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Orrin Woodward (circa 2007-2009) versus Orrin Woodward (circa 2011) on TEAM Success

December 9, 2011

LIFE TEAM leader Orrin Woodward is currently praising the efforts of TEAM CEO Rob Hallstrand1. I want to focus on the section in Orrin’s post in which he discusses the disaster and difficulties from 2007-2009.

Disaster struck in late 2007. I have studied the data from the years 2006-2009 extensively, seeking to learn the invaluable leadership lessons that failure teaches. In other words, don’t run from failures; learn from them. And boy, did I ever learn a ton.

Orrin won’t provide details, so I will. The disaster that he is referring to was when Orrin and several of his TEAM leaders got kicked out and terminated by Amway/Quixtar. Multiple lawsuits and counter suits were filed until a 2010 confidential, out-of-court settlement muzzled Orrin from ever speaking ill of Amway again.

There are probably only a handful of leaders in the country that could have handled the ridiculous leadership challenge (lawsuits, leaving our former company, etc) that hit the TEAM late 2007 through 2009, so I am thankful for everyone’s efforts to handle the task. However, when in 2009 the office cost-per-field-revenue was five times higher than previous benchmarks, I realized I needed to act fast or the TEAM would capsize. Many of our field leaders had lost 2/3’s of their income and as the leader of TEAM, both the office and the field, it was ultimately my responsibility to fix it.

Field Leaders in TEAM make money in two ways: Amway/Quixtar/MonaVie/LIFE and TEAM Tools profit-sharing. Let’s discuss both in the next two sections.

MonaVie

TEAM joined MonaVie in 2008. When he moved his group over, Orrin waxed poetically how MonaVie was going to bring in much more income to its field leaders than Amway/Quixtar ever did. Now he’s saying that never happened? Orrin, say it isn’t so! Let’s analyze Orrin’s own words from his old blog (before he deletes these posts as he has others in the past). Bold emphasis mine in the following quotes from Orrin.

April 17, 2008: MonaVie – Patterns & Principles

The group has grown over 10% in the last 5 days which is over 2% per day! I have never experienced growth like this in my entire 15 years in the MLM industry and this is before we have MonaVie specific tools to teach and duplicate with! I am more thankful everyday that I met Dallin Larsen and joined MonaVie. How does your growth compare with the benchmarks? I will recognize the top performing groups in this category in a future post.

Sounds like a good start, right?

April 28, 2008: MonaVie – The Proof is in the Pudding

I have personally seen people’s weekly checks be more than they have ever made in a month in other MLM’s. By my count it looks like there will be 12 or more people qualify for Black Diamond in the next month. That is an average yearly income of $1.353 million from the MonaVie plan! That is more than twice the MLM compensation income that any of these leaders have ever been paid before in a year. This does not include the hundreds of Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Ruby’s that are achieving incomes never obtained before. If you are in MonaVie, please share your success story. Life is too short to play small. Leaders have the courage to get their boats out of the safe harbors and into the oceans of success! God Bless, Orrin Woodward

Not sure what kind of pudding Woodward was eating, but I’ll pass. Here’s the thing with MonaVie. How many pin winners maintained their level for the entire year?

May, 2008: Friday – MonaVie End of the Week – Goals

It is Friday and many MonaVie distributors are hitting their end of the week goals. This is the best volume week yet on my MonaVie Team and we still have the rest of the day. Are you in business and running towards your goal? You cannot hit a goal that you didn’t set. I am running for mine and I wish you all the success you deserve in hitting your goal! Let me know if you have hit a new level today. God Bless, Orrin Woodward

According to Orrin, things still look good on the MonaVie pudding train. Let’s skip ahead several months now.

September, 2008: MonaVie Corporate Jet

We did the first Super Open in Ft. Atkins, Wisconsin and there were over 1000 people with 167 new prospects. Business is good on the MonaVie Team! I can’t think of a better use for the jet credits than to fly in and see the super members of the Team. Make your decision to go Black Diamond on your way to Royal Black Diamond! God Bless, Orrin Woodward

A lot of people might have decided to go Black Diamond, but few ever made it.

October 30, 2008: Success Magazine & MonaVie Team Exclusive Program

I am proud of all of the leaders on the MonaVie Team and look forward to the best year in the Team’s history coming up in 2009.

2009 didn’t turn out to be the best year in TEAM after all.

November 1, 2008: Orrin & Laurie Woodward in Anaheim, California

We are experiencing our best growth in new people at seminars since joining MonaVie.

Saying it over and over won’t make it happen.

November 18, 2008: Orrin & Laurie Woodward Heading to St. Louis

I have never been treated as good and paid so well as by MonaVie. We plan on paying those blessings forward in St. Louis. Life is great on the MonaVie Team and getting better everyday. There is still plenty of time to qualify for that meeting or Each One Reach Two-Three-Four or more!

As we have discovered, life may have been great then, but it wasn’t going to last.

December 2, 2008: Networking Times – Launching a Leadership Revolution

The MonaVie Team is exploding in several markets and will be going worldwide. The MonaVie Team is aligning with leaders across the world to do what has never been done in the Networking field before – go to 1 million people in the seats on a Saturday training session. Are you part of that million that is Having Fun, Making Money and Making a Difference?

In between brown-nosing to Dallin Larsen and recognizing Dan Hawkins (for the groups he gave the Hawkins), Orrin has this choice quote:

January 9, 2009: MonaVie Jet Credits – Dallin Larsen – Distributor CEO

The Team is off to a record breaking January to start 2009!

Note to Orrin: There are some records you don’t want to break.

May 2, 2009: New MonaVie Black Diamond Videos

MonaVie continues to lead the networking field in growth, innovation, bonuses, recognition and free vacations. Laurie and I just returned from an all expenses paid one week vacation in Ireland.

MonaVie is on its way to 20 billion in 20 years, do you have your boat in the water?

While Orrin and Laurie were enjoying their all expenses paid trip to Ireland, their field leaders were seeing 2/3rds drop in income. Way to lead by example! Somehow, I don’t think MonaVie is going to be around in 20 years, let alone hit $20 billion. With the launch of LIFE, it doesn’t look like TEAM is going to be a part of MonaVie for that much longer either.

Between 2008-2009, has Orrin given any indication that something is wrong in TEAM MonaVie land? I can’t tell. How about people who attended his seminars or read the private TEAM blog?

September 9, 2009: Total Success

Here is a clip from a talk given to MonaVie Team members on the importance of building a business community for total success. Success is more than just money.

What good is it to have monetary gain but have no friends? What good is it to have many friends, but no spiritual peace? Focus on improving all areas of your life. The objective of the MonaVie Team is to help you on your journey to total success.

Finally, we have the first inkling from Orrin that all is not well in TEAM MonaVie land. I’ve written about this before, and now it makes perfect sense why Orrin would shift his talking about how much money everyone is(n’t) making to talking about all the wonderful side benefits you get from being a part of TEAM. Orrin Woodward’s idea of Total Success is just a cover for TEAM’s financial failure.

TEAM Tools

When Orrin talks about his “office cost-per-field-revenue” he’s not talking about revenues from MonaVie, he’s talking about TEAM revenue. What was TEAM’s product? If you guess MonaVie juice or Amway/Quixtar products, you’re wrong. TEAM’s products have always been in the sale of tools, books, CDs, and functions.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I sat down with the Policy Council (PC) leaders and asked for each of them to pick an area at the office to help transform. I tapped Rob Hallstrand on the shoulder and asked him to take over the TEAM office as COO – Chief Operating Officer. I knew this was a “bet the company” move. Either the TEAM turned around its cost-to-revenue margins or the company would bankrupt itself.

What’s the main business for the field leaders? TEAM or MonaVie? If you guessed MonaVie, you’re wrong! TEAM has always been the main business. That’s where most of the field leaders made the majority of their money. Now, what was it Orrin Woodward himself said about this when discussing Network Marketing & Scams?

4. Keep the main business the main business. – Training and sales aids are critical and necessary to the building of a stable and profitable community. Without proper training and leadership, a community will not hold together in the long run. There may be profits created through the proper use of training materials. A legitimate enterprise will share those profits with the field leaders in a fair and equitable way. If the profits from the training become higher than the profits from the business, then you are probably entering the danger zone. A good rule of thumb would be that profits from training ought to be around half of what you make from the network marketing company.

In 2009-2010, the focus of Orrin’s posts shifted from talking about MonaVie to talking about leadership this, leadership that. Does MonaVie teach leadership? No, they sell purple juice concentrate. Who sells leadership? TEAM. What’s LIFE if not a re-branding of TEAM? Now, tell me again Orrin, what was the main business? MonaVie or TEAM?

There are a lot of former high-level TEAM leaders commenting on this blog. I would like to hear from them about the ratio between MonaVie-profits and TEAM-profits.

To Orrin, everything is great until he says otherwise. His followers will believe him until he says otherwise.

  • Amway/Quixtar is the best business in the world! In the world! That is, until Orrin says it’s an illegal pyramid scheme.
  • Life is great on the MonaVie Team and getting better everyday. That is, until Orrin says LIFE is the new focus for TEAM.

Now he has his new band of cheerleadership blogs are parroting everything he says. Will they keep up the false front when things inevitably start to go bad? Be careful what you wish for!


1 Judging from his past edification posts of then-TEAM Leaders, the over/under on Rob’s departure from TEAM starts at 6 months.

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39 Comments leave one →
  1. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 9, 2011 6:16 am

    Hilarious comparisons Amthrax, the rhetoric is almost unbearable. Funny how there could be the ‘best growth ever’ as well as ‘disaster’ and ‘2/3 loss of income’ all at the same time.

    In my opinion the entire organization was led off a cliff when they jumped into MV. When people didn’t buy into the MV pipe dream, they stopped buying tools, and attending seminars, so Team was upside down.

    Expenses probably did not increase, but gross revenues plummeted, and the mid level earners were the ones hit the hardest.

    No amount of leadeship, (or supposed leadership) in the world will compensate for an inadequate, unfair, and antiquated compensation structure. People get in business to make money, not to hang out and listen to a bunch of cronies talk about yesteryear.

  2. Murray Lees permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:17 am

    Excellent post Amthrax. It reveals one of (that I feel) is the most dangerous aspect of Orrin Woodward in terms of his impact on folks personal finances: people get so caught up in this guy’s rhetoric. It’s disturbing. I like what you said Brent: “No amount of leadership, (or supposed leadership) in the world will compensate for an inadequate, unfair, and antiquated compensation structure. People bet in business to make money, not to hang out and listen to a bunch of cronies…”

    I have a family member who has been commited to TEAM for years and hasn’t made a dime. They’re in Claude’s business and are so caught up in the hype that they can no longer see, let alone discuss, practical matters of a real business. I try to ask questions like “If Orrin is as transparent as you say he is, why won’t he make available TEAM’s financial statments.” Response: “I trust in what Orrin and Chris are doing.” My family member is actually convinenced, because this is what Orrin, Chris, Claude, et. al. are telling them, that the ‘Leaders’ (I think they mean the PC) aren’t taking any money out of LIFE. They’re convinenced that Orrin is running this business by paying for LIFE’s expenses (materials, office & administration costs) and then the net income is entirely redistributed amongst the LIFE members/subscribers/leaders/whatever. Riiiight.

    It’s depressing really. It seems that if/when you try to have a practical discussion with people who are emotionally invested in this business, it is impossible for them to separate the practical issues (i.e. the shitty compensation structure) from the leadership BS. They feel as though you’re attacking them as people for being associated with TEAM/LIFE even when’s that’s not the case. The business model is not administered how they say it is. It’s pretty clear.

    I like the concept of profit sharing in a communal way that MLM could potentially offer but it’s clear that TEAM/LIFE is just not fair.

  3. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:18 am

    Orrin is stating the 2/3 loss of Team Profit Sharing to discount what the critics here are claiming Team has done to them. He was messing with the pay. The team office may have lost sales but there still is no reason a downline with smaller teams gets paid more than their upline with more sales. He is a LIAR! It is always a coverup.
    The rhetoric above is almost disturbing to read but great for a new person to see Orrin’s game. I think you should post this in the Primer for people to see Orrin is a good con.

  4. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:27 am

    2/3 out of $10,000 doesn’t equal $1000! Orrin needs to go back to math class Brent!

  5. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:34 am

    Murray he cannot listen he is under a Thought Reform Program, I know I was under it and couldn’t see it. Please Read Combatting Cult Mind Control by cult expert Steve Hasan to help your family. They have indoctrinated him to not listen to you. You are an ignorant outsider in his mind.
    By the way Orrin doesn’t even pay for dinner when he invites you out, he sure isn’t paying for the Team office to run!
    The whole thing is based on misplaced trust of people that will use it to manipulate.

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:37 am

    Amthrax~ Great Article! You are so right whatever Simon (orrin) Says…regardless of how ridiculous it is…people just ‘believe!’ If Simon said the moon is black and not white then so it is…LOL

    Brent~

    “No amount of leadeship, (or supposed leadership) in the world will compensate for an inadequate, unfair, and antiquated compensation structure.”

    Very succinctly put!

    There is nothing that can explain those ‘bench marked studies away’..lol. How could they be wrong now? It is a joke and an insult to even call what they do Leadership… Just excuses, spinning and the rhetoric that they have been repeating for decades now. What excuse could possibly explain it when LIEf fails?

    Interesting 2007 was our biggest year ever with momentum (no hype, just numbers), the exspenses he must have been referring to was the Lawsuits that HE created and said he paid with his OWN money! Since HE choose to sue and it was tens of millions, DO you Think…just maybe…that caused the:

    “Desperate times call for desperate measures.I knew this was a “bet the company” move. Either the TEAM turned around its cost-to-revenue margins or the company would bankrupt itself.”

    ‘Orrin’s expenses’; was the cause of starving those leaders and their incomes dropped to 2/3 (ours a whole lot more than that). Which leaders is he talking about whos incomes dropped to 2/3? Notice he never includes himself in that drop..Hmm..

    Will the guy ever tell the whole truth or just continue to feed people what he wants them to believe? Brent you are right it is unbearable…I cannot gut the rhetoric.

    My prayer is people will wake up to the truth and not be takin by the false hope and find out it is nothing but shattered dreams, lost friendships, and a lot more suffering..that they will end up with. 😦

    Just because people are making $7.50 sooner, but you have to spend 50 bucks to get that! That is no different that the bottom people in Amway we could get many, many people to make 6 bucks right away… But when they figure out that 80% quit and you will have to start all over the next year with a whole new set of 6 buckers ($7.50 er’s) churning..til infinity…This creates the illusion they will make a whole lot more! That is the game… get others to ‘believe’ it will increase into millions..and they will be rich… it will be the same 7 people at PC, 2 years from now that’s… IF.. they don’t crash and burn before or make it that long…Every bit of the fake fairytale is an illusion for the vast majority!

    They are nothing more than a middle man book supplier…that make millions off others through their seminars (book reports) cd’s, and other people’s books.. they like to call everything they do ‘leadership’..with a few of their own books forced through their ‘captive’ audience…where all the profit (your money) gets sucked through the vacuum straight… to the TOP!

    Do not be fooled, by the ‘feel good’.. happy, happy, happy, enviroment’…and the bombardment of every speakers lives ‘have changed because of them with tears’ not saying people don’t get wrapped up and ‘feel like it is what changed their life’…but speakers are told to tell everyone that it is them that saved them and not give credit to anything or anyone else…it is all designed to convince you that in that little bubble..it is heaven on earth… Readers.. it is not as it seems!

    The PC make millions to force people in the enviroment to be happy, happy, happy even when they are not..(No negative)..Save yourself the pain and suffering and Do your research on this site; and then ground yourself and Critically Think!

    Nothing…I repeat Nothing…(at least on this planet).. is too good to be true nor is it life ALWAYS happy, happy, happy! 🙂

  7. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:50 am

    @webelieved – More and more people are seeing Orrin’s game sooner in the game. Thank goodness.

  8. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 7:50 am

    Speak- Let’s have all the leaders on this blog do seminars and tell our real story, THE REST OF THE STORY!!! Then we can send a cd downline or better yet give a download for free! LMAO!

  9. switch permalink
    December 9, 2011 8:04 am

    2/3rds drop in income for the field leaders and the man is off enjoying his OWN time and family in Ireland….. I would probably have to agree with webelieved and Speak when they told everyone here that something isn’t right.

    Get this guy a seat on Oprah, he’s got it figured out!

  10. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 9, 2011 8:22 am

    Murray,

    Excellent point when you said, “I like the concept of profit sharing in a communal way that MLM could potentially offer but it’s clear that TEAM/LIFE is just not fair.”

    Honestly, it is possible to write plans that are fair and equitable, and I am glad you realize and understand that.

    Cognitive dissonance is a powerful force, the mind cannot hold two conflicting ideas/beliefs at once. Unfortunately, most will not listen to reason due to the lack of material evidence. When a PC member pulls up in a Mercedes, and one of us in a lesser automobile, we are all programmed to listen to the guy in the Mercedes because we believe he has ‘fruit on his tree’.

    The world judges success by material possessions, which is in total conflict with true reality.

  11. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 8:24 am

    Yeah and he kept his estate, boat, and bought Chris Brady’s dream home!! It seems none of this hit HIS pocketbook!

  12. Brent Hansen permalink
    December 9, 2011 8:26 am

    Webelieved,

    You are onto an idea there. We need a full media blast…Amthrax YouTube channel, Facebook fan page etc. etc….Recordings, videos, pdfs, powerpoints, the whole nine yards.

    Why not present people with reality? I would love to do a ‘seminar’ on the mathematics of compensation, the world needs to understand why the odds are higher of earning in Vegas.

  13. webelieved permalink
    December 9, 2011 8:40 am

    Brent all you need is and a few blogs and youtube. I can’t show my id but you are out there so go for it! I am sure Amthrax would back you. And we can back it behind the scenes. We should start a blog, HOW ORRIN WOODWARD AND TEAM LIFE DESTROYED MY LIFE.
    Where ex team can write stories of what happened to them being involved with Team.
    I am thinking of writing an ebook.

  14. Kathy permalink
    December 9, 2011 11:05 am

    Great posts and comments. Has anyone noticed that when you google the Dec. calender for Open Meetings and Monthly Seminars, it’s blank? Did I miss something, or is this really the end? l

  15. December 9, 2011 11:11 am

    @Kathy – You now have to be logged into the TEAM website in order to see the calendar. They recently made this change.

  16. Kathy permalink
    December 9, 2011 3:14 pm

    Thanks for the info Amthrax.

  17. webelieved permalink
    December 10, 2011 2:27 am

    Kathy it really makes them look bad when one can see how many speakers have left and how many meetings have been canceled in the past few years. Especially when Orrin is trying to get the new guy to believe in the supposed growth, he says hes having. Amthrax wrote an article on the declining meetings, and I am sure they didn’t like it. LOL!
    Oh well just another part of the whole truth. 🙂

  18. Murray Lees permalink
    December 12, 2011 1:24 pm

    Thanks for the responses Guys!

    @webelieved: I’m going to check that book out. Thanks!

    @Brent Hansen: I like what you said about “most will not listen to reason due to the lack of material evidence” particularly in terms of cognitive dissonance what’s more evident then the size of the checks the majority of people recieve compared to their total investment/purchases? But you’re right, when you’re subject to Orrin’s hype tactics combined with certain ‘leaders’ subvertly flaunting their wealth to folks, who wouldn’t buy into the hype?

    Orrin is one of the sleaziest snake oil salesmen I’ve ever seen. It hurts me to see others treated in the way Orrin operates.

  19. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    December 13, 2011 10:25 am

    Complete Bullshit once again coming from the self annointed guru. This guy can’t tell the truth if his life depended on it. I really think he believes that he turned to RH and had step to the side and take over the CFO Dept…it was more like, you can’t handle the office challenges so I’m finding someone who can”. He also believes he turned to Rob to once again take over a failing office when in truth he had nobody else to turn to when most of his Senior Staff at the home office flat out resigned, (and yes EVERYONE OF THEM RESIGNED), RH was all he had left. The only thing RH did was figure out ways to “fire” certain loyal employees and hold the remaining ones hostage for their jobs. I think it’s highly laughable that Orrin acts like he mentored and developed RH after the “demotion” when those that worked in the home office know real truth. RH knows he owes his continued employement to someone else and his name doesn’t ryme with Orrin Woodward.

    What many of the koolaid drinkers and butt sniffers left at TEAM don’t know, or don’t want to know is that the Lawsuit killed profit sharing. Numbers were sky high and climbing each and every month prior to the Lawsuit. The home office was struggling in all areas to keep up with demand of everything from tools to open meeting locations…then your gurus got greedy and started the lawsuit. The results were overnight, tool sales dropped, open meeting crumbled, and the office was left spinning in several different directions as OW and CB conjured up ways to keep the lie going.

    Now, OW doesn’t want former RT members to talk in court, nor does he want former office employees to talk. He knows this and he’s trying to deflect attention.

  20. webelieved permalink
    December 13, 2011 10:55 am

    One Time Fly- I know what you say is true, teams were exploding before the lawsuits.
    The guru said he wasn’t going to use profit sharing for lawsuits, he was going to use his own money!
    Is it true that Amway wasn’t going to accredit his system and that is why they really left Quixtar/Amway? That is what I read or heard.
    Truth is so sweet to the ears. Please do tell more. 🙂

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 13, 2011 11:34 am

    Fly~

    Thanks for the laughs! I agree…create a ‘diversion’ …oldest trick in the book but one of their most practiced skills! Funny and one of the most important facts you point out is the lawsuit. Orrin himself, including Laurie stated; O from stage and in black and white..Laurie behind the scenes …he ONLY used ‘his’ money for the lawsuits…so again..It has Nothing to do with the ‘profit-sharing’ or he is just flat out lying!

    I agree and Rob in the end will be sorry he was used. Funny how Orrin gives the RH credit but we all know if Bobbie hadn’t resigned who would be getting the credit.

    Now we all the know the obvious… but just goes to show O and his true character…the decpective little lies he tells. Now, the only way Orrin can ‘justify’ his lies in his own mind is that he changed the ownership of the Team to solely him. Do you think…then he could convince himself all the ‘tool money’ was ‘his money’ and he could tell himself he never lied to anyone? From experience; he is a master manipulator that always has a message behind the message with a double agenda.

    I have been watching and learning a lot from the professional ‘con artists’ and it has been quite enlightening…they all have a set of the same kinds of rules (their rules..illegal, deceiving and manipulating of course) but very interesting one of the #1 tactics is to ‘gain trust’…Hmmm….the supposed ‘smart guys’ who believe it is IQ that prevents people from being conned or recruited and ropped into a cult are looking from the outside in cannot for the life of them figure out how any smart people can be duped. It takes being conned to figure it out! People wonder how this scam is pulled off on a massive scale?

    Heres a clue:

    Their Top Priority of Every Scam Artist… is to gain TRUST (become your best bud) and roll with it as long as they can before they are Found Out!

    So anyone who has an ounce of common sense, could figure out that by reading this site that we have all been deceptively conned and our trust gained and abused!

    I agree the LAST thing O wants is for all of us to go to court and expose this in the Public.. for all their dirty little evil deeds to be exposed. Where then no one could deny the truth any longer. Although, some as with many cult leaders they still will NOT believe the truth… regardless of how brutal the facts are!

  22. david permalink
    December 18, 2011 8:31 pm

    Amthrax you talk alot of BS. You must be gay. Im not part of the team but i have been reading up about Orrin and the team and I have been looking up all your stuff. You are not half the man Orrin is from what I can see. You should go to work at the star magazine or some place like that. You would do a great job!

  23. December 19, 2011 8:57 am

    @David – Please point out which points you have found to be BS.

  24. webelieved permalink
    December 19, 2011 9:19 am

    Wow David you are sure a hater!

  25. webelieved permalink
    December 19, 2011 9:22 am

    For claiming to not be a part of Team/LIFE you sure say some pretty hateful things. It reminds me a lot of Qrush/Orrin. LOL!

  26. das permalink
    December 19, 2011 1:53 pm

    So David, is this how you circumvent the Policies and Procedures of LIFE…just state that you are not part of Team? There sure have been a lot of Orrin and Team/Lief supporters coming to their rescue that state they have never been part of Team. I say you are a bold face liar and you have been under Team indoctrination way too long .

    ” You are not half the man Orrin is from what I can see.” So tell us David how you know that Orrin is such a great man. Do you know something we don’t? Most of us have met this lying piece of crap you are calling a man.

    And then you have the balls to call someone gay that you don’t even know? The truth hurts but it is still the truth David, and it will set you free!

    Keep fighting the good fight Amthrax!

  27. No Team For Me permalink
    December 19, 2011 3:29 pm

    Something fishy about ‘David’. Why would someone who is not a part of TEAM be so passionate about supporting someone he claims to not know?

    More importantly……wasn’t it QRush who called Scott Larsen gay several years ago when Scott Larsen was criticizing Orrin on the Amquix site? And haven’t there been connections made to Orrin and QRush? Hmmmmmmm

  28. John permalink
    December 19, 2011 5:35 pm

    David, Do you really know Orrin Woodward? No one really knows Orrin Woodward. Not even those suposedly closest to him. He is a man who hides his real identity behind a facade of “Lets pretend I’m a great man.” It’s all smoke and mirrors. This man has his followers fooled. He has himself fooled. David, you don’t know this man. The reason so many people on this site do not like him is because they have seen glimpses into this man’s inner being and what they saw has hurt them beyond words. Sometimes people change. I hope he will change one day. If that day comes he has a lot of things to fix and to admit to.

  29. Finally permalink
    December 19, 2011 5:46 pm

    We believed, that is exactly why the left Amway, after they got sued in the UK the whole tool business was going to get revamped and O and company were not going to be able to make the obscene profits any longer. All the stuff he came out with is BS. I know this for fact. He found out at the last Go Diamond in Atalanta. That is when Q dropped the bomb, they also said they were going back to the Amway name

  30. Vogel permalink
    December 19, 2011 5:47 pm

    David said: “Amthrax you talk alot of BS. You must be gay.”

    Hmmm…you seem to talk quite a bit of BS yourself. Following your twisted logic, you must be a zoophile (as well as a hatemonger).

    Now scat puppy F-er.

  31. webelieved permalink
    December 19, 2011 5:58 pm

    Yeah I remember some hush hush stuff going on there. I wondered if there was a strategic reason for Team showing the profit sharing incomes to distributors at that go diamond weekend in april/may of 2007, and then Tim Marks had a fit because someone took a picture of it. I bet they knew they were going to lose their tool business and team was going to leave Amway way back then!
    Kate Vincent was around at a conference and something seemed a bit fishy. I remember feeling very uncomfortable and not wanting to ask any questions or talk to her. Looking back Orrin and Co. didn’t seem to be making the company too happy. All along he made us believe he was the fastest growing blah blah team in Quixtar. What a joke!

  32. Finally permalink
    December 19, 2011 6:04 pm

    yep webelieved, they did know that day, Orrin was sick about it. But as is classic Orrin he did what he does best…..LIE

  33. webelieved permalink
    December 19, 2011 6:04 pm

    It was confusing to me when Tim had a fit. I was like isn’t Team the business? Haven’t you been promoting it like that for years? Now you are finally telling people the truth and your having a fit?
    Well now I see they were promoting the business wrong all along! They probably would’ve gotten in a lot of trouble with Q, that is why he had a fit. I would go so far to say it may have been illegal to do? What do you think Finally?

  34. webelieved permalink
    December 19, 2011 6:12 pm

    Finally- wasn’t that the go diamond weekend where there were weird teams like Hartis was it Jerry etc? I remember wondering who the heck are these people? He spoke at the weekend and than later left the lawsuit?

  35. Finally permalink
    December 20, 2011 3:46 am

    Yes we believed that was the weekend. I remember Harteiss being on stage. It was weird. I am not sure how Orrin reeled them all in but I do remember the lies we were told. And yes they were breaking rules constantly while building the business. It was like a game Orrin and Q played, Orrin built illegally an promoted illegally and Q kept quiet because he produced so many points in his teams. Orrin knew the business didn’t work, in fact he had many discussions about it not working and always claiming he would “fix” the business, but his only intention ever was to keep himself making millions at others expense. If Q wasn’t going to take that tool income away Orrin would have been quite content playing the game with Q forever. As long as there was a one tenth of one per cent chance the new guy could make it he felt he was not lying to people………..

  36. webelieved permalink
    December 20, 2011 4:45 am

    Finally- They took away his tool selling rights because they were being found out in the UK?
    So they had to come after him even thought they allowed the abuses all those years because they got the volume in product sales? I cannot believe that didnt come out in court. Scratch my back and I will scratch yours……..until I get caught, perhaps?

  37. webelieved permalink
    December 20, 2011 4:52 am

    Quixtar sure allowed Orrin and the PC to lie to people in the prospecting meetings. They didn’t tell the truth or say the word Quixtar, ever. Speakers were told by PC to NOT EVER say the word Quixtar while doing open meetings. They were just our supplier. Wow the crap I bought into!
    Remember the emergency conference call Orrin called, when he told us Quixtar was changing it’s name to Amway and I think it was coming out in the press! He wasn’t too happy. I wonder if he knew than he was leaving Q?
    I was so naive I thought Amway was a sister company!

  38. brent hansen permalink
    December 20, 2011 5:46 am

    Finally, one tenth of one percent, hahaha…you crack me up! You understand Q compensation don’t you?

    When prices are too high for the market place, pay to play becomes part of the scheme. Internal consumption will always bring massive failure because in an internal consumption model, all earnings are based solely on the mathematics of the horrendous compensation plan.

    Funny thing is since Q/A is the manufacturer they could afford to pay out 2-3 times more than they do. Especially since most products are keystone priced not once, but 2 or 3 times.

    My friend told me of a scientist he personally knows who invented a children’s product and sold it to a MLM company. He felt bad because he had keystone priced his product from $1 to $2 and sold it to the MLM. Later on he learned the MLM was selling it for $80 per bottle.

Trackbacks

  1. Orrin Woodward (circa 2008) on Joining MonaVie « AMTHRAX

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