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Tool of the Day: MFC Box Set and Booster Pack

December 12, 2012

The LIFE Business is running a sale on the Mental Fitness Challenge Box Set and MFC Booster Pack. The deal is for $269.99, 270PV, 25% off, savings of $90 off the regular $359.99 price.

Let’s see what you get in the package:

  • Module 1
    • Resolved by Orrin Woodward: Regular price: $21.95
    • 8 Audio CDs
  • Module 2
    • Rascal by Chris Brady: Regular price $21.95
    • 4 Audio CDs
  • Module 3
    • Launching a Leadership Revolution by Chris Brady and Orrin Woodward: Regular price $15.95
    • 4 Audio CDs
  • MFC Challenge Booster
    • 14 Audio CDs

In total, you get: 30 Audio CDs and 3 books. Let’s do some more calculations to find the price of the CD’s. Assuming the price of the books stays the same:

$269.99 (25% off) – $59.85 (price of the books at retail) = $210.14 (price of Audio CDs)

$210.14 / 30 = $7/CD

Regular price is $269.99 + $90 = $359.99

$359.99 – $59.85 (price of the books at retail) = $300.14

$300.14 / 30 = $10/CD

I noticed that LIFE CD products are priced at $10. TEAM CD’s used to be priced around $5-7 a CD, right? And, didn’t the LLR CD’s used to be TEAM CD’s before they were LIFE CD’s? If so, it looks like there has been some price inflation going on!

I know that if you are on subscription, you get a discount of 20%, but that still prices LIFE products (which may have been TEAM products) at $8/CD. I remember back in the MonaVie days, Orrin would say that as volume goes up, the price of the tools would go down. I guess the 50% payout to LIFE leaders — that Orrin talks about so much — has to come from somewhere. Remember those comments of his decrying the 30% Jay Factor during the Amway/Quixtar lawsuits? Guess it’s okay now if it serves his purposes, no?

By the way, most people in the LIFE Business probably already have copies of the three books and a number of the CD’s, so I don’t see how this is a great deal for them. It gets worse when Orrin and company “update” the packs and urge people to buy the them all over again.

49 Comments leave one →
  1. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 12, 2012 3:48 pm

    What a “steal” 🙂

  2. Whirlwinded permalink
    December 12, 2012 3:50 pm

    Wow.. just when you think the crap can’t get any deeper! I could think of dozens of more beneficial ways to spend $300. As Obi Wan Kenobi said in Star Wars – A New Hope “who’s the fool? The fool, or the fool that follows?”

  3. I QUIT (and glad I did) permalink
    December 13, 2012 4:49 am

    Its quite simple really. The lief warehouse inventory of several of the items in the pack have reached unacceptable levels. The remaining items not included in the first group mentioned are being discontinued/re-titled/edited/re-packaged. The object is to move as much of the soon-to-be obsolete materials out to the sheep to minimize loss to the company (Owen and PC) while simultaneously maximizing profit.

  4. December 13, 2012 5:13 am


    Crap is true. They keep messing on the ogle eyed adherents (TEAMmunists) and call it apple butter. Phew.

  5. December 13, 2012 5:53 am

    @I Quit

    The game of repackaging and hyping the same old crap once again – no wonder they are busier than a cat covering crap on a marble floor.

  6. Mike Bickel permalink
    December 13, 2012 6:57 am

    If these books are in paperback, I hate to tell you, but you can get Launching a Leadership Revolution from Amazon at exactly $3.48 for new and $.01 for used. What does that also tell you? Remember those pyramid scheme chain letters that you’d just stick a mere $5.00 into an envelope and mail it to the top 5 guys on your list and then send out a similar letter to 20 other people and pretty soon you’d be rich? Well… when you take valueless paper and stick it into envelopes foolishly thinking that eventually YOU will be on the top of those many-times-copied lists and be rich because all these people will be sending YOU cash in envelopes, I can’t help see that worthless CDs and used books that can sell at $.01 on Amazon are really just the phony product that keeps this “pyramid scheme” from being illegal. Am I wrong here?

  7. aurora permalink
    December 13, 2012 9:04 am


    Here in the sticks we say, ‘busier than a cat covering up crap on a hard road.’

    Merry Christmas

  8. December 13, 2012 10:29 am

    Ha ha that’s country as cornflakes.

    I heard Merry Christmas is a big MLM commercial racket run by a big Eastern syndicate …LOL just kidding. We also say don’t sit there like a knot on a log – have a GREAT CHRISTMAS!

  9. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 13, 2012 3:49 pm


    I can’t help but look forward to your posts and know before I have finished reading them I will be laughing out loud..they just keeps getting better… “busier than a cat covering crap on a marble floor”… Hahahaha…I appreciate your humor! 🙂

  10. December 13, 2012 6:18 pm

    The ABSOLUTE reason the LIFE “Business” is not shut down and declared a ‘Bernard Madoff Ponzi Scheme/pyramid’ by the FBI is because TEAM leaders hired the “Best MLM Lawyers” which keeps the FBI off their asses. This is the truth spoken from the tongue of a current PC just over a year ago. If you stripped away the Lawyers – this “business” is nothing more than funneling money to the top of the pyramid to get rich. This specific topic deserves more focus, especially by the FBI and certainly on this site.

    What is the names of the LIFE Lawyers??? Who are they? Legal Credentials? Do they have experience with other MLM’s? What is the specific loop holes allowing this ‘operation’ to continue? HOW are they getting around it? Let’s hear from actual Lawyers on this topic to reveal the truths LIFE leaders don’t want discussed, the elephant in the room if you may, hoping we focus on the ant.

    As Orrin claims.. LIFE is a 50 MILLION dollar business! OK, the FBI should be all over this considering NOW they know how much money is exchanging hands and probably NOT all claimed on taxes. Here’s the solution.. the FBI should get a warrant, storm into the TEAM LIFE Head Office (4072 Market Place Flint Michigan), demand to see the COMPLETE lines of sponsorship and the breakdown of funds – 50 MILLION dollars and who’s pocketing the profits – the top 30-40 people. I bet thousands of TEAM Members would like to know this as well.. considering this money is being cleverly stolen from them under the disguise of ‘Self Improvement’.

  11. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 13, 2012 6:50 pm

    KC- Knowing the dedication of people on this site something will turn up in the next couple days on this.

  12. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 13, 2012 7:03 pm

    “I remember back in the MonaVie days, Orrin would say that as volume goes up, the price of the tools would go down.”

    Great Point Amthrax…but clearly and from ours and others experiences, what they say and what they do… are 2 different things. I thought they also ‘claimed’ they had the best prices in the industry, no?

    What I find Interesting, is the very Product Company they are a part of and contractually bound to is..Monavie..but aren’t they their Direct “Competitors”? Yes, I believe their ” training system” would be a direct competitor with the MVP training program. Does anyone else see this?

    Back to the best prices in the industry…the Monavie MVP training program offers 100 Cd’s for $69.00! If my math is correct, then this would be .69 cents per cd, right!? .69 cents vs. $8-$10 dollars,(per cd) which is the best price?

    Does Orrin consider people who would participate in the MVP “competitors” or “disloyal”, well maybe not publicly but I have not a doubt he does privately. Does he take people’s “profit-sharing” away if he “thinks” someone would be ‘disloyal’ and buy a some cd’s from a training company even though they are both with Monavie?,,, the “business” that is suppose to be the “main business?”…But yet a competitor? Does anyone know if or where Orrin discloses exactly what Monavie MVP training program is in relation to LIFE?

    Charging $8-10 bucks per cd… that is a huge margin and price hike..we paid $5 for cd’s other times $6. And in our case…..Unfortunately we spent way too much money and have way too may years paying for… way too many Cd’s. We donated continuously to the “profit-sharing” and sadly sacrificing other people’s money who we brought in and helped…but then we falsely believed they were trustworthy, Godly people with integrity, who would never hurt anyone’s businesses.

    We regretfully trusted Orrin and the Pc, whom now I know from our experience was a Huge mistake. They violated “our trust” and every individual on our team’s who also trusted their was obviously millions..of money in the profit-sharing..and now (a little late) after helping bring in thousands of people…who never made a profit…just donated an extreme amount of money to Orrin’s secret formulated.. Top heavy.. “profit-sharing” plan. We would have NEVER, EVER signed that dotted line on the Amway application. had we seen and know what we know now! We were deceived and believed many things…including..”WE owned our own business.”

    I do have an important question for anyone who would help answer, perhaps an attorney.

    If the Team Profit-sharing monies was derived and collected strictly from “internal independent distributors..people who joined TEAM”..then would this be consider a “illegal pyramid scheme?”

  13. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 13, 2012 7:05 pm


    Excellent Post! Thanks for answering my question, haha!

  14. No Team For Me permalink
    December 13, 2012 7:11 pm

    KC – They claimed $50 million for the LIFE business, but I believe the TEAM business is totally separate and I believe should be several times the volume of LIFE. I think where they could be in trouble is that the TEAM volume is only split by a very small percentage of leaders and the minnions in LIFE are indirectly bound to purchase the TEAM tools which teach how to build the LIFE business.

    This really does need to be investigated. I know Rich DeVos of Amway said for years that when the tool income approaches the actual product income, there could be some serious legal consequences. In this case, I beleive the tool income is several times higher than the product income.

  15. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 4:22 am

    @No Team: You said: “I believe the TEAM business is totally separate…” How so? They have NO other consumable/renewable typical home/grocery, etc., product left to hawk like they had in prior iterations of the business. The entire “business” is now just team tools (and meetings) encompassing the 8 F’s over and over for downline and other “end consumer” consumption (see next paragraph, e.g., the online customers).

    They are actually claiming that you can be in an active downline, be dormant just for your own personal growth experience and still make money–and because of this, they can claim these persons, too, are “end consumers” (end consumerism and the flow of money and the concept of value is, I believe, a big part of determining whether or not one is harboring an illegal pyramid scheme—-examination of LIFE/Team caused some to say that this particular biz was a hidden double pyramid scheme but sits on the side of being legal because of how it was devised and worded in contracts).

    One can go online and take the mental fitness test for a bizarre amount of money and do subscriptions online, etc., and not attend meetings or show plans…..but in the end, it’s all one and the same “product.” And OW and CB get double mileage off of all of this by being printers for selves and others and then encouraging downlines to read those products as well, e.g., O.DeMille’s book, ‘1913’, etc.

    So: my question is: HOW in the world would they now separate out Team members from LIFE members? Even on fB and Twitter, they list this business as: LIFE/Team. Know what I mean?

    @KC: when it comes to LIFE/Team, it would seem that via the new contract you sign where one is now claimed to be an independent contractor instead of a distributor, and the fact that one can do this book/CD/meeting scheme just for their own enrichment as an end consumer, that this would be what was suggested to do in order to stay “legal” in most states. Ergo: no more direct line distributorships connected to product. An independent contractor is just that: independent, shouldering his/her own business. There are other things they have done, too, toward legal legitimacy, e.g., 30-day money-back guarantees, etc. From what I have been reading, a big part of our outsider complaints has to be pitted against the concept of VALUE that the consumers feel they receive.

  16. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 4:36 am

    @KC: I just thought of something else, too….you can go online with “TEAM” at their “sales” website and order anything you want……such as calendars, easels, and other durable meeting “tools”, etc.

    So, this gives them more end consumers of their product, but again, one has to ask: if LIFE members as independent contractors who are in the downlines with some of whom are in it only for themselves, and active so-called “Team” members showing plans, supposedly exist separately, well how would they show it? Is this why you are now considered to be in LIFE/Team, i.e., because it’s hard to separate? Everyone is purchasing the same product; it’s been set up so all look like end consumers or independent contractors who’ve signed contracts………is this, perhaps, why some examining this business thought that there was actually a hidden double-pyramid scheme inside of it?

    Does anyone know if they do, indeed have a completely separate TEAM side of anything affiliated with LIFE, or as they write it LIFE/Team? Is being in LIFE the same as being in LIFE/Team? Can you be in Team without being in LIFE (as far as the new business is concerned—am not talking about hose hanging in with Monavie, etc.)?

  17. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 4:55 am

    Wait a minute–don’t know if I’ve been clear in prior two posts, but this has been bothering me since my loved one first got involved: okay, we all know that from way back, Dex Yager etal had developed a lucrative “Team side” to selling Amway “leadership development” to distributors–Amway got accused in court in 1983 of this very thing happening, i.e., making more money off of the team tools than legal. In the next iterations of former Amway children, OW & CB etal, this methodology kept up….but it seems to me that things suddenly changed with the development of LIFE biz because of prior problems encountered from the Quixtar days when it came to the Team side of the biz and complaints lobbed back and forth, lawsuits, etc.

    And after reiterating it into riding the Monavie wave, it seems to me they finally figured out that they needed to get rid of distributorships and typical consumer products—that their main fortunes rested with the long-standing, more lucrative “leadership tools” that invade every aspect of life, just as the tools and methods had always done since mastermind Dex Yager.

    Now, with LIFE, instead of a hidden “double pyramid”, to me it seems as if they’ve almost created the storybook tigers chasing each other’s tails around the tree, all turning into the pool of butter, or the old phonograph needle hitting the end of the record over and over: because the “Team Tools” of yesteryear have now been mainstreamed into the amorphous “leadership product”….the tools have become the actual product.

    HOW are they keeping people separated out, i.e., those in LIFE vs those in Team in the LIFE/Team business?

    I’d say it’d be easy to do for end-consumers just doing subscriptions online and not physically participating, but I just don’t “get” how they could separate out active downliners who are hawking explicit Team products but wouldn’t be members of Team? (I don’t think what’s happening in LIFE/Team can be equated with how it was like in being a Team member in Monavie or Quixtar as distributors???)

  18. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 6:34 am

    But Raquel: HOW do they decide who’s in Team and who’s in LIFE (except for online buyers who otherwise don’t participate)? I know about the team back office, but what would be different in the LIFE back office if, say and for example: one whole leg of downliners are all buying the same “leadership products” and attending meetings, etc.? (I don’t think this is the same as Monavie with a distributor product, is it? I mean, the whole LIFE organization is now about the same tools that used to be reserved for the hidden side of development, right?) Why do they refer to themselves as LIFE/Team if it’s two separate entities? (Note: I get the difference when you talk about what you were in….but how can they run the same administrative set-up now in LIFE/Team?)

  19. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 6:43 am

    Oh, hey, Raquel: it would seem to me that once you buy a subscription to LIFE “leadership products”, then you’re auto-enrolled in Team as a sub-contractor/end consumer? OR: once you show the plan and bring in 3 new members you’re auto-enrolled? I mean, we know people who are in this, so why isn’t this public info? It’s not really clear in the contract, either, except they somehow still “own” you, i.e., can make decisions about everything you do, even if you’re labeled a sub-contractor, which almost seems like an oxymoron.

  20. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 8:23 am

    Raquel: there are no distributorships in LIFE/Team……only independent contractors and “end consumers”. Also: this doesn’t seem like it follows the pay booklet which includes not only bringing new people in but PV or personal volume levels on what those you bring in buy and who they also bring in, doesn’t it? Not saying I’m right; just saying that’s what it looks like. THIS is why it’s so confusing to me as to HOW they could possibly secretly, at least with the LIFE/Team business, set it up secretly enough to mirror how other iterations of the biz, like Monavie with a Team side, or for that matter, the old Amway with the team sides are set up. I’d like to see what Mike Collins has to say regarding this when he looks at their 10-page payment scheme booklet.

  21. freedomhaha permalink
    December 14, 2012 8:45 am

    Always having a secret seems like a sustainable business model 🙂

  22. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 14, 2012 1:44 pm

    It is all semantics To obscure their dismal numbers most MLMs classify (and reclassify) their distributors as “active” and “inactive.” The Active group usually only includes a percentage of recent participants and those still buying products or receiving rebates. Payout and retention statistics are then disclosed only on the “active” group. This helps the model appear more legitimate than it actually is.

    Monavie’s stringent reclassification really helped their numbers look better than they actually were, and even the “better” numbers were horrific.

    Their definition of a distributor allowed them to obfuscate the realities that existed in their plan. In their own words……, “Approximately 87% of individuals who executed a MonaVie Distributor Application and Agreement, and made at least one purchase in the last 12 months, are considered wholesale customers.”

    Aaaah….so there you have it 87% of those in Monavie were actually har..har..har..pfffttt…CUSTOMERS???

    When a plan is written with a 1 in 31 break-even ratio from the network that would indicate a best-case scenario of around 3.2%. The Lief plan is very similar.

  23. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 14, 2012 3:10 pm

    They keep it complex and ‘con’voluted on purpose. I understand it the way Raquel does.

    “LIFE” – Is their “PRODUCT”… ( 8/F’s cd’s & books “live the life you always wanted”..MFC..what they call their “product” or “Leadership Development” or “Self-Help” “self-directed education” and where they store their “customers”.(information). names list or line of those “contractors.”

    “Team” is Where the Lions share of the profit-sharers money goes ( comes from those “customers” buying.. and funnels into the good ole’ “voted in” boys club. Team is a ‘separate’ pay out…and I believe it would be more like Amway is to Quixtar..”sister companies” under the Umbrella of “Alticor”,

    We all know their “product” Is the same in both the TEAM & LIEF, (i.e. cd’s & books seminars, etc.) but the TEAM cd’s, books, are the “business building” ‘product’ or the “How to” or the “art & science” (manipulation) and it too would have the “builders” line of independent contractors” same list…identified differently and paid accordingly.

    LIEF is to TEAM as “Monavie” is to “Team”…. 2 Separate Business one they call the “product” and the other the “training.” But paid from 2 different companies with 2 separate 1099’s.

    These guys have changed nothing except the way they ‘label’ and separate the two,…by how they ‘identify’ you (customer or builder).. by what “subscription” you purchase and what pot they pay you from.

    The cd’s, books, seminars etc. have ALWAYS been the “TEAM” ‘products’ and have always been “categorized” seperately with different ‘options’ of cd’s to buy..such as PPS or Power Player Series (for builders), LLR or Leadership cd’s (for builders), the ERM cd’s or “FAITH”, Team Cd’s (story) they used to be called “beginner” packages, leadership pkg. etc.. meaning you would just get 2 (Team cd’s on the minimum or begginer) and then you could add more cds & books by putting yourself into the Leadership Cds, ERM, (faith).. etc…they would be separate “series.” just like they have with separate “subscriptions”.

    Depending on how “all in” you were or if you wanted to be a “real” leader/builder you would buy all the cd’s and books in each category or all the “subscriptions” as they call them today.

    The “separate subscriptions” (same difference) only now “the subscriptions” are either under either the “TEAM” builder Umbrella or the LIEF customer umbrella.

    I believe they have the same Line of Sponsorship For Both or list of names in your team group of people and depending on which “subscription(s) you purchase is their way to distinguishing the 2 and what they label’ you as..

    When and if you are ‘consider’ for the TEAM PAY ( voted in or meet certain building & other criteria…. on all subscriptions and probably power-player, mentoring. proving your undying and unquestioning loyalty, edifying,,etc) then you will be allowed or “voted in”.. to be paid from the Big Pot.of $$..or “TEAM” profit-sharing” pot.

    Otherwise, you will remain as a “customer” in LIEF and get whatever that allows, like get “incentive” trips and participate in getting your pittance possibly from that separate or some how they identify that “pay out pot”..or your 3 for free “incentive” subscription..Depending on how many you bring in to this will determine your “incentives” and pay back from that revenue pot.

    They essentially have only “separated” the 2 Business’s by “how and who gets paid” and “separated the “CATEGORY” of information you buy… the (cd’s & books etc..They have to have “customers” to be legit so IMO they have just found a way to separate them.

    .LIEF- IS for ‘everyone’ that they can call “customers” and they buy the LIEF “material”.that they hope will become a “builder” (they know the percentage of those who will build and those who wont). They know the attrition rates so the majority will just be called.. “customers”.

    Even though I believe the “lines of sponsorship are the exact same in LIEF and TEAM they are identified separately and don’t know the logistics but from experience and how they did the, back office “tracking”… can see who is on what “subscriptions”…LIEF or TEAM or Both and other tracking information.

    This is my understanding and opinion and from experience know these guys have broken the rules repeatedly and just made sure they CTA.

  24. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 14, 2012 3:17 pm

    Thanks TruthSeeker! 🙂

  25. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 14, 2012 3:57 pm

    Melanie: okay….gotcha! So really, it’s all just an internal, unregulated favoritism game when it comes to doling out the so-called “team” side of the money as “profit sharing”? Otherwise it’s the same horse, just a different color? No one out there is watching?…in other words, this side of the biz could just be a big ponzi scheme, filtering money up to the authors and a few henchmen of the scheme? There are no regulatory agencies? Well, heck, then why prosecute the Bernie Madoff’s of the world? I mean, this is ludicrous nonsense without regulation! It’s like: “gimme all your money and time, and if I run you into the ground enough, I might give you some residual if I feel like it”? You mean as a business, they don’t have to declare or file anything regarding their “sub-contractors” or profit sharing plans?

  26. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 14, 2012 4:39 pm

    Of course they do Raquel, you are 100% correct! Any MLM I have ever seen promotes the so called “opportunity”. After all, as we have all witnessed, once the chance of earning is gone, how many really stick around to purchase the $40 bottle of juice, the $30 laundry soap, or the $50 cd pack. Seriously now….cut the bullshit, Lief is the same game different product, still mediocre quality, and still seriously overpriced.

  27. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 14, 2012 5:52 pm


    Haha! I love your choice of words. 🙂


    I also believe they DON’T disclose the “Pay Out”…from the TEAM ‘side’ to those “customers” and TruthSeeker did a great job of sharing what Monavie’s definition of a “customer” is but I believe this is how probably all MLM’s define it or something similar, again we all know it is to CTA and would love to see any MLM that has the legitimate and required 70% (I believe are supposed to have) bona-fide customers.

  28. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 14, 2012 5:58 pm

    Clarify….I know there are “direct sales companies” that are upfront first with the “product” and are “selling” to customers, ….but I think anyone on this site would know that is NOT who I am referring too and I am talking about the MLM’s who promote the “business opportunity” and are drive their business based on “recruiting”!

  29. Melanie Morgan permalink
    December 14, 2012 6:02 pm

    This quote, from my perspective, experience and hindsight, sums it up:

    New International Version (NIV)

    ” For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”~1 Timothy 6:10

  30. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 14, 2012 7:08 pm

    It looks like you can enroll as either a “member” or as a “customer”. Depending which you choose to become determines if you enroll in both LIFE/TEAM or just LIFE. Here is an example of your very own TEAM/LIFE website (like they used to have for Monavie).

    As a side note, I tried to get a bottle of Monavie from an old teammate, and they wouldn’t tell me they couldn’t get me one, but it was over three weeks of them getting a bottle before I just told them that it wasn’t that important for me to get my hands on a bottle. They just kept coming up with different excuses as to why there was a delay.

    Apparently, they are also “advertising” LIFE as a Facebook except your have “real” friends and you have “real” relationships. Also, just so you know, unlike Facebook, where one person gets all the money, you get money just for using LIFE.

    My questions – how many of you PAY to use Facebook? How many of you found “real” friends and lasting relationships in LIFE?

  31. Critical thinker permalink
    December 15, 2012 5:34 am

    Hey Guys! If orrin approves, I’m all in.

  32. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 15, 2012 9:12 am

    1Million- I know that they used the Facebook example over and over again during my time in, but this seems a little different. Are you saying that the LIFE site is turning into a social network of sorts?

  33. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 15, 2012 10:17 am

    Freedom: (this is in response to a word you mentioned, not your direct question): funny thing is: on one of their blogs, I read millionS, not just shooting for a million anymore…..this just gets more and more grandiose….in that one blog I read, they actually talked about what had been written about in prior blogs….about affecting western civilization (in general).

  34. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 15, 2012 10:18 am

    Freedom: Bwahahahahahha! Sorry: your mention of the word million was to another poster on here…….oh, well, my comment still stands, but “I get it” at the booboo I made….

  35. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 15, 2012 10:24 am

    Ageofwisdom- Your comment still totally applies! And yes, it was said many times from stage that the “real goal” of the LIFE was to take back western civilization. Yipes!

  36. December 15, 2012 11:10 am

    The real goal of these connoisseurs of MLM con is just like an impolite horse that comes to a fence and let’s you go over first, i.e. pad their pockets with their adherents’ cash but never a care what happens to their victims.

  37. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    December 15, 2012 3:11 pm

    Freedom – No, not saying the site is to be like Facebook. They referred to LIFE as a real-life physical/in person version of Facebook rather than a virtual social network. I just put the link there so whoever wanted could take a look at the member versus customer sign-up stuff. I ran across someone’s site (not the one I picked), when I reading something elsewhere.

    If you notice, the number in the URL appears to be their “TEAM” number and the number displayed on the website seems to be their “LIFE” number. And if anyone is interested they seem to be sequentially assigned – meaning we could theoretically track how many new people they are signing up.

    Also, if you look at what they have to offer in each of their on-line stores, you will see that anything related to “how to get people into the business” are still under TEAM. The LLR and AGO series are what is in LIFE (and about one CD for Monavie). The only books that you will find under every single category on the LIFE site are those by Orrin, Chris, and Tim. Not surprising, but you would think people would notice they are peddling books for them. I am really curious as to how they will sustain this – how can they sustain it. Everyone knows you need to have a consumable product to sell. Books and CDs are not consumable – once you buy it you have it. It doesn’t go away. AND no one can tell me that the dust the books collect destroy the book to the point that you need to order another one.

  38. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 15, 2012 3:57 pm

    @1million: I’d been squeekin’ about the same thing for months, too……I mean, one time recently on ebay, more than one seller was trying to foist off an entire “attic collection” of these CDs and books for about 20-50 bucks. So, I’ve been asking for awhile: where’s saturation? If one would actually GET 1 million people to join and be active without stopping for at least a year… many millions more would have tried it and quit? I’ll bet at least 6 or 7 million, (to be conservative in estimate; other numbers I’ve gotten would likely raise it to 8-9 mil trying it). I know we talked last summer, too, about the actual breathing, of-age bodies eligible out of 320 million people who’d even try it and stay for awhile. (I noticed a few posts about their foreign contacts/members, too—perhaps they realize they’ve gotta spread—um, maybe like the plague–in order to not reach saturation and have it die out at home)/

  39. December 15, 2012 5:00 pm

    Books and CD’s aren’t consumables, but TEAM/LIFE is certainly trying to make them so. There’s no denying that, over the entire history of the compnies, many of their products have been “refreshed” and sold again to members who had previous versions of the same products. I once wrote a post about pack of empty CD cases/covers that they were trying to sell.

    I guess you can judge a book or CD by its cover in TEAM/LIFE!

    For those who had questions on how to get a slice of the TEAM pay, here’s a post written during the TEAM/MonaVie days. Things may be similar today with TEAM/LIFE:

  40. December 15, 2012 5:07 pm

    @freedomhaha – that would be funny if LIFE were to become a social network. Imagine only being able to message people who either sponsored you or were in your upline/downline organization — no crossline communication!

    No, I think they are poo-pooing Facebook because it’s popular. They did the same thing with television in the 80s and 90s and the same thing with the Internet in the 90s and 2000s. Certainly taken to excess, these things can be bad, but they are not the grand evil that they often have proclaimed it to be from stage.

  41. December 15, 2012 7:29 pm

    Every MLM affiliated systems do have similar craps. All new joinees are expected to go through their start up kit and ‘learn’ these non sense and end up losing their other life skills and talents. If you listen to 1000 CDs or 2 CDs it is not going to add any value…

  42. Soon2BOut permalink
    December 15, 2012 8:59 pm

    The MFC is a scam. So you take this test right? Ask you a bunch of dumb questions about your life–kind of like an online dating profile. Of course you will want to answer each question to make it look like you’re great. So, I wonder, if part of STP with the MFC is have them do the test to see what areas they need to work on, how can they possibly expect people to buy into this crap? It will show that no one needs to work on their lives, and if they do, it’s only by a few points.

  43. Freedomhaha permalink
    December 15, 2012 10:28 pm

    Most humans cannot keep up with the amount of reading that is advocated by TEAM. That is if they are out there “running the roads” and showing the plan 15-20 times a month. I hope the backlog of books that people will inevitably pile up will push them closer to quitting. Don’t get my wrong I love reading. However, the key is reading without critical thinking is worse than not reading at all. I remember when I was in the cult everything I read TEAM approved or not pointed to how TEAM was the only way to go. I plan on rereading a couple of TEAM books (NOT any by the PC though, ever) now that I have all my faculties restored. Books like “How to Win Friends” and “Magic of Thinking Big” are classics, and I am not going to let the fact that sinful cult leaders distort them ruin these books for me.

  44. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 16, 2012 12:22 am

    Unbelievable Amthrax! Empty CD cases……you have got to be kidding me? That is one of the most tawdry and tasteless things I have ever seen, quite hilarious.

    It is quite interesting how often their words of hope and message of salvation is in direct conflict with their model. I too have heard the whole “taking back western civilization” rhetoric before. The model they employee destroys instead of builds, hurts instead of helps, and enslaves instead of frees, how horrible it must be to have sight but not be able to see.

    orrin and company, you are deceivers, and although your deception may continue for a season, it will soon be known by many. “Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.”

    Great posts here, lots of truth, keep it up!

  45. TruthSeeker permalink
    December 16, 2012 12:34 am

    orrin and company, I recommend you follow your own advice and read a book titled “The Power of Truth” by William Jordan. I am reading it and this quote reminded me so much of you all, thought I would post it just for you.

    “Men who split hairs with their conscience, who mislead others by deft, shrewd phrasing
    which may be true in letter yet lying in spirit and designedly uttered to produce a false
    impression, are untruthful in the most cowardly way. Such men would cheat even in
    solitaire. Like murderers they forgive themselves their crime in congratulating
    themselves on the cleverness of their alibi.”

  46. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    December 16, 2012 4:21 am

    Amthrax: You are so right… I absolutely guarantee you this: my grown child was TOLD to NOT look on the internet too much; to NOT listen to naysayers, to not listen to anyone else who would question LIFE/Team. That came right out of the mouth of one of the latest “inductee victims”–so, within just a few “meetings”, the person knew enough to spew this kind of foolishness at the faces of an older/wiser generation who had reservations about get rich quick MLM schemes (especially since we’d experienced 3 other types with this grown child already).

    When the grown child found out I had looked up this so-called business, immediately I got chastised for believing anyone else and then accused of: “all you do is look stuff up all the time to cause trouble.” (It suddenly went from one event to me supposedly doing it about everything in life—and THAT’s where I started to get angry.) I’d never seen anyone get so duped, so very fast, and I admit: that this could happen to my own child seemed impossible to me.

  47. Joecool permalink
    December 19, 2012 9:55 am

    The Top 1000 MLM earners. Strange, Orrin Woodward’s name is not there.

  48. freedomhaha permalink
    December 19, 2012 10:25 am

    That is because LIFE isn’t an MLM 😉

  49. Mike Collins permalink
    December 19, 2012 12:06 pm

    Joe cool: you can put absolutely ZERO faith in those lists. They are not only inaccurate they are full of outright lies. See also: Ted nuytens top earner list at businessforhome. Org

    There are a multitude of people on that list who are not only making NOWHERE near what is claimed but they aren’t even with the company listed by their names and haven’t been for a while. I know a bunch of them personally and most of those I know LIE thought their teeth about how much they are making.
    For example: Andre and penny Walton are listed TWICE on that list at #744 & #711 @$39,000 a month. They are not making anywhere near this much. As a matter of fact, word is they were getting paid as bronze executives but are now receiving a “salary” in the $2,000 a week range.

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