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Reader Letter: On Orrin “Guru” Woodward

October 26, 2011

Here’s a letter from a reader calling himself BadKL. His family recently became involved with TEAM, and BadKL decided to do some independent research on TEAM. He hones in on the oft-quoted “Leadership Guru” title of Orrin Woodward (and Chris Brady), and — like LazyMan and me — comes to the conclusion that it’s a dubious claim.

Minor grammatical changes have been made to the post for better readability.

On Orrin “Guru” Woodward:

One of the biggest pulls I’ve heard the T.E.A.M. Speakers have repeatedly used to numb listeners’ brains and lull them into a false sense of security is by mentioning ad nauseum the fact that Orrin Woodward was named as on of the “Top 10 Leadership Gurus” in the world, though they never mention the source of this ranking or its genuine significance. Well, do a little research (plus follow the link from Woodward’s OWN site) and one finds that it was the Independent Association of Businesses (who?) that hailed Orrin’s blog, which so many of his followers find as inspirational, as one of the best in America.

But wait a tick, he wasn’t actually named a “Leadership Guru” anywhere on this site, it was just his blog that was nominated, by submission from the IABUSA website patrons, as one of the “Top 10 Leadership Websites” for the year 2010. Seriously. Now of course this is probably a minor error from whatever webmaster built this site for Orrin, but it definitely is a comical error which makes his “Guru” claim a little dubious.

Now what does this mean, exactly? Well it means that some small business association, with as far as I can see very little weight or credentials behind it, has had Orrin Woodward’s blog NOMINATED BY THE SITE’S PATRONS as being one of the Top 10 sites for that year. More importantly, the site really only considered American submissions (with one adopted Canadian on the list), it being the IABUSA (tag line “America’s Premier Membership Association”). The direct criteria laid out by the IABUSA of what qualified a website for nomination was that they “develop and influence leaders and leadership throughout American businesses.” The IABUSA site, using the leadership website candidates, held a poll amongst its many, many unique viewers *cough cough* and Woodward’s blog was voted second best to the tune of roughly 15 percent, though leader Jim Collins collected a whopping 33 percent in this very scientific and balanced measurement (which, for those counting at home, had 143 votes).

The claim of him being a “Leadership Guru” is actually sourced from the site leadershipgurus.net, whose criteria for their awards is here. If you take any time to examine the site, you find that it’s just a list site, with “Top 30 Guru” lists for this and that and not a lot of substance. Why do I say that? Because there is no definition of what entitles someone to be a “Guru”, even from the people that supposedly are designating the world’s Top Guru’s! Confusing, no? More importantly they seem to be an end all to themselves, meaning that they can claim whatever they want without much merit or competition, the result being the dearth of other leadership-guru tracker website. I guess when no one else is doing it that makes you the premier adjudicator.

One of the qualifiers for their leadership list is “Guru factor” (no sh*t!), which necessitates further definition since that’s what’s being ranked, correct? But sadly you will not find a further explanation for this murky, je ne sais quoi factor which, even if it provided little impetus in the final evaluation of the candidates, still makes this whole business of appointing leadership gurus a rather unsubstantiated cause. It’s akin to accounting for “swagger” when talking about what (enter sport) (enter position) have the best skill set.

But there must have been some ranking system in place, and I will allow for the fact that leadershipgurus.net did email some 22,000 individuals with business ties (business people, consultants, academics and MBA’s), which is like declaring the winner of the next election by using phone polls. While there might be some genuine truth to the results, the validity of the claim is what is at question here. And clearly, given everything that has been said about Orrin and his nasty habit of building pyramid schemes, personal history wasn’t weighted when it came to evaluating the leadership qualities of these “Gurus”.

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26 Comments leave one →
  1. brent hansen permalink
    October 26, 2011 6:33 pm

    Can I be a “guru”, please please, pick me! hahaha

  2. webelieved permalink
    October 26, 2011 7:01 pm

    I wonder how many of these b.s. manipulations were used on us to keep us in? Years lost believing in this crap!
    Brent I pick you, your smarter and more honest. LOL!

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 26, 2011 7:33 pm

    LOL…Thanks BadKL…Well written and Great Article…Hope you can save your family!

    I clicked the link to the Forbes Article, just for fun and interesting it stated there were 7000 people in attendance at the Major in Columbus Ohio back in June of 2008. Now this past major I have seen it said where there were 8000 people in attendance at this month’s Major.. 3 YEARS and 4 months later…. 7 PC (some quad)… 15 NEW RT and the best they could do is sell an extra 1000 tickets…in 3 YEARS?

    Hahahaha….Seriously….hahahahaha! Their hype on growth is about as believable as the ‘guru status’!

  4. No Team For Me permalink
    October 26, 2011 9:41 pm

    Can someone do some more research here? I think we’re on to something. The Leadershipgurus.net site says it was registered in 2007 (about the time Orrin would have orchestrated something like this if he were behind it).

    But nowhere on the site do I see a listing of who is behind the site. Don’t most companies show who did the research? The Forbes 400, Inc 500, Fortune 500 always pay tribute to the people who did the research. Yet I can’t find any names on this guru.net site.

    Could it be that Orrin himself or one of his friends actually put this site together? I find it hard to believe any legitmate company would have included him as even in the Top 100. He is nowhere in the same league as John Maxwell, Zig Ziglar, Stephen Covey, Brian Tracy, etc. Who else but Orrin himself would have included him in such a survey in the 1st place?

  5. webelieved permalink
    October 27, 2011 4:42 am

    NTFM- Vogel had a post on this. He had who the guru site was registered to and everything, he is a smart dude! If it’s the one I’m thinking of, site was registered in England and had a link back to Arizona…….. he said it was very suspicious! It may be under ex-team in early spring time….. I will try to find it. Speak, Izzy, Vogel, Humiliated do any of you remember?

  6. webelieved permalink
    October 27, 2011 4:59 am

    Will permalink

    February 24, 2011 11:35 pm

    One thing I researched about the FAKE GURU AWARDS on Orrin in Chris that I found interesting was that when you do a search for leadership guru, it is mainly sites of Orrin Woodward that pops up where he has linked to that award site, blogged about, self-promoted it or has some other leader on a friends site tweeting, and blogging about his Grace.

    This tells me that out of the top 25 or 30 leaders that they choose, none of those other leaders even care about the award, know that it exists and there are ZERO credible news sites or reputable organizations that also promote the awards. It is strickly promoted and showcased within the MLM worlds of Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady.

  7. webelieved permalink
    October 27, 2011 5:01 am

    Vogel permalink

    February 25, 2011 8:18 am

    The Leadership Gurus website has all the markings of a scam. The site lists an anonymous contact address at 121 Arundel Road in Birmingham UK – do a Google map search and you’ll see that this is not a commercial property but rather someone’s modest residence. The site lists no contact person or the names of any of the individuals who operate it. The site’s URL was registered anonymously through a proxy domain registry in Scottsdale Arizona (Wild West Domains), which is more than a bit suspect for a company based out of the UK. The domain registration details do not list a contact person; this only occurs when the registrant purposely withholds the information; and it is a red flag.

    You’ve all assessed this quite accurately. It’s a BS shell organization setup to give out meaningless vanity awards so that guys like Woodwart can puff up their resumes and dupe people.

  8. switch permalink
    October 27, 2011 5:54 am

    jackpot!

    Getting better…..and better, everyday.

    pass that popcorn back, webelieved! 😉

  9. Samantha permalink
    October 27, 2011 6:28 am

    Wild West Domains is the service the Team used to register all their round table members’ domains: georgeguzzardo.com, chuckcullen.com, etc.

  10. webelieved permalink
    October 27, 2011 6:34 am

    The plot….ughhh I mean evidence thickens! HAHAHA!!!! This just keeps getting better and better. Amazing when information can flow, and people come together, we all can find out the WHOLE TRUTH how we were decieved! Wow!
    Cannot wait to see what Vogel has to say about this one! 🙂

  11. das permalink
    October 27, 2011 6:44 am

    Information about domain http://www.orrin-woodward-articles.com.

    IP address: 70.60.174.132 domains on IP: 1
    DNS #1: dns2.kaplode.com – 198.30.101.34
    DNS #2: dns.kaplode.com – 198.30.101.34
    Subdomain: count of subdomains: 1
    Hosting location: United States
    Robots: noindex, nofollow
    GTPR: click to show HTML code for this site
    Tree: COM, O, OR, ORR, ORRI
    Owner: Domains by Proxy, Inc. (@)
    Registered: 2004-11-23
    Expire: 2013-11-23
    Registrar: WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.
    Votes: 50%

    here is the link: http://www.pagesinventory.com/domain/www.orrin-woodward-articles.com.html

  12. das permalink
    October 27, 2011 6:58 am

    Domain Name: THE-TEAM.BIZ
    Domain ID: D8149039-BIZ
    Sponsoring Registrar: TUCOWS.COM CO.
    Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 69
    Registrar URL (registration services): whois.opensrs.org
    Domain Status: ok
    Registrant ID: TUTBOSTITGBU2YXN
    Registrant Name: Michael Whytsell
    Registrant Organization: RMR Development
    Registrant Address1: 137 E. Iron Ave
    Registrant City: Dover
    Registrant State/Province: Ohio
    Registrant Postal Code: 44622
    Registrant Country: United States
    Registrant Country Code: US
    Registrant Phone Number: +1.3303433454
    Registrant Email:
    Administrative Contact ID: TUX56JJOR6CQL7T3
    Administrative Contact Name: Orrin Woodward
    Administrative Contact Organization: Signature Management Team
    Administrative Contact Address1: 8250 Embury Rd.
    Administrative Contact City: Grand Blanc
    Administrative Contact State/Province: Michigan
    Administrative Contact Postal Code: 48439
    Administrative Contact Country: United States
    Administrative Contact Country Code: US
    Administrative Contact Phone Number: +1.8107329310
    Administrative Contact Email:
    Billing Contact ID: TUDQHBZMGVZYSCQO
    Billing Contact Name: Orrin Woodward
    Billing Contact Organization: Signature Management Team
    Billing Contact Address1: 4072 Marketplace
    Billing Contact City: Flint
    Billing Contact State/Province: Michigan
    Billing Contact Postal Code: 48507
    Billing Contact Country: United States
    Billing Contact Country Code: US
    Billing Contact Phone Number: +1.8107329310
    Billing Contact Email:
    Technical Contact ID: TUMQIVJLOA3MQU1B
    Technical Contact Name: Orrin Woodward
    Technical Contact Organization: Signature Management Team
    Technical Contact Address1: 8250 Embury Rd.
    Technical Contact City: Grand Blanc
    Technical Contact State/Province: Michigan
    Technical Contact Postal Code: 48439
    Technical Contact Country: United States
    Technical Contact Country Code: US
    Technical Contact Phone Number: +1.8107329310
    Technical Contact Email:
    Name Server: DNS.KAPLODE.COM
    Name Server: DNS2.KAPLODE.COM
    Created by Registrar: WILD WEST DOMAINS, INC.
    Last Updated by Registrar: TUCOWS.COM CO.
    Last Transferred Date: Mon Jan 02 16:02:18 GMT 2006
    Domain Registration Date: Mon Nov 08 17:01:41 GMT 2004
    Domain Expiration Date: Wed Nov 07 23:59:59 GMT 2012
    Domain Last Updated Date: Wed Jul 27 20:03:15 GMT 2011

  13. das permalink
    October 27, 2011 6:59 am

    Yep, self promoted leadership GURU!

  14. webelieved permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:13 am

    das you should look up the new LIFE website! LOL!!!!!!!

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:19 am

    Orrin has been exsposed once again! What a wacked narcissist!

    I think Orrin should be telling everyone he is ‘self-proclaimed and self-promoted.’ and makes this stuff up about himself.. instead of MISLEADING tens of thousands into believing he is something only he makes up!!!

    Does he need attention that bad and has to resort to boosting his own EGO that he has to FAKE IT..the more that gets exsposed the sicker he looks.

    I thought Character was MORE important than Reputation… in their dellusional world?..hahahaha..FAKER

    Thanks for the confirmation Samantha & Das!

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:41 am

    That read wrong…Reputation to them is OBVIOUSLY more important than Character…but then we already knew they were liars.

  17. switch permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:43 am

    ….it’s like Christmas morning all over again. 🙂

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 27, 2011 7:52 am

    BTW~

    Does Orrin & Chris get their teams stripped from them and distributed now that he has breached his OWN contract and brought extreme embarrassement to LieF by creating their own ‘guru status’. It seems this would be evidence and grounds to terminate the FAKE gurus. Why didn’t he add in the rest of the PC as gurus?..lol..would it have been too obvious? No he just has to fake people out to think usually only HE is the one, the greatest, the best and is above all…hahahahaha

    Do their wives just play along because they don’t want to give up their $$$ or do they know the truth? And their children?…Such horrible ‘Christian’…examples these fakers and liars are.

  19. Vogel permalink
    October 27, 2011 8:17 am

    ROFL. You guys are awesome! Knowledge is power! Keep up the good fight.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 27, 2011 10:04 am

    DAS~

    Thanks a bunch for the FIND!!!! Hahahaha FAKERS! I seriously can’t stop laughing at how sick and twisted and what lenghts these guys will stoop too! They have no shame!!! 🙂

  21. October 27, 2011 1:21 pm

    Am I missing something, or did you guys actually find proof that Orrin registered the leadershipgurus.net domain via wildwest domains?

    Don’t get me wrong, I am with all of you and certain he is probably behind the this fake guru ranking system, but I haven’t seen proof from anyone yet that Orrin, Team or any of his business associates actually registered the domain, unless I overlooked a post above. If so, please let me know. If there is proof, I will have to go crack open a bottle to celebrate as this will be a huge VICTORY in showing the world what a narcissistic joker we are dealing with here.

    The sites you showed above are simply Orrin Woodward news sites or the official http://www.the-team.biz website, which have nothing to do with the leadershipguru.net site.

  22. October 27, 2011 1:26 pm

    Ok, I see where webelieved quoted Vogel’s research about the leadershipguru.net domain being registered with Wild West Domains.

    I agree with Vogel that this is “suspect” of a UK company using an obscure registration service out of Arizona. This is highly unlikely.

    It is not definitive proof, however, it is safe to say that the true owner behind the domain of leadershipguru.net is most likely the same person that Team uses to register and host their other company websites.

    Good find indeed!!

  23. das permalink
    October 27, 2011 2:18 pm

    Will, I was simply confirming what Samatha had already stated about Wild West Domains Inc. There is no owner of the site leadershipgurus.net used to promote our HERO or they are anonymous.

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 27, 2011 4:41 pm

    das~

    He is still a phony and a faker…..hahahaha

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    October 28, 2011 12:34 pm

    Holy Crap…lmao…You all have to go to Anna Banana’s website and check out the video! The link is on the right on here: “How to Get Rid of An Amway Salesman”

    Just picture the ‘guy’ (salesman).. as your upline or one of the ‘gurus’….that is histerical!

Trackbacks

  1. Arthur Carmazzi: The Truth Behind LeadershipGurus.net, Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady « AMTHRAX

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