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Reader Review of Team 382 – “The Future Of Internet Business”

November 5, 2012

Former TEAM/LIFE member, Alex Giftos, provides the following CD review of Team 382 – “The Future Of Internet Business” by Orrin Woodward. This CD was included in the 2008 edition of the Leading A Consumer Rebellion Pack. It’s a fascinating look at the history of Orrin Woodward and TEAM at the time of their expulsion from Amway, their flirtation with creating “the Walmart of the Internet,” and their eventual (short-term) marriage with Dallin Larsen and MonaVie.

Here’s Alex…

The purpose of this review is merely to examine what Orrin Woodward says vs. what actually happened after the talk was given. I will also give my opinion.

The talk was given at a Men’s Leadership event in Saginaw, MI in June of 2007. I was not present for the live talk, but I received constant texts and phones calls during and immediately following the meeting from both my upline and my downline. I purchased the CD when it came out in the pack at the Major in February, 2008.

I have spent the past 6 years as an active member in Team in a part of the organization known as the Tribe (formerly the Freedom Train during Amway). I joined them when the Team was part of Amway / Quixtar, I was with them in Monavie, and I was a member of LIFE as well.

About six months ago, I made a decision stop being active in the LIFE business. I did not renew my position in LIFE in October 2012. Many of those reasons are found in my opinions in this review, as well as the pages of the Amthrax Blog.

I have put the track numbers and times before the quotes. I have tried to pull the important quotes, while trying to make the quotes flow as if the talk is actually being delivered as you read it. They are word for word what Orrin says and pulled in the order in which he says them. There have been absolutely no additions to his words.

Track 01 1:00
“If you’ve ever been part of a winning team & you develop a camaraderie with the men on that team. You know other people have other people’s backs. It’s one Team, one dream on our way to a million people”

Track 01 1:25
“And I want to give you guys a little perspective of where we’re going.”

Track 01 1:46
“We’re all familiar with how we start the plan. We talk about franchising principles and distribution principles and internet, but I want to go through that to help you understand. This isn’t a small deal what we’re doing.”

Track 01 2:25
“Understand that we’re never going to be perfect, but we should hold ideals; things like honor, things like loyalty, things like leadership, integrity, character, things that you don’t hear too much.”

Track 01 3:08
“What I love about this team is they don’t ask about their rights. They ask about their responsibilities first. If you take care of your responsibilities, you’ll get plenty of rights. You’ll have the right to wake up naturally in the morning. You’ll never have to worry about another bill again. You’ll have the right to not even understand what a mortgage is anymore….just basic little rights that come, because you accepted your responsibilities first.”

Track 01 5:10
“We made a commitment to go to a million people, and I’m part of that team. And I’m going to do my part. Are you going to do yours? (applause from the crowd) Alright, we’re going to do it.”

Track 01 5:18
“Michael Dell can make a good computer, and people will buy it. But the first day he doesn’t sell it at the right price, that community will go elsewhere. It’s not loyal like this team is loyal. My responsibility is to see that we get the right price. My responsibility is to make sure we go in there…..cause I have a vision. If we can build a community of people, we can handle the internet. We are going to take the internet by storm, and we haven’t even started yet.”

Track 01 6:03
“But then if we can marry this kind of internet, this kind of community….what if we married to this Walmart pricing strategy? Just think about it. See, Walton’s genius was that he understood that lower prices leads to higher volume which leads to lower prices which leads to higher volume. It’s what you call a virtuous cycle.”

Track 01 6:28
“I mean, we’re in a business where we’re eating and drinking…(Quixtar product mention, which was edited out when the CD was released). What if you had a leadership team that every couple months was looking at that price and said, ‘Oh, time to lower it?’ You have to imagine it.”

Track 02 00:20
“See, Walton when he was in that first store, KMart would have laughed at him. And the Butler Brothers did laugh at him. The Butler Brothers owned Ben Franklin. Walton was their biggest franchiser, and he comes into the the Butler Brothers and says, ‘I have a better idea. You guys drop your margins and give us prices at competitive to KMart, and we could actually build the business and pass KMart.'”

Track 02 00:52
“Now the Butler Brothers were billionaires….‘Hey, we’re billionaires doing it our own way, We don’t need your plan. That sounds risky.’ Interesting thing–when you make a lot of money, sometimes people get so conservative that they lose out.”

Track 02 1:10
“Anybody notice that General Motors isn’t doing so well in this area anymore? The got real conservative on their designs. They stopped thinking outside of the box. I’m telling ya, every business I’ve ever seen starts entrepreneurially and dies bureaucratically. You follow me? Because a bunch of bureaucrats sit around and push paper and talk about the good old days.”

Track 02 1:35
“That’s not my style. My style is if it ain’t broke, let’s break it together. Follow me?”

Track 02 1:48
“Michael Dell reinvented his industry because he went direct to the consumer, cutting out the middle man and passing the savings on to the consumer. Sam Walton passed his industry by getting high volume and going through his stores….$120 million to start every store. But imagine if we marry those two ideas together and say, ‘Hey, let’s go direct to the consumer through the internet, but use the principles of Sam Walton, and all of a sudden we got something better then anyone’s ever done.”

Track 02 2:13
“But that’s not all, cause let’s go to the third one. Let’s go to the principles of franchising and let’s put franchising through this whole business.”

Track 02 3:20
“When we marry franchising, the duplicatable principles, to the principles of distribution, we put all that stuff together with the internet, and we’re going to create an industry that has never existed.”

Track 02 3:34
“The Team will go down in history as an organization of people that started in just a little few towns and we got together and we started a whispering campaign. What if a group of guys could get together with their wives and we put together a Team? And we start to think a bigger dream than ever has been thought in this industry?”

Track 02 3:57
“See, because when Sam Walton started, he started catching up to KMart. By the time KMart figured out that Sam Walton was catching up, it was too late. Cause by the time they looked back, Sam Walton blew them by.”

Track 02 4:11
“Now think about this. Walmart is dominating right now aren’t they? You look at what they’re doing, and they’re so focused. But think about this. Every time they have to expand, there’s another $120 million that goes out the door.”

Track 02 4:35
“Do you understand what happens when we start to take volume discounting and we say, ‘let’s go head to head?’ Guy’s the future is owned by the consumer. The consumer is king. Whoever satisfies the consumer wins.”

Track 02 5:06
“When we build a community of people, and we start to give World class prices right to their door without the $120 million per store infrastructure. I mean, we’ll be small at first. Then all of a sudden, we’ll start to grow. I’m not telling you something that’s going to happen tomorrow. I’m just telling you something that’s going to happen. Follow me?”

Track 02 5:35
“When we do this…by the time people figure out what we’re doing, it will be too late. Run ‘em by.”

Track 02 5:57
“Imagine a business where at retail price, it’s in line with Walmart…at retail. Then you get a 15-20% discount off of that. Now how many people would love to show the plan?
“Ya see, we’ll change the name of the plan, and we’ll call it an IQ test. We’ll give the IQ test, and they can pass or fail. And failing is not that they say, ‘no,’ because they can at least get Walmart prices delivered right to their door.”

“But think about this. Now he’s in a business where he gets products sent to his house below the cost that he could ever pay in any store anywhere, and he has the right to make it a business to where he starts to build. And all of a sudden, he’s getting discounts because we’re increasing the volume at such a rapid rate that the bonuses getting paid back to him start to go up, and he finds himself making a couple thousand or more dollars a month flowing into his household.”

Track 03 00:12
“Then you say, if we can do all that, why don’t we lower the price of the training system. I see in the future maybe a $3 CD, or maybe even better, just downloads from a website you can access. Cause we understand the value of information that changes people’s lives, right?”

Track 03 00:50
“What I see is a business to where we are going to have a hard time having facilities. There will come a day….just remember I said it here, cause it’s coming…where the biggest, toughest job on the whole Team will be the poor Kyle’s and Gary’s that handle booking all these facilities. Cause they’re gonna be like, ‘well we had 5,000 last month at this town of 8,000. So we’ve increased the capacity to 10,000. But we’re afraid we’re not going to have enough. Cause we know their gonna leak out our secret.’ Cause who wouldn’t?’

Track 03 1:50
“Why can’t we marry a good deal with a business opportunity with the greatest training system in the World, our leadership development team? Why can’t we do that?”

Begin Review…

First, I’d like to start off with how Orrin prefaces this talk. He was supposed to be headed to Canada to give a talk. He got to the Airport and realized that he had forgotten his passport. He tried to get it sent to him, but it just wasn’t going to happen. He says that there must have been a reason. He knew of a group of guys that were getting together, so he headed to Men’s Leadership. He sets this talk up as an off the cuff, impromptu talk.

As Orrin opens his talk, he doesn’t get very far before he mentions the goal….one million people. The first monthly seminar I ever attended was at the Dow Arena in Saginaw before I joined. Orrin was the speaker. I heard him mention it there. People with more history than I, can tell you when the goal was first uttered, but it’s safe to say, it has been the goal ever since I joined. Specifically, the goal is one million people with “butts in seats at monthly seminars.” This would also include people viewing on Teamcast.

The only thing I can say is that 1 1/2 years ago, I walked across a Team stage as a Team 100. This means that there were 100 people attending monthly seminars in one team. When I last checked my business before my LIFE renewal, I was not even Team 45. This means that I have dropped by more than half in the past 1 1/2 years.

Orrin then starts the ‘meat’ of his talk by telling his leaders, “I want to tell you where we’re going.” It would seem to me from what Orrin says, he is about to cast a vision to his room of leaders. Remember, this is Men’s Leadership. ALL of his key downline leaders are present. This is where visions are cast. He is about to tell us what we’re doing next.

Before he lays out his vision, he edifies the Team. Orrin is a master of getting group buy-in, because he is the perfect edifier. He edifies his leaders ability to ask about their responsibilities and put their rights second. Then he breathes loyalty into the group by telling them how loyal they are…how he appreciates we all have those qualities.

Orrin is very well read. It is a technique of interrogators to tell the suspect how honest they have heard he is. They say something like, “What I keep hearing about you from people I talk with is that you are one of the most honest men they’ve ever met.” Surprisingly, what comes out of the suspect’s mouth is truth. Psychologically, this is a proven technique of manipulation.

5:10, Orrin’s right back at the million people goal, saying that he will do his part and asking others if they will do theirs. This is more Team buy-in, with the added piece that Orrin’s part of the group…..we’re all in this together. He not only has a buy-in from the group to his goal, but this establishes HIM as the leader OF the group. Nicely done.

Orrin mentions Michael Dell. We never got far from Dell in our business plan. Dell was used to explain how he took a business idea and turned it into an online empire. Dell was smart, but he lacked the one thing that makes online sales difficult. He lacked the loyal community of buyers. You see the word ‘loyal’ pop up a lot. Loyalty in Orrin’s business is a common theme. Loyalty is the glue that holds this all together.

Orrin mentions Sam Walton. Walmart’s pricing strategy, what Orrin refers to as a virtuous cycle, is the key to distribution. Lower prices leads to higher volume, which leads to lower prices, which leads to higher volume, and it keeps on growing like that. I think we can debunk that right here. The Virtuous Cycle does not exist. I have spent the last 30 years in retail. There are things that are fixed costs at every step of the process that can not be overlooked. The cost of manufacturing, the cost of insurance, the cost of wages, the cost of delivery….all fixed costs that actually go up with inflation. Even if your volume quadruples, those fixed costs are going to go up. And when the employees increase production, they all ask for raises which increases your costs again (That may be the only Virtuous Cycle). Can we at least agree that those costs can only go so low, and that once profit drops below those costs, you go out of business? At some point, the Virtuous Cycle has to stop. So seriously, is it really virtuous?

At 6:28, there is an edit. When this talk was given, the Team was part of the Amway/Quixtar business. Amway has requirements in their contracts regarding the use of business support materials (BSM), and their corporate people always sat in on our meetings. There is no doubt they were in the room that night. For one, the talks must contain Amway product mention and/or a mention of the Amway/Quixtar opportunity. Here is where the Team edited out the Amway product mention when the CD was released in the pack. The CD was released after Orrin and the Team were “dismissed” by Amway.

In Track 2, Orrin talks about the Butler Brothers. It is not uncommon to talk about these two brothers. They were the billionaire owners of Ben Franklin. Sam Walton of Walmart fame was their largest franchiser. Walton wanted the Butler Brothers to adopt his business model, the Virtuous Cycle. Being rich conservative billionaires, they felt this was risky. I’ve often chuckled at how the Butler Brothers / Sam Walton story fit perfectly into the Team business plan, while being exactly what was happening in Amway at the time. Orrin (Sam Walton) approaching the Butler Brothers (DeVos and VanAndel) about adopting his like-minded Virtuous Cycle idea. I especially like his wording, “We could actually build the business.” Orrin’s complaint in court was that the product pricing was keeping us from building the business. I’m not trying to imply that Orrin used this Sam Walton story as a metaphor to make himself a Sam Walton-like pioneer in the eyes of his followers, but I’ve always found the use of the story intriguing from all angles.

The next statement that Orrin made got sent to me while he was speaking. He mentions marrying the distribution principles with the internet principles with the franchising principles and says, “The Team will go down in history as an organization…..” Looking back at it…I never considered it then…this is confusing. How does the Team go down in history as an organization that would change the World? Team is part of Amway. Why didn’t he say that Amway would go down in history? I’m sure the Amway representatives in the room wondered the same thing. It was reported in the unofficial Amway Blog that they terminated Orrin for misrepresenting the business opportunity. This talk was given less than two months before his termination, and they mention in the blog that they had warned him many times. It has been mentioned here by numerous people who attended the Go Diamond weekend in April 2007 that Orrin received a warning from Amway concerning eliminating his ability to produce BSMs. This would eliminate the Team training system.

Whether or not that conversation took place at the Go Diamond two months before this talk is really only circumstantial. The point is that at the time of this talk, Orrin is walking a thin line with Amway. They have been butting heads on price for a while. Everyone in that room knows all of this, yet Orrin delivers this “knock out” talk. Why would he deliver this talk to all of his upline leaders publicly with Amway in the room?

Then he gets specific about the new business opportunity. A member would be able to buy their products and services at Walmart prices, have them delivered to their door and receive a 15-20% discount off of that. We would go down in history as The Team who build The Walmart Of The Internet.

Every one of my upline or downline who was present at that meeting believed without any reservations that Amway was about to do something huge. Remember, “the Team will go down in history” line went in one ear and out the other. No one caught it. I can not speak for any of the Round Table or Policy Council members who were present, but at the “worker bee” level, no one thought that Orrin was about to get terminated or do “a different business.” This was an Amway move that was about to happen.

Now if I’m an Amway representative in the room, and maybe I was recording this to take back to Amway…maybe not….what would I think? Amway themselves reported that they never wanted to be Walmart. If you’re Amway, what would you possibly think that Orrin is talking about? And if Amway had no intentions to do this, really what is Orrin talking about?

When Orrin got terminated, other Amway leaders got terminated. They all sat together on the Independent Business Owners board. They were all aware of the pricing discussions. They were part of that movement. In regards to those other leaders in Amway who were terminated with the Team…what did they think when they heard this talk? They are all huge leaders in Amway. They have been part of these meetings regarding pricing. They know Orrin’s stance on this. What do they think is going to happen when they hear Orrin saying this….they themselves knowing that Amway is in the room?

Orrin then attacks the burning issue that all Amway business builders had…the price of the BSMs. They (before mentioned other Amway leaders) all felt that the price of the tools needed to come down. One of their main gripes was that the training system costs were eating so much of the distributor’s money, he had less to use to build the business. They contended that the business tools were high, so the people at the top could make the lion’s share of the profit. This and product pricing were their two main concerns. Orrin his a very good chord with them when he mentioned the lowering of the training system costs.

This lowering of cost to $3 never happened. The free download of the training system never happened. CD cost was $5. For a time, it went to $6, but then dropped back down to $5. When these other leaders left Team and went their separate ways, Randy Haugen cited the high training system costs as a reason.

Orrin ends his 30 minute talk with one of the best stories from history I’ve ever heard him tell. He tells the story of Spartacus, and it is so well done, I suggest you all get a copy and listen. Maybe some day, someone will put in up on the internet. He gets a standing ovation like none I’ve ever heard him receive. I’m sure the Amway reps were in horror.

I want to go back to how Orrin sets up this talk….an impromptu talk given after forgetting his passport and showing up at Men’s Leadership. Orrin forgot his passport? Really? He’s a systems engineer with four patents to his name and a melancholy’s melancholy. All areas of this talk are devilishly laid out. I don’t believe for a minute that this talk was given under these circumstances. I believe that this was planned. This was a call to rally the troops. I believe he was begging to be terminated or was planning on leaving.

Amway reports this in their blog I cited earlier.

“So in the end, yesterday, we tried to give him one last chance to reform. He didn’t even want to hear his options. So we terminated him. And in return, he handed us a trumped-up, trash-talking lawsuit on his way out the door. In response, we have a temporary restraining order issued by a court that prevents him from looting the business as he seeks to take his act to a new company.”

I’m sorry, did they say he handed them a “trash talking lawsuit” on the way out. Did he have one already prepared?

Orrin later said publicly from a Team stage that, “he didn’t say the Walmart Of The Internet was going to happen tomorrow, but it is going to happen.” However, since the start of the LIFE business, they have denied the fact that they ever wanted to build it….Brady joking, “I never wanted to sell lawn chairs and tube socks. I always wanted to make a difference. That’s what LIFE does.”

As I listened to this CD again, I was dumbfounded by the ironic humor of the Track 01 3:08 quote. In light of the bankruptcies and foreclosures that occurred in 2009-2011 in the timeline on the Amthrax Blog, I’d say, “you’ll have the right to never understand what a mortgage is anymore,” may be the only part of this talk they actually nailed.

I have a couple final questions as I wrap this up….one answered and one unanswered…one I’d like to ask Orrin directly.

The first one Orrin actually asks himself when he says, “Why can’t we marry a good deal with a business opportunity with the greatest training system in the World, our leadership development team? Why can’t we do that?”

The obvious answer is, “Because Orrin! This is June 2007 and for the next couple months, you are still a member of Amway / Quixtar, they had no intention of doing this, and you knew it!”

And if that’s the case, it begs the my next question to you. Then, why did you really give this talk?

15 Comments leave one →
  1. JPE permalink
    November 5, 2012 6:18 am

    I’ve heard the same Dell and Walmart story when my upline recruited people for the Quixtar business for 6 years. He’s no longer based in the Sacramento, CA area. He moved. I’m glad I quit when our organization moved to TEAM. Guess which team we were in? I love to watch basketball on the Gym Floor… Anyone familiar with a Sacramento, CA loves the Gym Floor.

  2. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 5, 2012 7:28 am

    I wasn’t going to do this, but many of you know this already. I am the author of this review. I will continue to use the same Rascal Teamster handle as a contributor here, but I will never give “them” the ability to say I hide behind a mask. I started posting under that name and will continue to, but will never deny who I am.

    I bought this pack at the Winter Leadership convention. It was recommended to me by Mark Paul. We were all awaiting this since Orrin gave the talk. Oddly, there was no mention of the pack whatsoever in the Major. This was explained as “they really couldn’t, because of existing lawsuits.” Made sense to me.

    The month before, there was a Turbo 25 meeting at Tim Mark’s house in Florida for leaders in the Paul teams. He drew out much of what’s in the Consumer Rebellion book. He even explained the comp plan and pay….same stuff Orrin used in the CD.

    A question I have is if this took place a month before the convention, and Orrin had already announced Monavie before the convention, when did they realize this pack everyone bought was worthless & never going to be used? Was it just a profit sharing grab? Did the roundtables know of this, or were they duped by the PC?

    This is the reason I stayed in for 5 more years, spent thousands of dollars to the point of pain, almost trashed my marriage, hurt my relationships with my kids and best friends, and almost paid the ultimate price when I couldn’t handle the pain of being a loser anymore. Can”t believe they had me that deep. But mine is not a sad story. As Orrin said in his talk, “we haven’t even gotten started yet.”

    Here’s a good question. At what point did they know this message I got from my upline was a lie? This is too good. You can’t make this stuff up any better than this.

    From my personal journal on 20 Feb, 08:
    “It’s been really crazy since Orrin got free. Q slapped us with 30-some lawsuits & we’ve formed some kind of weird partnership with Monavie that none of us quite understand. Apparently the founders are former Q people. They are apparently going to “shield” us from Q while we establish our line of sponsorship. Apparently we are going to slide in the front door and out the back door. By establishing our LOS with Monavie, Q can’t claim we stole their LOS. It’s genius!”

  3. JOBOutsider permalink
    November 5, 2012 7:37 am

    I keep hearing about this ‘Walmart of the internet.’ Can someone explain since I am not and have never been a part of their organization? They don’t sell anything other than leadership materials correct? Is the endgame to get involved with a company that sells consumer goods over the internet for discount prices? Kind of like what people do on ebay?

  4. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 5, 2012 12:28 pm

    @Rascal Teamster, great review! Honestly, you summarize everything there is to say about the entire farce of a business in one simple, easy to understand article. Avarice has always been the driving force behind any decision made or path pursued. No one needs to look beyond your article for further explanation or education. Thank you.

  5. November 5, 2012 2:14 pm

    There’ll never be a walmart of the Internet, it doesn’t make sense really. No business will have 100% loyality in its customers. Customers come and go – online and offline. I really should’ve caught that and pointed it out to my ex-sponsor but didn’t cuz I wanted to be openminded and I was really desperate to get my family off welfare. Hmmphf.

    JOBoutsider – it’s just leadership MLM foolishness – a scam just waiting to be caught. You’re subject to all this hyped-up emotional highs, then you keep on trucking on hoping to catch that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. DON’T consider going in.

    Rascal Teamster, I had all that in my Monavie/TEAM days. It was so nauseating that I only skimmed through the article, but it’s a good eye-opener for those who have a strong stomach. I’m still hurting after the stupid debt I’ve incurred. Ouch, just lots of bad memories, and how I let down my family, it really hits a raw nerve for me, I suppose. I hope someone reads your synopsis and realise just what a mess they’re getting themselves into. I really do. Kudos, mate.

  6. freedomhaha permalink
    November 5, 2012 3:34 pm

    Thank you so much for this review. All I remember about “Walmart of the Internet” was it being used as a joke on several CD’s when I was in. Just more proof of the lying nature of TEAM cult. It will be interesting to see the response on a PC blog to spin this story now that it is on here.

  7. Finally permalink
    November 5, 2012 5:58 pm

    I was sitting front row at that men’s leadership….. They had another company, our up line bragged about the tasting they had with RT members and others. They lied through the whole process. They lied and knew it and covered it up and they after all was said and done they denied ever having anything like that. They lied to protect their incomes, they lied they lied they lied and justified all the while saying they were doing it for the team….REALLY????? The TEam ??? When we were told about MV they stole whole lines of sponsorship and moved people from where they originally were and claimed they could do it because they were their “teams” So we were friggin slaves, they were the owners and could do with us what they wanted because they owned us………The exact thing they say Q did and they fought them on principle……. P U K E!!!! The only reason they left Q is because Orrin got a call from the team office at go diamond in 06 informing them that Q had called and said the tool business was going to change for the team and Orrin F Bomb Woodward wasn’t going to be able to take advantage of all that tool money any longer…….That is it, nothing else no other reason. Every thing else they ever said about leaving was a lie. And this was before they knew that Q was going back to the Amway name. Orrin found through this process that they needed a buying block of 1 million consumers before they could get products at a low enough cost to make it a profitable business model. They sold it because they needed people to hang on till they got a product. That was MV. Orrin told the PC that MV was a temporary landing pad……that is not what he told the team.

    Those who played ball got teams those who didn’t got screwed, like Melanie and Raquel
    Look at what they did for Dan WELFARE Hawkins because he went to the WI attorney general on behalf of the team. He went with Tim Marks from what i understand. Marc “CHARITY” MIlitello got teams because Orrin needed someone in that part of the team to move on and take over after some other leaders left. Marc responded well to orrin pulling his strings and being a good yes boy…….I say boy because men do not accept charity the way marc did and go on stage and take credit for something they didn’t do. That of course is my opinion. The CD is a farse and a lie. It was done to keep everyone on system till they figured out what they could do as far as a product.

  8. freedomhaha permalink
    November 5, 2012 6:34 pm

    I wish Team would have never left Amway because I never would have joined Amway in a million years. When I kept asking though during the MV days they would trip over themselves telling me how much different they were than Amway. Lies lies lies.

  9. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 5, 2012 7:23 pm


    When would you say that the “cat was out of the bag” and all Round Table members would have known the Walmart idea was done….not gonna happen?

    When in relation to the release if that pack at the major? Is it safe to say once Orrin announced MV, Walmart was a dead deal?

  10. No Team For Me permalink
    November 6, 2012 2:23 am

    I recall Orrin making the same statement about MV being a ‘temporary landing pad’ – My opinion was he was just using MV as a safe haven to help him through all the lawsuits from Amway/Quixtar because he knew he didn’t have the kind of money he needed to survive all the lawsuits. But he never really talked about how excited he was about the company or the juice. His emphasis was on building TEAM.

    And our group also had leaders who were stolen and re-arranged under Milletillo.

  11. November 6, 2012 6:19 am

    If I remember correctly, when Orrin announced the results of his fake benchmarking research, his exact comment was that we were joining MV so that our warriors, who had been without compensation for 6 months, could “live to fight another day”. I took that to mean that MV was meant to tide us over until the WalMart of the Internet could be arranged. Of course, that’s exactly what they wanted us to believe. It makes me SICK to realize that they had no intentions of following through with that plan and exploited thousands of us in the process so they could continue to live the high life at our expense. What a total bunch of Posers!

  12. switch permalink
    November 6, 2012 6:44 am

    team/LIEf – up against the ropes, waiting for the UPPERCUT!

  13. November 6, 2012 8:51 am

    @No Team For Me – Orrin wrote many effusive posts about his love for Dallin Larsen and MonaVie.

  14. Finally permalink
    November 6, 2012 1:33 pm

    Raquel, it might have been 07, I could have it confused.
    Noteamforme, Walmart of the internet became a dead deal when the lawsuit lasted more than a couple of weeks. It was a competing business model with Q and they knew it. Their game plan was to win the lawsuit quickly, be released form their Q contract and immediately launch the other site. The main focus would have been on drinks and bars just like DOT1 Step was. Again without a million person buying block the other model doesn’t work. They would have had partner stores but the pricing of the products would have been the same as for regular consumers, possible a small discount or rebate on volume in a team.

    They were banking on the drinks and bars cuz they were highly consumable on a weekly basis which game them the repeat business. There also was a huge profit margin on the drinks and bars from what I understand. On a side note, does anyone realize how dangerous the energy drinks became????? I would like to know if anyone on here had teammates that got kidney stones during that period. People were slamming so many drinks they were dehydrating themselves. I know of at least 5 team peeps that got kidney stones……….One guy was hospitilized and even came close to checking out from what I understand. Great promotion guy’s!!!!

    The only reason for MV was that they needed a product that did not compete with the Q model. People would have left in masses if they did not offer something other than leadership. Orrin knew MV was temporary from day one. He sold it to the masses as a partnership in health and leadership knowing that was a lie…………

  15. freedomhaha permalink
    November 7, 2012 4:51 am

    Finally- Thanks for the insight. That raised a few points that I had not thought of before.

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