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MonaVie 2.0: Orrin Woodward’s Day Off

January 15, 2012

Orrin Woodward's Day Off

The big reveal of MonaVie 2.0 happened this weekend in Dallas, Texas. Some new juice concoctions and vitamin products were revealed, along with the launch of the new MVP training program for distributors. Those in MonaVie may think that it’s a brand-new day for their businesses, but to me, they are just re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic… or the Coasta Concordia.

At one point near the end of the conference, all of the Black Diamonds came out onto the MonaVie 2.0 stage to give one tip for building a big business. Roll call time!

Brig and Lia Hart? Present.

Steve and Gina Merritt? Present.

Orrin and Laurie Woodward? Woodward? Woodward? Woodward?

Chris and Terri Brady? Brady? Brady? Brady?

Tim and Amy Marks? Marks? Marks? Marks?

Here’s a photo of all the Black Diamonds on stage at MonaVie 2.0:

Why weren’t Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and Tim Marks present at the MonaVie 2.0 convention in Dallas, Texas?

How did they spend their weekend playing hooky from MonaVie 2.0?

Orrin Woodward: According to his Twitter account, he’s attending his son’s soccer game today.

Chris Brady: He wrote in his Twitter page on Friday that he just got back home to Raleigh, North Carolina.

A reader pointed out this video from a MonaVie conference in 2010:

Clearly a year ago, Chris and Terri Brady thought MonaVie was worth it. So what happened?

Tim Marks: Judging from his recent tweets, he was probably at home watching Tim Tebow and the Broncos get completely outclassed and destroyed by Tom Brady and the Patriots.

What was it that George Guzzardo always says about Major Functions? That you should never miss one, even if finances are tight? He’s at it again while promoting the Winter Conventions at the end of January:

Why is it important to encourage someone to attend this up and coming event? Those of us who have experience with building large communities know how attending one of these events has affected a person’s life. The word most appropriate to describe what happens when someone attends these events is “transform”. Making a difference is another way of describing why we place importance on attending the convention. Just think of the possible difference to a persons finances, marriage, relationships, family, or freedoms it will make by going to an event like this.

The single most concentrated way of getting the information necessary to make a difference in your life is attend the winter convention. As you can tell I am already excited about what I feel will be the single most impactful event for us to attend in the year 2012.

I figure this doesn’t apply to MonaVie corporate events. I guess the business that TEAM has been aligned with for the past three years isn’t important anymore to Orrin Woodward and TEAM. If a company gave you $3,000,000 to come join, wouldn’t you want to show a little gratitude by attending its big re-launch event???

If I were Dallin Larsen — and I’m glad that I’m not — I would think twice about attending a TEAM convention ever again. Now, I’ve heard rumors that Dallin is supposed to be in attendance at the Winter Conference (which just happens to be at the same time as the MonaVie 2.0 launch event in Vancouver, Canada), but I wouldn’t be surprised if he played hooky himself. Turnabout is fair game, they say.

Update February 13, 2012: Reports suggest that Dallin Larsen was indeed present in Ohio. He was also racked up the frequent flier miles (or cashed in his MonaVie Jet Credits) by being on-stage in Vancouver the same weekend.

In a year’s time, the number of people on TEAM who are signed up for MonaVie auto-ship will be lower than it is today. It’s probably lower than it was in November, 2011, when LIFE launched. Anyone who can see these signs can conclude that Orrin Woodward and TEAM are abandoning the MonaVie ship as fast as possible. In my opinion, Dallin Larsen would do everyone a great service by kicking out Orrin Woodward and TEAM in 2012, much like Amway did in 2007.

74 Comments leave one →
  1. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 1:16 pm

    Amthrax, Another great article! I agree…Hahaha!

    Why didn’t Orrin and his yes men… show up for the Big re-launch? Dallin shows up to almost all, if not all, of their majors to endorse the LIEf system and how does this set with all the other Black Diamonds whom are all competitors of Orrin?

    Hmm…Perhaps Orrin doesn’t like their new/old COMPETITORS any more! He obviously doesn’t see the value in Dallin’s buisness, maybe because it isn’t his!

    Guzzardo’s; “The word most appropriate to describe what happens when someone attends these events is “transform”.”

    Yes, we already know, you will be tricked and ‘transformed’ into a follower, who deceives, lies and hands all your positive cash flow will be ‘transformed’ to some serious negative debt, possibly bankrupt you, and there is a possiblity you could become a defaulter if you are taking George’s financial advice, and your positive cash flow will be ‘transformed’ into the PC bank accounts and lifestyles.

    You will also be ‘transformed’ into worshipping idols and pretending you are living your priorities, when in reality you will be living theirs!

    Wow, where do I buy this ticket to get ‘transformed’?…lol

  2. No Team For Me permalink
    January 15, 2012 1:47 pm

    Wow! Very hypocritical. Orrin & Team stand on stand night after night telling everyone how important the functions area and expect anyone who is serious about business to attend every event.

    Yet, after all Dallin & MonaVie have done for Team – that is how Orrin & Crew repay them? How much money, time & effort did MonaVie spend to put that Dallas function together. You would think the least Orrin could do is show up. (Although to be honest, they should have promoted it to the hilt.) How can they expect their downline to promote functions when they are not doing the same?

    If I were the other Black Diamonds in MV, I’d be calling MV daily to let them know they want Team kicked out. It’s not fair to all the other leaders who just agreed to give up their individual systems and support the one united MV training program.

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 2:21 pm

    No Team for Me~

    “It’s not fair to all the other leaders who just agreed to give up their individual systems and support the one united MV training program.”

    Great point! Orrin was in support of that very same MV training program to ‘Unify’ everyone…the hypocrisy is undeniable.

  4. January 15, 2012 3:02 pm

    This is what Orrin has to say back in July 11, 2011, regarding the MonaVie MVP Program (cached page, since the original article is no longer available):

    “When Laurie and I joined MonaVie along with our good friends, Chris and Terri Brady and Tim and Amy Marks, we did so because we trusted Dallin Larsen and his leadership. And, he has never let us down. When he shared with us his vision for MVP and unifying this company around a MonaVie system internationally, we saw the wisdom in his decision and we fully support it. Know that the Woodwards, the Bradys, and the Markses are looking forward to adding any value we can in the creation of MVP. And, we are so looking forward to sharing the stages of the world with the Harts, the Merritts, the Roushes and the other top leaders of MonaVie from around the world as we teach, train, and support with the MVP system. It’s a new day, and together we can change the world for the better, one person at a time thanks to our collective visions.”

    —Orrin and Laurie Woodward, Presidential Black Diamond Executives

    Did Orrin and company decide that they couldn’t add any value in the creation of MVP?

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 4:48 pm


    Thanks! That is the statements and what I was referring to.

    Will they be ‘sharing the stages of the world and still competing with Harts, Merrits, and Rouches, and support Dallin’s vision’, with the MVP? They have all been competitors all along but Now they have become direct MLM system competitors with the company? Was Dallin aware of the Lief separate MLM business or given the ‘TOP spot’ (well right under Orrin of course) in Lief and all along knew he would have the…win/win?

    It just doesn’t make any sense, Dallin is allowing Orrin to basically take money right out from under him; such as having his own MLM/system, and no one in Team Lief is promoting the juice or MV and those who were on autoship; getting off in droves. Certainly Dallin or at least someone in the billion dollar company must recognize and being paying attention to their bottom line; autoships have dropped drastically, in the Lief LOS’s.. NO? A billion dollar company would not be paying attention to the bottom line numbers?

    This ought to make for some interesting stage promotions of tools, since one could conclude they would be competing for the same dollars over 2 different systems; the MVP vs. Lief MLM, system tool sales.

    Unless, Orrin backed out on his word and doesn’t ‘fully support Dallin’s decision’ and the news just hasn’t caught up yet, lol… or perhaps there is another back door deal no one knows about?

    Has Orrin told those ‘investors’..I mean followers what is happening with their business? He doesn’t have a very good track record of being honest to people or transparent, so it makes me wonder. I do have to say it doesn’t make any sense.

    Anyone have any answers or can make more sense out of this? 🙂

  6. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 15, 2012 5:09 pm

    It all seems pretty basic and elementary to me. I believe the arrangement between Dallin and Orrin was business (bad business) nothing more. Veneer leaders in MLM do not get 3 million dollars without a contract. The contract has been fulfilled, and Team is free to leave.

    Everyone knows MV is drying up, so I would assume its getting pretty difficult to push Team/Monavie tools as well. No tools = no money = more bankruptcies = back to work at the job. There is no money in Monavie, so if tool sales are down in Team, no one earns. If Team stayed with Monavie for just one year more, the Team would have been finished for good. R3 sold to Monavie, BDU is disbanded, I heard Mark Ewell and his system are bankrupt, Legacy is a joke, really not much left anymore.

    With the launch of MVP this was the perfect time for the exodus to occur. They could both come to a mutual agreement that would let Orrin go to his happy place where he could change the world as he peddles more garbage, and Dallin and MV could save face. Think of how it would look when over 1/2 of your million dollar earners have already left in the last six months, and now Orrin and company as well.

  7. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 5:55 pm

    Thanks Truthseeker~

    That makes some sense and we all know they are concerned ‘how things would look’..more than just tell the truth and be totally transparent with where the company is going. But they would rather leave that up to those poor followers imaginations,(what’s left of it, anyway) as a matter of fact, ‘how things look’ (creating illusions), would rank right up there with Oxygen to them, at least from our experience!

  8. Finally permalink
    January 15, 2012 6:01 pm

    Ken Porter sponsored Orrin, I wonder what his volume is doing????

    Team has a life span of about 12 to 18 months till he hits bottom, there is no place for him to go. He has to change every 2 to 3 years, that is MLM, he went from Amway to Q to MV to Lief. Now his system is the product, it actually always has been, but now he admits it. It is a hard sell. As much as they bashed Amway they had products people liked and when we built Amway it was way easier than MV. Now that they have abandoned the product side where do they go? Dallin either got lied to or he understood the deal from the get go. Either way he got burned or aided in the burning of all the team members that bought into MV. Orrin knew from day 1 in MV that it was temporary. He called it a “temporary landing pad”. He was desperate to get a product during the q lawsuit or lose it all. He got paid to go to MV. Now……he is out of hands to play, either he makes it or it goes away. Thanks to this site we are helping people see the truth about what Orrin, tim, chris, george and the rest of the pc are about….lies and deception for their own personal gain……….They have been found out and exposed…….however this is just the beginning of the lesson………they will have years of regret and pain,…in my opinion.

    I am thankful to Amthrax for providing a factual site, I am thankful for the story of the Morgans and others on here to wake people up to what the team is all about behind the scenes, it is undeniable and there is more to come………..much more.

    Hey where is the anonymous team blogger??? Anyone know??

  9. Vogel permalink
    January 15, 2012 6:18 pm

    Alternate hypothesis — maybe Dallin Larceny asked Woodturd and friends to stay home. Their attendance might be viewed as a liability, given all the well deserved bad press they’ve been getting lately. Just a thought.

  10. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 15, 2012 6:25 pm

    Ken Porter is a prolific networker. He will not even talk to anyone making less than $20,000 per month in their current network.

    Ken Porter was courting Randy Haugen, and Randy connected Ken and Orrin. Ken brought in lots of heavy hitters who had contract deals. Robert Dean was another who had a contract, fulfilled it, then left.

    Drooly actually hammered Dean for leaving Visalus after taking a contract, only to later find out that Dean had fulfilled his end of the bargain and was free to go wherever he choose.

    Big contract networkers never have to “build” a binary, they are simply positioned within an existing leg, with millions in volume below the position. This is called a “break insert”, and it creates a scenario where only 1 team needs to be positioned on the weak leg to skyrocket that person to huge profits.

    Some of these guys have 20 or more “spots” at the top of their team within the binary that they simply have reserved for bringing on new veneer leaders. No one, and I mean no one builds two legs, unless of course you are a new person.

  11. Hershall permalink
    January 15, 2012 7:48 pm

    Yeah. the Mona Vie City Event I attended in August only had one Team member there. Where the Team Seminar in the same city had about 350 people every month, there were about 300 MV people in total. I was shocked. But it colored in some of the picture that had been drawn by the Team opens since L.I.F.E. was announced.
    Three Black Diamonds and a handful of other Diamond ranks not available for the launch of the ‘New’ MV…. Totally disgusting! They swore that MV was the exclusive provider of the Fitness F in their 8Fs. I guess they don’t care about that F any more. That translates deeper into not caring about the other 7 Fs either. The only one is the F that relates to the Finances of the Team leadership. Even the Faith F that they clobber everyone with has been shown to be totally hollow for them.
    No display of integrity this weekend. No Following F. No Freedom F.
    Half of the Fs missing in action – there will be fewer and fewer Friend Fs.
    Bad business! I’m so sorry for the people that hang on.

  12. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 8:44 pm


    “Half of the Fs missing in action – there will be fewer and fewer Friend Fs.” hahahaha!!

    Was there a major this weekend?

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 8:48 pm


    That is hysterical, what would we do without your humor? 🙂

    Great insight and how disturbing how they fool the masses…The followers should be throwing up and extremely angry at how they are being fooled and expected to do all the work for these sharks to be able to take it away from them at any given time.. thanks for the post!

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 15, 2012 8:50 pm

    Finally~ You kill me…I agree I am grateful for this site too!

  15. Finally permalink
    January 16, 2012 3:50 am

    Good point Vogel and I did not know that about the positions, Truthseeker. They made a dvd opt Ken Porter doing the binary when team first joined MV. There were all kind of stories floating around as to who contacted whom about MV. I did hear it was Randy Haugen but I also heard that Tim and Chris were the one’s. They couldn’t even give Randy the credit for that……….

    Time will tell where they go from here…………

    Amen Speak, what they are doing to the masses is sickening, they are like the lambs being lead to slaughter………..The part that is truly disturbing is the way they criticize and ridicule the rest of the world for the exact thing that they are doing…….

  16. No Team For Me permalink
    January 16, 2012 5:31 am

    Finally – It was Randy Haugen that found and met with Ken Porter before Orrin. Ken even talked about it with the Round Tables which came out on a CD about how he met with Randy Haugen at his house and then later was introduced to Orrin.

    Technically, if Orrin was rally a man of integrity, everyone should have been under Randy Haugen. And if they were really people of integrity, Orrin should have also been under Billy & Peggy Florence after all Billy did for him.

  17. No Team For Me permalink
    January 16, 2012 6:48 am

    Webelieved – There’s a lot that went on behind the scenes, but to summarize…..When Orrin was having all his problems with A/Q because of his refusal to follow A/Q’s policies & proceedures, it was Billy Florence who tried to work with Orrin to give him ideas on how to balance Orrin’s goals and still be in compliance with A/Q’s policies. Billy was the former President of the IBOA and extremely respected by all lines of sponsorship and the corporation as a person of true integrity.

    When A/Q terminated Orrin, it was Billy who stuck his head on the line and tried to get A/Q to reconsider. I think Billy was truly fooled by Orrin the way the rest of us were. I think Billy truly thought Orrin had good ideals. If Billy had any idea that Orrin would try these games all over again, I’ve convinced Billy would not have left A/Q and definitely would not have followed Orrin.

    I do know that Billy is totally disgusted by the actions of Orrin & Crew and no longer wants anything to do with Orrin. After leaving Team, Billy & Peggy have been providing training to their group at no cost and refused to make tool money.

    But based on all Billy did for Orrin and that Orrin used the clout of Randy & Billy to do what he did, Randy & Billy should have both been placed above Orrin in the MV line of sponsorship.

  18. Used to be "all-in" permalink
    January 16, 2012 7:27 am

    Wow, that really is sick. Thanks for the info NTFM! I was told by my upline PC (or through the grapevine which originated from him, I can’t remember now) that Billy had stepped aside because of all the pain and anguish he went through after “Quixtar turned its back on him”…after all, he did name his kids Rich and Jay I believe. Later I was told he sold out on Orrin and took a buy-out from the lawsuits…the implication being he didn’t have as much character as we thought he did. That is truly sick. Of course it is never the Team’s fault. To think that he is now providing training to him teams for free. Wow. Orrin really does need to take a page from his book…actually he should just take the whole book for crying out loud.

    I wonder what Orrin and George told some Billy’s downline in order to get some of them to stay with Team and later place them on Hawkin’s team?

  19. January 16, 2012 9:06 am

    Everyone – What would your upline leaders or Policy Council members say (or do) if you missed a major conference, weekly seminar, or monthly function? We know they recommend never missing a function, but were there any reasons they would accept?

    Do they still make the claim that MonaVie will be the official provider of fitness products for LIFE? That was in their early brochures for LIFE, but in the more recent ones, I did not see any mention of the company.

  20. January 16, 2012 9:17 am

    While the information on Billy Florence and Orrin Woodward is interesting, I’d like to keep the conversation on the TEAM leadership playing hooky (or were asked to stay away) from the MonaVie 2.0 conference.

    How much longer will they appear on the list of Black Diamonds in MonaVie? Will there be any public mention by either of these two companies if there is an exodus? If not, there will be a lot more hits to this site from people looking to find out why Orrin Woodward and TEAM are not apart of MonaVie anymore.

    What I find sad in all of this is the deception foisted on the TEAM faithful for the past three years. MonaVie was supposed to bring wealth and time to everyone… and all TEAM/Orrin has succeeded in doing is wasting everyone’s money and time. The fact that TEAM members can’t see this is unfortunate. They’ll happily follow Orrin into whatever business idea he has next: Amway, Quixtar, MonaVie, LIFE, ???

  21. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 16, 2012 11:06 am


    We only missed 1 bigger meeting in over a decade and it was because of a Death. Leaders just knew better not to miss because you would be punished somehow by your scumbag PC, and the system is based on punishment and awards, as in many contolled cult enviroments.

    I know of a bigger leader who missed many meetings, the reason was of a divorce and he wasn’t suppose to leave his children with a sitter when it was his turn to have the children. That apparently became acceptable for him, they continued to let him show up at the last minute and Speak (our of line), and continued to speak at opens. That would be RARE, he must have done a lot of whinning because they would have at least took them off the speaking circut. They treat it on individuals basis and not openly but think a lot less of those leaders and then withhold edification (punishment), speaking..etc.. because there are “NO Excuses” or valid reasons to miss anything, in the minds of the PC. You are on their crap list. The reason they withhold all speaking, they say you are a bad example, and it is way you can make waaayyy more money for a few hours of work. This is their greatest punishment and they also know if you are a speaker it is their way of stripping your credibility in your group from you. Machevillian?

    They hammer the YOU are the example and example it is the ONLY thing.

    The rhetoric and indoctrinating message from stage was; “100% of the people will do what you do wrong, and only 50% of the people will do what you do right.”

  22. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    January 16, 2012 11:10 am

    The famous line was this Amthrax…. “The only excuse there is for missing a major is a funeral. Your own.” No I’m not kidding. Am I right guys? Did you not hear this as well?

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 16, 2012 11:15 am

    I Quit~

    Yep…it was the common one, that they thought was humorous…but they meant it.

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 16, 2012 12:31 pm

    Another leader that spoke at seminars, opens, built large teams, and even started opens etc, the PC, never liked had always abused and created division of leaders that he was best at …the tyrannt decided they weren’t allowed to speak anymore for whatever bogus reason (power/ego trip) after years of them being qualified and acceptable..then the tyrannts (PC and Orrin) decided these speakers (RT) had to hit RUBY and allowed their teams that were ridiculously smaller and allowed them to speak.. they were relentless and controlled everything, until the PC got his way. These guys are pathetic examples of a fairness and ‘leadership’…what a joke.

    It was at one a time it was fairly predicatable and based on numbers and if they thought you were a good enough ‘movin-on ‘leader/builder’ and ‘worthy’..they would decide whether you fit that bill of being in front of the groups, the tyrannts controlled it, they act like the mafia. it became whatever, and whoever worships us the most, does whatever we tell them to to prove their loyality… Fair?..Hardly….they don’t want that means!!

    Bottom line, they control everything…how much you make (if any), how long you get paid, and how much influence they allow you in your groups or infront of the entire group! They will resort to ‘whatever it takes’ tactics…If you missed meetings or gave excuses, weren’t a builder by their standards… then be prepared to be stripped of your influence, credibility and income.

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 16, 2012 8:42 pm


    There are many unpredictables in the team because it is now based on ‘favoritism and brown nosing’.. and is the farthest thing from a performance based buisness.

    I think in the beginning they had people forcing it to be based on numbers at least when they had someone outside the corrupted one’s, who were able to see the numbers, and police them. Someone who actually had integrity and were able to hold them accountable and stop them from playing favorites. But then they handed it all over to the scumbag PC, then all of a sudden there was no way to check it anymore. That is when it became a favorites and obvious, it was based on the PC’s total discretion, favortism and ego and power trips.

    We had personally witnessed many times the corrupt PC trying to pull a fast one and slip in his favorites, to make someone else ‘look like’ they were growing more than someone else. The speakers/leaders knew the line-up used to be based on numbers. I know the PC was called out and made to change things based on the real numbers, many times. This also became glaringly obvious when they let the corrupt PC take completely over and ‘picked’ the speaking and stage hosting. This was obvious when your downline was ‘picked’ and started showing up as stage hosting and speaker hosting. Did they Not remember you could see your downlines numbers were smaller?…duh.

  26. humiliated permalink
    January 17, 2012 6:04 am

    I agree that it is very odd, Monavie being part of the ‘fitness” element in the early days of Lief but now all but forgotten.

    If I had to lay bets, Monavie is wants to keep all of the “spoils” of any tool money which appears to be part of their “new” company and it would be a conflict of interest (who gets the blood money is more like it) to have both companies selling the tools. This probably dovetailed nicely with the end of any contract Orrin may have had with Monavie.

    If Monavie wanted Orrin at that meeting, you can bet your ass he would have dragged his slimy, thieving, sociopathic self to it. Think of all of the potential money he would have made off of that captive audience?

    Monavie wasn’t “loyal” to Orrin and vice versa. Monavie “bought” Orrin for a period of time and his whore services were no longer beneficial (for several reasons…this website may be one of them!) so they cut him loose. Sorry to be so blunt but there is no honor among these thieves and I can’t wait until both companies implode.

  27. January 17, 2012 10:47 am

    @webelieved – how has Hawkins been soliciting distributors from Florence’s group? Email, voice mail, face-to-face conversations? Is there any hard proof of this?

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 11:55 am

    Imagine that…no suprise. What is the problem, they cannot find their own ‘prospects’? Clearly the parasitic markets have been raiding downlines from others since they were convinced to come into the team through coercion and their slimy corrupt tactics.

    Oh yes, I bet there would be proof, just not anything most would be able to get their hands on. 🙂

  29. No Team For Me permalink
    January 17, 2012 12:40 pm

    Webelieved – I’ve heard the same comment from several people re: “MV will be like pocket change compared to the money you could make in LIFE.”

    And yes, the raiding is pretty prevalent.

  30. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 1:12 pm

    Not only are they Parasitic Marketers for their own MLM, but they do the same in the Churches.

    When will Pastors like Tom Ascol and their other new found Pastors catch onto what they are doing? I certainly hope that if people are coming to them, asking for help and warning them about Team Lief; that they will do the right thing and not choose to ignore the warning signs.

    Orrin and the PC with their fake guru status, vanity awards; their very own made and gamed press and mostly likely larger tithing checks, seem to convince and blind others that they are on the straight and narrow, at least long enough to do some serious damage.

    These Pastors have no idea, what has entered their churches and the damage this will do to them. I certainly hope and pray they find out and listen to anyone that comes to them asking for help, because of their financial problems and many more issues, that is inevitable with Team Lief; long before it is too late.

    I am sure all the liefers who attend, have promoted to many to go to their Churches, just like they did when they where at Pastor Dickies church. They contacted and recruited and brought other liefers in. It becomes a very subtle breeding ground for recruitment and the unsustainable ‘business opportunity’, that we all know eventually leaves a wake of wreckage in every area of people’s lives.

    It truly is sad how many get sucked in, to in the end find out it was all a lie and it will never work for the majority..99%. 😦

  31. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 1:17 pm

    The Bright side there is Amthrax site to help speed the process up; to help with awareness. 🙂

  32. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 17, 2012 2:32 pm

    I don’t want to kick the beehive here but I guess I am not following the whole “stealing people from others downlines” things. People are not commodities, and they are free to go wherever they see fit. In my opinion a solicitation or offer to join a company or team (even if it is a farce) hardly constitutes “stealing”. If people are naive enough to join, then they have themselves to blame.

    Its all a matter of education, if people know the truth about MLM compensation plans, and the mitigating factors that exist in the industry, their decisions will be more educated, and hopefully more wise. You all are educating here, I appreciate that.

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 3:43 pm


    Perhaps calling it ‘stealing’ is not being ‘politically correct’ enough. Then why would these companies have any P & P’s, shoot lets just see everyone’s line of sponsor and lets all give everyone a chance to see where they would freely want to go. Shoot, I am going to go to every Major Event that every MLM company puts on and just contact right there! Boy, I really was ignorant on how to build the buisness. Apparently it is a free for all for certain ones and they expect everyone else to follow ethics and laws?

    But we all know they use deceptive, slimy, greasy techniques to coerce and convince others out of one group into another, just because they are in the MLM industry and they heard they participate and work with others? This is not being free to to go where ever they want to go….Nope they have been coerced and manipulated to join with the ones who are selling them. Now why would anyone build knowing that anyone could contact and coerce others out of your group, with zero consequence.

    But to me it is stealing. This I don’t believe has anything to do with the person being convinced, they don’t know they are being manipulated. Especially how they are doing this, when these guys, call others parasite marketers for others ‘freely leaving’ and taking their groups that they worked with and brought in off of their own contact lists, blood, sweat, and many years of effort; away from their scammy little team lie..f bs program.

    They also teach and claim to the ends of the world about Ethics, Honest, and Christians, the way these guys are operating to bring people from others groups doesn’t fit into any of those principles.They also ‘teach’ but obviously don’t follow it as all their teachings, When someone is working with someone else and they know it, then send them back to the person who is putting their time, effort, money, and contacted them as their customers or business partners.

    I believe everyone here knows how it works and to me it is still stealing. If there is a nicer or more politically word then I can’t think of it right now.

  34. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 3:46 pm

    Webelieved another great point, the LOS, I thought was a sacred and should be honored efforts of those who built it?

  35. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 3:51 pm

    Oh I know may the best manipulator who can smooth talk, use their best techniques to solicate WIN!!! aha!

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 4:02 pm

    If Orrin even “THINKS” without cause or for a second that anyone was freely going with others, taking even their personals or the ones they worked with.. out of the Team, what does he do? He takes their income, slanders them, and then uses some 48 laws of Power techinques mixed with some Mafia techiniques and then says people are free to go!

    In other words, everyone is ‘free to go’ long as it isn’t from the Team Lief.

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 4:16 pm


    LOL…Hotel California..more like Alcatraz. Yep…a paranoid second and covering his arse, just like he did in Amway..How did that work out for them? lol

  38. Finally permalink
    January 17, 2012 4:38 pm

    Speak, great posts on raiding. To touch on your pastor comments. Orrin’s new pastor is clueless to who he actually is right now. Orrin has read and can quote all the Christian author’s and make you believe he is sincere. That is his gift and in the beginning he does sound credible. But, like you said these pastors have no idea what they are in for. The only reason Orrin goes into a church is to gain credibility for his business. He will be elected to the board of deacon’s because he will tithe his way there. That will give him credibility. He will subtly contact and sponsor the pastor and help him build a team and start making some money. Very attractive to a Pastor, they do not become a Pastor for the pay so why not do something to secure his and his families future? That is when the downfall of the church will begin. It will pit parishioners against each other, the one’s that want to be free from MLM’s vs the one’s that join. All the while the church will slowly become a team church and not a place to worship. Oh they will worship but it will not be with their hearts………..Orrin is a parasite to a church and I hope that pastor does eventually get into contact with Pastor Dickie. I am sure he has heard all the slanderous things Orrin has said about Pastor Dickie, Pastor D should have the opportunity to set the record straight. And I am certain he can. Orrin can not hold a candle to Pastor Dickie when it comes to his Christian faith……….

    Grat posts also We, you guys Rock!!

  39. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 17, 2012 4:52 pm

    Hate to disagree with you all on this one, but I believe a model should be good enough to captivate and hold those who are engaged.

    Rearranging an LOS within a certain business, and contacting people who are engaged in MLM are two different things.

    I would hate to think that any MLM owned me or my right to go where I want and do what I want. I am way radical on this one, probably goes right along with my anti-establishment personality, but I am not a big fan of Policies and Procedures either.

    The interesting thing is that MLMs all think they are in competition with each other, is that really true?

    Why would Monavie distributors, or the company feel like they are in competition with XFT fuel treatment, or why would Excel communication feel like they are in competition with Amway? There is only one reason and answer and it is this; they all believe that there is a finite amount of people, and a finite market.

    To believe that everything is locked in position in anyone’s position and expect the company to defend that is really to me scarcity mentality.

    I don’t condone MLMs, but I also don’t condone the “my group” or “my personal” syndrome that many people have in the industry.

    No one owns their downline, if the model is good, and they are effective leaders, they shouldn’t have to be kept in line with stringent P&P, the free market system is still the best system in the world.

    Just my opinion.

  40. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 17, 2012 4:53 pm

    In addition, rearranging an LOS within a certain group or company is garbage, and I am not talking about that at all. That is unacceptable to me, under any circumstances.

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 6:49 pm

    No problem Brent…we don’t have to agree. The reality is it they don’t operate ethically in the industry, they say one thing and do another so it really doesn’t matter who agrees. I could have missed something maybe they tell every brand new prospect, you go ahead and build it; bring thousands in off your list for a decade and those family and friends, relatives you bring in…. well… don’t expect them to stay on your team we will solicate and coerce them into our group as soon as I become the best manipulator and learn the unethical skills to convince them I have a better deal because that is the way it is done.

    I don’t remember them telling me this and boy would it have saved me well over a decade of building or bringing others in. Do they teach this in the plan?.. From our experience they all say no one will do anything to ruin your buisness, because we are so Godly, have integrity blah blah blah. And never had a seminar about you better understand the ‘being free to go’, it wasn’t necessary, it is your team….shoot they can’t even be honest when someone leaves, sshhh don’t talk about it, like they are trying to protect some nasty secret that is unspeakable…let everyone think no one leaves because of ethics and if they ask…just lie and slander them…no worries everyone does..’it is how buisness is done today.’

    Let’s be completely honest.. How many on here would put 1 person in, knowing your efforts and ‘customers’ will be solicated? How many people do you think would get started or bring 1 single person in if they were told that upfront? Sshh…more secrets..They could be soliciated out of your group as a matter of fact, count on it, it is going to be standard practice. But hey thanks for your efforts and your friends and family… hey they ‘wanted to be free to go’ hahahah.

    Thanks Brent for reminding of my ‘WHY’…Never ever trust anyone, you just don’t know who their meeting with behind your back solicitating them..haha…don’t let anyone know who your friends and family are. No wonder why the TOP become paranoid as soon as they hear of a rumor or the loyality meter *in their mind) starts to beep, could just be a question asked that sets it If I decide to jump aboard any MLM scam again… I would ‘build it differently’ for sure as soon as I change my mind and decide to sell my soul that is ..I’ll be sure the next time I want to be recruited and be a part of the slimy unethical scumbags and ‘industry’. I will attend many different major functions…lmao..I know I would be a flippity, floppity, triple dippin ‘master soliciating machine’ in no time!

    Perhaps you could remind orrin; Brent.. he agree’s with you all the way up to the point someone tries to hold him to it or leaves and let him know your taking your ‘free to go’ anytime… friends and family because they like and trust you better…as a matter of fact Chris, Tim, and George want to come along with us!…hahahahah!…If you don’t have his number…I have him on speed dial…Doesn’t everyone who wants to be a (MLM) PC- “Rock Star” have their mentor on ‘speed dial’?

    OH sorry that’s right the song says everyone has a drug dealer on speed dial…well, not that far off..I think I am going to re-write.. Nicklebacks…”ROCK STAR” lyrics to fit the dishonorable wana be a PC- “Rock Star” song…How fitting!

    Perhaps he ought to put that in his pipe and smoke it., but oh that’s right, he has made sure he didn’t mean the ‘free to go’, Surprise! He created the nazi.. P&P and Contract to protect ‘his’ Company and ‘his’ customers.

    I agree with Webelieved what a bunch of freaking hypocrites.

    What is said and what is done are 2 totally different things…we all know that; it is their M.O.

    So re-arranging and coercing others groups; doesn’t is all unethical to me.

  42. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 6:51 pm


    How do you ‘Find a Pastor’s need and fill it?”.. You prey on their deep desire to serve God and reach ‘millions of people’ for Christ. Hmm…

  43. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 17, 2012 7:05 pm

    I believe we are thinking of this from two different standpoints, perhaps I should refer back to the original comment to gain a better understanding.

    I am not talking about someone within a company soliciting other groups to be re-positioned or moved under them, that to me is totally unethical, unacceptable, and should never be tolerated.

    I am referring to the fact that someone from company A has every right to contact someone from company B to offer them a better business. I say “better business” tongue in cheek, because the majority are not even real businesses.

    I have walked away from two different businesses in which I had large groups because I didn’t agree with the ethics of either the distributors, or the CEO. If I ever chose to do something again, would it be unethical for me to contact one of my friends who remained with those companies? What if I wanted one of my former MLM teammates to partner with me in any type of business, is that unethical as well? I think not.

    If you owned a conventional business, and I could help you improve your profitability it wouldn’t be unethical at all for me to introduce you to a new concept that might help your bottom line.

    I know many of you (I have as well) have had teams moved or positioned differently due to the greed of certain veneer leaders, and I empathize with that, but I think we are talking about two different things here. Perhaps I don’t understand.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 17, 2012 7:27 pm

    I agree Brent we are talking about totally different things, What they actually are doing and did. We were talking about deliberately contacting people that those solicators are fully aware that they are working with others and then contacting and soliciating them to come join Team Lief. Along with stealing others personals and our groups and putting them in their groups into lief. Let’s face it none of them or their activities are ethical from our experience. When they stole our profit-sharing they obviously stole our groups and re-distributed them and now they are doing the same and putting them into Lief.

  45. Dorothy permalink
    January 17, 2012 10:19 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  46. Finally permalink
    January 18, 2012 3:01 pm

    Exactly what they do to their Pastors Speak, exactly. All in the name of Christ

  47. January 18, 2012 9:00 pm

    Here are a few search terms over the past few days. People are definitely curious about Orrin’s absence from the MonaVie 2.0 launch event in Dallas.

    • why was orrin woodward not at mvp 2.0
    • why orrin woodward not at mvp 2.0
    • orrin woodward mvp
    • team + monavie + mvp
    • orrin woodward leaves monavie
    • orrin woodward monavie 2012
    • life team monavie
  48. January 19, 2012 6:49 am

    No need to add anything, the gurus are doing a great job exposing their true colors.

    They are demanding to attend seminars (“The only excuse there is for missing a major is a funeral. Your own.), so based on this information the conclusion seems obvious.

    Just kidding 🙂

    I am amazed that the great guru’s put so much effort in promoting themselves in so many ways, and than flunk this way! Don’t they realize that they are surely digging their own grave, the critics do not even have to touch a spade!

    Followers will see the inconsistencies, and if they did spent their last money and valuable time to meet their obligations, the big leaders must certainly have disappointed them not showing up. And with that, they created a new feeding ground themselves for the seed of doubt to develop.

    I suppose OW and others will come up with a “logical” explanation for their absence on their many websites and weblogs.

    Followers of TEAM am LIFE, please start to realize that there is a difference in what the leaders say and what they do. This is so obvious for someone who has never been sucked in into this business system. Do not ignore the many inconsistencies I personally learned about. Be as critical to your own upper line or to the system as you are to the people on this blog. I would even say do also not automatically accept the critical opinion of ex-members here instantly (because you would just be a follower of another group). However, use their often clear information to do your own research and draw your own conclusion. I’ll bet you will decide to pursue another career to make money.

  49. switch permalink
    January 19, 2012 10:25 am

    Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see anything about M.V. on their site. It used to be on the bottom. But now it’s no where to be found. Are they completely done with M.V.?

    If that’s the case, I definitely have some things to say/add, here.

  50. Vogel permalink
    January 19, 2012 10:12 pm

    You guys will fall off your chairs when you see this.

  51. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 20, 2012 12:03 am


    You are right…Holy crap…that is some serious stuff.

  52. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 20, 2012 3:14 am

    The chickens come home to roost.

  53. humiliated permalink
    January 20, 2012 7:14 am

    Vogel, I just about fell off my chair when I read Juicescam’s article. I am glad there is a screen shot of that “conversation” because no one would ever believe it otherwise!

    Daddy will probably say Junior is having drug issues or psychological problems but he will probably threaten his own son with a law suit so quickly, his head will spin. It will be interesting to see what unfolds there, but I really hope that Dallin Jr. has already gone to the FBI.

  54. Vogel permalink
    January 20, 2012 8:15 am

    Humiliated said: “Daddy will probably say Junior is having drug issues or psychological problems but he will probably threaten his own son with a law suit so quickly, his head will spin. It will be interesting to see what unfolds there, but I really hope that Dallin Jr. has already gone to the FBI.”

    No doubt. He’ll probably try to bribe his son to keep quiet, but it sounds like Junior has integrity, unlike his dad. In fact, I’m rather moved by Dallin the Younger’s actions. I’m impressed by someone whose values and respect for truth and fairness are more important than their desire for money. He displays the real qualities of “leadership” (which his dad utterly lacks). This kid might save the Larsen family name yet, after it was trashed by his dad and scheming uncle Randy.

    Dallin Jr, you have earned my respect and admiration for being so courageous and selfless. Bravo young man!

  55. switch permalink
    January 20, 2012 9:59 am

    I’m curious to know what mr. brady thinks now??? Of course, in 2010 he thought “it was worth it”.

    2:36: “M.V. has been EVERYTHING TO US”

    4:05: “This business has been founded on CHARACTER”

    4:18: “I hope it moves from your head to your HEART”

    4:24: “It is a PRIVILEGE to be in Mona Vie together”

    So,….. you’re going to go on your merry way and pretend nothing happened???? How???? You spewed your bullshit everywhere…..

  56. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 20, 2012 10:39 am

    More lies… MV was “everything” now its nothing. Never, ever join TEAM.

    God Bless.

  57. January 20, 2012 11:08 am

    @switch – good video find. Make sure you download the file to your computer for safekeeping. I wonder what other pro-MonaVie videos we’ll find on YouTube from the LIFE policy council members.

  58. January 20, 2012 11:20 am

    I posted a dedicated post for Dallin Larsen, Jr.’s comments. Let’s keep the discussion focused on TEAM’s apparent departure from MonaVie.

  59. switch permalink
    January 20, 2012 12:24 pm

    Here’s another one of the “one and only”.

    :35 ……….”building M.V. for the LONG HAUL”.

    How’s the juice tasting LIEfers?

  60. Vogel permalink
    January 20, 2012 1:35 pm

    I thought this portion of the Chris Brady video clip was particularly interesting:

    4:00 — “This business is founded on character – the character of Dallin and Karee Larsen…”

    That’s one heck of shaky foundation given that Mr. Larceny doesn’t have any character. His own son – his namesake Dallin Jr. — is threatening to turn in to the FBI.

  61. Vogel permalink
    January 20, 2012 2:00 pm

    Dallin and the boys might get a taste of this next.

  62. switch permalink
    January 21, 2012 10:07 am

    Just think…..a year or so from now, we could be looking at a whole new “system”….with a different name. I suppose this new life system is founded on character, integrity, and most of all HONESTY, right??? According to one of the team’s top leaders, brady even said it himself….”founded on character”…. o.w. said he’s in it for the “long haul”….and that was what…a couple of years ago?

    My money is on the name, “TEAM BULLSHIT” for the next leap.

  63. January 21, 2012 2:50 pm

    @No Team For Me permalink
    January 15, 2012 1:47 pm

    “Wow! Very hypocritical. Orrin & Team stand on stand night after night telling everyone how important the functions area and expect anyone who is serious about business to attend every event…You would think the least Orrin could do is show up. (Although to be honest, they should have promoted it to the hilt.) How can they expect their downline to promote functions when they are not doing the same?”

    Let’s see how does O pukester ensure that the last possible $ in a teammunist’s pocket ends up in his? Well just make sure the only events teammunists have to spend money on are limited to those that can line up his pockets and that he has total control over the pocket-lining system, that equates to TEAM functions only.

    He would just as well be with TEAM only than with TEAM and another MLM swindle company but for the feds.

    Evidently this guy is clearly a pecuniary egomaniac!

  64. Pre-Team X-distributor permalink
    March 1, 2012 10:58 pm

    I was a distributor before Team ever got started & left stage right as Team was entering stage left. I must preface that I did learn much about thinking big & motivation & dreaming that I still use today in my successful small business that I have had for over 12 years & I appriciate the good I took away from my 10 years with a distributorship. I did lose however, 10 years of nights & weekends with my kids & about $80,000. I now see from research that I caught onto the scam in how the big money was made & left in utter discust & shame at the beginning of the mass exedus where Haugen’s numbers started to go down. I guess I was a leader in that regard — I left over 70 people whome I don’t know what happend to after that.Team propped it all up for a while but it couldn’t last. One night at the hotel after a regional function I saw a speaker set down $600 or some close figure on a table & said it is good to be a speaker at these functions. He encouraged me to double my 50 to 60 people at the functions & then I could finally speak & get paid what was then a weeks wages for an hour of speaking. I learned then that the big money was in all the books & tapes & functions & that is the bigger reason why they are pushed so much & why you should never miss any of them. Yea, they say that without the system you can’t grow a team but when 1/2 or more of your upline’s income is based on a behind the scenes support materials & functions business but on stage they say that their Amway business makes them millionairs & this is what they can now do with all that money rolling in each month, they know they are lieing to you to motivate you to keep buying into the system & the money flowing from your pockets into theirs. You can only learn first hand how the tools profits business works after you go direct & then you have invested too much to stop & besides you then can share in the hidden income so you then have to do whatever your leaders say to keep the bigger money comming. The leaders control that flow & can take that money away if you don’t follow protocol. —- So, is it possible that if the tapes are done in-house & sold to you, that sales tax should be charged but wasn’t; or if sales tax was charged that it could be pocketed & not reported. There could be tax fraud there & more profit in a $5 tape that you were told; ( I was told they were at cost). If someone spoke on stage & it was a real doosie & sold 100,000 tapes at $5, even a 25 cent profit is $125,000 in a month spread among many upline but I bet someone near the top could get $10,000 for that talk. When you shared the plan these things were never mentioned but, you showed examples of millionairs who got at least half way there by profiting from the unseen plan. I’m just sayin.

  65. Gordon Freeman permalink
    May 5, 2012 1:44 am

    While it is interesting to contemplate where Woodward might have been, there’s a far more important question here: will Cameron’s father figure out they took the car?

  66. June 3, 2012 3:30 am

    Ha ha! MV sales are up big time! Ken Porter went crown, my black diamond sponsor went royal, etc etc etc. Y’all need to stop gossiping and go build your mlm biz

  67. beth.bennett permalink
    December 6, 2013 2:12 pm

    Gee, one guy doesn’t show up to one function an the world falls apart.

  68. December 9, 2013 11:48 am

    I just saw something in an almost 2 year old post from Pre Team that I thought was interesting and that’s the tax issue. Where does the tax on Life products & Team tools go? I asked my upline once & was told it was being stashed away in case they start charging tax. Huh? That answer didn’t make sense but I didn’t push the issue. I stored it away and it became another domino that fell.

    So where does it go? I would assume into some super secret sharing pool. Do any of you OG Amway/Team insiders know?

  69. Vogel permalink
    December 9, 2013 12:07 pm

    If they collected tax that wasn’t applicable, then that would be a felony. One of many no doubt.

  70. Former Round Table permalink
    December 10, 2013 6:05 am

    Very interesting. Back before they had “Direct Fulfillment” and everyone had to get their weekly system from their upline, the Team charged full Michigan sales tax on the entire order to the upline. I always assumed (I hate that word!) that they were remitting those taxes to the state of Michigan. Hhmm, I wonder how you could check that out?

  71. One time Fly that sat at the Team Conference Table permalink
    December 10, 2013 10:07 am

    I can’t speak or offer anything currently, but when I was there tax were paid. There was a big crap storm once when the Finance Office almost forgot to submit the quarterly taxes once. Several departments were scrambling to submit need numbers to assist. I also learned from my time there how to submit these properly.

  72. MN Vikings fan permalink
    December 10, 2013 7:07 pm

    Sales tax should be remitted to the state where it was collected. In the state where I live the frequency that you remit the taxes depends on the amount of sales you do monthly. So, the bigger businesses remit monthly and the smaller businesses annually. A mid-sized business remits quarterly. It is my guess that these guys would be quarterly in my state. It is doubtful these guys would willingly try to cheat the sales tax system since they know there is a good chance they will be audited (potentially in any state where they make taxable sales). The penalties and interest assessed during an audit really make it worthwhile to accurately and timely remit your sales tax. If you don’t have any proof that they are cheating the sales tax system then I highly doubt they are.


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