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Why Don’t They Just Give Every TEAM LIFE Policy Council Member Leadership Guru Status?

April 16, 2012

Saw this tweet the other day:

Sigh. Arthur Carmazzi might as well just give every TEAM LIFE Policy Council member “Leadership Guru” status. Read this article about the sham that is LeadershipGurus.net.

Though the list states it’s for 2011, it’s actually a little different than the list on December, 2011 (archived on July 23, 2011). Compare them below. In the second column, the previous ranking is displayed in parentheses. New entrants have been listed in italics.

December, 2011 April, 2012
  1. John Maxwell
  2. Ken Blanchard
  3. Stephen Covey
  4. Marshall Goldsmith
  5. Tom Peters
  6. Anthony Robbins
  7. Orrin Woodward
  8. Robin Sharma
  9. Arthur Carmazzi
  10. Warren Bennis
  11. John Baldoni
  12. Chris Brady
  13. Jim Collins
  14. Jim Clemmer
  15. Sally Helgesen
  16. Harvey Mackay
  17. Phil Dourado
  18. Flip Flippen
  19. Marcus Buckingham
  20. Narayana Murthy
  21. Eileen McDargh
  22. Barry Posner
  23. Paul Bridle
  24. Subir Chowdhury
  25. Richard Chang
  26. Samuel Chand
  27. Mark Sanborn
  28. Jonar Nader
  29. Rosabeth Moss Kanter
  30. Andrew Grant
  1. John Maxwell
  2. Stephen Covey (3)
  3. Ken Blanchard (2)
  4. Robin Sharma (8)
  5. Warren Bennis (10)
  6. Orrin Woodward (7)
  7. Tom Peters (5)
  8. Marshall Goldsmith (4)
  9. Arthur Carmazzi
  10. John Baldoni (11)
  11. Chris Brady (12)
  12. Mark Sanborn (27)
  13. Jim Collins
  14. Phil Dourado (17)
  15. Harvey Mackay (16)
  16. Paul Bridle (23)
  17. Samuel Chand (26)
  18. Rudolph Giuliani (new)
  19. Narayana Murthy (20)
  20. Eileen McDargh (21)
  21. Barry Posner (22)
  22. James M. Kouzes (new)
  23. Thomas A. Kolditz, PhD (new)
  24. Dr. Sheila Murray Bethel (new)
  25. Bo Short (new)
  26. Mary Stutts (new)
  27. Subir Chowdhury (24)
  28. Marcus Buckingham (19)
  29. Flip Flippen (18)
  30. Sally Helgesen (15)

Falling out of the “revised” 2011 list are:

  • Anthony Robbins (6)
  • Jim Clemmer (14)
  • Richard Chang (25)
  • Jonar Nader (28)
  • Rosabeth Moss Kanter (29)
  • Andrew Grant (30)

I see that Bo Short is on the list at #25. Carmazzi should get Orrin and Bo together to talk about Amway and Qrush. I wonder if there will be any “conflict resolution” happening between the two of them.

To me, it’s simply a re-arranging of the deck chairs on this sham leadership list run by Arthur Carmazzi and his Directive Communications company. At least he didn’t rank himself higher than he did the previous year.

53 Comments leave one →
  1. webelieved permalink
    April 16, 2012 9:04 pm

    What a joke! Who puts themselves on their own list! lmao! I cannot believe people buy into this! I suppose Carmazzi is in mlm or sells books to mlmers? That Orrin promotes this is HILARIOUS! Anyone can write a list. Let’s write the top 20 leadership gurus according to Amthrax. I vote for finally and speak and former round table, lol! Than we can promote ourselves and each other, do you think our families and friends will give a dam? Oh that is right we live in the real world, not a cult where they worship people as idols.

  2. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 16, 2012 10:12 pm

    Webelieved~

    You are hilarious. I also agree with Amthrax. I find it most suspicious that Bo Short would be added especially as Amthrax pointed out about Qrush (Orrin). I don’t think that was by accident.

    What is not funny though is how many people will be fooled by this, repeat it without an ounce of research, and they expect people to take that site as some kind of ‘authority’ on “leadership” ranking or status in the world?

    Amazing… That they are still promoting this as if it is the end all be all award. We have seen this too many times and will continue to see the defenders ‘using’ it as the argument that Orrin & Chris are gurus because this site said so… and promoting as if it is a prestigious award.

    You are right, where in the ‘real world’ is this even accepted or do people honor this self proclaiming of awards? What would there Pastors, Tom Ascol and Steve Camp and the members of those churches think of this and do they promote them as “gurus” also?

    We have seen it doesn’t matter the “means” they use to promote themselves as long as it gets people ”believing” and “promoting” then the gullible will buy it and promote it too. They should be ashamed, that they get others to put their trust and belief in self promoted and proclaimed awards.

  3. Katie permalink
    April 17, 2012 5:10 am

    Speak and webelieved, I couldn’t agree more……
    I can’t believe they still promote this, and worse I can’t believe people buy into it…..
    Thank you Amthrax for continuing to bring this to the light!

  4. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    April 17, 2012 6:24 am

    I liken nomination from this yahoo to a fart in the wind.

  5. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 17, 2012 11:34 am

    I QUIT (and glad I did)~ ROFL!

    How could there be 2 ‘different’ lists for the same year as Amthrax pointed out? Hmm…Perhaps they mis-counted the votes… and had to have a ‘recount’. lol 🙂

  6. What the??? permalink
    April 17, 2012 1:11 pm

    Who are these people on the supposed “guru” list, and who Flip Flippen cares?

  7. April 18, 2012 7:03 am

    Hi I was on that list. My name is Jonar Nader. I never asked to be on the list. They sent me an email saying that the new votes are up for grabs, and would I ask all my friends to go vote for me. I did not do this. I would never go to my contact list or Facebook list and ask people to vote for me. What’s the science in that? So, as a result of not asking my mates to vote for me, I was kicked off the list. We live in a world of popularity. It’s all about the numbers. Cheers.

  8. April 18, 2012 8:59 am

    Jonar – Thanks for commenting. This is good to know, and further reinforces my belief that the site is a vanity press and affiliate marketing website run by Carmazzi. Read here for a more detailed analysis of the LeadershipGurus.net.

  9. Brent Hansen permalink
    April 18, 2012 9:38 am

    Jonar, you are the man! Thanks for you comments.

    Hilarious how people who seldom have little else to offer others need to focus on bogus titles. I am sure that Maxwell, Robbins, Blanchard and many others do not even know about this list or acknowledge its validity. And I am sure that they do not include recognition given by Carmazzi in their bios.

    True leaders do not talk about how great they are but simply go about quietly doing good and serving others. Veneer leaders and their veneer followers parrot the same old rhetoric over and over. It really grows tiresome, but remains entertaining.

  10. switch permalink
    April 18, 2012 10:41 am

    LOL!!!! I love it!!!

  11. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 18, 2012 3:31 pm

    Brent- Well said! The works of real top leaders speak for themselves. I highly doubt that Maxwell ever had to game the NY Times list in order to become a best seller. As I was leaving TEAM right at the launch of LIEF my upline started a rumor that John Maxwell would joing TEAM. He indicated that he would work with Chris and Orrin to “make this the best leadership system even better”. Well, turns out that was a lie, go figure.

  12. Mesha permalink
    April 18, 2012 6:40 pm

    Wow…how pathetic can they get?

  13. webelieved permalink
    April 19, 2012 5:49 am

    Mesha- Pretty pathetic, that is how they operated all the time! If Chris was on the board at Quixtar it was because Platnim and above were told to vote for him. The LLR book was a “bestseller” because we were told to preorder them in bulk and get our team to do the same. It was never like the real world made it a best seller, we did. They just keep milking more and more money out of their loyal, brainwashed followers.

  14. April 19, 2012 5:56 am

    @Freedomhaha

    Lying – a normal MLM pre-requisite, and one of the absolutely necessary requirements to make it big in this abhorrent pretend industry.

    Where from did your former upline learn about this lie? And who taught him it’s ok to lie to and/or manipulate others? No prizes for correct guesses that it’s duplicating his uplines, right? I bet there’s a teammunist in his group who sees this but dismisses it somehow as non consequential perhaps (cult adherent say hallo to cognitive dissonance), yet shows up here and swears that they, your former upline and his upline gangsters, are saints right up next to Jesus!

    MLM is a pernicious pretend industry that cannot stand on it’s own self nor on any integrity as it has not a shred of the same. So the adherents develop such a desperate need to legitimize their specious industry, it’s ridiculous the lengths they will go to. It becomes, inter alia, rumors galore (little wonder) to prop up the evil deluge that MLM is. And they think they are doing this crap all in the goodness of “helping” people so it’s ok to lie and manipulate. I have never seen a lot of hood winkers so frantic at their scammy craft as MLMers.

  15. webelieved permalink
    April 19, 2012 6:06 am

    I agree sent down from the upline and approved by the mlm companies, why because they make a s#*$ pile of money! Discusting…..they use people and train them to follow the system…..forget their morals…..and use them and their relationships for the almighty dollar for the upline.

  16. webelieved permalink
    April 19, 2012 6:07 am

    exambot did you see my post on Pokerny vs Quixtar Settlement?

  17. April 19, 2012 6:11 am

    Not yet, would love to. Where abouts is it at?

  18. April 20, 2012 5:05 am

    Hey thanx – This is very interesting. No use for exambots to go away quietly if they don’t have to, so I will definitely share this for’em to decide upon it.

  19. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    April 27, 2012 10:04 am

    I’m missing my first Major in two years!!! I left because I just can’t deal any longer with the funnel of money that I’m losing every single month on this business.

  20. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    April 27, 2012 10:10 am

    And guys…I’ll admit I’ve been reading all your comments with intense interest and at times i’ve even argued with you guys. However, Life has beome more like a Book of the Month club..and you can buy stuff cheaper on Amazon.com. I already lost a vehicle because I was focused too much on the business plan….the next thing I would have been losing is my marriage if I kept going. Anyway…that is all I have to say…(walking away with head down knowing he has been beaten)……

  21. April 27, 2012 10:51 am

    @No Longer a Lifer – Tell us a little more about your story.

  22. webelieved permalink
    April 27, 2012 11:08 am

    No longer a Lifer- You should walk away with your head held high as you are getting your ability to critically think back! That is a HUGE victory! You were lied to and that wasn’t your fault. Of course the Team system indoctrinated you to feel like a loser if you left….. so they could get you to stay and keep spenging your money so you would always blame only yourself (and not the business) when it didn’t work the way they promised. I am glad to hear you are saving your marriage and would bet after a few months out of the propaganda system you will be glad you left. I too almost lost my marriage by being involve in this for years. I am so glad that didn’t happen and the longer I am out the more glad I become! I hope you can share your story. It can be very painful and confusing when we first come out. We feel like we are losing a lot, but a lot of the things we believed will change after we are out for awhile and our thinking becomes clearer. Good luck and welcome!

  23. webelieved permalink
    April 27, 2012 11:13 am

    It is very sad to believe in something so much and than figure out it isn’t what you thought. I feel for you and know where you are at. 😦 I hope your spouse will love you through it. I really recommend a book called All that Glitters is Not God for Christians and Combattting Cult Mind Control for anyone coming out of this group. I didn’t believe the cult thing until I read about others and saw the similarities. It helped me understand how I had been duped and how the group controlled me. How they controlled the information I was getting and why I believed so deeply in what I was doing. I was wondering how many cds you were listening to? Those to me are the most dangerous to people.

  24. webelieved permalink
    April 27, 2012 11:19 am

    I want you to know when I was engrained in propaganda I too made fun of critics. It is what we were taught to do. You are forgiven and we won’t rub it in your face. 🙂
    We all did it, or at least thought it. We are here to help people stay free of get free. Welcome and I hope you stick around! Thanks for sharing! I really believe you could help people by sharing your story if you feel you’re ready. I have a last question, how have your friends who are still in Team treated you? Did you tell them you are out? Everyone that is still in ditched me and pretend I don’t exist. 😦 pretty common from what I am seeing.

  25. Freedomhaha permalink
    April 27, 2012 7:19 pm

    No longer a lifer- Thanks for coming on here and sharing! I don’t want to speak for anyone else, but I felt the same when I left. I felt like I had been beaten, but instead to echo others words you just won. We gladly welcome you to this great community. You will notice though that this community unlike TEAM/LIEF isn’t fuled by money instead helping people. Thanks for having the courage to share.

  26. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 29, 2012 10:06 am

    No Longer a Lifer~

    I second Freedomhaha’s & Weblieved’s comments, you no longer have to walk with your head down..NO! You can now hold your head high knowing you have at least stopped the bleeding (financial & emotional losses) for yourself and others. You are forgiven (for arguing with us) we understand, how dissonance works and honestly we want people to come to their own conclusions based on the facts and their experience. We have no financial motive!

    It is quite contradictory, but then that is standard MO; how they boast about their ‘mentorship/coaching’ improves all areas of everyone’s life, through their “book of the month club”(money draining=training).

    I say join Oprah Book of the Month Club, create one yourself, participate in a churches, or anyone elses (for free) who doesn’t have a financial and or other agenda’s as their MAIN self-serving ‘goal’!

    Funny how O used to say he would go to a major and get all “fired-up” then come home and not be “fired-up” (frustrated) because all they did was ‘fire you up.’ No sheet Sherlock! That’s because you can be ‘motivated’ all day long but if it you can’t apply it to a sustainable business, (which in their case it doesn’t) then it is a waste of time, energy, & money it is in vain. Besides they then say you have to be ‘self-motivated’ and quite frankly it is funny to me now but it makes you just act foolishly “fired-up” and very cultish to the outside world. O knew this all along, but has continued to do the ‘same’ ole ‘motivational’ gig for almost 2 decades! Knowing the only thing it does is frustrate people and keep the ‘what if’ fantasy, (insanity) alive; but it is effective and serves ‘him’ well, because it continues to drain others of their finances and energy. That would be… ‘leveraging’ others bank accounts to fill his bank account and the handful at the TOP! Quite the ‘deal’ for scamster, O.

    In reality, and unfortunately your story is the rule, for at least 99% of the masses, who lose cars, houses, bankruptcies, defaults, college funds, medical funds, savings, 401K’s, ‘anyway’=bill money for your family and worse they LOSE their TIME, self-esteem and dignity. It is still mind boggling how they can continue to say one thing (and people fall for it) when the results and facts are right under their noses and how they continue to argue they are ‘helping people’ when in fact they are hurting tens of thousands. Notice how they ignore that fact. And worse they expect people to blindly believe this and ignore those pesky little facts!

    They clump the masses into the same financial class as if the masses, without a doubt, will be in the top 7 (who we know some if not all did not get there based on their ‘performance’), if you just ‘follow the system and don’t quit’; the top7 (out of tens of thousands after years?) Should be the biggest clue; obviously are the ONLY ones that are making the real $/ profit.

    And the biggest lie of all, it is NOT based on a ‘fair and balanced’ profit-sharing plan! Contrary to the spinsters, because O decides, when, how much, or EVER will you get paid, or continue to get paid. So nothing else matters if the dictator/tyrant at the top determines your ‘pay’ or NOT, at a whim, regardless of your results based on numbers or how many thousands you bring in, or what they have promised and we are a prime example of the truth in that!

    It is a bold faced lie for them to claim or promise anyone passive, residual, ongoing blah, blah, blah. How can it be?… When O CONTROLS it all…even how you think, act, and feel!( see LIEf P&P). And to falsely ‘teach’ or use RK cash flow quadrant; you are told how you will be a ‘B-type business owner’ is another despicable LIE. RK himself says you have to “OWN the system” to have a b-type business, so therefore it is impossible for the masses to have a ‘b-type’ business/passive, they ‘own’ nothing! The proof is in the facts. Who OWNS the B-type business in the case of LIEf Team?…Simple! Just because they ‘tell’ you are a ” b-type business owner” doesn’t make it so! Read the P&P and look up who “owns”: LIEF and TEAM! Does anyone else recognize the LIES and insanity?

    I am Happy for you, No Longer a Lifer… you are now truly blessed and I appreciate your humility and honesty. It takes guts and courage to recognize, humble yourself and tell the truth!

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    April 29, 2012 11:57 am

    It really isn’t like a “book of the month club.” I don’t know any other BOMC that you have to ‘pay’ to participate. And why would you?…After all isn’t the (emotional) “Goal” to get others blinded into ‘believing’ it is the ‘information’ to ‘change your life’ is the most important?…pfft. Anyone that will pay attention to ‘how’ the system works would know this to be a no-brainer and is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

    From experience the real “Goal” is to get others to ‘pay’ into the profit-sharing… Top 7 ‘richy lifestyles’ they flaunt, obtained; by the buy from yourself scheme, who continueally dump their money into the circulating distribution of wealth scheme,(from your distributing bank to theirs) then you must tell the world that it ‘changed your life!’?

    Not quite the ‘noble’ propaganda they promote….it is based on the same justification principle they use for their ‘fake’ awards and/or their ‘belief’ that the end justifies the means…Why haven’t anyone of them ever addressed those losses or damages they have caused intentionally by their lossing proposition?

    Nope they don’t even have the courage or guts to admit they have done any damage to anyone! IMO, it is a very cleverly ‘systemtized’ scam (“Those who control the information, Control the Wealth”)..they know exactly what they are doing in a very culstish way and have been getting away with it, shamefully for decades! Where is the FTC, IRS, DOJ, AG??

    Where is The “consumer protection”..Protection??

    Most “victims” of the scam don’t figure out unfortunately, until they realize either how corrupt they are, have gone bankrupt or they are ‘losing’ tens of thousands or lost not only money but their common sense and critical thinking too!

  28. Former Round Table permalink
    April 30, 2012 5:29 am

    I’m gritting my teeth while I read this morning’s Facebook comments about the fantastic (this was the best one yet!) major over the weekend. Seems Jim and Delores Martin once again won Power Player Top Gun. Same old, same old.

    I, on the other hand, had a truly wonderful weekend spent with family and friends, real people with REAL results in life. Sigh of relief.

  29. webelieved permalink
    April 30, 2012 6:06 am

    Wow- did they really win it? I have to wonder anymore what is real and what is a fraud on the Team?
    Round Table- Can you refresh my memory, were the Martins secretly hand picked for some Team freebies, like the Hawkins? I remember a commenter revealing their triple(?) power player was a sham at one time. Maybe you could fill us in.

    I am so glad I spent the whole weekend with my family as well! 🙂

  30. Former Round Table permalink
    April 30, 2012 6:44 am

    I don’t know if the Martins were given any free teams. I do know that they won the Power Player Top Gun ALL the time–it seemed they were always Quad or higher at majors. But they never seemed to move on! (Except for when they went Diamond in MonaVie, thanks to the credit card debt of a couple of their former leaders.) They were/are the absolute best at faking Power Player, signing up people’s dogs, babies, dead grandmothers, etc. They would even fake the system counts, figuring the cost was worth the recognition for their team.

    On the other hand, I am back at work this morning, doing REAL work for REAL pay with people that I respect. People who have REAL results in life, not phony BS hype.

    Ran into another former Team member over the weekend that I haven’t seen in a long time. The comment was made: “Once the blinders come off, it’s amazing how clearly we can see the scam.”

  31. switch permalink
    April 30, 2012 6:54 am

    Former Round Table-
    “They were/are the absolute best at faking Power Player, signing up people’s dogs, babies, dead grandmothers, etc.”

    You HAVE GOT to be kidding me……?

  32. Former Round Table permalink
    April 30, 2012 7:16 am

    Sorry, no joke there. Thought that was common knowledge.

  33. webelieved permalink
    April 30, 2012 8:54 am

    WOW! Never knew that one! …..how low can you go? shameful ! And to think I believed that was legit all those years! IT is SO sickening! Did their PC know they would do that?

  34. webelieved permalink
    April 30, 2012 8:56 am

    Former Round Table- Hope your friend is reading this site! 🙂

  35. Finally permalink
    April 30, 2012 5:02 pm

    Former Round Table is exactly right. I have had the privilege of talking to leaders on both sides of the mrtins Teams. And for a while there they were showing me there trees in MV. We counted the number of people in and looked at the profit sharers reports when they supposedly went Power Player and they never had either the depth or the systems to qualify. I guess the norm in their team was that if someone new signed up and they even agreed to consider system they were counted as being on system. From what I understand this was brought to Tim Marks attention by many leaders, even former triple 100’s and his default was to tell people to die to self……….seriously??? A supposed leader fakes recognition and the people who are suppose to be teaching the rest of the world about character and integrity turn the other cheek when something like that is brought to their attention. What else would you expect from guy’s that lied under oath in a court of law, stole people incomes, turned their back on child hood friends etc, etc……..I mean Tim also gave a guy on his team, tim jarvinan a leg of 50 systems and then paraded him on stage as a triple 50………and that pathetic couple gave a speech and encouraged others that they could do it too………character??? Integrity??? I also understand that the matins are now going to be grandparents…….I guess thats cool, they now have a new daughter in law…….I wonder why their kids are not in the business??? Aren’t they the ones that promote how great it is for families??? All the team recognition is bogus…….they have leaders that have lied, cheated, stolen, filed bankruptcy, foreclosed on homes, after they have been in lief for years…….how exactly can anyone take these people seriously??? Tim mentored 2 couples into bankruptcy, Cullens, and Darkangelos…….Up lines to tim, mark and anna huber filed bankruptcy, guzzardo put his name on a piece of land and because the economy didn’t go the way they wanted they foreclosed on the property…oh I am sorry it was a “strategic” foreclosure….that is what it is called when a team member backs out on a contract. Again I ask, how can you take these people seriously????? Everything they claim is wrong with “us” and the world outside of team is running rampant in team. Only difference is they are paying big bucks for the “information”…………

    I won’t get into the personal information that has been shared with me over the weekend about some of the families of the team leaders but man…they are suppose to have it together and rip on the world ouside of team for not having it together and all that they rip on they have in their own families……………it is a LIE for sure…………

  36. Former Round Table permalink
    May 1, 2012 4:55 am

    Don’t forget Birtles walking away from their house. And Mark and Anna Huber now live down the street from the Brady’s in North Carolina–I wonder how much they sold their Michigan home for? Oh wait, did they sell it? Or just walk away? And just where did they get the money to buy a home in Brady’s new neighborhood, just two short years after filing for bankruptcy?

  37. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 1, 2012 5:43 am

    Hi…so the Major I missed this weekend was supposedly the best on ever according to my upline who told me all about it. LOL. How come ever major they keep saying, “This was the best on ever” and nothing ever improves and numbers don’t up. I think this was the frustrating thing to me during the whole venture. By the way, thank you for all your comments. Yes, it is painful because I feel like I’ve given up on the dream…but luckily for me, I have some new dreams in my head and those are dreams that I want to work hard in my job and during my times off I will be able to enjoy some vacations with my wife and family like a normal American does.
    I’ve also hoped to seriously get into the “S” Quadarant and have a real legit business. 🙂

  38. webelieved permalink
    May 1, 2012 7:14 am

    No Longer a LIfer- I think you are on the right track!
    In team I thought it was my business but I owned nothing and had no control over anything. We invested EVERYTHING into Team, and they didn’t keep their end of the bargain!
    After doing the work and making it, they (the PC) took it away! That is worse than any job we could have had! I wish we would have spent all that time away from our family, money and energy building a real business, one that we owned.
    I am happy for you, you will be much better off, away from the liars! You can implement systems into your business and make it a REAL B- type income some day!

    Trust me while they are still working the scam, you can enjoy a good life and really spend time with your family!
    Good for you!

  39. switch permalink
    May 1, 2012 9:31 am

    No Longer a LIfer-
    …..“This was the best one ever”…..

    Good lord….if I had a nickel for every time I heard that one.

  40. May 1, 2012 10:31 am

    @No Longer a Lifer – There are many other ways to make money. Read some of the blogroll links on Lazy Man’s right-hand sidebar. There are a lot of personal finance bloggers with much, much better ideas than what TEAM/LIFE is offering.

    Lastly, remember that you haven’t given up on your dreams; rather, you’ve given up on Orrin’s dream (i.e. a million members in TEAM, etc.). Remember that as you embark on your next venture.

  41. Finally permalink
    May 2, 2012 3:20 am

    Excellent perspective Amthrax!!

  42. Finally permalink
    May 2, 2012 3:26 am

    And that Orrin bought the Brady “dream Home” in Michigan……….so you spend two years building the mac daddy dream home you have always wanted and just sell it to Orrin???? for pennies on the dollar??? That whole deal wreaks!! I still think bradys filed bankruptcy and hubers……well what can you say……..It is funny how when the rest of America is talked about from a team stage, Orrin and co rip on them to no end for the exact same thing his leaders are doing everyday…….In fact he goes so far as to celebrate their decisions and give recognition for it and slander the people that call him out for it………”men of integrity expect to be believed and when they are not time will prove them right” this one is gonna haunt Orrin one day if and when all of this becomes a public mess……..

  43. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 3, 2012 5:35 am

    Thank you all for your comments and perspectives..this does make me feel a whole lot better. 🙂

  44. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 3, 2012 5:47 am

    Glad to have you No Longer 🙂

  45. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 3, 2012 5:48 am

    I’ll tell you a little bit more that pushed me out of the Life/Team Business. After my first shipment of the monthly Life subscription I received a book I already owned along with cds I had already listened to. Same thing happened, month two and month three…finally it became a running joke with my wife and I as we were predicting which of the books we already had that we would be getting again. What a Joke. Ridiculous. Why are we paying for material we already own??? Same thing with the open meetings…we felt like lambs headed for slaughter week and week after week as we continued to hear the same things over and over and over again. I don’t understand why my upline, who has been in this business for years, would continue to buy the same matterial over and over again only in a different package?? The business no longer makes logical sense to me the way it did in the beginning. I guess the dream of being debt free quickly consumed me. ultimately though, my wife and i set oursevles on a path toward being debt free without teams involvement. But something tells me I’m preaching to the choir as I recount some of my story. 🙂

  46. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 3, 2012 8:20 am

    You might think that you are preaching to the choir, but I don’t think its crazy to believe that hundreds of TEAM/LIEfers are reading this. They could make the decision to become free (quit) by reading this blog much the same way I did.

  47. May 3, 2012 2:03 pm

    @webelieved Said

    “In team I thought it was my business but I owned nothing…”

    That is ditto for all of MLM.
    “…and had no control over anything. We invested EVERYTHING into Team, and they didn’t keep their end of the bargain!”…

    Because it’s a scam, they didn’t, don’t and won’t. Ditto for all of MLM.

    “After doing the work and making it, they (the PC) took it away! That is worse than any job we could have had!”

    That’s the way of the MLM scams and it’s scammers. Again ditto for all of MLM. It’s better for one self to stop participation at these scams because it’s continuance means leading others into this same exact position. That’s what many of us here sadly did. What’s noble in such? I am happy for you to be out, lest you might be responsible for leading other families into the same position by now, into the lions dens, no scammers’ dens.

  48. May 3, 2012 2:07 pm

    Take heart everybody we are not the scammers neither do we have a scam to hoist on others – just the truth. We are here because we know who the scammers are and what they do. There are many who are benefiting from your knowledge and this effort here. Take pride in that.

  49. May 3, 2012 2:24 pm

    @Finally says

    “I wonder why their kids are not in the business??? Aren’t they the ones that promote how great it is for families??? All the team recognition is bogus…….they have leaders that have lied, cheated, stolen, filed bankruptcy, foreclosed on homes, after they have been in lief for years…….how exactly can anyone take these people seriously??? Tim mentored 2 couples into bankruptcy, Cullens, and Darkangelos…….Up lines to tim,
    mark and anna huber filed bankruptcy, guzzardo put his name on a piece of land and because the economy didn’t go the way they wanted they foreclosed on the property…oh I am sorry it was a “strategic” foreclosure….that is what it is called when a team member backs out on a contract.”

    Holy Cow! Enaf said! I would rather be “Toby from Tacoma” than be in the midst of such nefariousness, not uncommon MO & OP in the pernicious pretend MLM industry.

  50. May 3, 2012 2:42 pm

    @No Longer a LIfer-

    ” …..“This was the best one ever”…..

    Good lord….if I had a nickel for every time I heard that

    one.”

    In MLM lingo it’s called promotion – a compulsory, obligatory, required (I can’t emphasis more) technique to have a shot at the pyramids tops. “You have to promote, promote, promote…” remember that line? It’s designed to deceive, manipulate and alter thinking processes i.e. brainwash. In real life it’s called deception and being a phoney. And to ahem, succeed in mlm you have to exercise it consistently and persistently on others (what a way to live!) Now you know, no surprise at your nickels count amount, right?

  51. May 3, 2012 4:08 pm

    Said No Longer a LIfer, April 27, 2012 10:10 am

    “Anyway…that is all I have to say…(walking away with head down knowing he has been beaten)……”

    Oh no you don’t walk away as such! Hold your head up high. Here’s why. When you were receiving and paying for the same books you already had that is the prime of MLM scam. Inside you must have known that was not right, right? Ok then. Would you be proud to introduce somebody else into, and put them in that scammers den for the same to be exercised upon their finances? Hell no, right? Alternatively heavens forbid you did that say times 2000 people for diamond! Do you understand all those people would be financing your lifestyle with their hard earned cash, people just like you trying to get out of debt, caught up in your would be scam, believing it to be the way out, but it ain’t, buying the same materials repackaged over and over? Do you now understand the magnitude of what you could have put a whole lotta families through? But you walked. Be proud, you walked, you did your family’s finances a favor! If that be a ray of hope that is great, with time you will come to terms with more or the rest.

    Secondly for details I don’t want to go over here but briefly, cult groups alter their members critical thinking to keep them entangled and from leaving. Walking presents one with feelings of walking out on the group’s ideals, goals etc, or even one’s such dreams/goals as derived while within the group. For further info and to understand this well please read the books recommended for you as well as the authors websites, there’s tones of valuable info waiting for you. Understand your dreams/goals are all still yours to go for.

    And BTW how is selling the same books and CD’s over and over to hapless souls within a cult group a business? Huh FTC? Huh odubious and the gang? This is not a business but a pernicious, pretend business for the purpose of extracting cash from brainwashed pretend business owners! This is ridiculous! Be glad you walked away No Longer a Lifer.

  52. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 7, 2012 7:45 am

    Thank you for your comments exambot. Yes, I would not want to gain wealth by feeding off the bank accounts of others so they buy the same material over and over and over again. I’m glad I walked away. 🙂

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