Skip to content

Mental Fitness Challenge

May 1, 2012

At last weekend’s Spring Leadership Conference, TEAM LIFE rolled out their latest tool/product, the Mental Fitness Challenge. The MFC is a program that aims to change people from “the inside out.”

The press release announcing the MFC is especially interesting:

The Mental Fitness Challenge (MFC) is here, and it is an adventure like no other. Developed by seven of the country’s top leadership gurus, nationally acclaimed speakers, and personal transformation experts, with NY Times and Wall Street Journal best-selling authors Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady leading the way (visit their highly acclaimed blogs here: ( and ), this program will awaken the mind and change lives. The MFC is a rare, comprehensive personal development program that provides those struggling with the opportunity to “Live the Life You’ve Always Wanted.”

Seven of the country’s top leadership gurus? We know it’s a stretch to place Orrin and Chris among the country’s top leadership gurus, but now all of the TEAM Policy Council members are top leadership gurus? Looks like they took my “advice” to heart!


Consisting of a variety of new materials combined with updates of materials that have proven timeless and effective year after year, the MFC format is presented as three modules – one for each month – that are packaged in stylish, protective casing. The MFC is strategically and effectively designed to exercise the mind and teach success thinking in the thirteen aspects of life covered in Orrin Woodward’s book RESOLVED: 13 Resolutions for LIFE. For 90 days, a mere three months of life, anyone has the chance to make an investment that offers a lifetime of returns.

In other words, the MFC will consist of recycled material from previous TEAM/LIFE tool packs. Current TEAM/LIFE members will have to buy these tools once again. After all, you have to have the latest version in the shiny new box!

Participating in a challenge or boot camp is usually done with the goal of losing weight, toning one’s body, and/or building muscle. In the bigger picture, it’s about feeling good and gaining a sense of accomplishment. These programs are great, and highly recommend; however, the one failing component of these programs is that they are temporary. Once the typical challenge or boot camp ends, there is a perceived ending—an invisible but powerful sensation. For some, the challenge may be the spark that leads to a life changed forever. However, for the vast majority, it was an undertaking that required all the motivation one can muster just to make it through, so continuing to follow the program is highly unlikely.

Grammatical mistakes aside, can’t this same analogy apply to TEAM’s quarterly major seminars?

This 90-Day Challenge never ends. Sure, the Challenge itself will only take 90 days to complete, but unlike a new diet or exercise boot camp, the transformation achieved is permanent. The Mental Fitness Challenge (MFC) will certainly require work, dedication, and persistence. There are no promises for instant results or miracles of any kind, but with faithful adherence to the program, thought processed will be renewed.

Of course, it never ends. That’s because TEAM LIFE wants you to stay on the program forever.

The same material that you can get in the MFC or in the TEAM LIFE tools, you can get for free at the local library or via the Internet. If you’re serious about improving your life, don’t look to one source for all the answers, look to multiple, independent sources.

If you have concerns about TEAM LIFE, read the TEAM LIFE Primer and the 50 Questions For TEAM/LIFE. Take the challenge of questioning your TEAM LIFE leaders, and see through their smoke and mirrors.

201 Comments leave one →
  1. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 1, 2012 1:34 pm

    I am really glad you brought this up because I was going to. I know Teamsters that are using this as ANOTHER way to contact people that have said no to the business. Its the same material over and over! When we know what material is in this for sure it might be a good idea to see how much cheeper you can get the information kind of like a Top 50 book list.

  2. May 1, 2012 5:06 pm

    Bottom Line:

    This is a way to get new people into a 3 month cycle to build numbers at major seminars. If they can convince people to commit to ONLY a 3 month cycle of personal development and growth, this commits the new person to attend the NEXT major and therefore they outta bring someone with them considering it changed their life, and it might change their friends life too. The bottom line is the PC’s are trying to figure out how to ‘solidify’ their existing base, ‘conquer’ new territory (new Team members) and ‘Domesticate’ those on system by sucking them into this fake ‘MFC’. In my opinion and experience, it’s the biggest scientific method for consistently sucking small amounts of money out of thousands of people’s bank accounts.

    And ‘leadership guru’s’ is hilarious… translated it says, ‘leadership ” G. U. R. Unintelligent ” to follow us! Watch your money and watch how this transforms into a ‘lifestyle’ choice.

  3. littledufflebagboy permalink
    May 2, 2012 4:07 am

    been out of team since August and got contacted about it last night by my old sponsor lol. 90 mental fitness that will help u in uh um things in your life. oh boy sign me up lmao. I didn’t realize I’m such a failure without it

  4. littledufflebagboy permalink
    May 2, 2012 4:10 am

    amthrax I should forward you this e-mail he sent me about it last night. it explains all the details. you know not explaining a thing kinda like team members have always done just beating around the bush 🙂

  5. Katie permalink
    May 2, 2012 5:10 am

    CK – perfect summary. and hilarious.
    littledufflebagboy – I also got re-contacted by my old sponsor – they must be really scraping for members, eh?

  6. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 2, 2012 5:35 am

    I just saw a video that showed how many people have been “helped” by the MFC. Interesting considering that it has been out two days. It is kind of like how they trot out the new LIEF business and show that they have these huge teams even though LIEF has only been a company for a few months! haha It all goes back to AMWAY and the same people have been on top all these years, but it sounds like they used to do it with bigger teams.

  7. Options permalink
    May 2, 2012 5:39 am

    such a waste……………….of my time to read watch or listen to the kettle calling the pot black>>>>>>>>>>>better things here i come

  8. Rick Beernaert permalink
    May 2, 2012 5:43 am

    Orrin and Chris aren’t among the top leadership gurus in the country they are listed #6 and #11 respectively in the world, check your facts. This would probably make the others that trained under them amount the top in the country at least. As far as your other comments you obviously don’t understand what the team is about or you quit being a member because you didn’t have the guts to do the work required to succeed for as I know, everyone who follows the team system succeeds. It also bothers me that someone could post an opinion on the Internet and not even give there real name, I have given you mine.
    Rick Beernaert

  9. littledufflebagboy permalink
    May 2, 2012 6:01 am

    yea they are desperate. he told me he missed having me at the majors. that’s right misses my business not our friendship. MFC is exactly what everyone on here knows. repackaged CDs probably in a different order. let me guess the final part of the 90 day challenge is going to the next major? I’ll stick to the library and the gym to better my life

  10. Mike Collins permalink
    May 2, 2012 7:05 am

    I hope everyone participating in this “challenge” remembers to take before and after pictures…….

  11. May 2, 2012 7:23 am

    I have never seen someone find so many ways to say the same thing over and over as Woody.

    So LIFE was launched in what, November? That lasted all of 5 months before they went on to another acronym to hide behind.

    If you think there will be another acronym before Christmas gimme a hell ya!

  12. Burned Out With Mona Vie permalink
    May 2, 2012 8:57 am

    Every time I hear of another “Mental Fitness Challenge” aka “Orionisim” or “Diamond Run” aka “Brigism”, I hope somebody will wake up actually compare the facts.

    The first contacts happened between MV and Orion in 2008 and Brig in 2005, so if Dallen did not call you back then it’s doubtful you have the right stuff to make it worth his while 4 to 7 years later.

    Sooooooooooo, lets see how all the IBO’s have been doing since then and nobody at the top is still “Just getting started”?
    (That line would make me puke since they were all Amway high rollers in the first palce)

    Ref the MV IDS’s the (da da da) “Average annualized income for all Distributors”
    (Numbers are so slanted by MV they are pretty much worthless, still they show a trend not factoring in a 90% plus drop out rate and are really reflective of less than the 1% who actually make anything at all off of this scam, but don’t tell anybody, it’s a secret)

    2008 $3985.09 – Not too bad if you are just buying the product (About $1800 a year for minimum autoship) and you have some left over for tapes and tickets.

    2009 $2918.22 – Better cut out the seminar tickets 😦

    2010 $1953.45 – Bye bye to the tapes 😦

    2011 $2104.11 – Headed in the right direction for one 🙂
    Whoops, this one factors in all the folks in all the new countries they started adding in 2009 and 2010 and everybody has tons of friends in forgin countries ready to sign up, right? 😦

    Guess I had better sign right up again so I can spend thousands of dollars a year to beat my head against a wall until my brains come out my ears and win the “Mental Fitness Challenge” then they will be so proud of me and not miss pronounce my name at the seminar.

  13. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2012 9:06 am

    Before and after pictures….Hahahahahahahah..MFC…That is a knee slapper!

    @BOWM~ OMg…more histerical laughing!

    @ Rocket~ Hell ya!

    @ Webelieved May 2, 2010
    And repeat…..What a pile….Not a thing has changed in decades!

    Thanks Amthrax and ya’ll for the laugh out loud experience today! 🙂

  14. yeah right..... permalink
    May 2, 2012 9:12 am

    … substance all hype

  15. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2012 9:43 am

    Could this be an ‘after picture’…..hahah

  16. May 2, 2012 9:45 am

    What do you see when you look at this new MFC crap? A mind game by Odubious and the gang perpetrated upon thought altered followers, nothing but a method to extract more cash out of the latter by the former through one more “new, it-will-change-your-life” gimmick (oh and HELL YEAH I am sure there’s one more being cooked right now that will be the latest greatest of them all, then, when it will be time for a new one). LIEf, now MFC?! The ink ain’t even dried up on LIEf? My question is why would anyone call this a business? In fact all of MLM? I reiterate it’s not a business but a pernicious, puerile, pretend (ahem) business, really just an evil con game.

  17. littledufflebagboy permalink
    May 2, 2012 11:20 am

    @webelieved- yea it was personally to me so i don’t want to use the link that he sent cause it has name and stuff just to be fair. is the website and there is a 10 minute video of orrin and chris. from what i understand umm ITS THE SAME THING ITS EVER BEEN! it sounds like a prettier way to have a cd listening contest. and it costs $220 oh man sign me up “I’ve spent that on a weekend i don’t remember hahahaha” remember those dumb sayings. and he said its like the P90X program except for your mind. yea trust me after doing that program i noticed a big difference in my diet and keeping my body fit. 90 days on system was a waste of the 6-7$ per cd. at least with P90X they have kept it the same for years! they don’t change the dvds every 3 months.

  18. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 2, 2012 12:15 pm

    The founding fathers have to be rolling over in their graves when they are quoted by these scam artists.

  19. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 2, 2012 12:17 pm

    When Brady called the first month “a double dose of medicine” I felt physically sick. Most of what they offer is good information, but in the way they give it to you it seems a lot more like poision.

  20. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 2, 2012 12:51 pm

    littledufflebagboy~ Thx for sharing.

    $220 WOW…wow….wow…wow…wow…it better have a ‘permanent’ effect!

    So you gotta love the deceptive implication it will last forever for only a 90 day challenge?…and you can get it for a ONLY costs a whoppin $220…for ONLY 90 days!!!! (Really the PC had a brainstorming meeting and ‘figured’ how much they could quarantee an increase in $$$ for them and called it MFC!)

    So lets see..This should be somewhere in the fine print: There is no guarantee it will be permanent we will just say it is, because we are master guru deceivers.. but we really have been testing this same gig of information since we began in Amway and on the same people for years with the same old results; Results? 100% QUIT… at least in our minds they fell out of ‘looking zone’ into the ‘loser zone’.. temporarily… we will begin the rechurning process again & again & again…. ..They only QUIT because they are losers and havent heard our lastest and greatest speal…so back to your old list ‘followers’…you been hanging onto and too chicken to contact for a decade and repeat the process… we only let the losers have a brief break from the process… then ‘followers’… kick up the stalking (re-contacting cuz we are fired up!). Tell them suckers we have come up with the NEW & IMPOVED fountain of youth (but don’t tell them it is a different name, different company or that it is the same old boat load of mind numbing info. ‘brainstormed’ from the PC over the last 90 days that we see isn’t working so we came up with something ‘new’..haha) that ‘sounds’ bigger, better, and more convincing!

    Sooo back to the ‘re contacting’ mode, to tell them ‘this time Orrin really is a genius and we have never seen anything like this kinda growth EVER’ people are ‘getting started’ like rats jumping off ships (lol)….Now begins the new MFC (PC happy, at least it buys 90 days) we have to re sponsor, rechurn, re indoctrinate, re contact, the same people we have for years even IF you have to go to people that you KNEW are cross lines groups or individuals and tell them O found the fountain of youth, life changing, transforming, breakthrough of all time (again) and steal them because it is a dog eat dog MLM world ya know..anything goes and we have ‘integrity’!

    The 7 PC have become ‘gurus’ and are amazing since you last heard them on that pile of cd’s you still have in your basement…but now they are different, I promise, they are the same Chris & Orrin you knew a year ago but NOW… they are ‘transformational leeeders & life coach guru’s….just ask them! So go get um team….at any cost!

    Holy Smokes…what a joke…SSDD… 🙂

    All comments are my opinion. 🙂

  21. May 2, 2012 1:20 pm

    @Rick Beernaert – Please read this and this and tell me again that Orrin and Chris are to be consider top leadership gurus in the world.

  22. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 2, 2012 2:29 pm

    Welcome Rick! Couple questions for you that I’m sure you can quickly answer. The first is didn’t the Darkangelos, Cullens, ect. follow the TEAM process and that lead to bankruptcy? The second is how many people in your downline are making a profit? Since TEAM and such a great system I am sure those two questions will be easy to answer. Thanks Rick I look forward to your response.

  23. switch permalink
    May 3, 2012 5:33 am

    Rick Beernaert says-
    “….As far as your other comments you obviously don’t understand what the team is about or you quit being a member because you didn’t have the guts to do the work required to succeed for as I know, everyone who follows the team system succeeds….”

    You’re so filled with shit…. Didn’t have the guts?…. I believe what you’re trying to say here, mr. beernaert is,…. we don’t have the guts to dress up like mlm whores/conmen/reptiles who loves to pitch BS to innocent people, (and the elderly included).

  24. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 3, 2012 6:12 am

    Rick, you are on here obviously the way I was…trying to argue that Team and Life is the way to go. The fact that you are even looking up this site tells me you yourself are not 100% convinced that this business will really work. If you were a tried and true teamster, you would avoid the negativity. I feel for you..I was wrapped up into this myself until recently when I started pulling back. This is accurate..the material is recycled books and cds put in new shiny packaging. I’ve purchased enough material and listened to enough cds to know when something is a repeat. All I can do is pray that someday you will see the light as I have. Don’t say these people didn’t “work” the system because I’m sure they have…as have I…but the system doesn’t work. and people need to be aware it is just money down the drain if they keep purchasing materials. Put that money to better use…pay off some bills, start a legit business, put your kids through college so they can get a quality education. there are so many better uses for your cash that can help you personally rather then helping Orrin buy new boats and homes and for Chris Brady to go to Italy for a month and they show everything on the big screen at the Major and you dream and wish that you could do that to but you never can because you will never have the business that Orrin and Chris and the rest of the PC have. So you keep dreaming and wishing you had the things they have. Well, guess what…spend the money on YOUR Dreams and not THEIR Dreams and you CAN eventually have those things YOU desire. I know it hurts to hear this….but I feel your pain…it took me a while to relaize if wasn’t my dreams I was chasing, I was merely a pawn in the game they were playing against me to try and help Orrin and HIS business model.

  25. Burned Out With Mona Vie permalink
    May 4, 2012 2:51 am


    I posted cold hard facts mixed in with much sarcasem for the amusment of the folks on this site, however the real numbers, real dates and real facts don’t lie, Brig moved a huge downline over from Amway when this thing started in 2005 after a real nasty ass “tool busisness” law suite with Amway and pretty much all the hot shot upline at the time, it ran from the late ’90’s into the earls 00’s. He rebranded most of the dated “U can 2” crap into R3 Global and has been tweaking it for years. In 2008 MV saw it starting to flash out and and brought in TEAM which is basically doing the same thing, Make your own choices, just keep in mind most of the real money in MLM is in tools and tickets for the very few leaders who have been playing this game since the 80’s.

  26. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 4, 2012 6:28 am

    Where did Rick go? Maybe hes is a person of integrity that is just waiting to be believed.

  27. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 4, 2012 7:57 am

    Rick B. says: “Orrin and Chris aren’t among the top leadership gurus in the country they are listed #6 and #11 respectively in the world, check your facts. This would probably make the others that trained under them amount the top in the country at least.”

    According to you, Rick that would make us “top in the country at least” because many of us on here have “trained under them for years.”

    Rick B. says: “As far as your other comments you obviously don’t understand what the team is about or you quit being a member because you didn’t have the guts to do the work required to succeed for as I know, everyone who follows the team system succeeds.”

    Rick you seem to contradict yourself, how can we (others trained under them) be at least top in the country, “not understand what the team is about” and not have succeeded or is it you think we ‘quit’ and didn’t ‘succeed’… for as you know “everyone who follows the team system succeeds.”

    First Rick what does it mean to “succeed?” This could be the most important question you ask, dig deep. Is your definition of success, lying, deceiving, cheating, stealing, using coercive techniques to personally gain $$ & power over people? Think very carefully before you answer this question it is the hinge that will determine how long and low you go to sustain and create the losses for yourself and others that are guaranteed. It is also the distance you will be willing to suffer and cause suffering, to find in the end it was a lie. I know you don’t fully beleive that is what is happening, but read this site in full.

    Be careful getting caught up in the trappings of Orrin & the PC dishonorable “success” and what you will have to be willing to sell out for? Please don’t take that lightly. We know you are struggling Rick, and also know you don’t want to believe what is said here or that we are trying to help you prevent the train wreck in your life and you will be causing in others; that is inevitably coming. Seek and you will find.

    How long Rick, do you think it takes to “succeed” in a broken mathematically proven, sustainable business that continues to milk the “followers” and then blame them for not succeeding? Is this really helping others, knowing you are guarantee them to fail? What will it take for you 5,10, 15 years? Why Rick, do you suppose they are rebranding and forcing the same information on you and the masses continually and have been for years; making you pay for the same information over, and over, and over? Do you not see this?

    What is your breaking point to face the reality that is right in front of your eyes? The answers are there and especially, in the mathematics. Study the Comp Plan Analysis & P&P, then apply that by opening your eyes to your own group numbers. We already know you aren’t making a profit along with your entire group (if you even have one), it isn’t your fault or you aren’t ‘working hard enough’…We ‘worked more than hard enough’ to the point of full consumption of our lives, for well over a decade; trust me it isn’t about that.

    Read the P&P, they can and will take your ‘customers’ and income anytime for any reason. How would you feel if you worked your life away for a decade to have it all stripped because of greed? You have no control, Rick over any of it, so your’s it is really (Orrins) ‘dreams’ and you are just a pawn to achieve that. You are at the mercy of some very corrupt and greedy individuals; that from experience, are good at deceiving and creating ‘dependency’, at the expense of you, I, and tens of thousands of others. The best advice I can give you is stop, really listen to your internal compass; you already know the truth.

    You doubt because you are starting to wake up. Ask yourself the hard questions, how long will you ‘WANT’ to ‘believe’ it is going to work for you, and ignore the facts that it is proven to be sustainable?

    Take No longer a Lifer, freedomhaha, and all the others seriously, they are trying to help you see what you already know to be true. We will be here for you unconditionally, without judgment when you too hit the point of recognition that we all have and I hope for you, it is way before the amount of damage most of us have suffered. We will be here for you when you are left out like the trash.

  28. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:08 am

    should have said “unsastainable”

  29. May 4, 2012 8:31 am

    @Webelieved Said

    “By the way when Team was in MV, leaders were volume loading for fake recognition all the way up to diamond it seems, unknown to followers! Nice huh?”

    True! Even I was not in TEAMscam/Monascam and I know this. One guy is known to offer eBay auction services to MV diamonds to dispose of their loaded volume. They simply ship it to his house directly (imagine that!) He literally has his garage filled up wall to wall, floor to ceiling with mv boxes. He self-documents this on youtube.

  30. May 4, 2012 8:37 am

    @Webelieved Said

    “How many people were buying into Team-MV, buying tools, spending their money and time, based on that fake recognition?

    Now for LIFE/Team, unknown to you most likely, many leaders were given teams other leaders built and they are using those numbers for income and recognition to get all the sheep to believe in LIFE!”

    Is this not what amounts to evil?!! My assertion that MLM corporations are evil is not baseless and it stands firm on real, documented truth. People make life altering decisions affecting their lives and others’ in their family based on these lies and Teams/MLM deception. I know evil when I see it! And that is evil!

  31. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 4, 2012 8:54 am

    @ exambot 8:37~

    “Is this not what amounts to evil?!! My assertion that MLM corporations are evil is not baseless and it stands firm on real, documented truth. People make life altering decisions affecting their lives and others’ in their family based on these lies and Teams/MLM deception. I know evil when I see it! And that is evil!”

    It is evil.

  32. Chili Cheese permalink
    May 4, 2012 12:35 pm

    This is a little bit off topic, but I was just curious why they had the last major in a different place (the Jerome Schottenstein Center as opposed to the Nationwide Arena)? No doubt they will claim it’s because they grew . . . maybe . . . or maybe there is a more mundane reason. It just piqued my curiosity.

  33. not signed up yet permalink
    May 4, 2012 6:19 pm

    Wow. More repackaging of the same ol stuff. How can all this possibly fit in the trunk? Alon with the flip chart cases of MV that are not moving and all the old outdated stuff? I am suprised TEAM hasn;t made people buy a trailer for all this crap.

  34. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 4, 2012 6:57 pm

    Don’t give them any ideas! I’m sure something will be out soon.

  35. Gordon Freeman permalink
    May 5, 2012 12:05 am

    Immanuel Kant, who is generally considered one of the greatest philosophers ever to have lived, divided human thought into twelve categories, and there is nigh-universal agreement that these categories are inadequate for describing the whole of our mental lives. Ask yourself: is Orrin Woodward so much greater a thinker than Kant that his thirteen categories will be able to do what Kant’s twelve could not?

  36. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 5, 2012 7:59 am

    They aren’t Orrin’s 13 categories I’m sure he just took them from other places and then slapped his name on the cover.

  37. dcstevens permalink
    May 5, 2012 5:50 pm

    It’s been three full days since the Mental Fitness Challenge rollout in Columbus, and the MFC already has 1,254 new customers. That’s over 400 customers a day joining the Mental Fitness Challenge, and it’s only three days old!……HAHAHA…really…new customers…..come on……

    Can believe that I believed this for so long and it hasn’t changed in 3 years…..

  38. ryan permalink
    May 5, 2012 11:58 pm

    Just a question from a former critic to a real professional critic… Do you ever get tired of the same poison again and again? You are so negative all the time and I feel sorry for you. As for top leaders I guess you wouldn’t keep track of that but they recently scored higher on top followed leaders than covey and lucado combined. And since the test of leadership is whether people follow or not… Can I suggest something for you? Try mental fitness challenge put down your rage for ninety days and help prevent stroke.

  39. Michelle permalink
    May 6, 2012 4:40 pm

    Wow. Whoever wrote this is a retard. I am the daughter of an amazing couple who are TEAM leaders and the goal is to help people life the life they have always wanted. It’s as simple as that. Get a grip and get out of your rut. Or don’t, that would be fine too. You’ll just stay unhappy, wasting time talking crap about something you know nothin about 😉

    One love.

  40. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 6, 2012 6:08 pm

    Apparently, you can win free trips by signing your friends up and making them go power player! It’s pretty laughable.

  41. Gaven Sashidharan permalink
    May 7, 2012 8:45 am

    You say it’s propaganda that they spread. But what’s really funny is that you guys are doing exactly the same thing. You are spreading your propaganda by way of this website. Think about it. Go through the blogs and read through all the comments. It’s the same propaganda over and over and over again and surprisingly (not really) from the same 10-15 people. Of course you do have some new people pop up here and there.

    I don’t know how you reached here, nor do I really care, but look at yourself in the mirror, look at your wife and kids eyes (if you have them) and ask yourself if you have actually made a difference in this world. Let’s set aside LIFE and AMTHRAX for a second and seriously question yourself. If your reply is that you aren’t a better person, friend, husband, wife, father, mother, etc. then what are you doing to improve? Even if you don’t like TEAM, LIFE, or the people, what about the material? Can you honestly say that you went to the library or the bookstore and purchased books on self-improvement?

    I’m not here to defend, criticize, or promote anything or anyone. I’m sure one of your “followers” (I did that intentionally as many of the commenters have used that term) will have something to debunk what I’ve said and that will be sad to see because they truly have not looked within themselves and asked the question of whether or not they are a better person.

    So here’s my name and email address (something that none of your followers seem to put on here). Email me with your information and tell me what you were like before and after team and how you truly are a better person now.
    Gaven Sashidharan
    btw, I’m posting this same message to some of your other posts just so I can see how many followers respond to the blog and how many actually email me.

  42. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 7, 2012 12:00 pm

    Michelle- While I respect your opinion it hurts to see the word “retard” used in this blog. I don’t think people that have mental illnesses have anything to do with TEAM/LIEf. As someone that has siblings that are inflicted with mental illness I don’t like seeing it be thrown around. That goes deeper than the content on this blog. People have the choice to sign up with TEAM/LIEf and will suffer the consequences, but someone that is retarted does not have the choice.

  43. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 7, 2012 12:02 pm

    Ryan and Gaven- How many in your downline are making a profit?

  44. Gaven Sashidharan permalink
    May 7, 2012 12:43 pm

    Freedomhaha permalink
    May 7, 2012 12:02 pm

    Ryan and Gaven- How many in your downline are making a profit?
    You clearly do not understand how a business works. I work for one and I have one so I know both ends of the spectrum. Do me a favor. Go to a locally owned restaurant, or to a martial arts studio and ask them how much profit they earned in the first month, 6months, 1st year, 3rd year. When you understand how a business functions, come back to this discussion or email me (my email was provided earlier as I can see your email wasn’t). Provide me with those answers and then we can continue.

    I challenge the rest of the people that commented.

    No I’m not avoiding answering your question. I just want to provide the answer to someone educated enough to understand. Anyone?

  45. May 7, 2012 6:18 pm


    If NO ONE else on here knows how a ‘real’ business works, than why don’t you shed some light on your ‘real’ experience in running a business? And while you’re at it, since your SO forthcoming in disclosing your ‘real’ name, how about you tell us the name and website of your business and I’ll call you tomorrow??? I highly doubt it, cause you’re full of shit. DON’T come on here and tell everyone else that we DON’T know how to run a business…JACK ASS … I was involved with TEAM for almost 15 years and I forgot more than you know. And no, TEAM didn’t teach me not to swear, I learned that from my crossline PC. You know, the one with a brother ‘Gavin’.

  46. a wounded bear permalink
    May 7, 2012 7:25 pm

    @ Michelle…Are Doug and Sherri your parents? If they are, are you building the Life business now? And even if they aren’t your parents, are you building the Life business??

  47. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 7, 2012 7:46 pm

    Gaven- The point isn’t that it takes a long time for a business to make a profit. I completely understand that as the owner of my own business. That is a strawman arguement that I am not making at all. The point of my question was to raise that point that no matter how big your business is the same number of people in your downline lose money. (See “Comp plan analysis”) Plain and simple. Also, when people purchase my product they do not do so with the intent of becoming rich. They know on the surface that I offer a product and they can choose to pay for it. I don’t tell them that by purchasing my product they will get everything they want in life.

  48. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 8, 2012 3:44 am

    We- I am a better friend, student, business man, and church memeber. Count me in your poll.

  49. switch permalink
    May 8, 2012 5:12 am

    Count me in on that poll, webelieved…..and to answer your questions…Yes, yes, yes, yes, and HELL YEAH!!! My kid couldn’t be any happier either….

  50. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:36 am


    Brent and Mike have both freely given their names and emails and you could check with them on your little “challenge.” I DO hope you contact them 🙂

    You are either being paid, trying to prove “loyalty” to Orrin, and getting your ego stroked, (God knows you don’t need your ego enlarged anymore than you are demonstrating here) you can’t seem to help yourself with being arrogant and condescending. You are just a pawn in the world of OW.

    Your main ‘goal’ you ‘need’ to achieve here is to find out who everyone is, isn’t that right Gaven? You have learned… the definition of insanity, right?

    You best go spend a lot more years learning… more advanced “people skills”; i.e. Manipulation techniques taught through Team …because your “challenge” (to the choleric) is NOT going to work here. As smart as you want others to believe you are, You have failed at the most fundamental level here, Gaven. Perhaps you should think about what is missing.

    I ‘choose’ to associate myself with good honest people, and I am very confident that wouldn’t be you, also judging by your defense pretty confident you aren’t the “better” kind of person that someone could even pay me to associate with. I would say good luck…but I already know all the luck in the world isn’t going to get your ‘goal’ here. You just aren’t that ‘good’.

  51. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:37 am

    Webelieved, Switch & rest~

    Ditto! Add me to the poll!

  52. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:57 am

    Add my name to the poll as well. I still kick myself once in a while for all the waste this so called business caused. Hey Gaven.. you need to come up with some new material. I used all those same arguments years ago. They are all true when applied to a real business. Team does not qualify as such.

  53. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 8, 2012 9:37 am

    So, this one person keeps defending team. Look here buddy.

    I have gone Power Player 4 times since being in the business. (Yup, I walked right across that stage too, waving my dinky little flag around). In my 2nd leg, I have 3 Power Players. Now, you’d think I’d be Pro Team right? WRONG.

    I cannot tell you the amount of money I’ve spent on team tool, majors, seminars, ect ect. I attend every meeting—and show about 20 plans a month. I had to miss Friday on the major because I was standing up in a wedding, right after the reception, I drove 9 hours to this damn major. I was yelled at, repeatedly, by my upline. I was setting a bad example.

    Do I make money? Yes? Is it good? No. I have not yet broken even. Why? My team has fallen apart, picked back up again, and then fell apart. Not just in my 2nd leg, in my taproot leg.

    People in my downline taproot always ask me questions why some one who is way above I am, hasn’t gone power player. It’s hard to come up with excuses sometimes…but the fact is, that the system doesn’t work. Being a young, single, female, it’s pretty easy to get people into the buisness, but for others they have to actually ‘relay on the system’. I do care about everyone in my team, but lets get real here—this thing sucks.

    I know many parents who dont tuck their kids in at night due to the fact theyre showing plans–even the ones who are ‘job optional’. Shit, I know a round table member who bar tends on weekends just to make ends meet 🙂

    It’s sad to hear upline–people who have been in the buisness much longer then I have– tell their kids time and time again ‘when mommy and daddy go power player, we’re going to Disney Land’. And now due tot his new scam they’re putting out, the MFC, they tell their kids even more often about this trip.

    I just need a way to tell everyone in team I am out of there.

  54. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 8, 2012 11:36 am


    Glad to hear you will be saving yourself and potentially thousands (in many ways) from this destructive, deceptive scam that is perpetrated on so many families and their children. It is quite heart wrenching to be reminded about; not only the (lost time) with our children, family and true friends, but the many Thousands of families we ‘encouraged’ ignorantly to “chase their dreams” ( whom sacrificed in vain) without fully knowing it was designed for the masses to conform, and for masses to be left with nothing but ‘loses & wasted precious time’.

    We too went PP over and over and over for years, until we quit even counting for PP, turning our numbers in for Top Gun, even system counts you couldn’t trust, due to Orrin teams to others, etc. We stopped “going across stage” for PP after we started recognizing that the ‘numbers’ meant nothing. Fairness? Legit? How would anyone know and all the facts are pointing otherwise. We realized, the numbers simply didn’t matter. It was under the ‘control’ of Orrin who, what, how much, when if ever he thought he would pay someone. It began to smell like fish..if you understand.

    It also has been confirmed on here by a few different commenters’ (and other sources I know)and know by our own experience, that Orrin played with the numbers, gave ‘orders’ to pay some people less. When we found out that Orrin changed the way some high level numbers were counted (after we accomplished that level) the PC didn’t even know O changed it, because it hadn’t til that moment. Why would Orrin do this? I believe because he didn’t want to PAY US at that level, (and never did as far as we know) even though we EARNED IT. But as it goes….what goes around WILL come back around.

    EVERYTHING is Owned & ‘controlled’ by Orrin, all is at the mercy of his will, on a dime. No one OWNS anything. And knowing what we know now, we would have never went across stage EVER or NEVER even got started. Why participate with those that lack integrity, lie, steal, cheat? That is not who we are and That is NOT what we were told or lead to believe nor did we believe we ‘signed up for’. How do you compete with cheaters, liars, and thieves?

    Thanks for sharing and most important I am glad you have found your way back to true freedom!

    The comments are based on my personal years of experience and some opinion.

  55. Mike collins permalink
    May 8, 2012 11:39 am

    There you go hot shot gaven, from the mouth of someone who I’d actually doing it. What have you done with lief other than spend money? How many people on your team? Tell me and I’ll tell you how many of them are failing. I’ll bet you don’t even have 100 yet. LOL

  56. Mike collins permalink
    May 8, 2012 11:40 am

    IS actually doing it

  57. Resist permalink
    May 8, 2012 12:19 pm

    After you walk away, the people in your groups will want to have success…unlike you. They will want guidance from someone and will find someone to plug into. Thus, another case of “that group was stolen” or “this leader was given a group” may come up because you are going to leave people behind.
    I was left by many of my upline. I found someone to get coaching from. On anthrax I would first be considered a “stolen” person or group. However, if the anthrax wanted to demonstrate unworthiness by a Team leader, then I would be classified as “a gift” to a Team leader. I wasn’t stolen, a gift, or otherwise. What the anthraxers and you need to consider is that YOU will leave good people with goals and dreams behind that aren’t part of a “stolen” group or a “given” group. They are individuals that trusted you, you are breaking that trust, and they will find someone else. I’ve seen a group struggle to understand why their leader left them. I know the hunger that group had to have someone lead that group. They got their new leader and all is well.
    I wasn’t a gift, stolen, or otherwise. And when Soon2Bout bails on his/her people, those people shouldn’t be considered as such either.
    Soon2Bout don’t let the anthraxers portray your lack of enthusiasm for Life as anything than what it really is. Go ahead and walk if you want, people quit lots of things; marriages, jobs, friendships, churches, etc..but don’t be weany, slink away, gossip & lie about it later. If you’re going to quit be respectable.
    To the rest of you professional anthraxers, continue to revel in stories of failure and gossip, you seem to really get off on it.

  58. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 8, 2012 1:46 pm

    Speak- You are just being negitive. 😉 Thanks for sharing! I hope your comment will save somones life because that is how serious this is.

  59. No Team For Me permalink
    May 8, 2012 2:08 pm

    the difference is that the owner of a restaurant knew up front how much they would be investing in their business. Most Team/Life victims are led to believe that it’s only one Tuesday a month and a few hours on a Saturday, Then, just the initial investment and $50 a month.

    Which does not include all the hours showing plans, doing follow-ups, phone calls, special meetings, out-of-town functions or the extra costs of spending of dollars on each of the difference tool packs (not to mention mutliple copies so you are ready for you next new leader) new copies of all the churned tools with new logo’s each year, Top 50 packs, tool trunks, etc.

    The restaurant owner went in knowing they would have to put everything they have in the way of time and money. Most Team/Life victims are led to believe it’s no big deal to just squeeze it in here and there between their job, family, church, kids, etc. In reality, most will severly cut back on church, social activities, family time, kids, and many will end up sacrificing their jobs in order to satisfy the mind-control similar methods of the team and upline.

    And in the end, the overwhelming majority over the last few years spent much more on tools & products than they ever made.

    the above are based on my experiences and the experiences of members of my former team

  60. switch permalink
    May 8, 2012 5:25 pm

    Freedom says about Speak-
    “I hope your comment will save somones life because that is how serious this is.”

    They already have, my friend….already have…. (and I’m not talking about just a few people either) 😉

  61. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 8, 2012 5:42 pm

    Switch- I know at least three people personally have been helped by this site. Makes it all worth it.

  62. Speak Your permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:14 pm


    Yea.. Negative Nancy….lol. I am with you, on the very serious note and appreciate everyone who devotes some of their time on here; it is obvious it is ‘making a difference.’

    I hope along with you and you are very welcome. I also hope to eventually see some real justice in a big way. So it is an honor to hang out here for a bit with all of you and try and help others (ironically the same I believed we did when were on the team, was of course before reality exploded in our faces) and honestly I feel it is the least I can do. 🙂

  63. Wake Up Citizens - it's a SCAM permalink
    May 8, 2012 6:55 pm

    I just wasted 10 minutes of my life reading through all this fecal matter. I had a relative contact me concerning this program. I haven’t heard from this relative in about 10 years. But they felt I needed this program (?WTF?).
    I’ve been in corporate America for the past 30 years working for Forbes 100 companies and have never heard of these “leadership gurus”.
    I suppose there will always be people willing to drink the grape juice. Nite all.

  64. Not signed up yet permalink
    May 8, 2012 7:59 pm

    Gaven, how is telling about experience with TEAM that was NOT positive spreading propaganda? Every word I have written on this blog is from my own experience and from things I witnessed at TEAM functions. I dont get my thoughts and opinions from a playbook.
    Dont tell us we dont understand how the business works, when we actually do.

    I know you arent supposed to believe all of us negative quitter losers out here, but would you entertain just for a moment that some people may have had a truly negative experience with team?

  65. G.S. permalink
    May 9, 2012 6:41 am

    You know I almost felt sorry for some of you, and NotYetSignedUp I do sympathize with those that have had bad experiences, but one of your cronies, Scott Johnson (if that’s his real name and probably uses a bogus email address as well and I were going back and forth on email and because I wouldn’t talk on the phone with him he calls me an idiot? I didn’t insult him at all. It’s sad to see a failure like that. Just like some of the other people that comment on here that have called me a jackass. Immature losers who are probably losers in life (and I don’t mean the business) and cowards.

    @Speak, I haven’t seen Brent or Mike’s contact info. Here’s mine No, I’m not paid by anyone. No, I’m not doing this on behalf of anyone, and no, I’m not the brother of whatever CK was talking about.

    First of, my name is spelled Gaven, not Gavin. I have even provided my last name which most of you can’t even provide a first name. I will not talk on the phone because just like you, I would like written proof. I do work for a law firm. I would keep them separate from this discussion just to protect them because unlike some of you from the P&P post, I actually do read the policy and procedures and I can understand them.

    I’m done wasting my time on here. I would like to say that it’s been fun but I can’t because I have yet to have a discussion with a real person and not a coward. The only person to come forth was Scott Johnson but he also turned out to be a coward. You have my email address if you want to have a legitimate conversation, otherwise I wish you all the best.

    ~ The views expressed here were made by Gaven Sashidharan and not by someone hiding behind an anonymous name.

  66. G.S. permalink
    May 9, 2012 6:50 am

    And NotSignedUpYet, if this post makes it on this page, here’s proof that this site doles out propaganda. I posted a reply on one of the other topics and AMTHRAX deleted it. So he’s controlling what is and isn’t said on this site…..He’s such a coward because when someone actually stands up and makes you all look like fools, he doesn’t want that to continue lest he loses his little band of followers.

  67. May 10, 2012 12:42 pm

    @Soon2BOut – Thanks for sharing your story. The fake-it-till-you-make-it attitude is very prevalent in MLM groups. More often than not, the smiling faces at meetings and conferences tell a different story outside of the motivation and rah-rah atmosphere.

    Best wishes getting out of TEAM.

  68. May 10, 2012 12:51 pm

    @Gaven – As I mentioned in another thread, by using a different name (G.S.), your comment was sent to moderation. It has been since approved, along with your Gaven YouShouldKnowMeByNow handle). Stick with one, and the rest of your comments will be approved automatically. I am not deleting your messages unless they contain threats of violence or extreme profanity.

  69. Mike collins permalink
    May 10, 2012 6:53 pm

    gaven……Scott didn’t call you an idiot because you wouldn’t talk on the phone, he called you an idiot for an entirely different reason that is apparent to intelligent people. He called you an idiot because………you are.

  70. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 10, 2012 10:18 pm

    I am a female, to clarify. One person who I met over the years, I showed the plan to, laughed at me, and pulled up this page. Their brother showed them the plan about 4 years ago. His brother wrecked up huge amounts of debt, and had the same results I got…the so-called-positive-results. I’ve read just about everything on this website, almost brought me to tears because I did not want to believe it.

    I am scared to walk away from my team. why? Because they’ve let me into their personal lives and I feel like it would hurt them in a way..that their high and mighty leader (or whatever they call me) is leaving. For those of you who are in team and wondering where I stand…I am at a Turbo 25. Well, 50 would be the next level but there are 30 people in my 2nd leg going to the majors, seminars, ect ect but only 25 in the taproot. 7 of those is what I put in. Mind you, in my 2nd leg, there are 2 power players. Youd think I’d be banking right? Wrong. You have to “invest” (aka spend) more money on tools each month (or week in monnavie) in order to keep yourself at a pay scale or to keep your leadership title, or whatever the hell they call it.

    But my question is–for those sitting on here, defending team. How did YOU find this website? Was it your leader saying ‘dont look on the internet, blah blah blah’ or did you research it for yourself because you wondered if this was a scam..or did someone you show the plan to laugh in your face? But, the real question is, why defend team here? We already left. Mentally, physcially, emotionally, paycheckly (haha) so there is no use to ‘convince us’ or ‘no need to sell the team because it sells itself’ idea. Shouldn’t you be out building the business, or reading a book? Or listening to a cd?

    If you want the results I had…do that. I didn’t play on facebook, or other websites. I built my business, did a damn good job of it, but the math of it all, does not pan out. On team/life/monnvie/whatever you wanna call it., I will be flat out honest. I make close to 30K a year. How much do I invest???….more then what I make. Like I said before, I have not broke even. I work full time. how much more do I need to slave. Trust me, I listened to that finance pack 100000 times and I’ve legit cut out everything. No internet, cable, going out, bought generic brands, no clothes shopping, picked up another job.

    And Gaven, I am too into the law industry. Keep your job love. Everyone needs lawyers. I do wish to keep myself unidentified because well, any more information about me would give away who I was. The Round Table member I mentioned reads this all the time…and its a RT who bartends on the weekends for extra money. Only like 6 people know that.

  71. Burned Out With Mona Vie permalink
    May 11, 2012 3:04 am

    @ Soon2BOut I know how you feel, I thought the same things before I bailed.

    But the sun still comes up in the morning and it amazed me how much I enjoy having my life back again and not blowing all the extra money on useless tools and repetive meetings.

    One thing I noticed is after you get out is all your “best friends in the biz” who “will be there for you no matter what” don’t know you exisit anymore since you are not spending money and promoting them anymore …… who needs friends like that anyway?

    Best of luck with your escape, I have never heard af anyone who got out and had any regrets a month or two later.

  72. switch permalink
    May 11, 2012 8:43 am

    Resist says-
    “After you walk away, the people in your groups will want to have success…unlike you.”

    What a god awful thing to say,…. the verbal abuse team LIEf has to offer makes me dry heave.

    Of course, that’s the first thing that came out of your sorry ass pie hole.

  73. Chris permalink
    May 11, 2012 11:08 am

    Well back again.. As before I am still torn of what is true on what.i say hear or on team. I have gone back and forth because there are somethings on team that just don’t quite make sense. I’ve been in almost a year. I know some of my posts have been repetitive. Since I’ve noticed some of the people on here were at high levels in the business. So I m saying at the business side of it I really haven’t pursued it, because I’m still weighing at the choices is it worth it. So far in my pursuits of getting people in, I haven’t been successful at it mostly because of people saying they don’t have time and the money. So now the mental fitness challenge comes.out and everything changes? Now all the cost are going up? They tell me to tell people to do the mental fitness challenge. Don’t get me wrong I thought it sounded like a good idea. Then I saw the cost of it and what was inside. ? 8 CDS, THE CHALLENGE and 3different packages withdifferent books ( 1book a package). Mind u two of the.books I already had. Now from a business perspective I have no idea how i can honestly say this is a good 200+ dollar investment. Most people haven’t even heard of Orrin. I agree he’s a good leader and teaches some valuable leadership principles, but it seems to me if your not 100 % commited to the business and are willing to convincethatthe materials are.worth that much money I suppose u could do well. For me I’m a Christian and I like the leadership and the community aspect to it. business part for me doesn’t seem like its worth it. Seems like u have to do an awful lot, sell info to other
    people that I think is marked up to high, go to every event ( have to take off from work) Your not supposed to crticicise(WHY I’m on ths site ) . I’m not saying u couldn’t do well in this business, but for me it seems to take a lot of time a.way.from things.that matter just as much. I don’t have my own family, but I can’t imagine if I had kids, leaving them w the babysitter for this business. THERE’S sacrifice, but to what point?

  74. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2012 1:17 pm

    Webelieved~ KABOOM!!!! 🙂

  75. May 11, 2012 4:47 pm

    My opinion (from 10 years of experience with Orrin) is that the ONLY people that can show any sort of “Lifestyle” are the PC’s. If you are looking at this business as a new opportunity or if you’ve been in for a while (like myself) and started to peel back the layers of truth and deep inside (past the phony relationships) sensed that ‘something’ just isn’t right… than I would look at the ‘real’ lifestyle of the ‘leaders’ directly below the PC’s… how long have they been involved? 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? 10 years? 15 years? and I think you’d realize pretty fast that most aren’t living a lifestyle even CLOSE to the hand full of PC’s in this ENTIRE organization. It’s SO easy to tell a new person, look at this PC’s mansion!!! It’s the biggest house in the state!!! (BS) It’s got it’s own home theater or its own bar!!! … look at the lifestyle YOU, YES YOU! can have too! If your Dream is BIG enough. On and on and on…. its the same tired worn out lame hope that causes the ‘leaders’ directly below the PC’s to run up the debt and basically chase their tail. I feel sorry for the ‘leaders’ directly below the PC’s… they’re mentally trapped. Some of them are so far into it without a penny in savings that they can’t stop. They wouldn’t know what to do with themselves. PLUS … every single past friend, co-worker, relative and ex-team member would think they failed… so they keep doing what doesn’t work to save face. They haven’t a clue how to run a real business and they THINK they’re the exception to the World… the exception to the 95% class… but they’re WORST OFF financially than the 95% class. It’s a sad state of affairs. Literally.

  76. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 11, 2012 5:53 pm

    @Chris–The MFC is just another way to contact people.

    It’s a huge investment. in order for you to a part of the free trips and such, your downline and yourself need to be doing the MFC, on top of life subscriptions, on top of team training system, and on top of hitting power players, ect ect. It’s a horrible idea, actually.

    For those who werent at the major, they were telling us to contact people such as
    “Hey, youve heard of P90x right? Yeah yeah, that crazy exercise thing. well, i fell into a group of people who are launching The Mental Fitness Challenge. Basically, it’s like a work out for your brain. Lets get together, say Wensday, around 8, and we can go ahead and take the test together and see what we come up with!”

    So, instead of saying “i fell into a group of guys who are apart of leadership devlopment, blah blahh blahhhh”.

    It’s another way to make money. Not for yourself, but for the PC. They switched arenas this time because the majors at California fell apart, and this new venue is smaller then the old one.

    But to answer someone elses question, yes thats what I made yearly. Life is new, so I don’t have an anual figure for it. But, its still under what I invested in.

    Ohhhh yeah, now we get points for going to Tuesdays. Haha, another desperate attempt to keep the place filled. But, you still have to pay 5 dollars for the meeting, otherwise it’s 10. To be able to get points, you have to buy them, in a sense. It’s 40 dollars. You get 20 pv for it and also “extra bonus material” on the team site. How….how…um. Whats the word…productive, BAWHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    I am so glad I found this website and thank you all for accepting me. You guys are more real then my upline. I say, we get back in, build this shit huge, and laugh and call it a scam infront of everyone at the major, BAWHAHA. Or not, ha. Then fart on Orrin. Yup.

  77. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 11, 2012 7:23 pm

    CK~ Couldn’t agree more and thanks for being here sharing. 🙂

    Soon2BOut~ Thanks to you also for having the guts to stand up and do the right thing, regardless of all the bs those (who aren’t even making it anything are spewing out). Don’t listen to the BS from others…YOU will bless them by leaving, trust, staying holds them in!

    You said; “Ohhhh yeah, now we get points for going to Tuesdays. Haha, another desperate attempt to keep the place filled. But, you still have to pay 5 dollars for the meeting, otherwise it’s 10. To be able to get points, you have to buy them, in a sense. It’s 40 dollars. You get 20 pv for it and also “extra bonus material” on the team site. How….how…um. Whats the word…productive, BAWHAHAHAHAHAHA.”

    Are you serious?….Pathetically Desperate indeed and obviously going down FAST! Can you share some more and also about the California, is it gone now and they have only 1 location? I am a little confused on who pays 5 dollars and who pays 10. You have to spend 40 dollars to get 20 points is this evey week for the ‘open’…sounds like a scheme?….What do you get for the 40 bucks besides the ‘extra stuff’ ??? Let me guess the “extra bonus material” is worn out…. the same ole garbage everyone has already BOUGHT and repurchased and repurchashed and repurchased etc, etc……These guys are simply greedy thieves, no other description is as fitting, imo.

    Similiar to this new scheme with in the sheme..the money sucking MFC, and they have to suscribe to everything else? These guys are snakes and imo have went way beyond crossing the greedy line coming up with this bogus MFC-“contacting” tool,lol suprise!. Just when I think they cannot go any lower…but they have no problem ripping people off.. those same people going broke supporting the PC lifestyle… These guys are going to take themselves down! I have heard what books you ‘get’ with the MFC and as far as I could tell there is a total of a whoppin 12 CD’s (anyone can verify or know which ones?) but the worst is guess what books this hyped up garbage comes with;

    Wait….13 Resolutions which has no doubt already been crammed down the throats of thousands,the Rascal book too, which is an old book same… crammed down thousands throats..chris…and then yes…last but not least….wait for it….the LLR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you freaking believe it??? wonder how tim feels being left out

    The Same LLR they have raped people’s finances and forced down on BOM then forced “promotion”…them to buy cases gaming ‘the number 1 best seller status, tool trunks, for how many years now???? Not only have they became discustingly desperate….they flat out can not have a conscience if they would even have the audacity to expect people to subscribe to this MFC. They should be ASHAMED of themselves…to say this a permanent change…with these same old books they have literally resold hundreds of times and ways to support their “lifestyle”…Seriously how do they live with themselves?! There are no words to fully describe how discusting these criminals are!

    How is reselling the same sh*t to the same people over and over and over and over and over thousands of times asking the followers to support your’s and the other PC families to take away from theirs…orrin? You will eventually experience in your life… all you have taken from others… How do YOU sleep at night?

  78. Chris permalink
    May 12, 2012 1:25 am

    I think Orrin seriously thinks he’s doing good. Unfortunately he has been in this business for a while and I believe he has been so caught up in his dream and has come obsessed w reaching a million people . He says in 5 yrs, which is hard to predict since he’s far off that #. I like Orrins ideas, howevever the way he obssessis with some things has me concerned. On one hand he stresses about helping people, on the other hand he is obssesed w his dream. Again I stress HIS dream. He is now obssesed w life island. Maybe my dream isn’t life ISLAND. Seems to me His ego has gotten in the way of his common sense. It seems to me if the product was really great, it would sell itself. I mean why would u need all these motivational cds if u d be excited about the product itself. Now I do like the books, but they over promote them toO much. I mean I’ve read some.of.these books years ago. The biggest concern for me is that they claim..they are.Christians, yet claim these are the.greatest books ever! As a christian for me I should be claiming the.Bible is the greatest book ever! I have this war going on all the.time. However, the books if applied have some good info in them and principles, I just think they are.not as.great as the leaders of team make them out to be. This site is right about Orrin andpc making all the shots and owning your business. Again I do like the idea of the business as a whole and the idea of the mfc. It’s a good idea, but as a business I don’t think it will catch on and the mfc is way overpriced. For me in team highly disappointed at last major that they throught mfc as the new business model and gave us with no explanation changed the plan and then expected us just to willingly show this to people, before we knew what the package included. To me it was not prepared well at all,They ran out of products there also. They said we should buy the mfc, well duh? I saw the price and I about flipped. This is what really got me.thinking. I almost felt like I had to buy it, because now its the new business model. I thought team supposed to be cheaper? I believe the real reason was Orrins obsession with dream island o mean life Island to get more money for it. Itd the only thing.that makes sense. The Next sign i had that made me think something is not right was the mfc video, it had all the top pc talk about the mfc and how it changed their lives? really? Didn’t this just come out? Isn’t this false advertising?I took the prechallenge, some of the ?s are team related and an outsider wouldn’t even know how to rate.theirselves. I think Orrin and pc in my opinion have almost become so obssesed with the team culture,.they have become unrelatable to the real world and life island has taken it to level. This is just my opinion. People should really question things if they don’t feel something is right and not just do things so willingly. On team questioning the leaders, it seemed that it always came to, trust Orrin. Last major things changed drastically some say for the good because people will change and improve their lives faster because of.mfc or maybe because u can get vacation. They.did forget to mention the price for mfc? This major really threw my upline also, noone seems to know what to do next? so much confusion going on? The mfc for me was not introduced in a.professional manner, way rushed and not enough warning. When u make changes woulnt it make sense to give details more ahead of time? Team I’m finding out
    gives u very minor explaination of details and why changes occur . So I’m finding out little by little as it seems this business is not yours, its Orrins and what pc decide, were just his pawns for his dreams, His plans. He wants u to be a part of it. I believe Orrin wants what is best for people, I really believe he thinks this. The scary thing to me is that he promotes life and the team like its the gospel and then he ends his speach its all about him ( referring to God). How can u say Its all about him, when really all he (Orrin)was talking about was his own plans.The last major was an eye opener for me and see how egotism has gotten a hold of the leaders. I understand that people have dreams and goals, but it seems more and more they are using their business of an opportunity for their own dreams and taking advantage of people by using techniques for u to buy the next best thing. Their reply would be, well u improved, didn’t u? WELL YES. That doesn’t make the business right though. When I was introduced I was just enough interested to go to the seminar where they got my emotions. Now my brain caught up and.a lot of ?s still need answered. I don’t know of the top leaders intentions, but I definately have some concerns about how things are handled and the rising costs, when they said at last major costs would go down.? Now adding mfs, they will try to convince buy and tuesdays will be.$10. 40a month if u get your special pass. Do they really think people will like this? Seems most of people i talk to on team do? why? because u get points. ha ha. so let’s raise the price and.u get payed. Is it just me or are people not thinking here ? Look for yourself.
    Team has its approach, but has mostly thesame materials. The plan has changed also. The catch is the 3 for free program and the free vacations. Why all.these changes all at once? overkill! All that.stuff about Robert K.s cashflow quadrant gone? the want circle gone? What business am I in? Team ? What part did I havin these changes. I THOUGHT IT WAS MY BUSINESS? Im just to go along with it without ?. I’m not sure if I want to go on this ride?

  79. Chris permalink
    May 12, 2012 2:05 am

    next major in July will be held in two places. Team is e pected to have major growth because of mfs. I don’t believe mfs will have the effect that.leaders on team think. People don’t usually like change, especially with this much in a short amount of time. Fact is team is growing. My theory of why is because people are.looking for hope and purpose and of course money. For me putting all my effort and time in the team is too much to ask for,when I could be doing other things worthwhile. TEAM did help me gain perspective though.

  80. Enough! permalink
    May 12, 2012 4:08 am

    Soon2Bout – You will totally bless your team by getting out! I can’t tell you how thankful I am that my upline quit, because if they hadn’t we would not have found out all the crazy stuff going on with Team and we would probably still be in. It was the biggest blessing in our lives that they got out! You may help save someone else in your team from all the destruction by doing the same.

  81. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 6:23 am


    Excellent Post….You are getting it! Your gut is right on!


    I also agree with Enough & Webelieved…You could save many others of what you know to be true, just by you leaving! Just keep remembering that you will be helping them not hurting them and when you are completely honest with them why you left they will understand and most will thank you and even agree because they already are feeling what you are!!!!…. They are just afraid to say it!

    .I relate to the ‘guilt’ but that is from the indoctrination and from the PC intentionally pounding that and how they want you to feel….but that is the best way you can help your team…don’t listen to their garbage and guilt know the truth!

    It will wake others up to there own thinking and questioning especially if you have influence and are a leader!

  82. Mike Collins permalink
    May 12, 2012 6:34 am

    Chris: you hit the nail squarely on the head when you said…….“I think Orrin and pc in my opinion have almost become so obsessed” and “they have become unrelatable (unable to relate) to the real world”

    You will find this is pretty much standard operating procedure in most things MLM. Because when you are part of a ridiculous business model such as LIEF and you allow yourself to become indoctrinated with their bs you will find that the FACTS don’t matter.

    FACTS are what orrin and company want you to ignore. The FACTS dictate that the vast majority of people that buy into this crap WILL LOSE MONEY.

    orrin and chris……you guys are charlatans. Your business model is a violation the very laws, God’s laws, that you claim you stand for. You are walking contradictions enriching yourselves on the backs of others……….enjoy the ride while you can, your judgment awaits you…………………..

  83. Mike Collins permalink
    May 12, 2012 6:36 am

    BTW…anyone seen gaven with a little “g”? He must be gettin caught up on his pencil sharpening duties…

  84. a wounded bear permalink
    May 12, 2012 8:00 am

    @ Mesha…Heck no I’m not building lief. We quit while it was still team/mona vie.
    @ Soon2beout…like someone said many posts ago…when you leave your true friends will stay with you & all others will drop away. Thats been our experience. And since then we have friendships with people from crosslines…that was a big no no. Lol….there is LIFE outside of team. Loved ur testimony about your experience in team/lief, I could related as im sure many others did too.

  85. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 9:04 am


    Amen! I think someone should contact perhaps the real Gaven Sashidharan… little (g)..haha through the contact information given from the link or his work rather than the ‘yahoo’……just a gut feeling. 🙂

  86. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 9:07 am


    Thank you so much, it is appreciated! I do the same. 🙂

  87. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 11:01 am


    Chris you said: “I think Orrin seriously thinks he’s doing good.”

    Chris orrin knows for a fact, he ISN’T doing ‘good’ financially for the masses (10’s if not 100’s that have churned through the Team) He knows the numbers & losses of the masses, and he also knows for a fact, of the many other damages he has created. Spiritually, Emotionally, Relationally, Mentally, Financially…because he reads this site DAILY!!!!

    He just ‘chooses’ to stay in DENIAL…Why because he doesn’t EVER want to go back to being a ‘broke engineer and have to admit the real truth! So he will do What-ever-it-takes…lie, steal, cheat, and LIE to himself and thousands upon thousands of others… he KNOWS have about a ZERO chance to have that lifestyle he throws in others face, because he designed it that way!.

    What he has done is justify and convince himself because of taken care of the 7 good ole boys and because of that he is doing good? He has deluded himself and feeds others with false hope!! If he doesn’t ‘convince himself’ or least convinces others he has convinced himself’ and he is supposedly ‘helping them’ it would collapse!!!

    He is intentionally screwing people and he knows it…. Chris….he KNOWS for a fact, if he doesn’t believe it NO one else will believe it either!!!! He will even admit this….Your team will believe in you when you believe in you!

  88. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 11:02 am

    The “un-relatable obsession” (orrin would call passion and enthusiasm)..I would call it acting like a freak …. haha…it fits the characteristic of a “charismatic” cult leader and does make him un-relatable and look like a freak, in my opinion. Ever watch other cult leaders? He thinks people look at him as some TOP leadership ‘guru’ (blogger he leaves that part of the award out..haha) He wants to mislead. The way he displays or uses his on stage ‘acting’…is done very intentional to get a certain response..Trust me these guys have study what works to get the response and the ‘message’ they want you to receive subconsciously and believe!

    This “obsession” is also common characteristic and a given from what I have seen, it fits the profile of every greedy, self-serving, power hungry, ego maniac, criminal, cult leader and those who believe they are a ‘guru’ or some deity to others.

    Read up on cults, what makes the cult leader ‘successful’ in controlling others to the point of some serious abuse and even death they will get others to endure. Yet even though they are abused the cult followers still praise the ‘guru’ and continue to ‘follow’.
    Watch American Greed, and look up Bernie Madoff story (even after he was sent to prison for the rest of his LIFE! He still ‘believes’ he helped the rich get richer! (paraphrased, you can find the interview), Numerous victims that he completely wiped out their entire life savings along with causing all kinds of emotional, financial, mental, relationally, and chances are spiritually too, including his own FAMILY… (Sound familiar?) He continues to hang on to his delusional belief he helped others!. Read up on others like the psycho’s,(IMO), Jim Jones, Harold Camping, Charles Mason, and too many others to mention, who also ‘believed’ and were ‘obsessed’ they were ‘helping or saving people!’

    They all were off the charts “obsessed” with their own self-serving egos, power and control they had over every area of their ‘followers’ lives and many other common characteristics! They also believed they were the authority and some thought they had the only direct communication to God or thought they were a god!

  89. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 12, 2012 2:13 pm

    Lol, there is a seminar today, and I got called by my upline yelling at me because I am not going. I said I can’t because I am tutoring a girl in AP classes (advance placement) for high school (I tutor kids on weekends because it’s fun and I do, really want to help people) and they said I could of re-scheduled. Truth me told, i could of, except Tuesdays I am at the opens, there was a Ladies Leadership last night, and alllllll the plans I helped showed this week. (both legs had me working up a storm, I personally showed 23 plans with my team) I don’t see them doing that. So, my life was devoted to team.

    I’m sure Orrin and many leaders know who I am, but thats why I don’t give away too much of my personal information. And if they know who I am, then they can feel free and post on here and bitch that I “never followed the system and thats why it didnt work for me”. But they cant, because I followed that system like no ones business. Haha.

    To clarify about the new Tuesday Open. So, you go onto your team website, sign up for the $40 membership. With that, you get 20 PV points (a month, not per tuesday). Then, you still have to pay 5 dollars to get in. The extra bonus material is kind of like post-Tuesday meetings with the leader showing the plan. Also, you can download the talk and use that to show your plan. If you do not sign up, it’s 10 dollars per meeting and no PV.

    Someone said the cash flow quadrant not being in the plan. Amway and other companies are using that along with the dream/want circle. They don’t want people to think it’s “one of those things”. Funny thing is, I have a buddy of mine who is in Amway who reads the same books (5 love languages, Personality Plus, ect ect) I have no idea what Amway is, so I cannot say much about it.

    They kept saying being in Team is going to be cheeper, such as to sign up…but it’s not. I am not sure how the guys at MonnaVie are liking this. Normally, before life, you had to be on both team and monnavie autoship. Now your spot in Monnavie will go into the line up where you land in team/life for a year before you actually sign up for it. I actually like a few of the Monnavie products, so I will keep continuing to buy items (I lovvvveee the energy drinks and the RVL actually helped me lose 35 pounds, now I am a hot beeotch because of it, ha)

    You guys are lovely, btw, are any of you on facebook? Let me know where I can find you and we can be friends on facebook and then we can talk a bit more on how Teams affected me…that way I can give you more of my numbers and what they look like ect ect.

  90. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 12, 2012 5:50 pm


    orrin learned it all from Amway where he started! Haha.

    Thanks answering questions. These guys are desperate and unreal. Very interesting on the MV informoration a year huh?….Thanks a bunch and hope you keep sharing. 🙂

  91. Chris permalink
    May 13, 2012 12:04 am

    Went to seminar today. Mostly the same old thing. I believe Orrin really believes he’s going to a million in 5 yrs. How can the leaders believe this? We will see what.happens. Orrin.says time will prove him right.I’m not God, but I don’t see.that happening. Ive been in for almost a year. The business format has changed over and over, now the plan. The information almost all the same.
    I’ve never even bought the top 50! and I’m almost to the point where I can’t hear my own voice and only hear the cds over and over in my brain. I’m a walking talking cd. yeah! I feel so refreshed just going outside and enjoying my tIME in silence without the cds. Don’t get me wrong the cds have some good stuff, but man get some new material! Even Orrins jokes are the same. To be honestly frank, I dont understand how people who have been in for years don’t get.tired of the same old thing. The truth will set u free Orrin. You say God is your master, is life business the truth or the Bible? for Gods glory or for yours? Life business is for self improvement notice “self”. I don’t think Jesus spoke highly of self since he is known for being selfless. As a Christian, God and the bible I believe is truth. The hyped up greatness of life business is not all that and is.over the top overrated in my opinion. Don’t make the life business more than it really is. As.a.believer Freedom is found in Christ and.true hope and a changed heart and life. This world will fade away and life with it. For.I.found this to be my boast! Christ, not the life business!

  92. Chris permalink
    May 13, 2012 12:33 am

    To be honest ready to quit this soon. System asap. Its too much money for the same ol thing. The leadership aspect I liked and did find.some good things on team and agreed with the principles they shared. Its too bad the model is skewed and the info isnt anything that is earth shattering. I wish all my team well. Most of the info.can be.found elsewhere for a.much lower cost. As for community, Ill stick with the church. Money well I’ve lost more than I gained from team. THANKS FOR TEAM THOUGH FOR HELPing me GAIN PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT’S IMPORTANT! True Freedom!

  93. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2012 6:08 am

    Chris~ Amen..buddy! orrin has been saying he is “going to a million”, in 5 yrs, for YEARS now, he missed that mark years ago, and the results? Continuous backwards growth, Changed names and the same rebranded, resold old stuff, build & replace with the same ole churned through mlm’ers, too MANY to count destroyed relationships, and … millions of dollars of losses (the pc gained) from years of the followers…by recycling the same ole’ information!

    “You can’t solve your problems at the same level of thinking you created them at”, orrin! The definition of Insanity fits you perfecty!

    How does (o) continue to dellude himself? All the ‘changes’ they supposedly made/make (name changes to hide the truth, mlm hopping to try and save themselves,stealing cheating, lying and deceiving to ‘hang on by a thread’)….only finds them remaining stagnant (its why they have to continue to make up some hyped up ‘MFC’ program of the week, and call it ‘new’) but it remains the same.

    How many ways and times will they pillage the followers finances,control them.. re-sell the same old books,cd’s and LLR’s?! As long as they are allowed to deceive and can get away with it!

    They haven’t nor do I believe they ever will….Change their Core Problem..IMO, They lack integrity and honor and are too Greeeeedy ( rebranding/reselling…Comp Plan & Ron Day Rule) controlling (P&P) and Prideful to make the real neccessary changes.

    Their history will continue to repeat itself….until an act of God and or a more powerful force (FTC, IRS,DOJ, etc.) comes in and forces that change upon them.

  94. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 13, 2012 6:12 am

    Happy Mothers Day! 🙂 Have a great one to all the free thinking MOM’s…Enjoy your children, spouses, and your Mothers..(your gifts) today and everyday…now that you are totally FREE!

  95. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:17 am

    Hello all, just checking in as I’ve been busy spending time with my Family. 🙂 I love it..more time with my Family now that i’m out of the LIEF business. Soonzbout: Contact me at and we can exchange information to be Facebook freinds. Would love to hear more of your story on a more personal level. I just recently left the business as I was getting sick of the same material and getting no where fast in this stupid so called business. I really enjoyed reading your comments.

    Everyone else, it is a pleasure reading your comments and I’m becoming more satisfied with my decision. Funny thing is, I’ve heard from NO ONE since I checked out of the business. NONE of the tap root who supposedly wanted to be my best friend when I was “building” the business with them. FAKE FRIENDS. They use to talk about Facebook being about FAKEbook….well the people in this business are a Fake as they can get. Seems like all of you will make much better friends…and if you would like to know me on a more personal level, also feel free to use that email address above. 🙂

  96. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 7:12 am

    Soonzbout: Do you remember when Chris & Danae Mattis hit PC? What happened to them? Do you know? I would think they should be listed as part of TEAM PC but they aren’t…Did their Team fall apart?

  97. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 7:20 am

    webelieved: I truly understand and I will share what I am able on here. I was never a big leader on team. Luckily all my friends and family were not as naive as I was. I got a few people to “sign up” but many quickly saw through the scam and left. They told me I wasn’t doing enough cd listening and reading. Hell, I would listen to 150-180 cds a month. My kids even got pumped up at first. But the excitement quickly faded away once they realized I was never home to put them to bed at night and also had to miss important school events. I feel I am a much better Dad now that I’m gone from Team. I feel bad for all the kids who are being raised by baby sitters because their parents are out building this business. OMG, Wake up already people.

  98. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 7:36 am

    webelieved: I have had a lot of conflicting feelings. Like I thought I might hold on to the Life Subscription package. Which was really dumb because if we want to read a good Christian book, I can check them out at our Church Library and read them for Free. I just can’t believe my friend who got me in and has been in the business for years and hasn’t made anything at this business would continue to live the LIEF. All I can do is pray for him and hope he will one day see through the Facade of BS.

  99. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 7:40 am

    Ya, they say it is the “world” that is doing the brainwashing and the cds and books are suppose to be scrubbing our brains of what the world teaches us. Really, though, THEY are the ones doing the brainwashing.

  100. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 8:07 am

    OMG…I would be so exhausted after the major that I would have to miss work at my regular job just to catch up. My upline would say, come on, lets get fired up…and I was too tired to move. And yet, here I was ready to go show plans because they pumped me up so higher. It was like being addicted to a drug.

  101. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 14, 2012 8:17 am

    I would rather not say…but I knew in my heart that what you guys were saying was the truth. I just didn’t want to hear the truth. I first started reading out of curiousity, then I was just plain angry that you guys would try to squash someone elses dream..LOL….Can you believe that? I was angry with all of you to squash someone elses dream (Turns out, it is only Orrin and the PCs Dream). Eventually my rose colored glasses started to see things more clearly and I realized I would never had what they had. Then I questioned if I even wanted what they had. Then, through a series of events, I realized I have to look at what MY dreams were and what motivated me to do better in MY life. And it certainly wasn’t anything the Team could provide because my bank account was drowning in red ink. I was overdrawn in my bank account on a weekly basis for the last 8 months of 2011. I still owe money to the bank for the closed “Business” account. I kept blaming everything on our “personal” spending habits and we needed to stop spending so much. My Upline said I need to keep builidng the business and buying tools. The creditors could wait. In January is when I decided to start “cutting back” on the business. Instead of focusing on the business, I used more responsibility toward my “personal finances”. Do you realize since February, I haven’t been Overdrawm even once..Not even Once. From overdraft notices almost daily, to No Notices at all. And my phone is happier to because my creditors aren’t blowing up my phone because I can actually pay them now. How sad that my thinking was sooooooooooo stupid. Again..I’m so sorry for arguing with you guys….but I hope I can make it right by posting what I know now so perhaps someone can read this and decide to not join the Team.

  102. May 14, 2012 9:15 am

    @No Longer A Lifer – consider sending me your answers to the Ex-TEAM Q&A. Love to add your story to the list of former TEAM members.

  103. May 14, 2012 9:19 am


    Let me get this straight, the Tuesday opens used to cost $5 to get in. Now you can pay $40/month and then still get in for $5 ?!?! So essentially, you now pay $15 to get into the open meetings and all you get for the extra $10 a week is 5 PV/wk (20PV/month) and some bonus material you’ve already paid for through system? I guess it’s like Orrin always said…”The bigger the lie, the easier it is to sell.”

    I’m not a rocket scientist by any means, but how can people actually buy into this without questioning it? Team/LIFE is a scam…run!!!!

  104. May 14, 2012 10:01 am

    I think it’s time we revisited MLM Punisher’s Cost of Living Intentionally for Excellence post in light of all the “new” products that TEAM/LIFE/MFC is offering today. Anyone care to tabulate the costs to see how much a hardcore, all-in TEAM/LIFE/MFC member will have to pay each month?

  105. Chris permalink
    May 14, 2012 10:15 am

    Yea its all about getting points, so u can say, hey look I got payed. The fact is they are raising the prices. The opens and.mfc (SAME MATERIALS) is when put up for me. I realized your paying more money in then ever, and now promoting mfc and opens the costs are overwhelming. The points and free trips are the motivational objective now. They make it sound easy on paper. The point that I’making is this. From my experience its not, simple because a.small.percentage of new.prospects are this material and are willing to invest time and money in this. Since Ive been in almost.a year. I realized this and I’m not even a leader. Team will rule your life, if your willing to do that ok, but that to me isn’t freedom.

  106. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2012 12:02 pm

    Good idea Amthrax, but I will leave that for the ‘naturally’ more detailed person, that enjoys I also hope No Longer A Lifer answers the questions on EX-team Q&A. I believe that is an excellent post and will help many more than we even know.

    Great Comments All! 🙂

  107. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2012 12:26 pm

    No Longer A Lifer~ To your comments @ 8:17. I can’t express how much I appreciate your honesty. It takes guts and humility to share what you have. Thank You. Also, don’t beat yourself up, we all “wanted to believe their lies.” Also I agree what webelieved said; and I believe it includes everyone on here, we all have tremendous compassion for those who go through the very painful process of ‘waking up’ from the ignorance and lies we were lead to believe and finding the truth on our own. We have had the same mixed emotions and the pain and suffering that it causes. But as you start to filter the lies from truths it gets better and you get better!

    For me personally it was not only shocking (when you realize the PC friendships and many others were FAKE) and can’t tell you how excruciating it was when I realized how we must have hurt others with the lies I promoted and believed. So I am very forgiving of the ‘arguments’ of others, when someone like you shows with so much humility and honesty. I do feel your pain. The bright side is you won’t fall for someone else ‘a guru’ has all the ‘wisdom’ when in reality YOU have that within already! That is the biggest fallacy they ‘sell’ themselves as ‘gurus’ with all the wisdom and knowledge! In reality they just exploit ‘others’ knowledge. You don’t need to ‘pay’ someone else ever for ‘wisdom’ and remember you are not who had to ‘fake’ yourself to be while in the cult environment! You are truly FREE to believe and THINK your own thoughts and through your own seeking you will find the wisdom you already own within, is everything you need right now.

    I also agree with Webelieved in all her points..there was ‘some good’ things, like (true relationships) we now have with those we spent years building with and lost some too that obviously weren’t ‘true friends.’ I believe some of the information, in some of the books(for me honestly a handful) the rest was a waste of the ones that were ‘written’ for MLM’ers specifically to ‘buy in’ to the whole industry because they wanted to continue to ‘sell’ their books to!…Many more books, than you think were written by authors who made their living off the ‘captive mind- controlled audiences’..that made millions off those ‘captive audiences’ beginning in Amway and continues…written specifically for the dishonorable majority of the MLM ‘industry’.. and I can get and could have gotten all the books elsewhere for free.

    I was reading self-improvement and the learning the stories and truths in the Bible…Waaaayyy before the Team showed up to; wreak havoc in our lives! They get no credit for ‘improving’ my life…that would be to the glory of the divine and I did the work! They have stolen and imply it is them who are the ‘guru’s’ with all the wisdom and true principles but again they only exploit them, for their personal gain.

    No Longer a Lifer the good news is….You are now FREE to truly LIVE your priorities! :)… and not just pay lip service to everyone else; lying to yourself and others that is what you are doing. Everyone else can clearly see none of us LIVED our priorities…and certainly not in the order of importance. Just ask your Neighbors, FAMILY and CHILDREN!

    I sincerely hope you keep sharing for YOUR sake (it is healing) and for the sake of helping others understand they are not alone. You might say something that wakes up someone else’s’ (wisdom within). You are making a difference in your own healing and helping others by sharing.Thanks again.

    The team always hypes everything they do up…such as life shattering ..Such as calling themselves genius, hero’s, guru’s, fighting for freedom etc.. (as if they are fighting in real battle for our country). I agree there are many reasons and ways to stand up and DO what is RIGHT, but from my experience that is polar opposite of what I have seen them do and isn’t even close to being in a life or death battle! They aren’t even remotely close to the size of their egos and the way they make themselves out to be.

    And quite frankly when I used to hear… a million times over; they were “fighting for freedom” it used to turn my stomach…and I felt it was a slap in the face and a dishonor to the real men and women who have given their lives in battle! Who continue to on a daily bases, to fight & risk their lives in real danger and battle for our country! Where is there proof they are so heroic?!

    They spread that propaganda to get the unsuspecting to think the PC are bigger than life, smarter than everyone else and to not question and conform, “create dependency” etc..

    Without a doubt they are fully aware of the ‘culture’ of indoctrination they have created..Through demanded edification and modeling that creates idol worshipping, which causes people lose their true selves..they stop listening to the still small voice (where true wisdom comes from) and wait and listen to only what their ‘upline’, orrin & the PC to give them all their answers to their lives and how to live it. Everyone gives their power away when involved in that culture rather than empowering themselves! It is all because orrin & the pc they live by their ego driven minds; that they created for themselves.

    All my comments are based on what I have witnessed and experienced; years around orrin the pc and Team.

  108. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2012 12:38 pm


    It is no different then they have always done! LIE. I say keep your $1000 dollars a month or more for ‘all in’ers’ and stash that for 6 months you and your family can have the ‘vacation’ of a Lifetime! By the time you ‘buy in’ to get their misleading… “FREE” trips, sorry folks NOTHING IS FREE, except the most important things they can’t offer you!…

    By the time you have SPENT all your money ‘trying’ to earn their free bogus trips…You could have gone with the people you love for 2 vacations a year! I saw are offering ‘cruises’ and ‘resort’ stays…Do you know how many “free cruises” and the ‘deals’ you can get on ‘resort stays?’…They are offered by telemarketing companies by the minute!!!

    Omg….they give those trips away because they make their MONEY off other things!!!!

  109. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2012 12:41 pm

    Not only do you have to go broke.. on their buying ‘points’… autoship to get their bogus…”free” trip, you will have the business consume you, mislead others and give up your own independence up..your.God given, free will and thinking!!!!

  110. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 14, 2012 1:15 pm

    Oh yes…Another waaayyy to put $$$ in the PC pockets…yes, yes, yes..same ole greedy game!

  111. May 14, 2012 1:43 pm

    @webelieved and all – you can view details of the incentive trips here. A number of TEAM/LIFE/MFC members have been posting about them on their blogs.

  112. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 14, 2012 5:44 pm

    Really impressed that No Longer A Lifer came back to share their story. I went through the same reactions that they did while reading this site gaining the truth. I have said that this is a true community that welcomes people back with open arms. We have been there and act as a real group of people that care about each other.

  113. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:00 am

    I should challenge my friend that got me on Team to a competition. He can try to earn the reward for a dream trip and I will work hard at my job and safe the money for the same dream trip. I bet I will win. 🙂
    By the way…the 3 books in the Mental Fitness Challege that they want people to purchase AGAIN are Resolved by Orrin, Rascals by Chris, and Lauching a Leadership Revolution by Orrin and Chris. I already own all 3 books…LMAO. Who in their right mind would repurchase the books and cds for $220 to become part of thie Mental Fitness Challenge. REALLY?? WOW.

  114. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:08 am

    LMFAO…HARD TO BELIEVE ONCE I WAS THIS SHALLOW. Read this which I just got off the Mental Fitness Challenge Site. How in the World did this guy have such a changed life in the Mental fitness challenge when it hasn’t even been out a Month. LMAO. OMG..REALLY???? Wow…what an eye opener…Sorry..this is just DUMB.

    “I was first exposed to the Mental Fitness Challenge materials right before my wife left me and started the divorce process. Before that exposure to the MFC I was incredibly selfish, angry and heartless towards those I cared about the most, and just plain mean all the time. In leaving me, my wife sparked a new hunger to change and humility in my heart, and thank God for the Mental Fitness Challenge and other LIFE material!! Though I was at the lowest point in my life, and actually thinking of ending it all and just giving up, God used the MFC to not only bring me out of a life long depression, but to also begin molding my heart into the man He created me to be. Each day has lead to new information and revelation into not only who God is, but who I am and could be as well. Although the divorce is now finalized, I have hope and pray that one day my marriage will be restored through God and the life changing materials in the Mental Fitness Challenge. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, to all of the people that helped make this challenge a reality. It has totally shifted my life in ways I cannot even describe. -Jeremy Steffel”

    [Editor’s note: added blockquote]

  115. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:10 am

    Here is the Detials on the Trips I got off the Life website.

    Incentive Trips: Where Are You Going?

    At the Spring Leadership Convention in Columbus, Ohio, LIFE was thrilled to introduce one of its most prodigious new programs: Incentive Trips! Rewards don’t get much bigger or more sensational than this! Read on to learn more about the fabulous trip options available and the criteria necessary for LIFE Members to qualify for one of these splendid world-class vacations.

    Incentive #1: 6,000 for 6 Trip


    1. Trip Tracker – 200 Personal/Customer PV each and every month. For existing LIFE Members, Trip Tracker can start in April or May. For new Members, Trip Tracking begins with the first month in business. If one month is missed, including even the first month for the new member, then the member is no longer eligible for this trip.

    2. PV – 6,000 Total PV for 6 consecutive months with a minimum of 4,000 PV in Team #1 and an additional 2,000 PV, including personal and customer volume, outside of Team #1.

    3. For example, a new member that was enrolled in May would start trip tracking in the month of May and continue to do 200 PV each month through the six month consecutive PV requirement.

    4. If in the months of January – March 2012 a member has not met the PV requirements, they are eligible to qualify for the 6,000 for 6 trip.

    Trip Options

    1. Disney World, Orlando, Florida – 4-day/3-night stay at Disney’s Beach Club Deluxe Resort. Disney’s Beach Club Resort is a New England-style Disney Deluxe Resort, shaded by broad oak trees and lapped by the gentle waters of the 25-acre Crescent Lake. This trip includes a round-trip airfare credit, Disney Park Hopper Passes, Disney dining meal plan, transportation to and from the airport, and transportation to all Disney properties and theme parks.

    2. Arenal, Costa Rica – 6-day/5-night stay at the Arenal Springs Resort & Spa. Perched one thousand feet above the Arenal Valley, Arenal Springs allows for incomparable views of the Arenal volcano, the lush valley, and the surrounding towns that sparkle at night. This trip includes an airfare credit, daily breakfast, canopy tour, volcano hike, and safari boat floating.

    3. Oasis of the Seas, Bahamas Cruise – 8-day/7-night balcony cabin cruise. Experience the ship that revolutionized cruising; its revolutionary and breath-taking design includes seven distinct neighborhoods tailored to create the ultimate experience of enjoyment for all passengers.

    Incentive #2: Leader 6 Trip


    1. Trip Tracker – 200 Personal/Customer PV each and every month. For existing LIFE Members, Trip Tracker can start in April or May. For new Members, Trip Tracking begins with the first month in business.

    2. PV – 15,000 PV for 6 consecutive months with a minimum of 9,000 PV in Team #1 and an additional 6,000 PV, including personal and customer volume, outside of Team #1.

    3. If in the months of January – March 2012 a member has not met the PV requirements, they are eligible to qualify for the Leader 6 trip.

    Trip Options

    1. Disney World, Orlando, Florida – 6-day/5-night stay at Disney’s Grand Floridian Deluxe Hotel. Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa is a Victorian-style Disney Deluxe Resort distinguished as the flagship hotel of the Walt Disney World Resorts and offering world-class dining, entertainment, and luxurious accommodations in its six striking red-gabled buildings. This magnificent hotel sits along the white-sand shores of Seven Seas Lagoon. This trip includes a round-trip airfare credit, Disney Park Hopper Passes, Disney dining meal plan, transportation to and from the airport, and transportation to all Disney properties and theme parks.

    2. Maui, Hawaii – 5-day/4-night stay at the Wailea Beach Marriott Resort and Spa, which is located between two beautiful beaches with pristine white sands and endless blue water. This trip includes a round-trip airfare credit, transportation from the airport to the hotel, Lei greeting, and a helicopter tour ride.

    3. Ocho Rios, Jamaica – 5-day/4-night stay at the Beaches Boscobel, which takes advantage of its stunning seaside locale to infuse all of its accommodations with the flavor of Jamaica. This trip includes a round-trip airfare credit and access to Pirates Island Water Park. Parent magazine voted Beaches Boscobel among the Top 10 Best Beach Resorts.

    4. Celebrity Cruise – 10-day/9-night trip package, including a 7-night cruise from Seattle on the Seattle Celebrity Solstice, 3 nights at a 4-star hotel, and a Mount Rainer sightseeing trip.

    5. Princess Cruise – 10-day/9-night Alaskan cruise on the Coral Princess. This trip includes a 7-day voyage of the glaciers cruise, 1 night at Mount McKinley Princess Wilderness Lodge, 1 night at the Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge, a natural history tour, and a 1-night Fairbanks with Sternwheeler Riverboat Cruise. This cruise is perfect for witnessing all that Alaska has to offer.

    Passports are required for all international trips.

  116. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2012 9:55 am

    Thx Amthrax…Perhaps I am miscalculating but As fars as I can tell…

    #1 “Incentive Trip” will cost ‘someone’s team’ $36,000 dollars @ a minimum: 6000 points or 6000 thousands dollars x 6 months! I don’t believe everything in their system is point for dollar so that would be the minimum?

    #2 “Incentive Trip” will cost someone’s team $90,000 bucks…15,000 points or (15 thousands dollars) x 6 months!!!!

    Holy Smokes…Where else can you get your team to pay for an “incentive trip” that costs 90 grand?!!

    How many people does it take to pay for 1 person to take a trip worth 90 grand?!!!

    Brent or Mike…I know would have the answer to this? Could you help us out? or perhaps 200 points per person divided by 15,000 points per month?

  117. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2012 10:35 am

    It IS an “incentive” alright….but appears the real “incentive” is for the PC! It pretty much makes it a no-brainer why they are “promoting” these ‘trips’…and no doubt they are getting these ‘packages’ with a negogiated low cost and probably making money off them on top of the 90 grand as if that isn’t enough? Wow, the greed is astonishing!

  118. Soon2BOut permalink
    May 15, 2012 1:33 pm

    During the major, when they were talking about the trips, the PC had joked saying “I wondered where all this money is coming from, so I asked Orrin and he laughs and said crazy aint it”. WTF DOES THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?!?!?! Basically, you get your whole team to keep doing the MFC and thats how the points start. So basically get crap ton of people under neath you and in your 2nd leg and boom! you get a trip!

  119. Finally permalink
    May 15, 2012 4:52 pm

    WOW…….and the lemmings keep heading for the cliff LOL Anyone remember when the PC was promoting for everyone to go out to Utah for the MV seminar? It was in 2010 i believe and it was righ after a major. Anyway the profit sharers were promoting the heck out of it and so were the PC at opens. The reason I bring this up is that the tickets were $125 when you bought them from your profit sharer……the cost to the profit sharer $90, yep that is right they were beating you out of $35 right off the bat and right after a major and including the cost of the trip to Utah. Now on what planet is that looking out for your team and making sure they get the “information”. These incentive trips are designed to pad the pockets of the PC and nothing else. You end up paying for your own trip while you line the PC’s pockets. What a joke. One other point on the MV seminar. My friends on the liberators told me that Dolores and Jim Martin talked to their 3 profit sharers and they all had to vote on ripping off their teammates for the $35 and they all voted yes…………way to go Liberators. I wonder how many of their team knows this?? They are the same ones that are buying into the incentive trips………..

  120. Doogie Brents permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:21 pm

    First question for the writer: What is your motivation for writing this? What is your connection to TEAM/LIFE? What is your connection to Amway/Quixtar?

    If you can answer these satisfactorily I would love to hear what you have to say, but if you are only discrediting a man because he has a differing opinion about a company that you are working with then it put into question every one of your assertions.

    If you would care to respond, I would love to hear from you at

  121. May 15, 2012 5:28 pm

    @Doogie Brents – read the about page to answer your questions.

  122. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:45 pm


    So what you are saying is Monavie was charging 90 bucks and the dirtbags charged their team $125. Did I read that right? OMg… What would Dallin have to say about that? hmm….let me guess! Now that is some integrity NOT or is that what they call “captialism”!

    Just when I thought I was over the WOW factor of how LOW LIEfers will go to fleece their very own ‘friends and teammates’.. but these dirtbags struck AGAIN! How dare them rip people off with a $35 dollars up charge from their ‘loyal’ followers!

    Was this approved and done by their PC, the Marks also? I cannot believe the level these scumbags will go, who say they are “Christians” and “care” so much for their teams! Unbelievable!

    Thanks for sharing! 🙂
    Wake up people…unless of course you are okay with this type of lack of integrity!

  123. No Team For Me permalink
    May 15, 2012 5:58 pm

    I could be wrong, but aren’t the ‘LIFE’ materials in addition to the TEAM materials? It’s my understanding the the LIFE materials basically take the place of the MV/Amway/Quixtar type products which make their other business legal. But that the TEAM materials are still the main materials they push.

    Life materials are in addition to the basic community building training CD’s they’ve always had.

    I could be wrong, but my understanding is that bonuses are only paid to the masses for LIFE materials, not TEAM materials. If that is so, then the above calculations for $36,000 and $90,000 are waaayyyyyyy low.

    Does anyone know if this is correct?

  124. Brent Hansen permalink
    May 15, 2012 7:24 pm

    Interesting…..incentive trips? Merely more compensation dollars flowing to less than 1% of the organization. Those same dollars could be utilized to reduce the mathematical failure ratio, but no way. Why not take a trip on your group’s credit cards, just like our current government, spend, spend, spend, and oh yeah…other people’s money.

  125. May 17, 2012 7:29 am

    Wake up Teammsters: This is NOT a legitimate business structure. It is a pyramid scheme. You can deny this fact to yourselves all you want but at the end of the day, in both Canada & the US, the laws surrounding MLM upholds an ill-defined concept of what ‘retail customers’ are in multi-level marketing structures. This is the wiggle room in which Orrin et. al. operate and get away with fleecing all you believers out of your money. You are all Orrin + PC’s RETAIL CUSTOMERS. They own the business, you own nothing….except some useless psychobabble that you could have bought on Amazon for a fraction of what Orrin is charging you.

    Think I’m wrong? Ask yourself this: Do you own a legal share in LIFE L.L.L.C? No? Then you have no ownership stake in Orrin’s business and therefore, not a business owner. You are a MEMBER of a very expensive book club who may, or may not one day get a little crumb of what the PC is making thrown your way.

    MEMBER does NOT EQUAL Business Owner.

    And spare me the non-sequiteur argument of “Well…everything’s a pyramid scheme…your job, the government…blah…blah…” The “I know you are, but what am I” trick is the realm of 5-year-olds.

  126. May 17, 2012 7:49 am

    Teammsters: Check out this interesting speech that TED refused to make publicly available due to its ‘controversy’:

    A business is a system. Where do you as ‘members’ fit into Orrin’s system, i.e. his business that he is a shareholder of called LIFE L.L.L.C.

    Are you consumers, or producers?

    I’ll save you the trouble because that good ol’ cognitive dissonance that Orrin is so skillfully adept at instilling in your minds which typically causes one to not be able to reason critically on these matters without an emotional reaction:

    You are consumers. Don’t think so? Ask yourself this: Do you buy stuff from LIFE L.L.L.C.? Yes you do! Very expensive ‘tools’ that you can buy elsewhere for cheaper. Oh, but you’ll get a kick back on what you buy by signing up more members…and what guarantees do you have of this? None.

    Real businesses are measurable, predictable, especially if you do good, thorough market research.

    Not one single Teammster out there can tell me the formula for calculating bonus’ and commissions. The compensation plan (that I’ve read) is purposefully confusing obfuscation of the reality of LIFE L.L.L.C. and that’s Orrin pays you whatever the ‘eff he wants to pay you and pays himself and the PC whatever they want.

  127. Brent Hansen permalink
    May 17, 2012 9:16 am

    NJ, brilliant insight in the article you provided. I actually had to slow down and read it 4 times to fully grasp the philosophy behind it. It sparks a great controversy that flies in the face of every capitalism-loving American out there.

    We have all been programmed to believe that taxing the wealthy ultimately destroys growth. But in regard to your implied analogy with the Team/Life model you hit the nail right on the head. Since the compensation structure of Team/Life only allows a very slim minority to earn anything it all, it is a self consuming, or terminally imploding model.

    True value and longevity could only exist if the masses, consumers, or middle class as illustrated in the article had the funds to support those at the top, ie. the owners of the corporation. Since 95% + of Life promoters will always operate in the red, the model would require a restructure or “taxing” of the wealthy if you will, to make it long-term.

    The elite believe their existence is to provide opportunity and leadership when in fact it is the consumers of Life products that are providing them opportunity as the gap between the haves and have nots widens. The very thing that could ensure their success is the very thing they will not do.

    Thanks for sharing.

  128. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 17, 2012 10:11 am


    Welcome to the site! Thank you a ton for your contribution, support, and your compelling comments and link to the article!!
    Hope you continue to contribute. 🙂

    Same to you on your comments, Brent and all the rest!

    Did I ever tell you all….I LOVE this site! 🙂

  129. May 17, 2012 12:35 pm

    Hey Guys, thanks for the kind words! Brent – I too am a capitalism-lover and I own/operate a small business. Capitalism is the best economic infrastructure for growth however, it is the worst economic infrastructure for equity on common and shared resources. Orrin and his cronies preach from the stage all this tough talk about ‘getting yours’, about being ‘self-sufficient’ yet they run a business that is totally the opposite of enabling that to happen for folks. MLM could be a wonderful opportunity for many people, on that I agree with you…current operations in the industry prove otherwise as you’ve mentioned many a time. This blog is proof positive in that it is revealing folks experiences in this industry. It’s a simple wealth transfer scheme, just like Canada’s and the US’s current economic state (I’m from Canada, and let me tell you folks…we’re not better off than the US, we’re just currently a little better at hiding it thanks to our dictator PM. The books are cooked). Orrin and the PC are swine in IMO for continuing to perpetuate an economically un-viable system all the while exploiting folks dreams/aspirations so they emotionally buy into it.

  130. May 17, 2012 2:10 pm

    You are an MLM dirt bag! Crap has to be done hush hush away from the masses so the truth can be hidden from the latter? How dare you ask amthrax to email you those answers! What is such a big secret that you have such a need to be privately emailed? Even I was never in TEAM/LIEf or whatever fancy they got on now and yet you are an irritant with your attitude…a gadfly. Because I recognize that hush hush attitude from somewhere and I loathe it. No big secret, it’s the pernicious, pretend, predatory MLM industry-it’s inhabitants are all the same. Conversely, here everything is discussed in the open. Get a clue or take a flying leap! But I suspect you are Odooby or one of his lieutenant cronies doing his bidding. As always good answer Amthrax!

  131. May 17, 2012 2:12 pm

    @Doogie Brents

    My previous comment is meant for captioned dirt bag gadfly.

  132. Brent Hansen permalink
    May 17, 2012 4:05 pm

    I have been preaching that for quite some time now. MLM is the purest form of capitalism I have ever witnessed. It is the only model I have seen where success in any fashion MUST come at the loss of others.

    Omit the hype and deception of the quasi business opportunity, and at best, you have a horrible retail business model that cannot stand on its own merits. Include the hype and deception and you have a plague on society.

    If people knew and understood the mathematical certainty that they would never break even, they wouldn’t engage. But as you have stated above, and given the current state of economic woes in North America, the chance of changing this industry is slim to none. If the U.S. government can guarantee loans for bankrupt crony capitalist, you can bet this filthy little industry means nothing to them. Its all about money not opportunity.

  133. May 17, 2012 4:10 pm

    Brent Hansen Said
    “It is the only model I have seen where success in any fashion MUST come at the loss of others.”

    Accurate and exactly! I rest my case on MLMs.

  134. May 18, 2012 5:57 am

    @Brent – Couldn’t agree with you more, Man!


  135. May 18, 2012 7:27 am

    “…thought processed will be renewed”

    Renewed? Ha! More like thought reform. AKA brain washing. This part is real easy to see through. Sadly not so for Teammunists as long as they drink the commercial cult’s Kool-aid. The charlatan leaders know exactly what they are perpetrating on these hapless sheeples.

    You see this MFC crap is not unique to Team nor were they it’s innovators. MFC is akin to what Tom Cruise’s religion does with all it’s courses including pricey books to boot.

  136. May 18, 2012 10:01 am

    BTW If LIEf P&P refers to Teammunists clearly as members why do they show up here and puff up that they are business owners, (IMO the puerile) Independent Business Owners? The former term clearly renders the latter nothing more than a …. label?

  137. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 18, 2012 6:31 pm


    Right on.. and are as worthless as the rest of their self-proclaimed, leaders, top in the world, men of integrity, christian and many more…. nothing but mere labels.

  138. Freedomhaha permalink
    May 19, 2012 5:29 am

    Does the fact that long time TEAMsters need their process renewed admit that the system does not work? If it did then you would have no reason to renew it.

  139. Annette Wigge permalink
    May 19, 2012 7:57 pm

    Any of u ever done Life Coaching? Very expensive. How many broke people talking?

  140. Mike Collins permalink
    May 20, 2012 7:44 pm

    Annette: We’ll show you ours if you show us yours. But since you’re the one talking………you first.

  141. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 20, 2012 8:35 pm

    Annette Wigge~

    I do not understand your point; you don’t seem to be clear in communicating it. Perhaps you could explain what you really mean.

    If you are talking about the LIEf “coaching”…they promote their “coaching” as FREE, so what is your point? And if you came to this forum to try and convince others of life coaching in general (comparing; you have no argument), that would be irrelevant and believe you found yourself on the wrong blog.

    It seems you are trying to ‘justify’ how expensive the Team LIEf “coaching” is by using the excuse all “coaching” is “expensive”. Those in this forum KNOW how expensive the Team LIEf “coaching” really is, no need to tell us that! The Team or LIEf ‘training’ is FAR from FREE, and just because they don’t send you a ‘bill’ specifically for their supposed “coaching”… They tell you to read a book and listen to a cd, and go build your business (which is their basic “coaching” methods after they have gotten you to confess to them everything about you, your spouse and finances, and proceed to “coach” you about your wrong thinking and recommend a book) doesn’t mean you are not being ‘charged!!’ Those costs are built into ALL the other methods, materials, seminars, majors, etc.. they are charging YOU for.

    The masses certainly “pay” waaayy more than necessary:
    (1) Because of the rebranded and re-selling of tools (for years now) causing many junk and obsolete tools, in all the supposed “new” programs they come up with every week, month, right before Majors, etc. First the forced spending begins through BOM, then in packs, Top 50 changed every year, (constantly changing and reselling) the MFC containing the same books that have been sold in too many times and ways to count). Causing the masses a lot of unnecessary forced spending or causing others to go broke? Perhaps this is what you meant by “how many broke people talking?”..I can’t quite understand that statement.

    (2) In almost all cases you could get those same books for free reading (at a library) or a lot cheaper used, or nearly new through other means and the cds are just book reports of those same books, (have you noticed?) which only validates our points on here and possibly yours on people going “broke”.

    Tell me how do people who file bankruptcy and legitimately or reputably “coach” others financially, have no investing qualification etc. or someone who “strategically defaulted on a multi-million dollar property?” Who would follow those lack of ethics, honesty or moral standards? Read the LIEf Primer.

    Ironically..This is what they use as one of their “Handling Objections” auto responses. Let me explain…this is a tactic they use to get YOU to “buy in” and listen to them as if they are “experts” (all knowing) in Every Area Of Your Life?….Would you “take advice” (coaching) from someone who went bankruptcy or cheats on their spouse, or who didn’t finish medical school or take marriage ‘advice/coaching’ from someone who has been divorced 3 time, take advice (coaching about college) from someone who dropped out etc..etc? In most cases that would be common sense and people in the real world don’t need to be told where to get good advice; but they can’t have it both ways.

    Here is another statement from their cult jargon they use: Find someone with the results you want and Do What They Did> but they Fail to tell you what they REALLY did and the Special Deals that were given or gotten that You will NEVER get… for those supposed ‘results.’ And 99% usually end up losing money so where is the results? Rather they will blame YOU for your lack of results as if it isn’t a mathematically certainty and for the mass majority, it has nothing to do with “effort”. Read Comp Plan Analysis or go to Pyramid Scheme Alert site.

    If you don’t get what they got, it is because they haven’t told you Everything they “did” nor the real odds! …EVEN if you worked and did everything they did, You will never get the special deals that seems a few ‘chosen’ few got. Last but not least, Orrin controls whether he thinks you are “worthy” of paying you, and for Whatever reason he fancies too He can and WILL take your entire business and income, anytime he feels like it.

    Keep reading this blog.

  142. Speak Your Truth permalink
    May 20, 2012 9:58 pm


    On the topic of this thread…What does the “MFC” program have to do with the PROMISED…Walmart of the Internet; that was the end all be all and promised for years?…Hysterical how that promised, promoted to the hilt, lawsuit driven, teams destroyed over…PROMISE never transpired(even though they OWN their OWN MLM ) Oh that is right they never deliver on their PROMISES… same with the Passive, Residua, Performanced based..LIES..

    orrin must have gotten amnesia because the Walmart of the Internet…is never spoken of again? Amazing!! Perhaps, (in their minds) they are “competing” with the electronics dept. of the Walmart?….haha..”selling” dvd’s, cds and books?

    I don’t see the connection between LIEF “coaching” and the Walmart of the Internet…but they doooo..”sell” dvd’s, cds and books?

    Hmm….how easily the indoctrination and thought reform shifts ,as the wind, just as always with the ‘program of the week’; serving nothing and no one except the Team LIEf PC and only their agenda!

  143. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 31, 2012 10:26 am

    First off, lets look at the comment from the person who said people (restaurant owners were the example) know it takes a while to make money.

    Well, that is not exactly a one size fits all statement. It would depend what business you are in..a service based business should make money in a fairly short time, or you aren’t doing something right!

    Example: Plumbers, Carpet Cleaners, etc should have a business plan in place, know upfront costs, then, if you own your business, Mr Plumber, or Mr. Carpet Cleaner should be making money, provided he has enough customers.

    Example 2: If you have a product based business, you should have done your research, have a selling point, a profit margin, be making money on shipping, etc. Yes, you will make money if you have done your homework.

    Possibly what this confused person was thinking was that you do have to leave money in your business so it can grow, take as little out as possible the first few years, depending, though, entirely what type of business it is, service, product, what type?

    The issue that is of paramount importance is how do you keep and retain your Clients/Customers? In any business, if you have to completely rebuild your Customer base year after year, something is VERY WRONG! Thats like climbing a mountain, each and every year! This indicates the Customer does not find value, or, like your product, so the next question would be WHY?

    Many times I heard leaders from stage talk about Franchising..oh please, lets get real here, what franchise do you have that can be duplicated..oh wait, they definetly duplicate losing your shirt and going into debt for their customers, so there they have me! They are DUPLICATABLE!

    The above is based soley on my opion and experiences, and boy did I have an experience!

  144. Criticalthinker permalink
    May 31, 2012 10:42 am

    I just quit the biz 2 weeks after the clallenge rolled out. Orrin and Co decided to have bi-weekly “chhallenge groups ” where you sat in a circle with abour 13 people in your team to talk abourt how much the challenge changed your life. I decided not to go to that garbage. Mine as well called it LIFE AA. Lets talk abour how much of a failure you are and let the brainwashing cult to turn you into a zombie to get your goals and dreams. I was in the biz for a littke over a year and had alreadrecieved 10 of the 16 cds, and all of tge books. In that year, I was encouraged to buy chris bradys book rascal once, laun hing a leadershiip revo lution twice (and a third rime when I got it in the subscription). 13resoloutions everyone bought at the major,and I was encoeaged to buy a couple for chfistmas presents, and then the next month that came in t subscripto. in a lttle over a year,i unwilkingly boughtbrand new copies:2rascal, 3 launching a leadership revolution, & 3 copies ov 13 resolutions. I wonder, how did launching a leadership resolution become a #1best seller? at the seminar toolroom they were selling mfc and all 3 books seperately. I think this is a conspiacy to get 13 resolutions to a bestselling book for more credibility to life, the mfc, and espessially orrin. I have a question for all of you people who were in the biz for a while during tthe time launhing a revokution came out. How many copies were you encouraged to buy and how many did you get through system?ars,

  145. Critical thinker permalink
    May 31, 2012 10:50 am

    Sorry typed this message on a smart phone and it didn’t come out too well.

  146. The Truth Hurts permalink
    May 31, 2012 10:57 am

    Thinking back over the years today, and wanted to share it with all of you..

    How did they hook me?

    How did they get me to stay in so long, and lose so much money?

    Why did I look at their business model, and still try to build a business with them? There was no logic in it, so how did they change me?

    Things I remember…

    I remember feeling like anyone who had a job was going nowhere. Why? Small business is what runs the economy of the United States, so what is so wrong with a job? How did I even think like this, me a smart person, a successful business owner already? A J O B is an honorable thing, providing for your Family is an honorable thing, and they have tried to HIJACK having an honorable job! Disgusting.

    I remember going across stage, and saying the system works, its all about the system. What exactly is the system..seriously. Tapes and CD’s that taught you to be less than honest, remember the contacting ones, the tapes that said don’t tell them what it is on the phone, you have to get them to a meeting, blah, blah, blah. Now really, if your business was so all fired GREAT, why do you have to start out by being decpetive? Why don’t you just wham bam at your first plan about Profit Sharing, drop out rates, etc? That wouldn’t hook em would it..

    I remember the fakes, fakers, etc. They looked like they were doing well, but they were not able to keep their phone turned on, had a car reposssesed, and all the while they were a moving on couple. This was truly an advertisement for the business if we had all looked hard at the time.

    I remember wondering what someone got out of a seminar, yet I went to each and every one for years. I was always trying to figure out why they were so long, what was there to hear that took three days? In fact, were the functions even necessary for the end user, or, did they need that many functions, every month? Sure they did, to line their own wallets.

    The most disturbing thing as I was in for year after year was that I knew people were losing money by the bucket full, but no one mentioned this. In fact, if someone told their upline they couldn’t afford something, a function, product, a book, their upline told them they needed to get their priorities in order..NOW THINK of this, the couple who said they could NOT afford to participate already clearly had their prioroties in order by saying the truth. Their Upline would guilt them out, and get them to suspend both belief and disbelief. That is usery of people, and not something someone does who cares for you by any measure.

    The devastation one feels after leaving is because these people acted as if they cared, acted like Family, and plainly used you up. Family should be loving, and never conditional, so these people were not Family, just wolves cleverly disguised.

    The above is based upon my opinions and experiences.

  147. June 5, 2012 9:18 am

    @Critical thinker – sorry for the late approval on your comment. Glad to see that you saw through the smoke and mirrors of the business.

  148. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    June 5, 2012 10:16 am

    Great Comments by Critical Thinker. So right on to how I was feeling toward the end of this so called business. TEAM isn’t a is a brain washing cult. They really do try to make one feel like a loser….well, since I dropped out, all my “so-called” friends from the TEAM haven’t contacted me at all…so much for friendship. LOL. Luckily I have some great friends Im making now and as I told the wife, I feel so much better now working on friendships with people because there isn’t that underlying attempt to show them the business. I can just give them myself and be a friend. 🙂

  149. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 6, 2012 6:54 am

    Critical thinker~

    Thanks for sharing! You are right on the strategic plan and is a FACT with the LLR (so one could conclude it is what they are doing with the 13 Resolutions) to try and get the book to the number #1 best seller. I cannot tell you right at this moment how MANY LLR…but could look it up. I do know it was CASES and CASES and CASES and CASES….and I do have records of every single case that was ordered through our entire group. I will tell you it was hundreds if not thousands of books! We paid for 3 personal cases alone and that doesn’t include the BOM or any single ones purchased!

    You have summed up the entire farce when you said; I was in the biz for a little over a year and had already recieved 10 of the 16 cds, and all of the books.

    It just makes a person shake their head. How people can stay in a so-called “business” and not see that they are recycling and getting to to repurchase the SAME old material you already have probably numerous copies. It is simply Greed for the few at the TOP? They continue to expect and require “encouraged to buy”.. haha..Do you have a ‘choice’ or any imput in what they put in their ‘autoship’ package?

    They expect you to re-purchase the SAME old material to the majority of the SAME people, that they have slapped a ‘new’ label and cover on ( HOW many times?)…I lost count… every time they flush out the last MLM and move to the next and forced down through their autoshipped ‘system’ for years!! It is insane and clearly validates the Greed, imo;they can’t have a conscience.

    IS the Profit from those rebranded (their personal books) even put in the Profit-sharing or does the Profit go ONLY to orrin & chris? Until their books are cracked open or they show others and are completely transparent with their profit-sharing.. they will never tell!

    So, they whine and blame the truth… is hurting their business..Well, what would they expect others to LIE? In reality you have shown by your own testimony…that maybe, just maybe…people are figuring out and basing their decisions all on their own personal experiences. And your moniker…says it all…Thanks!!

  150. Criticalthinker permalink
    June 6, 2012 8:32 am

    I Even Heard on a CD Orrin saying, to Imagine having 200,000 people in your business, you write your first book, and it immediately becomes a New York times best seller. what bull sh*t

  151. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 6, 2012 8:42 am


    There he goes again…Always implying and teaches it…with every Message he sends because imo, he is a coward and gutless and simply don’t want to say anything he can’t try and lie out of or take responsiblity for anything he says; he says 200,000 people..where is he pulling that number out of? As far as ‘gaming’ it…oh yes, it is what they DO and anyone who was ever close to him KNOWS it! What CD is that on and I would keep it if you have it!

  152. June 7, 2012 12:56 pm

    Bought in cases? Holy cow! How can “encouraging” (read forcing) teammunists into buying copies of the same book twice or thrice over be called “I own my own business” unless somebody is truly on kool-aid or that “you own your own independent business?” Eh you teammunists? How can selling that be called a business-mlm, or whatever fancy suits these pecuniary rape masters? What’s in the 2nd or 3rd copy that was not in the 1st copy, they are all from the same case? And buying extras of these wampum to give to family and friends is a joke because are those not losers, people without a dream, etc? Why spend money on such losers? I don’t get it with these mlm and teammunist charlatans – family and friends are now important because they can be used to line up their pockets, eh?

  153. June 7, 2012 1:31 pm


    “I Even Heard on a CD Orrin saying, to Imagine having 200,000 people in your business, you write your first book, and it immediately becomes a New York times best seller. what bull sh*t”

    Odooby – 200k people, no mlmbots, to sing kumbayah or be “encouraged” into buying your pretend business “tools” wampum.

    BTW that’s the whole reveal about mlm pretend businesses. It’s a group of followers, bots, to whom mlm charlatans sell tools to, that’s it, regardless of any products. Products are meant to hoodwink legal compliances – that there’s an exchange of value trading.

    This heinous joke is even more glaring where the tools sold to adherents are the mlm’s product. Really FTC, really Odooby, that’s the MFC ahem “business?”

    Good to hear the charlatans have it on CD how they game the best seller lists, because their wampum has not any credible value on it’s own in the open market place! Keep that evidence.

  154. Brent Hansen permalink
    June 7, 2012 2:05 pm

    I used to think that having a “New York Times Bestseller” was a glorious accolade until I studied how a book actually becomes a “Bestseller”. Do the research, and you can figure out exactly how it is done. Honestly, not really that impressive, and even less so knowing how the system was gamed.

  155. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 8, 2012 7:37 am


    Although your comments are so true…you are hilarious! “to sing kumbayah” hahaha..Thanks for the laughs, it is much need!..One must find some humor or overall it becomes Quite depressing!

    The lack of ethics..but oh who needs any ethics.. when they have lobbiers who game the ‘laws’ to protect them legally… In the overall ‘scheme’ it is appalling when realizing how many millions of individual souls are damaged by these arrogant, pridefully ‘groomed’ so called Christian ‘leaders’..I have no reservations that.. the team fits a destructive cult.

  156. June 8, 2012 10:14 am

    Yes laughter/humor will help ease a lot. Nevertheless, You see I very well recognize this manipulation tactic hoisted on hapless cult followers and I loath & despise it. It’s meant to string along mlmbots one more time…aimed directly at their emotional core interpreted as “the dream” – that if they each had a pile up of 200k mlm bots under their pyramid all their dreams (read bought/fulfilled by money) will be accomplished. Of course they deny it’s not about the money (yawn), but greed is greed. Been there, done that-I know it.

  157. Criticalthinker permalink
    June 10, 2012 8:57 am

    Everyone watch this video to better understand what they want out of these “challenge groups” (note the video is unlisted, you can’t even search for it on youtube). This was one of the final disturbing things that made me leave this business.I decided not to go to the first challenge group because the format and idea was so disturbing. Then we quit the next day. The link is:

    It was shown in a Team blog just a few days before the challenge group. They wouldn’t even tell us at the MFC major what the challenge group would be. I am guessing they just wanted you to show up and figure out how insane it was for yourself. Big O and his wife wrote this blog, the Militello prize couple had the “honor” to test the MFC 90 days earlier than it launched, along with other leaders. By the way Kristene Militello also edited Big O’s New Book: 13 Ways To Conform Your Life and be a LIFE Clone. The funny thing about that book is that every section of every chapter was taken from what he already said over the past couple of years on CD. But anyways, in this blog Big O states, “After the video, direct the group to gather in a circle. During discussion time a circle is a must. We’ve tried various formations, but a circle is the very best. (Even a semi-circle isn’t good enough. All participants need to see each other and feel like they are all talking not just talking to the moderator.) The Moderator needs to be seated in the circle as well. Standing up or positioning the moderator in a certain place isn’t necessary and becomes a hinderance to discussion. Everyone in a circle works great.” Is this some kind of LIFE intervention? Or are they being Challenged to prey on peoples weakness by bringing out there own weakness. It gets better. “The best part of the whole night comes with the wrap up question which is the same every time. Always asked everyone what he/she will take away from the discussion. Set it up by saying, one of the biggest principles you’ve ever learned is to have something to take away from every book, cd or event attended. The principle is to have a nugget to begin applying the next day. Doing this is when we can really start improving our lives. At this point ask what everyone’s take away from the night is. Pick a starting point- name the person- and then direct the group to go around the room from that point. Everyone always answers, even the person who hasn’t said a single word all night! It’s awesome. Even the quietest person has been soaking up the whole discussion. This is the most rewarding part of the night and where the Mental Fitness Challenge goes into application. ” He said that even the quietest person has been soaking up the whole discussion. Wow. Nothing like the new guy being subconsciously indoctrinated into the LIFE commercial cult. Also make sure your promoting CD’s books and events for the new “hungry student” to “invest” in. Whats next in the meeting Big O? “After the wrap up question, the moderator will summarize the night. This is where the moderator will ask the new people to take the challenge! Explain that some people in the room are not only participating in the MFC, some are do this as an income stream through a concept called compensated community. Take a 10 minute break, and invite those who are interested to stick around because you will be going over a short presentation of what the LIFE compensated community is. Let them know if they aren’t interested, that they are welcome to join us as at the next Challenge group in 2 weeks.” YES! Thank you! now we can show you all of your problems that you have in your life and why TEAM LIFE MFC can give you “The life that you always wanted!” (The new TEAM LIFE MFC catch phrase). People who prey on the weak certainly have no fruit on the tree that i want. just some sour lemons and crab apples in my opinion. But maybe Big O is right. Maybe his community gets to a million and were sitting here like shucks Johnny. Sure wish I wasn’t the negative in-law who quit the business to be broke for 45 years to retire on a third of my income. maybe they will let me hold my spot so I’m in at the top of the pyramid…. I mean compensated community for Big O’s 3 million mark. since there now scamming… I mean sponsoring people in other countries in the world now. I guess we can afford another 1100 dollars a month to build the Big O’s… I Mean my very own B-Type business.

    This business is a joke. They wont even tell you how the money is made in the new plan, they just say, “Go power player X amount of times to go on a free trip to Disney. Now here is your revised 15th edition power player pack. You’ll love the new Chris Brady – Bankruptcy to a Million CD. Now here’s my beautiful wife Kelly to tell you why you need to spend 200 dollars on a MFC, 10 dollars on next weeks meeting, 40 Dollars on the seminar, and 150 dollars on your major ticket. But darn it isn’t she beautiful, being financially free and all. we even had money to replace some of those missing teeth and get her a little whitening kit for her beautiful smile. I couldn’t have done it without her. Your upline also accepts cash, checks, credit cards via smartphone, so sign up today and hold your spot. Even if we hold your application and don’t process it for a week to leverage you signing up without question to put you on the team of the person who didn’t sign up cause they had questions, it’s still the best gosh darn business on the planet!”

    By the way if your one of those life members who like to browse this site every once and a while cause your not making any money, make the real decision and open up your eyes to reality. 40 round table members plus 7 PC members subtracted from your so called 20,000 people registered in LIFE equals 19953 people making money. 99.9975 % your not one of them. So i hope you can get some help and get your family and your real life back.

  158. Criticalthinker permalink
    June 10, 2012 9:16 am

    Correction 19953 people NOT making money. Just cause your little “buisness” Is cutting a 300 dollar a month check (divided by 2 because Uncle Sam needs to get paid to). Does not cover your 200 dollars spent to maintain 200 PV for your Disney trip, 70 dollars for system, 80 dollars for you and your wife to attend the weekly meetings, 80 dollars for the seminar, 300 dollars for the major tickets, and all your gas and fast food being a “Road warrior” showing your 15 plans.

  159. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:07 am


    Excellent Post!! Thanks for the laughs although this is jsut more evidence IMO of cult tactics. It is appalling they ‘charge’ people and force people sit in a “circle” who have a ‘confession’ (cult tactic) meeting and Charge people for this, are you freaking kidding? “Building & Bonding”…sounds like they are trying to take an AA/NA/ small group as they do in many religious settings (who btw DON’T charge people) and trick the prospect and then the “mediator?” is to follow the PDF script!!… Calculated strategic steps to capture all those ‘poor screwed up lost souls’ emotionally and then TAKE their 220 Bucks!

    These guys are snakes and always have been!

    Can’t thank you enough for sharing.

  160. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:08 am

    I think Amthrax ought to make a post out of this one!!!!

  161. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:10 am

    The letter from Mark Haas would be another informative posts that shows just how these “trained followers” behave behind the scenes!

  162. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:17 am

    BTW~ Although your humor is very funny…this cult of personality group should be taken very serious and readers should Think, use their common sense, do much research (red flag if they tell you only LISTEN to those with results inside the cult) do not let yourself get wrapped in “emotionally”, think as research like any real business owner doesn don’t be roped in by all the false hope and false promises! Read this site, listen to your gut!

  163. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:26 am

    CriticalThinker- Really one of the best posts on this site that I’ve read in the 7-8 months that I’ve contributed. You hit on so many important points. The video that you posted almost made me sick, but again it reaffirmed why I am here: to help people. I know for a fact that your post will help people.

    Question: How did you find Amthrax? Did you hear teamsters talking about it?

    Thanks and enjoy your freedom.

  164. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:29 am

    Can we do more? I want TEAM/CULT/LIEF scam shut down right now as I know others do. I wish that I could do more.

  165. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:34 am

    The “game-changer” is no different than it has always been and Mark M. admits it….but he fails to admit the ‘game’ is to scam others, and is a bait & switch ‘game!’

  166. Brent Hansen permalink
    June 10, 2012 10:46 am

    Critical Thinker,

    Thanks for the link, I watched the video. I also watched this video by Militello as well. Interesting how they make it look like everyone will automatically be pushed by team approach to the 50% compensation level. Kind of humorous how he
    never states the fact that it will take 300 people below you in that team before you can
    get $25 back on your $50 subscription. That’s right, that means once $15,000 in business is generated below you with team approach you have then qualified to earn $25. But then again, as Mark said, “He was just looking for a shot, that if he did the work, he would get the pay.” They try to make it sound so simple. Newsflash…if everyone just “holds their spot” the organization never grows. And the more you may be able to earn from Life, the higher the investment will be because they will ratchet up your monthly expenditures with more and bigger subscription packages, extra travel expenses, and higher expectations.

    If you are fortunate enough to be able to reach the 50% level with the volume split between two teams you will net around $1,500, but I can promise you, with all the additional expenses added in, you will barely be breaking even at that point.

    Wow, and to be a Power Player now you have to be on $200 a month worth of materials, what happened to being the most cost effective compensation plan in the industry?

    Power Players = $200 subscriptions, $50 monthly seminars, $100 monthly open meetings, meals, gas, car repairs, tires, babysitters, the list keeps growing.

    All of you who “just want a shot” how about a “shot of the truth” instead?

  167. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 11:46 am

    Amazing Post Brent…. thanks for the “shot of truth!”

  168. Criticalthinker permalink
    June 10, 2012 1:03 pm


    I showed my brother the plan, and a couple of days later he sent me a link to this site. I then read some of it , and said that these people are just mad because they didn’t make any money. This was my first month in business, using my TEAM 30 skills (Rumor, Hearsay, and Popular Opinion). I was so brainwashed by Brady, I even said to my brother that the person who put up this site was probably paid by some other MLM company to make sure people went with a different company and not team. After a couple of more months, wondering why speakers from stage always talked about how this isn’t a cult through some kind of joke, how TEAM isn’t a scam, and your job is a scam. I remember purchasing the Maximize Your Finance Pack, I Heard Chris Brady say in his Money as a Slave CD that the government is already taking money out before you even recieve it. Then I Realized that That’s what the Team was doing with there training system, re-branded tools, and LIFE subscriptions. So at this point I decided to search on Google for Orrin Woodward scam, and this website came up. I remember my brother sending me here I thought, so i started reading the blog. After I read the blog I thought that they probably changed as leaders, surely they have changed, with LIFE and all rolling out. Then I Heard Orrin say from stage at the MFC major that Dallin gave him X amount of dollars (over a Million) to do some sort of engineers analysis on the Acai berry, which sounded like complete crap to me. Then i seen how my upline treated me, and other TEAM members, how much people talked behind there TEAM’s back, including round table members talking behind PC’s back. So then I quit, and decided to go back to this site now that i was in my right mind to read the posts. I remember meeting Eric Bloomdahl, thinking that he was hiding something, and then i read about his disturbing phone calls and how he received a stolen team on this website. Then I realized that this site was based off of real experiences and not another MLM company posting slander to get back at the TEAM.

    One thing that really stuck with me when i first visited this site was the real reason why pastor Dickie left team. My up-line’s wife Let me borrow about 30 ERM CD’S ( The old AGO) and mostly every CD was pastor praising the TEAM and Orrin, Chris, Tim, ETC. And then I Visited The AGO scam-site after I Heard that pastor Dickie started the AGO. On the website, It lists the “Leaders of the AGO Foundation” Laurie Woodward, President, Jill Guzzardo, VP, Rob Hallstrand, Treasurer, (and CFO of TEAM, and CFO of LIFE, also Amy Marks, Jackie Lewis, and Lana Hamilton. This whole “charity” layout reeks scam and tax advantages. I new then that something was clearly wrong with why pastor Dickie left.

    At The MFC major, Tom Ascol, Tim Marks pastor spoke. When Tim introduced him, he said that he asked the pastor to sit through the entire weekend instead of just flying up on Saturday to see if the business of LIFE was practicing biblical principals. And then I read a post on this blog that he actually signed up to be in LIFE. I also thought it was very strange that Chris Brady was going to seminary school, and did an 80 dollar CD pack with his professor. Does he need credibility that much if this business is truly legal, moral, and ethical? And why does almost every”Leader” on stage say that they found their faith through this business? It is absolutely discussing.

    I Sure hope that people do there homework before signing up in this business. When a TEAM CD says that your in-laws think your stupid for doing this business, They really mean your family. They just can’t say that on CD. I have had upline tell me that my mom, my brother,etc. thought i was making a bad decision by doing this business because they just couldn’t see it. Meaning that they are, in Tim Marks words,”to stupid to see it”. I know most people in the business faced criticism from there family, wives, etc. because they are right. Most of my upline seemed like they were going through a TEAM midlife crisis. Like they needed this business to escape a certain problem. When the business strays away from direct selling, and tells you to just sign people up its a problem. When you have to cater your contacting CD’s tailor made to your friends and family’s issues, it’s a real problem. When your upline and other speakers call anyone not in this business that you used to hang out with, including family ( the negative brother.. o I mean the negative in- law [more TEAM appropriate]) They are controlling your life. Especially when a so called business tells you that you have to be rich in order to stop the government and the media’s control on you. The TEAM will also tell you to stop watching TV, and Listen to more CD’s. Stop reading novels, and read more books. It is not because the material is “positive”, it is because they want to control your thinking. If they have your thinking, then sites like this are just “negative criticism”. If you need more CD’s to flush out your negative thinking that you have built up for years, then they should just say that your parents and teachers raised you wrong. I certainly hope that people read in between the lines and look for the truth before making a commitment with TEAM. There are no normal business practices on the TEAM. and definitely trust in your gut before you let your heart become manipulated into making an emotional decision. Make sure that you check your “Leaders” fruit. Are they only hanging out with Team members? Is there family relationship as good as they claim that is? Are they really making money? Do they talk about doing any activities than team? And most importantly, Do you really want to be a self help junkie?

    Stand ground on your true principals before you decide to pay for the property tax on Orrin’s house, before you pay to fill the gas tank on his yacht. The real reality is that Orrin Woodward stays on top of the pyramid. No one who joined team when it was affiliated with Monavie is a PC member. They all started with Amway. 95 % of the round table members did too. Why do you think Orrin always says that those who stay will be champions? Because there is no such thing as a 2-5 year plan to become financially free.

  169. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 10, 2012 1:48 pm

    CrticalThinker- My neck is sore from nodding my head “yes” during your latest post. Outstanding!

    Brent- I don’t know if it would be legal, but I would love seeing a video of the comp plan with your analysis (aka facts) in the middle. I don’t know if you are able to do that on the legal side, but I think it would be a help to a great many people.

  170. Criticalthinker permalink
    June 10, 2012 3:01 pm

    I was in Team for about a year and a half. I read the story about the Peters a few days after i met Bloomdahl at a seminar. I wasn’t surprised by Mike’s letter from Mark Haas either because he was a little rude to some people when he spoke at a seminar

  171. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 10, 2012 6:46 pm


    Great post thanks for your honesty! They haven’t changed a bit, they mislead and call that “truth”… the only ‘changes’ …they have changed a few ‘trendy’ words with a spin but it is the same old slimy techniques!

    “Then I Heard Orrin say from stage at the MFC major that Dallin gave him X amount of dollars (over a Million) to do some sort of engineers analysis on the Acai berry, which sounded like complete crap to me.”

    Are you kidding? Hahahaha ..So Dallin needed an “engineers analysis” on a berry and was willing to pay 3 million dollars for an fuel systems “engineer” for an analysis?.. I am sorry that is hysterical! Really? I HOPE Dallin is getting his eyeballs full on that line of BS, holy crap they will say anything and how many does he think fell for that one?

    Perhaps Dallin could make a statement to the newspaper and confirm this? .. Umm why would a Billion Dollar Company hire an “engineer” to study something not even related to that field? I would even venture to say even any (engineers) wouldn’t even hire orrin, he has been out of that field for 2 decades… He is so prideful and full of himself, Seriously.

    Based on years of experience in building and mounds of evidence and facts and believe this article that the information was based from court documents about the 3 million dollar contigancy “loan” orrin got from Monavie!

    And their Yes Men puppets go along with this, like it is truth? The PC sit back listen to this, and then praise & worship orrin as some guy full of integrity, honesty, and lives Biblical Principle?!! Wow….They are full of something and it isn’t those character traits!! oh wait their motto is the “end always justifies the means”.

    Also quite the spin and very intentional manipulated message…tim marks ‘planted the seed’ and set that introduction of Tom Ascol for the audience!!That is their common maniputation tactic to que the audience (consciously and subconsciously)… tim promoted Tom Ascol as if he was asked to see in 1 seminar if they were “practicing biblical principles”? Really, like all of a sudden someone could tell they weren’t in that enviroment on their best behavior after that one? Ha!

    Man…they must believe people are deaf, dumb, and blind (no I am not trying to offend) but making a point. I don’t know for sure if Tom Ascol is a part of LIEF but oh boy he should have gotten a clue by that introduction and IF he was asked to add this into his speech before hand (as many are told what areas they need hit) and IF Tom Ascol followed that request then I personally would never trust him and especially if he is getting paid in a Pastor, period. I have no doubts he was paid to speak, nuff said.

    Thanks again, your whole post is full of the same old ‘game’ and how they roll…..of misleading and manipulated messages. I am not a T.V. watcher but know enough that they are like a soap opera….you can miss watching it for years and never miss a thing!!

  172. June 10, 2012 6:58 pm

    I’d like to get an audio or video clip of Orrin saying what he said about performing an engineering analysis on the acai berry for Dallin Larsen. I certainly hope Orrin won’t be putting on his resume that he’s a foremost authority on the acai berry, given his engineering background in the automotive industry!

  173. Vogel permalink
    June 11, 2012 8:28 am

    “So Dallin needed an ‘engineers analysis’ on a berry and was willing to pay 3 million dollars for an fuel systems “engineer” for an analysis?.. I am sorry that is hysterical!”

    Oh lordy, that one made me laugh coffee out my nose. I can just picture Orrin with his slide rule and t-square out, analyzing the design features of an acai berry. Har! Where do these guys come up with this stuff? Amazing.

    THIS is the cover story they came up with to justify Orrin getting paid to bring over his downline??? C’mon TEAMers — you used to try so hard to spin good lies but now you’re just mailing it in. They may as well just roll over and die, figuratively speaking.

  174. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 11, 2012 11:18 am


    “Oh lordy, that one made me laugh coffee out my nose.”Lmao!

    Sounds like Dallin got the short end of that deal…I have seen comments and know they are not promoting MV (only as needed to keep Dallin believing orrin still loves him… I am presuming…lol); the reasoning being MV has too much bad publicity…do doubt that is true…but pretty sure orrin and his puppets can take major credit for that too!

    Wow..It just keeps getting more out there..haha. These guys are unreal and I wonder sometimes what planet are they from?

    Good to see ya comment and thanks for the always. 🙂

  175. robbyandemily permalink
    June 13, 2012 11:00 am

    The mental fitness challenge has changed my life and many of my friends!

  176. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    June 14, 2012 3:21 am

    Robby: How long have you been on Team? Explain how this is changing your life? How much money have you made so far in the mental fitness challenge? How much money have you invested into this mental fitness challenge.
    I’m sure you won’t answer these questions. If you are like I was, you would pop in here, drop these comments, and then take off. Its very sad that I was like that…but I was committed to Team and yet, there was something nagging at me that something wasn’t quite right with the Big picture. Number One, I was in this business to make money and all I was doing was draining my bank account.

  177. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    June 14, 2012 3:51 am

    Robby- I believe your statement with every ounce of my being! But you need to ask yourself and your friends if these changes are truly for the best or are you still in “going backwards to go forward” mode?!

  178. Speak Your Truth permalink
    June 14, 2012 7:10 am


    This site is like a great intervention! Great Comments! 🙂

  179. June 14, 2012 1:52 pm

    @robbyandemily Said
    “The mental fitness challenge has changed my life…”

    Sure, you are getting fleeced. And OW (O dubious) and his con masters will gladly continue to fleece I mean change your life. So far they have done that thro’ TOD, TEAM, LIEf, now MFC next year…

    “…and many of my friends!”

    Oh no!

  180. Finally permalink
    June 14, 2012 7:00 pm

    Information is neutral, motivations are not. Good people use good information for righteous reasons……..Others do not. Charles manson used brain washing techniques to get people to murder at his behest………Other’s use the same “type” of manipulation to keep people to do a number of things. What is important is why people do things that make you feel good or like some say “life changing”. Many in team have found the information to be life changing…….and for a while they would even say it was positive. But like despot leaders anyone could use positive information for devious reasons…….ie hiding the truth. Many in team have used positive information to hide the truth from the masses. Truth being that many, many in team have lied to the masses to keep them hanging on and spending money on system and leaving their family and friends for years in the hopes that they will “make it” if they just keep at it. Problem is the PC knows that maybe 1 out of 10,000 will ever make it big. That is not something that is pulled out of a hat. Team has 8 policy council members since its inception in 98………..since then they have registered well over 100,000 people in team……do the math.
    Oh, and all the claims of other’s making it……….well most of it is fabricated. Many that were supposedly “making it” have filed for bankruptcy, have had their homes foreclosed on, moved from houses to rentals, leased cars, which by the way the team claims is a poor financial decision. bottom line is team is not a good business or even a legitimate one according to their claims of so many making it. They will lie, cheat and steal to continue to make their lifestyles appear or stay where they currently are. This is not just my opinion it is factual………..many know it, have proved it and will continue to do so………

  181. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    June 15, 2012 10:00 am

    C’mon Believed. You know better. Just another drive-by Teamunist. Thats the drill.

  182. Freedomhaha permalink
    June 27, 2012 1:24 pm

    Mesha- From what I see from those still involved it is a “freedom plan”. Which is interesting because none of them have retired even though it’s past their freedom date.

  183. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 6, 2012 9:21 am


    Oh yes…I remember that how great, amazing, and mainstream they will be haha (buy, vote, and game their way there?) another waste of the Profit-sharing dollars they make off the backs of the masses. Are they financial gurus?..umm…more like they are good at circulating and freely spending others money.

    For people who claim they are more about ‘character’ than ‘reputation’..You don’t have to look far to see that is a blatant contradiction… their action speak so loudly…

  184. Gail Kline permalink
    July 11, 2012 7:02 am

    This type of site is created only with the intention of creating chaos on the web. They attack legitimate online businesses for sport, knowing individuals like to do their research when involved in something new. This site is here intentionally to throw you off with incorrect information. Please note there are only the same few that keep this going. This is a huge joke to them. I go on these sites only once to share this message. Don’t get sucked into the hate dispensed here.

  185. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 11, 2012 8:33 am

    On the contrary Gail, what we do is no joke. Nor is Team/Lief a legitimate business. We speak from experience to hopefully save others from losing time/money chasing a lie. We have plenty of OJT to draw from to give CORRECT information to those pursuing it.

  186. Mike Collins permalink
    July 11, 2012 8:41 am

    Gail: I just love when pundits such as yourself come on this thread and make declarations as you have without offering ONE single articulate response to any of the issues posted here.

    How about looking at the compensation analysis (PDF or Video) then come back and at least attempt to debunk the truth that is posted here with YOUR brand of truth instead of appearing like a ghost out of thin air to briefly pontificate your dribble then vanishing just as quickly with your BS exit line “I go on these sites only once to share this message” LOL!

    Classic MLM101: Hit and RUN!

  187. No Longer a Lifer permalink
    July 11, 2012 8:48 am

    Wow Gail, I really take offense to your words. I found this site after losing money and almost my family because of this business. Turns out the joke was on me because no one in my business really cared what i was going through personally. their only solution, read more, follow the leaders more, and don’t give up on this business. They would rather have had me lose my home and my family before leaving this business. Now that I’m out, I’m finally at PEACE and this isn’t about giving out incorrect information. This is giving out MY PERSONAL STORY of What I went through in this so called “business” . This is NOT A Business. The business is the Joke! And Hate, that is a very strong word. I don’t Hate anybody…In fact, I prayer that people on TEAM will eventually see the light and stop being controlled by others. If I hated them, I wouldn’t care what they were going through..but I do care…this is why I have told my story.

  188. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 11, 2012 10:05 am

    By the way Gail, you are in violation of your P&Ps by commenting here. Shame on you. I thought you Teamunists were better than that with your noble mission to help the country and all.

  189. Freedomhaha permalink
    July 11, 2012 3:36 pm

    Gail- So those bankruptcy papers… fake, right?

  190. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2012 4:42 pm

    Gail Kline~

    Gail, they already know the facts and truth on this blog are true. Why do you think they spend so much time blogging, bashing, and coming up with different ‘motives’ and lies for the critics and then spend so much time having to convince you, for you to “follow” and repeat it. Amazing how that goes as planned, wouldn’t you say, Gail? Real leaders and legitimate business would never discourage others from research and Think for themselves. Have you ever seen this from real world leaders or do you think this is how all people do when they are making business decisions?

    From YEARS of experience; this is how the game works Gail; Simon (orrin) says the ‘word’ and ‘sends the message’… trickling down; it is quite obvious to us what they are telling you and others. 🙂 They all start sending these supposed ‘truth’ messages from the same parroting propaganda bandwagon, from their blogs, meetings, stages, etc..But a lot of these misleaders who are trying to ‘protect’ their ill-gotten gains, are giving the misleading information and spreading lies, expect you and others to just ‘believe & trust’ them blindly, that whatever they say is “truth”. I have even read a commenter one of their blogs call orrin “the truth”; now that is scary and very cultish! Have you ever heard anyone, ever call anyone, (outside of the bible or religion), “the truth?”

    Am I right, Gail? Have you noticed everyone idolizes others, but most certainly, yet? Most never will question, why? because they, along with EVERYONE else who learn thru pressure, modeling, and love bombing, get wrapped up in the “emotion” of the ‘dream of changing the world” and then just blindly trust, repeat, and “follow!” Just because they ‘said’ and then everyone repeats that they are “Christian”, Godly, men, Honest, Guru’s, who claim vanity awards they got by telling everyone to “vote” for them, that they have Integrity? Gail, you do realize… orrin/pc pay themselves multi-millions to create blind therefore no one looks at the FACTS, uses their own common sense, critical thinking and are afraid just like you. Everyone then just takes their word for it, because they told you it is “negative”, even the FACTS? Gail, really? This would will create “doubt” and kill your business, isn’t that right Gail? Is this blind trust created and used anywhere else that you have experienced or used by anyone in a free thinking society, non cult environment, Gail? That is a very dangerous place to be; and can tell you we blindly trusted at one time too? If you had the guts to stand on your own, open your eyes to the FACTS, you would see where that got us.

    How else would we know how it all works, Gail? Have you spent years getting to know orrin, other PC, to see if he or anyone else is legit, Gail?

    You are being told exactly what to think, say, and do, and more!Iit shows in your post. Aren’t you also told to read (hit) their blogs, and stay away from “negative”, Yes?

    Check for yourself, from their last message, Gail. Has it been 2 weeks yet? Since their last propaganda (lies) that we are “Amway Drones” and “competitors” getting ‘paid’ by Amway? We aren’t getting paid anything!….vs….orrin is paying himself and others and making multi-millions? Hmm…just questions you could ask yourself Gail.

    You See, they PDCA on that LIE and figured out that it was too obvious a Lie, so they had to come up with a new (lie) propaganda, and now I am confident, according to your ‘message’ they are shifting to a new lie…we must be we are here to create “chaos” and are “attacking online legitimate businesses?” Gail, which “businesses” would that be? Is George Guzzardo your upline PC, Gail?

    Orrin sued and lost against Amway (the business he raked in from them and his tool scam, tens if not hundreds of millions for almost a decade and a half) then decided he is some kind of whistleblower, and said it was a “pyramid with hopelessly overpriced products?”, then has one of his cronies compare their comp plan to Amway’s? haha Which for all practical purposes is NOT much different if at all, for the TOP of his own pyramid scam and makes no sense why he isn’t comparing it to Wal-mart instead of Amway? He told everyone he was going to the Wal-Mart of the Internet meaning Wal-Mart Pricing, for years, do you remember this Gail or are you to new?

    He Solicited with that very message knowing people would “follow” for the “Wal-mart of the Internet” and didn’t give a sh*t who did or didn’t, which everyone was expecting but then the lawsuit and his “plan” and shenanigans were being found out. He then came up with a 3 million dollar… a joke of a bench marking study decision for everyone else by saying “ Monavie” is the greatest and pays the most for everyone….and iswhere he and by now everyone else, including everyone on your team… are going! Which equated to 3 or 4 basic choices of “juice” for $45 dollars a crack.. per bottle juice. Where he then received that 3 MILLION dollar loan or hand out depending on recruiting goals! Hmm…is it becoming clear yet?

    Now currently he has control over his very own MLM LIEF scan where HE sets the “pricing” and comp plan! Where is the ‘visionary’ guru’s, Wal-Mart pricing and all those products…years of repeating that poof, just gone. Could it be greed got in the way? Where is the comp plan that is going to pay so fairly and balanced?

    Gail, it would pay you many dividends in time, money, and effort, pain and sorrow, to use your own common sense, critical thinking, and to not be afraid of the truth and facts.

    Go ahead and Check out the LIEF comp plan analysis, videos, P&P, bankruptcies, shell companies, multimillion dollar default on Guzzardo’s dream property, people’s stories about their teams being destructed and destroyed, profit-sharing stolen by their own use of unethical and interfering in others businesses, and on and on.

    In other words, read the site and Think for yourself! If after you have done that with an objective eye, and think the LIEf business and ‘leaders’ are great, then Good luck, we are not your “enemy” as you have obviously fallen for and made to believe.

    Tell others the truth. I don’t believe it is acceptable to bring others in if you are NOT telling them first of their guarneteed failure rate Facts, it has NOTHING to do with effort or “leadership”, before they spend a DIME!

    BTW~ Any decent honest person would try and protect society from being deceived. From those who use the name of God for their own personal monetary gain.

  191. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 11, 2012 5:41 pm

    oops sorry for the many errors but thought I should clear at least this up:

    “Have you noticed everyone idolizes others, but most certainly, they idolize orrin.”

  192. John permalink
    July 11, 2012 6:51 pm

    Has anyone taken a good look at the content of the video clip that promotes the MFC? I ask all of you how long has the new Life Business been in existence? Did it not begin last fall sometime? And when exactly did the MFC begin that this promotional video advertises? Someone please help me with the facts on these questions. Here is my concern: the people testifying as to how this MFC changed their lives are the same leaders (for the most part) that have been saying for the last ten years that the Team system and the things they have learned from the Team leaders have changed their lives. For a new person who does not know who these people are in the video they will conclude that these sharp people have been changed by the things they have learned from participating in the MFC. And do they know that these people have not had more than a few months of supposedly being changed by the MFC? Amazing what three months or so participating in the MFC did for these people. Does this not seem dishonest, phony, and basically a big fat lie? The same people on that video are the same people who have for years been hawking the team cd’s and books and claiming that their lives and marriges have been changed. Now we are to believe that their lives, marriages, and families have been miraculously changed in three months or less of being exposed to the MFC. Wow! What happened to them that they needed more changing once Team Life started? Or can it be that this video is just another example of the dishonest and deceitful advertising that these people are constantly engaging in. I simply ask the team leaders on that video, “How can you say those things knowing that you are lying to the people who watch that video thinking they are really hearing a genuine testimony from a person who actually changed over time on the MFC?” The fact is the Team is deceiving people.

  193. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    July 12, 2012 6:39 am

    Oh Gail, oh Gail. Wherefor art thou Gail?

    Yup. As I suspected immediately upon reading her (Owen’s) post. Just another drive-by.


  194. July 12, 2012 9:26 am

    Teammunists have become a good source to learn a thing or some about communist dictatorships such as N.Korea. If the poor, hungry citizens of DPRK sneak into China, upon their sneak return they are met with inhumanely, illogical punitive sentences that send some on to meet their maker. The supreme leader is never happy that they now bear a knowledge of a different, more richer world than hitherto was known to them. They have to be isolated lest they quit, infest others with this new knowledge into ultimately quitting, etc. *This is not good for the supreme leader – he wants everyone to remain blind to any undue outside knowledge and worship him only, to dispense his favor only to his loyal henchmen, while expensive French wine and caviar flows in his palace to him & his only and to some considered loyal. You can imagine the poor citizens have been lied to, hoodwinked to hard labor in the fields (S.T.P., send the crop harvest to the palace by buying CDs, books, oh I am sorry what am I talking about, they don’t buy those over there, dangerous information!) and don’t even know this crap -depth of supreme leader’s lifestyle – exists this way and will never taste it (most will never break even nor be diamonds-oops sorry again they don’t do MLMs in DPRK).

    Team has it’s P&P which is designed to discourage teamunists from sneaking over the “border” to China I mean the internet to sites such as this one-exposing the truth. The supreme leader is not happy…yada yada you get the idea. They may quit, infest & influence others who might quit and thus deny the the supreme leader the guaranteed incomes (crop harvest to the palace) lifted from Gail & Co.s’ pockets via mlm wampum, CD’s, books, meetings. * (For this part you have Go back and read from * above).

    Hey thanx for the lesson Gail and Co.!

  195. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2012 11:09 am


    How fitting! I love your posts!!

  196. Speak Your Truth permalink
    July 12, 2012 11:26 am

    Gail Kline~

    Here is some more education, Gail. Bet you didn’t know, it takes 300 people on your team for only 15 of them to just break even on a $50 member auto ship?! Now Think before you jump to the hype and false hope, you have been fed! How long do you honestly think it will take YOU, the ‘leader’, to find other ‘leaders’ to get to 300 people on your team, Gail?!! How many $50 memberships and how many LOSES for those 300, will it take? It is a lot more than just 50 bucks per month to ‘build the business’, isn’t it Gail, so don’t kid yourself?!

    These FACTS and many more are explained in the LIEf Comp Plan Video’s, and is why you should watch and educate yourself! Do you see how having the Facts would give you the real realistic view and what it really takes. How about how many will to try and drag in of your family and friends; just to fail? How many Loses (ten’s of thousands of dollars?) for all 300 people does it take to get to the point for 15 measly auto ships to get paid for? I can tell you from experience…a long time and many ‘leaders’ working for orrin 6-7 days a week, to get 300 to ‘stick!’ Can you Gail, with a clear conscience bring 285 into fail so that only 15 can pay just for their auto ship!! That is unconscionable!

    I know you are new Gail…how is that? You came with your full name haha, on a site you are told NOT to come to and violated ‘your own business’ LIEf P&P! (Which you haven’t read, right Gail?). And since you have now ‘violated’ this; did you know they can take away your supposed business for that reason and many others? Pays to know the FACTS, wouldn’t you say, Gail!

    And you just show up on sites just to send a ‘message’ to people that collectively have over century or more in building and being up close, to tell us why we are here, Really? Who have also been behind the closed curtain. and spoke on stage to people like you all over, with orrin and the PC for years?!

    Many of us have had experience dating back well over a decade with orrin since First in Amway, then Quixtar, Monavie, which orrin & co ‘personal development’ was called, Team of Destiny, Team, and now Team/ LIEf, it is also called Signature Management Team, where the ‘checks’ were being paid out for profit-sharers, Gail, did you know this also?

    It is the SAME “personal development, self-help, life coaching”; with the same old practices & information on (used to be tapes) now cd’s you are currently listening to and you have been mislead into believing it is a ‘new trendy business’ they have revolutionized between now 4 trends instead used to 3 trends but they have to make it sound good. “Community Building & Networking” are basically the same and the term “Networking” has been used in many circles such as insurance for decades or longer.

    They just copy what others do , find trending words to fit the times and their agenda (which is to rake in multimillions from the masses) ; like the term “life coaching” which has also been around for at least a decade but yet they critise all these because they are the only ones who ‘better lives?’

    Did you know orrin began His, 2 decade long deceptive( very lucrative) career in Amway in 1993?; where Him and few of the good ole boys…only 7 PC in almost 2 decades? What are your odds, Gail? Really only 6 LIEF PC, because Claude Hamilton wasn’t even in orrin’s Amway business, he was a CROSSLINE!.. But now is in orrin’s LOS, along with many thousands of others?! Do you know why that is, Gail..doubt it?

    Baseball cards & the U.S. ski team is orrin & laurie’s ‘story’ when they began in Amway! The ESBI, they have been using in their ‘plan’, since RK wrote and sold his book at an Amway Major ‘leadership’ convention where he first spoke on an Amway Stage!

    So, Gail…You really should know what you are talking about before you attempt at offending with the ‘loser’ jabs, it really shows your ignorance!…You simply don’t have a clue nor do you know what or who you are talking about or to. So you can cut it with the you know why we are here, BS.

    Hope it is clear for you now, This is NO ‘sport’ for us, nor are we being paid by Amway or anyone else for that matter. This is a group of “whistleblowers” with the help of Amthrax who are helping YOU! Believe it or not, with the FACTS that I guarantee, will never be shared if ever nor so clearly; by your masters orrin & co!

  197. Brent Hansen permalink
    July 12, 2012 2:32 pm

    Exambot, I love your analogies, hahahaha…everything on Amthrax is making me laugh tonight. Good stuff, keep up the humor, its enlightening.

  198. July 13, 2012 6:04 am


    Thanx! I can’t help to notice how remarkably these MLMers’ obviously extemporaneous forays here are so educative.

  199. July 13, 2012 8:29 am

    Gail and co. your position on us is surmise, your position on your kingpin gods is well … as well surmise – they are not the saints they claim to be. They have created an insidious taxation system wantonly exercised upon unsuspecting mlm adherents like yourself, wrapped around in a disguise by wampum products like cd’s, books, etc, and you have fallen for it.

    Contrary to your stated comments we are whistle blowers to these beguiling schemes – we’ve been there and know that is what they are.

    You are obviously new to mlm pretend “industry” and in utter darkness about your *cough, cough* “leaders” just as you are about us. The reality or realness if you will, of the truths exposed on this site is like gravity – your opinion matters not to it’s realness and you have a choice to confront or skirt it. So why don’t you challenge the truths you read here or in fact see about it with your “leaders” even tho’ I bet you can’t and won’t, then report back on your findings. But will you? You can do it now or skirt these truths and take up the challenge in one or five years maybe-every MLMer fluff has a shelf life. Whatever time has to pass these truths will still be here solid and real just like gravity. Even mlm grand daddy scAmway has not been excepted in 50 years and counting.


    An MLMer fluff is an adherent whose pocket is used to, is essential and in fact the only lifeline to sustain the kingpins’ and the MLM company. They believe for a while but will never make even a least significant level; they are solidly in the 99% block making guaranteed losses. If all fluff exit the pyramid crumbles. I mean how much income can be extracted by say a diamond from platinums and above, if the latter be the only ones making a net profit?

  200. July 13, 2012 8:52 am

    Think about it if all MLMers took off from North Korea* and only the leaders are left within the borders will the regime not crumble? Who will STP I mean work the fields, buy cds, books, sorry again I mean send the fat crop after harvest to the palace. Trust me I don’t buy jerk from DPRK that’s essential to my life (being not an ignoramus American I wouldn’t mind helping the poor souls but I know it will wind up in Orrin’s palace I mean the dear or supreme leader’s palace). Translation -> I find absolutely no value in scam CD’s, books, and other overpriced MLM wampum.

    *Oh MLMers don’t live in North Korea? Well…but they sure seem to me like they suffer existence in a North Koreanesque type dictatorship. Don’t they?

  201. July 13, 2012 9:00 am

    Actually my heart wails for the people of North Korea – if only they could open their eyes. That short fat guy is not some god, all powerful and mighty. BTW feel free to translate that as well, I know you will be correct!

Leave a Reply. Because your thoughtful opinions are valued, you are encouraged to add a comment to this discussion. Don't be offended if your comments are edited for clarity or to keep out questionable matters. Off-topic and inflammatory comments may be deleted. Comments on this website are the sole responsibility of their writers. The accuracy, completeness, veracity, honesty, exactitude, factuality and politeness of comments are not guaranteed.

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: