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MonaVie Re-Branding Continues, But It’s The Same Old Story For Distributors (Plus Orrin Woodward’s $3 Million “Loan”)

December 14, 2011

The Salt Lake Tribune has a scathing article on MonaVie’s 2012 rebranding efforts. MonaVie 2.0 will involve a slogan change to “MonaVie Community Commerce: The No. 1 Business Opportunity.” MonaVie has had many slogans in the past, including, “Drink It. Feel It. Share It” and “Look Good, Feel Good, Get Free.” Dallin Larsen has also been fond of saying, “The best business in the world, and the best business for the world,” during his presentations. MonaVie can change its slogan however many times it wants, but the fact remains that the majority of people who become MonaVie distributors ultimately lose money. I don’t see how a 98.5% failure rate qualifies MonaVie as (1) the best business opportunity in the world and (2) the best business opportunity for the world.

A choice quote from the article talks about LIFE TEAM’s Orrin Woodward:

Another was former top Amway distributor Orrin Woodward, who received a $3 million loan from Monavie he didn’t have to repay if he met certain recruiting distributor goals, according to a lawsuit Amway filed against MonaVie in 2008 that was settled last year.

This ties in very nicely with the registration shenanigans reported by Ex-TEAM members all throughout this blog.

Over on the MonaVie Media Center, the company is promoting the launch of MonaVie 2.0 in just 29 days. There’s even a (scary puppet) video featuring several Black Diamonds urging people to come. Notice who’s missing? Why Orrin Woodward and his cadre of Black Diamonds. I wonder if they will be present at this event, or if they will be too busy with their LIFE business to attend.

97 Comments leave one →
  1. Murray Lees permalink
    December 14, 2011 12:49 pm

    “Another was former top Amway distributor Orrin Woodward, who received a $3 million loan from Monavie he didn’t have to repay if he met certain recruiting distributor goals, according to a lawsuit Amway filed against MonaVie in 2008 that was settled last year.”

    I thought commissions received for recruitment constitutes an illegal pyrimid scheme…oh wait…it was a ‘loan’…he didn’t have to repay…if he met certain recruiting distributor goals…yep, that sounds like commission to me.

    Anyone care to clarify this cheeky maneurvoring?

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 2:41 pm

    All too telling isn’t it?

    This quote from the Salt Lake Tribune is so telling and explains exactly why Orrin didn’t give a rip about the Leaders, was willing to take out anyone who got in the way of meeting his goal, was in a race to meet his ‘quota’, and was willing to sell out any leader that ‘questioned’ their mafia like orders and actions during the registration.

    BTW~ Great JOB to the reporter and newspaper!

    Did Orrin give any part of that 3 MILLION dollars to all those people who did the work, built their own teams, brought the revenue… right down to the person who ‘held’ their spot or did he just assume he ‘deserved’ it and did all the work? How could leaders go bankrupt because of lawsuits….when there was 3 million dollars up for grabs to help them?

    Another question…Why are some saying they were told (I believe them) Orrin used the ‘Profit-sharing’ for the lawsuits…but Orrin says he didn’t use the Profit-sharing money… was this another way for him to steal from those who earned it? Did he ask all those independent business partners if they felt that was a good idea to take from their incomes to use for HIS lawsuits…that is theft, in my opinion?

    Those leaders…. Years of blood, sweat, tears, time, and money they used to build their own businesses for Orrin to then decide it was his ‘right’ to spend it how he saw fit for HIS malicious lawsuit.. decide what was ‘best’ for everyone’s else’s future incomes and business’, destroyed, manipulated, and used everyone else’s efforts? Did he think we were ‘investors’ which he had the right to control our earned incomes. Bernie Madoff comes to mind. All for his monetary needs to get met? Independent B- Business Owners…really? Independent Business owners make their OWN decisions for what is right for their OWN business, including how their earned income gets spent… they don’t have someone else lying to them and playing with their lives and money!

    All of the PC, including their supposed ‘Christian’ wives…. should be ashamed and crushed under their own conscience..but one problem; in my opinion… it can’t be crushed if you don’t one.

    Will Orrin try and write an article to ‘distract’…create a ‘diversion’… try and cover up more lies and the other PC…go on a smear campaign against the reporter and news paper who exposed this, with all their copy cat, Google bombing websites?
    Very interesting the article also stated MV wouldn’t answer any questions about this. Why would that be… why the lack of transparency?

    It does not take a genius to figure out the lack of honesty and transparency, that could clear up any ‘misinformation’ that I won’t be surprised O comes back with…because we all know he is notorious for blaming the victim, while he plays the victim!

    Anyone would be blind not to see the character melt down process that has happened in the PC and how they were willing to sell out and made their selfish choices; and also those people who have stayed it just becomes clearer and clearer. The clock just keeps ticking…

    No question this is very revealing and exsposes their true characters of those who claim they are Christian and remain peddling the illusive Dream and ‘business opportunity’ that you can become financially, spiritually, relationally…..FREE

  3. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:17 pm

    I just have one thing to say:

    People of integrity expect to be believed; when they’re not , they let time prove them right.

  4. dextersbeard permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:20 pm

    “The past is prologue, study the past”… Team leaves Mona vie, since Mona vie announced the MPV program, bringing the tools business “in house.” (I don’t see Orrin wearing a cowboy hat…do you?) Previously, Team left Quixtar during the accreditation process for tool providers. Anybody wanna take a stab at this one?

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:21 pm

    Amthrax~ Could you put a permanant link to the Salt Lake Article up on your site like you have the Forbes one? Thank You.

    Speak Your Truth permalink

    December 14, 2011 12:23 pm

    **News Flash**

    Here is a public acknowledgement from a Salt Lake City Tribune newspaper article Vogel found.

    Thank You Vogel!!!!!

    Well. well… is a more than interesting article written about MV which makes a statement about Orrin Woodward and his alleged 3 MILLION DOLLAR loan given to him by Monavie..just given to HIM without having to pay it back if he met the recruiting distributor goals were met? This couldn’t be why get them in NOW occured and all the other malicious and criminal and unethical things happened in the registration process…could it??!

    It is now Publically reported from the newspaper!!!! Forgive my ignorance but how is it a loan if you don’t have to pay it back, oh that is right unless he didn’t meet the quota of the recruiting distributor goals according to the paper..

    Here is what it states: the link is under Vogel’s comments that I copied and pasted you can get the full article there!!!! It is worth the read and should open the eyes of the blind followers who have been lied to so many times!

    Quote: ” Another was former top Amway distributor Orrin Woodward, who received a $3 million loan from Monavie he didn’t have to repay if he met certain recruiting distributor goals, according to a lawsuit Amway filed against MonaVie in 2008 that was settled last year.”

    What now Orrin, how will you lie and spin this?

    What will he do with this article? Will he deny it…try and sue the paper? Will he continue to say he isn’t in it for the money and MV was the best busniess for ‘everyone’? Oh how much you cared about others Orrin and your BS ‘bench marking study.’ In my opinion…You are a disgrace to society….it is obvious you ‘moved’ to MV for YOUR monetary needs and gain!!!

    And you seriously want people to believe your complete pile of dung that you are not in it for the MONEY? Seriously? Really? You think People are that stupid or were you just hoping this skelton wouldn’t pop out of your closet that has more skeltons than a grave yard!!!

    You are being found out on a daily basis and the pieces are all falling into view so the unsuspecting and uniformed can ‘see’ for themselves, your true motives, just who you really are and how much you have lied to all of us….

    Vogel says:

    December 14, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Dallin Larceny and Monavie got hammered this week in the Salt Lake Tribune:

  6. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:22 pm


    It is crystal clear….there is a pattern…lol

  7. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:25 pm

    Sorry I meant to include:

    ‘when they are not (…people of integrity…), they left time prove them right.’

  8. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:29 pm


    I couldn’t agree more! Wonder how Orrin likes eating his own words?

  9. brent hansen permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:35 pm

    Beautiful. I had this pegged all along. MLM guys who screw their teams for personal gain are like high priced prosititutes with the clap. What a deal!

    Let’s see, 3 million buck to sell your soul, was that worth it? Bringing your entire group into a model where less than .05% can cover the cost of a single case autoship. Genius freaking bench marking if I might say so myself.

  10. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:40 pm

    Here is more ‘data’ for all you see. This could add to the mounds of ‘data’ and am sure for Mike and Brent it would be just another piece of the puzzle to their already understanding of the MLM industry! Special Deals..comp plans…etc. 🙂

  11. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 3:41 pm

    Oh Brent…LHOL..You must have been posting at the same time!

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 4:37 pm

    I encourage everyone to read the FULL 2 page newspaper article! Orrin knew all along all this stuff…what a liar he is!

  13. December 14, 2011 4:44 pm

    I’ve added a link to the blogroll on the right-hand sidebar.

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 5:08 pm

    Thanks a bunch!

  15. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 14, 2011 5:23 pm

    Oh my goodness… Did anyone see Orrin’s tweets today?

    “If a man cannot trust himself, then he cannot expect to earn the trust of others either.” – Orrin Woodward

    “OLD: If you can’t beat them; join them. NEW: If you can’t beat them; bash them. :)” – Orrin Woodward

    The issue is people think he’s talking about other people when in reality I think this is the most truthful statements I have heard him make about himself.

  16. Vogel permalink
    December 14, 2011 5:24 pm

    The article was amazing…well maybe “amazing” isn’t the right word…”amazingly satisfying confirmation of what we all knew already” would be more apropos.

    Acknowledgement of Orrin’s $3 mil commission — um, “loan” — was the best part. It solidifies my view of how Orrin operates — somewhere between a slave master and a cattle driver. I sort of hate to say that because it’s a bit demeaning to the distributors, but that’s how they were treated — like slaves; cattle; to be bought, sold, or whipped at master’s discretion.

    The other part that really blew me away was the statement from Ralph Carson about Monavie:

    “Carson cautioned that the drink was ‘expensive flavored water. Any claims made are purely hypothetical, unsubstantiated and, quite frankly, bogus,’ according to a court transcript that quoted an Amway attorney. That attorney also read from a portion of a transcript of a deposition in which another attorney questioned Carson:

    ‘You have indicated, as I understood it, during your deposition today, that you never understood or knew the contents of MonaVie’s drink. Is that correct?’

    Answer: ‘Completely correct.’

    ‘When you say completely, what do you mean by that?’

    Answer: ‘If you were to ask me how much açai is in the product, I do not know’.”

    This is the guy who allegedly “invented” Monavie, and he took to the stage to promote the juice to distributors as though it was some kind of miracle — and all along he knew it was nothing more than worthless mystery piss. They ALL knew it!

    It was also nice to see that they got Dallin Larceny’s tenure with Dynamic Essentials on the record, complete with accurate chronology. The article correctly points out that Larsen was still with the company when they ran afoul of the FDA in 2002, which contradicts Dallin’s traditional cover-up story about leaving the company well before the trouble with the FDA (and in some versions of this fairy tale, he left because he objected to DE’s business practices!… that one always made me howl with laughter because all of the advertising transgressions occurred under Larceny’s watch, and advertising/distributor training was his responsibility as VP of Sales and Marketing).

    This spectacular crap-fest known as Monavie looks to be finally nearing an end. Everything seems to be falling apart at the seams. Let’s just hope that the kingpins didn’t blow all of their ill-gotten gains — I’d hate to see them unable to pay restitution when the time comes. If my Monavie Christmas wish comes true, Larceny and Woodworm will see the inside of a prison cell someday soon.

  17. Finally permalink
    December 14, 2011 5:46 pm

    Wow, I cannot wait to hear the spin on this…………Way to go Orrin!!! As you said it’s not about the money………liar liar pants on fire LOL Hey Tim and Chris, did you get a 3 million dollar bonus to sell your souls too??? I bet that sucks, did you know about Orrins deal? I bet that even sucks worse if you didn’t. Orrin, mr integrity and character……..He just sealed his position as a leader that let pride take him down, the only thing missing is the rest of he dirt we are sure to hear about…………I am just dying laughing at all of this. He is as low as they get. Monavie, 6 bucks to make and bottle and 24 for it’s distributors at the lowest wholesale cost………..But it’s different with team lief, he would never use people for profit, he’s the victim, people are jealous, we just don’t have dream, we are all quitters and thumbsuckers, he, however is the man. Get him a cell with Madoff……….Actually that would be an insult to mad off………..

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:02 pm


    “It solidifies my view of how Orrin operates — somewhere between a slave master and a cattle driver.”

    Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! No hurt feelings here I had to bust a gut on that one! And agreed I thought the same thing on ROLF Carson…even though it is one bit funny on how they knew all along and have deceived people!

    Here is a dandy of an explanation…Dallin said he left (I believe this is on a CD) but I heard it told by him from stage that he left his last ‘business’ because the ‘owner’ put up a different Flag..not an American one and left the country and that is why he left!

    I couldn’t agree more…what an amazing validations….I wish for your Christmas Present too! 🙂


    I am with you….great post! What about EARN IT? “Get him a cell with Madoff….laugh out loud….he has no idea he can’t con the con’s in there! He wouldn’t have a chance in hell up against some of the ‘best of the best’ cons in the world, it would sure wake him up from his delusionall dreamy change the world illusion! It is what he needs to snap out of it. 🙂

    Thanks so much to the both of you for the Loads of Laughs experience…that I soooo much needed!!! 🙂

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:10 pm


    I agree 100%…but that is all he’s got to the exposing of LIES he tells…OMg…the guy never ceases to amaze me with his one liners that he thinks changes the Liar he is!

    And he calls that…. leadership?

  20. Vogel permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:20 pm

    SYT said: “Here is a dandy of an explanation…Dallin said he left (I believe this is on a CD) but I heard it told by him from stage that he left his last ‘business’ because the ‘owner’ put up a different Flag..not an American one and left the country and that is why he left!”

    It sounds like that particular statement might have been referring to his tenure as VP at USANA, which preceded his stint with DE. If I’m not mistaken USANA’s Myron Wentz became a citizen of Lichtenstein (money shelter) and opened up a wonky cancer clinic in Mexico.

    It’s probably safe to assume that his “official” reason for leaving USANA was no less full of BS then his excuse about DE.

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:33 pm


    That would make sense…but no mention of leaving any other business of course. 🙂

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:46 pm


    I am afraid it would just hone his skills learning from other bigger cons… 😦

  23. brent hansen permalink
    December 14, 2011 6:46 pm

    hahaha….love the comments, I asked Michael if this was better than Christmas to which he giggled a resounding “Yes”….

  24. Finally permalink
    December 14, 2011 7:10 pm

    Actually this solidifies the lies, not only to us, but to his kids………..Would you honestly raise your kid in his environment???? He knows no bounds…….And please lets not any of us let their wives off the hook just because they cry about their kids on stage……..laurie woodward should be more ashamed of herself as a mother than anything. They know, boy do they know. They are like the old time Mafia wives, they know but they keep their mouth shut to live their life style………You team ladies need to check your selves……no wonder they have so many medical problems. Living the deception causes major health issues. I wonder if any of them still drink MV????????

  25. December 14, 2011 9:58 pm

    any time one of you faceless punks want to come to Chicago, let me know. We will step out in the alley and then you can say to my face what you want about Mr. Orrin Woodward. It will be a very short conversation, ending badly for you.

    [Editor’s Note: This is is a different person from the Mike Collins that also posts on this site.]

  26. humiliated permalink
    December 15, 2011 6:44 am

    Vogel, you say “It solidifies my view of how Orrin operates — somewhere between a slave master and a cattle driver” and I laughed when the video ended with a cow moo’ing! I don’t know if your comment was intentional but well played my friend! I guess Orrin’s cows won’t be in the MV Corral in 2012 though. Nope, they will be fed and slaughtered for Orrin’s own personal dinner table.

    I was also blown away by the comment that Ralph Carson stated on the record about the juice being “expensive flavored water”. This law suit must be a matter of public record, how come we haven’t read the details of the case and the judgement? Have we and I have just forgotten about it? There must be some more juicy tidbits in it?

    And, really MV? That video was the best “marketing strategy” you could come up with for the MV 2.0? You hired and pay Cohen a lot of money for THAT? Was the cow mooing supposed to be funny? Oh dear. You really ARE in trouble.

    Mike, I agree…this IS better than Christmas!! YEEE HAWWWW!!!

  27. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 15, 2011 6:54 am

    Why don’t we all mosey on over to the Salt Lake Tribune article, scroll on down to the comments section, and show the Tribune some love for the fantastic article they have written. The comments are piling up and drawing in some interesting thoughts.

    One of Team’s finest, has commented as well. I know the Tribune readers would love to see some ‘true’ information coming from some of the victims of the scam. Let it rip!

    Switch, it’s time for you to start popping the popcorn…things are heating up! hahaha…

  28. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 15, 2011 7:31 am

    “People of integrity expect…” etc. etc. Yeah Owen loved that one didn’t he? Now he gets to eat it. Shove it down Owen. Hows that taste huh? Whatsa matta? You chokin? Look, look! He’s turnin’ blue!! Hee hee ha ha hoo hoo!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT!

  29. humiliated permalink
    December 15, 2011 7:34 am

    I was thinking the same thing Truthseeker. I read through the comments yesterday and the majority of them are incrediby supportive of shutting MLMs down. I guess the people of Salt Lake City have had enough of the blight of MLM on their beautiful landscape. Must be horrible for people to say to you “oh, you are from SLC, home of the scams!”

    Field trip to the Tribune people! Let’s go!!

  30. Jade permalink
    December 15, 2011 9:06 am

    after reading the Salt Lake Tribune article,by any chance did anyone look at the MonaVie Statement on the Right hand side of the page? 😮

    As for the Comments on the Salt Lake tribune article, I am glad so many people see the truth behind the deception of these MLM giants and the companies that support them.

  31. December 15, 2011 11:09 am

    @Michael Collins: You know by leaving this comment, you’re violating the terms of LIFE’s policies and procedures? Prohibited Postings

    Members may not make any postings, or link to any postings or other material that:

    • Is sexually explicit, obscene, or pornographic;
    • Is offensive, profane, hateful, threatening, harmful, defamatory, libelous, harassing, or discriminatory (whether based on race, ethnicity, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation, physical disability, or otherwise);
    • Is graphically violent, including any violent video game images;
    • Is solicitous of any unlawful behavior;
    • Engages in personal attacks on any individual, group, or entity;
    • Is in violation of any intellectual property rights of the Company or any third party. Responding to Negative Posts
    Do not converse with one who places a negative post against you, other independent Members, or LIFE. Report negative posts to the Company at corpsupport@the-life- Responding to such negative posts often simply fuels a discussion with someone carrying a grudge that does not hold themselves to the same high standards as LIFE, and therefore damages the reputation and goodwill of LIFE.

    Your post here and on the Salt Lake Tribune website violates several of these provisions. Shall we report you to the LIFE police at corpsupport@the-life-

    [Editor’s Note: This is is a different person from the Mike Collins that also posts on this site.]

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 15, 2011 11:29 am

    Now we have an impersonator?…WoW. What people will go to; threats from Chicago..really? To defend Orrin Woodward and protect the ill-gotten gains? Now that is some leadership, not surprised acting a lot like the mafia…my opinion!

  33. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 15, 2011 11:29 am


    I vote you email @corpsupport just for fun. @Michael Collins, do you know the company you keep?

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 15, 2011 11:40 am

    Wow the impersonator really shows all the prospects exactly why they shouldn’t join… who really wants to join Orrin Woodard and the LIEf program where people are making threats. Which F catagory is LIEf now teaching the threats under?

  35. December 15, 2011 11:59 am

    It’s not an impersonator. It’s just another person who has the same name as the Mike Collins who has posted on this site in the past.

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 15, 2011 12:07 pm

    I don’t recall another “Mike Collins” comments on here. Amthrax do you know when he first came on here and under what post? How would anyone know if his real name is Mike Collins?

  37. Finally permalink
    December 15, 2011 12:43 pm

    Actually the challenge from Chicago is interesting and foolish, It would be his last 🙂

    Okay, so when Orrin Moved everyone to MV do you all remember the great lengths he went to to sell us on his “Bench Marking” Of all the MILM’s out there? I mean our up line spewed the crap about the Great Orrin Woodward, master technical bench marker, has no peers in his field, he’s the man, no one is smarter than Orrin…….(did you catch that sarcasm mr Collins) yeah I am talking about your man, Owwin woodward. Any hoot, this is important because the lie is so significant. Orrin supposedly benchmarked all of the available MLM’s in the country and came to the conclusion that MV was the best based on pay plan and product. I mean we are talking about THEE Owwin woodward, bench marking genius. Remember how the others PC’s would rip on people and want to give them a smarter than orrin button? Any way, I am the furthest thing from an engineer, but I do have the intimate details of Owwins benchmarking study. Here you go:

    Benchmarking study of the King Bench marker of the world Orrin A. Woodward.

    MV = 3 million in my pocket
    All Other MLM’s = 0 in my pocket

    Conclusion- we are going with Monavie!!!! Woo HOO

    No really gang this is taken from Owwins actual notes, this is it in full, the whole bench marking study down to a T.

    On another note,

    Mark Crawford
    Billy Florence
    Lance Smith
    Randy Haugen
    Chuck Goetschel
    Don Freeze
    Matt Abraham
    Matt Zimmerman
    Bobbie and Pastor Dickie
    Kevin Thompson

    And many, many more……….
    All of these men have one thing in common, Orrin Woodward. All are extremely intelligent and well read men. Respected in the real world. All have shown character and integrity when it counted. All, to my knowledge are Godly men. So you have to ask your self…….Why have all of these men and many more left Orrin Woodward? The common denominator is Orrin, a man with the most failed relationships I know of. He is a pathological liar, as many have witnessed first hand. Refer to the bench marking study. he has lashed out in anger, used profanity and been just plain mean. These are all things he claims he is against as a leader, self proclaimed leader that is. So why is it that all of these respectable men are no longer affiliated or even have a relationship with Orrin? You will have to answer that one for yourself but I can tell you it is not because they are the problem………One Word will explain it CHARACTER…..more accurately, lack of CHARACTER…… Orrin. All of these men know the true Orrin and it ain’t the self promoting narcissist we all have seen on stage and have heard on CD. I mean all we have to do is look at any of the books he claims are best sellers that he authored….Not one of them sold on it’s own merit. All ran through his system and promotions to the same people…you had 10,000 people buy 10 copies of his books, not 100,000 people buying them. Do you remember Orrins talk on becoming a best selling author???? The publisher was amazed at the number of books that initially were ordered……….Everyone of them went to team……….It makes you want to puke at the way he fawned over himself on stage. yet it was just another of many many falsehoods in his life.

  38. Mike Collins permalink
    December 15, 2011 12:43 pm

    Michael Collins: really mike? Why don’t you find out if what these people are saying is true before you start making threats? Taking it to this level this early in the game only makes you look childish.

  39. December 15, 2011 12:58 pm

    Click on his name, which goes to his Facebook account. He’s also posted on the Salt Lake Tribune article. This was his first comment on this site.

    The original “Mike Collins” has long posted on this site. He started posting when Brent Hansen came on board.

  40. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 15, 2011 1:13 pm


    You push the envelope with @Lance Smith, he is a total scumbag. He made millions molesting other peoples Hispanic Amway teams and bringing them under his tool umbrella. Why do you think the 20,000 Hispanics never came into Team Monavie with him? They all told him to fly a kite, stayed with Amway, and launched their own gig. It was a breath of fresh air to leave his dictatorship and be on their own. Actually, besides Curtis Spolar (who was really in Lance’s corporate downline stayed with Orrin) the Hispanic group was Lance’s bread and butter. They weren’t even in his MLM downline, only his ‘tool’ downline.

    Rumor has it that Lance is lucky to qualify Gold in Monavie, but that is unconfirmed.

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 15, 2011 1:20 pm

    Thanks Amthrax for the clairfication.

  42. das permalink
    December 15, 2011 1:23 pm

    To the tough guy Michael Collins. Are you serious? You would really consider physical violence and risk jail or prison to stand up for the character of this slime bag Orrin Woodward who is milking you for your money? Wow, time to wake up hero.

  43. John permalink
    December 15, 2011 3:18 pm

    To Truth Seeker, well whatever else may be said about Lance Smith, good or bad, at least he had the common sense to distance himself from Team and OrrinWoodward. Hey with that said maybe there’s hope for him after all

  44. Vogel permalink
    December 15, 2011 4:17 pm

    The fake “Michael Collins said: “any time one of you faceless punks want to come to Chicago, let me know. We will step out in the alley and then you can say to my face what you want about Mr. Orrin Woodward.”

    Oooo…tough guy…that’s so scary. ROFL.

    Anonymous 98-pound mental weakling acting like a thug and throwing down an empty challenge. How very brave of you to posture like that. You can report back to Orrin that you defended his honor (pfft) and that it’s now safe for him to step out from behind your skirt.

    Faceless??? I think all of us here have faces (at least I did last time I checked), and with few exceptions (e.g., you) there are no punks here either.

  45. Finally permalink
    December 15, 2011 5:05 pm

    My bad truth seeker, nuke him off the list. I did not know that side of him.

  46. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 15, 2011 7:57 pm


    There is a 99% chance that all supposed ‘leaders’ in MLM are pure scum. They have to be to remain at the top. All of their models are unsustainable so they learn to play the game to keep the checks rolling in. If they are earning, people are losing, pure and simple.

  47. No Team For Me permalink
    December 15, 2011 8:06 pm

    for anyone wondering why many of us do not want to use our full names – just see the above post from the new mike collins.

    This man threatened physical violence in a very public setting. Imagine what the true blue orrin woodward devotees are capable of. These people are so brainwashed. If someone would post such a threat publicly, is it not a safe assumption that there is a possiblity someone could actually commit murder to prove their loyalty. Sounds extreme, but read the above post again. This was a post on a public forum and seemed VERY serious about wanted to inflict harm on someone.

    He is a great example of the hypocrisy of TEAM/Life – claiming to stand for principles, values, integrity, etc. Is that the way a person of integrity conducts themselves when they are upset with someone? Yikes!

  48. Vogel permalink
    December 15, 2011 8:47 pm

    Totally agree. The last thing I want is to have to shoot a deranged revenge-seeking distributor trying to invade my home.

  49. Finally permalink
    December 16, 2011 5:21 am

    Honestly gang, I think the guy is talking crap……..I do agree about being smart and keeping safe as well. What you probably have is a guy wanting to prove his loyalty and chose this stupid way to prove it

  50. December 16, 2011 7:26 am

    I see all of you “telephone tough guys” are pretty silent. We have a really nice airport, fly in and we will have a little chat, in fact, I will buy the tickets from my own pocket. One that is rather deep due to my association with the very people you disparage.

  51. Murray Lees permalink
    December 16, 2011 7:42 am

    @Mike Collins: As Amthrax mentioned to you earlier on this thread…

    “ Prohibited Postings

    Members may not make any postings, or link to any postings or other material that:

    Is sexually explicit, obscene, or pornographic;
    Is offensive, profane, hateful, threatening, harmful, defamatory, libelous, harassing, or discriminatory (whether based on race, ethnicity, creed, religion, gender, sexual orientation, physical disability, or otherwise);
    Is graphically violent, including any violent video game images;
    Is solicitous of any unlawful behavior;
    Engages in personal attacks on any individual, group, or entity;
    Is in violation of any intellectual property rights of the Company or any third party. Responding to Negative Posts

    Do not converse with one who places a negative post against you, other independent Members, or LIFE. Report negative posts to the Company at corpsupport@the-life- Responding to such negative posts often simply fuels a discussion with someone carrying a grudge that does not hold themselves to the same high standards as LIFE, and therefore damages the reputation and goodwill of LIFE.”

    Why are you violating your own contract with Big Daddy Orrin whom you are so fond of your association with?

  52. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 16, 2011 7:46 am

    Look whos calling us telephone tough guys. It seems you would fall in the same catagory dude.

  53. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 16, 2011 7:54 am

    That must be his attempt at “Making a difference.”

  54. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 16, 2011 8:53 am

    I am sure the FBI would be very interested in flying in and meeting this guy, I just wonder if he would be willing to pay from the deep pockets for the FBI’s plane ticket also? Deep pockets? Is he for hire by the deep pockets because of the association? Is Orrin and the PC now promoting violence? Since Orrin is reading this, and knows who this guy is, he should have a come to Jesus meeting with Mike and share some of his onliner leadership that he has against violence.

    I am not seeing it… from the LIEf comp plan…I am curious how he could get such deep pockets? According to the comp plan he would have to be in the TOP 1% and we all know what those odds are. And I haven’t seen this guy advertised as a PC either.

  55. December 16, 2011 9:08 am

    Pity him folks. He’s in deep. He has found acceptance in LIEF (as long as he keeps paying) and feels they are his family now.

    Funny thing though, Lord Woody, Baby, and Clod don’t seem to be able to have open discussions on their blogs to discourage the very behaviour being demonstrated right here in front of our very eyes.

    Hopefully LIEF prospects will find their way here and see the disturbing loyalty portrayed by this gentleman.

  56. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 16, 2011 9:13 am

    I agree Rocket..this is unacceptable with the threats. Orrin now see’s he has violated the P&P’s and also he is obviously representing them with threats, Orrin should take his deep pockets away because God knows he takes others away without cause. And if he is the man…of integrity then he should uphold his own P&P’s and enforce them…This is not looking good.

  57. Mike Collins permalink
    December 16, 2011 9:18 am

    Is that how they do things in Chicago mike? Attempt to suppress truth under threat of violence/bodily harm? What exactly is it that you object to? People telling their personal experiences with your beloved mentor or is it the threat to your personal gain?

    If you want to engage in some dialogue in defense of your master then please, go ahead. But your ridiculous threats are just that, ridiculous. I doubt you’re scaring anyone here.

  58. Vogel permalink
    December 16, 2011 9:23 am

    Michael, considering the depth of your pockets why don’t you do something worthwhile with your money — take the cash that you would have used to buy a plane ticket for me to fly down and thrash your sorry worthless ass and instead donate to a charity for needy children or the homeless. It’s the least you can do after making such a colossal fool of yourself.

  59. December 16, 2011 9:34 am

    The “Christian” Mike Collins, I see that on your facebook page you claim to be a Christian. Is that so? Did Orrin make you become a Christian? I see that you say you are but your surely not acting like one! Do you think that Christians should call people names (punks) and threaten them with bodily harm by saying things will end badly for them? Is that your idea of what a Christian should act and behave like? I also see that your pretty high on Mike Collins. Do you always talk about how deep your pockets are to strangers? Is that where your love lies? As a Christian I am sure you know what the Bible says about pride and the love of money that is pouring out of your comments. Should a Christian ignore and disobey the working rules that his company has set up? Your company says that you should not be commenting on here and even after it was pointed out to you, you still kept the comments coming. Way to be a living example of what a Christian should look like. Everything you say should be discredited just from you being such a fake. Thanks for ruining your testimony on here so that the rest of the hundreds of team people can see what your really like. If want to you worship Orrin that’s up to you but I would appreciate it if you would take the “I am Christian” off of your facebook you cannot worship both man and God. You’re a perfect example of what Christians are not supposed to look like.

  60. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 16, 2011 10:19 am

    team deception~

    Excellent points and I too agree he should take the Christian ‘status’ off his fb page his behavior is a disgrace. I wonder if he got the ‘text message’ yet that tells him he is ‘voted out’ of profit-sharing…if not it sends a strong message to the readers about their ‘leadership one-liner training’ and shows what behavior they do condone.

  61. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 16, 2011 11:00 am

    But he is making a difference.

  62. Finally permalink
    December 16, 2011 11:10 am

    Wow, you know what they say….When someone is making an A_ _ of himself do not interrupt him. One thing I have learned in my many many years of dealing with people like him is that if you have to talk about it, you are not it. I am not a mafia fan but it is degrading to even them to compare this guy, MC, with them. His threats are empty, and so are his pockets, most likely. Like I said if you have to broadcast it then you don’t have it………

  63. Mike Collins permalink
    December 16, 2011 2:24 pm

    Vogel: some day I will buy you a beer OR some other beverage of your choosing if per chance some day we meet!

  64. Vogel permalink
    December 16, 2011 4:39 pm

    I look forward to it Mike. I’m already there in spirit. 🙂

  65. December 16, 2011 4:45 pm

    You are entitled to your opinion, however misguided it may be. I am sure you all know what Chris Brady says about critics. I am going to stay away from this site and leave all of you to wallow in your half truths.

  66. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 16, 2011 5:36 pm

    Michael Collins~

    Which part of your threats being pointed out from you, is a ‘half-truth’ or is it that about the topic of this thread based on the Salt Lake City Newspaper Article and Orrin’s 3 million dollar contiginacy loan he received?…If so, then which part of that Article is a ‘half-truth’ or any other comments for that matter?

    You should recognize there isn’t anyone but YOU on here who gives a rip what Chris Brady says, or thinks of critics or anything else.. but then I thought that would be evident; we know all too well about Chris Brady and the company he keeps and what his word is worth.

    BTW~ Chris can apply it to himself what he “says about the critics” and because he is a ‘critic’ of the critics. Maybe it is just me but isn’t that obvious to you?

    Did you get the ‘text message’ about your profit-sharing and business being taken from you because YOU did violated the P&P’s or was there some other reason you have decided to leave?

    BTW~ To the good Mike Collins, I apologize I didn’t even realize the other guy goes by Michael…and there is no comparison or doubt who is the good one. 🙂

  67. Finally permalink
    December 16, 2011 5:57 pm

    Quoting Brady in here LOL /what a joke. Amen speak on your comment about Brady being a critic of the critics…It continually amazes me how they or their cronies do not see their own hypocrisy.

  68. brent hansen permalink
    December 16, 2011 6:21 pm

    Doesn’t matter doesn’t matter doesn’t matter…hahaha…Critic of the critics, love it Speak!

  69. Vogel permalink
    December 16, 2011 8:52 pm

    Oh man! I just saw this new pile of garbage on Troy Dooly’s site (I refuse to post a link to it because that jackass doesn’t deserve the bump):

    “MonaVie has announced they will launch MonaVie 2.0 on January 13th & 14th 2012. Given the fact they have hired Jeff Cohen as their new CMO, I have a feeling 2012 will be an eventful year for the MonaVie reps.

    Another piece of news surrounding MonaVie is their new focus on compliance. Over the last few years regulators and critics have hit MonaVie hard for not reprimanding reps for the sometimes outrageous health claims. And having read some of these claims, and seeing the 3rd party lab tests on the juice, I can see why the feds were very upset.

    I find this one more positive step Dallin Larsen and his team are taking to make sure they do not go the way of other network marketing rising stars, like Sea Silver, or Burn Lounge.”

    Wow!. So now that the company has its back against the wall and seems to be hanging on by a thread, Troy is finally ready to admit the truth. Talk about being a day late and a dollar short; a cross between a Monday morning quarterback and an unabashed apologist.

    Troy is throwing down a little smokescreen for the execs with his BS about how they were lax in not reprimanding reps for outrageous health claims. He’s trying to pass the buck and deflecting the blame when we all know that all along these claims were coming from the very top. Carson, Brig Hart, Jason Lyons, Marsh, and Dallin himself were all complicit, and there is documented evidence to prove it. They were pulling these shenanigans on stage at major meetings for crying out loud. Who do these crooks think they’re fooling.

    And if you want to see some real hypocrisy, look at this comment Dooly wrote on his site back in Sept 2010 in an article about Dallin Larsen:

    “What cure claims are you referring at MonaVie? I have reviewed this company inside and out, and have never seen any cure claims. If you can produce these claims, I will report on this issue. As for misrepresentation, MonaVie has terminated folks for misrepresenting the company and products.”

    And now a year later in his latest blog post he basically says that it’s public knowledge that the outrageous claims had been taking place for the past few years. The critiques about health claims and the crap nutritional content of Monavie have been around for ages, but only now when it’s too late and Monavie is begging for its life does Troy open his yap about it.

    Aggh. The guy makes me sick! Like I said before, he’s Monavie’s little lapdog…Tokyo Rose..third-rate propagandist.

    The one thing that aroused my curiosity was Dooly’s comment that: “Over the last few years regulators and critics have hit MonaVie hard.” The only regulatory action taken against Monavie that’s on the public record (on the Internet at least) is the 2007 warning letter sent in regard to some advertising by Kevin Vokes. Such letters (know as “FDA cyberletters”) are a far cry from a “hard hit”. It’s more like a very gentle nudge whispered softly in their ear; i.e. “we’d really appreciate it if you’d stop doing that OK? Thanks!”.

    My guess is that Troy knows about FDA enforcement actions against Monavie that we aren’t privy to. I’ve suspected that such actions were taking place behind the scenes for the last year or so — that’s around the time that people first started filing FDA complaints, and then, a short time later the company finally started paying lip service to compliance training (presumably not a coincidence). And now according to Troy, the company is making further gestures to step up compliance. I don’t think they’d be doing that unless the FDA were breathing hard down their necks.

  70. brent hansen permalink
    December 16, 2011 10:29 pm

    Better yet Vogel are the comments our own Michael Collins has pasted up on Troy’s Facebook thread on the same article, Michael is laying in to him big time. Great job Michael!

    “Troy Dooly ‎@Michael, Not sure how much you have followed MonaVie lately. But if you have studied the new operational team that has been hired, you might change your mind. It seems, like most companies, inside and outside of network marketing, they are through the startup phase, and realize they are not in the stage where they have to tighten the ship. Their CCO (Chief Compliance Officer), and the new CMO (Cheif Marketing Officer) have been working hand in hand to clean up a lot of issues. I remember in 1983, when folks said “Herbalife is done in the USA” after all the negative press and Senate Hearings… Guess they were wrong. 🙂 Although only time will tell, from talking with reps at all levels, the attrition seems to have stablized and they are excited about 2012.”

    Michael’s Response:
    ” Like I said Troy, The growth is anything but organic. You of all people should know this and I think you do (wink wink) or is this the MLM advocate speaking in you?
    And I’m not assuming anything…..but you probably know this as well?”

    ‘ Also, I can almost guarantee I have followed MV a lot more closely than you have Troy. As a matter of fact here are the rank advancements for last week.

    1 Hawaiian Blue diamond NOT in the U.S. 2 Blue Diamonds NOT in the U.S. 2 Diamonds NOT in the U.S. 5 Emeralds NOT in the U.S. 9 Rubies NOT in the U.S. 59 Golds with ONLY 5 in the U.S. 53 Silvers with ONLY 3 in the U.S. and 109 Bronzes with ONLY 3 in the U.S.

    That’s a total of 240 rank advancements, not counting the lower ranks, with ONLY 13 of them coming from the U.S. That’s 94.5% of the “growth” in MV coming from the international market. The most telling statistic is at the Bronze level. This is by far one of the easiest ranks to “buy” and the best they can produce is 3 out of 109.

    It will almost take an act of God to revive MV in the U.S. and true networkers know this. This is why they have moved on. Have you heard any big networker going to MV lately? I didn’t think so. All that is left is the international market and the ignorant few that haven’t heard of this farce yet.

    I got news for you Troy, this ain’t 1983 (that was 29 years ago) and MV ain’t Herbalife….not by a long shot.

    And since the COO and CMO are busy “cleaning up issues” maybe they can add Calvin Becerras’ false income claims on Ted Nuytens site to their list of things to do.

    As far as real scams go, whenever you’re ready to do some real change instead of being afraid to step on certain peoples toes (obviously that’s hard to “monetize”) you let me know. Maybe we could start with MV…………”

  71. No Team For Me permalink
    December 17, 2011 1:12 pm

    Orrin Woodward benchmarking study = see what company can give me the most money for switching my group AND will allow me to sell tools.

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 17, 2011 1:39 pm

    Truth passes through three phases:

    First it is ridiculed.
    Second it is fiercely and violently opposed.
    Third, it becomes self-evident.

    — Arthur Schopenhauer

    This seems to be evident in Troy’s process and many others defenders. 🙂

    Finally & Brent~

    Not only is Chris along with Orrin, the rest of the PC and defenders a “Critic”.. of the critics. they ARE the biggest “Critics” I know.

    They are “Critics” of the American School Systems, Government, Corporate America, Bosses, Any other ways to make money…etc..etc…etc.. “Critics” of anyone who disagree’s with them period!”

    They are “Critics”…Period!

  73. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 17, 2011 6:38 pm


    The judgment, criticism and arrogance is putting it mildly..funny.. he didn’t want to ‘sound’ like Hilter?… They don’t have to worry about ‘sounding like’… they act like him…just read the P&P’s.

    They criticize Family, Friends, and everything else that don’t think like them, act like them, or aren’t worshiping them, all the while claiming they are ‘different’ than the ‘out-side world’…making it ‘seem’ they are better than everyone else…in-laws they call outlaws (trying to be funny while sending the message…if they don’t agree with you then it is….You against them.

    Interesting one of the main characteristics of a destructive cult is the ‘us vs them’ mentality the cults create. The team creates this with Everything outside of them.

  74. humiliated permalink
    December 18, 2011 5:42 am

    MV Corporate is attempting to do some damage control Vogel but, as you say, the irony is that they are the ones that created the damage. I know that the leaders actually mocked the FDA at their conventions and said from the stage “I know that we aren’t ‘allowed’ to say that MonaVie cured such and such” wink wink, implying “go ahead and say it, just don’t get busted”.

    Dallin Larceny & Brig Hart along with all of their greedy little Diamonds know for a fact that they made statements like the above and paraded people up on stage who stated that they had “been ah cuuuuurrreeed….hallelujah!!!…Praise Monavie!!!” I KNOW for a FACT that this happened with the blessing & presence of Larceny & Hart.

    I think the saddest part is that they are blaming the distributors for this behavior that they blatantly taught them and encouraged them to use as part of their sales pitch. The distributors, so confused are simply accepting responsiblity and saying that they have been naughty, just like the puppets on the string that they are. I just really hope that there are some ex-distributors that provide evidence on this issue in the class action law suit.

    Brent, Mike Collins is kicking some butt over on the Tribune blog as well! I think we all need to keep having our voices heard so let’s make some noise there as well people!

  75. brent hansen permalink
    December 18, 2011 11:14 am


    I’ve got my eye on Michael, he is quite the ‘rascal’ himself if I might say so.

  76. Finally permalink
    December 18, 2011 4:09 pm

    What is funny to me is how the lower level lemmings rip on their PC and Orrin and Chris. Our former triples lambasted all of them. The wife of the couple was so jealous of her up line pc lady that she took every opportunity, outside of the bigger meetings, to make fun of her personal issues and make sure we all knew what a crummy mother she was. These are the same people that would swear their kids when we were there and go on stage and act like the perfect little couple that they weren’t. The disrespect I heard as they talked to each other amazed me. Phonies………all of em……..

    Humiliated, what is the other blog you are referring to?

  77. Finally permalink
    December 18, 2011 6:06 pm

    An interesting note. The king critic and quitter of them all is Orrin. He is on numerous cd’s being a critic. Here is the short list,
    Orrin is a critic of:

    College and education
    business, other than his
    any MLM he is not part of (most of this was done anonymously)
    Other religions
    Other Leaders
    Any individual that has left his team
    Q and Amway

    I mean think of it, for years he promoted and profited from Q/Amway and defended them against any and all comers. Made cd’s about how to defend agains people that accuse them of being a pyramid. Then and only when Q suffered a devastating legal blow in the UK which was going to force them to change the tool business of the different leaders in the US (Orrin was gonna lose the ability to profit from the tools if he stayed with Q) did he turn around and sue them for the very thing he defended them on for years. Being a pyramid. So what was his answer..QUIT……Yep Orrin Quit, along with quitting GM and Quitting college Orrin continued his long history of quitting by quitting Q. He jumps into MV with a nice 3 million dollar bonus but now that he wants to up the profits he essentially quits MV. He is the biggest critic of anyone that does not agree with, quits, or follows his philosophy but he is the biggest and boldest quitter of them all.. And let’s not give Tim or Chris or any of the PC a break. They also excel at both criticizing and quitting as well. I do not know if I can put it all in words but think of how they have quit being respectable for the name of profit…………..I mean they sold out their wives, kids, Pastor, family and convince a number of others to do the same. Orrin quit on Pastor Dickie……and even worse he then used his influence to convince others to quit Pastor and his church as well. None of this was done for biblical reasons yet they do it in God’s name. I am no biblical scholar but I do think God has a special place for those who claim to be his and mislead others that truly are God’s, in his name. They are despicable human beings.

    Tim quit on the Mike and Kristi, George quit on the Morgan’s, they all quit on their jobs and the companies the supported them for years. Do not cut them any slack, share your stories and spread the truth about them. And if possible make them pay restitution for the damage they have done.

  78. Vogel permalink
    December 18, 2011 10:37 pm

    Wow! Let’s see how MV will rebrand this. Newsflash…Monavie kingpins are literally being physically beaten in India. All hell is breaking loose.

  79. humiliated permalink
    December 19, 2011 7:21 am

    “Finally”, the blog I am referring to are the comments made after the Salt Lake City Tribune on-line article referenced in this article. Just go to Amthrax’s article above and click on ‘scathing article on Monavie’s 2012 rebranding efforts’ in the first line (hi-lighted in red) and it will take you to the article. There are comments at the bottom of the first page but the article itself is several pages long. I just thought if we went and spoke of the atrocities of MLM in general, we could keep the dialogue going there and get more and more of the public’s attention.

  80. Mike Collins permalink
    December 19, 2011 7:36 am

    This guy is unbelievable. After all his pontificating about being a consumer/distributor advocate and all his his patronizing bullsh@t on this blog he is going to review the new Lief book. Like I said Troy, when you’re ready to make some real change instead of worrying about whose toes you step on because you’re not able to “monetize” it….you let me know. I’m all in.

    And Troy….your actions don’t support your “mission.”–living-intentionally-for-life

  81. brent hansen permalink
    December 19, 2011 7:56 am

    Unbelievable, I am listening right now. Lets see what kind of fluff Troy throws up now.

  82. Vogel permalink
    December 19, 2011 8:10 am

    Wow! Have you guys been following the story of Monavie in India? The kingpins are literally being beaten by outraged mobs.

    I wonder how Monavie will rebrand that…

    “Monavie…Live it…Feel it…Get Your Teeth Knocked Out!”

  83. brent hansen permalink
    December 19, 2011 8:20 am

    Feel it, share it, get your ass kicked!

  84. Vogel permalink
    December 19, 2011 8:28 am

    I don’t envy Randy Larsen’s job. He’s doing Monavie’s international dog-and-pony show …probably to afraid to step off the plane in some of these countries now. They got screwed in Germany, Singapore, and China, and now they’re getting physically beaten in India. I can only imagine what other indignities await the MV pins in the near future.

  85. Mike Collins permalink
    December 19, 2011 8:31 am

    Probably one of the nicest things about these countries is that they can get away with kicking someones ass. And a good ass kicking is what some of these crooks from over here in the U.S. need…..

  86. Vogel permalink
    December 19, 2011 8:53 am

    I wasn’t going to say it…but I’m glad you did.

    I just had a mental image of Larceny, Hartless, and Woodworm being tarred and feathered.

  87. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 19, 2011 9:59 am

    Interesting quote I picked up from Troy Dooly’s blog talk book review on the new “Life” by Orrin and Chris. ” Anyone wanting to be a leader should be judged by his scoreboard, and not by his self-proclamations.” pg 31 of the new Life book.

    What scoreboard does this refer to? Personal bankruptcies of key leaders? Stolen teams? Confiscated profit sharing? Turnover of distributors? Percentage of personal financial failure? Allocation of compensation dollars? Broken relationships? Repossessed homes or automobiles? Divided families?

    Just wondering, what is the real scoreboard?

  88. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 19, 2011 11:24 am

    Troy just can’t seem to be decisive whether he thinks Orrin is a ‘leader’ or isn’t…Troy said in his other video.. pharaphrased; He (meaning Orrin) isn’t even a good leader sometimes and will have to face judgement someday for his good & bad deeds? implying he knows something. He seems to chicken to step on some.. toes. It seems to me he is neither hot nor cold, and other times like now, decides to ‘promote’ Orrin and Chris. How can you promote these guys after all the mounds of the ‘preponderance of evidence’?

    Which is it? Does he know they breached contracts, Orrin=Qrush and behind the other anonyomous blogging smear campaign, stole others teams & money that many people verify. etc…or did he just ‘choose’ to believe whatever line O fed him without Orrin giving him ‘proof’.. and took his word? And if he knows O did these things then; Do you promote crooks or don’t you? It is mindboggling how he continues to promote them, but that is his choice, I have a feeling someday it will come back to bite him..then what? Oh he knew all along?

    “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other,
    So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth.”~NIV

    I agree, Truthseeker… the scoreboard of their character and deeds or is their ‘scoreboard’ what Troy’s newschannel and what Orrin says is the ‘scoreboard’ (propaganda)? Troy says; you shouldn’t ‘beleive’ everything you read on the internet….lol. Then that would include what he says on the ‘internet’! It is always in the MLM world you are only to believe what they say..the news or internet if it doesn’t come from their propaganda….

    The cover up and hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me.

  89. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 19, 2011 11:27 am

    oops didn’t finish the sentence. If it doesn’t come from their propaganda…then you are not suppose to believe it!

  90. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 19, 2011 11:30 am

    I am surprised this video won’t be a representive in the US, especially when those like the the thug.. Michael Collins, when he quits and Orrin screws him over..will the threats be turned on them, then?

  91. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 19, 2011 11:32 am

    There have been a few other crazies come on never

  92. humiliated permalink
    December 30, 2011 11:34 am

    Speaking of crazies, here is another person threatening to “expose” Lazy Man regarding his alleged scamming of the government. What I find fascinating is that instead of really trying to get to the truth of the matter, these people resort to black mail tactics (or violence) in order to protect these cults.

    Lazy Man’s site (and the Juice Scam site) were a large part of my educational process when I left Monavie and it led me to this site. Amthrax and Lazy are doing a wonderful thing here encouraging everyone to keep having their voices heard and have the truth come out.

  93. oldschool permalink
    February 14, 2014 6:11 pm

    Lauging my head off.I was duped into the TEAM scam in 2005.I was a contractor working my ass off to make ends meet!I was talked into going to all the meetings ,paying alot of money to hear supposed success stories.A year and a half into it i seen the light!!Ive since heard how the guy who got me started had filed bankruptcy,how is that he should be rich already.I spent alot of time and money just to throw the cds away!!!ITS A SCAM

  94. February 15, 2014 10:27 am

    @oldschool – thanks for sharing your story briefly with us. What made you come to this site, seeing that you left in 2006? Were you searching the web for information on your old upline?

  95. August 9, 2015 1:00 am

    Curtis Spolar , Orrin Woodward are scam artists stealing peoples money in the life leadership scheme and will stop at nothing to be career criminals.


  1. Orrin Woodward (circa 2008) on Joining MonaVie « AMTHRAX
  2. The Team Builders Textbook… circa MonaVie « AMTHRAX

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