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TEAM Leadership Convention This Weekend

January 25, 2012

TEAM’s Leadership Convention is this weekend in Columbus, Ohio. It starts early with a meeting of the Round Table on Thursday evening, followed by a Leadership meeting on Friday afternoon for those TEAM LIFE members who qualify as Power Player, Turbo 10 Tickets (convention) or Student 15K LIFE Rank.

The event kicks off in earnest on late Friday afternoon and will run through Sunday. Here’s a list of the scheduled speakers:

  • Orrin & Laurie Woodward
  • Chris & Terri Brady
  • Tim & Amy Marks
  • Claude & Lana Hamilton
  • Dan & Lisa Hawkins
  • Bill & Jackie Lewis
  • George & Jill Guzzardo

It’s interesting to note that Dallin Larsen is scheduled to speak on behalf of MonaVie as well at Leadership. We all know that Orrin Woodward and the rest of the TEAM leadership played hooky from MonaVie 2.0 in Dallas two weeks ago, so I wonder if Dallin will return the favor. After all, MonaVie is having its second MonaVie 2.0 conference in Vancouver, Canada, during this same weekend. If he does attend in person, he’ll probably do so on Friday night, so that he can fly back from Ohio to Vancouver in time.

The forecast for Columbus this weekend is wet, partly cloudy, snowy and cold. To those TEAM members who will be traveling to the Leadership Convention, travel safely and stay warm. Pay close attention to what your leaders say and compare it with what they have done. Watch your pocketbook, because everyone’s going to want you to buy tools, tools, and more tools from the Tool Room.

Readers, leave a comment about your experiences at past Leaderships below.

199 Comments leave one →
  1. littledufflebagboy permalink
    January 25, 2012 1:26 pm

    tools tools and tools lol. go figure, the pc is nothing but TOOLS themselves.

  2. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 25, 2012 2:19 pm

    I’m sure they will have so many items that “make building the business so much easier”. Turns out it is a business that the bigger you build it they more more people you hurt, including those you love. If you are on the fence and are reading this: DON’T GO!

    God Bless

  3. Katie permalink
    January 25, 2012 2:38 pm

    One year ago this weekend was my first (of only two) TEAM/LIFE conventions … also in Columbus, OH. Apparently that region is still “exploding” and “fired up.” I almost left after the first night, because Dallin Larsen’s aggressively Christian speech almost made me vomit… I’m sorry, but if Christ is compelling you to sell purple juice for $40/bottle, you’ve got another thing coming. If I hadn’t been 6 hours from home, I probably would have driven back in the middle of the night and forfeited the rest of the ticket and hotel money. Instead I sat through a 15-hour day the next day that left me feeling less hopeful and totally unrelated to anyone in the audience. All I heard was stories about moms being home with their kids in their 4,000 square foot houses while the husbands went out in their fancy cars and showed the plan and went power player. As a single, liberal, non-Christian female with a college degree and a fabulous, comfortable corporate job, I really did not fit the profile of the typical TEAM/LIFE-r…. and I felt it. It is so possible to feel alone in a room of 15,000 people.

    Agreed with Freedomhaha – DON’T GO. I would have much rather spent that weekend with my family than with a bunch of strangers that didn’t respect my opinions.

    I wonder if we will get any reports about the MV presence at this convention.

  4. Vogel permalink
    January 25, 2012 3:14 pm

    What they didn’t mention is that those 4000 sq ft homes have upside down mortgages and the cars are leased. It’s all BS…a mirage.

    And wow, a single, liberal, college-educated, non-Christian female with a corporate job at a TEAM/LIEf must have been about as popular as a porcupine at a balloon factory. Did they make you wear a scarlet letter?

    You rock Katie!

  5. No Team For Me permalink
    January 25, 2012 4:25 pm

    Katie – Where did you get the 15,000 people number at (regarding how many were at the convention Ohio last year). TEAM is notorius for inflating numbers. I’m sure the number came from one of the PC’s but I was just wondering which one lied this time.

    Their largest conventions in the past few years have only had 7-8,000. Down considerably from the 25-30,000 estimated turnout at the famous meeting in Louisville 4 years ago.

  6. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 25, 2012 5:37 pm

    Katie- Thanks a lot for sharing your story. I am sorry that you had to go through that BS with TEAM. You sharing your story on here will help other women that can relate. Best of luck with everything in the future.

  7. Finally permalink
    January 25, 2012 6:11 pm

    Lousiville had about 8,000 people, they never even came close to 30K, the most ever at a seminar I believe was at the Breslin center. They always have to inflate numbers to create the illusion that there are more than they can actually put in the seats.

  8. No Team For Me permalink
    January 25, 2012 10:38 pm

    Finally – they did have around 25,000 at one function in late 2007 in Louisville when everyone came together for the 1st time – Haugen, Goetschel, Harteis, Libby, Smith, Sims, Crawford, Florence, DiSalvatore, Newton, Sitzler, Robson,etc. That was the only time. It was considerably more than they ever had at the Breslin Center.

    That was during the non-compete period. They really did fill the entire arena, and had several thousand in the overflow arena.

    From there, the numbers began to dip substantially, especially when Haugen, Florence, Smith, Sims Goetschel, etc pulled out at the St. Louis function. After that the numbers fluctuated between 6-8,000 for the past 2-3 years or so.

  9. Katie permalink
    January 26, 2012 5:59 am

    I sort of pulled that number out of thin air – 15,000 is what they were saying, I don’t remember any more if that was true or not. Possibly closer to 10,000. Maybe I kind of blocked it out =P

  10. switch permalink
    January 26, 2012 7:40 am

    Watch for me! I’ll be wearing a shirt that says, “I LOVE PASTOR DICKIE!!!” on it. Of course, with small type that says, “…never a rascal” down by my ASS!

  11. not signed up yet permalink
    January 26, 2012 7:50 am

    Ah do anything you can to get to a Major, sell your stuff on ebay, give plasma, mow yards…

    I thats what I was told to do last spring. On top of that I only knew one person in TEAM and they said they;d come and ge tme and drive me there in a van. And we;d all room together and have peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and bring our own food.

    Red flags….drive 14 hours across the country with people I dont know, cram me into a hotel room with people I dont know…and if these people are making sooo much money, they bring thier own food and are eating PBJ all weekend jsut to hear stuff you can hear on the CDS?

    Sounds like fun. No thanks.

  12. No Team For Me permalink
    January 26, 2012 8:57 am

    Joe Darkangelo just tweeted that he’s looking forward to “spending the weekend with 15,000 of his friends”. Does he have double vision?

  13. free to live again! permalink
    January 26, 2012 12:04 pm

    I remember working at the tool room. People would spend anywhere from $500 to $1000 on tools at the majors and I remember thinking that that was an awful lot of money to be spending on tools, but really didn’t think twice about it. Also, the team office people that sits behind the workers, well, they used to be nice and helpful, but towards the end of our time with team, one of the last few times we worked in the tool room, the team office people were flat out rude to me – if I had questions or problems, they seemed annoyed with me – and it seemed the “customers” were also getting ruder by the second. It’s funny how I used to think volunteering at the majors was fun and showed our loyalty, but in reality, we spent $125 a ticket ($90 before they just HAD to increase prices due to the economy) to miss half of the major? Blah!

  14. No Team For Me permalink
    January 26, 2012 2:21 pm

    free to live again – I used to think that was so odd to. To charge people $90 to spend the weekend missing the function and ‘volunteering’ in the tool room. All so they could put more money in the pockets of the PC members.

    I was also amazed at how many people, including myself, regularly spent upwards of $1,000 on tools.

    The entire function was nothing but a big infomercial to sell tools. So they charged everyone $90 a piece for the right to be given a hard-sell on purchasing tools. What a gig.

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 26, 2012 2:42 pm

    Free to live again~

    That is too sad. All those who served, sacrificed for years because most of them ‘volunteered’ every event…even those who drove 15 hours (or more) and missed most of the event , the greedy PC wouldn’t even give them a free ticket. These ‘volunteers’ are nothing more than… (Obligated)… Free.. Slave labor for years and MORE profit because they didn’t pay for them to work for them!

    The jump in ticket price might have been ‘blamed’ on the economy..But that is BS. They say they are a ‘recession proof business’..Remember…lol (Oh they really didn’t mean that either? Not until they need it for an excuse). They know their ‘costs’ way in advance, of how much the venue and the rest of their costs are. It is predictable guaranteed revenue from Standing Order Tickets any tickets sold after that, all tickets are: “BONUS=PROFIT.”

    Remember they are (always) kicking royal butt….” exploding,” so why aren’t the prices dropping, wasn’t that another promise? That’s right they only break promises.

    Once again why the need to raise prices? If their ‘exploding’…and their ‘noble goal’ is to reach people to ‘”change the world”… “ change lives”; by getting them the information and finally..the best and most obvious lie…. to watch them tell: “THEY ARE NOT IN IT FOR THE MONEY”..They really need to make their words and actions congruent; otherwise, it is just another snapshot… of their hypocrisy.

    I feel bad for those going this weekend, who may have very large CC limits or any available balance for that matter…those people are going to walk out of there in a lot more debt than they walked in with and won’t be making any money from the buisness to pay for what they just were convinced to compulsively buy…so sad for the naïve and the rest of the ‘leaders’ whom they will ‘guilt’ into ‘spending, spending, spending! Glad..I think I will go shopping…just thinking about all I will be keeping by not going! LOL

  16. Former Round Table permalink
    January 26, 2012 2:53 pm

    What’s even more grinding is that often the Team does not have to pay for the stadium where they hold the majors!! It started with St. Louis–the Team NEVER paid a dime to rent that stadium. The city made their money on sales at the concessions and the hotel rooms/restaurants in the area.

    I’m not sure what the arrangements are in Columbus, but knowing how cheap Orrin is, there is no way he is paying very much. SO, $125 times 7000 tickets equals $875,000 right in the PC’s pockets, before anyone buys a single CD. I’ve heard that tool sales at seminars are well into the millions of dollars. Yes, we can all see why they had to raise prices.

  17. Finally permalink
    January 26, 2012 4:12 pm

    Edward Jones Dome charged them $1 if they used the local hotels, I know that changed but when it did they stopped booking it. so like everyone said BS!!!! If they got the stadium for free wouldn’t they pass that on to the Team??? Because it is about the information after all isn’t it???????? They are all drunk with their Rock Star status………..More proof of their narcissism They are so pathetic and full of themselves that it is sickening……..Lie’s Lie’s and more lie’s. I looked at the line up and am soooooooooo glad we are out….I bet the talks they give are no different than in 2007, 2008, 09, 10,11………….HAAA

  18. January 26, 2012 4:35 pm

    I agree if you are reading this blog don’t go. Again DOOOON’T GOOOOO…!!!

    You are considered one of the fluff members i.e. a teambot, teammunist, etc. whose cash goes to line up the charlatans’ pockets. That cash pays for the shtuff they boast and show off on.

    At the end of the function some many teambots will spend multiple small and big boat loads of their hard earned cash, and some very few people will collect all those multiple boats of cash into a huge boatload of cash for themselves to walk away with. I am willing to bet you won’t be invited to share in the spoils a major function. Why don’t you keep your boat load with you.

  19. January 26, 2012 4:39 pm

    @No Team For Me permalink
    “The entire function was nothing but a big infomercial to sell tools. So they charged everyone $90 a piece for the right to be given a hard-sell on purchasing tools. What a gig.”

    The most accurate description of a function I have ever heard. Thank you!

  20. January 26, 2012 5:27 pm

    The ticket prices going up because of the economy? What? This is supposed to be a euphemism for what, more money into the mlm kingpins’ pockets, isn’t that the truth? Somebody from team help us understand.

    The prices kept going up over at BWW and not a soul new the hidden why nor that these venues are free and cheap, as we have come to discover. If anything, like “business is growing gang busters” the costs should have been declining, right? I will tell you it’s the sick mlm “industry” standard MO-if BWW kingpins adjust prices up it means they are pulling in more money and I bet other team kingpins want the same bigger pie as well.

    If the economy presented a valid reason for the adjustment then doesn’t that prove these MLM pretend “businesses” are a joke and nothing but a system to milk their adherents? Further, that everything these mlm charlatan shysters will preach/say anything to keep the smoke and mirrors show that mlm is, going on. I mean seriously can an mlm apologist explain to me the disparity that is the hoax a “recession proof business” and ticket prices adjusting upwards due to the economy?

    Next time you hear “recession proof business” remember it’s a hoax.

  21. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 26, 2012 9:47 pm

    Dooly is all in with Life now, some kind of advocate he is.

    “@Tom, I just walked off the plane with Orrin and Lori to get a first hand experience of what TEAM?LIFE is all about, and Orrin is open to a future radio show. By the time the weekend is out I will get a few dates, and forward them to you. Maybe Dallin will fly in and I can get him booked also for you buddy.” Troy Dooly

  22. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 12:04 am

    No doubt orrin is open to a radio show…he thinks he is a Rock Star and wouldn’t pass up a second of attention he could draw to himself, whether fake or not.

    Without a doubt.. Dallin is getting a big chunk of change to speak at the Lie..fers major but is it worth betraying the others..’competitors’…those building the juice company?

    What other reasons would be worth tickin your leaders off besides these 4;..Money, Money, Money, and more Money… would Dallin continue to endorse lief when he is rolling out his own system…and dis the true builders of HIS company that are supporting his family; those loyal builders and promoters of the juice? Who, I don’t doubt have bought a ticket to the MV event and are back home watching the owner support their competitors?

    Orrin has screwed over and backstabbed most if not all of those including all of us, so I am sure they aren’t too happy Dallin is supporting the lie..f system. What an industry it isn’t and thank God..we are gone and money doesn’t blind us or get in the way of true friends that we won’t sell out.

    Doesn’t it always come back to the money, above all else? Dallin should have a clue what message he is sending to; Brig, Merrits, Haugens, Florence, right down to the bottom person; that are promoting the juice. I would think they all feel the slap in the face and eventually you break trust long enough and people either silently or violently (I don’t mean physically but in their minds) they see through it and move on. Respect and loyality are given and earned even for the TOP amount of money will get it sincerely.
    Not to great of an example for the others…but…Like does.. attract Like….and what comes around goes around. 🙂

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 12:11 am

    Hope Tooly has a great time with one of “his servant leaders and mentors”..those in the industry never cease to amaze me at the ‘good for the industry’..I may need to use you…shallow friendships..but maybe they will forge the best buds club… wonder if o…will let him in free…hahahahahaha…Not a chance!

  24. January 27, 2012 9:36 am

    Here’s a photo from inside Nationwide Arena (taken by Jim Martin of TEAM):

    Nationwide Arena TEAM LIFE

    The arena is configured in either 180 or 270 degree seating.

    Here’s a photo from the Round Table meeting last night in Columbus, Ohio (taken by Dan Hawkins):

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 2:03 pm

    KABOOM!!!…Webelieved the truth in that post Rocks!!!!….Amthrax you should post this as another Story…Mark and Raquel Peters definitely got screwed by these dictators!!!! Years of work…I am sure there is way more to this story!!! How about this one…I heard that the Peters and Jamie Fisher were told they were “implicated” because they “associated” with their freaking upline mentors…how is that for some mafia tactics.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 2:08 pm

    Wonder when the dictators will add this to their FAQ page….hmmm?

  27. Enough! permalink
    January 27, 2012 2:13 pm

    Wow! We Believed – every time I think things couldn’t get any worse with the Team I hear another story like this! I’ve been reading this blog for some time and I finally can’t hold back. The truth that is getting out on this blog is just amazing! You are all making a difference. Thanks for helping in my healing process as well.

  28. switch permalink
    January 27, 2012 2:24 pm

    “I wonder how many of those couples are using fake recognition, buying fake system counts under other people’s names who have no interest in the business or are counting teams/numbers taken by PC from other leaders?”

    …or heck, dumping their load of kindling on ebay?

    according to the account info here, there’s six available in Akron, Ohio….

  29. Former Round Table permalink
    January 27, 2012 2:45 pm

    Don’t you all just love all the Facebook posts from the deceived — they are so swept away by all the “widsom” they forgot they heard the same crap just three short months ago.

  30. Finally permalink
    January 27, 2012 3:39 pm

    WOW we believed great stuff. Hawkins is a bonified W O O S Y, pathetic to the core and a wimp to boot. Taking blood money and false recognition……..some leader eh?????? His wife is just as pathetic and sorry. But, not half as sorry as the guy’s that gave him his income and teams……..

    Nice picture from Martin, they should save it because after the walls come tumbling down that is how the stadiums will look…….empty………Oh and according to his team Martin is another welfare recipient…….so is another guy on his team, Tim Jarvinen. Jarvinen has been back to work 3 times and lies about even having the job, according to him he is helping out he company.LOL Another woosy that can’t build a team so he has to take welfare just like Hawkins did……not to mention many many others. Yeah, it is a performance base business though……….They really are sad, but in a way I am so happy about the majors now……here is why…….it will not be too long when it all falls apart that we can quote them from this weekend, especially about this site and others cuz you know they will be mentioning it………

    Orrin on the radio????? Puleeeeeze………WHAT could he offer people?? How to lie cheat and steal in the name of GOD??

  31. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 4:42 pm

    Enough!~ Welcome! I can tell you are at where we were when we first came here! Looking forward to hearing your story! 🙂

    It is time for more to have had ‘enough’ and tell their stories of the corruption, deception, lies, and downright Pirate like tactics that these misleaders do/and have done.

  32. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 4:51 pm


    Wussies…hahaha…good description! LOL

    There are many builders and many others who know the truth and I believe they have a moral obligation to share the unethical and some unlawful things that would prevent others from suffering. Good point on keeping the ‘picture’ of the future empty arena’ because the walls will come crashing down! The deceptive, unfair and torturous things these guys have and continue to do is incomprehensible and these guys act like Pirates!

    No doubt they will be tailoring their ‘speeches’….(I won’t be holding by breath they will tell any truth)… this weekend around Amthrax’s blog. They will have to criticize the ‘outside world’; control the information and try and do damage control. Hope the crowd wakes up and leaves and don’t come back when they spot their BS…buy more, buy more ..wouldn’t that send them a strong message..Dang Amthrax and the site has more ‘influence’ than all the misleaders put together!!

    I am sure they will be spinning the truth so much they will get themselves dizzy to try beat into others to ‘not listen to’ any truth outside of the cult environment because you can count on them keeping their feeds or visiting Amthrax and it is their number 1 focus!! Perhaps the misleaders.. ..will have emergency and secret meeting to ‘brainstorm’ on how they will twist, spin and lie out of the information in Webelieve’s post…or perhaps they will have a cowardly secret meeting to update their ‘faq page?’ lmao.

    Pretty sad and very telling that they have had to add that pile of dung to their ‘Faq’ page…pretty obvious they are trying but failed at ‘damage control’ because it is glaringly obvious to the world that is all that is, and only raises more questions. People aren’t stupid and can figure out their game on that Seriously…What ‘professional’ company tries to cover their corruption up on a FAQ page?

    How much lower can these guys go? Must not have hit rock bottom… yet…Just when you think they can’t get any Lower….These guys keep going lower, lower, and lower…. These guys could not tell the whole truth without spinning…if their souls depended on it!

  33. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 27, 2012 5:52 pm

    Thanks for sharing the story of the WI TEAM. Its just totally sickening stuff! I knew when I left TEAM that they were a bunch of scum bags, but I had no idea the depth of everything only being in 8 months. I am thankful for this blog everyday of my life (not LIEf). Without it I know I would be in Ohio right now, or at home depressed that I wasn’t there and down on myself that I wasn’t a real leader. Instead I am having a great Friday night with friends and saving $250 (conservatively). The best part is I don’t have to buy these friends at all 🙂

    These are my experiences with TEAM. God Bless.

  34. Team Liberation Front permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:05 pm

    This web of deceit is so convoluted! This guys are all fakers! When is the last time someone actually built this business the old fashion way? Now it’s just become a group of suck ups scamming people who really just want hope and to believe in something great. They tell all these poor souls that this is there chance, convince them they can accomplish there goals and dreams here. Just never quit, listen to your upline, listen to CDs, read books, do more get better, and never miss a meeting you qualify for. They have no problem telling you to miss important times of your children’s lives or skip weddings, funerals, etc… Then 5 years later these people who just wanted hope and thought they were called to greatness in this business are now flat broke, in debt up to there eyeballs, claiming bankruptcy (duplication) and they are still counseled to stay on system. I know of people who have lost everything and when they go to there upline broken and searching for wisdom, the advice they’re given is “stay on system, work harder, and those who stay will be champions. The sad thing is a lot of these people are so immeresed in the system they never even stop to think whether or not their “mentor” actually is looking out for their best interest. They don’t realize they are self serving hypocrites! Just keep doin what you’re doin….you’ll get there….NOT. What’s the Einstein quote they always use? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. Maybe the sales force for Orrin ought to apply this to team rather then their jobs.

  35. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:09 pm

    @Team Liberation Front….now you know and understand the inner workings of the industry. Glad to hear from you and have you aboard. Great comments!

  36. Freedomhaha permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:10 pm

    Debt and bankruptcy is duplication in TEAM even to the top of pyramid! See: Cullens, Hubers, Joe Darkangelo

  37. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:11 pm

    @Webelieved, you are writing some scathing posts, great stuff amigo.

  38. Team Liberation Front permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:36 pm

    I’ve been out for awhile, I can just no longer sit silently. I’ve been a fan here for quite some time!

  39. Team Liberation Front permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:37 pm

    Thanks TruthSeeker! It’s great to be here.

  40. Finally permalink
    January 27, 2012 6:55 pm

    Great stuff!!!! We mustn’t insult the Mafia too much, these guy’s are wayyyyy too wimpy for that LOL although they do operate like thugs. They claim to be the authority on EVERYTHING yet they really haven’t accomplished anything outside of their own scam. They all try to criticize anyone with an opposing idea to theirs yet they have no credible following outside their own team. They always try and say Orrin is soooooo smart……REALLY? How smart is he to do what he has done, left the paper trail and recordings to back up any and all allegations against him and continue to do so.

    To Orrin, you better read this for yourself, the site I mean. You will need this stuff one day……..for what you ask? Q was a cake walk…………

  41. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 7:02 pm


    Q was a cake walk…..hahaha 🙂

  42. switch permalink
    January 27, 2012 7:11 pm

    Ho-ly shit…..I’m not even sure what to say after that, webelieved. 😯

    Let me absorb this….and go grab a beer.

  43. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 7:17 pm

    Team Liberation…I second that..great comments!

    Webelieved…this is burning up the blog! These actions are criminal to me with all their so called mentorship and leadership. These guys are the farthest thing from any leadership unless you are looking at it from an angle of tyrannts and dictators. What these guys have done to numerous leaders…not to mention the multiple thousands and thousands that have bought into the bogus financial freedom, passive residual income, and you will get ‘all your time back’….all of it is flat out bold faced lies and deceptive tactics.

  44. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 7:20 pm

    Finally~ That is why I am referring more to the Pirate activity!! 🙂 It is plain and simple tyranny. They strip you of your every freedom!

  45. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 27, 2012 7:35 pm

    Pretty crazy eh… Switch…LOL. 🙂

  46. Over and Out permalink
    January 27, 2012 8:45 pm

    Dang! I knew it was bad, but I had no idea it was this bad! Although I can’t say I am to surprised. We were involved for only a couple years and left right before the switch to Life. We knew it was the right decision when we left, no question about it! Since then we have been following this blog, Thank you all for sharing your stories! Webelieved~ Keep it coming!

  47. switch permalink
    January 27, 2012 8:59 pm

    “Switch- Are you ok? lol!”


  48. Over and Out permalink
    January 27, 2012 9:45 pm

    No. nothing specifically. I just find it all very interesting. I remember being some what new when the Hawkins jumped from Ruby to Diamond practically overnight and it seemed impossible. Maybe it wasn’t ruby but it wasn’t to far off. Then I know my upline kept coming so close to PC, and every major we thought they had it then it fell through. The next thing we know the Hawkins were going to hit it. I could be way off base here but I really feel that even though our upline is following these so called leaders that they would never do anything shady. Or at least that shady. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking I don’t know. But I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt even though they are caught up in all this they are still good, decent people. But my point, finally, is this…. the Hawkins seemed to have came from no where to PC, at least in my eyes where my upline was right there running for it for and close to it for a long time and still hasn’t made it. And for months I wondered if their was something more going on in the inside with the Hawkins other than the ethical way of the business and this just proves it. I no longer no what to believe is real on team anymore or who is real, but I really like to think that the reason my upline hasn’t made it is because they wouldn’t stoop to that level. And they are trying to get it done by actually doing the work. I no longer communicate with these people, or anyone for that matter. We made it clear that we would not be coming back and The second we quit it’s like we were deleted from there phones or something. But I mean, they have there teams to keep building, or replacing. What you said about leaving young children at home night after night is sad. People do this for years after years and miss so much precious time. And the team makes that out to be ok because it will be worth it. It will never be worth it. Nothing money can buy is worth missing your child’s life! Especially when they can take it all away from you in a second and all that sacrifice was done for nothing. A job today is more secure than a round table is on team, that is for sure.

  49. Dorothy permalink
    January 27, 2012 10:25 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  50. Dorothy permalink
    January 27, 2012 10:45 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  51. Enough! permalink
    January 28, 2012 5:37 am

    Amazing how the big ex-leaders from team were from many different groups but their stories are so eerily similar. It also seems to be a trend that many have had to go through physical problems because of the stress. I can certainly relate to that, even though I never had that big of a business or had quit my job. My heart goes out to all of them.

  52. Finally permalink
    January 28, 2012 5:49 am

    Orrin banked on the fact that no one would ever come out with the truth and that if they did he could easily de bunk any thing anyone said because, after all, he is Orrin……..So smart, no one could ever possibly have anything to offer anyone because after all, they are not Orrin, all of the leaders that ever quit are full of envy and jealousy, because after all they are not Orrin. All of the quitters and just that and anything they say they could not possibly understand why Orrin did what he did because after all, they are not Orrin. People claim they got stolen from but they just didn’t want to do the work, because after all, they are not Orrin. Everyone on here is crazy and stupid because, after all, we are not, Orrin………..

    I for one am thankful for not being Orrin, what would be worse than not having all of the material things is having them and then having them taken away………..along with my ability to take a walk………..

  53. switch permalink
    January 28, 2012 6:54 am

    Do the they have proof of all these threats that were made?

  54. switch permalink
    January 28, 2012 7:09 am

    Welcome to the blog, “Enough” and “Over and Out”.

  55. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    January 28, 2012 9:46 am

    I just have to say, reading some of this brings back so many memories and the same type of patterns in other non-related teams. A couple things from the group I was involved with:

    1. We were not allowed to register anyone in our MV and/or TEAM ourselves. I found out my upline kept my passwords for both websites because I changed the passwords as soon as they gave me my account info. They went to sign into my accounts and emailed me to say they must have mis-placed my passwords and I needed to give them my passwords. Hello – huge red flag. One of the basics in life is you NEVER share your password to your accounts. I actually had to temporarily change my password so they could get in to register someone under me (who was a stranger to me). They didn’t like it when I told other people who were having issues with point #2 to change their passwords and showed them where/how to change it.

    2. After the above snafu, I was told that it was just way too difficult to register people so only the leaders were trained on how to properly register people. They continued to say how easy it is to mess it up and how difficult it is to get it corrected that they just needed to do it. I thought to myself – my upline are not smart people. Just talking to them in general, they are not that intelligent. No offense but in the category of smarticles I would be much higher on the list than they are. I can see where they do have some people in their group where this process would be a concern, but not for 90% of them. After talking with some other folks in the group, I quickly realized why they needed to register people. They needed to register in the order of their choosing – for example, if they had someone they were sponsoring, they needed to get that person in before you got your person in so their person would have people under them already. They also were the ones who then got to decide when you could start your second leg. They could promise you it was the next person you sponsored, but in reality it was whenever they reached the next level and/or their next goal was met. Your second leg didn’t matter one iota to them.

    3. My upline also mentor directly with George. These people are not very smart. They would actually come back and tell us how George told them how they should manipulate this person or that person. Of course they didn’t use the word manipulate, but they would tell us that even George and Jill are stumped on how to get this one lady signed up. They keep working her but she just won’t bite.

    4. My upline was fired or laid off or quit (never got a clear answer on that one – or it would depend on who you talked to). The wife continues to work, but he is “job optional” according to their bio and what they tell prospects. In reality, he works side jobs and basically does dumpster diving to limp along.What they don’t tell people is that they are not only free loading off the government, have members of their team buying their tools for house plans (i.e. the big flip chart, banners, etc). They boast that they share rooms during the major conventions, but in reality the others that they share with are paying for the room. “To save their team members money”, they coordinate pot lucks for the conventions and bring nothing themselves. They encourage others to buy extra tickets and then take them off their hands (use them for themselves). They have multiple monetary judgments against them. Every time their phones or internet are disconnected, it’s the companies’ fault, not their own for not paying the bill.

    5. They didn’t stop there – they actually would coordinate bulk orders, require the people to pay up front, then never give them the product when it came in. They would even scam people by giving them a ticket for the monthly seminar (even though the person said they probably couldn’t go) saying they would pick it up from them if they truly couldn’t make it and then conveniently not be available to pick it up. After the seminar, they would go back to that person and demand the money for the ticket. These people actually told me I was the bad person because THEY bounced a check to me when I demanded to get paid back and I “had the gall” to confront them about it. It took me almost six months to get the check in the first place. I guess I was suppose to feel sorry for them and just tell them to forget about the money.

    It’s sad to see people like this prey on other people. I don’t think they started out being bad people. I think they started as desperate people so desperate they listened to the lies and pretty soon they were sucked in to the TEAM culture. If they were outside of the TEAM culture I think they would be appalled at the kind of people they have become. The more people criticize them, the more driven they are to prove them wrong and the harder they strive to build their business. All of a sudden something that they would have considered unethical before becomes okay this one time and after the first time, it’s easier to do. All of a sudden it’s common practice and the next level of unethical behavior becomes justified as a means to your end result or you tell yourself “once I get to x level, reach x goal, I’ll stop”, but there is no stopping.

  56. switch permalink
    January 28, 2012 2:23 pm

    From my understanding these text messages/threats were just recent?

  57. switch permalink
    January 28, 2012 8:24 pm

    Wow…thank you for that. I’m still speechless about these details and still letting it all sink in. I hope that they have enough real friends to talk with. Sounds like you’re doing a fine job with it though.

    But, holy crap… talk about a major screw job. Why on earth would someone come forward with such details as this? My lord, no wonder they bailed….they didn’t want anything to do with the soap opra of team anymore. But they refer us to a classic “tabloid”???? WOW!

    So, orrin talked about doing the “honorable” thing way back when last year and going to the company…. he knows plain as day what happened here but he talks about how he would do the “honorable” thing of course, along with giving himself the credit.

    Tell me again team of destiny, team, team mona vie, LIEF….whatever the F your name is, now….what’s so “honorable” about this situation/story?

  58. January 28, 2012 8:44 pm

    Check out this tweet from Jim Martin:

    Thousands in attendance @ Columbus for the Team Life Convention getting the info to expand across North America You need to be here in April

    The more things “change” the more they stay the same. They can’t even finish this weekend’s conference without promoting the next one.

  59. January 28, 2012 8:49 pm

    Here’s some photos from the Columbus Leadership:

    Leadership meeting before conference:

  60. Finally permalink
    January 29, 2012 5:11 am

    In business for 19 years, he claims to be the top guru in MLM and he still can’t fill the stadium…….not even close……..I thought lief was the ticket? The way to bring America back to it’s roots? Martin is so pathetic at being a puppet……why would someone need to be there e in April?? So they can spend more good money on the same old Rhetoric? The same old speakers, saying the same old thing? Do they really believe this crap? Yep they do and they are soooooo desperate because of the pay cut. Sad thing is Maritn probably made more as a plumber than he does right now……….talk about pay cut’s!!!

  61. January 29, 2012 5:58 am

    Martin is a joke. He botched it big time 3 Majors ago, the last one I went to. They were announcing Hawaii Blue Diamond (I think) winners and he called the WRONG names!!
    He looked like a fool up there and couldn’t even recover gracefully. He named the Newtons as winners, but somehow misread the sheet he had and it really went to the Pauls (I think).

    Oh brother…

  62. not signed up yet permalink
    January 29, 2012 6:45 am

    TEAM/LIFES problem is that they are not a leadership organization that they claim to be. I was sold on that concept and when a started attending opens, even though they talk about leadership, they talk about team and getting people to opens majors and getting the books cds and MV and the tools.

    I learned more leadership skills in the military and at church than I ever did from a team meeting. And that leadership training didnt cost me a dime…actually the military and the the tax payers paid me! Pretty nice.

    Also notice at the leadership convention that its always the same 7 people…Woodwards, marks, Brady’s, Hawkins….no body new a the top…could it be that there truly is no room at the top in this group.

  63. switch permalink
    January 29, 2012 7:27 am

    Exactly. All those specific details just aren’t made up….who in their right mind would do so? Nobody. It’s all unfolding….and they know it.

    What the hell did they expect, for these people who got bit just to go on their merry way??? Yeah…good luck with that, team. These people stood up for what was right, for god sakes, instead of preying on other people for their hard earned cash and doing these half assed cover ups to get that next buck. Who would’ve thought that standing up for what was right, was the exact opposite of team approach? I’m guessing the newbie has no clue.

  64. January 29, 2012 8:22 am

    The Nationwide Arena in Columbus, Ohio, can fit up to 20,000 people when the stadium. The arena looks to be configured in a 180 or 270 degree configuration, which limits the total possible number of people.

    It would be nice to have a breakdown on the number of “new” people versus long-time TEAM members.

  65. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 9:50 am


    Here is Orrin’s latest tweet~ “Filled stadium in Columbus, then flew to California for just under 1500 more! LIFE is Great!”

    What a Joke…”Filled stadium?”….Must need stronger is strettttcccching the truth a bit.. don’t ya think? But then that is the name of the game and is the MO of the MLM. Half-truths, Hype, Lies, and Deception.

    It looks far from ‘filled.’ I can see Nothing has changed, EXCEPT looks like their numbers have drastically dropped, off like the plague has hit; from the 15-20,000 before?

    The picture of the RT meeting is a JOKE! What happened to all those RT’s orrin continually brags about breaking? I recall they said 15 and one major and how many more another time?.. Can’t remember the other hyped up (lie) number was. Why they should have had to have a way bigger room with that many breaking. Where did all those RT’s go?…More Faked recognition and lowered bar to try and deceive others? What about the 4000 NEW people who joined LIEf..the best growth ever? At that rate of ‘growth’… Hahaha….then the stadium Should be ‘filled’!

    And if this a “LIFE” major and the “TEAM” is a ‘completely seperate business’..Then…Do they have a ‘seperate’ major for Team? Perhaps, I shouldn’t give them any ‘ideas’! NO…because it is only ‘seperate’ on paper to cover their arses!

    Hey Team office.. What is the REAL numbers of tickets sold?…No need for hype and deception.. you know what they are, show the ‘data’. Why don’t you just post it, all over the web with all your google gaming or on the front of the website for all to see? Since you orrin likes to stretch (lie) the truth, and brag about all his fake awards, then back it up with some ‘real’ truth!

    Hmm…Nothing’s changed..the deception continues…I do feel bad for those suckers who just dropped $500 a person to be told; “We are making a difference..changing lives…BS”.. Really? How’s that..when all you do in the buisness is meeting hop.. open, seminar, major, call session, paper work, ‘special meetings after the meetings’…

    How in this world is that ‘making a difference’ when alls anyone does is hop from meeting to meeting…sucking up all your time and money…You don’t even have time to spend quanity time with your family let alone actually ‘make a difference’ in society for humanity? And everyone is suppose to get rid of their loser bosses and jobs..such as teachers, doctors, fireman, policemen, social workers etc.. where you really were “Making a Difference?” I wish people would THINK!

    The ONLY Difference…is from all those people.. into the bank accounts of the 7 PC out of how many did they ‘blow’ the numbers up too @ this one?

  66. das permalink
    January 29, 2012 10:27 am

    You know, it’s hard for me to feel sorry for anyone, myself included for being deceived. It was my choice and was a very valuable learning experience. Would any of you go back to Team if they made everything right with you? I mean come on, MV is a scam as stated in a MV memo that was posted in the “Salt Lake Tribune” article: The suit also uncovered an internal MonaVie memo by Ralph Carson, the company’s chief science officer, who created the original juice. The memo was in response to raised eyebrows about claims being made about the juice. Carson cautioned that the drink was “expensive flavored water. Any claims made are purely hypothetical, unsubstantiated and, quite frankly, bogus,”

    And now Life? Give me a break! What bigger recruiting scam is there? Would getting to spend time with Orrin change my mind to attend this major convention? Only if I could spend time with him inside the octagon so I could choke him out, lmao.

    The Team is creating “Leaders” eh? So who are all these leaders going to lead? I believe they will lead the 99 percent of the minions who are losing money, that’s it.

    In my opinion, there are no greater scams than those centered around TOD, Team, MV, and Life. They are masters at deceiving. It was worth every dollar I spent and the three years of my life to get where I am at today. I pity the poor fool who contacts me or my family about any MLM recruiting scam.

    I know the truth of the deception has to come out, but to feel bad for anyone who didn’t get treated right by Orrin and the PC is like feeling bad for those of the James gang who didn’t get their cut of the money from the bank robberies of Jessie James. Just my humble opinion…

  67. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 10:30 am


    I agree no one would make up all those details and they know’s admitting it that is when the details get made up!


    Thanks for sharing the Peters story. It is a shame and disturbing the abuse of these so called ‘guru’s and (mis) leading fakers. It is not ‘rocket science’ to understand just how corrupt these deceivers are by the details and abuse they have suffered. I feel for Mark and Raquel Peters for all the ‘abuse’ these vicious conmen and women have perpetrated on their family and thousands of others! I hope others have the courage and ‘wake up’ to see the true character of these charlatan’s and how they behave behind the scenes. It is glaringly obvious the lack of character, the sick and twisted games and threats they will stoop to to try and ‘bully’ their way to MORE money for the very selfish and sick few! I hope a very large attorney firm, the FTC, the DOJ and many more comsumer protection agencies are reading this site and DO SOMETHING to investigate and make them crack open the books. A whole task force needs to crack down on these ruthless scumbags!

  68. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 10:47 am

    Problem Solving and Solution; This is to all it may concern..

    I am going to ‘patent’ my new glasses idea and sell them outside the LIE..f majors and a ‘special offer’ to those on Amthrax…haha!

    I will be a Mill..ion…aire cuz I am an entrepreneur and free enterprise (r)..!! They are called..”BS- Deception Eliminators- Clarity and Truth Finders ®” …Hahaha!!! I am going to Be RICH!! Only…$99.99 retail value… Priceless!!… And Right Now ONLY; for the next half hour.. You can get 2 for $99.99…Can you ‘imagine’?… 2 for the price of 1?.. For you AND your spouse!!

    Don’t wait get your glasses now, you don’t want to pass up this, deal of a lifetime! Just call 1-800-NO-More-Lies…ext. Get yours NOW!!

    Brand New idea with 18 different patents and numerous bench marking ‘studies’! 🙂

  69. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 10:53 am

    Oh forgot the most important…Backed by a no questions asked Money Back Quarantee..To get your refund you must call to cancell your autoship within 30 days or (fine print you will be charged $1099 for the rest of your lief):

    Just dial…1-800-the Top 7 PC for a full refund!..hahaha

  70. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 11:21 am


    I don’t believe it is a choice to be deceived, the lessons learned are valuable..agreed and don’t believe it is about self-pity. Everyone was promised passive residual bs.. and believed it was a legitimate buisness but after years of time away from their families and bringing the revenue to Orrin, had it stolen and found out differently. I believe Orrin should pay restitution.Or anyone who is scammed shouldn’t get back what was stolen from any con artist? Should Bernie Madoffs victims not get their invested money back or the millions in America and around the world who have been deceived and scammed either? I believe Orrin owes everyone. Just my humble opinion.

  71. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 12:07 pm

    I believe and know personally for me, it is about Justice, expose, educating for awareness and should be about restitution… and don’t believe it is about pity. This is a scam of a huge magnitude and is and continues to decieve multitudes… and the TOP 7 or 8 knows this and works it to the hilt!! They are lying, deceiving and ‘selling’ false hope to the masses that they KNOW will never get what they PROMISE..but keeps that a guarded little secret for the top only with their deceptive cult tactics. Yes everyone has their responsiblity for participating but those who found out the truth..stopped participating when they found out the truth.

    I also know they have been called out on this by some very credible people and have ‘tried’ to justify it by lying to them and themselves by saying it is right and honorable because ‘just look at how many we are helping’…wtf..and who are they helping? The TOP PC only. The end certainly ‘justifies’ the means in there corrupted greedy minds and that is why they are cons…because it is strategic and calculated.. they know what they are doing to the masses but won’t tell them the truth; but then there wouldn’t be deception involved..nor would there be need for all the stories books or websites.. if they told the truth!

    I have NEVER in well over a decade ever heard them ‘teach’ in any meeting whether it be turbo, RT or the masses (all are deceived) that 96% of YOU in the audience will never make enough profit to even pay for your autoships and the less than 1% (PC) are the only ones ever going to get ‘wealthy and it will to get there you will need to get special deals!’ They have NEVER ‘taught’ or broke down the ‘comp plan’ to share that truth.. and have had thousands and thousands of opportunities (meetings to teach this)…NOPE they distract, divert, and delude and do anything to keep your eyes off the ‘facts’ and onto the false ‘hope and dreams’.. from anyone questioning and they handle any objection that comes their way with lies and deception or with ‘are you going to let that stop you from getting your dream?’ And if you question…oh boy better be prepared for the ‘backlash’ that is guaranteed to come your way. That and other stop thinking techniques are used on everyone to manipulate and decieve.

  72. Speak Your Truth permalink
    January 29, 2012 1:28 pm

    Where did that one-liner come from…How to Win and Influence People? I don’t recall that being in that book..hahaha.. Wow I wonder how the crowd of poor souls feel about him calling them sour grapes?

  73. Dorothy permalink
    January 29, 2012 2:09 pm

    This commenter requested that her comments be removed from this site.

  74. January 29, 2012 2:55 pm

    Anyone know if Dallin Larsen made an appearance at the TEAM LIFE Winter Leadership Convention this weekend in Columbus or Visalia? Was there any mention of MonaVie?

  75. January 29, 2012 3:07 pm

    Unless Dallin flew to Columbus/Visalia on Friday or Sunday, I don’t think he made an in-person appearance at the TEAM LIFE Winter Leadership Conventions. Here’s a photo of Dallin from Vancouver:

    Dallin Larsen

    The question now is, did he do a webcast or was he just not present at all?

  76. ExAmbot permalink
    January 29, 2012 11:59 pm

    This has been quite some … reveal. I don’t know these people but the conduct of the ahem…”leaders” is disgustingly evil but not expected in this loathsome pretend “industry.”

    Let this serve as a warning to all other MLMbots who thinks they are in their own business because they have bought into that lie.

  77. not signed up yet permalink
    January 31, 2012 12:39 pm

    Wow. Same 7 speakers, same convention hall. same rah rah message, same pitch for tools, books Cds and the next seminar…which will the the best ever.

    seems like if you go to one of these things you pretty much have been to all of them. seems like a Tuesday night open on a bigger scale.

  78. Robin permalink
    January 31, 2012 7:14 pm

    @Mattjer22: “Martin is a joke. He botched it big time 3 Majors ago, the last one I went to. They were announcing Hawaii Blue Diamond (I think) winners and he called the WRONG names!!
    He looked like a fool up there and couldn’t even recover gracefully. He named the Newtons as winners, but somehow misread the sheet he had and it really went to the Pauls (I think).”

    Thats funny. We have been out about 3 years and at that time we were in the Paul’s I thought had reached that level. I know how they did it now. By stealing teams. After they stoled ours and our uplines we talked to a few other big leaders in our team just after finding this site and found out why they “really” disappeared. The Paul’s did the same to them and much more. Glad to see they keep getting recognized as the leaders they are. NOT. I hope I see the day they get what they have coming. A time of reckoning for all the wrong they have done and still do in the guise of being a Christian. Makes me want to puke the he is an elder at a church. That is one church I will never enter. That is like giving Judas and elder position. Just sayin

  79. Robin permalink
    January 31, 2012 7:16 pm

    Woohooo!!!! that felt good. Sorry for ranting.

  80. Over and Out permalink
    January 31, 2012 8:05 pm

    The Paul’s do not attend that church anymore, which goes without saying he is no longer and elder there.

  81. Over and Out permalink
    January 31, 2012 8:52 pm

    I can’t really say exactly. For one, I don’t know the exact reason they are gone, one can only assume. It has been a few months now though. And secondly there are very few people left that attend that church that have anything to do with TEAM. As for details, hopefully soon the time will be right to share. But as of right now it will have to wait.

  82. das permalink
    February 1, 2012 1:08 am

    How about Neal Ruffner? Is he still at Berean? Does he have a conscience? Come on…spill your guts with us Neal. It’s very liberating.

  83. February 1, 2012 6:16 am

    The Pauls left because they had to make a choice between team and church and they chose the team. It would not surprise me to see the pauls get rewarded for leaving with a spot as the new PC member. Just move a couple hundred teams away from other people and give them to the Pauls. It’s as easy as that.

    Huber – Got disciplined out so he had no choice. He did not get disciplined for anything to do with team. The kids at the church are now safe. However, he did take some super small fry, bottom of the pyramid famillies with him (goldens, wrathalls, longlois, and a couple others). How sick is it that those fam’s are following Mark Huber after knowing what he did?????

    Ruffners – Still there living the dream 8 years into the 2-5 year plan.

  84. Over and Out permalink
    February 1, 2012 7:03 am

    Team Deception- Love your wording, the kids are now safe! I still feel sick when I think about that situation. So very disturbing how people can continue to follow that. Also the Lewis’s left and the Speiwaks as well. And just like the Hubers, they took a few families with them that are hardly even turbos! I always finding it so interesting that what Team says they are doing is creating leaders, but it seems to me like they are creating followers.

  85. Over and Out permalink
    February 1, 2012 7:12 am

    Oh and the Cullens, the Gowens and I am sure there is more………

  86. littledufflebagboy permalink
    February 1, 2012 7:21 am

    what did mark huber do?

  87. February 1, 2012 7:41 am

    @littledufflebagboy and all – We’re not going to discuss the issue with the Hubers. It’s serious enough that I’ll moderate any comment that mentions details of the allegations. If at any point the information becomes public (i.e as a result of a court filing like with their bankruptcies), we can discuss this. For now, best to leave this particular story out of this site.

    Please understand and comply with this request, everyone.

  88. February 1, 2012 9:34 am

    “What Team says they are doing is creating leaders, but it seems to me like they are creating followers” over and put. I Agree.

    “my back hurts from supporting this giant pyramid that I am always carrying around but I will continue to make it easier for those at the top and I know I will make it someday”-99.6ers.


    can anyone verify if tom ascol (pastor in florida) has joined the scheme? he is one of the new pastors along with steve camp that marks and woodward are trying to manipulate.

  89. February 1, 2012 9:45 am

    Some people in this life changing video. jim martin is broke. birttles filed for bk. and everyone elses life sucked to the point that a couple books and a long speach totally changed their lives.

  90. Former Round Table permalink
    February 1, 2012 10:00 am

    Holy crap! I am gagging right now.

  91. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 1, 2012 10:04 am

    Some quotes from the movie:

    “It has been proven again and again” – Sure has been proved that 95% of people lose money in this. Thanks Brent!

    “Materials of this nature are usually extremely expensive, that’s not what we wanted”- Sorry, this one is tough to stop laughing about. See Amthrax Top 50 book list post.

    “Help enough people get what they want, and you will get what you want”- Help enough people start, make money from them. This quote is true if what 95% of your downline wants is to lose money.

    “With little or no credibility, we were not considered leaders in any part of our life”- So following two guys that rigged the system to become NY Times “Bestsellers” in order to gain credibility is the right thing to do? Also, see posts on the leadership rankings if you really want a laugh.

    I had to stop after that. Couldn’t risk hearing any more garage from those liars! After all garbage in garbage out. I know that the regulars will just nod and move on from this post because they know the truth, but I hope this finds the eyes of a new person, or someone looking at the “business”. If you want to join a real community you found one on here. In fact it is amazing how much Amthrax community lives out what the TEAM only says they will do.

    God bless.

    All these were my experiences with the TEAM scam.

  92. switch permalink
    February 1, 2012 11:26 am

    Sorry team, but those who have left, will in fact become champions.

  93. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 1, 2012 12:26 pm

    Right on Switch! We are all champions. Especially We Believed. After that can of woop-ass he/she opened up yesterday!! Damn that was sweet! We’re all champions whenever one of us speaks some more truth that pisses off the mis-leaders of Team.

  94. Finally permalink
    February 1, 2012 1:09 pm

    Wow Terri Brady actually said this is perfomanced based?????????? HAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    They know no boundaries, none, they all lied every time they opened their mouth. What exactly is life changing info anyway? Oh i Know Team is a lie, that is for sure life changing.
    How can guzzardo spew after he got foreclosed on on his property ? They have zero character and integrity……….

  95. February 1, 2012 4:09 pm

    What does Orrin say at the end of the video? “We don’t promise easy, but we promise ???” I could make out the last word.

  96. Finally permalink
    February 1, 2012 5:04 pm

    He says “worth it”

  97. February 1, 2012 5:10 pm

    @Finally – Thanks. I thought that he said, “We promise it’s work,” which would have been a nice Freudian slip.

  98. February 1, 2012 5:47 pm

    Here’s a more detailed photo of the Nationwide Arena this weekend. Photo taken from Matt Mielke. Click on the image to see it bigger.

    Perhaps people who’s been to these conventions in the past can say whether or not there’s more or less people than before.

  99. Over and Out permalink
    February 1, 2012 6:52 pm

    The last one we went to was last July-ish, (can’t remember exactly). There is definitely not more people! I would say close to the same amount if not less?!?! My opinion anyway. I feel like they mess with the seating too, to make the number appear larger. In this same arena we had no where to sit at all about a year ago! They had sectioned off seats that were not filled just for the effect I guess.
    That video seriously made me feel sick. It is disgusting to think about how much respect I used to have for those people. And what makes it worse is knowing how many people still look at them in that same way! ugh! On a side note though….. The camera really does add ten pounds! And Brady still needs a hair cut! Sorry, it had to be said.

  100. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 1, 2012 8:01 pm

    My last major was July as well and I would say about the same or some less. I think its to be expected they would maintain at least for a couple months with the LIEf hype. With the momentum that is being built on here I can almost hear the final crash of TEAM. However, I don’t want to get cocky yet we have more people to show the plan.. err um the truth too.

  101. Robin permalink
    February 1, 2012 8:26 pm

    Well just watched that video and threw up my dinner. Talk about lies. Hey George, love how you said you’ve seen these things come to town before. Try its come around four times! Hey short bus, it didn’t work the first time around. Terri, you are NOT paid on performance and you know that. I told you what happened to us. You are paid on whose teams you stole. Tim, SHUT UP. Orrin you are shameless. If you can stay home with your kids and build such a wealth filled business then can anyone of you tell me why your top leaders have filed for bankruptcy and foreclosure? Why they went back to work? cricket, cricket.
    To think I truly respected these people and followed and did everything they told me to do. Sad, very sad. I truly liked these people. And then the blinders came off and I saw what they really were like. I guess that is why it hurt so much in the beinning. Because I truly cared about them and thought they cared about me.

  102. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 1, 2012 9:26 pm

    What a great page! If not for this page & a few others that exposed Monavie / TEAM / LIFE I could’ve easily fallen farther into things than I did… & thankfully, it wasn’t very far. My story echoes what so many have said already, so in many aspects it’s just yet another testament from someone who smelled a rat. 🙂 My first experience with this all was about a year & a half ago when I reconnected with a high school friend that I hadn’t seen in almost 25 years. Once we’d gotten back in touch a bit he introduced Monavie to myself, my wife (fiance’ @ that time), & our nieces. We tried samples, listened to his presentation, but it was all way over my head, the things he explained. The initial red flag was the cost of the product, the second was a much needed customer base. When I explained that I’d think on it & later told him I didn’t think it was for me, he was very cool with my decision, & that was it….. until, TEAM. I found out about that from him very shortly before my wedding day. He was the best man in my wedding, & I remember him talking to quite a few @ our reception telling people how big this was. My wife & I agreed once again to let him explain what he had, & a few different times we opened our house for friends of friends to hear his presentation. Again, I found myself scratching my head & wondering how Monavie & now TEAM could possibly be successful. I brought up many questions, to which it seems he had logical answers, yet I still had that gnawing feeling that something was out of place. This past Fall, he approached us yet again, more excited than he’d ever been. This time it was about the launch of LIFE. So, once again we opened our house to a presentation. This time for him & Dan Hawkins to present how it all worked. By this time between TEAM & LIFE I had sat in on 4 or 5 presentations, & still didn’t see how this could possibly work, & work as fool proof as they said. I raised the following questions @ the LIFE launch meeting….

    — what happens if you don’t know a lot of people to build your leg? My answer was to approach anyone & explain the program. Sorry, but I’m not a pushy person, & rather reserved by nature.

    — what happens if those under you drop out? My answer was that others joining from the legs of others off yours would compensate any loss. He said I could easily make 6 figures a year in a years time if I really took off with this. I lifted an eyebrow.

    — what exact are we selling? My answer was information, knowledge, & a program that works in building the 8 F’s. I got to thinking how I can get that same knowledge & share that same stuff with fellow church parishioners, family, & FREE advice from well known columnists, doctors, etc.

    By now, I was becoming extremely skeptical. My friend said that it would all make sense in time & that I needed to listen to the audio, watch the video, & read the book. I asked my wife if it made sense to her, & she said it did, but there were still too many questions. The final episode that was the icing on the cake was when we hosted a webcast @ our house, & our friend had to pay $50 just to access it. What??? As a TEAM / LIFE leader that sort of thing should be very low cost, or free!! After the webcast & everyone had gone home I asked my wife what she got out of it, & she said virtually nothing.. that it was the same as the CD’s, DVD’s, & the book… the founders patting each other on the back, & explaining the same things over & over again. That next day I did a Google search on TEAM / LIFE scam, & couldn’t believe the dozens of hits that came back! I showed my wife & told her that we we’re done right then & there with this. On Facebook, I posted a status that said info on bettering our lives, faith, finances, etc. is readily available to us for free, & that we look no farther than the Bible, church, family, etc. My friend read this, & spiritual warfare began. He said that he was done trying to explain himself & that if I wanted to throw away a good thing that it was my choice, but that I should question the teachings of my church, & if they indeed are teaching from the Bible, or format, & that the media was evil, & how he was shocked I’d chosen to read & believe comments from people I didn’t know / had never met, & not believe the experience & advice from a friend. I retaliated & told him how dare he question my church & what they teach, & that his lengthy comments were way out of line. After a couple more posts by him, & called him, & said to knock it off, that this is over, we are DONE with the debate over TEAM / LIFE. A couple of hours later I get a call from him in a fit of rage telling me that he’s going to sue me, & that he’s printed all my Facebook posts for his lawyer & the higher ups @ TEAM / LIFE to see. He said I completely rubbed his face in the mud in front of all my Facebook friends, told me that about 20 others were on to my immature antics, & that I should quit while I was ahead. I was told I was a bad father, a bad husband, & that the reason I got fired from my job was because of my pessimistic attitude, & that I’m lazy & a disgrace to my family because I’m collecting unemployment, that I took our friendship & crapped on it, betraying him over false media accusations from people (specifically Oprah, Dr. Oz, & Forbes) that didn’t know a thing about the company, & betraying those in my leg, & that he wasted all his time, $$$, gas, & efforts on me, & that this would come back to haunt me one day. I couldn’t get a word in edge-wise before he hung up on me. After about an hour, I tried calling back, & when he answered he said if I ever called again he’d call the police. A couple of days later my wife wrote him, & tried to explain that I had just as much of a right to NOT believe in the system as he did to believe in it. She asked if this was worth tossing 25 years of friendship out the window. He replied back saying that he was washing his hands of us because he did not need negatives holding him back from the wonderful things he was accomplishing, & said he would have to decline the offer to be our unborn daughter’s God father (we’d asked him about 6 months ago). Needless to say I’m disappointed & hurt, but I continue to pray for him & the thousands of others caught up in this. With as much as I agree about the 8 founding fathers of this being scammers, liars, & corrupters, I feel sorry for them.. because they can’t distinguish the forest from the trees right now. I respect anyone’s perspective on this, whether you’re a Christian or not. As for myself, I pray each day that MLM scams like this can be exposed, & that justice is served to those who have mislead, & that others may find their way out of it, just as I & all of you have. Thanks for listening! 🙂

  103. February 1, 2012 9:49 pm

    @Whirlwinded – Thank you for sharing your story with us. I’m saddened to see your friendship has been strained due to this business. Unfortunately, this is often what happens — the business creates a wedge between the member and his/her friends and family.

    Some of the things that your friend said to you may be in violation of TEAM LIFE’s Policies and Procedures. You may want to remind him of this should he continue to berate and belittle you. Check out the post on the P&P on the right-hand sidebar.

  104. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 1, 2012 10:17 pm

    Webelieved- They can take me to court if they want, but you can’t really sue someone that has barely any assets to begin with. 😀 I mean what could he possibly gain from it if I have very little worth? I haven’t heard a thing now in over a week from him, supposed lawyers, or anyone, so I don’t think I will either. A friend of mine who was outraged by his attack towards me has friends that work for Consumer Protection, & she said there has been an ongoing investigation in all this.

  105. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 1, 2012 10:52 pm

    Yep, I sure did. I think I’ve pretty much read every thread, & every topic in here over the past week. 🙂 I’m not exactly sure if the Consumer investigation was already underway, or if my incident got the ball rolling. And yes, Hawkins was my friend’s upline. I believe my friend passed along the hyperlink for this site, along with a couple of other sites to her friend doing the investigating.

  106. free to live again! permalink
    February 2, 2012 5:05 am

    The picture of the past major looks like the last major that I went to, back in April, I believe. The majors haven’t grown for a long time but I’m sure when they were all there this weekend, someone said from stage “look at all this growth!!!” They used to do that at seminars, say how much it’s grown, and I remember clearly looking around and thinking to myself, no we haven’t, this has shrunk, but since I was so indoctrinated, I just let it go and didn’t think twice of it.

  107. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 2, 2012 6:24 am

    Whilwinded- I just want to echo what the others have said: Thanks so much for sharing! I have lost friends because of the business as well. It just shows the complete cult mentality that exists in TEAM. They had their day when a pat answer worked, but with Amthax and the power of leveraging information (do you like that Tim?) the truth can be heard. Welcome and God bless.

  108. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 2, 2012 7:22 am

    There it is again! GROWTH!! Welcome to the team Whirlwinded! Glad to have ya aboard. No we have nothing for you to sign. Nope, no cost involved. All that is required is honest input. Since you’re already there just keep doin’ what yer doin’! (How’m I doin Owen? Now thats mentorship!! Learned from yeeaarrs of experience building with the best business on earth bar none.) I think I just threw up in my mouth.

  109. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 2, 2012 8:01 am

    Thanks for the warm welcome. I plan on sticking around. As for what Freedomhaha suggested? Well, that’s not going to solve much, & will only bring me to their level. As a Christian, I am going to choose the route of prayer, that one day my friend will come to see the light, & with the help of consumer protection agencies, forums like this, & support of friends who also know what I went through that MLM’s can be shut down forever.

  110. Vogel permalink
    February 2, 2012 8:01 am

    Great post Whirlwinded. Powerful stuff. Glad to see you here.

  111. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 2, 2012 11:00 am

    Last night I came across a great site where you can search for a person’s name & see what has been posted by them lately on social media sites. It’s @
    Here’s a quote from my former friend who left me to the wind…

    “A website selling “another product” bashes us…15,000 people HERE all improving their marriages, finances, fitness, friends, parenting skills. People getting promoted because of improved attitudes, leadership skills and servant hearts! I’m not here to “convince” anyone of anything but its YOUR choice who and what type of person you take your advice from, negative people with NO results or POSITIVE people with RESULTS?!?!??!? I’m a LIFER baby!!!!! Starting the weekend off in Ohio with a prayer and the pledge of allegiance because we CARE about the FREEDOMS being taken away from us!! Do you make a positive change or be a victim of the ones we’re facing???? Inbox me!!!”

    Obviously it was posted near the start of the OH convention. This post was from just a day & a half ago….

    “Rockford area has DOUBLED in size. People want answers in life… The L.I.F.E. business has them… Get PAID to learn, grow, improve your faith, fitness, finances, parenting, marriage, relationships ay work etc… Inbox me for more info… Continued education program that pays you…for L.I.F.E.!! L.I.F.E. founder Dan Hawkins and myself will also be speaking at Bass Creek Espresso 5409 South County Rd. D in Afton, WI tonight at 7:00! Whether your looking to improve your faith, fitness, finances, family, leadership/business development, and generate a GREAT income doing it, we have the perfect opportunity for you!!!!”

    Man, I have a mixed bag of feelings.. anger, pity, sadness, etc. This is why it does us no good to remain down. We need to ban together & help as many as we can break the chains of these MLM’s!

  112. February 2, 2012 12:20 pm

    Troy Dooly reviews Orrin’s Resolved book in the following podcast:–13-resolutions-for-life–friendship

    At the beginning of the podcast, he attended the Columbus Leadership Convention. Doesn’t look like he’s “neutral” on the subject anymore?

    He also references (without naming it) this blog and had this to say about Orrin, “Personally I don’t think he did anything wrong.”

    He called us dull, negative, disillusioned, crybabies too.

  113. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 2, 2012 12:33 pm

    Ya know I just noticed the comment from the “friend” mentions the team in the Rockford area has doubled. With all the doubling that happens with Team they should be at 5 or 6 million by now. What a crock.

  114. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 2, 2012 12:34 pm

    If only all of us had a friend or a friend of a friend that knew people in consumer affairs, law enforcement, & so forth… I’m praying together we can all find ways to keep exposing the lies, & that one day MLM’s can be brought to their knees. Do any of you feel that TEAM / LIFE members follow any of these multiple threads? I got to thinking about that.. if there are guinea pigs that read our posts & run back to one of the 8 sith lords with what they saw / read. God help these people, & God give us strength to continue our banding together & building friendships in here.

  115. February 2, 2012 12:47 pm

    In the podcast, Troy said that Dallin Larsen was present at the Winter Leadership Conference.

  116. Finally permalink
    February 2, 2012 1:26 pm

    Better marriages ? Oh what I could tell of what I have seen behind the scenes……..Tehy are not different than anyone else……….and that is not what they say on stage. I know some of how their kids feel as well and it ain’t xanadu in the Woodward, Brady or Marks house…trust me.

  117. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 2, 2012 1:40 pm

    Amthrax I found some very interesting comments right out of the mouth of Troy here is what he said under the Qrush blog:

    “I love Network Marketing, and want to cover every issue and use it to protect others from the same thing happen, and/or praising the distributors and companies.

    This does not mean I will get things wrong, or because of only hearing one side, of an issue, I have to come back and write more or updated info.

    I do feel that what I am reading here, is not coming from a bunch of dull, negative, dissolution crybabies, but from people who have truly been hurt emotionally and financially.” ~Troy Dooly Aug. 18, 2011 8:44 am under Qrush post.

    Very Interesting, either Mr. Dooly has a bad case of amnesia or is blinded by the fake guru’s and is a double minded fool OR perhaps he has been bought and paid for by Orrin, just my lowly opinion.

  118. Former Round Table permalink
    February 2, 2012 1:43 pm

    This is straight from the mouth of a top leader’s teenager: “You wouldn’t believe the lies we have to tell for the sake of the Team.”

  119. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 2, 2012 1:51 pm


    Your posts has made my day, week, month, and year! I hope what you say is effective and as real as you say it is. I too agree with you in prayer,

    For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.~ Mathew 18:20

    I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.~ In Matthew 21:21:

    You have been a God send and some of what you say are my answered prayers..THANK YOU!

  120. February 2, 2012 1:53 pm

    @Speak – terrific find comparing Dooly’s two quotes!

  121. February 2, 2012 2:10 pm

    @Whirlwinded – TEAM members — even PC members themselves — are reading this blog. Here are three examples:

    1. Orrin Qrush article written. Within days, Orrin writes a post basically admitting that he blogged anonymously.
    2. George Guzzardo foreclosure post. Less than two days, George writes his “strategic default” post.
    3. Arthur Carmazzi Leadership Gurus post. A few days later, Orrin gets named as the IAB top leadership website. You start seeing fewer mentions of his leadership guru status from this point forward (though some people still refer to it).
  122. Emily permalink
    February 2, 2012 2:17 pm

    I am looking for a particular Team CD. It was one of the best speeches I have ever heard from the team stage. I loaned out my copy and never got it back. The speaker was Robert Rohn and he spoke on the different personalities and how to relate to each one. I think this would be a great resource to have again because i have started a new job as a social worker and will be doing home visits. I would love the refresher to have so that I can learn how to relate to each of my clients on their levels and begin the process of building trusting relationships. If anyone still has this cd and would be willing to part with it I am willing to pay you plus shipping and handling. You can email me at and we can work out the details. Thanks so much.

  123. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 2, 2012 2:28 pm

    Whirlwinded- I think we are on the same page. I too pray for my friends that are still involved. I wish for them to see the truth so badly. God bless.

  124. Peachy permalink
    February 2, 2012 3:51 pm

    Rockford just Doubled!.!.!? Going from 1lifer to 2 lifers is doubling. It’s also 100% growth. See I too can mislead, and give half truths. Guess I learned well from the self proclaimed leadership guru’s.

  125. Brent Hansen permalink
    February 2, 2012 4:08 pm


    Great job on pointing out Drooly’s duplicity. Vogel called that one right on the money.

  126. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 2, 2012 4:11 pm

    Thanks, Speak Your Truth, for the kind words. Yes, I’m very sincere, very real, & very compassionate about others feelings. Webelieved – that jogged my memory to a statement my former friend made about 2 months ago when I told him I had no extra time for listening to CD’s, & watching DVD’s, & reading all the time. He told me I could do any of the 3 while watching my 14 month old daughter, & while my wife was @ work… that I was using that as an excuse & crutch. Clearly he had no idea as to the amount of time, energy, & attention one needs to watch a toddler. Not only is it a bit hard to concentrate with a jabbering toddler, but it also would mean pausing the listening materials 50x for diaper changes, meals, & to play. Not only that, but in 36 days our second child will be born. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! He has no kids & has no plans for them according to what he once told me.

  127. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 2, 2012 4:14 pm

    It’s a shame we can’t share more of our identities, such as our genders, emails, etc. But it’s understandable how cautious one has to be when dealing with cult-like antics. Has anyone ever “crashed” a Team / Life meeting to boldly voice their opinions on it? Would probably be a risky thing to do.

  128. Finally permalink
    February 2, 2012 4:59 pm

    Former RT, I have heard some of those same things. The sad part is how the kids in those families don’t have a chance at a normal righteous life. Oh they have stuff and vacations but that is of the Devil, they are being taught covetousness, idolatry and a host of other un biblical principles from their parents and all the exposure to the lie’s. All for the sake of Orrin and his “precious” system. If you watch the Lie f video and look into the eye’s of all the leaders that speak they look like pin wheels…….I watched an interview of Charles manson years ago and saw the same look……….And I am sorry but I have to say that none of them look healthy at all. Terri brady looked very bad from a health stand point. The lief takes it’s toll.

    Great call on Troy speak!!!

  129. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 2, 2012 5:09 pm


    I haven’t seen Vogel be wrong yet in over a year! He definitely has some amazing smarticles, with a very big heart, he has an intense BS finder outer.. lol ..and is an amazing fact finder. Although not everyone agree’s with his approach (which is the beauty of a FREE thinker) and people may not like his is bluntness; but I love that he is a no nonsese kinda guy and there have been times when it was well deserved and other times maybe it wasn’

    But I will take ‘geniune’ over ‘pretenders and fakers’…. any day of the week and is what I believe the ‘culture’ of the Team LIEf is nothing but a Plastic Steeple with Plastic People.

    Vogel is open, honest and no one guesses where he stands. You can’t call him plastic, he is real, true to himself.. honest and I believe he has a very tender and compassionate heart. I appreciate his contribution, facts, humor, and underdog approach; he has helped me personally in many ways with humor and strength and this blog wouldn’t be the same without him…nor without all of you! 🙂

    And if there is 1 thing I love about this blog that is the truth and genuiness of those who can be themselves regarless of differences. That is something stripped of those in the ‘group cult think tank’…There is no Freedom that even comes close to true internal and freedom of mind…FREEDOM..

    Most I believe have come here because.. they have geniune compassion and caring for others. NO individual is perfect. Alhough I think ya all are pretty dang close to perfect. 🙂 So I say be who you are.. 🙂

  130. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 2, 2012 5:18 pm

    One last thing about Vogel…I just couldn’t resist..haha. Although some may disagree with his approach…none the less..he is an a$$ kicker! If you play with FIRE; You will get burnt!

  131. rickdg permalink
    February 2, 2012 6:08 pm

    The most amazing blog ever! Hands down.

    I heard Drooly talk a lot about friends, and how he and Orrin are now buddies. He also said that we here on AMTHRAX are not friends. I disagree. I believe there is a strong connection of personalities here.

    When a person leaves TEAM there are so many emotions that come out. Orrin and manipulators like him, count on that those over-flowing emotions will keep the average person from doing anything – let’s face it, and you’re burnt, you’ve just quit something that took a lot of stress just to make the decision to quit. You’re ashamed, you may have introduced TEAM to your friends so you have that guilt.

    You have to admit that you got bamboozled.

    You just want it to go away – and in the past that is what ex-TEAMers did.

    Not anymore.

    Here at AMTHRAX, I quietly read some amazing posts from people with the courage to share with the world the truth about what happened.

    That’s it.

    I feel as though the talk that goes on here is very healthy and honest and sincere. I laugh, and I am shocked and I am saddened from the stories on this blog. I realize that it would have been a lot less stress, to just go away and pretend that the experience didn’t really happened. So I am connected to you guys – as Drooly would say – you guys are my Heroes.

  132. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 2, 2012 6:15 pm


    We can share emails if you choose…you can go through Amthrax. If there is someone on here you feel you trust or would like to contact, it isn’t impossible.

    Freedomhaha and Finally~

    Very sad indeed what these fakers are teaching their children with their actions and words. Their children are normal children who are going to be getting in trouble (some have); they are no different than other children. Unlike what they want to portray to the world (their tiny little pretend and closed one, that is) and falsely believe that their ‘teachings’ would make perfect people in their perfect environment…such as the less divorce rates, better parents, better marriages, better finances, everyone is happy, happy, happy.No where in all the earth will you find this grandious noble education..haha.

    In my opinion the environment prolongs you from facing your real issues, you ignore your finances, relationships to continue to ‘build’ the scam.

    They trick your mind with the fake happy environment…the ‘culture’, that they want you to perceive is Nirvana it is some kind of amazing revolutionized, all inclusive ‘best education for the world’ answer to every problem in your Life!

    And all YOU have to do… children and others is; just blindly follow the Lief’s undue influence/mind controlling cds and guru ‘teaching’ and..Your life will be ameliorated forever…haha! But I beg to differ, that certainly hasn’t been the case with our experience at least not until we left!

    What a horrible legacy and double message they are sending their children. They are tragically deceived if they believe for a second their children can’t see through there bs and more than likely they despise it. They ought not to underestimate a child’s…Intelligence and intuition, it will more than likely will come back to bite them!

  133. Brent Hansen permalink
    February 2, 2012 7:10 pm


    “In my opinion the environment prolongs you from facing your real issues, you ignore your finances, relationships to continue to ‘build’ the scam.”

    You are so right. We all have issues in our lives, and overcoming them begins with getting information from the correct source. You recall in one of my earlier posts how I watched a friend in my group, struggling in A/Q, and barely able to keep their home from being foreclosed, and their car from being repossessed.

    Also during this period watching those who were supposed “financial” mentors and business experts ridicule them for being behind the eight ball, and not having their finances together. The same people who were ridiculing them should have advised them to stop spending $750 a month to finance their fake business and get out of the system, but they didn’t.

    When I finally told them myself that I thought they should get off of all of it they were totally relieved and gained hope back in their lives. Within a year of following the Dave Ramsey program, they had their vehicle paid off, a cash emergency fund built up, and their house payment not only caught up but were on an accelerated payment schedule. They had the cash to put a new roof on, and buy a couple of used cars for their teenage kids.

    Fruit on the proverbial tree should not be how many material possessions they have, but the reflection of their principles in the lives of those who follow. In my 12 year tenure, I never saw anyone who really had that type of fruit. Once I left that arena I realized that there are many who have the fruit, they just don’t tout it like those on a stage, so it is much less apparent.

    I think anyone who is pitching their deal should be expected to be fully transparent. What other business agreement would you get into without full disclosure? Why is the standard of truth less for those in the MLM industry? I say put up or shut up. If they are pitching a company/deal show me the books or get out. I want to know where every penny is going. After all the offer on the table is a business partnership isn’t it?

  134. Over and Out permalink
    February 2, 2012 7:22 pm

    The leaders don’t see there kids! That was one of the first things that made me take a step back. I would tell my husband time and time again that I didn’t want that “lifestyle” that they made out to be perfect. What I saw from RT members was not the ideal life at all. I spent a lot of time with them as well, first hand seeing what life was like in the home. A Tuesday presenter typically says something along these lines ” This is the kind of lifestyle I want, to be stay at home Mom’s and Dad’s. They are able to wake up to there kids as the alarm clock and eat breakfast with them 7 days a week.” I heard that from stage many times. LIES LIES AND MORE LIES! They are working from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep, every single day! I feel so bad for those children. And what is really sad is they tell people you will only have to do this for a couple years and when you see all the benefits you won’t hear them complain. So for 2-5 years you are supposed to miss out on everything important in your childrens lives just so when that 5 years is up and you still haven’t made it you can keep going a few more years because you’ve done it this long and It’s when things get rough and you don’t quit that success comes. (or whatever bs they say). As a stay at home Mom I am extremely blessed and I know this. I can’t imagine working 40hrs to come home and shove food in my kids mouth and then leave to show a plan and do it all again tomorrow. And it is so sad because people are doing this because they want to make a better life for there family, when in fact what they don’t know is they are missing out on so much precious time and odds are for nothing. My husband works 40-60 hours a week and he spends way more time at home than they do. And I don’t believe it changes either. This I don’t know for sure, but it seems like the further up you go, the more time it requires. Which is not at all what they tell you when you sign up!

    “Lets get REALLY honest here, when we finally could spend time with our kids, we were so indoctrinated, we couldn’t take our brains off the business! Sadly that’s the TRUTH!”

    That is the truth!

  135. Mike Collins permalink
    February 2, 2012 7:39 pm

    I am truly disturbed to see the levels that Troy Dooly is evidently willing to sink to in order to get a few scraps from the tables of these charlatans. I regret ever having questioned Vogel’s motives in commenting on the creepy links Troy has on his website and for attempting to defend him. And he calls Robert Dean a whore…………..SMH

  136. das permalink
    February 3, 2012 4:42 am

    Welcome Whirlwind and thanks for sharing your story with us. Your friend is in very deep and the mind control…well, it’s very powerful. He has been taught to shun people, friends, family, anyone who doesn’t support them. How long has your friend been with Team? If you are a true friend you will be there for him when his world comes crashing down, and it will, trust me. Dan Hawkins will toss him aside when his resources are used up. Then Dan will go find another egomaniac to work with. Team leaders can spot people with huge egos and big hearts. Those already huge egos are easily manipulated when a supposed millionaire is rubbing elbows with us. Once the indoctrination process is in full swing our pride will not let us admit the truth when we see what goes on behind the scenes and that the Team is a bunch of lying hypocrites. Which they are!

    And Mike Collins, that’s why Troy Dooly fits right in with those thieving bastards. They deserve each other! I can’t figure out who is using who tho? 🙂

  137. humiliated permalink
    February 3, 2012 5:41 am

    Awesome find Speak!! You are turning into a regular little Vogel!! You know, when Drooly first came on here I basically told him to pound sand, and he practically begged me to call him or email him on his personal email, because we were “both coming from the same place. I gagged at the thought of having to listen to that perverted, lying, sniveling, whining yet ever so patronizing P.O.S. in person. I went so far as to email Amthrax personally to say I NEVER want that imbecile to have any of my information. Of course Amthrax wouldn’t have shared it, but I just felt that Drooly was a wolf in sheeps clothing, and now I am convinced of it. He was a Trojan horse, blatantly trying to lure particulars from people here so that they could be identified to his handlers. I am so glad that none of you trusted him enough to do this.

    Welcome Whirlwinded.My heart goes out to you. Just know that the person who is doing all of this to you is not the person that you befriended. He is still in there, somewhere, underneath all of the TEAM/LIFE muck and hopefully will emerge again at some point in the future. He really is like a Stepford husband at this point and is sharing a brain with his upline.

    I have a question for you Whirlwinded, when your friend at Consumer Protection told you that “they” are aware of “it” and investigating “it”, was “it” TEAM/LIEF or MLMS in general? DId he/she have any further tips on how to bring this to the governments attention?

  138. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 3, 2012 8:00 am

    Thanks for the warm welcome, Das. 🙂 I agree 100%… my former friend is still in there, beneath all the lies & deception he’s being fed right now. And sad thing is, is that he’s not a bad person.. he’s a person that has turned his life around remarkably from what it was 25 years ago.. & I feel his wanting to help others & bring them to Christ is very genuine, but as some of the long time ex TEAM’ers on this forum can contest to, you get blinded severely. I have turned the other cheek as the Bible says to do, I pray for him, & all that are caught up in MLM schemes, that one day they can see the light, & if asked for forgiveness from him, I would gladly accept. For those of you Christians out there, remember the Bible warns us that false prophets will walk among us, & they will be like wolves in sheep’s clothing.

  139. switch permalink
    February 3, 2012 9:02 am

    Still letting all this sink in…..

    Truly, unbelievable…….

  140. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 3, 2012 10:47 am

    I apologize for overlooking the question about the Consumer Protection
    Agency. As of right now, I don’t know much & my friend that contacted
    them is dealing with a dying mother in law right now, so I won’t know
    anything more for a while. I will however pass on any info that I find
    out. I encourage others to contact Consumer Protection in their areas
    as well. The more info we have, the better we can battle this. 🙂

  141. switch permalink
    February 3, 2012 11:01 am

    from the bone chilling video-
    “this information is TOTALLY proven,…. highly successful in the market place.”

    WHERE?…. Your success? ….Does she even know she’s lying or does she need to be reminded?

    from the bone chilling video-
    “It’s demonstrated to transform lives again, again, and again.”

    “I recognize that there is some truth here,…this was the real thing.”

    LOL….really? Since when has it transformed lives, in the short time from when it was launched? You were spewing the same Shit the week after it was launched, joker!

  142. February 3, 2012 3:13 pm


    LIFE members would say things like, “How can you criticize a company that just got started in November, 2011! Your old criticisms don’t apply to this new business!” At the same time, their leadership will advertise it like it’s been a proven system of success for years on end.

    They can’t have it both ways. Either it’s a brand-new business with no proven track record or a decades-old business with a proven track record of financial failure for the majority of participants. This is the exact same thing they tried to pull with the launch of Quixtar.

  143. Vogel permalink
    February 3, 2012 3:31 pm

    Hey guys, thanks for the vote of support on my call about Drooly. I know that I can be a bit…er…rough at times, but the way I see it, ya don’t bring a knife to a gunfight and ya gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet.

    Seriously, when it comes to defending the flock, diplomacy doesn’t keep the wolves at bay. I don’t mind being the one to take on the dirtier fights if it means that you guys can stay pure and safe and have a little well-deserved breather from these predatory bullies.

    “The righteous will be glad when they are avenged, when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.”
    (Psalm 58:10)

  144. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 3, 2012 4:05 pm

    Vogel – Keep up the great work I really appreciate it.

  145. Vogel permalink
    February 3, 2012 4:27 pm

    And I appreciate what each and every one of you bring to the table. We’ve all got game and we’re stepping it up every day — a formidable force to be reckoned with.

  146. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 3, 2012 6:35 pm

    I agree, and the best part is for the first time ever I am talking about TEAM and really helping people!

  147. Vogel permalink
    February 3, 2012 11:08 pm

    Over and Out, your post rings true. TEAM/Monavie robs people of those things that are far more important in life than money — time, relationships, and dignity. There are few things worse than to be stripped of those 3 assets. There are lots of ways to make money but it’s a lot harder to mend broken relationships or to regain one’s dignity when it’s been lost; and there is no way to regain lost time.

  148. switch permalink
    February 4, 2012 6:36 am

    Exactly. And no, they can’t have it both ways but they love giving themselves the credit. If they give themselves the credit for years past, wouldn’t you think they would explain to everyone, or that the average joe would question it? They even have the balls to say it themselves….”proven track record”, “transforming lives….etc”. So, liefers….back it up….And don’t tell us three months of hard work. I know I would ask, so they have the PC up there showing the “true success”, so, how did they get to where they are today?

    Tim Marks-
    You were on the right path when you backed up you’re little team train and said you learned from Dell “way back in 1999”, it’s just too bad you couldn’t tell the rest of the story about your scamway background.

    Nice try though, timmy.

  149. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 4, 2012 9:12 am


    You say: “I think anyone who is pitching their deal should be expected to be fully transparent. What other business agreement would you get into without full disclosure? Why is the standard of truth less for those in the MLM industry? I say put up or shut up. If they are pitching a company/deal show me the books or get out. I want to know where every penny is going. After all the offer on the table is a business partnership isn’t it?”

    I agree but if they were ‘transparent,’ no one would get in; and is the reason I believe it is all based on deception and no transparency! MLMs live by a whole ‘different’ set of rules based in a world of illusion. They pay lip service to the true ‘rules of success’ that come through legitimate sources but become silently ‘redefined.’

    In my opinion, the ‘rules’ they follow are the rules of the notorious con’s of the world. They are called undisclosed (then exsposed).. ‘special deals’, you are my favorite, loyal, non-thinking follower…good ole boys club ‘rules.’

    You say: “When I finally told them myself that I thought they should get off of all of it they were totally relieved and gained hope back in their lives.”

    Amen…Too Sad..That is what people are looking for and unfortunately the ‘culture’ strips away their ability to do that; to make their own decisions of what is right for them and their families…People want pure honesty; something the ‘top’ refuse to give because of greed. Thanks for sharing that.

  150. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 4, 2012 9:50 am

    Thanks and I always love your post. But I do have to say I chuckled at your ‘little Vogel.’ I appreciate that compliment but will say I don’t have anywhere near the patience or ability to find and decipher the facts; that Vogel has.

    I do remember that too about Dooly trying to get you and others to call and contact him and could see it would be a trap. The questions he asked were a set up and farce. I gave him the benefit of the doubt…Only…because I would love to just see 1 person in that slimy industry to have a sliver of integrity and do what they say they will. In my opinion and so far, those who promote and stay; have proven nothing but they can be bought and their souls sold, at least those at the ‘top’ who full well know the truth and continue to deny it. All in the name of God and their desire for greed; and how obvious their true (lack of) character show through when they join in with the blatantly dishonest corrupt people and praise the well known corruption in the industry.

    Vogel you are amazing, thanks for your willingness to ‘fight the dirtiest fights’., especially when some of us (I) only have a rubber knife to bring to a real gun is definitely appreciated and a great strength of yours…you are an intellectual a$$ kicker. And in all seriousness, I really appreciate all you have and bring and have helped me in more than you will ever know; especially when it is needed the most.
    Thank you. 🙂

  151. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 4, 2012 9:53 am


    I love your post…thanks, you nailed it!

  152. Finally permalink
    February 4, 2012 4:04 pm

    Feel the loooooove 🙂 It is great being a part of something positive about something so negative as Team I have had a chance to talk to a few more of the leaders that have left and or been bullied out of team that read on here but do not post. All I can say is we are so right on. Tim Marks is actually a weenie and not a viking from what I hear. No gut’s what so ever to stand up for what he knows is wrong and his wife is not the little demure nicey nice person she claims to be from stage. She is a materialistic, vain and just plain and simply not a nice person. The lengths she goes to to get people to feel sorry for her, and I am talking about her talks from stage that we have all heard, are pathetic an transparent. The truth is, she is mean, very mean and manipulative. And if you want to know about their kids……….lets just say the apples do not fall far from the tree.

    I normally would not get so personal but the attacks they have made on people that have left their bondage is reprehensible and this site offers a forum to get another side of the story out. You do not have to believe me or anyone else on here but the truth is the truth. Also, since this has been brought to my attention and someone on here asked about Neil Rufner. If you have the stomach for it i would check out his blog. I have heard from his former teammates that Jim Martin and his wife often take credit for building his team and refer to him as the “young Punk” NIce way to talk about your friend. I only reference this because Neil is posting about his friendship with Jim and Tim. I am also told that Tim refers to him in this manner, and not jokingly, like they would twist their comments. I don’t know his whole story but would anyone want to be friends with people that talk about you like that when you are not around? I have heard the derogatory comments about our PC from our up line and the shots are sickening. Hey I understand everyone has issues, myself included, but when your friends take those and rip you apart about them behind your back……are they really your friends? I mean isn’t that what Lie f is all about? Relationships ?? Marks have also been heard tearing apart the Brady’s and our up lines shredded Orrin and Laurie. That is how I heard about Lauries liposuction. How she incessantly begged Orrin for it and then how she ate her way back to where she is now. It is actually pretty sad to supposedly have it all and have nothing LEast of all their salvation, which comes into big questions with all the stuff they have been responsible for.

  153. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 4, 2012 4:21 pm


    Feel the loooooove…lol. There you go ‘cross-linning’ again…lmao! It is true though that we are way better and ‘true’ friendship on here than the Fake ones we had with the PC and we don’t even know who everyone!

    No guts and to stand up and have real integrity…Yep, discusting isn’t it how they trash people, behind closed doors and behind their back, while claiming they have the market on ‘bettering relationships’… what hypocrisy.

  154. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 4, 2012 4:44 pm

    Finally~ 🙂

    Three things will last forever–faith, hope, and love–and the greatest of these is love. ~
    1 Corinthians 13:13

  155. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 5, 2012 10:55 am

    AWESOME find, Webelieved!! Minute by minute, article by article, step by step, ex TEAM member by ex TEAM member, the word is getting out there. 🙂

  156. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 5, 2012 3:35 pm

    Webelieved~ Love the Freedom of Mind article…sweet find!

    I agree Whirlwinded…it is catching them and they are being found out! They can’t run and hide forever and the truth is reaching far beyond this site and seems as if though there are some erupting volcanoes going off.

    Those PC along with others who are sweeping the truth under the rug, hoping the odds are for them, believing they won’t get caught…will be sorry. Those who continue to promote the deception and scam, who ‘believe’ they will always get away with, all they have done.. will not be able to claim ignorance, when Justice (long overdue) catches up…on that fateful day when they will reap what they have sown. They will wish they would have done the right thing; but I believe, it will be too late!

  157. djleaky permalink
    February 7, 2012 1:18 pm

    Team/Life – Orrin Woodward and all of his “sheep,” are the most frightening people I’ve laid eyes on since the Nazi’s and the Holocaust. These people also have very clear ties to extreme evangelical, anti-people churches – their wives specifically leading ministries and outreaches. Probably more so as tax shelters for Woodward, Brady, and the “elders,” as all of the proceeds from sales of “Rascal Nation,” and “Launching A Leadership Revolution,” have been donated to “All Grace Outreach.” Isn’t that interesting. These people, and the people they are going after are scarey. I’m just waiting for another Hitler to be born from all of this.

  158. February 7, 2012 1:32 pm

    @djleaky – I think the Hitler/Nazi comparisons are going a little too far. Proceeds from the first edition of LLR go to All Grace Outreach, but not subsequent editions (there have been 17+ reprints of LLR). I don’t know about the status of Rascal Nation. Finally, according to the former legal counsel of TEAM, the donations to AGO were not used for tax-sheltering purposes. Who’s really knows the truth behind that, since we’ve yet to see AGO’s financial records (i.e. via Guidestar).

    That said, I can understand (and share) your concerns about TEAM/LIFE. I just wouldn’t go as far as likening Orrin to Hitler.

  159. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 7, 2012 2:55 pm

    Amthrax- I think one of the best parts of this site is that you know when to reign people in when they go too far. I love the way people that have every right in the world to be very angry do it with the facts instead of just saying crazy things. You are doing an awesome job, and I really appreciate it.

  160. Finally permalink
    February 7, 2012 8:09 pm

    I have also heard that Orrin does not like this site in the least………..It is because the side of team he doesn’t want out there gets put out there on this site. First hand information from the sources, not the spin of the team. We violate his precious cross lining rule and only to his detriment not ours. The other part of it is that he can hold our checks hostage like he can to the lemmings on team. You know that every one of the guy’s in the PC bow down to Orrin and all because they are afraid of losing their precious incomes. Yes sports fans Orrin would kick only of them to the curb if he thought for a minute they did not have his back not matter what he did. Chris, Tim. George and the rest of them have zero security with Orrin, he controls their money so he controls them. They are weak and spineless for what they have closed their eyes to and participated in. Tim Marks kicked a life long friend (Mike Raatz) to the curb at the behest of Orrin. Tim, how in the world do you sleep at night? Mike was your friend since childhood and in an instant you stole his income and booted him out. And for what? Because he wanted to take some time and spend it with a daughter that was going away to school. Tim what you did was pathetic and quite possible the most damaging thing you have ever done in your life to an individual. You will pay a price unless you take the opportunity to make things right. Which means paying Mike for what you took and paying him for the next 20 years what is rightfully his. I mean he did build a B type business didn’t he? Yea in know it will never happen but I am just making the point that Tim nor the rest of the pc have it in them to do what they claim Lief teaches, character, integrity and the other buzz words they like to throw around about themselves when they are lying about each other……….Sad, very very sad………And do not forget about Amy and how she turned on someone that supposedly was one of her best friends, Kristi Raatz……oh yeah they know how to build relationships N O T.

  161. February 7, 2012 10:00 pm

    @Finally – Didn’t you mean that Orrin “can’t” hold our checks hostage?

  162. djleaky permalink
    February 9, 2012 4:28 pm

    To explain why I believe Orrin Woodward and Team/Life to be so similar to Hitler/Nazism…, Orrin has taken all of this one step beyond MLM’s, and his own personal greed. He’s injecting a healthy dose of politics, and religion into his scheme(s) as well. Not only is he indoctrinating those needing, and seeking “financial independance,” he’s throwing in a bit of his own beliefs on government, and religion here and there. Historically speaking, if one investigates Hitlers rise to power, the state Germany was in at the time, and the methods Hitler, and the Nazi’s used in the beginning, and progressively throughout, the similarities are frightening. We are all living in very trying times – financially, socially, spiritually, and patriotically. Many, if not all of us, in one way or another, have been significantly impacted by the disembodied state of our world, and nation. We are collectively vulnerable thus less discriminating towards those whom offer us answers. Those answers may not be the one’s in best interest of all of us, though seemingly at the moment.

    As for myself, and my own experience with Team/Life ??? I was a member for two months. The family members who got me into it did so in a dishonest manner. My family members have literally been brainwashed by Orrin, and his BS. They have no money, two little kids, and are starving themselves just to be a part of this scam. Where is Orrin when they can’t even feed themselves ? Where is Orrin when they are spending the last $90 to go to his seminars ? Orrin, as rich as he is, can’t even comp a couple of tickets ??? I am honestly afraid for my family members. I’ve never seen anything like this, and according to all of my research this is as “cult like, as it gets.

  163. djleaky permalink
    February 9, 2012 4:45 pm

    Is there really a need to “reign,” anyone in on this matter ??? I wouldn’t be making the comparisons/accusations I’ve been making without having done my own homework per se. Why doesn’t Orrin/Team/Life make clear his evangelical connections to Cross Church, and All Grace Outreach when signing people up for Team/Life ??? Shouldn’t there be clear disclosure on all fronts, not just the financial one’s? Not that I’m anti-religion. I’m anti sneaky, shady people looking to use my money, and the money of others under the auspices of such spiritual purity, when they cannot even admit what exactly their own spirituality is. To me is seems clear that the indoctrination is not only for financial purposes. To me, this type of indoctrination is very dangerous, and everyone’s awareness being “reigned in,” is irresponsible.

  164. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 9, 2012 5:32 pm

    @djleaky, Great insight, I couldn’t agree more.

  165. February 9, 2012 5:39 pm

    @djleaky – I think we’re on the same side here. The comparison to Hitler, however, is a little unfair, since such a comparison ultimately leads to a discussion of genocide and the Holocaust. Orrin and TEAM aren’t there yet.

    You are absolutely right about full disclosure, and this is part of why this site exists. This site discloses the things that TEAM doesn’t want to disclose: the heavy use of religion when marketing the business, the shaky financial past of some of TEAM’s leadership, the cult-like tactics used to indoctrinate people.

  166. djleaky permalink
    February 9, 2012 5:56 pm

    This is why I appreciate this site so much, because of the full disclosure. Honestly, had it not been for this site and the honest of it’s contents I’d probably still be spending $50 a month on Life and Orrin’s mightier than thou lifestyle. It’s this site which enlightened me, and provided me an opportunity to contribute to that. I simply worry about people such as Orrin whom are hitting a vulnerable society from all directions. He’s by no means Hitler but the methods of manipulation are strikingly similar.

  167. Robin permalink
    February 9, 2012 8:38 pm

    Wow! I just ran into someone that used to be on one of the Paul’s other teams tonight. What a conversation we had. If I thought I was disgusted and sickened by their greedy, willing to do anything immoral, unethical, and underhanded for the almight dollar, well I am finding out that that is their common practice. I am so glad they showed their true colors to me. That they stole our team. I am free and the truth set me free. I am so thankful I happened on this site. I knew this person crossline when we were both in.

    I listened to a voice message saved and boy did J. Paul’s true colors shine. I know how they reached the level they reached in MonaVie and lets just say it is not by any effort or work they did. Unless you count the time they spent planning and schemeing how they could take from others.

    I am part of a family business. Every Thursday we pay people for their time and efforts. Like clock work they get paid. If they spent extra time, we pay them time and a half. If they have family troubles or sickness that takes them away from their job for an extended period of time we “hold their spot” so they can take care of what it is that they need to. We don’t “fire” or “terminate” them because we had a “secret” meeting. We don’t replace them. We value them and care about them. We have even made loans to employees at 0% in small amounts if they have been in a bind. Oh and we actually have a retirement plan not a hope for if you dream enough lifestyle.

    I will take my J.O.B. any day over their life style. I have more time being out of Team than I ever did in the Team. I would rather leave a legacy of integrity, character, and honesty to my children than any money gained by lies, deception, greed, unethical practices, and on and on. And I am WITH my children way more to train them up and prepare them for the world.

    I actually feel sorry for the PC and RT. When you live a life based on what they practice you have no peace and fulfillment in life. You are always empty chasing something (money, status, promotion, recognition, false recognition) and never filling that void.

    When I was in Team they changed me into a robot without my even seeing it coming. I like who I am. God created me to be me. We are all created unique for a reason. I am so glad God gave me the grace and lesson learned to return to what matters most. I am me, whether I am at church, with a friend, with family, etc. I do not change and put on a face. What you see is what you get in all my imperfection and I will never have it any other way.

    That is why I will follow this site and comment here and there. I want people to see thru the smoke and mirrors, the carnival mirrors. When you do you can finally take a step back and unplug for a minute and the truth floods and is undeniable. Then you are free indeed.

    What is it Orrin always said, “Men live lives of quiet desperation”. I think he said it so much because that is how they live. Desperate to keep the plates spinning to keep up their lifestyle through any means necessary.

    I am truly rich. In all that matters.

    P.S. My finances were awesome before I took the Paul’s advice. Wreaked havic on my finances for about 3 years and went back to the free advice from a christian financial planner and returned them back on track.

    Sorry such a long post. Just got “fired” up running into a former Paul teamer. By the way, if she would of said to me in person what she said to this former team member on a voice mail she would have been picking herself up off the floor. I would of never got that plugged in. If you can’t guess I am a strong choleric and those were fightin words.

  168. Robin permalink
    February 9, 2012 8:42 pm

    Just thought I better let you know I am female. I do not believe in men hitting women. 🙂 and I said I was a Christian, not perfect.

  169. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 9, 2012 10:34 pm

    Robin… I can very much relate to what you were saying about where was the TEAM when the chips were down? I lost my job last November, & my previous employer contested my unemployment, so there was a 6 week time frame in there where my family was on pins & needles as we watched our checking account dwindle. Our church & some close friends saw our dilemma, & helped out tremendously, but not one TEAM member even offered a penny to help us stay afloat. In fact, my friend @ that time said it was my own fault for losing my job because of my attitude!

  170. humiliated permalink
    February 10, 2012 6:19 am

    djleaky, welcome to the discussion and thank you for your honesty and insight. I agree that Orrin is, in my view, diabolica because he does prey on the vulnerable and the trusting. He has no soul, no conscience and no real friends. Really Orrin. I want you to think about this. If you weren’t running this scam and living off of the wealth the people under you have created, do you think even ONE of them would stick around? Do you really think your wife would still be there?.No one REALLY trusts you, not even your “friends”, If anyone does anything for you (ie Dallin) it is because they are down in the snake pit with you and want something in return. When this is all over, you will have nothing and no one. I wish I could say that I pity you and your wife, but I really can’t say that with any honesty.

    However, Orrin is dangerous because he is cunning, capable and charasmatic. He scam continues to evolve into different permutations, attempting to disguise the “scammery”. This site continues to inform people of this and, as I have said before, it functions as a neighborhood watch group. If there is a predator (in this case he is a financial & spiritual predator) living among us, we must remain vigilant and continue to speak out and warn others.

    Thank you Amthrax for constantly informing us and the public with regards to Orrin’s lies and carnival side shows. You are providing a great public service.

  171. Peachy permalink
    February 10, 2012 8:43 am


    I too was on the Paul’s team, and concur with everything you have said here. We lived, and saw all that you have mentioned. Thankfully we have been out for over two years.

  172. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 10, 2012 11:26 am

    DJ- The only reason I think that the Hitler comparison is too far is that the people the really need to hear this (current and future TEAM members) would stop listening when Orrin starts to be compared to a man responsible for the slaughter of 6 million Jews. I also think Orrin is horrible man, but I just can’t put those two on the same level. However, do I think he should be in prison: YESSSSS!

  173. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 10, 2012 11:29 am

    Robin- You’re awesome. Thanks a lot for sharing!

  174. Robin permalink
    February 10, 2012 3:48 pm

    Peachy I have been out 3 years now as of last September. I’m sorry what we experienced you did too. But the more I find out the sicker it gets. It looks to be common practice in their team.

    Freedomhaha, thanks!

  175. Peachy permalink
    February 10, 2012 4:06 pm


    At one time I used to think these people cared about each and everyone of us. Now to realize that it is one huge master plan by the Team to bilk your hard earned money for their ill gotten gains. Makes me sick.

  176. noliberals24 permalink
    February 15, 2012 8:03 pm

    Great to see all this info. I was neary suckered into this SCAM in Morley, Mi. in the last couple of months. What drew my attention was they are going to get in politics and go to congress and start a fight to restore morality and the principles on which the country was founded. That interested me (I already belong to the Tea Party and it cost nothing). So before I paid I started asking when was this “fight” going to began and “Deb Hillis” and “Rob” just repeated “soon”, as soon as they get a million people!!!! Seriously? That was a major red flag (along with watching the same presentation every Tuesday night and having to pay to do so). “Deb” bought me a ticket to the Columbus meeting (which I didn’t ask for) then billed me for it, along with my membership through her trucking company which I was working at the time. I started doing some research and it didn’t take much to see what a joke Team is. These people make sheep look like strong leaders!!!!! I backed out at the last minute and Deb’s attitude immediately changed toward me. Then while working at there shop one evening “Rob” stopped by to offer another CD for me when I didn’t show up in Columbus. I declined, he then went on to state that “Ronald Reagan never ran from a fight”, knowing what a Reagan fan I am, then criticized my military service while losing the argument with me. Showed his real colors. They go out of there way to say they are not a pyramid. It’s a play on words, such as, if you call the tail of a dog a leg, how many legs does a dog have? It has four, calling it a leg doesn’t make it one!!!! These people are crooks, run from them!!!!!

  177. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 16, 2012 9:10 am


    Thanks for sharing your story. All the testimonies, including yours; reveals their weakness and hypocrisy these guys perpetuate on society. If they are told NO, they then turn on people like little crybaby bullies and attack people personally because they can’t take the rejection or the truth. And even though “Rob criticized your military service”; I commend you for it and thank you for serving our country; that is true courage and heroism.
    Sincerely, thank you.

  178. February 16, 2012 9:23 am

    @noliberals and @speak – I would rather have religion and politics stay out of these types of business, but they are often intertwined so tightly together. And, I hope the third taboo — sex — stays far away from the stage and the CD’s. Please don’t let that be a part of the Family series!

  179. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 16, 2012 9:34 am

    This is exciting!! Slowly the truth is reaching others, & the writing’s on the wall. Our numbers are continuing to grow!! 🙂 Welcome to our newest ex TEAM / LIEF’ers in our ongoing mission to expose the the multiple negatives of the MLM’s.

  180. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 16, 2012 9:48 am

    Noliberals- Awesome post! Without rambling too much lets just say- I agree over and over. Welcome to this site! I too joined for much of the same reasons, but the crookedness and the lunacy of the TEAM/LIEf just paints conservatives as idiots. Thanks again for sharing.

    God bless.

  181. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 16, 2012 10:33 am


    Lol..I am 100% with you on that one. This is not the place for that and just complicates things, nor would I want it here, it would be a distraction to the real issues. But do agree it is most certainly a part of the Team Liefer PC agenda to ‘control’ all areas of people’s lives and some think they can ‘mentor’ those areas too. The team PC want to make all the choices for others and the cult group peer-pressure is no doubt to believe the way they do. Control freaks, to the enth degree! 🙂

  182. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 16, 2012 10:56 am

    I hate to tell you Amthrax but sex was talked about from stage. How it relates to the marital relationship etc. It wasn’t spoken of very much but it was in there. My wife and I thought they were overstepping and tuned them out.

  183. Finally permalink
    February 16, 2012 11:56 am

    Just thought on the Hitler comparison. Was Hitler horrible? Yes. Has Orrin done what Hitler had done? NO. However, the process is the exact same. Use propaganda, mind control techniques and convince others to do your bidding for you. So on one level I agree, but I would not hesitate to compare the two in the way they accomplish their goals. Remember that Hitler convinced an army of men to kill the people……..orrin is convincing thousands to spread his lies………….

  184. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 16, 2012 12:02 pm

    In a way it’s like killing. Maybe not in the physical sense, but it kills finances, friendships, relations with family, free time, etc. So, in that aspect the brainwashing kills off a lot of important things that are important in life.

  185. noliberals24 permalink
    February 16, 2012 4:06 pm

    Very well stated!!!!!!

  186. Vogel permalink
    February 16, 2012 5:43 pm

    Good post. But unnecessarily inflammatory user name…just sayin’ is all.

  187. Finally permalink
    February 16, 2012 6:38 pm

    Vogel, I understand the inflammatory name of Hitler, I really do. But I do not think that disqualifies us from using it as a comparison. The holocaust happened, it was horrendous but the fact that others are following the same tactics used by Hitler Is cause enough to make the comparison. I think people will understand this and it is important to history to call people out that are following his example….

  188. noliberals24 permalink
    February 16, 2012 7:03 pm

    Unnecessarily inflammatory user name?! Are you serious? Get a life for God’s sake.

  189. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 16, 2012 7:08 pm


    I love inflammatory, keep it up. Being a classical liberal myself, I find your name unique and thoughtful.

  190. February 16, 2012 7:20 pm

    Focus, everyone. Let’s steer the discussion back on topic, please.

  191. djleaky permalink
    February 16, 2012 7:40 pm

    “Finally,” thank you for reinterating my original point regarding the “Hitler,” comparison. Well put. That’s the thing…, people like Orrin, Chris, and his other henchmen, are dangerous. The scope of the group influenced doesn’t need to be big or small per se. The fact or the matter is the intentions of Orrin via his MLM businesses is self serving towards his agendas, and his agendas only. Just as Hitler did.

  192. Vogel permalink
    February 16, 2012 7:41 pm

    Sorry. One last response on this. My comment was innocuous enough that it shouldn’t have provoked the “get a life” response. I’m sensing a bit of a TEAM-like knee-jerk response there but I’ll chalk it up to the PTSD and let it pass this time.

    I’m just curious what the “noliberals” moniker is supposed to mean. No liberals where? Anywhere?

    I have neighbors and friends and family members who are, dare I say it, “liberals”, so yes, I find that user name needlessly inflammatory. It was either intended to provoke or the user lacked the imagination to come up with something…um…normal. Just imagine if you had substituted the word “blacks” or Jews” instead of “liberals”, and maybe you’ll get some idea of why I find it offensive and unnecessarily divisive. That’s a handy exercise to keep one from putting their foot in their mouth before uttering something. Try it next time.

    Aside from that, welcome.

  193. February 17, 2012 7:09 am

    I agree with Vogel

    Amthrax, you mentioned the following

    ” @noliberals and @speak – I would rather have religion and politics stay out of these types of business, but they are often intertwined so tightly together. And, I hope the third taboo — sex — stays far away from the stage and the CD’s. Please don’t let that be a part of the Family series!

    Maybe avatars associated related to politics, religions or sex should not be allowed to prevent these kind of discussions.

  194. February 17, 2012 7:25 am


    I saw that you do not have a disclaimer on the blog. Because of the influencing character of this blog, and the amount of people it reaches, I think it is time you should add one (to protect yourself and all the contributors).

    You can find information how to write one here.

    In your disclaimer, you can also include the policy about the naming convention of the avatars.

  195. noliberals24 permalink
    February 17, 2012 9:17 am

    I could care less how many times you “let it go”. I choose the name because liberalism is socialism’s brother and the leading cause of the downfall of this country.

  196. February 17, 2012 10:10 am

    Everyone – We not share each other’s beliefs in religion and politics, but we can agree that that MLM’s such as TEAM LIFE are not good business opportunities. As the moderator on this site, I give everyone fairly wide latitude when it comes to commenting. Please respect this or I will begin actively moderating your comments.

    @noliberals – as a courtesy to your fellow commenters, consider changing your handle to something like noliterals. We’ll get the point.

    @Vogel and @MikeCollins – leave the profanity away.

  197. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 17, 2012 10:48 am

    I agree. We’re in this together. Let’s not put a wedge where one’s not needed. Otherwise we’re stooping to the level of the TEAM / LIEF’ers in a way. I for one don’t want to see anyone leave. We need to put aside petty differences & work together to help others.

  198. Whirlwinded permalink
    May 17, 2012 11:36 pm

    I’m still around… still following all the posts. Became a father for the second time back in March, so with my 2 month old & 17 month old I’ve been super busy. My friend I think was full of crap, as I never heard anything else from her after that. Too bad too, because I was really hoping what she was saying was true & that they’d bring these monkeys to their knees.


  1. Reader Story: Enough! Has Had Enough With TEAM « AMTHRAX

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