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When a TEAM/LIFE Policy Council Member Says, “Google Bomb!” TEAM/LIFE Members Respond, “Which site???”

November 29, 2012

Here’s a copy of an email that Bill Lewis, a TEAM/LIFE Policy Council Member, sent out to several downline and crossline Round Table members on November 21, 2012 at 10:26 am. This message was subsequently forwarded downline to other members within TEAM:

From: William Lewis [redacted]
To: [redacted]
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 10:26 AM
Subject: need your help – online

Ok gang we need your help. The online battle is very important for us to win because all of us have people that are going to google us and we want them to find out the positive things about TEAM. We need you guys to get everyone you can to go to these 2 links and write a comment. We know that this works because we did it with one of my articles and it is now in the top 10.
Orrin has agreed to do a conf call for everyone that post a comment once these reach the top 10

please pass this email out to everyone you can!!!


Let’s take a closer look at the three posts that Bill included in his email:

With the first blog post, people must not even know about this clone blog of Orrin’s, since there was only one comment prior to November 21. Just 9 additional comments were made immediately following Lewis’ email.

Comments on Chris Brady’s blog post from November 8 totaled a mere 6 before November 21. Since the email went out, the page has (to-date) garnered an additional 168 comments.

Not counting replies, there were roughly 93 comments posted on Orrin Woodward’s article from November 5 to November 15. From November 21 to today, an additional 170 comments have been made.

Bill Lewis sent the email to over 30 people, and two-thirds of them dutifully followed their upline’s order and posted comments on or shortly after November 21. As for the remaining third, I could not find any trace of them commenting on the three blog posts.

I like this quote from Isaiah Joslin near the end of Orrin’s post:

If your reading this, Thank You for taking your time in doing you due-diligence in research. Nothing has helped me more in life than the people in this business and the products. It has given me a challenge to be a better person overall in all areas of my life. What on earth can you possibly criticize about that?

If one was to only read TEAM/LIFE blogs — the number of which, by the way, far outnumber the critical sites about TEAM/LIFE — you would think TEAM/LIFE is the solution to all of the world’s problems. Well, I’m sorry to break it to you, Isaiah, but there’s another side to the story that deserves to be heard. You’ll hear good and bad on this site, unlike on any TEAM/LIFE blog where dissension and critical comments are taboo.

Google Bombing Redux Take Three?

This email from Bill Lewis is nothing new, in fact. There’s a well-established pattern with Orrin Woodward and TEAM when it comes down to online reputation management. You see, back in the Quixtar days, Orrin was one of the primary people involved in a Google Bombing project to bury the search rankings of websites critical to Amway/Quixtar.

Years later, after Orrin got himself kicked out of Amway/Quixtar, he instituted a similar program, except this one was designed to denigrate and accuse his “former supplier” of being a pyramid scheme. He went from, “Quixtar is the best business opportunity in the world!” to “Quixtar is an illegal pyramid scheme!” almost faster than he changes the cover on his CD tools.

Now, with the TEAM/LIFE business in full swing, he’s doing it again. This is at least the second conference call that Orrin has organized for his flock following a plea to leave comments on various TEAM/LIFE blogs. Another one was held back in May 19, 2012, shortly after people were encouraged to leave comments on the following Policy Council member Tim Marks blog post about the Mental Fitness Challenge. Most of Tim’s posts have received anywhere from a handful to several dozen comments, but this one got 381 comments, the majority of them coming on or after May 16. Hmmm… do you think an email was sent out on the morning of May 16 encouraging people to comment on this blog post?

In addition to the comments, a number of TEAM members posted their own blog entries pointing to these articles. Do a search on Google for “LIFE Business: First Year Results,” and you’ll see classic Google Bombing in action. Do these posts add anything to the discussion? Not really, as they are simply cases of link regurgitation or in some cases, complete copy and paste jobs of the original posts. Nary an original thought in the mix.

Could there be other examples of TEAM using Google Bombing tactics to pump up their search engine rankings? How about this Marks’ post puffing Orrin up as some kind of whistleblower on June 2, 2012? There have been 231 comments on this post, with about 70 coming in before a mid-June explosion of an additional 160+ comments.

On the May 19 conference call, Orrin spoke about having a call to arms to combat the media war. Their strategy? Flood the web with clone blogs and saccharine comments about how great the TEAM/LIFE business is. In the meantime, there’s little transparency, barely any disclosure, and virtually zero discussion of legitimate criticism raised by former TEAM/LIFE members on any blog run by a TEAM/LIFE member. You don’t combat the media war by brushing history under the table by saying, “Well, that was the past. This new business of ours is better than ever before! On to a million!”

To those TEAM/LIFE members who were “encouraged” to comment on the blogs. You do see that you’re basically functioning as a human social spam robot for your upline Round Table and Policy Council members, don’t you? Educate yourself with both sides of the story and be the leaders they are purportedly teaching you to be by standing up and asking legitimate questions regarding the history of TEAM/LIFE.

79 Comments leave one →
  1. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 29, 2012 7:43 am

    Wow, my iPhone chirps on the way to work, I open it up, and it’s Christmas in Nov. Nice topic, Amthrax. This is the reason I finally got out. Sorry this is so long, but it was the thought process that got me FREE!

    I was not aware of the email from Bill Lewis, but I am fully aware of the conference call on May 19. My calendar says it took place at 10pm. It was hosted by Tim Marks with Orrin Woodward as the guest. The email came down from Mark Paul to me, and it originated from Tim Marks.

    Originally there was a requirement for the call…post to the Tim Marks’ blog (the one you mentioned with 381 comments). My name is on that list of comments, and I was on that May 19 conference call. The day of (I’m not kidding) the conference call, they dropped the post requirements. I was torqued…”How wishy washy, lowering the bar, not following the system, wussy, can you get?” I didn’t know then what I learned later. They got what they wanted…people to post and people to be on the call. They needed everyone to blog now (hence the requirement), and those who didn’t, to hear why they should have (hence the dropping of the requirement). Let me explain…..

    I have some tech knowledge. For my business, I have built multiple websites, posted articles and videos all trying to increase page rank and dominate the search engines by linking everything together. I knew why they wanted us to post to the blogs… link all those sites and blogs to the LIFE site to increase the page rank of LIFE. Made total sense to me. So it didn’t shock me when the whole talk by Orrin was based on the need to post to the blogs and be active at it to help LIFE.

    BUT….at one point, he said, “Come on guys. I mean, we need to fight the media war.”

    OOOOOOOPS……my choleric melancholy brain said…..”WTH???”

    In order to have a war, would it not make sense that you have to have an enemy? If the Media War, is fighting the degradation of societal values, the break down of the family, political and economic stupidity, does it make sense what Orrin said? To what enemy was he referring? Google? The war against the search engines? That makes no sense at all. I may not be smarter than Orrin, but at that point, I was just as smart. So………I did a search for LIFE and found this site.

    Now the enemy made sense? It’s all of you here? He was trying to silence you……and now me. Orrin has always said since my first Orrin seminar in 2006, “Don’t answer your critics with words. Answer them with your results?”

    It caused me to ask myself a serious question. “Maybe it’s not just me and my team’s piss poor results. Maybe it’s the whole Team. If Orrin has resorted to answering and battling his critics online (and honestly guys, he created all those critics….Melanie, Raquel, Former Round Table, the others……me…..he made us all), what does that say about the Team’s results?”

    I was DONE!

  2. freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 9:03 am

    Rascal- Thanks for sharing your process of getting out! It is just sick what they are doing to try and keep a sinking ship propped up. The information that is available here will bleed the TEAM LIEf business slowly, or at least keep them treading water. I was in until I found this site while searching for Joe D’s blog. I had an answer for everything on here until I found his bankruptcy papers, and the comp plan analysis. You just can’t argue with the math.

    To knowingly scam people under the guise of God’s love is about as low down as you can get.

  3. freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 9:13 am

    Another thing, if the only thing you knew about a site is that it allowed critical comments vs. one that did not allow dissenting opinions which one would you listen too? Also, if one site had HUGE finances at stake with you believing their information while the other one was run for NO money and NO financial reward by people on their own time which would you trust?

  4. freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 9:43 am

    Raquel- They might dumb down members critical thinking, but we are proof that they can’t eliminate it totally!

  5. freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 9:51 am

    Raquel- Rotten to the core is the only way to describe this group of people. It is a lot more fitting “R” word than the one they use, rascal.

  6. Mike collins permalink
    November 29, 2012 10:42 am

    Great post Amthrax! First the timeline and now this??? It keeps getting better and better.

    For those of you just joining us looking for answers: keep asking questions, keep researching Lief, and pretty soon you will have a preponderance of evidence that will tell you exactly who orrin REALLY IS…..

  7. November 29, 2012 11:31 am

    It’s also important to note that in addition to the comments on those three blog posts, numerous TEAM members posted their own blog posts linking to these articles. I’ll update the article to reflect that.

  8. November 29, 2012 2:13 pm


    WordPress does not give us stats on unique users visiting the site. So, calculating how much traffic is composed of the frequent commenters versus current TEAM members and prospects is not possible.

    That said, I can provide you with general figures. The site’s busiest day was back in February, 2012, with nearly 2,300 page views. Lately, the site has been averaging anywhere between 800 and 1,500 page views (weekends push the average down). Weekly, the average is around 7,000 page views and monthly about 30,000 page views. The site is approaching 1,000,000 total page views since its inception; I’ll be sure to write a post about that when I reach that milestone!

  9. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 2:58 pm

    Amthrax- Is it fair to say that we average roughly the same number of views on here in a week as TEAM has current members, or “butts in seats at functions”?

  10. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 29, 2012 3:03 pm

    I don’t know if it’s fair to say, but it’s a frickin’ hoot just thinking about it.

    Thanks for the laugh, Freedom, and your dedicated service to those who need to hear the truth.

  11. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 29, 2012 3:10 pm

    Amthrax, way to go on the almost to 1 million page views.

    And the crowd cheers, “1 million page views. 1 million page views. 1 million page views.” You get a standing ovation, and you go on to create the Walmart Of The Blogosphere where membership is FREE, there is no comp plan, no P&P, and truth is given away freely.

    Congrats on saving the World!!!

  12. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 3:22 pm

    Rascal- Thank you for the laugh, sir. I remember having to turn off that Gazzardo CD where he keeps saying “One Million PEOPLE!!!!” In retrospect I should have just bailed at that point, hard.

  13. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 29, 2012 3:37 pm

    I think you are referring to, “The Grand Opening,” by George Guzzardo. It was taped at the first LIFE major.

    Q should get a hold of that CD or get a copy of that video. Remember George saying how they used to show the plan? “Satellite TV. It’s the wave of the future. Interactive TV. The only thing we drew was a stick figure on the couch looking at a TV. That was the whole plan.”

    I’m sorry did a PC just say that…that was how he showed the Quixtar plan to Joe McGuire, and they drove massive depth that way? Yes he did!

  14. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 29, 2012 4:09 pm

    Rascal- Yes, it was called “The Grand Opening”. I now call it “The Grand Opening Of My Eyes To the Lies Of TEAM”

  15. November 29, 2012 6:20 pm

    Can Ex-TEAM members comment on the Google Bombing done during the Amway/Quixtar days and during the Free the IBO days in 2007-2008? Were emails sent out similar to the one that Bill Lewis sent? Or was it communicated via conference calls or face-to-face meetings?

  16. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 29, 2012 6:24 pm

    Oh wow, “a conference call with Orrin”, what an awesome reward. You mean he is going to grace them with his presence by phone? These sheeple are so damn lucky.

  17. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 29, 2012 6:26 pm

    @ Rascal, by the way, AWESOME POST!

  18. Brent Hansen permalink
    November 29, 2012 6:28 pm

    @freedomhaha, you are so dang logical it makes me want to quit all over again. Great stuff amigo!

  19. November 30, 2012 10:52 am

    Orrin needs to develop new strategies instead of repackaging the old ones which still don’t work.

    He was doing this crap 6 years ago, and he still doesn’t understand that he needs to fix the message, not attempt (unsuccessfully) to drown it out or hide it.

  20. Soon2BOut permalink
    November 30, 2012 1:09 pm

    “That said, I can provide you with general figures. The site’s busiest day was back in February, 2012, with nearly 2,300 page views. Lately, the site has been averaging anywhere between 800 and 1,500 page views (weekends push the average down). Weekly, the average is around 7,000 page views and monthly about 30,000 page views. The site is approaching 1,000,000 total page views since its inception; I’ll be sure to write a post about that when I reach that milestone!”

    You’ll reach that before Orrin Woodward can reach 1 million people. Bawhaha. I am pretty sure they will make a cd on how to create your own blog post. A positive blog post. And make them talk everything lovely about TEAM. Shouldn’t they be spending their time building the business? These ‘leaders’ are a bunch of kids playing on the internet. We all should start commenting on this blog a lot more and that other website that talks about team. Lazy man money or something.

  21. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 30, 2012 2:08 pm

    Rocket- How about the strategy of a business that doesn’t end in inevitable failure for upwards of 97% of your members? I know this is crazy talk.

  22. November 30, 2012 2:24 pm


    You’re being awfully generous in my opinion that 3% of LIFE/TEAM people actually net a profit.

  23. Rascal Teamster permalink
    November 30, 2012 2:36 pm

    @Freedomhaha & Rocket

    I want to play Devil’s advocate with you two, because I’ve heard this answer and surely a Team newbie has.

    “So what if it’s only 3%? As long as you have this vehicle that gets you into that 3%, who cares? Shouldn’t you just drive this vehicle?”

  24. Freedomhaha permalink
    November 30, 2012 6:25 pm

    Rascal- Speaking for myself ethical red flags were thrown up when I saw the numbers. I personally could not profit solely off the backs of others in a pyramid scheme. Teamesters try to tell you that every business operates like this, but that is patently false. In a legitimate business you offer a good or service, and people willingly exchange that for money. They buy your product they don’t think they are going to get rich off it. That is where I draw the line. Sure, maybe YOU can get in the (being generous) 3%, but the plan is not being shown like that. The plan is shown with the thought intentionally planted in your head that we can all win when in fact we could not win. If they ever did go to 1,000,000 people the same amount of people would be losing money as now with 7 to 9 thousand members.

  25. December 1, 2012 7:35 am

    @Rascal in your assumed position (not that one!)

    “So what if it’s only 3%? As long as you have this vehicle that gets you into that 3%, who cares? Shouldn’t you just drive this vehicle?”

    Mhhh… NO! Glad you asked. Simple – it’s indisputable that the 97% is an immutable lot required by, and for the sustenance of the 3%. So your scam is busted!

  26. Rascal Teamster permalink
    December 1, 2012 7:50 am

    Yup. Good point, exambot. Especially in this economy, is it not possible that you will eventually run out of the 97% willing to do this or are financially able? Of course it is. It is mathematically impossible to maintain this over time.

    It’s a lot like what Margaret Thatcher said about socialism. “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out if everyone else’s money.”

  27. December 1, 2012 7:56 am

    Further, you are telling me if I join you I will be a 97% sustaining the 3% with my money from my Jaay Ohhh Bheee? Do I look that dumb? My three over worked brain cells now are telling me if I somehow become a 3%er I also will be sustained by the 97%. My scam antenna just went off that that’s not business, that’s pillaging the invariant 97% mass, you know their jaay ohhh bhee take home pays, some unconventional business, etc. That simply, this is a scam hoisted by the 3% upon the never changing 97%. I am greedy but not without a conscience. You can’t call a scam a business.

    Nah I can’t drive that car it’s scam mobile. Oh it’s the one you are driving, a scam mobile? It should wreck into a total write-off asap before it goes too far as a favor to humanity. It will be for your own good, you will see.

    And BTW you caught your reeking – who cares! – MLM ‘tude from the 3%ers? Listen bud, we do, so keep it to yourself!


    Hey Rascal thanx for indulging me – I am glad you are on here doing what you are doing.

  28. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 1, 2012 7:56 am

    Exambot- Thanks for saying in a sentence what I was searching for in a paragraph.

    Rascal- I also love that line by Margaret Thatcher about socialism. Is it possible that what TEAM is doing is worse than even normal socialism? They take from the poor (97%) and give to the rich (Policy Council). Or course it is worse, and I am no advocate of socialism.

  29. December 1, 2012 7:57 am

    ” It’s a lot like what Margaret Thatcher said about socialism. “The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out if everyone else’s money.” ”


  30. Rascal Teamster permalink
    December 1, 2012 8:10 am

    Yes Freedom. Way worse than socialism. It’s more like communism….or I prefer, Teamunism.

    This one is run, for all intensive purposes, by a dictator. It’s not a level playing field. Socialism intends to own you by making you dependent on them financially….ie…govt programs. Team makes you so emotionall and pyschologically dependent on them, YOU give THEM your money. That sounds a little worse :-0

    The guy at the top, BECAUSE he gets paid the same way you do, AND sets the rules, can change the pay plan (and has) to benefit him or the chosen few. He owns it all, plays God to his favor, and makes promises of Freedom that he can never guarantee. And his business feeds itself off the blood, sweat, and tears of the people who need most.

    I’d say that’s worse, brother!

  31. December 1, 2012 8:10 am


    That is affirmative. No matter what, or how many words are used to paint over this scam into …. colorfulness. No one can dispute it’s the 97%’s cash that is being displayed back to them on stage, read achoo, lifestyle. Else, why can’t the 3% be their own deal without the 97% and we will see how long they continue to display their lifestyle.

  32. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 1, 2012 8:24 am

    Does anyone have a guess as to the number of current Teamunists (my new favorite phrase)? We know that this number is a little lower because of the outstanding work on this blog. On this subject, one thing that started to crack my rose colored glasses was the fact that we always had functions in the same buildings. If this thing was growing like they said it was growing we would need an NFL stadium just for a monthly function. Of course we kept going back to the same arena used by a semi-pro basketball team that was only filled on one side.

  33. Rascal Teamster permalink
    December 1, 2012 8:35 am

    Well, as of midweek, my tap had only put one person in since the major. Yikes! And we had the first of the originals who didn’t renew get flushed. I have no idea what happened yesterday. That’s when the new ones would have been entered.

    Apparently the old Amway rule of losing a third at every renewal held true here too. I guess that’s just the way LIFE goes in networking. (I’m sure another third said, “I was set up for automatic auto renewal when I joined?”) It was only $15. They won’t remove themselves. They’ll just comment here.

    With the recent non-renewals, and the lack of new acticity, the number is lower than it was in October, guaranteed.

  34. freedomhaha permalink
    December 1, 2012 8:49 am

    Rascal- My tap has a net gain of about -3 people since I left last November.

  35. Katie permalink
    December 1, 2012 3:39 pm

    Amthrax, you rock! Rascal, you rock too. I am cracking up reading some of these comments and what stands out to me most (aside from the free and clear thinking) is how much better your grammar and spelling get once you are free of team/life! Can’t wait to see you hit a million Amthrax!

  36. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 2, 2012 12:04 pm

    Kudos Amthrax, Great Job!

    Sorry for this duplicate, I was under the wrong thread, feel free to delete the duplicate.

    Wow-weeeee…If I didn’t know better I would think you were on Bill’s team, Hahaha!
    Betcha, this has caused some anger outburst, and put them on a mission to find out where that came from!! Funny, there are so many people have caught on to them, have quit, have been royally screwed over and simply can’t trust them; it could be anyone! Just the facts.
    Nothing new…Manipulating the search engines…Google Bombing?..Yep,..Masters of disguises and manipulators, they are!.. .I do hope the “followers, realize they are nothing but pawns and begin to Think!

    How much more proof does anyone really need to realize these guys go to any lengths to hide the “negative truth?” Wonder what it will take for the proper authorities to get sick and tired and see the way these guys operate? Will the “followers” begin to think about the blatant differences between their walk and their talk?

    Do they recognize there really is 2 sides to the story, and why are they trying so hard to hide it? That their “integrity” is not quite above board, and they are “following” poor leadership “examples” that are asking them to “manipulate?”

    IMO, if you have to manipulate anything to try and appear “positive”, then common sense should tell you; something is seriously wrong! Same with if someone has to tell you they are “positive”, Christian, Gurus, and all their other puffed up self-proclaimed labels, should raise a red flag. Personally, I believe if you have to tell everyone you are, then you aren’t.


    Excellent posts! Thanks for the confirmation!

  37. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 2, 2012 12:05 pm

    It is shameful the power of their undue influence they have ‘over’ the “followers’, they have “justified” this and called it “war” and in their little world anything mind to ethics, integrity, Christian principle..anything goes and nothing else matters. History certainly repeats itself!

  38. Raisingtenkidz permalink
    December 2, 2012 10:08 pm

    Our Team won one of these posting on blog competitions. It was under Dan Hawkins. Which ever one of his teams hit 100 first got a call with Orrin. The info made no sense, I can not believe I wasted my time listening to his crap. I was the only one to show up from or turbo 50 down. Waste of time could have been sleeping!

  39. fastfruit2oo9 permalink
    December 3, 2012 2:13 pm

    Sad stories above…

    Future MLMers… Please Read:
    Rather than getting in – consider two points from the banking industry:
    1. Advice from a Banker:
    Home Lenders were criticized for the “Sub – Prime” problem. Yet these banks/lenders were required due to an ugly policy by Progressives to GIVE risky loans – and this caught up to the market with the crash in 2008/2009. BLAMED were bankers who clearly understand:
    – Bankers make PROFITs, as they understand WHAT A GOOD BUSINESS MODEL IS AND WHAT IS BAD or will NOT work.

    2. Advice from An Accountant:
    I read a study of MLMs by a CPA (Corp Controller level finance professional) who had the following banking or investing advice: “when approached by an MLM, request the last 3 years of W-2’s to see if there is ANY PROFIT claimed by this individual”. Until you see a TRUE GAURANTEE OF PROFIT (a W-2 shows Sales Amounts which are reduced by COSTS to achieve the SALES, a Positive difference is the PROFIT).
    – If that can NOT be provided for the most recent 3 years, you are not dealing with a person “Making Money”.

    Trusting these points will help sway the MLMer from Ambot/Q*/TOD/Tm_2/Tm in Hiding/Tm-Mv/Tm-LieF to use this simple logic prior to selling LOSSes to family and friends.

  40. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 3, 2012 3:23 pm


    “Tm_2 in Hiding”… Excellent, Right on the Money!…Bahaha, thanks for the laughs! 🙂

  41. Finally permalink
    December 4, 2012 5:55 am

    Amthrax, in our team it was done face to face or via phone. We would get a call to check out the site they wanted to get attention and tell us to post or comment. We did this all of the time. We also did it on the vanity sites as well.

  42. freedomhaha permalink
    December 12, 2012 6:49 am

    I was re reading this post today and one line in Bill’s email struck me. It is when he said “We want them to find out the positive things about TEAM”. I think it was odd that he phrased it in this way. First, he admits that not-so-positive things about TEAM may exist online. I would imagine that a decent amount of cult members don’t even know that this type of quality even exists online. Second, he admits that people have been quitting TEAM because of online sites. Of course we know this is true, but I still love hearing it from a PC cult member himself. 🙂

  43. Lynwood permalink
    December 19, 2012 9:22 pm

    Just started with the Team/Life business. I see very little positive about this business and wonder if the ones who post their negative comments are ones who did not follow through with the business plan or were not savvy enough to follow through with the plan. Not being cynical about those who post but one can read anything on the internet nowadays and I am truly cynical about what I read on the internet.

  44. December 20, 2012 12:16 pm

    @Lynwood – Did you mean to say that you see very little negative about this business? The rest of your comments were a critique of those critical about the business.

    There have been legitimate questions raised on this blog (see 50+ questions post on the right) about the history of TEAM/LIFE, the financial difficulties of some of its leaders (during a time in which things were supposed to be going well), and the difficulties in actually succeeding financially in this business. If you want to be cynical about what you read on the Internet, that’s your choice. Just don’t be ignorant at the same time.

  45. freedomhaha permalink
    December 21, 2012 4:30 am

    Lynwood- You have good reason to be skeptical, but I urge you to keep looking around this blog. Do yourself a HUGE favor and get out now. No matter how big you build your TEAM it will be by stealing from other people. Check out the comp plan analysis and see that 97% of people will always lose money in LIEF even if they do go to a million people.

  46. December 21, 2012 6:05 am


    Oh, hi there! welcome on board. Real glad you are open minded’nuff to drop a comment for us. We are very open minded, have a penchant for unvarnished truths and embrace lively logical debates.

    About TEAM as with most anything in life I would like to encourage you that however one sided a man may be, he will likely have other sides if you look hard enough. Keeping an open mind read what Amthrax has suggested and ask questions of your uplines and us here.

    Quick question why did you choose not to comment using your full names?

    Also be sure to look at TEAM’s policies and procedures regulating it’s members conduct to freely comment on online boards like this one now that you are part of TEAM, lest you are unwittingly in disobeyance of the same.

  47. Rascal Teamster permalink
    December 21, 2012 7:35 am


    I think the main thing you are missing is what most people miss until they reach the point of quitting. The Team business, any business, is built upon relationships that are bound together by trust. In order for the business to flourish, it can only move as fast as the “Speed Of Trust” allows. (That’s a great book in the Team system…btw).

    If you read the critics here, you will find the same overtone, and it’s the one you are missing. That bond of trust between upline and down line and Orrin to the Team has been violated. And if you read these posts, it was violated in many different ways to many different leaders.

    Your question as to whether or not we built it or wimped out would depend upon whom you are reading. Some had HUGE teams, such as Former Round Table, Melanie, and Raquel, while others such as myself, worked it hard 6 yrs ago, built it to Turbo numbers, lost it in transition, and never got it back. I camped out….but even the climbers weren’t able to build it. So I stuck it out for another 4 yrs till I couldn’t afford to anymore waiting for Team to figure it out. They still haven’t.

    How many times would this have to happen to you before trust erodes….even just a little? You are invited to a house plan at a big upline leaders house….he’s a round table. Awe hell….dude….Joe Darkangelo had a house plan at his house. Mark Paul, my upline leader and mentor, did the plan. Bill Lewis did the teaching after the plan. Both of them touted Joe as a Big Wig, financial guru, got it all together kind if guy. He always had been, and his leadership credentials never changed. 14 days later he declares bankruptcy. Mark claimed he didn’t know Joe was in trouble to me personally on the phone. Horse crap! He knew, and I have no doubt Bill did as well. It was a lie. Joe was not financially free. He was skating on credit, maintaining his lifestyle, gambling that Team was going to make it big with the Walmart concept. Monavie, touted as the land if milk and honey by Orrin, wasn’t enough to cover his debts, and he declared bankruptcy. Just read the Timeline. it there…’s all deception. It’s not being trustworthy.

    I know all these guys personally, and I trusted them. I trusted my family’s future to them. What if I had brought my dad to that meeting and edified Joe to him, only to find out that Joe was a farce? How could I look my dad in the eye? That is real, brother, and if you can’t read that in here, you aren’t looking. And if you do read that, discount it as a lie, or believe that these leaders have changed their heart because they said so, I’ll save a seat here for you next to me….I did the same thing stupidly for years after I had a reason to distrust them.

    If you have been in for a year, ask yourself how many retirement parties you’ve attended? Surely there are uplines in your group close. That would make sense, wouldn’t it? I never attended one in 6 yrs, cause there wasn’t one for me to attend. My immediate upline was a Turbo 25 4 yrs ago, and today, he’s struggling to make Director.

  48. freedomhaha permalink
    December 21, 2012 8:35 am

    Rascal- My (thankfully former) uplines business has never been bigger than it was in 2007, but yet they are still in. Sounds reasonable, right?

  49. Rascal Teamster permalink
    December 21, 2012 8:53 am

    It seems for some uplines, Freedomhaha, perpetuating the myth that this is growing when in fact it’s merely a poor example of a replacement business, is a better option than going back to work. The funny thing is, a full time job is less stressful on a family and less time consuming than the stuggle and stress of watching your income go up and down with every stupid little change the PC comes up with.

  50. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 21, 2012 9:16 am

    Anyone else seeing the “pattern” here. LOL..Their special lowering-the-bar “conference calls” “to comment on their pretentious sites isn’t working’.. they can’t “win” for losing….

    No problem.Plan B -“all the troops need to go on Amthrax site and comment”.LOL..cuz we were ‘caught’ once again…The orders are… to breach their own contracts?….Nothin new.

    Can anyone tell me what has “changed” in their “lief” mind twisting..rule breaking fantasy “war” tactics? Hmm…seems to me it is the SAME ole’ unethical methods & practices…

    These marching “soldiers” are green and naive (too sad), told to blatantly ignore and breach their own contracts, poor souls…just doin what their told.

  51. freedomhaha permalink
    December 21, 2012 11:04 am

    Rascal- That family does not need to go back to work because they are still working. They have been a “year away” for the last four years.

  52. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 21, 2012 11:41 am

    Rascal & Freedomhaha~

    This business would not survive without the lies and hyped up “growth.”

    I remember having a conversation with a leader who build some very large numbers who they too royally screwed over and then tried to humilate, they didn’t pay according to their numbers. More of they are not who they pretend to be or practice what they preach,(behind the scenes it is very different when someone calls them out) and even though Joe. D. knew of these unfair practices.. said he refuses to quit…why?…just because he said he wouldn’t.

    Doesn’t matter that the ship is sinking, he filed bankruptcy, it is an unsustainable, build & replace, bad “business opportunity”, you have to withhold and use deceptive practices (hurt others in every area) where you continually spin your wheels, with what-ever program of the week that too doesn’t plug the massive holes, just to try and recruit others faster than they quit!

    NO, it is because he said he wouldn’t…PRIDE..and they wonder why the ship is sinking, not to mention the pride that comes before the fall, along with the humiliation that will eventually be faced for the stubborn, arrogant..all just because “we said”…

  53. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 21, 2012 11:43 am

    sorry for the errors 🙂

  54. December 21, 2012 9:22 pm

    No worries all is well understood. You know if there’s a hole in one’s story or fence, something they would rather did not get out, always does. To say that the ugly, real, truths of TEAM and it’s callous charlatans will always find a way and get out. Thanx as you continue to share.

  55. Lynwood permalink
    December 21, 2012 9:44 pm

    @Amthrax ..Correction: “I see very little positive posted ‘on this blog’ ” about this business save for the few about books. Is it really that bad? Why has it not been shut down by some State AG? Have you reported it to any of the authorities? Also, I’m not ignorant (little harsh there, Amthrax). You seem to have a lot of knowledge/experience with this business that I don’t have but am attempting to find it. I appreciate your posts, too, so thank you for that.
    @ExAmbot ..I don’t know your real name either. We are even on that score. @all..Everything on here is news to me. I have my own doubts about the business and am attempting to do due diligence. That’s all. I stumbled on this site by accident looking for something else on Google. .
    I will continue to question/absorb these posts and this business until I reach my own conclusions. I did not just all off the turnip truck and have my own succesful business that I plan to sell soon but don’t want to be a couch potato. Much too young to do that but I could if I wanted to. I just joined in December and was not aware about posting on blogs being forbidden.
    I appreciate all the info on this blog and wish everyone well. May the New Year bring you good health and much success.

  56. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 21, 2012 10:55 pm


    I would also add check out the timeline, comp plan and the LIEF P&P, because members aren’t suppose to be commenting on sites like these and they could take your business from you, for whatever reason they see fit.

    Did you get a copy of the P & P and did you sign a “directors” contract? How about did you get “voted in” to get paid from the Team side and or just the LIEF side?

    If you are already “successful” in business, then you should be able to ask the right “business” questions. Good luck getting a straight answer, you will need it.

  57. December 23, 2012 11:19 am

    @Lynwood – Echoing Raquel’s comment, please look at the two timeline posts here. What is shown on the timelines wasn’t conjured out of thin air by the critics; it’s straight from the blogs, mouths, and legal documents from high-level TEAM/LIFE members themselves.

  58. December 23, 2012 9:48 pm


    “…Due diligence…”

    I appreciate that of you very. Tally up what you read here and raise “due diligence” questions with TEAM peoples. See what kind of answers you get.

    You said,
    “I just joined in December and was not aware about posting on blogs being forbidden.”

    That was the point nothing to do with your full name. So TEAM has suspended your constitutional First Amendment Right after signing the agreement form. You ok with that? Did you read it, do you have a copy? If not what did you sign and do you think it was a bit rush of you to? Not even your state government can legally thwart your first amendment right, but TEAM is arrogant enough to. Might that be a good question to start with for TEAM people?

    Team is a new trail for you, don’t trot full speed especially before you complete and conclude your due diligence process. Good luck.

  59. Jacknthebeanstalk permalink
    March 23, 2013 5:46 pm

    How do you explain the people who have found success in the LIFE and TEAM that are not Policy Council members or Round Tables? How have some turned great profits and others haven’t? Is it a scam to the people who use the LIFE information for self development? Does anyone here think the material itself has any quality?

  60. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 23, 2013 5:51 pm


  61. Rascal Teamster permalink
    March 24, 2013 3:58 am


    It’s pretty easily explained. Unfortunately it took me 5 years to see it.

    Right now there are current Round Tables and people who once qualified at Round Table who are still working a job or have gone back to work. They aren’t making a wage that would allow them to be free.

    I was in the Paul Tribe for 5.5 yrs active. Mark Paul is on Orrin & Brady’s tap root. I was on Mark’s side leg. That’s as good a spot as you can get. I never saw one person retire….not one. The volume in my immediate downline’s business is eaxactly where it was 12 months ago. There are over 100 people beneath me. Last month, only 8 of them have customers and could even earn a check. That’s sad!

    Things in Team are not as they appear. This is a build and replace business. It has been since Quixtar. Everything else is artificial growth.

  62. Rascal Teamster permalink
    March 24, 2013 4:23 am

    The other thing, Jack, is where’s the income disclosure statement?

    They were supposed to have one 6 months after LIFE started. It’s really easy to do. People made money….put the numbers out there.

    Unless the numbers are embarrassing, can you tell me why the PC hasn’t created it? They said they would.

  63. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 4:27 am

    @JackintheBeanstalk: okay, I for one have had enough… MUST be a male or a very young, ignorant (not stupid, just ignorant at this point) member. Before I “go off” here: let me tell you something first: I had a grandmother (b. 1889) who finally put her shoes on, got out of the kitchen drudgery and having one baby after another, and got out and marched for the women’s right to vote. In the 1960’s and 1970’s, her granddaughter (me) got out and fought for equal pay for equal work for women. So some things that have gone on, as told by some women who had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of things, well, it’s time to smell the coffee here. And remember: don’t take it out of context, and don’t think that it’s the sum total of what’s wrong with this cult-like business….it’s only one aspect.

    It has been brought up by members in this group, under the guise of good ol’ Christian religion, of course….that the subliminal goal is to actually get women barefoot and back in the kitchen (my words: their words would be to hide their goal of a return to where women are supportive property of men who are involved, which removes an obstacle of complaining as the money drains), as if somehow corraling these women who would have chosen otherwise for themselves will somehow have better children, and blissful marital harmoney, etc. For those women who want to do this because deep down it’s what SHE wants, so be it. (If you think I’m joking, I am referencing actual stories where even a female doctor allowed this to happen to herself! And with NO guaranteed income/retirement for the rest of her life.)

    What you duped member DO NOT know, and it never seems to get talked about on here is this: some women have complained that women in this organization have ALSO been given [behind closed doors by those who are breaking the law by NOT being licensed counselors in the first place, etc.] instruction, for example: on how to pleasure their husbands to keep them satisfied–like how to do oral sex, etc. This is outrageous! I hope this comes up in a current court case, too! I really do!

    Here’s something else that should come up in a court case, too: a male in authority, bedding one member while divorcing the current wife, and later, making passes at other women while in a position as an upliner who supposedly counsels lower leg members. Counsels them on what so self-righteously?!! How to cheat, how to be smarmy? Reminds me of a Dire Straits song form the 80’s: Money for Nothin’ (and your chicks for free).

    I, for one, believe what some of these female members are reporting. Wake up and use your religion correctly……..stop with the forked tongues behind closed doors.

    Jackinthebeanstalk: you call this true SUCCESS?!! I call it the herding of duped cattle, the instillation of one ideal with the absolute breaking of it behind closed doors. I call it the bastardization of any religion. I call it the mythical “sucker born every minute” scam and using honest peoples’ belief systems surreptitiously against them. You need to read the stories about sex, lies, and inculcation that have been reported in books about the “mother” or original business shenanigans in Amway….it goes back decades!

    Ask yourself:

    WHAT truly upstanding, successful business out there tells a 40 yr old to tell their disabled, elderly parents that the parents have no vision and no guts to join what the FTC most certainly would term a pyramid-type scheme?

    What successful business has a PC make disgusting posts on facebook and twitter suggesting that you might be too scared of success to join and might piss yourself [a PC’s words, not mine!].

    What successful business does not let members talk to other crossline members? Is this a pseudo-religious gestapo?

    What successful business needs to rant and rave about the Progressive Movement of 1913, other than to make money off of DeMille’s (a marginalized, extreme character in his own right) book by having all you poor slobs buy it?

    What successful business needs to push a hidden agenda of getting members to rabble rouse against the Federal Reserve banking system [note: little fed up with it myself, but c’mon here].

    What successful business lets newbies run amok, telling everyone that they had substandard educations, without understanding the finer nuances of what they really meant? (Here we’ve got the confused and ignorant, and like any business, some of lesser intelligence to begin with…..telling new members stuff like this! It’s absurd!)

    You call this leadership? The instillation of leadership skills? We call it cult inculcation tactics. Keep following your Pied Piper….but remember: the magic beanstalk will come crashing down from the sky eventually. This business is unsustainable. It’s got a long history of different iterations and a trail of foreclosures from higher ups.

    No one ever said that there is absolutely no “value” in what is taught on some of the CDs……the main perp of this business is smarter than that. It’s what the REALITY is and behind closed doors crap and the people below him and his head honchos that can really bolix up a poor needy mind. To you I say: GROW UP/WISE UP….and do it fast. Save yourself.

  64. Katie permalink
    March 24, 2013 4:59 am

    Ageofwisdom, preach it!! I am totally on the same page as you. Their stereotypical classification of gender roles as well as their incorporation of one sided politics and religion into a “business” was the last straw for me. Where I work now is listed every year as one of the top 50 companies for working mothers and I don’t have to say a prayer before I start a meeting – That’s freedom!

    To jacks point, there is however some really nice literature out there that TEAM recommmends. Personality plus, the 5 love languages, the Stephen covey books, dal Carnegie, these are all good books with good information for life, personal and business. But there is no reason to pay $150 for a ticket, drive to another state, and pay full price for the books because a rich guy tells you to. Get them at the library for free and have a self improvement meal without the side of brainwashing.

  65. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 5:01 am

    Jackinthebeanstalk: by the way, an upliner stood right next to my grown child at a meeting when grown child was forced to call me and went down a list, spewing such tripe to me like: 1) oh, you were on the internet? And then proceeding to tell me what lies were on here and how they don’t go on and how stupid I was to believe this stuff, etc. 2) that, as a disabled retiree, I have no “vision” to join this wonderful new business that’s so full of love and comraderie. 3) I was told, in question format: don’t I realize what a mediocre education I had? (I didn’t know if I should laugh or have this child of mine committed by the time this almost middle-aged kid got that far). 4) That this group’s business had the answers to not just all of our common societal ills, but the universe. (By this time, I wanted to ask my grown kid if he was on crack or something). He actually whispered to me that as a newbie, he and 5 others at the moment were being “tested” on his first soliciting phone calls. THIS is instilling leadership skills?

    Life/Team/Training gets people to draw in others, in an effort to make money, when newbies are so completely ignorant/green behind the ears of how to approach potential victims of this scam? It’s all too absurd for words. No bonafide business selling bonafide products does this on day 1. You’re gonna pull in, for example (not speaking about my own child here), an unemployed factory worker who may not even have finished high school and at the end of day 1, have them make ire-inducing solicitations to family without having any business savvy or having actually studied expectations or what the company is about, but you’re going to coach them on what to say and what to pooh-pooh if they get probing questions?

    Yeah, my grown kid thought he was getting into it for his own self-improvement at first, too. If this were true, i.e., that one can be in in it just for self-improvement, then why did this happen? Why did they have him try to pull a handful MORE in when he had no idea what was going on? Yeah, that was some “breakout session” they had. The duped blind leading the blind. We, the parents had already been signed up for a seat at a future meeting by them without our permission!

  66. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 5:28 am

    Katie: I agree with you that they have recommended some good books…and thank goodness for that. The worrisome part is: they have, at least in the past, also printed blogs and their own publications loaded with surreptitious agendas and a skewing of absolute facts left within context of actual history.

    Case in point: Thomas Jefferson. OW’s etal use of TJ comes out over what was good and just and progressive about the man, but they take him out of his time and place as a white man with prejudices against Native Americans and women, etc., too. Most of what this particular MLM head honcho is after/emulating/quoting is because TJ began to turn against the idea of Federal banking. He’s worked very hard to inculcate members into becoming blanket far right wingers by pulling out of history, all that he sees wrong (from a rich businessman’s perspective) in our society/economy today.

    So, I’m glad they recommend others’ readings….too bad one little ignorant WI PC decided to use quotes on Twitter and fB that included things like: poverty isn’t pretty and will turn the poor into murderers, type of ilk. So along with the good, have been the subliminal messages to start believing the marginal extremist views, too. Heard my own kid start to parrot some of these extremist views very early on. Here’s the rub: they use some very real ills in our economy and ills that developed over the last 40-50 decades to try to PROVE that their MLM will offer financial freedom that the individual “deserves”, if only they try hard enough, and if the individual fails, it’s the individual’s fault, not the business’s because supposedly, they gave you the tools. (In reality, the “tools” are nothing more than to make sure those you bring in mo’ people for mo’ money to support the uplines in a dollar flow as they convince you that you got real “VALUE” for your worthless CD money and their $269 for their “Mental Fitness Challenge Test”, etc.–to keep them buying the same repackaged tools and new books they are affiliated with and get profits from. It’s all like a straw house that’s actually a blow-it-down house created by the wolves.

    BOTTOM LINE when one sifts through the “leadership skills” material: They hone in on the bad or mistakes made in our governing history and current socioeconomic status woes to promote more unrest, to tell you that your Christian God now wants you to be materially rich and the happier for it, when in reality all they are doing is: promoting a 97% mathematicqally-guaranteed WORSE investment of time and money. Yeah, those few at the top are laughin’ all the way to the bank.

  67. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 5:31 am

    excuse the typos….can’t proofread on here because the typing box keeps jumping around

  68. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 6:01 am

    Oh, and lest I forget: what bonafide, “Jesus loves you and wants you to be rich, and we love you and will guide you” so0called leadership business that SUPPOSEDLY promotes family values, is going to instill guilt in an almost-middle-aged child of ours (who has an infant and toddler at home, and who already worked a long weekday workday) this:

    that if the new member does not show up for some south-central WI area “meeting” (which was at least a 70 mile ride one way) that this new member truly isn’t serious about “the biz”…

    and to tell that parent (our grown child) of young children that the meeting is more important than the care of those young children/our beloved grandchildren!

    Folks, if the math is too hard for you, if you don’t believe Mike’s work here on Amthrax, or if you fail to see the red flags of what you’ve already heard and experienced on your own, or even if you wear pretty thick blinders: …

    you have GOT to see how wrong this is! Meeting after meeting, dollar after dollar, all of sketchy promises that if you only try hard enough, you’re going to have the same mansion as the hate-the-poor-and-other non-members, PC-spewer’s mansion that has taxes of about 15 grand per year near Whitewater, Wisconsin!

    I heard it with my own ears, as this grown child zipped off to points unknown, leaving me with already-stressed children that needed to be home. THAT was the moment of my own rebellion. THAT was the moment I took a stand. I don’t give a rat’s ARSE what is good about what they teach or the facade of comraderie or Christianisty……

    that they would promote such incendiary claptrap and attempt to instill such false guilt in ANYONE, especially parents of small children, it then proves beyond a shadow of a doubt what they ARE under the sheep’s clothing.

  69. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 2:05 pm

    How does one call themselves a “servant” when they enslave?

    Positions are bought, multi-millions made from these self proclaimed “servants/en- slavers” Whom abuse the positional all-knowing “authority,” to create an environment where they use that authority/ undue influence to create conformity.

    Then Use that slowly but steady to convince & now control the captured so-called free-thinking individual (who become non-thinking individual and group think, speak & act identical) but convinced with promises of riches and the answers to the “universe”, to get financial freedom, “if you change your thinking!”.

    Then those so-called (conformed) free thinkers, dwell completely in the tightly controlled secluded from the world by the “masters” who call themselves “servants” and are the ones who created the culture for others to serve them!

    Those captivated no-longer identifiable as individuals… have become the sellers of their doctrine & philosophy (their way of thinking only). They are submissive and want to please and perform to the authority & masters because they have been consumed by riches & wealth. They have bought into the “masters” all-knowing, unquestioning that authority… now no one but the ‘masters’ trump everyone and are the only ones who have the answers.

    They slowly but then firmly, shut out and off the real world and their own feelings, beliefs and thoughts… after being totally consumed and immersed in “their teachings”.. long enough, strong enough creates “like-mindedness” or..their “way of thinking”,

    Only because they now live under peer pressure, that creates arrogance, righteousness, and disdain for anyone and everyone who aren’t “in”..or have a different profession, political belief, religious belief… is behavior modification and is clearly seen as “not who they are or were”. by their loved ones, co-workers, bosses, parents, children, siblings.. and the real world. Blinded…can’t even see the truth right under their nose or check books! Sad & destructive.

  70. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 2:22 pm

    Their comp plan is the biggest offender..The “servants” designed it, controls it and can change it anytime without permission from all those “business owners”, permission.

    Who does it serve them most?… The lions share goes from the real “servants” at the bottom to the TOP less than 1% “servants.”

  71. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 2:35 pm

    Hey, Melanie: about what you wrote: YUP (big grin…at first I thought I was reading a script for some type of enslavement camp in part of the Lord of the Rings Trilogy 🙂 )…and like I said elsewhere on here lately, there was a LOT to be learned from reading OW’s concentrated leadership blog about military tactics in WWII where he felt the need to actually produce/reproduce a diagram photo of the infiltration and surrounding of the masses when it comes to herding/redirecting populations and subduing populations, eh?

    You know, when it comes to those who actually want to “build a business” (i.e., more than just soak up a few CDs to enlighten themselves) I think many of the arguments, once and for all, could be at least 75% settled if all involved would agree to have a CPA auditor do their asset/liability sheets and agree to publish them.

    As an aside on a recent prior post: I sincerely wonder what I’d be writing on Amthrax now if something horrible had happened due to the insistence of my grown child’s moronic upline insisting the newbie travel halfway across the state for a meeting at night and not getting back until very late/early wee hours, using tactics to get compliance by instilling uncalled for guilt (especially after my child had been on the road 10-12 hrs that day doing difficult driving)…..if my child had crashed a car and severely maimed/killed himself or others. I (for the spouse/children left behind) would probably be singin’ a sad but militant-with-a-vengeance song at a lawyer’s office with the determination only a parent/grandparent has…….to make them fry in their Christian ideal of eternal hellfire for as long as I lived, most likely. I think I’d have kept it up like John Walsh (of America’s Most Wanted) did when his son Adam was murdered. Let me lapse into my prior Catholocism here: ‘thank God’ it’s over and he’s out of this cult!

  72. MemoryLame permalink
    March 24, 2013 2:53 pm

    Funny, I remember listening for the “right” cd’s to give to my brother, or pastor, or other REAL Christian friends to show them how this “business” was really going to save the world. I never did find the right ones, because even when there was no”opportunity” (between Quixtar and Monavie), when I felt the materials were at their best EVERY cd had at least one remark that would hang me up.
    There was always a phrase that was too self-aggrandizing or belittling of someone else, or too pop-political or a scripture a little out of context (Jeremiah 29:11, ‘as a man thinketh…’, etc) or reworded (‘God won’t give you more than you can handle’ is NOT in the Bible anywhere.), too materialistic, sarcastic, or -as time went on – contradictory of other things THEY taught. (‘Don’t product load…we bought a little extra to make our PV goal,’ -J. Martin or Brady’s “We ain’t sellin’ no jungle juice”)
    Now, I think the real issue is that I thought this was really going to save our finances, family, churches, country, the world. Only Jesus does that. This is just a scam.
    Ironically the more I plugged into the material I bought and applied the main things they taught, such as only taking advice from people with fruit on the tree, and checking the credentials of who I took advice from – the more I doubted these leaders.

    To Jackinthebeanstalk,

    Read the books, especially the Bible. Read other books by the authors of the books in system too. Take note of the people they quote and look them up. In fact take a TON of notes on nearly everything they say, and watch just how many contradictions you end up recording. It will make a believer out of you.

  73. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 2:54 pm


    I rejoice with you! 🙂

  74. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 24, 2013 3:24 pm

    @MemoryLame: Thank You! You said it all in this partial quote: “There was always a phrase that was too self-aggrandizing or belittling of someone else, or too pop-political or a scripture a little out of context….” This, too, is what I noted in many blogs and off-hand parroted quotes (some of which were downright vicious against certain populations or ideas). What really got to me at times wasthe taking out of context or brushing aside broader meanings to fit one man’s agenda. Am glad to hear it wasn’t just me as an affected outsider finding this in public so-called leadership blogs—you, too, noticed it with direct teaching propaganda.

    @Melanie: Thank You! We are so happy to see them back to a more normal life. I’ve got my assertive mouth under lock and key to forever stifle the abominable “I told you so.” No one wants to feel any dumber or sadder than they have to for getting sucked (by one’s own regular business boss no less!) into a confusing mishmosh that the current iteration of this MLM is (consumable/renewable products vs selling redundant team tools and dreams–you know what I mean). He’d possibly have had more luck actually earning money by sending out ten one dollar bills to 10 different people in an illegal chain letter endeavor.

    (note: not advocating chain letter stuff–this actually happened to a bunch of us when in our ignorant early 30’s and the cops went to everyones homes looking for the perps and stopping those solicited from further getting involved)

  75. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 4:10 pm


    Thank You for the not saying the “I told you so!”… as hard as I know it must be, especially when the arrogance and abuse one (you & all others) must endured by most… when ensnared by this mind and emotional twisting “change-your-life-(lack of a real)>business-opportunity!”

  76. Melanie Morgan permalink
    March 24, 2013 6:29 pm

    Memory Lame~

    I think everyone sucked in and got out can relate to your post, Thank You, I appreciate your honesty!

  77. MemoryLame permalink
    March 24, 2013 8:29 pm

    I remember I would think to myself, “Well, I know what [Brady, Woodward, insert speaker here] meant by that, but my brother won’t.” One sort of felt like they knew these guys because they knew people who “sat in their living room and saw that they were what they claimed to be.”

    In the end, there were a LOT of things that came out of the mouths of these leaders that required a special filter to not repeat in a way that came out wrong to people that weren’t a part of the 5% we thought we were working to be.

    Age, I’m glad you don’t say “I told you so” to your kid though. I think most, if not all, of us that were in can attest, not everything we said during this time came out the way we intended at all. In fact, I would wager that your son, like the lion’s share of us was really convinced that he was making an intense short term commitment in an endeavor that would yield long term results. That sentiment in and of itself is not different than any other professional career or advanced degree achievement. When you start out, you don’t understand at first why you’re going through certain exercises, but the people with the results tell you they went through it so you think you just need to suck it up and do it too.

    The difference here is that these “leaders” aren’t running a true professional organization, but they convince others they are. When you’re in it, it is hard to understand why the people you love don’t seem to “support” you in an endeavor you believe is bettering you. If your kid is like I was, he even had dreams of blessing you with his wealth one day. I even drew and hung sketches of the house I would build for my parents when I went PC, and had a plan for how I would surprise them with it. My husband and I had agreed we would help them before we helped ourselves.

    It was a slow and painful realization that those dreams would never be fulfilled via TEAM, and that in our short term pursuit would ultimately only keep us from spending precious moments with those very loved ones. To hear “I told you so” would be/is crushing.

    The emotional vulnerability one experiences in this group is unprecedented for most people, and it makes every criticism feel like an attack.

  78. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    March 25, 2013 4:00 am

    @MemoryLame: (as an aside: I just felt like writing this morning–I think this is all flooding out of us here at our house in the aftermath of being secondary victims of Life/Team). (My suggestion to the guys on here who hate long posts: skip it, don’t read it)

    Anyway: You know why I don’t say “I told you so?” Because of what you said. In a short space of time, it was obvious that good people with good intentions were getting into this “business,” and had no intention to hurt others. So we went from extremely indignant at what the then-newest puppet was spouting last summer, to realizing how he was justifiably misinterpreting some of what he was spewing. And I realized that the confusion was like a landslide downhill from the highest perpetrator, with no check and balance system to offer TRUE guidance and education.

    Oh, no, I’m not sticking up for OW here whatsoever–in fact, he is the main culprit to blame for allowing the blinded/duped to lead the newest blind coming into it, and allowing his closest underling henchmen to actually get on worldwide social media sites making outrageous, hateful statements against victims and their families, thereby further instilling subliminal messaging to his minions.

    I think a major case in point for us was: my son was truly shocked at our vehement retorts to the sophomoric statement that, for just one example: my college education was sub-standard. He was too new, too ignorant at this to couch his words more carefully….I began to see this as I read blogs and watched videos where higher-ups were trying to get across their ideas of certain things lacking in general educations, public school education, etc.

    (Just for reference sake: I could go on and on–but will try not to– about how my grown child KNEW, because he witnessed it himself, how hard it was to devote those college years while balancing parenthood to be able to come out #1 graduate, etc. He was there when the deputy surgeon general of the United States gave me an award on a national stage, and showcased in a national nursing journal, etc.)

    Suffice it to say: my own, only kid blew us out of the water with what seemed like pure, unadulterated degrading insolence. At the time, part of my brain was saying: Life/Team can’t actually be teaching this, can they? While at the same time, a rage of a lifetime began to form because in what I did to better myself, I did also for the sake of being able to afford at least an honest, solid, secure middle-class life for my only child.

    The rage portions for us as parents came into play over things like this, for example: my first two full paychecks as a professional went into getting my child a nice new first “adult” bedroom set. The next ones to get BMX bikes and gear because he was a great BMX racer. At the same time, we tried to not over-indulge. New fishing gear had to come out of the pocket of a 10 yr old who stuffed newspapers and had a paper route.

    All in all, we tried to be sound parents, the best we could–not perfect, but at least sound. Heck, by now you guys know what my philosophy of some parts of life are, so y’all can have a chuckle at this: I even had him in a religious gradeschool, so he, later in life, could make a more educated/informed choice if he wanted to maintain Christian beliefs or not.

    So in the early summer of 2012, when this grown child is now nearing middle age, it was an outrageous shock to hear some of the freshly instilled vitriol come out of his mouth. I’m sure everyone knows that if it had been possible for us to fly through a phone line, we’d likely have given him his first physical slap in life and first taste of a bar of soap.

    So, it left us with no choice: start reading what’s coming out of the mouth and off of the pen of the originator. And note: I never said that I disagreed in totality with all of OW’s beliefs or statements. What I object to most is

    1) the charade facade of a wolf dressed like a Christian lamb, using peoples’ religion–their guiding light for living–against them, or falsely in order to line his and his top cronies pockets.

    2) Pushing his own sociopolitical agenda under the guise of “leadership skills” to the ignorant, unsuspecting masses (let’s face it, he doesn’t purposely try to draw in sociopolitical historians and mathematicians, does he? Oh, and I’m not talking about any business-place talks he might do).

    3) OW and CB know full well by now that with this type of business, one should NEVER try to solicit friends and family—they are not stupid…they KNOW this will generate terrible conflict and fallout…because it’s part of their hidden “herding and sequestering” techniques.

    Will say it again: I never said OW was stupid–a megalomaniac about his own importance maybe, and supremely narcissistic as is shown by his henchman blog characters like Steadfast who even had to try to completely destroy an elderly, disabled parental secondary victim of their SE Wisconsin foolishness that’s overseen by a Twitter/fB potty-mouthed/mind 36-37 yr old auto mechanic (and no, I am not trying to be derogatory about auto mechanics at all–have a master auto mechanic in our family–but it’s not exactly a managerial/family counseling/fiscal/accounting/religious, etc., training degree to oversee a revolutionary leadership-type business.

    Case in point: very telling to see young “co-founder” Dan show a video of himself acting silly, panning hiw own vid-cam around the ground and house of his fancy estate—instead of acting like a true businessman with a brain, imparting something valuable. See? It’s really all about material wealth. Young folks might be impressed by this. Older folks like myself would be knowingly shaking our heads.

    4) OW, in his greed, has allowed these types of person-to-person misinterpretations (if, indeed, they are actually misinterpretations)of new members to continue, because most certainly, we are NOT the first ones to complain about this.

    It is my opinion that even if they have degree’d, qualified persons on those CDs, that they DO NOT have qualified people in the smaller groups who are handing out marriage counseling, financial counseling, etc., (in the 8F’s) amidst the push to get people to show up for more meetings and spend more money. This, in the end, I hope is what buries them, at least in the state of Wisconsin.

    Example: I’m sure most with my background would agree to this statement: an astute, conscientious, intelligent triply-certified critical care RN, after 5 to 10 years working a busy, large Critical Care or ER area has likely seen enough to be able to correctly diagnose patients in his/her specialty–BUT THE FACT IS THIS: it is prohibited by Wisconsin law, and we must couch our knowledge and assessments as objective data to physicians [who spend so little time with the patients], but nonetheless are those who have the licensed right to get to clap their foreheads as if they had a V-8 juice moment in a diagnosis. ONE MAY NOT PRACTICE IN AREAS REQUIRING LICENSES AND CERTIFICATIONS IF THEY LACK THE CREDENTIALS.

    OW and his upper crews are allowing these transgressions at lower levels, and they know it. They are allowing UNQUALIFIED persons to actually inculcate and direct newbies without proper overseeing–and they get away with it and the two-faced stances because it’s in person, it’s verbal, not in writing. Why haven’t any of you disgruntled folks ever gone behind those closed doors wearing wires or recorders?

    Example: if one is having marital problems, isn’t one supposed to go to their upline? They are being told MORE than to listen to the CDs (this is OW’s “out” in responsibility, because there are degree’d people on certain-subject CDs, but that doesn’t mean they’re any good, either, of course), but anyway, being coached by unqualified is happening and I can tell you for an absolute fact, just by what was going on, on the phone with my grown child and one of the UNQUALIFIED persons in the background supposedly “coaching” the newbie while at a big meeting.

    Then, think about what some of the women in this organization have reported about what they’ve been told behind closed doors about, um, how to support their husbands, etc. Again: no bonafide marriage counselor is going to tell you how to give oral sex jobs! Jesus!! (For those that doubt, go back and read the book ‘Merchants of Deception’ sections about the sexual crap that went on back in Amway in Dex Yager’s day, too).

    So, over time and continued investigation, I began to realize just how “green” my child was in their teachings and attitudes when the blow-up between us and him happened. He didn’t call to intentionally hurt us. What he did do: HE TOO RAPIDLY GOT SUCKED IN AND BELIEVED THEY WERE GIVING HIM THE KEYS TO SUCCESS.

    Someone out there needs to hold this former GM-engineering-degree’d “perp” accountable for the lamentable mess he’s created in/to peoples’ lives. Sooner or later, members who “see the light” will be able to get them LEGALLY on what is said/done/promoted at lower levels. Just wait until some bad advice is given out and a homicide or suicide or terrible accident happens……….maybe then the state and feds can get involved and infiltrate just like they did with the mafia.

    This, too, is a mafia, right down to how they use religion and toss aside those who question them. Only difference is: this MLM murders the spirit and character of those who wise up to or resist them. Everything else is the same as to how they get their money and how it filters upward, etc.


  1. Notes from the Orrin Woodward LIFE Business Conference Call « AMTHRAX

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