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Life Inc: A College Degree Is Worth $1 Million Dollars

November 18, 2011

No, not that LIFE company, but MSNBC’s Life Inc. blog talks about a new Census Bureau study that answers the question, “How much is a college degree worth?”

According to the Bureau study, “a college degree is worth about $1 million in additional lifetime earnings compared with a comparable work with only a high school diploma.”

Median Annual Earnings by Age and Education Attainment

I wonder if the Bureau would like to do a study on how much a college degree is worth more over a LIFE TEAM education.

Readers – comments, thoughts?

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21 Comments leave one →
  1. brent hansen permalink
    November 18, 2011 11:08 am

    THE EXPENSE:

    When compared to a college education at a public school, the expense for Life will be about the same as tuition and fees but the outcome will be much different. Tuition and fees at a 4 year public college average around $7,605.00 per year, which is around $633.00 per month, or just over $30,000 for a 4 yr bachelors degree.

    To be fully engaged with Life it will cost you very similar to the same amount. Between subscription packages, BDS tickets, tickets for major functions, open meetings, meals, hotels and travel, you can expect to invest at least $633.00 per month in your ‘Life’ degree.

    THE RETURN:

    Those who are willing to invest 4 years in a higher education can expect to experience a significantly lower unemployment rate, higher average earnings over a lifetime, and a real ability to earn a living wage. As a matter of fact, even with the current unemployment rate at
    9.7% those with a 4 year degree are only experiencing a 4% unemployment rate. This would indicate that 96% of people with a degree are able to earn a living wage.

    For those who choose to invest the same amount of time and money with Life, there is around a 1% chance that they will be able to earn a living wage. As a matter of fact, their Life business will become a very expensive hobby or habit, and it will take a significant portion of dollars from their earnings from a JOB just to support their ‘side’ business.

    It interests me how marketers make fun of those who have jobs, yet fail to realize that anything they earn is derived from the jobs that are held by those people in their groups. Something to think about is the fact that MLM is probably the purest form of capitalism available on the planet. It is dog eat dog, and those who survive will rise to the top.
    The biggest fallacy is the fact that when marketers pitch their deal they pitch it as the purest form of socialism ever to exist. They paint a wonderful Utopian picture of how everyone can be happy and eat bonbons together as they all skip down the path to success together, when MLM is the exact opposite of that.

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 18, 2011 2:23 pm

    Brent~

    Great Article. Don’t forget the ‘Fun’, the ‘Fitness’ the ‘Faith’, the ‘Family’ History,’ ‘Leadership’.. You Choose the subjects, what you want to study and don’t have to be subjected to undue influence.. through peer group pressure to buy into any ‘one’ political views, religious beliefs, propaganda or agenda, Oh and you can learn about ‘Following’! 🙂

    And most importantly you are allowed to ‘Question’ thoughts and ideas, and they encourage you to ‘think’ critically (prerequisite)…especially on your own!

    Interesting you say;

    (College) “This would indicate that 96% of people with a degree are able to earn a living wage.”

    (LIEf) “For those who choose to invest the same amount of time and money with Life, there is around a 1% chance that they will be able to earn a living wage.”

    It is too obvious and too sad that people fall for the ‘too good to be true’ wealth beyond your wildest dreams, financial free ‘opportunity’ with LIEf; when the numbers (facts) prove otherwise.

  3. webelieved permalink
    November 19, 2011 8:19 am

    Take it from someone who believed in Team, made it and then had it stolen by Orrin and Co., college is a better, much safer investment of your time and money! At least a degree they cannot steal! College will pay off for the major majority of people better then Team/Life will. Team/LIFE is a “business” you do not own or control. Read the P&P’s, they are distrurbing. They can take your teams whenever they want, for ANY/ NO REASON and now it says it in black and white!

  4. John Dickinson permalink
    December 15, 2011 12:43 am

    Amthrax,

    For me personally, college and LIFE education have both been beneficial. College does help with getting a job, but LIFE info has helped me to manage my money properly that I make from my job. Unfortunately, I never did take any financial management classes in high school or college. I didn’t even know they existed! So my college has helped me make the money and LIFE info has helped me to keep it so I can grow it!

    I am not sure what they mean by professional degree though. For example, if it has something to do with professional licensing for an electrical engineer, then college isn’t required for this professional degree. This would make it a better value by not going to college and just obtaining a professional degree to make the money on the chart. Some of the comments in the article lead to this definition of a professional degree.

    It’s an interesting article and chart! I just hope my friend who just graduated with a Doctorate degree can make his way up the chart. He just started his first job in research at a teacher’s salary!

    Thanks for the article!
    John Dickinson
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

  5. December 15, 2011 10:05 am

    @John Dickinson – There are some fantastic personal finance blogs and websites that offer this information for free. I recommend you look at them to get a wider perspective on the subject than just the one LIFE provides. Go to Lazy Man’s website and look at the Blogroll links he has in the right-hand sidebar of the site:

    http://lazymanandmoney.com

  6. John Dickinson permalink
    December 15, 2011 11:39 pm

    Thanks for the reference link! I checked a few of the blogs (not all because there are quite a few!) Some look like they apply to certain areas, but some others look too risky.

    Come to think of it, the financial management I learned from LIFE came mostly from the recommended books that can be found anywhere books are sold. Looking back on it, my only introduction to financial management was someone from TEAM recommended the books to me and also through my church (although I learned about finances from TEAM first). No one else ever suggested anything about financial management other than those two entities; not my parents, family, high school, college, friends (including Facebook), coworkers, or even spam email (I just checked!). Since LIFE teaches the same financial management principles that I have found elsewhere (although the books LIFE recommends are more conservative in housing expenses than Dave Ramsey’s suggested housing expenses), then it doesn’t seem like it is a limited view of financial management.

    My positive plug for LIFE is that someone was actually proactive in helping me learn there was a subject of financial management. I am sure I would have eventually found it, but sooner is better than later!

    Thanks for the response Amthrax!

    John Dickinson
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

  7. No Team For Me permalink
    December 16, 2011 5:59 am

    John Dickinson – very interesting that you claim LIFE helped you keep the money you earned from college. LIFE launched on 11-1-11. Don’t mean to sound too skeptical, but we are all aware of several LIFE members who are making bogus posts to try to make LIFE sound good.

    Somehow, it doesn’t add up when you make a statement that LIFE has been so valuable helping you to keep the money you have earned when the company has only been around 6 weeks. Even lottery winners can hang on to the money for 6 weeks.

  8. John Dickinson permalink
    December 17, 2011 9:38 am

    Amthrax,

    I agree that financial management can’t turn around in 6 weeks. If you want to be technically correct on the timeline of where the information was and where it currently is, I was with TEAM before LIFE started so that is where the information was located. Since LIFE started, that information moved from the TEAM website to the LIFE website. The financial management information I learned was first located in TEAM and now is located in LIFE. It doesn’t matter where the information was located, just that it was available.

    This still doesn’t change the fact that a person affiliated with the information personally contacted me first with this information. This was just an observation where many other people who knew me never talked to me about financial matters. Maybe they didn’t think I was worth the time, haha! I personally have passed on some of the information to many people without any connection to TEAM or LIFE.

    In my perspective, this still is a good thing that people with LIFE do, introducing people to financial management principles. People like me can then use it to stop digging themselves deeper into a financial hole!

    The graph above would be interesting to compare with LIFE TEAM education. I sure if you compared apples to apples and took the income from LIFE TEAM and compared it to the other degrees, the majority of people would be less than the bottom curve on the chart. If you took the information from LIFE only (as if a customer was buying the LIFE info and not a LIFE member) and applied it on top of the current income, it is hard to say if that LIFE education would increase their income. I know I have personally received raises at work by directly using the the principles I have learned. I am definitely also keeping more money too!€ In my perspective, keeping more money is more important than earning more money. Once the “keeping more” part is down, then it’s time to work on the “making more” part.

    It is interesting to note the article stated “A Census Bureau news release said the average lifetime difference for a bachelor’s degree vs. a high school diploma was $1 million.” My job income on the chart falls into the above average range and I would hope more people would want to be above average too! It does seem odd to me that some people would want to be average or below average on the income scale, but there are people out there like that.

    One good thing this article points out is that jobs do tend to reward higher degrees with higher pay. Sometimes you just need the higher degree just to get the job!

    Thanks!
    John Dickinson
    ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

  9. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 17, 2011 12:41 pm

    John you stated no one else in your life taught you this information. Could it be you weren’t looking for it? Then you stated you never choose those classes in college which you had that opportunity to do so. I also find it interesting, if you are listening to the Team information then you would learn that there are many true leaders such as Maxwell, Collins, and many other real leaders who don’t get their incomes based around the decpective MLM industry.

    As a side note; there are many books the PC chooses (they controll all the books you read)that meet their agenda and are written by authors who have made it by selling and speaking to the MLM industry, such as Kiyosaki, Paul Zane Pilzer and many others who figured out a long time ago, that there is A LOT of money in the MLM industry and they have made I am sure millions from it (speaking and selling of their books).

    I am not saying their information is bad but they have made a whole lot of money off the industry! So for me personally..they cater to the industry because it is a cash cow and an easy way for them to get thousands of their books sold. I have been at many majors dating clear back to when Orrin was in Amway and saw this myself. As, a matter of fact that is how Kiyosaki got his start with his first book, that if it wasn’t for an old Amway diamond he wouldn’t have gotten or be where he is now. So when it comes to certain authors if they have catered to that industry I will be honest, I don’t take their information as seriously and filter a lot, because of the bias as I would from true Leadership as Maxwell, Collins and many others.

    Most all the millionaires would tell you to seek that information out..”find someone who has the results you want and seek them out”. Find someone who’s results you want in the real world and ask to be mentored and teach you what they know. Most would be honored to share.The books they supply and read are almost 100% different authors (with thee exception of those they wrote and forced through the team people) that you could get at a better cost anywhere, such as Amazon, Ebay, library for free.. etc.

    Understand the Team sought you out because it is a recruiting business and they are always on the hunt, everyone is a prospect as you probably are understanding and seeing for yourself, if you are a ‘builder’. The sole reason is to get you in so they can make money from you; not so that you could ‘keep more of your money’ as Amthrax and anyone else would tell you on here.

    If you had sought this information out because you desired to learn about bettering your finances, rather than wait for it to come through a ‘recruiting internal consumption’ MLM or had the need to better yourself in any area of your life before they recruited you then there is a pletora of information that you could have gotten for free or at a much better price, from your local library and many other resources. You have heard that when the student is ready the teacher appears.

    My point with is what they sell and Team is an unstatinable business where 99% will lose money, it is designed to for you to spend your money, not earn or for others to ‘keep more of their money’ and the information is available for you in so many other ways that you could achieve the same goals and save more of your money.

    Do you understand the comp plan and the odds for you and those who you bring in? Once you understand this, for most they could not in good conscience bring others in, regardless of how ‘good the information appears’.

    The team or now LieF is a middle man, just a book supplier that gets a huge discount on those books and then sells them to you and internally to those at the highest retail price, which then the money flows to the top, along with their seminars and every thing they do and sell that creates profit for the very few at the top.

    The information is not bad, it is the way they deceptively use that information and recruit people. The team and the PC, from our experience of being up close and building it for many years, having our teams and money stolen, have witnessed personally their lack of integrity, ethics and morals, along with the unstainablity and horrendous attrition rates and false hope given we cannot sit back and watch others be damaged without speaking out.

    We also know beyond a shadow of a doubt the loses will certainly be the cause of much sorrow and pain and are more damaging than what seems on the surface of some ‘good information.’ It will be way more of a detriment to all areas of your life than just seeking that information from other sources that don’t have a monetary and other hidden agenda for you to belong. I am not trying to burst your bubble but that is the reality.

    I wish you well, John in your continued learning as most people in the real world are ‘learning’ everyday, contrary to what the Team wants you to believe, from these same authors, and many others including life itself. They don’t have anything ‘exclusive’ as they would want you to believe. They are bettering their lives without the devasting losses, deception and lies that the Team LieF PC have created in the majority of people’s lives that have been a part of them.

    I wish you well.

  10. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    December 17, 2011 12:51 pm

    Welcome to the site John. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I’m glad that you were finally introduced to solid financial principles for the first time, which happened to be through some of the TEAM materials. In some ways, your writing style and demeanor are very similar to what mine was like during the many years when I was on the TEAM. So let me say this upfront again: I’m glad you have learned some good principles that you can apply to your personal finances outside of TEAM/LIFE.

    Most of us on this blog would not disagree with the fact that many of the principles and much of the information contained in the books is solid, time-tested truth. The issue that we all have is that on the TEAM, these solid principles are wrapped around a business model and business leaders who are living a lie and deceiving the masses. Unfortunately, it is not usually until you get close to these individuals that you usually start to see the truth (if you’ve maintained your critical thinking skills), which is why we are so passionate about getting the truth out via this blog.

    On the TEAM, many of these principles get twisted when it comes to real life application in running your “own” business. As you know, many people on the team are struggling with their finances (as are many outside of the TEAM as well). In my experience, what ends up being taught from a personal mentorship standpoint is that you need to control your expenses and find ways to increase your income (see: solid financial principles) IN ORDER to purchase more tools, tickets, gas money, etc. in order to run “your” business. I had many people on my team just trying to get by, and every dollar they were able to save, they ended up putting back into “their” business…so the net out was no better than before.

    Now theoretically, this business “investment” would make sense if you could expect a reasonable return in a reasonable amount of time. However, this is not the case with the vast, high 90%, majority of teamers. Even many of the biggest leaders on the TEAM do not follow what they preach – just read the bankruptcy documents for the Darkangelos, Hubers and Cullins to get a sense of how top level leaders on the TEAM apply this information. You could also read up on Guzzardo and his property foreclosure experience in Arizona, or many of the big leaders’ experiences on this blog where they were encouraged to cash in their 401(k)’s in order to fund their businesses. I would recommend reading Amthrax’s LIFE Primer article for a good start into who these guys really are.

    The ends never justify the means. I’m very glad that you were introduced to some good financial principles (I use many of them myself to this day), but my recommendation now is to take what you learned and run far away from those people. In my experience they are wolves disguised in sheep’s clothing. Their walk most definitely does not match their talk.

    *Note: I put parenthesis around any reference to owning your “own” business, because based on the LIFE policies and procedures, as well as proven through many big leaders’ experiences told on this blog, no LIFE member but Orrin truly owns their business. As the LIFE policies and procedures state, you are a contractor who must do the PC’s bidding. There is no such thing as a pipeline income on the LIEF TEAM.

  11. webelieved permalink
    December 17, 2011 1:55 pm

    I think Speak would agree the info from LIFe cd’s and seminars is not all good.In my opinion after years of involvment, it is indoctination to support the groups beliefs and take away the prospects ability to critically think. The books are picked to support the propaganda to build the team life business. The environment is deceptive, controlling and not healthy for people. Many people will see that and leave sooner rather than later, thank God.
    It also is a build and replace business. I cannot see many people spending hundreds of dollars a month in this economy to stack up a bunch of books on their bookshelves they have not enough time to read, or to continue spending that money when they can get the books for free or next to nothing on a kindle.
    I believe the only way they may sustain it is through deceptive promoting and income claims. Funny if you read LIFE p and ps they cannot show their tax returns interesting …….wonder what they are trying to hide. Of course they are betting no one reads it before they sign it. Also they can take your business for no reason, it says right in the policies. If they did it to the Morgans and the Raatz (which he did), they will do it to anyone!

  12. webelieved permalink
    December 17, 2011 8:17 pm

    Did you read John and Melanie Morgans’ or the Raatz story? Former Round Tables who it seems Orrin and other Pc screwed over, after doing the work?
    here is a link.
    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/a-downlines-perspective-and-request-for-john-and-melanie-morgan/

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 17, 2011 9:12 pm

    webelieved~

    Most defintely. I do not agree with the cd program, which serves as the ‘belief changer’ or creates the ‘cult personalities’ for others with continuous indoctrinating messages and locks people subtly into a closed logic system (to think just like them) to serve the agenda of the team. They are thee smartest and their isn’t anyone who knows about ‘leadership’ more than them. But interesting they have learned all the leadership principles (they don’t follow but expect others to) from the Real Leaders in the Real world.

    Not to mention the majority of cd/ information heard on the cd’s is nothing more than a repeat of the same ole..power player program..buy more cd’s and books..’get on system’ so we can tell you to buy more cd’s and get you to the next seminar or major. Why would anyone pay 6 or 7 bucks for the same repeated information, that is not a wise investment. Buy it once and be done.

    Logically if they ‘promote’ their ‘Top 50’ as the ‘best of the best’ and they are the one’s in the ‘Top 1%’ teaching you, the ‘above average folks’…then WHY would you need another cd? It makes no sense…you supposedly have it all in those ToP 50 to go ‘PC’ and all the ‘motivation’ you would need lol…again just listen to those 50 and you will know all there is to know to go PC.

    But all of us here know WHY they repeat the same information and want you to spend, spend, spend….don’t we. It is called Profit for the PC…no matter how bad the investment or losses for others.

  14. John Dickinson permalink
    December 17, 2011 11:07 pm

    Speak Your Truth – Unfortunately, I never did take any financial management classes in high school or college. I didn’t even know they existed! I definitely wasn’t looking for financial management because I didn’t even know it existed either! From when I was born up to the point I was introduced to TEAM, no one else introduced me to financial management information. Since then I have found a lot of information, even free info from the federal government on how to manage money!

  15. webelieved permalink
    December 18, 2011 5:17 am

    John that is awesome! I think Speak is saying there is a lot of more useful information to be had in the real world outside of the Team. Have you read the story about the Raatz or the Morgans? They were good friends with the Woodwards, Guzzardos and the Marks. They had their teams and money taken by Orrin and Co. after working for over a decade. This group is not what it seems on the surface.

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 18, 2011 8:13 am

    John~

    If you are seeking financial management information and advice there is so much out there by the experts, I would be super cautious in considering any of the mentoring from the team, they have a financial interest in your money being spent on their system. I can honestly tell you we didn’t learn anything that wasn’t common sense and the only ‘money’ they talked about was how much you and everyone else were going to make to ‘solve’ all your financial problems. That cannot simply be the truth, based on the built in failure rates in their comp plan, it is deceptive to tell people that they can have what they have if you do what they have done. Unless John you have been given the same amount of teams that ranked them where they are to make the money they make.

    I sincerely hope you consider what has been said on here and read the bankruptcies and foreclosures from those that were getting direct financial ‘mentorship’ from Orrin and the other PC.

    And worse they never taught anything about running the specific MLM Business they recruit people into and expect them to ‘invest’ all their time, money, and effort and become a lifer, nor any financial management. Rather they spent everyone else’s time trying to ‘motivate’ and trying to keep you in. Their is no excuses they have a monthly seminar and 4 majors a year that they could bring in unbiased people to teach you how to run a legitmate business by educating you on taxes, what you can legally have as write offs, how to manage your business and much more…they are saying they will be the education for American? Then why wouldn’t they start with HOW to run your MLM business legally and not some hypothetical business?

    What specifically has helped you? Has it been a book or are they mentoring you personally and if so what have they taught you?

    I hope you use your common sense, check with others outside on the advice you get before you follow what they tell you and not spend everything you make on their system…Your ‘anyway’ or discretionary income that they want from you. The ‘anyway’ money, there aren’t a lot of people who have a lot of it, in this ecconomy but that is how they used to ‘sell’ you on buying the product; which now is CD’s, books, Seminars, Majors, opens etc…

    This I know John, their walk doesn’t match their talk. John we are not trying to hurt people, quite the contrary. We know the truth and what their intentions are. As long as you continue to spend your money on their system they will prentend they want to help you as soon as you withdrawl that you will find out how much they didn’t care. So, I hope you continue to seek information outside of them and get advice from the true experts, find someone (outside of team completely) financial advisor, whom you could ask for help on financial management.

    If you seek you will find. Good Luck.

  17. John Dickinson permalink
    December 24, 2011 8:59 am

    What specifically helped me the most was “The Richest Man in Babylon” book, “God’s Plan for Your Finances” book, and “The Four Laws of Debt Free Prosperity” book which has been renamed to “The 4 Laws of Financial Prosperity” book. I received a little personal finance mentoring from someone in my upline a few years ago (who quit associating with TEAM later), but they only helped me see where I was wasting money. The books came after that and were what really helped me put it all together. Some of the stuff in the books I don’t agree with either though because it doesn’t fit with my plans.

  18. No Team For Me permalink
    December 25, 2011 10:38 am

    John,
    Those books are available through other sources (Amazon, bookstores, etc), along with so many more. And you can choose which ones you want.

    But after the ‘financial mentoring’ from Orrin & Co, my annual cashflow was over $30,000 lower than it was before all this great ‘counseling’. I have all the financial records to prove it in case it ever goes to court.

    The mentoring boils down to – do whatever it takes to move as many tools as possible. If it was true financial counseling, they would have been telling people to purchase those same books cheaper on Amazon, or to buy the cd’s on ebay where the same cd’s were being unloaded for pennies on the dollar.

  19. Finally permalink
    December 26, 2011 11:41 am

    The principles they teach are timeless, the way they use them are evil. The devil know the scriptures and uses them to deceive, the same way team knows the correct principles and uses them to manipulate and coerce their teams into buying more cd’s and books from them to profit. I had an interesting conversation with one of Matin’s downline, he actually used to buy multiple copies of system books from amazon at a discount and sell them to his team at the team (full) price. How is that looking out for your best interest?

    Their mentoring is illegal. They give financial advice and are not professionally qualified to give it and they should be held legally responsible for all the train wrecks they have caused. They venture into marriage counseling and ask extremely personal stuff and then use that against you. I know from my conversations with other team members that they have counseled a wife to leave a husband, another one of Jim and Dolores victims. I knew the couple casually and their mutual friend told me the details. How can two people advise someone to do that, when they themselves have a rocky marriage. Our up line told many intimate details of others marital problems and went so far as to make fun of some of the things they heard in “counseling” sessions………..that, is BAD. So for all who read this site and wonder if they are who they say they are on stage I can tell you emphatically……..THEY ARE NOT. Many on here know this, and more are coming on to confirm this.

    I have been at majors where they talk endlessly about character and being a Christian, even doing the service on Sunday and yet while they are preaching on Sunday about christianity they have broken every principle they are teaching for the previous two days. I know again, for a fact, that Orrin and Chris used their influence to turn people against Pastor Dickie and Berean Church. Chris went so far as to say, I wouldn’t walk from Berean…….i would run from Berean. How is that Godly???? And all because Pastor Dickie expressed is concerns about the business to Orrin. Orrin is a pathological liar, and Chris and Tim and the other PC are spineless lemmings. They follow blindly for profit and coerce and intimidate others to do the same. They are dangerous. The good news is that God i in control and justice will be served. They can hide for a short time but all that they have done will catch up to them. In the form of legal, mental and physical problems. PC wives have a multitude of medical issues, probably brought on by stress from lying all of these years. Many have suffered due to their selfish ways, and a few have found refuge and understanding here. Spread the word my fiends, let others read for themselves and come to their own conclusions. We know the truth and if it be Gods will the world will know it too someday. Hopefully through a nice court trial………….

  20. December 26, 2011 2:15 pm

    @john dickinson – A professional degree is something like a MD (doctor) or DDS (dentist). A professional license for being an electrician is not in the same league. Clearly, a college degree is required as a prerequisite for getting a professional degree.

  21. John Dickinson permalink
    January 8, 2012 10:30 am

    Amthrax,

    I was referring to a Professional Engineer (P.E.) and I just chose the electrical field as an example. An electrician and P.E. with electrical emphasis are definitely two different areas of expertise. My point is that if you can make the same amount of money as a P.E. without any degree as someone who has a professional degree from a college, then the non-degreed P.E. route is a better value than a professional degree route. This scenario gives a higher rate of return since there is no cost for college.

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