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TeamScam on Orrin’s Status as a Guru, Bestsellers Lists, and Social Media Rankings

January 24, 2013

LazyMan on his TeamScam website has posted his thoughts on Orrin Woodward, Chris Brady, and Scott Allen’s spinning of the Leadership Gurus voting brouhaha.

Check it out here: http://www.teamscam.com/orrin-woodward-scott-allen-and-the-leadership-gurus-scam/

LazyMan provides an quick analysis of the “bestselling” nature of the Launching a Leadership Revolution (LLR) book by Orrin Woodward and Chris Brady. His conclusion is that the book made these lists based on the efforts of a successful pre-order campaign by TEAM members at the time. There’s certainly proof that people were heavily encouraged to purchase multiple copies of the book. Here are two scans of an Advanced Order Contest that was held shortly before LLR was made publicly available:

Launching Leadership Revolution Advance Order Contest 001

Launching Leadership Revolution Order Contest Back Side pg 2 001

Note the following section in the Advanced Order Contest form:

Let’s help Chris and Orrin’s book reach the top of the New York Times best seller list! Advanced orders have a tremendous impact on the success of a new book launch. In order to help Launch a Leadership Revolution become a best seller this fall, the Team will take and process advanced orders for Launching a Leadership Revolution. From now until September 30, 2007, we will be recognizing Round Table organizations with the most weekly sales. An overall winer will be recognized at the October Fall Leadership Convention.

How many copies of LLR did TEAM members ultimately end up buying, either through this contest, at Major Conventions, or through the book of the month subscription? Judging from comments that I’ve read, some ex-TEAM members have had up to half a dozen copies of LLR at one point. I wonder how many copies of LLR are in the hands of legitimate customers outside of TEAM.

LazyMan is right when he argued that Orrin Woodward has no (real) influence outside of TEAM/LIFE:

He also points to the fact that LIFE events have 10,000+ people at them. Again this points to leadership within the pyramid scheme and no influence outside it. The reason why LIFE has 10,000 people at these events is because Woodward has used these lists to position himself as an expert. It’s a circle. Allen does mention that their membership is highly motivated and organized, which further goes to show how they can game the best selling lists.

Source: http://www.teamscam.com/orrin-woodward-scott-allen-and-the-leadership-gurus-scam/

I do not doubt Orrin’s influence within TEAM. Inside of TEAM, he’s a leadership guru (false), an IAB (scam) Top Leader, and a New York Times Best Seller (gamed). Orrin and company might fool a few outsiders who don’t do their homework; those that do, on the other hand, will realize it’s just smoke and mirrors.

Orrin himself wrote that Network Marketing/MLM isn’t the ticket for everyone. Great! In that case, he should be thankful for this website and his critics; after all, we’re helping those in TEAM/LIFE come to that exact same realization.

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32 Comments leave one →
  1. January 24, 2013 8:33 am

    Orrin Woodward is defined in one word: false.

    My opinion. Probably right.

  2. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 24, 2013 1:07 pm

    Amthrax~

    I heard Orrin Woodward say himself there were 100,000 copies sold and of course he said he was very humbled by this because so many ‘rose to the occasion’. 1000’s sold (cases upon cases; 3 I believe from us personally) and the rest through our team alone!

    And then followed up from the promotion… it got crammed down on BOM; at least once and God only knows how many times since. Then orders after, I remember that they had designated to; I believe 2 or 3 specific locations like Barnes & Noble (example) etc. I will look to see if I can find this and the specific locations that everyone was suppose to order from.

    Everyone on the Team @ that time KNEW that is exactly how Orrin & Chris were scheming to hit the #1 list, so he could ride out the rest of their lives plastering this everywhere defrauding others to what would ‘appear’ as they earned it organically from outside the organization.

    No shocker this is how most earn their status and is the M.O. of what they have done in Amway for decades. Doesn’t make it right. The $$$ and best seller status must be more important than earning it like other authors. The whole going PC and becoming a “best-selling author” (orrin wrote about this on a blog)…. is rigged. He knows he can force it down an do “promotions”

    I also see him claiming Tim Marks books as a “best-seller” I have NOT found this, has anyone else and if not more misleading and deception. As anyone else seen this?

    How naive and bamboozled we were to believe a lot of the authors books that came down on Bom were from MLM’ers or made it first there and then lots of $$$$ and rankings off the sale to the MLM’ers from those books. I don’t know how they can brag about it, anyone knows this isn’t earned per say! They get their books promoted by undue influence to a captive audience who are non-questioning and just buy what is highly peer-pressured to buy promote and then listen to that “author/speaking” to put them “in the compulsive buying mode’. This IS strategic!!!

    The PC sets up the “promotions” of books, cds etc…what they want sold the most of and tell the hosts and speakers WHAT TO PROMOTE! These “authors” are ALL paid big bucks to speak and “promote” their own books!

    After I got out I have lost all respect for them all and many authors that I thought were witting for the general public and later found out they were connected to the MLM industry! Won’t be buying any more books written by them ever nor will I promote them to anyone.

    If I ever do tell someone about a book and it is written by an MLMer or making their money from that industry, it is just because I didn’t find it out, yet!.

    These authors obviously aimed their books towards the MLM industry to lock in the doctrine, with so much of the nauseating rhetoric…then the duped would think the book was written somehow for the real world and would be in awe that it fit perfectly to what “building the team” does; exactly!.Don’t even THINK..

    There is no mystery why the PC pick certain ‘outside’ speakers and the BOM and no one else does!

    I have seen only once EVER, that John promoted a book and it is still in their system, that wasn’t “hand picked” by the PC….

    [Editor’s note: Corrected intent of comment. Please proof-read your comments twice before submitting them in the future to prevent confusion.]

  3. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 24, 2013 1:51 pm

    Question…How many books forced thru First Night, Second Night Packs, MFC…and what ever else they do as you…”need or must have to build the business” rather more unnecessary packs?

    Does the forced sales of these books “profit” ALL of it get put in to “profit-sharing” or does ALL the Royalties go directly to the author..the PC?. Is this disclosed….hahaha rhetorical question…

    The newbie poor suckers have no idea how much they will be pressured to buy, and buy, and buy…IF they are going to be a “leader”…they will be highly pressured at the seminars, majors “tool rooms” and then again at leaders “tool-trucks” because they “leaders” were told to have x-amount of these books on hand, and then just the “leader” will have to “handle their objections” when that newbie gets it on their order that they were suckered into getting on…”system”…or BOM!

    It is all to sad and extremely unethical for me, now that I the fog is gone along with the fakers undue influence in our lives! And they wonder why people don’t last a year…they go broke buying the same garbage for the Top to gain from!

  4. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 24, 2013 1:54 pm

    Thanks and sorry Amthrax…must do and get better. 🙂

  5. MemoryLame permalink
    January 24, 2013 9:00 pm

    I knew team people who worked at book stores that ordered it to inventory just so it would make their shelves. O&C had a team of promoters that were paying them to get their book out.

    All of us – duped.duped.duped.

    Anyway, this article is relevant and I thought you all might enjoy it.

    http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130117141235-20017018-stop-using-these-16-terms-to-describe-yourself?_mSplash=1

  6. Chris permalink
    January 25, 2013 2:26 am

    One of the red flags that went off for me! I recall when the mfc came out I already had the LLR book and 13 resolutions. That night at the major at the launch of the mfc they recommended that we get stocked up on the mfc and of course buy one for ourself. They didn’t mention the price or mention all of the cds contained in the package. I went to the toolroom and checked it out. Wow, no wander they didn’t mention the price and what it contained. They said just “trust us” Ha. It was two books I already had and later found out I had most of the cds that were in the mfc as well. I was also not impressed how the leaders were not prepared and not telling us in the beginning to what it was. The LLR might say it’s on the bestsellers list, but it’s because people on team have multiple copies and they use it as their basis of their business. Outside of team the book I doubt would have made it to any bestsellers list. Matter of fact it’s an absolute certainty it wouldn’t have. Well Im on my soapbox again, team….Remember don’t criticize they teach u, yet they criticize the government, the so called experts in society and the critics, well basically everything, but theirselves. Sometimes I would like to say, hey look why don’t u listen to your critics, they might have something to say! Don’t they talk about freedom, what about a right to an opinion? They say their a ” Christian” organization in my opinion they exalt Leaders and Orrin as idols above Christ and the Life books above the Bible. They sprinkle a little Jesus in their messages and that makes it a ” Christian” organization? To me it’s hypocritical to say your a Christian and the next moment to say the ” Life information is life changing and is truth. If your a Christian u believe that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life! I also saw Orrin preach on u tube, his preaching was actually sound? Which puzzled me? I wander if sometimes even Orrin has second thoughts about his business. I wander if he’s just caught up in his own scheme of riches and treasures? I actually pray for Orrin sometimes. I don’t know Orrin’s heart? I do have an opinion on the team business and for me It wasn’t a good deal. Im on this site because of two.main reasons. 1. I believe.people.should be informed of just not the positive,.but the negative parts of an organization. 2. I believe we should nt put our hope in one person or organization to look.for our goals and dreams, as a Christian I believe we should put our hope in Jesus!

  7. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 25, 2013 6:25 am

    Chris Memory Lame well said! I second all you say. I especially like your logic on the criticism. you should tell every team promoter that comes here those words since they cannot even see it.

    [Editor’s note: Corrected who Raquel was referring to]

  8. January 25, 2013 10:22 am

    @Chris

    “I wander if he’s just caught up in his own scheme of riches and treasures?”

    He is. Since he specializes in making TEAMmunists unwittingly off load their pockets’ Jaaay Ohhh Bheee, conventional bizz, etc resourced contents to his self and his cronies he sure got a thumpin’ gizzard for a heart, doesn’t he?

  9. MemoryLame permalink
    January 25, 2013 11:52 pm

    Chris, exactly! We will probably never know for sure, but I often wonder if Orrin has always been conscious that what he is doing is wrong, or at what point he began to sear his own conscience in regards to what he and certain people that follow him are doing.

  10. Chris permalink
    January 26, 2013 7:46 pm

    Leadershift….what’s people’s take on the new book coming out? I didn’t read it yet, but am curious to see what’s its purpose. Ive also heard some team members ordering it on amazon? Is it me, or is that a little strange? I mean the book will be available on team. How many copies do people intend on getting?

  11. TruthSeeker permalink
    January 26, 2013 8:53 pm

    Had an interesting chat earlier with one of your blog readers Amthrax. Thought I would post the topic of our discussion here. Great read.

    Sound familiar?

    “One of the more offensive duties of being an investigative journalist is taking out the trash — exposing liars, fraudsters, con artists and scammers for the people they truly are. Each time we investigate a sociopath, we find that they always have a little cult group following of spellbound worshippers who consider that particular sociopath to be a “guru” or “prophet.”
    Sociopaths are masters at influence and deception. Very little of what they say actually checks out in terms of facts or reality, but they’re extremely skillful at making the things they say sound believable, even if they’re just making them up out of thin air. Here, I’m going to present quotes and videos of some legendary sociopaths who convinced everyday people to participate in mass suicides. And then I’m going to demonstrate how and why similar sociopaths are operating right now… today.

    Why cover this subject? I’ve seen a lot of people get hoodwinked, scammed or even harmed by sociopaths, and it bewilders me that people are so easily sucked into their destructive influence. I want to share with Natural News readers the warning signs of sociopaths so that you can spot them, avoid them, and save yourself the trouble of being unduly influenced by them.

    Much of this information is derived from the fascinating book, The Sociopath Next Door, which says that 4% of the population are sociopaths. The book is a fascinating read.
    10 signs for spotting a sociopath

    #1) Sociopaths are charming. Sociopaths have high charisma and tend to attract a following just because people want to be around them. They have a “glow” about them that attracts people who typically seek guidance or direction. They often appear to be sexy or have a strong sexual attraction. Not all sexy people are sociopaths, obviously, but watch out for over-the-top sexual appetites and weird fetishes.

    #2) Sociopaths are more spontaneous and intense than other people. They tend to do bizarre, sometimes erratic things that most regular people wouldn’t do. They are unbound by normal social contracts. Their behavior often seems irrational or extremely risky.

    #3) Sociopaths are incapable of feeling shame, guilt or remorse. Their brains simply lack the circuitry to process such emotions. This allows them to betray people, threaten people or harm people without giving it a second thought. They pursue any action that serves their own self interest even if it seriously harms others. This is why you will find many very “successful” sociopaths in high levels of government, in any nation.

    #4) Sociopaths invent outrageous lies about their experiences. They wildly exaggerate things to the point of absurdity, but when they describe it to you in a storytelling format, for some reason it sounds believable at the time.

    #5) Sociopaths seek to dominate others and “win” at all costs. They hate to lose any argument or fight and will viciously defend their web of lies, even to the point of logical absurdity.

    #6) Sociopaths tend to be highly intelligent, but they use their brainpower to deceive others rather than empower them. Their high IQs often makes them dangerous. This is why many of the best-known serial killers who successfully evaded law enforcement were sociopaths.

    #7) Sociopaths are incapable of love and are entirely self-serving. They may feign love or compassion in order to get what they want, but they don’t actually FEEL love in the way that you or I do.

    #8) Sociopaths speak poetically. They are master wordsmiths, able to deliver a running “stream of consciousness” monologue that is both intriguing and hypnotic. They are expert storytellers and even poets. As a great example of this in action, watch this interview of Charles Manson on YouTube.

    #9) Sociopaths never apologize. They are never wrong. They never feel guilt. They can never apologize. Even if shown proof that they were wrong, they will refuse to apologize and instead go on the attack.

    #10) Sociopaths are delusional and literally believe that what they say becomes truth merely because they say it!

  12. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 27, 2013 4:06 am

    Chris- Their trying to make it a bestseller. just like we did years ago for the LLR book!

  13. Chris permalink
    January 27, 2013 6:32 pm

    Raquel – I think the point I was.trying to make is how much are people willing to sell out for team? Putting all your investment into multiple copies of a book just to.be on the bestsellers list is just what team states is against. Character over performance. I think in team it seems the opposite, performance over character.

  14. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 27, 2013 7:00 pm

    Chris I agree!

  15. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    January 27, 2013 7:30 pm

    With Orrin’s and Oliver Demille’s new book coming out (Leadershift), I thought I would try to find out more about Oliver. I was interested in the type of person who would partner with Orrin on such an adventure. And more importantly what kind of person Orrin would choose to associate with. In the end, I guess it shouldn’t surprise me, but Oliver doesn’t appear to have been on the up and up either. Although, according to Wikipedia is his a self-proclaimed idiot who have been duped in the past. 🙂

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_DeMille

  16. January 27, 2013 7:44 pm

    1MillionLifES – This is a good post I’ve come across regarding the background of Oliver Demille:

    http://themakingofauniversity.blogspot.com/2009/01/diploma-demille.html

  17. 1MillionLIfES permalink
    January 27, 2013 8:20 pm

    Very interesting. I’m thinking they are two peas in a pod.

    I also decided to take a look at the university that is being advertised as using the Mental Fitness Challenge as a college course. From what I can find, It is the Christian Leadership University, which is not accredited by the US Dept of Education. It just happens to be on-line, and you can get degrees ranging from Associates degrees to PhD’s. In my opinion, no one who takes more than 5 minutes to look into this college would consider it creditable.

    http://www.cluonline.com/

    Love how they say the course is for senior and/or graduate level, but anyone, normal student or not, can take the course. It’s only $320 plus the cost of the MFC material.

  18. ageofwisdom51 permalink
    January 28, 2013 3:08 am

    I exposed all of this about Demille months ago here on Amthrax when they were hawking his book ‘1913’.

  19. January 28, 2013 7:19 am

    I think Rick at cluonline may just be a Lifebot…

    http://www.cluonline.com/syllabi/LEA401%20Mental%20Fitness%20Challenge.pdf

    “CREDITS: 4
    COST of COURSE:
    • Tuition: $100
    • Materials (MFC): $220 plus tax and shipping (billed
    separately on your credit card)
    For more information on the course itself, the 3-for-free
    program or the potential for income generation, contact
    your Instructor at rick@cluonline.com

  20. freedomhaha permalink
    January 28, 2013 8:21 am

    If you are reading this I will save you the time of calling Rick about “income generation”. The potential for income generation is 1%.

  21. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 8:45 am

    SO their scamming their MLM as a course!!

    Why can’t they EVER just tell the truth!!??

    They are an MLM and they SELL cds, books and seminar tickets and they want you to sell books, cds and seminar tickets!! They are NOT life coaches or anything else!
    Liars!!

  22. January 28, 2013 9:20 am

    I remember about 4 months or so before Life my upline started telling people in plans about how colleges were starting to look at Life and put it in to their curriculums. At the time it didn’t make sense because I was thinking, “How do they even know about it if Life hasn’t even rolled out yet?” Being content with my cognitive dissonance, I let it go.

    Now it all makes sense.

  23. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 9:50 am

    I can hear Orrin to Demille I’ll sell your book to my twenty thousand over and over and you sell mine in your university……….then I’ll have more to point to for my “credibility” to my trapped buyers….. ughh..

  24. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 9:52 am

    was anyone here hear Orrin say we took away their Team oncome wi th thw Directors contract, now were going to take away theor mv income?

  25. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 9:58 am

    Did anyone hear Orrin say something to the effect of “we took away their (leaders considered to be unloyal) Team income with the Directors contract, now were going to take away their mv income with Life” ? I was told it was on a conference call or something when Life was coming out. Also can anyone confirm that distributors were told to stop buying Mv and buy Life materials?

  26. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 10:20 am

    Amthrax did you click on Mattjers link for the mental fitness challenge. Is this what they were using on Tues night house meetings? or is this for the class at uhmm…university of demille’s?

  27. January 28, 2013 11:12 am

    I don’t know if that MFC course syllabus was what was used on the Tuesday MFC Challenge Nights (before they reverted back to the weekly meetings). Someone who was recently in TEAM can answer that question.

  28. No Team For Me permalink
    January 28, 2013 12:57 pm

    Does anyone know if it’s illegal to do what that Rick at CLU is doing – to personally profit by selling materials used at a college which students are forced to purchase. and then for the professor to recommend other additional CD’s for which the professor earns a profit? shouldn’t that be a major conflict of interest?

  29. Raquel Peters permalink
    January 28, 2013 1:58 pm

    in a real college that’d be unethical….

  30. Melanie Morgan permalink
    January 28, 2013 2:18 pm

    wisdom~

    I remember that, maybe you could put the link to that thread and allow those people who have missed it read it or maybe copy your findings in this thread.

    This site is chuck full of information and if people miss it, it is hardly possible to find where it would be. New people are coming here and wouldn’t know that either. Thanks.

  31. January 28, 2013 8:34 pm

    @wisdom

    Yes I remember you sharing on that ignoramus. I read a heap on that shyster. Quite a colorfully shady character and his fake “university”, yeah right.

Trackbacks

  1. Orrin Woodward and Oliver DeMille Want to Game the Best Seller Lists Again by Volume Loading “LeaderShift” « AMTHRAX

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