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Reader Story: Enough! Has Had Enough With TEAM

February 13, 2012

Here’s a story from the reader on my site known as Enough! Enough! has been reading this site for some time, and finally could not hold back with sharing his/her story.

I want to say thanks again to Amthrax and everyone who contributes to this blog. You have helped tremendously in my healing and the healing of many others I know.

I was involved with Team for over 5 years and when I think back on some of the crazy things I did to try to succeed it’s nauseating. I was in college when I joined and I didn’t have a car at the time, so for awhile I would ride my bike to all my plans (rain or shine). Wow, I must have looked pretty silly. For at least 3.5 years I averaged 3-5 hours of sleep a night, driving crazy hours of the night just to show plans. When I was out of college, 3 nights a week or so, I would leave from work and drive 4 hours away to different states, show a plan or follow through (many times getting no-showed) and drive home that night, sleep for a few hours and get up and do the same thing again. My upline always said you’re doing the un-average thing so you’ll succeed… well they were right about one thing… it certainly was un-average what I was doing (just no one told me how stupid it was). I thank God all the time that neither I nor anyone else I knew ever got in an accident from driving so much and going on so little sleep.

For at least 3 years I went go-getter every month, went power player a few times, but never really made any money. It’s amazing how the Team brainwashes people like me to stay in all those years while making basically nothing. And I was spending $1000 a month! I shelled out at least $60,000 to those crooks! And I know that’s probably nothing compared to what some of the big leaders on here spent! I was doing pretty much everything they told me to do, but when I wasn’t getting results, I was told that I needed to grow more and change to get the results. What bogus! It’s never anything wrong with the system.

After so many years of this, I started to have lots of health problems, similar to other stories you have heard. I’ve been in and out of the ER multiple times… one time being on my honeymoon!! Everything came to a breaking point for us when my spouse and I started to see some things that weren’t adding up.

  1. Where had many big leaders gone that had been with Orrin from the beginning… Abrahams, Freezes, Raatz’, etc?
  2. Why wasn’t Pastor Dickie speaking from stage anymore?
  3. Why was our upline going Power Player EVERY seminar and major but never moving on in the business?
  4. Why could we never talk about former friends and team members who had left the business?
  5. Was this really a B-type business if people who chose to spend more time with family get their income stripped from them for not being around as much?
  6. Why were we moving away from Monavie if Orrin had benchmarked 1800 companies and found Monavie to be superior?
  7. Was there really a benchmarking study Orrin? Or was that another lie told at EVERY open to lure people in?

These questions prompted us to talk with a former big Team leader who had left. It astonished us the lies and evilness Team leaders would go to for the almighty dollar! We wanted to hear the other side of the story, so we spoke with our PC to hear their side. After talking with them, it was clearly evident who was telling the truth! Everything we had known about the team was a flat-out lie!! We felt sick to our stomachs for having been fooled for so long.

After leaving, we have been shunned by our Team. I have friends who were in my wedding who won’t be our friends anymore because we aren’t in their business! However, our life has never been better being gone from the Team! After receiving help, I’m on my way to getting healthy. We have more money in the bank than we’ve had in years! We can genuinely enjoy being around family and friends without feeling guilty about not being out showing a plan. And we can sincerely serve God and his people without having ulterior motives. We’ve learned so much about what is truly important on this earth and it’s not building a big community so you can have a bunch of money! We are here to serve God and bring him glory.

I especially like the questions that Enough! starting asking when things weren’t adding up. These are the questions that TEAM members should be asking themselves (and their upline leaders) but rarely do because to the organization’s influence on members’ beliefs and actions:

  • Members are told not to question one’s upline.
  • Members are told not to talk to those crossline from them.
  • Members are told not to go on the Internet to read websites that are critical of TEAM LIFE, though they are encourage to go to pro-TEAM LIFE websites.
  • Members are told not to talk to those who quit the business, because they are losers and quitters who no longer have the dream.

Those who have broken free from the grips of an MLM like TEAM LIFE know that they were in a financial or business cult. This may come as a shock to those TEAM members reading this post. “How dare you categorize us as being in a cult!” they might respond. I have only one thing to say to them, “Then stop acting like you’re in a cult!”

I wish there was a story I could relate or a phrase I could say that would instantly lift the TEAM LIFE fog from a member’s mind. Unfortunately, it doesn’t exist, so we’ll have to continue sharing these kinds of stories from former TEAM members. Thanks to Enough! for sharing!

Read More Ex-TEAM Reader Stories »

49 Comments leave one →
  1. February 13, 2012 6:20 am

    Wow, that is quite a story! If this business was for real, then you would have been making money, but sadly TEAM is a scam, so you weren’t making money even though you put everything you had into it. Glad you got out.

  2. Katie permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:45 am

    Thanks for sharing, Enough! I can’t imagine trying to go through that while in school and biking to all those plans! So happy you were able to get out with your health and your sanity.

  3. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:54 am


    Thanks for sharing your story! Thanks for having the courage to share it! I hope you can share with us what your Diamond’s answers to all your questions. Great valid questions that everyone should be asking. Your story is another testimony to the guaranteed losses that 99% will only put time, money and effort into and never get a ROI and suffer by believing they will every get “financially free” and achieve “all your goals and dreams.”


    “I wish there was a story I could relate or a phrase I could say that would instantly lift the TEAM LIFE fog from a member’s mind.”

    I too agree and too wish with you..maybe we will figure that one out! :}

  4. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:56 am

    I am so Glad You Got Out!!

  5. February 13, 2012 7:18 am

    I would like to see some reactions of pro-Team members. Maybe they can answer the seven questions. Orrin or your henchmen, please enlighten us? This is your chance to proof this “quitter” is just a “looser”!

    I am waiting…………………..

  6. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 13, 2012 7:29 am


    Only the names change, the story continues to be the same. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

    @velizabethwhite, the business is “real”. It is a “real” venture for those who are positioned to benefit. They are the “real” business owners. Unfortunately, it is not a business for 96% of the entire Team. For them it is merely an expensive hobby, just as Enough has experienced. A hobby that will destroy your finances and relationships if you pursue it long enough.

  7. February 13, 2012 7:32 am

    @Enough – The greatest lie is that it all falls back on you! You need to read more…. You need to listen to more CD’s…. You need to go Power Player AGAIN….You need to change your thinking…and on…and on…until YOUR money runs out! Thousand dollars a month eh? Sounds about right for someone that was “hitting it” every night and doing “all the right things”. Glad to hear you are out! Welcome to TRUE Freedom!

  8. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 13, 2012 7:54 am

    Woo hoo! Our Team is growing! And no prospecting. Welcome Enough! I love this business!

  9. February 13, 2012 8:02 am

    The only way to make money in a MLM pyramid tool scheme is to start one. To be able to grow/survive as a business you let you inner circle (say 4%) profit from it as well.

    Never join when you have to start from the bottom and do not belong to the inner circle. You belong to the 96% who only will end up with a loss.

    Never start or join one if you have a conscience. You have to be able to lie to your friends or other people that they can make money like you do, even though you know you are still not making a penny.

    Am I saying that people who are at the moment in Team/Life do not have a conscience. Yes and no.

    No, because I really think cult members are masters in fouling themselves by ignoring the facts that a lot of people do not make money.

    Yes, I believe the so-called leaders or gurus are scrupulous people without any conscience.

    Still waiting……….

  10. February 13, 2012 9:50 am


    Welcome to your new venture. You will always be among friends here even if you don’t make another post. If you come back in 2 days, weeks, months, or years we will always be by your side. We are glad to see that you had ENOUGH!

  11. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 13, 2012 11:26 am

    Enough- Thanks a lot for sharing. I also started in college for various reasons like you did. I feel the TEAM preys on college students, but I am interested to see how you feel about that. I know that if you put 1 100th of the work you did in TEAM to any other venture you will be very successful!

    God bless and thanks again.

  12. Finally permalink
    February 13, 2012 12:21 pm

    Punisher you hit it on the head, they always make it your fault, another way that they are cowards, yes the Team self proclaimed “gurus and leaders” are cowards. They know 99% won’t make it yet they continue to take advantage of any and everyone for their own personal financial gain. Pathetic and evil. Happy to hear you are out enough and I hope and pray you never question your decision and if you ever do remember that guys like Birtles, Martin, Huber Cullen and darkeangelo are all supposed leaders that have been building the team for 10+ years and they are worse off then when they had jobs. Oh they won’t admit it but 3 of them filed for bankruptcy, one foreclosed on his house and another can’t afford health insurance for his family even though he claimed for years that he would “just buy” his benefits. They are all in on a sinking ship and a few might actually end up in jail. So Enough you made the right decision. I give you credit and you are a champion for getting out, not like the cowards that won’t admit it doesn’t work.

    I have the real answers to all your questions and give you credit for asking them. Let me answer the power player one. Our up line did same thing and never moved on in net numbers. My friends on the liberators had an interesting story about Mr Power player Jim Martin. They would track the systems he needed to qualify and about 95% of the time he crossed for PP the number weren’t there. He was short on systems, and that was in both his legs. sometimes they came in a week later but more often then not they didn’t come in. Which means he would rather get recognized than get it done. Oh and when these things were brought up to Tim Marks he would often tell people that it was a good time to die to self. Are you kidding me?? Die to self…… I guess Martin and Jarvinen went down to Orrins on a triple power player promotion and were both short on systems to qualify. My friend said this was routine. Well it must run rampant because not only did our RT up line do the same but others were told that it was okay as long as you had verbals on the systems……
    So you see that is why they never move on, they actually never get quality depth, they get faked depth. I also understand why guys like Tim Marks would not confront it. They do to confront it because it is better to get recognized with PP’s than to go a seminar with no PP’s. No character or integrity yet they claim to be life coaches……..would you want them coaching your kids??? it is sad actually. I always wondered how these guys did it Seminar after seminar and now I know…..THEY DIDN’T!!!! One more interesting thing, they do read this and also have others on their team read it and post occasionally. They do not like this info out there but hey, it is true. I wonder if Orrin showed God the plan how he would explain residual income to God??? I think the lightening bolt would strike at “So, how did you ever get started in being God?

    I have a request for my fellow Amthrax brethren and sisterhood. Please pray for Pastor Tom Ascol of Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral Florida and for Steve Camp of Cross Church in Palm City Florida. These men are in the midst of wolves in sheep’s clothing in the Team infiltrating their churches and they can’t see it now because Orrin and Tim have been mentored by the most Godly man they have ever been associated with, Pastor Robert Dickie Jr. They have mastered people skills so will relate to the Pastors they know what Christian author’s to quote and what scripture as well. And I am sure they have tithed their way into the good graces of the Church. I understand Tim has sponsored the brother of Pastor Tom Ascol and let others on his team know that that Church was off limits for them to contact. A fact that ticked Dolores Martin off so bad she went off on Tim and Amy to her teammates. I guess Amy had Dolores host a ladies leadership at their house in Florida for Amy’s team when Amy was out of town, many of which were member of the church she was not able to contact ………That Did not sit well with her and she made it known to some. I guess as a life coach Dolores should have talked with Amy about it rather than rant and whine to her team, her downline, I mean aren’t you never to puke downline? Ah well I know they are human but they never ever admit to being hypocrites……..

    Great job again at getting out Enough!!

    Oh legal disclaimer, these are my opinions and a combination of first hand experiences and information that was shared with me by others that were involved.

  13. Whirlwinded permalink
    February 13, 2012 12:27 pm

    Welcome, Enough! The part of your story where you talk about people that were in your wedding no longer speaking to you, I have had an IDENTICAL experience! Read my initial post under the “Team leadership convention this weekend” thread. It’s sad when people choose a cult-type business over the difference of opinion of a friend. Our #’s are growing. Each day, more & more people see the light, & if there’s one thing I can’t stress enough, is GET THE WORD out. Tell your friends, have them tell friends, post on Facebook, & other media sites, & tell others about this site. Together we can bring MLM companies to their knees, & wipe the evil away, as the Bible says!

    [Editor’s note: Here is a link to Whirlwinded’s initial comment containing his story]

  14. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 13, 2012 12:52 pm

    One thing that I personally experienced on a regular basis that partially explains moving on slowly in pin but still gaining depth is the phenomenon called “build and replace”. One can build depth every month but if the depth from previous months keeps converting to zero volume you end up nowhere. I always enjoyed that. Now the Teamer will explain this away by saying I wasn’t building relationships well enough. Yeah right. Without getting into a long post I’ll just say that years of consistent power player WITH solid relationships still ended up in the same place. You need several good builders so you can build more depth FASTER than the backwards depth is happening! Without that, you’re just spinnin yer wheels.

  15. February 13, 2012 1:28 pm

    @I Quit – Your description of build and replace sounds a lot like building a sandcastle.

    @Everyone – I added a big button on the right-hand sidebar for Ex-TEAM and Reader Stories. It links to the various reader-submitted stories on the site. I may be pulling out some other stories from the comments section to include there.

  16. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 2:07 pm

    Amthrax~ Your site Rocks and it is ‘building numbers!!! Thanks a bunch to all and a special thanks to YOU! 🙂

    Each one Reach one; Amthrax site! Even the PC seems to love the site because they seem to be reading it they also help out with building the numbers…haha! Just as Whirlwinded spoke of!

    And I agree a (cult-like)…. Sandcastle. I believe they have other names for it in the “business opportunity” or the “best business bar none with hopelessly overpriced products, pyramid scheme”; and it is called Reverse Depth and Churning…same difference!
    Anyway you slice or dice it, dress it or frame it; it is unstainable, period.


    That is just appalling, “Die to Self”, That is the solution to unethical behavior..Really?
    WOW amazing, way to address that issue! Seriously, what a cowardess way to brush off the fact that it was an unethical game of claiming PP. NOT suprised but pretty sickening especially for all of us who busted butts and did “Earn It.” What won’t they do for recognition?They paraded the Martins as many multiple PP numerous times and they said they were when they weren’t? I would call that cheating.

    On another note..Wow…way to go Marks on claiming the whole church “prospects'”…all for yourself, that is some real “leadership”…How sad and desperate they have become. I will be praying for those Pastors and congregations and more to share on Amthrax. 🙂

  17. Vogel permalink
    February 13, 2012 2:40 pm

    Sisyphus must have been an MLM distributor.

  18. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 4:02 pm


    You found the original “founder”, LOL.. what a perfect fit. 🙂 Zeus seems to be the hero.

    Thanks for the special reading lesson… that is some real education.

    How interesting…”an eternity of useless efforts and unending frustration.” 🙂

  19. Robin permalink
    February 13, 2012 4:19 pm

    Welcome Enough. Thanks for sharing your story.

  20. February 13, 2012 5:31 pm

    Enough! Thank you.

    You’ve inspired in me a poem…

    “Your story is unbelievable to the 95%ers, but very believable to Team members. Your story is believable to ex-Teamers, but very unbelievable to new Teamsters. I relate to your story more than you know, and I know more of your story than you relate. We’ve all gone through our version of ‘Team’ and the deeper we dove into our ‘Dreams’ the more we dissociated from the truth it seems. On Amthrax, the more we relate the more we share which leads us to discover the truth we dare. Your heart it still hurts, for it stings when it tears, your courage is admired to inspire those that are tired to stand for whats right and do what it bears, for I no longer climb on those sandy beach stairs. My dreams are not built through gold covered glasses for I see from within what this business has done to the masses.”

    Cheers **beer mugs clink**

  21. Finally permalink
    February 13, 2012 5:41 pm

    One clarification, I am sure people to hit PP legitimately at times and faked it other’s. As bad as they are for claiming “character” and “integrity” above all else and then doing the opposite I do not wish to take away legitimate work either. That being said, THEY ARE CHEATERS!!! LOL. I mean cheating to go down to Orrins house Puleeeeez………Oh and after the Triple PP weekend to O’s I was told they drooled all over their team about it at a system party, the Jarvinens were there too, and they are part of the same spine so they did not qualify either. My point is this, after edifying and trying to get their team to move on behind closed doors they complain incessantly about the endless meetings on such weekends and that Orrin is not a very good host. I did hear that Tim Marks is a tremendous host when he had groups down to his house. Again I do not want to take away what the guy’s do the is legitimate. But the facts are still that they aren’t whom they claim to be…………In my opinion based on what I have witnessed and heard first hand LOL

  22. Vogel permalink
    February 13, 2012 6:59 pm

    Great poem KC! Have I mentioned lately how much I love this place?

  23. Over and Out permalink
    February 13, 2012 8:35 pm

    As for the power player question~ We had our upline lie about power player a couple times and totally busted them in the act and they continued on with being recognized and told everyone how they did it! It made me so sick. In fact one of these times we had no one in at all under us in our first team for months(we weren’t really doing much anymore) and then we find our upline is going to the PP promo party! A little confused we confronted them on this and they were using applications of a couple people from 6 months prior. These people filled out apps but then they could never get a hold of them again so they were never entered into the system. So what do you know, 6 months later when they need to prove to people that don’t know any better that they are “rock stars” they pull out the old apps. After we confronted them about it they ended up signing them up with there own credit cards because they had all there info and a signature. It’s pretty pathetic.

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 9:54 pm

    Over and Out~

    O.M.GEE, I would love to have the name of those couples and their phone numbers!! I bet they don’t even know they are in a scam and would think if they don’t know that it could be some serious trouble for your ‘upline!’ These guys will stop at NOTHING! It is no wonder the #1 cardinal rule is NO Cross-lining!

    KC~ Beautiful poem! It is a beautiful thing when you can express your true self! Thanks for sharing a part of You! 🙂

  25. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 13, 2012 10:02 pm


    I understand and know what you are saying but also know that (some) cannot hide their true colors have and will stoop to almost anything to make themselves ‘look’ and get others to Keep ‘believein’. So very sad, that the PC have sold their souls because they weren’t willing to do the right thing and didn’t give a rip who went down to keep their ill-gotten gains.

    Remember your team will do 100% of what you do Wrong, and only 50% of what you do right…example is the ONLY thing….blah, blah, blah! LOL

  26. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 14, 2012 5:54 am

    Amthrax- You’re absolutely right. It is a sandcastle. You simply can’t maintain the pace personally so you MUST “leverage” with other people. The problem is this- they run into the same issue and the problem compounds itself. But in order to stay in the good graces of the gurus you can’t admit this or show failure. This in turn can cause the temptation to “fudge” things a bit. And so it goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on… Keep your integrity and lose or give in. The choice is yours!

  27. Finally permalink
    February 14, 2012 10:31 am

    Speak, I was just throwing them a bone, they are pathetic to claim it is all about results…..and then when they are incapable of getting results they manufacture results thus, perpetuating the lie. The PC knows this and when they have to confront it they call it a GRACE society………….so so so very sad……..

    Over and Out we witnessed the same things and were even encouraged to get apps “no matter what it took”. There is also the indirect pressure to do so. I am sure that is what couples like the Martins do and go through. I high level speaking couple confronted Tim and he gave them the die to self speech………..They should have gave the ” no Tim they are liars and now that you know, if you do nothing you are a liar as well” speech to Tim. It is all about situational ethics with them. And that is why it will never ever get bigger than it is.

  28. das permalink
    February 14, 2012 6:53 pm

    Enough! Thank you for sharing your story. Orrin the manipulator is a sad example of a so called leader. I’d like to hear his answers to your questions, and many more. How many more families have to be hurt before Orrin repents for using people and sucking them dry? He justifies this by his catch phrase, “the end justifies the means”.

    I remember one of his big lies that anyone can make more money than the person who got in first. Really Orrin? If that was true Chris Brady would have blown by you 15 years ago. You’re still the king aren’t you? The guys at the top of Team suck the life out of 99 percent of the followers who are being deceived by your lies. Those are the ones I feel sorry for. The real King will judge you one day Orrin.

  29. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 14, 2012 11:18 pm


    Great points! I know of many builders who would have blown by their uplines but there are those PC uplines who would deliberately sabotage their downlines groups. We have seen and experienced this many times; our PC sabotages and blew many people out! So that wouldn’t happen because they won’t let it! And with all the “special deals” that would be impossible.

    More BS they love to regurgitate: “That the business is a level playing field for everyone”; is another flat out Lie. For God’s sake it isn’t even a fair business let alone performance based,(another lie) and not even close to a “level playing field” Not “everyone” will get the special welfare deals ‘given’ to them!

    And if Orrin wasn’t “given” a special TOP spot in MV with all the Amway groups (he never built, NO performance from Orrin there, except manipulation and coercion) and if He and the PC didn’t manipulate and steal and “vote out” other builders taking their incomes and teams so they could ‘redistribute’ their teams to the poor souls who apparently can’t go do the work, or they ‘desperately’ needed some ‘false believe’ because they were ‘losing numbers’ and have the markings for the good ole boys club, then I highly doubt any of them would even currently be PC!

    The biggest kicker is they have the #1 cardinal rule of No-Cross-lining but yet they steal and vote out leaders, ‘redistribute’ “cross-line” groups and poof, all of a sudden those people are forced to now ‘cross-line’ and even Mentor with their ‘new’ cross-line upline and downline!

    Such is the case with all the solicited groups and “special deals”..Haugen, Florence, Smith, Crawford etc, etc.. their coreced leaders and ‘redistributed groups. Who now are in their previous cross-line groups!! And no doubt had NO choice of whose groups Orrin and the PC “picked” they ended up in and Orrin and PC picks who gets those hand-outs! Without a doubt Quixtar/Amway could confirm just how Orrin’s group was laid out in Amway and then Monavie…and the PC know it isn’t a “performance based” (lie); they tell people it is!

    Their Hypocrisy is astounding; looking forward to the day, all they do and have done and all the Lies and deception to keep people believe-in for their selfish ill-gotten gains… catches them by the mighty force they will have to contend with! We will all know that mighty force is what will be responsible for true justice!

  30. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 15, 2012 4:50 am

    The whole concept of passive, residual, B type business income in this farce is all a mirage. Our goal always was to build our income large enough to live debt free within a comfortable lifestyle, not an extravagant one. We just wanted our time back more than anything. It became painfully obvious that this would never happen because if you disconnect from your upline to live your life for you and your family instead of the Team you are ostracized from the community. This is literally guaranteed in LIEF because of how the P&P are structured. Just read em real close Teamers, YOU ARE SCREWED! Nice move Owen. I’m sure God is proud.

  31. Enough! permalink
    February 15, 2012 4:59 am

    Thanks everyone for all your encouragement! I hope getting our stories out will resonate with some people that are still in the Team and help them see the light! Here are a few of the answers our PC gave to us to our questions:

    Q: Where had many big leaders gone?

    A: I don’t know, they aren’t in my business so I wouldn’t know. (yeah right you don’t know…your a PC and these are people who have been with you since the beginning and through the lawsuits and Monavie. 1st lie)

    Q: Was this a B-type business and willable?

    A: Yes (darn, I wish I seen the P&P before that to show him that’s a complete lie! 2nd lie)

    Q: Was there a benchmarking study?

    A: Uh, yes but he hadn’t seen it. We could ask Orrin. (How have all the PC not seen this study when they touted this as one of the main reasons why we joined Monavie? 3rd lie)

    And on it goes….

    [Editor’s note: re-formatted Q&A for better readability]

  32. Natalie permalink
    February 15, 2012 8:04 am

    Thank you Everyone for sharing your personal accounts of your experiences with TEAM/LIFE. As Amthrax and Speak Your Truth mentioned, if only there was one phrase or story to which people could related to to life the shroud of secrecy that Orrin et. al. are so very good at using to blind people from the truth; that this is an unfair, and unsustainable business model.

    I think instead of just one story, the only way the light of truth can shine through Orrin’s fog is more and more people coming forward with their stories and Amthrax, your blog is a tremendous asset and platform to encourage people to come forward with their stories without fear of persecution (or litigation) from current TEAM/LIFE bullies.

    I’ve been personally involved with Quixtar/TEAM/MonaVie in Claude & Lana Hamilton’s network. It was my parents who got me involved. For whatever personal reasons they have, they are completely sold on the idea that TEAM/LIFE is the ONLY answer to financial freedom. They’ve been involved with Claude since 2003, still are, and have made NO MONEY. When I ask my Mother ‘why do you think you haven’t seen success at this yet?” To which she replied “Because your Father and I still have growing to do. We need to change.”

    This is the saddest part of this organization that has been discussed many, many times on this blog: The cognitive dissonance distributors experince between constantly being told “You can do it. You can have what I have. Just do what I do. Follow the system.” and when they do that yet no success materializes, distributors are told “You haven’t improved yourself enough. You haven’t grown.” and then…”Here’s a CD, book, ticket to a seminar.” Distributor loses more money, PC gets richer.

    This is, I think the crux of why people like Orrin, Chris, Tim, Claude are a bane to free enterprise. They are cockroach capitalists. They are diliberatly proliferating an unsustainable business model, only profitable to those at the top, because of a few loopholes in the legislation regarding MLMs. They’re also purposefully exploiting people’s insecurities, wants, desires, dreams to acheive their own goals, not the goals of others as they so vehemently preach. The crowning acheivement of the PC, and Orrin, is creating a community of people blindly devoted to financial superiority.

    I’ve been out of TEAM/MonaVie for quite a few years now (of which my money thanks me for) and have noticed a staunch change in my own thinking. I was free to think critically again. However, knowing my parents are still involved in this business, I began researching the MLM model which led me to this blog amongst others. I finally mustered enough courage to address the facts (i.e. the Policy & Procedures doc, and the LIFE Compensation Plan) with my parents. I sent them an email containing my thoughts and their response was, either you support us in this endeavour or never speak of it again. They completely ignored their own flesh and blood and couldn’t even condescend to have a frank conversation about the facts. They perceive anything critical of TEAM/LIFE, even if it’s supported by evidence, as a negative point of view which is completely non sequiteur. Facts don’t involve emotions. Yet another example of how well Orrin and his flock employs a convolution of certain (strategic) values with the actual business model.

    Most recently, I posted on my parents and Claude’s Twitter the question “What’s up with this?” and a link to Amthrax’s post ‘Do As I Say, Not What I Do…[Updated]. Litterally, within a half hour, my Mother calls me to ask me if there’s any way I can remove that Twitter message. She told me how Claude had called her about this and was disappointed that I didn’t call him directly as his ‘friend’ to talk about this. I thought the use of ‘friend’ was a particularly low technique…I haven’t seen this guy in years, have never sat down over beers or coffee and talked about non-TEAM related things…how is that friendship? Accordingly, ‘friends’ would have no problem responding to a simple question, publically or not. During this conversation things became emotional and heated, of course, because to a TEAMster who is fully submersed in the cult, any form of dissent is a direct attack on them.

    Something else interesting arose during that conversation with my Mother; this has already been mentioned on this blog before but, she told me ‘they’ (I’m assuming she meant the PC and/or the TEAM grunts) are ‘watching’ this blog. Which, I think is great! Their attention is indicative of their worry about dissenting voices having resonnance with people. Needless to say, I never got a response and Claude promtly removed my Twitter message from his feed.

    In closing, I can’t thank enough Amthrax and Everyone who posts on this blog for taking the time to share their thoughts, experiences in public. This, I feel, will be the key not only moving the conversation in a healthly direction about how MLM schemes affect folks, but will be key in even starting a conversation! As we all know, the ‘leaders’ (a very loose term) on TEAM/LIFE don’t really like to talk about REAL truth like they portray themselves to. They prefer instead, their own message of persuasion presented as ‘truth’. Slowly, but surely, the real truth is coming to the surface…

  33. Team Member permalink
    February 15, 2012 10:18 am

    I’ve been on Team for over a year now and something came up recently that is really bugging me. Wonder if any of you have any information on Chris and Danae Mattis. Back in the Fall Leadership Convention, they were moved up to the PC level and got the ring and everything. A big ceremony for it. Now, I don’t see them listed as Policy Council members and I can’t find them anywhere on the speaking circuit. Its like they disappeared. All of you seem great and uncovering things..can you help with this one as I think this may be the final straw if they are gone.

  34. February 15, 2012 12:19 pm

    @Natalie: Thanks for sharing your story. If you don’t have any objections, I’ll put this comment into its own post for inclusion in the Reader Stories page.

    It’s unfortunate that your parents gave you the ultimatum. You have to hope that they will eventually come to their senses; and when they do, you’ll be there to support them and help them understand what they’ve gone through. Be sure to read Steve Hassan’s Freedom of Mind site (on the right-hand sidebar) for more information on how to speak to your parents.

  35. February 15, 2012 12:28 pm

    @Team Member – this is a very good question. Chris Mattis’ blog hasn’t been updated since November 3, 2011 (not that that means anything). Orrin’s blog post from October 24, 2011 in which he mentions the Mattis’ as new PC members is still up.

    TEAM (i.e Orrin) made it so you have to be logged in to view the TEAM Calendar. Are you saying that you can’t find them on the calendar?

    Does anyone know if the Mattis’ were present at the Winter Leadership conference in Visalia (seeing that they live in California)?

    Chris’ Twitter account hasn’t had a new tweet since Jan. 11, 2012. LIFE is still mentioned in his Twitter bio. It’s also mentioned in his LinkedIn account.

  36. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 15, 2012 12:57 pm

    @Natalie, thank you so much for sharing your story. Hang in there, I am confident your parents will understand the truth as well.

  37. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 15, 2012 5:53 pm


    Amazing story! Thank You so much for sharing and it must be diffi’cult’ to have to deal with this. I certainly hope Amthrax makes this a story post, in my opinion it is a great depiction of a cult so much it could be used as the poster story! This is common actions of what Team Lief does to people and destroys relationships including your relationship with parents! If that doesn’t blast open people’s eyes to the ‘cult’; I am not sure what does. You seem very strong and intelligent, Natalie and I’m so sorry you have to experience this farce and it is so sad they have your parents minds captive. I will pray for you and them.

    What a gutless and hypocritical reaction from Claude! If Claude meant it when he said about being a ‘friend’ and implied he was going to answer if you were to call; then why in the hell didn’t he call YOU! As far as I have known the phone lines have always worked both ways!

    These gutless, arrogant scumbags play the victim, as if you hurt them and claim they are such great friends,(mis) leaders, and guru’s to everyone, work through grace and conflict resolution and can’t even address someone publically about the facts on this site?

    They show the world they know they are not who or what they say they are, don’t practice what they preach, hide from the facts and it shows their guilt. There true character and false claims show through every time someone asks direct questions backed by facts! Courageous leaders?..Friends?…Conflict Resolution?..Christian?…Honest?…Integrity?….Guru’s?

    In my opinion based on the PC and others actions and our experience… No; they aren’t any of the above, just the opposite… What gutless hypocrites!

  38. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 15, 2012 7:10 pm

    @Amthrax, Interesting as well is the fact that the last time Chris Mattis posted anything on his Facebook account was November 3 as well.

    Seems as if he has disappeared for the last two months. Perhaps Team is growing so large, so fast, and he is doing so well he simply hasn’t had time to update anything. Hahaha…inquiring minds want to know ??

  39. February 15, 2012 7:31 pm

    We’ll see with the Mattis’. I don’t want to speculate at this juncture until there’s more information.

  40. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 15, 2012 9:08 pm

    @Natalie- Awesome post like everyone else is saying. I really appreciate you coming on here to share your story. I want to focus on the term you used “cockroach capitalists” I thought that was just outstanding! If you looked up that term in a dictionary you would see the PC! Also, I am so glad they are watching this blog! The truth won’t be stifled any longer!

    God bless everyone on here!

  41. February 15, 2012 9:22 pm

    The ‘Mattis’ are not on the Team calendar for seminars or opens. Not last month, this month or next month. They’re also not on the top 10 lists for media warrior, CDOW growth or sponsoring. Now that it’s been mentioned, I haven’t seen them on any lists for many months.

    Very interesting.

  42. February 15, 2012 9:40 pm

    Natalie: thank you for sharing your story. It will certainly help others with their own family struggles, probably in the same situation.

    Who are the leaders above your parents, below Claude & Lana?

  43. Team Member permalink
    February 16, 2012 6:13 am

    The Mattis’ are not listed on the TEAM Calendar. I don’t know if they were at the Winter Leadership Convention in CA. I first became suspcious when they have the PCs photos on the front cover of the phamplet they hand out at the Major and the Mattis’ were did not have their picture included. I asked my upline about this and he said “Oh, they are in California so they are probably just showing the pictures of the PC speaking here in Columbus”. Since then, I have been looking for them every week. Even though I wasn’t on their Team, they are still on of my favorite couples I looked up to and I followed them closely. IF THEY LEFT, Why?? After making it al the way to the PC level? Why Leave??

  44. switch permalink
    February 16, 2012 7:06 am

    Chris Mattis-
    I’m not going to speculate either but, seeing how you have your video floating out there still and sporting the M.V. shirt, I’d like to hear what you have to say/think on that “active” product, now….?

    You said at 3:50 that,…

    “we were thrilled when they lead us to the M.V. corporation”….
    “we honestly didn’t realize how powerful the products were”….
    “I have many injuries from fighting from patients”….
    “my pain level and inflammation level in my body have been so much reduced”….

    Tell me this mr. mattis… if I told you the same NOW, that you told us ALL about how “powerful” M.V. product are,…. what exactly would you think?

    I’m gonna take a shot in the dark here, but,…. I would put money on it that your reaction/thought is just as scary to you as it is to me that you were actually a psychiatric nurse at one point in time.

    Of course, a more bone chilling thought is o.w. posting this proudly up on his blog as one of his PC members.

    I guess we can all wait for him to write his “review”, right?.

  45. February 16, 2012 10:12 am

    @Team Member – Go directly to the source rather than through your upline. I would see if you can contact them directly via Facebook or LinkedIn (or better yet, through email or phone) and ask them yourself.

  46. Natalie permalink
    February 16, 2012 2:04 pm

    Amthrax – It would be an honour to contribute to you website and hopefully encourage other stories to be told.

    TruthSeeker, SpeakYourTruth, Freedomhaha – Your encouraging words are much appreciated and many thanks to you for taking the time to share your stories and reveal many of your personal experiences.

    Webelieved – Thank you for sharing; I’ve visited the link for Steve Hassan from Amthrax’s blog and found it extremely usefully in understanding the modus operandi of Orrin and the rest of the PC. I’ve also sent my Mom a copy of ‘All that Glitters is Not God’ and hope that she’s compelled to read it.

    One of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever been given that I am so thankful for is, when you are strongly convicted about anything, whether it’s a theory, or issue, or even your own religion, whatever, always study the opposing point of view to either strengthen your conviction or learn something new. Either way, you gain knowledge.

    The fact that TEAM/LIFE discourages even the vaguest hint of dissent to the point where they denegrate people, call them quitters, loosers, couldn’t-make-it-in-this-business, is disquieting to say the least…no wait, it’s down right frightening that folks would be ok with that kind of us-against-them mentality.

    Thanks again Everyone.

  47. February 17, 2012 10:29 am

    @Team Member – Chris Mattis updated his Facebook profile today and added “The LIFE Business” to his Pages. So, it would appear that he is still involved.

  48. TruthSeeker permalink
    February 17, 2012 2:25 pm

    @Amthrax, totally amazing how quick people respond when their name is in the spotlight on your blog.


  1. Reader Story: The Ultimatum – Support Us/TEAM or We Shut You Out Of Our Life! « AMTHRAX

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