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First Time Free Does Not Apply: Orrin Woodward Wants Everyone’s Hamiltons at the December 6 Open in Michigan

December 1, 2011

Update December 4, 2011: Two days after publishing this post, TEAM Alpha Omega changed its original post; now it says first time attendees do not have to pay to attend the Leadership Open. Coincindence? I think not!

Team Alpha Omega reports that Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady will be speaking at a Leadership Open in Southfield, Michigan on December 6, 2011. In a break from past Opens, first time participants will not be able to attend for free. Rather, they will have to cough up $10 to hear Woodward and Brady talk. From the Team Alpha Omega post:

With this different format, you will be able to invite anyone who wants to learn leadership principles from Orrin for $10. After the leadership talk, stick around and see how LIFE can provide you with a financial vehicle.

Following Orrin’s talk1, Chris Brady will show the plan2. If one wants to “stick around” for the Ticket Holder meeting, he or she will have to buy a December Seminar ticket.

The sad part is that TEAM LIFE members have to spend at least $10 to hear the same spiel month after month after month. $120 ($240 if you’re a couple) down the drain. If they are attending the monthly seminars3, that’s another $20-40/month, $240-480/year down the drain.

What TEAM members fail to realize is that they are continually paying for the same information — just worded differently — every month they are a part of TEAM. For instance, what Orrin says on the 12/6 might be recorded and be converted into next month’s CD. He might recycle the talk for the monthly seminar or at the next Major Function. And all along, LIFE TEAM members will blissfully part with their money, thinking that his “latest” talk was the best talk ever.

MLM proponents like to compare critics to crabs being cooked in a pot of water. They will say that when a crab tries to get out, the other crabs will grab him and bring him back, all while the water’s temperature slowly rises to boiling. These pro-MLM people have a point, but in reality, they are talking about themselves, not the critics. They will do anything or say anything to keep you involved with their MLM-flavor of the day: Amway, MonaVie, One24, Protandim or LIFE. They’ll pepper their members with statements such as, “Success is just a CD away!” or “I made the commitment to become free at the next Major Seminar!” hoping that this will cause someone to stick around for another three months.

The sooner people realize this, the sooner they’ll be able to extricate themselves from the clutches of the LIFE TEAM.

1 I bet Orrin will even ask people to stock up on extra copies of his latest book, Resolved, at the meeting. I can hear it now, “Resolve! Resolve! Resolve to buy Resolved and share it with your friends! Resolve to do it, and you’ll be one step closer to freedom!”

2 I wonder if Brady will mention MonaVie in the plan.

3 According to Policy Council member Bill Lewis, committed LIFE TEAM members should be attending every weekly and monthly seminar.

58 Comments leave one →
  1. webelieved permalink
    December 1, 2011 2:23 pm

    These were called Super Opens and the prospects used to get in for free. Behind the scenes at least a few times I saw the speakers kept the money. I remember once a leader said we need to pay so and so PC for their time when I asked if they had to send it to the office. One time when the PC got money the leaders had pizza. He had to have made quite a few thousand for the few hours he was there. Once we were even given a small pitence of the money when we were one of the speakers. So sad now to see. The profit after paying for the room, should’ve went back to the Team office for profit sharing. The PC are already making enough money off of all the teams to be worth it to serve them for free. Can you say GREED?

  2. switch permalink
    December 1, 2011 5:42 pm

    “No One Pays For Mentorship in LIFE” – George Guzzardo

    That was beautiful, george.

  3. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 1, 2011 6:10 pm

    Everyone that is in LIFE pays for it in so many harmful ways. Makes me sick hearing about what the TEAM is doing now. I just know we are making a difference, so I keep coming back.

  4. December 2, 2011 3:48 am

    I wouldn’t have paid at all if I was being prospected and having to fork out ten bucks. Sorry. I betcha anytthing uplines are gonna have to fork out the ten bucks to get the prospects in to pull the wool over the their eyes! Buggers.

  5. Finally permalink
    December 2, 2011 4:28 am

    $14,000 collected at one super open in Southfield

    [Editor’s Note: Corrected for clarification]

  6. No Team For Me permalink
    December 2, 2011 6:58 am

    Anyone have a contact at the IRS? It would be interesting to know if the $14K was all cash, and if it is being reported. There are quite a few of these Super Opens every year. That could be several hundred thousand extra dollars for someone. Surely, it was reported on their taxes. Noone of character would just pocket the cash and not report it.

    [Editor’s Note: Corrected $14 to $14K]

  7. Hershall Sweet permalink
    December 2, 2011 7:55 am

    First Time Free is such an important part of the presentation! After all it’s supposed to build trust in the idea that you aren’t trying to suck the prospect dry or scam them. After you give a brief summary of the business – not too much detail, you say, “We have a meeting this tuesday. Come to the meeting. It’s free, No obligation. If you don’t like what you hear no harm done but I know you will love what ______ has to say. They’ve been building this business like crazy and the wife doesn’t have to work anymore. He’ll be retired soon. Didn’t you say that you’d like to allow your wife not to leave the kids to fend for themselves while she’s on her way out to the factory dark and early? I’ll pick you up around six. You won’t even have to use your own gas. See what you think.”
    Then let the presenter do the work (and sell a seminar ticket). Don’t forget to introduce the prospect to the presenter. They’ll build you up so that your prospect forgets you were throwing up in his bushes at last summer’s barbeque.
    They might even believe you are a new L.I.F.E. coach,
    Smooth huh?

  8. Hershall Sweet permalink
    December 2, 2011 8:08 am

    First they make their product sound even more cultish / brainwashy. Then they beat up opposing viewpoints and sound more totalitarian in their documents. Now they take a quick $10 from the prospect. Might as well get them used to shilling it out. Oh! I forgot that it’s not an expense – it’s an investment. You can claim it once you’re in the scheme – business.
    Can’t they dig the hole any faster so that they can pull the rug out from this one too and finally retire?

  9. December 2, 2011 8:57 am

    Seems to me that the Round Table isn’t making enough money from who they’ve got in the group, so they now have to seek money from outside TEAM/LIFE/TOD. Cash transactions again, obviously.

    I’m not a US citizen, but I’m quite certain that the IRS would accept anonymous tips much the same way Revenue Canada does in my country.

    These motivational seminars and functions appear to be cash only businesses and one would indeed wonder if all income is being claimed as required by law. Methinks the US really can’t afford to not be getting all the taxes from it’s citizens.

    Just a thought. I was never a part of TEAM, so I would have nothing to offer in the way of the ins and outs of how it works, function costs, frequency, and building rentals.

    Do you think Orrin and Co. would tell the IRS during an audit that business is exploding right now and they have more people than ever attending their seminars and buying their motivation?

  10. December 2, 2011 9:02 am

    Just to clarify, I am not saying for one minute that any of TEAM is cheating on their taxes, but it certainly must be a daunting task to have excellent record keeping when you have so many seminars and receipts to give to people who are attending and paying cash.

    I mean, there has to be a trail to track income & expenses for all the participants, no?

    I guess I just think it would be really interesting how it all shakes out. Ah, what the hell do I know anyway?

  11. webelieved permalink
    December 2, 2011 9:48 am

    In reading what I said, I want to clarify I was speaking of a large special meeting that a PC did. I am not sure if they called it a Super Open at that time.
    The open meeting speakers from Tuesday nights, send the admission money to the team office and the seminar ticket money goes through the team office as well. They would have to be real slick to hide that income.

  12. webelieved permalink
    December 2, 2011 9:51 am

    Not sure how they do the cash at Men’s and Ladie’s leadership meetings. I was not in charge of that.

  13. December 2, 2011 9:54 am

    @rocket – I suspect this has long been the M.O. of most MLM training organizations. We were routinely told to pay in cash or write checks to Cash when paying for a weekly or monthly seminar ticket.

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 2, 2011 11:22 am

    I agree Amthrax~

    They never accepted checks at the Team opens it was a cash only basis, I doubt they do it any differently now.

  15. No Team For Me permalink
    December 2, 2011 3:19 pm

    Webelieved is correct. It would be real hard to hide the cash at the regular Team Opens. The attendance gets reported and the money must be reported to the Team office. The leader in charge rotates from week to week. so if there was a discrepancy of one leader’s reported amount, it would be caught.

    I’m not so sure about the Super Opens though. I do not know what happened to the cash from those. And those were the big ones. Normally at least twice the attendance of the regular monthly and the door fee is $10 instead of the normal $5.

    Super Opens were normally scheduled about a month out from a major function as a way to do a hard sell for tickets to the major. However, there were plenty of extra tools moved at these as well.

    The tool & major ticket money would have been accounted for with the Team office. Not sure about the $10 door fee.

    The above statements are my opinion and not accusations.

  16. Finally permalink
    December 2, 2011 3:53 pm

    They do track and record all the open meetings But there is a catch…….Let’s say, hypothetically the girls working the desk at a super open collect and count the cash, they record it on their open sheets, check and re check the numbers, and let’s also say it is a super open…….Now typically the person doing the open is responsible for the counting of cash and getting it to the team office, either dropping it off or writing a check and depositing the money…….now, here is the hypothetical part……what if a PC member doing the super open said to the girls at the desk “hey, I am going to be at the team office I will take care of dropping off the cash from tonight”????? No one would even think to question them. I am not saying they stole the money or anything like that but if it were hypothetically agreed upon amongst the PC…who would be the wiser?????

    I know for a fact our up line preferred cash when we bought tools and I saw where the cash went…….and it wasn’t the bank…..wink wink 🙂

    On a canadien tax note……..Anyone remember how tight Casey Combden and Orrin and Chris were? I had heard, and this is only a rumor…….that casey was a master at hiding the large amounts of cash that tended to flow to a diamond………Well, it is just a rumor……….

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 2, 2011 4:25 pm

    Let me clarify the regular open’s were always cash, then that cash with the summary sheet with amount of people and guests was sent to the team office by the open meeting speakers. It was sent to the office with M.O., check, or bank check. Which the open meeting speaker was just the collector or middle man then sent it into office. From there who knows how their accounting worked.

    I was gone before the ‘super opens’..but we used to do them as team specific and the ones we did in our group the team leaders including us chipped in an paid for the rooms and never charged anyone for them because the ‘goal’ was to sell tickets…NOT find another way to charge people!

    But when Orrin and other PC caught on to us, then it was of course turned into another way rake it in off all those people; that now they are going to ask people who are already paid for their tickets (now will be charged to bring others..surcharged) and are going to now drag anyone new so they will buy a 90 dollar major ticket or whatever they are raking in off them just for tickets. Greed…everything is to take from others. It isn’t about the information, it is about the MONEY…that is obvious.

  18. ConnieF permalink
    December 2, 2011 6:09 pm

    Here’s how to report someone to the IRS for suspected tax fraud:,,id=106778,00.html

    You don’t even have to give your name or phone number. But if you do, and the IRS recovers funds, I understand you get a reward.

    Although the biggest reward is turning in these shysters. Even Al Capone couldn’t escape the IRS forever.

  19. Murray Lees permalink
    December 3, 2011 10:09 am

    In Canada, they probably don’t report it at all, it’s easy to get around not having to. The rooms are probably booked in an individual’s name and cash from the sale of tickets at the open simply reimburse that. They only give out the reciepts for admission because it’s a ‘write off expense’ for the IBOs/attendees…or that’s what they always say. They probably keep track of attendence for Orrin’s own stats purposes. The cash that they collect, if reported, can be reported as whatever they want so long as the don’t deposit more than $9,999.99 in a single day. In Canada, if you deposit $10,000.00 of cash into a personal or business account in one single day, your account is flagged by the bank and CRA to be reviewed/investigated to make sure you’re paying taxes if it is in fact income or a windfall gain like inheritence, gambling win, etc.

    Take Taxi driver’s for example (cash based business): they either have their own car/equipment or rent one from the taxi company, pay their own gas, then they pay a fee or percent back to the company for the service of providing them with calls. When it comes to tax time, the cab driver’s report their income minus expenses…but get this, if that amount happens to be $50K/year in cash recieved, they are allowed to report a minimum amount of $30K which they pay tax on. Because it’s cash based, there are limitations on how far CRA can go in terms of accessing your bank records, i.e. so long as you don’t deposit more than $9,999.99 in one day, the law says there’s no reason to inspect your account.

    This probably why the PC all have 20+ different registered businesses so that they can allocate their their income to the various businesses and report whatever they want in expenses for each company, lowering the net income thus paying lower corporate taxes on their net incomes.

    It’s all legal, but certainly walks the line of corporate accountability.

  20. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 3, 2011 11:39 am

    I have a question for anyone who has had the chance to go “shark fishing” with Orrin & Co or attend any of the other “special” events you can earn. They talked about these events all the time and used it as a reward for reaching certain levels/achievements, but I’m wondering how much of a reward it is versus being yet another drain on the pocket book? Does TEAM pay for these or is the people attending paying for them?

    They never really say it’s free, but they make it sound like you are winning/earning something (which leaves the impression that it is paid for). A month or more ago I happened to see the Triple Power Player event on the TEAM calendar (it is no longer there), and it had the links for you to purchase your plane tickets/hotels. At that point it finally occurred to me that maybe the people going to these events are actually paying for it completely.

    Kind of like the little incentives they have like the Guzzardo’s did a couple years ago for their teams. I can’t remember the details of it, but it was something like if you “each one, reached two” to a monthly seminars you “got” to go on a picnic with the Guzzardo’s. I had to laugh because my up-line wanted a brand new person to go so they counted the new person bringing their spouse as an “each one, reach one”.

    The “picnic” turned out to be:
    1. You pay for the gas to get there.
    2. If you lived too far away to make it a day trip, you paid for the hotel(s).
    3. You had to bring your own food the picnic.
    4. You had to pay the entrance fee to the park.
    5. Guzzardo’s were at the park – if you lined up you could talk to them for a couple minutes to tell them how great they are and that was about it.
    6. IF you reached another goal, you could stay longer for a talk or something like that.

    Technically, it was a picnic with the Guzzardo’s. It just wasn’t quite what people had expected. Numbers 3, 4, and 5 were what raised eyebrows.

  21. outside looking in permalink
    December 3, 2011 8:08 pm

    Correction: new people (or the general public) are admitted for free.

  22. webelieved permalink
    December 3, 2011 10:47 pm

    1million- It all is just another drain on the bank account. We went to Orrin’s and had to buy a plane ticket, rent a car, buy our dinner and breakfast out. I think it cost us @ 1000 ! Such a treat! One time we earned our way to Orrin’s Michigan house and the cheapskate millionare couldn’t even buy pizza ! A few times we went out to dinner and it was like @40 a plate! Had to pay for that too! We thought it was such an honor! Puke!
    Just so you all know this is after years of work and building huge money for his pocket book! What a freakin joke!

  23. webelieved permalink
    December 3, 2011 10:51 pm

    1million- Aren’t the promotions priceless! It always was promoted as such an honor and you thought you were going to learn some great nugget you were missing in building your business. Once you get there you realize it is the same ol same ol. What a waste of money and time! Your story about the picnic is typical and priceless!
    Promotions like that are just so they can get you to work more or spend more for your upline’s pocketbook! What a freaking joke! I would rather poke my eyes out with a fork !

  24. webelieved permalink
    December 3, 2011 10:55 pm

    Although I used to think it was such and honor and then brag to my team so they would want to go. It is sick how you have to earn your way to someone’s house that is supposed to care about you and be serving you. Another hypocritical thing, those two things don’t go together do they. You cannot say you are a servant to your team and then require something from them for them to get time with you. Do you see how contradictory it all is? Crazy huh?

  25. webelieved permalink
    December 3, 2011 11:05 pm

    Funny how people cheat and count their spouses! LOL!
    I also wanted to say a few years ago the Team was getting paid for rooms that teamers booked through their site for the majors. I wonder if it was the same for that promotion?
    The Team pays for nothing, ever… except one thing. They paid for the room at the fun in the sun. I believe a person had to pay to get to there and for all of their other expenses and when they are there every night they get to go to ……..MEETINGS! Can you believe it?
    Just what one wants to do when they finally get a break!

  26. December 4, 2011 2:18 am

    @outside looking in – They no doubt changed this as a direct result of this blog post. Note what the Team Alpha Omega site said before:

    With this different format, you will be able to invite anyone who wants to learn leadership principles from Orrin for $10. After the leadership talk, stick around and see how LIFE can provide you with a financial vehicle.

    and after:

    Admission: $10.00 – 1st Time attendees/guests are free!

    I have updated this post with the new information.

  27. webelieved permalink
    December 4, 2011 3:13 am

    Amthrax-I wonder why they are reading this site? Afterall it is full of a bunch of nameless, faceless cowards according to Orrin who is only a positive leader ! LOL!

  28. webelieved permalink
    December 4, 2011 3:15 am

    Murray- Thanks for your insight.

  29. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 4, 2011 8:14 am

    Amthrax & Webelieved~

    Why are we their conscience? We have felt this way for years!

  30. Robin permalink
    December 4, 2011 3:16 pm

    We “qualified” to go to Tim Mark’s for a shark fishing trip on the yacht. We paid for airfare, our room, a rental car, a babysitter, and food. We wen’t out on his rented yacht and back to their home in Florida and listened to his talks. Same ole same ole. Yet we thought like idiots we would hear something that would move us to the next level. Pretty embarrasing to admit. It is sick that people would do all that and feel honored just to listen to someone speak or spend time around them. I cannot believe we did this for such a long time. But we have been free now for 3 years and loving life. They can take their “life” bull and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine. Their “life” is your “death”.

  31. Vogel permalink
    December 4, 2011 9:01 pm

    Ha! Orrin’s learning how to run his business from THIS site! I’m choking on the irony…nyuk nyuk.

    Can we burn some CDs for him — at $20 a pop?

    OMG, I have to stop or I’m gonna bust a rib.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 4, 2011 10:00 pm

    500 dollars a pop per post…consulting fees.. 🙂

  33. December 5, 2011 5:50 am

    Everyone who attends the seminar should ask a receipt at the “December 6 Open”. I assume everyone wants to deduct their business expenses “to hear the great guru speak ” including the 10 dollars! 🙂 They should so it at every seminar they visit!

    How can someone run a MLM- business if he or she does not even know the amount of money going out or in? I am keeping every receipt in my bookkeeping. Keeps things quite clear! O yeah, I remember, in the MLM world, people do not want to keep things clear. The leaders do not want clarity to be able to cheat the IRS and their “independent” business owners”, the “business owners” do not want clarity because then they have to face the ugly reality that they are just consumers, spending money and not making money. What will they be without their MLM family? Less successful?

    What a terrible spider’s web to get and be stuck in!

    Maybe some advice from David Kahneman, a psychologist who won a Nobel price in economics.

    “”What psychology and behavioral economics have shown is that people don’t think very carefully. They’re influenced by all sorts of superficial things in their decision making, and they procrastinate and don’t read the small print. “”

    “”When you analyze happiness, it turns out that the way you spend your time is extremely important. Decisions that affect how much time you spend with people you like are going to have a very large effect on how happy you are–not necessarily satisfied with your life but happy””

    More information,9171,2099712,00.html

  34. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 6:23 am

    I agree Orrin can pay us for consulting and exit counseling! LOL!

  35. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 7:38 am

    Robin- Your story is so familiar. It is so embarassing the idolatry of people hey? Wow they really got us to buy in to ridiculous things. I wouldn’t even spend that on a vacation for my family but spent it on that cause someday was going to come. Someday came all right…….and it wasn’t pretty. Discusting. They really like their egos stroked. Just the same as a meditation cult guru who expects his followers to sit around him and worship him while listening to his guru teachings. Funny they call themselves gurus!
    Or how about James Arthur Ray, the New York Times Bestseller……….

    Looks familiar, all except the orange suit LOL!

  36. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 7:50 am

    Funny I guess Orrin isn’t the ONLY one who is a self help guru. Looks like James sells cds and books to to better your life as well.

    I wonder if James Ray will be teaching in jail.
    Wonder what the families of his victims thinK?

  37. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 8:01 am

    Notice at the bottom of the article the cult followers comments. Really SICK! Unfortunately it sounds too familiar! Wow.

  38. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 5, 2011 9:03 am

    Amthrax, I know this doesn’t belong here, I looked through categories and couldn’t decide on an applicable one, please move it where you see fit.


    Seems our Asian counter parts are much quicker than MV. Not only has one of our acquaintances tied up MV’s ability to import into China, but has now offered the rights up to the highest bidder. Way to go Dr. Loh!! Screw Monavie!! Lets see what they do on this one? Can’t wait!

  39. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 9:14 am

    Brent how can someone else control a liscense for China, did they buy it? Call me naive but can you explain it in layman’s terms.

  40. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 5, 2011 10:39 am


    I can only speak from my personal experience, which doesn’t involve China, but I am almost certain that the laws are very similar in nature. A partner and I have actually been through the entire registration process as well as food and drug approval for a product in another country. My partner still owns the importing rights on this product as well, and he could do the same thing if it had any value (which it doesn’t).

    Basically it boils down to this. China hates MLM, but allow direct selling. MV has been trying to get in there but couldn’t. A Malaysian group who was well connected in China got it pushed through and approved without the MLM structure. Therefore, they own the exclusive rights to import any and all Monavie into the country. The only way it can go in legally is if their company brings it in.

    Instead of being happy and supporting them, and expanding their market, MV slapped them up side the head and terminated their distributorships with MV. All they asked was for some kind of compensation or percentage for their efforts. They clearly broke MV rules, but they didn’t break the law. Everything they did was perfectly acceptable, and legal in any country.

    Since MV didn’t want to reward them for their efforts, they are now offering the license and importing to the highest bidder. Greed has possibly cost MV the ability to possibly capture their largest market (thank goodness). They will either have to buck up and put out a bid to buy the rights, or it could be surrendered to a third party. This is a big cat and mouse game, and I think the guys playing it are totally cool for having the guts to do it. Cheers to the Malaysian group for having the courage to stick to their guns, and shame on you MV for being to greedy to spread the wealth to our poor brothers in Malaysia.

    They cut cash deals and break insert leaders into huge organizations. Move teams around at will, and pad the pockets of their good ol boys, but they will not budge on this one. Pride will get them on this one……this is exciting!

  41. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 11:10 am

    That is so interesting, I was wondering what might it have cost for the liscense and rights when they first bought them?

  42. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 5, 2011 11:33 am

    Just guessing, but probably less than $500.

  43. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 12:29 pm

    Seriously!! LOL! Wow I guess we really were in the wrong line of business!

  44. not signed up yet permalink
    December 5, 2011 9:10 pm

    my sponsor gave me one of Tim Marks CDs…he spoke at a local open. Guess what…his speech was the speech on the CD. So the re packaging never ends. And I remember my initial meeting with my sponsor…again telling em this was a leadership organization and to come to the meeting Tuesday. About ten minutes into the presentation I thought, oh crap here we go. I went to more meetings, but never did fork over any money. I picked up the pattern very quickly…go Tuesday night so you can hear the plan, get your ticket to the Saturday seminar so you can hear a 5 hour presentation for the next major and get to the major to they can tell you when you go back home to go back to the opens.

    I have seen the teamers act one way at meetings and another in public. I also think its interesting that 90 percent of the people at the opens who been with team a while all pretty much still had full time jobs.

    So where is all this time you are supposed to get back? You work 40 hours at your real job. Spend 4 hours on a Tuesday night 4 times a month, spend 4 to 6 hours at a Saturday seminar, spend 15 hours a month showing the plan, plus untold hours of meetings with your mentors and upline and untold hours advising and training your downline.

  45. webelieved permalink
    December 5, 2011 9:31 pm

    Not signed- Wow you really get it. You will kill yourself going power player over and over if you are all in. Don’t forget all the driving time, hours a night. and coffee after with your team, and picking up your kids at the babysitters. Driving to the opens. Driving to the seminars.
    work 6 days a week on top of your job. Sometimes drive 3 hours to a plan and 3 hours home on a weeknight, hope you don’t crash the car on the way home, get up and go to work in the morning. You will spend NO time with your family. If your kids go to school you will not see them, we did it for years! Your job will support your business.

  46. Finally permalink
    December 6, 2011 4:57 am

    not signed up yet- you sound as if you have been in awhile………….I may be wrong but you are very insightful from just going to opens……..I agree with you on the point that they are different on stage than in public. Our former up lines would scream and curse at their kids and get on stage and talk about emotional maturity and actually try to teach on it. They lied many times and there are a few voice mail recordings of my former up lines wife losing her marbles and screaming swearing and well you get the point………I can’t wait for the day that these things become public……I would love to hear the spin from their mentors on that LOL These guy’s ego’s are so big that they believe a guy like you and your analysis of what you are seeing couldn’t possibly be right just because you are not them……….

  47. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 6, 2011 5:58 am


    Great summary of my experience! I will add a decade of never getting more than 5 hours of sleep a night, and learning how to be creative with your finances trying to juggle everything. All the while being told to just keep doing what your doing, that total freedom is just around the next corner.

    “You will kill yourself going power player over and over if you are all in. Don’t forget all the driving time, hours a night. and coffee after with your team, and picking up your kids at the babysitters. Driving to the opens. Driving to the seminars.
    work 6 days a week on top of your job. Sometimes drive 3 hours to a plan and 3 hours home on a weeknight, hope you don’t crash the car on the way home, get up and go to work in the morning. You will spend NO time with your family. If your kids go to school you will not see them, we did it for years! Your job will support your business.”

  48. not signed up yet permalink
    December 6, 2011 12:32 pm

    Finally— I never got in. I was told I could check it out as long as I wanted before I signed up, and that’s what I did. It didnt take long before I saw the pattern. I also got frustrated when I;d ask other teambots specific questions that I was told I would get specific answers to only to get very nebulous answers or a CD thrown at me or “that will be covered at the Saturday seminar” Sounds to me like alot of TEAM actually doesnt know anything.

    I noticed in the CDS that are supposed to be about improving your life…where is that? every CD I have heard has covered nothing of the 8 fs the three c’s or whatever they are doing now. All the CDs are about getting to opens Saturdays and majors.

    I also heard of these great “incentive trips” to Tim marks house and Orrins house, when you reach certian levels as a reward, and as a reward you have to pay for all your own expenses to get there and back. How is that an incentive or reward?

    I was at a Saturday thing when they were announcing all the people that went Power Player…but thats not good enough…I heard one of the big wigs tell these Power Players to go Power Player again….15 times!

    It really got interesting when asked for financials on team, and some actual proof that team can do what they say they can do. The look I got w deer in the headlights but more of a stuck in a tunnel with a train coming at you. My sponsor also told me he’d to everything eh could to get me more time with my daughter, who lives with her mom in another city. I asked how specifically was he going to do that and my answer was a confused look and silence.

    I attended opens and webcasts for a couple months and in that time tried to find out everything I could. I dont consider it wasted time, I learned alot and that I didn’t want to be involved with these people.

  49. webelieved permalink
    December 6, 2011 1:49 pm

    Isn’t it funny now it’s against their rules to show you a tax return! LOL!
    Wonder what they are trying to hide there?

  50. webelieved permalink
    December 6, 2011 1:56 pm

    Brent I didn’t sleep for YEARS! Don’t forget you also had to get the tools to your house and seperate, bill, deliver, wait for pick up whatever. Then eat the cost for the ones who changed their minds and wouldn’t pay! Cover bad checks. Work, work, work. Phone calls, mentoring, registering……it went on and on.
    Oh and don’t forget we were liable for it all. I had to pay a guy $500 on a return of some crap he bought at major, because my PC wouldn’t do it, and the office wouldn’t do it. I didn’t even sell him the crap. The people on stage did at a major! Ridiculous!
    Orrin is a chepskate, loser.

  51. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 6, 2011 2:09 pm


    Hahahaha…I forgot about signing checks and giving a signed checkbook to your upline, as well as having signed checks from your groups. Then a agreed upon deposit time just to make sure everything cleared without a glitch.

    I remember driving 200 miles one way to pick up less than $100 worth of crap at the start, and being crazy enough to do it. Icy roads, sleeping on the side of the road, truck stop corndogs and horrendous cell phone bills. Paying the price, paying the price! Ridiculous!

    Stop now please, your gonna make me cry or puke.

  52. webelieved permalink
    December 6, 2011 2:56 pm

    Brent- How about it! Before unlimited plans there were months I had $800 cell bills! Oh the lack of nutrition, sleep and bad food probably took years off our lives! And how about gas and wear and tear on your cars? We put close to 200,000 miles on them! It was INSANE that we just kept on going. Just keep going, keep doing what you are doing.
    How about it,snow storms, floods, and tornados, payin the price to live life nice! We were nuts!!!! We risked our lives to hear auto engineers give book reports and tell us to buy more cds?! Mind control works very well wouldn’ t you say? Now I would NEVER risk my life and do such stupid things. I value my kids keeping me as their parent too much.
    It was great when my spouse had to go back to work, that was awesome after our kids watched them retire with all the huupla! It was great for our kids to watch Team leaders steal time and money from their parents! Or how about all the friends, leaders our kids knew that pretend we don’t exist and/or slander us after all the years we left our kids to build their team for them?
    It’s really easy to say the Team is so great and has so much integrity…NOT!

  53. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 6, 2011 7:57 pm

    As far as the income goes, I was told that if you aren’t making anything, you are to tell others (with a smile): “You wouldn’t believe what I’m making, even if I told you.”, Then laugh as if it was a ridiculous question and say nothing more. It was explained to me that it was a true statement and they would feel too stupid to ask more. People wouldn’t believe you if you were making money in the business and they wouldn’t believe that you would spend so much time/effort/money without making anything.

    I love that tactic. Even at the major conventions PC will use it. They don’t have a legitimate answer because there is none, and they just repeat the question(s), then say “Well, duh”.

  54. webelieved permalink
    December 6, 2011 8:04 pm

    Watch the movie BELIEVE. You will throw up. We all did as we were taught and did those things.

  55. Finally permalink
    December 7, 2011 2:04 pm

    You are very wise not signed up yet, it took me wayyyyyy longer to catch on and buy into what you figured out in a very short amount of time. Awesome!!! Share your story often!!

  56. not signed up yet permalink
    December 8, 2011 8:33 am


    Part of this was my experience with Primerica. Different products, same methods of recruitment, loyalty, addiction to tools, books and seminars. In fact the tactics and methods are exactly the same that team uses.

    I am a very observant person. I was told I could check out team as long as I wanted before I joined, and all my questions would be answered. Thats why I went to alot of opens,webcasts and even one Saturday, and even though I was given a ticket (and use the term loosely) to a major, I never went.

    After my third open, I pretty much had the spiel down and I could have got on stage and presented it, even though I didn’t believe it.

    I also found it disturbing that women did not present the plan or speak, except just before the break to sell Saturday tickets and major tickets, and EMVs at the tool table for 3 bucks.

    What I observed is team leaders inflating numbers…they say 200 people attend our local Tuesday nights, but the room only holds about 150. they told me 20,000 people were at a major in Columbus when the real attendance was barely 8500 if that. My sponsor sent me pictures from an major this summer, and it didn’t exactly look like the arena was filled to capacity.

    I observed people at top levels like power players, people who have “retired” and have passive income still attending opens, seminars and STP 15 times a month. If you are retired, have passive income, you should be set.

    I listened to more than a dozen Cds, and even though the speakers were different, there was nothing about actually improving your life, finances, relationships or anything. It was all about promoting and buying team crap like CDs and tickets.

  57. das permalink
    December 8, 2011 9:20 am

    @1MillionLIfES As far as the income goes, I was told that if you aren’t making anything, you are to tell others (with a smile): “You wouldn’t believe what I’m making, even if I told you.”, Then laugh as if it was a ridiculous question and say nothing more.

    I remember being taught that too. I think it was on a CD by Chris Brady. The majority of all Team members can use this line. Even the PC members are probably losing money after expenses.

    @Not signed up yet, there is no such thing as retiring or even taking a break from Team. If you do they quit paying you that residual, passive, pipeline income. Team members retire from their job but work harder trying to recruit people. It’s a never ending deal replacing all of us quitters. Talk about carrying buckets!HA!


  1. Claude Hamilton, AKA Mr. Profitability on the LIFE TEAM « AMTHRAX

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