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Plans A, B, C, and D: Comparing Tweets By Orrin Woodward (circa Jan. 2011) and Orrin Woodward (circa Dec. 2011)

December 29, 2011

What a difference a year makes!

Today, there was this tweet from “leadership guru” Orrin Woodward:

A leader’s Plan A fail as much as a non-leaders. The difference is a leader plans B, C, D, etc until the goal is accomplished.

Orrin Woodward, December 29, 2011

Now, compare this with another Orrin Woodward tweet from just 11 months ago:

A Plan B is just an admission that you have surrendered Plan A.

Orrin Woodward, January 16, 2011

Does this mean that while Orrin was working on Plan A, he had already surrendered it in favor of Plan B? But, he was already getting Plan C in motion, so he also surrendered Plan B? But he knew in advance that Plan C would fail, so he had Plan D in his back pocket?

I wrote extensively about this in a post titled, Orrin’s A-TEAM Plan B back in February, 2011.

Let’s recap the many plans of Orrin Woodward:

  1. Plan A: Amway
  2. Plan B: Quixtar
  3. Plan C: MonaVie
  4. Plan D: LIFE

Whose goals is he trying to accomplish? His followers’ goals or his own goals? If Amway, Quixtar and MonaVie failed for him, what does that say about the goals of the tens of thousands of followers he’s had over the course of the past two decades?

In the event that Orrin decides what he really believes in and deletes one (or both) of these two tweets, here is a screenshot.

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45 Comments leave one →
  1. das permalink
    December 29, 2011 10:42 am

    Very interesting yes indeed. I remember reading the posts of team members after Orrin announced they were joining MonaVie. A lot of the team supporters asked point blank questions about “the Walmart of the Internet”. Orrin gave them all the same answer: “this is only phase one” and then went on to say he couldn’t elaborate more because of the pending law suits.

    He told them there would be phases 2, 3, 4, and that they should just trust their leadership because the “Walmart of the Internet” would happen.(PIPE-DREAM)

    Plan “E” make up more lies and websites to make Team look like a legitimate business model because people are dropping out faster than they can recruit new prospects. It’s a recruiting scam, and easy to see when you quit drinking the kewl-aide.

    More truth will be revealed. His days of being a self-proclaimed guru are numbered.

  2. December 29, 2011 10:49 am

    I believe the term is self serving. Woody serves himself. Period.

    Anyone who thinks otherwise will lose money.

  3. Peachy permalink
    December 29, 2011 11:36 am

    It’s amazing how he keeps talking in circles, and yet those still involved are chasing their tails. Glad I am out.

  4. December 29, 2011 1:37 pm

    Looks like Orrin is suffering from cognitive dissonance too.

  5. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 29, 2011 1:55 pm

    Amthrax for TIME Person of the Year! You are doing great work time and time again.

  6. December 29, 2011 2:12 pm

    @Freedomhaha – Thanks for the sentiment, but I’d rather be the “TEAM Person of the Year,” noted for helping TEAM members become ex-TEAM members.

  7. Arturo permalink
    December 29, 2011 3:01 pm

    My favorite recent orrin quote is the size of your bank account is in direct relation to the number of problems you solve. This helped me see things differently. I had Bernie Madoff pegged as a crook that hurt people but apparently he was just good at solving a lot of problems. I need to study some more Orrin quotes so I can get a new perspective in life.

  8. Vogel permalink
    December 29, 2011 5:21 pm

    When someone tells so many lies it becomes very difficult to keep track of them all. To do so would take a much smarter person than Woodwart. That’s why he now looks like a complete and utter fool, stumbling over his own lies every time he opens his mouth.

  9. December 29, 2011 5:41 pm

    @Vogel – sadly, many of his followers don’t seem to realize his contradictions and lies.

  10. Spooked permalink
    December 29, 2011 6:16 pm

    I know a few people involved in this thing…. they talked me into going to a meeting, 5 minutes into the web cam I knew it was all BS..They were clapping and cheering like Orrin was in the room…I felt like I was in the twilight Zone…I sometimes talk to one of them and all I get is big meeting tonight…were making lots of money..when I ask have you made as much as you put into it the subject is changed..I was even told that the leadership books would be good for my kids to read…I hope das is right, that more people are dropping out than getting in..As for me i just dont get it..

  11. Katie permalink
    December 29, 2011 7:13 pm

    Arturo – you are hilarious!
    Spooked – you are right, it is very bizarre. Good for you for picking up on it right away. If you think you have a chance to save any of those people from getting sucked in deeper, tell them about this website. Amthrax does great work.

  12. brent hansen permalink
    December 29, 2011 7:15 pm

    @Spooked, welcome to reality! These guys could just cut us all a check for….lets say….$10,000 – $50,000, take their loses, and stay home with their kids. Product based pyramid schemes only work for those who are positioned or chosen to earn, the rest pay in and earn nothing. Glad you caught on quick. Here is a good read for you.

    http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/research/mlm-statistics/shocking-stats/

  13. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 6:03 am

    @brent hanson, now that was some good reading material..thanks..
    @Katie, I’ve sent them the FTC report and this link …their response was their just a bunch of lazy asses who dont know what their talking about…. you dont put the time in you dont make the money..I also asked …if Orrin owns the juice the books and cds and whatever else… how could it ever be your business??? Their totally brainwashed…I just hope they see the light before they lose everything….

  14. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 6:30 am

    I also saw a couple teenagers(14 maybe 15 yrs old) at the meeting with leadership books in their hand…Can anybody tell about whats in these books?? Is it more brainwashing??

  15. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 30, 2011 7:35 am

    @ Arturo- It was amazing. When I quit Team, I solved a problem. Then my bank accounts grew!

  16. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 30, 2011 7:41 am

    Heres my contribution to the “quote of the day”. Some birds say tweet tweet. Others have said cukoo cukoo.

  17. December 30, 2011 8:07 am

    If the leadership books were written by Orrin and Chris (i.e. Launching a Leadership Revolution, Resolved, etc.), they are likely a compilation of quotes and stories from bonafide leaders (from history), with some side-commentary from Orrin Woodward or Chris Brady.

  18. December 30, 2011 9:35 am

    @Spooked – How much of the meeting was devoted to talking about MonaVie? Did they try to get you to sign up for MonaVie, TEAM, and/or LIFE?

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 30, 2011 9:57 am

    Brent~ “These guys could just cut us all a check for….lets say….$10,000 – $50,000, take their loses, and stay home with their kids.”

    THey SHOULD cut some way bigger check.. that would be the right thing to do since they stole it and they owe a lot of people a lot of money. But we all know they are not into doing the right thing.

    Spooked~ “The twilight zone” …hahaha for sure! I still laugh histerically @ the clapping and applauding to a t.v. screen, and I agree how cultish is that! Glad you have used your criticial thinking and didn’t fall for the ’emotional’ trap. Welcome to the site!

    Legally you cannot register with the LIEf program until your 18, so only a couple of things could explain the ‘teenagers’ being there.They have became so desperate and have to resort to the younger and younger; the niave and even more unsuspecting, because they can’t trick the older wiser people. The internet is a beautiful thing and Vogel nailed it.

    The second thing is they are bringing their ‘children’ because they NEEDED some xtra ticket counts to get paid and produce some more ‘fake’ numbers recognition, which they think gets people to ‘believe’ there is growth..hahaha but people aren’t stupid.

    It is a sad state of affairs because some people fall for the BS, not because they don’t see the obvious but because they want to believe it so badly. It is systematically set up to do just that …trick (convince, coerce, and trap) people long enough to get them fully vested; then they feel trapped and eventually ignore the truth and ‘buy in’ to the supposed noble ’cause’.

    Nothing new under the sun…these guys are so predicitable,..what they call a ‘proven system’ is nothing more than a money transfer scheme and their (tactics) are as old as Amway. That is where they learned it all!!

  20. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 11:08 am

    @Amthrax, Yes they tried signing me up for Mona Vie and Team…when I said No they still tried to push it on me..then it was we have something bigger going on which was LIFE… the next call was..This thing is huge you should really join now .. And no I heard nothing about MONA VIe at that meeting..What I heard someone say was this is no longer about Mona Vie its about leadership books….

  21. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 11:22 am

    @Speak Your Truth..Your right them clapping and applauding to a TV screen is funny now..but it wasnt for me at the time..I was scared sh*tless and thats the truth..I was in a room full of basically strangers..Everything in me was telling me to run..run fast…This site has helped me to understand things a little better..Thank You

  22. December 30, 2011 11:35 am

    @Spooked – If they didn’t mention anything about MonaVie, why would they try to get you to join it? Did you call them on that?

  23. humiliated permalink
    December 30, 2011 11:38 am

    Spooked, how long have they been “working on you” and what convinced you to finally go to a meeting?

    I doubt that you will be able to help your friends at this stage as they are fully brainwashed, but at least you have planted the seed. Good for you.

  24. brent hansen permalink
    December 30, 2011 12:26 pm

    Speak, I should have been more clear, I was referring to Spooked’s friends who would be better off cutting a check, cutting their loses, and walking away.

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 30, 2011 1:17 pm

    Spooked~

    I totally understand the ‘spookiness’ and how real it was for you. I would have felt the same way, had I been in your shoes. They did not have those when we were in, it was all face to face..(a lot) of traveling, in others houses etc.., so that is why I find it not only histerical, cheezy and more extremely cultish (the true colors). They now would consider their cheezy meetings keeping up with the techy times.. but it only makes it more obviously cultish and scary for others and it is backfiring…that makes it even more of a knee slapper for someone coming from my perspective…lol

    Thanks for your perspective, we value it more than you know on here. Alot of us on here have a different perspective because we had been in for years and then had to find out the hard way and to get out; with a lot of betrayal and baggage to work through. We had to work through reversing the congnitive dissonance/ mind control garbage.

    We spent years of invested time, money, and effort and for some of us to have it down right stolen.. Unfortunately, some of us have had multiply thousands of people on our teams and have had to deal with much more than the loss of some invested money.

    That is what I love about this site, and appreciate all the commentors, it brings something to all levels of people who are ‘questioning’…’doubting’,,,which I believe is the first and most important step to opening up to the real truth and being able to start ‘deprogramming’ for many.

    It is very important to have more people like you share your perspective; for others in your shoes who felt the same way you do and to confirm that something just isn’t right.

    Brent~

    Both senerios fit..hahaha.

  26. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 1:46 pm

    They have been trying since May before Life came out…one of them is a relative..I didnt ask a whole lot of questions cause I wasnt interested..I was in a house full of brainwashed people …all i wanted to do was get out!!

  27. Spooked permalink
    December 30, 2011 2:14 pm

    Speak Your Truth.. I wish I could say more but I’m afraid they might know who I am if they come to this website and I have alot to loose family wise..It was the cultish behavior that scared me … I feel for all the people who have been scammed and lost so much… Good luck to you all..

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    December 30, 2011 5:50 pm

    Spooked~

    I understand your fears because of having a lot to loose but stick around and you will find that disapates when you speak out and start to understand this game better. We have all been there to some degree. You have the support from others like those on this site and eventually the truth will set you free.

    Eventually we all realize that ourselves and our families have alot more to loose for your family the longer they are deceived. It is hard when you have family involved but you will figure out how to help your family as time goes, then you will find yourself caring less about speaking out.

    The freedom of mind website and Steve Hassan’s books, could be of help to you in understanding some of how people get wrapped up and trapped and give you some good understanding on what to do to help your family.There is a lot less to fear than you feel right now.

    Best antidote… become more aware of how they operate and Educate yourself; it will give you alot more confidence and less fear. So many things on here that will help you, like the anyalsis of the comp plan, Policy & Procedures, (abundantly obvious and proves YOU or anyone else doesn’t own their own business or have a B-type, passive, residiual income, it does not exist) the Life Primer and much more will arm you. Good luck..we wish you all the best and hope you continue to come on the site.

    Remember there are a lot of people on your side, and you probably have figured out we are here to help as many as we can especially those who that want the help.

    Good luck. 🙂

  29. humiliated permalink
    December 31, 2011 7:23 am

    Spooked, I hear you loud and clear, I felt the same way as you did when I first came on this site, certain that one little fact would “out” me.

    Don’t do anything you are not comfortable with in terms of posting but I urge you continue to educate yourself on what your relatives are involved in because it will likely get worse before it gets better, that is how cults operate. Read about cults, read about “commercial cults”, read about TEAM specifically, Knowledge is power.

    You saw the red flags and listened to your instincts but your relatives weren’t as lucky. The more you know about how the “process” works will help you to recognize their behavior patterns and know that it is just part of the brainwashing techniques they have fallen victim to, and not who they have become. It is truly like they are Stepford People. This will help you protect yourself from any angry emotions you may feel about how they are behaving, yet preserve the relationship with them because they WILL need you when they “come to”.

    Best of luck to you Spooked!! I hope that we hear back from you that your relatives got out!!!

  30. tommy2tone permalink
    January 8, 2012 5:54 pm

    Hello

    Just got into LIFE / Team. I’ve only put in $135.00. I went to a my first web cast on Friday. I agree the clapping and cheering a screen was strange, very strange. They say selling a pack of CD’s and a book a month is what we need to do. At this point I am very sceptical. Now their telling me we need to attend a seminar in Columbus, OH at $125.00 per person, don’t think so!! This past Friday was $10 per person. If there streaming it, it should be free.

  31. January 9, 2012 10:55 am

    @tommy2tone – why don’t you ask them why the streaming isn’t free? Was the webcast being held at a person’s house or at a hotel/conference center? How many people were in attendance? When is the Columbus, OH, event? As you can see, there are many costs associated with building this LIFE business. Read the post MLM Punisher on the Cost of Living Intentionally For Excellence for more details.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 9, 2012 12:49 pm

    tommy2tone~

    The reason they ‘charge’ you is because that is where the MONEY comes from to provide to the Top PC ..they call this the ‘profit-sharing’…and is where they get their ‘lifestyle’ they flaunt and entice you with…the money you and thousands of others that is! So that they can get you to ‘believe’ ..you too can have what they have and will get others to ‘pay’ and make more money! It is simply money circulating to the Top from the Bottom.

    They are charging $125 for a major again, which everytime it seems the Top needs a raise; probably because people are quitting.. they raise it from $90 to $125 and have seen this many, many times throughout the history of our business.

    So the last couple of days I have been going through our ‘numbers’ and our old pay stubs. I have been finding some very interesting data to say the least and out of curiosity, I checked to see what the ‘difference’ in profit would between a $90 and $125 dollar ticket. Low and behold; based on our numbers for a few ‘majors’ it would have increased the Profit-Sharing by $30,000 just with our numbers!!…Yes siree…thirty thousand dollars MORE MONEY for the profiteers at the TOP! It becomes pretty evident why they ‘charge’ and it also explains how they can flaunt and coerce with their lifestyles..doesn’t it?

    Now that couldn’t be ‘rocket science’ hahaha… I understand, but sure does explain why they ‘charge’ and would ‘raise’ the cost of tickets. The local seminars also used to be $25 per ticket and it appears they are now $30.. which again we have seen numerous times!

    They charge for Everything like your $135, just to start, but that is the beginning and don’t tell you what it will really cost to build it but is the start of the ‘milking process’…and if you read the Analsis of the comp plan and the Policy and Procedures you will realize the odds are less than 1% to EVER get to the PC income! I encourage you to read as much of this site as you can and then you will have saved yourself a whole lot of money. We didn’t because we didn’t have a site like this. It will save you a ton of money to read this site in the long run…not to mention the most important asset the TIME, something we lost away from our children,families and some true friends and can never get it back with tremendous regrets; all after they stole our teams and profit-sharing.

    I am sincerely glad they haven’t ‘got you’, you can still critically think and seem wise and are already seeing it begin the milking process.

    Wecome to the site and for that Cheers! 🙂

  33. Former Round Table permalink
    January 9, 2012 1:54 pm

    I think we should emphasize that the chances of ever making PC income are WAY less than 1%. How many people do you think have been run through the Team since it was “founded” back in 1999? And of all those thousands and thousands and thousands (I would guess well over 200,000) only SEVEN have ever achieved PC. And we could argue about how many of those actually got to PC without welfare gifts of other peoples’ teams. What is the percentage on that?

  34. Former Round Table permalink
    January 9, 2012 1:56 pm

    BTW, I heard a rumor that more teams are being “shifted” so that Mark Paul can go PC. They have to do something to keep up belief, don’t they? (The ends always justify the means, right Owwin?)

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 9, 2012 2:08 pm

    Thanks for the reminder Former RT so, so true!!!! And out of those 7… I am not sure any of them went PC or Diamond legitmately. I heard of a few of the current PC bought teams in Amway/ Quixtar to go diamond and received some welfare in the system side, also. So, until the whole truth comes out, with a full investigating if that is possible to get this truth. I would not be surprised if there is NOT 1 that is legit!!!!

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 9, 2012 2:12 pm

    oops~ but the fact remains there are only 7…. out of hundreds of thousands of people…and we know the Hawkins received welfare….this should wake Everyone up and make them smell the coffee…it is all gamed, fake, to trick these poor vulnerable souls… and sad too sad they can’t get things legitimately!

  37. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    January 9, 2012 2:31 pm

    Whatever happened to Chris Mattis? Didn’t Orrin blog about him going PC before the last major (~3 months ago) and since that time has never once referred to him as a PC? Sounds like another instance of team shifting or ticket loading to me.

    Just my opinion, but this is a little fishy if you ask me.

  38. webelieved permalink
    January 9, 2012 2:38 pm

    Does anyone find it fishy that Mark Paul left pastor Dickies church recently and he may now be getting teams for PC? I wouldn’t find that a coincidence at all……….can’t wait to see what happens.

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 9, 2012 4:35 pm

    Webelieved~

    I am pretty sure it all smells and seems fishy.. so therefore; it probably is fish…haha. I agree no coincidence…perhaps this would be another loyality..royalty or handout.. seems those are the ones who get the freebies!

    UTBAI~ Good Point! Another fakerster perhaps! 🙂 They can’t achieve results legitimately so they have to Fake everything and the saddest of all is some will fall for it because they will never post any real numbers or results and won’t tell the Truth but sure as sheet when it comes out in a newspaper then they try to make it sound a whole lot different!! Twisters and Spinners…just like anonymous anti-Amthrax blogger does.

  40. January 9, 2012 4:39 pm

    @Used to be “all-in”:

    On November 19, 2011, Dan Hawkins wrote on one of his blogs:

    The LIFE TEAM Leadership Conference wrapped up on Sunday. With over 18 new RT’s, Triples, and Quads, along with a new PC – Chris and Danae Mattis, the TEAM has experienced its best three months in its history.

    Like you, I don’t recall seeing any further mention that Mattis is a PC member, but with so many TEAM LIFE blogs to follow, I may have missed it.

    Also he wasn’t shown in the photo of LIFE founders on Orrin’s blog, even though at least one TEAM LIFE member called Mattis a LIFE Founder (post dated November 14, 2011).

  41. Peachy permalink
    January 9, 2012 4:57 pm

    I heard recently that the Paul’s are losing their mansion they bought in 2007 on Lake Angelus in Michigan.

  42. webelieved permalink
    January 9, 2012 5:06 pm

    Former Round Table- How do they justify this to the leaders….I would suppose it goes something like….”so and so doesn’t have a big enough dream and left so you can mentor Bob and we will reward you with his system and tickets? Is that it?
    I just cannot believe this doesn’t frustrate others?I would guess it would throw off others spreads in their business if they were upline, and in effect make them lose their earned income? I wonder if that fact alone would make it illegal in a court of law?

  43. webelieved permalink
    January 9, 2012 5:17 pm

    As I understand it, if one was a profit sharer and had 100/50/25 they would be paid better than a person at 250/50/25. Is this right?
    So if someone was given a freebie below a leader and let’s say they were originally at 100/50/25 and it became 250/50/25, wouldn’t that mess up their earned profit sharing income, and lower it because it would make it more out of balance? If this is true, I would think this would be something those of you with a downline who got freebies could take to court, no?

  44. Finally permalink
    January 9, 2012 6:19 pm

    Now more than ever they need to create belief…problem is they are also creating pins with welfare for the chosen few………I know they know what they are doing but like some of you have said….”the ends justifies the means”. Christians…..My eye, they lie about how the team is growing, they hand out welfare in the form of crediting systems and tickets to somebody to boost their numbers so they can parade them on stage. Problem is there is hard proof Hawkins was given parts of Billy Florences team, that is indisputable yet they call him a PC, no doubt they will do it with whomever they need to to create a false sense of growth. Nice Orrin, you not only lowered the bar you removed it………….Hey anonymous anti team blogger……..answer that one…….oh I ma sure you will spin it but you can’t. It is what it is ….Owwin Woodward team welfare…..so far from who they say they are it is comical………as John Mellencamp cougar sings……..When the walls come crumbling down…..How do they sleep at night???? They know they cheat and call themselves leaders?? They are Guru’s?? With all their accumulated MLM experience they have to fudge recognition and then justify to themselves and then lie on stage about it over and over and over again. Of course how would any of us know any of this? Well.lemme tell you…….NO CROSS LINING rule here. I have friends still in Team that keep me informed. Others have friends that let them know how numbers are going so when the anonymous blogger tries to debunk us he should ask himself what he heard at his last PC meeting and then get on his knees and let God know what he knows and ask god himself if what they are doing is Righteous………they already know the answer so of course they will not ask. We know too. All of their credibility went down the drain when they gave Hawkins his bridge card in the form of welfare systems. Oh, I do know they have their justifications for doing such things but their justifications go against EVERYTHING they have preached for years……….I wonder how the other guy’s like Birtles, Martin and some of the others are gonna take these guy’s going PC before them. Especially when they know it was a gift too.

    One more point on recognition. My friends in the Liberators told me that when the Matins went T 100 in 2003 at least 25 tickets in their second leg of their team went directly in the trash…yep they ticket loaded and no one had ever bought those tickets……more fudging for recognition, but hey it’s business right? Or did they not read Maxwell’s book “There is no such thing as business ethics”. Funny how you never hear that book promoted anymore…..

  45. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 9, 2012 6:36 pm

    Webelieved, the split on system counts doesn’t matter anymore with the stair-step breakaway compensation plan. Think Amway, its all volume. As long as you have a certain amount outside your main team, you are gonna get paid.

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