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Orrin on Learning Through Failure

February 16, 2012

In light of Orrin Woodward’s latest post titled Leaders Learn From Failure, I want to highlight one of my first posts on this site (way back in July, 2008!). I agree on the general point that one can learn from failure; in my case, my utter failure at building a profitable Amway/Quixtar business prompted me to move onto more successful opportunities.

Orrin states that he wants to create an environment within LIFE where someone can continually fail:

LIFE provides both the leadership principles and a community for people to practice application. If a person does his best and fails, it isn’t an issue, since everyone is failing and learning continuously. Do you have a community that provides a grace filled environment to apply your leadership?

LIFE provides a safe environment to listen, apply, and fail, so a person can ultimately learn.

Note: Learn is not a synonym for succeed.

In Orrin’s system, one never truly learns the lesson that failure is mathematically predicted by the LIFE business opportunity. I thought people got into this business to make money???

Ponder on this as you read my story on how I succeeded by failing. Be sure to read the stories of ex-TEAM members and readers of this site too!

Here is a video of Orrin talking about failure and competence:

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29 Comments leave one →
  1. Katie permalink
    February 16, 2012 12:18 pm

    Hi Richard. We’re just trying to help other people from falling victim to the same horrible experiences that we had and we believe that Orrin plays a large part in what we see as a bad organization. You are entitled to your opinion, as are we! Glad you’re having success with your pyramid!

  2. Former Round Table permalink
    February 16, 2012 2:33 pm

    “If a person does his best and fails, it isn’t an issue, since everyone is failing and learning continuously. . . LIFE provides a safe environment to listen, apply, and fail, so a person can ultimately learn.”

    I think for once Orrin is telling the truth–EVERYONE in Team Life is failing continuously!!!!

  3. February 16, 2012 2:34 pm

    Richard, I think it’s destructive what Woody’s been doing. You cannot deny the overwhelmingly negative experience that is predominant with former TEAM and now LIFE members.

    People dislike him in particular, as well as network marketing BECAUSE of him.

    YOU get over it old man. He’s affecting your business too if it’s network marketing. Not in a good way either.

  4. Brent Hansen permalink
    February 16, 2012 6:02 pm

    @Richard Bliss Brooke,

    From one Idaho boy to another, isn’t America great? I love freedom of speech. Seems that perhaps you may be the one who is being a bit judgmental here, and I have heard that you do have a slight “God” complex yourself.

    Do you really know what has happened to many of the people on this blog, or do you even care? Maybe you are here acting as another industry apologist like Dooly and Thompson?

    I am amazed that this little ol blog that is full of silly posts, and half – baked- cockeyed stories would draw in one of MLM’s finest. Perhaps there is something happening here after all. Keep up the great work Amthrax, you are beginning to draw a crowd.

  5. February 16, 2012 7:02 pm

    @Richard

    “Dont you people have anything better to do with your lives? You don’t like Orrin. We get it.”

    No, I do not don’t like Orrin, I do not even know the guy, never met him. I despise his actions though. I do understand that ex-members hate his guts, and that they write about it here to come in terms with all that has happened to them when they were under his spell.

    “Lots of people don’t. Some people do. Get over it. More to the point get over yourself and your opinion. You are not god, judge or jury, the market place is.”

    I completely disagree that people give only their opinion here. I have read more facts about the TEAM/Life business than I have seen on the pro-LIFE-sites. And those facts speak for themselves.

    “And no, I am not in TEAM, LIFE , Monavie, Amway or any of their deals. I have my own pyramid scheme and it is working quite well for me and many others now for 35 years.”

    You talk about “many others” who are doing fine. Are those people working next to you or under you? I want to ask you specifically: Are the down lines in your group also making money, with a positive balance, or do you not care about that?

    I do not believe in a pyramid scheme at all. It is a system where the happy few systematically abuse the majority with just the promise to make money. And because there are always new people willing to step in (hopefully less because of this blog), the well never dries, and the happy few are able to continue their malpractices.

    Even more important, it leads to dependency. The moment you step in you have chained yourself into a passive-aggressive relationship with cult like behavior of the members. Not a real healthy environment for an independent thinker you really have to be, to be your own business man or woman.

    Of course this website hurts your business as well, even though it is not Team/LIFE or whatever. It should. As long as the industry does not “clean” itself from its abusive cult-like character, every person should be warned against it.

    So do not blame the messenger.

  6. February 16, 2012 7:03 pm

    pro-LIFE-sites should be pro MLM-Life sites.

  7. Mike Collins permalink
    February 16, 2012 10:07 pm

    Richard Brooke: First of all I’m really surprised that you would come on this thread and shoot your big mouth off in this manner. I thought that because of the fact that you have seen fit to write a compensation plan such as the one you have written for 21TEN that you understand and are addressing some of the issues that plague this industry. Because of this I had the impression that you were a class act.

    Now that I have read your post, if it really is the “great” Richard Brooke, I must conclude that you are nothing more than an ass hat the likes of your little sycophant buddy, Troy Dooly. I find it amusing that you have included yourself in the same category with Lief, Monavie, and Amway…..all three ridiculous business models. With 21ten’s 5 to 1 break even ratio I would say that your company doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as these shitty companies. However, after your post I can see that you fit right in with the rest of the douche bags.

    At least you got one thing right….the market is the judge. Nothing like a little truth to expose the crap that these companies are peddling to the masses. Good job jackass.

  8. das permalink
    February 17, 2012 12:56 am

    Now I see why the DSA is such a joke. A member of it’s Ethics Committee comes on here and has the balls to tell us to get a life? So Richard, you are aware of Orrin’s actions and this is how you respond? Priceless…

  9. switch permalink
    February 17, 2012 6:13 am

    Wow, richard!…. Coming on here and accusing all that they only have opinions? Have you read the statements coming forward, mr. brooke? Obviously not. Trying to save the day by invading a blog and solicit your own rip-off scam where most have been robbed of their hard earned cash…..good god, you’re just like all the rest of them.

    Gotta agree with das….absolutely priceless.

  10. February 17, 2012 6:51 am

    @das, switch and Mike Collins

    It says enough about the meaning of the “Ethics Committee”, doesn’t it?

    Is this a self-proclaimed committee BY the MLM industry, that wants to give the MLM-industry a better name? Who are the members? Is the Committee independent? How far is their influence reaching?

    Or is it as meaningless as those “top-selling” books those gurus and their members HAVE to buy themselves, or those “price-awarding” institutes which useless prices just for their inner circle.

  11. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    February 17, 2012 7:38 am

    I don’t know about the rest of you but seeing posts like Richard’s brings feelings of immense satisfaction. Collectively we are obviously hitting a nerve. Someone hand me a tazer, I’ve got just the spot…

  12. Mike Collins permalink
    February 17, 2012 8:38 am

    As I was speaking this morning with Brent Hansen I speculated, upon seeing that Richard has deigned to post a comment on this blog, that the only possible explanation for him doing so was he, Orrin, and Troy must have been hitting the sauce after the nights anmp awards show and he just couldn’t help himself.

    This is such a departure from his usual “wise old owl” position on all things MLM that it really makes you wonder what got his panties in a bunch.

  13. das permalink
    February 17, 2012 9:16 am

    I can see it now…Dick and Drooly, speakers at the next Team major, and strokin the almighty Orrin’s ego a little more. He needs it tho because it sucks to be an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. 🙂

  14. Mike Collins permalink
    February 17, 2012 9:26 am

    LOL Das! That’s what they all love….. Having their egos stroked by being told how awesome they are and what an asset they are to the MLM “community.” I guess that’s what the annual anmp gathering is………A veritable strokefest.

  15. outsider permalink
    February 17, 2012 1:07 pm

    Wow, I happened to come across an interesting site that made me think of all of your discussions and personal stories here. I wanted to share it with y’all any way (as I know many here will relate deeply to what is written there!), but then -just to make it even more pertinent- along comes a scamming apologist. . .what timing!

    So, check out: http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html

    See if you don’t agree with me that this guy covers it all really well! On top of a decent rundown of ‘pyramid math,’ he also does a great job pointing out the predictable results of the riculous market saturation situation (which lots of critics don’t even get to), plus the ethical nightmare and the personal nightmare that are inherent in MLM – just like you guys alway tell of. Be sure to check out the FAQ at the end where he “handles objections.” The guy is like “lazyman on mlm-condensed version.” 🙂

    (Do you folks know this one already? I found it so clear that I thought Amthrax might like it as an additional link in your list of info sites!)

  16. CGC permalink
    February 18, 2012 1:02 pm

    I think reaction to Richard Brooke’s comment, which in itself added nothing to this particular article, has derailed discussion about Orrin’s little sermon on “learning through failure”.

    My view is that it is unoriginal and shallow, and in light of what his true motivations are, it is insidious. He knows his followers are failing to make money, so he needs to string them along to keep the money flowing his way.

    Nevertheless, the actual ideas expressed are sound (though so hackneyed I can’t call them his ideas). So what happens when we apply these ideas to Orrin and TEAM? It seems to me that we see a business plan that consistently fails to pan out for almost everyone, so it does not even make it to step 2, “performing”. Therefore, by Orrin’s own account, he is not qualified to be a leader (step 3), let alone a developer of leaders (step 4) and developer of developers of leaders (step 5).

    Add to his triteness his dubious past and an annoying, whiny voice and I’m amazed anyone would want to follow him.

  17. Mike Collins permalink
    February 18, 2012 1:36 pm

    CGC: the dream of a “better” life is a powerful force……

    Loved your post.

  18. CGC permalink
    February 18, 2012 2:49 pm

    I would also like some feedback on this interview with Orrin:

    http://www.buildamagneticnetwork.com/6125/orrin-woodward-interview-team-life-and-leadership/#

    I listen to it and think that there is no substance to anything he says — his story is vague and lacks continuity. He says, “I got into networking” — but what was he selling? Then he’s five years into “networking” (selling what now?) when he hit that 50K wall, when he has an epiphany about leadership – what was it?

    Now his (vague) business is booming, and people are showing up at “events” and “locals”. And he reveals his cutting edge 4-point plan: information, progress, profit, and purpose. Supposedly one leads to the other, but he doesn’t say how, or how these are measured or to what extent participants succeed at any point.

    Then there are all these bland proclamations: “This could change the country, this could change the world.” We need to increase the capacity for leadership if we’re going to be able to maintain.” “True learning happens when you start really learning.”

  19. CGC permalink
    February 18, 2012 2:56 pm

    Indeed, “the dream of a “better” life is a powerful force….” as Mike Collins said.

    So is the propensity to be deceived when desperate:

    http://pbfcomics.com/253/

    Orrin comes to the rescue.

  20. rickdg permalink
    February 18, 2012 5:48 pm

    Wow!!!

    Getting good. Keep it up. Expose these crooks!

  21. February 19, 2012 12:50 pm

    Richard and everyone who’s commented on this thread:

    It’s not hard to post comments on this site under false pretenses. After all, all one have to do is enter a name, email address and website; in this case, there’s no need for Richard’s computer to have been hacked or his passwords compromised.

    Now, as the moderator of this site, I see the IP address of each comment, and this can serve as a useful tool for identifying fake comments. In this particular case, the two comments have come from two different locations in the same state.

    As CGC said, I think the recent focus on Brooke has taken us away from the topic at hand, which is Orrin’s discussion on learning through failure. Orrin’s advice — which is fine when spoken of in general terms — falls apart when used in context of building the LIFE business opportunity. Let’s steer the discussion back towards this instead of debating whether or not Richard posted the initial comment or if it was someone else trying to incite people here.

    I have removed the entire Brooke thread. So, no need to continue commenting on it.

  22. Mike Collins permalink
    February 19, 2012 1:16 pm

    Thanks for your vigilance Amthrax. Great job.

  23. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 19, 2012 2:21 pm

    Amthrax~

    I appreciate your efforts also but wish the comments hadn’t been taken down for the simple fact that Mr. Richard Brooke could have seen exactly why this site is even here and how the beloved industry full of integrity, honesty, BS lies really operates and no one being held accountable. Well, never mind…. he already knows. But it is a testament and shows how criminal some are also and what they do to try and ‘protect’; their ill-gotten gains!

    If in fact someone did ‘use’ Mr. Richard Brookes name; to possibly smear his name and this site and if someone did impersonate, then the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, there certainly is motive.. just sayin.

    Because and the fact that this site is about the truth and exposure of Orrin and his PC and other minions! The ‘industry’ and dealing with the opposition of the filthiest of dirty pool players, their greedy thought ou calculated games, and what we know they will stoop to; by the dirtiest and desperate in the ‘industry!’

    The ‘hacking’ for ‘hire’ and recent Lazyman site (as I speak, just checked and can’t get on), with some serious similar issues and ironically(not) when Troy was on here and pretended to be digging for truth, his site also got ‘hacked’..hmmm, bet he hasn’t had a problem since he left and choose to his doubled mindedness and call us “dull, negative, dissolution crybabies,” and began ‘promoting’ Orrin..just a guess, but so much hacking goin on!

    I believe it just shows the true nature of what we are dealing with from the evil, scummiest, cowards that can’t deal with any truth being told, and who try and shove it underground. Just a look at reality inside the world of corrupted folks..and just my 2 cents.

    But maybe it is all just for ‘fun’ so we can ‘go on’ now,…. “failing our way to success!” and dealing with the filthiest, dirty pool players, never a dull moment on Amthrax!..haha

    I have witnessed the old fashion way of how dirty pool players operate and how they were dealt with but we are in the ‘information age’ now… more rhetoric from the Lie..f…ers..sorry.

    Perhaps now there will be the ninth “F” added for FAILING! Would and could be the only “F” needed at least for the majority; because it is guaranteed!

    .

  24. Speak Your Truth permalink
    February 19, 2012 3:38 pm

    One last thing. If it wasn’t the ‘real’ Mr. Richard Brooke who orignially posted, then he deserves a sincere apologize for my comments that were disrespectful to him. So, I do apologize to you, Mr. Brooke.

    And if indeed, it was an impersonator, illegal hacker, then you could put it up on ‘your’ website what action you took and how you held them accountable for this. I hope they are held to the fullest accountablity and you press charges.

    Back on topic.

  25. Natalie permalink
    February 20, 2012 8:31 am

    Yet another example of Orrin obfuscating and distracting the critical thinking faculties of his followers from the reality of MLM business model. Yet another ploy to string people along by making them think they have to ‘improve’ or ‘grow’ to have success in this business model. The structure of an MLM and the compensation plan just simply does not allow for success of the people who aren’t at the top. Money funnels up, scraps trickle down at Orrin’s discretion…but just enough to keep the belief alive.

    What is particularly underhanded is the use of the Divide and Conquer tactic he uses so often: “Do you have a community that provides a grace filled environment to apply your leadership? LIFE provides a safe environment to listen, apply, and fail, so a person can ultimately learn.” He plays to people’s insecurities to keep them hooked on the product. It’s sad. It’s always Us vs. Them with this guy. If Leadership is about bringing people together, why the divisive rhetoric constantly? Dirty.

  26. CGC permalink
    February 22, 2012 2:17 pm

    From this Jerry Chen’s fawning interview with Orrin:

    http://www.buildamagneticnetwork.com/6125/orrin-woodward-interview-team-life-and-leadership/#

    There is the following exchange:

    Craig Godeke:
    You tossed him a few easy questions wrapped in adulation. I found there was no substance in anything Orrin said. Now his (vague, no product) business is booming, and people are showing up at “events” and “locals”. He reveals his cutting edge 4-point plan: information, progress, profit, and purpose. Supposedly one leads to the other, but he doesn’t say how, or how these are measured or to what extent participants succeed at any point. Why didn’t you ask why the Life plan has a 21 to 1 break even ratio and close to 50% of all compensation dollars are going to less than 1% of their entire distributor force.

    Jerry Chen:
    Hey Craig – Feel free to toss him “hard” questions that you find appropriate, produce an interview like this for the world to see. Be sure to quote those stats in your comment and be able to back them up with a reliable source… I look forward to watching it 🙂

    Craig Godeke:
    Jerry Chen: yeah that would be fun to watch! Post a slightly critical or probing comment on his blog and it mysteriously disappears. I’m sure he would be less than willing to actually be grilled with some substantive questions. Great manipulators know they must always control all information (see Jim Jones or Kim Il Sung as Orrin’s predecessors).
    Here are two more objective stories that dug a little deeper and less sycophantically:
    http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2008/0811/050.html
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/cougars/53061545-79/monavie-company-distributors-percent.html.csp

    So, what are the hard questions you think Orrin should be asked in Jerry’s next interview?

  27. February 23, 2012 9:31 am

    He can start with these 50+ questions:

    https://amthrax.wordpress.com/fifty-questions-for-team-life/

  28. CGC permalink
    February 25, 2012 10:31 am

    How did Jerry Chen react to my criticisms of Orrin? Like a typical MLM “leader” — blocked my comments. Actually, he first ignored all direct questions and threw out some red herrings about “nobody being 100% perfect”, then just put his hands over his ears and shouted “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!”

    These guys are such a classy bunch.

    It makes me think of Bertrand Russell’s “A Liberal Decalogue”:

    #6. Do not use power to suppress opinions you think pernicious, for if you do the opinions will suppress you.
    #8. Find more pleasure in intelligent dissent that in passive agreement, for, if you value intelligence as you should, the former implies a deeper agreement than the latter.
    #9. Be scrupulously truthful, even if the truth is inconvenient, for it is more inconvenient when you try to conceal it.

    http://www.panarchy.org/russell/decalogue.1951.html

    This obviously won’t make the LIFE reading list.

  29. Freedomhaha permalink
    February 25, 2012 3:53 pm

    Ask him why all the seminars are the same.

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