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New Facebook Group – Is the Life/Team business destructive?

September 20, 2012

A new Facebook Group has popped up called Is the Life/Team business destructive? and it’s populated by several former TEAM members, including the Morgans and the Peters. Raquel Peters posted the following comment recently:

Hi Amthrax, just wanted to say I LOVE your site! The story you have posted about our time in Team/Team MV is VERY accurate. Since Team leaders like to call critics of their business faceless, nameless, cowards, haters and quitters, I decided to link my face and my name to our story on my Facebook page. We can let the readers decide what and who they chose to believe. I believe many people are being lied to, so I have posted my Team profit sharing pay, my system counts, my speaking pay and my experiences and opinions about the way we were treated while we were involved in this group and after we left.

Feel free to copy and share this link with anyone you like!

I hope you don’t mind I copied some of your articles to share! I am very encouraged to see your readers speaking out to help inform others. Keep up the good fight. Happy reading! 🙂

“Is Orrin Woodward’s Life/Team business destructive?”!/lifeteamdestructive

If anyone would like to speak directly to me, send me a message on the page.

It is important for me to note: Eric Blomdahl’s article “Criticism” is packed FULL of slanderous lies and the commenters do not know me personally and/or have not spent any length of time getting to know me personally. As Christians they have no business passing judgment on my heart, my motives, my character or anything else!
To Woodward, Guzzardo, Hawkins, Blomdahl and the rest…………keep lying about us it really shows your character…….or lack there of! 🙂

It is interesting to note that they are coming out publicly on Facebook to combat what they feel is a destructive business model. If you want to join the conversation over on Facebook, go to the group page here and participate!

103 Comments leave one →
  1. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:20 pm

    I am willing to answer to the best of my ability any respectful questions your readers may have.

  2. dan permalink
    September 20, 2012 1:30 pm

    It’s cool to see you on this site, I don’t have a question for you, right now. I’m new to this site and have researched alot of names that come up on here. I’m glad you are hear to clear your name and move on.

  3. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 20, 2012 2:50 pm

    Amthrax- I have some emails I may wish to publish. How would I send them to you and could you post them without the email addresses? I have documentation to back up what happened to me and would like to share it and put the lid on this bees nest once and for all so that I can be free of all the lies that have been told about me and move on. Please let me know if you would be interested in publishing them for me or perhaps I can post them on FB or both.

    Dan- Thanks for you comments. I have put up with these bullies for WAY too long. 🙂

  4. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 20, 2012 2:56 pm

    Raquel: Yeah!! You go girl!! (I vote for you putting it on fB, too….not that my opinion counts for squat here, but just sayin’… 🙂

  5. September 20, 2012 3:32 pm

    Send me an email (look for the address in my About page) and attach the emails. You may want to remove the addresses on your own beforehand or have me redact them.

    Consider posting them onto FB as well.

  6. webelieved permalink
    September 20, 2012 4:31 pm

    Dan are you in the life business?

  7. webelieved permalink
    September 20, 2012 4:35 pm

    RAQUEL- FINALLY! You are truly FREE! Sweeeet! :))

  8. Soon2BOut permalink
    September 20, 2012 7:49 pm

    Yayyyy! I am so happy!

  9. dan permalink
    September 21, 2012 3:47 am

    I have a friend who is in, and 1 that is out. I was never in but went to 1 meeting in waukesha, and threw
    Amthrax, why do I have to keep checking the boxes to get notifications on follow up emails?

  10. webelieved permalink
    September 21, 2012 4:06 am

    Dan what made you not get in? Can you talk us your honest perspective on the group and what they said, how they acted etc. Who was speaking?

  11. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 21, 2012 4:10 am

    Dan: if you went to a meeting in Waukesha….I’ll bet you a buck to a doughnut that you met Kristen Seidl…….she’s a very deep disciple, or so it seems from her blog page. She’s from Waukesha, too.

  12. dan permalink
    September 21, 2012 5:17 am

    There was a high school wrestling or football coach that I remember was up on stage speaking. He thought he was, all that and a bag of chips. There was a black lady in front of me that kept yelling “FIRED UP” through the whole thing. Though it may sound dumb, those 2 people and the speakers wife gave me the willies.
    After I asked a bunch of questions to the up line of the guy who brought me, and they couldn’t answer them, I was steered towards a group that was dressed pretty well. I said I needed to make at least 6000 a month to even consider joining. No one could show me how the pay plan worked to get me to that pay. I then said, how about 4000 a month? No answer….I then said, well……. I could handle around 2000 a month at first, just to start, and 2 people piped up and said they were at or close to that and could show me how. I pryed and pryed and found out niether of them were making 1200, but after 2 years in the business they were close. That’s 300 a week divided by 40 hours = $7.50 an hour.
    They said it was residual and guaranteed every month. I asked how big thier matrix was, and they both said it was so big!!!! they don’t even remember the actual number. I asked what the attrition was in the company, and again, no one could answer. After grilling the shit out of them, I was asked to come with them and meet the 3 main speakers in another room. I thought they were gonna gang beat me, for asking to many questions.LOL They knew I was there to expose them and the business as a fake, and they wanted me out of the main room so no one else could hear the questions I was asking.

  13. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 21, 2012 6:10 am

    Dan: you must have been at the same meeting that someone else was at…I though I read about the African American woman who kept yelling “Fired Up!!” incessantly at some SE WI meeting, too (but I think you’re in MI?). Now, at this meeting, they didn’t expect new people to haul out their cell phones and start cold-calling? That’s what they did to my son at one point……and when I had a few questions during “the pitch”, he hemmed and hawed around because he was being listened to. Ohhhh, wait a minute…yeah, one of the upper poohbas IS/WAS a coach….others on here will know just who that is. Was it Blomdahl?

  14. September 21, 2012 7:39 am

    @Dan – I think the notifications are on a post-by-post basis. You can follow the comments feed in an RSS reader by adding

  15. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 21, 2012 7:47 am

    Just want to let you know, last week I was asked to meet with one of Dan Hawkins leaders, Amy Clark and she didn’t want to meet unless she could bring Dan along. I was told they wanted to hear my side of the story after her best friend Susan found out what really happened to me and told her Team friends. We lost connection over the years and she had quit Team long ago, so when she asked why i was gone I told her the truth. I had no idea she now was in LIFE.

    When Susan found out she told her team. Of course the leaders didn’t like that she told them the truth so they called a special meeting in her team, which is standard procedure. Dan came in with Jammie Fisher stood up in front of the group and said he was there to answer their questions. Apparently he didn’t like the questions Susan and her husband asked him about us and Pastor Dickie. When she asked if Dan had spoken directly with Pastor Dickie to verify what he was telling the group, she was told she was being argumentative! (Who does Dan think he is? This is BULLYING Dan, not leadership!) He shut her down and then changed the subject. From what I understand Dan said he “didn’t need to” talk to Pastor Dickie, but he sure had no problem telling the whole group lies about why Pastor left the Team. Isn’t it amazing no one in the group had any integrity and stood up and said “isn’t that what you teach others to do go directly to the source”! Is this how they treat people when they ask questions and point out their hypocrisy? There was even a Pastor in the room who did nothing from what i was told!!!

    This is how damage control is done on the Team. Is this how they lead people to the truth as they claim? Where do you think Dan got his information, perhaps Guzzardo or Woodward since it wasn’t from the source? Typical Team behavior, hiding information from followers and telling them whatever they WANT them to believe! They obviously don’t follow their own teaching on conflict resolution! It’s really disgusting! THIS is why I have come forward with my name to tell my own story. I am done watching them lie to and abuse people!

    I find it quite interesting that Dan, whom I sponsored into Team NEVER talked to me after disappearing from Team in late 08, would all of the sudden want to meet with me to hear my story. I also find it appalling that he has been telling people why I left Team all these years and yet has NEVER talked directly to me about it. Seems to me he and other leaders have been acting like they knew my side of the story all along, since they all have been speaking FOR me. Regardless, I agreed to meet him under some specific conditions.1. Dan would write me an apology for all the lies they told about us. 2. I could bring the Pastor of my choice to the meeting. 3. I could bring my attorney 4. I would video tape the meeting so no one could misrepresent what anyone said 5. Dan would agree in writing that I could post the meeting on YouTube/internet so all the followers could see their conflict resolution in action.

    From what i have been told, he refused.

    I am not surprised, yet I wonder what he is so afraid of? It is AMAZING to me what people will do to keep their money. It is evident what is important to all the leaders I worked with. Money over truth, and they should be ashamed of themselves. I do know Dan could NEVER fix what has happened, it’s a few years too late for that. I also know Dan already knows what happened to us because he been reading this site and he watched much of it, and participated in some things, however I thought I would do the right thing and tell him myself so he could stop spreading rumors. So much for their conflict resolution…..I guess it’s called lying.

    It is important to note that Jammie Fisher,John and Penny Graf and others also know what happened to me and why I walked away from the Team, yet they chose to stay and not tell people the truth! They all pretend I do not exist.Isn’t that sad ? Especially after I left my kids for years to help them!

    ………. It’s apparent they have lost their moral compass. Where’s their integrity and honesty? I do want to say, when they chose to turn the other way and leave this abusive group, I will talk with them and forgive them for what they have done, just as I have been forgiven by others. Some of them were my very best friends for many years. I pray God softens their hearts and they come clean soon before they hurt more people. Even though they don’t like it and it pains me I have a MORAL OBLIGATION to tell the whole truth. 😦

    [Editor’s note: Added paragraph breaks for better readability]

  16. AlmostIn permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:29 am


    Can never iterate these sites enough for the good information they provide about MLM’s. Anyone who questions anything about what they experienced will be able to piece together what MLM’s are really all about.
    I briefly experienced team/LIFE and ran, but lost someone to it. I, too, got the willies but more from the way everyone attending the Major didn’t want to miss any of the “good information” they were going to get that weekend. I didn’t get one speck of good information, instead I got nausous from being exposed to creepy (audience) and Egotistic (Orrin & Co) behavior. I wanted as far away from this as I can get all while telling others what
    to expect if approached by the LIFEbots.

    @Raquel Peters

    I am happy that you are getting your information and experiences out here. I wish you well in putting Team/MV behind you. It’s hard to read or hear words from people you trusted speaking trash of you, but don’t give them that power.

  17. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:41 am

    Raquel: I think this post of yours should be a separate thread, too! It’s an excellent example of the hypocrisy and might make others stop to think: it could happen to them, too.

  18. Freedomhaha permalink
    September 21, 2012 12:49 pm

    Raquel- By doing this you are going to save a ton of lives!! I want the end of TEAM to come sooner rather than later. I want a couple of my friends back from the evil cult.

  19. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 21, 2012 1:12 pm

    Age of Wisdom- I assure you this type of behavior by leaders is not the exception but the rule especially when big leaders, pastors, anyone with influence leaves the business. Unfortunately I was a very public figure on the Team in Wisconsin ( the second largest state as far as the Team’s business goes). I built my business, no one built it for me. I and then my husband and I did the work and anyone that was in Wisconsin knows this is the truth. Many wonder where I went, I am sure. I did meetings all over Wisconsin in my teams, I also spoke almost every Tuesday night at recruiting meetings for years, I spoke on stage at every seminar for years, I also was paid by Team to speak all over the country. All the people who saw me speak know I am genuine person and a straight shooter… of course Team/Orrin and all the rest want me to shut up. Let me say to everyone I am DONE putting up with the abuse our family has endured these past few years due to all the Team has done to us. Woodward, Guzzardo, Blomdahl and Team screwed us over BIG TIME in my opinion and I am done being silent about it. I am done hiding their crap. They and other leaders went around while I was very ill and told lies, repeated whatever crap they were told by their up-line, slandered me in my small town and now their lies are being found out. I guess that is what happens when you lie. The ole saying “lie about me and i will tell the truth about you”…. is coming true. 🙂

  20. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 21, 2012 1:58 pm

    Freedomhaha- Feel free to print off the articles and show your friends if it helps. I may be posting emails backing up my story in the next week. I really hope by coming forward others will have the courage to do it too. Orrin and the PC hurt and lied to a lot of people. I did see Jeff Granger is commenting on the FB page! Pretty cool! 🙂 He was in the top 50 cd pack at one time, along with John and Melanie Morgan. If the PC can do all of this to BIG leaders they will do it to anyone. Anyone would be an idiot to build this so called business knowing all this has happened to so many former leaders as well as what Orrin put in the LIFE p and p’s! We will be posting an article about that on FB as well. Then they stand and promote pipeline income……yeah right.

  21. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 21, 2012 2:08 pm

    Raquel: I know you weren’t the exception….that’s why I’d like to see this part of your story as a separate thread, meaning it’d be “on top” for the new people that keep finding the site, and then it won’t be lost in a list of posts as the days wear on. I think you should put that over on the new fB page, too. I just can’t believe how they kept up the besmirching of you…and my son is involved with those people? Makes me wanna gag, it truly does.

  22. No Team For Me permalink
    September 21, 2012 3:53 pm

    Go Raquel!!!!! This scam needs to be stopped!!!!! I still say we need to get a bunch of us to show up at one of the majors and get the truth out!!!! Yes, it would cost some money and time. But think how many lives we could potentially save from this awful scam. These people need to be exposed!

  23. dan permalink
    September 21, 2012 3:57 pm

    I don’t know what a major is but I’ll go to the waukesha meeting with someone!

  24. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 21, 2012 4:11 pm

    When’s the next big open meeting in the SE WI area?

  25. Freedomhaha permalink
    September 21, 2012 4:48 pm

    I would be willing to show up at a meeting as well.

  26. September 21, 2012 5:25 pm


    Thanks for sharing your story. There’s many people that are reading this blog that don’t post comments but keep the truth coming, its making a difference.

  27. No Team For Me permalink
    September 21, 2012 5:51 pm

    I really think we ought to. Imagine if someone had been there to warn us. We may not have listened then, but you never know, it may have made us slow down and do more research before we got hooked on the line.

  28. Soon2BOut permalink
    September 21, 2012 7:45 pm

    If you’re in WI and you’re talking about a wrestling coach, it could of been Steve Lurqwin. (sp?)

  29. Susan Lovelace permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:03 pm

    I want to confirm that the above meeting did occur and Dan did say I was being argumentative when I started to ask of him what he expected of me, documentation, confirmation of the truth and yet I was not willing to listen to the other side, which was really their side not the truth! Dan has never talked to Raquel and states she refuses to, he asked what does she want? Does she want her business back? I would like to resolve this so she can move on with her life. He has not talked to Pastor Dickie because the info did not concern him or his business personally, and yet he could sit there at the meeting and tell us “facts” of what occurred? How is this so? When I first spoke to “MY TEAM” I was told by the leaders I needed to see proof to see these documents the Raquel supposedly had. They called a meeting Monday night knowing I was not going to meet with Raquel until Thursday. Ha I got in the car with my friend and we went immediately so when we walked in that meeting we had facts and I am thinking that is when I was shut down, when I asked do you have proof documents, you talked to Pastor Dickie? I went to Raquels I saw the documents, I saw the emails I saw you were given the Stadel organization I saw Orrins response, George Jill the office everything what proof do you have. i just do not believe Pastor Dickie would just walk away from something that was so just. Needless to say Dan raised his voice and said I was just being argumentative and was not willing to listen to both sides of the story. Then the entire subject was changed by Amy Clark to focus on the polices and procedures. Needless to say the meeting was really only called to attempt to cover the truth with misleading incomplete thoughts. Dan quoted a bunch of one liners from books he read and and just blew off the real reason why we were there.

  30. Susan Lovelace permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:06 pm

    I really think they thought I was not going to show up, that they would call this meeting and I would not be willing to face them and their Truth! I have faced the Truth, I have read emails, saw income statements, seen back offices, talked to the Morgans, talked to Pastor Dickie, I know the truth and I am so glad that this page is here for others to learn the real Truth as well! I was once mentored to seek truth, both sides of the story and that some where in between was the actual truth. If only 1% of what I found out was true then so be it, I won’t be involved with even 1% of deception!

  31. Susan Lovelace permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:16 pm

    Today’s rip off from LIFE/TEAM~I did not receive my commission for August 2012 yes this current payment due this month, yesterday over $300.00 has been withheld from me! Awesome character, integrity based business!!! If you see or know someone in this business look them in the face and say I am sorry you have gotten involved it is never to late to do the RIGHT, MORAL thing, walk away, resign and move on!

    The bonuses are paid out direct deposit into the accounts.I have received my commission monthly by the 20th of every month since April. There is no reason for me to not receive my pay according to their polices. Here it is: ~~ added to where I feel my bonus should be paid~~

    11.1- Effect of Cancellation
    So long as a Member remains active and complies with the terms of the Agreement,
    including these Policies and Procedures, LIFE shall pay commissions to such Member in
    accordance with the Compensation Plan. A Member’s bonuses and commissions constitute the
    entire consideration for the Member’s efforts in generating sales and all activities related to
    generating sales (including building a Downline Organization). Following a Member’s nonrenewal of his or her Agreement, cancellation for inactivity, or voluntary or involuntary 37
    cancellation of his or her Agreement (all of these methods are collectively referred to as
    “cancellation”), the former Member shall have no right, title, claim or interest to the Downline
    Organization which he or she operated, or any commission or bonus from the sales generated by
    the Downline Organization. Upon cancellation, a Member will lose all rights as a Member.
    This includes the right to sell LIFE products and services and the right to receive future
    commissions, bonuses, or other income resulting from the sales and other activities of the
    Member’s former Downline Organization. In the event of cancellation, Members agree to
    waive all rights they may have, including but not limited to property rights, to their former
    Downline Organization and to any bonuses, commissions or other remuneration derived
    from the sales and other activities of his or her former Downline Organization.
    Following cancellation of a Member’s Agreement, the former Member shall not hold
    himself or herself out as a LIFE Member and shall not have the right to sell LIFE products or
    services. ~~A Member whose business is cancelled shall receive commissions and bonuses only
    for the last full pay period he or she was active prior to cancellation~~~ (less any amounts withheld
    during an investigation preceding an involuntary cancellation).

    I later finally received an email saying they sent me a check? I have gotten all my compensation paid direct deposit, why they change?

    Here is my exact pay outs starting in April:

    4/18/2012 4/18/2012 Deposit-ACH-A-LIVING LIVING INTENTION (COMMISSION) $53.25 5/17/2012 5/17/2012 Deposit-ACH-A-LIVING LIVING INTENTION (COMMISSION) $209.73 6/19/2012 6/19/2012 Deposit-ACH-A-LIVING LIVING INTENTION (COMMISSION) $51.25 7/19/2012 7/19/2012 Deposit-ACH-A-LIVING LIVING INTENTION (COMMISSION) $134.10

    I was supposed to get it as you can see by the latest the 19th directly deposited in my account. I find it strange that I emailed them a few times and never had the response they were mailing my check. I will post the emails they state I should have the $ directly deposited in my account on the 20th and not to reply until the 21st.

    From: Susanllovelace []
    Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 4:34 PM
    Subject: RE: LIFE Subscription Status

    As of today I have not received my commission for August. I read in the polices that when you resign you will get paid on your last full month. The commission is@ 308.00. Also can we have an RMA# for this months subscription thank you.

    Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

    Note the date on that email September 18th now here is the response:Subject: RE: LIFE Subscription Status

    From: Barbara Wolosonowich

    Hello Susan,

    The commission will be paid on the 20th. If you still haven’t received anything by the 21st please let me know.

    Thank you and have a great day!

    Barbara Wolosonowich
    LIFE Support Representative
    F: 810-733-7959

    Sent yesterday twice

    I still have yet to receive my commission for August. Can you please fix the issue.
    Thank you

    Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

    I still have yet to receive my commission for August. Can you please fix the issue.
    Thank you

    Sent from my U.S. Cellular© Smartphone

    Today: From: []
    Sent: Friday, September 21, 2012 1:04 PM
    Subject: Customer Support

    Susan Lovelace says:

    This is my third email requesting I receive my commission that I earned for work in July and August. I worked vet hard to build volume and got people to seminars and opens.please pay my commission it is over 300.00 and it will help cover expenses from those months. Susan Lovelace

    The new response today way different from being deposited in my account! Do they ever do what they say, this may be small but if they lie on the small things they will lie on the big things!

    Hello Susan,

    A check for your August Commission was mailed to you on 9/18/12. We ask that you allow 5 – 7 business days for the check to arrive.

    Thank you,

    LIFE Support

    We will see if this check comes, I wonder why they decided to pay me? Could it have been me exposing them?

    [Editor’s note: formatted for better readability]

  32. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 21, 2012 8:33 pm

    Luerquin I believe. I think it would be fun to go to a seminar or open and ask the speakers some questions.

  33. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 22, 2012 6:53 am

    Leurquin 🙂

  34. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 22, 2012 7:23 am

    Lol! I always got it wrong! I’m a sanguine! Lol! Sorry Steve!

  35. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 23, 2012 5:42 am

    @Susan: what a hoot, eh? You got everything by direct deposit and suddenly it’s by snail-mail check? Well, one of two things, I’d guess: 1) they’re low on funds or 2) you’re now on the “poopie” list?

  36. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 23, 2012 2:37 pm

    For those who can appreciate and would need some humor. 🙂

    You Could Be an EX-team Liefer… IF:

    …If you have woken up and faced the facts that you are NOT going to get financially free, or you will never get a passive, residual, pipeline, b-type, willable, ongoing for the rest of your life income, because you were lied to.

    .. If you have faced the truth that the PC Lie..f..ers do not have all the answers in every area of your life and you realize the only true friendship and love they had for you was the fake friendship and love affair they had with Your bank account.

    ..If you can clearly see the comp plan is designed similarly to your domestic vacuum, it sucks every red cent from (your bank account & CC) ‘bottom’ folks..Sucked up to the ‘top’ (7 PC bank accounts to pay their CC bills and lifestyles) or the 96% won’t make enough to pay for their auto-ship…and the chances of ever organically making it to PC?…Well, let’s say it is slim but closer to none.

    ..If you have found yourself having to re-learn to speak your proper and normal native language because no one else knew what the hail you were saying while you were a team liefer; you no longer speak from the dictionary of the cult jargon or speak only in clichés, and quotes.

    ..If you no longer find yourself saying; fired-up, you can do it buddy, keep rockin,… and you no longer find yourself saying, I love you man and you are ‘the man’ (even to the women).
    ..If you no longer are sleep deprived or and you have picked up your favorite center piece from the waitress at your usual TUE night dinner table because you no longer consider that home and haven’t eaten there since you became an ‘ex’ and you avoid the fast food joints like the plague.

    ..If you no longer brag about and or think it is a badge of honor and courage to go STP; during a tornado siren going off, flash flood, hail storm, ice storm, blizzard, earthquake, tsunami; or when all other sane people are taking cover from danger.

    ..If you have dumped your blue suit, white shirt, and red tie off at the goodwill after wearing it for 5..6 nights a week, for years; to all business meetings and to someone’s house even if you know it is to be a casual event (after you told them you were coming over to ‘show them something’) like a cook out, mud volleyball, swimming party.

    ..If you no longer have to pick your ‘bag of tools’ up, off the door knob from your prospect that has just shut out the lights and hid on the floor when they saw you coming.
    ..If your trunk of your vehicle is now used for its intended purpose and no longer chuck full of multiple thousands of dollars full of useless MLM; cd’s. books, dvd’s, brochures, a board and easel, and you no longer brag you have a ‘university on wheels’.

    ..If you find yourself spending time with those you consider your true friends and those off your ‘family tree’ are your ‘family’ again and you no longer consider your in-laws..out-laws or broke losers along with the rest of the world who weren’t on your team that will work til they are 65, dead, broke, and or disabled.

    ..If you now are happier than ever because you now have your time and money and family back.

    Woo hoo!…Oh ya they say that too..haha 🙂

  37. Brent Hansen permalink
    September 23, 2012 4:19 pm

    Great comment Speak!

  38. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 23, 2012 5:35 pm

    Speak your Truth- That is HILARIOUS and oh so true!

  39. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 23, 2012 8:06 pm

    “After you have quit following the “Yellow Brick Road”, let go of Mary Poppin’s Unbrella or You swear there is NO other explanation and you swear you have been “Roofied!”~ Melanie Morgan from FB page….

  40. Speak Your Truth permalink
    September 23, 2012 8:08 pm


    Way to go, thanks for having the Guts! 🙂

  41. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 24, 2012 2:31 am

    Roofied….haha! LOL! That is funny, sad and true at the same time. Melanie is hilarious!

  42. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 24, 2012 2:42 am

    There is a post on the FB page called “You may be a LIFE/Team leader if……..”
    This post may help a parent or friend of someone trapped in Team understand how their loved one may be thinking.

    If there is anything I can do to help a loved one see the other side of this group, please let me know. Send me a private message on FB, I will do what I can.

  43. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 24, 2012 2:46 am

    Susan- Great post above. I find it interesting that all of the sudden they answered you after you exposed them online. It doesn’t surprise me. I was charged by the Team office for a website subscription AFTER they took my team and income from me!!!

    Can you even believe it?!

  44. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 24, 2012 2:58 am

    I wanted to say I love your transparency Susan…..Orrin cannot change the truth. That is what is so interesting about all of this. Nothing will stop the truth. Facts and documents can prove all of this and Orrin knows it.

    I bet he is steaming out his ears right now that women are exposing him. I guess he messed with the wrong ladies…….

    He cannot afford to have a bad image online, but I guess he should’ve thought about that before he screwed over a bunch of his own leaders. Maybe he hasn’t read the Starfish and the Spider…..great book by the way, all about leaders not followers. I highly recommend that book if you run an organization, want to lead at work or understand what a real leader does. You will also understand why Team will never work on a large scale because it is based on controlling it’s so called leaders. This book was another crack in my rose colored glasses and funny it came from Team! I realized what Team leadership were doing and what they were saying were two different things.

  45. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 24, 2012 6:34 pm

    Egad: some of the LIfEBOTS are alive and well over on the new Facebook site by Raquel and Melanie……I could NOT BELIEVE what I was reading from Carol Miller (under Emily’s story of leaving) regarding things like: how much Orrin gave up and the multi-millions he spent (sounds kind of ridiculous–um, where’d he get the multi-millions from in the first place?) to bring people to their potential and Christ, etc. Did she think the group sentiment on that wall/timeline page was to feel sorry for the multi-millionaire taking tool and ticket money from everyone and anyone to further his lavish yachting lifestyle or Hawkins’s mansion?

    AND, don’t you know, we are too stupid to realize how Woody etals organization has saved addicts, saved marriages, brought parents together with their children…you name it, and the LIFE Gods have done it.

    It just screamed blind indoctrination—she talked as if those of you that had been in have/had no clue as to Orrin etals real intent and all the good they’d done….excuse me, I have to get off of Amthrax now, and go vomit as an elderly parent who was cast down by one of the later inductees into this wonderful world of CDs and books that are saving marriages, etc. Un-freaking-believable!

    Brent Hansen had a good answer for her

    (Note: am NOT saying there’s nothing good in any of the LIFE info…but this was just plain evangelical in nature—by the end of her post, I thought I’d see someone talking in “LIFE tongues.”)

  46. Raquel Peters permalink
    September 24, 2012 10:29 pm

    AgeofWisdom- LOL! Pretty amazing to see indoctrination and idolatry in action hey? Carol is big enough in the business to know some of what is really going on. She has a reputation to manage. How did you like when she was called out on taking David’s business? Should be an interesting conversation.

    Amthrax- Had a commenter post a conversation with Orrin and then Bobbie Dickie about why he and his dad, Pastor Dickie left team. It seems Orrin may have been caught in a lie. Check it out.

  47. No Team For Me permalink
    September 25, 2012 6:47 am

    Where is this conversation with Bobbie Dickie regarding Pastor Dickie? The pastor was such a good man.

  48. September 26, 2012 8:50 am

    Not Carol Miller!!! Please say it isn’t so. She and her husband, Chris, were some of the most genuine, sincere people I had ever met and now they are ruined by their association with Orrin Woodward. They built the business as a young Amish couple and we had the highest regard for them. I pray they see Orrin for what he really is and escape the evil clutches of Team. It is truly a sad day.

  49. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 26, 2012 11:08 am

    Jeff Granger is commenting on our page. Thanks Jeff!

  50. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 26, 2012 11:11 am

    Aparently Carol blocked some of her downline from her fb. So sad what this business does. We did open it up for them to comment again, but they haven’t. I also sent Carol a few messages , no response. :c

  51. No Team For Me permalink
    September 26, 2012 11:13 am

    Yay Jeff Granger!!!!! Let’s get the word out about these people and the lives they’ve ruined!

  52. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    September 26, 2012 11:17 am

    Hey, Raquel: it just doesn’t matter WHAT Carol does on there if they feel like searching fB…all they have to do is run a search on “LIFE/Team” like I do and your page comes up right under that one on the search. At least they could find it on their own.

  53. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 26, 2012 1:55 pm

    I meant Carol unfriended them and blocked them from her.

  54. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    September 26, 2012 2:00 pm

    I do hope over time more ex team members including ex team leaders will come out and tell the truth. I know some are hurting and some just want to move on but I can say standing up for the truth feels really good! It also is really healing! Besides helping others I am helping myself. Thanks Jeff for having the guts to speak up, I appreciate it more than you will ever know!

  55. September 27, 2012 8:10 am

    Hi, Raquel and welcome. I admit I”m an infrequent poster here but I do keep up with the new posts. Thanks for being open and so brave to talk about some of your experiences. I especially would like to know how you started to feel that something’s not right and made you to make a decision to leave. I imagine that must’ve been so hard. I have my story on my nickname here on wordpress, It’s not well-organised but it’s read-able LOL It’s called “I Left A Cult Nearly Bankrupt”.

    I joined your facebook group and posted a tiny bit of my experience.

    BTW I’m in Hamilton’s territory, he lives in Bedford, a part of the Halifax Regional Municipality here in Nova Scotia. I actually hugged the dude. Blah.

    Can you contact me, please? I have some burning questions, and worried about some people that I know who may or may not be in team. I miss their friendships. I hope I’m not imposing. Thanks.

    Regards, Izzy

  56. Raquel Peters permalink
    September 27, 2012 8:47 am

    Izzy- The story that Amthrax has posted here on us if VERY accurate. You may want to read that or check out my timeline on FB for more info.. Thanks for having the courage to tell your story. Unfortunately there are thousands more ex team members with your experience, and that makes me sad. I will contact you through fb.

  57. Raquel Peters permalink
    September 27, 2012 8:50 am

    I have texted Amy Clark and Jammie Fisher to offer to meet with them, and told them the info that is out there and I have not received even a response. I am guessing they have sent them to Orrin. Oh well ….I can sleep at night to know I have done the right thing.

  58. Raquel Peters permalink
    September 27, 2012 8:51 am

    I have also offered to meet with Hawkins if he would agree to have it taped, her declined.
    So much for their conflict resolution.

  59. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 2, 2012 12:29 pm

    Hey, Raquel: just as an “aside” here….I see Orrin has changed the way he wrote about his mother (I got this off of a more recent blog, but it’s not the one I had originally read, nor the same exact blog site–he’s got so many). Now it’s written so it make’s more sense and he doesn’t say she literally does it what he originally claimed–my point is, he MUST be reading some stuff we write.

    “If my mom needed to get over a brick wall, she would metaphorically lower her head and crash into the brick wall until it gave way. I am not exaggerating here; she would literally will herself through that wall. The amount of obstacles that I saw my mother overcome humbles me to this day.” (Orrin Woodward).

  60. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 2, 2012 12:31 pm

    Raquel: an P.S.: what a sneaky buzzard! He goes in and changes stuff so that in the future, it looks like prior quotes, etc., are inaccurate from others. Yeah….I get it….from now on, only thoroughly footnoted stuff from me.

  61. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    October 4, 2012 4:06 am

    Raquel, great to hear your intent to be open. Any slander of a pastor WILL NEVER BE A HEALTHY THING.

    One of my first impressions of the TOD|Team Undercover|T-M/V|Team-LieF was upon the first introduction to ‘the plan’ (note EXACT term used by an enormous Corporation in Ada Michigan…trying to assure I give the proper and due copy rights to my terminology) was the ‘you do not have to deliver products to people – it is all on the internet…

    — The really funny thing was like – “and Oh by the way, if you want to be a real leader and recognized by your up line to the O’s and Bill’s… YOU NEED TO HAVE A TRUNK OF TOOLS… Nothing like investing into books that can be bought on-line and shipped within 36 hours, but ..
    In order to succeed I need to buy $100’s and $100’s (or more like $1,000’s and $1,000’s??) of books and materials that might change on the latest PC/RT whim??

    NOW it just occurred to me – IF I would have filled a trunk and started selling books (rather than the juice), I would be a book salesmen and that gets recognized because THAT IS THE WHOLE GOAL – not to
    – get the info out (ever hear of that great instant information exchange that can be done as soon as a speaker is done talking called PODCAST – which has been around since about 2oo3… how many Monthly Opens and Majors does that include) via CDs or Books.
    – To REALLY GET THE INFO OUT – PODCAST ASAP… but they need to make $5.oo for each CD.
    * I got zero [o] people into the business in a very long year and a half. I have many many close friends and family that I COULD NOT PROVE THE THING I WAS SELLING WORKED, so why should I get them to steal from their family’s college fund was my logic.

    … So – the basic LLR states – Horse Buggy whips industry died, yet they tell you to fill a trunk and drive around… any person born after 1980 and has a clue on how a computer works will laugh all day at these outdated very 197os’ METHODS!!!
    Did you ever learn any of these approaches over in WI (btw – thanks for P.Ryan!!!)?

  62. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    October 4, 2012 4:28 am

    Oh of course! We had to have a trunk full of tools, and like you said of the Pc’s whim was to change the name, the mlm, anything, then those tools were obsolete. Back then you had to go to your upline for a refund… I was Sol. I had to give refunds to my downline out of my pocket. Also for many years we had to pass thousands and thousands of tools down to our teams weekly! If someone didn’t want what they ordered two weeks prior, we ate the loss. All the risk was on the Platnims/profit sharerers, not the Pc. We had tons of expenses!

    P.s. I vote Paul Ryan for PRESIDENT! Lol!

  63. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    October 4, 2012 4:34 am

    AgeofWisdom- you better KNOW Orrin is reading this site! He probably has a feed to his phone. The sad part is he can do just that and fix things based on our feed back. Funny though according to him and the PC we have no influence, yet he is making his decisions based on what we say……he should give his head a shake…..whose the leader? He is hoping we shut up, go away, I am guessing he doesn’t want all the facts out, ie his books opened etc. So there isn’t much he can do except try to keep followers from reading this site and our FB page.

  64. RAQUEL PETERS permalink
    October 4, 2012 4:43 am

    Fastfruit- It is comical how outdated their methods are, but they cannot go into the new age and use downloads etc. Because they would lose their profit center same with podcasts and opens. One thing I laugh about is he cannot brainwash people as easily without Tue group dynamic. It won’t have Tue same affect as three hundred people sitting in a room with the speaker there.

    I think its bizarre to pay to get into a home, watch a webcast, and clap for the speaker, like hosts were told to implement. Their methods get more bizarre by the week. they also are a bit more honest in what they are really selling… They cannot hide behind another product. That makes me happy there are a bit less lies. 🙂

  65. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    October 4, 2012 4:44 am

    Raquel, per your earlier points – you have put your exact “speaking costs”… etc. on Facebook.
    Can you summarize a few of those on this site at some folks are not typical Facebook daily readers?
    – costs such as: the “take on Tuesdays”, that ‘rare’ chance to go on a Saturday and hear a “millionaire”, Majors for fri or sat (or even Sunday which was very disapointing extra day of my life I did NOT want to waste)..
    – cost per CD you were on, and cost per CD you/your line sold! (these I think are 1,ooo% PROFIT.

  66. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 4, 2012 5:18 am

    We were never told how we were paid in Team on the tool side of the business. We got what they called profit sharing. Now it is a directors contract and a peer voting in system. Orrin changed that in 2009 when he took our team based on a letter my cousin Tim was solicited to write to the Team office, apparently by Guzzardo.
    We paid the same for our tools cds, books etc that you did. The profit from those things were supposed to go into a pot and be divided based on the size of our teams and our numbers. So for us to buy a trunk of tools cost us the same as it did for you. (Currently in LIFE there is a pay out on the Team side of things that is hush hush just like in Quixtar and MV, from what I understand. That pay is from the tools on the business building side.) Basically when they started LIFE they took the tool business and divided it up into Team and LIFE. We always read books on faith, family, finances, etc in Team, now they took the Team Tool side and made it into an MLM.
    I am hoping that Amthrax can post my Team pay in a spreadsheet form with the break down’s in place so people can see how much leaders are making. Also so other leaders and followers can see Orrin/Team office was messing with the profit sharing pay in 08/09 (and who knows maybe earlier.) I know my down line was paid more then me with smaller teams. Lisa Hawkins admitted it to me. If Amthrax posts it, we can comment on it there.

    I really have NOTHING to hide, my life and faults and strengths are an open book. I am not on stage pretending to be perfect. When they pick on me, twist what I say and call me names like prideful and greedy, it only makes them look worse then they already do. So have at it Orrin.

  67. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 4, 2012 5:19 am

    I will send Amthrax the spreadsheet. I also have some emails I want him to post. 🙂

  68. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 4, 2012 5:38 am

    Don’t you find it hilarious Eric and his cronies call ME prideful and greedy on his blog when they are the ones pursuing mansions, airplanes, boats, automobiles etc and I live in a 100 year old,1400 sq ft home that needs updating badly; have two cars over 10 years old with over 200,000 miles on them, I shop at Goodwill and second hand stores not St JOHNS and my family is currently barely surviving at the poverty level in income. And I am ok with that until God takes me elsewhere….. I worked for the income on Team, not for the cars, houses, etc. but to help my family and parents have a better life and to get medical care for my kids, to have time with them, etc. It was NEVER about the luxury lifestyle for me. In fact we had a paid for older dodge intrepid that had a Team40 license plate on it and we were told by Guzzardo something to the effect of, We need to get you a better car. We were just fine with our car. We didn’t need to brag, that wasn’t what we were about, EVER.

    Their hypocrisy is so ludicrous! lmao!

    I actually believed I was making a difference in people’s lives when I was building Team, of course i couldn’t see the negative difference I was also making in more people’s lives by using what I now believe to be the deceptive tactics we were taught, participating in giving them messages they weren’t good enough and the Team system had all the answers, by draining the majorities’ bank accounts on tools, product, etc.

  69. AlmostIn permalink
    October 4, 2012 6:42 pm

    It’s the name of the game for people like Woodward. Teaching all of his followers to be deceptive for his gains and omnipotence. Predators seek out the naive and prey upon their good. It’s a “I’ll get them before they get me” mentality.
    Keep speaking out and showing your proof that all is not what it appears to be through Woodward & Co/team/Life’s spewings of what this world needs from leaders like him & Co and with team/life its all in the many cd’s & books that they so generously want to make available to you.
    I’m surprised OW doesn’t trip over himself getting to all that greatness first. I can hardly contain myself, I’m walking so slow I will probably not get there in this lifetime–oh darn!

  70. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 5, 2012 5:02 am

    On Yahoo Deals today.

    $69 for One-Year Access to 77 ONLINE LEADERSHIP COURSES from FRANKLIN COVEY!

    To paraphrase- “On demand courses cover a wide range of leadership and business skills including time management and trust building that incorporates information from authors Stephen Covey and Stephen M.R. Covey; including The Speed of Trust, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.”

    Some Information Offered:

    7 Habits Jump-start
    Building Processes Excellence
    Building a High Trust Organization
    Time Management Skills
    Unleashing Your Team’s Talent
    Conflict Management
    Customer Focus
    Managing Change
    Performance Management
    Personal Productivity
    Problem Solving
    Strategic Leadership
    Talent Development

    This info goes on ……

    It is interesting to me that this is offered at such an amazing price from such a credible source. I paid $79 for only 10 to 11 TEAM cds! You know….. the ones I threw out…..
    This is just another confirmation to me what a farce Team Leadership training really was! Did those cds really teach us anything about real business?

    I believe they did teach us how to manipulate people and relationships on those cds…..remember the cd Handling Objections and Orrin’s way to deal with the question ‘How much money you making?’ He said taught us to say “You wouldn’t believe me if I told you” ……..(cause they wouldn’t). Is that leadership? Is that honest? Is that ethical and Christian way to behave? NO…..but I paid lots of money for that advice, over and over and passed that advice/cd on to many others!

    Who is more credible in the world of business and leadership, Franklin Covey and Stephen Covey……. OR……. Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady and Tim Marks?

    In my opinion and study of true leadership and the undue influence of destructive groups, Orrin is looking to produce FOLLOWERS…… NOT LEADERS.
    Orrin and company would do well to invest $79 in the Franklin Covey Course. Maybe, just maybe…………. they would learn what REAL LEADERSHIP looks like.

  71. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 5, 2012 6:16 am


    That is where they stole “their world class leadership” from among so many others, sad really. They plagiarize everything! Casey Comden used to scream this from stage as if it is a badge of honor and then the PC followed suit. They stole everything!

    Last I checked “stealing” wasn’t honorable, ethical, or Christian! As a matter of fact it is one of the 10 Commandments, not to mention it’s against the law! But they brag about it!

    Remember, they would love to say the first time you say: So-n-so says,(the real source), then you say “I” ALWAYS say…you claim it as “yours”, then the crowd cheers and laughs, they find this funny?

    Stealing and lying becomes acceptable; it is the message they are really sending. Disturbing how they desensitize the “followers”, and yes that is what they want, not leaders!

    They call others “leaders” but only to use as examples of how they want others to behave…or more bluntly…”CONFORM” and “EDIFY.” But they obviously are followers.

    Same with PDCA, John Maxwell’s…they steal Everything!

  72. Melanie Morgan permalink
    October 5, 2012 6:23 am

    Just to clarify, the PDCA is the Demming Cycle, Orrin changed the “A” to “adjust” instead of “act” and then called it HIS, and now everyone on the team thinks HE came up with it! MISleaders. And should Say John Maxwell, along with all the others who earned their reputation of respected “leaders”, Orrin and the rest steal their information and (mis) lead others into believing it is theirs…stealing it!

  73. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    October 6, 2012 6:00 am

    Raquel!!! I just studied your FB summary with Income..
    I read a study out of UofM on Pyrimids (sp much..), and a women had been a CPA (and company controller),… thus she understood income and the WORD PROFIT.
    — when she was approached by a MLM, her simple request “show me YOUR last 3 years of W-2’s, otherwise you are likely ONLY writing off EXPENSES..!

    I read one of your responders, “they choose to ignore the big guy’s request to put your kids in the closet for a while until you come home with wealth”…
    WELL, based on your HUGE numbers within legs, that were dessimated between Jan 2009 and Feb 2009 ( btw – i was just getting in back then and missed you), the proof is NO ONE will have a passive income without pulling at the PC/RT/”big3’s” ear[s].

    IF ever any huge growth, any intellegent leader would immediately partner up to be the head of their own MLM to be first in and get huge money…I dare say this will N N N N N ever be close to a mill, let alone over 20K.

    One of your responders gave copyright credit to Dr. Deming – shows some real intellect giving responses to your claims!

    My latest thought – you worked very hard for years, rather than profits, you built and build what looks huge. The real profits were skimmed off in excess (by chargin ridiculous prices for these speakers to get their new suits, and new hair cuts, and spend 100’s on GAS to drive a COACH Bus across state from Grand Blanc to Grand Rapids for a Seminar, and NO ONE has ever said, but the guys speaker’s were shoes that are about two sizes larger to REALLY LOOK BIG up there on stage (intimidation anyone).
    – no offense to yourself, but your words I read as attempt to protect others (and their families let alone THEIR CHILDREN),,,,,
    – you could do nearly as well finding as a family JUNK and selling it on eBay. IN TOD/Q*/Team Hinding from Ada/ T-Mv/ T-lieF…. your efforts are going to a “corporate structure” which takes WAY TOO MUCH from the hard workers.. sad.
    – another likely business would be selling magazines door to door and you could come out ahead and still be with your children.
    – Sad – the immediate attraction I believe is a claim you can help people, but anyone should know that if you work a little, and that work legitimately keeps paying your, that would be PERFACT (which WORKS to the ‘big 3 and 4 buds..).

    Have a great and Blessed day – and your truth has encourage myself (I was in about 1.5 years, been out over 2)…

    Funny memory – which I wrote on here on the “Summer Leadership 2012 discussion”,
    * Explain as a former RT/..etc. – IF you buy a Major ticket (say for Oct 2009 in Milwaukee WI and a person named “Jack Welch” is to be guest speaker for $90.oo….), where does the magic Money go when they announce upon arrival the “Jack can’t make it”, NO ONE ever offered a rebate on our Tickets…
    – Also, does the ‘big 3’ and others get the savings of travel and hotel for FREE since they get so many to stay at the hotel with them (a nice move of class by “spreading the cost to all the lower folk” move – leadership 1o1 – similiar to our current Administration)…

  74. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    October 6, 2012 10:50 am

    @Raquel: um, before you (or anyone) ever decides to become an ebay seller (just a tongue-in-cheek, light-hearted response, based upon something Fastfruit said): consider my dilemma as a manufacturer and the “big E” site seller of over 13 yrs experience and listed as one of the big E’s top sellers: on top of your mfg/overhead costs, you can tack on 13.9% that the Big E and PP money payment site get off of your total sales price (including your customer’s ship money); then, don’t forget a base store is almost $50/mo [the big storefronts with the mass exposure can cost 3x or more]. Then, every fixed price item rotates and recharged $0.05/month—I used to carry 1,260 different custom designs of our laser-cut product), so that added $63/mo–this can eat up over half the cost of low-ticket items. Then, to get seen in listings, Big Bro almost demands that you offer returns, no matter what, and offer free shipping. But, you might…you just might do better than break even and make a small profit if you’ve gotten items essentially for free and they sell the first month.

    (By the time one of our products was done, if we had been large enough via production, and we’d had, say, a Wal-mart or Michael’s craft store contract, a typical item could have sold for $9.99—instead, it must sell for $17.99 to get just a modest profit, if at all, when selling on the big E—we are now liquidating, and when the REAL numbers are run, there never was a profit–because were were not “big box” enough, even though we were the first mfgr’rs in the world with a concept that national magazines told us would make us filthy rich)

    As the hubby put it: you haven’t even earned 13 cents an hour at this! Guess the “Big E” can be almost as bad as MLMs, in a way, because they sucked us dry with fees and expectations.

  75. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 6, 2012 11:25 am

    Fruit- I believe the big three get their expenses paid for by the Team office. And i am sure they get a kickback for downline reserving hotels through the Team office. the risk is all dumped on the RT to lower level leaders. The PC don’t give refunds etc that i ever say. It was all dumped on us. Our expenses were ridiculous. And we had to do it all or we would be looked at as un loyal by our upline PC. We knew it. So you go to everything, host all meetings they ask you to and become submissive to them. It is sick.
    I will post some of my messages and you will see how submissive I was, I did whatever they asked me to. Even after while they were clearly screwing me over……it is so sick.

  76. Raquel Peters permalink
    October 6, 2012 11:27 am

    Wisdom- I WOULD HATE to figure out the dollars per hour I was making….or cents…. Most years I was donating to their accounts and depleting my own. Yes paying to have another night and weekend job….

  77. AlmostIn permalink
    October 7, 2012 6:17 am

    Yes, the movie “Believe” can be found on Netflix. I was amazed at the depiction this movie gives to the experiences all the posters here have stated about their time in an MLM. It should really be made into a full-fledged documentary.

    @Raquel it is truly sick how the mind twisting happens and submission becomes your only way in the scheme of things. Keep posting all your proof that what they say and do are two different things and the actions are explained away. It will hopefully show the circus act that goes on in MLM’s and open others eyes to the mere thought that they will somehow succeed.

    BTW: I couldn’t stand OW’s voice on the cd’s–like nails on a chalkboar to me. Not that this is anything big information wise, but this crossed my mind when I think about what I experienced in a brief intro to this scam. Saved me from listening to his garbble because I would tune out, but the loved one was sucked into them. Had to put them in wherever and whenever there was a cd player available, even went as far as having new ones installed when previous cd changers didn’t work because listening to as many as you could in a day would help them be a better person. A true “believe” customer/distrubutor in OW’s regime.

  78. AlmostIn permalink
    October 7, 2012 6:43 am

    @Amthrax Check this out, worth the read . It says alot about how MLM’s affect someone in all areas.

  79. Robin permalink
    October 27, 2012 1:47 pm

    Where is Jeff Grainger commenting on FB page? I always wondered what happened to them. I havn’t commented on here in a long time but I check back here from time to time. I looked all over for the page Melanie Morgan started and could not find it. Also went on the FB page link above and could not see where he was commenting.

    Also wanted to say hi to “Itsapauling” Hope all is well with you!!!

  80. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 1, 2012 11:30 pm

    Amthrax- on our page there are a couple of articles explaining in depth how the focus groups for MFC worked and how ties were done etc. Susan explained how they just changed these since the major last weekend, because they weren’t profitable or working apparently. These may make a good article for you. Also had comments from Jody Schafor and Matt Deminco I believe.

  81. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 1, 2012 11:30 pm

    Robin, he may be on my personal page.

  82. November 2, 2012 12:17 pm

    @Raquel – Do you have the link to the thread with additional comments from Jody and Matt? It’s hard to find things on Facebook! I’d like to get more corroboration that the Challenge Groups are really being discontinued. Is the statement that “they weren’t profitable or working apparently” something coming from upline or speculation?

  83. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 2, 2012 1:04 pm

    Actually it was explained by Susan, the gal who quit Life recently. I asked her to explain them. She has a friend in the business who was holding the meetings at her home for the Clarks. She told Susan next week they are going back to weekly opens instead of biweekly with focus groups on the other weeks, for the reasons above. I will get you a link.

  84. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 2, 2012 6:31 pm

    Amthrax- At the top of our page tonight there is a great video by Pastor Dickie. It may be something you want to feature at the top, since many people have gotten in the Team and stayed in the team because of him. Many still believe he is a part of Team still.

  85. Melanie Morgan permalink
    November 2, 2012 7:26 pm


    I agree great video and message! Many people may still believe Pastor is a part of the Team But he is NOT and because the PC will never share the truth or send them directly to Pastor; like they teach!! Others will not question their “upline” out of FEAR!

    ***Message for the Team Liefers Don’t be afraid to contact any of the leaders who have left, including Pastor Dickie and verify if what you “heard” is truth: The reason you don’t is because you are afraid your “upline” will find out! Ask yourself WHY would you fear your upline and WHY wouldn’t you go directly to the source like they Teach!!? Something is really wrong with that picture don’t you think?

    ***Write on your mirrors: FEAR=False Evidence Appearing Real and the only way to get over your fear is to confront it! So team Liefers have the guts to go to the person rather than just spread what they tell you. 🙂

    It is amazing that those who stayed repeated and spread the lies when asked why Pastor and all the other leaders left.

    But the most shameful is how the PC and the team lies would trump a Pastor’s own personal account? The Pc don’t practice what they preach (conflict resolution, apparently that is only for the followers to do with their “upline so they cancontrol them!)

    Example: Like when Dan Hawkins did NOT go to Pastor Dickie but supposedly knew all about why he left and felt he should spread whatever he made up, to a room full of people? Seeing the disconnect here teamers? He said he didn’t need to because it didn’t affect his business? Really,WOW. So People don’t matter? Business trumps relationships in Team Lief…yep.

    I am amazed that the scared supposed “leaders” would sit back, smirk and listen to that hypocrisy and not question Dan?; Hey, Hey, Hey…Dan, that is a blatant contradiction from what you teach! Why is it okay for Dan not to do it what he tells everyone else to do!!????

    It is fear on the part of the followers, they need to get some guts and stand up and do the right thing, by following that they are just as guilty, but then that shows how powerful the undue influence/brainwashing is and is still working on those followers.

    Another sign of a cult.

  86. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 2, 2012 7:27 pm

    here is a link to the video.

  87. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 2, 2012 7:28 pm

    Here’s a video by Pastor Dickie, regarding a visit by Chuck Bentley of Crown Ministries to Berean Baptist church in Michigan. Berean WAS the Woodwards, Bradys and Marks’ home church for many years and Pastor Dickie was their mentor. Pastor Dickie has not promoted or been a part of Team for a few years now though I am hearing Team followers are still passing out Pastors’ team cds to recruit and keep prospects in the business. Pastor Dickie is a godly man and I am guessing he will not and/or perhaps cannot say anything that would be perceived as negative about Team or it’s leadership, even though he and his family have been slandered and lied about by Team loyalists repeating the lies that they were told about them. I found this video quite interesting and informative. Perhaps it will set the record straight for readers who want to know how Pastor Dickie might view Team/Life now?……… What do you think?
    If I lived in Michigan I would be attending! 🙂

  88. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 2:11 am

    Amazing! I can’t wait to read the book!

  89. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 3, 2012 5:28 am

    That video is incredible. From 2:25 on was everything that the Team does.

  90. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 7:19 am

    I loved Pastor Dickie when I was in the business. I was SO glad when I heard he was done with Team a few years back!

  91. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 7:21 am

    Freedomhaha- I wonder if this Chuck was in Mlm? It couldn’t get any more the same…..unreal! I think this would make an amazing article!

  92. littledufflebagboy permalink
    November 3, 2012 9:05 am oh man you can see bills cars up close. you can do the same thing going to an autoshow or dealer.

  93. permalink
    November 3, 2012 9:26 am

    What a F’en joke. The way that douches site brags about his house and cars,lol

  94. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 9:55 am

    **** I expect the Team followers will try to twist what I said, so I want to be clear- I found this video and I posted it on my own. I drew my own conclusions and opinions about it and expect others to do the same. In no way do I want to cause any harm to Pastor Dickie or his family, I just found the information on Chuck’s book so similar to what I experienced while with the Team. My comments are my own based on my experiences in Team and I in NO way am speaking for Pastor Dickie or anyone else.****

  95. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 3, 2012 12:37 pm

    lildufflebagboy- I would love to hear more explanation of that site. Wow. It is pretty obvious that they aren’t in it for the money.

  96. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 1:42 pm

    The house used to be Orrin’s until he sold it to Bill it seems, and bought Brady’s dream home on the lake. Looks like a promotion they ran to see their cars. Lol.

  97. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 3, 2012 5:46 pm

    Is that the “Spanish Mansion”? Are sites like this common place. In my time I never saw one. The blatant materialism just smacks you in the face.

  98. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 3, 2012 6:19 pm


  99. Raquel Peters permalink
    November 4, 2012 5:12 am

    Yes it is the Spanish mansion. I never saw a site like that when I was in either. Cheesy if you ask me.

  100. littledufflebagboy permalink
    November 4, 2012 7:41 am

    @Freedomhaha yea i dont know much about that site. i saw it being posted around on Facebook.

  101. Finally permalink
    November 5, 2012 4:14 am

    The materialism, the hypocrisy, the lies….It is all they can do. They say the truth will set you free……..These people are in so deep they lost their moral compass. The wives stay quiet so they get the lavish lifestyle even if it costs them relationships with their own family…….even their own kids. From what I understand some of the PC kids are so messed up it is sickening. I mean I thought the all mighty Orrin “F bomb” Woodward had it all figured out with his system and his direct hot line to God. It wouldn’t seem so when you see what is happening in their own four walls. They have misled Myself, my friends and thousands of others with lies and deception yet they stand on stage with a holier than thou attitude and claim that the peeps on this site are losers, quitters and thumbsucking pinheads. LOL…….Really, they believe that. I feel for the team…….everyone has to pay the piper at some point. And although I am not a biblical scholar I still haven’t read the part in the bible where God says he is going to give the leaders on team a pass on the way they acted in the team business………..

    On another note, I came across a tweet from Marc I cant build team on my own so I accept charity Millitello. His tweet said ” don’t take counsel from naysayers, they have already given up” What exactly is a naysayer Marc???? Is it someone who had a contrary opinion than the one you have been given by Orrin? I mean Hitler probably thought those that opposed him naysayers. It is really sad that a person that has given up on his dream of being a teacher and a coach to young men and women can attempt to call out others that he claims have given up. I know the rhetoric, Marc hasn’t given that up he just does it from a team stage now………Stick a fork in my eye!!!!! it would hurt less than that BS!!!! The guy is a quitter, a welfare recipient of teams to make it look like he has excelled where he hasn’t. Some thing are good to quit marc!!! I know drug addicts, sex addicts, gambling addicts and a host of others that have quit the things in their life that cause damage. Tim Marks can not handle a drink, so he quit. Their are many many people in the world that can handle a drink without going to excess……….Do we look at a guy like Tim and accuse and make fun of him? No way, we respect the fact that he can’t handle it and that he can stay away from something that he realized was damaging his life…………How in the world is that any different than the people on here that saw first hand the damage that team has done to them and others and decided to quit and speak out against it??? More twisted lies to preserve the lie that team is………….

  102. Mike Bickel permalink
    February 3, 2013 4:24 pm

    Raquel Peters – this is Mike Bickel. Can you find me on FACEBOOK at and friend me. – Mike

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