/radioforyourmind/2012/02/02/resolved–13-resolutions-for-life–friendship

    At the beginning of the podcast, he attended the Columbus Leadership Convention. Doesn’t look like he’s “neutral” on the subject anymore?

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