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LIFE One Time Cash Bonus Awards

January 20, 2012

Excited about the recently announced One Time Cash Bonus Awards from LIFE?

These bonuses are given to LIFE members who reach certain levels in the business. They range from $3000 for a Leader 6 (~150 people in the organization) all the way up to $250,000 for a Triple Life Coach 12 (~2250 people in the organization).

Here is a reader-submitted chart regarding what’s involved to reach these levels:

No doubt LIFE members are being whipped up in a frenzy by the lure of some extra money. No doubt some people will get these bonuses, but they will probably be those you’ve already heard before: Woodward, Brady, Marks, Hawkins, etc. Everyone will be simply be contributing a penny here, a dollar there, towards these bonuses, with each purchase of a book, CD, or function ticket. Remember, the bonus money has to come from somewhere!

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42 Comments leave one →
  1. webelieved permalink
    January 20, 2012 7:12 am

    Looks like Orrin owes a lot of us a lot of money due to the potential earnings he stole, by stealing our teams! This will be great for an attorney to see! Too bad he doesn’t list that only 7 out of 100’s of thousands ever got to PC as in his past record shows! And the majority of the money goes to the top 1%? Help me out Brent. 🙂

  2. January 20, 2012 8:30 am

    I have never been involved with Team, but was invited to a meeting last night to learn about the “system.” I left early (the first opportunity I had), because the hair on the back of my neck was standing up–I could tell immediately this was a pyramid scheme. Problem is, some of my acquaintances were there and believing what was taught. I don’t know these people well enough to bluntly point out that they’ve gotten involved in a scam (some of them have already been involved for several months). I noticed an almost cultish glee surrounding the CD’s and the “big shot” who led the meeting. Any chance these CD’s contain subliminal messages? One of my acquaintances mentioned she was unconvinced until she listened to 2 or 3 of their CD’s, which made me wonder. I’m trying to think of a kind way to lead her to this information–this particular acquaintance is an older lady, who will most likely not investigate this company online. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

  3. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 20, 2012 10:31 am

    TEAM is all smoke and mirrors. Things like this come out that are hard to understand for even the average college educated person. They build them up with hype and half truths to distract people from ever really digging deeper. If you are on here for the first time don’t be fooled by TEAM lies.

    God Bless.

  4. January 20, 2012 10:45 am

    @CB – Do you remember the name of the “big shot” who spoke at the meeting last night?

    Did they make any mention of MonaVie as part of the F = Fitness category?

    Finally, how were you prospected to come to the meeting?

    I would challenge your acquaintance on what she really knows about the business. The numbers don’t lie, and the numbers tell everyone here that the majority of people who get involved will not make money (esp. when you take into account the time invested). Try to get her to think critically about this business, instead of thinking and acting based on her emotions.

    Good luck!

  5. January 20, 2012 11:03 am

    @Amthrax–No I’m sorry, I don’t remember his name, but he’s from Michigan, I believe.

    During the first part of the meeting (which is the only part I stayed for), they didn’t specifically mention MonaVie, but they certainly did talk about the 8 F’s.

    I was invited to the meeting by a woman I attend church with. She’s very sweet, kind, and in need of cash due to her husband’s car accident and resulting injuries. I think she and others in the group are being snookered by the “Christian” label Team uses, but there didn’t seem to be anything Christian about this group. Upon my first attempt to leave the meeting, a gentleman (who came with the big shot) started up a conversation with me, so I politely participated to a point (I knew what he was doing). Finally, he asked me about getting involved with Team, but I told him I wasn’t interested. He asked if I would at least take some CD’s to listen to. I said no, I am not interested, and that I preferred to check things out on my own. This clearly upset him, and he said “Okay, that’s fine. I’m not sure how you’re going to accomplish that outside of here, but I respect that,” with an obvious sarcastic tone. Everything just seemed positioned to make it really uncomfortable and conspicuous if you wanted to leave, but I fought the urge to succumb to the social pressure and left anyway. After reading several of the posts and comments on this site, I’m extremely glad I did leave!

  6. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 20, 2012 1:20 pm

    CB very astute observation. You now know the truth, now share the truth.

  7. January 20, 2012 1:48 pm

    @ TruthSeeker–I guess my question is, how do I share the truth with people who appear to be fully invested already? A handful of my acquaintances were also at the meeting, and seemed so excited and anxious to share their find with others. With this level of excitement, how do I convince people (with whom I do not have real relationships) that they have bought into a scam at best, and cult at worst?

  8. Mike Collins permalink
    January 20, 2012 4:30 pm

    I would like to point out the reality of the numbers posted above in the pdf. Please keep in mind that these are absolutely a “best case scenario” in terms of percentages. In other words, this is as “good” as it will EVER get. The numbers CANNOT get better than this. We do not have any data on Lief as of yet because it is so new but we do have data produced by the very company that Orrin is now leaving to build his own scam. Below you will find an email that I sent to Amthrax and Brent that reflects what the reality of this type of “opportunity”. I have made a couple of corrections Amthrax (I misplaced a couple of decimals)

    The first “big pin” in the MV “opportunity” is Ruby. I hit Ruby in 10 weeks when I first got into MV. I had 4,000 people in my organization. The reason I tell you all this is so that you will know that I speak from experience……

    In order to hit Ruby you need 50 people on the left and 50 people on the right all on 200pv = 10,000 points on each side for two consecutive weeks. If you do this you will qualify as a Ruby.

    That’s 1 out of 201 or 0.5% able to hit Ruby. This is a “best case scenario.” It does not ever get any better than this. What’s more is…it will NEVER happen. The reason these numbers are so significant is because you can extrapolate the same type of averages from any comp plan just by running this model next to them. The more breakage mechanisms in place (see stairstep) the worse the averages are.

    Watch this: When I went Ruby in 2008 there were approx. 147 Rubies (I counted them on Monavie on the move) but only about half were getting “paid as” Rubies. In 2008 there were (according to MV’s IDS) <1% getting paid at this rank. When I went Ruby there were approx. 2,000,000 distributors in MV. Less than 1%? Talk about an understatement! With 2,000,000 distributors in MV and the "possibility" that 0.5% (10,000) can hit that rank only 147 actually hit it.

    In other words, it is possible, if the tree was perfectly structured, that 0.5% or 10,000 out of 2,000,000 people could hit the rank of Ruby but only 147 had at that time or 0.00735%

    There are currently approx. 1040 Rubies on the website. Most of these have all quit by now. I personally know Rubies that have moved on to other companies and MV still shows them as a Ruby. Heck, they even had me up there the last time I checked. But let's just say they were all still in. What would the actual numbers of "successful" people really look like?

    As of yesterday (Jan. 12 2012) there were 3,766,955 people who have enrolled in MV with only 1040 ever hitting Ruby. That's 0.0276% To put it another way: With 3,766,955 distributors it would be possible to have 0.5% or 18,834 Rubies in a perfectly built structure. There are only 1040 who have qualified at this rank. That’s only 5.5% of the 0.5% possible Rubies ever making it. The numbers are SO bad that it forced MV to remove an entire category of data from the 2010 IDS Obviously there is nowhere near this many people in MV anymore. They have all quit. Why? Because that's what people do when they don't make money or stop making money. They turn off their autoship and quit.

    If MLM companies published data like MV there numbers would absolutely mirror what you see here with some ever so slight variation on the percentages depending on the profit allocation in the comp plan the the company chooses.
    So again, Lief pays out 70%! Big deal. It’s paying it out to the wrong people. Your model still SUCKS orrin. It SUCKS money out of the pockets of the people who can least afford it. I would ask you how you sleep at night but I already know the answer…like most crooks do……very well….until the jig is up. Your day is coming buddy………………..

  9. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 20, 2012 5:27 pm

    Excellent point Michael, a ‘best case’ scenario is always the only picture that can be painted when you run an analysis on any compensation plan. NEVER does a comp plan pay out anywhere near a ‘best case’ scenario.

    So if you your mathematical analysis says that 1% is the max amount of people to earn from any bonus or payout, the reality will usually be 1/10th of that.

    That is why Dr. Taylor shows such dismal break-even odds, because he has learned to analyze and report such data.

    Instead of saying there is more money in the comp plan, why not just say that these bonuses are the extra paycheck for the PC members? That would be a much more accurate reality.

  10. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 20, 2012 5:32 pm

    @CB, that is a tough question. I was fully invested for many years, and you couldn’t have talked sense to me either. My reality changed when I finally saw past the words, and examined the model for the business it was supposed to be.

    Perhaps you can get them to run through a quick analysis of the model itself, and ask them questions that would force them to forget the rhetoric and explain the mathematics and compensation dollars. You can argue in depth about opinion, but the facts stop people dead in their tracks.

    If you need my help about how to do this feel free to contact me through Amthrax, I would be glad to give you a few ideas. amthrax@ymail.com

  11. Spooked permalink
    January 20, 2012 6:14 pm

    So are those cash awards shared between the whole team? The person I know who’s in said he got paid 500.00 last month.. and thats just the begining..thousands more to come… .. I’d like to know how much they pay in just to make that 500.00

  12. Brent Hansen permalink
    January 21, 2012 9:13 am

    Spooked,

    Lets take a look at this to see how plausible it would be that your friend is earning $500 from the Life compensation plan. Usually when someone throws out such an arbitrary and capricious number as that, they seldom realize exactly what they have said. Then when you call them out on the facts, they seldom substantiate or give evidence to prove their claim.

    What exactly would it take to earn $500 from the plan? Well, here it is.

    The ‘person’ you know would need somewhere around 60 people on their team. Each person would need to be on a $50 subscription and each would need to have a customer on a $50 subscription as well. Scenario number two would be that this ‘person’ has 60 people on their team each doing $100 in volume.

    How does the math work? It is simple. Sixty people each generating $100 in volume whether by themselves or with a customer would generate gross revenues of $6000. That would qualify the top person for a 40% commission or $2400. If the teams were split equally with 30 on each side generating $3000 each, both sides would qualify for a 30% return or $900 per side.

    The ‘person’ in question would then receive $2400 minus the $1800 in commission or $900 to each side for a total net commission of $600.

    So if you have reason to believe that your friend has 60 people each at $100 or 60 people at $50 each having a customer, then it would be reasonable to assume that your friend made $500 last month. If he/she does not, then you could call B.S. on their statement.

    Lots of folks love to say they are earning, when usually in reality they mad $50 bucks or so and spent $200. Numbers never lie.

  13. January 21, 2012 9:25 am

    @CB
    Whatever you do, do not challenge them, do not change the friends tone you risk driving them away. You know now that you know this truth. They are not to know that. If you challenge them they are taught to shun, shut you off and not listen to you, just like all cults in which case won’t be able to reach out and help them. Secondly if you let them in on, that you know this truth they are taught that the we here are just internet critics up to to no good for them. They won’t listen to you because you have been lied to, yada yada. They are taught their cult leaders are the only source of correct info. That’s why you got that comment (notice the caps emphasis) “Okay, that’s fine. I’m not sure how you’re going to accomplish that OUTSIDE OF HERE, but I respect that,” Of course there was no respect as you may imagine.

    They love being students of the system. In all that you are going to learn to arm yourself you have to figure out how to present yourself as a student wanting to get some answers so you can make an educated decision. Just that you want some answers first to some questions, think through what is making sense, not emotionally but just logics, then you will see about this whole thing. Then present the cold hard facts as your questions, like the numbers you have seen here or whatever other suggestions you get here. Try this approach see what happens.

    Also it will serve you well to learn about cults. Check out howcultswork.com or similar and download the free eBook Merchants of Deception by Eric Shiebeler. There’s a link here somewhere or just google it.

    Let us know the progress.

  14. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 21, 2012 9:38 am

    Brent thanks and You said; “Each person would need to be on a $50 subscription and each would need to have a customer on a $50 subscription as well.”

    From what I have read they consider someone on the very minimum $50 dollar subscription; those they would consider customers. Obviously to cover their butts and are doing the same as they all do to (knowing this really isn’t legitimate) protecting them from being a ‘illegal -self consuming pyramid’, even though those bottom subscribers would be registered in Team/ Lief and Not bona-fide customers. I will have to recheck on this but it is the way I read it.

    Same they way they taught in Amway…just click the ‘customer’ button knowing full well they were gaming and really being illegal because they were NOT real customers. But this we have seen repeatedly in the scam…just doing whatever to make it appear they are within the guidelines.

  15. January 21, 2012 9:46 am

    @CB – You can also go to the Freedom of Mind web site and read up on the BITE model. The site has a lot of good resources on what to do: http://freedomofmind.com

  16. January 21, 2012 10:39 am

    Good job Brent breaking it down.

    True ambots get emotionally excited over receiving the check at month end, to which the significance is perhaps to prove to themselves and their followers they made money. What they almost always over look is the month’s expenses. Thus, they are emotionally taught “thousands more are coming” so not to look at the bottom line, profit = revenue – expenses, through statements such as if the dream is big enough the facts don’t count. I guess you could say the $500 or whatever actually never made it home. But truth is that check does have a big emotional hook for that person, the people around him and of course new prospects.

    May I also add (to Brent’s comment) that the greater majority of this cash is generated within the group than without, from the bottom up. There are hardly any 3rd party sales as is usually the norm with mlm’s, an obvious violation of established law. In essence it’s just cash being passed on up to the cult leaders from the ambots at the bottom, a form of a ponzi scheme. Thus, these commercial cults operate as a closed-market swindle and clearly not as legitimate businesses. The cult leaders know the numbers, that not all ambots will get to the top or even make any money, in fact the majority loose it and yet these charlatans continue to sell the dream to mlmbots. And the con game continues.

  17. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 21, 2012 1:47 pm

    exambot & Brent~

    Excellent and concise posts…pretty much sums the whole ball of wax! Also great advice to CB…I agree great advice from Amthrax and exambot.

  18. January 21, 2012 2:11 pm

    Thank you everyone for your helpful comments and advice. I’m sure you all understand, but it’s very difficult to sit idly on the outside, knowing that your friends and acquaintances are inside being defrauded by charlatans (to borrow exambot’s word).

  19. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 21, 2012 2:33 pm

    CB~

    We are with you in the understanding there is no quick fix, unless of course they would be held to the same laws every other business is. They like to claim they are just like ‘conventional business’ when they have no argument or need to manipulate, then they say out the other side of their mouth, it isn’t like a traditional or conventional business.

    This is a hallmark of the MLM scammers…double messages, double standards, distract, divert, and dellude themselves. They teach and use ‘stop thinking’ techniques on people..’answer a question with a question’ ..etc.

    I believe it be safe to say we all are happy to help in anyway and is the reason I continue to come here; because it would be much simpler to walk away.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 21, 2012 2:38 pm

    One last thing if you read Steve Hassan’s books, which you can find out about them on the freedom of mind website Amthrax recommeded. These books will give you some great information on how to approach anyone in cults. Good luck to you..and eventually your friend will find their way here… 🙂 It is inevitable, when they figure out it is a scam…they will start searching for the truth and will find it!!! 🙂

    We understand it is a very painful process to watch and go through… we have walked the walk for way too long and from my standpoint; is the worst and most corrupt thing I have ever experienced and been a part of.

  21. Spooked permalink
    January 21, 2012 4:20 pm

    Thank you for putting that in simple terms for me..When I’m around them I just listen..then I come here and ask questions..exambot your right I confronted him once..he asked me once dont you want to make 60 to 70 thousand a year? I said ..Do you really think that big dog at the top will ever let you win? He didnt talk to me for 3 weeks…I went to one meeting at the end of that meeting one of the top guys( Im guessing ) looked right at me and said if our friends and family dont want to be involved forget about them and move on.. Their in deep I just hope they find their way out..soon,, Thank you everybody for being so helpful I’ve learned so much from this website maybe they will find their way here too…

  22. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 4:35 pm

    CB- The best book I have read that really explains how people get wrapped up in this and how they think is Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steve Hasan. Also on the God angle, Consumed By Success and All that Glitters is Not God. If you friend believes this is a Christian Organization and that God brought them to this, that they are leading people to truth, or a better life, which many believe, you will need that insight as well. I would recommend like others you keep the friendship and keep asking questions. Once they believe you will never join them they will cut off relationship with most outsiders. Good Luck.

  23. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 4:48 pm

    I have studied cults and spent some time with cult experts and in my opinion Team hierarchy operates just like a cult. The higher you go the more you have to give up who you are. Many followers become like a cd, talk like a cd, and only believe information they are spoon fed. Your critical thinking skills will be stripped from you slowly as you involve yourself in their system and you become dependent on the group to think for you and to help make your decisions. Hence mentoring etc. Once you get up high in the hierarchy, you will be expected to toll the line and do WHATEVER your PC says. If you don’t, WATCH OUT! It is called coercion through the use of punishments and rewards, which can and has included them taking your hard earned business, or destroying your teams.
    The messages followers are getting is “You gotta get your thinking right, only take advice from people who are successful if you want what they have? Criticism is the deathgargle of a nonacheiver, do what others do to have what others won’t ever have…..” Blah, blah, meanwhile behind the rosey scene they are portraying, some at the top are doing a lot of corrupt, deceptive things to keep the followers pocketbooks open and close their minds in my opinion.

  24. January 21, 2012 5:12 pm

    @webelieved–I started to pick up on the cult vibe pretty early in the meeting, actually even before the “big shot” arrived. There was just an *almost* frenzied glee over the whole thing (the speaker, the CD’s, the system in general), that the atmosphere felt kind of out-of-control to me. It was like these normally intelligent people had all decided to leave their brains on the driveway. Please don’t misunderstand, I’m not at all mocking those who have gotten involved, it just felt really odd as an outsider looking in. My Mom is a psychologist, so I guess I’ve picked up enough information from her over the years to catch the subtle psychology of the speaker’s chosen words and the “insider” mentality of the group. This is the first time in my life I’ve ever seen something like this, and it’s just really shocking and horrible. Not only do I want to help my acquaintances, but I think it’s been really helpful to come here and process through everything.

  25. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 5:17 pm

    CB- the book I referenced is one of Steve Hasan’s. I want you to know , my family hated the business and tried to talk to me several times, but I could not hear them as I was indoctrinated to believe they were the enemy critics. They didn’t know how to approach me and if they had know the information in the Combatting Cult Mind Control, and talked to an expert they could have helped me get out. Unfortunately they didn’t do any research, or try, and I lost many years of my life to this LIE! 😦
    I actually made it and then had it stolen from me by my PC. So even if you do make it, others have total control of if you get to keep it, it is not quote “your business”. Read the Morgan’s story under the LIFE PRIMER at the top right. They are another couple who had their business and reputation destroyed by their upline PCs Guzzardo and Woodward. Some integrity, NOT!

  26. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 5:32 pm

    CB- It is VERY scary. I cannot believe how I gave up my whole life for this LIE. Once I started studying other cults I could see they operated the same. Maybe different words or language, but very similar. The reason it feels weird is they purposely idolize the leaders, they edify them like little Gods to the followers and parade around the money they are supposedly making, and the followers model the same behavior. They also have a no negative policy. It is a cardinal sin to talk about ANYTHING that would be negative in the group environment especially to your downline(someone below you) or to someone not in your group. Thereby creating a fake all positive environment.
    The person who brought you will take you up to meet the speaker who is trained to dote on the person who contacted you, “oh this guy has a great business, he’s done this and that, blah blah blah”.Then group pressure is used, the whole room clapping etc.
    I would place a bet in Vegas that Orrin has studied thought reform.
    Check out info on AMO’s on Hasan’s site- Amway Motivational Organizations, that is where Team LIFE came from and they operate basically the same as they did in Amway with just a new name and now the motivation is the product.

  27. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 5:50 pm

    It is VERY sad this group preys on people that are looking for a better life, that are deficient in some way, pretend they are counselors, and then take money from them and mess with their minds. Your mom may be a great source of help for you, but I can tell you many counselors do not really understand how cults operate. I would highly recommend to anyone in your situation to consult a cult expert if you want to get someone you love out. It can be very hard to do, depending on how long they have been in the system. The cds effectively change your thinking and not in the way they promise. It is very dangerous to your freedom of mind. You have to approach them the right way to get to their critical thinking, or they will shut you off in their mind. Usually the best way is to show them through talking about another group and then they can make the connection in their mind, that what they are in is similar. They will never believe they are in a cult if you go directly at them, they have already been indoctrinated against that. Or even better, you find an ex member that has a lot of experience, high up in the group, and with a cult expert you do a family intervention. That is why you will want to read a lot before taking any action.
    Trust me if you help them, when they are free, they will be grateful.

  28. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 5:51 pm

    ***Of course all of my comments on this blog are my opinions from years of experience with Team and Orrin Woodward and Co.

  29. January 21, 2012 6:02 pm

    Webelieved–I’ve been wondering about the CD’s, because of a few comments I heard at the meeting. Any chance they contain subliminal messages, or just use deceptive psychology to brainwash people?

  30. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 7:03 pm

    I don’t know about subliminal messages, but people do not know that they are usually hand picked for you, to match your situation, personality, or life experiences so you will relate to the speaker in some way. It is the hook. We used to have first night packs with two cds that hit all the personalities, it was by design. One for detailed people and one for fun, emotional driven people. That way they hit them all, one you would hate and the other you will love. That is why they want you to listen, then come the messages, us vs them, but very subtle. Most would not recognize it unless they are trained to.

  31. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 7:05 pm

    IF you are a strong willed person they use reverse psychology, Well not everyone can do this business, or this business isn’t for everyone. It will be a challenge to that personality.
    Many of the leaders have studied personalities, love languages, etc. All the better to manipulate.

  32. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 7:06 pm

    If one is laid back they will just give you a ticket and charge you later. I’ll pick you up, etc. They will make promises based on your personality. Fun for the fun lover. It is deceptive and disturbing now that I can see how we were trained. We believed we were doing what was in the best interest of the prospect, but now I believe it is deceptive manipulation. Many will believe God sent them this business, how could it all fit them perfectly. Well it was by design.

  33. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 7:13 pm

    Books are also handpicked specifically for the prospect. At least if one is working with a leader. Also the art of confession is used. They ask a lot of questions and don’t answer much without a cd.
    They get you to confess your dreams, goals, longings and then get you to believe it will all come through the business. Also they will make instant friends. It is NOT normal. But you trust the friend who brought you, so you fall in. It is really scary how highly planned it all is. They pick you up, drive you to meetings, come to your house, do you a favor so you feel you owe them back. They develop relationships, but if you quit or go off system they will drop you in an instant.
    They will call their upline and give them a heads up about you before you get there many times. And if you confide in someone there is NO confidentiality, but they try to act like counselors and of course they are NOT qualified to counsel one in an ethical way, as they have a financial interest in you staying and spending your money and leading them to more people to spend their money.

    All my opinions and experiences with Team.

  34. webelieved permalink
    January 21, 2012 7:25 pm

    The goal is to get to the next person off your list as fast as possible. So make a names list, contact your friends, get them to the tues open or a house meeting, then at the open/house meeting sell them or give them a seminar ticket, once at the seminar the goal is to hook you through the story/emotions and sell you a major leadership ticket, once you go there you will listen to endless indoctrination and how you need to buy more stuff, and then you will be hooked. That is where you are hooked for good, and believe. Along the way add in some recognition for people who are supposedly making it work, living the dream, hitting new levels in the business. What they won’t tell you is, some on stage were given free teams stolen from other leaders, tons of leaders have left Orrin for team’s unethical behavior, some of the recognition may be bought, Orrin stole the residual income from some of his own leaders who built part of his business for him, some leaders have filed bankruptcy, one PC filed strategic foreclosure, they came from Amway, and so much more.

  35. webelieved permalink
    January 22, 2012 5:55 am

    They also won’t tell you most leaders are working much more than a full time job, nights and weekends away from their families. That’s right a second shift job, on top of ones regular job.
    To me most revealing of all is the policies and procedures for LIFE. They can take your business anytime, for any reason with no legal recourse available to you it seems. People that are your competitors and benefit from taking your business/teams can decide or influence decisions that allow you to keep or not keep your business. Does that sound fair? NO. That alone should make one run, much less all the destructive manipulation they use. Unfortunatly we had no contract given to us to read, so we have no idea about any rules or regulations. It seems they made up the rules as they went along. They are corrupt and have not kept their word, it doesn’t mean anything.
    Also, no one really knows how they are paid, especially in Team profit sharing. Orrin can change the numbers whenever he wants, and it has been reported here that he did. I know of unfair pay in Team in the past and would love for them to have to open their books. People like the Raatz questioned team PC and the office to explain how they were being paid and they were voted out of profit sharing, as if that is legal?
    What a friggin joke they are…….

  36. January 22, 2012 10:54 am

    @CB – I think the brainwashing with the CD’s comes from repetition rather than subliminal messages. Members are strongly encouraged to listen to the CD’s over and over. I have a post coming out tomorrow which gives more information on this.

  37. webelieved permalink
    January 22, 2012 11:30 am

    New guys were told to listen to at least two to three cds a day, minimum. That was @3 hours a day. Then read at least 15 minutes a day. If you wanted to be successful and help a lot of people. Some leaders were listening to 8 a day, brainwashing themselves. Is it no wonder they sound like a cd. It was seen as a badge of courage if one did that. 😦
    In my opinion, listening to cds helps in loading the lauguage and that is why sometimes it is hard to understand when a teambot comes here and talks. It is like they have their own language and you learn it by modeling your upline and speakers, to fit into the group. Effectively learning and using the language strips you of the ability to relate to the outside world and strips the ability to use your critical thinking. Once you are indoctrinated you fit in better in the group and feel more comfortable there. That is why people say followers sound like a cd because they cannot think on their own, they just repeat the same rhetoric they hear from stage or a cd. Little do they know that behind the scenes in my opinion they are being decieved.

  38. webelieved permalink
    January 22, 2012 11:33 am

    From a counselors point of view, I wonder if they believe this group would be ethical giving counsel without a liscense or real training, and with the conflicting interest of the mentors unending income potential, with no checks and balances from outside the group?

  39. webelieved permalink
    January 22, 2012 11:34 am

    They answer to no one and THAT is DANGEROUS.

  40. January 22, 2012 12:19 pm

    @Webelieved–I know from my mother’s training that the rules for ethical counseling abound, but if you haven’t been trained or licensed, no one can stop you. Anytime a counselor has a vested interest in the client or his/her issues (family member, financial gain, business partners, etc.), the only appropriate action is to refer the client to a new counselor. But, we all know that human beings love to give advice, requested or not. So, there’s no legal liability *until* the person giving advice has been trained or licensed. If any of these Team members are shelling out advice or counsel while holding a license, or having been trained, they are legally responsible for their actions. Of course, this may vary from state to state also.

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