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Counting the Freedom You Have By Not Joining LIFE TEAM

November 21, 2011

Considering joining or leaving the LIFE TEAM of Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, George Guzzardo, Dan Hawkins, Bill Lewis, and Claude Hamilton? Think you’ll really get your freedom by being part of the TEAM? If you believe the ex-TEAM members who have been commenting on this site, you’ll see that you may have less freedom in the LIFE TEAM than you would being out of it?

Frequent commenter webelieved listed the following ways that being out of LIFE TEAM gives you more freedom.

  1. I am finally free of major brainwashing by the TEAM machine. (Now called LIFE Team).
  2. I am free to think for myself!
  3. Free to be a real leader!
  4. Free to show my real character by telling the truth even when it hurts a lot!
  5. Free to have feelings and thoughts that are my own!
  6. Free to have time with my family and loved ones again!
  7. Free to tell the truth of my experiences!
  8. Free to know every little thing we do in life MAKES A DIFFERENCE and more of a difference then being a leader with Team.
  9. Free to know Time with loved ones is the most important thing in life and if we work 24/7 for the team lie, we will lose precious time we will never back, as well as have many painful regrets.
  10. Free to tell you one day I woke up and the ladder was against the wrong wall.
  11. Free to know chasing a dream of wealth and signifigance through Team is a lie and will let you down.
  12. Free to live for God instead of for Team!
  13. Free to read any book I want.
  14. Free to listen to music and watch movies without guilt.
  15. Free to laugh and have fun again and know that is healthy.
  16. Free to talk to ANYONE I want to and say whatever I want
  17. Free to learn whatever I want
  18. free to say what I want, free to sleep
  19. free to eat when I want.
  20. I am free to enjoy holidays that I used to dread when I was indoctrinated.
  21. Free to take vacations when I want for as long as I want.
  22. Free to enjoy every weekend of the year with my family.
  23. Free to not have to attend 12 saturdays, 52 tues, 3 weekends a year and days and days and nights of meetings full of indoctrination and Team think.
  24. Free to not have to spend all my money on Team events and propaganda.
  25. Free to not have to live in confusion. Free to be clear thinking again and know my opinion, experiences, and feelings are valid and matter.
  26. Free to not hate outsiders.
  27. Free to love and take an interest in people with no adgenda.
  28. Free to deeply care about people and appreciate their differences and opinions
  29. Free to deeply love and appreciate my family again without my distorted view of the outside world that was indoctrinated into me by team propaganda.
  30. Free to know life has positive and negative and it isn’t healthy to hide the negative
  31. Free to know hiding negative truth is manipulating people
  32. Free to tell you edification is being used in team to manipulate prospects and followers and to create a feeling of euphoria, most of it is false or only surface
  33. Free to tell you omitting information is deceptive and wrong.
  34. Free to value other people’s opinions that are outside the group Team.
  35. Free to enjoy staying home every night and spend time my family instead of going to some love bombing b.s. meetings where decieving leaders speak and pretend they give a dam.
  36. Free to know what they really want is my money and time to further their adgenda.
  37. Free to do whatever the hell I want and not feel guilty that I am not serving my team.
  38. Free to not have to spend hours sometimes days away from my family “help” someone in my team
  39. Free to not have to manipulate relationships anymore to build my business.
  40. Free to not think about my business 24/7, Free to not have to check voicemail/team site/messages and answer calls all day
  41. free to not have to run the minute my upline calls
  42. Free to rest and relax, Free to not be on autopilot everday
  43. Free to tell the truth of what I really know and feel about my upline, instead of covering the truth for him
  44. Free to not have to report in to my upline what I am doing, thinking.
  45. I am Free to not tell upline fake counselors/mentors with no training, about my marriage, my kids, my life, my work, or anything else all of which is none of their dam business.
  46. Free to not have to walk on eggshells and conform because some chicken shit is going to report upline on what they percieve I am or am not doing
  47. Free to get together with anyone in or out of Team whenever and wherever the hell I feel like it.
  48. Free to know crosslining is a way for a destructive group to control people and information and hide secrets from followers and now I will crossline with whoever the hell I want to
  49. Free to not be talked about behind my back by a bunch of chicken shit ninnies who don’t have enough balls to speak to my face
  50. Free to not be manipulated by people pretending they give a shit.
  51. Free to see now that trust is earned not freely given.
  52. Free to not waste any more of my precious time living a lie.
  53. Free to know that I am smart enough and good enough I don’t need some dam stranger to judge me or tell me what I need to do.
  54. Free to not give strangers influence over my life just because they appear to be good and someone said they were good. Free to not place a man (orrin or they system) and his thinking ABOVE my own.
  55. Free to know God made me good enough. He made me perfectly the way he wants me and I am valuable in his eyes.
  56. I am free to say their will be many false teachers and Orrin is one of them.
  57. Free to remeber God is bigger then Orrin, and He is the one I will follow…. his Book, and his teachings on leadership, not Orrin’s manipulating b.s. His good book is free for the taking.
  58. Free to never put a man between me and God ever again.
  59. Free to not put a work above God. Free to say they are not following Christ, far from it.
  60. Free to tell you they teach you to hate and judge anyone that isn’t involved.
  61. Free to hold my head high everywhere I go because God set me free from this Cult.
  62. Free to know I don’t have to hide their lies anymore!
  63. Free to know if you cannot tell the whole truth and you have to hide things, then you shouldn’t be doing it.
  64. Free to tell you the Team is using the Bible and scripture to perpetuate lies and God does not approve
  65. I am free to tell you I have been spiritually, financially and emotionally raped to my core by this dam scam and I am tired of it!
  66. Free to tell you I believe God will have justice and I am just one of his humble imperfect servants.
  67. Free to tell you residual income on team is a LIE!
  68. Free to tell the world Orrin and his PC loser stole my teams and my money after years of promises and of work and loyalty building communities! Not a phone call, nothing.
  69. Free to tell you some team PC are BULLIES!
  70. Free to tell you Orrin is using undue influence and deception to get you to work and make almost all of the money for him and his PC.
  71. Free to tell anyone I want that I have spoken to cult experts and Team fits the definition of a cult!
  72. Free to tell you the system is destructive to your mind and soul and the deeper and longer you get into the system, the worse it is.
  73. Free to say Loyalty and Conformity are the most important attributes they are looking for, not integrity like they say.
  74. Free to say they opperate almost the same as the moonies.
  75. Free to tell you they don’t want leaders who can think for themselves they want followers who are dependent on them. Dependent on them financially and in their minds. That way they can control, manipulate and keep them and their money flow.
  76. I am free to tell you narcsissists love power, control, and the ego stroking and attention they get from their followers the money is a side benefit.
  77. Free to tell you everyone is a number to Orrin and it seems he deeply cares about no one. He only cares about where you are spending your money, your time and your adoration.

*All the above are my opinions and experiences being involved with Team and Orrin Woodward and company.

Ex-TEAM: What other ways are you free now that you are out of TEAM’s sphere of influence?

45 Comments leave one →
  1. das permalink
    November 21, 2011 2:32 pm

    Awesome post!! Freedom isn’t free, I paid the price too, and learned a very valuable lesson. I will never be scammed by another MLM company no matter how much I trust that friend or relative. Just because they believe in a lie does not make it the truth.

    Keep up the good work Webelieved!

  2. webelieved permalink
    November 21, 2011 2:49 pm

    Comment removed at the request of the author.

  3. webelieved permalink
    November 21, 2011 3:32 pm

    127. Free have a job if I want and to be proud of it. To trade time for money.
    128. Free to know they have lied for years when showing us the plan and still are about residual pipeline income.
    129. Free to see in writing in their contract they are crooks and control freaks.
    130. Free to see PC arrogance and egos are bigger then the empire state building and it is wrong
    131. Free to know when a person is truly humble, they don’t have to say it
    132. Free to see when the are humble they don’t have to brag about their acomplishments or have their followers brag them up
    133. Free to see the double talk in team i.e. college is a waste of money, yet Orrin and Chris use their college degrees and awards for credibility all the time. Just one of many examples
    134. Free to see hypocrisy between Orrin and PC’s words and their actions.
    135. Free to see Orrin and other PC are not following God’s word because they continue to lie and are not repenting
    136. Free to see Team is a pyramid scheme keeping the guys at the top rich.
    137. Free to see my family needs me more then anything
    138. Free to see that if Jesus lived with nothing, had time to hang out with sinners, loved people who didn’t deserve it, and didn’t charge people money for his teachings, in fact he fed them, If the Lord did that with his time then chasing a dream of money and all the riches of the world with Team, is exactly the opposite of what I am to do with my time.
    139. Free to see God’s word says he wants me to rely on him for all my needs and be grateful and content with what I have. Not kill myself and lie to keep my influence, money and belongings.
    140. Free to see my integrity is more important then my reputation.
    141. Free to see anyone who stands up for the truth will be attacked and slandered and yet it is ok, because they show who they really are through those actions.
    142. Free to see Orrin and co. are hypocrites when they teach you leaders are positive and then attack critics character because they cannot argue with the facts at hand.
    143. Free to know that Team leaders are COWARDS who do not allow critics on their blogs. Amthrax does! He isn’t afraid.
    144. Free to know it is wrong to hide information.
    145. Free to see God is in control of all of this and they have trapped themselves by their own misdeeds, actions and lies. Now they are trying to cover their butts and it isn’t working because the truth always finds you out.
    146. Free to know THE TRUTH SETS YOU FREE!

    This year I am most thankful for freedom and all of my friends standing up for the truth here! We live in the greatest free country in the world! Let us remember who and what God has placed in our lives, and be grateful!
    Have a safe and Happy Thanksgiving! 🙂

    *All above are my opinions and experiences with Team and Orrin Woodward.

  4. webelieved permalink
    November 21, 2011 3:40 pm

    Das- It is amazing how the simplest things mean so much once you are free. I hope to never take life for granted again. I want to learn to value every second God gives me. I read a really good book called Take Time for Your Life from a real life coach who helps people figure out what they want out of their lives, wow was it an eye opener. It showed me how I wasn’t living an authentic life being true to my deepest desires, my dreams, and using the talents God gave me with the Team . I had given them all up in the team cult and changed my dreams to their dreams. It really helped open my eyes. I think I will read it again.

  5. webelieved permalink
    November 21, 2011 3:47 pm

    should have said I wasn’t using talents when I was with the Team. In fact I stuffed them all.

  6. Vogel permalink
    November 21, 2011 4:41 pm

    There’s 146 reasons why you are infinitely more qualified to be a leader than anyone in the Monavie/TEAM organization. You have honesty, integrity, and heart.

    You’ve earned the respect and admiration of everyone here.

  7. Grover Lembeck permalink
    November 21, 2011 5:32 pm

    See, just what I was talking about in the thread with CarlW! Webelieved is willing to put it out there, and LEAD the way, showing other former members of TEAM the path to liberty.

    That’s leadership, and it can’t be taught. Manipulation can be taught, but leadership is always honest, while manipulation is always dishonest. If someone is lying to people, they may be in charge, but that does not make them a leader.

  8. Dorothy permalink
    November 21, 2011 5:53 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  9. Dorothy permalink
    November 21, 2011 5:59 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  10. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 21, 2011 6:25 pm


  11. November 21, 2011 6:51 pm

    27, 138, 139, 146…A-MEN!!!

  12. November 21, 2011 7:00 pm

    Here’s some of my own:

    1. Free to chase my own dreams (family and learning different stuff)
    2. Freedom from constant pressure of commercialism
    3. Free from having to convince Hubby and freedom from having my upline harrass my husband
    4. Free to work out my own relationship with Hubby instead of my upline telling me to not listen to him
    5. Free from feeling discouraged because I’m not getting any recruits, and freedom from pressure to stay in even though I showed my upline credit card statements saying my credit’s maxing out
    6. Free to spend my money on how I ***WANT*** to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Here’s some very valuable lessons I’ve learned: It’s okay to say no ~ Mother Nature provides for you so much more than materialism can ever provide ~ Real success in life is when you accomplish an area of your life ~ True happiness comes from within, not in the almighty dollar.

    Thank you, Webelieved for this lovely post.

  13. switch permalink
    November 21, 2011 7:22 pm

    About as powerful as it gets, right there.

    A job well done, webelieved!

  14. webelieved permalink
    November 21, 2011 7:45 pm

    Izzy- I love reading your perspective, it is so helpful to me. I am so glad you got out. Thanks for sharing.

    Thanks guys, I just am so moved to tell the truth. I don’t care what they try to do to me. People need to know the bondage. And some won’t recognize it, because it is worse and worse the higer up the ladder you go. If you are in front of people publically for team you are controlled and have to conform your behavior and thinking. The guilt and pressure to conform is astonishing…… the leader phrases……..A leader blah blah blah. A leader blah blah blah. A real leader blah blah blah.

    In team there is this fantasyland buildup of people, stages, lights. edification, recognition, you’re treated like you are something special. But it is all fake stroking of your ego. It is weird when you come out and you’re just like the rest of the world except now you are with people who were once the enemy. Some of your close friends stayed with Team and don’t talk to you, it’s like you don’t exist, some slander you. Your friends not in team went on with their lives in the real world. It’s like you don’t fit anywhere. No more speaking, teaching, busyness, etc. Your in nowhere land for awhile, your just a nobody (in a good way), just like most of the rest of the world. But by going back to being a nobody you become a real somebody with more compassion and less hate, judgment and arrogance.

    (and to the critics I didn’t think I was some hotshot I actually was humble and thought I was like everyone else so don’t try to twist what I say) I remember when I was sick i had to sit around and I watched a movie and it was like being in a foreign country. Disorienting really. It was weird. That is how much I worked and how much of a fantasyland I was in. No fun. I missed years in the real world… no news, tv, magazines, movies, sports, music, …….. It’s like being on the moon. Weird.

    But now I am back to normal in my thinking and close relationships……good thing thought reform wears off. It’s really quite embarassing now to tell you the truth I did pretty much everything they told me to. Now I am a rebel ! LOL!
    Speaking of movies, anyone have any suggestions on really good movies in say the past decade? I love all kinds. 🙂

  15. Vogel permalink
    November 21, 2011 9:45 pm

    Number 1 recommendation for everyone here is the MLM mockumentary “Believe”. You’ll break a rib laughing.

  16. humiliated permalink
    November 22, 2011 5:17 am

    Amazing post Webelieved. One that really resonated with me was #75 “.Free to tell you they don’t want leaders who can think for themselves they want followers who are dependent on them. Dependent on them financially and in their minds. That way they can control, manipulate and keep them and their money flow.”

    You really made me think that because of the criticism TEAM received and the perception of people “following” (aka cult), they created LIEF so that it would be different in appearance only, but not in principal. They switch it so that now you are no longer a “follower” but believe that they are teaching you to “lead”, but really the game is exactly the same! Very good point and I think that TEAMSTERS really need to understand that.

    Vogel, I have watched that clip before and it makes me giggle every time. I will have to watch the whole movie!

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone! We had ours (in Canada) in October but I am with you in spirit!!

  17. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    November 22, 2011 6:28 am

    Way to go believed!!! I especially LOVE #49!! RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ain’t that the truth!!!

  18. webelieved permalink
    November 22, 2011 6:38 am

    …. leadership, and it can’t be taught. Manipulation can be taught, but leadership is always honest, while manipulation is always dishonest. If someone is lying to people, they may be in charge, but that does not make them a leader.- Grover

    What a beautiful statement about leadership

  19. webelieved permalink
    November 22, 2011 7:01 am

    Quit- HAHA!!! Chickens can really leave a pile of crap behind hey?

    I would love to contront them in public for their bullshit lies about me and down right abuse! Ha ! Run PC run. You are found out…….your gig it up. I am stronger now and you can’t force me to shut up! You don’t own me and you NEVER will again. I will say whatever the hell I want wherever I want to whomever I want to, for the rest of my life. On a mountain top if I want. I don’t live in a communist country! YOU DON’T OWN ME!!!

    God is watching you and you have stood by and allowed abuse, lying, cheating and stealing to happen and He will hold you accountable. Stand on the truth even if you have to leave all your riches behind, you will feel better about yourself when you are free. It’s a feeling all the riches in the world cannot give you, it’s called self respect.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 22, 2011 7:39 am


    WoW..Great Posts! All who have walked this journey can relate on a very deep level to everyone one of the True Freedoms you listed out. Been away for a bit and come back to read some very interesting discussions. Thanks all for being here and sharing!

    I am proud of you for using your voice and your freedom to share your truth, thanks. I am grateful you are now truly, free! 🙂

  21. webelieved permalink
    November 22, 2011 9:13 am

    “You really made me think that because of the criticism TEAM received and the perception of people “following” (aka cult), they created LIEF so that it would be different in appearance only, but not in principal. They switch it so that now you are no longer a “follower” but believe that they are teaching you to “lead”, but really the game is exactly the same! Very good point and I think that TEAMSTERS really need to understand that.’ Humiliated

    Exactly! You get it. It is the same as it has been for a decade and a half ony a different name and now the tool busines became a self help mlm and they dropped the other products. The tool business/cd, books and ticket sales are now pitched up front as the product and therefore a little less deceptive then before because unlike before, they are actually telling you tools are the product. It will be very interesting to see how it pans out. I cannot imagine too many healthy people in the real world saying you are the savior of my life, I am going to spend all my money so you can tell me how to live. But prospects that are the most suseptible to cults, people that are in a crisis in their life, are plentiful in today’s economy. ie: no job, new location, college, divorce etc. They are looking for support and find it in this group, what they don’t know is the behavior of the leaders and the heirarchy will slowly strip them of their identity and life.

    They are still selling the business the same. What if you could get your time back, mansions, give to charity and make a difference. Use a system and duplicate to have a residual, passive, ongoing income, btype business, pipeline, stop trading time for money. That is the hook.Funny they are outright lying and decieving people by saying that and their P&P prove it! I am glad they wrote the P&P the way they did. It really shows how controlling they are. They believe they have a right to control you and your family members’ behavior or they take your income and teams. Sadly, followers will ignore this because they trust them. Many won’t read the P&P’s and that is what Life is banking on, I am sure. They pushed life out fast because we were telling the truth about the tool business that they hid for 12+years. We were telling the truth of their deceptive practices. So they needed to come out publically with LIFE, before followers read this site and find out they have been conned all these years.

    I think their own lies and their comp plan will become the death of them. Self help is not a marketable product long term for a noname like Orrin, in today’s marketplace. John Maxwell and Chuck Swindoll are so much better and more credible, more accesible, cheaper and in some cases free. Some people will realize this when the promise of a profit doesn’t materialize. Brent and Mike’s number crunching is helpful to warn prospects ahead of time as well as show current followers the PC are keeping most of the money for themselves and living off the masses, still.

    Although I am concerned followers are already indoctrinated and Orrin will pay them a pitence just like the Amway discounts and people will stay making $20 hoping someday they will make it. What they don’t realize is even if they make money, this is a damaging destructive group. With a controlling heirarchy and they will have to give up who they are and what they believe in, and do whatever their upline wants to try and keep their money.

    It is more controlling and dangerous then before, because now Orrin, George, Chris, Bill, Claude, Dan have ALL the power to do whatever they want, to whomever they want. Now there are no checks and balances, noone to police them. They are free to do whatever they want, say what they want, lie all they want. Steal groups all they want for whatever reason they want. They are free to rearrange groups, give out freebies secretly to their conformers etc. Free to drag you into arbitration for the rest of your life and free to gag you forever. So if your a leader and they don’t like you, you are screwed. You better do whatever they ask, even if unethical. ie: telling your group to cut off MV autoship, solicit your MV downline out of your MV line of sponsorship without waiting required 6 months , then register in LIFE with the wrong sponsor, thereby stealing distributors and their volume from other people. Leaders do all of this and justify it to themselves so they don’t have to feel bad that they have no integrity. They’ve been telling themselves they are ethical and folllowing leaders who have integrity.

    Now if they know what Team has done to steal from other leaders who are gone from Team, they will have a very real FEAR they will do it to them, so they chose to follow. What they know deep down they sold their sould to keep their money and stay in the group, but the crack is there. The pressure to conform and do what your upline wants is even worse then before and now the leaders will be abused mentally at a deeper level by the ones in power.
    I can only hope and pray leaders who are reading this site and this post and start to see through the brainwashing. It is VERY powerful and very destructive. I hope they come out and start telling the truth. I hope they read this post and say they are right. I am a part of stealing from families, lying, and I have been decieving myself and others. This is wrong. God is watching.
    * All of the above are my experiences and opinions of Orrin, Team organization. etc.

  22. webelieved permalink
    November 22, 2011 9:15 am

    Vogel- Thanks for the laughs! That is hilarious and sadly brings back memories. I’m going to watch it again! 🙂

  23. November 22, 2011 1:27 pm

    Regarding the video, I remember being answered with all kinds of answers but not really the answers. Oftentimes they’d turn into teaching sessions like illustrations and anecdotes. The pyramid scheme question answer I got from my upline was “Pyramid schemes are illegal” then she’d get on with her presentation.

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 22, 2011 3:47 pm

    Thanks for the humor Vogel…doesn’t get anymore accurate.. added to the other video on here of course…lol. You always pull through at the right time. How embarrassing all of us cult followers looked.

  25. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    November 22, 2011 7:46 pm

    Amazing posts webelieved and others! It feels so great to get the truth out!

    Another awesome post by Orrin on the 21st. His analogy of downside risk versus upside potential is phenominal (although I think he missed webelieved’s 146 freedoms he has since quiting LIFE..)

    My favorite is the following:

    “I have taken my share of criticism for not going along with the herd in networking. I have refused repeatedly to sell out my character for conveniences. This has cost me money, time, and relationships over the years, since, in my opinion, some of my former heroes chose to sell out rather than fight for what is right. Anytime someone desires to change the rules of the future, he will be attacked by the protectors of the past. I have received, and will continue receiving personal attacks for changing the rules. However, although they can attack my reputation, they cannot touch my character. Better they criticize me than I be them. The only people calling LIFE a scam are fearful competitors or woefully ignorant individuals. Make no mistake, I will never surrender my principles for peace. I believe that it’s more noble to create the new, rather than criticize the old, so LIFE is our opportunity to do so.”

    Will love to hear the comments from the “sell outs” 🙂

  26. webelieved permalink
    November 22, 2011 8:46 pm

    Orrin- You need a check up from the neck up with a really good Mental Health Dr. if you really believe all you say. WOWzer!
    Arrogant and dellusional!

  27. Dorothy permalink
    November 22, 2011 9:23 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  28. Dorothy permalink
    November 22, 2011 9:37 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  29. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 22, 2011 10:16 pm

    Was it Hitler?

  30. Dorothy permalink
    November 22, 2011 10:20 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  31. Vogel permalink
    November 22, 2011 10:22 pm

    Speak Your Truth: “How embarrassing all of us cult followers looked.”

    Maybe so, but look at you now. I’m proud of what you’ve all become — a force for truth and righteousness. And while we may seethe every now and then, there’s a lot of compassion here. We all want to see that justice and the best interests of society are served.

  32. November 23, 2011 3:57 am

    Old Woody Face ain’t delusional, he’s just desperate because his ending is near, so he’s trying his darndest to make his blogs appear that he’s a victim. Gaining sympathy so that cult followers can continue forking out money to him instead of him working his azz off in the work force like the rest of us is doing.

  33. humiliated permalink
    November 23, 2011 7:19 am

    Dorothy..that was chilling to read. The similarities in the content of their little diatribes are remarkable. It so saddens me that people think Orrin is anything but a lying, thieving soulless douchebag.

    First of all Orrin, don’t even put yourself in the same universe as true network marketing, you are the dog crap they scrape off their shoes. You MAY, however, put yourself in the MLM category and you MAY state that you are a cut above the slimiest of slimy MLMs.

    The only “rules of the future” that you have been capable of changing are the ones where you are less accountable for the distribution of the money coming in (ie you get to take what you want without any questions asked) AND you have managed to exert even more control over your poor, pathetic victims.

    It is easy to not sell out your character or principles when you have none Orrin. You are a sick, sick man. Any therapist would have a field day with you.

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 23, 2011 7:48 am

    Thanks Vogel. 🙂

    Humiliated and thanks again to you for many laughs and your concise understanding of Orrin and the damaging farce. 🙂

  35. Steve (Peachy) permalink
    November 23, 2011 8:42 am

    Thanks Vogel for the video. It was laughable, and shameful at the same time. If I didn’t know any better and closed my eyes, I would have sworn that was me a few years ago. What a flippin shame.

  36. Vogel permalink
    November 23, 2011 10:23 am

    A big person can laugh at one’s self. Little insects like Woodworm never have those moments of self-effacing introspection; they’re too busy pointing the finger and mocking everyone else .

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 25, 2011 2:39 pm

    Here is an article that was more than interesting and struck a very similar cord after reading it. I am sure a lot of people have heard about this but thought this was a great perspective. It touches on cults and gurus so you all can draw your own conclusions.

  38. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 25, 2011 2:49 pm

    Make sure you watch the youtube and listen to the expert.

  39. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 25, 2011 4:35 pm

    Dream Team, Teacher, Mentor, Guru…..very shocking similarities huh?

    November 25, 2011

    “The leadership information is taught around the globe on the principles taught from two Wall Street Journal and New York Times best selling authors and Top 30 leadership gurus.”

    Seems Life has leadership gurus ranked in the top 30, anyone know where we can find the ranking?

  40. webelieved permalink
    November 25, 2011 4:44 pm

    All kinds of destructive cults use the term guru for their leaders!
    I find it funny Orrin picked that word! LOL!
    A fruedian slip perhaps ?

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 25, 2011 5:12 pm


    Very disturbing for sure.

    The guru status is fake or at least very suspect based on what Vogel and Will, and others dug up and we all know how they game everything to promote themselves and create illusions, it is obvious to me it would be no different then them gaming everthing else.

    They have a very well oiled machine when it comes to spreading information. It comes from Orrin and then the top leaders, then spread through out the team within 24-48 hours the entire team is on it…whatever the task.

    More likely they had some people go to a website and ‘vote’..the question is who created the site. Troy of course was going to dig into that also…but apparently didn’t follow through.

    This I know…every single thing they do…they game the system. It is how they got on the IBOAI board…the #1 Best Seller Status and the rest of the illusions they create. It definitely is not done orgainically… but then they claim it forever.

    Why wouldn’t Orrin just come out and explain exactly how this achieved…. since it seems he cannot write one article or do a speech anywhere without self promoting himself. And I don’t hear any other leader such as Jim Colins, John Maxwell, Brian Tracy etc…any real leader anywhere else that is claiming a ‘guru’ status…especially self-promotion…to me it is extremely narcissistic.

  42. Grover Lembeck permalink
    November 25, 2011 7:44 pm

    Fake? Game the System? Surely you jest, sir! Why, right here, at this obviously Very Official Website, is the top 30 leadership gurus! No doubt they have lead missions to mars (in the control room, of course, running the robots), vast disaster relief efforts, amphibious invasions, antarctic expeditions, huge international corporations, vast conspiracies, teams of extra-special forces (you’ve never heard of them because you lack the “top 30 guru” security clearance) and the most effective non-profit organizations.
    Look at this Website, just look at it;

    Why, everything from the bold use of different fonts (serif AND sans serif!) to “burnt umber to babyshit yellow” color in the banner just screams “LEADERSHIP! FOLLOW US! WE KNOW WHAT WE’RE DOING!”

    If I wanted to find a keynote speaker I’d never heard of, this is the first place I’d look alright.

    Scroll down for the “we’re like the air force, only without actually flying or having airplanes” award design, and the sites endorsement of the “Middle East Business Leaders” awards, held in Dubai 8 months ago. Apparently domestic markets are catching on- time to reach out to the wallets, er, I mean hearts of the people of the middle east.

  43. webelieved permalink
    November 25, 2011 8:33 pm

    Grover- Check out the new post with all the “companies” Orrin and friends have. Looks very suspicous. Many are registered at the same address. LOL!

  44. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 25, 2011 8:42 pm

    Beautiful site Grover, thanks for bringing it to my attention. Since OW said gurus, that would indicate more than one would it not? I scrolled down and only saw two on the list.

    Hahaha..I am glad as well that you recommend it as a source to locate keynote speakers as well.

    Most of all I love the brain training games and vitamin advertisements, world class comedy Grover, thanks!

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    November 25, 2011 8:47 pm


    ROLF…Great post! 🙂 Posers.

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